December 26, 2024 • 30 mins
“Taking a look at the Adult Employment Services offered to adults with autism by accomplished local agency and why this agency far exceeds others nationally.” vistaautismservices.org
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hi, I'm Sylvia Moss, and this is insight presentation of iHeartMedia,
where we really do care about our local communities and
all our listeners who live here. If anything, gives credence
to the phrase that begins with, don't assume. It's a
topic that we're going to discuss today. About ten maybe
fifteen years ago when I started addressing the topic of
(00:21):
autism on this program, one out of one hundred and
twenty five children were being diagnosed with autism at that time.
Now that number is one out of thirty six. So
to better understand, correct and prove that you should not
assume what you think you know about autism, I'm going
to give you a couple of the most common misperceptions.
(00:42):
First of all, autism is a learning disability. That is
not true. People with autism don't feel emotion, beloney. All
autistic people have special abilities, know some like the rest
of us do and some don't. And the biggest lie,
the one that we're going to focus on today, is
autistic people can't work and live independently. Many autistic people
(01:07):
do live independent lives and lives, and the statement that
they do not is going to be totally annihilated by
my guests. Today, there are services or children with autism,
but still not enough. On a national level, for adult
eighteen and over, available services are a little over twenty percent. However,
here in central Pennsylvania, Vistem Autism Services in Hershey provides
(01:30):
the remarkable services for adults in Cumberland, Dauphin, and Lebanon Counties.
In fact, it's about a thirty mile radius of Hershey
that they provide their services. In fact, their adult employment
services should be used as a model for others who
attempt the same with us. Today from Vista Autism Services
are enzi Uban Allen. She is the CEO. Mary Lou
(01:53):
Winners as the manager of Visa's Adult Employment Services team.
Before we go any further, guys, just jump in. Let's
talk about some of these things and just give me
a general idea about why it is not true autism
is a learning disability.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
How about that, Mary Lou?
Speaker 3 (02:09):
Is it so autism is considered a developmental disability. It's
a difference, and the difference would be that a learning
disability is trouble learning new information, whereas a developmental disability.
In this case, the characteristics are really the ability to
process and engage in social interactions.
Speaker 1 (02:31):
So you don't learn this, this is something in your brain.
You're born with it. Correct, Okay, that's interesting. People with
autism don't have emotion Well I would think that people
think that because a lot of times they're quiet because
of the social part of it.
Speaker 2 (02:47):
Right, Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 3 (02:49):
So we just talked about, you know, the processing and
engaging in social interactions. So rather than you know, assuming
that someone doesn't have emotional feelings, it's really understanding that
they just have a little bit more trouble kind of
uh explaining that or expressing what their feelings are.
Speaker 1 (03:08):
All autistic people have special abilities.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
We got there.
Speaker 1 (03:11):
I think people when that movie rain Man came out,
that was that was not something that was a gift
for people with autism, that one the other.
Speaker 2 (03:19):
It shouldn't have been that way because everybody pigeonhole.
Speaker 1 (03:22):
Yeah they pigeonhole. They think everybody's like that not true?
Is it true that every person has like some type
of special ability.
Speaker 3 (03:32):
So what you're talking about is court considered you know,
like a savant ability. So you know, everybody with autism
might not have thoset, you know, but I would say
that everybody with autism has you know, unique talents and skills,
and again, you know, sometimes it's difficult for these individuals
to express them or tell us what their talents are,
(03:53):
or even show us what their talents are. So I
think that's what we do really well here at best
Autisms is understanding all of the characteristics of autism and
really knowing how to not only teach individuals with autism,
but pull those skills out and showcase them, you know,
across all age groups and abilities and you know, ways
(04:19):
of communicating. We kind of pull those those talents and
skills out.
Speaker 1 (04:23):
Before we talk more about how the school started, the
services start, and everything. The German family, I want to
ask both, if you don't mind, it's not anything we've
known about this since the early nineteen hundreds, but why
all of a sudden over the last ten or fifteen
years are we hearing about it. And I'll be honest
with you, I had a researcher from the Gey Singer
(04:45):
telling me they're going to cut they're close to finding
out what causes it. I mean, you've heard how many
people ten fifteen years ago didn't get shots for their
kids because they were told the de vel autism which
was Bolognian. We don't really truly know where it comes.
Speaker 2 (05:02):
Exactly, right, Yeah, and there's many theories on that, whether
is it environmental, is it the age of parents when
they're conceiving the kinds of it's all kinds of stuff.
And I think nowadays because of research and just further
for the research and individuals looking in the field of
(05:24):
autism and testing and developmentally, you know, that's why we're
seeing more of it, because there is if you want
an individual to be assessed for special ed or whatnot, okay,
well we burd do a neuro test on the individual
and to see do they have autism or any other disability.
(05:47):
So I think more and more testing is being done.
So then hence you're seeing more individuals who are being
diagnosed and a more understanding. To get away from that
rain Man theory of how it's autism is a spectrum, right,
you know, right, it's a spectrum disorder and there's higher
functioning and there's lower functioning. It's all and all in between.
Speaker 1 (06:11):
Well, I remember from years ago you couldn't have a
child evaluated until they were eighteen months old.
Speaker 2 (06:18):
Is it still that way? We're even older? I think
and nowadays I think it's lower the threshold to the
evaluations that can happen because now there is the research
and information and experts who know how to test children developmentally.
Speaker 1 (06:37):
Okay, where they should be at a certain point in
their lives. But that's boloney too, because you know how
that is, you'll have kids. I know of this young
lady who didn't speak, she was four years old. They
diagnosed her with autism. She did all of a sudden,
she started talking. She just got her masters. And I mean,
you don't know how this, but those support services are
what's important and what goes along in Something I was
(07:00):
going to ask you about was the German family. Thank
God for people like that. Incredible talk to us about that.
Speaker 2 (07:05):
Incredible. So the Jarmans, Mike Michael Jarman and his wife
Deirdre Jarman had twenty years ago, twenty plus years ago,
had twin boys who were diagnosed with autism. Back then,
it was during the days when not a lot was
known about autism, and so he at the time, and
(07:27):
Mike Jarman was a lawyer at the time, he went
to Rutgers University and went and found clinicians to bring
to their home. So basically they created an autism program
for their twins. Wow in their house, so true mom
and pop operation. And they were using funds, their own
(07:48):
personal funds and quite a bit of it to pay
these clinicians who were you know, providing the autism services
for their sons. And many people would be knocking on
their door saying, oh, we hear you have this autism program,
and the Garmans were explaining that, no, we're just you know,
trying to help out our kids. They heard this more
(08:11):
and more more and more people who obviously many people
did not have the personal funds that the Germans had
to create exactly. So then what the Jarmans decided, We've
got to do something, and kudos there totally could have
walked away, It would have been easy, would have walked away.
And they found other friends who had small children with autism.
(08:34):
I think it was maybe four or six families that
got together and basically because they weren't able to get
the education that they felt, you know, their children needed
in the school system. As you Sylvia, you pointed out,
people no dis to the school system, none whatsoever at
that time, still not understanding what is needed. Autism is
(08:57):
still very new so they they had these clinicians, you know,
teach their kids, do therapies with their kids until they
got to kindergarten and then it's like, now what are
we gonna do? So then they said, okay, well we
bears create somewhat of an elementary sort of school, and
we're in different parts of central Pennsylvania, you know, in
(09:22):
in a business office area. And then eventually to two
thousand and eleven where the Vista School that you spoke
about in Hershey, it was in Springboard. Springboard is the
location and where then it was created this school from
(09:46):
K to twelve kind of thing. And again, these are
children who are have been identified as individuals who cannot
make it in the regular public school system. So they
come to us because of the behaviors that they have
and what they're going through. And we're in a school that,
(10:09):
as Mary lou said, we have the expertise to teach
and to learn what what is needed to bring out
those the strengths that are individuals.
Speaker 1 (10:25):
Like correct me, please if I'm wrong. There are a
lot of people who are in that spectrum who are brilliant,
there are people who are average, there are people just
like us, and that is a just like they say,
it has something to do with the brain. It's not
a choice. So what you guys do is you have
the capability to work with every level of these children
(10:48):
from the time they're a little on upright.
Speaker 2 (10:51):
And exactly on up. And so you're starting like we
have an early intervention program that starts with the kids
as you were talking about two, and I think we're
even starting at eighteen eighteen months and going right up
to adulthood. And again those early intervention the children who
are identified when their toddlers are younger. With early intervention,
(11:16):
you're going to have more success rate of success than
coming later on. So it's all about if you put
in a lot at the beginning, you're not going to
have to be investing so many more.
Speaker 1 (11:33):
You know, legislators say dollars, Yeah, later on, legislators tell
me about that. Have supportive? Have the legislature been.
Speaker 2 (11:42):
The legislation I know the governor just upped it. Yes,
the budget and the rates and the rates has been helpful,
has been helpful, and we are greatly very thankful for that.
We would still say, though there's more that you know
can be done, especially when we look at approved the
(12:05):
funds for the approved private schools, where when we're talking
about our school decade of twelve, the funding it's still
insufficient because that funding helps school districts to kind of maybe,
let's say, take the edge off of how much the
school district would be on for to educate an individual
(12:29):
who has autism, because it is costly, you know, the
ratio to.
Speaker 1 (12:33):
Staffs and where you are. But that's another thing I
wanted to ask you. At what point do you work
towards the point where all these children eventually go to
another school or do they stay at Vista till till
theyre eighteen years old?
Speaker 2 (12:48):
For the most part, they do stay at Vista. And
we will say also we do have another program called
the Cove program, which is a program in Carlisle School
District where we have Vista staff who are implanted in
the school in the school district, working side by side
(13:11):
with the other general ed educators. Where is where is
like the Capital Area Intermediate Union this part? How do
they with kids like that? That's something Mary Lou.
Speaker 3 (13:26):
Probably yes, So we're not necessarily connected to no intermediate units.
There are a few in the area.
Speaker 1 (13:33):
Is that the question I would imagine they get the
kids that need some support. Do they sometimes refer those
children to you?
Speaker 3 (13:40):
In some cases we do work together, yes.
Speaker 2 (13:44):
Yeah, because our students And that's the other thing, you know,
parents hear about Vista, I want in I want my
child to go to Vista, right, And we work very
closely with the school districts because the school districts need
to refer students to us. Mom and dad can't just hey,
I want my child to go here, because of course,
(14:06):
as we all know, the school district has budgets and
they so do you. Yeah, and some school districts, now
as we've been talking more knowledge about autism, there are
some schools who are saying, hey, we can do this.
We can provide those supports and resources and have at it.
And that's great if you can. It's important that it's
(14:28):
done properly and with the staff who has the expertise,
and we certainly have a track record of twenty years
plus right, having the staff and the modality of therapy
to support our students so that once they leave high
school and Mary Lou's going to talk about it, then
(14:50):
they'll go into adult services and what's needed there. But
it is an line of expertise, and I think has
happened in the last few years. There are now for
profit companies that are offering autism services and they're looking
(15:11):
at the bottom line making the profit. They might not
be doing it exactly in the exact way that's to
the advantage of what effective.
Speaker 1 (15:23):
Child Well, how do you determine that? How do you
find out if, like say, somebody comes in said, I
heard you this, blah blah blah, how do you find
out if they measure up to Vista.
Speaker 2 (15:33):
Well, and I don't want, you know, our competitors out
there to say, hey, Vista, Vista, I do we believe,
we believe we have a model that works and families. Yeah,
and it's data driven data research. It's not just we're
saying it like we're you know, we're documenting, we're calculating,
(15:57):
we can show the success and the accomplishments. Because it is.
It's data driven and that's the bottom line kind of thing.
I believe other programs, especially if we're looking at the
for profit, they're still I think trying to understand that.
(16:18):
I'll put it that way.
Speaker 1 (16:20):
They see it as a way to make it money,
like most things. And Mary got to talk to you
you have dealt with over three hundred kind of compliance. Okay, yeah, okay.
We were talking about evaluation when a child is very young.
As you said, Anzie, that that's the best way to
do want it to work out, okay, but they have
(16:40):
to be evaluated. How is that evaluation done when the
kids Well let's talk about switch s gears and go
from adults or from children to adults. So you have
a kid's eighteen years old, what do you look for?
How do you evaluate them to see if they're ready
to go out and get a job.
Speaker 3 (16:55):
Yeah, sure, a great question. I'm going to talk a
little bit more in general than just employment, but really
we work closely with school districts, with you know, uh
staff members at the Vista School wherever these students are
graduating from and sort of learn about, you know, what,
what is what are their hopes and dreams, what could
life look like for them? And that's typically a combination
(17:20):
of a lot of different services. So at Vista we
provide day services that's more like leisure activities, volunteer opportunities,
you know, go out in the community and just be
a part of the community. We have an in home
an intensive in home program where for individuals that have
(17:41):
you know, more intensive behaviors and need to be able
to you know, be in a safe environment, we have
staff that go into the home help them with you know,
skills of daily living leisure activities. They do also go
out in the community and engage in leisure activities and
things in the community. And then we have our employment program,
which I'm obviously a little bit biased that, yeah, and
(18:04):
then we also have a really wonderful service called behavior
support services, and uh those are trained clinicians in terms
of helping people, uh live their best life when it
comes to their behaviors. So if if somebody is really
engaging in some undesirable behaviors, we're gonna spend a lot
(18:25):
of time learning why and giving them replacement behaviors that
you know, sometimes if it's just I don't feel well
and I don't know how to tell you, you know,
those replacement behaviors of just you know, being able to
express how you're feeling. And those behavior support services can
overlap any of our other services.
Speaker 1 (18:42):
And you combine, like the adult service, employment services with
the residential you have all kinds of work things out right.
Speaker 3 (18:48):
Yes, absolutely so, Vista doesn't have. We don't have our
own residential program, but we work with lots and lots
of individuals that live in residential settings. And again it's
really that you know, culmination of all the services that
they need to live out their hopes and dreams. So
I might work a few days, engage in some leisure
activities in the community, and live at a residential home
(19:10):
all at one time. So going back to your question
about evaluations, it's really what are their hopes and dreams,
what are the services available to provide those services so
that they can engage in whatever they want to do
in life. And then, you know the most challenging question,
then what funding do they have available to pay for
(19:31):
those services? So we work really closely with you know,
staff members and families when students are in school and
coming up to graduation, but we also work really closely
with teams of individuals that have already been long graduated
and are just now realizing that they want to work.
Speaker 1 (19:49):
Okay, and typically are they minimum wage jobs or if
somebody wants to go to college, I mean, how do
you figure all this out?
Speaker 3 (19:59):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (20:00):
Question?
Speaker 3 (20:01):
So we get that question a lot from employers because,
as you know, when I tell you about our process.
We work really really closely with employers to help identify
good matches for the needs that they have, and they
always ask us how much should we pay them, And
the answer is as much as you would pay anyone
else to do the same work. So, you know, we've
(20:21):
got individuals working for minimum wage because they're doing a
minimum wage job, but we have individuals who are making
quite a bit more than that, you know. And it
also follows the market. You know, distribution warehouses are really
big right now and they're paying a lot, So the
individuals that we have in that industry are likely not
making minimum wage.
Speaker 1 (20:40):
Okay, So you say you have a kid who wants
to go to college and they have these this social issue,
how do you get how do you make sure they're
ready to go?
Speaker 3 (20:48):
Yeah, great question. So we don't provide those kinds of
services in order to you know, support people in college,
but there are programs that you know, provide you know,
if they need someone to take notes for them, or
if they need instructional materials to be modified, things like that.
It's not something we do right now, but it is available.
(21:10):
And again, it's really just about learning what are those
hopes and dreams, what help do they need and then
you know, finding the resources for that.
Speaker 2 (21:18):
And I'd like to please interrupt us to say, as
Mary Lou talks about our employment program, when you were
talking about minimum wage or how people are paid, it
has like an eighty five percent success rate of placement
in jobs that they're competitive, competitively employed and it's not
(21:39):
piecemeal work.
Speaker 1 (21:40):
It's not you know, we'll give you an example or
a success story, either of you or both of you.
Speaker 3 (21:46):
Sure, I would love to let me think of one.
There's so many. So my favorite story to share is
just an individual. He started out with us in the
Vesta School. One of the the reason he came for
his public school was because he was being sent home
every day and he you know, he was engaging in
some behaviors because he couldn't express his wants and needs.
(22:09):
So we got him at the Vista School. We started
listening to him in the way that he could communicate,
teaching him better ways of communicating. But one of the
behaviors that he continued to engage in, and this happened
at home with mom as well, was he really wanted
to organize everything. So you know, you walk around to
school and you're gonna find things out of place, and
(22:30):
those things bothered him quite a bit, and Mom would
always complain, oh my gosh, he moved something again, he
took something again. I can't find this. He didn't think
it belonged on the counter, and now it's gone. He
probably put it away somewhere. So we actually were working
with a local beverage distribution company and just trying to
(22:51):
learn what their unmet needs were.
Speaker 2 (22:54):
So got a.
Speaker 3 (22:57):
Tour the warehouse, saw a pile of product and asked
what it was, and they sort of described a situation
where they, you know, a palette or the plastic was
poked on the pallette and now all of a sudden
it's considered damaged and they can't do anything with it.
So it sits in the warehouse until it's about to
expire and they have to pull all their workers off
(23:18):
the floor to dump the product out because it's expired.
So they're just dumping dollar signs down the sink, right,
So they actually created a position that didn't exist before.
They hired this gentleman to come and take the palette apart,
put them back together so they weren't considered damaged any longer.
Sell the product help their bottom line, and he works
(23:41):
five days a week. Now, he's been there, Fir. I
think he's coming up on his eight years. And wow,
he's too tired when he gets home to move things
around at mom's house. So he's really it's really helped
mom out a little bit. But that's one of our
one of my favorite stories. But just to add to that,
you know, we're talking about individuals. He's got this amazing,
(24:02):
incredible skill and interest in organizing things like if I
had the money, would hire somebody to organize my house, right,
got tons of kids at home. But this skill would
be underutilized if he didn't have an agency that could
provide the services to help connect him to employment, because
he couldn't walk into a warehouse and say, hey, I've
(24:24):
got a skill for you. I want, you know, hire me.
And we did that for him. And I also say
that he's a he's a tall, strong man, and he
also loves to shoot hoops with his coworkers. And you know,
he's been really been integrated. He's been an employee of
the Month several times over the years. And yeah, he's
just he's bringing more than just the you know, the
(24:48):
bottom line to the company.
Speaker 2 (24:50):
Yeah, just the project. Yes, he works here and he's
part of our organization. And and kudos to Mary Lou
and her employment staff and career developers who go to
these employers to say, hey, talk to us, because many
of them will say, I can't even get the typical
(25:14):
staff person to work these jobs or to come in,
and you want me to work with someone who's got
what behaviors and what going on? Oh no, no, no,
there's no way. But Mary Lewin her staff when they
come in because they've been trained. They went to University
of Virginia, I believe is where we got because they're
the experts in doing this kind of training and developing
(25:37):
of staff to work with individuals to do job and
employment development. And they're able to go in to the
employer and sit down and say, as Mary Lou said,
well what's going on over there or what are your needs?
And here's how we can join the two with an
individual who, yeah, may have certain behaviors, but they've got
(25:59):
a skill set and be able to work, and we've
got the staff we'll be with you. And I think
what ends up happening is exactly like this, gentleman. The
teams and the co workers are like, oh, yeah that
you know. He works well with this, works well with that.
As we talked, we all have certain things that work
well with us. And that's just how it is. And
you know what, Vista, We're good. Thanks, thanks for the
(26:20):
training you've been in here. We're good. He's eight years later,
he's like anyone else. And at the end of the day,
when we're talking about legislators, this is what you want
to invest in because this is an individual who is
now giving back to his community. That's right, pay and
taxes or whatever. It's not looking for government handout or subsidy.
(26:43):
He is giving to the community. Well, ladies, we're gonna
wrap this up. And here I go again.
Speaker 1 (26:47):
I get some of these problems. I get so wrapped
up and I ask if you please come back next
week because we're not done talking with this.
Speaker 2 (26:53):
So I want to tell my listeners.
Speaker 1 (26:55):
Of course, catch inside on one of the ten Ihearts
stations this weekend if you can find it on your
favorite podcast app. With us today from Vista Autism Services
and hershey enzi obenelo Ceo and Mary lou Winners, manager
Vista's Adult Employment Team. We'll talk more with you about
this next week, You're gonna want to listen. I'm Sylvia
(27:16):
Moss's has been insight. Thanks so much for listening. See
you next week.
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Brought to you by the US for Service, your State Foster,
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Hi, I'm Sylvia Moss, and this is insight presentation of iHeartMedia,
where we really do care about our local communities and
all our listeners who live here. If anything, gives credence
to the phrase that begins with, don't assume. It's a
topic that we're going to discuss today. About ten maybe
fifteen years ago when I started addressing the topic of
(00:21):
autism on this program, one out of one hundred and
twenty five children were being diagnosed with autism at that time.
Now that number is one out of thirty six. So
to better understand, correct and prove that you should not
assume what you think you know about autism, I'm going
to give you a couple of the most common misperceptions.
(00:42):
First of all, autism is a learning disability. That is
not true. People with autism don't feel emotion, beloney. All
autistic people have special abilities, know some like the rest
of us do and some don't. And the biggest lie,
the one that we're going to focus on today, is
autistic people can't work and live independently. Many autistic people
(01:07):
do live independent lives and lives, and the statement that
they do not is going to be totally annihilated by
my guests. Today, there are services or children with autism,
but still not enough. On a national level, for adult
eighteen and over, available services are a little over twenty percent. However,
here in central Pennsylvania, Vistem Autism Services in Hershey provides
(01:30):
the remarkable services for adults in Cumberland, Dauphin, and Lebanon Counties.
In fact, it's about a thirty mile radius of Hershey
that they provide their services. In fact, their adult employment
services should be used as a model for others who
attempt the same with us. Today from Vista Autism Services
are enzi Uban Allen. She is the CEO. Mary Lou
(01:53):
Winners as the manager of Visa's Adult Employment Services team.
Before we go any further, guys, just jump in. Let's
talk about some of these things and just give me
a general idea about why it is not true autism
is a learning disability.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
How about that, Mary Lou?
Speaker 3 (02:09):
Is it so autism is considered a developmental disability. It's
a difference, and the difference would be that a learning
disability is trouble learning new information, whereas a developmental disability.
In this case, the characteristics are really the ability to
process and engage in social interactions.
Speaker 1 (02:31):
So you don't learn this, this is something in your brain.
You're born with it. Correct, Okay, that's interesting. People with
autism don't have emotion Well I would think that people
think that because a lot of times they're quiet because
of the social part of it.
Speaker 2 (02:47):
Right, Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 3 (02:49):
So we just talked about, you know, the processing and
engaging in social interactions. So rather than you know, assuming
that someone doesn't have emotional feelings, it's really understanding that
they just have a little bit more trouble kind of
uh explaining that or expressing what their feelings are.
Speaker 1 (03:08):
All autistic people have special abilities.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
We got there.
Speaker 1 (03:11):
I think people when that movie rain Man came out,
that was that was not something that was a gift
for people with autism, that one the other.
Speaker 2 (03:19):
It shouldn't have been that way because everybody pigeonhole.
Speaker 1 (03:22):
Yeah they pigeonhole. They think everybody's like that not true?
Is it true that every person has like some type
of special ability.
Speaker 3 (03:32):
So what you're talking about is court considered you know,
like a savant ability. So you know, everybody with autism
might not have thoset, you know, but I would say
that everybody with autism has you know, unique talents and skills,
and again, you know, sometimes it's difficult for these individuals
to express them or tell us what their talents are,
(03:53):
or even show us what their talents are. So I
think that's what we do really well here at best
Autisms is understanding all of the characteristics of autism and
really knowing how to not only teach individuals with autism,
but pull those skills out and showcase them, you know,
across all age groups and abilities and you know, ways
(04:19):
of communicating. We kind of pull those those talents and
skills out.
Speaker 1 (04:23):
Before we talk more about how the school started, the
services start, and everything. The German family, I want to
ask both, if you don't mind, it's not anything we've
known about this since the early nineteen hundreds, but why
all of a sudden over the last ten or fifteen
years are we hearing about it. And I'll be honest
with you, I had a researcher from the Gey Singer
(04:45):
telling me they're going to cut they're close to finding
out what causes it. I mean, you've heard how many
people ten fifteen years ago didn't get shots for their
kids because they were told the de vel autism which
was Bolognian. We don't really truly know where it comes.
Speaker 2 (05:02):
Exactly, right, Yeah, and there's many theories on that, whether
is it environmental, is it the age of parents when
they're conceiving the kinds of it's all kinds of stuff.
And I think nowadays because of research and just further
for the research and individuals looking in the field of
(05:24):
autism and testing and developmentally, you know, that's why we're
seeing more of it, because there is if you want
an individual to be assessed for special ed or whatnot, okay,
well we burd do a neuro test on the individual
and to see do they have autism or any other disability.
(05:47):
So I think more and more testing is being done.
So then hence you're seeing more individuals who are being
diagnosed and a more understanding. To get away from that
rain Man theory of how it's autism is a spectrum, right,
you know, right, it's a spectrum disorder and there's higher
functioning and there's lower functioning. It's all and all in between.
Speaker 1 (06:11):
Well, I remember from years ago you couldn't have a
child evaluated until they were eighteen months old.
Speaker 2 (06:18):
Is it still that way? We're even older? I think
and nowadays I think it's lower the threshold to the
evaluations that can happen because now there is the research
and information and experts who know how to test children developmentally.
Speaker 1 (06:37):
Okay, where they should be at a certain point in
their lives. But that's boloney too, because you know how
that is, you'll have kids. I know of this young
lady who didn't speak, she was four years old. They
diagnosed her with autism. She did all of a sudden,
she started talking. She just got her masters. And I mean,
you don't know how this, but those support services are
what's important and what goes along in Something I was
(07:00):
going to ask you about was the German family. Thank
God for people like that. Incredible talk to us about that.
Speaker 2 (07:05):
Incredible. So the Jarmans, Mike Michael Jarman and his wife
Deirdre Jarman had twenty years ago, twenty plus years ago,
had twin boys who were diagnosed with autism. Back then,
it was during the days when not a lot was
known about autism, and so he at the time, and
(07:27):
Mike Jarman was a lawyer at the time, he went
to Rutgers University and went and found clinicians to bring
to their home. So basically they created an autism program
for their twins. Wow in their house, so true mom
and pop operation. And they were using funds, their own
(07:48):
personal funds and quite a bit of it to pay
these clinicians who were you know, providing the autism services
for their sons. And many people would be knocking on
their door saying, oh, we hear you have this autism program,
and the Garmans were explaining that, no, we're just you know,
trying to help out our kids. They heard this more
(08:11):
and more more and more people who obviously many people
did not have the personal funds that the Germans had
to create exactly. So then what the Jarmans decided, We've
got to do something, and kudos there totally could have
walked away, It would have been easy, would have walked away.
And they found other friends who had small children with autism.
(08:34):
I think it was maybe four or six families that
got together and basically because they weren't able to get
the education that they felt, you know, their children needed
in the school system. As you Sylvia, you pointed out,
people no dis to the school system, none whatsoever at
that time, still not understanding what is needed. Autism is
(08:57):
still very new so they they had these clinicians, you know,
teach their kids, do therapies with their kids until they
got to kindergarten and then it's like, now what are
we gonna do? So then they said, okay, well we
bears create somewhat of an elementary sort of school, and
we're in different parts of central Pennsylvania, you know, in
(09:22):
in a business office area. And then eventually to two
thousand and eleven where the Vista School that you spoke
about in Hershey, it was in Springboard. Springboard is the
location and where then it was created this school from
(09:46):
K to twelve kind of thing. And again, these are
children who are have been identified as individuals who cannot
make it in the regular public school system. So they
come to us because of the behaviors that they have
and what they're going through. And we're in a school that,
(10:09):
as Mary lou said, we have the expertise to teach
and to learn what what is needed to bring out
those the strengths that are individuals.
Speaker 1 (10:25):
Like correct me, please if I'm wrong. There are a
lot of people who are in that spectrum who are brilliant,
there are people who are average, there are people just
like us, and that is a just like they say,
it has something to do with the brain. It's not
a choice. So what you guys do is you have
the capability to work with every level of these children
(10:48):
from the time they're a little on upright.
Speaker 2 (10:51):
And exactly on up. And so you're starting like we
have an early intervention program that starts with the kids
as you were talking about two, and I think we're
even starting at eighteen eighteen months and going right up
to adulthood. And again those early intervention the children who
are identified when their toddlers are younger. With early intervention,
(11:16):
you're going to have more success rate of success than
coming later on. So it's all about if you put
in a lot at the beginning, you're not going to
have to be investing so many more.
Speaker 1 (11:33):
You know, legislators say dollars, Yeah, later on, legislators tell
me about that. Have supportive? Have the legislature been.
Speaker 2 (11:42):
The legislation I know the governor just upped it. Yes,
the budget and the rates and the rates has been helpful,
has been helpful, and we are greatly very thankful for that.
We would still say, though there's more that you know
can be done, especially when we look at approved the
(12:05):
funds for the approved private schools, where when we're talking
about our school decade of twelve, the funding it's still
insufficient because that funding helps school districts to kind of maybe,
let's say, take the edge off of how much the
school district would be on for to educate an individual
(12:29):
who has autism, because it is costly, you know, the
ratio to.
Speaker 1 (12:33):
Staffs and where you are. But that's another thing I
wanted to ask you. At what point do you work
towards the point where all these children eventually go to
another school or do they stay at Vista till till
theyre eighteen years old?
Speaker 2 (12:48):
For the most part, they do stay at Vista. And
we will say also we do have another program called
the Cove program, which is a program in Carlisle School
District where we have Vista staff who are implanted in
the school in the school district, working side by side
(13:11):
with the other general ed educators. Where is where is
like the Capital Area Intermediate Union this part? How do
they with kids like that? That's something Mary Lou.
Speaker 3 (13:26):
Probably yes, So we're not necessarily connected to no intermediate units.
There are a few in the area.
Speaker 1 (13:33):
Is that the question I would imagine they get the
kids that need some support. Do they sometimes refer those
children to you?
Speaker 3 (13:40):
In some cases we do work together, yes.
Speaker 2 (13:44):
Yeah, because our students And that's the other thing, you know,
parents hear about Vista, I want in I want my
child to go to Vista, right, And we work very
closely with the school districts because the school districts need
to refer students to us. Mom and dad can't just hey,
I want my child to go here, because of course,
(14:06):
as we all know, the school district has budgets and
they so do you. Yeah, and some school districts, now
as we've been talking more knowledge about autism, there are
some schools who are saying, hey, we can do this.
We can provide those supports and resources and have at it.
And that's great if you can. It's important that it's
(14:28):
done properly and with the staff who has the expertise,
and we certainly have a track record of twenty years
plus right, having the staff and the modality of therapy
to support our students so that once they leave high
school and Mary Lou's going to talk about it, then
(14:50):
they'll go into adult services and what's needed there. But
it is an line of expertise, and I think has
happened in the last few years. There are now for
profit companies that are offering autism services and they're looking
(15:11):
at the bottom line making the profit. They might not
be doing it exactly in the exact way that's to
the advantage of what effective.
Speaker 1 (15:23):
Child Well, how do you determine that? How do you
find out if, like say, somebody comes in said, I
heard you this, blah blah blah, how do you find
out if they measure up to Vista.
Speaker 2 (15:33):
Well, and I don't want, you know, our competitors out
there to say, hey, Vista, Vista, I do we believe,
we believe we have a model that works and families. Yeah,
and it's data driven data research. It's not just we're
saying it like we're you know, we're documenting, we're calculating,
(15:57):
we can show the success and the accomplishments. Because it is.
It's data driven and that's the bottom line kind of thing.
I believe other programs, especially if we're looking at the
for profit, they're still I think trying to understand that.
(16:18):
I'll put it that way.
Speaker 1 (16:20):
They see it as a way to make it money,
like most things. And Mary got to talk to you
you have dealt with over three hundred kind of compliance. Okay, yeah, okay.
We were talking about evaluation when a child is very young.
As you said, Anzie, that that's the best way to
do want it to work out, okay, but they have
(16:40):
to be evaluated. How is that evaluation done when the
kids Well let's talk about switch s gears and go
from adults or from children to adults. So you have
a kid's eighteen years old, what do you look for?
How do you evaluate them to see if they're ready
to go out and get a job.
Speaker 3 (16:55):
Yeah, sure, a great question. I'm going to talk a
little bit more in general than just employment, but really
we work closely with school districts, with you know, uh
staff members at the Vista School wherever these students are
graduating from and sort of learn about, you know, what,
what is what are their hopes and dreams, what could
life look like for them? And that's typically a combination
(17:20):
of a lot of different services. So at Vista we
provide day services that's more like leisure activities, volunteer opportunities,
you know, go out in the community and just be
a part of the community. We have an in home
an intensive in home program where for individuals that have
(17:41):
you know, more intensive behaviors and need to be able
to you know, be in a safe environment, we have
staff that go into the home help them with you know,
skills of daily living leisure activities. They do also go
out in the community and engage in leisure activities and
things in the community. And then we have our employment program,
which I'm obviously a little bit biased that, yeah, and
(18:04):
then we also have a really wonderful service called behavior
support services, and uh those are trained clinicians in terms
of helping people, uh live their best life when it
comes to their behaviors. So if if somebody is really
engaging in some undesirable behaviors, we're gonna spend a lot
(18:25):
of time learning why and giving them replacement behaviors that
you know, sometimes if it's just I don't feel well
and I don't know how to tell you, you know,
those replacement behaviors of just you know, being able to
express how you're feeling. And those behavior support services can
overlap any of our other services.
Speaker 1 (18:42):
And you combine, like the adult service, employment services with
the residential you have all kinds of work things out right.
Speaker 3 (18:48):
Yes, absolutely so, Vista doesn't have. We don't have our
own residential program, but we work with lots and lots
of individuals that live in residential settings. And again it's
really that you know, culmination of all the services that
they need to live out their hopes and dreams. So
I might work a few days, engage in some leisure
activities in the community, and live at a residential home
(19:10):
all at one time. So going back to your question
about evaluations, it's really what are their hopes and dreams,
what are the services available to provide those services so
that they can engage in whatever they want to do
in life. And then, you know the most challenging question,
then what funding do they have available to pay for
(19:31):
those services? So we work really closely with you know,
staff members and families when students are in school and
coming up to graduation, but we also work really closely
with teams of individuals that have already been long graduated
and are just now realizing that they want to work.
Speaker 1 (19:49):
Okay, and typically are they minimum wage jobs or if
somebody wants to go to college, I mean, how do
you figure all this out?
Speaker 3 (19:59):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (20:00):
Question?
Speaker 3 (20:01):
So we get that question a lot from employers because,
as you know, when I tell you about our process.
We work really really closely with employers to help identify
good matches for the needs that they have, and they
always ask us how much should we pay them, And
the answer is as much as you would pay anyone
else to do the same work. So, you know, we've
(20:21):
got individuals working for minimum wage because they're doing a
minimum wage job, but we have individuals who are making
quite a bit more than that, you know. And it
also follows the market. You know, distribution warehouses are really
big right now and they're paying a lot, So the
individuals that we have in that industry are likely not
making minimum wage.
Speaker 1 (20:40):
Okay, So you say you have a kid who wants
to go to college and they have these this social issue,
how do you get how do you make sure they're
ready to go?
Speaker 3 (20:48):
Yeah, great question. So we don't provide those kinds of
services in order to you know, support people in college,
but there are programs that you know, provide you know,
if they need someone to take notes for them, or
if they need instructional materials to be modified, things like that.
It's not something we do right now, but it is available.
(21:10):
And again, it's really just about learning what are those
hopes and dreams, what help do they need and then
you know, finding the resources for that.
Speaker 2 (21:18):
And I'd like to please interrupt us to say, as
Mary Lou talks about our employment program, when you were
talking about minimum wage or how people are paid, it
has like an eighty five percent success rate of placement
in jobs that they're competitive, competitively employed and it's not
(21:39):
piecemeal work.
Speaker 1 (21:40):
It's not you know, we'll give you an example or
a success story, either of you or both of you.
Speaker 3 (21:46):
Sure, I would love to let me think of one.
There's so many. So my favorite story to share is
just an individual. He started out with us in the
Vesta School. One of the the reason he came for
his public school was because he was being sent home
every day and he you know, he was engaging in
some behaviors because he couldn't express his wants and needs.
(22:09):
So we got him at the Vista School. We started
listening to him in the way that he could communicate,
teaching him better ways of communicating. But one of the
behaviors that he continued to engage in, and this happened
at home with mom as well, was he really wanted
to organize everything. So you know, you walk around to
school and you're gonna find things out of place, and
(22:30):
those things bothered him quite a bit, and Mom would
always complain, oh my gosh, he moved something again, he
took something again. I can't find this. He didn't think
it belonged on the counter, and now it's gone. He
probably put it away somewhere. So we actually were working
with a local beverage distribution company and just trying to
(22:51):
learn what their unmet needs were.
Speaker 2 (22:54):
So got a.
Speaker 3 (22:57):
Tour the warehouse, saw a pile of product and asked
what it was, and they sort of described a situation
where they, you know, a palette or the plastic was
poked on the pallette and now all of a sudden
it's considered damaged and they can't do anything with it.
So it sits in the warehouse until it's about to
expire and they have to pull all their workers off
(23:18):
the floor to dump the product out because it's expired.
So they're just dumping dollar signs down the sink, right,
So they actually created a position that didn't exist before.
They hired this gentleman to come and take the palette apart,
put them back together so they weren't considered damaged any longer.
Sell the product help their bottom line, and he works
(23:41):
five days a week. Now, he's been there, Fir. I
think he's coming up on his eight years. And wow,
he's too tired when he gets home to move things
around at mom's house. So he's really it's really helped
mom out a little bit. But that's one of our
one of my favorite stories. But just to add to that,
you know, we're talking about individuals. He's got this amazing,
(24:02):
incredible skill and interest in organizing things like if I
had the money, would hire somebody to organize my house, right,
got tons of kids at home. But this skill would
be underutilized if he didn't have an agency that could
provide the services to help connect him to employment, because
he couldn't walk into a warehouse and say, hey, I've
(24:24):
got a skill for you. I want, you know, hire me.
And we did that for him. And I also say
that he's a he's a tall, strong man, and he
also loves to shoot hoops with his coworkers. And you know,
he's been really been integrated. He's been an employee of
the Month several times over the years. And yeah, he's
just he's bringing more than just the you know, the
(24:48):
bottom line to the company.
Speaker 2 (24:50):
Yeah, just the project. Yes, he works here and he's
part of our organization. And and kudos to Mary Lou
and her employment staff and career developers who go to
these employers to say, hey, talk to us, because many
of them will say, I can't even get the typical
(25:14):
staff person to work these jobs or to come in,
and you want me to work with someone who's got
what behaviors and what going on? Oh no, no, no,
there's no way. But Mary Lewin her staff when they
come in because they've been trained. They went to University
of Virginia, I believe is where we got because they're
the experts in doing this kind of training and developing
(25:37):
of staff to work with individuals to do job and
employment development. And they're able to go in to the
employer and sit down and say, as Mary Lou said,
well what's going on over there or what are your needs?
And here's how we can join the two with an
individual who, yeah, may have certain behaviors, but they've got
(25:59):
a skill set and be able to work, and we've
got the staff we'll be with you. And I think
what ends up happening is exactly like this, gentleman. The
teams and the co workers are like, oh, yeah that
you know. He works well with this, works well with that.
As we talked, we all have certain things that work
well with us. And that's just how it is. And
you know what, Vista, We're good. Thanks, thanks for the
(26:20):
training you've been in here. We're good. He's eight years later,
he's like anyone else. And at the end of the day,
when we're talking about legislators, this is what you want
to invest in because this is an individual who is
now giving back to his community. That's right, pay and
taxes or whatever. It's not looking for government handout or subsidy.
(26:43):
He is giving to the community. Well, ladies, we're gonna
wrap this up. And here I go again.
Speaker 1 (26:47):
I get some of these problems. I get so wrapped
up and I ask if you please come back next
week because we're not done talking with this.
Speaker 2 (26:53):
So I want to tell my listeners.
Speaker 1 (26:55):
Of course, catch inside on one of the ten Ihearts
stations this weekend if you can find it on your
favorite podcast app. With us today from Vista Autism Services
and hershey enzi obenelo Ceo and Mary lou Winners, manager
Vista's Adult Employment Team. We'll talk more with you about
this next week, You're gonna want to listen. I'm Sylvia
(27:16):
Moss's has been insight. Thanks so much for listening. See
you next week.
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I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com