Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Did morning from South Dakota. It's left gonna blame jd Vance.
Did everyone have a great day?
Speaker 2 (00:08):
I thought about that. Jd Vance. Did they shake hands
or not shake hands?
Speaker 3 (00:13):
I don't know, but he was there.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
He was there, that's right. And jd Vance had his
rug rat. Now I don't know the rug rats were
in the audience, the papal audience. But the rug rats,
you know they're they're known for spreading germs. So speaking
of germs, now that I've touched that stupid thing, I
don't really think.
Speaker 4 (00:30):
That gets the Clorox wife or something.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
Yeah, I need to like clean it off. So Dragon
and I have a moral well maybe it's a moral dilemma.
Speaker 1 (00:40):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
So Dragon tells me. And why he waits until five
seconds before the program starts.
Speaker 4 (00:49):
I don't didn't have time to look it up until
five seconds.
Speaker 3 (00:52):
Before the program.
Speaker 4 (00:53):
Okay, so the dollar it's hard to believe, but I
actually work around here.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
Man, we'll touch you this morning, are we?
Speaker 4 (01:04):
So? Just?
Speaker 2 (01:07):
I mean literally before just right before the show starts.
Speaker 1 (01:10):
He throws this moral dilemma at me.
Speaker 3 (01:15):
What do I do?
Speaker 1 (01:17):
Well? My reaction was which I find interesting.
Speaker 4 (01:20):
Because okay, correction correction. My question was not what do
I do? My question was who do I come?
Speaker 1 (01:29):
How do you do it?
Speaker 4 (01:29):
Because there was no question in my mind that I
needed to turn this in or I need to fill
But when you.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
First told me, there was no question in my mind
it's not worth it. Just keep it, forget about it.
Speaker 3 (01:42):
It's so here until I looked it up again.
Speaker 1 (01:45):
You looked it up.
Speaker 2 (01:45):
And then what I find interesting is now that we
know a dollar amount, is it still a moral question
or not?
Speaker 3 (01:55):
Oh, I still turn it in.
Speaker 1 (01:57):
If let's say it was one tenth of what is
on there right now.
Speaker 4 (02:03):
Then I just probably throw it away.
Speaker 1 (02:09):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (02:09):
Then let's say it was it was enough for you
to taco bell for lunch, it was seven.
Speaker 3 (02:14):
Eight bucks, then I still seven ten dollars.
Speaker 1 (02:20):
Ten, there's ten dollars.
Speaker 4 (02:21):
If there were ten dollars on it. I think it
may also determine as to what the starting amount was.
Speaker 2 (02:30):
So real quick, because it's just making differ what the
starting amount was because it's only as good as the
current amount.
Speaker 4 (02:35):
I'm sure we're confusing people. Let's start.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
I want to I want people wondering what you.
Speaker 4 (02:40):
Want on around the bush forever.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
No I'm going to be around the bush for everybody.
I want to say, I want to start shut up,
I want to set I'm want to set up the
moral dilemma. The moral dilemma is is a dollar amount?
So now we'll back up. So Dragon tells me I
found a gift card in the parking lot. My immediate
reaction is, oh, well, just you know, yeah, so so
(03:02):
I don't care. Then he describes it to me and
then he brings it in to show it to me
and I and I actually touch it, and now that
I've touched it, I regret touching it.
Speaker 3 (03:10):
It's very beat up.
Speaker 4 (03:12):
It has been run over multiple times because, like I said,
I found it in the parking lot.
Speaker 2 (03:16):
You found it out by where you park, correct, So
it wasn't like it's It was on the back door somewhere.
Speaker 4 (03:22):
Correct in the parking lot, on the asphalt. And it's
been run over. And I highly doubt that the magnetic
strip will ever work again.
Speaker 2 (03:29):
Right, Someone will have to get a replacement card for that.
Now where based on where you park, there are like
when I'm in here on Saturday, there are people walking
through that through that area, uh not, they get off
the grass and they walk through the parking lot to
shortcut to go over to wherever they're going over here
there is there are the condos that are here. To
(03:51):
our north, there's a green belt over to the west. Yeah,
there's there there. There are two companies in this building,
plus the management of the company of the building and
the owners of the building. There are even on Saturdays
when I come in, there are strange cars here. In fact,
(04:12):
it was there was a car that when I pulled
in Saturday, in part, I waited for a second because
they were circling the drive, and I thought, well, that's odd.
I'm not going to just jump out of the car.
What are they doing circling the drive? So there's traffic
in and out.
Speaker 1 (04:26):
So he comes in.
Speaker 2 (04:27):
He hands me this gift card. I might not tell you,
but you know it's a gift card like you might
go buy a King Supers right exactly, And and he
hands it to me, and I realize, this thing's been
beat to hell. This thing has been out in that
parking lot, or who knows. It may started in the
parking lot. This is my point. It may started in
(04:47):
the parking lot over in the condos. It may have
started over on the green Belt.
Speaker 4 (04:53):
It made the parking lot from the next door next door.
Speaker 2 (04:57):
Because we had a strong we had strong southerly winds,
so it could have it could have been from anywhere.
Speaker 4 (05:02):
And it definitely looks like it has been in our
parking lot for.
Speaker 3 (05:06):
At least the weekend.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
Oh, I think longer than the weekend, because I was
here Saturday and it was, uh, it was.
Speaker 1 (05:16):
It was not.
Speaker 3 (05:17):
First of all, there were brainy snowy Schwitz.
Speaker 2 (05:21):
A little bit. But based on where that card was
what I noticed because this Saturday I drove through the
back parking lots. I had dumb some stuff in the dumpster.
There was nobody here. You know, usually there's four or
five cars out there, right, Usually Willie Bee's here, there's
somebody here. There was nobody here Saturday. So that's been
(05:44):
there longer than this weekend. In my opinion, based on
the condition of the gift card, it's it's warped, it's
covered with sand and dirt and snow. It's some of them,
it's numbers are getting the front's beginning to wear off.
Speaker 1 (06:02):
It's everything.
Speaker 2 (06:04):
So Dragon says, who do I notify that I found
this gift card?
Speaker 3 (06:08):
We can find the real owner yes.
Speaker 2 (06:10):
And my first reaction was, oh, if it's a gift card,
it's got you know, ten bucks on a water, who cares?
It's not worth your time and effort. Just you know,
go use it somewhere, see if the stripe works or
just whatever. Nobody's going to care. And I'm from my
personal perspective. If I lost a gift card that had
I would say even ten or fifteen dollars on it,
(06:32):
I wouldn't.
Speaker 3 (06:32):
It's gone gone. Who cares fifteen bucks?
Speaker 1 (06:35):
Yeah? Yeah, So so that was my advice to drag
and he goes.
Speaker 4 (06:40):
But the dollar amount, the dollar amount it started with,
and then the dollar amount that it's got left.
Speaker 2 (06:46):
And you can see that by putting the number in correct. Yeah,
you didn't ask for a zip code or anything.
Speaker 4 (06:50):
No, it just wants the card information. So it wanted
the number of plus umber security code they valid through date,
and then the security code. So I put all that
in information in and the dollar amount left and the
dollar amount that it started with. Shocking to me. Yeah,
so somebody would want this back.
Speaker 2 (07:14):
The question then is who do we go to? And
I think you go to Tepper, okay, because Tepper can
that that's our technically our program.
Speaker 3 (07:24):
Well he's technically your boss, right, my direct boss, your
direct boss.
Speaker 2 (07:28):
So you go to him because he could send an
all email, all hands email that just says, can you
identify the card by its color, original dollar amount, maybe
somewhere near what you think the current balance is something,
because anybody can guess visa a MasterCard and your fifty
(07:49):
to fifty chance that you got it right. And if
that's the case, if I see that email and it
just says, hey, tell me you know what, I'll just
claim it since I now know numbers.
Speaker 3 (08:00):
Fifty bucks and MasterCard.
Speaker 2 (08:02):
Yeah yeah, yeah, I'll dis claim it. So the question
is does Dragon keep it or does Dragon just see
if they can identify.
Speaker 4 (08:13):
It and I can see that the last purchase on it,
because when you type in all that information into the website,
it does say the last purchase was on the fourth.
Speaker 1 (08:22):
Oh my gosh, a while, that's seventeen days ago.
Speaker 4 (08:27):
Huh.
Speaker 2 (08:30):
We're getting close to three weeks, which goes back to
my point about how long that thing's been floating around
disappeared and who knows where it came from. Considering the
weather we've had, it really could have come from any
place around here, so you make here. Here's my answer,
(08:50):
although I still say part of me says, I just
keep it. Who cares? You make a good faith effort.
Have somebody. They've got twenty four hours to claim it.
And because you know people need to read the you
should read your work email at least once a day,
and then if nobody claims it by tomorrow, you just
(09:12):
keep it.
Speaker 4 (09:13):
From the text line, Michael, gift cards should be treated
as cash. In fact, they usually say that old one
all beat up like fine is like finding cash on
the ground in the old days, losers, weepers, dragons keeper.
Speaker 2 (09:26):
Yeah see, and that's and that's kind of my I
still go. The only thing that's caused me any reservation.
Speaker 1 (09:32):
Is the dollar amount. Right, but now that you've told me.
Speaker 2 (09:36):
The last purchase was, which which not necessarily when they
lost it, correct, But that's the last time they used it,
so it's not like they're using this thing, you know,
on a regular basis. Yeah, yeah, yeah, see my my,
even with even knowing the dollar amount, if if it
(09:58):
makes you feel better, I would say he asked Temper
to send. In fact, I would tell Temper how how
to word the email?
Speaker 3 (10:06):
Okay, yeah, yeah, I mean in the.
Speaker 2 (10:11):
Day, he'll say, I'm not saying you'd say this, but
you'll say, well, oh that's mine. It's a it's a
you know, it's an American Express gift card. It's it's
it's kind of goldish, and and there was like, you know,
X number of dollars left on it, or so.
Speaker 3 (10:25):
The Travelers checks.
Speaker 4 (10:28):
Way back in the day, I would have gone to
Corey at the front desk and say, hey, can you
plan please send to Denver all and you know, see
if anybody has knows anything about this, you know.
Speaker 3 (10:38):
But I just.
Speaker 5 (10:39):
Say, happy Easter, you know you you you know, as
the Pope was ascending to heaven, the Pope draft off
dropped off a gift card for you, simply because he,
you know, he was looking for some redbeard somewhere to
give a gift card to him.
Speaker 2 (10:57):
And I would say, just uh, take it. But I
guess you're you're a better person than I am.
Speaker 3 (11:05):
I can't. I can't just disappear this this card.
Speaker 2 (11:09):
Which gets to my hope which I find fascinating about this.
If it if it was now we're not talking about
one thousand dollars on this card, but if this card
had I'd say even fifty.
Speaker 1 (11:26):
Dollars on it.
Speaker 2 (11:28):
Yeah, And fifty dollars means it hasn't been used, I
would say, because to have a you know, an even
balance like that, I would say, nobody's used it, and
they haven't used it for whatever.
Speaker 1 (11:41):
Maybe the issue you know, do you know what the
last transaction was?
Speaker 4 (11:45):
Yes, it does tell me what it was?
Speaker 3 (11:49):
Yes, and when? And how much was that?
Speaker 1 (11:52):
And how much was that dollar amount?
Speaker 3 (11:53):
Two dollars?
Speaker 2 (11:54):
Two dollars, Yes, So they drove in McDonald's or something.
Are they stopped at?
Speaker 4 (11:59):
Not?
Speaker 1 (11:59):
I don't anything for two bucks in the Starbucks.
Speaker 2 (12:01):
They slapped at the convenience stores, or they used it
maybe downstairs in the vending machine, could have been yeah,
something in the vending machine. So the interesting question that
the thing I find interesting about this is if it
had been and I'm thinking around fifty dollars or less,
I'd just be like dragging them now, just forget it,
(12:22):
just keeping No, it's so beat up.
Speaker 4 (12:24):
Who cares some more or less twenty bucks or less.
But you're at twenty bucks or let yeah, I'm at
fifty bucks. Us, what are you at?
Speaker 1 (12:33):
Where are you? And what do you think? Three? Three
one zero three.
Speaker 2 (12:38):
Let me remind you that because Capitalist left up his
his text line the other day and a couple of
people sent texts to me over on Caples's and martinez
text line, we have our own separate text line three
three one zero three three three one zero three. Keyword
Mike or Michael one or the other. Either one doesn't
(12:59):
make any difference. What would you do? Would you keep
it or would you go to the effort to try
to find the owner?
Speaker 4 (13:08):
Turn the card in with all the identifying information that
you found out about. If somebody lost it, then they
can come claim it and they should be able to
responsibly attach their use to what you know about the
most recent usage in dollar amounts. Then if after X
days nobody claims it, it's yours and you've done.
Speaker 3 (13:28):
The right thing this one.
Speaker 4 (13:31):
I kind of like to just give it to charity. Yeah,
fighters keepers.
Speaker 2 (13:37):
But to my point ninety five oh four, how do
you even know the gift card comes from the iHeartMedia population.
You could have come from an outside source, considering the
weather and other consideration. And that's my point, and I
guess you'll find that out. If nobody claims it, then
you know it's.
Speaker 4 (13:52):
Yours yeah, there is a parking structure. There's a covered
parking area for the other company in the building, for.
Speaker 1 (14:02):
For the for the for the more beautiful people.
Speaker 3 (14:04):
Correct.
Speaker 4 (14:04):
Yeah, but who's to say they have to use that.
They don't have to use that parking area. They can
watch they all use it. Oh, I'm sure because it's
cover parking. I wouldn't use cover parking. If you could
use cover parking, especially over the weekend when it was
all snowy and gross, or in.
Speaker 1 (14:18):
The summer when the sun's out just going to be hot.
Speaker 3 (14:20):
But they don't have to park there. They could park,
you know where a Sleebs park.
Speaker 2 (14:26):
Where a Sleebs park, because you remember they built that
parking then they put that structure in and they had
to send out an all company email. Hey, that is
uh and it's so funny because it's not for you,
you low lives. That's that's for the new company down
on the second floor. So do not use that, you
know it. It's like really a really nasty kind of email.
Speaker 3 (14:48):
Pultiple of them. If I do recall, stay away from there.
Park in the front circle.
Speaker 2 (14:54):
Right, Oh, which everybody does now everybody parks in the
front circle. Oh my God, it's so funny. In fact,
one person who sent an email about never parking in
the front circle always parks at least one or two
cars right next to me in the front circle. And
(15:15):
I just parked in the front circle because it's easier
for me to get in with my diet cokes and stuff.
So there's the moral dilemma of today. Oh here's another one.
Michael and Dragon, irregardless in quotes. I love that, I
love this audience, irregardless of the dollar amount. The rule
I always tell the kids is if you find it
(15:36):
on public property, then it's fair game. But if you
find it on private property, goes to the property owners discretion.
Well that's really a that's private property, but it's a
public parking.
Speaker 3 (15:48):
Area, right, Yeah, that's a little gray area right there.
Speaker 1 (15:50):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:54):
Michael Larson College Park area of DC, nineteen eighty nine,
found a fifty dollars bill in front of a hairstyling salon.
Speaker 1 (16:00):
Salon. Let the owner know.
Speaker 2 (16:02):
I gave my phone number and staid if I didn't
hear within forty eight hours, I was going to keep it.
Time to move along, now, yep, yeah, all right.
Speaker 4 (16:11):
If you lose a gift card, you lost cash.
Speaker 3 (16:13):
It's the loser's loss.
Speaker 4 (16:18):
But you're gonna you're you're I'm still I'm going after
this conversation and after thinking about it, I am going
to tell Tepper to send.
Speaker 3 (16:27):
A dem roll.
Speaker 2 (16:28):
You're you're amazing.
Speaker 4 (16:31):
I'm not going to give it to Tepper and say, hey,
if anybody comes to you, I'm going to keep on doing.
Speaker 2 (16:37):
Oh, then you keep possession of it. Yes, you get
possession of yeah. Yeah, all right, let's get started. I'm
not going to do it right now, but i want
to talk about for a moment about and we'll carry
it over into the next break. Procedural due process procedural
(17:00):
amendment guarantees everyone the right to do process and people
in this people who are in the territorial jurisdiction of
the United States. In other words, you are you are
on American soil, whether you're here as a tourist or
an illegal alien or an American citizen, you are entitled
(17:25):
if you find yourself embroiled in a civil controversy. Because
due process applies to civil cases as much as it
applies to criminal cases, there are certain procedures that the
court uses to guarantee that everyone gets their fair chance,
(17:45):
gets a fair trial, gets the opportunity to be heard,
and there are rules of evidence. There are rules of
civil procedure, there are rules of criminal procedure, all of
which establishes the process by which a case civil or
criminal is heard by a court. There's also substantive due process,
(18:09):
but we're not going to deal with that because everything
you're hearing about kil Mar Abregeo Garcia Garcia, the Al
Salvadoran who is now in a luxury hotel of some
sort luxury prison in Al Salvador, has to do with
procedural due process.
Speaker 1 (18:29):
And I explained that.
Speaker 2 (18:30):
To the National audience on Saturday and received an email
that just irritates the fire out of it. So we're
going to walk through procedural due process and what you
need to understand.
Speaker 6 (18:43):
Hey, guys, that gift card, it's mine. I just happened
to be over in your parking lot this weekend. I'm
part of a PI private investigators company and we were
hired to find out who was dumping their personal stuff
in the company's dumpster. So I'll get in touch with
(19:04):
you later about my gift card.
Speaker 3 (19:06):
Thanks by what a huge weight off my shoulders.
Speaker 2 (19:09):
Yeah, let's you feel better about that. I do, and
you mistake me for somebody who gives a rat's ask
about whether or not you're spying on me to figure
out whether I was dumping something personal in the company's
garbage bend back there, their camera's back there, probably waved
to them, Hey, it's me procedural due process. Now some
(19:33):
are conflicted and upset about illegal aliens or tourists or
anybody else being guaranteed the right to do process. If
you're in this country, well let me let me ask
you a couple of questions. I want you to think
honestly about your answers. If if you were in France
(20:00):
and you were somehow involved in a civil dispute, maybe
at a car wreck, and you know it was your fault,
and now you know your insurance company, and you know
you've got to know whether it was a real car.
I mean, there's all sorts of different factors. But let's
just say that somehow you get involved in a civil
(20:21):
dispute with someone in France, Well, the proper place for
that case to be heard is going to be France,
because you were there, the incident happened there, and the
other person was there, So that's going to be the
proper venue for that case is in let's just say
it's Paris. So when you go to court, you're going
(20:45):
to want to ensure You're going to want whatever French
law provides French citizens to assure fairness in a court proceeding.
You're going to want that for yourself, nothing more than
nothing less. Let's say that you go to France and
(21:05):
you murder someone, and you get charged with that murder.
You don't want them to say, oh, well, it was
a tourist here from the United States, and we treat
them differently. We just have a show trial and we
just throw you in prison without any due process. No,
you want you want, you want a fair trial. You
(21:28):
want whatever it is that the French Constitution and French
statutes provide to French individuals. You want to be afforded
those same procedural and substantive rights that a Frenchman has
because you're on their soil, subject to their territorial jurisdiction. Now,
(21:50):
let's say that you you come you go to Russia
is a hard one. Let me think of a country
you go to. I'm not sure that you need No,
you don't need a visa to go to Japan Singapore.
I think you still need a visa to go to Singapore,
which has some very harsh rules. But you fail to
(22:14):
get the visa, and so you go to Singapore illegally.
You land in Singapore illegally. You somehow make it feel
through the airport, through customs or whatever, but you are
maybe you sneak into the country, I don't know, but
you make it to Singapore and now you're on Singapore
soil illegally. You then commit a crime or you get
(22:39):
involved in a civil dispute, You're still going to be
subject to the rules of Singapore because you are there.
You'll have the same rights, the same privileges, the same obligations,
the same protections, and the same limitations everything that to
Singapore citizen would have. And Singapore may not be the
(23:00):
best example. I'm just using as an example. And you're
gonna want that. You're gonna want, you know, a fair
trial to the extent that you can get a fair
trial in Singapore. The same is true for people in
this country. Let's take for example, I know what example
you want me to get to, but I want you
(23:21):
to I'm leading you to the water. I can't make
you drink, and I'm gonna lead you to the water.
Let's say that you're the Frenchman, but instead of something
happening in France, you come to the United States, and
while you're in the United States, that Frenchman wrecks your car,
(23:44):
you have a car accident. That Frenchman is going to
be entitled to the same rights and processes, the same
procedural due process as if he were an American citizen
because he is on American soil, lawfully, on American soil.
(24:05):
So he's going to get the rights just as you
got his rights when you're in France. He's going to
get the rights that you enjoy while he's here in
your country because he's subject to the territorial jurisdiction of
the United States. But let's say that somebody comes here
from El Salvador and they come here illegally. That person
(24:32):
commits a crime, Let's say it's murder. He's entitled too,
because he is on American soil. He is entitled to
a fair trial. He is going to either hire his
own lawyer or he's going to get a public defender
appointed to represent him, just as an American citizen. Would,
(24:57):
or even as the Frenchman would came here illegally, I
mean as the Frenchman would who came here legally on
a visa or just came here because we don't require
anybody from the EU to have a visa. That's the
right and proper and fair thing to do, because you
(25:17):
don't want to take the illegal alien and say, oh,
you committed murder, so we're not going to give you
a trial. We're just going to take you out in
the backyard and shoot you, or we're just going to
throw you in prison for the rest of your life
without a trial. You would that should go against your
fundamental your fundamental sense of fairness. Yes, he's here illegally,
(25:43):
he committed a crime, so now he's going to go
through the same process that all the rest of us
go through. Because the alternative is to say, well, you
came here illegally, so you have no rights, and we're
just going to we're just going to give you the
death penalty, or we're just going to throw you in
the Colorad State prison for the rest of your life
without ever having a chance to prove your innocence or
(26:06):
to make the state prove that you're guilty beyond a
reasonable doubt, which is the real standard. Procedural due process
ensures fairness in legal procedures by requiring the government in
a criminal case, specifically in a criminal case, to follow
very specific rules and protocols before they can deprive you
(26:29):
of life, liberty, or property. That means that individuals must
receive things like proper notice, what are my charges? What
are the charges against me? Have the opportunity to be heard,
have a neutral decision maker, a judge evaluate the case.
It's a constitutional guarantee that protects against unfair or mistaken
(26:52):
government actions. You've got a right to You've got a
right to cross examine witnesses. You have a right to
present your own witnesses. You have the right to present
a defense. The Frenchman who came here legally has those rights.
The Al Salvador and who came here illegally has those
exact same rights too for people who don't want it otherwise,
(27:19):
do you really want them first, if they if they can,
if they murder your mom, do you just want them
sent back to El Salvador. No, I want the person
to go through a trial. He's here illegally, he murders you,
know a family member.
Speaker 1 (27:37):
I want him.
Speaker 2 (27:38):
I want the government to take him to court and
prove beyond a reasonable doubt that he committed that crime
killed my family member. Then I want him to receive
the proper sentence that anybody else would. The Frenchman who's
here visiting, or you as my neighbor, procedural due process.
(27:58):
And it's because you're on American territory. It's as simple
as that. And again I would ask the question if
if you don't want them to get if you want
you want the Frenchmen to get due process, right, can
we not agree on that? Well, if you want the
Frenchmen to get due process because he came here legally,
(28:23):
why do you not want the El Salvadoran who came
here illegally to also get due process? You can't claim
one for one and not one for the other. So
that leads me to did Kilmer Armadol Abrego Garcia receive
due process? And my argument is that he did. So.
(28:47):
I talked about this on Saturday, and I get from
someone who goes by pee Wee Moondog the following email
listening to your the weekend show Holy Saturday. Your certainty,
your certainty ing. I don't know what he means by that.
You're certain ing Abrego Garcia is a gang member, and
(29:09):
yet you offered in all caps no evidence. You are
a facile expounder. But merely repeating the same assertion three
different ways is like a baseball pitcher missing with this curveball,
but he keeps throwing the same curveball.
Speaker 1 (29:24):
The count is three to zero. I googled.
Speaker 2 (29:28):
Wow, okay, I googled on a Brego Garcia a known
gang member. I cannot find the evidence. You may be
a responsible, right thinking advocate, but seriously, where's the beef?
Where's the beef?
Speaker 1 (29:43):
Hah?
Speaker 2 (29:45):
Well, if you'd been listening to the program, he would
have heard the evidence that I gave, And I'm going
to give you the same evidence. And the evidence has
been published. It's available. You can google it. I found
it quite easily.
Speaker 3 (30:00):
Lighthouse gave out that evidence.
Speaker 2 (30:01):
Yeah, it's in fact, I have it on my timeline
because I've reposted it like a week or so ago.
But I did the same Google and I found it.
So I don't know what this Yahoo's doing. But when
we get back, I want to I want to share
with you from December nineteen twenty nineteen. How it is
(30:27):
that Kilmer armadol Abrago Garcia, an illegal alien who had
already received an order of removal, had received his due process.
That's next.
Speaker 7 (30:42):
So I come to the Michael Brown Show to hear
the latest political insight. And what's the top story today.
It's a beat up gift card found in the parking lot.
Thanks a Lot, Dragon, Thanks a lot.
Speaker 3 (30:57):
You're welcome.
Speaker 1 (31:00):
In this shows. Like a box of chocolates, you never
know what you're going to get.
Speaker 2 (31:06):
I love the text messages, but we'll get to those
in a second. Here's why I claim that Kilmar Armado
Abrego Garcia received due process. Have in front of me
a letter that's on US Department of Justice letterhead the
Executive Office for Immigration Review and its subtitled Decision of
(31:29):
the Board of Immigration Appeals, State of December nineteen, twenty
nineteen n ray in bond Proceedings appeal on behalf of
respondent who is mister Garcia is Lucilla Curiel Esquire, a
lawyer on behalf of DHS Jennifer Hastings, Assistant Chief Counsel application.
(31:54):
The purpose of the hearing was redetermination of custody status
bear with me, I'll skip the citations. The respondent and
nat even citizen of El Salvador, appeals from an immigration
judge's April twenty four, twenty nineteen decision denying his requests
(32:18):
for release on bond from the custody of the Department
of Homeland Security blah blah, blah blah nineteen the immigration judge.
The trial judge issued a memorandum setting forth the reasons
underlying her conclusion that the respondent did not show, meaning
(32:39):
that mister Garcia did not show that he is not
a danger to the community, and he did not show
that he presents a flight risk capable of being mitigated
by receiving a bond, the appeal will be dismissed. The
board reviews the Immigration judge's factual findings. For clear error citations,
(33:02):
an alien quote must demonstrate to the satisfaction of the
immigration judge the trial judge that his or her release
would not pose a danger to property or persons. Thus,
only if an alien has established that he or she
would not pose a danger to persons or property, should
an immigration judge decide the amount of bond necessary to
(33:22):
ensure the alien's presence at proceedings.
Speaker 1 (33:26):
To remove him or her from.
Speaker 2 (33:28):
The United States. The respondent or use of the Immigration
judge clearly erred in determining that he is a verified
member of MS thirteen because there is no reliable evidence
in the record to support such a finding. In this regard,
the respondent, mister Garcia, asserts that a Prince George's County
Police Department Gang Field interview SHEEP is based on hearsay
(33:52):
relayed by a confidential source. The respondent also claims that
he presented sufficient evidence to rebut the allegation that he
is affiliated with MS thirteen, including character references and criminal
records showing that he has only been charged with traffic offenses. Therefore,
the respondent contends that the Immigration judge erroneously ruled that
(34:14):
he did not show that he is not a danger
to the community. They conclude, we adopt this is the
hearing board. We adopt and affirm the Immigration Judge's danger ruling.
Notwithstanding the respondent's challenges to the reliability of the information,
(34:36):
the Immigration judge appropriately considered allegations of gang affiliations against
mister Garcia in determining that he is not demonstrated that
he has not a danger to property of persons citations. Further, Consequently,
we need not address the Immigration Judge's flight risk determination. Accordingly,
(34:57):
the following order is entered. Order the appeal is dismissed.
Now from this document, it is easy to understand that
he received a hearing. He even received a bond hearing. Hey,
I'd like to get out on bond bonds denied. We
(35:18):
believe we have evidence secure a member of MS thirteen,
I challenge that evidence. Okay, present the challenges. Okay, We've
looked at the challenges. We reject your challenges. Okay that
I'm going to appealing.
Speaker 1 (35:31):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (35:31):
The appeal Board here's everything, looks at the trial record
and says the immigration judge is proper. We have no
reason to overturn. It gets uphill. That's due process.
Did morning from South Dakota. It's left gonna blame jd Vance.
Did everyone have a great day?
Speaker 2 (00:08):
I thought about that. Jd Vance. Did they shake hands
or not shake hands?
Speaker 3 (00:13):
I don't know, but he was there.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
He was there, that's right. And jd Vance had his
rug rat. Now I don't know the rug rats were
in the audience, the papal audience. But the rug rats,
you know they're they're known for spreading germs. So speaking
of germs, now that I've touched that stupid thing, I
don't really think.
Speaker 4 (00:30):
That gets the Clorox wife or something.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
Yeah, I need to like clean it off. So Dragon
and I have a moral well maybe it's a moral dilemma.
Speaker 1 (00:40):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
So Dragon tells me. And why he waits until five
seconds before the program starts.
Speaker 4 (00:49):
I don't didn't have time to look it up until
five seconds.
Speaker 3 (00:52):
Before the program.
Speaker 4 (00:53):
Okay, so the dollar it's hard to believe, but I
actually work around here.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
Man, we'll touch you this morning, are we?
Speaker 4 (01:04):
So? Just?
Speaker 2 (01:07):
I mean literally before just right before the show starts.
Speaker 1 (01:10):
He throws this moral dilemma at me.
Speaker 3 (01:15):
What do I do?
Speaker 1 (01:17):
Well? My reaction was which I find interesting.
Speaker 4 (01:20):
Because okay, correction correction. My question was not what do
I do? My question was who do I come?
Speaker 1 (01:29):
How do you do it?
Speaker 4 (01:29):
Because there was no question in my mind that I
needed to turn this in or I need to fill
But when you.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
First told me, there was no question in my mind
it's not worth it. Just keep it, forget about it.
Speaker 3 (01:42):
It's so here until I looked it up again.
Speaker 1 (01:45):
You looked it up.
Speaker 2 (01:45):
And then what I find interesting is now that we
know a dollar amount, is it still a moral question
or not?
Speaker 3 (01:55):
Oh, I still turn it in.
Speaker 1 (01:57):
If let's say it was one tenth of what is
on there right now.
Speaker 4 (02:03):
Then I just probably throw it away.
Speaker 1 (02:09):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (02:09):
Then let's say it was it was enough for you
to taco bell for lunch, it was seven.
Speaker 3 (02:14):
Eight bucks, then I still seven ten dollars.
Speaker 1 (02:20):
Ten, there's ten dollars.
Speaker 4 (02:21):
If there were ten dollars on it. I think it
may also determine as to what the starting amount was.
Speaker 2 (02:30):
So real quick, because it's just making differ what the
starting amount was because it's only as good as the
current amount.
Speaker 4 (02:35):
I'm sure we're confusing people. Let's start.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
I want to I want people wondering what you.
Speaker 4 (02:40):
Want on around the bush forever.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
No I'm going to be around the bush for everybody.
I want to say, I want to start shut up,
I want to set I'm want to set up the
moral dilemma. The moral dilemma is is a dollar amount?
So now we'll back up. So Dragon tells me I
found a gift card in the parking lot. My immediate
reaction is, oh, well, just you know, yeah, so so
(03:02):
I don't care. Then he describes it to me and
then he brings it in to show it to me
and I and I actually touch it, and now that
I've touched it, I regret touching it.
Speaker 3 (03:10):
It's very beat up.
Speaker 4 (03:12):
It has been run over multiple times because, like I said,
I found it in the parking lot.
Speaker 2 (03:16):
You found it out by where you park, correct, So
it wasn't like it's It was on the back door somewhere.
Speaker 4 (03:22):
Correct in the parking lot, on the asphalt. And it's
been run over. And I highly doubt that the magnetic
strip will ever work again.
Speaker 2 (03:29):
Right, Someone will have to get a replacement card for that.
Now where based on where you park, there are like
when I'm in here on Saturday, there are people walking
through that through that area, uh not, they get off
the grass and they walk through the parking lot to
shortcut to go over to wherever they're going over here
there is there are the condos that are here. To
(03:51):
our north, there's a green belt over to the west. Yeah,
there's there there. There are two companies in this building,
plus the management of the company of the building and
the owners of the building. There are even on Saturdays
when I come in, there are strange cars here. In fact,
(04:12):
it was there was a car that when I pulled
in Saturday, in part, I waited for a second because
they were circling the drive, and I thought, well, that's odd.
I'm not going to just jump out of the car.
What are they doing circling the drive? So there's traffic
in and out.
Speaker 1 (04:26):
So he comes in.
Speaker 2 (04:27):
He hands me this gift card. I might not tell you,
but you know it's a gift card like you might
go buy a King Supers right exactly, And and he
hands it to me, and I realize, this thing's been
beat to hell. This thing has been out in that
parking lot, or who knows. It may started in the
parking lot. This is my point. It may started in
(04:47):
the parking lot over in the condos. It may have
started over on the green Belt.
Speaker 4 (04:53):
It made the parking lot from the next door next door.
Speaker 2 (04:57):
Because we had a strong we had strong southerly winds,
so it could have it could have been from anywhere.
Speaker 4 (05:02):
And it definitely looks like it has been in our
parking lot for.
Speaker 3 (05:06):
At least the weekend.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
Oh, I think longer than the weekend, because I was
here Saturday and it was, uh, it was.
Speaker 1 (05:16):
It was not.
Speaker 3 (05:17):
First of all, there were brainy snowy Schwitz.
Speaker 2 (05:21):
A little bit. But based on where that card was
what I noticed because this Saturday I drove through the
back parking lots. I had dumb some stuff in the dumpster.
There was nobody here. You know, usually there's four or
five cars out there, right, Usually Willie Bee's here, there's
somebody here. There was nobody here Saturday. So that's been
(05:44):
there longer than this weekend. In my opinion, based on
the condition of the gift card, it's it's warped, it's
covered with sand and dirt and snow. It's some of them,
it's numbers are getting the front's beginning to wear off.
Speaker 1 (06:02):
It's everything.
Speaker 2 (06:04):
So Dragon says, who do I notify that I found
this gift card?
Speaker 3 (06:08):
We can find the real owner yes.
Speaker 2 (06:10):
And my first reaction was, oh, if it's a gift card,
it's got you know, ten bucks on a water, who cares?
It's not worth your time and effort. Just you know,
go use it somewhere, see if the stripe works or
just whatever. Nobody's going to care. And I'm from my
personal perspective. If I lost a gift card that had
I would say even ten or fifteen dollars on it,
(06:32):
I wouldn't.
Speaker 3 (06:32):
It's gone gone. Who cares fifteen bucks?
Speaker 1 (06:35):
Yeah? Yeah, So so that was my advice to drag
and he goes.
Speaker 4 (06:40):
But the dollar amount, the dollar amount it started with,
and then the dollar amount that it's got left.
Speaker 2 (06:46):
And you can see that by putting the number in correct. Yeah,
you didn't ask for a zip code or anything.
Speaker 4 (06:50):
No, it just wants the card information. So it wanted
the number of plus umber security code they valid through date,
and then the security code. So I put all that
in information in and the dollar amount left and the
dollar amount that it started with. Shocking to me. Yeah,
so somebody would want this back.
Speaker 2 (07:14):
The question then is who do we go to? And
I think you go to Tepper, okay, because Tepper can
that that's our technically our program.
Speaker 3 (07:24):
Well he's technically your boss, right, my direct boss, your
direct boss.
Speaker 2 (07:28):
So you go to him because he could send an
all email, all hands email that just says, can you
identify the card by its color, original dollar amount, maybe
somewhere near what you think the current balance is something,
because anybody can guess visa a MasterCard and your fifty
(07:49):
to fifty chance that you got it right. And if
that's the case, if I see that email and it
just says, hey, tell me you know what, I'll just
claim it since I now know numbers.
Speaker 3 (08:00):
Fifty bucks and MasterCard.
Speaker 2 (08:02):
Yeah yeah, yeah, I'll dis claim it. So the question
is does Dragon keep it or does Dragon just see
if they can identify.
Speaker 4 (08:13):
It and I can see that the last purchase on it,
because when you type in all that information into the website,
it does say the last purchase was on the fourth.
Speaker 1 (08:22):
Oh my gosh, a while, that's seventeen days ago.
Speaker 4 (08:27):
Huh.
Speaker 2 (08:30):
We're getting close to three weeks, which goes back to
my point about how long that thing's been floating around
disappeared and who knows where it came from. Considering the
weather we've had, it really could have come from any
place around here, so you make here. Here's my answer,
(08:50):
although I still say part of me says, I just
keep it. Who cares? You make a good faith effort.
Have somebody. They've got twenty four hours to claim it.
And because you know people need to read the you
should read your work email at least once a day,
and then if nobody claims it by tomorrow, you just
(09:12):
keep it.
Speaker 4 (09:13):
From the text line, Michael, gift cards should be treated
as cash. In fact, they usually say that old one
all beat up like fine is like finding cash on
the ground in the old days, losers, weepers, dragons keeper.
Speaker 2 (09:26):
Yeah see, and that's and that's kind of my I
still go. The only thing that's caused me any reservation.
Speaker 1 (09:32):
Is the dollar amount. Right, but now that you've told me.
Speaker 2 (09:36):
The last purchase was, which which not necessarily when they
lost it, correct, But that's the last time they used it,
so it's not like they're using this thing, you know,
on a regular basis. Yeah, yeah, yeah, see my my,
even with even knowing the dollar amount, if if it
(09:58):
makes you feel better, I would say he asked Temper
to send. In fact, I would tell Temper how how
to word the email?
Speaker 3 (10:06):
Okay, yeah, yeah, I mean in the.
Speaker 2 (10:11):
Day, he'll say, I'm not saying you'd say this, but
you'll say, well, oh that's mine. It's a it's a
you know, it's an American Express gift card. It's it's
it's kind of goldish, and and there was like, you know,
X number of dollars left on it, or so.
Speaker 3 (10:25):
The Travelers checks.
Speaker 4 (10:28):
Way back in the day, I would have gone to
Corey at the front desk and say, hey, can you
plan please send to Denver all and you know, see
if anybody has knows anything about this, you know.
Speaker 3 (10:38):
But I just.
Speaker 5 (10:39):
Say, happy Easter, you know you you you know, as
the Pope was ascending to heaven, the Pope draft off
dropped off a gift card for you, simply because he,
you know, he was looking for some redbeard somewhere to
give a gift card to him.
Speaker 2 (10:57):
And I would say, just uh, take it. But I
guess you're you're a better person than I am.
Speaker 3 (11:05):
I can't. I can't just disappear this this card.
Speaker 2 (11:09):
Which gets to my hope which I find fascinating about this.
If it if it was now we're not talking about
one thousand dollars on this card, but if this card
had I'd say even fifty.
Speaker 1 (11:26):
Dollars on it.
Speaker 2 (11:28):
Yeah, And fifty dollars means it hasn't been used, I
would say, because to have a you know, an even
balance like that, I would say, nobody's used it, and
they haven't used it for whatever.
Speaker 1 (11:41):
Maybe the issue you know, do you know what the
last transaction was?
Speaker 4 (11:45):
Yes, it does tell me what it was?
Speaker 3 (11:49):
Yes, and when? And how much was that?
Speaker 1 (11:52):
And how much was that dollar amount?
Speaker 3 (11:53):
Two dollars?
Speaker 2 (11:54):
Two dollars, Yes, So they drove in McDonald's or something.
Are they stopped at?
Speaker 4 (11:59):
Not?
Speaker 1 (11:59):
I don't anything for two bucks in the Starbucks.
Speaker 2 (12:01):
They slapped at the convenience stores, or they used it
maybe downstairs in the vending machine, could have been yeah,
something in the vending machine. So the interesting question that
the thing I find interesting about this is if it
had been and I'm thinking around fifty dollars or less,
I'd just be like dragging them now, just forget it,
(12:22):
just keeping No, it's so beat up.
Speaker 4 (12:24):
Who cares some more or less twenty bucks or less.
But you're at twenty bucks or let yeah, I'm at
fifty bucks. Us, what are you at?
Speaker 1 (12:33):
Where are you? And what do you think? Three? Three
one zero three.
Speaker 2 (12:38):
Let me remind you that because Capitalist left up his
his text line the other day and a couple of
people sent texts to me over on Caples's and martinez
text line, we have our own separate text line three
three one zero three three three one zero three. Keyword
Mike or Michael one or the other. Either one doesn't
(12:59):
make any difference. What would you do? Would you keep
it or would you go to the effort to try
to find the owner?
Speaker 4 (13:08):
Turn the card in with all the identifying information that
you found out about. If somebody lost it, then they
can come claim it and they should be able to
responsibly attach their use to what you know about the
most recent usage in dollar amounts. Then if after X
days nobody claims it, it's yours and you've done.
Speaker 3 (13:28):
The right thing this one.
Speaker 4 (13:31):
I kind of like to just give it to charity. Yeah,
fighters keepers.
Speaker 2 (13:37):
But to my point ninety five oh four, how do
you even know the gift card comes from the iHeartMedia population.
You could have come from an outside source, considering the
weather and other consideration. And that's my point, and I
guess you'll find that out. If nobody claims it, then
you know it's.
Speaker 4 (13:52):
Yours yeah, there is a parking structure. There's a covered
parking area for the other company in the building, for.
Speaker 1 (14:02):
For the for the for the more beautiful people.
Speaker 3 (14:04):
Correct.
Speaker 4 (14:04):
Yeah, but who's to say they have to use that.
They don't have to use that parking area. They can
watch they all use it. Oh, I'm sure because it's
cover parking. I wouldn't use cover parking. If you could
use cover parking, especially over the weekend when it was
all snowy and gross, or in.
Speaker 1 (14:18):
The summer when the sun's out just going to be hot.
Speaker 3 (14:20):
But they don't have to park there. They could park,
you know where a Sleebs park.
Speaker 2 (14:26):
Where a Sleebs park, because you remember they built that
parking then they put that structure in and they had
to send out an all company email. Hey, that is
uh and it's so funny because it's not for you,
you low lives. That's that's for the new company down
on the second floor. So do not use that, you
know it. It's like really a really nasty kind of email.
Speaker 3 (14:48):
Pultiple of them. If I do recall, stay away from there.
Park in the front circle.
Speaker 2 (14:54):
Right, Oh, which everybody does now everybody parks in the
front circle. Oh my God, it's so funny. In fact,
one person who sent an email about never parking in
the front circle always parks at least one or two
cars right next to me in the front circle. And
(15:15):
I just parked in the front circle because it's easier
for me to get in with my diet cokes and stuff.
So there's the moral dilemma of today. Oh here's another one.
Michael and Dragon, irregardless in quotes. I love that, I
love this audience, irregardless of the dollar amount. The rule
I always tell the kids is if you find it
(15:36):
on public property, then it's fair game. But if you
find it on private property, goes to the property owners discretion.
Well that's really a that's private property, but it's a
public parking.
Speaker 3 (15:48):
Area, right, Yeah, that's a little gray area right there.
Speaker 1 (15:50):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:54):
Michael Larson College Park area of DC, nineteen eighty nine,
found a fifty dollars bill in front of a hairstyling salon.
Speaker 1 (16:00):
Salon. Let the owner know.
Speaker 2 (16:02):
I gave my phone number and staid if I didn't
hear within forty eight hours, I was going to keep it.
Time to move along, now, yep, yeah, all right.
Speaker 4 (16:11):
If you lose a gift card, you lost cash.
Speaker 3 (16:13):
It's the loser's loss.
Speaker 4 (16:18):
But you're gonna you're you're I'm still I'm going after
this conversation and after thinking about it, I am going
to tell Tepper to send.
Speaker 3 (16:27):
A dem roll.
Speaker 2 (16:28):
You're you're amazing.
Speaker 4 (16:31):
I'm not going to give it to Tepper and say, hey,
if anybody comes to you, I'm going to keep on doing.
Speaker 2 (16:37):
Oh, then you keep possession of it. Yes, you get
possession of yeah. Yeah, all right, let's get started. I'm
not going to do it right now, but i want
to talk about for a moment about and we'll carry
it over into the next break. Procedural due process procedural
(17:00):
amendment guarantees everyone the right to do process and people
in this people who are in the territorial jurisdiction of
the United States. In other words, you are you are
on American soil, whether you're here as a tourist or
an illegal alien or an American citizen, you are entitled
(17:25):
if you find yourself embroiled in a civil controversy. Because
due process applies to civil cases as much as it
applies to criminal cases, there are certain procedures that the
court uses to guarantee that everyone gets their fair chance,
(17:45):
gets a fair trial, gets the opportunity to be heard,
and there are rules of evidence. There are rules of
civil procedure, there are rules of criminal procedure, all of
which establishes the process by which a case civil or
criminal is heard by a court. There's also substantive due process,
(18:09):
but we're not going to deal with that because everything
you're hearing about kil Mar Abregeo Garcia Garcia, the Al
Salvadoran who is now in a luxury hotel of some
sort luxury prison in Al Salvador, has to do with
procedural due process.
Speaker 1 (18:29):
And I explained that.
Speaker 2 (18:30):
To the National audience on Saturday and received an email
that just irritates the fire out of it. So we're
going to walk through procedural due process and what you
need to understand.
Speaker 6 (18:43):
Hey, guys, that gift card, it's mine. I just happened
to be over in your parking lot this weekend. I'm
part of a PI private investigators company and we were
hired to find out who was dumping their personal stuff
in the company's dumpster. So I'll get in touch with
(19:04):
you later about my gift card.
Speaker 3 (19:06):
Thanks by what a huge weight off my shoulders.
Speaker 2 (19:09):
Yeah, let's you feel better about that. I do, and
you mistake me for somebody who gives a rat's ask
about whether or not you're spying on me to figure
out whether I was dumping something personal in the company's
garbage bend back there, their camera's back there, probably waved
to them, Hey, it's me procedural due process. Now some
(19:33):
are conflicted and upset about illegal aliens or tourists or
anybody else being guaranteed the right to do process. If
you're in this country, well let me let me ask
you a couple of questions. I want you to think
honestly about your answers. If if you were in France
(20:00):
and you were somehow involved in a civil dispute, maybe
at a car wreck, and you know it was your fault,
and now you know your insurance company, and you know
you've got to know whether it was a real car.
I mean, there's all sorts of different factors. But let's
just say that somehow you get involved in a civil
(20:21):
dispute with someone in France, Well, the proper place for
that case to be heard is going to be France,
because you were there, the incident happened there, and the
other person was there, So that's going to be the
proper venue for that case is in let's just say
it's Paris. So when you go to court, you're going
(20:45):
to want to ensure You're going to want whatever French
law provides French citizens to assure fairness in a court proceeding.
You're going to want that for yourself, nothing more than
nothing less. Let's say that you go to France and
(21:05):
you murder someone, and you get charged with that murder.
You don't want them to say, oh, well, it was
a tourist here from the United States, and we treat
them differently. We just have a show trial and we
just throw you in prison without any due process. No,
you want you want, you want a fair trial. You
(21:28):
want whatever it is that the French Constitution and French
statutes provide to French individuals. You want to be afforded
those same procedural and substantive rights that a Frenchman has
because you're on their soil, subject to their territorial jurisdiction. Now,
(21:50):
let's say that you you come you go to Russia
is a hard one. Let me think of a country
you go to. I'm not sure that you need No,
you don't need a visa to go to Japan Singapore.
I think you still need a visa to go to Singapore,
which has some very harsh rules. But you fail to
(22:14):
get the visa, and so you go to Singapore illegally.
You land in Singapore illegally. You somehow make it feel
through the airport, through customs or whatever, but you are
maybe you sneak into the country, I don't know, but
you make it to Singapore and now you're on Singapore
soil illegally. You then commit a crime or you get
(22:39):
involved in a civil dispute, You're still going to be
subject to the rules of Singapore because you are there.
You'll have the same rights, the same privileges, the same obligations,
the same protections, and the same limitations everything that to
Singapore citizen would have. And Singapore may not be the
(23:00):
best example. I'm just using as an example. And you're
gonna want that. You're gonna want, you know, a fair
trial to the extent that you can get a fair
trial in Singapore. The same is true for people in
this country. Let's take for example, I know what example
you want me to get to, but I want you
(23:21):
to I'm leading you to the water. I can't make
you drink, and I'm gonna lead you to the water.
Let's say that you're the Frenchman, but instead of something
happening in France, you come to the United States, and
while you're in the United States, that Frenchman wrecks your car,
(23:44):
you have a car accident. That Frenchman is going to
be entitled to the same rights and processes, the same
procedural due process as if he were an American citizen
because he is on American soil, lawfully, on American soil.
(24:05):
So he's going to get the rights just as you
got his rights when you're in France. He's going to
get the rights that you enjoy while he's here in
your country because he's subject to the territorial jurisdiction of
the United States. But let's say that somebody comes here
from El Salvador and they come here illegally. That person
(24:32):
commits a crime, Let's say it's murder. He's entitled too,
because he is on American soil. He is entitled to
a fair trial. He is going to either hire his
own lawyer or he's going to get a public defender
appointed to represent him, just as an American citizen. Would,
(24:57):
or even as the Frenchman would came here illegally, I
mean as the Frenchman would who came here legally on
a visa or just came here because we don't require
anybody from the EU to have a visa. That's the
right and proper and fair thing to do, because you
(25:17):
don't want to take the illegal alien and say, oh,
you committed murder, so we're not going to give you
a trial. We're just going to take you out in
the backyard and shoot you, or we're just going to
throw you in prison for the rest of your life
without a trial. You would that should go against your
fundamental your fundamental sense of fairness. Yes, he's here illegally,
(25:43):
he committed a crime, so now he's going to go
through the same process that all the rest of us
go through. Because the alternative is to say, well, you
came here illegally, so you have no rights, and we're
just going to we're just going to give you the
death penalty, or we're just going to throw you in
the Colorad State prison for the rest of your life
without ever having a chance to prove your innocence or
(26:06):
to make the state prove that you're guilty beyond a
reasonable doubt, which is the real standard. Procedural due process
ensures fairness in legal procedures by requiring the government in
a criminal case, specifically in a criminal case, to follow
very specific rules and protocols before they can deprive you
(26:29):
of life, liberty, or property. That means that individuals must
receive things like proper notice, what are my charges? What
are the charges against me? Have the opportunity to be heard,
have a neutral decision maker, a judge evaluate the case.
It's a constitutional guarantee that protects against unfair or mistaken
(26:52):
government actions. You've got a right to You've got a
right to cross examine witnesses. You have a right to
present your own witnesses. You have the right to present
a defense. The Frenchman who came here legally has those rights.
The Al Salvador and who came here illegally has those
exact same rights too for people who don't want it otherwise,
(27:19):
do you really want them first, if they if they can,
if they murder your mom, do you just want them
sent back to El Salvador. No, I want the person
to go through a trial. He's here illegally, he murders you,
know a family member.
Speaker 1 (27:37):
I want him.
Speaker 2 (27:38):
I want the government to take him to court and
prove beyond a reasonable doubt that he committed that crime
killed my family member. Then I want him to receive
the proper sentence that anybody else would. The Frenchman who's
here visiting, or you as my neighbor, procedural due process.
(27:58):
And it's because you're on American territory. It's as simple
as that. And again I would ask the question if
if you don't want them to get if you want
you want the Frenchmen to get due process, right, can
we not agree on that? Well, if you want the
Frenchmen to get due process because he came here legally,
(28:23):
why do you not want the El Salvadoran who came
here illegally to also get due process? You can't claim
one for one and not one for the other. So
that leads me to did Kilmer Armadol Abrego Garcia receive
due process? And my argument is that he did. So.
(28:47):
I talked about this on Saturday, and I get from
someone who goes by pee Wee Moondog the following email
listening to your the weekend show Holy Saturday. Your certainty,
your certainty ing. I don't know what he means by that.
You're certain ing Abrego Garcia is a gang member, and
(29:09):
yet you offered in all caps no evidence. You are
a facile expounder. But merely repeating the same assertion three
different ways is like a baseball pitcher missing with this curveball,
but he keeps throwing the same curveball.
Speaker 1 (29:24):
The count is three to zero. I googled.
Speaker 2 (29:28):
Wow, okay, I googled on a Brego Garcia a known
gang member. I cannot find the evidence. You may be
a responsible, right thinking advocate, but seriously, where's the beef?
Where's the beef?
Speaker 1 (29:43):
Hah?
Speaker 2 (29:45):
Well, if you'd been listening to the program, he would
have heard the evidence that I gave, And I'm going
to give you the same evidence. And the evidence has
been published. It's available. You can google it. I found
it quite easily.
Speaker 3 (30:00):
Lighthouse gave out that evidence.
Speaker 2 (30:01):
Yeah, it's in fact, I have it on my timeline
because I've reposted it like a week or so ago.
But I did the same Google and I found it.
So I don't know what this Yahoo's doing. But when
we get back, I want to I want to share
with you from December nineteen twenty nineteen. How it is
(30:27):
that Kilmer armadol Abrago Garcia, an illegal alien who had
already received an order of removal, had received his due process.
That's next.
Speaker 7 (30:42):
So I come to the Michael Brown Show to hear
the latest political insight. And what's the top story today.
It's a beat up gift card found in the parking lot.
Thanks a Lot, Dragon, Thanks a lot.
Speaker 3 (30:57):
You're welcome.
Speaker 1 (31:00):
In this shows. Like a box of chocolates, you never
know what you're going to get.
Speaker 2 (31:06):
I love the text messages, but we'll get to those
in a second. Here's why I claim that Kilmar Armado
Abrego Garcia received due process. Have in front of me
a letter that's on US Department of Justice letterhead the
Executive Office for Immigration Review and its subtitled Decision of
(31:29):
the Board of Immigration Appeals, State of December nineteen, twenty
nineteen n ray in bond Proceedings appeal on behalf of
respondent who is mister Garcia is Lucilla Curiel Esquire, a
lawyer on behalf of DHS Jennifer Hastings, Assistant Chief Counsel application.
(31:54):
The purpose of the hearing was redetermination of custody status
bear with me, I'll skip the citations. The respondent and
nat even citizen of El Salvador, appeals from an immigration
judge's April twenty four, twenty nineteen decision denying his requests
(32:18):
for release on bond from the custody of the Department
of Homeland Security blah blah, blah blah nineteen the immigration judge.
The trial judge issued a memorandum setting forth the reasons
underlying her conclusion that the respondent did not show, meaning
(32:39):
that mister Garcia did not show that he is not
a danger to the community, and he did not show
that he presents a flight risk capable of being mitigated
by receiving a bond, the appeal will be dismissed. The
board reviews the Immigration judge's factual findings. For clear error citations,
(33:02):
an alien quote must demonstrate to the satisfaction of the
immigration judge the trial judge that his or her release
would not pose a danger to property or persons. Thus,
only if an alien has established that he or she
would not pose a danger to persons or property, should
an immigration judge decide the amount of bond necessary to
(33:22):
ensure the alien's presence at proceedings.
Speaker 1 (33:26):
To remove him or her from.
Speaker 2 (33:28):
The United States. The respondent or use of the Immigration
judge clearly erred in determining that he is a verified
member of MS thirteen because there is no reliable evidence
in the record to support such a finding. In this regard,
the respondent, mister Garcia, asserts that a Prince George's County
Police Department Gang Field interview SHEEP is based on hearsay
(33:52):
relayed by a confidential source. The respondent also claims that
he presented sufficient evidence to rebut the allegation that he
is affiliated with MS thirteen, including character references and criminal
records showing that he has only been charged with traffic offenses. Therefore,
the respondent contends that the Immigration judge erroneously ruled that
(34:14):
he did not show that he is not a danger
to the community. They conclude, we adopt this is the
hearing board. We adopt and affirm the Immigration Judge's danger ruling.
Notwithstanding the respondent's challenges to the reliability of the information,
(34:36):
the Immigration judge appropriately considered allegations of gang affiliations against
mister Garcia in determining that he is not demonstrated that
he has not a danger to property of persons citations. Further, Consequently,
we need not address the Immigration Judge's flight risk determination. Accordingly,
(34:57):
the following order is entered. Order the appeal is dismissed.
Now from this document, it is easy to understand that
he received a hearing. He even received a bond hearing. Hey,
I'd like to get out on bond bonds denied. We
(35:18):
believe we have evidence secure a member of MS thirteen,
I challenge that evidence. Okay, present the challenges. Okay, We've
looked at the challenges. We reject your challenges. Okay that
I'm going to appealing.
Speaker 1 (35:31):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (35:31):
The appeal Board here's everything, looks at the trial record
and says the immigration judge is proper. We have no
reason to overturn. It gets uphill. That's due process.
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Special Summer Offer: Exclusively on Apple Podcasts, try our Dateline Premium subscription completely free for one month! With Dateline Premium, you get every episode ad-free plus exclusive bonus content.
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.