July 2, 2024 • 38 mins
On this episode of Our American Stories, Oliver Halle shares stories from service in the Navy during the Vietnam War, and also about his family, who resisted the Nazis and fled to America. And, ultimately: a secret that would forever change his life. The Veterans' History Project at the Atlanta History Center provides unedited first-person interviews from men and women who served our great country.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:12):
This is Lee Habib, and this is our American Stories,
and we tell stories about everything here on this show,
from the arts to sports, and from business to history
and everything in between, including your story. Send them to
our American Stories dot com. Our next one is brought
to us with permission from the Veteran's History Project at
the Atlanta History Center. The Veterans History Project provides unedited,
(00:34):
first person interviews from men and women who've served our
great country. Today, we'll be hearing from Oliver Halley, who
will share with us a bit about his experiences in
the United States Navy during the Vietnam War. We will
also be hearing about the unearthed family secret that would
forever change his life. Here's Oliver.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
I grew up in a small family. My mother and
father were only children, so I had no ane's, no uncles,
no cousins. I had two brothers, my older brother, who
died in two thousand and nine he was two years older,
and my younger brother, who's almost two years younger than
I am.
Speaker 3 (01:12):
He still lives in New York.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
My father and his family emigrated from Nazi Germany in
nineteen thirty five or so, and my mother was born
in Brooklyn, but her father was born and raised in
Germany and came here as a young man. And my
mother's mother was born in Brooklyn as well, and we
(01:36):
moved to Brooklyn when I was a baby, So I
have no memory of where I was born whatsoever. My
first memories beginning Brooklyn, and then we moved to Staten
Island when I was seven, and that's where I grew up.
Two my father and mother built a legend around our family.
Speaker 3 (01:57):
Again, I knew that my father and his family.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
Had moved from emigrated from Nazi Germany, but they built
a legend around that, and the legend had to do
with that his father, my grandfather, who.
Speaker 3 (02:10):
I didn't know. He was killed in a car accident
in nineteen thirty nine.
Speaker 2 (02:14):
I did know that, and he was a prominent surgeon
in New York. And the legend was that they resisted
the Third Reich. My father was in an underground movement
and it was all very romantic, and that was the
story that I grew up with. But when I was
(02:35):
growing up, everybody went in the military.
Speaker 3 (02:39):
That was just the way it was. A lot of
people don't know that.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
The draft began in June of nineteen forty and it
didn't end until I think roughly nineteen seventy five. So
even during the peacetime between the Korean War and Vietnam,
people were being drafted in my high school. You know,
people eat the voluntar, went into the military and it
was acceptable. Nobody even thought about avoiding it if they
(03:05):
got if they didn't want to join, they were drafted
and they didn't complain. That's just the way it was.
And I grew up in that environment that post World
War Two. Used to see a lot of veterans from
World War Two during parades. It was always a big
deal and it was it's just what you did that
it was your turn to step up when it came time.
(03:25):
So there was never any dobt in my mind I
would go into service. And growing up in New York
and seeing the ships in New York, Harbod, I was
attracted to the Navy. It just it was just there
was never any doubt that's where I wanted to go.
So my friend Kenny, I don't I don't remember where,
but somewhere he.
Speaker 3 (03:44):
Heard about swift boats. I said, what's a swift boat?
Speaker 2 (03:47):
And he described it as best he could, and I said,
I'm going to volunteer for that.
Speaker 3 (03:53):
I said, well, you know what, I'll volunteer with you.
I know.
Speaker 2 (03:56):
We arrived in Vietnam on September twenty seventh, nineteen sixty nine,
and when we got off the plane, you see all
these sandbags and we landed in Cameron Bay. Cameron Bay
was one of the swift boat bases and it was
the headquarters for Coastal Squadron I, and then from there
we were going to be farmed out.
Speaker 3 (04:16):
To one of five coastal divisions.
Speaker 2 (04:20):
And I remember seeing the sandbags and seeing you know,
you say, wow, we were definitely in a war zone.
When you saw that, you saw everybody in fatigues, and
you had army there and avy and Air.
Speaker 3 (04:33):
Force, and they said, whoa, this is the real deal.
So that was my impression.
Speaker 2 (04:39):
So on Christmas Eve day to December twenty fourth, I
think it was a C one thirty flew ust down
to cat Low and the boats were already there and
we were happy. So we get there and I remember
we were sleeping that night in Low in some barracks,
(05:03):
and I remember the next morning just I guess it
was before the you know, the truth went in with
the Christmas truth winning in effect. But it was my
first introduction to B fifty two bombing somewhere in the area.
I don't know exactly where, but I mean it was incredible.
I couldn't believe how the ground was shaken, and you know,
(05:25):
and it's like whoa. I mean, you know, I hadn't
experienced that in Danang and Danang.
Speaker 3 (05:33):
We worked in Danang.
Speaker 2 (05:35):
Marines operated out of I Corps where we were, that's it.
And we did work somewhere the US Marines up in
I Corps along the Courdai River. This particular day, again
I don't remember why, but we were transporting Korean marines
these rocks to Hooian.
Speaker 3 (05:57):
I don't remember, you know what you know why? Well,
I know is somebody, you know.
Speaker 2 (06:01):
We were given an order, you know, take pick these
rocks up, take them the Joyan a few miles up
the river. So there was a sergeant and probably you know,
maybe ten or twelve of these Korean marines, and we
had on board. We had searched a couple of sandpans
(06:21):
in the river, and I remember vaguely, I remember that
we took several women prisoners because they didn't have paperwork
and they may have had some contraband, no weapons, but
they may have had contraband. I don't remember why, and
it's not particularly important. All I remember is we took
them on board and handcuffed them because they had done
(06:46):
something and we were going to turn them over to
Navy intelligence in Joaiyan. So we had these Korean Marines
on board too, and these were young vietting, these wimmen.
And I was in the pilot house where that's where
I normally stayed when we're moving.
Speaker 3 (07:01):
I'm in a pilot house.
Speaker 1 (07:03):
And you've been listening to Oliver Halley recount his early
days right up to his enlistment and volunteer enlistment in
the Vietnam War. He volunteered for swift boat duty in
September of nineteen sixty nine, and everything changed. We'll hear
more of Oliver's story here on Our American Stories. Plea
(07:32):
Habibi here, the host of our American Stories. Every day
on this show, we're bringing inspiring stories from across this
great country, stories from our big cities and small towns.
But we truly can't do the show without you. Our
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(07:54):
a little, give a lot. Go to Auramerican stories dot
com and give and we continue with our American stories
in Oliver Halle's story, Let's return where we last left off.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
So I'm up in the palace. One of my uh
you know, crew members came up to me. So mister
Halley said, we got a problem. He said, these uh
kream marines they want to rape these women.
Speaker 3 (08:37):
I said, well, what he said? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (08:39):
He said they're eyeing them over and they're pointing, and
then you know, and they making motions.
Speaker 3 (08:43):
And all this. I said, whoa.
Speaker 2 (08:46):
So I went back after and I went up to
the sergeant. He was the senior petty officer, not petty officer,
senior ranking guy, and listed the guy there was no officer.
I'm trying to speak to him in English. I say,
you know, I'm pointing to say you women, you know, touch,
no touch, you know, and you know no English, no English,
(09:08):
no no no no touch, no touch. And the other guys,
the other enlistenment, I can see they're getting angry.
Speaker 3 (09:15):
Now, they're getting anger.
Speaker 2 (09:17):
The sergeant is trying to you know, even though he
didn't speak English, he understood what I was trying to say.
Now he's getting confrontational. So I told my crew members,
I said, put the weapons on him, put them on them.
And it was it was tense. It was very tense.
(09:40):
They they would determined they were going to have their way, and.
Speaker 3 (09:43):
I was determined they weren't.
Speaker 2 (09:44):
And we made it to Hawaiian as soon and I
told the sergeant, I said, you know you touch women.
I said, you're captain. He cocked it out. You cock
it out, your captain, He cocked it. I kept saying that,
you know, kagod Eyeu and so anyway, we've got to
Hawaiian And as soon as we got there, I reported
(10:08):
these you know this, Sojeant and his troops to you know,
the our intelligence people, and they, you know, reported wherever when.
I have no idea what happened after that. But fortunately
these women, you know, we're not assaulted, and it would
have been impossible to let that have happened. It's just
some things you just can't do, you know. I mean,
that's not our American values, it really isn't. I mean,
(10:30):
even at that age, I understood that much. That's that's
not who we are as Americans.
Speaker 3 (10:34):
We don't do that.
Speaker 2 (10:35):
And now to segue into something a little bit amusing,
I'm back down again in Coastal Division eleven, you know,
down there in the Gulf of Thailand and the Pacific
Ocean area, and my commodore, Lieutenant Commander Bill Martin, he
(10:57):
called me in.
Speaker 3 (10:58):
I was hot wherever I was.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
He called me into the headquarters immediately, so I go back.
Speaker 3 (11:06):
I had no idea what was going on.
Speaker 2 (11:08):
And he says, he hands me a teletype, and I
read this teletype my heart's sake, and the best I recall,
I wish I had a copy of it. It said
something like this from Commander in Chief Pacific two, you know,
(11:28):
command a Coastal Squadron one, Coastal Division eleven. Boom boom,
subject of presidential interest. I remember those words of presidential interest.
And I'm paraphrasing here. And it goes on to say,
as follows, Ruth Hallie Gorman, the mother of Lieutenant jg.
Speaker 3 (11:51):
Olivi G.
Speaker 2 (11:52):
Halle Staten Allen, New York, has written to the President
of the United States, Richard M. Nixon, that her son
is not getting his mail, and the President has ordered
an immediate inquiry to determine why he isn't getting his mail.
(12:12):
And I was flawed because I had never complained to
my mother I wasn't getting my mail. That didn't happen.
I never said a word that I wasn't getting my mail.
Speaker 3 (12:22):
Nothing.
Speaker 2 (12:22):
I was getting my mail. It wasn't a problem. So
I'm speechless and embarrassed. I mean, this thing went out
to the entire seventh Fleet, this communication of presidential interest.
Speaker 3 (12:35):
So the commodore was.
Speaker 2 (12:38):
Very sympathetic, and he said, well, we have to respond
to this immediately. When he suggests, I said, well, Commodode,
I'm getting my mail. I mean, I don't know where
my mother's coming from. I can't pick up a phone
to call her and ask her what's going on. So
I remember, we responded that I had been in transit
and had been moving around, and apparently the mail hadn't
(13:00):
kept up, but there was no problem. Be assured that
there is no problem. Everything's fine and.
Speaker 3 (13:08):
It's okay.
Speaker 2 (13:09):
So when I got home, I have a copy somewhere
in a box. I know that of a letter from
a general in the Pentagon. How that works, you know,
since I'm in the Navy. But who knows, But anyway,
I remember it was a general in the Pentagon who
had written my mother that on behalf.
Speaker 3 (13:29):
Of the president or something like that.
Speaker 2 (13:31):
They were looking into why I wasn't getting my mail.
Like I say, it was a very embarrassing thing to me.
But when I asked my mother when I got home
almost a year later, I said.
Speaker 4 (13:41):
Why did you do that?
Speaker 3 (13:43):
I said, I was getting my mail? Why did you
do that? Oh? I remember her saying, is you weren't
getting your mail?
Speaker 2 (13:48):
Okay, So I do have you know something that is
very critical to who I am. And back in the
nineteen thirties, my maternal grandparents had a correspondence with a
(14:11):
woman in Australia named Estherbuck. Estherbuck was a teacher in
Australia and she communicated or wrote letters. I should say,
they correspondent only by mail. And we're all of the same,
roughly the same age. You remember back then in the seventies,
I'm talking about sixties and seventies, you had that paper.
(14:35):
You bought it at the post office. I think they
call it flypaper because it was so light, and you
would write a letter and then you would fold it.
Remember that you would fold it over and put a
stamp on it. But it was so light, and you'd
send it by airmail because it was cheap. But back then,
if you remember, they were air mail rates versus first class,
whereas today there's no distinction.
Speaker 3 (14:55):
Okay, So.
Speaker 2 (14:58):
This correspondence my grandfather, my mother's father and her mother.
They were both educators, as was my mother in New York,
and they had this correspondence. They got through the park
A Penn company. It was just one of those professional things.
And over the years I got to know each other
only by mail. I had never spoken. So when my
(15:20):
grandfather became too sick, my mother picked up the correspondents.
So we're talking probably about the late nineteen forties, early
nineteen fifties. So my mother wrote to Estherbuck and they correspondent,
you know, maybe once a month, once every couple months.
And I remember Miss Buck, that's what I called her.
She would send us little trinkets for Christmas, that kind
(15:42):
of thing. But again they never spoke. All of this
was by mail all these years. So now I'm in
Vietnam and it was arranged that I would meet Miss
Buck on R and R and I was lucky. I
got two RN R's FIRSTWIE was in of nineteen seventy.
I went to Hong Kong, and then the second one,
(16:03):
the commodod was really generous about that went to Sydney.
So my mother arranged by mail for me to meet her.
So I was pretty excited too. This is a big deal.
And the way it was going to work is I
was going to meet her at her home and then
my mother was going to call while I was there. Now,
(16:26):
again we're all at the same age. These young people
have no idea. But when you called internationally back then.
Speaker 3 (16:33):
You had to call the overseas operator.
Speaker 2 (16:35):
Remember that you called. Maybe you don't be cause if
you never made an international call. It wasn't very common.
It was expensive. But you call the international operator and
you'd say I'd like the places call the Sydney Australia
and the international operator would tell you that it might
be an hour, might be two, might be three, depending
on the traffic before they could get a line. So
(16:56):
the plan was hopefully it would all fall in the place.
While I was there, my mother would be calling in.
The date was September eighth, nineteen seventy and I've written
a book, but it pertains to This business I have
is speaking business, and I have a chapter in a
(17:17):
book called Life Changing versus Life Shaping Experiences. September eighth,
nineteen seventy changed my life forever.
Speaker 3 (17:30):
Forever.
Speaker 1 (17:32):
And you're listening to Oliver Halley, and again we want
to thank the Veterans History Project at the Atlanta History
Center for this story. And we're going to find out
what happened on that day when we come back more
of Oliver Halle's story here on our American Stories, and
(18:08):
we continue with our American stories in Oliver Halley's story.
Let's pick up where we last left off.
Speaker 2 (18:14):
September eighth, nineteen seventy changed my life forever forever. I
don't know why I'm getting emotional, but I think about it.
(18:36):
I told you earlier in this interview in the beginning
that my mother and father were only children. I had
no relatives, and on my father's side, in particularly a
lot of mysteries that I never knew the answers to.
Speaker 3 (18:51):
My father.
Speaker 2 (18:54):
Had committed suicide on May the ninth, nineteen sixty six,
in college.
Speaker 3 (19:00):
I was twenty years old. I was a junior in
college at the time.
Speaker 2 (19:06):
And in that book that I wrote, I put in
there that you know, he just could not outrun the
demons that had chased him from the Third Reich. And he,
as I said earlier, he had built up the sledgend.
He was in this German underground movement and they got
into street fights and all of that. Well, it turned
out that's all true, that part is all true. What
(19:28):
never made sense to me as I got older was
why with a wealthy family, Because my father came from
a wealthy family. He was an only child. His father
was a very prominent surgeon. And I didn't know until
I sent you the story of New York Times. I
didn't know until this year, until this year, February of
(19:50):
this year, that he had actually been a physician for
Kuys of Wilhelm and zah Nicholas of Russia. I didn't
know that until from the New York Sue has seen
the sorry to New York Times nineteen thirty nine when
he was killed in a car accident. So anyway, he
committed suicide four years earlier. And I'm sitting with miss
(20:15):
Buck and she had never married. She was a woman,
probably in the seventies at the time, and she was
so excited to see me I mean, oh, she was
just fluttering here and flarting them. I'm so excited to
finally meet somebody from Halle family after all these years.
This is oh so happy, finally, you know, this is wonderful.
(20:39):
And I can't wait for your mother to call, you know,
I'm just so looking forward to that.
Speaker 3 (20:46):
And then she said as follows.
Speaker 2 (20:51):
She said, and I don't remember her exact words. I
was too stunned, and so I'm close, but these are not.
Speaker 3 (21:00):
The exact words.
Speaker 2 (21:01):
I just don't remember what they were. I wish I did,
but I don't. She said something like this, did your
mother ever reconcile with her father from marrying outside the faith?
And I looked at miss Buck and I said, miss Buck,
I don't understand your question. My mother and father, you know,
(21:23):
were Protestants. I don't know what you mean by marrying
outside the faith. And she said no, no, no, no, no.
She said your mother was Jewish she married your father.
But I said, my mother's not Jewish. He said, of
course she is, and she's my head.
Speaker 3 (21:41):
At that moment exploded.
Speaker 2 (21:44):
You know how you get shocking news, whatever the really
shocking news.
Speaker 3 (21:48):
That's what happened to me.
Speaker 2 (21:49):
It was like that because I had experienced anti Semitism
growing up. I grew up a Methodist, but I experienced
a lot of anti Semitism. I don't care anybody you
know that I don't know I look Jewish, Okay, I
mean there is a stereotype, and I'm one of them.
My head explored. I couldn't believe what I was hearing.
(22:10):
So she saw the look on my face and.
Speaker 3 (22:14):
She stopped short.
Speaker 2 (22:15):
She says, oh my god, I hope I didn't say
anything I shouldn't have said. And I said no, I said,
I'm glad you did. But she didn't say another word. Well,
my mother called in and we all had a very
nice chat. Didn't bring Anitas up, and Miss Buck was
so excited to finally talk to my mother. And I
(22:39):
left Vietnam I think September twenty third, so it was
a couple of weeks or so later, and got to
San Francisco and I outprocessed from active duty to the reserves.
Speaker 3 (22:56):
It took I think five days. I was a treasure island, you.
Speaker 2 (23:00):
Know, about an hour a day, you know, did administrative
stuff and they cut you loose. So at the end
of the week I flew from San Francisco to New York.
A friend of mine picked me up and I went
to my mother's house till I could find a place
to live. A couple weeks later, and I'm unpacking my
(23:20):
sea bag and this has really been weighing on my mind.
And as I'm unpacking my sea bag, I said to
my mother, why didn't you tell us we were Jewish?
And she said, what where did you get that nonsense from?
Speaker 3 (23:36):
Those are her words?
Speaker 2 (23:39):
And I said, miss Buck told me and my mother
very uncharacteristically.
Speaker 3 (23:45):
She was very polished, very.
Speaker 2 (23:46):
Educated, very uncharacteristically.
Speaker 3 (23:50):
She said, as fuck as a liar. She didn't talk
that way.
Speaker 2 (23:55):
I said, no, I said, miss Buck told the truth,
and very uncharacteristically, my mother completely broke down, I mean
really broke down, crying, and she said, please don't tell
your brothers, and I said I have to. Well, as
(24:18):
the years went by, I would try and talk to
my mother about this, she shut it down. She'd act
like I wasn't even in a room. If I ch
wanna change the subject, she'd look up and talk about it.
She wouldn't talk about it, absolutely refused. So I never
learned anything from my mother, nothing, And she and my
(24:39):
father had destroyed a lot of documents, so over the years,
it would take me too long to tell, and it
doesn't fit in with the Vietnam part of the story,
so I'll just kind of synopsize it real quickly. I
learned a lot on my own through reading books, and
then when the Internet came in, being learned a little bit.
(25:02):
And so the bottom line is this. My grandfather on
my father's side was Jewish for sure, one hundred percent.
I have the records to support.
Speaker 3 (25:11):
That he was Jewish.
Speaker 2 (25:14):
And my maternal my paternal grandmother was a Lutheran.
Speaker 3 (25:22):
My father was raised a Lutheran. So in the Jewish faith.
Speaker 2 (25:24):
You know, the bloodline carries on the mother's side, not
the father's side. So even though my father was half Jewish,
he wouldn't be recognized.
Speaker 3 (25:33):
As Jewish by Jewish people.
Speaker 2 (25:37):
So that comment about did your mother have a reconcile
with her father, and in fact, my mother married outside the
faith even though my father was half Jewish.
Speaker 1 (25:46):
And you've been listening to Oliver Halley and what a
story he's telling, and this is just a side story.
With these side stories, well, they informed so much about
all of our lives. September eighth, the day that changed
his life forever. And my goodness, why didn't you tell
us we were Jewish? What an identity crisis for this
(26:07):
young man. Also, he was learning that everything he ever
thought was true because he always thought he was Jewish,
he looked Jewish. Where did you get that nonsense? The
mom said, And my goodness, she then said, miss Buck
is a liar. And he knew then, he knew for
sure that it was true. And then the reality said it,
(26:27):
and his mom, well, she just broke down and she
just started to cry, revealing her human side. But never
came clean, never told the real story. And by the way,
we learned that again and again here on our American stories,
particularly the World War two generation. So many of them
just wouldn't come clean about what happened. Maybe it was
so horrible they couldn't process it. Who knows what the
reasons are. When we come back more of Oliver Halley's story,
(26:52):
and it's a beauty here on our American stories. And
(27:37):
we continue here with our American stories, Let's continue with
Oliver Hally.
Speaker 2 (27:42):
So, my father and his mother were estranged. I don't
know why to this day. That's a secret that will
go to the grave. I will never know the answer
to that. It kills me not to know, but I'll
never know.
Speaker 3 (27:58):
I do not know.
Speaker 2 (28:01):
My father would write her letters. She lived in Queens
when we lived on Sutton Island. My father would write
her letters. And I still see this in my mind's eye.
They would come back unopened and they would be a stamp,
you know, this kind of stamp on the envelope, and
it would be of a hand pointing this like this
(28:22):
and it would say return to Senda refused with check
mark refused. And she died in uh February nineteen fifty nine.
But I never met her and don't to this day.
I don't know why they were strange.
Speaker 3 (28:36):
I have no idea. So that day changed my life forever.
Speaker 2 (28:41):
When you find out you, uh, there's more to your
past and it's very different than you were brought up
to believe it it that has a profound effect. So
that's the life changing experience. Life shaping, without question, was
my time in the Navy, and certainly in Vietnam.
Speaker 3 (29:02):
I went over to Vietnam I.
Speaker 2 (29:03):
Was twenty three years old as an officer in charge
of a swift boat. I came home I was twenty four,
and to have that kind of responsibility at that young age.
If that won't shape you, nothing will. After Vietnam, I
spent a year trying to get into law school, but
(29:26):
working this odd job I had had when I was
in high school just to mark time I got into
law school. I began in August of nineteen seventy one
at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill and
went through law school knowing that my career plan was
(29:46):
to become an FBI agent. There was never any doubt
that's what I wanted to do. I had formed that
plan years earlier when I knew I wasn't going to
be Chief Naval Operations, and I figured that out in
high school. By the way, in high school, so my
career in the FBI, you have two tracks, you know,
the investigative side, and then you can choose to go
(30:09):
into management.
Speaker 3 (30:09):
It's not like the military.
Speaker 2 (30:11):
You know, it's mandatory promotions here eye you know, people
choose in the FBI if they want to go into management.
Speaker 3 (30:16):
And I had no interest in it.
Speaker 2 (30:17):
After having the experience that I had a Navy, particularly
in Vietnam, I figured nothing could rival that. Nothing, nothing,
not even close. And then, and I love the FBI.
In my career, I had twenty eight years. It was
a free ticket to a show. I loved it. But
to be kind, the best leadership I saw was in
(30:40):
the Navy. I started late in life with children. I'm
married to Mollie Johnson Halle. She's from Charleston, South Carolina.
She I met her in New York. She was an
FBI agent as well, and she was chief Division Council
for the FBI office in Atlanta for most of her career.
But we met New York. And I was just short
(31:02):
of forty one when my oldest daughter, Caitlin was born,
just short of forty two when my second daughter, Victoria
was born.
Speaker 3 (31:10):
They're Irish twins. The twelve days short of a year apart.
Speaker 2 (31:14):
And then my son is in his fourth year of
medical school at Emory. And this is only a coincidence.
It was not planned this way. But my son, Tyler,
is following in the footsteps of his grandfather, who was
an ear nosed throat surgeon. And that's coincidence. He didn't
do it for that reason. He didn't even really know
(31:35):
about it until recently.
Speaker 3 (31:36):
So I'd like to close with this.
Speaker 2 (31:45):
One of the things that my father did when we
lived in Brooklyn and I was a young boy, and
I remember so vividly on a lot of weekends he
would go into Manhattan and he was volunteer for Church
World In Church World Service, even to this day, I
think sponsors immigrants. And my father went down there, and
(32:14):
you can picture this, these ships coming in from Europe,
with thousands refugees coming to New York. You had organizations
(32:39):
like Church World Service sponsored these people, people who had
nowhere to go, no homes, lost families.
Speaker 3 (32:57):
They are a very profound effect on me.
Speaker 4 (33:01):
If you read the words, and I know you have
of Emma Lazarus on the Statue of Liberty, give me
a poor You're wretched, Get timming masses. However, and my
father and his family before I was born, obviously coming
(33:23):
to New York. Can don't imagine what they thought when
they saw the Statue of Liberty. So he volunteered his
time to help refugees, and one of 'em came to
live with us for several years. Sergei Scholhakov. He was
a Russian.
Speaker 2 (33:42):
He had been a veterinarian and in a Russian army,
in a Russian cavalry. I I don't remember whether he
was captured or what happened, but either way, he ended
up in a refugee camp in Europe after the war.
He was on one of these ships, and what I
remember is this, he was coming off the ship and
(34:05):
people being processed.
Speaker 3 (34:07):
My father.
Speaker 2 (34:07):
I remember the story saying, you know, he's one of mine.
He came with him and he lived with us for
several years, and then for health reasons, he moved to Miami,
but we stayed in touch, and I last saw him
when I was in the navy. A ship was in
Fort Lauderdale and I called him and I spent the
night with him. A wonderful man, wonderful man. He loved
(34:29):
this country, what he gave him. He lost everything in
the war, He lost his family everything.
Speaker 3 (34:36):
I think of my.
Speaker 2 (34:36):
Father and all of that, and you say, how can
you not give back? You know, how can you not
do that? This country gave my father and his family
a home when they were evicted from This was the
Vietnam War, one of those wars like World War Two,
(35:00):
that you know you're fighting to defend your country. I
can't say that it was, and I won't, but that's
not the point. The point was that military service was
something that came to be expected, and people in my generation,
not everybody. Obviously, we had a lot of people who
(35:20):
didn't share my view, but a lot did you know,
we did our time we came back from Vietnam, people say, well,
you know, the people spit on you or anything.
Speaker 3 (35:34):
No, No, I never had that.
Speaker 2 (35:36):
Nobody cared when I got back. Nobody cared. You were
a Vietnam veteran. So what In law school, in my class,
we probably had ten or fifteen Vietnam veterans.
Speaker 3 (35:48):
You know, we would talk casu.
Speaker 2 (35:50):
We were probably you know, we weren't all close friends,
but we got along very well. We could at least
if there's anything about the war it was still going on, we.
Speaker 3 (35:57):
Could talk about it. You didn't talk about it with
other people. They didn't care. It was irrelevant.
Speaker 2 (36:01):
It meant it was just they couldn't relate to it.
It was only when Ronald Reagan dedicated the tomb of
the Unknown Soldier to the Vietnam miss him and I
watched it on TV live, Oh my god, that was powerful.
And Ronald Reagan made it okay to be Vietnam better,
(36:23):
and he was.
Speaker 3 (36:23):
That was the first.
Speaker 2 (36:25):
It was okay, then I could wear a T shirt
you know, Vietnam better.
Speaker 3 (36:28):
I never did before that. Never.
Speaker 2 (36:30):
I didn't talk about it. I didn't talk about it
because you know, oh, I can't talk about it. I
have bad memories of I have pts and no.
Speaker 3 (36:37):
Nothing to do with that.
Speaker 2 (36:39):
Nobody cared. Nobody cared. But yeah, that was it. So
I went on with my life and life was good.
My FBI career was fantastic. It was a free ticket
to a show. I traveled all over the world toward
the end of you know, with the FBI. And I
(37:01):
was very lucky in my life.
Speaker 3 (37:03):
I really was lucky.
Speaker 2 (37:05):
Probably I got a few lucky breaks along the way.
Didn't have to, but I did, and I'm grateful for them.
And I've got some plans in my head for what
I'm going to do about paying it forward.
Speaker 1 (37:15):
And we're looking forward to hearing more from Oliver. What
a storyteller, What a life lived? And again a special
thanks to the folks at the Veteran's History Project at
the Atlanta History Center. And again we're always looking for
stories like this from you are our listeners, and my goodness,
what a life well lived after serving in Vietnam, serving
(37:35):
in the FBI for twenty eight years. A free ticket
to the show, he said, late in life to children
like me forty one when he had his daughter Caitlin
forty two Victoria Tyler, who is in medical school, carrying
on a family tradition. But that story of him greeting refugees,
I know that one because my immigrant grandparents made me
do the same thing. I love what he said about Sergei.
(37:58):
He was a wonderful man. He loved his country. He
had lost everything in the war. Everything. He also said, Oliver,
the country gave my father and his father a home.
So true Oliver Halley's story here on our American Stories
This is Lee Habib, and this is our American Stories,
and we tell stories about everything here on this show,
from the arts to sports, and from business to history
and everything in between, including your story. Send them to
our American Stories dot com. Our next one is brought
to us with permission from the Veteran's History Project at
the Atlanta History Center. The Veterans History Project provides unedited,
(00:34):
first person interviews from men and women who've served our
great country. Today, we'll be hearing from Oliver Halley, who
will share with us a bit about his experiences in
the United States Navy during the Vietnam War. We will
also be hearing about the unearthed family secret that would
forever change his life. Here's Oliver.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
I grew up in a small family. My mother and
father were only children, so I had no ane's, no uncles,
no cousins. I had two brothers, my older brother, who
died in two thousand and nine he was two years older,
and my younger brother, who's almost two years younger than
I am.
Speaker 3 (01:12):
He still lives in New York.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
My father and his family emigrated from Nazi Germany in
nineteen thirty five or so, and my mother was born
in Brooklyn, but her father was born and raised in
Germany and came here as a young man. And my
mother's mother was born in Brooklyn as well, and we
(01:36):
moved to Brooklyn when I was a baby, So I
have no memory of where I was born whatsoever. My
first memories beginning Brooklyn, and then we moved to Staten
Island when I was seven, and that's where I grew up.
Two my father and mother built a legend around our family.
Speaker 3 (01:57):
Again, I knew that my father and his family.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
Had moved from emigrated from Nazi Germany, but they built
a legend around that, and the legend had to do
with that his father, my grandfather, who.
Speaker 3 (02:10):
I didn't know. He was killed in a car accident
in nineteen thirty nine.
Speaker 2 (02:14):
I did know that, and he was a prominent surgeon
in New York. And the legend was that they resisted
the Third Reich. My father was in an underground movement
and it was all very romantic, and that was the
story that I grew up with. But when I was
(02:35):
growing up, everybody went in the military.
Speaker 3 (02:39):
That was just the way it was. A lot of
people don't know that.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
The draft began in June of nineteen forty and it
didn't end until I think roughly nineteen seventy five. So
even during the peacetime between the Korean War and Vietnam,
people were being drafted in my high school. You know,
people eat the voluntar, went into the military and it
was acceptable. Nobody even thought about avoiding it if they
(03:05):
got if they didn't want to join, they were drafted
and they didn't complain. That's just the way it was.
And I grew up in that environment that post World
War Two. Used to see a lot of veterans from
World War Two during parades. It was always a big
deal and it was it's just what you did that
it was your turn to step up when it came time.
(03:25):
So there was never any dobt in my mind I
would go into service. And growing up in New York
and seeing the ships in New York, Harbod, I was
attracted to the Navy. It just it was just there
was never any doubt that's where I wanted to go.
So my friend Kenny, I don't I don't remember where,
but somewhere he.
Speaker 3 (03:44):
Heard about swift boats. I said, what's a swift boat?
Speaker 2 (03:47):
And he described it as best he could, and I said,
I'm going to volunteer for that.
Speaker 3 (03:53):
I said, well, you know what, I'll volunteer with you.
I know.
Speaker 2 (03:56):
We arrived in Vietnam on September twenty seventh, nineteen sixty nine,
and when we got off the plane, you see all
these sandbags and we landed in Cameron Bay. Cameron Bay
was one of the swift boat bases and it was
the headquarters for Coastal Squadron I, and then from there
we were going to be farmed out.
Speaker 3 (04:16):
To one of five coastal divisions.
Speaker 2 (04:20):
And I remember seeing the sandbags and seeing you know,
you say, wow, we were definitely in a war zone.
When you saw that, you saw everybody in fatigues, and
you had army there and avy and Air.
Speaker 3 (04:33):
Force, and they said, whoa, this is the real deal.
So that was my impression.
Speaker 2 (04:39):
So on Christmas Eve day to December twenty fourth, I
think it was a C one thirty flew ust down
to cat Low and the boats were already there and
we were happy. So we get there and I remember
we were sleeping that night in Low in some barracks,
(05:03):
and I remember the next morning just I guess it
was before the you know, the truth went in with
the Christmas truth winning in effect. But it was my
first introduction to B fifty two bombing somewhere in the area.
I don't know exactly where, but I mean it was incredible.
I couldn't believe how the ground was shaken, and you know,
(05:25):
and it's like whoa. I mean, you know, I hadn't
experienced that in Danang and Danang.
Speaker 3 (05:33):
We worked in Danang.
Speaker 2 (05:35):
Marines operated out of I Corps where we were, that's it.
And we did work somewhere the US Marines up in
I Corps along the Courdai River. This particular day, again
I don't remember why, but we were transporting Korean marines
these rocks to Hooian.
Speaker 3 (05:57):
I don't remember, you know what you know why? Well,
I know is somebody, you know.
Speaker 2 (06:01):
We were given an order, you know, take pick these
rocks up, take them the Joyan a few miles up
the river. So there was a sergeant and probably you know,
maybe ten or twelve of these Korean marines, and we
had on board. We had searched a couple of sandpans
(06:21):
in the river, and I remember vaguely, I remember that
we took several women prisoners because they didn't have paperwork
and they may have had some contraband, no weapons, but
they may have had contraband. I don't remember why, and
it's not particularly important. All I remember is we took
them on board and handcuffed them because they had done
(06:46):
something and we were going to turn them over to
Navy intelligence in Joaiyan. So we had these Korean Marines
on board too, and these were young vietting, these wimmen.
And I was in the pilot house where that's where
I normally stayed when we're moving.
Speaker 3 (07:01):
I'm in a pilot house.
Speaker 1 (07:03):
And you've been listening to Oliver Halley recount his early
days right up to his enlistment and volunteer enlistment in
the Vietnam War. He volunteered for swift boat duty in
September of nineteen sixty nine, and everything changed. We'll hear
more of Oliver's story here on Our American Stories. Plea
(07:32):
Habibi here, the host of our American Stories. Every day
on this show, we're bringing inspiring stories from across this
great country, stories from our big cities and small towns.
But we truly can't do the show without you. Our
stories are free to listen to, but they're not free
to make If you love what you hear, go to
Ouramerican Stories dot com and click the donate button. Give
(07:54):
a little, give a lot. Go to Auramerican stories dot
com and give and we continue with our American stories
in Oliver Halle's story, Let's return where we last left off.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
So I'm up in the palace. One of my uh
you know, crew members came up to me. So mister
Halley said, we got a problem. He said, these uh
kream marines they want to rape these women.
Speaker 3 (08:37):
I said, well, what he said? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (08:39):
He said they're eyeing them over and they're pointing, and
then you know, and they making motions.
Speaker 3 (08:43):
And all this. I said, whoa.
Speaker 2 (08:46):
So I went back after and I went up to
the sergeant. He was the senior petty officer, not petty officer,
senior ranking guy, and listed the guy there was no officer.
I'm trying to speak to him in English. I say,
you know, I'm pointing to say you women, you know, touch,
no touch, you know, and you know no English, no English,
(09:08):
no no no no touch, no touch. And the other guys,
the other enlistenment, I can see they're getting angry.
Speaker 3 (09:15):
Now, they're getting anger.
Speaker 2 (09:17):
The sergeant is trying to you know, even though he
didn't speak English, he understood what I was trying to say.
Now he's getting confrontational. So I told my crew members,
I said, put the weapons on him, put them on them.
And it was it was tense. It was very tense.
(09:40):
They they would determined they were going to have their way, and.
Speaker 3 (09:43):
I was determined they weren't.
Speaker 2 (09:44):
And we made it to Hawaiian as soon and I
told the sergeant, I said, you know you touch women.
I said, you're captain. He cocked it out. You cock
it out, your captain, He cocked it. I kept saying that,
you know, kagod Eyeu and so anyway, we've got to
Hawaiian And as soon as we got there, I reported
(10:08):
these you know this, Sojeant and his troops to you know,
the our intelligence people, and they, you know, reported wherever when.
I have no idea what happened after that. But fortunately
these women, you know, we're not assaulted, and it would
have been impossible to let that have happened. It's just
some things you just can't do, you know. I mean,
that's not our American values, it really isn't. I mean,
(10:30):
even at that age, I understood that much. That's that's
not who we are as Americans.
Speaker 3 (10:34):
We don't do that.
Speaker 2 (10:35):
And now to segue into something a little bit amusing,
I'm back down again in Coastal Division eleven, you know,
down there in the Gulf of Thailand and the Pacific
Ocean area, and my commodore, Lieutenant Commander Bill Martin, he
(10:57):
called me in.
Speaker 3 (10:58):
I was hot wherever I was.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
He called me into the headquarters immediately, so I go back.
Speaker 3 (11:06):
I had no idea what was going on.
Speaker 2 (11:08):
And he says, he hands me a teletype, and I
read this teletype my heart's sake, and the best I recall,
I wish I had a copy of it. It said
something like this from Commander in Chief Pacific two, you know,
(11:28):
command a Coastal Squadron one, Coastal Division eleven. Boom boom,
subject of presidential interest. I remember those words of presidential interest.
And I'm paraphrasing here. And it goes on to say,
as follows, Ruth Hallie Gorman, the mother of Lieutenant jg.
Speaker 3 (11:51):
Olivi G.
Speaker 2 (11:52):
Halle Staten Allen, New York, has written to the President
of the United States, Richard M. Nixon, that her son
is not getting his mail, and the President has ordered
an immediate inquiry to determine why he isn't getting his mail.
(12:12):
And I was flawed because I had never complained to
my mother I wasn't getting my mail. That didn't happen.
I never said a word that I wasn't getting my mail.
Speaker 3 (12:22):
Nothing.
Speaker 2 (12:22):
I was getting my mail. It wasn't a problem. So
I'm speechless and embarrassed. I mean, this thing went out
to the entire seventh Fleet, this communication of presidential interest.
Speaker 3 (12:35):
So the commodore was.
Speaker 2 (12:38):
Very sympathetic, and he said, well, we have to respond
to this immediately. When he suggests, I said, well, Commodode,
I'm getting my mail. I mean, I don't know where
my mother's coming from. I can't pick up a phone
to call her and ask her what's going on. So
I remember, we responded that I had been in transit
and had been moving around, and apparently the mail hadn't
(13:00):
kept up, but there was no problem. Be assured that
there is no problem. Everything's fine and.
Speaker 3 (13:08):
It's okay.
Speaker 2 (13:09):
So when I got home, I have a copy somewhere
in a box. I know that of a letter from
a general in the Pentagon. How that works, you know,
since I'm in the Navy. But who knows, But anyway,
I remember it was a general in the Pentagon who
had written my mother that on behalf.
Speaker 3 (13:29):
Of the president or something like that.
Speaker 2 (13:31):
They were looking into why I wasn't getting my mail.
Like I say, it was a very embarrassing thing to me.
But when I asked my mother when I got home
almost a year later, I said.
Speaker 4 (13:41):
Why did you do that?
Speaker 3 (13:43):
I said, I was getting my mail? Why did you
do that? Oh? I remember her saying, is you weren't
getting your mail?
Speaker 2 (13:48):
Okay, So I do have you know something that is
very critical to who I am. And back in the
nineteen thirties, my maternal grandparents had a correspondence with a
(14:11):
woman in Australia named Estherbuck. Estherbuck was a teacher in
Australia and she communicated or wrote letters. I should say,
they correspondent only by mail. And we're all of the same,
roughly the same age. You remember back then in the seventies,
I'm talking about sixties and seventies, you had that paper.
(14:35):
You bought it at the post office. I think they
call it flypaper because it was so light, and you
would write a letter and then you would fold it.
Remember that you would fold it over and put a
stamp on it. But it was so light, and you'd
send it by airmail because it was cheap. But back then,
if you remember, they were air mail rates versus first class,
whereas today there's no distinction.
Speaker 3 (14:55):
Okay, So.
Speaker 2 (14:58):
This correspondence my grandfather, my mother's father and her mother.
They were both educators, as was my mother in New York,
and they had this correspondence. They got through the park
A Penn company. It was just one of those professional things.
And over the years I got to know each other
only by mail. I had never spoken. So when my
(15:20):
grandfather became too sick, my mother picked up the correspondents.
So we're talking probably about the late nineteen forties, early
nineteen fifties. So my mother wrote to Estherbuck and they correspondent,
you know, maybe once a month, once every couple months.
And I remember Miss Buck, that's what I called her.
She would send us little trinkets for Christmas, that kind
(15:42):
of thing. But again they never spoke. All of this
was by mail all these years. So now I'm in
Vietnam and it was arranged that I would meet Miss
Buck on R and R and I was lucky. I
got two RN R's FIRSTWIE was in of nineteen seventy.
I went to Hong Kong, and then the second one,
(16:03):
the commodod was really generous about that went to Sydney.
So my mother arranged by mail for me to meet her.
So I was pretty excited too. This is a big deal.
And the way it was going to work is I
was going to meet her at her home and then
my mother was going to call while I was there. Now,
(16:26):
again we're all at the same age. These young people
have no idea. But when you called internationally back then.
Speaker 3 (16:33):
You had to call the overseas operator.
Speaker 2 (16:35):
Remember that you called. Maybe you don't be cause if
you never made an international call. It wasn't very common.
It was expensive. But you call the international operator and
you'd say I'd like the places call the Sydney Australia
and the international operator would tell you that it might
be an hour, might be two, might be three, depending
on the traffic before they could get a line. So
(16:56):
the plan was hopefully it would all fall in the place.
While I was there, my mother would be calling in.
The date was September eighth, nineteen seventy and I've written
a book, but it pertains to This business I have
is speaking business, and I have a chapter in a
(17:17):
book called Life Changing versus Life Shaping Experiences. September eighth,
nineteen seventy changed my life forever.
Speaker 3 (17:30):
Forever.
Speaker 1 (17:32):
And you're listening to Oliver Halley, and again we want
to thank the Veterans History Project at the Atlanta History
Center for this story. And we're going to find out
what happened on that day when we come back more
of Oliver Halle's story here on our American Stories, and
(18:08):
we continue with our American stories in Oliver Halley's story.
Let's pick up where we last left off.
Speaker 2 (18:14):
September eighth, nineteen seventy changed my life forever forever. I
don't know why I'm getting emotional, but I think about it.
(18:36):
I told you earlier in this interview in the beginning
that my mother and father were only children. I had
no relatives, and on my father's side, in particularly a
lot of mysteries that I never knew the answers to.
Speaker 3 (18:51):
My father.
Speaker 2 (18:54):
Had committed suicide on May the ninth, nineteen sixty six,
in college.
Speaker 3 (19:00):
I was twenty years old. I was a junior in
college at the time.
Speaker 2 (19:06):
And in that book that I wrote, I put in
there that you know, he just could not outrun the
demons that had chased him from the Third Reich. And he,
as I said earlier, he had built up the sledgend.
He was in this German underground movement and they got
into street fights and all of that. Well, it turned
out that's all true, that part is all true. What
(19:28):
never made sense to me as I got older was
why with a wealthy family, Because my father came from
a wealthy family. He was an only child. His father
was a very prominent surgeon. And I didn't know until
I sent you the story of New York Times. I
didn't know until this year, until this year, February of
(19:50):
this year, that he had actually been a physician for
Kuys of Wilhelm and zah Nicholas of Russia. I didn't
know that until from the New York Sue has seen
the sorry to New York Times nineteen thirty nine when
he was killed in a car accident. So anyway, he
committed suicide four years earlier. And I'm sitting with miss
(20:15):
Buck and she had never married. She was a woman,
probably in the seventies at the time, and she was
so excited to see me I mean, oh, she was
just fluttering here and flarting them. I'm so excited to
finally meet somebody from Halle family after all these years.
This is oh so happy, finally, you know, this is wonderful.
(20:39):
And I can't wait for your mother to call, you know,
I'm just so looking forward to that.
Speaker 3 (20:46):
And then she said as follows.
Speaker 2 (20:51):
She said, and I don't remember her exact words. I
was too stunned, and so I'm close, but these are not.
Speaker 3 (21:00):
The exact words.
Speaker 2 (21:01):
I just don't remember what they were. I wish I did,
but I don't. She said something like this, did your
mother ever reconcile with her father from marrying outside the faith?
And I looked at miss Buck and I said, miss Buck,
I don't understand your question. My mother and father, you know,
(21:23):
were Protestants. I don't know what you mean by marrying
outside the faith. And she said no, no, no, no, no.
She said your mother was Jewish she married your father.
But I said, my mother's not Jewish. He said, of
course she is, and she's my head.
Speaker 3 (21:41):
At that moment exploded.
Speaker 2 (21:44):
You know how you get shocking news, whatever the really
shocking news.
Speaker 3 (21:48):
That's what happened to me.
Speaker 2 (21:49):
It was like that because I had experienced anti Semitism
growing up. I grew up a Methodist, but I experienced
a lot of anti Semitism. I don't care anybody you
know that I don't know I look Jewish, Okay, I
mean there is a stereotype, and I'm one of them.
My head explored. I couldn't believe what I was hearing.
(22:10):
So she saw the look on my face and.
Speaker 3 (22:14):
She stopped short.
Speaker 2 (22:15):
She says, oh my god, I hope I didn't say
anything I shouldn't have said. And I said no, I said,
I'm glad you did. But she didn't say another word. Well,
my mother called in and we all had a very
nice chat. Didn't bring Anitas up, and Miss Buck was
so excited to finally talk to my mother. And I
(22:39):
left Vietnam I think September twenty third, so it was
a couple of weeks or so later, and got to
San Francisco and I outprocessed from active duty to the reserves.
Speaker 3 (22:56):
It took I think five days. I was a treasure island, you.
Speaker 2 (23:00):
Know, about an hour a day, you know, did administrative
stuff and they cut you loose. So at the end
of the week I flew from San Francisco to New York.
A friend of mine picked me up and I went
to my mother's house till I could find a place
to live. A couple weeks later, and I'm unpacking my
(23:20):
sea bag and this has really been weighing on my mind.
And as I'm unpacking my sea bag, I said to
my mother, why didn't you tell us we were Jewish?
And she said, what where did you get that nonsense from?
Speaker 3 (23:36):
Those are her words?
Speaker 2 (23:39):
And I said, miss Buck told me and my mother
very uncharacteristically.
Speaker 3 (23:45):
She was very polished, very.
Speaker 2 (23:46):
Educated, very uncharacteristically.
Speaker 3 (23:50):
She said, as fuck as a liar. She didn't talk
that way.
Speaker 2 (23:55):
I said, no, I said, miss Buck told the truth,
and very uncharacteristically, my mother completely broke down, I mean
really broke down, crying, and she said, please don't tell
your brothers, and I said I have to. Well, as
(24:18):
the years went by, I would try and talk to
my mother about this, she shut it down. She'd act
like I wasn't even in a room. If I ch
wanna change the subject, she'd look up and talk about it.
She wouldn't talk about it, absolutely refused. So I never
learned anything from my mother, nothing, And she and my
(24:39):
father had destroyed a lot of documents, so over the years,
it would take me too long to tell, and it
doesn't fit in with the Vietnam part of the story,
so I'll just kind of synopsize it real quickly. I
learned a lot on my own through reading books, and
then when the Internet came in, being learned a little bit.
(25:02):
And so the bottom line is this. My grandfather on
my father's side was Jewish for sure, one hundred percent.
I have the records to support.
Speaker 3 (25:11):
That he was Jewish.
Speaker 2 (25:14):
And my maternal my paternal grandmother was a Lutheran.
Speaker 3 (25:22):
My father was raised a Lutheran. So in the Jewish faith.
Speaker 2 (25:24):
You know, the bloodline carries on the mother's side, not
the father's side. So even though my father was half Jewish,
he wouldn't be recognized.
Speaker 3 (25:33):
As Jewish by Jewish people.
Speaker 2 (25:37):
So that comment about did your mother have a reconcile
with her father, and in fact, my mother married outside the
faith even though my father was half Jewish.
Speaker 1 (25:46):
And you've been listening to Oliver Halley and what a
story he's telling, and this is just a side story.
With these side stories, well, they informed so much about
all of our lives. September eighth, the day that changed
his life forever. And my goodness, why didn't you tell
us we were Jewish? What an identity crisis for this
(26:07):
young man. Also, he was learning that everything he ever
thought was true because he always thought he was Jewish,
he looked Jewish. Where did you get that nonsense? The
mom said, And my goodness, she then said, miss Buck
is a liar. And he knew then, he knew for
sure that it was true. And then the reality said it,
(26:27):
and his mom, well, she just broke down and she
just started to cry, revealing her human side. But never
came clean, never told the real story. And by the way,
we learned that again and again here on our American stories,
particularly the World War two generation. So many of them
just wouldn't come clean about what happened. Maybe it was
so horrible they couldn't process it. Who knows what the
reasons are. When we come back more of Oliver Halley's story,
(26:52):
and it's a beauty here on our American stories. And
(27:37):
we continue here with our American stories, Let's continue with
Oliver Hally.
Speaker 2 (27:42):
So, my father and his mother were estranged. I don't
know why to this day. That's a secret that will
go to the grave. I will never know the answer
to that. It kills me not to know, but I'll
never know.
Speaker 3 (27:58):
I do not know.
Speaker 2 (28:01):
My father would write her letters. She lived in Queens
when we lived on Sutton Island. My father would write
her letters. And I still see this in my mind's eye.
They would come back unopened and they would be a stamp,
you know, this kind of stamp on the envelope, and
it would be of a hand pointing this like this
(28:22):
and it would say return to Senda refused with check
mark refused. And she died in uh February nineteen fifty nine.
But I never met her and don't to this day.
I don't know why they were strange.
Speaker 3 (28:36):
I have no idea. So that day changed my life forever.
Speaker 2 (28:41):
When you find out you, uh, there's more to your
past and it's very different than you were brought up
to believe it it that has a profound effect. So
that's the life changing experience. Life shaping, without question, was
my time in the Navy, and certainly in Vietnam.
Speaker 3 (29:02):
I went over to Vietnam I.
Speaker 2 (29:03):
Was twenty three years old as an officer in charge
of a swift boat. I came home I was twenty four,
and to have that kind of responsibility at that young age.
If that won't shape you, nothing will. After Vietnam, I
spent a year trying to get into law school, but
(29:26):
working this odd job I had had when I was
in high school just to mark time I got into
law school. I began in August of nineteen seventy one
at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill and
went through law school knowing that my career plan was
(29:46):
to become an FBI agent. There was never any doubt
that's what I wanted to do. I had formed that
plan years earlier when I knew I wasn't going to
be Chief Naval Operations, and I figured that out in
high school. By the way, in high school, so my
career in the FBI, you have two tracks, you know,
the investigative side, and then you can choose to go
(30:09):
into management.
Speaker 3 (30:09):
It's not like the military.
Speaker 2 (30:11):
You know, it's mandatory promotions here eye you know, people
choose in the FBI if they want to go into management.
Speaker 3 (30:16):
And I had no interest in it.
Speaker 2 (30:17):
After having the experience that I had a Navy, particularly
in Vietnam, I figured nothing could rival that. Nothing, nothing,
not even close. And then, and I love the FBI.
In my career, I had twenty eight years. It was
a free ticket to a show. I loved it. But
to be kind, the best leadership I saw was in
(30:40):
the Navy. I started late in life with children. I'm
married to Mollie Johnson Halle. She's from Charleston, South Carolina.
She I met her in New York. She was an
FBI agent as well, and she was chief Division Council
for the FBI office in Atlanta for most of her career.
But we met New York. And I was just short
(31:02):
of forty one when my oldest daughter, Caitlin was born,
just short of forty two when my second daughter, Victoria
was born.
Speaker 3 (31:10):
They're Irish twins. The twelve days short of a year apart.
Speaker 2 (31:14):
And then my son is in his fourth year of
medical school at Emory. And this is only a coincidence.
It was not planned this way. But my son, Tyler,
is following in the footsteps of his grandfather, who was
an ear nosed throat surgeon. And that's coincidence. He didn't
do it for that reason. He didn't even really know
(31:35):
about it until recently.
Speaker 3 (31:36):
So I'd like to close with this.
Speaker 2 (31:45):
One of the things that my father did when we
lived in Brooklyn and I was a young boy, and
I remember so vividly on a lot of weekends he
would go into Manhattan and he was volunteer for Church
World In Church World Service, even to this day, I
think sponsors immigrants. And my father went down there, and
(32:14):
you can picture this, these ships coming in from Europe,
with thousands refugees coming to New York. You had organizations
(32:39):
like Church World Service sponsored these people, people who had
nowhere to go, no homes, lost families.
Speaker 3 (32:57):
They are a very profound effect on me.
Speaker 4 (33:01):
If you read the words, and I know you have
of Emma Lazarus on the Statue of Liberty, give me
a poor You're wretched, Get timming masses. However, and my
father and his family before I was born, obviously coming
(33:23):
to New York. Can don't imagine what they thought when
they saw the Statue of Liberty. So he volunteered his
time to help refugees, and one of 'em came to
live with us for several years. Sergei Scholhakov. He was
a Russian.
Speaker 2 (33:42):
He had been a veterinarian and in a Russian army,
in a Russian cavalry. I I don't remember whether he
was captured or what happened, but either way, he ended
up in a refugee camp in Europe after the war.
He was on one of these ships, and what I
remember is this, he was coming off the ship and
(34:05):
people being processed.
Speaker 3 (34:07):
My father.
Speaker 2 (34:07):
I remember the story saying, you know, he's one of mine.
He came with him and he lived with us for
several years, and then for health reasons, he moved to Miami,
but we stayed in touch, and I last saw him
when I was in the navy. A ship was in
Fort Lauderdale and I called him and I spent the
night with him. A wonderful man, wonderful man. He loved
(34:29):
this country, what he gave him. He lost everything in
the war, He lost his family everything.
Speaker 3 (34:36):
I think of my.
Speaker 2 (34:36):
Father and all of that, and you say, how can
you not give back? You know, how can you not
do that? This country gave my father and his family
a home when they were evicted from This was the
Vietnam War, one of those wars like World War Two,
(35:00):
that you know you're fighting to defend your country. I
can't say that it was, and I won't, but that's
not the point. The point was that military service was
something that came to be expected, and people in my generation,
not everybody. Obviously, we had a lot of people who
(35:20):
didn't share my view, but a lot did you know,
we did our time we came back from Vietnam, people say, well,
you know, the people spit on you or anything.
Speaker 3 (35:34):
No, No, I never had that.
Speaker 2 (35:36):
Nobody cared when I got back. Nobody cared. You were
a Vietnam veteran. So what In law school, in my class,
we probably had ten or fifteen Vietnam veterans.
Speaker 3 (35:48):
You know, we would talk casu.
Speaker 2 (35:50):
We were probably you know, we weren't all close friends,
but we got along very well. We could at least
if there's anything about the war it was still going on, we.
Speaker 3 (35:57):
Could talk about it. You didn't talk about it with
other people. They didn't care. It was irrelevant.
Speaker 2 (36:01):
It meant it was just they couldn't relate to it.
It was only when Ronald Reagan dedicated the tomb of
the Unknown Soldier to the Vietnam miss him and I
watched it on TV live, Oh my god, that was powerful.
And Ronald Reagan made it okay to be Vietnam better,
(36:23):
and he was.
Speaker 3 (36:23):
That was the first.
Speaker 2 (36:25):
It was okay, then I could wear a T shirt
you know, Vietnam better.
Speaker 3 (36:28):
I never did before that. Never.
Speaker 2 (36:30):
I didn't talk about it. I didn't talk about it
because you know, oh, I can't talk about it. I
have bad memories of I have pts and no.
Speaker 3 (36:37):
Nothing to do with that.
Speaker 2 (36:39):
Nobody cared. Nobody cared. But yeah, that was it. So
I went on with my life and life was good.
My FBI career was fantastic. It was a free ticket
to a show. I traveled all over the world toward
the end of you know, with the FBI. And I
(37:01):
was very lucky in my life.
Speaker 3 (37:03):
I really was lucky.
Speaker 2 (37:05):
Probably I got a few lucky breaks along the way.
Didn't have to, but I did, and I'm grateful for them.
And I've got some plans in my head for what
I'm going to do about paying it forward.
Speaker 1 (37:15):
And we're looking forward to hearing more from Oliver. What
a storyteller, What a life lived? And again a special
thanks to the folks at the Veteran's History Project at
the Atlanta History Center. And again we're always looking for
stories like this from you are our listeners, and my goodness,
what a life well lived after serving in Vietnam, serving
(37:35):
in the FBI for twenty eight years. A free ticket
to the show, he said, late in life to children
like me forty one when he had his daughter Caitlin
forty two Victoria Tyler, who is in medical school, carrying
on a family tradition. But that story of him greeting refugees,
I know that one because my immigrant grandparents made me
do the same thing. I love what he said about Sergei.
(37:58):
He was a wonderful man. He loved his country. He
had lost everything in the war. Everything. He also said, Oliver,
the country gave my father and his father a home.
So true Oliver Halley's story here on our American Stories
Host
Lee Habeeb
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