July 16, 2021 • 31 mins
Ben reminisces with a former NBA player he became friendly with back in the day who talks about trash talking Michael Jordan.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Boom. If you thought four hours a day, minutes a
week was enough, think again. He's the last remnants of
the old republic, a sole fashion of fairness. He treats
crackheads in the ghetto cutter the same as the rich
pill poppers in the penthouse, to clearinghouse of hot takes,
break free for something special. The Fifth Hour with Ben
(00:24):
Maller starts right now, nine nine nine in the air,
everywhere Back again. Another weekend has begun with the podcast
because hey, listen four hours a night in the Overnight
or Not Enough, a spinoff of the Ben Maller radio
(00:46):
program eight days a week, eight days a week. I
hope you had a chance to hear the Ben Mallor
Show podcast and now you're listening to this podcast. So
we do something a little different if you're if you're
new to the party. And every Friday we like to
bring in someone who I know or I like, who
(01:10):
I want to talk to, because we don't get to
do that on the overnight show. It's, you know, late
at night, it's hard to hard to get anyone to
call in live, and we generally have you the callers,
the few people that call up who are the characters
on the show and stuff so on. On Fridays here
we like to bring somebody in and this week we
are excited to welcome in a former NBA player, someone
(01:33):
who I actually have known for you know, casually, casually.
It's not like we're you know, we're best friends. But
I've known this guy for many, many years. Uh. He
played for the Clippers when I was a radio reporter
just getting started in, you know, in that early mid
nineties period, and we became somewhat friendly in that period
(01:57):
of time. And he's gone on, had a big career,
played over ten years in the NBA's played in the
minor leagues of basketball for the Harlem Globe Trys. We're
talking about Derek Martin. He played it, you see, l
A for the Bruins and he went undrafted and the
guys had a ten He had a tenure career in
(02:17):
the wild world of basketball and has been a coach
and broadcaster. He's pretty much seen and done it all
as a basketball hobo. But I remember him as a Clipper,
and he played with Vancouver and Sacramento and Dallas and
the Toronto Raptors and Minnesota, all these teams. But I
(02:37):
I have fond members of of Derreck Martin as a
clipper and he joins us now and Derek welcome in.
I know you called in the other night to the
Overnight Show. Is great to hear from you. I've seen
you pretty active lately on Twitter and what not. So
give me the give me the inside skinny. What have
you been up to recently? Well, you know, I had
a good run as a coach of the assistant coach
(02:58):
at St. John's under Steve Lavin, assistant with Kurt Rambis
when he was at Minnesota Timberwolves. And then I was
fortunate enough to be the head coach of the Areno Bighorns,
the D League team for a Sacramento for a couple
of years. So, uh, the coaching thing was doing good.
But as my son got a little older, I wanted
to be closer to him. So me and Mitchell Butler
have started our own training business. It's Legacy West Basketball
(03:22):
dot Com. And so we've been doing that and it's
it's been taken off really good, teaching the next generation
of basketball players how to do it. So I for
those who don't know the story, like we crossed passed.
You were playing for the Clippers. You will get to
your your NBA career, but you played for the Clippers
in the nineties and I was a young punk radio
reporter in that time period and uh, you know, trying
(03:44):
to make it in radio, and I covered you when
you were playing with the Clippers, and I always appreciated Derek.
You were very kind, you know, as you would admit
those teams were not particularly great in that that time
period at the sports Arena. But but looking back at
that part of your career, what stands out back in
that like the mid nineties kind of that timeline, Oh man,
(04:07):
Just opportunity to play at home in front of my family,
my friends. Uh, like you said, the sports Arena was
not really cracking, like to stay what's sit there is
especially in support of us. So I was able to
get about thirty tickets to night and after the family
coming there, and it was just a special time for
me to be able to uh kind of take off
and establish my pro career, making my mark that I
(04:29):
can play in the NBA right there in front of
my friend family. So it was really cool. It was
really cool, and I you know, there's not a lot
I remember about going to those games, but I do
remember the night that you lit up the Utah Jazz.
I said that the other night when you called into
the show. But that was one of those I mean,
you just were I mean, I think you made a
bunch of foul shots. If I remember when you scored
you're right on forty points or something like that against
(04:50):
the gym, and that was when they asked John, Yeah,
Stockton and Malone. I mean, that was what I had.
That was great night, funny stories. I was, well, we're
just was on the team and we had been college together.
And after the first quarter, I was feeling pretty good,
laughed and turned to it. I said, I'm gonna have
thirty whatever, and I went out and had a big
(05:13):
night and it was pretty cool, Like it was on
the front of my parents, my family, my brothers and sister.
That was a really cool experience, something I always cherished. Yeah,
that was that was I remember. And yeah, as somebody
that played for the Clippers in the less than ideal
period and now they've been the last few years, they've
been one of the better teams in the NBA every
year there because it odd as just somebody that experienced
(05:35):
the Clippers at the Sports Arena, to see that the
franchise actually doesn't stink anymore. They're actually good. It's pretty
cool for me. It's really is. Uh. You know, I
told Clippers have always been seen as the little brother
in l A. And that's understandably. You know, this is
the Lakers town and that's cool. But you know, like
I said back then, we get text too, even though
(05:56):
sometimes they bounced being from Donald Thurling, but we were
eight players also, So to see the transition Mr Bomber
come in, uh, Doc Rivers there first and then now Tyler.
They're really starting to establish a good culture and a
place where free agents would like to come. So that's
really cool for me to see. I mean, I'm enjoying it.
(06:16):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Ben Maller
Show weekdays at two a m. Eastern eleven pm Pacific
on Fox Sports Radio and the I Heart Radio app. Yeah.
And as an l A guy, I mean from Long
Beach or in l A guy you put at U
C l A. And I always I get this argument.
You know, all the guys I work with their Laker apologists,
and they always like, whatever the Lakers do, they defend
(06:37):
and there's room for the Clippers, and every time the
Clippers do anything, these people get triggered and they're like
they freak out because they're jealous of the any success.
It's very annoying. Tonny man, It's it's hilarious. I laughed.
You know, my brother and sister gotten me kind of
up to date it on social media and how to
use it and everything. So I like to go on.
(06:57):
It's like you said, see all the Laker apologists and everything.
It's funny. You know, this town is big enough to
have the Lakers in the Clippers. I do think the
Clippers need to have their own building. Uh kind of
developed their own identity, and I I have even tossed
around maybe changing the name, just to kind of completely
move on from the Donald Starting era. What would you
(07:17):
call him? What would you call the Clippers there? What name?
I don't know. I haven't come up with a creative
name yet, but I will be if I do, I
will definitely submit it. Yeah no, no, it's gonna be like, uh, well,
nicknames are a very dicey subject these days. But something
we like, I like just like the Hollywood stars or
something you can play in Inglewood there they're building that
arena in Inglewood. In a few years they gonna have
(07:38):
that arena, but uh like something like l A centric
that you know, I will work on it. But anyway, listen,
I remember before I forget here, Derek, when you were
playing for the clips I was doing. I was a
reporter and then I became a talk show host. Around
that time, I was doing the Ben and Dave Show
and you called in every once in a while. That
(07:59):
I remember time we were doing a remote from from
a bar and you were driving around and you were
so cool. You showed up to hang out with us,
and that was awesome. That was that was You probably
even remember that, Derek, but you were no. I do
I remember it. I definitely remember when I, like I said,
I'm just learning about doing the social media. So when
I found out you had a show, I just started
(08:21):
to recollect all the things, like coming on your show,
going to that remote. I really enjoyed coming on your show, man,
that was really cool. So that's kind of why I
reached out to you. Just wanted to say hello and
see how you're doing and just say you congratulations on
getting happened what you have now, because I remember those days,
and I do remember that remote that I came to.
We had a good time. Yeah, it was great. We
were like shocked. We were like, wait, and an NBA
(08:44):
guys showing up to our remote, It's like weird. I mean,
I didn't expect that doing the Night Show back then.
But and I got to I mean, Derek, you have
had you must have the biggest man cave of all
the jerseys. That it's like a Dr. Seuss poem. The
places you'll go to peep well, you'll see how many
cities have you lived in as a basketball But you've
(09:04):
been all over the place. Oh, I've been all over
I was explaining to my son all the different teams
I've played for. And let's see the Clippers, Minnesota, Dallas, Toronto, Vancouver, UH, Sacramento,
UH team in Pompey, Italy. I played with the Magic
Johnson Tour teams for in Russia. I've played um for
(09:29):
the Globe Riter. So I got a chance to see
the world. A huge question just all because of the
game of basketball. So how difficult when you're when you're
a player, you bounces around. How difficult is it? I
mean we see this all the time. Guys get traded
and stuff and it's not like totally unique, but you've
had to live in all these different cities. You've got
to get doctors and all that. How how big a
(09:51):
pain in the assd is that, Derek? When you keep
changing cities and you have to you know, find a
new location all that. Uh, you know, I've kind of
gotten used to it. I kind of got used to it.
And we went down for Father's Day, me and my brother,
his kids, my son, my sister's kids, and we're all
in the hotel and they just loved it. And I said, yeah,
I'm Candida live in this hotel. Just fund all his
(10:13):
light that they said, Oh, this is great, my son,
this is great that we do this all the time. Yeah,
your dad has lived that life. So you know, it's
it's fun. I kind of enjoyed it. I kind of
enjoyed especially when I got a chance to maybe also
to uh go overseas playing Russia, playing in Italy. Uh
to see the different cultures and learned from the people
(10:35):
in that city. Uh. So it's been fun. You know.
I never saw it as a as a burden. I
saw it as an opportunity to learn and and see
something new. Yeah, and I love to find I didn't realize,
you know, I lost track of a little bit. I
didn't realize you had played with the Harlem Globe Trotters.
And I was aware of that fun fact when I
was a kid, Derek, my parents took me to see
the Harlem Globetrotters and it actually helped. I was a
(10:57):
little kid. I don't remember how old I was. I
was very smart, but I are like falling in love
with basketball with all the you know, the trick shots
and all that stuff. So when you played with when
you play with the Globe tracks, like, what was your
did you have a signature move? Did you have your
signature go to thing that you would entertain the fans with. No.
So what they had was was a team that would
(11:17):
play exhibitions against college teams like Syracuse, Michigan State, and
uh UTEP and a few other schools, and then after
the game, the real game, then the Globetriters that did
the entertaining would come in. So I played on the
team the first team that played the real exhibition games
and played against Syracuse Utah and I remember this one
(11:39):
game against Michigan State. Shannon Brown was still that was
there at the time. And he was supposed to be
the defensive stopper and I kind of really got go
and have one of those. I end up with thirty
eight and doing the course of the game. Michael's uh,
Tom millel yo that you can't carry that odd guy.
I said, hey, Loo man, you once you come out
here and try to gard me yourself for It was
(12:00):
a lot of fun. I enjoyed it. Mammy Jackson Um
did a wonderful job running that organization, and Chad Growth
was a part of it also too, So it was
definitely a great experience and definitely something I treasure. That's
pretty cool. Yeah, I did see the story the other day.
I think it was just for publicity. They said the
Harlem Globe Trotter said they wanted to be an NBA
expansion team. They wanted to be an expansion You can't
(12:22):
be the the Globe Trotters. You can't be in the
n Yeah, no, I can't be in it. They would
lose their lord. You know, they have a nitch. They
should just keep going with that Niche like you said,
they don't even know how they affect so many young kids.
He's like you said, you fell in love with the
game of basketball after going to oh you Globe Trotter
at one time. So you know, I think they should
(12:43):
just stay in that lane and and and enjoy it
and and just write it out. I agree. So and
when I told a friend of mine, I said, you know,
Derek called in and he remembered you when you played
and stuff, and he said, he said, you gotta ask
Derek about the Michael Jordan's story and so so uh
so I've been asked, I guess this goes back to
your Vancouver days, Derek, and it's a yeah, yeah, I've been.
(13:07):
It's been funny. I'm almost in the last six seven months,
I've been on tour telling that story. A few people
have asked me. And it's a lot of backdrop to it.
There was Michael's out here filming space dams, and of
course everybody knows about the tent that they built for
in the court and what have you. So he's playing
(13:27):
against mostly a lot of Urian players and he wasn't
feeling challenge. So he called up Magic and said, hey,
you know, you've got any guys that can come down
here and play, you know, local NBA guys. So he's
Magic called me, said little fill if you take a
group of guys down there. So I said, yeah, okay.
So all my guys at that time, we all grew
up together, Chris Mills, Tracy Murray, Mitchell Butler. So we
(13:49):
go down there to play. So we're waiting to come
on and play. Finally it's our game going to seven
and at six six, I come down on the wing,
act like I'm gonna shoot, and Michael jumps for the
a fake and I go by and lay it up
and I just commenced to talk, excuse me trash to
Michael for about the next minute and a half and
(14:09):
I'm telling him everything, get out of my city. This
is l A. You're not the real m J Magic,
the real m J. Just get out of here. And
everybody's just laughing. They can't believe that the little guys
talking bad to Michael even so far, to so much
that Chris Mills picked me up on my finger. Uh,
Peter dangling. He's saying, d Mark stop stop. Stop. The
(14:30):
long story short, Michael comes on like two games later.
I was like, there's no way, because it's thirty people
in here. You're supposed to be wait. He's like, this
is my im come on what I want. So he
ends up being us in next game. And now he
follows me around the next minute and a half just
talking trash to me. So that's the backdrop going into
that year. And so he called Magic is like, man,
(14:51):
who's this little guy you must be talking about? Mark? Yeah,
DMR talk trash talks. So Michael I kind of, you know,
broke a little bit of a friendship. So fast forwards
and now we're playing in Vancouver. That's a thirteen game,
uh road trip for them. You know, most back then
in the NBA, when you get to that last game,
you're just kind of trying to get home. Vancouver was
(15:12):
the last game on the schedule on that trip. So
I came down. It was about two minutes ago. I
made a lay up and got an N one walk
by the bench. I told you would beat me to
night in so many words, and so Phil looked out
heading like, all right, what you want to do. So
Michael had untied issues, you know, kind of put the
towel on his head and was kind of just you know,
(15:34):
giving up for the night. So he tied his shoes
back up, takes the towel off, checks in, and he
comes stands next to me at the foul line. I
got a pretty good picture of it. And he says,
I told you about talking trash, and I still looked
up to the the collection. Man, you're not beating me to night, buddy.
So anyone's go ahead next like ten, he having points
to beat us down the stretch and Yrus Scott was
(15:55):
guard and he was so mad at me walking ahead
a lot. If you're going to truck trash, at least
starting a guy, I said, lust here right. So it
was a funny thing. So afterwards they told the ball
He sent the ball boys over to get me. So
we just kind of sat down and talk. He's like, man,
(16:16):
you don't ever stop. I said, you put your pants
one at the time, just like me. So I'm gonna
compete and do the same thing. So he laughs that
I like that. I like that, So that's good that.
It was pretty cool. So we could. You know, we
got a little bit of a friendship. When we see
each other, we laugh and talk about it. Oh that's great. Yeah,
And I saw I did see a clip and he
(16:37):
was like he was he he had his like he
was sitting on the bench. He had a towel on
Jordan like he was out of the game, and then
he because if you he came back, and that's a
that's a great were you are? You were one of
the few that played for the Vancouver version of the Grizzlies. Also, Derek,
I mean that you played for both You played for
both Canadian teams. You're one of the few, right. I
(16:59):
didn't realize that. My brother was telling me the other day.
He's like, you realizing one of the only guys let's
played for both Canadian teams teams, And I was like,
oh wow, I didn't know that. What was it like? Now?
A lot of like younger people probably don't even remember
the Vancouver Grizzlies. It's been so long, But like, what
was it like playing basketball in Vancouver? The team has
been been in Memphis for many years now. It's it
(17:22):
was amazing that Vancouver is a very underrated city. It's
beautiful up there. The people are nice, they got great food.
I think the team, the league just they didn't wait
it out long enough. You know, basketball was new to
that region and so fans were just starting to understand
the game. But they loved it. They supported the team.
They came out and cheered and it was a good
(17:44):
city for them to move the team from Vancouver to Memphis.
I think it's really I don't know if you you know,
like Memphis barbecue and I think it's okay, But it
was nothing to like the food, uh and Vancouver and
just the whole atmosphere. Vancouver was so relaxed and really cool.
I really enjoyed it. You know, I almost wish I
could have played half of my career there because that's
(18:05):
how much I enjoyed the city and how much I
enjoyed the fans and the people up there. They really
supported the team. Be sure to catch live editions of
The Ben Miller Show week days at two am Eastern
eleven p m Pacific. Hey, I'm John Middlecoff and I
host the Three and Out podcast. Do you like football?
Do you like the NFL? Do you like the NFL draft? Quarterbacks? Coaches? Well,
(18:26):
I talked about it all on the show. I used
to work for Andy Reid as a scout. Now I
give you my unfiltered and raw opinions on everything that
goes on the NFL. And you know, we're talking college
football because of how important the draft is year round.
Listen to the three and out podcast with me John
Middlecom on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcast or
wherever you get your podcasts. Yeah, and they loved you
(18:47):
in Toronto too, right, even though I mean you're you're
a backup guy in the Raptors, but they seem to
embrace you in Toronto. Also, Yeah, I really I enjoyed that.
It's funny because now now I walked into the locker
room and I was used to be in the baby
or the middle of the road guy. I walked into
the Toronto locker room and all of a sudden, I'm
an old guy. Really quick, I'm like, whoa, everybody in
(19:09):
here is twenty two. I'm like thirty something, right, So
it was it was pretty cool because now my role
kind of switched from maybe every day player, every game
player to sort of a backup and a mentor. And
it was really cool cool. You know, developed a really
good relationship with Chris Humphries, with Jose Calderon, Chris Boss,
(19:29):
Anthony Parker to the point where we all still talked
to this day and check on each other. So it
was a really good time. And I had a chance
to play for Sam Mitchell, who I played with my
rookie year in Minnesota. So things kind of went full
circle and that was pretty cool. The circle of life.
How weird is it? By the way, Deck, I mean,
we were around the same age, and like, I don't
even it's hard to be like, I've become the old
(19:51):
guy in radio and stuff, and it's odd to me.
It's bizarre. I don't I don't feel that old. I mean,
I'm sure you don't feel real. It's just it's a
weird thing. All of a sudden, you wake up and
you're like, wait a minute, Like twenty five years of
my career has gone by. It's pretty wild. And yeah,
I'm betting you're like, well, wait a minute, what's happened here?
You know? And I got one day and I got
a little bit of a belly. I'm like, man, where
(20:13):
did this come from? It's like overnight, this thing is changed.
I'm enjoying it, Like I said, I'm enjoying the business
with Mitchell father, myself, Legacy West dot com. I'm enjoying.
It's been a lot of time with my son teaching him.
Like I said, he's playing baseball and basketball, so I
might also have a first base uh going up here?
(20:36):
Pretty soon. So it's been fun. It's been fun. I've
been enjoying things right now. Now, your son's a little guy.
Does he have the does he have the love of
sports or have you kept him off the video games yet? Derek?
Have you've been able to keep him off the video games?
He does like a few video games right now. His
thing is the wrestling. He loves wrestling, the w W
E that He's got a lot of Uh, guys and
(20:59):
every now and then we'll play basketball or football, but uh,
definitely into the sports. He enjoys it. He has a
hitting coach that he goes to once a week. Uh.
He's really embraced basketball and he has a lot of
fun with it. Uh. It's really good. And sometimes I
get emotional just watch him because he's Derek Jr. So
to see Derek Jr. Just start to embrace the love
(21:21):
of sports is really cool. Well, and you know, if
he loves wrestling, he could become a professional wrestler. There
was a guy, Derek, you know that listened to my
show back. He used to send me emails back in
the day, and he was going to wrestling school in Florida.
They have a place in Tampa and he he became
the wrestler known as uh Russef. Now he's he goes
(21:42):
by the name Mero, but he was at one point
he was a big deal in the in the w W.
He had like a tenure career under the ring name
Rusef there and then he's you know, we played we
use him on the game. I have to tell much
T when I get off. Yeah, yeah, and w W
game Russ is on there and we play with that.
(22:05):
By the way, and this will also impress your your son.
That the reason I became friends with the wrestler Russef
who's now Miro is he's a Clipper guy. He likes
the Clippers, and yeah, yeah, he's actually he's he spent
some time in southern California. I think I know he
was living in Florida listening to the show because it's syndicated,
but he he did. He likes the Clippers. So we
(22:28):
were bo So yeah, so he probably knows who you
are and probably watched you play back back when you
were playing for the team back in the day. Okay, yeah,
definitely if you ever talked to you again, definitely he's
got love for us. Absolutely, no, absolutely, I will all right,
So I want to now let's get into meat and
potatoes basketball deck. So you reached out to me. You know,
I do these crazy monologues in the middle of the night,
(22:49):
screaming and shouting and all that stuff about basketball and
what's going on. But you played in the Golden Age
for many in the nineteen nineties. Back against you mentioned
your your friendship with Michael Jordan, and you played against
John Stockton, and you know, the great teams of that era.
What is the biggest difference. You watch the NBA today
and you're you're you're teaching beast, But when you watch
(23:10):
the NBA today and the way it's played the way
it was in the night, what is the biggest thing
that stands out to you? And I'm gonna say this,
and I'm sure people would take it the wrong way,
but what the first word that comes to my mind
is soft. It's kid, It's kind of soft and and
that's okay. Um, explain why because now they have uh,
the scoring is up. Everybody likes scoring. So the league
(23:32):
was really good about trying to create what they call
freedom of motion. Freedom of movement so it's less physical
and the scores are going up. I enjoyed. I would
love to play in this this area. The pick and
roll are Oh my goodness, if I could play pick
and roll uh every time down the floor. The taste
of space right now. But the biggest difference I think
(23:54):
is just not it's not as physical as when I played.
What they go to the monitor now to review as
a flavor and one flavorant to was just a normal
foul by tars locally or Buck Williams or Xavier McDaniel
or sabonus And when I first got in the league.
So uh, it's just less physical. Yeah, and they they
(24:14):
have to review everything there. It's see, I like to
watch these games, but why do they have to review everything?
You don't have to write, you can play. You played
the game there. They did not review every single I
mean they didn't even have that at the beginning there,
and everything's reviewed. It's insane. Why absolutely it is. And
and the other thing that I think the league's amasically
just tickened up on it. I don't know how you
(24:35):
do it. I know they did have a fine and
place for it, but you gotta watch the flopping. It's
getting out of hand. It really, it's kind of getting
out of hand and it's almost uh, it's very funny
sometimes how different players can bait the reps n calls
and there's really no contact there at all. Well, even
the other night in the final, I Devin Booker, who
(24:55):
had a great game, and he he it's like they
had an anviled dropped on his head and they went
to the replay and he wasn't even like really touched.
It was. It was wild, man. I mean, it happens
all the time, absolutely, yeah. Uh. And then when you
get to the point where there actually is a foul,
you know, so then it's kind of hard to decide
between the two. So they they have to find a
(25:18):
way to kind of tighten up on that a little bit. Now.
You also there, I must bring up you got you know,
I was praising Patrick Beverley. I was praising him with
the with the clips and the way that he was
playing against the Sun. You though, you were taking a
different position on Patrick Beverley when I was praising him
for the way he was playing in the in this
(25:39):
series against Feast. What was your your opinion? Give me
your your high take here. I think my high tech
is you really have to watch how he plays. I
think he does play dirty at times. I mean, you
can just listen to what Russell Westbrook has said. He's
hurt him. I don't think the head but the head
but of Devin book another day was unintentional. I think
(25:59):
it was incinal. The found that he made on Chris
Paul coming off the screen where his legs were Chris
Paul's elevated in the air and he could have landed
on his wrist or his neck or anything like that.
Those are not basketball plays. And I think he makes
too many of the non basketball plays, uh to be
considered playing defense. You know, that's not defense. And I
(26:23):
played against the Doug Christie, the Derek Harper's, the Gary Payton,
the guys that were called so called defenders, and they
never made defensive plays like that that that he does,
uh trying to make it still or make a play
where he undercut a guy or heard a guy's knee
and now he's outspore a period of time. Uh. You know,
(26:43):
I just think that's unnecessary. So I'm not necessarily a
big fan of his the way he plays. Uh, they're
just they're just not my style. That's not my thing. Well, Derek, though,
you have to admit though, he's found a niche, right,
he's got he's got his niche. People know who he is,
and he's been kind of like a backup guy most
of his his career. But yeah, and that and that's
what he is. And uh as you can see. And
(27:05):
I think in the theories before the Senis one, the
Dallas one, Tyler couldn't play him because his skill set
didn't fit what was going on. And it's just he's
not a typical guard in my opinion of the card
that we played against in the nineties. You know that
most of the point guards, you have to be able
to run a team. You have to be able to orchestrate,
(27:27):
be an extension of the coach, make a play for
yourself and also make playce for your teammates. And I
don't see him doing that. Yeah, so let's go back
to that when you were playing against those guys in
the nineties, like John. I've heard stories about John Stockton
and like what he was like to go against and
kind of he didn't seem like he was I don't
(27:47):
know if dirty is the right word, but he was
always in your business. Shall we say any any recollection
back in those days, any John Stockton thing that pops
up in your head there when you thought, think, oh, yeah,
he was physical. He was I wouldn't say dirty, but
he was physical with you. He had bumped you, shoot
you an elbow, you know. He was uh. He would
(28:07):
get into your grill and and try to frustrate you
in a different way than what Patrick Proppli does. It
was more of a competitor, you know, just if we're
on the on the streets of Compton or l A.
This is how we play, you know. And and John
was physical and and I loved it. It It brought the
best out of me. Having a chance to play against
John Stockings And a funny story. I got a chance
(28:28):
to coach his son, David when I was the head
coach Renal Big Horns, and he and I would sitting
around and just talk about the different games I played
against your dad. And then John started coming to our game,
so I got a chance to kind of sit down
and just talk to him other than competing against him.
And it was pretty cool. It was pretty cool. And
I told him he always brought the best out of
(28:49):
me and I always wanted h He said, Hey, I
knew playing against you. I couldn't have stuff, So it
was it was a good little give and take. That's
pretty that's pretty cool. And you're still you're still kind
of coaching, right because you're doing the basketball. You've got
the thing you're doing right now. But when you were
coaching in the in the is it was it the
G League then or the D League? What was it
(29:11):
called at the time, it was it was a D League,
I was. It was just it was a couple of
years a couple of years ago. Yeah, So, like, what
was it like coaching in the in the G League?
They're like, well, you had obviously been an assistant before
and stuff, but when you're the head coach and and
all that, what was what was that like for you?
It was really good. I enjoyed it immensely because the
(29:34):
role that those guys were taking the same role that
I took to get into the NBA, you know, playing
on Magic's All Star team, playing in the cb A,
grinding it out, so I understand what they were feeling emotionally,
what they were going through, so I could relate to them.
I could have to sit down and have conversations with
him and kind of keep them positive all the time
and keep them focused on the right path. And it
(29:57):
was really cool to be in that kind of grind
with him. I really enjoyed it. Uh. It was a
lot of fun I got to teach. I had a
good assistant in Rico heinz Um who was doing great
things right now with Sacramento and the development with the
players up there. So it was it was a huge,
dude blessing to be a head coach of the Renal
(30:18):
Big Horns and a lot of fun. You got to
help some guys further their dreams. I got Marcus Williams.
I don't know if you guys remember played at U
com playing in the league for a little bit. I
got him sort I had to tell end of his
career and kind of got him playing at a level
that he could finish his career just enjoying and and happy.
And we won two division titles when I was coaching,
and we got to the playoffs, end up losing in
(30:40):
the in the second round. But it was a lot
of fun. Definitely a lot of fun. Awesome, Derek. I
I know I've kept you for a while here. I
think I've gone over a lot of times, but I
appreciate seriously and uh, continued success and I have fun
memories of interacting with you back in the day. And uh,
I'm excited that you've reached out and call any time.
(31:03):
And you know we're on late at night, so if
you can't sleep, if you've got insomnia, uh, we'll be
there and uh and I'll shoot you a message. I
appreciate it. Thanks for doing this thing. Oh definitely, absolutely.
You know I'm usually up in in the evening just relaxing,
having a bottle of a nice Chianti or Barolo. So
definitely I'll shoot you a check your call. Awesome, thank
you there, I appreciate it. Okay, thanks Mann
Boom. If you thought four hours a day, minutes a
week was enough, think again. He's the last remnants of
the old republic, a sole fashion of fairness. He treats
crackheads in the ghetto cutter the same as the rich
pill poppers in the penthouse, to clearinghouse of hot takes,
break free for something special. The Fifth Hour with Ben
(00:24):
Maller starts right now, nine nine nine in the air,
everywhere Back again. Another weekend has begun with the podcast
because hey, listen four hours a night in the Overnight
or Not Enough, a spinoff of the Ben Maller radio
(00:46):
program eight days a week, eight days a week. I
hope you had a chance to hear the Ben Mallor
Show podcast and now you're listening to this podcast. So
we do something a little different if you're if you're
new to the party. And every Friday we like to
bring in someone who I know or I like, who
(01:10):
I want to talk to, because we don't get to
do that on the overnight show. It's, you know, late
at night, it's hard to hard to get anyone to
call in live, and we generally have you the callers,
the few people that call up who are the characters
on the show and stuff so on. On Fridays here
we like to bring somebody in and this week we
are excited to welcome in a former NBA player, someone
(01:33):
who I actually have known for you know, casually, casually.
It's not like we're you know, we're best friends. But
I've known this guy for many, many years. Uh. He
played for the Clippers when I was a radio reporter
just getting started in, you know, in that early mid
nineties period, and we became somewhat friendly in that period
(01:57):
of time. And he's gone on, had a big career,
played over ten years in the NBA's played in the
minor leagues of basketball for the Harlem Globe Trys. We're
talking about Derek Martin. He played it, you see, l
A for the Bruins and he went undrafted and the
guys had a ten He had a tenure career in
(02:17):
the wild world of basketball and has been a coach
and broadcaster. He's pretty much seen and done it all
as a basketball hobo. But I remember him as a Clipper,
and he played with Vancouver and Sacramento and Dallas and
the Toronto Raptors and Minnesota, all these teams. But I
(02:37):
I have fond members of of Derreck Martin as a
clipper and he joins us now and Derek welcome in.
I know you called in the other night to the
Overnight Show. Is great to hear from you. I've seen
you pretty active lately on Twitter and what not. So
give me the give me the inside skinny. What have
you been up to recently? Well, you know, I had
a good run as a coach of the assistant coach
(02:58):
at St. John's under Steve Lavin, assistant with Kurt Rambis
when he was at Minnesota Timberwolves. And then I was
fortunate enough to be the head coach of the Areno Bighorns,
the D League team for a Sacramento for a couple
of years. So, uh, the coaching thing was doing good.
But as my son got a little older, I wanted
to be closer to him. So me and Mitchell Butler
have started our own training business. It's Legacy West Basketball
(03:22):
dot Com. And so we've been doing that and it's
it's been taken off really good, teaching the next generation
of basketball players how to do it. So I for
those who don't know the story, like we crossed passed.
You were playing for the Clippers. You will get to
your your NBA career, but you played for the Clippers
in the nineties and I was a young punk radio
reporter in that time period and uh, you know, trying
(03:44):
to make it in radio, and I covered you when
you were playing with the Clippers, and I always appreciated Derek.
You were very kind, you know, as you would admit
those teams were not particularly great in that that time
period at the sports Arena. But but looking back at
that part of your career, what stands out back in
that like the mid nineties kind of that timeline, Oh man,
(04:07):
Just opportunity to play at home in front of my family,
my friends. Uh, like you said, the sports Arena was
not really cracking, like to stay what's sit there is
especially in support of us. So I was able to
get about thirty tickets to night and after the family
coming there, and it was just a special time for
me to be able to uh kind of take off
and establish my pro career, making my mark that I
(04:29):
can play in the NBA right there in front of
my friend family. So it was really cool. It was
really cool, and I you know, there's not a lot
I remember about going to those games, but I do
remember the night that you lit up the Utah Jazz.
I said that the other night when you called into
the show. But that was one of those I mean,
you just were I mean, I think you made a
bunch of foul shots. If I remember when you scored
you're right on forty points or something like that against
(04:50):
the gym, and that was when they asked John, Yeah,
Stockton and Malone. I mean, that was what I had.
That was great night, funny stories. I was, well, we're
just was on the team and we had been college together.
And after the first quarter, I was feeling pretty good,
laughed and turned to it. I said, I'm gonna have
thirty whatever, and I went out and had a big
(05:13):
night and it was pretty cool, Like it was on
the front of my parents, my family, my brothers and sister.
That was a really cool experience, something I always cherished. Yeah,
that was that was I remember. And yeah, as somebody
that played for the Clippers in the less than ideal
period and now they've been the last few years, they've
been one of the better teams in the NBA every
year there because it odd as just somebody that experienced
(05:35):
the Clippers at the Sports Arena, to see that the
franchise actually doesn't stink anymore. They're actually good. It's pretty
cool for me. It's really is. Uh. You know, I
told Clippers have always been seen as the little brother
in l A. And that's understandably. You know, this is
the Lakers town and that's cool. But you know, like
I said back then, we get text too, even though
(05:56):
sometimes they bounced being from Donald Thurling, but we were
eight players also, So to see the transition Mr Bomber
come in, uh, Doc Rivers there first and then now Tyler.
They're really starting to establish a good culture and a
place where free agents would like to come. So that's
really cool for me to see. I mean, I'm enjoying it.
(06:16):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Ben Maller
Show weekdays at two a m. Eastern eleven pm Pacific
on Fox Sports Radio and the I Heart Radio app. Yeah.
And as an l A guy, I mean from Long
Beach or in l A guy you put at U
C l A. And I always I get this argument.
You know, all the guys I work with their Laker apologists,
and they always like, whatever the Lakers do, they defend
(06:37):
and there's room for the Clippers, and every time the
Clippers do anything, these people get triggered and they're like
they freak out because they're jealous of the any success.
It's very annoying. Tonny man, It's it's hilarious. I laughed.
You know, my brother and sister gotten me kind of
up to date it on social media and how to
use it and everything. So I like to go on.
(06:57):
It's like you said, see all the Laker apologists and everything.
It's funny. You know, this town is big enough to
have the Lakers in the Clippers. I do think the
Clippers need to have their own building. Uh kind of
developed their own identity, and I I have even tossed
around maybe changing the name, just to kind of completely
move on from the Donald Starting era. What would you
(07:17):
call him? What would you call the Clippers there? What name?
I don't know. I haven't come up with a creative
name yet, but I will be if I do, I
will definitely submit it. Yeah no, no, it's gonna be like, uh, well,
nicknames are a very dicey subject these days. But something
we like, I like just like the Hollywood stars or
something you can play in Inglewood there they're building that
arena in Inglewood. In a few years they gonna have
(07:38):
that arena, but uh like something like l A centric
that you know, I will work on it. But anyway, listen,
I remember before I forget here, Derek, when you were
playing for the clips I was doing. I was a
reporter and then I became a talk show host. Around
that time, I was doing the Ben and Dave Show
and you called in every once in a while. That
(07:59):
I remember time we were doing a remote from from
a bar and you were driving around and you were
so cool. You showed up to hang out with us,
and that was awesome. That was that was You probably
even remember that, Derek, but you were no. I do
I remember it. I definitely remember when I, like I said,
I'm just learning about doing the social media. So when
I found out you had a show, I just started
(08:21):
to recollect all the things, like coming on your show,
going to that remote. I really enjoyed coming on your show, man,
that was really cool. So that's kind of why I
reached out to you. Just wanted to say hello and
see how you're doing and just say you congratulations on
getting happened what you have now, because I remember those days,
and I do remember that remote that I came to.
We had a good time. Yeah, it was great. We
were like shocked. We were like, wait, and an NBA
(08:44):
guys showing up to our remote, It's like weird. I mean,
I didn't expect that doing the Night Show back then.
But and I got to I mean, Derek, you have
had you must have the biggest man cave of all
the jerseys. That it's like a Dr. Seuss poem. The
places you'll go to peep well, you'll see how many
cities have you lived in as a basketball But you've
(09:04):
been all over the place. Oh, I've been all over
I was explaining to my son all the different teams
I've played for. And let's see the Clippers, Minnesota, Dallas, Toronto, Vancouver, UH, Sacramento,
UH team in Pompey, Italy. I played with the Magic
Johnson Tour teams for in Russia. I've played um for
(09:29):
the Globe Riter. So I got a chance to see
the world. A huge question just all because of the
game of basketball. So how difficult when you're when you're
a player, you bounces around. How difficult is it? I
mean we see this all the time. Guys get traded
and stuff and it's not like totally unique, but you've
had to live in all these different cities. You've got
to get doctors and all that. How how big a
(09:51):
pain in the assd is that, Derek? When you keep
changing cities and you have to you know, find a
new location all that. Uh, you know, I've kind of
gotten used to it. I kind of got used to it.
And we went down for Father's Day, me and my brother,
his kids, my son, my sister's kids, and we're all
in the hotel and they just loved it. And I said, yeah,
I'm Candida live in this hotel. Just fund all his
(10:13):
light that they said, Oh, this is great, my son,
this is great that we do this all the time. Yeah,
your dad has lived that life. So you know, it's
it's fun. I kind of enjoyed it. I kind of
enjoyed especially when I got a chance to maybe also
to uh go overseas playing Russia, playing in Italy. Uh
to see the different cultures and learned from the people
(10:35):
in that city. Uh. So it's been fun. You know.
I never saw it as a as a burden. I
saw it as an opportunity to learn and and see
something new. Yeah, and I love to find I didn't realize,
you know, I lost track of a little bit. I
didn't realize you had played with the Harlem Globe Trotters.
And I was aware of that fun fact when I
was a kid, Derek, my parents took me to see
the Harlem Globetrotters and it actually helped. I was a
(10:57):
little kid. I don't remember how old I was. I
was very smart, but I are like falling in love
with basketball with all the you know, the trick shots
and all that stuff. So when you played with when
you play with the Globe tracks, like, what was your
did you have a signature move? Did you have your
signature go to thing that you would entertain the fans with. No.
So what they had was was a team that would
(11:17):
play exhibitions against college teams like Syracuse, Michigan State, and
uh UTEP and a few other schools, and then after
the game, the real game, then the Globetriters that did
the entertaining would come in. So I played on the
team the first team that played the real exhibition games
and played against Syracuse Utah and I remember this one
(11:39):
game against Michigan State. Shannon Brown was still that was
there at the time. And he was supposed to be
the defensive stopper and I kind of really got go
and have one of those. I end up with thirty
eight and doing the course of the game. Michael's uh,
Tom millel yo that you can't carry that odd guy.
I said, hey, Loo man, you once you come out
here and try to gard me yourself for It was
(12:00):
a lot of fun. I enjoyed it. Mammy Jackson Um
did a wonderful job running that organization, and Chad Growth
was a part of it also too, So it was
definitely a great experience and definitely something I treasure. That's
pretty cool. Yeah, I did see the story the other day.
I think it was just for publicity. They said the
Harlem Globe Trotter said they wanted to be an NBA
expansion team. They wanted to be an expansion You can't
(12:22):
be the the Globe Trotters. You can't be in the
n Yeah, no, I can't be in it. They would
lose their lord. You know, they have a nitch. They
should just keep going with that Niche like you said,
they don't even know how they affect so many young kids.
He's like you said, you fell in love with the
game of basketball after going to oh you Globe Trotter
at one time. So you know, I think they should
(12:43):
just stay in that lane and and and enjoy it
and and just write it out. I agree. So and
when I told a friend of mine, I said, you know,
Derek called in and he remembered you when you played
and stuff, and he said, he said, you gotta ask
Derek about the Michael Jordan's story and so so uh
so I've been asked, I guess this goes back to
your Vancouver days, Derek, and it's a yeah, yeah, I've been.
(13:07):
It's been funny. I'm almost in the last six seven months,
I've been on tour telling that story. A few people
have asked me. And it's a lot of backdrop to it.
There was Michael's out here filming space dams, and of
course everybody knows about the tent that they built for
in the court and what have you. So he's playing
(13:27):
against mostly a lot of Urian players and he wasn't
feeling challenge. So he called up Magic and said, hey,
you know, you've got any guys that can come down
here and play, you know, local NBA guys. So he's
Magic called me, said little fill if you take a
group of guys down there. So I said, yeah, okay.
So all my guys at that time, we all grew
up together, Chris Mills, Tracy Murray, Mitchell Butler. So we
(13:49):
go down there to play. So we're waiting to come
on and play. Finally it's our game going to seven
and at six six, I come down on the wing,
act like I'm gonna shoot, and Michael jumps for the
a fake and I go by and lay it up
and I just commenced to talk, excuse me trash to
Michael for about the next minute and a half and
(14:09):
I'm telling him everything, get out of my city. This
is l A. You're not the real m J Magic,
the real m J. Just get out of here. And
everybody's just laughing. They can't believe that the little guys
talking bad to Michael even so far, to so much
that Chris Mills picked me up on my finger. Uh,
Peter dangling. He's saying, d Mark stop stop. Stop. The
(14:30):
long story short, Michael comes on like two games later.
I was like, there's no way, because it's thirty people
in here. You're supposed to be wait. He's like, this
is my im come on what I want. So he
ends up being us in next game. And now he
follows me around the next minute and a half just
talking trash to me. So that's the backdrop going into
that year. And so he called Magic is like, man,
(14:51):
who's this little guy you must be talking about? Mark? Yeah,
DMR talk trash talks. So Michael I kind of, you know,
broke a little bit of a friendship. So fast forwards
and now we're playing in Vancouver. That's a thirteen game,
uh road trip for them. You know, most back then
in the NBA, when you get to that last game,
you're just kind of trying to get home. Vancouver was
(15:12):
the last game on the schedule on that trip. So
I came down. It was about two minutes ago. I
made a lay up and got an N one walk
by the bench. I told you would beat me to
night in so many words, and so Phil looked out
heading like, all right, what you want to do. So
Michael had untied issues, you know, kind of put the
towel on his head and was kind of just you know,
(15:34):
giving up for the night. So he tied his shoes
back up, takes the towel off, checks in, and he
comes stands next to me at the foul line. I
got a pretty good picture of it. And he says,
I told you about talking trash, and I still looked
up to the the collection. Man, you're not beating me to night, buddy.
So anyone's go ahead next like ten, he having points
to beat us down the stretch and Yrus Scott was
(15:55):
guard and he was so mad at me walking ahead
a lot. If you're going to truck trash, at least
starting a guy, I said, lust here right. So it
was a funny thing. So afterwards they told the ball
He sent the ball boys over to get me. So
we just kind of sat down and talk. He's like, man,
(16:16):
you don't ever stop. I said, you put your pants
one at the time, just like me. So I'm gonna
compete and do the same thing. So he laughs that
I like that. I like that, So that's good that.
It was pretty cool. So we could. You know, we
got a little bit of a friendship. When we see
each other, we laugh and talk about it. Oh that's great. Yeah,
And I saw I did see a clip and he
(16:37):
was like he was he he had his like he
was sitting on the bench. He had a towel on
Jordan like he was out of the game, and then
he because if you he came back, and that's a
that's a great were you are? You were one of
the few that played for the Vancouver version of the Grizzlies. Also, Derek,
I mean that you played for both You played for
both Canadian teams. You're one of the few, right. I
(16:59):
didn't realize that. My brother was telling me the other day.
He's like, you realizing one of the only guys let's
played for both Canadian teams teams, And I was like,
oh wow, I didn't know that. What was it like? Now?
A lot of like younger people probably don't even remember
the Vancouver Grizzlies. It's been so long, But like, what
was it like playing basketball in Vancouver? The team has
been been in Memphis for many years now. It's it
(17:22):
was amazing that Vancouver is a very underrated city. It's
beautiful up there. The people are nice, they got great food.
I think the team, the league just they didn't wait
it out long enough. You know, basketball was new to
that region and so fans were just starting to understand
the game. But they loved it. They supported the team.
They came out and cheered and it was a good
(17:44):
city for them to move the team from Vancouver to Memphis.
I think it's really I don't know if you you know,
like Memphis barbecue and I think it's okay, But it
was nothing to like the food, uh and Vancouver and
just the whole atmosphere. Vancouver was so relaxed and really cool.
I really enjoyed it. You know, I almost wish I
could have played half of my career there because that's
(18:05):
how much I enjoyed the city and how much I
enjoyed the fans and the people up there. They really
supported the team. Be sure to catch live editions of
The Ben Miller Show week days at two am Eastern
eleven p m Pacific. Hey, I'm John Middlecoff and I
host the Three and Out podcast. Do you like football?
Do you like the NFL? Do you like the NFL draft? Quarterbacks? Coaches? Well,
(18:26):
I talked about it all on the show. I used
to work for Andy Reid as a scout. Now I
give you my unfiltered and raw opinions on everything that
goes on the NFL. And you know, we're talking college
football because of how important the draft is year round.
Listen to the three and out podcast with me John
Middlecom on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcast or
wherever you get your podcasts. Yeah, and they loved you
(18:47):
in Toronto too, right, even though I mean you're you're
a backup guy in the Raptors, but they seem to
embrace you in Toronto. Also, Yeah, I really I enjoyed that.
It's funny because now now I walked into the locker
room and I was used to be in the baby
or the middle of the road guy. I walked into
the Toronto locker room and all of a sudden, I'm
an old guy. Really quick, I'm like, whoa, everybody in
(19:09):
here is twenty two. I'm like thirty something, right, So
it was it was pretty cool because now my role
kind of switched from maybe every day player, every game
player to sort of a backup and a mentor. And
it was really cool cool. You know, developed a really
good relationship with Chris Humphries, with Jose Calderon, Chris Boss,
(19:29):
Anthony Parker to the point where we all still talked
to this day and check on each other. So it
was a really good time. And I had a chance
to play for Sam Mitchell, who I played with my
rookie year in Minnesota. So things kind of went full
circle and that was pretty cool. The circle of life.
How weird is it? By the way, Deck, I mean,
we were around the same age, and like, I don't
even it's hard to be like, I've become the old
(19:51):
guy in radio and stuff, and it's odd to me.
It's bizarre. I don't I don't feel that old. I mean,
I'm sure you don't feel real. It's just it's a
weird thing. All of a sudden, you wake up and
you're like, wait a minute, Like twenty five years of
my career has gone by. It's pretty wild. And yeah,
I'm betting you're like, well, wait a minute, what's happened here?
You know? And I got one day and I got
a little bit of a belly. I'm like, man, where
(20:13):
did this come from? It's like overnight, this thing is changed.
I'm enjoying it, Like I said, I'm enjoying the business
with Mitchell father, myself, Legacy West dot com. I'm enjoying.
It's been a lot of time with my son teaching him.
Like I said, he's playing baseball and basketball, so I
might also have a first base uh going up here?
(20:36):
Pretty soon. So it's been fun. It's been fun. I've
been enjoying things right now. Now, your son's a little guy.
Does he have the does he have the love of
sports or have you kept him off the video games yet? Derek?
Have you've been able to keep him off the video games?
He does like a few video games right now. His
thing is the wrestling. He loves wrestling, the w W
E that He's got a lot of Uh, guys and
(20:59):
every now and then we'll play basketball or football, but uh,
definitely into the sports. He enjoys it. He has a
hitting coach that he goes to once a week. Uh.
He's really embraced basketball and he has a lot of
fun with it. Uh. It's really good. And sometimes I
get emotional just watch him because he's Derek Jr. So
to see Derek Jr. Just start to embrace the love
(21:21):
of sports is really cool. Well, and you know, if
he loves wrestling, he could become a professional wrestler. There
was a guy, Derek, you know that listened to my
show back. He used to send me emails back in
the day, and he was going to wrestling school in Florida.
They have a place in Tampa and he he became
the wrestler known as uh Russef. Now he's he goes
(21:42):
by the name Mero, but he was at one point
he was a big deal in the in the w W.
He had like a tenure career under the ring name
Rusef there and then he's you know, we played we
use him on the game. I have to tell much
T when I get off. Yeah, yeah, and w W
game Russ is on there and we play with that.
(22:05):
By the way, and this will also impress your your son.
That the reason I became friends with the wrestler Russef
who's now Miro is he's a Clipper guy. He likes
the Clippers, and yeah, yeah, he's actually he's he spent
some time in southern California. I think I know he
was living in Florida listening to the show because it's syndicated,
but he he did. He likes the Clippers. So we
(22:28):
were bo So yeah, so he probably knows who you
are and probably watched you play back back when you
were playing for the team back in the day. Okay, yeah,
definitely if you ever talked to you again, definitely he's
got love for us. Absolutely, no, absolutely, I will all right,
So I want to now let's get into meat and
potatoes basketball deck. So you reached out to me. You know,
I do these crazy monologues in the middle of the night,
(22:49):
screaming and shouting and all that stuff about basketball and
what's going on. But you played in the Golden Age
for many in the nineteen nineties. Back against you mentioned
your your friendship with Michael Jordan, and you played against
John Stockton, and you know, the great teams of that era.
What is the biggest difference. You watch the NBA today
and you're you're you're teaching beast, But when you watch
(23:10):
the NBA today and the way it's played the way
it was in the night, what is the biggest thing
that stands out to you? And I'm gonna say this,
and I'm sure people would take it the wrong way,
but what the first word that comes to my mind
is soft. It's kid, It's kind of soft and and
that's okay. Um, explain why because now they have uh,
the scoring is up. Everybody likes scoring. So the league
(23:32):
was really good about trying to create what they call
freedom of motion. Freedom of movement so it's less physical
and the scores are going up. I enjoyed. I would
love to play in this this area. The pick and
roll are Oh my goodness, if I could play pick
and roll uh every time down the floor. The taste
of space right now. But the biggest difference I think
(23:54):
is just not it's not as physical as when I played.
What they go to the monitor now to review as
a flavor and one flavorant to was just a normal
foul by tars locally or Buck Williams or Xavier McDaniel
or sabonus And when I first got in the league.
So uh, it's just less physical. Yeah, and they they
(24:14):
have to review everything there. It's see, I like to
watch these games, but why do they have to review everything?
You don't have to write, you can play. You played
the game there. They did not review every single I
mean they didn't even have that at the beginning there,
and everything's reviewed. It's insane. Why absolutely it is. And
and the other thing that I think the league's amasically
just tickened up on it. I don't know how you
(24:35):
do it. I know they did have a fine and
place for it, but you gotta watch the flopping. It's
getting out of hand. It really, it's kind of getting
out of hand and it's almost uh, it's very funny
sometimes how different players can bait the reps n calls
and there's really no contact there at all. Well, even
the other night in the final, I Devin Booker, who
(24:55):
had a great game, and he he it's like they
had an anviled dropped on his head and they went
to the replay and he wasn't even like really touched.
It was. It was wild, man. I mean, it happens
all the time, absolutely, yeah. Uh. And then when you
get to the point where there actually is a foul,
you know, so then it's kind of hard to decide
between the two. So they they have to find a
(25:18):
way to kind of tighten up on that a little bit. Now.
You also there, I must bring up you got you know,
I was praising Patrick Beverley. I was praising him with
the with the clips and the way that he was
playing against the Sun. You though, you were taking a
different position on Patrick Beverley when I was praising him
for the way he was playing in the in this
(25:39):
series against Feast. What was your your opinion? Give me
your your high take here. I think my high tech
is you really have to watch how he plays. I
think he does play dirty at times. I mean, you
can just listen to what Russell Westbrook has said. He's
hurt him. I don't think the head but the head
but of Devin book another day was unintentional. I think
(25:59):
it was incinal. The found that he made on Chris
Paul coming off the screen where his legs were Chris
Paul's elevated in the air and he could have landed
on his wrist or his neck or anything like that.
Those are not basketball plays. And I think he makes
too many of the non basketball plays, uh to be
considered playing defense. You know, that's not defense. And I
(26:23):
played against the Doug Christie, the Derek Harper's, the Gary Payton,
the guys that were called so called defenders, and they
never made defensive plays like that that that he does,
uh trying to make it still or make a play
where he undercut a guy or heard a guy's knee
and now he's outspore a period of time. Uh. You know,
(26:43):
I just think that's unnecessary. So I'm not necessarily a
big fan of his the way he plays. Uh, they're
just they're just not my style. That's not my thing. Well, Derek, though,
you have to admit though, he's found a niche, right,
he's got he's got his niche. People know who he is,
and he's been kind of like a backup guy most
of his his career. But yeah, and that and that's
what he is. And uh as you can see. And
(27:05):
I think in the theories before the Senis one, the
Dallas one, Tyler couldn't play him because his skill set
didn't fit what was going on. And it's just he's
not a typical guard in my opinion of the card
that we played against in the nineties. You know that
most of the point guards, you have to be able
to run a team. You have to be able to orchestrate,
(27:27):
be an extension of the coach, make a play for
yourself and also make playce for your teammates. And I
don't see him doing that. Yeah, so let's go back
to that when you were playing against those guys in
the nineties, like John. I've heard stories about John Stockton
and like what he was like to go against and
kind of he didn't seem like he was I don't
(27:47):
know if dirty is the right word, but he was
always in your business. Shall we say any any recollection
back in those days, any John Stockton thing that pops
up in your head there when you thought, think, oh, yeah,
he was physical. He was I wouldn't say dirty, but
he was physical with you. He had bumped you, shoot
you an elbow, you know. He was uh. He would
(28:07):
get into your grill and and try to frustrate you
in a different way than what Patrick Proppli does. It
was more of a competitor, you know, just if we're
on the on the streets of Compton or l A.
This is how we play, you know. And and John
was physical and and I loved it. It It brought the
best out of me. Having a chance to play against
John Stockings And a funny story. I got a chance
(28:28):
to coach his son, David when I was the head
coach Renal Big Horns, and he and I would sitting
around and just talk about the different games I played
against your dad. And then John started coming to our game,
so I got a chance to kind of sit down
and just talk to him other than competing against him.
And it was pretty cool. It was pretty cool. And
I told him he always brought the best out of
(28:49):
me and I always wanted h He said, Hey, I
knew playing against you. I couldn't have stuff, So it
was it was a good little give and take. That's
pretty that's pretty cool. And you're still you're still kind
of coaching, right because you're doing the basketball. You've got
the thing you're doing right now. But when you were
coaching in the in the is it was it the
G League then or the D League? What was it
(29:11):
called at the time, it was it was a D League,
I was. It was just it was a couple of
years a couple of years ago. Yeah, So, like, what
was it like coaching in the in the G League?
They're like, well, you had obviously been an assistant before
and stuff, but when you're the head coach and and
all that, what was what was that like for you?
It was really good. I enjoyed it immensely because the
(29:34):
role that those guys were taking the same role that
I took to get into the NBA, you know, playing
on Magic's All Star team, playing in the cb A,
grinding it out, so I understand what they were feeling emotionally,
what they were going through, so I could relate to them.
I could have to sit down and have conversations with
him and kind of keep them positive all the time
and keep them focused on the right path. And it
(29:57):
was really cool to be in that kind of grind
with him. I really enjoyed it. Uh. It was a
lot of fun I got to teach. I had a
good assistant in Rico heinz Um who was doing great
things right now with Sacramento and the development with the
players up there. So it was it was a huge,
dude blessing to be a head coach of the Renal
(30:18):
Big Horns and a lot of fun. You got to
help some guys further their dreams. I got Marcus Williams.
I don't know if you guys remember played at U
com playing in the league for a little bit. I
got him sort I had to tell end of his
career and kind of got him playing at a level
that he could finish his career just enjoying and and happy.
And we won two division titles when I was coaching,
and we got to the playoffs, end up losing in
(30:40):
the in the second round. But it was a lot
of fun. Definitely a lot of fun. Awesome, Derek. I
I know I've kept you for a while here. I
think I've gone over a lot of times, but I
appreciate seriously and uh, continued success and I have fun
memories of interacting with you back in the day. And uh,
I'm excited that you've reached out and call any time.
(31:03):
And you know we're on late at night, so if
you can't sleep, if you've got insomnia, uh, we'll be
there and uh and I'll shoot you a message. I
appreciate it. Thanks for doing this thing. Oh definitely, absolutely.
You know I'm usually up in in the evening just relaxing,
having a bottle of a nice Chianti or Barolo. So
definitely I'll shoot you a check your call. Awesome, thank
you there, I appreciate it. Okay, thanks Mann
Host
Ben Maller
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