June 30, 2025 • 16 mins
Attorney Justin Shapiro with South Florida-based Leesfield & Partners talks about the new penalties for boating crimes and changes with regards to boater education that comes with the new state law.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey, Joel, Malcolm four w J and O dot Com,
the Florida News Network. There are over one hundred brand
new Florida laws taking effects here on July first, and
they address a wide range of topics. And today we're
going to focus on the topic of voting safety in
Lucy's Law, and we're going to talk about what sparked
(00:20):
Lucy's Law, and we're going to talk about everything that
Lucy's Law changes, a lot of that penalties for folks
who violate specific voting laws, and we are going to
talk about that with maritime attorney here in South Florida,
Justin Shapiro with Leeesfield and Partners. Thank you for joining me.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
Justin, Thank you for having me, Jill.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
All right, So, Lucy's Law, this is named after Luciana
Lucy Fernandez, and she died in a a voting crash.
And I believe that the real estate broker, George Peno,
he's still awaiting trial on this. How closely did you
have you followed Lucy's case.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
I followed it quite closely, not only ca this is
what I do for a living, but also the family
is a member of my family's church and we have
a lot of mutual friends and just I'll tell you
it's one of the most tragic cases I've seen. We've
done this at our firm for many, many years. I've
had a lot of tragic cases, and this one's astrol.
Speaker 1 (01:25):
Yeah, this was I believe it was Labor Day weekend.
I believe it was a Sunday night in twenty twenty
two and George Pino was the driver of this boat.
I believe it was his daughter's birthday party. They were
leaving and he struck a channel marker in Biscayne Bay
near Miami Dade and she was thrown. Well, they were
(01:49):
all thrown from the boat, I guess, but she was
the one stuck underneath it. This is Luciana Fernandez and
she ended up dead. Very sad, sad story. Only faced
misdemeanors and then I guess it was a year later
that more people were interviewed, more witnesses, and the State
(02:09):
Attorney's office in Miami Date said no, this is a felony.
So now he is facing felonies in this case. And
that brought about and I guess it was the family
as you mentioned that you go to church with that
and I guess some of the other families folks on
the boat. I know that there was a also a
friend of Lucy's who was permanently disabled from this accident
(02:34):
as well, that lobbied the state legislature for a couple
of years and finally got some changes. So let's talk
about Lucy's Law from the penal standpoint standpoint, what is
this change and what do voters voters now need to know?
Speaker 2 (02:53):
Sure, so, lots of saper penalties on the criminal side
of things. I think these are long overdue changes. We
have seen far too many fatalities and grievous injuries from
voting crashes over the years. As we know, Florida is
the voting capital of the world. We have more than
one million votes registered here. Lost are rented out to
(03:16):
inexperienced voters, tourists, people unfamiliar with our unique waterways. And
Melissa Andy Fernandez, the parents of Lucy Fernandez, did a
wonderful job with our legislature and bringing about some changes here.
There are safer penalties for crimes like vuy manslaughter. A
(03:37):
conviction now carries a minimum punishment of four years in prison.
Leaving the scene without rendering aids now is upgraded if
it causes death, it's a first degree felony. Serious todly
injury a second degree felony. Reckless operation that results in
serious injuries is now a third degree felony instead of
(03:57):
a misdemeanor. All statements to law enforcement are now a
second degree misdemeanor. So what you're seeing is much harsher
and siffer penalty for people who are violating the law
out on flaughter, especially in the context of injuries, and
hopefully we'll have a deterrent effect for individuals going out
(04:18):
there and understanding that this is not a lawless stone.
You know, we do not polete our waters like we
poleped our roadways because there's just so much water that
that would be impossible. And so what we see is
a lot of people go out on the water with
a mentality that this is some sort of free sanctuary
(04:39):
and it's a lawless zone. But that's not the case.
We are now going to be cracking down with much
more stiff penalties under this new law. There's also changes
in boter education. Now, voter education is mandatory if a
voter is sound guilty of a criminal or non criminal
voting infraction. We have mandatory voter education now for individuals
(05:04):
who have not been residents in Florida for at least
five years. So you would hope that the voter education
would be helpful considering that statistically over eighty percent of
all voting accidents in Florida are caused by voters with
no formal education. So I think those are positive changes.
(05:26):
The original version of the bill, loose Law, required voter
education for everyone. The legislature decided not to go that route.
There's always compromise when you're passing new laws, and so
they went about just the non resident Florida mandatory education.
(05:47):
But these are all food steps. I would have gone
a bit further, but hopefully time will tell. Hopefully these
are going to bring about supper waters for Floridians and
there on our waters now.
Speaker 1 (06:03):
So yeah, as you said, they this was I hate
to use a pun, but water down a bit, I
guess with the case of the boater head. So let
me understand this correctly. Let's say somebody's thirty years old.
They they were born in Florida, they've lived here all
their life, and now they decide for their thirtieth birthday,
they want to go out and you know, and rent
(06:25):
a boat, they don't need to take any education course whatsoever.
Speaker 2 (06:31):
That's correct. It's unfortunate. You can have zero boating experience,
go out and rent the boat tomorrow under those circumstances,
if you were born before nineteen eighty eight, no license,
no education, no training, unique warmer ways of Florida, all
kinds of dangerous currents, weather and water, and you can
(06:53):
do that just fine without any license or education. Again,
the original version of the bill would have done away
with that. I would have loved to see that the
legislature decided against that. So we do still have very
inexperienced voters and others out there on the waterway that
you know, you can't be too careful out there. And
(07:14):
I don't understand why we need a driver's license to
drive a car but not a voter's license to operate
a boat when in many ways, operating a boat is
more difficult and more dangerous where you encounter far different
conditions than you do on the roadway. So you're right
about that, Joel, and I think that needs to change
(07:36):
as well.
Speaker 1 (07:37):
And you know, we are also coming up as we're
talking about a boating you know, boating safety aspects of
this law. As far as the education standpoint, we're talking
about the tenth anniversary. Hard to believe it's been that long.
July twenty fourth, twenty fifteen, it will be ten years
since the two fourteen year old boys from the Jupiter
to Questa area, Austin Stefanos and Perry Cohen. They left
(08:00):
the Jupiter Inlet in a nineteen foot boat. The boat
later found capsized. Their bodies were never recovered. This was
a story justin I'm sitting here in a westbom Beach newsroom,
and this was a huge story, not only right after
this happened, but for the next couple of years, as
there were new developments and whatnot. So, you know, you
(08:22):
recall that situation, correct, Yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:26):
Terribly tragic case. It was on all of our minds
at the time, a horrible tragedy that these two young
men lost their lives under these circumstances.
Speaker 1 (08:37):
So let me ask you this, because there is boating
education a part of this new law, Lucy's Law, would
anything that's part of this law have maybe resulted in
the Austin and Perry situation not occurring.
Speaker 2 (08:56):
No, So, at the time Austin and Perry were hired
because they were born after nineteen eighty eight, they were
required to have a voter Education safety course completed. And
my understanding is they did have that, and so there
are no changes there. And let me also say the
voter Safety ID card and the education provided is not
(09:19):
the most thorough and impressive education. I think that there
need to be some changes to that. I think that
needs to be more thorough and deeper so that people
have a better understanding of safe practices on the water.
My concern with the Austin and Perry case is that
these were two fourteen year old boys who do not
(09:39):
have the judgment and the life experience of adults, and
they're going out on the water. They are making decisions
about bad weather and water conditions and navigating through these
unique waters in Florida with fourteen years of life experience.
I think the leglegislature needs to look at that as well,
(10:01):
because I can't understand how a sixteen year old you
need to be sixteen to drive a car, but you
need to be fourteen to operate a boat. I believe
boats are far more dangerous, they're more unique, The conditions
that you encounter are potentially far more dangerous and so
I think fourteen is far too young to be operating
(10:24):
a boat without an adult.
Speaker 1 (10:27):
So fourteen is the minimum under state law age to
be operating without an adult. Yes, so, and these again,
these two boys were fourteen, but as you said, they
would have been required and you believe they did two
have taken a course.
Speaker 2 (10:47):
Yeah, the reports are that they did have the course,
and so at fourteen years old, and with the boater
safety course under their belt, they were well within their
rights to go and take that boat out in poor
weather and water conditions at the time. There was nothing
improper about what they were doing. Legally, in my opinion,
(11:07):
there was a lot improper about it. But that's the
legislature to decide.
Speaker 1 (11:11):
So if you were, if you were one of their parents,
you would not have allowed that.
Speaker 2 (11:17):
Well, I don't want to be in a position of judgment.
I don't know them individually. I think on a more
general level, I would not like to see a fourteen
year old take his buddy out on the boat without
an adult, all right, and I believe the law should
I don't believe the law should allow that, Joel.
Speaker 1 (11:37):
So how does something like that change? I mean, who
would have to you would have thought maybe one of
these families from these two boys, you know, would have
been lobbying the legislature. I mean, if they were doing that,
you'd assume something would have come up ten years, ten
years in the making at this point. So who takes
that mantle.
Speaker 2 (11:55):
Well, there's a lot that goes into changes to the law.
You have to have a legislator take up the cause.
And obviously we elect these people to decide what's best
for us and our government. And so if there is
enough attention on an issue like this, like there was
with Lucy's law, then you'll have a legislator or legislators
(12:17):
get together and sponsor a bill and write a bill,
and from there it would have to have enough support
to be passed. I don't know of any effort to
raise the age from fourteen, but I'll tell you, as
an individual who sees a whole lot of tragedy out
on the water doing what we do, representing people who
are catastrophically hurt and killed in these voting crashes, it's
(12:40):
long overdue and it needs to happen, you know.
Speaker 1 (12:43):
And going back to the Lucy Fernandez situation, you know,
we mentioned the Dural real estate broker George Pino, who
was driving this vessel, now faces felonies. One felony that
he potentially could have faced possibly is BUI voting under
(13:05):
the influence, because he refused a breathalyzer. There's a reason
that they wanted to do a breathalyzer, right.
Speaker 2 (13:13):
Of course, and there was a lot of criticism at
the time as to how the Florida Fish and Wildlife
Conservation Commission handled that investigation. There was a refusal of
a breathalyzer. Usually there are some assumptions that go along
with the refusal like that. Not to suggest that I
know anything more than the public about mister Pino under
(13:36):
those circumstances, but yes, voting under the influence carries much
steeper charges and punishment under criminal law, as it should.
Speaker 1 (13:45):
It sounds to me like you're somebody who would recommend
voting courses for anybody. Now, again, we know that born
after eighty eight or would you would be required to
do that. But if you are somebody who who's say,
in your forties, and you've just never taken a boat out,
and that is something that is not under state law,
(14:08):
I believe if I'm understanding correctly, because they were born
prior to eighty eight. Is that something you would recommend,
And if so, how would somebody find out how to
do a course?
Speaker 2 (14:20):
Yeah? So highly recommended. Again, I think that voting can
be extraordinarily dangerous from what I've seen, you know, and
I'm in the trenches of this stuff, you know, when
there's a voting fatality that I'm responsible for, there's a
lot of investigation, a lot of interviews, speaking to law enforcement,
speaking to lawmakers, and I don't believe an individual is
(14:45):
equipped to operate a vessel out in the open waters
with the unique characteristics and water conditions that we see
in Florida without some sort of training, and the law
to this day allows for that if you were born
after nineteen eighty eight, I strongly disagree with that being
in the law. Now, if you were to voluntarily pursue
(15:07):
a voting course and educate yourself, of course I would
applaud that. I would encourage that, and there are many
ways to do that, just going online finding resources. Both
US is one of the larger resources throughout Florida and
many other states offering these courses. There very inexpensive. I
(15:27):
recommend it for all voters and for any individuals who
are allowing their children or family members to vote or
to use their vote, I would recommend that they become
educated and certified as well.
Speaker 1 (15:39):
All right, well, I appreciate you taking the time to
join us about this very important topic. And again, Lucy's
Law one of over one hundred new state laws passed
during this year's legislative session, and it'll take effect here
July first, so appreciate it. Once again. Justin Shapiro, maritime
attorney with South Flow Databased, Leesfield and Partners. Thanks for
(16:02):
coming on with me.
Speaker 2 (16:03):
Thank you for having me. Joe
Hey, Joel, Malcolm four w J and O dot Com,
the Florida News Network. There are over one hundred brand
new Florida laws taking effects here on July first, and
they address a wide range of topics. And today we're
going to focus on the topic of voting safety in
Lucy's Law, and we're going to talk about what sparked
(00:20):
Lucy's Law, and we're going to talk about everything that
Lucy's Law changes, a lot of that penalties for folks
who violate specific voting laws, and we are going to
talk about that with maritime attorney here in South Florida,
Justin Shapiro with Leeesfield and Partners. Thank you for joining me.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
Justin, Thank you for having me, Jill.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
All right, So, Lucy's Law, this is named after Luciana
Lucy Fernandez, and she died in a a voting crash.
And I believe that the real estate broker, George Peno,
he's still awaiting trial on this. How closely did you
have you followed Lucy's case.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
I followed it quite closely, not only ca this is
what I do for a living, but also the family
is a member of my family's church and we have
a lot of mutual friends and just I'll tell you
it's one of the most tragic cases I've seen. We've
done this at our firm for many, many years. I've
had a lot of tragic cases, and this one's astrol.
Speaker 1 (01:25):
Yeah, this was I believe it was Labor Day weekend.
I believe it was a Sunday night in twenty twenty
two and George Pino was the driver of this boat.
I believe it was his daughter's birthday party. They were
leaving and he struck a channel marker in Biscayne Bay
near Miami Dade and she was thrown. Well, they were
(01:49):
all thrown from the boat, I guess, but she was
the one stuck underneath it. This is Luciana Fernandez and
she ended up dead. Very sad, sad story. Only faced
misdemeanors and then I guess it was a year later
that more people were interviewed, more witnesses, and the State
(02:09):
Attorney's office in Miami Date said no, this is a felony.
So now he is facing felonies in this case. And
that brought about and I guess it was the family
as you mentioned that you go to church with that
and I guess some of the other families folks on
the boat. I know that there was a also a
friend of Lucy's who was permanently disabled from this accident
(02:34):
as well, that lobbied the state legislature for a couple
of years and finally got some changes. So let's talk
about Lucy's Law from the penal standpoint standpoint, what is
this change and what do voters voters now need to know?
Speaker 2 (02:53):
Sure, so, lots of saper penalties on the criminal side
of things. I think these are long overdue changes. We
have seen far too many fatalities and grievous injuries from
voting crashes over the years. As we know, Florida is
the voting capital of the world. We have more than
one million votes registered here. Lost are rented out to
(03:16):
inexperienced voters, tourists, people unfamiliar with our unique waterways. And
Melissa Andy Fernandez, the parents of Lucy Fernandez, did a
wonderful job with our legislature and bringing about some changes here.
There are safer penalties for crimes like vuy manslaughter. A
(03:37):
conviction now carries a minimum punishment of four years in prison.
Leaving the scene without rendering aids now is upgraded if
it causes death, it's a first degree felony. Serious todly
injury a second degree felony. Reckless operation that results in
serious injuries is now a third degree felony instead of
(03:57):
a misdemeanor. All statements to law enforcement are now a
second degree misdemeanor. So what you're seeing is much harsher
and siffer penalty for people who are violating the law
out on flaughter, especially in the context of injuries, and
hopefully we'll have a deterrent effect for individuals going out
(04:18):
there and understanding that this is not a lawless stone.
You know, we do not polete our waters like we
poleped our roadways because there's just so much water that
that would be impossible. And so what we see is
a lot of people go out on the water with
a mentality that this is some sort of free sanctuary
(04:39):
and it's a lawless zone. But that's not the case.
We are now going to be cracking down with much
more stiff penalties under this new law. There's also changes
in boter education. Now, voter education is mandatory if a
voter is sound guilty of a criminal or non criminal
voting infraction. We have mandatory voter education now for individuals
(05:04):
who have not been residents in Florida for at least
five years. So you would hope that the voter education
would be helpful considering that statistically over eighty percent of
all voting accidents in Florida are caused by voters with
no formal education. So I think those are positive changes.
(05:26):
The original version of the bill, loose Law, required voter
education for everyone. The legislature decided not to go that route.
There's always compromise when you're passing new laws, and so
they went about just the non resident Florida mandatory education.
(05:47):
But these are all food steps. I would have gone
a bit further, but hopefully time will tell. Hopefully these
are going to bring about supper waters for Floridians and
there on our waters now.
Speaker 1 (06:03):
So yeah, as you said, they this was I hate
to use a pun, but water down a bit, I
guess with the case of the boater head. So let
me understand this correctly. Let's say somebody's thirty years old.
They they were born in Florida, they've lived here all
their life, and now they decide for their thirtieth birthday,
they want to go out and you know, and rent
(06:25):
a boat, they don't need to take any education course whatsoever.
Speaker 2 (06:31):
That's correct. It's unfortunate. You can have zero boating experience,
go out and rent the boat tomorrow under those circumstances,
if you were born before nineteen eighty eight, no license,
no education, no training, unique warmer ways of Florida, all
kinds of dangerous currents, weather and water, and you can
(06:53):
do that just fine without any license or education. Again,
the original version of the bill would have done away
with that. I would have loved to see that the
legislature decided against that. So we do still have very
inexperienced voters and others out there on the waterway that
you know, you can't be too careful out there. And
(07:14):
I don't understand why we need a driver's license to
drive a car but not a voter's license to operate
a boat when in many ways, operating a boat is
more difficult and more dangerous where you encounter far different
conditions than you do on the roadway. So you're right
about that, Joel, and I think that needs to change
(07:36):
as well.
Speaker 1 (07:37):
And you know, we are also coming up as we're
talking about a boating you know, boating safety aspects of
this law. As far as the education standpoint, we're talking
about the tenth anniversary. Hard to believe it's been that long.
July twenty fourth, twenty fifteen, it will be ten years
since the two fourteen year old boys from the Jupiter
to Questa area, Austin Stefanos and Perry Cohen. They left
(08:00):
the Jupiter Inlet in a nineteen foot boat. The boat
later found capsized. Their bodies were never recovered. This was
a story justin I'm sitting here in a westbom Beach newsroom,
and this was a huge story, not only right after
this happened, but for the next couple of years, as
there were new developments and whatnot. So, you know, you
(08:22):
recall that situation, correct, Yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:26):
Terribly tragic case. It was on all of our minds
at the time, a horrible tragedy that these two young
men lost their lives under these circumstances.
Speaker 1 (08:37):
So let me ask you this, because there is boating
education a part of this new law, Lucy's Law, would
anything that's part of this law have maybe resulted in
the Austin and Perry situation not occurring.
Speaker 2 (08:56):
No, So, at the time Austin and Perry were hired
because they were born after nineteen eighty eight, they were
required to have a voter Education safety course completed. And
my understanding is they did have that, and so there
are no changes there. And let me also say the
voter Safety ID card and the education provided is not
(09:19):
the most thorough and impressive education. I think that there
need to be some changes to that. I think that
needs to be more thorough and deeper so that people
have a better understanding of safe practices on the water.
My concern with the Austin and Perry case is that
these were two fourteen year old boys who do not
(09:39):
have the judgment and the life experience of adults, and
they're going out on the water. They are making decisions
about bad weather and water conditions and navigating through these
unique waters in Florida with fourteen years of life experience.
I think the leglegislature needs to look at that as well,
(10:01):
because I can't understand how a sixteen year old you
need to be sixteen to drive a car, but you
need to be fourteen to operate a boat. I believe
boats are far more dangerous, they're more unique, The conditions
that you encounter are potentially far more dangerous and so
I think fourteen is far too young to be operating
(10:24):
a boat without an adult.
Speaker 1 (10:27):
So fourteen is the minimum under state law age to
be operating without an adult. Yes, so, and these again,
these two boys were fourteen, but as you said, they
would have been required and you believe they did two
have taken a course.
Speaker 2 (10:47):
Yeah, the reports are that they did have the course,
and so at fourteen years old, and with the boater
safety course under their belt, they were well within their
rights to go and take that boat out in poor
weather and water conditions at the time. There was nothing
improper about what they were doing. Legally, in my opinion,
(11:07):
there was a lot improper about it. But that's the
legislature to decide.
Speaker 1 (11:11):
So if you were, if you were one of their parents,
you would not have allowed that.
Speaker 2 (11:17):
Well, I don't want to be in a position of judgment.
I don't know them individually. I think on a more
general level, I would not like to see a fourteen
year old take his buddy out on the boat without
an adult, all right, and I believe the law should
I don't believe the law should allow that, Joel.
Speaker 1 (11:37):
So how does something like that change? I mean, who
would have to you would have thought maybe one of
these families from these two boys, you know, would have
been lobbying the legislature. I mean, if they were doing that,
you'd assume something would have come up ten years, ten
years in the making at this point. So who takes
that mantle.
Speaker 2 (11:55):
Well, there's a lot that goes into changes to the law.
You have to have a legislator take up the cause.
And obviously we elect these people to decide what's best
for us and our government. And so if there is
enough attention on an issue like this, like there was
with Lucy's law, then you'll have a legislator or legislators
(12:17):
get together and sponsor a bill and write a bill,
and from there it would have to have enough support
to be passed. I don't know of any effort to
raise the age from fourteen, but I'll tell you, as
an individual who sees a whole lot of tragedy out
on the water doing what we do, representing people who
are catastrophically hurt and killed in these voting crashes, it's
(12:40):
long overdue and it needs to happen, you know.
Speaker 1 (12:43):
And going back to the Lucy Fernandez situation, you know,
we mentioned the Dural real estate broker George Pino, who
was driving this vessel, now faces felonies. One felony that
he potentially could have faced possibly is BUI voting under
(13:05):
the influence, because he refused a breathalyzer. There's a reason
that they wanted to do a breathalyzer, right.
Speaker 2 (13:13):
Of course, and there was a lot of criticism at
the time as to how the Florida Fish and Wildlife
Conservation Commission handled that investigation. There was a refusal of
a breathalyzer. Usually there are some assumptions that go along
with the refusal like that. Not to suggest that I
know anything more than the public about mister Pino under
(13:36):
those circumstances, but yes, voting under the influence carries much
steeper charges and punishment under criminal law, as it should.
Speaker 1 (13:45):
It sounds to me like you're somebody who would recommend
voting courses for anybody. Now, again, we know that born
after eighty eight or would you would be required to
do that. But if you are somebody who who's say,
in your forties, and you've just never taken a boat out,
and that is something that is not under state law,
(14:08):
I believe if I'm understanding correctly, because they were born
prior to eighty eight. Is that something you would recommend,
And if so, how would somebody find out how to
do a course?
Speaker 2 (14:20):
Yeah? So highly recommended. Again, I think that voting can
be extraordinarily dangerous from what I've seen, you know, and
I'm in the trenches of this stuff, you know, when
there's a voting fatality that I'm responsible for, there's a
lot of investigation, a lot of interviews, speaking to law enforcement,
speaking to lawmakers, and I don't believe an individual is
(14:45):
equipped to operate a vessel out in the open waters
with the unique characteristics and water conditions that we see
in Florida without some sort of training, and the law
to this day allows for that if you were born
after nineteen eighty eight, I strongly disagree with that being
in the law. Now, if you were to voluntarily pursue
(15:07):
a voting course and educate yourself, of course I would
applaud that. I would encourage that, and there are many
ways to do that, just going online finding resources. Both
US is one of the larger resources throughout Florida and
many other states offering these courses. There very inexpensive. I
(15:27):
recommend it for all voters and for any individuals who
are allowing their children or family members to vote or
to use their vote, I would recommend that they become
educated and certified as well.
Speaker 1 (15:39):
All right, well, I appreciate you taking the time to
join us about this very important topic. And again, Lucy's
Law one of over one hundred new state laws passed
during this year's legislative session, and it'll take effect here
July first, so appreciate it. Once again. Justin Shapiro, maritime
attorney with South Flow Databased, Leesfield and Partners. Thanks for
(16:02):
coming on with me.
Speaker 2 (16:03):
Thank you for having me. Joe
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Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
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If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.