November 5, 2024 • 7 mins
On this episode of Our American Stories, sometimes it's the principle of the thing. When you experience fraud, you can "wine" about it - or you can get the grapes of wrath involved.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
This is Lee Habib and this is our American stories.
This next story, well, it's our rule of Law series,
where we tell stories about what happens when the rule
of law is present or absent in our lives. And
Alex Today brings us an unusual story from a guy
named Bill Koch, an entrepreneur with thirteen hundred employees.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
Here's Bill. You know what I really like if you
look at a great painting, you.
Speaker 3 (00:37):
Could tell the love the artist in creating it, And
to me, that's precious and that's what creates, in my opinion,
great art, you know, is the love for what the
artist was doing. And then food too, you know, with
an outstanding chef, you could taste that, Oh my god,
this tastes differently because he put a lot of love
(00:59):
into it, which means he put a.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
Lot of energy, thought, and everything else into it. And
the same with a bricklayer.
Speaker 3 (01:06):
You know, if he really loves his work, he takes
a little extra care in doing it other than slapping
it together.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
And the same thing with wine, the great wine.
Speaker 3 (01:16):
She could really taste the love that the vintnor had
in making it. And so that to me is highly offensive.
When someone is faking it.
Speaker 4 (01:27):
Bill found out that four bottles that were sold to
him as Thomas Jefferson's were fake, and then he found
out that more were too.
Speaker 3 (01:37):
There's a huge coat of silence because the faker doesn't
want to know that he's faking. The mintleman who's selling
the wine doesn't really want to know if it's fake.
In fact, there was one big auction house that was
selling a lot of wine in New York and auctions
(01:57):
and they had to have this retailer with them to
get through the laws. And the guy who owns the
retail shop said, why are you selling a lot of
fake wine in this auction And the head in house
council versus the outhouse council said, authenticity is an opinion
(02:21):
and we're not in the opinion business. We're in the
business of making our margin, So just ignore it. And
then the guys who buy the fake wine that they
find out it's fake, they want to get rid of
it and get their money back, so primarily either dump
it into the auction market, or they give it to
a charity to auction off are they find some sucker
(02:43):
that will buy it. Some of the fake wines I
bought were from charity auctions because the guy gave it
to him and he got a tax deduction on it,
and some other schmuck got him, mainly me, I got him.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
And so I just said, I'm out of on a crusade.
Speaker 4 (03:06):
A legal crusade to.
Speaker 2 (03:09):
Shine a bright light on it.
Speaker 3 (03:11):
And I also, I guess because when I was younger,
I was taken advantage of by people when I was naive,
and so I said, I just hate being cheated, hated.
Speaker 4 (03:23):
One of the fakers actually offered to give Bill all
of his money back, and Bill said, no, We're going
to court.
Speaker 2 (03:31):
That's right.
Speaker 3 (03:33):
Well, I ended up in one real long lawsuit, which
we won hands down, and then after that everybody wanted
to settle with me. And there was one guy who said, well,
I sold you these fake bottles. Would you give him
back to me so I could give him back to
the guy that sold him to me. And so I said,
(03:54):
all right, I will. But then I engraved on the
bottles counterfeit and gave him back to it.
Speaker 2 (04:01):
I haven't heard from him since.
Speaker 3 (04:07):
One big faker sent me a fax saying, why are
you worried about fake wine? Even Jesus turned water into
wine and I'm hoping I could get him into a
court in the Bible Belt, but I couldn't.
Speaker 2 (04:23):
One guy had a huge collection of pre World War two.
Speaker 3 (04:28):
Bottles of Petrus, which is one of the best wines
in the world, and oversized bottles.
Speaker 2 (04:34):
And I bought a bottle.
Speaker 3 (04:36):
Of nineteen twenty one Petrus and a double magnum and
I opened it up. God, that tasted like the cheapest
wine I've ever had. And I looked at it and
there was an article about this wine, about how it
was found and who found it, et cetera. And it
was rated one hundred out of one hundred. That's why
(04:58):
I bought this bottle.
Speaker 2 (05:00):
And what the guy did, the.
Speaker 3 (05:02):
Faker, I mean they have a hardy runstock, poured in
nineteen fifty seven wind into the bottle and he made
a fake label. We even found the place where he
bought the bottle, and we found where he had the
labels printed. And he poured in fifty seven wine, put
in some juice that made it taste old and smell.
Speaker 2 (05:25):
I said, what he did was put moose pists in
it for me.
Speaker 3 (05:31):
And we took this bottle to the Petres and they
said they never made big bottles.
Speaker 2 (05:37):
Pre nineteen forty five. And this one guy who had this.
Speaker 3 (05:41):
Huge collection of huge bottles called me up and said,
are all our bottles fake?
Speaker 2 (05:45):
And we said yeah, how do you know?
Speaker 3 (05:47):
Well we went to Petres and they said they never
made them, and they said, oh my god. And then
a month later he called up and said, why don't
you buy these bottles for me?
Speaker 2 (05:57):
And I said why He said, well, it's good evidence.
I said, well, I don't need to pay you. I'll
just subpoena you.
Speaker 3 (06:06):
Unfortunately, crusades turn out to be long and very expensive.
Speaker 4 (06:11):
Bill has spent thirty five million dollars going after the
fakers over what was originally a four hundred thousand dollars
wine fraud. And some might say that's a crusade, not
worth it, spending eighty seven and a half times the cost,
But for Bill Coke it is. The crusade isn't about
(06:32):
the wines. I mean, it's a little bit about the wines,
but Bill could have bought new wines for far less.
What it's really about to him is the rule of law.
And Bill's pursuit of the rule of law ended up
exposing an industry of tens of millions of fake wine.
Speaker 3 (06:49):
I try to say, well, it's bad business to cheat
when you get.
Speaker 1 (06:53):
Caught and great job is always by Alex and thanks
to Bill Coke, a rule of law, because let's face it,
sometimes the cops can't get these people, and sometimes, let's
face it, no one else can. Sometimes we the citizens,
have to go out and find these fakers. But if
we can't bring them to a court of law, if
we can't have the rule of law, then we have
(07:14):
nothing at all. Bill Koch's story, his crusade against fake
wine and again and against fake everything. Here on our
American Stories, Folks, if you love the great American stories
we tell and love America like we do, we're asking
(07:36):
you to become a part of the Our American Stories family.
If you agree that America is a good and great country,
please make a donation. A monthly gift of seventeen dollars
and seventy six cents is fast becoming a favorite option
for supporters. Go to Our Americanstories dot com now and
go to the donate button and help us keep the
great American stories coming. That's our American Stories dot Com.
This is Lee Habib and this is our American stories.
This next story, well, it's our rule of Law series,
where we tell stories about what happens when the rule
of law is present or absent in our lives. And
Alex Today brings us an unusual story from a guy
named Bill Koch, an entrepreneur with thirteen hundred employees.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
Here's Bill. You know what I really like if you
look at a great painting, you.
Speaker 3 (00:37):
Could tell the love the artist in creating it, And
to me, that's precious and that's what creates, in my opinion,
great art, you know, is the love for what the
artist was doing. And then food too, you know, with
an outstanding chef, you could taste that, Oh my god,
this tastes differently because he put a lot of love
(00:59):
into it, which means he put a.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
Lot of energy, thought, and everything else into it. And
the same with a bricklayer.
Speaker 3 (01:06):
You know, if he really loves his work, he takes
a little extra care in doing it other than slapping
it together.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
And the same thing with wine, the great wine.
Speaker 3 (01:16):
She could really taste the love that the vintnor had
in making it. And so that to me is highly offensive.
When someone is faking it.
Speaker 4 (01:27):
Bill found out that four bottles that were sold to
him as Thomas Jefferson's were fake, and then he found
out that more were too.
Speaker 3 (01:37):
There's a huge coat of silence because the faker doesn't
want to know that he's faking. The mintleman who's selling
the wine doesn't really want to know if it's fake.
In fact, there was one big auction house that was
selling a lot of wine in New York and auctions
(01:57):
and they had to have this retailer with them to
get through the laws. And the guy who owns the
retail shop said, why are you selling a lot of
fake wine in this auction And the head in house
council versus the outhouse council said, authenticity is an opinion
(02:21):
and we're not in the opinion business. We're in the
business of making our margin, So just ignore it. And
then the guys who buy the fake wine that they
find out it's fake, they want to get rid of
it and get their money back, so primarily either dump
it into the auction market, or they give it to
a charity to auction off are they find some sucker
(02:43):
that will buy it. Some of the fake wines I
bought were from charity auctions because the guy gave it
to him and he got a tax deduction on it,
and some other schmuck got him, mainly me, I got him.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
And so I just said, I'm out of on a crusade.
Speaker 4 (03:06):
A legal crusade to.
Speaker 2 (03:09):
Shine a bright light on it.
Speaker 3 (03:11):
And I also, I guess because when I was younger,
I was taken advantage of by people when I was naive,
and so I said, I just hate being cheated, hated.
Speaker 4 (03:23):
One of the fakers actually offered to give Bill all
of his money back, and Bill said, no, We're going
to court.
Speaker 2 (03:31):
That's right.
Speaker 3 (03:33):
Well, I ended up in one real long lawsuit, which
we won hands down, and then after that everybody wanted
to settle with me. And there was one guy who said, well,
I sold you these fake bottles. Would you give him
back to me so I could give him back to
the guy that sold him to me. And so I said,
(03:54):
all right, I will. But then I engraved on the
bottles counterfeit and gave him back to it.
Speaker 2 (04:01):
I haven't heard from him since.
Speaker 3 (04:07):
One big faker sent me a fax saying, why are
you worried about fake wine? Even Jesus turned water into
wine and I'm hoping I could get him into a
court in the Bible Belt, but I couldn't.
Speaker 2 (04:23):
One guy had a huge collection of pre World War two.
Speaker 3 (04:28):
Bottles of Petrus, which is one of the best wines
in the world, and oversized bottles.
Speaker 2 (04:34):
And I bought a bottle.
Speaker 3 (04:36):
Of nineteen twenty one Petrus and a double magnum and
I opened it up. God, that tasted like the cheapest
wine I've ever had. And I looked at it and
there was an article about this wine, about how it
was found and who found it, et cetera. And it
was rated one hundred out of one hundred. That's why
(04:58):
I bought this bottle.
Speaker 2 (05:00):
And what the guy did, the.
Speaker 3 (05:02):
Faker, I mean they have a hardy runstock, poured in
nineteen fifty seven wind into the bottle and he made
a fake label. We even found the place where he
bought the bottle, and we found where he had the
labels printed. And he poured in fifty seven wine, put
in some juice that made it taste old and smell.
Speaker 2 (05:25):
I said, what he did was put moose pists in
it for me.
Speaker 3 (05:31):
And we took this bottle to the Petres and they
said they never made big bottles.
Speaker 2 (05:37):
Pre nineteen forty five. And this one guy who had this.
Speaker 3 (05:41):
Huge collection of huge bottles called me up and said,
are all our bottles fake?
Speaker 2 (05:45):
And we said yeah, how do you know?
Speaker 3 (05:47):
Well we went to Petres and they said they never
made them, and they said, oh my god. And then
a month later he called up and said, why don't
you buy these bottles for me?
Speaker 2 (05:57):
And I said why He said, well, it's good evidence.
I said, well, I don't need to pay you. I'll
just subpoena you.
Speaker 3 (06:06):
Unfortunately, crusades turn out to be long and very expensive.
Speaker 4 (06:11):
Bill has spent thirty five million dollars going after the
fakers over what was originally a four hundred thousand dollars
wine fraud. And some might say that's a crusade, not
worth it, spending eighty seven and a half times the cost,
But for Bill Coke it is. The crusade isn't about
(06:32):
the wines. I mean, it's a little bit about the wines,
but Bill could have bought new wines for far less.
What it's really about to him is the rule of law.
And Bill's pursuit of the rule of law ended up
exposing an industry of tens of millions of fake wine.
Speaker 3 (06:49):
I try to say, well, it's bad business to cheat
when you get.
Speaker 1 (06:53):
Caught and great job is always by Alex and thanks
to Bill Coke, a rule of law, because let's face it,
sometimes the cops can't get these people, and sometimes, let's
face it, no one else can. Sometimes we the citizens,
have to go out and find these fakers. But if
we can't bring them to a court of law, if
we can't have the rule of law, then we have
(07:14):
nothing at all. Bill Koch's story, his crusade against fake
wine and again and against fake everything. Here on our
American Stories, Folks, if you love the great American stories
we tell and love America like we do, we're asking
(07:36):
you to become a part of the Our American Stories family.
If you agree that America is a good and great country,
please make a donation. A monthly gift of seventeen dollars
and seventy six cents is fast becoming a favorite option
for supporters. Go to Our Americanstories dot com now and
go to the donate button and help us keep the
great American stories coming. That's our American Stories dot Com.
Host
Lee Habeeb
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