We have an online feature highlighting CEO’s You Should know. I want to share this interview with our broadcast and streaming audience because Corrine O’Connell – CEO of Habitat for Humanity Philadephia blew me away with the work her organization is doing to fulfill a vision where “everyone has a decent place to live.”
https://www.habitatphiladelphia.org/
First – let’s get an Eagles history lesson about a player who broke barriers and is also responsible for one of the reasons Philly fans hate the Dallas Cowboys. I speak to two of the authors of Running Against The Grain The Story of Philadelphia Eagle and Movie Star Timmy Brown. Written by Roy Weaver, David Sullivan and Shawn Sriver.
https://www.habitatphiladelphia.org/
First – let’s get an Eagles history lesson about a player who broke barriers and is also responsible for one of the reasons Philly fans hate the Dallas Cowboys. I speak to two of the authors of Running Against The Grain The Story of Philadelphia Eagle and Movie Star Timmy Brown. Written by Roy Weaver, David Sullivan and Shawn Sriver.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Good morning, and welcome to What'sgoing on? A show about making a
difference in our lives and our communities. I'm Lorraine Ballard Marle Hope you're having
a wonderful Thanksgiving holiday today. Letme tell you about an online feature that
we have highlighting CEOs. You shouldknow. I really wanted to share this
interview with our broadcast and streaming audiencebecause corinne O'Connell's CEO of Habitat for Humanity
(00:22):
Philadelphia, blew me away with thework her organization is doing to fulfill a
vision where everyone has a decent placeto live. First, let's get into
a little Eagles history lesson about aplayer who broke barriers and is also responsible
for one of the reasons Philly fanshate the Dallas Cowboys. Timmy Brown was
a former Philadelphia Eagles legend known forhis electrifying performances on the football field.
(00:49):
He was a versatile player who excelledas a running back and returned specialist during
his time with the Eagles from nineteensixty to nineteen sixty seven. He had
a less legacy in the hearts ofEagles fans. He also had a colorful
career outside of the stadium. Totell us more are the authors of Running
Against the Grain, the story ofPhiladelphia Eagle and movie star Timmy Brown,
(01:11):
written by David Sullivan, Sean Scharver, and Roy Weaver. We have David
and Roy with us right now,so let's talk about Timmy Brown. Roy
and David tell us what is yourrelationship with the story of Timmy Brown.
Start with you, Roy. InFebruary two thousand and eight, I was
(01:32):
dean of the Teachers College at BallState University in Munsey, Indiana, and
I hosted alumni gathering in Palm Springs, California, and Timmy was among the
alumni who showed up, and Iobserved him with the crowd. He didn't
put on airs and or like looklike a star, act like a star.
(01:52):
He came across just a common person, genuine person, but it was
clearly had a fascinating life. Andas time went on, I saw the
crowd around him and he told thesefascinating stories. And so after the event
I cornered him and I said,Tim has anyone approached you about writing a
story about your life? And hesaid, no one had, And so
that's how it began. I seeand what about you, David, What
(02:14):
was your connection with the story ofTimmy Brown. My connection is that I
met Roy at a journalism school eventin Ball State, which is my school
as well, back in about tentwelve years ago, and I knew nothing
about Timmy Brown. Then. Iwas not a big sports fan, and
Roy and his wife Marilyn reached outto me. I was working for the
(02:38):
Philadelphia Enquirer at that point as anassistant managing editor and asked if I'd like
to become involved in the book.Well, after I retired from the paper
in twenty twenty, there was timeto work on the book full time,
and so I devoted my research toPhillies years, Timmy's years in Philadelphia.
(03:00):
So Timmy Brown had a challenging childhoodand upbringing, and I guess with all
challenging stories, that's all part ofthe origin story of Let's talk a little
bit about his background and how itmight have influenced who he was as not
only a player, but as anindividual. Roy, what did you learn
(03:20):
about Timmy based on some of hishistory? Sure, when he was in
elementary school, his parents divorced andhe had four sisters and a brother,
and he and his brother ended upand bounced around to a couple foster homes,
and in one of them he learnedseveral things. He ended up working
(03:45):
on a farm, and he learnedto deal with injustice and abuse, largely
from one of the farmers he workedwith and lived with, and while attending
school though, he would race fromthe bus from his home to the school
and often won, and he continuedto do that. It showed his interest
(04:05):
in running and became valuable in thatregard. At the Soldiers and Sailors Home,
he learned how to build structure intohis life, an organization easily got
along with his peers, and blackwell Well never sacrificeeing his integrity. Over
time, he faced a lot ofracism in his life too, and he
(04:25):
once said that it made him feeluncomfortable. People tried to make him think
he was different, but he saidsegregation was an irritable thing because I always
felt I was egal. I didn'tdwell on it, and I didn't really
feel any animos. See a couplequick examples. He was taken off the
basketball team for two games because heallegedly was messing with a white girl,
(04:49):
and he said he wasn't and thecoach said, well, just admit that
you were and you can play thenext two games. He refused to.
He stood his ground. He waswith the and the Packers at an exhibition
game against Washington in North Carolina.When he went there, he discovered that
he and the other black players couldn'tstay with the team. They had to
(05:12):
stay a North Carolina A and Tdormitory rooms. And he was incensed by
that. He was going to saysomething about it, but one of the
black players said, no, ifyou say anything about it, you're likely
to lose your position on the teamat that time, so he didn't.
But in the game he ran apass play for twenty two yards that set
(05:32):
up the winning touchdown against the Redskins. And as you know, the Redskins
were opposed to having black players onthe team at that time. Yeah,
let's talk David. Let's talk aboutwhat football was like in the sixties.
It's very different than it is today. And certainly, for many black players,
as Roy indicated, they experienced racism, they experienced segregation, and yet
(05:58):
clearly Timmy Brown was able to overcomethe barriers that existed for him and refused
to let that put him down orkeep him down. Right when he got
into pro football, which was ofcourse, after one game with the Green
Bay Packers and Vince Lombardi cut him, and then he came to Philadelphia the
(06:19):
next year. At that time,it was commonly understood that there was a
cap of three black players per team. Wow. Any more than any more
than that, you risked the yourisked your fan base being upset, You
risked the other owners being upset.And while Timmy was able to excel on
(06:42):
the field, as Roy said,he continually faced problems off the field.
He would go into bars where theteam was hanging out and some of the
players would say an essence, youdon't belong here. His whole initial interview
with Vince Lombardi was Vince saying,you don't look like a football player,
and Kenny said, well, I'mnot sure what you think a football player
(07:03):
looks like. Vince Lombardi says,so you're a smart guy, huh.
He was. However, of coursein the era when football did start to
open up, when those bars tothose caps on the number of players did
start to go away, and sohe was able to benefit from that.
Well, what you say about VinceLombardi puts a little bit of shade on
(07:27):
Vince Lambarti's legacy as one of thewinningest and greatest coaches of all time.
Clearly he was very much of aflawed individual to have said things like that
to Timmy Brown and probably other playersas well. Now, Timmy Brown was
a very renowned player for the Eagles, and I understand that his success as
(07:49):
a running back led to the PhiladelphiaEagles fans hatred of the Dallas Cowboys.
So let's talk origin story here.So you know that hatred is long and
deep. So tell us what happened, well and on. It was in
a game on November sixth, nineteensixty six, against the Cowboys at Franklin
Field. This is pre veteran stadium, and Timmy said a record He was
(08:15):
the first player in NFL history torun two kickoffs back for touchdowns in the
same game, which led to upsettwenty four to twenty three. And that
was when the Cowboys were coached byTom Landry. A lot of people who
remember the NFL at that time rememberTom Landry standing on the side with his
(08:35):
fedora and his long raincoat on.And before next time, the Dallas was
playing Philadelphia in nineteen sixty seven.It was a home game in Dallas.
Timmy said he was told by otherplayers that the Cowboys were about to get
even. So there was a passplay. Timmy wasn't the intended receiver,
He wasn't even close to the ball, and Leroy Johnson, player for Dallas,
(09:00):
an elbow into his jaw and bustedsix of his teeth. Wow.
Frank Olsen, the incquire sports columnistat the time, said, it happened
the way a bowling ball knocks downa row of pins. And that's been
a tested even in a thing inthe Inquirer within the last couple of years,
as that was the start of Philadelphia'sdislike of the Dallas Cowboys. Well,
(09:22):
it's nice to know the origin story. I always share in that dislike
of the Cowboys. But now Ihave even more reason to hate them.
Sokay, thank you for that.Now. Timmy Brown was more than just
a football player because he went onto actually perform in movies. Tell us
more about this other career that hehad. Roy He actually was in the
(09:46):
first six episodes of Mesh, theTV series. He was in the movie
Mesh. Probably his most prominent rolewas in Robert Altman's movie Nashville. And
after that though, he didn't reallyget back into movies. And it's an
(10:07):
interesting story because Robert Duvall and ElisGole tell the story of an incident where
Timmy beat Robert Altman in a gameof chess, and Timmy then realized that
he'd been blackballed from Mompment. Buthe couldn't believe he had been blackballed because
(10:28):
it was chess. But the twoof his colleagues said, you know,
you just should never beaten the boss. Oh, how unfair is that?
That's pretty terrible. Well, hedid have something of a career, and
many football players trying to make thattransition into Hollywood and into acting. But
(10:50):
that and Timmy Brown had a gloriousperiod in which he was able to be
in those movies. In that program, he also had a kind of a
spectacular love life. He was connectedwith a very well known singer, tell
Us More Jimmy Uh performed as asinger himself. He had put he put
(11:11):
out about five records, as youcan find out in our book, and
he performed at the Latin Casino,which long time Philadelphians will remember it was
in Philadelphia. Then we moved outto Rout seven and Cherry Hill, and
he was out there once with DianeDeon Warwick. He was dating Dion,
but it wasn't a romantic thing.It was more of a friendship thing,
(11:33):
and Diana Ross and the Supremes wererecording there. Diana Ross, to hear
Timmy tell it, Diana Ross movedin on him, and Dion was not
too happy about this. Apparently Dianawas very interested in him, and in
fact, there were times after gamesTimmy lived with a couple. This is
(11:54):
shows how football is different. Helived in the house with a couple over
in West philadelph and Diana Ross wouldoccasionally go over there after games and other
players would come over and Timmy wouldbe so beaten up from the game that
he would just want to go intohis little room in this couple's house,
and so Diana Ross would act asthe hostess for the other players because she
(12:18):
was Timmy's girlfriend. There is somebelief, however, that Diana really had
her eye elsewhere, that she wastrying she was wanting to get further and
integrated with the very Gordy and hopingto make him jealous. So oh,
(12:39):
I love it. You're pouring somemajor picture of tea here, so we
always appreciate the tea being poored.That's very interesting little backstory there. Now,
As with so many football players,especially in the earlier years of football,
they don't always end very well.And Timmy eventually fell out of,
(13:00):
you know, sort of the glamorouslife and became a probation officer and then
later on had to deal with dementia. And you have to wonder now whether
it's related to the concussions that wenow know are very prevalent among football players
that can lead to brain injuries laterin life. Tell us about the later
years of Timmy Brown. Yeah,in nineteen eighty six he began doing volunteer
(13:24):
work with the Los Angeles County ProbationOffice and he was mentoring students and schools
and youth centers, and his commitand impact were noticed and recognized in nineteen
seventies Happy Days Icon Henry Winkler asVolunteer of the Year by the department,
and his continuing service led him togain a position for another ten years.
(13:46):
For half of that time he workedwith youth and for the other half of
that time he worked with adults,and he worked on a weekly basis with
adults looking at drug trest counseling them, trying to make them stay on track.
One observer described him as a generousperson with his time, who loved
(14:07):
people, and people really loved him. He reflected later that he was simply
giving back to all the support andmentoring that he had received. On November
fourteenth of twenty thirteen, I actuallytook him to see a neurologist in Palm
Springs who eventually identified the symptoms ofParkinson's and dementia. And that happened just
(14:31):
a month after a book was releasedby a couple of uth CLA researchers,
and the book was called League ofDenial. The NFL concussions in the Battle
for Truth. On one occasion thathe was out walking, actually he'd walked
to a casino, was not toofar away and started walking back and lost
(14:52):
track of where he was, andhe called a friend who drove to pick
him up, and she found himthat he was just exhausted and flabbergasted and
didn't know where he was. Andthat was the beginning of his losing his
memory in a more significant way,and he became dependent on the use of
a cane, which infuriated him aswell, but the deterioration of his health
(15:16):
really took a significant toll. Hedied on April fourth, twenty twenty,
but he was surrounded with his familyduring that time. Also, one of
the things that continued to seem tokeep him happy was the playing of a
video called Love Overboard that he recordedwith Gladys Knight in the Pips. So
(15:39):
having known Roy, having known himfor so long, I mean, that
has to have been a very sadtime as a friend to see someone who
was so vital and so engaged sortof lose all of that towards the end.
And football being what it is,it hasn't taken very good care of
some the ogs of the football field, right right, It was very disappointing
(16:03):
to no longer being recognized. Orwe on a couple occasions were going to
go out someplace and we were goingto pick him up and I went to
pick him up and he wasn't therebecause he thought he was supposed to go
ahead. So there were a numberof incidents like that that gradually you just
knew. At one point. Forexample, we used to read parts of
(16:26):
the text together, drafts and hewould read a little bit. I'd read
a little bit, and I'd say, if you find something that you think
is wrong, let's change it.If you didn't think of something, tell
me about it. And we wereworking on the ball State chapter and I
was reading a little bit about itand he interrupted me and said, I
didn't go to Ball State. Iwent to Butler. He used to joke
(16:48):
with me a lot, so Ithought he was just joking with me,
and I said, oh, comeon, Tim, we don't have time
for this. And I could seein his eyes a very serious look at
me, and he said firmly,I went to Butler, I didn't go
to Ball State. And I sharethat with you because from that time on,
I could no longer count on him, so we could no longer do
what we'd always done. And soI'm sorry that there probably are a lot
(17:14):
of other stories that I could neverget because of that. But that's just
one really sad point in the time. Well, I think that what we
have now is a testimony to TimmyBrown's greatness in the book, that you've
created really a legacy for him andan opportunity for Eagles fans and fans of
football and fans of sports everywhere cantake a look at. The book is
(17:38):
called Running Against the Grain, TheStory a Philadelphia Eagle and movie Star Timmy
Brown, written by David Sullivan,Sean Shrever, and Roy Weaver. Roy
and David joining us here today.Thank you so much, Thank you very
much for having us, Lawren.The book can be bought through Amazon,
or it can be ordered through Barnesand Nobles and a number of independent book
(18:00):
stores, but we really encourage peopleto order it through bookstores that have a
community in their own community of readers, such as Hakeems or Uncle Bobby's.
And we encourage everyone to go toour website Eagle twenty two dot org.
That's Egle dot org dot com becausethere are a number of other stories,
video clips, and other interesting informationthat people can see. Well. I
(18:25):
think that sounds like a wonderful opportunityto get to know Timmy Brown, a
former Philadelphia Eagle's legend known for hiselectrifying performances on the football field, a
player who not only was a greatplayer, but also a great man,
and that again captured in the bookRunning Against the Grain, The Story of
Philadelphia Eagle and movie star Timmy Brown, written by David Sullivan, Sean Shriver
(18:48):
and Roy Weaver. Thank you you'relistening to what's going on? Wake up
and text? Text and eat,Text and catch the bus, Text and
miss your stopit wait wait, Textand be late to work Sorry late.
(19:14):
Text and work, Text and pretendto work. Text and act surprised when
someone calls you out for not workingme. Text and meet up with a
friend you haven't seen in forever,hi Oho. Text and complain that they're
on their phone the whole time.Text and listen to them, complain that
you're on your phone the whole time. Uh, Text and whatever. But
(19:38):
when you get behind the wheel,give your phone to a passenger, put
it in the glove box. Justdon't text and drive. Visit stop texts
Stop rex dot org a public serviceannouncement brought to you by the National Highway
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Maybe you didn't choose this that you'rehere. Now you're gonna go out
there and be an all star caregiver. It's up to you. So what
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This is your time to show theworld, your family, and yourself
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(21:14):
for this world has ever seen.Caregiving is tougher than tough. Find the
careguids you need at AARP dot org. Slash Caregiving a public service announcement brought
to you by AARP and the ADCouncil I'm the rain ballad Borrow with CEOs
you should know, brought to youby Comcast Business. Corin O'Connell. I'm
the CEO of Habitat for Humanity Philadelphia. Tell us about the mission of Habitat.
(21:40):
So At Habitat for Humanity, Philadelphia, we build and repair homes in
partnership with families in need. Andit's grounded in this audacious vision of a
city and a world where everyone hasa decent place to live. How does
it work? So we work alongsidefamilies, first time home buyers. They
are low income first time home buyers. Partnership alongside these families to buy their
(22:07):
homes. So Habitat where the caseworker, where the bank, where the builder,
where the developer. Families buy theirhomes. It is a low interest
mortgage and it's a thirty year lowinterest mortgage. And the whole purpose there
right is that it's affordable and thatfamilies can start to build equity. How
did Habitat for Humanity get started?Well, everybody thinks we got started because
(22:32):
of Jimmy Carter. So in alittle bit of correcting there a little bit,
there's more to the story. Thefounder is Millard Fuller and his wife
Linda. But yes, our mostfamous volunteers are Jimmy and Rosalind Carter in
Philadelphia. We were started in nineteeneighty five in North Philadelphia on Wilt Street
and bringing it actually full circle PresidentCarter and Missus Carter. We hosted the
(22:55):
Carter Work Project in nineteen eighty eight, so and the Carter Work Project is
still going today. They just hostedthe thirty seventh annual in Charlotte, North
Carolina. What has been the impactof habitat so locally in Philadelphia. The
impact it's over one thousand families.And that is both through the new construction,
the traditional habitat model I just spokeof, and then in the last
(23:19):
ten or twelve years, we havealso developed a strategy to repair owner occupied
homes. So we go into homeswhere family own, fix the roof,
fixed bathrooms, fixed basements, fixedstairwells so that families can continue to stay,
maintain that asset, preserve the existingaffordable housing stock. So between the
(23:41):
two hundred and sixty five new homeswe've built and the eight hundred and fifty
plus homes we've repaired, right we'renorth of a thousand homes that we've worked
to make safe, warm, anddry. That's fantastic. So tell us
what it means to be a homeowner. What is the impact of the individuals
and families that now own these homesthat they helped build and they were invested
(24:06):
in so many other ways. Sohome is medicine, home as education,
home is equity, home is stability, home is safety. Those words sort
of sit there, But what thendoes that mean? So I offer the
example. We have a family thatbought their home. The mom worked at
ihop and to the lunch shift atihop because she wanted to be at home
(24:26):
when her boys went to school inthe morning. She wanted to be home
at the end of the day whenthey got home to do homework. She
comes into the habitat program. Shefinishes her sweat equity right, so her
own investment in the home they buyit is affordable. It's a thirty year
affordable mortgage. Sons one finished outof Westchester, one finished out of Penn
State. Mom went back to communitycollege herself, So that gives some context.
(24:51):
Right of home as medicine, homeas education, home is employment,
home is equity, home is opportunity. So what got you involved with Habitat.
What is it about the mission ofHabitat for Humanity that really resonated with
you so that you would want towork for this organization? I think our
secret sauce and what keeps me comingback because it's hard, right, what
(25:15):
we do is hard. What invigoratesme? You know, we shorten our
name and we just abbreviate it andtalk Habitat right, work at Habitat or
I build with Habitat. I volunteeredwith Habitat. But that third word,
right, Habitat for Humanity, that'sI think our secret sauce. That's what
keeps me coming back. We inwho we are and where we build,
in the relationships we build creates proximityfor people who from all different walks of
(25:41):
life, perhaps maybe never intersect.And in building alongside someone in a neighborhood
where you've never been before, it'sabout building relationship and again that proximity.
And so when you're in relationship,it's hard to hang on to beliefs about
what the others or what they shouldor we should or what have you.
When you're in relationship, you getto know humans. It's easier to solve
(26:06):
human problems when we know one anotherand work alongside one another. So that's
what keeps me coming back. Right. I've had the opportunity to meet hundreds
of families who have bought their homesand had their homes repaired by Habitat.
Their lived experience, it's their determination, their tenacity, and that universally I
(26:27):
hear from families in our program righttheir moms and dads who just right are
doing everything they can so that theirkids have every opportunity in front of them.
That's a universal that's not this groupor that group. Like every parent
wants what's best for their kids.Tell us on both sides, the people
(26:47):
that you would like to apply tobe a part of the program and the
people you would like to come joinyou as volunteers. So all of that
information is on our website, habitatPhiladelphia dot org. We're right now in
an application cycle, so if peopleare interested to learn more and to apply
for home ownership at Habitat, it'sall on our website, as well as
(27:08):
the information about repairs we're currently repairingin lower North Central Philadelphia and West Philadelphia,
so those targeted zip codes in thoseneighborhoods, So to learn more.
I would encourage people on the volunteerside of things same Habitat Philadelphia dot org.
Come out and build, Come outand volunteer at our restores. So
(27:29):
that we have two thrift stores.They are open to the public. Proceeds
of those restores of building materials andhome goods. Every dollar we raise through
those restores helps to build and repairmore homes. So it's another great opportunity
for somebody who's like, oh,maybe I don't want to do insulation on
a house. Great, come ondown to the restore. You can help
us there any final words before weclose. So we have the trust of
(27:52):
donors and volunteers and corporate and foundationslike we cannot do it alone. And
we talk about building together at HabitatPhiladelphia, and it is an all play,
right, it is together we're ableto do more. So acknowledging everybody
who has invested their time, talentand treasure. And then I think my
last parting thought is there's more thanenough, right, There's enough out there
(28:15):
in this world, in our countryand in our city. Yes, that
vision is audacious. A city whereeveryone has a decent place to live,
and it is entirely possible. Ilove that. Carinn O'Connell, Chief Executive
Officer of Habitat for Humanity, Philadelphia, Thank you, Thank you for having
me. CEOs you should know broughtto you by Comcast Business offering the complete
(28:38):
connectivity solution, cybersecurity, Internet andmobile, all from one provider, Comcast
Business, Powering Possibilities. You canlisten to all of today's interviews by going
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the iHeartRadio app ye Words Philadelphia CommunityPodcast. Follow me on Twitter and Instagram
(29:00):
at Lorraine Ballard. I'm Lorraine BallardMOREL and I stand for service to our
community and media that empowers. Whatwill you stand for? You've been listening
to what's going on, and thankyou
Good morning, and welcome to What'sgoing on? A show about making a
difference in our lives and our communities. I'm Lorraine Ballard Marle Hope you're having
a wonderful Thanksgiving holiday today. Letme tell you about an online feature that
we have highlighting CEOs. You shouldknow. I really wanted to share this
interview with our broadcast and streaming audiencebecause corinne O'Connell's CEO of Habitat for Humanity
(00:22):
Philadelphia, blew me away with thework her organization is doing to fulfill a
vision where everyone has a decent placeto live. First, let's get into
a little Eagles history lesson about aplayer who broke barriers and is also responsible
for one of the reasons Philly fanshate the Dallas Cowboys. Timmy Brown was
a former Philadelphia Eagles legend known forhis electrifying performances on the football field.
(00:49):
He was a versatile player who excelledas a running back and returned specialist during
his time with the Eagles from nineteensixty to nineteen sixty seven. He had
a less legacy in the hearts ofEagles fans. He also had a colorful
career outside of the stadium. Totell us more are the authors of Running
Against the Grain, the story ofPhiladelphia Eagle and movie star Timmy Brown,
(01:11):
written by David Sullivan, Sean Scharver, and Roy Weaver. We have David
and Roy with us right now,so let's talk about Timmy Brown. Roy
and David tell us what is yourrelationship with the story of Timmy Brown.
Start with you, Roy. InFebruary two thousand and eight, I was
(01:32):
dean of the Teachers College at BallState University in Munsey, Indiana, and
I hosted alumni gathering in Palm Springs, California, and Timmy was among the
alumni who showed up, and Iobserved him with the crowd. He didn't
put on airs and or like looklike a star, act like a star.
(01:52):
He came across just a common person, genuine person, but it was
clearly had a fascinating life. Andas time went on, I saw the
crowd around him and he told thesefascinating stories. And so after the event
I cornered him and I said,Tim has anyone approached you about writing a
story about your life? And hesaid, no one had, And so
that's how it began. I seeand what about you, David, What
(02:14):
was your connection with the story ofTimmy Brown. My connection is that I
met Roy at a journalism school eventin Ball State, which is my school
as well, back in about tentwelve years ago, and I knew nothing
about Timmy Brown. Then. Iwas not a big sports fan, and
Roy and his wife Marilyn reached outto me. I was working for the
(02:38):
Philadelphia Enquirer at that point as anassistant managing editor and asked if I'd like
to become involved in the book.Well, after I retired from the paper
in twenty twenty, there was timeto work on the book full time,
and so I devoted my research toPhillies years, Timmy's years in Philadelphia.
(03:00):
So Timmy Brown had a challenging childhoodand upbringing, and I guess with all
challenging stories, that's all part ofthe origin story of Let's talk a little
bit about his background and how itmight have influenced who he was as not
only a player, but as anindividual. Roy, what did you learn
(03:20):
about Timmy based on some of hishistory? Sure, when he was in
elementary school, his parents divorced andhe had four sisters and a brother,
and he and his brother ended upand bounced around to a couple foster homes,
and in one of them he learnedseveral things. He ended up working
(03:45):
on a farm, and he learnedto deal with injustice and abuse, largely
from one of the farmers he workedwith and lived with, and while attending
school though, he would race fromthe bus from his home to the school
and often won, and he continuedto do that. It showed his interest
(04:05):
in running and became valuable in thatregard. At the Soldiers and Sailors Home,
he learned how to build structure intohis life, an organization easily got
along with his peers, and blackwell Well never sacrificeeing his integrity. Over
time, he faced a lot ofracism in his life too, and he
(04:25):
once said that it made him feeluncomfortable. People tried to make him think
he was different, but he saidsegregation was an irritable thing because I always
felt I was egal. I didn'tdwell on it, and I didn't really
feel any animos. See a couplequick examples. He was taken off the
basketball team for two games because heallegedly was messing with a white girl,
(04:49):
and he said he wasn't and thecoach said, well, just admit that
you were and you can play thenext two games. He refused to.
He stood his ground. He waswith the and the Packers at an exhibition
game against Washington in North Carolina.When he went there, he discovered that
he and the other black players couldn'tstay with the team. They had to
(05:12):
stay a North Carolina A and Tdormitory rooms. And he was incensed by
that. He was going to saysomething about it, but one of the
black players said, no, ifyou say anything about it, you're likely
to lose your position on the teamat that time, so he didn't.
But in the game he ran apass play for twenty two yards that set
(05:32):
up the winning touchdown against the Redskins. And as you know, the Redskins
were opposed to having black players onthe team at that time. Yeah,
let's talk David. Let's talk aboutwhat football was like in the sixties.
It's very different than it is today. And certainly, for many black players,
as Roy indicated, they experienced racism, they experienced segregation, and yet
(05:58):
clearly Timmy Brown was able to overcomethe barriers that existed for him and refused
to let that put him down orkeep him down. Right when he got
into pro football, which was ofcourse, after one game with the Green
Bay Packers and Vince Lombardi cut him, and then he came to Philadelphia the
(06:19):
next year. At that time,it was commonly understood that there was a
cap of three black players per team. Wow. Any more than any more
than that, you risked the yourisked your fan base being upset, You
risked the other owners being upset.And while Timmy was able to excel on
(06:42):
the field, as Roy said,he continually faced problems off the field.
He would go into bars where theteam was hanging out and some of the
players would say an essence, youdon't belong here. His whole initial interview
with Vince Lombardi was Vince saying,you don't look like a football player,
and Kenny said, well, I'mnot sure what you think a football player
(07:03):
looks like. Vince Lombardi says,so you're a smart guy, huh.
He was. However, of coursein the era when football did start to
open up, when those bars tothose caps on the number of players did
start to go away, and sohe was able to benefit from that.
Well, what you say about VinceLombardi puts a little bit of shade on
(07:27):
Vince Lambarti's legacy as one of thewinningest and greatest coaches of all time.
Clearly he was very much of aflawed individual to have said things like that
to Timmy Brown and probably other playersas well. Now, Timmy Brown was
a very renowned player for the Eagles, and I understand that his success as
(07:49):
a running back led to the PhiladelphiaEagles fans hatred of the Dallas Cowboys.
So let's talk origin story here.So you know that hatred is long and
deep. So tell us what happened, well and on. It was in
a game on November sixth, nineteensixty six, against the Cowboys at Franklin
Field. This is pre veteran stadium, and Timmy said a record He was
(08:15):
the first player in NFL history torun two kickoffs back for touchdowns in the
same game, which led to upsettwenty four to twenty three. And that
was when the Cowboys were coached byTom Landry. A lot of people who
remember the NFL at that time rememberTom Landry standing on the side with his
(08:35):
fedora and his long raincoat on.And before next time, the Dallas was
playing Philadelphia in nineteen sixty seven.It was a home game in Dallas.
Timmy said he was told by otherplayers that the Cowboys were about to get
even. So there was a passplay. Timmy wasn't the intended receiver,
He wasn't even close to the ball, and Leroy Johnson, player for Dallas,
(09:00):
an elbow into his jaw and bustedsix of his teeth. Wow.
Frank Olsen, the incquire sports columnistat the time, said, it happened
the way a bowling ball knocks downa row of pins. And that's been
a tested even in a thing inthe Inquirer within the last couple of years,
as that was the start of Philadelphia'sdislike of the Dallas Cowboys. Well,
(09:22):
it's nice to know the origin story. I always share in that dislike
of the Cowboys. But now Ihave even more reason to hate them.
Sokay, thank you for that.Now. Timmy Brown was more than just
a football player because he went onto actually perform in movies. Tell us
more about this other career that hehad. Roy He actually was in the
(09:46):
first six episodes of Mesh, theTV series. He was in the movie
Mesh. Probably his most prominent rolewas in Robert Altman's movie Nashville. And
after that though, he didn't reallyget back into movies. And it's an
(10:07):
interesting story because Robert Duvall and ElisGole tell the story of an incident where
Timmy beat Robert Altman in a gameof chess, and Timmy then realized that
he'd been blackballed from Mompment. Buthe couldn't believe he had been blackballed because
(10:28):
it was chess. But the twoof his colleagues said, you know,
you just should never beaten the boss. Oh, how unfair is that?
That's pretty terrible. Well, hedid have something of a career, and
many football players trying to make thattransition into Hollywood and into acting. But
(10:50):
that and Timmy Brown had a gloriousperiod in which he was able to be
in those movies. In that program, he also had a kind of a
spectacular love life. He was connectedwith a very well known singer, tell
Us More Jimmy Uh performed as asinger himself. He had put he put
(11:11):
out about five records, as youcan find out in our book, and
he performed at the Latin Casino,which long time Philadelphians will remember it was
in Philadelphia. Then we moved outto Rout seven and Cherry Hill, and
he was out there once with DianeDeon Warwick. He was dating Dion,
but it wasn't a romantic thing.It was more of a friendship thing,
(11:33):
and Diana Ross and the Supremes wererecording there. Diana Ross, to hear
Timmy tell it, Diana Ross movedin on him, and Dion was not
too happy about this. Apparently Dianawas very interested in him, and in
fact, there were times after gamesTimmy lived with a couple. This is
(11:54):
shows how football is different. Helived in the house with a couple over
in West philadelph and Diana Ross wouldoccasionally go over there after games and other
players would come over and Timmy wouldbe so beaten up from the game that
he would just want to go intohis little room in this couple's house,
and so Diana Ross would act asthe hostess for the other players because she
(12:18):
was Timmy's girlfriend. There is somebelief, however, that Diana really had
her eye elsewhere, that she wastrying she was wanting to get further and
integrated with the very Gordy and hopingto make him jealous. So oh,
(12:39):
I love it. You're pouring somemajor picture of tea here, so we
always appreciate the tea being poored.That's very interesting little backstory there. Now,
As with so many football players,especially in the earlier years of football,
they don't always end very well.And Timmy eventually fell out of,
(13:00):
you know, sort of the glamorouslife and became a probation officer and then
later on had to deal with dementia. And you have to wonder now whether
it's related to the concussions that wenow know are very prevalent among football players
that can lead to brain injuries laterin life. Tell us about the later
years of Timmy Brown. Yeah,in nineteen eighty six he began doing volunteer
(13:24):
work with the Los Angeles County ProbationOffice and he was mentoring students and schools
and youth centers, and his commitand impact were noticed and recognized in nineteen
seventies Happy Days Icon Henry Winkler asVolunteer of the Year by the department,
and his continuing service led him togain a position for another ten years.
(13:46):
For half of that time he workedwith youth and for the other half of
that time he worked with adults,and he worked on a weekly basis with
adults looking at drug trest counseling them, trying to make them stay on track.
One observer described him as a generousperson with his time, who loved
(14:07):
people, and people really loved him. He reflected later that he was simply
giving back to all the support andmentoring that he had received. On November
fourteenth of twenty thirteen, I actuallytook him to see a neurologist in Palm
Springs who eventually identified the symptoms ofParkinson's and dementia. And that happened just
(14:31):
a month after a book was releasedby a couple of uth CLA researchers,
and the book was called League ofDenial. The NFL concussions in the Battle
for Truth. On one occasion thathe was out walking, actually he'd walked
to a casino, was not toofar away and started walking back and lost
(14:52):
track of where he was, andhe called a friend who drove to pick
him up, and she found himthat he was just exhausted and flabbergasted and
didn't know where he was. Andthat was the beginning of his losing his
memory in a more significant way,and he became dependent on the use of
a cane, which infuriated him aswell, but the deterioration of his health
(15:16):
really took a significant toll. Hedied on April fourth, twenty twenty,
but he was surrounded with his familyduring that time. Also, one of
the things that continued to seem tokeep him happy was the playing of a
video called Love Overboard that he recordedwith Gladys Knight in the Pips. So
(15:39):
having known Roy, having known himfor so long, I mean, that
has to have been a very sadtime as a friend to see someone who
was so vital and so engaged sortof lose all of that towards the end.
And football being what it is,it hasn't taken very good care of
some the ogs of the football field, right right, It was very disappointing
(16:03):
to no longer being recognized. Orwe on a couple occasions were going to
go out someplace and we were goingto pick him up and I went to
pick him up and he wasn't therebecause he thought he was supposed to go
ahead. So there were a numberof incidents like that that gradually you just
knew. At one point. Forexample, we used to read parts of
(16:26):
the text together, drafts and hewould read a little bit. I'd read
a little bit, and I'd say, if you find something that you think
is wrong, let's change it.If you didn't think of something, tell
me about it. And we wereworking on the ball State chapter and I
was reading a little bit about itand he interrupted me and said, I
didn't go to Ball State. Iwent to Butler. He used to joke
(16:48):
with me a lot, so Ithought he was just joking with me,
and I said, oh, comeon, Tim, we don't have time
for this. And I could seein his eyes a very serious look at
me, and he said firmly,I went to Butler, I didn't go
to Ball State. And I sharethat with you because from that time on,
I could no longer count on him, so we could no longer do
what we'd always done. And soI'm sorry that there probably are a lot
(17:14):
of other stories that I could neverget because of that. But that's just
one really sad point in the time. Well, I think that what we
have now is a testimony to TimmyBrown's greatness in the book, that you've
created really a legacy for him andan opportunity for Eagles fans and fans of
football and fans of sports everywhere cantake a look at. The book is
(17:38):
called Running Against the Grain, TheStory a Philadelphia Eagle and movie Star Timmy
Brown, written by David Sullivan,Sean Shrever, and Roy Weaver. Roy
and David joining us here today.Thank you so much, Thank you very
much for having us, Lawren.The book can be bought through Amazon,
or it can be ordered through Barnesand Nobles and a number of independent book
(18:00):
stores, but we really encourage peopleto order it through bookstores that have a
community in their own community of readers, such as Hakeems or Uncle Bobby's.
And we encourage everyone to go toour website Eagle twenty two dot org.
That's Egle dot org dot com becausethere are a number of other stories,
video clips, and other interesting informationthat people can see. Well. I
(18:25):
think that sounds like a wonderful opportunityto get to know Timmy Brown, a
former Philadelphia Eagle's legend known for hiselectrifying performances on the football field, a
player who not only was a greatplayer, but also a great man,
and that again captured in the bookRunning Against the Grain, The Story of
Philadelphia Eagle and movie star Timmy Brown, written by David Sullivan, Sean Shriver
(18:48):
and Roy Weaver. Thank you you'relistening to what's going on? Wake up
and text? Text and eat,Text and catch the bus, Text and
miss your stopit wait wait, Textand be late to work Sorry late.
(19:14):
Text and work, Text and pretendto work. Text and act surprised when
someone calls you out for not workingme. Text and meet up with a
friend you haven't seen in forever,hi Oho. Text and complain that they're
on their phone the whole time.Text and listen to them, complain that
you're on your phone the whole time. Uh, Text and whatever. But
(19:38):
when you get behind the wheel,give your phone to a passenger, put
it in the glove box. Justdon't text and drive. Visit stop texts
Stop rex dot org a public serviceannouncement brought to you by the National Highway
Traffic Safety Administration and the ad Council. Every twenty six seconds, a team
drops out of school and it's facinga severe educational crisis where one out of
(20:03):
five children are being left behind dueto the way their minds process information.
Bright youth are being told they're learningdisabled and placed in special education classes where
they don't belong However, at theBoys and Girls Clubs in Philadelphia, no
child is left behind as we helpto build the self confidence and academic competency
needed for lifelong success. The childrenof Philadelphia needs your help. For more
information, visit bgcphili dot org.Okay, man, this is your time.
(20:30):
Maybe you didn't choose this that you'rehere. Now you're gonna go out
there and be an all star caregiver. It's up to you. So what
are you gonna do. You gottago grocery shopping, cook clean, be
there emotionally and physically. You gottatake teaper, drive them the physical therapy,
doctor's appointments. Don't you forget aboutthe pharmacy. I know you won't,
(20:53):
because that's what caregivers do. Don'tgive up, don't ever give up.
This is your time to show theworld, your family, and yourself
that you're tougher than tough. I'llgo out there and be the best caregiver
(21:14):
for this world has ever seen.Caregiving is tougher than tough. Find the
careguids you need at AARP dot org. Slash Caregiving a public service announcement brought
to you by AARP and the ADCouncil I'm the rain ballad Borrow with CEOs
you should know, brought to youby Comcast Business. Corin O'Connell. I'm
the CEO of Habitat for Humanity Philadelphia. Tell us about the mission of Habitat.
(21:40):
So At Habitat for Humanity, Philadelphia, we build and repair homes in
partnership with families in need. Andit's grounded in this audacious vision of a
city and a world where everyone hasa decent place to live. How does
it work? So we work alongsidefamilies, first time home buyers. They
are low income first time home buyers. Partnership alongside these families to buy their
(22:07):
homes. So Habitat where the caseworker, where the bank, where the builder,
where the developer. Families buy theirhomes. It is a low interest
mortgage and it's a thirty year lowinterest mortgage. And the whole purpose there
right is that it's affordable and thatfamilies can start to build equity. How
did Habitat for Humanity get started?Well, everybody thinks we got started because
(22:32):
of Jimmy Carter. So in alittle bit of correcting there a little bit,
there's more to the story. Thefounder is Millard Fuller and his wife
Linda. But yes, our mostfamous volunteers are Jimmy and Rosalind Carter in
Philadelphia. We were started in nineteeneighty five in North Philadelphia on Wilt Street
and bringing it actually full circle PresidentCarter and Missus Carter. We hosted the
(22:55):
Carter Work Project in nineteen eighty eight, so and the Carter Work Project is
still going today. They just hostedthe thirty seventh annual in Charlotte, North
Carolina. What has been the impactof habitat so locally in Philadelphia. The
impact it's over one thousand families.And that is both through the new construction,
the traditional habitat model I just spokeof, and then in the last
(23:19):
ten or twelve years, we havealso developed a strategy to repair owner occupied
homes. So we go into homeswhere family own, fix the roof,
fixed bathrooms, fixed basements, fixedstairwells so that families can continue to stay,
maintain that asset, preserve the existingaffordable housing stock. So between the
(23:41):
two hundred and sixty five new homeswe've built and the eight hundred and fifty
plus homes we've repaired, right we'renorth of a thousand homes that we've worked
to make safe, warm, anddry. That's fantastic. So tell us
what it means to be a homeowner. What is the impact of the individuals
and families that now own these homesthat they helped build and they were invested
(24:06):
in so many other ways. Sohome is medicine, home as education,
home is equity, home is stability, home is safety. Those words sort
of sit there, But what thendoes that mean? So I offer the
example. We have a family thatbought their home. The mom worked at
ihop and to the lunch shift atihop because she wanted to be at home
(24:26):
when her boys went to school inthe morning. She wanted to be home
at the end of the day whenthey got home to do homework. She
comes into the habitat program. Shefinishes her sweat equity right, so her
own investment in the home they buyit is affordable. It's a thirty year
affordable mortgage. Sons one finished outof Westchester, one finished out of Penn
State. Mom went back to communitycollege herself, So that gives some context.
(24:51):
Right of home as medicine, homeas education, home is employment,
home is equity, home is opportunity. So what got you involved with Habitat.
What is it about the mission ofHabitat for Humanity that really resonated with
you so that you would want towork for this organization? I think our
secret sauce and what keeps me comingback because it's hard, right, what
(25:15):
we do is hard. What invigoratesme? You know, we shorten our
name and we just abbreviate it andtalk Habitat right, work at Habitat or
I build with Habitat. I volunteeredwith Habitat. But that third word,
right, Habitat for Humanity, that'sI think our secret sauce. That's what
keeps me coming back. We inwho we are and where we build,
in the relationships we build creates proximityfor people who from all different walks of
(25:41):
life, perhaps maybe never intersect.And in building alongside someone in a neighborhood
where you've never been before, it'sabout building relationship and again that proximity.
And so when you're in relationship,it's hard to hang on to beliefs about
what the others or what they shouldor we should or what have you.
When you're in relationship, you getto know humans. It's easier to solve
(26:06):
human problems when we know one anotherand work alongside one another. So that's
what keeps me coming back. Right. I've had the opportunity to meet hundreds
of families who have bought their homesand had their homes repaired by Habitat.
Their lived experience, it's their determination, their tenacity, and that universally I
(26:27):
hear from families in our program righttheir moms and dads who just right are
doing everything they can so that theirkids have every opportunity in front of them.
That's a universal that's not this groupor that group. Like every parent
wants what's best for their kids.Tell us on both sides, the people
(26:47):
that you would like to apply tobe a part of the program and the
people you would like to come joinyou as volunteers. So all of that
information is on our website, habitatPhiladelphia dot org. We're right now in
an application cycle, so if peopleare interested to learn more and to apply
for home ownership at Habitat, it'sall on our website, as well as
(27:08):
the information about repairs we're currently repairingin lower North Central Philadelphia and West Philadelphia,
so those targeted zip codes in thoseneighborhoods, So to learn more.
I would encourage people on the volunteerside of things same Habitat Philadelphia dot org.
Come out and build, Come outand volunteer at our restores. So
(27:29):
that we have two thrift stores.They are open to the public. Proceeds
of those restores of building materials andhome goods. Every dollar we raise through
those restores helps to build and repairmore homes. So it's another great opportunity
for somebody who's like, oh,maybe I don't want to do insulation on
a house. Great, come ondown to the restore. You can help
us there any final words before weclose. So we have the trust of
(27:52):
donors and volunteers and corporate and foundationslike we cannot do it alone. And
we talk about building together at HabitatPhiladelphia, and it is an all play,
right, it is together we're ableto do more. So acknowledging everybody
who has invested their time, talentand treasure. And then I think my
last parting thought is there's more thanenough, right, There's enough out there
(28:15):
in this world, in our countryand in our city. Yes, that
vision is audacious. A city whereeveryone has a decent place to live,
and it is entirely possible. Ilove that. Carinn O'Connell, Chief Executive
Officer of Habitat for Humanity, Philadelphia, Thank you, Thank you for having
me. CEOs you should know broughtto you by Comcast Business offering the complete
(28:38):
connectivity solution, cybersecurity, Internet andmobile, all from one provider, Comcast
Business, Powering Possibilities. You canlisten to all of today's interviews by going
to our station website and typing inkeyword Community. You can also listen on
the iHeartRadio app ye Words Philadelphia CommunityPodcast. Follow me on Twitter and Instagram
(29:00):
at Lorraine Ballard. I'm Lorraine BallardMOREL and I stand for service to our
community and media that empowers. Whatwill you stand for? You've been listening
to what's going on, and thankyou
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