August 4, 2026 • 8 mins
Anna Gillespie says council reform needs to occur, but not to the detriment of rural Otago.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
It's gone Anna Gillespie as president of Otargo Federated Farmers
and joins us this afternoon. The song is called Stuck
with You by Huey Lewis, and the news being stuck
with councils that you don't want to be stuck with
is something that the country is having to deal with
at the moment, as council mergers or all the buzz
were at ahead of the August ninth cut off dates.
(00:21):
So government basically the government gets an understanding of what
the regions want now and is going to explain this
from a targo perspective. I mean, there's a lot on
the table there and you get the feeling that the
rural urban divide is just going to be something that
comes into the mix. And understandably so as well. There's
so much of this that you need to cover off
and a good afternoon and thanks for joining us.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
Thanks Andy for having me screat be here.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
Yeah, look, straight off the bat, what's the feeling in
a targo around council amalgamations Because here in Southland it's
one of frustration and that's just across the board.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
Yeah, absolute frustration and probably a bit of a lack
of understanding as we were hitting with this. Yeah, it's
been a fairly challenging kind of a few months in
terms of even counselors trying to get the heat around
what we're trying to do and why things need to
change and an understanding of, you know, what functions each
kind of council has. So that's been kind of an
(01:16):
interesting process in itself.
Speaker 1 (01:18):
Do you actually see any good coming out of this process?
Speaker 2 (01:23):
Yeah, there has to be, and we have to just
keep that insight that there's there's got to be good
change and it just may take some time to get there.
At the end of the day. I mean, we're pushing
hard for rural representation and that's within whatever council structure
ends up being. If we end up with super councils,
(01:43):
then we've just got to keep pushing hard with that.
That we've got to have community boards around metropolitans and
things like that. But I mean that's at the moment,
we're still pushing very hard on a targo that we
get a decent split in terms of a provincial council
and then a particularly at Dunedin City that's got a
limited boundary around it and they just focus on the
(02:06):
metropolitan They focus on their bus and you know, the
town water, and there are other things that's important to
them and not so important to the rest of us.
I mean, I've never taken a bus in Dnedan in
armal life, so why would I care. You know what's
happening with the buses in Duneda and it's kind of
a been here fifty years. I'll probably never ride one
in the next fifty. So it's you know, like those
(02:29):
things are important to those communities, but there are different
things that are important to our provincial members and that's
what we've got to push really hard for.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
So worst case scenario, in your opinion, will be your
so called supercouncil just covering the whole of the province.
Speaker 2 (02:44):
Yeah, it would be because we really start to lose
the rural voice, and we know, no matter how you
break that down, we won't have the same representation we've
got at the moment rightly wrongly, Yeah, so that'll it
won't be a good come. You know, like it might
be economies of scale for a start, but you can
(03:05):
see that potential for just increasing staff turn out, you know,
increasing stuff numbers. What we've seen in the last ten years,
all the councils around us are doubling in size and
really are they doing more? Are we getting more bang
for our buck? I don't think so.
Speaker 1 (03:19):
A massive issue for farmers as well is the concern
around rates being based on property value and they certainly
stand to lose.
Speaker 2 (03:29):
Yeah, absolutely, and it's I mean yeah, Bagasha and certain
parts of a target and particularly around the DC Seed,
so the Duneedin City Council area, because that's you know,
the farmers around Dunedin. They're getting absolutely sammed with their rates,
be at the Tirie or Middle March or above. It's
massive rate bills compared to the rest of us.
Speaker 1 (03:50):
Now you've been quoted here as saying that Feed's view
is that a targo. In other parts of New Zealand,
you're opting for new, larger, unitary councils which should be
separated along metro lines compared to the provincial area they encompass.
So you're thinking cities around fifty thousand plus, like the
model mooted for in Vicargo, being separate from the rest
of Southland. Is that what you're thinking needs to go
(04:11):
on here? We need to have urban and rural kept separate.
Speaker 2 (04:16):
Yep, it is. I don't want to comment so much
on Southland because you're not representing that you've got it's
quite so much. But certainly in Otago that we want
Dunedin as a separate metro and we want the rest
of a targo and a provincial And I mean Waiteki
is obviously already voted to go north. And when you
start to talk about catchments in communities of interest, then
(04:37):
they kind of tend to go that way. So you know,
brightly or wrongly, maybe that's the way they will go
and will end up with part of the low the
Swahimo ward of Waiteki coming into a Central Provincial Council.
Speaker 1 (04:53):
Central Otaga District Council. They're voted to submit a proposal
for a three council combo including Kluther and Queenstown Lakes
District Council. Queenstown's the interesting one for me, given their
problems of infrastructure.
Speaker 2 (05:07):
Yeah, it is. And then they voted against that proposal
essentially and they voted for a different model. And with
Queenstown again it's going to have to be a community
board or something that oversees the Queens sound stuff and
their bus and their metropolitan issues, but they're not big
enough to be a metro of their own is the issue.
And I mean there's already a regional deal on the table,
(05:30):
and Nicola Willis is already alluded to that, you know,
that's looking lightly in that they'll get a different stream
of funding in there to fox some of those issues.
Because I mean, much as we say this, you know
how many thirty thousand people live in Queenstown or something,
It's like there's hundreds of thousands more there are on
even any given day coming in and out and using
facilities that those the base populations struggle to cope with.
(05:54):
So yeah, something's going to change in the funding model
for Queenstown.
Speaker 1 (05:58):
Do you think that the government's enough more than they
can chew this close to an election. No.
Speaker 2 (06:04):
I think it's probably just taken longer than what they
hoped for in terms of change. And I don't think
even if we get a change of government, I don't
think they'll change direction overly either. You'd hope they'll just
keep on this Bandwagan and get the change that's needed
in terms of the regional government.
Speaker 1 (06:23):
So how would the target region handle it if they
had to go and marriage all these councils. I mean
that comes at a cost here and Gore I talked
to me being bow about it yesterday. He seemed to
think that they could absorb it considering how high they
are in debt. What's the feeling in a targo? Can
you actually afford to do this?
Speaker 2 (06:41):
Yeah? Absolutely, we can't afford not to would be the
other side of it. And much as they kind of go, oh,
you know, it's going to be additional cost that they're
going to have to accept that, and those additional costs also,
there's going to be some redundancies, there's going to be
staff going, there's going to be savings in that because
we don't need thirty odd people in a running it
(07:01):
for the four year. Four different councils that you're talking
about amalgamating. Now we used to say five because way
tek you but you know, like it's some of the
overhead costs are excessive and you're going to have savings
the year. And yes, it's going to cost to amalgamate,
but we've got to doe it, and we've got to
do it at some point. We've got to be brave
about it and have the conversation because otherwise we're going
(07:23):
to be like this in another fifty years and we're
still going to be battling with you know, regional versus
district councils and you know, I mean standing on the
side of a river arguing between two councils. Who's fault
it is or who's you know, who's in charge or
whatever it's. It's ridiculous. We've got to stop these super
conversations going around around them and the duplication within councils
(07:43):
and just get on with a better system.
Speaker 1 (07:46):
Do you think realistically the chance that egos can be
left at the door though, and these voices can sit
down at the table and not things out.
Speaker 2 (07:55):
Definitely, And there's some really strong leadership and you're seeing
it with Cloth and CODC. I mean that's strong leadership
to actually the whole council's kind of you know, I
think the vote Cloth was, well, it wasn't really a vote.
They all agreed to go with the hit Start and CODC.
I think they were ten to one. It's like there
is clear leadership going we need to do this and
we need to just get on and do it and
(08:15):
work together. You know, some of the other councils are
going to battle a bit more with it, but that's yeah.
I think we've got enough strong leadership around Otargo to
get on and make it happen.
Speaker 1 (08:26):
Good on you, Anna, thanks your time this afternoon. No wroth. Cheers,
Anna Gillespie, President of Otago Federated Farmers, Eric Roy is
up next. You're listening to the Master
It's gone Anna Gillespie as president of Otargo Federated Farmers
and joins us this afternoon. The song is called Stuck
with You by Huey Lewis, and the news being stuck
with councils that you don't want to be stuck with
is something that the country is having to deal with
at the moment, as council mergers or all the buzz
were at ahead of the August ninth cut off dates.
(00:21):
So government basically the government gets an understanding of what
the regions want now and is going to explain this
from a targo perspective. I mean, there's a lot on
the table there and you get the feeling that the
rural urban divide is just going to be something that
comes into the mix. And understandably so as well. There's
so much of this that you need to cover off
and a good afternoon and thanks for joining us.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
Thanks Andy for having me screat be here.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
Yeah, look, straight off the bat, what's the feeling in
a targo around council amalgamations Because here in Southland it's
one of frustration and that's just across the board.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
Yeah, absolute frustration and probably a bit of a lack
of understanding as we were hitting with this. Yeah, it's
been a fairly challenging kind of a few months in
terms of even counselors trying to get the heat around
what we're trying to do and why things need to
change and an understanding of, you know, what functions each
kind of council has. So that's been kind of an
(01:16):
interesting process in itself.
Speaker 1 (01:18):
Do you actually see any good coming out of this process?
Speaker 2 (01:23):
Yeah, there has to be, and we have to just
keep that insight that there's there's got to be good
change and it just may take some time to get there.
At the end of the day. I mean, we're pushing
hard for rural representation and that's within whatever council structure
ends up being. If we end up with super councils,
(01:43):
then we've just got to keep pushing hard with that.
That we've got to have community boards around metropolitans and
things like that. But I mean that's at the moment,
we're still pushing very hard on a targo that we
get a decent split in terms of a provincial council
and then a particularly at Dunedin City that's got a
limited boundary around it and they just focus on the
(02:06):
metropolitan They focus on their bus and you know, the
town water, and there are other things that's important to
them and not so important to the rest of us.
I mean, I've never taken a bus in Dnedan in
armal life, so why would I care. You know what's
happening with the buses in Duneda and it's kind of
a been here fifty years. I'll probably never ride one
in the next fifty. So it's you know, like those
(02:29):
things are important to those communities, but there are different
things that are important to our provincial members and that's
what we've got to push really hard for.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
So worst case scenario, in your opinion, will be your
so called supercouncil just covering the whole of the province.
Speaker 2 (02:44):
Yeah, it would be because we really start to lose
the rural voice, and we know, no matter how you
break that down, we won't have the same representation we've
got at the moment rightly wrongly, Yeah, so that'll it
won't be a good come. You know, like it might
be economies of scale for a start, but you can
(03:05):
see that potential for just increasing staff turn out, you know,
increasing stuff numbers. What we've seen in the last ten years,
all the councils around us are doubling in size and
really are they doing more? Are we getting more bang
for our buck? I don't think so.
Speaker 1 (03:19):
A massive issue for farmers as well is the concern
around rates being based on property value and they certainly
stand to lose.
Speaker 2 (03:29):
Yeah, absolutely, and it's I mean yeah, Bagasha and certain
parts of a target and particularly around the DC Seed,
so the Duneedin City Council area, because that's you know,
the farmers around Dunedin. They're getting absolutely sammed with their rates,
be at the Tirie or Middle March or above. It's
massive rate bills compared to the rest of us.
Speaker 1 (03:50):
Now you've been quoted here as saying that Feed's view
is that a targo. In other parts of New Zealand,
you're opting for new, larger, unitary councils which should be
separated along metro lines compared to the provincial area they encompass.
So you're thinking cities around fifty thousand plus, like the
model mooted for in Vicargo, being separate from the rest
of Southland. Is that what you're thinking needs to go
(04:11):
on here? We need to have urban and rural kept separate.
Speaker 2 (04:16):
Yep, it is. I don't want to comment so much
on Southland because you're not representing that you've got it's
quite so much. But certainly in Otago that we want
Dunedin as a separate metro and we want the rest
of a targo and a provincial And I mean Waiteki
is obviously already voted to go north. And when you
start to talk about catchments in communities of interest, then
(04:37):
they kind of tend to go that way. So you know,
brightly or wrongly, maybe that's the way they will go
and will end up with part of the low the
Swahimo ward of Waiteki coming into a Central Provincial Council.
Speaker 1 (04:53):
Central Otaga District Council. They're voted to submit a proposal
for a three council combo including Kluther and Queenstown Lakes
District Council. Queenstown's the interesting one for me, given their
problems of infrastructure.
Speaker 2 (05:07):
Yeah, it is. And then they voted against that proposal
essentially and they voted for a different model. And with
Queenstown again it's going to have to be a community
board or something that oversees the Queens sound stuff and
their bus and their metropolitan issues, but they're not big
enough to be a metro of their own is the issue.
And I mean there's already a regional deal on the table,
(05:30):
and Nicola Willis is already alluded to that, you know,
that's looking lightly in that they'll get a different stream
of funding in there to fox some of those issues.
Because I mean, much as we say this, you know
how many thirty thousand people live in Queenstown or something,
It's like there's hundreds of thousands more there are on
even any given day coming in and out and using
facilities that those the base populations struggle to cope with.
(05:54):
So yeah, something's going to change in the funding model
for Queenstown.
Speaker 1 (05:58):
Do you think that the government's enough more than they
can chew this close to an election. No.
Speaker 2 (06:04):
I think it's probably just taken longer than what they
hoped for in terms of change. And I don't think
even if we get a change of government, I don't
think they'll change direction overly either. You'd hope they'll just
keep on this Bandwagan and get the change that's needed
in terms of the regional government.
Speaker 1 (06:23):
So how would the target region handle it if they
had to go and marriage all these councils. I mean
that comes at a cost here and Gore I talked
to me being bow about it yesterday. He seemed to
think that they could absorb it considering how high they
are in debt. What's the feeling in a targo? Can
you actually afford to do this?
Speaker 2 (06:41):
Yeah? Absolutely, we can't afford not to would be the
other side of it. And much as they kind of go, oh,
you know, it's going to be additional cost that they're
going to have to accept that, and those additional costs also,
there's going to be some redundancies, there's going to be
staff going, there's going to be savings in that because
we don't need thirty odd people in a running it
(07:01):
for the four year. Four different councils that you're talking
about amalgamating. Now we used to say five because way
tek you but you know, like it's some of the
overhead costs are excessive and you're going to have savings
the year. And yes, it's going to cost to amalgamate,
but we've got to doe it, and we've got to
do it at some point. We've got to be brave
about it and have the conversation because otherwise we're going
(07:23):
to be like this in another fifty years and we're
still going to be battling with you know, regional versus
district councils and you know, I mean standing on the
side of a river arguing between two councils. Who's fault
it is or who's you know, who's in charge or
whatever it's. It's ridiculous. We've got to stop these super
conversations going around around them and the duplication within councils
(07:43):
and just get on with a better system.
Speaker 1 (07:46):
Do you think realistically the chance that egos can be
left at the door though, and these voices can sit
down at the table and not things out.
Speaker 2 (07:55):
Definitely, And there's some really strong leadership and you're seeing
it with Cloth and CODC. I mean that's strong leadership
to actually the whole council's kind of you know, I
think the vote Cloth was, well, it wasn't really a vote.
They all agreed to go with the hit Start and CODC.
I think they were ten to one. It's like there
is clear leadership going we need to do this and
we need to just get on and do it and
(08:15):
work together. You know, some of the other councils are
going to battle a bit more with it, but that's yeah.
I think we've got enough strong leadership around Otargo to
get on and make it happen.
Speaker 1 (08:26):
Good on you, Anna, thanks your time this afternoon. No wroth. Cheers,
Anna Gillespie, President of Otago Federated Farmers, Eric Roy is
up next. You're listening to the Master
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