June 19, 2024 • 20 mins
On this episode of Our American Stories, in 1896, a case was brought before the Supreme Court that would solidify segregation for over five and a half decades. Homer Plessy's descendant, Keith Plessy, tells us the story of the Plessy v. Ferguson case, as well as what he and Judge Ferguson's descendants are doing about it now.
Support the show (https://www.ouramericanstories.com/donate)
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:12):
This is our American stories, and we love to tell
stories about our nation's history. And there's always All of
our stories about history are brought to us by the
great folks at Hillsdale College, where you can go to
learn all the things that matter in life, all the
things that are beautiful in life. And if you can't
get to Hillsdale, Hillsdale will come to you if they're
free and terrific online courses go to Hillsdale dot edu.
(00:36):
And as you know, we like to bring you events
that shaped our country, and some for the better and
some for the worst. And through it all there have
been people fighting, fighting for the promises made in our constitution.
Sometimes the battles we fought have been lost. Today Robbie
brings us the story of the Plus ev. Ferguson case
(00:56):
and a Supreme Court decision that solidified segregation for over
fifty years. It's told by a descendant of Homer Plessy himself,
Keith Plessy. Here's the story.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
Separate but equal. It's a phrase that haunted African Americans
for years. The right to separate individuals, restaurants, businesses, train cars,
buses based on the color of one's skin. Separate but
equal was not a policy left over from the Civil War.
There wasn't until more than thirty years after the Civil
War that segregation became the law of the land, but
(01:35):
not all states fell in at the same time. In
New Orleans, Louisiana, there was a man named Homer Plessy
who would, with the help of the country, fight for
the equality that black citizens had tasted for a brief moment.
Speaker 3 (01:49):
My name is Keith Plessy.
Speaker 4 (01:52):
I am a four generation descendant of Homer Plessy, plaintiff
in the Plessy Versus Ferguson case of eighteen ninety. Si
Alma Plessi was born in eighteen sixty three March seventeenth,
the same year that Abraham Lincoln issued the Emancipation Proclamation.
(02:14):
He grew up in a turbulent time. Civil War was
when he was an infant. Post Civil War was his
younger life where he experienced reconstruction in Louisiana. Being protected
by the Union soldiers, they were able to attend the
(02:35):
same schools as white citizens.
Speaker 3 (02:39):
There were three additions to.
Speaker 4 (02:42):
The US Constitution Amendments, the thirteenth, the fourteenth, and the
fifteenth Amendments. Those amendments came during reconstruction thirteenth Amendment abolished slavery,
Fourteenth Amendment equal protection of the laws, and the fifteenth
(03:02):
Amendment was the right to vote. So those three things
occurred during Reconstruction, and Homoplasy was a young man experiencing
those changes. So it was developing him to not only
enjoy the freedoms that came through reconstruction, but to defend
those rights when they were being taken away. And during
(03:26):
his childhood many protesters and activists of his time set
the pace for him. When he became a young man,
Homo Plus's father died at a young age, and Homoplussy
(03:47):
was about six years old when his father passed away.
His mother remarried into a family called the Due Parts.
Victor Dupart was part of the Unification movement, and Victor
Dupart's fathering Lie Law, was part of the Unification movement.
That movement combined white and black workers who protested for
(04:08):
equal paid and they got it during Reconstruction. However, when
Homer pless He became a young man, those rights were
slowly deteriorating, and Homer Plessey attended these meetings with his stepfather,
Victor Dupart, and he was familiar with the Citizens Committee,
(04:32):
but he was not a member of the Citizens Committee.
Speaker 3 (04:36):
That was a group of eighteen lawyers.
Speaker 4 (04:39):
Businessmen, prominent citizens, mixed race organization. There was some white citizens,
some African American citizens.
Speaker 3 (04:49):
Long in the battle for freedom. I think their history
goes back abolition long.
Speaker 4 (04:56):
Before the Civil War American Revolution. Were also participated in
the Battle of New Orleans. That Citizens Committee had a
deep background in fighting for freedom. A lot of those
uh F ancestors of the Citizens Committee who fought in
the Plus IV Ferguson case at the turn of the
century were very much involved in the development of America.
(05:20):
Homoplacy himself had a relative that was decorated in the
American Revolution. His great grandfather was a gentleman by the
name of Matthew de Vaux. Matthew de vout was decorated
four times in battle in the American Revolution, which not
being recognized as the American Revolution because Louisiana was still
(05:44):
the Louisiana Territory during the UH American Revolution.
Speaker 3 (05:48):
So his history goes back.
Speaker 4 (05:50):
He the right to fight for his freedom was born
with the country, and it it was in his dna
to battle for his rights. When eighteen ninety rolled around
and Louisiana decided to jump into this segregation chain of
(06:11):
laws that were spreading across the South. Florida had adopted
its segregation laws on trains. Alabama was before Louisiana, and
when Louisiana adopted its separate car law was eighteen ninety
and by eighteen ninety one a challenge was being presented
(06:32):
to them to change that law by the Citizens Committee.
Speaker 5 (06:36):
Here in New Orleans, the Withdraw Car Act or Separate
Car Act was a law passed in Louisiana that required
railroad companies to provide equal but separate train car accommodations
for blacks and whites.
Speaker 2 (06:57):
But Homer's case was not the first to challenge separate
car law. Another man who was white, passing Daniel day Dune,
where did it first class car traveling from New Orleans
to Montgomery, Alabama.
Speaker 4 (07:10):
When Homer Pleas was selected, the state law was being challenged.
The interstate law allowed trains outside the state of Louisiana,
so it didn't apply separate call or didn't apply to
those trains. But the trains to travel within the state
of Louisiana, the ones who were.
Speaker 3 (07:25):
Restricted by race in each car.
Speaker 4 (07:33):
Well, if you look at the Louisiana law as it
was written, you had a first class car that was
designated for white citizens and a second class car that
was designated for anyone of color. In the system of
the East Louisiana Railroad.
Speaker 3 (07:51):
They would have preferred to.
Speaker 4 (07:52):
Sell all first class tickets as opposed to a separate
car that had to be set up. Instance, the white
car was not full. One black citizen comes up to
ride the train. You have to prepare another car for
this guy, and you have a schedule to meet. When
your train is taken off, it's going to one from
(08:13):
one area to another. The delay that process by changing
the car, having to add a car to the train
took off a lot of time from the schedule.
Speaker 3 (08:25):
Which resulted in post service.
Speaker 4 (08:28):
So you know, those who who wanted to exercise segregation
on those trains had to suffer being late for their appointments.
Speaker 3 (08:39):
So it didn't make sense.
Speaker 1 (08:43):
And you're listening to Keith Plussy and what a story
this is, and anyone who's ever read the case, and
you can actually just type in plus E. V. Ferguson
and read the opinion, because it's astonishing. And when we
come back, we're going to continue with Keith Plussy's voice
and again a direct relative, a descendant of Homer Plusy,
(09:04):
and my goodness, it's a name you've heard, but it's
real life person. And that's why we loved telling you
these stories. These were real life people, and without them
doing what they did, things wouldn't have changed. And it
took a lot of courage to do what he did.
When we come back, more of the story of plus
E v. Ferguson as told by Keith Pluss. It here
(09:25):
on our American Stories, and we're back with our American
stories and the story of the US Supreme Court case,
probably the most infamous, the eighteen ninety six Plus ev.
(09:48):
Ferguson case. When we last left off, Homer plus he
was working with an organization to actually get caught so
they could start the legal battle that would land them
at the Supreme Court. When one looked at Plusy, they
couldn't tell if he was white or black. And this
is part of how they hoped to challenge the separation
of individuals into white cars in black cars. Here's Homer's
(10:10):
descendant again, Keith Plessy, continuing with this story.
Speaker 4 (10:17):
Now, that law also created another problem, which was how
do you tell that a person's black or a person's white.
Speaker 3 (10:26):
In New Orleans, you had so many.
Speaker 4 (10:28):
Citizens who appeared to be white, but they were actually black,
and it was hard for the conductors to determine the
race of someone.
Speaker 3 (10:37):
Until today, it's.
Speaker 4 (10:38):
Still a problem because you know, I have a personal
take on that, which I say that one of the
most ridiculous rules that were developed back then was called
the one drop rule, that if you had one drop
of African blood in your line, your geniality line, that
you were considered black. And in Homo Plessy's case, one
(11:02):
of the most ridiculous things that they were saying was
that he was one eighth black because of his great grandmother, Agnes,
who was a slave, so he was considered an octor room.
You know, I mean, that's kind of ridiculous to try
to have a meter to measure someone's race. You know,
(11:24):
it just it went into so many ridiculous that, you know,
rather than being recognized as a human being, as a person,
you had to talk about somebody's color the skin.
Speaker 3 (11:37):
You know, just didn't make any sense to me.
Speaker 4 (11:44):
The Citizens Committee had already cut a deal with the
East Louisiana Railroad to work on this plan to change
the law. So when Homo Plessy approached that train station,
he was already expected to arrive. He purchased his ticket
without conflict. He entered the train the train call which
(12:07):
was designated for whites only, and he sat down well.
The conductor and the arresting officer were also hired by
the Citizens Committee and the East Louisiana Railroad to arrest
Homer Plessy and take him off that train so that
they can challenge the law. He was bailed out because
the bail was set so he could be released.
Speaker 2 (12:31):
The initial criminal case was overseen by Judge John Howard Ferguson,
and he ruled that Louisiana was able to regulate their
interest state travel in whatever manner they deemed fit. After
the verdict was passed, the Citizens Committee stepped in and
appealed the case up to the state Supreme Court.
Speaker 4 (12:48):
That result of the case was appealed to the US
Supreme Court, and it was challenged in the US Supreme
Court by Homer.
Speaker 3 (12:56):
Pleasing in the Citizens Committee.
Speaker 4 (12:59):
And that's when it became Plessy Versus Ferguson, and it
became a national case. What the Citizens Committee did to
raise money to represent Homer Plessing. I think the phrase,
if I can get it correct, was the uh liberality
of the rich and the might of the poor combined.
(13:21):
So you had a list around the United States of
people who sent a dollar, who sent ten dollars, some
people sent fifty cents, but everybody combined created the fund
to represent Homer Plessy in the US Supreme Court, and
it was a national representation. It was fought for about
(13:43):
four years. However, it was unsuccessful. As history would write it.
The decision was separate but equal became in the law
of land. But in that instance, a new era of
civil rights pioneers were developing around the scene of that case,
(14:04):
a fight that continued to actually change the law. After
a separate but equal was adopted as the law of land,
many other areas that were not segregated became segregated. So
it brought about a backward step to America that I
(14:24):
think it was a crippling situation, probably one of the worst,
if not the worst decisions at a point in American
history where we could have actually turned the tables on
the inequalities that the country was producing. At the same time,
with this narrative of equal justice for all, it was
(14:48):
not being practiced at that time, and it was given teeth.
Jim Crow gave segregation teeth to bite into American society
in every facet possible. I mean, you had drinking fountains,
parks didn't allow.
Speaker 3 (15:04):
You to come into certain areas.
Speaker 4 (15:08):
Even when I was a kid, there was a park
that exercised weekends for white kids and black kids had
to squeeze in a little time in the park during
the week after school and the weekends where everybody was out.
Speaker 3 (15:23):
Of school, we couldn't go in that park.
Speaker 4 (15:31):
I was born in nineteen fifty seven, so that's a
long time after eighteen ninety six, and you know, it
was still affecting my life as a kid growing up
in New Orleans. Eventually, Brown versus Board of Education changed
(15:54):
Homer Plusy's case. The Plusy decision changed the landscape of
civil rights law at that point, but transportation still was
not changed until maybe the sixties, when you had the
Civil Rights Act signed. There was still buses being attacked,
so the transportation issue was not solved. There was education
(16:18):
in Brownie Bourdon. I remember as a child in elementary
school being told that I was related to Homer plessic.
Speaker 3 (16:29):
One of my teachers who I can remember, Miss Water.
Speaker 4 (16:33):
She brought the phone book into the room and while
we were talking about Plessy Versus Ferguson, she looked at
my name, stood me up in front of the class
and told the kids, Keith's last name is spelled just
like Homer Plessics.
Speaker 2 (16:51):
But it wasn't until much later that Keith realized how
closely related he was to Homer.
Speaker 4 (16:58):
Nineteen ninety six when I met author Keith Weldon Medley,
and this gentleman was doing research on Homer Plessey. He
had done extensive research and his book was being developed
was called Us Freeman Plessy Versus Ferguson to Fight Against Segregation,
and his book entailed the genealogy of Homer Plessy's family,
(17:25):
and that's when I really found out my connection to
Homer Plessy, to my great grandfather.
Speaker 3 (17:31):
And also at the.
Speaker 4 (17:32):
Same time he was doing research on Judge John Howard Ferguson.
Speaker 2 (17:37):
And not long after, Phoebe Ferguson, Judge Ferguson's great great granddaughter,
and Keith Plessi, whose great grandfather was Homer Plusse's cousin.
Speaker 3 (17:45):
Would meet.
Speaker 4 (17:48):
He invited us to his book signing, which we had
never seen or known of each other before then, and
at his book signing we met for the first time.
And when I first met missus Ferguson, she shook her
hand and she began to apologize for slavery, segregation, and
(18:09):
anything that ever went wrong during racial relations. And I
kind of interrupted her and said, hey, it's not our
fault that those things happen. We can do something different.
It's no longer pleasing versus Ferguson. It's Plessy and Ferguson.
So we became friends at that instant, and we've been
friends ever since. And it took us from two thousand
(18:33):
and four to two thousand and nine when we actually
developed the foundation. We signed our letters of incorporation at
a restaurant called Cafe and reconciled when we signed our
papers there. We didn't realize that on July ninth we
(18:55):
were signing those papers the fourteenth Amendment. It was adopted
to the US Constitution on July to ninth, eighteen sixty eight.
Speaker 1 (19:06):
And great job is always to Robbie and the Plussy
and Ferguson Foundation is doing a lot to educate folks. Together.
Heath Plussy and Phoebe Ferguson are spreading their message that
their mutual history can be a tool to create unity
and understanding. I wanted to read you the lone dissenting opinion.
Everyone knows that the statute in question had its origin
(19:28):
in the purpose not so much to exclude white people
from railroad cars occupied by blacks, but as to exclude
colored people from coaches occupied by or assigned to white people.
Our constitution is colorblind and neither knows nor tolerates classes
among citizens in respective civil rights. All citizens are equal
before the law. The humblest is the peer of the
(19:49):
most powerful. The law regards man as man and takes
no account of his surroundings or of his color when
his civil rights, as guaranteed by the supreme law of
the land or involved. And that is just just Harlan dissenting.
Speaker 3 (20:01):
And plus E v.
Speaker 1 (20:02):
Ferguson in eighteen ninety six plus E v. Ferguson is
told by Keith Plussy the story here on our American
Stories
This is our American stories, and we love to tell
stories about our nation's history. And there's always All of
our stories about history are brought to us by the
great folks at Hillsdale College, where you can go to
learn all the things that matter in life, all the
things that are beautiful in life. And if you can't
get to Hillsdale, Hillsdale will come to you if they're
free and terrific online courses go to Hillsdale dot edu.
(00:36):
And as you know, we like to bring you events
that shaped our country, and some for the better and
some for the worst. And through it all there have
been people fighting, fighting for the promises made in our constitution.
Sometimes the battles we fought have been lost. Today Robbie
brings us the story of the Plus ev. Ferguson case
(00:56):
and a Supreme Court decision that solidified segregation for over
fifty years. It's told by a descendant of Homer Plessy himself,
Keith Plessy. Here's the story.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
Separate but equal. It's a phrase that haunted African Americans
for years. The right to separate individuals, restaurants, businesses, train cars,
buses based on the color of one's skin. Separate but
equal was not a policy left over from the Civil War.
There wasn't until more than thirty years after the Civil
War that segregation became the law of the land, but
(01:35):
not all states fell in at the same time. In
New Orleans, Louisiana, there was a man named Homer Plessy
who would, with the help of the country, fight for
the equality that black citizens had tasted for a brief moment.
Speaker 3 (01:49):
My name is Keith Plessy.
Speaker 4 (01:52):
I am a four generation descendant of Homer Plessy, plaintiff
in the Plessy Versus Ferguson case of eighteen ninety. Si
Alma Plessi was born in eighteen sixty three March seventeenth,
the same year that Abraham Lincoln issued the Emancipation Proclamation.
(02:14):
He grew up in a turbulent time. Civil War was
when he was an infant. Post Civil War was his
younger life where he experienced reconstruction in Louisiana. Being protected
by the Union soldiers, they were able to attend the
(02:35):
same schools as white citizens.
Speaker 3 (02:39):
There were three additions to.
Speaker 4 (02:42):
The US Constitution Amendments, the thirteenth, the fourteenth, and the
fifteenth Amendments. Those amendments came during reconstruction thirteenth Amendment abolished slavery,
Fourteenth Amendment equal protection of the laws, and the fifteenth
(03:02):
Amendment was the right to vote. So those three things
occurred during Reconstruction, and Homoplasy was a young man experiencing
those changes. So it was developing him to not only
enjoy the freedoms that came through reconstruction, but to defend
those rights when they were being taken away. And during
(03:26):
his childhood many protesters and activists of his time set
the pace for him. When he became a young man,
Homo Plus's father died at a young age, and Homoplussy
(03:47):
was about six years old when his father passed away.
His mother remarried into a family called the Due Parts.
Victor Dupart was part of the Unification movement, and Victor
Dupart's fathering Lie Law, was part of the Unification movement.
That movement combined white and black workers who protested for
(04:08):
equal paid and they got it during Reconstruction. However, when
Homer pless He became a young man, those rights were
slowly deteriorating, and Homer Plessey attended these meetings with his stepfather,
Victor Dupart, and he was familiar with the Citizens Committee,
(04:32):
but he was not a member of the Citizens Committee.
Speaker 3 (04:36):
That was a group of eighteen lawyers.
Speaker 4 (04:39):
Businessmen, prominent citizens, mixed race organization. There was some white citizens,
some African American citizens.
Speaker 3 (04:49):
Long in the battle for freedom. I think their history
goes back abolition long.
Speaker 4 (04:56):
Before the Civil War American Revolution. Were also participated in
the Battle of New Orleans. That Citizens Committee had a
deep background in fighting for freedom. A lot of those
uh F ancestors of the Citizens Committee who fought in
the Plus IV Ferguson case at the turn of the
century were very much involved in the development of America.
(05:20):
Homoplacy himself had a relative that was decorated in the
American Revolution. His great grandfather was a gentleman by the
name of Matthew de Vaux. Matthew de vout was decorated
four times in battle in the American Revolution, which not
being recognized as the American Revolution because Louisiana was still
(05:44):
the Louisiana Territory during the UH American Revolution.
Speaker 3 (05:48):
So his history goes back.
Speaker 4 (05:50):
He the right to fight for his freedom was born
with the country, and it it was in his dna
to battle for his rights. When eighteen ninety rolled around
and Louisiana decided to jump into this segregation chain of
(06:11):
laws that were spreading across the South. Florida had adopted
its segregation laws on trains. Alabama was before Louisiana, and
when Louisiana adopted its separate car law was eighteen ninety
and by eighteen ninety one a challenge was being presented
(06:32):
to them to change that law by the Citizens Committee.
Speaker 5 (06:36):
Here in New Orleans, the Withdraw Car Act or Separate
Car Act was a law passed in Louisiana that required
railroad companies to provide equal but separate train car accommodations
for blacks and whites.
Speaker 2 (06:57):
But Homer's case was not the first to challenge separate
car law. Another man who was white, passing Daniel day Dune,
where did it first class car traveling from New Orleans
to Montgomery, Alabama.
Speaker 4 (07:10):
When Homer Pleas was selected, the state law was being challenged.
The interstate law allowed trains outside the state of Louisiana,
so it didn't apply separate call or didn't apply to
those trains. But the trains to travel within the state
of Louisiana, the ones who were.
Speaker 3 (07:25):
Restricted by race in each car.
Speaker 4 (07:33):
Well, if you look at the Louisiana law as it
was written, you had a first class car that was
designated for white citizens and a second class car that
was designated for anyone of color. In the system of
the East Louisiana Railroad.
Speaker 3 (07:51):
They would have preferred to.
Speaker 4 (07:52):
Sell all first class tickets as opposed to a separate
car that had to be set up. Instance, the white
car was not full. One black citizen comes up to
ride the train. You have to prepare another car for
this guy, and you have a schedule to meet. When
your train is taken off, it's going to one from
(08:13):
one area to another. The delay that process by changing
the car, having to add a car to the train
took off a lot of time from the schedule.
Speaker 3 (08:25):
Which resulted in post service.
Speaker 4 (08:28):
So you know, those who who wanted to exercise segregation
on those trains had to suffer being late for their appointments.
Speaker 3 (08:39):
So it didn't make sense.
Speaker 1 (08:43):
And you're listening to Keith Plussy and what a story
this is, and anyone who's ever read the case, and
you can actually just type in plus E. V. Ferguson
and read the opinion, because it's astonishing. And when we
come back, we're going to continue with Keith Plussy's voice
and again a direct relative, a descendant of Homer Plusy,
(09:04):
and my goodness, it's a name you've heard, but it's
real life person. And that's why we loved telling you
these stories. These were real life people, and without them
doing what they did, things wouldn't have changed. And it
took a lot of courage to do what he did.
When we come back, more of the story of plus
E v. Ferguson as told by Keith Pluss. It here
(09:25):
on our American Stories, and we're back with our American
stories and the story of the US Supreme Court case,
probably the most infamous, the eighteen ninety six Plus ev.
(09:48):
Ferguson case. When we last left off, Homer plus he
was working with an organization to actually get caught so
they could start the legal battle that would land them
at the Supreme Court. When one looked at Plusy, they
couldn't tell if he was white or black. And this
is part of how they hoped to challenge the separation
of individuals into white cars in black cars. Here's Homer's
(10:10):
descendant again, Keith Plessy, continuing with this story.
Speaker 4 (10:17):
Now, that law also created another problem, which was how
do you tell that a person's black or a person's white.
Speaker 3 (10:26):
In New Orleans, you had so many.
Speaker 4 (10:28):
Citizens who appeared to be white, but they were actually black,
and it was hard for the conductors to determine the
race of someone.
Speaker 3 (10:37):
Until today, it's.
Speaker 4 (10:38):
Still a problem because you know, I have a personal
take on that, which I say that one of the
most ridiculous rules that were developed back then was called
the one drop rule, that if you had one drop
of African blood in your line, your geniality line, that
you were considered black. And in Homo Plessy's case, one
(11:02):
of the most ridiculous things that they were saying was
that he was one eighth black because of his great grandmother, Agnes,
who was a slave, so he was considered an octor room.
You know, I mean, that's kind of ridiculous to try
to have a meter to measure someone's race. You know,
(11:24):
it just it went into so many ridiculous that, you know,
rather than being recognized as a human being, as a person,
you had to talk about somebody's color the skin.
Speaker 3 (11:37):
You know, just didn't make any sense to me.
Speaker 4 (11:44):
The Citizens Committee had already cut a deal with the
East Louisiana Railroad to work on this plan to change
the law. So when Homo Plessy approached that train station,
he was already expected to arrive. He purchased his ticket
without conflict. He entered the train the train call which
(12:07):
was designated for whites only, and he sat down well.
The conductor and the arresting officer were also hired by
the Citizens Committee and the East Louisiana Railroad to arrest
Homer Plessy and take him off that train so that
they can challenge the law. He was bailed out because
the bail was set so he could be released.
Speaker 2 (12:31):
The initial criminal case was overseen by Judge John Howard Ferguson,
and he ruled that Louisiana was able to regulate their
interest state travel in whatever manner they deemed fit. After
the verdict was passed, the Citizens Committee stepped in and
appealed the case up to the state Supreme Court.
Speaker 4 (12:48):
That result of the case was appealed to the US
Supreme Court, and it was challenged in the US Supreme
Court by Homer.
Speaker 3 (12:56):
Pleasing in the Citizens Committee.
Speaker 4 (12:59):
And that's when it became Plessy Versus Ferguson, and it
became a national case. What the Citizens Committee did to
raise money to represent Homer Plessing. I think the phrase,
if I can get it correct, was the uh liberality
of the rich and the might of the poor combined.
(13:21):
So you had a list around the United States of
people who sent a dollar, who sent ten dollars, some
people sent fifty cents, but everybody combined created the fund
to represent Homer Plessy in the US Supreme Court, and
it was a national representation. It was fought for about
(13:43):
four years. However, it was unsuccessful. As history would write it.
The decision was separate but equal became in the law
of land. But in that instance, a new era of
civil rights pioneers were developing around the scene of that case,
(14:04):
a fight that continued to actually change the law. After
a separate but equal was adopted as the law of land,
many other areas that were not segregated became segregated. So
it brought about a backward step to America that I
(14:24):
think it was a crippling situation, probably one of the worst,
if not the worst decisions at a point in American
history where we could have actually turned the tables on
the inequalities that the country was producing. At the same time,
with this narrative of equal justice for all, it was
(14:48):
not being practiced at that time, and it was given teeth.
Jim Crow gave segregation teeth to bite into American society
in every facet possible. I mean, you had drinking fountains,
parks didn't allow.
Speaker 3 (15:04):
You to come into certain areas.
Speaker 4 (15:08):
Even when I was a kid, there was a park
that exercised weekends for white kids and black kids had
to squeeze in a little time in the park during
the week after school and the weekends where everybody was out.
Speaker 3 (15:23):
Of school, we couldn't go in that park.
Speaker 4 (15:31):
I was born in nineteen fifty seven, so that's a
long time after eighteen ninety six, and you know, it
was still affecting my life as a kid growing up
in New Orleans. Eventually, Brown versus Board of Education changed
(15:54):
Homer Plusy's case. The Plusy decision changed the landscape of
civil rights law at that point, but transportation still was
not changed until maybe the sixties, when you had the
Civil Rights Act signed. There was still buses being attacked,
so the transportation issue was not solved. There was education
(16:18):
in Brownie Bourdon. I remember as a child in elementary
school being told that I was related to Homer plessic.
Speaker 3 (16:29):
One of my teachers who I can remember, Miss Water.
Speaker 4 (16:33):
She brought the phone book into the room and while
we were talking about Plessy Versus Ferguson, she looked at
my name, stood me up in front of the class
and told the kids, Keith's last name is spelled just
like Homer Plessics.
Speaker 2 (16:51):
But it wasn't until much later that Keith realized how
closely related he was to Homer.
Speaker 4 (16:58):
Nineteen ninety six when I met author Keith Weldon Medley,
and this gentleman was doing research on Homer Plessey. He
had done extensive research and his book was being developed
was called Us Freeman Plessy Versus Ferguson to Fight Against Segregation,
and his book entailed the genealogy of Homer Plessy's family,
(17:25):
and that's when I really found out my connection to
Homer Plessy, to my great grandfather.
Speaker 3 (17:31):
And also at the.
Speaker 4 (17:32):
Same time he was doing research on Judge John Howard Ferguson.
Speaker 2 (17:37):
And not long after, Phoebe Ferguson, Judge Ferguson's great great granddaughter,
and Keith Plessi, whose great grandfather was Homer Plusse's cousin.
Speaker 3 (17:45):
Would meet.
Speaker 4 (17:48):
He invited us to his book signing, which we had
never seen or known of each other before then, and
at his book signing we met for the first time.
And when I first met missus Ferguson, she shook her
hand and she began to apologize for slavery, segregation, and
(18:09):
anything that ever went wrong during racial relations. And I
kind of interrupted her and said, hey, it's not our
fault that those things happen. We can do something different.
It's no longer pleasing versus Ferguson. It's Plessy and Ferguson.
So we became friends at that instant, and we've been
friends ever since. And it took us from two thousand
(18:33):
and four to two thousand and nine when we actually
developed the foundation. We signed our letters of incorporation at
a restaurant called Cafe and reconciled when we signed our
papers there. We didn't realize that on July ninth we
(18:55):
were signing those papers the fourteenth Amendment. It was adopted
to the US Constitution on July to ninth, eighteen sixty eight.
Speaker 1 (19:06):
And great job is always to Robbie and the Plussy
and Ferguson Foundation is doing a lot to educate folks. Together.
Heath Plussy and Phoebe Ferguson are spreading their message that
their mutual history can be a tool to create unity
and understanding. I wanted to read you the lone dissenting opinion.
Everyone knows that the statute in question had its origin
(19:28):
in the purpose not so much to exclude white people
from railroad cars occupied by blacks, but as to exclude
colored people from coaches occupied by or assigned to white people.
Our constitution is colorblind and neither knows nor tolerates classes
among citizens in respective civil rights. All citizens are equal
before the law. The humblest is the peer of the
(19:49):
most powerful. The law regards man as man and takes
no account of his surroundings or of his color when
his civil rights, as guaranteed by the supreme law of
the land or involved. And that is just just Harlan dissenting.
Speaker 3 (20:01):
And plus E v.
Speaker 1 (20:02):
Ferguson in eighteen ninety six plus E v. Ferguson is
told by Keith Plussy the story here on our American
Stories
Host
Lee Habeeb
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
New Heights with Jason & Travis Kelce
Football’s funniest family duo — Jason Kelce of the Philadelphia Eagles and Travis Kelce of the Kansas City Chiefs — team up to provide next-level access to life in the league as it unfolds. The two brothers and Super Bowl champions drop weekly insights about the weekly slate of games and share their INSIDE perspectives on trending NFL news and sports headlines. They also endlessly rag on each other as brothers do, chat the latest in pop culture and welcome some very popular and well-known friends to chat with them. Check out new episodes every Wednesday. Follow New Heights on the Wondery App, YouTube or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to new episodes early and ad-free, and get exclusive content on Wondery+. Join Wondery+ in the Wondery App, Apple Podcasts or Spotify. And join our new membership for a unique fan experience by going to the New Heights YouTube channel now!
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.