September 25, 2024 • 30 mins
"As kids head back to school, it's important for parents to teach them why perfection and failure are both lies." https://www.michellewilliardhoffer.com/
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hi, I'm Sylvia Moss.
Speaker 2 (00:01):
This is Insight, a presentation of iHeartMedia where we really
do care about our local communities and all our listeners
who live here. You know, years ago they used to
say there aren't any books out there to teach you
how to raise a child to be happy and successful. Well, now,
although the markt has been flooded with them, these books
and parents seem to gobble them up, but many kids
(00:22):
still struggle. We all know that life these days is
a whole lot harder for kids than it used to
be in previous generation. In and out of school, parents
today are constantly looking for ways to support their children.
My guest today says, in most cases, it doesn't have
to be that way. Kids don't have to struggle to
find their place in the world, and parents well, according
(00:43):
to my guest, Michelle Willard Hawford, the solution to supporting
our kids in an effort for them to be happy
and successful is real simple. This simple answer has been
around for thousands of years and it's ingrained in all
of us. Got your attention, I hope so well, it's
your as mine because anything that I can possibly do
to provide some kind of insight, some direction some answers
(01:06):
to parents as they walk through the journey with the
most precious people in their lives. You bet that I'm
going to jump on it now. I'd like you to
meet former teacher, author and owner of Soaring Minds, Michelle
Willard hoff Or. She's a returning guest because she's so awesome.
I love what she does. I've been really looking forward
to this conversation. I want to ask you first of
(01:26):
all before we start. I know we said you're a teacher,
so you've had that experience with children. Tell us about
Soaring Minds.
Speaker 3 (01:32):
Soaring Minds means I help people figure out their life,
their life and then they can soar. I specifically help
a lot of people who are recovering from narcissistic abuse
or domestic violence, those type of situations. That's where I
(01:53):
am the narcissist layer because I say, I also help
people reach goals like weight loss or public speaking. And
I'm the scale slayer.
Speaker 1 (02:05):
Because and you're very successful at this too.
Speaker 3 (02:08):
I am. It's fun and I say I'm successful not narcissistically,
but because I stand in my power. I own it,
you know, And I want children to do that. I
want the parents to do that. I want people who
have recovered after abuse to stand in their power. It's
(02:29):
not about I'm a victim. I'm a victim. Now you're
a victor. You're a victor, and I'll show you how.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
That's awesome. I love it.
Speaker 2 (02:37):
Okay, let's talk about this simple way that we can
not only help our kids find happiness and success, we
can do it ourself. Just said, it's been around since
the Cayman pretty much, right, What is it?
Speaker 3 (02:49):
Yes, well, of course, it's our intuition. It's our ability
to communicate, it is our ability to love and connect,
to connect, connect. I love that you said it's been
around since the Caveman, because it has. We need to
(03:10):
nurture each other. And it's gonna sound silly like even
the bullies, Uh no, no, thank you. But we need
to nurture our thinking. We need to nurture our thoughts.
We need to nurture our children so that when someone
comes up who is not good for our children, not
(03:31):
good for them, they know instinctively, Like the Caveman, they
knew instinctively. So we're teaching intuition and to follow it
and to trust it. They know instinctively to not go
near those people and that there's a red flag for
(03:51):
a reason.
Speaker 2 (03:52):
Okay, let me ask you this, okay instinctively, let me
see if I'm getting this straight. We're all we're all
born with it into a shay, and in order to
nurture that, you have to feel that you can contribute
to something, right, Okay, So if you're that that brings
I would say a sense of self, like know who
(04:13):
you are, your personality traits, what makes you what you are. Though, Okay,
you had mentioned bullies. They are not born with that
or they didn't. They're born with it, but they didn't
have someone to nurture that, right.
Speaker 1 (04:27):
Is that right?
Speaker 3 (04:27):
Yes? I mean when I have parents and students around,
I have them talk about how they've been nurtured and
what they need to feel nurtured to contribute to the group.
And contribution is what makes a person feel validated. Contribution
(04:51):
is what keeps a group together. So you want everyone
contributing in some way, even the little toddlers.
Speaker 2 (04:59):
Yes, had you brought let's talk about that. I remember
when my son Josh was little, he was like three
or four years old, and what I did was I
put like a piece of whiteboard on the refrigerator and
it was like two three years old. They said, honey,
if you put put your clothes away, or if you
pick up your toys or something by the end of
the week, if he had five stars, I give him
a buck. Well that was years and years of my
(05:20):
husband had a fitty s ten bucks. Whoa, but it
made him feel it made him feel like a big boy,
like it contributed. That's why for so many years I've
been saying to people, get your kids involved in stuff
that they can give back to the community the best
of the most.
Speaker 1 (05:37):
Not only are they doing.
Speaker 2 (05:38):
Something, but boy, it is how wonderful that makes a
child feel. So what would you suggest to parents at
maybe four or five years old that they can do
to support their kids, Like, what activities can parents have
them do?
Speaker 3 (05:52):
Well? When I worked at Milton Hershey School as a
weekend relief house parent, we had at that time we
had the youngest student starting who's just turning four, just
turning forth babies, and I was talking with the house
person and we have at that time we had fifteen
students and they are like, oh no, they're making their
(06:15):
own bed. I'm like, do I make the bed for him?
Do I do this for him, and they're like no,
So they were rotated into the chort program just like
any of the others. And that's where my eyes started
to open up to you know, this being a family, contributing,
(06:36):
being in the in the tribe, so to speak, contributing.
And even the four year old, we had a little
stool and he'd pushed the little stool up to the
washing machine load fifteen students worth of clothing into you know,
but you make it into a game also. I mean
(06:56):
it's a chore, of course, but it's part of life. Yeah,
life is, yes, and life is a game, it really is.
You have to have fun.
Speaker 2 (07:05):
I remember we were chatting about this and you tell me,
if you can empower a five year old kid, they
feel more empowered than a world leader.
Speaker 3 (07:13):
Yes, yes, oftentimes world leaders. I mean they have power,
they make no mistake, and they know they have power.
They know it. People are doing things for them. It's
sort of like reversed. You know, everybody's doing and catering,
and but you have this five year old and you're
(07:34):
giving this five year old responsibility, safe responsibility, and they
feel powered and empowered. And I want to do some more.
I want to do some more.
Speaker 2 (07:46):
You teach exactly to exactly. They feed off of it.
It's wonderful. Okay, we mentioned some of those things what
I wanted to talk about as suggestions. How about things
like as like I said with my son, like put
your things away when you're or feeding the dog.
Speaker 1 (08:02):
What else can they do when they're that young?
Speaker 3 (08:05):
They can rake? I mean it's fall, it's winter, they
can shovel, it's summer. They can plant and malch and
put out the summer mauls, the fall mault. You know,
they can contribute. And you gave your son a dollar.
I mean, how powerful is that? And then they learn
(08:27):
the value of money. That's just by one thing.
Speaker 2 (08:30):
Oh he kept that wallet. Three he would not m
he would hold onto that money.
Speaker 1 (08:34):
That was a riot.
Speaker 2 (08:36):
Okay, let me ask about the flip side of this.
We hear about kids and most these kids that shoot
in schools like in Columbine, they all seem to be
there's mental health, of course issues there, but they're loners, right.
Speaker 3 (08:49):
They don't feel part of the tribe. They do not
feel like part or the tribe has push them out
for whatever reason. Teenagers do that. Preteens do that, you know,
push them out, oh you're weird 'or different. Well, we
need to teach our children that it is okay to
be different and unique and.
Speaker 2 (09:12):
Create.
Speaker 3 (09:13):
They're part of the world in a fun, safe manner,
not to go down that negative whole you know of
I'm so angry they didn't let me be part of
their groups, Like.
Speaker 2 (09:27):
That's what it's all about, right, I don't fit in?
Okay bullying, What do you say to a child, because
you know that stuff starts when they're real little. It
does when they're in that position somebody tries to bully them,
what should we tell them to do?
Speaker 3 (09:42):
So if they're really little, I would definitely tell the
teacher and the conversation with your child about trusting adults
and what type of adult to trust. Not every adult,
but the teacher. Their teacher is supposed to be step one,
(10:03):
you know, supposed to be Well.
Speaker 2 (10:05):
Do you think enough teachers take an interest to that
and they say, oh, go sit down.
Speaker 3 (10:10):
I It depends. It depends on where the school is,
how overworked the school is. That's why if a relative
can volunteer, and I'm not saying just the mom and
just the dad, but if a grandmother or an aunt
or a cousin who's older can volunteer in the classroom
(10:33):
and watch what's going on. That's always helpful. There's always
in the community also, community people want to volunteer in
the classroom and they go through their clearances and then
they can be part of it too. Teachers are overworked.
You and I both know that. We've talked about that,
(10:54):
but that is administration. They need to support their teachers
by allowing their teacher to talk to the students to
and this is across the grade levels, not just Okay,
we have thirty four minutes for math, we have twenty
(11:15):
two minutes for science, and you know, stick to that.
You have to allow the teacher to teach kindness, to
teach what it means to have civics, to to be
part of a society. They're they're they're taking that out
(11:36):
of the curriculum.
Speaker 1 (11:36):
Well, I know, and there's a whole lot of stuff
in schools.
Speaker 2 (11:39):
I mean, I I understand. Well, when I was in school,
it was memorization, and so what we were doing it
was out of my mind. You know, it's not how
George Washington, he was freezing his butt off. I mean,
kids relate to that kind of stuff, But we can
re memorized stuff. You're gonna have to, And I feel
bad for the teacher. So a lot of them feel
(12:00):
the same way. But what are you going to do.
One of the things I know you wanted to talk
about is those two lies that kids we tell kids.
The first lie and this happens a lot, and we'll
talk about helicopter parents. First lie is failure.
Speaker 3 (12:17):
It doesn't exist. It doesn't exist. I'm repeating it so
everyone hears it for their brain. Failure does not exist.
That does not exist. And I say that children might
come home with a little F on their paper, I failed. No, No,
that's feedback. Whatever grade they're receiving on that paper, that
(12:37):
just feedback. It means they didn't study enough, or maybe
they didn't get a good night's sleep, or they were
distracted by a boy or a girl, or someone bothering them,
or TV or their cell phone. It's feedback. Or maybe
the teacher didn't teach the content the way your child
studied it. You know, it's feedback.
Speaker 2 (12:58):
We kids learn different ways. That's another thing we have
to think about.
Speaker 1 (13:04):
Yeah, it's feedback. Okay, helicopter parents.
Speaker 3 (13:07):
Oh god, oh my gosh, let your children play. Let
them fall. We're all going to fall. That's just how
it is, and that's how we learn. And they're going
to do dumb things and that's how they learn. There's
going to be consequences. Let them have the consequence. It's
(13:31):
not going to you know, scar them. It's going to
empower them eventually. Of course they're not going to like
it right away, but eventually they'll learn from it. There's
positive consequence, there's negative consequence. Let them experience the consequence.
They had to. You had to, I had to. You
(13:55):
cannot helicopter over every little minutia that you're trying aile does.
Let them have fun, Let them have a journey of life.
Speaker 1 (14:03):
That's right. I agree.
Speaker 2 (14:04):
Okay, here's I'm a couple present a couple of situations
and see what you have to say about. Okay, you're
fourteen or fifteen years old, right, you're playing high school football.
Speaker 1 (14:15):
You're the one that always is, you're the superstar.
Speaker 2 (14:18):
You're in the championship game, and you've missed the winning
catch in the last couple seconds of the game.
Speaker 1 (14:25):
And first thing, your father says, I can't believe you
missed that catch. Should that father have said that.
Speaker 3 (14:32):
No, you, you don't relive the negative you He trust
and believe that football player has already learned the lesson
in their mind about what they should have done. And
any professional athlete will tell you that when the game
(14:52):
is over, the game is over, we're looking forward to
the next thing.
Speaker 2 (14:58):
Well, I would think it makes a f The father
says that in the kid feels like they're a screw up, right,
and that was a big time in their life. And right,
there's a lot of people that maybe you're fourteen or fifteen,
but they're sixty and they're still carrying.
Speaker 1 (15:11):
That feeling around their whole life.
Speaker 2 (15:14):
Yes, and it's impacting everything they do in their life, right, right, right,
So how we're messing up our children?
Speaker 1 (15:20):
Right?
Speaker 3 (15:21):
And if they really want this superstar superstar to be
a superstar superstar, they have to realize that there's a
whole read a book about sports psychology or you know,
this applies to anything, because once it's over, it's over.
We're looking forward to the next thing, the next game,
(15:41):
the next play, the next I'm going to reflect on
the Super Bowl champions, the Chiefs, they just keep going forward.
They are not looking in the past. Yes, they want Okay,
good for them. They also lost a couple of games. Okay,
well you know you take that, but you learn and
(16:04):
you move forward. You move forward. You coach, you are coached.
So as parents for education, for sports, for their hobbies,
you coach them. You don't degrade them, you don't over
praise them, you coach them into the next level.
Speaker 1 (16:25):
Wow, let's talk about that second. Why that you talk about.
Speaker 2 (16:30):
I know a lot of parents say I'm not going
to raise my kids the way my parents raised me.
Speaker 1 (16:34):
Perfection. We end up doing that anyway, don't we.
Speaker 3 (16:39):
True, But I have to tell you perfection is a lie.
It doesn't exist. These two words, failure and perfection should
be just blasted out of our minds, blasted out of
our vocabulary. People always say they want perfection, Well, it
doesn't exist. So you're going to chase after something that
(17:03):
you will never ever attain. And it's just you're gonna
chase your tail. So people tell me, oh, my baby,
my baby, they're perfect. Okay, right, okay, my child, my
child is perfect.
Speaker 4 (17:21):
Let me tell you where their finger was just a
few minutes ago. And our perfect little specimen. Perfection doesn't exist,
It really doesn't. We can think things are beautiful or special,
are wonderful, But perfection in nature, it doesn't exist, and
it's not supposed to. It's all the supposed that we
(17:41):
say to our children. Okay, here's an example. Tell me
how you feel about this.
Speaker 2 (17:45):
Okay, kids used to getting straight a's in school, brings
the report card home straight as in one B.
Speaker 1 (17:53):
Yeah, why couldn't you get all ways?
Speaker 2 (17:55):
Oh?
Speaker 1 (17:56):
What does that do to the kid?
Speaker 2 (17:57):
That makes it feel like I slipped away from the
perfection in my parents' eyes?
Speaker 3 (18:01):
Right right?
Speaker 1 (18:03):
How's that going to screw them up?
Speaker 3 (18:05):
It is a disappointment, to be sure for that child.
Just praise them even if they come home with all
all sees, you know, figure out why. But because it's
feedback again, it's feedback. Figure out why you know what
(18:25):
your child's doing. And if you don't, you know, you
need to take a second and figure that out.
Speaker 1 (18:31):
They're in their room.
Speaker 3 (18:32):
Is it the phone? Is it the computer? Now, of
course they have to do homework with the computer and
with the phone. But have a said time that turn
off the Wi Fi? Just go unplug it and they
turn it off. That's been a surprise when I've told
(18:52):
parents to do that with their children who they'll have
other devices and it's it's like we can't. I'm like, yes,
you can, you control it. Go go unplug it and
blow it affects us too, And then I'm just like
(19:12):
yes and it should.
Speaker 1 (19:14):
Yeah exactly.
Speaker 2 (19:15):
There you go, and along those same lines you're talking
about that.
Speaker 1 (19:19):
It's like I've seen these shirts.
Speaker 2 (19:20):
This is because I'm the mom or because I said so,
and I think you go for it. Because our children
are not born sixty seventy years old. They that's why
they're babies. They have to go along that journey. They
come out knowing nothing, nothing, nothing, And they're not your friends.
Oh my, they have their own friends. You are not
(19:46):
their friend. You are their parents.
Speaker 3 (19:48):
You are their coach, you are their guide. You are
not their friends. And if you think that you are
their friend, they have played you absolutely because they're telling
their seats to their friends. They're telling you some things,
but they're not.
Speaker 1 (20:04):
Telling you about it.
Speaker 2 (20:07):
You know, I would imagine a lot of divorce parents
see that, don't they do that?
Speaker 3 (20:12):
They do, and it's they they are really wanting to
make sure for their child that if the other parent
isn't a supportive parent, that that they're being supportive, and
I understand that and I get it in those situations,
(20:33):
but overall, I mean, you're not their child's friend. They
have their friends, nurture friendships with people their own age.
That's how it should be.
Speaker 2 (20:43):
You know what, I think a lot about structure. Can
you talk about that and explain why structure is so
important for children? What I would imagine gives them a
sense of safety.
Speaker 3 (20:54):
It does it. Structure is important for children, for teenagers,
for adults, for seniors. Structure is across the board.
Speaker 1 (21:05):
Well, how would you define structure.
Speaker 3 (21:07):
That many ways. First there's the structure of time, and
then there's the structure of commitment. There's the structure of
follow through. There are structures within structure that that provide
all of that provides safety. There's the fail safe type
(21:28):
of structure for your your family, your children. That it
you know we're doing, we're double checking, we're triple checking.
That is structure. They need that, they want that, they
must have it. They know you're going to be there
at five thirty. They know when you say you're going
(21:49):
to be there at five thirty, they know you're going
to follow through. With a consequence. If you say you
know do this or x Y and Z will and well,
you know x Y and Z will happen that structure too,
the consequence both good and the learning consequence that is expected,
(22:13):
and their brains need to have that expectancy.
Speaker 1 (22:18):
We know we spoil our kids.
Speaker 2 (22:20):
I mean, kids have more now than they ever had,
but there's got to be a cutoff of that. They
don't appreciate it after they keep getting it. It only
makes common sense, doesn't it.
Speaker 3 (22:33):
Well, the universe, the world likes speed. So the more
we're developing in our society, you know, with the phones,
with technology, the more there's going to be available. So
(22:55):
we have to set our expectations accordingly. Like we know
that this is coming to produce We know that this
phone is going to produce so much more content, and
then that content is going to produce so much more
content and more and more. There's always more. And we
(23:17):
have to teach our children to be satisfied with certain
things now as they are learning and developing. We want
them to explore so that they become proficient in whatever
it is that they enjoy doing. However, being satisfied is
(23:41):
also very necessary to teach our children. We want them
to be superstars. We want them to be the wonderful
football player, the ace, the one who gets all the
good grades, but also be satisfied. Is a sense of peace,
it's content peace, yes, And children need to understand what
(24:06):
that is, what it feels like, what it means in
their brain, what it feels like in their body, that
their brain doesn't have to be continually running.
Speaker 2 (24:16):
Okay, okay, here's something too, why do we have Okay,
here's this. Let me present the situation to you. A
young kid is spoiled, says to another kid. Actually, this
had happened to me. Friends like this. The kid was
spoiled and finally one day said to the k other kid,
to his friend, I wish my mom and dad would
(24:36):
say no to me once. What is that kid saying?
What it really? What is that child saying? Right?
Speaker 3 (24:42):
That child is saying, why are you giving me stuff
instead of love or attention? Or And they might be
the parent might not know how how to love.
Speaker 1 (24:57):
But oh that's rough. That is well, how do you
how do you say no? Oh?
Speaker 2 (25:03):
My goodness, I just thought of something. I still can't
say no to people. It's difficult.
Speaker 3 (25:10):
Well, you for adults, we have to learn how not
to be people pleasers. That is something that generations ago
they put into us when they started coming into this country.
You know, assimilate and don't be seen, you know, don't
(25:31):
be heard. Just be good, be a good representative of
your nationality, you.
Speaker 1 (25:36):
Know, whatever it is, and your religion or whatever. Girls
don't do that.
Speaker 3 (25:41):
Right that that was all taught to our great grandparents,
our grandparents, and they taught that to our parents and
to us, and we teach it to our children, which
is that's very outdated way of thinking.
Speaker 1 (25:59):
Well, to control people's isn't it right?
Speaker 3 (26:03):
Right? Yeah, it's to control. Back then, it was survival
because you know, different waves of people were coming into
the country and they were afraid that. It was a
different time one hundred, one hundred and fifty years ago.
And now it's just you don't have to be a
(26:24):
people pleaser. We're here, we are in a community, we
are so many of us, so people pleasing is outdated. Now.
It's stand in your power, stand in your power.
Speaker 1 (26:40):
You know.
Speaker 2 (26:41):
It's funny because my generation of women were raised that way.
You were caretakers no matter who it is, and we've
always put ourselves we've given up careers we've given up
all kinds of stuff. Then we find ourselves of the
age of retirement and we think, oh my gosh, maybe
I won't be here tomorrow. I never did this, I
(27:01):
never did that. A lot of them are getting really pissed.
They're getting angry. They're getting angry, and you think, well,
you're the one that made the decision. But it was
ingrained in me. Why, Oh my goodness, it's cero. So
I'm not here to say to a young women out there,
knock it off right right, because the time flies, doesn't it.
Speaker 1 (27:19):
It does.
Speaker 3 (27:20):
Do the things you want to do. Are you going
to succeed at all of them? No, it's okay, you
don't have to succeed at all of them. But try
have fun. Go take the class that you think is silly,
or oh I shouldn't do that, I shouldn't want that.
Yes you should. Your brain is telling you you want it,
you know, maybe it's your higher power telling you to
(27:42):
try it for whatever reason. Maybe it's going to open
a door to something else. You don't know until you try.
Speaker 1 (27:48):
You know, when there's a big push.
Speaker 2 (27:51):
Now, and I've mentioned several times on this program for
a skill we need, we need a skilled workforce across
all industry. And talk to somebody from one of the
schools a year or two ago about this, and they said, well,
there are businesses out there, they're desperately looking for kids.
They will train them while still in high school. They
(28:12):
do not have to be paid to the I mean,
they don't have to pay for the training. The kids
will come out making with a job waiting sixty eighty
thousand dollars a year. What kid is going to say,
I don't care what it is. At that age, all
they care about is money. So when your child is,
when your child's trying to decide on something, if they
(28:33):
say something like I want to be an actor, I
want to be pig philosophy, don't shut them down right, Oh, let.
Speaker 1 (28:40):
Them try it.
Speaker 3 (28:41):
Let them try it absolutely, because we have had discussions
that if they aren't able to try that acting, to
try to be the musician that they want to be,
and you push them into college into being an accountant,
they may resent it, then resent their family, and then resent.
Speaker 1 (29:03):
The rest of their lives.
Speaker 2 (29:05):
Oh, Carrie, So all the things I think I want
to talk Michelle and I talked about today. I think
it's all saying don't be so hard on yourself right,
believe in yourself self esteem. You want a happy child,
build a self esteem by making them feel that they contribute,
and contributing means fitting in as the first step to
being happy and successful in dealing with all the things
(29:27):
in your life right.
Speaker 3 (29:28):
Standing in your power and if you didn't do all
these things Sylvia just mentioned forgive yourself, it's okay, it's okay,
start right here.
Speaker 1 (29:37):
I love this. I love this.
Speaker 2 (29:39):
Thank you so much for coming. We're gonna have to
do some more of this stuff. Well, I learned a
lot today. Parenting isn't easy, but we can do it.
Today's guests again has Michelle Willard Howford. You can reach
out to Michelle at Michelle Willardhofford dot com. Boy where
do you check it out? So much good stuff there.
I'm Sylvie Moss. This has been insight. Thanks so much
for listening. See you next week.
Hi, I'm Sylvia Moss.
Speaker 2 (00:01):
This is Insight, a presentation of iHeartMedia where we really
do care about our local communities and all our listeners
who live here. You know, years ago they used to
say there aren't any books out there to teach you
how to raise a child to be happy and successful. Well, now,
although the markt has been flooded with them, these books
and parents seem to gobble them up, but many kids
(00:22):
still struggle. We all know that life these days is
a whole lot harder for kids than it used to
be in previous generation. In and out of school, parents
today are constantly looking for ways to support their children.
My guest today says, in most cases, it doesn't have
to be that way. Kids don't have to struggle to
find their place in the world, and parents well, according
(00:43):
to my guest, Michelle Willard Hawford, the solution to supporting
our kids in an effort for them to be happy
and successful is real simple. This simple answer has been
around for thousands of years and it's ingrained in all
of us. Got your attention, I hope so well, it's
your as mine because anything that I can possibly do
to provide some kind of insight, some direction some answers
(01:06):
to parents as they walk through the journey with the
most precious people in their lives. You bet that I'm
going to jump on it now. I'd like you to
meet former teacher, author and owner of Soaring Minds, Michelle
Willard hoff Or. She's a returning guest because she's so awesome.
I love what she does. I've been really looking forward
to this conversation. I want to ask you first of
(01:26):
all before we start. I know we said you're a teacher,
so you've had that experience with children. Tell us about
Soaring Minds.
Speaker 3 (01:32):
Soaring Minds means I help people figure out their life,
their life and then they can soar. I specifically help
a lot of people who are recovering from narcissistic abuse
or domestic violence, those type of situations. That's where I
(01:53):
am the narcissist layer because I say, I also help
people reach goals like weight loss or public speaking. And
I'm the scale slayer.
Speaker 1 (02:05):
Because and you're very successful at this too.
Speaker 3 (02:08):
I am. It's fun and I say I'm successful not narcissistically,
but because I stand in my power. I own it,
you know, And I want children to do that. I
want the parents to do that. I want people who
have recovered after abuse to stand in their power. It's
(02:29):
not about I'm a victim. I'm a victim. Now you're
a victor. You're a victor, and I'll show you how.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
That's awesome. I love it.
Speaker 2 (02:37):
Okay, let's talk about this simple way that we can
not only help our kids find happiness and success, we
can do it ourself. Just said, it's been around since
the Cayman pretty much, right, What is it?
Speaker 3 (02:49):
Yes, well, of course, it's our intuition. It's our ability
to communicate, it is our ability to love and connect,
to connect, connect. I love that you said it's been
around since the Caveman, because it has. We need to
(03:10):
nurture each other. And it's gonna sound silly like even
the bullies, Uh no, no, thank you. But we need
to nurture our thinking. We need to nurture our thoughts.
We need to nurture our children so that when someone
comes up who is not good for our children, not
(03:31):
good for them, they know instinctively, Like the Caveman, they
knew instinctively. So we're teaching intuition and to follow it
and to trust it. They know instinctively to not go
near those people and that there's a red flag for
(03:51):
a reason.
Speaker 2 (03:52):
Okay, let me ask you this, okay instinctively, let me
see if I'm getting this straight. We're all we're all
born with it into a shay, and in order to
nurture that, you have to feel that you can contribute
to something, right, Okay, So if you're that that brings
I would say a sense of self, like know who
(04:13):
you are, your personality traits, what makes you what you are. Though, Okay,
you had mentioned bullies. They are not born with that
or they didn't. They're born with it, but they didn't
have someone to nurture that, right.
Speaker 1 (04:27):
Is that right?
Speaker 3 (04:27):
Yes? I mean when I have parents and students around,
I have them talk about how they've been nurtured and
what they need to feel nurtured to contribute to the group.
And contribution is what makes a person feel validated. Contribution
(04:51):
is what keeps a group together. So you want everyone
contributing in some way, even the little toddlers.
Speaker 2 (04:59):
Yes, had you brought let's talk about that. I remember
when my son Josh was little, he was like three
or four years old, and what I did was I
put like a piece of whiteboard on the refrigerator and
it was like two three years old. They said, honey,
if you put put your clothes away, or if you
pick up your toys or something by the end of
the week, if he had five stars, I give him
a buck. Well that was years and years of my
(05:20):
husband had a fitty s ten bucks. Whoa, but it
made him feel it made him feel like a big boy,
like it contributed. That's why for so many years I've
been saying to people, get your kids involved in stuff
that they can give back to the community the best
of the most.
Speaker 1 (05:37):
Not only are they doing.
Speaker 2 (05:38):
Something, but boy, it is how wonderful that makes a
child feel. So what would you suggest to parents at
maybe four or five years old that they can do
to support their kids, Like, what activities can parents have
them do?
Speaker 3 (05:52):
Well? When I worked at Milton Hershey School as a
weekend relief house parent, we had at that time we
had the youngest student starting who's just turning four, just
turning forth babies, and I was talking with the house
person and we have at that time we had fifteen
students and they are like, oh no, they're making their
(06:15):
own bed. I'm like, do I make the bed for him?
Do I do this for him, and they're like no,
So they were rotated into the chort program just like
any of the others. And that's where my eyes started
to open up to you know, this being a family, contributing,
(06:36):
being in the in the tribe, so to speak, contributing.
And even the four year old, we had a little
stool and he'd pushed the little stool up to the
washing machine load fifteen students worth of clothing into you know,
but you make it into a game also. I mean
(06:56):
it's a chore, of course, but it's part of life. Yeah,
life is, yes, and life is a game, it really is.
You have to have fun.
Speaker 2 (07:05):
I remember we were chatting about this and you tell me,
if you can empower a five year old kid, they
feel more empowered than a world leader.
Speaker 3 (07:13):
Yes, yes, oftentimes world leaders. I mean they have power,
they make no mistake, and they know they have power.
They know it. People are doing things for them. It's
sort of like reversed. You know, everybody's doing and catering,
and but you have this five year old and you're
(07:34):
giving this five year old responsibility, safe responsibility, and they
feel powered and empowered. And I want to do some more.
I want to do some more.
Speaker 2 (07:46):
You teach exactly to exactly. They feed off of it.
It's wonderful. Okay, we mentioned some of those things what
I wanted to talk about as suggestions. How about things
like as like I said with my son, like put
your things away when you're or feeding the dog.
Speaker 1 (08:02):
What else can they do when they're that young?
Speaker 3 (08:05):
They can rake? I mean it's fall, it's winter, they
can shovel, it's summer. They can plant and malch and
put out the summer mauls, the fall mault. You know,
they can contribute. And you gave your son a dollar.
I mean, how powerful is that? And then they learn
(08:27):
the value of money. That's just by one thing.
Speaker 2 (08:30):
Oh he kept that wallet. Three he would not m
he would hold onto that money.
Speaker 1 (08:34):
That was a riot.
Speaker 2 (08:36):
Okay, let me ask about the flip side of this.
We hear about kids and most these kids that shoot
in schools like in Columbine, they all seem to be
there's mental health, of course issues there, but they're loners, right.
Speaker 3 (08:49):
They don't feel part of the tribe. They do not
feel like part or the tribe has push them out
for whatever reason. Teenagers do that. Preteens do that, you know,
push them out, oh you're weird 'or different. Well, we
need to teach our children that it is okay to
be different and unique and.
Speaker 2 (09:12):
Create.
Speaker 3 (09:13):
They're part of the world in a fun, safe manner,
not to go down that negative whole you know of
I'm so angry they didn't let me be part of
their groups, Like.
Speaker 2 (09:27):
That's what it's all about, right, I don't fit in?
Okay bullying, What do you say to a child, because
you know that stuff starts when they're real little. It
does when they're in that position somebody tries to bully them,
what should we tell them to do?
Speaker 3 (09:42):
So if they're really little, I would definitely tell the
teacher and the conversation with your child about trusting adults
and what type of adult to trust. Not every adult,
but the teacher. Their teacher is supposed to be step one,
(10:03):
you know, supposed to be Well.
Speaker 2 (10:05):
Do you think enough teachers take an interest to that
and they say, oh, go sit down.
Speaker 3 (10:10):
I It depends. It depends on where the school is,
how overworked the school is. That's why if a relative
can volunteer, and I'm not saying just the mom and
just the dad, but if a grandmother or an aunt
or a cousin who's older can volunteer in the classroom
(10:33):
and watch what's going on. That's always helpful. There's always
in the community also, community people want to volunteer in
the classroom and they go through their clearances and then
they can be part of it too. Teachers are overworked.
You and I both know that. We've talked about that,
(10:54):
but that is administration. They need to support their teachers
by allowing their teacher to talk to the students to
and this is across the grade levels, not just Okay,
we have thirty four minutes for math, we have twenty
(11:15):
two minutes for science, and you know, stick to that.
You have to allow the teacher to teach kindness, to
teach what it means to have civics, to to be
part of a society. They're they're they're taking that out
(11:36):
of the curriculum.
Speaker 1 (11:36):
Well, I know, and there's a whole lot of stuff
in schools.
Speaker 2 (11:39):
I mean, I I understand. Well, when I was in school,
it was memorization, and so what we were doing it
was out of my mind. You know, it's not how
George Washington, he was freezing his butt off. I mean,
kids relate to that kind of stuff, But we can
re memorized stuff. You're gonna have to, And I feel
bad for the teacher. So a lot of them feel
(12:00):
the same way. But what are you going to do.
One of the things I know you wanted to talk
about is those two lies that kids we tell kids.
The first lie and this happens a lot, and we'll
talk about helicopter parents. First lie is failure.
Speaker 3 (12:17):
It doesn't exist. It doesn't exist. I'm repeating it so
everyone hears it for their brain. Failure does not exist.
That does not exist. And I say that children might
come home with a little F on their paper, I failed. No, No,
that's feedback. Whatever grade they're receiving on that paper, that
(12:37):
just feedback. It means they didn't study enough, or maybe
they didn't get a good night's sleep, or they were
distracted by a boy or a girl, or someone bothering them,
or TV or their cell phone. It's feedback. Or maybe
the teacher didn't teach the content the way your child
studied it. You know, it's feedback.
Speaker 2 (12:58):
We kids learn different ways. That's another thing we have
to think about.
Speaker 1 (13:04):
Yeah, it's feedback. Okay, helicopter parents.
Speaker 3 (13:07):
Oh god, oh my gosh, let your children play. Let
them fall. We're all going to fall. That's just how
it is, and that's how we learn. And they're going
to do dumb things and that's how they learn. There's
going to be consequences. Let them have the consequence. It's
(13:31):
not going to you know, scar them. It's going to
empower them eventually. Of course they're not going to like
it right away, but eventually they'll learn from it. There's
positive consequence, there's negative consequence. Let them experience the consequence.
They had to. You had to, I had to. You
(13:55):
cannot helicopter over every little minutia that you're trying aile does.
Let them have fun, Let them have a journey of life.
Speaker 1 (14:03):
That's right. I agree.
Speaker 2 (14:04):
Okay, here's I'm a couple present a couple of situations
and see what you have to say about. Okay, you're
fourteen or fifteen years old, right, you're playing high school football.
Speaker 1 (14:15):
You're the one that always is, you're the superstar.
Speaker 2 (14:18):
You're in the championship game, and you've missed the winning
catch in the last couple seconds of the game.
Speaker 1 (14:25):
And first thing, your father says, I can't believe you
missed that catch. Should that father have said that.
Speaker 3 (14:32):
No, you, you don't relive the negative you He trust
and believe that football player has already learned the lesson
in their mind about what they should have done. And
any professional athlete will tell you that when the game
(14:52):
is over, the game is over, we're looking forward to
the next thing.
Speaker 2 (14:58):
Well, I would think it makes a f The father
says that in the kid feels like they're a screw up, right,
and that was a big time in their life. And right,
there's a lot of people that maybe you're fourteen or fifteen,
but they're sixty and they're still carrying.
Speaker 1 (15:11):
That feeling around their whole life.
Speaker 2 (15:14):
Yes, and it's impacting everything they do in their life, right, right, right,
So how we're messing up our children?
Speaker 1 (15:20):
Right?
Speaker 3 (15:21):
And if they really want this superstar superstar to be
a superstar superstar, they have to realize that there's a
whole read a book about sports psychology or you know,
this applies to anything, because once it's over, it's over.
We're looking forward to the next thing, the next game,
(15:41):
the next play, the next I'm going to reflect on
the Super Bowl champions, the Chiefs, they just keep going forward.
They are not looking in the past. Yes, they want Okay,
good for them. They also lost a couple of games. Okay,
well you know you take that, but you learn and
(16:04):
you move forward. You move forward. You coach, you are coached.
So as parents for education, for sports, for their hobbies,
you coach them. You don't degrade them, you don't over
praise them, you coach them into the next level.
Speaker 1 (16:25):
Wow, let's talk about that second. Why that you talk about.
Speaker 2 (16:30):
I know a lot of parents say I'm not going
to raise my kids the way my parents raised me.
Speaker 1 (16:34):
Perfection. We end up doing that anyway, don't we.
Speaker 3 (16:39):
True, But I have to tell you perfection is a lie.
It doesn't exist. These two words, failure and perfection should
be just blasted out of our minds, blasted out of
our vocabulary. People always say they want perfection, Well, it
doesn't exist. So you're going to chase after something that
(17:03):
you will never ever attain. And it's just you're gonna
chase your tail. So people tell me, oh, my baby,
my baby, they're perfect. Okay, right, okay, my child, my
child is perfect.
Speaker 4 (17:21):
Let me tell you where their finger was just a
few minutes ago. And our perfect little specimen. Perfection doesn't exist,
It really doesn't. We can think things are beautiful or special,
are wonderful, But perfection in nature, it doesn't exist, and
it's not supposed to. It's all the supposed that we
(17:41):
say to our children. Okay, here's an example. Tell me
how you feel about this.
Speaker 2 (17:45):
Okay, kids used to getting straight a's in school, brings
the report card home straight as in one B.
Speaker 1 (17:53):
Yeah, why couldn't you get all ways?
Speaker 2 (17:55):
Oh?
Speaker 1 (17:56):
What does that do to the kid?
Speaker 2 (17:57):
That makes it feel like I slipped away from the
perfection in my parents' eyes?
Speaker 3 (18:01):
Right right?
Speaker 1 (18:03):
How's that going to screw them up?
Speaker 3 (18:05):
It is a disappointment, to be sure for that child.
Just praise them even if they come home with all
all sees, you know, figure out why. But because it's
feedback again, it's feedback. Figure out why you know what
(18:25):
your child's doing. And if you don't, you know, you
need to take a second and figure that out.
Speaker 1 (18:31):
They're in their room.
Speaker 3 (18:32):
Is it the phone? Is it the computer? Now, of
course they have to do homework with the computer and
with the phone. But have a said time that turn
off the Wi Fi? Just go unplug it and they
turn it off. That's been a surprise when I've told
(18:52):
parents to do that with their children who they'll have
other devices and it's it's like we can't. I'm like, yes,
you can, you control it. Go go unplug it and
blow it affects us too, And then I'm just like
(19:12):
yes and it should.
Speaker 1 (19:14):
Yeah exactly.
Speaker 2 (19:15):
There you go, and along those same lines you're talking
about that.
Speaker 1 (19:19):
It's like I've seen these shirts.
Speaker 2 (19:20):
This is because I'm the mom or because I said so,
and I think you go for it. Because our children
are not born sixty seventy years old. They that's why
they're babies. They have to go along that journey. They
come out knowing nothing, nothing, nothing, And they're not your friends.
Oh my, they have their own friends. You are not
(19:46):
their friend. You are their parents.
Speaker 3 (19:48):
You are their coach, you are their guide. You are
not their friends. And if you think that you are
their friend, they have played you absolutely because they're telling
their seats to their friends. They're telling you some things,
but they're not.
Speaker 1 (20:04):
Telling you about it.
Speaker 2 (20:07):
You know, I would imagine a lot of divorce parents
see that, don't they do that?
Speaker 3 (20:12):
They do, and it's they they are really wanting to
make sure for their child that if the other parent
isn't a supportive parent, that that they're being supportive, and
I understand that and I get it in those situations,
(20:33):
but overall, I mean, you're not their child's friend. They
have their friends, nurture friendships with people their own age.
That's how it should be.
Speaker 2 (20:43):
You know what, I think a lot about structure. Can
you talk about that and explain why structure is so
important for children? What I would imagine gives them a
sense of safety.
Speaker 3 (20:54):
It does it. Structure is important for children, for teenagers,
for adults, for seniors. Structure is across the board.
Speaker 1 (21:05):
Well, how would you define structure.
Speaker 3 (21:07):
That many ways. First there's the structure of time, and
then there's the structure of commitment. There's the structure of
follow through. There are structures within structure that that provide
all of that provides safety. There's the fail safe type
(21:28):
of structure for your your family, your children. That it
you know we're doing, we're double checking, we're triple checking.
That is structure. They need that, they want that, they
must have it. They know you're going to be there
at five thirty. They know when you say you're going
(21:49):
to be there at five thirty, they know you're going
to follow through. With a consequence. If you say you
know do this or x Y and Z will and well,
you know x Y and Z will happen that structure too,
the consequence both good and the learning consequence that is expected,
(22:13):
and their brains need to have that expectancy.
Speaker 1 (22:18):
We know we spoil our kids.
Speaker 2 (22:20):
I mean, kids have more now than they ever had,
but there's got to be a cutoff of that. They
don't appreciate it after they keep getting it. It only
makes common sense, doesn't it.
Speaker 3 (22:33):
Well, the universe, the world likes speed. So the more
we're developing in our society, you know, with the phones,
with technology, the more there's going to be available. So
(22:55):
we have to set our expectations accordingly. Like we know
that this is coming to produce We know that this
phone is going to produce so much more content, and
then that content is going to produce so much more
content and more and more. There's always more. And we
(23:17):
have to teach our children to be satisfied with certain
things now as they are learning and developing. We want
them to explore so that they become proficient in whatever
it is that they enjoy doing. However, being satisfied is
(23:41):
also very necessary to teach our children. We want them
to be superstars. We want them to be the wonderful
football player, the ace, the one who gets all the
good grades, but also be satisfied. Is a sense of peace,
it's content peace, yes, And children need to understand what
(24:06):
that is, what it feels like, what it means in
their brain, what it feels like in their body, that
their brain doesn't have to be continually running.
Speaker 2 (24:16):
Okay, okay, here's something too, why do we have Okay,
here's this. Let me present the situation to you. A
young kid is spoiled, says to another kid. Actually, this
had happened to me. Friends like this. The kid was
spoiled and finally one day said to the k other kid,
to his friend, I wish my mom and dad would
(24:36):
say no to me once. What is that kid saying?
What it really? What is that child saying? Right?
Speaker 3 (24:42):
That child is saying, why are you giving me stuff
instead of love or attention? Or And they might be
the parent might not know how how to love.
Speaker 1 (24:57):
But oh that's rough. That is well, how do you
how do you say no? Oh?
Speaker 2 (25:03):
My goodness, I just thought of something. I still can't
say no to people. It's difficult.
Speaker 3 (25:10):
Well, you for adults, we have to learn how not
to be people pleasers. That is something that generations ago
they put into us when they started coming into this country.
You know, assimilate and don't be seen, you know, don't
(25:31):
be heard. Just be good, be a good representative of
your nationality, you.
Speaker 1 (25:36):
Know, whatever it is, and your religion or whatever. Girls
don't do that.
Speaker 3 (25:41):
Right that that was all taught to our great grandparents,
our grandparents, and they taught that to our parents and
to us, and we teach it to our children, which
is that's very outdated way of thinking.
Speaker 1 (25:59):
Well, to control people's isn't it right?
Speaker 3 (26:03):
Right? Yeah, it's to control. Back then, it was survival
because you know, different waves of people were coming into
the country and they were afraid that. It was a
different time one hundred, one hundred and fifty years ago.
And now it's just you don't have to be a
(26:24):
people pleaser. We're here, we are in a community, we
are so many of us, so people pleasing is outdated. Now.
It's stand in your power, stand in your power.
Speaker 1 (26:40):
You know.
Speaker 2 (26:41):
It's funny because my generation of women were raised that way.
You were caretakers no matter who it is, and we've
always put ourselves we've given up careers we've given up
all kinds of stuff. Then we find ourselves of the
age of retirement and we think, oh my gosh, maybe
I won't be here tomorrow. I never did this, I
(27:01):
never did that. A lot of them are getting really pissed.
They're getting angry. They're getting angry, and you think, well,
you're the one that made the decision. But it was
ingrained in me. Why, Oh my goodness, it's cero. So
I'm not here to say to a young women out there,
knock it off right right, because the time flies, doesn't it.
Speaker 1 (27:19):
It does.
Speaker 3 (27:20):
Do the things you want to do. Are you going
to succeed at all of them? No, it's okay, you
don't have to succeed at all of them. But try
have fun. Go take the class that you think is silly,
or oh I shouldn't do that, I shouldn't want that.
Yes you should. Your brain is telling you you want it,
you know, maybe it's your higher power telling you to
(27:42):
try it for whatever reason. Maybe it's going to open
a door to something else. You don't know until you try.
Speaker 1 (27:48):
You know, when there's a big push.
Speaker 2 (27:51):
Now, and I've mentioned several times on this program for
a skill we need, we need a skilled workforce across
all industry. And talk to somebody from one of the
schools a year or two ago about this, and they said, well,
there are businesses out there, they're desperately looking for kids.
They will train them while still in high school. They
(28:12):
do not have to be paid to the I mean,
they don't have to pay for the training. The kids
will come out making with a job waiting sixty eighty
thousand dollars a year. What kid is going to say,
I don't care what it is. At that age, all
they care about is money. So when your child is,
when your child's trying to decide on something, if they
(28:33):
say something like I want to be an actor, I
want to be pig philosophy, don't shut them down right, Oh, let.
Speaker 1 (28:40):
Them try it.
Speaker 3 (28:41):
Let them try it absolutely, because we have had discussions
that if they aren't able to try that acting, to
try to be the musician that they want to be,
and you push them into college into being an accountant,
they may resent it, then resent their family, and then resent.
Speaker 1 (29:03):
The rest of their lives.
Speaker 2 (29:05):
Oh, Carrie, So all the things I think I want
to talk Michelle and I talked about today. I think
it's all saying don't be so hard on yourself right,
believe in yourself self esteem. You want a happy child,
build a self esteem by making them feel that they contribute,
and contributing means fitting in as the first step to
being happy and successful in dealing with all the things
(29:27):
in your life right.
Speaker 3 (29:28):
Standing in your power and if you didn't do all
these things Sylvia just mentioned forgive yourself, it's okay, it's okay,
start right here.
Speaker 1 (29:37):
I love this. I love this.
Speaker 2 (29:39):
Thank you so much for coming. We're gonna have to
do some more of this stuff. Well, I learned a
lot today. Parenting isn't easy, but we can do it.
Today's guests again has Michelle Willard Howford. You can reach
out to Michelle at Michelle Willardhofford dot com. Boy where
do you check it out? So much good stuff there.
I'm Sylvie Moss. This has been insight. Thanks so much
for listening. See you next week.
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Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!