August 28, 2024 • 10 mins
On this episode of Our American Stories, a ministry of presence is what police chaplain service means to Greg Giltner. His response to the terrorist attack on the Murrah Federal Building was characteristic of his service—and that of his comrades and mentors.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
And we return to our American stories. Up next, a
story from a police chaplain in Oklahoma City on the
events and the mentor that changed his life. Let's get
into the story.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Very seldom do we get called to retirement parties, to
birthday parties, to anniversary parties unless alcohol is involved in
there's a fight. We don't get involved in good stuff,
is what I'm saying. We're always on a call that's
the worst day for that person or that family. Same
thing happens in our police family. As a chaplain, we
respond to those incidents that are the worst day. Police
(00:50):
officer's son killed in a car wreck, police officer and
his wife given birth to a stillborn I've had to
be at the hospital and that's happened twice, and we're
there when it's the worst time. I didn't take this
job to proslyt I did not take the job to
add numbers to the church. I took the job to
give the presence of God at a time of difficulty.
(01:12):
Whatever their faith is or if they're not a believer,
as long as they wear a badge and a gun,
I'm there to try to give peace and comfort.
Speaker 3 (01:25):
My name is Greg Giltner.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
I'm currently the chief at Oklahoma Christian University in Oklahoma City,
but prior to that, I was an officer at the
Oklahoma City Police Department.
Speaker 3 (01:35):
I started with Oklahoma.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
City in nineteen eighty eight and I retired in twenty fifteen.
My first experience with the chaplaincy, I was appointed as
the FOP or Fraternal Order police chaplain in two thousand
and four, and that's a position that.
Speaker 3 (01:49):
I still hold.
Speaker 2 (01:50):
The chaplains that I worked with, the chaplains that mentored
me were very kind, caring Christian examples. I mean, if
you look at Jesus into twelve apostles, I can name
twelve chaplains that I would look at and say they've
helped me through my most difficult times. But I was
(02:12):
very fortunate when I hired on at Oklahoma City in
nineteen eighty eight, we had a chaplain that was a
father figure to meet.
Speaker 3 (02:24):
Chaplain Poe became a father figure to meet.
Speaker 2 (02:27):
In nineteen ninety I lost my dad at age fifty three.
He had a heart attack deer hunting. He comforted me
through that. I was working patrol in nineteen ninety one,
I was involved in a fatality wreck on duty with
a drunk pedestrian. Two o'clock in the morning, a zero
point twenty six drunk ran out in front of my
patrol unit. Chaplain Poe came to my house brought food
(02:50):
to my house to minister to me and my wife.
Nineteen ninety two, I was an FTO, a field training officer,
and I was involved in a shooting December the twelfth
and ninety to suspect was distraught with his family and
had a fourteen inch butcher knife and tried to stab
me and my rookie partner. We ended up getting involved
(03:11):
in a deadly force situation. I was sued for two
point seven million for the shooting by the family. They
ended up getting no money out of it. But once
again Chaplain Poe was there. Then the bombing happened in
ninety five. That day, I was on the street working
Borking day shift, South Division. Chaplain Poe was the full
(03:33):
time chaplain. I was actually running paperwork downtown.
Speaker 3 (03:37):
When the bomb went off. Didn't know what it was.
I had never been in the Federal building. I actually
thought it.
Speaker 2 (03:46):
Was a courthouse and it was just just large mushroom
come up. I thought it was some type of a
gas explosion. I never entered my mind. It was a
terrorist deal. There's a lot of damage. Had to park
the car about four blocks away and then I just
ran to the scene. So I got there about about
nine fifteen. I was there till seven thirty that night.
(04:18):
When something like that happens, we go on twelve hour shifts,
twelve hours on, twelve hours off, your day's off, your
vacation days. All that stuff goes by the wayside. So
we strictly went on twelve hour shifts. But I remember
Lieutenant John Clark tapping me on his shoulder at seven
thirty and saying guilt or you need to go home.
And I ignored him at first because I was in
(04:39):
operation mode.
Speaker 3 (04:40):
We were still finding people.
Speaker 2 (04:42):
So when he tapped me on his shoulder, he goes,
you've been here all day, you need to go home.
That was a Wednesday, because it was at church night,
and I realized at seven thirty churches at seven thirty,
and I've got a twenty five minute drive to church.
Speaker 3 (04:58):
My uniform was a wreck. I was wreck once again.
Speaker 2 (05:01):
I hadn't been to the had never been to the
building before, and when I got there, I ended up
on the south side of the building, which is where
the daycare was.
Speaker 3 (05:10):
So most of the.
Speaker 2 (05:12):
Injuries and fatalities that I saw and dealt with were
the kids. So I got in the car, and soon
as I sat down in the car and headed home,
I started thinking about my own three kids. They would
have been two, five, and eight, and I'd just been
(05:32):
dealing with kids.
Speaker 3 (05:34):
So obviously I get to church late. I go in.
Speaker 2 (05:38):
I knew where their Bible classes was, so I interrupted
three Bible class teachers and I'm a wreck. The preacher
and a couple of deacons had seen me come in
and they kind of got me to calm down, but
I needed to see my own kids.
Speaker 3 (05:52):
Once I did that, I was okay.
Speaker 2 (05:54):
But Chaplin Poe and I worked a scene together for
a couple of days. I will say this about Chaplain
Poe chaplaincy in general, but particularly Chaplain Poe as an
officer involved in a shooting, as an officer involved in
a fatality, wreck, as an officer that had a significant
loss with my dad, being at homicide scenes, being at
(06:16):
significant crime scenes. When Chaplain Poe showed up, there was
just a sense that everything's going to be okay. He
drove a little green Mazda Miata, and when we saw
that car pull up, we'd all look at each other
and go, it's going to be okay. The chaplain's here.
He had that aura about him. He didn't even have
(06:37):
to say anything. Just his presence had a calming effect
on us. And so I had learned from him. It
wasn't so much what you said, it was just being
there at a time, given somebody a hug, giving him
a smile. I want a lot of friends over a
cold bottle of water. So I learned from the best.
(07:00):
I was asked to be the chaplain. He fully supported
that the nineteen ninety five deal the bombing. I didn't
know any of the kids that I had dealt with,
(07:20):
and I was okay with that because if I have
a name, it makes it personal, and I didn't know names.
Sometime after the bombing, one of the grandmas of two
of the little boys that were killed reached out to
me and she said, I understand you may have been
with my grandsons when they died. I met her for
(07:41):
coffee reluctantly, and what I had to do was suck
it up because she found comfort knowing that somebody was
with her grandkids. I had bad, bad memories of what
I saw if those were her grandkids. She'd asked me
to describe the kids that I had dealt with, and
(08:03):
the kids I dealt with were dismembered. You couldn't recognize
if they were male or female, just terrible. But I
remembered clothing, and I described a couple of the kids
that had clothing items. She identified both of those as
her grandsons. Now that puts a name to it, that
makes it personal. Those are names that stuck with me.
(08:25):
Every Christmas, she would send me Christmas ornaments with the boys'
names on it. Therapeutic for her, but a reminder to
me of something tragic. And I'm okay with that. I've
dealt with that through counseling, but it's not something I'll
ever forget.
Speaker 3 (08:44):
But as a patrol officer, I would go to work everyday.
Every day was a new day.
Speaker 2 (08:50):
Whatever Oklahoma City threw at us, we handled, and then
I could go home and be done with it. There
was no follow up. That was for the detectives. I
could start every day a new day. The chaplain, I
was doing weddings for people, I was doing funerals for families,
and even though I'm retired from Oklahoma City Chaplaincy, did
(09:10):
a funeral yesterday for a retired officer that i'd worked with.
The thing in the chaplaincy that I've learned over the
years is the chaplain CEE is a ministry of presence.
You have to be where they are at the time
that they're hurting, and sometimes that's an ugly place to be.
Chaplain Poe and I still stay in contact. He does
some volunteer work, but like myself, I'll still take those
(09:33):
phone calls because of those relationships. So if you're a
person that doesn't know much about police chaplaincy and the
next time you watch a TV program where there's an
officer involved shooting, the next time you will see a
TV show where there was horrific fire, where there was
loss of life, know that there's a chaplain that's going
(09:55):
to be waiting back at a briefing station to give
those families comfort.
Speaker 3 (10:00):
Won't see them on TV.
Speaker 2 (10:01):
They're not going to be vocal, but they're that silent
angel that's in the back that tries to minister to
people at their worst.
Speaker 1 (10:12):
And a terrific job on the production, editing and storytelling
by our own Monty Montgomery and a special thanks to
Greg Guildner, who is a police officer at Oklahoma City
from nineteen eighty eight to twenty fifteen, also a police chaplain.
He's the silent angel in the back, trying to minister.
Speaker 3 (10:29):
To people at their worst.
Speaker 1 (10:31):
The story of Greg Guiltner, the story of so many
officers and so many people who serve our officers.
Speaker 3 (10:38):
And that's police chaplains.
Speaker 1 (10:39):
Here on our American Stories.
And we return to our American stories. Up next, a
story from a police chaplain in Oklahoma City on the
events and the mentor that changed his life. Let's get
into the story.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Very seldom do we get called to retirement parties, to
birthday parties, to anniversary parties unless alcohol is involved in
there's a fight. We don't get involved in good stuff,
is what I'm saying. We're always on a call that's
the worst day for that person or that family. Same
thing happens in our police family. As a chaplain, we
respond to those incidents that are the worst day. Police
(00:50):
officer's son killed in a car wreck, police officer and
his wife given birth to a stillborn I've had to
be at the hospital and that's happened twice, and we're
there when it's the worst time. I didn't take this
job to proslyt I did not take the job to
add numbers to the church. I took the job to
give the presence of God at a time of difficulty.
(01:12):
Whatever their faith is or if they're not a believer,
as long as they wear a badge and a gun,
I'm there to try to give peace and comfort.
Speaker 3 (01:25):
My name is Greg Giltner.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
I'm currently the chief at Oklahoma Christian University in Oklahoma City,
but prior to that, I was an officer at the
Oklahoma City Police Department.
Speaker 3 (01:35):
I started with Oklahoma.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
City in nineteen eighty eight and I retired in twenty fifteen.
My first experience with the chaplaincy, I was appointed as
the FOP or Fraternal Order police chaplain in two thousand
and four, and that's a position that.
Speaker 3 (01:49):
I still hold.
Speaker 2 (01:50):
The chaplains that I worked with, the chaplains that mentored
me were very kind, caring Christian examples. I mean, if
you look at Jesus into twelve apostles, I can name
twelve chaplains that I would look at and say they've
helped me through my most difficult times. But I was
(02:12):
very fortunate when I hired on at Oklahoma City in
nineteen eighty eight, we had a chaplain that was a
father figure to meet.
Speaker 3 (02:24):
Chaplain Poe became a father figure to meet.
Speaker 2 (02:27):
In nineteen ninety I lost my dad at age fifty three.
He had a heart attack deer hunting. He comforted me
through that. I was working patrol in nineteen ninety one,
I was involved in a fatality wreck on duty with
a drunk pedestrian. Two o'clock in the morning, a zero
point twenty six drunk ran out in front of my
patrol unit. Chaplain Poe came to my house brought food
(02:50):
to my house to minister to me and my wife.
Nineteen ninety two, I was an FTO, a field training officer,
and I was involved in a shooting December the twelfth
and ninety to suspect was distraught with his family and
had a fourteen inch butcher knife and tried to stab
me and my rookie partner. We ended up getting involved
(03:11):
in a deadly force situation. I was sued for two
point seven million for the shooting by the family. They
ended up getting no money out of it. But once
again Chaplain Poe was there. Then the bombing happened in
ninety five. That day, I was on the street working
Borking day shift, South Division. Chaplain Poe was the full
(03:33):
time chaplain. I was actually running paperwork downtown.
Speaker 3 (03:37):
When the bomb went off. Didn't know what it was.
I had never been in the Federal building. I actually
thought it.
Speaker 2 (03:46):
Was a courthouse and it was just just large mushroom
come up. I thought it was some type of a
gas explosion. I never entered my mind. It was a
terrorist deal. There's a lot of damage. Had to park
the car about four blocks away and then I just
ran to the scene. So I got there about about
nine fifteen. I was there till seven thirty that night.
(04:18):
When something like that happens, we go on twelve hour shifts,
twelve hours on, twelve hours off, your day's off, your
vacation days. All that stuff goes by the wayside. So
we strictly went on twelve hour shifts. But I remember
Lieutenant John Clark tapping me on his shoulder at seven
thirty and saying guilt or you need to go home.
And I ignored him at first because I was in
(04:39):
operation mode.
Speaker 3 (04:40):
We were still finding people.
Speaker 2 (04:42):
So when he tapped me on his shoulder, he goes,
you've been here all day, you need to go home.
That was a Wednesday, because it was at church night,
and I realized at seven thirty churches at seven thirty,
and I've got a twenty five minute drive to church.
Speaker 3 (04:58):
My uniform was a wreck. I was wreck once again.
Speaker 2 (05:01):
I hadn't been to the had never been to the
building before, and when I got there, I ended up
on the south side of the building, which is where
the daycare was.
Speaker 3 (05:10):
So most of the.
Speaker 2 (05:12):
Injuries and fatalities that I saw and dealt with were
the kids. So I got in the car, and soon
as I sat down in the car and headed home,
I started thinking about my own three kids. They would
have been two, five, and eight, and I'd just been
(05:32):
dealing with kids.
Speaker 3 (05:34):
So obviously I get to church late. I go in.
Speaker 2 (05:38):
I knew where their Bible classes was, so I interrupted
three Bible class teachers and I'm a wreck. The preacher
and a couple of deacons had seen me come in
and they kind of got me to calm down, but
I needed to see my own kids.
Speaker 3 (05:52):
Once I did that, I was okay.
Speaker 2 (05:54):
But Chaplin Poe and I worked a scene together for
a couple of days. I will say this about Chaplain
Poe chaplaincy in general, but particularly Chaplain Poe as an
officer involved in a shooting, as an officer involved in
a fatality, wreck, as an officer that had a significant
loss with my dad, being at homicide scenes, being at
(06:16):
significant crime scenes. When Chaplain Poe showed up, there was
just a sense that everything's going to be okay. He
drove a little green Mazda Miata, and when we saw
that car pull up, we'd all look at each other
and go, it's going to be okay. The chaplain's here.
He had that aura about him. He didn't even have
(06:37):
to say anything. Just his presence had a calming effect
on us. And so I had learned from him. It
wasn't so much what you said, it was just being
there at a time, given somebody a hug, giving him
a smile. I want a lot of friends over a
cold bottle of water. So I learned from the best.
(07:00):
I was asked to be the chaplain. He fully supported
that the nineteen ninety five deal the bombing. I didn't
know any of the kids that I had dealt with,
(07:20):
and I was okay with that because if I have
a name, it makes it personal, and I didn't know names.
Sometime after the bombing, one of the grandmas of two
of the little boys that were killed reached out to
me and she said, I understand you may have been
with my grandsons when they died. I met her for
(07:41):
coffee reluctantly, and what I had to do was suck
it up because she found comfort knowing that somebody was
with her grandkids. I had bad, bad memories of what
I saw if those were her grandkids. She'd asked me
to describe the kids that I had dealt with, and
(08:03):
the kids I dealt with were dismembered. You couldn't recognize
if they were male or female, just terrible. But I
remembered clothing, and I described a couple of the kids
that had clothing items. She identified both of those as
her grandsons. Now that puts a name to it, that
makes it personal. Those are names that stuck with me.
(08:25):
Every Christmas, she would send me Christmas ornaments with the boys'
names on it. Therapeutic for her, but a reminder to
me of something tragic. And I'm okay with that. I've
dealt with that through counseling, but it's not something I'll
ever forget.
Speaker 3 (08:44):
But as a patrol officer, I would go to work everyday.
Every day was a new day.
Speaker 2 (08:50):
Whatever Oklahoma City threw at us, we handled, and then
I could go home and be done with it. There
was no follow up. That was for the detectives. I
could start every day a new day. The chaplain, I
was doing weddings for people, I was doing funerals for families,
and even though I'm retired from Oklahoma City Chaplaincy, did
(09:10):
a funeral yesterday for a retired officer that i'd worked with.
The thing in the chaplaincy that I've learned over the
years is the chaplain CEE is a ministry of presence.
You have to be where they are at the time
that they're hurting, and sometimes that's an ugly place to be.
Chaplain Poe and I still stay in contact. He does
some volunteer work, but like myself, I'll still take those
(09:33):
phone calls because of those relationships. So if you're a
person that doesn't know much about police chaplaincy and the
next time you watch a TV program where there's an
officer involved shooting, the next time you will see a
TV show where there was horrific fire, where there was
loss of life, know that there's a chaplain that's going
(09:55):
to be waiting back at a briefing station to give
those families comfort.
Speaker 3 (10:00):
Won't see them on TV.
Speaker 2 (10:01):
They're not going to be vocal, but they're that silent
angel that's in the back that tries to minister to
people at their worst.
Speaker 1 (10:12):
And a terrific job on the production, editing and storytelling
by our own Monty Montgomery and a special thanks to
Greg Guildner, who is a police officer at Oklahoma City
from nineteen eighty eight to twenty fifteen, also a police chaplain.
He's the silent angel in the back, trying to minister.
Speaker 3 (10:29):
To people at their worst.
Speaker 1 (10:31):
The story of Greg Guiltner, the story of so many
officers and so many people who serve our officers.
Speaker 3 (10:38):
And that's police chaplains.
Speaker 1 (10:39):
Here on our American Stories.
Host
Lee Habeeb
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