November 15, 2019 • 23 mins
Hoda Kobt’s former television show sidekick, Kathie Lee Gifford joins Cody Alan on this podcast. After losing her husband and mother, Kathie moved south to call Tennessee home. Listen to this Cody Cast podcast, to hear what this New York now Nashville transplant is up too. Spoiler alert…she’s writing songs and could be headed for a new kind of stage.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
This is Cody Owen's podcast. This is Cody Cast. Well,
cozy up with that microphone right there. We're so happy.
Tones Okay, I got him, Honey, I got my delph.
It's bring it. How is Nashville treating you? I love it?
I love it. It's I'm really really happy here. I
(00:20):
can imagine that you could have lived after ending your
time on the Today Show and moving from New York,
that you could have lived anywhere. Why ch use Nashville?
You know what, it was a natural thing. My my
husband had passed, my mother had passed, my dad passed
a long time ago. So all of a sudden, now
I realized, Oh my gosh, I'm a widow. I'm an orphan,
and I'm also an empty nester. My children in the
(00:42):
in the show business and they live in Los Angeles,
and um, I just live in the probably the most
beautiful house I've ever seen anywhere in the world. And
I was dying of loneliness, dying of loneliness in it.
It's just too many, too many memories too. And I
don't want to be a sad I'm not a sad person.
I'm a I'm a half full person out of half empty,
(01:02):
and I was. I was truly, truly battling depression about
it because I UM, I was lonely for the people
I love, and I live isolated. I live in the Connecticut,
not New York, and I don't want to live in
New York. And i've been um I knew I had
to make new memories of the old ones were going
to kill me. So I had been coming to Nashville
(01:23):
for two years on and off because I had written
a movie for me and um my great friend Craig Ferguson,
and so we shot that in Scotland and we're hopefully
to have it out pretty soon. But um, I was
co writing all the music with the one of the
best writers around here, Brett James. So I was doing
I was coming all the time and loving it, just
(01:46):
loving it, and I didn't want to get on a plane.
I discovered I didn't want to go home, and I
didn't want to go back to my empty house, and
I didn't want to go back to a job that
it was no longer joyful for me. I never wanted
to be a talk show host. I was grew up.
I've been to singers, professional singers since I was ten
years old and uh and an actress all my life
(02:07):
and I missed it. I've done a lot of it
through the years, but it just I've been waiting, waiting,
waiting to have the freedom in my life to to
follow my my initial dreams, which were to be to
do music and films, and so people used to say,
why can you leave your your your dream job I got.
I never said it was my dream job. Barbara Streisan
(02:29):
had my dream job. There were no female there were
no women co hosts television hosts at all back then,
so there was no there was no role model for it.
So I just fell into it. I literally fell into it.
Well as a broadcaster, you know, growing up, I watched
of course Oprah and you know Carson to some degree,
and I loved um Arsenio. But I'll tell you I
(02:53):
love Kathilee Gifford as much as any of those people.
Thank you, and read just obviously of course as beach Um. Yeah,
how's he doing. I'm going to see him next week.
I'm going home to I've got a movie coming out
um on the seventeenth for Hallmark, So I'm doing a
whole week of press and that's the first time I've
really been home uh in months. In speaking of Hallmark,
(03:14):
first of all, people love those movies. I mean, why
do they love those movies so much? My daughter has
done one. Um, I didn't ours as a brand new
it's a new franchise we've started with Hallmark called God Wink.
They're they're they're not They're based on true stories. You know,
in the in the Hebrew language, there is no such
word as as um. Coincidence doesn't exist. If you believe
(03:36):
in sovereign God, there is no there is no such
thing as coincidence. So my friend has about nine books
out called the God Winks Books, and they're all true
stories of basically when the divine intersects with the human,
basically God saying I got you. This did not happen
because it was random. I'm in this and and to
pay attention because God winks her everywhere. And being a
(03:58):
woman of faith, I thought that Hallmark was really missing
out on an incredible opportunity. They were afraid of offending
people with anything of faith. And I said, you're not.
There are millions of people that are dying to have
a faith component. You know, a lot of believers out there,
and um and and not in a religious way at all.
(04:18):
Just I think it was the first time God, the
word God, had ever even been used in the in
the title of a television show or movie. God. I mean,
since when did we not? I want him around all
the time. I don't know. I don't want to. I
don't want to. I don't want to get rid of him.
One of them good sides, let's keep him around. That
will be all you mentioned the seventeenth and also here
(04:40):
in Nashville on November seventeenth year with the Nashville Pops
doing a Thousand Voices Christmas at the Riemans, Have you
student that circle before? And saying no, I've never. I've
never performed there. I've been at performances, So now you
know I didn't go down the country. I did. He
saw honeys here in and and they were people asked me, well,
why don't why don't you, you know, do country music?
(05:03):
You know what, I think things have to be authentic
to you. I love country music and I'm writing country
music now. But at that time, in my young performing life,
I was into folk music and and uh strisand and Broadway,
and so you've got to be off cent and my
dad had been a jazz sax bonus player doing the
(05:23):
uh the big band era, So I had very eclectic tastes.
But um, but I didn't. I lived in Maryland. There
was no country music there, you know. So um, I've
been educated in it now and now I think it's
the best music in the world out there, no question.
And the writers who write country music here. You must
you mentioned Brett James earlier. You must have found those
(05:44):
bonds quickly here right, Well, yeah, I'm because of working
with Brett, I had sort of street cred. So I've
been writing with a whole lot of different people now
and I'm grateful to Brett for that, because people don't
know me as a musician or a writer, and I've
been doing it much longer than and I did anything else.
So why do you think you were so good at
being a talk show host? I'm just comfortable being who
(06:05):
I am. I never ever had a role model of
what a talk show host is supposed to be like,
so I didn't try to be that. I remember, um
just starting out and doing just showing up, and they
said that's all you have to do, just just respond,
keeps responding the way you do, say the funny things
you say. What, I didn't even know they were funny.
I don't know, it just it just I literally fell
(06:27):
into it. You remind me a little bit of Lauren,
who's standing right here and she's working that computer pipe pipe. Yeah,
because she came here to our group, our team at
CMT to do digital and social media and all this
stuff websites and so on, and she's brilliant at that.
But just hanging out with her, I was like realizing,
we're having great conversations, like we need to be on
(06:48):
the microphone with this, and so you're on air talent
now is truly good for you. But she's got that
same knack for like just knowing how to be funny
and bright and who she is. And I think, especially
in our world today, that authenticity is missing in a
lot of things, and people long for it. I mean,
(07:09):
you know, we're missing it. We're missing everybody's everybody's on
social media, everybody's you know, fixing themselves before they you know,
put a picture out there. Everybody's talking in sound bites,
and it's just that's not of the world I want
to live in. I want to be an authentic person.
Back to the show a thousands of voices of Christmas. Um,
so what's your favorite? Will be packed with Christmas songs obviously, UM,
you know what it's. It's going to be an eclectic
(07:31):
bit night of music, for sure. It's with that magnificent
Pops orchestra. I have worked with all of those musicians
now four times in doing these oratorios that I'm writing now.
I wrote one with Brett and sal Olivery. I wrote
one with the Lewis York It was incredible. Don't you
forget to remember me. They're amazing. Um and uh. Nicole c.
(07:53):
Mullen is going to be performing the first one that
we wrote, called The God Who Sees and um. And
then we're going to be premiering for the first time
one of the songs from The God of the Other
Side that I wrote with Lewis York. Now, those are
that people might not know that name. These are two
guys named Chuck Harmony and Claude Kelly who are probably
(08:14):
the most prolific um songwriter slash producers in all of
pop music. Looked them up. They've got a gazillion hits
in the pop world. They're my neighbors and my friend
Angie Clauson introduced me to them and we started writing
together and the next you know, we have a twenty
seven minute oratorio that doesn't happen in Greenwich, Connecticut, that
happens in Nashville, Tennessee. That's why I'm here, baby. What's
(08:38):
your favorite Christmas song? My favorite Christmas song is actually
when I wrote with Brett. It was one number one
on iTunes is Jesus is his name. We did it
at the White House and on a Hallmark special. My
favorite UM pop country song is um, I'll try to
get the dulcet cone tone going for you. I won't
be in the right key. Have yoursel a marbe a
(09:02):
little that one as a woman of faith and having
to also sort of have a foot into the pop
culture world when you did the talk shows? Was that
every difficult, like balancing the world versus I think when
you try to do that, you're going to stumble all
over the place. I just tried to be me and
I'm I'm as body a human being as you will meet.
But at the same time, UM, I will come out
(09:24):
and quote such scripture that five seconds later. I don't
believe in separating the secular from the spiritual. I believe
in the Scripture and enact seventeen that says in Him
we live and move and breathe and have our being.
You know, I am one woman who has a lot
of facets. You're one man who has a lot of facets.
But God did not make mistakes with us. This is
(09:45):
all who we are. We're sexual people. Well I can't
be anymore, but you know what I'm saying, Well I could.
But if hey, if you're looking for a nice lady
and you you love Jesus and you have your own teeth,
call me. You're not see anyone? Then no, no, not
right now? I know no, Okay, I would tell you
(10:08):
the truth. I'm not I see you, I see this guy.
But are we dating? I think, well, maybe after this
did go out on a couple of days with a
very nice guy, but it wasn't. It was never meant
to be anything else. Um, if you were making sort
of that Most Fascinating People show that Barbara Walters did
for you, I was on that once with Frank Who
(10:29):
would like to see now on that show? Who would
be your most fascinating people at this moment? Well, Kanye,
for sure, in light of what's going on with Kanye. Kanye,
I've met almost everybody and interviewed so many of them.
The only person I've never met that I like. Um,
I don't agree with them on a lot of things,
(10:50):
but um, I don't think i'll say that. Sorry, UM,
I'm learning it in my old age to actually edit
myself once all those I'm just wondering. Who I've known
I've known I call him Donald. I've known Donald since
I was I moved to New York in Nino. Donald
saved my life one time I had a I had
a crazed stalker and Donald saved my life. That's another story.
(11:12):
That's I'm going to save that for the book, Cody.
Don't you know, um? Because Frank had met Donald when
he was fourteen years old. Frank used to play golf
with his father Fred, and UM, so yeah, I got
I got a million Donald stories. Everybody that knows him
as a million of them. I never discussed politics, have
I think that's the other reason I've been in this
business as long as I have. I keep my political
(11:33):
views to myself. My friends know how I feel, my
family does. But you know, but don't you think you're
supposed we have to speak up. I mean when issues.
I have sued the State of New York twice UH
for political reasons and one both times UM, but they
were about the way the state was treating children. I
sued for them to unblind um UM HIV testing because
(11:55):
it was babies were dying needlessly because they were That's
a long story, but we won. And after we won that,
the birth rate, the death rate from AIDS went down
for the first time in New York and UH. And
because the birth rate went down, and so that started.
Then within one year the CDC UH did it all
(12:17):
over the country. So I mean, I get involved like
that when there are issues of life and death and
children involved always. Since you are in Nashville now and
you've met probably all the country music stars over the years,
who have you know? The newcomers and the ones who
have been around for a while. So who are your friends?
And who's in your phone? Who do you call? Who's
a pal that we might know? You know? I adore
(12:39):
I adore Kimberly Schlapman from from Little Big Town. I
love those that whole band. But Kimberly is is just
she's she's just precious. She's gotta she's gotta lie to
love Reva. I love Chris, uh Um, Martina. I mean,
I don't hang out with them. They're everybody is so so,
so so busy. But my favorite person on the planet
(13:03):
is Dolly Parton. Dolly talk about authenticity. I've known Dolly
since I did Honeys that many years ago. Dolly has
been even though we we don't hang out, but I
adore her. She is she has supported my writing career
like nobody. She very quietly. She will listen to things
(13:24):
and call me and send me notes and uh, she's
she's extraordinary. Barry Manilow, he too. I adore Berry. I'd
love to sit down with Berries. You know, I understand
Barry in a way that you know, a lot of
people just put him down because I just didn't know him,
didn't understand that this man is a genius, a genius
(13:46):
and uh, the same way they did it to Karen
Carpenter because she was geeky. Well that you know what
that killed her, being called that not understood. You. You
take a voice like Karen Carpenter and you put it
up against anybody to this day, and and her her
brother was a brilliant arranger. I don't like it when
we slap labels on people and we you know what,
(14:08):
especially in today's so can you imagine social media? If
if they had been around during social media, they wouldn't
have lasted five seconds. When you look back on the
talk shows, Um, who was your favorite interview? I know
it's hard to say, Like Craig Ferguson is one of
my other favorite people on the planet. I would love
to sit down and do you know two hours with
Craig I got. I spent six weeks with him in
(14:29):
Scotland and and had the time of my life. We
want to do four more movies based on these same characters.
We just had so much fun. I love Ricky Gervais
and it was funny because Craig said to me when
we said, Cathy, why do you love me? Ricky? I
mean we're not we're not good guys. Said, you're this
woman of faith, you love you love Jesus? Why do
(14:51):
you love Why do you love us? He said, I'm
an agnostic, he's an atheist four And I said, I'd
love you because God loves you first of all, and
I love you because you're fantastic people. I don't have
to have somebody a friend that totally agrees with me
on everything, and I said, he's got one foot in
the kingdom anyway. After hanging out with me for six
weeks and when I when I left, I gave him
(15:13):
a whole, whole huge set of all all the all
the lyrics, the writings of C. S. Lewis for his
fabulous um home that he has in Scotland. That it's
like born to the manner boy, it's beautiful for his library,
and he loves C. S. Lewis. C. S. Lewis is
one of the great apologists for Christianity in the last
(15:35):
couple of centuries. He's you know, um so he said.
He's said an interesting thing too that broke my heart. Though, Craig,
he goes, Kathy, you're the only person of faith that
has ever told us that they love us. I said,
I suggest you start meeting people of real faith, because
that people of real faith are all about love, where
all of Jesus was all about love. The only time
(15:56):
he was ever angry was that the religious people who
not taking care of God's people. I wrestled for a
long time with Faith and with God about being gay,
because I knew I was from a young age. And
now I've dealt with it and kind of gotten out
in the open, and it feels my life is much
better because I'm not hiding something. But secondly, well, you
(16:16):
live in a world now where you don't have to hide,
don't have to hide. How do you reconcile that? With God?
This is how I reconcile everything. I do not know
every human heart, I barely know my own. God calls me,
Jesus calls me to love my neighbor as I love
myself and love God uh with my whole being. That's
(16:38):
how I reconcile it. I remember when Um, Bruce Jenner
called me before he announced his new name and all
of that. Frank and I are god parents to Kendall
and Kylie. So Um he called me one day and
he said, Ketthy, do you do you hate me? I said, Bruce,
how can you ask me if I I love you?
(17:00):
He said, but what everything that I'm doing and going
through and everything like that? And he told me what
his name was going to be. And I said, let
you know what, let me just tell you something. That's
what I truly believe with all my heart. We can
hate our bodies or think that we're not supposed to
be in this body. But I said, the soul of Bruce,
(17:21):
no matter what he or she calls that person anymore,
is the eternal part of us. That's what lives forever,
and that's what God created us to be, is eternal beings.
Your body, whether you take it completely apart and you
don't recognize it in anymore, ashes to ashes, dust to dust,
that body is not gonna last for eternity. That body
(17:44):
is going. We're gonna have perfect bodies in in in glory.
I do believe that scripture says that, and I don't
know what that means. It just sounds better than the
thighs I've got. Now you know what I'm saying, And
they're not so bad. Come on, mom has been man doing?
But um yeah, I don't. It takes all my time
(18:04):
to love people. I've been in show business five years.
More than half of my friends are gay. I've never
had a problem being with gay people, loving gay people.
I write with gay people. There a lot of my
friends that I think are state are probably gay. I don't.
I'm not interested in what something somebody does in the
privacy of their own lives, unless it's harmful to them
(18:25):
or others. And that's when I think, you know, I
try to love people just like Jesus did. He's my
role model. I feel like you've got a lot to say. Yes,
you can put that into a music, you can put
it into uh movies, Uh you know, uh developed shows.
But why don't you do a podcast? I did a podcast?
(18:46):
Did I did a podcast for about a year and
a half in my own little studio, in my own
little house. And I thought I would love it, and
you didn't like it. I didn't like it at all. Uh.
First of all, you have guess, Yeah, I probably would
have liked it better if I didn't. You know what,
I've been a live performer, coding my entire life, theater, television,
(19:08):
whatever I did, I had to be there early and ready.
And and I've discovered that when you're doing a podcast
with people and you say it's going to be at
three after in the afternoon, I was sitting in this
little room in my waiting waiting for somebody to get
on the telephone with me. I didn't I live in Greenwich, Connecticut,
so I didn't have that many in house guests. UM,
(19:29):
and I just got tired of it. I said, I didn't.
I'm not. I don't want to spend my life waiting
for somebody to come on and talk to them. I
just I couldn't do it. Welcome to my world. Yeah,
I was on time. I was on early. They are
a little lax on on time in Nashville. I'm trying
to get used to Nashville. Yes, yes, we can't just
(19:49):
walk a few blocks away. And you know what else
I'm not used to. It's crazy people drop in? What
drop in? Oh? Yeah, we do? We drop in? Well, um,
I live behind the gate, thank god, because I don't
want them dropping Was it a drop in with the
(20:10):
guy from corn I saw on your Instagram? Popped up?
Oh Brian Head. Welch. I love him And that's the
last person I would expect to see in Cathy. The
Gifford's house is exactly That's That's what the Kingdom of
God looks like. You know, all of us so different.
He's going to be in one of my oratorios, being
one of the He's going to be play one of
the Disciples. I'm gonna have twelve people on a boat
(20:33):
in the Sea of Galilee like that. You're gonna say,
wait a minute, those and all these oratorios are all
stories from the Bible. But I'm nobody's dressed in Bible
garb because these stories are ripped from the headlines today. Everybody,
everybody's dressed like like normal people. And he's got the dreads,
and he's got the tattoos, and he's got one of
the most purest hearts of any human being I've ever met.
(20:56):
I adore him. Well, we can't wait to see you
November six, sub is the big show, Thousand Voices of Christmas. Yeah,
the gala is also still available. I think that's before
the Night before, and that's gonna have a lot of
great music as well. But that's a that's a more
get to know me kind of a night. And I'd
love to have be you on the TV show too.
I do so at some point you're like hot stuff.
(21:16):
I will no, I'm really not trust me. This is
a lot like you. I didn't expect any of this now.
I wanted to be a broadcast I knew I wanted
to be in radio. I thought it might be like
a meteorologist on TV or something. But to have to
have I mean, I'd never expected all of this, So
it's fun. It's really fun. Good enjoy your life. My gosh, yeah,
God bless you. Good to see you too. Don't ask
(21:38):
me back. I'll be back on bring We'll bring wine
next time. By the way, have you been to Arrington
Vineyards Lace? Yes, I have. It's a fun place to
go to. But I try to sneak my own wine,
he said, he gave me permission. Is there a flask
in your purse right now? But there is some in
the in the in the car, isn't there. Yes, you
know what. It's called gift wine, and it's it's one
(22:00):
all kinds of awards. My wine is called gift Wine
g I F F T after Gifford. It's all over
the place. It's from the fabulous vineyard in Monterey County.
We just won the Green Award as the cleanest vineyard
in all of California. So it's a I'm a serious
winemaker and they've all won double goals, as I said.
(22:21):
So yeah, come to my house hang out. You can
hang out with some heavy metal guys and drink my wine. Jesus,
he drink wine. All Jewish culture is there's a lot
of wine in Jewish culture. And uh, there's a lot
of wine and cultures all over the world, and uh
uh yeah, but there's a we have an alcohol problem
in this country. So I understand when people get upset
(22:41):
about it. But you know what, there's almost three hundred
mentions of wine in the in the Bible, and about
maybe a d don't get drunk, or no one got drunk,
or lot got drunk. Everybody got drunk. And then you
have the people say, what, Jesus didn't really drink wine
because because it was fermented, it was non fermented grape jewe.
They've never been to Israel. It's a desert. You don't
(23:01):
nothing is nothing. There's no refrigeration back then. And the
Bible wouldn't talk about getting drunk if you couldn't get
drunk from it. Come on, people, what is great Miranda
Lambert lyric which will you probably have heard? I think
it's heart like mine. Yes, Jesus he drank wine, so
I think we get along just fine. Yeah, yeah, I
like those rhymes. Thank you, Thank you, thanks for listening
(23:25):
to Cody Allen's podcast, This is Cody Cast.
This is Cody Owen's podcast. This is Cody Cast. Well,
cozy up with that microphone right there. We're so happy.
Tones Okay, I got him, Honey, I got my delph.
It's bring it. How is Nashville treating you? I love it?
I love it. It's I'm really really happy here. I
(00:20):
can imagine that you could have lived after ending your
time on the Today Show and moving from New York,
that you could have lived anywhere. Why ch use Nashville?
You know what, it was a natural thing. My my
husband had passed, my mother had passed, my dad passed
a long time ago. So all of a sudden, now
I realized, Oh my gosh, I'm a widow. I'm an orphan,
and I'm also an empty nester. My children in the
(00:42):
in the show business and they live in Los Angeles,
and um, I just live in the probably the most
beautiful house I've ever seen anywhere in the world. And
I was dying of loneliness, dying of loneliness in it.
It's just too many, too many memories too. And I
don't want to be a sad I'm not a sad person.
I'm a I'm a half full person out of half empty,
(01:02):
and I was. I was truly, truly battling depression about
it because I UM, I was lonely for the people
I love, and I live isolated. I live in the Connecticut,
not New York, and I don't want to live in
New York. And i've been um I knew I had
to make new memories of the old ones were going
to kill me. So I had been coming to Nashville
(01:23):
for two years on and off because I had written
a movie for me and um my great friend Craig Ferguson,
and so we shot that in Scotland and we're hopefully
to have it out pretty soon. But um, I was
co writing all the music with the one of the
best writers around here, Brett James. So I was doing
I was coming all the time and loving it, just
(01:46):
loving it, and I didn't want to get on a plane.
I discovered I didn't want to go home, and I
didn't want to go back to my empty house, and
I didn't want to go back to a job that
it was no longer joyful for me. I never wanted
to be a talk show host. I was grew up.
I've been to singers, professional singers since I was ten
years old and uh and an actress all my life
(02:07):
and I missed it. I've done a lot of it
through the years, but it just I've been waiting, waiting,
waiting to have the freedom in my life to to
follow my my initial dreams, which were to be to
do music and films, and so people used to say,
why can you leave your your your dream job I got.
I never said it was my dream job. Barbara Streisan
(02:29):
had my dream job. There were no female there were
no women co hosts television hosts at all back then,
so there was no there was no role model for it.
So I just fell into it. I literally fell into it.
Well as a broadcaster, you know, growing up, I watched
of course Oprah and you know Carson to some degree,
and I loved um Arsenio. But I'll tell you I
(02:53):
love Kathilee Gifford as much as any of those people.
Thank you, and read just obviously of course as beach Um. Yeah,
how's he doing. I'm going to see him next week.
I'm going home to I've got a movie coming out
um on the seventeenth for Hallmark, So I'm doing a
whole week of press and that's the first time I've
really been home uh in months. In speaking of Hallmark,
(03:14):
first of all, people love those movies. I mean, why
do they love those movies so much? My daughter has
done one. Um, I didn't ours as a brand new
it's a new franchise we've started with Hallmark called God Wink.
They're they're they're not They're based on true stories. You know,
in the in the Hebrew language, there is no such
word as as um. Coincidence doesn't exist. If you believe
(03:36):
in sovereign God, there is no there is no such
thing as coincidence. So my friend has about nine books
out called the God Winks Books, and they're all true
stories of basically when the divine intersects with the human,
basically God saying I got you. This did not happen
because it was random. I'm in this and and to
pay attention because God winks her everywhere. And being a
(03:58):
woman of faith, I thought that Hallmark was really missing
out on an incredible opportunity. They were afraid of offending
people with anything of faith. And I said, you're not.
There are millions of people that are dying to have
a faith component. You know, a lot of believers out there,
and um and and not in a religious way at all.
(04:18):
Just I think it was the first time God, the
word God, had ever even been used in the in
the title of a television show or movie. God. I mean,
since when did we not? I want him around all
the time. I don't know. I don't want to. I
don't want to. I don't want to get rid of him.
One of them good sides, let's keep him around. That
will be all you mentioned the seventeenth and also here
(04:40):
in Nashville on November seventeenth year with the Nashville Pops
doing a Thousand Voices Christmas at the Riemans, Have you
student that circle before? And saying no, I've never. I've
never performed there. I've been at performances, So now you
know I didn't go down the country. I did. He
saw honeys here in and and they were people asked me, well,
why don't why don't you, you know, do country music?
(05:03):
You know what, I think things have to be authentic
to you. I love country music and I'm writing country
music now. But at that time, in my young performing life,
I was into folk music and and uh strisand and Broadway,
and so you've got to be off cent and my
dad had been a jazz sax bonus player doing the
(05:23):
uh the big band era, So I had very eclectic tastes.
But um, but I didn't. I lived in Maryland. There
was no country music there, you know. So um, I've
been educated in it now and now I think it's
the best music in the world out there, no question.
And the writers who write country music here. You must
you mentioned Brett James earlier. You must have found those
(05:44):
bonds quickly here right, Well, yeah, I'm because of working
with Brett, I had sort of street cred. So I've
been writing with a whole lot of different people now
and I'm grateful to Brett for that, because people don't
know me as a musician or a writer, and I've
been doing it much longer than and I did anything else.
So why do you think you were so good at
being a talk show host? I'm just comfortable being who
(06:05):
I am. I never ever had a role model of
what a talk show host is supposed to be like,
so I didn't try to be that. I remember, um
just starting out and doing just showing up, and they
said that's all you have to do, just just respond,
keeps responding the way you do, say the funny things
you say. What, I didn't even know they were funny.
I don't know, it just it just I literally fell
(06:27):
into it. You remind me a little bit of Lauren,
who's standing right here and she's working that computer pipe pipe. Yeah,
because she came here to our group, our team at
CMT to do digital and social media and all this
stuff websites and so on, and she's brilliant at that.
But just hanging out with her, I was like realizing,
we're having great conversations, like we need to be on
(06:48):
the microphone with this, and so you're on air talent
now is truly good for you. But she's got that
same knack for like just knowing how to be funny
and bright and who she is. And I think, especially
in our world today, that authenticity is missing in a
lot of things, and people long for it. I mean,
(07:09):
you know, we're missing it. We're missing everybody's everybody's on
social media, everybody's you know, fixing themselves before they you know,
put a picture out there. Everybody's talking in sound bites,
and it's just that's not of the world I want
to live in. I want to be an authentic person.
Back to the show a thousands of voices of Christmas. Um,
so what's your favorite? Will be packed with Christmas songs obviously, UM,
you know what it's. It's going to be an eclectic
(07:31):
bit night of music, for sure. It's with that magnificent
Pops orchestra. I have worked with all of those musicians
now four times in doing these oratorios that I'm writing now.
I wrote one with Brett and sal Olivery. I wrote
one with the Lewis York It was incredible. Don't you
forget to remember me. They're amazing. Um and uh. Nicole c.
(07:53):
Mullen is going to be performing the first one that
we wrote, called The God Who Sees and um. And
then we're going to be premiering for the first time
one of the songs from The God of the Other
Side that I wrote with Lewis York. Now, those are
that people might not know that name. These are two
guys named Chuck Harmony and Claude Kelly who are probably
(08:14):
the most prolific um songwriter slash producers in all of
pop music. Looked them up. They've got a gazillion hits
in the pop world. They're my neighbors and my friend
Angie Clauson introduced me to them and we started writing
together and the next you know, we have a twenty
seven minute oratorio that doesn't happen in Greenwich, Connecticut, that
happens in Nashville, Tennessee. That's why I'm here, baby. What's
(08:38):
your favorite Christmas song? My favorite Christmas song is actually
when I wrote with Brett. It was one number one
on iTunes is Jesus is his name. We did it
at the White House and on a Hallmark special. My
favorite UM pop country song is um, I'll try to
get the dulcet cone tone going for you. I won't
be in the right key. Have yoursel a marbe a
(09:02):
little that one as a woman of faith and having
to also sort of have a foot into the pop
culture world when you did the talk shows? Was that
every difficult, like balancing the world versus I think when
you try to do that, you're going to stumble all
over the place. I just tried to be me and
I'm I'm as body a human being as you will meet.
But at the same time, UM, I will come out
(09:24):
and quote such scripture that five seconds later. I don't
believe in separating the secular from the spiritual. I believe
in the Scripture and enact seventeen that says in Him
we live and move and breathe and have our being.
You know, I am one woman who has a lot
of facets. You're one man who has a lot of facets.
But God did not make mistakes with us. This is
(09:45):
all who we are. We're sexual people. Well I can't
be anymore, but you know what I'm saying, Well I could.
But if hey, if you're looking for a nice lady
and you you love Jesus and you have your own teeth,
call me. You're not see anyone? Then no, no, not
right now? I know no, Okay, I would tell you
(10:08):
the truth. I'm not I see you, I see this guy.
But are we dating? I think, well, maybe after this
did go out on a couple of days with a
very nice guy, but it wasn't. It was never meant
to be anything else. Um, if you were making sort
of that Most Fascinating People show that Barbara Walters did
for you, I was on that once with Frank Who
(10:29):
would like to see now on that show? Who would
be your most fascinating people at this moment? Well, Kanye,
for sure, in light of what's going on with Kanye. Kanye,
I've met almost everybody and interviewed so many of them.
The only person I've never met that I like. Um,
I don't agree with them on a lot of things,
(10:50):
but um, I don't think i'll say that. Sorry, UM,
I'm learning it in my old age to actually edit
myself once all those I'm just wondering. Who I've known
I've known I call him Donald. I've known Donald since
I was I moved to New York in Nino. Donald
saved my life one time I had a I had
a crazed stalker and Donald saved my life. That's another story.
(11:12):
That's I'm going to save that for the book, Cody.
Don't you know, um? Because Frank had met Donald when
he was fourteen years old. Frank used to play golf
with his father Fred, and UM, so yeah, I got
I got a million Donald stories. Everybody that knows him
as a million of them. I never discussed politics, have
I think that's the other reason I've been in this
business as long as I have. I keep my political
(11:33):
views to myself. My friends know how I feel, my
family does. But you know, but don't you think you're
supposed we have to speak up. I mean when issues.
I have sued the State of New York twice UH
for political reasons and one both times UM, but they
were about the way the state was treating children. I
sued for them to unblind um UM HIV testing because
(11:55):
it was babies were dying needlessly because they were That's
a long story, but we won. And after we won that,
the birth rate, the death rate from AIDS went down
for the first time in New York and UH. And
because the birth rate went down, and so that started.
Then within one year the CDC UH did it all
(12:17):
over the country. So I mean, I get involved like
that when there are issues of life and death and
children involved always. Since you are in Nashville now and
you've met probably all the country music stars over the years,
who have you know? The newcomers and the ones who
have been around for a while. So who are your friends?
And who's in your phone? Who do you call? Who's
a pal that we might know? You know? I adore
(12:39):
I adore Kimberly Schlapman from from Little Big Town. I
love those that whole band. But Kimberly is is just
she's she's just precious. She's gotta she's gotta lie to
love Reva. I love Chris, uh Um, Martina. I mean,
I don't hang out with them. They're everybody is so so,
so so busy. But my favorite person on the planet
(13:03):
is Dolly Parton. Dolly talk about authenticity. I've known Dolly
since I did Honeys that many years ago. Dolly has
been even though we we don't hang out, but I
adore her. She is she has supported my writing career
like nobody. She very quietly. She will listen to things
(13:24):
and call me and send me notes and uh, she's
she's extraordinary. Barry Manilow, he too. I adore Berry. I'd
love to sit down with Berries. You know, I understand
Barry in a way that you know, a lot of
people just put him down because I just didn't know him,
didn't understand that this man is a genius, a genius
(13:46):
and uh, the same way they did it to Karen
Carpenter because she was geeky. Well that you know what
that killed her, being called that not understood. You. You
take a voice like Karen Carpenter and you put it
up against anybody to this day, and and her her
brother was a brilliant arranger. I don't like it when
we slap labels on people and we you know what,
(14:08):
especially in today's so can you imagine social media? If
if they had been around during social media, they wouldn't
have lasted five seconds. When you look back on the
talk shows, Um, who was your favorite interview? I know
it's hard to say, Like Craig Ferguson is one of
my other favorite people on the planet. I would love
to sit down and do you know two hours with
Craig I got. I spent six weeks with him in
(14:29):
Scotland and and had the time of my life. We
want to do four more movies based on these same characters.
We just had so much fun. I love Ricky Gervais
and it was funny because Craig said to me when
we said, Cathy, why do you love me? Ricky? I
mean we're not we're not good guys. Said, you're this
woman of faith, you love you love Jesus? Why do
(14:51):
you love Why do you love us? He said, I'm
an agnostic, he's an atheist four And I said, I'd
love you because God loves you first of all, and
I love you because you're fantastic people. I don't have
to have somebody a friend that totally agrees with me
on everything, and I said, he's got one foot in
the kingdom anyway. After hanging out with me for six
weeks and when I when I left, I gave him
(15:13):
a whole, whole huge set of all all the all
the lyrics, the writings of C. S. Lewis for his
fabulous um home that he has in Scotland. That it's
like born to the manner boy, it's beautiful for his library,
and he loves C. S. Lewis. C. S. Lewis is
one of the great apologists for Christianity in the last
(15:35):
couple of centuries. He's you know, um so he said.
He's said an interesting thing too that broke my heart. Though, Craig,
he goes, Kathy, you're the only person of faith that
has ever told us that they love us. I said,
I suggest you start meeting people of real faith, because
that people of real faith are all about love, where
all of Jesus was all about love. The only time
(15:56):
he was ever angry was that the religious people who
not taking care of God's people. I wrestled for a
long time with Faith and with God about being gay,
because I knew I was from a young age. And
now I've dealt with it and kind of gotten out
in the open, and it feels my life is much
better because I'm not hiding something. But secondly, well, you
(16:16):
live in a world now where you don't have to hide,
don't have to hide. How do you reconcile that? With God?
This is how I reconcile everything. I do not know
every human heart, I barely know my own. God calls me,
Jesus calls me to love my neighbor as I love
myself and love God uh with my whole being. That's
(16:38):
how I reconcile it. I remember when Um, Bruce Jenner
called me before he announced his new name and all
of that. Frank and I are god parents to Kendall
and Kylie. So Um he called me one day and
he said, Ketthy, do you do you hate me? I said, Bruce,
how can you ask me if I I love you?
(17:00):
He said, but what everything that I'm doing and going
through and everything like that? And he told me what
his name was going to be. And I said, let
you know what, let me just tell you something. That's
what I truly believe with all my heart. We can
hate our bodies or think that we're not supposed to
be in this body. But I said, the soul of Bruce,
(17:21):
no matter what he or she calls that person anymore,
is the eternal part of us. That's what lives forever,
and that's what God created us to be, is eternal beings.
Your body, whether you take it completely apart and you
don't recognize it in anymore, ashes to ashes, dust to dust,
that body is not gonna last for eternity. That body
(17:44):
is going. We're gonna have perfect bodies in in in glory.
I do believe that scripture says that, and I don't
know what that means. It just sounds better than the
thighs I've got. Now you know what I'm saying, And
they're not so bad. Come on, mom has been man doing?
But um yeah, I don't. It takes all my time
(18:04):
to love people. I've been in show business five years.
More than half of my friends are gay. I've never
had a problem being with gay people, loving gay people.
I write with gay people. There a lot of my
friends that I think are state are probably gay. I don't.
I'm not interested in what something somebody does in the
privacy of their own lives, unless it's harmful to them
(18:25):
or others. And that's when I think, you know, I
try to love people just like Jesus did. He's my
role model. I feel like you've got a lot to say. Yes,
you can put that into a music, you can put
it into uh movies, Uh you know, uh developed shows.
But why don't you do a podcast? I did a podcast?
(18:46):
Did I did a podcast for about a year and
a half in my own little studio, in my own
little house. And I thought I would love it, and
you didn't like it. I didn't like it at all. Uh.
First of all, you have guess, Yeah, I probably would
have liked it better if I didn't. You know what,
I've been a live performer, coding my entire life, theater, television,
(19:08):
whatever I did, I had to be there early and ready.
And and I've discovered that when you're doing a podcast
with people and you say it's going to be at
three after in the afternoon, I was sitting in this
little room in my waiting waiting for somebody to get
on the telephone with me. I didn't I live in Greenwich, Connecticut,
so I didn't have that many in house guests. UM,
(19:29):
and I just got tired of it. I said, I didn't.
I'm not. I don't want to spend my life waiting
for somebody to come on and talk to them. I
just I couldn't do it. Welcome to my world. Yeah,
I was on time. I was on early. They are
a little lax on on time in Nashville. I'm trying
to get used to Nashville. Yes, yes, we can't just
(19:49):
walk a few blocks away. And you know what else
I'm not used to. It's crazy people drop in? What
drop in? Oh? Yeah, we do? We drop in? Well, um,
I live behind the gate, thank god, because I don't
want them dropping Was it a drop in with the
(20:10):
guy from corn I saw on your Instagram? Popped up?
Oh Brian Head. Welch. I love him And that's the
last person I would expect to see in Cathy. The
Gifford's house is exactly That's That's what the Kingdom of
God looks like. You know, all of us so different.
He's going to be in one of my oratorios, being
one of the He's going to be play one of
the Disciples. I'm gonna have twelve people on a boat
(20:33):
in the Sea of Galilee like that. You're gonna say,
wait a minute, those and all these oratorios are all
stories from the Bible. But I'm nobody's dressed in Bible
garb because these stories are ripped from the headlines today. Everybody,
everybody's dressed like like normal people. And he's got the dreads,
and he's got the tattoos, and he's got one of
the most purest hearts of any human being I've ever met.
(20:56):
I adore him. Well, we can't wait to see you
November six, sub is the big show, Thousand Voices of Christmas. Yeah,
the gala is also still available. I think that's before
the Night before, and that's gonna have a lot of
great music as well. But that's a that's a more
get to know me kind of a night. And I'd
love to have be you on the TV show too.
I do so at some point you're like hot stuff.
(21:16):
I will no, I'm really not trust me. This is
a lot like you. I didn't expect any of this now.
I wanted to be a broadcast I knew I wanted
to be in radio. I thought it might be like
a meteorologist on TV or something. But to have to
have I mean, I'd never expected all of this, So
it's fun. It's really fun. Good enjoy your life. My gosh, yeah,
God bless you. Good to see you too. Don't ask
(21:38):
me back. I'll be back on bring We'll bring wine
next time. By the way, have you been to Arrington
Vineyards Lace? Yes, I have. It's a fun place to
go to. But I try to sneak my own wine,
he said, he gave me permission. Is there a flask
in your purse right now? But there is some in
the in the in the car, isn't there. Yes, you
know what. It's called gift wine, and it's it's one
(22:00):
all kinds of awards. My wine is called gift Wine
g I F F T after Gifford. It's all over
the place. It's from the fabulous vineyard in Monterey County.
We just won the Green Award as the cleanest vineyard
in all of California. So it's a I'm a serious
winemaker and they've all won double goals, as I said.
(22:21):
So yeah, come to my house hang out. You can
hang out with some heavy metal guys and drink my wine. Jesus,
he drink wine. All Jewish culture is there's a lot
of wine in Jewish culture. And uh, there's a lot
of wine and cultures all over the world, and uh
uh yeah, but there's a we have an alcohol problem
in this country. So I understand when people get upset
(22:41):
about it. But you know what, there's almost three hundred
mentions of wine in the in the Bible, and about
maybe a d don't get drunk, or no one got drunk,
or lot got drunk. Everybody got drunk. And then you
have the people say, what, Jesus didn't really drink wine
because because it was fermented, it was non fermented grape jewe.
They've never been to Israel. It's a desert. You don't
(23:01):
nothing is nothing. There's no refrigeration back then. And the
Bible wouldn't talk about getting drunk if you couldn't get
drunk from it. Come on, people, what is great Miranda
Lambert lyric which will you probably have heard? I think
it's heart like mine. Yes, Jesus he drank wine, so
I think we get along just fine. Yeah, yeah, I
like those rhymes. Thank you, Thank you, thanks for listening
(23:25):
to Cody Allen's podcast, This is Cody Cast.
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