June 9, 2025 • 29 mins
“Pennsylvania is in the top ten in the nation with collisions, fatalities and injuries on or near railroad tracks. Find out why and how you can make things safer for everyone.” www.oliofpa.org
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hi, I'm Sylvia mausin This is Insight, a presentation of iHeartMedia,
where we really do care about our local communities and
all our listeners who live here. Well, you know what,
We've all had them, the dreams where you're being chased
by a monster or wild animal, or how.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
About the one where all your teeth fall out.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
Well, and then there's the one where you're naked in public,
or the one you're in a car on a railroad
track and you can hear the train company can't get
off the track fast up.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Yep, they're all pretty scary.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
Thing is, there's not much of a chance that a
monster's going to be chasing you any time soon. And
you might not lose a tooth, or you might lose
a tooth, but not all of them are gonna fall
out at once. And come on, I'm sure you're not
gonna see me naked in public, and I'm pretty sure.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
It's the same story with you.
Speaker 1 (00:43):
However, that dream about being stuck on the railroad tracks
and your car's not moving the train's coming, well, you
know what, in reality, that does happen, and much more
often then you think. In fact, according to the nationally
recognized leader of rail Safety Education no as Operation Lifesaver.
In the United States, a person or vehicle to tip
(01:04):
by a train every three hours. That's the national trend.
But here in Pennsylvania we're typically in the top ten
worst as far as states within the United States, with
about eighty five injuries or deaths happening every year right
here in PA. For fifty years, Operational Life Saver has
been committed to preventing collisions, injuries, and fatalities on and
(01:24):
around railroad tracks and highway raid rail crossings. But we're real,
real lucky here in the Commonwealth because a greatly admired
and community focused member of our Heart family is also
the state coordinator. Your coordinating boy, I'm having a hard
time with this today for Operation Life Saver of Pennsylvania.
Speaker 2 (01:45):
Brock Kersher, come on down.
Speaker 3 (01:48):
Thank you so much for having me. It's nice to
be in the studio again. Usually on the other side
of the table here at iHeart, but it's always great
to get in front of the marks.
Speaker 1 (01:59):
Oh yeah, well, you know what I'm so happy to
get you agree to commanding to talk about Operational Lifesaver.
And there's a couple of things that I do know.
I know everybody thinks you're just it around here.
Speaker 3 (02:11):
We all love you, oh, thank you.
Speaker 1 (02:12):
And I do know you're out in the community all
time promoting our nonprofits and other things.
Speaker 2 (02:19):
That are going on in the community.
Speaker 1 (02:20):
But I didn't know until a year or so ago
that you were the state coordinator for this organization.
Speaker 2 (02:27):
Tell us about it.
Speaker 3 (02:28):
Yeah, So, Operation Lifesaver is a national nonprofit started in
nineteen seventy two to teach people about rail safety. So
there's kind of an overarking umbrella, and then each state
also has their own organization that we work within the
national organization. So I am the state coordinator for Operation
(02:50):
Lifesaver of Pennsylvania. So what that really means is I'm
in charge of the rail safety education for the public.
And that also means we get into a lot of
specialized training as well. I train firefighters, EMS, police officers,
school bus drivers, professional drivers, and then general public. And
(03:12):
then we also do presentations for kids from preschool all
the way through to graduating high school. So you can
go to OLI dot org if you'd like to ask
for a presentation for your organization or school or whatever
that is, and that information will come to us. But
(03:32):
like you said, Unfortunately, every three hours, which is a
crazy number in the United States, a train hits a
person or a vehicle. And for us right now, the
big thing that's coming up is for the first time
ever and this is something that I have really preached
and preached and preached for years since I became the
(03:54):
state coordinator, the EENS sign. So if your vehicle is
stuck on the tracks, you get out of the vehicle,
everyone safely out. Who do you call? I bet you people, yeah,
I would say easily, say like ninety five percent of
the people that say nine to one one. That's a great,
(04:17):
great start. But there's one better. At the crossing itself.
There is a blue and white sign that is called
an e n S sign Emergency Notification System sign. On
that sign are two major things, a phone number and
an ID number. So that phone number is the number
(04:38):
that you want to call that will get you directly
in touch with a railroad. And then you're going to
give them that ID number that is on that sign.
Speaker 2 (04:48):
That's a location.
Speaker 3 (04:49):
Yeah, so that that lets them know exactly what crossing
you are at. So don't take a picture of one
of the signs and think you can, you know, just
use that or the phone number and put it into
your phone. Every single one is different because they're different railroads.
In fact, Pennsylvania has the most railroads of any state
in the United States, over sixty four But you.
Speaker 2 (05:10):
Know what, I'll tell you this.
Speaker 1 (05:11):
I don't know if you know this or not, but
during the Civil War, it's good we did have those
railroads because we played a major part in when the
Civil War, because you probably.
Speaker 3 (05:20):
Need the Cumberland Valley Railroad between Harrisburg and Winchester, Virginia
helped us win the war, there is no doubt, and
especially when when they raided up through Shippensburg Chambersburg, that
they could move things away from the Confederates very quickly
because of the railroad. So yeah, it's a very big
heritage state for railroads. For sure. We have over fifty
(05:43):
six hundred miles of trackage still used within the state.
But there was, you know, there was so much more.
Speaker 2 (05:49):
Can I ask you that?
Speaker 1 (05:50):
Can I interrupt this? I didn't realize you knew this much?
Did you always have an interest?
Speaker 2 (05:54):
And why this?
Speaker 1 (05:55):
I mean, you kick, we're around here, You're always promoting
wonderful organization in the community.
Speaker 2 (06:01):
But is this something you loved since you were a
little kids.
Speaker 3 (06:04):
So yeah, when my parents took me to Strasburg Road
when I was about two and I woke up, they say,
I woke up in my crib making drains sounds the
next day, so I explained it as it's in my blood.
I'm just super passionate about it. In a safety way,
in a preservation way. I'm a historian, have written a book,
(06:24):
all sorts of things. Yeah, you know all so yeah,
I just raroads are very much part of everything I
like to do, and the safety is a big part
of that, and promoting the n S sign is very
very big for me. So for the first time ever,
on June twenty fourth, Tuesday, we're having n S Sign
(06:45):
Awareness Day because we just want to make sure that
everyone knows that these signs are at every single crossing
across the country. They're there to keep you safe, you know.
So the big thing is is nine to one one
is a good number to call, but the better one
is calling the number on that n S sign because
the first thing we have to do is we have
(07:05):
to get the train stopped, that's right, and then whoever
you know, whoever it is that answers that NS number,
they will be able to help you if you need
let's say, the car catches on fire, you need the
fire department, or there's a medical emergency you need an
ambulance or so forth. The person answering that phone will
be able to help you get whatever medical service you
(07:25):
need directly to the exact spot you are because of
the ID number. Because you could be in a town
where hey, I'm at the main street crossing. Well there
could be five or six main street crossings and they
don't know where to send help.
Speaker 2 (07:37):
Well, let me ask you this has this always been
in existence, So.
Speaker 3 (07:41):
They started putting them up about twelve years ago.
Speaker 1 (07:44):
Okay, okay, but it's now time for people to realize.
Speaker 2 (07:47):
What they are.
Speaker 3 (07:48):
Yeah, and it's been time. Unfortunately, it's the message just
hasn't gotten out. When I joined the organization a number
of years ago, this kind of became the soapbox that
I standing on, and I really kept trying to push
people that we need to get the public awareness out
for this. They're out there, they at every crossing. Now
(08:09):
we need to be telling people about it. So I
actually recorded here in the studio a national PSA that
is still used today for the NS sign and I'm
sure that it will be all over with public on
the twenty fourth of June coming up. But so that's
what we're really promoting in a big way on that day.
(08:31):
There's lots of other you know, safety messages that we have,
but for right now, that is our main focus. It's
also this time of year people are getting kids are
getting out of school. Yep, you know that there's a
lot of time on their hands that they're trespassing on
the tracks.
Speaker 1 (08:45):
Talk about that because people think they can come and
go and say please own Yeah.
Speaker 3 (08:50):
So number one, it is private property. So if you
are anywhere within fifteen feet of the tracks, you are
on raread property, private property. You are trash passing. So
it is number one illegal but also extremely dangerous. A
lot of people think that I'll be able to hear
a train if you know, if it's coming when you're
in front of the train. This may sound crazy. I
(09:12):
know all of you are right now going, yeah, this
this is crazy, but it's really hard to hear a
train when you're directly in front of it.
Speaker 2 (09:20):
I didn't know that.
Speaker 3 (09:21):
Yeah, you have you have mere seconds to be able
to hear the train coming. If you hear it at all.
And now they're they're operating there, and they're working on
creating battery operated locomotives so you won't have a diesel sound.
It's just there's so many things that it's hard to
(09:42):
hear a train coming from behind, you know, if you're
in front of it, so you stay off the track.
Speaker 1 (09:47):
You're talking about it's hard to hear and everything, But
it's it kind of when you think about that is
powerful that they are, you would think that of course
you'd hear it.
Speaker 2 (09:57):
Yeah, you talk about how powerful these are, how how
big they are.
Speaker 3 (10:00):
I mean, it's thousands and thousands of time. I mean,
let's talk about a one hundred car freight train that's
going fifty five miles an hour. How long do you
think it takes to.
Speaker 2 (10:10):
Sup Oh my god, can you imagine.
Speaker 3 (10:12):
It's over a mile eighteen football fields. That's a one
hundred car freight train. And today they're running trains in
excess of two hundred cars, so you know, just the
extreme power is amazing. Let's think about the weight ratio
(10:33):
for your car to an empty soda can. Imagine how
easily your car crushes an empty soda can It's the
same weight ratio for a train to your vehicle four
thousand to one. The train wins every single time.
Speaker 1 (10:49):
And who's like, Okay, so you're stuck on the track
and train hits you, you can't go through the train company.
Speaker 3 (10:56):
Well, I can't comment on those things, but but yeah,
it's your You're in the way, and so we're just
trying to keep people out of the way. You know
which way the train's going to go. It's gonna follow
the tracks. It doesn't have a steering wheel, So we're
asking people to just be safe, think about your decisions.
(11:16):
They're people that take pictures on the tracks, ride ATVs
this time of year, go hunting or fishing in a
bridge or something. It just these are places you don't
want to be. Like I said, it's not easy to
hear the train when you're in front of it and
trying to look down the tracks at the train and
and kind of judge how much time you have. There's
(11:38):
an optical illusion that happens, so it's very hard for
you to make that judgment.
Speaker 1 (11:44):
Tell me how trains and bridges figure into all this, Well.
Speaker 3 (11:49):
It just when you're looking at tunnels and bridges, there's
enough room for the train. That's about it. There's there's
nowhere for you to go. So I mean, if you're
on a bridge, you have to make the decision are
you going to jump off it? Are you? You know,
it's just it's not a place for you to be.
So stay out of the tunnels, stay out of stay
(12:10):
off of bridges, stay off of trestles, those sorts of
things that there's just there's no room for you.
Speaker 1 (12:16):
Do you think people I think it's important enough for
them to know about this.
Speaker 3 (12:21):
It's incredibly important, and I think it's ridiculous, of course
it is. Well, see, the biggest issue is it's the education.
You know. I believe it's just an ignorance to the
true amount of danger that that people can be in.
And it's it's not that they're most of the time
(12:41):
trying to be negligent or put themselves in a dangerous situation.
It's just they're ignorant to the fact of how dangerous
the situation truly is, you know. Even you know, I
see people a lot of people go like to take
pictures of trains and watch trains and that sort of thing,
and it's great, but I often see people very close
to the tracks number one, the train over hangs you know,
(13:06):
the sides by a decent amount, and people realize they
think that, well, if I'm standing on the ties, I'm
gonna be far enough away. Now the train overhangs to
either side a good bit. There's also like chains or
things that are used to hold down the freight. They
could come loose. They could be, you know, being dragged along.
(13:27):
You could get hit by it. I've seen trains go
by that have like tree branches stuck on the side
of them, you know, that extend out and if you're
within fifteen feet you get hurt, seriously injured. You know.
Anything that gets put on the rail can come flying
out in some sort of fashion and hurt somebody, even
(13:48):
down to the size of coins. They can come flying
out at excessive speed. So we just tell people please
don't trespass on the tracks. I mean, it's not a
good place to walk, run bike. I can't imagine somebody
wanting to do that, but people do, uh, and then
they put earbuds in and then it makes it even harder.
(14:10):
So we just stay at least fifteen feet back from
the tracks, stay off the tracks, and everything should be
a fine, okay.
Speaker 1 (14:18):
You're going across the track to you look both the
there's no train, easily go yep, okay, and then you see,
I know, burns me up a lot of times when
I'm in a hurry and i think I'm going someplace
and all of a sudden, boom boom boom and the
gates come down. You have to sit there for fifteen
or twenty min It's okay, but you know, I'd rather
be that than be dead, right exactly.
Speaker 3 (14:39):
It's just you know, I understand as a society, we
keep getting faster and faster and faster, and you know,
take that time to you know, just you know that
at that point you can honestly look at your phone
you're sitting there waiting and whatever and so forth. But
just take the time. Be safe, you know, you want
(14:59):
to make that you get home safely and don't try
and run the gates. Ninety five percent of all deaths
include somebody who was trespassing or they were trying to
go around the gates and getting back to the NS
sign too. It's a great correlation back to that. If
you come to a crossing and the gates are down, yeah,
(15:20):
and there's no train coming, you know, you'd see call that.
Speaker 2 (15:23):
Number because they're supposed to be a train.
Speaker 3 (15:26):
So well that it doesn't necessarily know that they're supposed
to be a train, but you can get somebody out
there to fix the gates and so forth, so you know,
if there's a problem, maybe they're stuck down and so forth.
Sometimes we get people that try and go around the
gate because okay, they see the train go by, the
gates are still down, the lights are still flashing. It's like,
(15:48):
let's go right right, Well, there could be another track,
there could be another train coming. So that happens a
lot too. You know those lights they're red for a reason.
You are not supposed to move until they are out.
It's just like a traffic light. Yeah, so that's that's
why they're ready, you know.
Speaker 1 (16:05):
I know you're also concerned about grade crossing closure.
Speaker 2 (16:09):
What's a grade cross.
Speaker 3 (16:11):
That's where you cross the highway crosses the rails at grade,
so they call it a grade rail crossing.
Speaker 1 (16:17):
Okay, what's the difference between that and I regular on
the railroad tracks because you can't go over the railroad
tracks because you'll knock your and I've done this one time,
knock mine. What was it off the off the bottom
of your car.
Speaker 3 (16:29):
Maybe the muffler.
Speaker 2 (16:30):
Yeah, that's what I did.
Speaker 3 (16:31):
You go too fast over it?
Speaker 1 (16:32):
Then?
Speaker 3 (16:33):
Then? Yeah, long time ago clipped. Yeah, yeah, so that
that's what it is. It's it's a highway rail grade
crossing where the train crosses with a road.
Speaker 1 (16:44):
Okay, so use Okay, the word's going to get out
about this little blue sign with the location the phone
number on it.
Speaker 2 (16:52):
And I do you anticipate people jumping on that?
Speaker 1 (16:57):
I mean I would, because we're all all going to
go over the railroad tracks at some point or another.
Speaker 3 (17:03):
Yeah, I hope that people share it. You know, the
video PSA that we have, it's thirty seconds long. You know,
imagine watching a video that's thirty seconds that could save
your life or a friend's life, you know, or something.
So you know, we're really helping people share this. It's
a message. Like I said, I've been promoting for almost
a decade now, and just getting that word out. I
(17:26):
certainly know you know, my friends know about it. I
harp on it all the time. But just getting everyone
to really be educated on the NS sign, that's really
what Operation Lifesaver is all about. Just educating people to
the dangers of being around railroad tracks and what they
truly are and how to keep yourself safe.
Speaker 2 (17:48):
You know, Brock, I know that this is real, real
important to you. But was I gonna know? I forget
what I was gonna ask you. See what happened to me? What?
What about getting this in schools?
Speaker 1 (18:01):
I think that that's a pretty good I mean, you
have to wait for the schools to contact you.
Speaker 3 (18:07):
We are proactive, certainly, but there are a lot of
schools that you know, we continually go to year after year.
The school down in Mount Holly Springs that every year
I go towards the end of the school year, I
go and visit the new first graders and you know,
we have this safety discussion. But so yeah, and I
the kids love it because I always tell them, I'm like, Okay,
(18:30):
I want you to go home, and I want you
to teach your parents.
Speaker 2 (18:32):
Oh they do.
Speaker 3 (18:33):
I want you to show them that you learn something
and you're even smarter to them. So I tell them,
go home, go home and ask your parents or your
friends who they should call or what they should do.
If everybody gets out of the car after it's stuck
on the crossing, what do they do? And they just
get this big smile. They love it. So they get
to go home and they get to teach their parents
(18:54):
and so forth.
Speaker 1 (18:55):
That's right, that's smart because kids suck it up and
they don't let go.
Speaker 2 (18:59):
Yep.
Speaker 3 (18:59):
And honestly, when the parent is driving, going over the
tracks and so forth, there's a lot going on. They're
trying to be safe. They're trying to make sure there's
no train and the kid can look and say, hey,
there's the there's the NS sign, there's the blue and
white sign that you know. So I get a lot
of feedback from the kids every years about that. So
(19:20):
it's a lot of fun.
Speaker 1 (19:22):
Something else that I wanted to ask you you, I
know you're all out of state doing this. How can
anybody help you? Are there opportunities to volunteer?
Speaker 3 (19:32):
Yeah, we have a training to become an authorized volunteer
for Operation Life Saver. You can go on to OLI
dot org. Right at the top there's a volunteer button.
It is a about forty five minute training online and
then we have a face to face training as well,
(19:53):
and then that's that's really it.
Speaker 2 (19:55):
Then what will they be doing then as a volunteer, Well.
Speaker 3 (19:57):
A lot of different things. They can go out into
this and do presentations that have their clearances and that
sort of thing. They can do public events with us.
We go out to you know, fairs and exhibits, those
sorts of things to share the message. There's lots of
opportunities across the state for volunteering with us and doing
public events like that. Just giving them the education. We
(20:21):
always have some coloring books and great things for the
kids and so forth. But then we also have very
specialized training for like I said, professional drivers, school bus drivers,
and ems services. So there's a lot of other different
types of things that if you really want to get
deeply involved, you can do that as well.
Speaker 1 (20:42):
We had mentioned that Pennsylvania is like among the top
ten for accidents. Is it because we have more trains
than anybody else?
Speaker 3 (20:50):
So we do not I will tell you we do
not use the word accident because these are and it's
not a problem. It's just we don't use that word
because it is, yeah, typically an incident or collision, because
an accident, these are preventable things to us, you know
that by the education, we can prevent these things from
(21:12):
happen happening, so they're not really accidents to US, So
that's something that we take very seriously. But the number
of collisions happens in the United States, about two hundred
and sixty people get killed every year. Yeah, And for
(21:34):
Pennsylvania in twenty twenty four, we had fifty collisions at
grade crossings with four deaths and thirteen injuries. We had
forty one casualties due to trespassing, and twenty five of
those were deaths. So Pennsylvania has a lot of railroads, yes,
(21:59):
so it typically keeps us up in the numbers. But
at the same time, we also need to be very
cognizant of how we're using those those rare roads and
staying away from them because that does put us up
towards the top of United States.
Speaker 1 (22:17):
Unfortunately, has anything happened that were I don't know. The
word I can think about is newsworthy. Here in central Pennsylvania.
Speaker 3 (22:25):
There are always things happening. Unfortunately, it's it's sad and
certainly different circumstances. Sometimes it's it's cars being stuck on tracks.
Sometimes it's you know, people that are trespassing. Different areas
certainly have different types of situations more often than others.
You know, typically like up in the Pocono area. You
(22:47):
have people on ATVs, you know, just because it's a
more recreational type area the winter time, snowmobiles even issues.
So you know, the state is such a gorgeous state
and so many different types of things, hiking, you know,
(23:08):
just camping, all sorts of different things to do across
the state. So certainly different areas have different concerns when
it comes to the railroad.
Speaker 1 (23:17):
You know, you had mentioned earlier about not being able
to hear the trend, and you know why, I think
about older people, you know, because when you get older,
you lose some.
Speaker 2 (23:25):
Of your hearing.
Speaker 1 (23:26):
You see a lot of older people getting involved in
these incidents.
Speaker 3 (23:29):
Honestly, we don't because they're not as mobile as you know,
the younger, so typically they're staying away from from the railroads.
But even even young people, you know, whether you have
any hearing loss or not, it's still it's it's extremely hard.
I've seen demonstrations where they set up and in fact,
(23:55):
we promote it and share some of the videos on
our socials where we do very very protected situations with
media and kind of show them looking. We have microphones
set up and so forth, and we show them when
the sound actually picks up with the train going by,
(24:16):
and it's usually usually have somewhere between four and five
seconds of recognition if you're even listening for the you know,
something to happen, and somebody who isn't intently listening that
they really have no chance.
Speaker 1 (24:31):
And you know, I don't know if this still happens.
I mean, kids are kids, and when I think about
this stuff, the first thing that comes to my mind
actually is, oh my gosh, the car shuts off and
I can't move. The other thing is these darn kids
play chicken that really? Do they still do that?
Speaker 3 (24:47):
Not so much. It's more, you know, they try certain
social media challenges or something like that. In some areas
that have subways and so forth, like now, one of
the big things is they try and surf the trains,
so they literally they climb up on the roof. And
(25:11):
it's all for social media, and it's becoming a very
very big concern, and.
Speaker 2 (25:17):
It's why would come on.
Speaker 3 (25:19):
It's it's social media and unfortunately a lot of a
lot of them are they're being killed because of that. So,
you know, a train can move really at any time,
So you don't want to crawl under a train. You
don't want to, you know, try and hop a train,
those sorts of things. It's just just stay fifteen feet
(25:39):
back and and things. Things should be good.
Speaker 2 (25:42):
You know.
Speaker 1 (25:42):
They used to glamorize it, like you'd see they used
to call them hobos, right, yeah, Oh, it's it's like
romantic and there, you know, guy jumps on a train
and stuff.
Speaker 2 (25:51):
They need to stop doing that kind of stuff.
Speaker 3 (25:53):
Yeah, I can tell you it's not from what I've
seen in my life, it is not romantic in any way.
That is not the word I would describe it. I
don't even want to get into what I would the
word I would use to describe these things. It is trespassing.
It's very dangerous and you easily can get yourself killed.
Speaker 1 (26:10):
Have you been at the scene of these incidents?
Speaker 3 (26:13):
There are sometimes where I'm involved in the scenes. Yeah,
and it's really hard. The thing where my heart really
goes out to where the train crews, because the train
crews can really do three different things while these situations happen.
When they see somebody on the tracks, they can ring
the bell, they can blow the horn, and they can
(26:36):
put the train brakes on. That's it. Otherwise they have
to watch whatever is going to unfold and fold, and
my heart really breaks for them because they're just an
innocent bystander to that and that will live with them.
You know, those moments will live with them and play
over and over in their mind for the rest of
their lives. So, you know, the victims' families just awful,
(27:01):
the first responders that have to deal with that, and
then the train crews. It's just don't please, please, please,
don't put yourself or them in the position to have
to deal with that. Just stay away, stay off, stay alive.
Speaker 1 (27:20):
You know, I do interviews every year with the US
Product Safety Commission. They have a website and they have
opportunities on there. I'm sure you do, if even for schools.
If that not only for you to come out and talk,
but materials.
Speaker 3 (27:33):
Right, Yeah, we have all sorts of safety materials. You
can go to OLI dot org you can order them.
I mean there's chotchkeys and kind of fun things, and
there's also pamphlets and informational things, all kinds of goodies
there to help educate you on rare road safety.
Speaker 1 (27:51):
And again, how do we reach out to you if
somebody listening out there wants some of this want you
to come out and address their school, their church, there,
any group out there.
Speaker 3 (27:59):
Yeah, you just go to dot org. You can request
a presentation. There's also a list of all the state
coordinators there as well and our contact information so oli
dot org. It's it's the place to be. You can
get materials even if you're a teacher. There's a ton
of materials there. You look, you can click on a
little drop down and you click on the audience that
(28:20):
you're going to present to, and you want information on
and all kinds of goodies there.
Speaker 1 (28:25):
And I think people we need to realize again Brock,
as you said over and over again, you don't belong there.
You're trespassing. It's against the law to be on a
railroad track. And listen to these spots that Brock has
produced on all of our stations certainly and across I
guess Pennsylvania, right, yeah, and even the nation.
Speaker 2 (28:44):
That's right.
Speaker 1 (28:45):
My guest again, State coordinator for Operation Lifesaver of Pennsylvania, Brockcurshoner,
Thanks buddy, thank you, and for my wonderful listeners. If
you're not able to catch inside one Barten my heart
stations every Sunday, you can always catch in on your
favorite podcast app.
Speaker 2 (28:58):
I'm Sylvia Moss.
Speaker 1 (28:59):
This is an insight. Thanks so much for listening. See
you next week.
Hi, I'm Sylvia mausin This is Insight, a presentation of iHeartMedia,
where we really do care about our local communities and
all our listeners who live here. Well, you know what,
We've all had them, the dreams where you're being chased
by a monster or wild animal, or how.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
About the one where all your teeth fall out.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
Well, and then there's the one where you're naked in public,
or the one you're in a car on a railroad
track and you can hear the train company can't get
off the track fast up.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Yep, they're all pretty scary.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
Thing is, there's not much of a chance that a
monster's going to be chasing you any time soon. And
you might not lose a tooth, or you might lose
a tooth, but not all of them are gonna fall
out at once. And come on, I'm sure you're not
gonna see me naked in public, and I'm pretty sure.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
It's the same story with you.
Speaker 1 (00:43):
However, that dream about being stuck on the railroad tracks
and your car's not moving the train's coming, well, you
know what, in reality, that does happen, and much more
often then you think. In fact, according to the nationally
recognized leader of rail Safety Education no as Operation Lifesaver.
In the United States, a person or vehicle to tip
(01:04):
by a train every three hours. That's the national trend.
But here in Pennsylvania we're typically in the top ten
worst as far as states within the United States, with
about eighty five injuries or deaths happening every year right
here in PA. For fifty years, Operational Life Saver has
been committed to preventing collisions, injuries, and fatalities on and
(01:24):
around railroad tracks and highway raid rail crossings. But we're real,
real lucky here in the Commonwealth because a greatly admired
and community focused member of our Heart family is also
the state coordinator. Your coordinating boy, I'm having a hard
time with this today for Operation Life Saver of Pennsylvania.
Speaker 2 (01:45):
Brock Kersher, come on down.
Speaker 3 (01:48):
Thank you so much for having me. It's nice to
be in the studio again. Usually on the other side
of the table here at iHeart, but it's always great
to get in front of the marks.
Speaker 1 (01:59):
Oh yeah, well, you know what I'm so happy to
get you agree to commanding to talk about Operational Lifesaver.
And there's a couple of things that I do know.
I know everybody thinks you're just it around here.
Speaker 3 (02:11):
We all love you, oh, thank you.
Speaker 1 (02:12):
And I do know you're out in the community all
time promoting our nonprofits and other things.
Speaker 2 (02:19):
That are going on in the community.
Speaker 1 (02:20):
But I didn't know until a year or so ago
that you were the state coordinator for this organization.
Speaker 2 (02:27):
Tell us about it.
Speaker 3 (02:28):
Yeah, So, Operation Lifesaver is a national nonprofit started in
nineteen seventy two to teach people about rail safety. So
there's kind of an overarking umbrella, and then each state
also has their own organization that we work within the
national organization. So I am the state coordinator for Operation
(02:50):
Lifesaver of Pennsylvania. So what that really means is I'm
in charge of the rail safety education for the public.
And that also means we get into a lot of
specialized training as well. I train firefighters, EMS, police officers,
school bus drivers, professional drivers, and then general public. And
(03:12):
then we also do presentations for kids from preschool all
the way through to graduating high school. So you can
go to OLI dot org if you'd like to ask
for a presentation for your organization or school or whatever
that is, and that information will come to us. But
(03:32):
like you said, Unfortunately, every three hours, which is a
crazy number in the United States, a train hits a
person or a vehicle. And for us right now, the
big thing that's coming up is for the first time
ever and this is something that I have really preached
and preached and preached for years since I became the
(03:54):
state coordinator, the EENS sign. So if your vehicle is
stuck on the tracks, you get out of the vehicle,
everyone safely out. Who do you call? I bet you people, yeah,
I would say easily, say like ninety five percent of
the people that say nine to one one. That's a great,
(04:17):
great start. But there's one better. At the crossing itself.
There is a blue and white sign that is called
an e n S sign Emergency Notification System sign. On
that sign are two major things, a phone number and
an ID number. So that phone number is the number
(04:38):
that you want to call that will get you directly
in touch with a railroad. And then you're going to
give them that ID number that is on that sign.
Speaker 2 (04:48):
That's a location.
Speaker 3 (04:49):
Yeah, so that that lets them know exactly what crossing
you are at. So don't take a picture of one
of the signs and think you can, you know, just
use that or the phone number and put it into
your phone. Every single one is different because they're different railroads.
In fact, Pennsylvania has the most railroads of any state
in the United States, over sixty four But you.
Speaker 2 (05:10):
Know what, I'll tell you this.
Speaker 1 (05:11):
I don't know if you know this or not, but
during the Civil War, it's good we did have those
railroads because we played a major part in when the
Civil War, because you probably.
Speaker 3 (05:20):
Need the Cumberland Valley Railroad between Harrisburg and Winchester, Virginia
helped us win the war, there is no doubt, and
especially when when they raided up through Shippensburg Chambersburg, that
they could move things away from the Confederates very quickly
because of the railroad. So yeah, it's a very big
heritage state for railroads. For sure. We have over fifty
(05:43):
six hundred miles of trackage still used within the state.
But there was, you know, there was so much more.
Speaker 2 (05:49):
Can I ask you that?
Speaker 1 (05:50):
Can I interrupt this? I didn't realize you knew this much?
Did you always have an interest?
Speaker 2 (05:54):
And why this?
Speaker 1 (05:55):
I mean, you kick, we're around here, You're always promoting
wonderful organization in the community.
Speaker 2 (06:01):
But is this something you loved since you were a
little kids.
Speaker 3 (06:04):
So yeah, when my parents took me to Strasburg Road
when I was about two and I woke up, they say,
I woke up in my crib making drains sounds the
next day, so I explained it as it's in my blood.
I'm just super passionate about it. In a safety way,
in a preservation way. I'm a historian, have written a book,
(06:24):
all sorts of things. Yeah, you know all so yeah,
I just raroads are very much part of everything I
like to do, and the safety is a big part
of that, and promoting the n S sign is very
very big for me. So for the first time ever,
on June twenty fourth, Tuesday, we're having n S Sign
(06:45):
Awareness Day because we just want to make sure that
everyone knows that these signs are at every single crossing
across the country. They're there to keep you safe, you know.
So the big thing is is nine to one one
is a good number to call, but the better one
is calling the number on that n S sign because
the first thing we have to do is we have
(07:05):
to get the train stopped, that's right, and then whoever
you know, whoever it is that answers that NS number,
they will be able to help you if you need
let's say, the car catches on fire, you need the
fire department, or there's a medical emergency you need an
ambulance or so forth. The person answering that phone will
be able to help you get whatever medical service you
(07:25):
need directly to the exact spot you are because of
the ID number. Because you could be in a town
where hey, I'm at the main street crossing. Well there
could be five or six main street crossings and they
don't know where to send help.
Speaker 2 (07:37):
Well, let me ask you this has this always been
in existence, So.
Speaker 3 (07:41):
They started putting them up about twelve years ago.
Speaker 1 (07:44):
Okay, okay, but it's now time for people to realize.
Speaker 2 (07:47):
What they are.
Speaker 3 (07:48):
Yeah, and it's been time. Unfortunately, it's the message just
hasn't gotten out. When I joined the organization a number
of years ago, this kind of became the soapbox that
I standing on, and I really kept trying to push
people that we need to get the public awareness out
for this. They're out there, they at every crossing. Now
(08:09):
we need to be telling people about it. So I
actually recorded here in the studio a national PSA that
is still used today for the NS sign and I'm
sure that it will be all over with public on
the twenty fourth of June coming up. But so that's
what we're really promoting in a big way on that day.
(08:31):
There's lots of other you know, safety messages that we have,
but for right now, that is our main focus. It's
also this time of year people are getting kids are
getting out of school. Yep, you know that there's a
lot of time on their hands that they're trespassing on
the tracks.
Speaker 1 (08:45):
Talk about that because people think they can come and
go and say please own Yeah.
Speaker 3 (08:50):
So number one, it is private property. So if you
are anywhere within fifteen feet of the tracks, you are
on raread property, private property. You are trash passing. So
it is number one illegal but also extremely dangerous. A
lot of people think that I'll be able to hear
a train if you know, if it's coming when you're
in front of the train. This may sound crazy. I
(09:12):
know all of you are right now going, yeah, this
this is crazy, but it's really hard to hear a
train when you're directly in front of it.
Speaker 2 (09:20):
I didn't know that.
Speaker 3 (09:21):
Yeah, you have you have mere seconds to be able
to hear the train coming. If you hear it at all.
And now they're they're operating there, and they're working on
creating battery operated locomotives so you won't have a diesel sound.
It's just there's so many things that it's hard to
(09:42):
hear a train coming from behind, you know, if you're
in front of it, so you stay off the track.
Speaker 1 (09:47):
You're talking about it's hard to hear and everything, But
it's it kind of when you think about that is
powerful that they are, you would think that of course
you'd hear it.
Speaker 2 (09:57):
Yeah, you talk about how powerful these are, how how
big they are.
Speaker 3 (10:00):
I mean, it's thousands and thousands of time. I mean,
let's talk about a one hundred car freight train that's
going fifty five miles an hour. How long do you
think it takes to.
Speaker 2 (10:10):
Sup Oh my god, can you imagine.
Speaker 3 (10:12):
It's over a mile eighteen football fields. That's a one
hundred car freight train. And today they're running trains in
excess of two hundred cars, so you know, just the
extreme power is amazing. Let's think about the weight ratio
(10:33):
for your car to an empty soda can. Imagine how
easily your car crushes an empty soda can It's the
same weight ratio for a train to your vehicle four
thousand to one. The train wins every single time.
Speaker 1 (10:49):
And who's like, Okay, so you're stuck on the track
and train hits you, you can't go through the train company.
Speaker 3 (10:56):
Well, I can't comment on those things, but but yeah,
it's your You're in the way, and so we're just
trying to keep people out of the way. You know
which way the train's going to go. It's gonna follow
the tracks. It doesn't have a steering wheel, So we're
asking people to just be safe, think about your decisions.
(11:16):
They're people that take pictures on the tracks, ride ATVs
this time of year, go hunting or fishing in a
bridge or something. It just these are places you don't
want to be. Like I said, it's not easy to
hear the train when you're in front of it and
trying to look down the tracks at the train and
and kind of judge how much time you have. There's
(11:38):
an optical illusion that happens, so it's very hard for
you to make that judgment.
Speaker 1 (11:44):
Tell me how trains and bridges figure into all this, Well.
Speaker 3 (11:49):
It just when you're looking at tunnels and bridges, there's
enough room for the train. That's about it. There's there's
nowhere for you to go. So I mean, if you're
on a bridge, you have to make the decision are
you going to jump off it? Are you? You know,
it's just it's not a place for you to be.
So stay out of the tunnels, stay out of stay
(12:10):
off of bridges, stay off of trestles, those sorts of
things that there's just there's no room for you.
Speaker 1 (12:16):
Do you think people I think it's important enough for
them to know about this.
Speaker 3 (12:21):
It's incredibly important, and I think it's ridiculous, of course
it is. Well, see, the biggest issue is it's the education.
You know. I believe it's just an ignorance to the
true amount of danger that that people can be in.
And it's it's not that they're most of the time
(12:41):
trying to be negligent or put themselves in a dangerous situation.
It's just they're ignorant to the fact of how dangerous
the situation truly is, you know. Even you know, I
see people a lot of people go like to take
pictures of trains and watch trains and that sort of thing,
and it's great, but I often see people very close
to the tracks number one, the train over hangs you know,
(13:06):
the sides by a decent amount, and people realize they
think that, well, if I'm standing on the ties, I'm
gonna be far enough away. Now the train overhangs to
either side a good bit. There's also like chains or
things that are used to hold down the freight. They
could come loose. They could be, you know, being dragged along.
(13:27):
You could get hit by it. I've seen trains go
by that have like tree branches stuck on the side
of them, you know, that extend out and if you're
within fifteen feet you get hurt, seriously injured. You know.
Anything that gets put on the rail can come flying
out in some sort of fashion and hurt somebody, even
(13:48):
down to the size of coins. They can come flying
out at excessive speed. So we just tell people please
don't trespass on the tracks. I mean, it's not a
good place to walk, run bike. I can't imagine somebody
wanting to do that, but people do, uh, and then
they put earbuds in and then it makes it even harder.
(14:10):
So we just stay at least fifteen feet back from
the tracks, stay off the tracks, and everything should be
a fine, okay.
Speaker 1 (14:18):
You're going across the track to you look both the
there's no train, easily go yep, okay, and then you see,
I know, burns me up a lot of times when
I'm in a hurry and i think I'm going someplace
and all of a sudden, boom boom boom and the
gates come down. You have to sit there for fifteen
or twenty min It's okay, but you know, I'd rather
be that than be dead, right exactly.
Speaker 3 (14:39):
It's just you know, I understand as a society, we
keep getting faster and faster and faster, and you know,
take that time to you know, just you know that
at that point you can honestly look at your phone
you're sitting there waiting and whatever and so forth. But
just take the time. Be safe, you know, you want
(14:59):
to make that you get home safely and don't try
and run the gates. Ninety five percent of all deaths
include somebody who was trespassing or they were trying to
go around the gates and getting back to the NS
sign too. It's a great correlation back to that. If
you come to a crossing and the gates are down, yeah,
(15:20):
and there's no train coming, you know, you'd see call that.
Speaker 2 (15:23):
Number because they're supposed to be a train.
Speaker 3 (15:26):
So well that it doesn't necessarily know that they're supposed
to be a train, but you can get somebody out
there to fix the gates and so forth, so you know,
if there's a problem, maybe they're stuck down and so forth.
Sometimes we get people that try and go around the
gate because okay, they see the train go by, the
gates are still down, the lights are still flashing. It's like,
(15:48):
let's go right right, Well, there could be another track,
there could be another train coming. So that happens a
lot too. You know those lights they're red for a reason.
You are not supposed to move until they are out.
It's just like a traffic light. Yeah, so that's that's
why they're ready, you know.
Speaker 1 (16:05):
I know you're also concerned about grade crossing closure.
Speaker 2 (16:09):
What's a grade cross.
Speaker 3 (16:11):
That's where you cross the highway crosses the rails at grade,
so they call it a grade rail crossing.
Speaker 1 (16:17):
Okay, what's the difference between that and I regular on
the railroad tracks because you can't go over the railroad
tracks because you'll knock your and I've done this one time,
knock mine. What was it off the off the bottom
of your car.
Speaker 3 (16:29):
Maybe the muffler.
Speaker 2 (16:30):
Yeah, that's what I did.
Speaker 3 (16:31):
You go too fast over it?
Speaker 1 (16:32):
Then?
Speaker 3 (16:33):
Then? Yeah, long time ago clipped. Yeah, yeah, so that
that's what it is. It's it's a highway rail grade
crossing where the train crosses with a road.
Speaker 1 (16:44):
Okay, so use Okay, the word's going to get out
about this little blue sign with the location the phone
number on it.
Speaker 2 (16:52):
And I do you anticipate people jumping on that?
Speaker 1 (16:57):
I mean I would, because we're all all going to
go over the railroad tracks at some point or another.
Speaker 3 (17:03):
Yeah, I hope that people share it. You know, the
video PSA that we have, it's thirty seconds long. You know,
imagine watching a video that's thirty seconds that could save
your life or a friend's life, you know, or something.
So you know, we're really helping people share this. It's
a message. Like I said, I've been promoting for almost
a decade now, and just getting that word out. I
(17:26):
certainly know you know, my friends know about it. I
harp on it all the time. But just getting everyone
to really be educated on the NS sign, that's really
what Operation Lifesaver is all about. Just educating people to
the dangers of being around railroad tracks and what they
truly are and how to keep yourself safe.
Speaker 2 (17:48):
You know, Brock, I know that this is real, real
important to you. But was I gonna know? I forget
what I was gonna ask you. See what happened to me? What?
What about getting this in schools?
Speaker 1 (18:01):
I think that that's a pretty good I mean, you
have to wait for the schools to contact you.
Speaker 3 (18:07):
We are proactive, certainly, but there are a lot of
schools that you know, we continually go to year after year.
The school down in Mount Holly Springs that every year
I go towards the end of the school year, I
go and visit the new first graders and you know,
we have this safety discussion. But so yeah, and I
the kids love it because I always tell them, I'm like, Okay,
(18:30):
I want you to go home, and I want you
to teach your parents.
Speaker 2 (18:32):
Oh they do.
Speaker 3 (18:33):
I want you to show them that you learn something
and you're even smarter to them. So I tell them,
go home, go home and ask your parents or your
friends who they should call or what they should do.
If everybody gets out of the car after it's stuck
on the crossing, what do they do? And they just
get this big smile. They love it. So they get
to go home and they get to teach their parents
(18:54):
and so forth.
Speaker 1 (18:55):
That's right, that's smart because kids suck it up and
they don't let go.
Speaker 2 (18:59):
Yep.
Speaker 3 (18:59):
And honestly, when the parent is driving, going over the
tracks and so forth, there's a lot going on. They're
trying to be safe. They're trying to make sure there's
no train and the kid can look and say, hey,
there's the there's the NS sign, there's the blue and
white sign that you know. So I get a lot
of feedback from the kids every years about that. So
(19:20):
it's a lot of fun.
Speaker 1 (19:22):
Something else that I wanted to ask you you, I
know you're all out of state doing this. How can
anybody help you? Are there opportunities to volunteer?
Speaker 3 (19:32):
Yeah, we have a training to become an authorized volunteer
for Operation Life Saver. You can go on to OLI
dot org. Right at the top there's a volunteer button.
It is a about forty five minute training online and
then we have a face to face training as well,
(19:53):
and then that's that's really it.
Speaker 2 (19:55):
Then what will they be doing then as a volunteer, Well.
Speaker 3 (19:57):
A lot of different things. They can go out into
this and do presentations that have their clearances and that
sort of thing. They can do public events with us.
We go out to you know, fairs and exhibits, those
sorts of things to share the message. There's lots of
opportunities across the state for volunteering with us and doing
public events like that. Just giving them the education. We
(20:21):
always have some coloring books and great things for the
kids and so forth. But then we also have very
specialized training for like I said, professional drivers, school bus drivers,
and ems services. So there's a lot of other different
types of things that if you really want to get
deeply involved, you can do that as well.
Speaker 1 (20:42):
We had mentioned that Pennsylvania is like among the top
ten for accidents. Is it because we have more trains
than anybody else?
Speaker 3 (20:50):
So we do not I will tell you we do
not use the word accident because these are and it's
not a problem. It's just we don't use that word
because it is, yeah, typically an incident or collision, because
an accident, these are preventable things to us, you know
that by the education, we can prevent these things from
(21:12):
happen happening, so they're not really accidents to US, So
that's something that we take very seriously. But the number
of collisions happens in the United States, about two hundred
and sixty people get killed every year. Yeah, And for
(21:34):
Pennsylvania in twenty twenty four, we had fifty collisions at
grade crossings with four deaths and thirteen injuries. We had
forty one casualties due to trespassing, and twenty five of
those were deaths. So Pennsylvania has a lot of railroads, yes,
(21:59):
so it typically keeps us up in the numbers. But
at the same time, we also need to be very
cognizant of how we're using those those rare roads and
staying away from them because that does put us up
towards the top of United States.
Speaker 1 (22:17):
Unfortunately, has anything happened that were I don't know. The
word I can think about is newsworthy. Here in central Pennsylvania.
Speaker 3 (22:25):
There are always things happening. Unfortunately, it's it's sad and
certainly different circumstances. Sometimes it's it's cars being stuck on tracks.
Sometimes it's you know, people that are trespassing. Different areas
certainly have different types of situations more often than others.
You know, typically like up in the Pocono area. You
(22:47):
have people on ATVs, you know, just because it's a
more recreational type area the winter time, snowmobiles even issues.
So you know, the state is such a gorgeous state
and so many different types of things, hiking, you know,
(23:08):
just camping, all sorts of different things to do across
the state. So certainly different areas have different concerns when
it comes to the railroad.
Speaker 1 (23:17):
You know, you had mentioned earlier about not being able
to hear the trend, and you know why, I think
about older people, you know, because when you get older,
you lose some.
Speaker 2 (23:25):
Of your hearing.
Speaker 1 (23:26):
You see a lot of older people getting involved in
these incidents.
Speaker 3 (23:29):
Honestly, we don't because they're not as mobile as you know,
the younger, so typically they're staying away from from the railroads.
But even even young people, you know, whether you have
any hearing loss or not, it's still it's it's extremely hard.
I've seen demonstrations where they set up and in fact,
(23:55):
we promote it and share some of the videos on
our socials where we do very very protected situations with
media and kind of show them looking. We have microphones
set up and so forth, and we show them when
the sound actually picks up with the train going by,
(24:16):
and it's usually usually have somewhere between four and five
seconds of recognition if you're even listening for the you know,
something to happen, and somebody who isn't intently listening that
they really have no chance.
Speaker 1 (24:31):
And you know, I don't know if this still happens.
I mean, kids are kids, and when I think about
this stuff, the first thing that comes to my mind
actually is, oh my gosh, the car shuts off and
I can't move. The other thing is these darn kids
play chicken that really? Do they still do that?
Speaker 3 (24:47):
Not so much. It's more, you know, they try certain
social media challenges or something like that. In some areas
that have subways and so forth, like now, one of
the big things is they try and surf the trains,
so they literally they climb up on the roof. And
(25:11):
it's all for social media, and it's becoming a very
very big concern, and.
Speaker 2 (25:17):
It's why would come on.
Speaker 3 (25:19):
It's it's social media and unfortunately a lot of a
lot of them are they're being killed because of that. So,
you know, a train can move really at any time,
So you don't want to crawl under a train. You
don't want to, you know, try and hop a train,
those sorts of things. It's just just stay fifteen feet
(25:39):
back and and things. Things should be good.
Speaker 2 (25:42):
You know.
Speaker 1 (25:42):
They used to glamorize it, like you'd see they used
to call them hobos, right, yeah, Oh, it's it's like
romantic and there, you know, guy jumps on a train
and stuff.
Speaker 2 (25:51):
They need to stop doing that kind of stuff.
Speaker 3 (25:53):
Yeah, I can tell you it's not from what I've
seen in my life, it is not romantic in any way.
That is not the word I would describe it. I
don't even want to get into what I would the
word I would use to describe these things. It is trespassing.
It's very dangerous and you easily can get yourself killed.
Speaker 1 (26:10):
Have you been at the scene of these incidents?
Speaker 3 (26:13):
There are sometimes where I'm involved in the scenes. Yeah,
and it's really hard. The thing where my heart really
goes out to where the train crews, because the train
crews can really do three different things while these situations happen.
When they see somebody on the tracks, they can ring
the bell, they can blow the horn, and they can
(26:36):
put the train brakes on. That's it. Otherwise they have
to watch whatever is going to unfold and fold, and
my heart really breaks for them because they're just an
innocent bystander to that and that will live with them.
You know, those moments will live with them and play
over and over in their mind for the rest of
their lives. So, you know, the victims' families just awful,
(27:01):
the first responders that have to deal with that, and
then the train crews. It's just don't please, please, please,
don't put yourself or them in the position to have
to deal with that. Just stay away, stay off, stay alive.
Speaker 1 (27:20):
You know, I do interviews every year with the US
Product Safety Commission. They have a website and they have
opportunities on there. I'm sure you do, if even for schools.
If that not only for you to come out and talk,
but materials.
Speaker 3 (27:33):
Right, Yeah, we have all sorts of safety materials. You
can go to OLI dot org you can order them.
I mean there's chotchkeys and kind of fun things, and
there's also pamphlets and informational things, all kinds of goodies
there to help educate you on rare road safety.
Speaker 1 (27:51):
And again, how do we reach out to you if
somebody listening out there wants some of this want you
to come out and address their school, their church, there,
any group out there.
Speaker 3 (27:59):
Yeah, you just go to dot org. You can request
a presentation. There's also a list of all the state
coordinators there as well and our contact information so oli
dot org. It's it's the place to be. You can
get materials even if you're a teacher. There's a ton
of materials there. You look, you can click on a
little drop down and you click on the audience that
(28:20):
you're going to present to, and you want information on
and all kinds of goodies there.
Speaker 1 (28:25):
And I think people we need to realize again Brock,
as you said over and over again, you don't belong there.
You're trespassing. It's against the law to be on a
railroad track. And listen to these spots that Brock has
produced on all of our stations certainly and across I
guess Pennsylvania, right, yeah, and even the nation.
Speaker 2 (28:44):
That's right.
Speaker 1 (28:45):
My guest again, State coordinator for Operation Lifesaver of Pennsylvania, Brockcurshoner,
Thanks buddy, thank you, and for my wonderful listeners. If
you're not able to catch inside one Barten my heart
stations every Sunday, you can always catch in on your
favorite podcast app.
Speaker 2 (28:58):
I'm Sylvia Moss.
Speaker 1 (28:59):
This is an insight. Thanks so much for listening. See
you next week.
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