January 1, 2025 • 45 mins
Best of 2024 - Recorded January 2024 - Jay Shetty Talks Healing, Purpose, Forgiveness, Grace. Listen For More!
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Wake that ass up in the morning. Breakfast Club Morning,
Everybody's DJ n V.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Charlamagne the Guy. We are the Breakfast Club. We got
a special guest.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
In the building, my guy.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
He's an author, New York Time best selling author. He's
an entrepreneur, he is a podcast host.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
And now he is a model as well. Ladies and gentlemen.
Speaker 3 (00:21):
Jay Sheddy, By the way, Jay Sheddy is more than
the podcast hosts. He has one of the top ten
biggest podcasts in the World's right, Okay, I think that's
a very important to.
Speaker 4 (00:31):
Note because everybody got a podcast. Okay.
Speaker 3 (00:34):
Jay said he has one of the top ten biggest
podcasts in the world. Is the number five, I think.
Speaker 5 (00:37):
I think so that's on Spotify. I think that's what
it came out as. But no, thank you for having me, guys.
I had a lot to be in here with you.
Speaker 4 (00:42):
Guys.
Speaker 5 (00:42):
I'm so grateful to be back to you. Congrats on
the new studio. And that's not new for you for
your viewers, it's new for me being in in with you.
But thank you, Thank you guys.
Speaker 3 (00:50):
You're one of the people always use as a model
man when people tell me, like, you know, how do
I get started in podcasting or broadcasting, always say you
got to be your true, authentic self and you got
to provide something that you know maybe missing. And you
came with healing, you know, conversations about mental health, love,
and you filled the very big void in the marketplace,
(01:12):
a void did didn't even think people knew it was missing.
Speaker 5 (01:14):
Wow, that means a lot coming from you. I think
whenever you're starting anything right, it's about finding the space
in the market and then figuring out what you just said,
that authentic part that you can match with that space.
And I think for me, I love all the podcasts
that exists in the world, and they serve so many
different purposes. There's so many that I listened to, But
(01:35):
for me, I was I remember I was at this
event and the event was called Building Meaningful Lives, and
Tom Brady was speaking at the event, and then they
were asking questions. And I don't know Tom Brady, and
you know, we don't know each other, we've never connected.
But I saw a lot of questions being asked to him,
and all the questions were about the rings and the
games and the sports, and I could tell that he
(01:56):
was trying to talk about meaningful things because the conference
was building meaningful. And again I don't know him, so
I've never checked this with him, but from my perspective,
I could. I felt my intuition suggested that he wanted
to go in a direction that he couldn't go in
because everyone just wanted him to talk about sports. And
I was like, Okay, I want to build the platform
where someone like him could go in the direction they
(02:16):
want to go in. That's like when you came on
the show and you need to come back, we need
to have you back on. You know, when you came on,
it was like, we could go in the direction that
you want to talk about that. Some people don't have
the platform to do that for, you know. So that's
where it came from.
Speaker 3 (02:30):
You know, we had a Kevin Gates up here. He's
a rapper and he has a song called I Thing.
It's called I Can Heal You, you know, and he's
talking about, you know the fact that he feels like
he can heal women.
Speaker 4 (02:41):
Right, but just in general, do you think you can
heal people?
Speaker 5 (02:45):
I can't heal people. I'm not that powerful. I don't
think I have the power or the capacity to heal people.
But I believe the universe does. I believe energy does.
I believe frequency does. And I think that all we're
trying to do is introduce people to all of these ideas, concepts, practices, habits,
(03:06):
mindsets that they can then implement. I think people taking
on that power is too much pressure. I think taking
on that pressure of I'm gonna heal you, I'm gonna
heal people. Wow, I think I would crumble if I
felt that way, I would I would not last two seconds.
Speaker 6 (03:21):
And so I have never felt that.
Speaker 5 (03:23):
And I've always felt that I've been a vessel for
my teachers and mentors and guides. I feel that I've
been so invested in a lot of people say to me, like, Jay,
you're so young, how did you learn this? And I'll say,
I just got lucky. I had great mentors, great teachers,
great guides, and I'm just trying to share what I've
learned through me. And yeah, I don't want I don't
want the pressure of trying to be a savior, messiah
(03:43):
or a leacher.
Speaker 2 (03:45):
You can heal people do your experience though, because people,
you know, I think a lot of times they feel
like they're alone. And if you explain your story and
tell them how you got through your tough times or
whatever that you've been through. It can, like you said,
give somebody a roadmap of.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
What they can do.
Speaker 2 (03:58):
Absolutely, you know, for every situation that you try might
not work for somebody, you know, but it'd give them
a guide to maybe something that can put them on
their healings.
Speaker 5 (04:06):
Absolutely. Absolutely, yeah, I agree with that. I agree with that,
but I feel like that is still so much on
that person. And I feel like that's what we've seen,
whether it's mental health, whether it's growth, whether it's personal development,
so much of the accountability and responsibility is on the
receiver of knowledge. My teacher would always give this beautiful example.
They'd say, because sometimes right I go to listen to
(04:28):
a talk, or you go listen to a podcast, and
the person who's teaching you is maybe not the best orator,
they're not the best communicator, they're not the person who's
coming at it with all the you know, gems and
everything else. And my teachers would say to me, if
you're sitting in a class like that, you may think
the speakers at a zero, but that means you need
to rise to a ten to extract greatness from them.
Speaker 6 (04:49):
Whereas if your.
Speaker 5 (04:50):
Speakers at a ten, you get to coast at a zero,
and you may extract nothing from them because they just
entertained your mind. And so I think as a listener,
as a practitioner, we've got a is our game to
extract greatness from who we're listening to and implement in
our lives.
Speaker 3 (05:04):
If that makes sense, does everybody no? I feel like
everybody deserves healing. But does everybody deserve healing?
Speaker 5 (05:16):
I would say that let's go around down this thought
experiment to answer that question. So I've been thinking a
lot about this. If we could simplify the purpose of
life to be to love and be loved, if we
could agree that we think that loving others and being
loved by others feels like a meaningful purpose in our lives.
Speaker 4 (05:38):
Right.
Speaker 5 (05:39):
What's really interesting about that is that because of how
we've been loved growing up, we chase to do things
in order to be loved. So we start thinking, well,
in order for me to be loved, I need to
build a big business. I need to look a certain way.
I need to have a certain amount of followers. I
need to build a podcast, whatever it may be. So
(05:59):
we start doing lots of stuff in order to be loved,
because we think to love and be loved we need
to do big things. Then what ends up happening is
we end up in a space where we realize that
doesn't lead to love. I'm not loved more because I
have more followers. I'm not loved more because I have
more money. I'm not loved more because I have more,
(06:19):
which then begs the question going to your earlier question.
Speaker 6 (06:23):
We need to heal that idea.
Speaker 5 (06:25):
So I think everyone deserves healing because everyone's been misled,
whether it's by the system, whether it's by society, whether
it's about conditioning. So if you look at the journey
as to why everyone deserves healing, it's because everyone started
from a purer place, where everyone started from a more
naive place but got led down a certain path that
then requires them to have healing. So I think everyone
(06:47):
deserves healing. What do you think, Sheleman?
Speaker 6 (06:50):
No, no, no, no thinking about it deeply I do.
Speaker 3 (06:53):
I just hear people say that, you know, and I
think what I what I would tell folks is you know,
that's like you said, that's really not a to you
to decide. You know, if a person, regardless of what
they've been through. If they decide to go on their
healing journey, that's between them and their creator, and that's
between them and their their trauma.
Speaker 4 (07:12):
Who am I to say that person doesn't deserve Yeah, yeah, I.
Speaker 3 (07:17):
Guess the other question too, would be does everybody deserve
forgiveness and grace?
Speaker 5 (07:21):
I mean, here's here how I like to look at it.
Let's let's pretend that we lived in a world. Actually,
we don't need to pretend that is the world. Let's
let's live in a world where there is no forgiveness
and grace. Lord have mercy, right exactly. Let's let's see
what what would that look like like. Let's do a
thought experiment. You have a planet, there's no forgiveness, there's
no grace. I would struggle to live in that world
(07:43):
because I know I need forgiveness and grace not only
from myself but from the people around me. If my
wife wasn't forgiving and getting give me grace, that would
be a really tough relationship. If my mom didn't forgive
me and give me grace, that would be a tough relationship.
If my boss, if you know, whatever else in my life,
I think we'd actually all be living with more anxiety,
more stress, and we'd internalize that lack of forgiveness and
(08:07):
projected back onto ourselves, and that would pervent you a cycle.
By the way, that's kind of where we're at right now.
And I think a lot of our lack of capacity
for forgiveness and grace for others actually comes because we
don't give ourselves the benefit of the doubt, right, like
you know, amazing things going to happen, whereby we literally
will you know, I think I'm sure you've heard this too,
(08:29):
where it's like I loved you until you did this,
I believed in you until you did this, And it's
almost like we don't give ourself a second chance. And
because we don't give ourselves a second chance, we don't
give others a second chance. And I believe that everyone
deserves forgiveness and grace if they are willing to choose
(08:50):
the path of reformation, if they're willing to go on
the path and do the work of saying I have
had some challenges, I've made some mistakes. I'm willing to grow.
That's but sometimes it's a chicken and egg situation because
sometimes for someone to have that reaction, they need to
feel that there is an opportunity for forgiveness and grace.
(09:10):
So often people are so scared that people won't forgive
them that they don't want to admit it. Right, let's
take the very basic example, like you know someone's let's
let's take something that I think, you know, someone's cheated
on their partner. Not not an ideal situation, not a
great thing. Do we just let that person get away
(09:31):
with it? Of course not. But partly that person may
be scared of sharing it because they're scared they won't
be forgiveness and grace that's true now, or scared to
lose or scared to lose now they've made a mistake
and they should be held accountable regardless because if they
were in a committed relationship. But it's this chicken and
egg situation of like what comes first? And I don't
(09:52):
know the answer to that because it requires so much
from the person who's been hurt, and it's sad because
you've already been hurt and now more is required of you.
And I think a lot of people feel that way,
that they're the one who's been high, but they've going
to be the bigger person.
Speaker 2 (10:04):
Yeah, I think a lot of times with forgiveness. Sometimes
it's why the person asks for forgiveness, so why the
person is sorry.
Speaker 3 (10:11):
Right.
Speaker 2 (10:11):
So, like you said in the cheating situation, right, it's
quick and easy for a person to say, okay, I'm
sorry because they got caught.
Speaker 4 (10:18):
You know.
Speaker 2 (10:18):
Same thing with somebody when they say something wild online. Right,
the first reason they want to apologize really is they
want things to get back to normal or are they
really sorry? Did they really understand what they did? It
hurts somebody? And I think that's the problem when it
comes to forgiving somebody. Right, it's easy to say I
forgive you. You slap me in my face, and I say, okay,
I forgive you, But no, I don't, not until we
(10:40):
have the conversation and why you slapped me in the face,
why you said what you said, how did you affect me,
and then we can get to that path. But I
think a lot of times it's easy for people to
say I'm sorry, I didn't mean to do it. I
went to rehabits over right, and the world is supposed
to open back up. But if you can't explain to
me why you did what you did and assure me why,
it can't happen again, I can ever forgive you people
(11:01):
be well, forgive you means this that and you other know.
I don't think about you, but that's that's my reason
of feeling that way.
Speaker 5 (11:07):
That's yeah, that's the best. I fully agree with everything
you just said. That's that's that's what's missing is you
just you said something so subtle and so passively. I
want to highlight for everyone because I'm like, that is
it's like we want to say sorry often because we
want things to go back to normal correct and that
that is the mistake, Like that isn't worthy of forgiveness,
and we need to go deeper than that.
Speaker 3 (11:29):
You just sat down with First Lady Michelle Obama. Conversation
was everywhere right and she expressed how terrified she was
about this election year.
Speaker 4 (11:39):
What was it like hearing that from her? And how
do you process that? Did that give you anxiety when
you hear it?
Speaker 5 (11:46):
Yeah, it's an interesting thought process because I can't vote
in this country. I moved here eight years ago. I
have a green card, but I don't you know, I
don't have voting rights, and I moved here the Trump
became president in twenty six and so I've had an
interesting education in the United States, and I haven't. You know,
(12:07):
I didn't grow up learning American history or American politics,
so I'm also very uneducated in that space. Specifically, I
think for me, I look at most things as things
I can and can't control. And when I think about
things that make me anxious on a global scale, I
(12:27):
often ask myself what is the root of that anxiety
in my community? So if I'm seeing whether it's ignorance,
whether it's a lack of understanding, whether it's a lack
of curiosity, openness, compassion on a global scale, I'm asking myself,
where does that exist within me and my friends and
my society, and how do I start impacting that? Because
(12:48):
that I can control. And so I've been practicing that
for a long time because I feel that there's a
lot of things that give me anxiety, Like there's a
lot of things that can stress me out. There's something
new in the news every day that can do that.
But for me, what's really interesting is saying, okay, where
is Like I read this beautiful quote from f Scott
Fitzgerald a few years back, and it's beautiful, and he
said that I don't have my phone other.
Speaker 6 (13:10):
I'd read it right, but type in type in.
Speaker 5 (13:18):
The type in two opposites and f Scott Fitzgerald orposing
idea correct, but look for the full quote because they
only quote half of it sometimes and it's so, and
read a longer version of that question.
Speaker 4 (13:30):
See the test of a first rate.
Speaker 3 (13:31):
Yes, bloody the whole too, opposing sides in mind at
the same time and still retain the ability to function.
One should, for example, be able to see that things
are hopeless yet be determined to make them otherwise.
Speaker 5 (13:43):
That I love that right, like to be able to
hold to this is I think the biggest challenge we're
facing in the human mind is that we're not able
in our micro world and in a macro world to
be able to hold two opposing ideas at the same
time still retain the ability to function.
Speaker 4 (14:03):
So, as f.
Speaker 5 (14:03):
Scott Fitzgerald said, I should be able to see that
everything seems hopeless, yet be determined to make them otherwise.
That to me is where I like to live and
where I like to function. Is that how can I
accept that things are beyond my control? I'm not powerful
enough yet control what I can try to do, And
so I kind of look at ignorance in my own
(14:23):
community and my own friends group, in our WhatsApp chats,
in our tech threads, like where is that ignorance? Where
is that you know? Where are the missing links? And
how can I start to impact and influence my friends
to be more open minded, to be more curious, to
be better learners. And myself, by the way too, to
question where I'm easy quick to shut people down, Like
(14:44):
I've noticed that so much in me recently, Like if
I'm judging someone, I've really been asking myself, can I
look for that quality in me? Because I really believe
that the reason I'm judging it and I'm so triggered
by it is because I know it's inside myself, and
my judgment is just a reflexion of me not introspecting enough.
So to me, I try and bring down global events
(15:05):
into the personal and intimate, because otherwise it's so chaotic
and so hard to deal with.
Speaker 2 (15:11):
I believe some people's judgment is a reflection of the masses, right,
And that's my biggest thing I have with social media,
And sometimes when people talk about their healing journey or
some of the things that they do, I think they
look for out actually without actually doing the necessary work right,
So somebody might see Charlemagne and he's evolved, and he'll
explain the ways that he evolved, and somebody might jump
(15:32):
on it because they've seen it work for Charlemagne, but
it won't work for them.
Speaker 1 (15:35):
Because it's not in their heart, you know.
Speaker 2 (15:36):
I mean I think a lot of times, with social
media and what you said about the masses, I think
people follow a fake way of doing it to pray
for healing instead of trying to find their own journey.
And I think that's the difficult part. And I try
to tell people and I think, you know, with some
of the things that you're doing, you trying to find
your own healing journey.
Speaker 1 (15:53):
Yes, you know.
Speaker 2 (15:54):
You give him example with George, Charlemagne gives an example
of his. I give an example of mine. But a
lot of times people will try to followed that and
it doesn't open up their own mind to some of
their other thoughts.
Speaker 5 (16:03):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (16:04):
Yeah, that's so powerful.
Speaker 5 (16:05):
And I think the beautiful thing about anyone who has
gone on a healing journey realizes how unique yet similar
it is. Like if we sat down and we talked
about healing journeys, all three of us, we'd find so
many similarities yet so many differences. And that's the beauty
of it that when you go down that path. And yeah,
I would encourage everyone to not try and imitate. It's
(16:27):
almost like, you know, a few years ago, people's morning
routines became really popular, and all of a sudden, everyone's
trying to do the Einstein morning routine or whatever it
may be. And it's like, you're not going to become
that person by doing their morning routine. That's a part
of who they are. But what you're saying is that
there's an essence, there's a heart there that you're totally
missing out on. So yeah, I fully agree you can't.
You can't imitate someone's morning routine and suddenly become them.
Speaker 3 (16:51):
I like what you said too, can you can you
really find truth in this world of extremes because it
feels like everybody got to pick a side. Yeah, And
like we talked about it before you came in, Like
I could sit down and have a conversation with somebody
and people will look at that as an endorsement. No,
we're just having a conversation because there's got to be
some nuance in all of this, right that I got
(17:11):
a spiritual you know, the leader, one of my spiritual
teachers of Lutha Yadas, she always says, she says, there's
no such thing as right and wrong in humans.
Speaker 4 (17:18):
Do you do you believe.
Speaker 5 (17:19):
That there's no such thing as right and wrong? I
mean you could see that from the I guess it
depends what level of I guess it depends on what
level of humanity you're talking about.
Speaker 4 (17:30):
Right, they're legal, there's right and wrong.
Speaker 5 (17:32):
I guess morally there's right and wrong, and then I
guess thought wise or perception wise. Then you get into
muddy a territory because then what is right and wrong?
Because everyone's looking at everything. If you just think about
the multiple lenses that we've had, it's like if you
imagine that every life experience you've had is a crack
(17:53):
in the mirror. Right the parents you had, the town
you grew up in, the friends you had growing up,
the school you went to, your first job, your first love,
your first heartbreak. Imagine all of those are cracks in
a mirror. Now every time you're looking in that mirror,
imagine how many different reflections and distorted reflections you're seeing.
(18:15):
We're basically dealing with that with eight billion people. So
the amount of distortion in perception, reflection, perspective is so
variegated that how can any one of us know what
the truth is or what right and wrong is? Because
it's there's the options are unlimited, like you would need
an algorithm, and even an algorithm couldn't compute the depths
(18:37):
of the trauma, the impact the experience like it would
require it would require a God's brain in order to
formulate and contextualize all of those experiences. So I do
think there was this I don't know where it's from,
but I remember seeing it in Cobra Kai, of all places.
But there was this great line that said, there's there's
always three sides to every story, yours mind and the truth.
(19:00):
But I think the challenge is that the truth part
is not We're not even subjective, it's objective. But I
don't even think what you just said rightly is in order.
Then if we're saying there's three sides to every story,
but we're only living on one side, the only way
to get to the middle ground. And by the way,
the middle ground has been a philosophical standpoint. The Buddho
(19:21):
talked about the middle path. We talk about living a
balanced life. We talk about finding the core, the heart,
the center. If you look at all philosophical, spiritual well
being traditions, it's always about the middle, the heart, the center,
the core. Yet the only way to get to the
middle is by looking at both extremes. You're not going
to get to the middle by being on any of
(19:42):
one side of any thought. And so I think, what
you just said, Charlamagne, and what you do here so
beautifully is I love. And I try and do this too,
to have conversations that people don't expect me to have
with people that people may be confused as to why
I'm sitting down with them, in order to understand the
cracks of the mirror. That's what I'm fascinated by. I'm
(20:02):
fascinated by the cracks on the mirror because how they
got to how they think is even more important to
me than how they think. Because if we understand how
someone got to how they think, we can help save
the future, because we can make sure that their experiences
are slightly more variegated, diverse, supported, in order to have
(20:22):
healthier ideas in the future.
Speaker 4 (20:24):
Do you do you feel like most people are just performing?
Speaker 5 (20:27):
What do you mean by that?
Speaker 3 (20:28):
Because when sometimes when you sit down with these people,
you realize like, oh, this is this is just an act,
like you know what I mean, You're just doing this
because of what can what can come come from it.
So it's like when I'm having a conversation with somebody,
I try to remove all of that and get to
what you just said, and you usually get to that
by seeing how a person got to where they are.
Speaker 4 (20:49):
And then when you that's when you realize like, oh, this.
Speaker 5 (20:51):
Isn't Yeah, I think it's hard right now, Like there's
this meme on social media that I love and it's
all text and it says society says, be yourself and
then society says, no, not like that, and it's brilliant, right,
And so what I've realized is society says, I want
(21:12):
to know what you feel, and then it goes but
if you let me tell you that again, society says,
I want to know what you feel. But then if
what you feel doesn't make me feel good, then I
don't know what you want to feel. And so I
think people have actually kind of regressed into performing because
(21:32):
they're so scared of being judged for every word they say.
And then there's the side of people performing because they
think that they have to abide by certain rules, or
they have to sit with a particular thought process, or
whatever it may be. But I think in our attempt
to be more authentic as a society, we've actually started
blocking authenticity because if your authenticity doesn't make me feel good,
(21:56):
then I'm rejecting it. And that doesn't actually make make sense,
but you know it doesn't. You can't if you say
something that I don't like, I can say I don't
like it, but I can't tell you that that's wrong.
Speaker 4 (22:07):
Yeah, don't say I'm real until I say something that
you don't agree with. Yeah, exactly, But it can't be
that way. I should still be real, Like, come on.
Speaker 1 (22:15):
But is it all an interpretation?
Speaker 4 (22:16):
Right?
Speaker 1 (22:17):
Like you've been married eight years.
Speaker 2 (22:19):
Sometimes when you get into an argument or you know,
a disagreement with your wife, it might not be right
or wrong.
Speaker 1 (22:26):
It might be how you interpret things right.
Speaker 2 (22:27):
So you know, if your wife says something, you'd be
like you had an attitude and it makes you upset,
But really she didn't have an attitude. So I think
a lot of what we see in this world is interpretation.
Speaker 6 (22:36):
Absolutely.
Speaker 5 (22:37):
I try and and That's why I think the self
interpretation point is so much more important. I think we
get so lost in social media. We've mentioned it here,
and by the way, obviously I love social media. Without it,
I wouldn't even have had a career. I wouldn't be
here today. So I'm very grateful to social media. But
the point is that I think we get so lost
in other people's marriages, other people's careers, other people's failures,
(22:58):
that we don't make the time to reflect on our own.
So when I find myself being agitated with my wife
or being irritated with my wife, I look back as
to why did I behave that way, And nineteen percent
of the time, it's because I have a certain fear.
I have a certain insecurity. Sometimes my fear is actually
a positive fear of Let's say my wife asks me
a really important question, but I'm about to walk into
(23:19):
this interview. My agitated, non mindful response is going to
be I've got time for this right now, talk to
you later, right, which is the worst thing to say.
But I've been there. I'm just gonna put my hand down.
I've done that right, Like I've said, Hey, i'n't got
time for this right now talk.
Speaker 1 (23:35):
I would never say that, boy, you got more. I
ain't got time for this.
Speaker 5 (23:40):
I said that in the past, right, I've said that before,
and I feel terrible for saying that now when I
look back at that, and I've reflected on that, and
my wife's very forgiving and kind, and so she tolerates
me deeply.
Speaker 6 (23:50):
And I appreciate her for that.
Speaker 5 (23:52):
But when I reflect on having made that mistake, the
real reason is twofold one is it's not that I
haven't got time for it. I actually really care about
and I want to give her a really good answer.
I just am scared that I won't be able to
do that in thirty seconds, and so now I'm just
trying to pass it off because I don't want to take.
Speaker 6 (24:08):
On the fear.
Speaker 5 (24:09):
So there's actually a well intentioned thing there. It's not
that I actually think I'm too busy. And then sometimes
I'm like, well, my life's more important. Like I remember
this time, my wife would come up to me and
say I've had a really bad day, and I'd say,
tell me about it. I've had a really bad week,
and I was using her pain.
Speaker 1 (24:26):
You're trumping her pain exactly.
Speaker 5 (24:28):
I was using her pain to validate my pain because
I haven't spent time validating my pain in private, because
I haven't taken that time to acknowledge and recognize that
I'm having a challenging week. I'm now using and taking
her moment of connecting with her partner to make it
about me. And so again, when I reflect on that,
why am I doing that? It's because I haven't taken
(24:49):
time for myself. And I think that's where I want
people to live more, because we could actually heal so
many of our daily irritations and agitations simply by going
god it. I'm scared, I'm being insecure and I'm not
validating my own pain.
Speaker 3 (25:04):
How many times do you? I mean, how often have
you broken your own eight rules of love?
Speaker 6 (25:08):
Oh? Every day?
Speaker 4 (25:10):
Every day, man, every day.
Speaker 5 (25:12):
I don't think it's you know, it goes back to
that how can I heal someone I'm still healing myself.
And it goes to the reality of and I think
we all know this at this table. Everything in life
is a process, right, Like even if you took something
really tangible, like we say this person is rich, we
talk about them as if they can never lose it,
and that will always be theirs. That's actually not true.
(25:35):
People could lose all their money. We talk about someone
being famous, you could lose that. So in the same
way healing progress development, you can lose it. And I
think we've got so lost in that destination addiction, the
belief that you get to a point from which there
is no return. And I think that destination addiction is
really misleading in the wellness space because we feel like, oh,
(25:59):
now I'm healed. And I think it comes from this
idea of if you think about it right, Social media
is full of before and off the pictures, this where
I used to be, look at where I am now, right,
And it's always like saying I used to be in
a bad place, now I'm in a great place. No process,
no process, and linear when the real life life is
this every day. Sure, it's just cyclical. And I think
we've made our minds feel that journey's are linear. It's
(26:24):
like A to B, like going from LA to New
York or New York to LA. It's linear. But we
know that life is so much more cyclical. And so yes,
I've broken the eight Rules of Love every day, every
week of my life.
Speaker 3 (26:34):
One of the things you said, man that I think
is so important that I want people to really get
from this if they don't get nothing else from this conversation.
Speaker 4 (26:41):
Is like, there's no manual for any of this.
Speaker 3 (26:45):
You're not going to be the perfect husband, You're not
going to be the perfect father. I spend so much
time simply apologizing to my wife and apologizing to my
kids because I don't ever want them to think that
I'm trying to come off with some perfect human who
never gets anything wrong right.
Speaker 4 (27:01):
And I think that is that's very important to do.
And just being present, like.
Speaker 3 (27:06):
When you're when you're when your wife calls you, your
child calls you, even if you in that moment you
weren't present.
Speaker 4 (27:11):
As soon as I'm done whatever I'm doing, I'm so
sorry that you know I had to do that, but
I had to go do X, Y and Z in
that moment. Yeah.
Speaker 5 (27:18):
Absolutely, And I think I think the thing about the
point you just made, and I hope this is what
someone takes away from this as well, is I think
a lot of us in our minds when we do introspect,
we're quite heavy and harsh on ourselves. I think a
lot of people are walking around with a internal in
a critical voice that is completely making them feel terrible.
(27:39):
And so when anyone says something externally, it's worse. And
I just want to remind people that you can't hate
yourself into change, Like you can't guilt yourself into growth.
You can't blame yourself into a breakthrough. When was the
last time you changed who you were because someone hated you?
Never when was the last time you poorted someone you
(28:01):
hate deeply? So if you're hating, blaming, guilty yourself, it
may get you started, but it won't get you there.
And so anyone who's giving themselves a hard time, I'm
not saying to give yourself an easy time, but that
inner grace that in a forgiveness is such an important
part of you actually becoming better. So you're not doing
it because you're trying to take it easy on yourself.
(28:21):
You're doing it because it's gonna let you get through
the hard times.
Speaker 2 (28:24):
The most important thing I think for a lot of
people is back to what you said with forgiveness and
grace right. A lot of things that we do is
learn behavior.
Speaker 6 (28:32):
Right.
Speaker 2 (28:32):
Why do people pop their children usually because they got
popped as a child, you know, why do people talk
the way that they talk, usually because their parents talk
to them, or their parents are the same thing, or
they do that. But a lot of times when you're
in the moment, you don't see that. Right when my
dad told me, don't go out, don't do this, don't
do that, my first reaction was like, I hate them.
Speaker 1 (28:50):
My other friends can do it and I can't.
Speaker 2 (28:52):
But now as a parent, it's the same thing. Now
I understand why he said what he said. But you
always pray that you get it before that family members
this earth, you know what I mean. And I thank
God every day that my dad is still here, that
I didn't leave being mad at him. And you know,
I try to explain more to my kids because I
never want them to feel that way, but I know
they must feel the same way when they be like
(29:13):
I can't go to my friend's house or sleep over.
Speaker 4 (29:14):
Why?
Speaker 2 (29:15):
And I know they might be mad because their friends
do it. But that grace and forgiveness. We have to
understand that a lot of the stuff that we do
is learned behavior, even if it's not right.
Speaker 1 (29:23):
We have to realize that a lot of the things
that we learned and we were taught were fucked up.
Speaker 5 (29:28):
Yeah, there's that famous quote you just reminded me of
that says, by the time you realize that your parents
are right, your kids are telling you that you're wrong.
And it's that awkward position that we end up in.
But you know what's really interesting about that. I was
talking to someone about this at dinner last night, and
there's this old story that I heard a while ago,
(29:48):
and it's always resonated with me, even with my own childhood,
not in particular, but in essence. So the story goes
that these two men were interviewed and one was an alcoholic,
the other one and never drunk alcohol, and they were brothers,
and they interviewed them and then they asked the one
who drank alcohol and was an alcoholic, he said, why
are you an alcoholic? He said, my dad was an alcoholic.
(30:10):
And then they asked the other brother, why don't you drink?
And he said, my dad was an alcoholic. And so
I think a lot of us got an education and
what not to do, but we ended up repeating it
instead of breaking the cycle. And I feel like in
my life I had to I got a great education
in a lot of my areas of life in what
not to do and who not to be, and I
took all those little notes down, and I think that's
(30:32):
what's improved my life. So I think if we're constantly
waiting for the perfect example and the perfect space and
the perfect surroundings and the perfect aren't and uncle and
the perfect parent, it's like we may be waiting forever
because no one's perfect. So we almost have to make
a list of what not to do, but what not
to do, but.
Speaker 4 (30:49):
Also how to.
Speaker 3 (30:50):
That's why that's why podcasts like On Purpose is so important.
That's why podcasts like you know, Debbie Brown deeply Well
is so important because we learn how to you know,
break break a lot cycle.
Speaker 5 (31:00):
Absolutely.
Speaker 4 (31:01):
Are you wearing gap right now?
Speaker 5 (31:02):
No?
Speaker 6 (31:03):
Not right now?
Speaker 4 (31:03):
Okay, I'm just happy because you saw that you saw
a gap.
Speaker 6 (31:08):
That's why.
Speaker 4 (31:08):
That's just thought you was handsome.
Speaker 5 (31:13):
I was like, all right, DJM, you know, you know,
I wasn't expecting that from you, But thank you, man.
Speaker 3 (31:20):
I appreciate you and your wife do the holiday holiday
gap campaign.
Speaker 5 (31:24):
Yeah, yeah, we we were just you know, when we
got asked to do that, it was like we couldn't
believe it.
Speaker 6 (31:29):
We're like, what is this?
Speaker 5 (31:30):
You know, like we grew up watching the Gap campaigns
like the holiday campaigns especially, and any I've said to
my wife, any time I get to do any work
with her is my favorite thing because I get to
hang with her all day. And so that shoot was fun.
They made it fun. The creative team was fantastic, Like
it was a good time. We walked out of there
having having had a great day. So it was a
lot of fun. And then it was it was surreal
(31:52):
because you know, yeah, definitely never been a model.
Speaker 3 (31:55):
So do you have a question yourself when you get
approached to do things like that, because you know, people think, for.
Speaker 4 (32:01):
Whatever, for whatever reason, what it is you do, Oh,
you shouldn't have a campaign to be a guru? You know?
Speaker 5 (32:09):
Do you ever question yourself about Yeah, absolutely, I've I've
had the challenges. I've had to sit with that question
so much. And here's what I've come out with. One
of the reasons I do it is because I don't want.
Speaker 4 (32:20):
To be the guru.
Speaker 5 (32:21):
I don't want to be that. I'm a normal guy
who likes nice things, who is married, who's happily married,
who who's living in the normal world, who has businesses
like everything. It's like, I just I want to be
that because I think that the you know, the putting
anyone up on a pedestal, that person will always let
you down because it's it's hard for anyone to live
(32:43):
up to that, and so I would rather take myself
off of it and normalize it and be good with that.
And at the same time, I think, I look at
it and I go, in my opinion, I'm hoping that
someone's going to see that and be reminded of wellness
and be reminded of well being from the perspective of like,
oh yeah, generally they do that thing. So I'm hoping
that it's actually helping us get the message out there more.
(33:05):
And maybe I'm wrong, but I also look at it
as things I enjoy doing and things I love doing
with my wife, and I live life in that way
and a lot of the opportunities come my way. One
of the things that I've really been working on, and
this is probably the most thoughtful answer I can give
to this, is I've realized that a lot of opportunities
I give today, a lot of opportunities I get today, they.
Speaker 6 (33:26):
Feel like a high five.
Speaker 5 (33:28):
To my sixteen year old self and my twelve year
old self, and even my five year old self, and
then there's the more evolved me of today. And so
I'm living these two lives, and I think we all
are living the life of what are inner child desired
and then are evolved today's self desires. And I've just
(33:49):
found that there are certain opportunities that fulfill it for
that inner child that I don't want to abandon, because
what I'm worried about is that if I abandon it,
there'll be some more biddenness, some more resentment that will develop,
that will grow in the future. And so I want
to make sure that I acknowledge the needs of that
in a child that maybe weren't met at that age
or that stage in my life. And so that's kind
(34:09):
of what I refer to a lot when I'm trying
to make these decisions.
Speaker 3 (34:12):
I don't have a problem with it, because you know,
we always say stop making stupid people famous, So so
why not make the small ones if the small ones
can get the light on them?
Speaker 4 (34:20):
Why not? Because when the amplifies, I appreciate that more
people you know, come in and pay attention.
Speaker 3 (34:24):
I want to ask you to do you get pushed
back from people who will watch you sit down with
a Michelle Obama or a Jada Pinket smith Man.
Speaker 4 (34:32):
Why didn't you challenge them on this? Why didn't you
challenge them on that?
Speaker 5 (34:35):
Yeah, I don't get pushed back for not challenging people
because I think the questions I ask are challenging in
a different way. But I think I'll get pushed back
because someone doesn't like that person. Yeah, but what I've
found every single time is that when someone actually listens
to the episode or watches it on YouTube, if you
look at that common section, it is spectacular, like when
(34:59):
someone's actually taking out time out of the day to
listen for an hour or watch for an hour, and
then you see the comment section, you'll see people having
complete I had people reaching out about both those episodes,
the President Biden interview as well that we did earlier
last year, and the comments of people who actually listened
to it. And by the way, a lot of people
were like, Hey, I don't agree with this person's politics.
(35:21):
I'm actually on completely on the other side. But I
just want you to know that listening to this interview
was so enlightening from a human perspective. Thank you for
putting it out there. And I respect that approach because
I think that's why I do the interview. I don't
do the interview for any other reason apart from us
looking at the broken mirror and looking back and saying, Okay,
where can I resonate with the humanity of this individual
(35:44):
or where can I relate to this person? So yeah,
I think that's generally the pushback. But the comment section.
I encourage you on those episodes to go look at
the YouTube comment section. It's phenomenal to read what people
are getting.
Speaker 3 (35:57):
Yeah, because I think your conversation with Jada pit and
gets Smith. The clips is what's set off the Jada
pink and hate tred not because of you.
Speaker 4 (36:05):
Yeah, you know what I mean.
Speaker 3 (36:06):
But if you didn't watch the whole conversation and context
and you just saw clips.
Speaker 4 (36:12):
Yeah, she got a tech Yeah Yeah.
Speaker 5 (36:14):
And Jada's a dear friend for me, So it's yeah,
it's it's a tough one because I think any clip
about anyone.
Speaker 6 (36:21):
I said, someone say this to me today.
Speaker 5 (36:23):
Yesterday they said to me Jay, they meant me for
the first time and they were like, Jay, you're so
much nicer in person. I didn't like you off a
few Instagram and I was like, fair enough, that's cool.
But it's it's so hard for me to be all
of myself in thirty seconds. And I'm trying my best.
You're trying your best. You'll try your best, but it's
hard for any of us.
Speaker 4 (36:42):
Like they did nothing like about you on Instagram. You're
with your wife. No, yeah, puppy's looking your face.
Speaker 5 (36:49):
No, in the sense of I think he was just
like you know, I feel like you feel a bit
like whatever it was, like whatever.
Speaker 6 (36:55):
I don't even know what it was.
Speaker 5 (36:56):
But I think all of us, if you judged any
of ourselves at thirty second real, oh, I'm sure all
of us would agree, it's not who we are, you know. So,
and that's why I've started I do stuff with my
wife because I feel I'm most myself when I'm with
my wife because naturally it's the person I spend the
most time with. And so, but even even with all
of us, like, I've got to meet you guys in
person a few times now. We were in Canned with
(37:16):
iHeart on, you know, for the festival last year together,
and I think when you've met people in person, that's
the only time you're going to feel like you've got
to know them. I don't think anyone under I feel
like if someone if someone okay, if someone follows me
on Instagram, they understand maybe ten percent of who I am.
Speaker 6 (37:33):
If they listen to my podcast.
Speaker 5 (37:34):
They probably understand seventy five percent of who I am
because they're really dialing into who I am. If they've
read my books and my podcast, they're probably like, at
that eighty nine percent. If they've seen me live, there
at that ninety five percent, and then when someone's met
me in person, it's one hundred percent. And so I
think it's all percentages. And I you know, I hope
that we all again going back to forgiveness and grace.
I hope that we can all give each other a
(37:55):
bit more benefit of the doubt because I think it
will go a long way for people.
Speaker 4 (37:58):
And you officiated been in j Lowe's wedding, Yeah.
Speaker 6 (38:02):
That was a year and a half ago.
Speaker 4 (38:03):
Were you to do that?
Speaker 6 (38:05):
I had to do the online kind of you know.
Speaker 4 (38:08):
Why they I mean, why did they?
Speaker 5 (38:09):
But I don't think you have to be in Georgia.
I don't think you need to be licensed, so I
don't know the rules of that. I can't remember why
did they pick you? Though? So i'd collaborated with Jen
for a while, like we've done a bunch of stuff together.
Okase she came on the show a few years ago,
we'd had a few great offline conversations. I went and
officiated weddings as part of the launch of her last
movie on her special and it was just, you know,
(38:34):
it just I was really grateful for the opportunity. I was,
you know, pinching myself as well. And you know, for me,
I love love, like I'm a massive lover of love.
And I'd sent her the book as well, and I
think that kind of made it happen to I'd sent
the book and when it was being written, and she
appreciated it and she wrote me a beautiful testimonial for it,
(38:54):
and that kind of led to the wedding as well.
Speaker 6 (38:57):
And it was like I felt like I.
Speaker 5 (39:00):
Was just trying to make sure I didn't cry, Like
I'm that kind of guy who like ugly cries during
a wedding and like gets really soppy, and like, you know,
she's walking down the aisle, bend's there, he's tearing up.
I'm like, don't cry, dude, you're going to ruin this.
Do not cry. And I just had to hold it together.
Just to get through because I was like, I'm about
the ball. So yeah, it was specially it's an amazing experience.
Speaker 4 (39:21):
I know you probably got a runch. I got like
one more question for you.
Speaker 3 (39:23):
You say, language has created the word loneliness. They expressed
the pain of being alone, and it has created the
word solitude, express the glory of being alone.
Speaker 4 (39:35):
Could you could expound on that?
Speaker 5 (39:36):
Yeah, it's a Paul Tillich quote. The writer Paul Tillich
said that, and to me, I extrapolated from his work
for my book because I was realizing that language and
the way we use words completely defines how we think
about things. So when you hear the word loneliness, you
think sadness, you think potentially depression, you think negativity. Of course,
(39:57):
solitude is spending time alone with yourself, but with strength,
with courage, as Paul Tillett says, glory. So what I've
realized is we've got to be so careful with the
language we use in our minds. Every single word is
a seed for either a weed or a flower, right,
and so every single word that you say is defining.
So if I keep saying I'm lonely, I'm lonely, I'm lonely,
(40:19):
that's going to impact how I feel. But if I
say I'm in solitude all of a sudden, there's a
strength that comes with that. And so I just want
to encourage people to recognize that being alone doesn't have
to be a weakness. It can be a time of
strength and self awareness and personal growth. But it is
about the language that we use with ourselves. And so
I would ask everyone to this one activity. Think about
(40:40):
the one word that comes to your mind the moment
you wake up or the moment you go to sleep.
Make that word a word that you want it to be.
Don't let the word you go to sleep with, and
don't let the word you wake up with be a
word that makes you feel negative, unhealthy, or weak. Because
those studies show we have sixty to eighty thousand thoughts
per day, and eighty percent of them are negative, and
(41:03):
eighty percent of them are repetitive, which means you're having
the same negative word or thought repeating. It's not like
we're having lots of different thoughts, it's the same thought. Now,
you can't control sixty to eighty thousand thoughts, but you
can control two thoughts of the day. So just master
the first thought of the day and the last thought
of the day, and make it a thought and a
word that you want it to be.
Speaker 4 (41:20):
I wonder when that study was done.
Speaker 3 (41:21):
I wonder was it before social media after because I
feel like with social media is probably trippled.
Speaker 5 (41:25):
At Yeah, I probably read it that. That's that probably
I've read in the last three to four years. So
I guess while social media is around. But yeah, I
mean now it could have totally tripled. But it's interesting
because it's the same thought often.
Speaker 4 (41:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (41:36):
Right, It's a lot of time we keep saying the
same thing. I'm so tired, I'm so tired that thought
could life last a year? Or like, oh god, I'm
so scared at work, I'm so anxious, that could last
a year?
Speaker 4 (41:45):
So h one more thing, Yeah, man, is there anything
Jay Shady hates?
Speaker 6 (41:50):
Ooh ooh, that is that's a great question. I need
to give a good answer for that.
Speaker 5 (41:55):
You think about that. By then, of the answer I
was going to give, I have to I can't. So
the answer is I don't because I think hate personally,
(42:19):
collectively individually doesn't lead to greatness. I've never seen hate
lead to greatness. I've never seen hate lead to purpose.
I've never seen hate lead to a positive outcome, and
so I think hating anything is setting yourself up to
never see the greatness to goodness in it, and so
I'd prefer not to hate anything.
Speaker 4 (42:39):
What about the Notebook.
Speaker 5 (42:43):
I don't hate the notebook, but I have heard I
have thoughts about the notebook Charlamayne, I don't hate the number.
I find it hilarious as to how many. And I was,
like I said, I'm a hopeless romantic. I've been like
that my whole life because I grew up watching Hollywood
movies thinking that that's how I was meant to fall
in love. I was that person who felt for that.
And now I've read about something that they call Disney
Princess syndrome, where people walk around like feeling like they're
(43:07):
going to be saved by their partner, like you're gonna
have a night in shining armor, Who's gonna come in
and rescue you? And I think there's Disney Prince syndrome
as well, where we want to go and save someone
and we want to be the be all and end
all of everything. So the Notebook just has some really
questionable lines where like Ryan Gosling's character says to Rachel
mcadam's character, he'll say things like, oh, you know, I
(43:29):
could be anything you want me to be. I'll be anything. Right,
we've heard that. But then the other thing is, she's
on a ferrist wheel. Is thatways called ferrist wheel? Right,
that's what you call it, ferrist wheel. I have to
check my British and American, but yeah, she's on the
Ferrist wheel. He's hanging off the Ferrist wheel. And he goes,
if you don't go on a date with me, I
will fall like I'll let go. That's really unhealthy.
Speaker 4 (43:51):
That is.
Speaker 6 (43:54):
Like saying to.
Speaker 5 (43:54):
Someone I am I'm going to commit if you don't
go out with me and those and we may thinks
a movie, it doesn't matter. I know people who've heard
that from people. I've had people who've stalk I know
people who've stalked people who've had people chase them down,
who've said things like that to people. So I didn't
kill myself, you leave me exactly. So I think we've
got to be careful about these ideas. If you're watching
(44:15):
his entertainment, it was really funny. I was talking to
someone the other day and they were like, they're like,
I didn't sleep so well, and I was like, what
did you watch last night? And they went an American nightmare?
Speaker 6 (44:21):
And I was like, yeah, obviously, what do you expect?
Speaker 5 (44:23):
So whenever anyone tells me they wake up with anxiety,
the first question I says, what did you watch last night?
Because that is going to tell me what was in
your brain? So yeah, I don't hate the number.
Speaker 4 (44:33):
You think it's a horror movie though basically.
Speaker 6 (44:36):
It will make your life into a horror movie for sure.
Speaker 1 (44:39):
Well, J Sheddy ladies and gentlemen, when can they follow you?
Speaker 4 (44:42):
Jay?
Speaker 5 (44:42):
Come and check out the podcast On Purpose. It's where
I'm pouring my heart and soul and you know, excited
to share so many more amazing, maybe thought provoking, maybe
even pushing you slightly conversations to come and join us
at On Purpose.
Speaker 3 (44:55):
And his latest book was Eight Rules of Love that
came out last year, how to Find It, Keep It,
and Let It Go.
Speaker 4 (45:00):
You got any a new book coming.
Speaker 5 (45:01):
Or no, no, no, this was just I was just
excited to be back with you and hanging and actually,
do you know what, sometimes I love these conversations because
I came here not knowing where it was going to
go and then you guys just guide it beautifully.
Speaker 6 (45:11):
So this was wonderful man, Thank you guys.
Speaker 1 (45:13):
Jay Shatty, It's the Breakfast Club. Good morning, wake that
ass up in the morning.
Speaker 4 (45:18):
The Breakfast Club
Wake that ass up in the morning. Breakfast Club Morning,
Everybody's DJ n V.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Charlamagne the Guy. We are the Breakfast Club. We got
a special guest.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
In the building, my guy.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
He's an author, New York Time best selling author. He's
an entrepreneur, he is a podcast host.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
And now he is a model as well. Ladies and gentlemen.
Speaker 3 (00:21):
Jay Sheddy, By the way, Jay Sheddy is more than
the podcast hosts. He has one of the top ten
biggest podcasts in the World's right, Okay, I think that's
a very important to.
Speaker 4 (00:31):
Note because everybody got a podcast. Okay.
Speaker 3 (00:34):
Jay said he has one of the top ten biggest
podcasts in the world. Is the number five, I think.
Speaker 5 (00:37):
I think so that's on Spotify. I think that's what
it came out as. But no, thank you for having me, guys.
I had a lot to be in here with you.
Speaker 4 (00:42):
Guys.
Speaker 5 (00:42):
I'm so grateful to be back to you. Congrats on
the new studio. And that's not new for you for
your viewers, it's new for me being in in with you.
But thank you, Thank you guys.
Speaker 3 (00:50):
You're one of the people always use as a model
man when people tell me, like, you know, how do
I get started in podcasting or broadcasting, always say you
got to be your true, authentic self and you got
to provide something that you know maybe missing. And you
came with healing, you know, conversations about mental health, love,
and you filled the very big void in the marketplace,
(01:12):
a void did didn't even think people knew it was missing.
Speaker 5 (01:14):
Wow, that means a lot coming from you. I think
whenever you're starting anything right, it's about finding the space
in the market and then figuring out what you just said,
that authentic part that you can match with that space.
And I think for me, I love all the podcasts
that exists in the world, and they serve so many
different purposes. There's so many that I listened to, But
(01:35):
for me, I was I remember I was at this
event and the event was called Building Meaningful Lives, and
Tom Brady was speaking at the event, and then they
were asking questions. And I don't know Tom Brady, and
you know, we don't know each other, we've never connected.
But I saw a lot of questions being asked to him,
and all the questions were about the rings and the
games and the sports, and I could tell that he
(01:56):
was trying to talk about meaningful things because the conference
was building meaningful. And again I don't know him, so
I've never checked this with him, but from my perspective,
I could. I felt my intuition suggested that he wanted
to go in a direction that he couldn't go in
because everyone just wanted him to talk about sports. And
I was like, Okay, I want to build the platform
where someone like him could go in the direction they
(02:16):
want to go in. That's like when you came on
the show and you need to come back, we need
to have you back on. You know, when you came on,
it was like, we could go in the direction that
you want to talk about that. Some people don't have
the platform to do that for, you know. So that's
where it came from.
Speaker 3 (02:30):
You know, we had a Kevin Gates up here. He's
a rapper and he has a song called I Thing.
It's called I Can Heal You, you know, and he's
talking about, you know the fact that he feels like
he can heal women.
Speaker 4 (02:41):
Right, but just in general, do you think you can
heal people?
Speaker 5 (02:45):
I can't heal people. I'm not that powerful. I don't
think I have the power or the capacity to heal people.
But I believe the universe does. I believe energy does.
I believe frequency does. And I think that all we're
trying to do is introduce people to all of these ideas, concepts, practices, habits,
(03:06):
mindsets that they can then implement. I think people taking
on that power is too much pressure. I think taking
on that pressure of I'm gonna heal you, I'm gonna
heal people. Wow, I think I would crumble if I
felt that way, I would I would not last two seconds.
Speaker 6 (03:21):
And so I have never felt that.
Speaker 5 (03:23):
And I've always felt that I've been a vessel for
my teachers and mentors and guides. I feel that I've
been so invested in a lot of people say to me, like, Jay,
you're so young, how did you learn this? And I'll say,
I just got lucky. I had great mentors, great teachers,
great guides, and I'm just trying to share what I've
learned through me. And yeah, I don't want I don't
want the pressure of trying to be a savior, messiah
(03:43):
or a leacher.
Speaker 2 (03:45):
You can heal people do your experience though, because people,
you know, I think a lot of times they feel
like they're alone. And if you explain your story and
tell them how you got through your tough times or
whatever that you've been through. It can, like you said,
give somebody a roadmap of.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
What they can do.
Speaker 2 (03:58):
Absolutely, you know, for every situation that you try might
not work for somebody, you know, but it'd give them
a guide to maybe something that can put them on
their healings.
Speaker 5 (04:06):
Absolutely. Absolutely, yeah, I agree with that. I agree with that,
but I feel like that is still so much on
that person. And I feel like that's what we've seen,
whether it's mental health, whether it's growth, whether it's personal development,
so much of the accountability and responsibility is on the
receiver of knowledge. My teacher would always give this beautiful example.
They'd say, because sometimes right I go to listen to
(04:28):
a talk, or you go listen to a podcast, and
the person who's teaching you is maybe not the best orator,
they're not the best communicator, they're not the person who's
coming at it with all the you know, gems and
everything else. And my teachers would say to me, if
you're sitting in a class like that, you may think
the speakers at a zero, but that means you need
to rise to a ten to extract greatness from them.
Speaker 6 (04:49):
Whereas if your.
Speaker 5 (04:50):
Speakers at a ten, you get to coast at a zero,
and you may extract nothing from them because they just
entertained your mind. And so I think as a listener,
as a practitioner, we've got a is our game to
extract greatness from who we're listening to and implement in
our lives.
Speaker 3 (05:04):
If that makes sense, does everybody no? I feel like
everybody deserves healing. But does everybody deserve healing?
Speaker 5 (05:16):
I would say that let's go around down this thought
experiment to answer that question. So I've been thinking a
lot about this. If we could simplify the purpose of
life to be to love and be loved, if we
could agree that we think that loving others and being
loved by others feels like a meaningful purpose in our lives.
Speaker 4 (05:38):
Right.
Speaker 5 (05:39):
What's really interesting about that is that because of how
we've been loved growing up, we chase to do things
in order to be loved. So we start thinking, well,
in order for me to be loved, I need to
build a big business. I need to look a certain way.
I need to have a certain amount of followers. I
need to build a podcast, whatever it may be. So
(05:59):
we start doing lots of stuff in order to be loved,
because we think to love and be loved we need
to do big things. Then what ends up happening is
we end up in a space where we realize that
doesn't lead to love. I'm not loved more because I
have more followers. I'm not loved more because I have
more money. I'm not loved more because I have more,
(06:19):
which then begs the question going to your earlier question.
Speaker 6 (06:23):
We need to heal that idea.
Speaker 5 (06:25):
So I think everyone deserves healing because everyone's been misled,
whether it's by the system, whether it's by society, whether
it's about conditioning. So if you look at the journey
as to why everyone deserves healing, it's because everyone started
from a purer place, where everyone started from a more
naive place but got led down a certain path that
then requires them to have healing. So I think everyone
(06:47):
deserves healing. What do you think, Sheleman?
Speaker 6 (06:50):
No, no, no, no thinking about it deeply I do.
Speaker 3 (06:53):
I just hear people say that, you know, and I
think what I what I would tell folks is you know,
that's like you said, that's really not a to you
to decide. You know, if a person, regardless of what
they've been through. If they decide to go on their
healing journey, that's between them and their creator, and that's
between them and their their trauma.
Speaker 4 (07:12):
Who am I to say that person doesn't deserve Yeah, yeah, I.
Speaker 3 (07:17):
Guess the other question too, would be does everybody deserve
forgiveness and grace?
Speaker 5 (07:21):
I mean, here's here how I like to look at it.
Let's let's pretend that we lived in a world. Actually,
we don't need to pretend that is the world. Let's
let's live in a world where there is no forgiveness
and grace. Lord have mercy, right exactly. Let's let's see
what what would that look like like. Let's do a
thought experiment. You have a planet, there's no forgiveness, there's
no grace. I would struggle to live in that world
(07:43):
because I know I need forgiveness and grace not only
from myself but from the people around me. If my
wife wasn't forgiving and getting give me grace, that would
be a really tough relationship. If my mom didn't forgive
me and give me grace, that would be a tough relationship.
If my boss, if you know, whatever else in my life,
I think we'd actually all be living with more anxiety,
more stress, and we'd internalize that lack of forgiveness and
(08:07):
projected back onto ourselves, and that would pervent you a cycle.
By the way, that's kind of where we're at right now.
And I think a lot of our lack of capacity
for forgiveness and grace for others actually comes because we
don't give ourselves the benefit of the doubt, right, like
you know, amazing things going to happen, whereby we literally
will you know, I think I'm sure you've heard this too,
(08:29):
where it's like I loved you until you did this,
I believed in you until you did this, And it's
almost like we don't give ourself a second chance. And
because we don't give ourselves a second chance, we don't
give others a second chance. And I believe that everyone
deserves forgiveness and grace if they are willing to choose
(08:50):
the path of reformation, if they're willing to go on
the path and do the work of saying I have
had some challenges, I've made some mistakes. I'm willing to grow.
That's but sometimes it's a chicken and egg situation because
sometimes for someone to have that reaction, they need to
feel that there is an opportunity for forgiveness and grace.
(09:10):
So often people are so scared that people won't forgive
them that they don't want to admit it. Right, let's
take the very basic example, like you know someone's let's
let's take something that I think, you know, someone's cheated
on their partner. Not not an ideal situation, not a
great thing. Do we just let that person get away
(09:31):
with it? Of course not. But partly that person may
be scared of sharing it because they're scared they won't
be forgiveness and grace that's true now, or scared to
lose or scared to lose now they've made a mistake
and they should be held accountable regardless because if they
were in a committed relationship. But it's this chicken and
egg situation of like what comes first? And I don't
(09:52):
know the answer to that because it requires so much
from the person who's been hurt, and it's sad because
you've already been hurt and now more is required of you.
And I think a lot of people feel that way,
that they're the one who's been high, but they've going
to be the bigger person.
Speaker 2 (10:04):
Yeah, I think a lot of times with forgiveness. Sometimes
it's why the person asks for forgiveness, so why the
person is sorry.
Speaker 3 (10:11):
Right.
Speaker 2 (10:11):
So, like you said in the cheating situation, right, it's
quick and easy for a person to say, okay, I'm
sorry because they got caught.
Speaker 4 (10:18):
You know.
Speaker 2 (10:18):
Same thing with somebody when they say something wild online. Right,
the first reason they want to apologize really is they
want things to get back to normal or are they
really sorry? Did they really understand what they did? It
hurts somebody? And I think that's the problem when it
comes to forgiving somebody. Right, it's easy to say I
forgive you. You slap me in my face, and I say, okay,
I forgive you, But no, I don't, not until we
(10:40):
have the conversation and why you slapped me in the face,
why you said what you said, how did you affect me,
and then we can get to that path. But I
think a lot of times it's easy for people to
say I'm sorry, I didn't mean to do it. I
went to rehabits over right, and the world is supposed
to open back up. But if you can't explain to
me why you did what you did and assure me why,
it can't happen again, I can ever forgive you people
(11:01):
be well, forgive you means this that and you other know.
I don't think about you, but that's that's my reason
of feeling that way.
Speaker 5 (11:07):
That's yeah, that's the best. I fully agree with everything
you just said. That's that's that's what's missing is you
just you said something so subtle and so passively. I
want to highlight for everyone because I'm like, that is
it's like we want to say sorry often because we
want things to go back to normal correct and that
that is the mistake, Like that isn't worthy of forgiveness,
and we need to go deeper than that.
Speaker 3 (11:29):
You just sat down with First Lady Michelle Obama. Conversation
was everywhere right and she expressed how terrified she was
about this election year.
Speaker 4 (11:39):
What was it like hearing that from her? And how
do you process that? Did that give you anxiety when
you hear it?
Speaker 5 (11:46):
Yeah, it's an interesting thought process because I can't vote
in this country. I moved here eight years ago. I
have a green card, but I don't you know, I
don't have voting rights, and I moved here the Trump
became president in twenty six and so I've had an
interesting education in the United States, and I haven't. You know,
(12:07):
I didn't grow up learning American history or American politics,
so I'm also very uneducated in that space. Specifically, I
think for me, I look at most things as things
I can and can't control. And when I think about
things that make me anxious on a global scale, I
(12:27):
often ask myself what is the root of that anxiety
in my community? So if I'm seeing whether it's ignorance,
whether it's a lack of understanding, whether it's a lack
of curiosity, openness, compassion on a global scale, I'm asking myself,
where does that exist within me and my friends and
my society, and how do I start impacting that? Because
(12:48):
that I can control. And so I've been practicing that
for a long time because I feel that there's a
lot of things that give me anxiety, Like there's a
lot of things that can stress me out. There's something
new in the news every day that can do that.
But for me, what's really interesting is saying, okay, where
is Like I read this beautiful quote from f Scott
Fitzgerald a few years back, and it's beautiful, and he
said that I don't have my phone other.
Speaker 6 (13:10):
I'd read it right, but type in type in.
Speaker 5 (13:18):
The type in two opposites and f Scott Fitzgerald orposing
idea correct, but look for the full quote because they
only quote half of it sometimes and it's so, and
read a longer version of that question.
Speaker 4 (13:30):
See the test of a first rate.
Speaker 3 (13:31):
Yes, bloody the whole too, opposing sides in mind at
the same time and still retain the ability to function.
One should, for example, be able to see that things
are hopeless yet be determined to make them otherwise.
Speaker 5 (13:43):
That I love that right, like to be able to
hold to this is I think the biggest challenge we're
facing in the human mind is that we're not able
in our micro world and in a macro world to
be able to hold two opposing ideas at the same
time still retain the ability to function.
Speaker 4 (14:03):
So, as f.
Speaker 5 (14:03):
Scott Fitzgerald said, I should be able to see that
everything seems hopeless, yet be determined to make them otherwise.
That to me is where I like to live and
where I like to function. Is that how can I
accept that things are beyond my control? I'm not powerful
enough yet control what I can try to do, And
so I kind of look at ignorance in my own
(14:23):
community and my own friends group, in our WhatsApp chats,
in our tech threads, like where is that ignorance? Where
is that you know? Where are the missing links? And
how can I start to impact and influence my friends
to be more open minded, to be more curious, to
be better learners. And myself, by the way too, to
question where I'm easy quick to shut people down, Like
(14:44):
I've noticed that so much in me recently, Like if
I'm judging someone, I've really been asking myself, can I
look for that quality in me? Because I really believe
that the reason I'm judging it and I'm so triggered
by it is because I know it's inside myself, and
my judgment is just a reflexion of me not introspecting enough.
So to me, I try and bring down global events
(15:05):
into the personal and intimate, because otherwise it's so chaotic
and so hard to deal with.
Speaker 2 (15:11):
I believe some people's judgment is a reflection of the masses, right,
And that's my biggest thing I have with social media,
And sometimes when people talk about their healing journey or
some of the things that they do, I think they
look for out actually without actually doing the necessary work right,
So somebody might see Charlemagne and he's evolved, and he'll
explain the ways that he evolved, and somebody might jump
(15:32):
on it because they've seen it work for Charlemagne, but
it won't work for them.
Speaker 1 (15:35):
Because it's not in their heart, you know.
Speaker 2 (15:36):
I mean I think a lot of times, with social
media and what you said about the masses, I think
people follow a fake way of doing it to pray
for healing instead of trying to find their own journey.
And I think that's the difficult part. And I try
to tell people and I think, you know, with some
of the things that you're doing, you trying to find
your own healing journey.
Speaker 1 (15:53):
Yes, you know.
Speaker 2 (15:54):
You give him example with George, Charlemagne gives an example
of his. I give an example of mine. But a
lot of times people will try to followed that and
it doesn't open up their own mind to some of
their other thoughts.
Speaker 5 (16:03):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (16:04):
Yeah, that's so powerful.
Speaker 5 (16:05):
And I think the beautiful thing about anyone who has
gone on a healing journey realizes how unique yet similar
it is. Like if we sat down and we talked
about healing journeys, all three of us, we'd find so
many similarities yet so many differences. And that's the beauty
of it that when you go down that path. And yeah,
I would encourage everyone to not try and imitate. It's
(16:27):
almost like, you know, a few years ago, people's morning
routines became really popular, and all of a sudden, everyone's
trying to do the Einstein morning routine or whatever it
may be. And it's like, you're not going to become
that person by doing their morning routine. That's a part
of who they are. But what you're saying is that
there's an essence, there's a heart there that you're totally
missing out on. So yeah, I fully agree you can't.
You can't imitate someone's morning routine and suddenly become them.
Speaker 3 (16:51):
I like what you said too, can you can you
really find truth in this world of extremes because it
feels like everybody got to pick a side. Yeah, And
like we talked about it before you came in, Like
I could sit down and have a conversation with somebody
and people will look at that as an endorsement. No,
we're just having a conversation because there's got to be
some nuance in all of this, right that I got
(17:11):
a spiritual you know, the leader, one of my spiritual
teachers of Lutha Yadas, she always says, she says, there's
no such thing as right and wrong in humans.
Speaker 4 (17:18):
Do you do you believe.
Speaker 5 (17:19):
That there's no such thing as right and wrong? I
mean you could see that from the I guess it
depends what level of I guess it depends on what
level of humanity you're talking about.
Speaker 4 (17:30):
Right, they're legal, there's right and wrong.
Speaker 5 (17:32):
I guess morally there's right and wrong, and then I
guess thought wise or perception wise. Then you get into
muddy a territory because then what is right and wrong?
Because everyone's looking at everything. If you just think about
the multiple lenses that we've had, it's like if you
imagine that every life experience you've had is a crack
(17:53):
in the mirror. Right the parents you had, the town
you grew up in, the friends you had growing up,
the school you went to, your first job, your first love,
your first heartbreak. Imagine all of those are cracks in
a mirror. Now every time you're looking in that mirror,
imagine how many different reflections and distorted reflections you're seeing.
(18:15):
We're basically dealing with that with eight billion people. So
the amount of distortion in perception, reflection, perspective is so
variegated that how can any one of us know what
the truth is or what right and wrong is? Because
it's there's the options are unlimited, like you would need
an algorithm, and even an algorithm couldn't compute the depths
(18:37):
of the trauma, the impact the experience like it would
require it would require a God's brain in order to
formulate and contextualize all of those experiences. So I do
think there was this I don't know where it's from,
but I remember seeing it in Cobra Kai, of all places.
But there was this great line that said, there's there's
always three sides to every story, yours mind and the truth.
(19:00):
But I think the challenge is that the truth part
is not We're not even subjective, it's objective. But I
don't even think what you just said rightly is in order.
Then if we're saying there's three sides to every story,
but we're only living on one side, the only way
to get to the middle ground. And by the way,
the middle ground has been a philosophical standpoint. The Buddho
(19:21):
talked about the middle path. We talk about living a
balanced life. We talk about finding the core, the heart,
the center. If you look at all philosophical, spiritual well
being traditions, it's always about the middle, the heart, the center,
the core. Yet the only way to get to the
middle is by looking at both extremes. You're not going
to get to the middle by being on any of
(19:42):
one side of any thought. And so I think, what
you just said, Charlamagne, and what you do here so
beautifully is I love. And I try and do this too,
to have conversations that people don't expect me to have
with people that people may be confused as to why
I'm sitting down with them, in order to understand the
cracks of the mirror. That's what I'm fascinated by. I'm
(20:02):
fascinated by the cracks on the mirror because how they
got to how they think is even more important to
me than how they think. Because if we understand how
someone got to how they think, we can help save
the future, because we can make sure that their experiences
are slightly more variegated, diverse, supported, in order to have
(20:22):
healthier ideas in the future.
Speaker 4 (20:24):
Do you do you feel like most people are just performing?
Speaker 5 (20:27):
What do you mean by that?
Speaker 3 (20:28):
Because when sometimes when you sit down with these people,
you realize like, oh, this is this is just an act,
like you know what I mean, You're just doing this
because of what can what can come come from it.
So it's like when I'm having a conversation with somebody,
I try to remove all of that and get to
what you just said, and you usually get to that
by seeing how a person got to where they are.
Speaker 4 (20:49):
And then when you that's when you realize like, oh, this.
Speaker 5 (20:51):
Isn't Yeah, I think it's hard right now, Like there's
this meme on social media that I love and it's
all text and it says society says, be yourself and
then society says, no, not like that, and it's brilliant, right,
And so what I've realized is society says, I want
(21:12):
to know what you feel, and then it goes but
if you let me tell you that again, society says,
I want to know what you feel. But then if
what you feel doesn't make me feel good, then I
don't know what you want to feel. And so I
think people have actually kind of regressed into performing because
(21:32):
they're so scared of being judged for every word they say.
And then there's the side of people performing because they
think that they have to abide by certain rules, or
they have to sit with a particular thought process, or
whatever it may be. But I think in our attempt
to be more authentic as a society, we've actually started
blocking authenticity because if your authenticity doesn't make me feel good,
(21:56):
then I'm rejecting it. And that doesn't actually make make sense,
but you know it doesn't. You can't if you say
something that I don't like, I can say I don't
like it, but I can't tell you that that's wrong.
Speaker 4 (22:07):
Yeah, don't say I'm real until I say something that
you don't agree with. Yeah, exactly, But it can't be
that way. I should still be real, Like, come on.
Speaker 1 (22:15):
But is it all an interpretation?
Speaker 4 (22:16):
Right?
Speaker 1 (22:17):
Like you've been married eight years.
Speaker 2 (22:19):
Sometimes when you get into an argument or you know,
a disagreement with your wife, it might not be right
or wrong.
Speaker 1 (22:26):
It might be how you interpret things right.
Speaker 2 (22:27):
So you know, if your wife says something, you'd be
like you had an attitude and it makes you upset,
But really she didn't have an attitude. So I think
a lot of what we see in this world is interpretation.
Speaker 6 (22:36):
Absolutely.
Speaker 5 (22:37):
I try and and That's why I think the self
interpretation point is so much more important. I think we
get so lost in social media. We've mentioned it here,
and by the way, obviously I love social media. Without it,
I wouldn't even have had a career. I wouldn't be
here today. So I'm very grateful to social media. But
the point is that I think we get so lost
in other people's marriages, other people's careers, other people's failures,
(22:58):
that we don't make the time to reflect on our own.
So when I find myself being agitated with my wife
or being irritated with my wife, I look back as
to why did I behave that way, And nineteen percent
of the time, it's because I have a certain fear.
I have a certain insecurity. Sometimes my fear is actually
a positive fear of Let's say my wife asks me
a really important question, but I'm about to walk into
(23:19):
this interview. My agitated, non mindful response is going to
be I've got time for this right now, talk to
you later, right, which is the worst thing to say.
But I've been there. I'm just gonna put my hand down.
I've done that right, Like I've said, Hey, i'n't got
time for this right now talk.
Speaker 1 (23:35):
I would never say that, boy, you got more. I
ain't got time for this.
Speaker 5 (23:40):
I said that in the past, right, I've said that before,
and I feel terrible for saying that now when I
look back at that, and I've reflected on that, and
my wife's very forgiving and kind, and so she tolerates
me deeply.
Speaker 6 (23:50):
And I appreciate her for that.
Speaker 5 (23:52):
But when I reflect on having made that mistake, the
real reason is twofold one is it's not that I
haven't got time for it. I actually really care about
and I want to give her a really good answer.
I just am scared that I won't be able to
do that in thirty seconds, and so now I'm just
trying to pass it off because I don't want to take.
Speaker 6 (24:08):
On the fear.
Speaker 5 (24:09):
So there's actually a well intentioned thing there. It's not
that I actually think I'm too busy. And then sometimes
I'm like, well, my life's more important. Like I remember
this time, my wife would come up to me and
say I've had a really bad day, and I'd say,
tell me about it. I've had a really bad week,
and I was using her pain.
Speaker 1 (24:26):
You're trumping her pain exactly.
Speaker 5 (24:28):
I was using her pain to validate my pain because
I haven't spent time validating my pain in private, because
I haven't taken that time to acknowledge and recognize that
I'm having a challenging week. I'm now using and taking
her moment of connecting with her partner to make it
about me. And so again, when I reflect on that,
why am I doing that? It's because I haven't taken
(24:49):
time for myself. And I think that's where I want
people to live more, because we could actually heal so
many of our daily irritations and agitations simply by going
god it. I'm scared, I'm being insecure and I'm not
validating my own pain.
Speaker 3 (25:04):
How many times do you? I mean, how often have
you broken your own eight rules of love?
Speaker 6 (25:08):
Oh? Every day?
Speaker 4 (25:10):
Every day, man, every day.
Speaker 5 (25:12):
I don't think it's you know, it goes back to
that how can I heal someone I'm still healing myself.
And it goes to the reality of and I think
we all know this at this table. Everything in life
is a process, right, Like even if you took something
really tangible, like we say this person is rich, we
talk about them as if they can never lose it,
and that will always be theirs. That's actually not true.
(25:35):
People could lose all their money. We talk about someone
being famous, you could lose that. So in the same
way healing progress development, you can lose it. And I
think we've got so lost in that destination addiction, the
belief that you get to a point from which there
is no return. And I think that destination addiction is
really misleading in the wellness space because we feel like, oh,
(25:59):
now I'm healed. And I think it comes from this
idea of if you think about it right, Social media
is full of before and off the pictures, this where
I used to be, look at where I am now, right,
And it's always like saying I used to be in
a bad place, now I'm in a great place. No process,
no process, and linear when the real life life is
this every day. Sure, it's just cyclical. And I think
we've made our minds feel that journey's are linear. It's
(26:24):
like A to B, like going from LA to New
York or New York to LA. It's linear. But we
know that life is so much more cyclical. And so yes,
I've broken the eight Rules of Love every day, every
week of my life.
Speaker 3 (26:34):
One of the things you said, man that I think
is so important that I want people to really get
from this if they don't get nothing else from this conversation.
Speaker 4 (26:41):
Is like, there's no manual for any of this.
Speaker 3 (26:45):
You're not going to be the perfect husband, You're not
going to be the perfect father. I spend so much
time simply apologizing to my wife and apologizing to my
kids because I don't ever want them to think that
I'm trying to come off with some perfect human who
never gets anything wrong right.
Speaker 4 (27:01):
And I think that is that's very important to do.
And just being present, like.
Speaker 3 (27:06):
When you're when you're when your wife calls you, your
child calls you, even if you in that moment you
weren't present.
Speaker 4 (27:11):
As soon as I'm done whatever I'm doing, I'm so
sorry that you know I had to do that, but
I had to go do X, Y and Z in
that moment. Yeah.
Speaker 5 (27:18):
Absolutely, And I think I think the thing about the
point you just made, and I hope this is what
someone takes away from this as well, is I think
a lot of us in our minds when we do introspect,
we're quite heavy and harsh on ourselves. I think a
lot of people are walking around with a internal in
a critical voice that is completely making them feel terrible.
(27:39):
And so when anyone says something externally, it's worse. And
I just want to remind people that you can't hate
yourself into change, Like you can't guilt yourself into growth.
You can't blame yourself into a breakthrough. When was the
last time you changed who you were because someone hated you?
Never when was the last time you poorted someone you
(28:01):
hate deeply? So if you're hating, blaming, guilty yourself, it
may get you started, but it won't get you there.
And so anyone who's giving themselves a hard time, I'm
not saying to give yourself an easy time, but that
inner grace that in a forgiveness is such an important
part of you actually becoming better. So you're not doing
it because you're trying to take it easy on yourself.
(28:21):
You're doing it because it's gonna let you get through
the hard times.
Speaker 2 (28:24):
The most important thing I think for a lot of
people is back to what you said with forgiveness and
grace right. A lot of things that we do is
learn behavior.
Speaker 6 (28:32):
Right.
Speaker 2 (28:32):
Why do people pop their children usually because they got
popped as a child, you know, why do people talk
the way that they talk, usually because their parents talk
to them, or their parents are the same thing, or
they do that. But a lot of times when you're
in the moment, you don't see that. Right when my
dad told me, don't go out, don't do this, don't
do that, my first reaction was like, I hate them.
Speaker 1 (28:50):
My other friends can do it and I can't.
Speaker 2 (28:52):
But now as a parent, it's the same thing. Now
I understand why he said what he said. But you
always pray that you get it before that family members
this earth, you know what I mean. And I thank
God every day that my dad is still here, that
I didn't leave being mad at him. And you know,
I try to explain more to my kids because I
never want them to feel that way, but I know
they must feel the same way when they be like
(29:13):
I can't go to my friend's house or sleep over.
Speaker 4 (29:14):
Why?
Speaker 2 (29:15):
And I know they might be mad because their friends
do it. But that grace and forgiveness. We have to
understand that a lot of the stuff that we do
is learned behavior, even if it's not right.
Speaker 1 (29:23):
We have to realize that a lot of the things
that we learned and we were taught were fucked up.
Speaker 5 (29:28):
Yeah, there's that famous quote you just reminded me of
that says, by the time you realize that your parents
are right, your kids are telling you that you're wrong.
And it's that awkward position that we end up in.
But you know what's really interesting about that. I was
talking to someone about this at dinner last night, and
there's this old story that I heard a while ago,
(29:48):
and it's always resonated with me, even with my own childhood,
not in particular, but in essence. So the story goes
that these two men were interviewed and one was an alcoholic,
the other one and never drunk alcohol, and they were brothers,
and they interviewed them and then they asked the one
who drank alcohol and was an alcoholic, he said, why
are you an alcoholic? He said, my dad was an alcoholic.
(30:10):
And then they asked the other brother, why don't you drink?
And he said, my dad was an alcoholic. And so
I think a lot of us got an education and
what not to do, but we ended up repeating it
instead of breaking the cycle. And I feel like in
my life I had to I got a great education
in a lot of my areas of life in what
not to do and who not to be, and I
took all those little notes down, and I think that's
(30:32):
what's improved my life. So I think if we're constantly
waiting for the perfect example and the perfect space and
the perfect surroundings and the perfect aren't and uncle and
the perfect parent, it's like we may be waiting forever
because no one's perfect. So we almost have to make
a list of what not to do, but what not
to do, but.
Speaker 4 (30:49):
Also how to.
Speaker 3 (30:50):
That's why that's why podcasts like On Purpose is so important.
That's why podcasts like you know, Debbie Brown deeply Well
is so important because we learn how to you know,
break break a lot cycle.
Speaker 5 (31:00):
Absolutely.
Speaker 4 (31:01):
Are you wearing gap right now?
Speaker 5 (31:02):
No?
Speaker 6 (31:03):
Not right now?
Speaker 4 (31:03):
Okay, I'm just happy because you saw that you saw
a gap.
Speaker 6 (31:08):
That's why.
Speaker 4 (31:08):
That's just thought you was handsome.
Speaker 5 (31:13):
I was like, all right, DJM, you know, you know,
I wasn't expecting that from you, But thank you, man.
Speaker 3 (31:20):
I appreciate you and your wife do the holiday holiday
gap campaign.
Speaker 5 (31:24):
Yeah, yeah, we we were just you know, when we
got asked to do that, it was like we couldn't
believe it.
Speaker 6 (31:29):
We're like, what is this?
Speaker 5 (31:30):
You know, like we grew up watching the Gap campaigns
like the holiday campaigns especially, and any I've said to
my wife, any time I get to do any work
with her is my favorite thing because I get to
hang with her all day. And so that shoot was fun.
They made it fun. The creative team was fantastic, Like
it was a good time. We walked out of there
having having had a great day. So it was a
lot of fun. And then it was it was surreal
(31:52):
because you know, yeah, definitely never been a model.
Speaker 3 (31:55):
So do you have a question yourself when you get
approached to do things like that, because you know, people think, for.
Speaker 4 (32:01):
Whatever, for whatever reason, what it is you do, Oh,
you shouldn't have a campaign to be a guru? You know?
Speaker 5 (32:09):
Do you ever question yourself about Yeah, absolutely, I've I've
had the challenges. I've had to sit with that question
so much. And here's what I've come out with. One
of the reasons I do it is because I don't want.
Speaker 4 (32:20):
To be the guru.
Speaker 5 (32:21):
I don't want to be that. I'm a normal guy
who likes nice things, who is married, who's happily married,
who who's living in the normal world, who has businesses
like everything. It's like, I just I want to be
that because I think that the you know, the putting
anyone up on a pedestal, that person will always let
you down because it's it's hard for anyone to live
(32:43):
up to that, and so I would rather take myself
off of it and normalize it and be good with that.
And at the same time, I think, I look at
it and I go, in my opinion, I'm hoping that
someone's going to see that and be reminded of wellness
and be reminded of well being from the perspective of like,
oh yeah, generally they do that thing. So I'm hoping
that it's actually helping us get the message out there more.
(33:05):
And maybe I'm wrong, but I also look at it
as things I enjoy doing and things I love doing
with my wife, and I live life in that way
and a lot of the opportunities come my way. One
of the things that I've really been working on, and
this is probably the most thoughtful answer I can give
to this, is I've realized that a lot of opportunities
I give today, a lot of opportunities I get today, they.
Speaker 6 (33:26):
Feel like a high five.
Speaker 5 (33:28):
To my sixteen year old self and my twelve year
old self, and even my five year old self, and
then there's the more evolved me of today. And so
I'm living these two lives, and I think we all
are living the life of what are inner child desired
and then are evolved today's self desires. And I've just
(33:49):
found that there are certain opportunities that fulfill it for
that inner child that I don't want to abandon, because
what I'm worried about is that if I abandon it,
there'll be some more biddenness, some more resentment that will develop,
that will grow in the future. And so I want
to make sure that I acknowledge the needs of that
in a child that maybe weren't met at that age
or that stage in my life. And so that's kind
(34:09):
of what I refer to a lot when I'm trying
to make these decisions.
Speaker 3 (34:12):
I don't have a problem with it, because you know,
we always say stop making stupid people famous, So so
why not make the small ones if the small ones
can get the light on them?
Speaker 4 (34:20):
Why not? Because when the amplifies, I appreciate that more
people you know, come in and pay attention.
Speaker 3 (34:24):
I want to ask you to do you get pushed
back from people who will watch you sit down with
a Michelle Obama or a Jada Pinket smith Man.
Speaker 4 (34:32):
Why didn't you challenge them on this? Why didn't you
challenge them on that?
Speaker 5 (34:35):
Yeah, I don't get pushed back for not challenging people
because I think the questions I ask are challenging in
a different way. But I think I'll get pushed back
because someone doesn't like that person. Yeah, but what I've
found every single time is that when someone actually listens
to the episode or watches it on YouTube, if you
look at that common section, it is spectacular, like when
(34:59):
someone's actually taking out time out of the day to
listen for an hour or watch for an hour, and
then you see the comment section, you'll see people having
complete I had people reaching out about both those episodes,
the President Biden interview as well that we did earlier
last year, and the comments of people who actually listened
to it. And by the way, a lot of people
were like, Hey, I don't agree with this person's politics.
(35:21):
I'm actually on completely on the other side. But I
just want you to know that listening to this interview
was so enlightening from a human perspective. Thank you for
putting it out there. And I respect that approach because
I think that's why I do the interview. I don't
do the interview for any other reason apart from us
looking at the broken mirror and looking back and saying, Okay,
where can I resonate with the humanity of this individual
(35:44):
or where can I relate to this person? So yeah,
I think that's generally the pushback. But the comment section.
I encourage you on those episodes to go look at
the YouTube comment section. It's phenomenal to read what people
are getting.
Speaker 3 (35:57):
Yeah, because I think your conversation with Jada pit and
gets Smith. The clips is what's set off the Jada
pink and hate tred not because of you.
Speaker 4 (36:05):
Yeah, you know what I mean.
Speaker 3 (36:06):
But if you didn't watch the whole conversation and context
and you just saw clips.
Speaker 4 (36:12):
Yeah, she got a tech Yeah Yeah.
Speaker 5 (36:14):
And Jada's a dear friend for me, So it's yeah,
it's it's a tough one because I think any clip
about anyone.
Speaker 6 (36:21):
I said, someone say this to me today.
Speaker 5 (36:23):
Yesterday they said to me Jay, they meant me for
the first time and they were like, Jay, you're so
much nicer in person. I didn't like you off a
few Instagram and I was like, fair enough, that's cool.
But it's it's so hard for me to be all
of myself in thirty seconds. And I'm trying my best.
You're trying your best. You'll try your best, but it's
hard for any of us.
Speaker 4 (36:42):
Like they did nothing like about you on Instagram. You're
with your wife. No, yeah, puppy's looking your face.
Speaker 5 (36:49):
No, in the sense of I think he was just
like you know, I feel like you feel a bit
like whatever it was, like whatever.
Speaker 6 (36:55):
I don't even know what it was.
Speaker 5 (36:56):
But I think all of us, if you judged any
of ourselves at thirty second real, oh, I'm sure all
of us would agree, it's not who we are, you know. So,
and that's why I've started I do stuff with my
wife because I feel I'm most myself when I'm with
my wife because naturally it's the person I spend the
most time with. And so, but even even with all
of us, like, I've got to meet you guys in
person a few times now. We were in Canned with
(37:16):
iHeart on, you know, for the festival last year together,
and I think when you've met people in person, that's
the only time you're going to feel like you've got
to know them. I don't think anyone under I feel
like if someone if someone okay, if someone follows me
on Instagram, they understand maybe ten percent of who I am.
Speaker 6 (37:33):
If they listen to my podcast.
Speaker 5 (37:34):
They probably understand seventy five percent of who I am
because they're really dialing into who I am. If they've
read my books and my podcast, they're probably like, at
that eighty nine percent. If they've seen me live, there
at that ninety five percent, and then when someone's met
me in person, it's one hundred percent. And so I
think it's all percentages. And I you know, I hope
that we all again going back to forgiveness and grace.
I hope that we can all give each other a
(37:55):
bit more benefit of the doubt because I think it
will go a long way for people.
Speaker 4 (37:58):
And you officiated been in j Lowe's wedding, Yeah.
Speaker 6 (38:02):
That was a year and a half ago.
Speaker 4 (38:03):
Were you to do that?
Speaker 6 (38:05):
I had to do the online kind of you know.
Speaker 4 (38:08):
Why they I mean, why did they?
Speaker 5 (38:09):
But I don't think you have to be in Georgia.
I don't think you need to be licensed, so I
don't know the rules of that. I can't remember why
did they pick you? Though? So i'd collaborated with Jen
for a while, like we've done a bunch of stuff together.
Okase she came on the show a few years ago,
we'd had a few great offline conversations. I went and
officiated weddings as part of the launch of her last
movie on her special and it was just, you know,
(38:34):
it just I was really grateful for the opportunity. I was,
you know, pinching myself as well. And you know, for me,
I love love, like I'm a massive lover of love.
And I'd sent her the book as well, and I
think that kind of made it happen to I'd sent
the book and when it was being written, and she
appreciated it and she wrote me a beautiful testimonial for it,
(38:54):
and that kind of led to the wedding as well.
Speaker 6 (38:57):
And it was like I felt like I.
Speaker 5 (39:00):
Was just trying to make sure I didn't cry, Like
I'm that kind of guy who like ugly cries during
a wedding and like gets really soppy, and like, you know,
she's walking down the aisle, bend's there, he's tearing up.
I'm like, don't cry, dude, you're going to ruin this.
Do not cry. And I just had to hold it together.
Just to get through because I was like, I'm about
the ball. So yeah, it was specially it's an amazing experience.
Speaker 4 (39:21):
I know you probably got a runch. I got like
one more question for you.
Speaker 3 (39:23):
You say, language has created the word loneliness. They expressed
the pain of being alone, and it has created the
word solitude, express the glory of being alone.
Speaker 4 (39:35):
Could you could expound on that?
Speaker 5 (39:36):
Yeah, it's a Paul Tillich quote. The writer Paul Tillich
said that, and to me, I extrapolated from his work
for my book because I was realizing that language and
the way we use words completely defines how we think
about things. So when you hear the word loneliness, you
think sadness, you think potentially depression, you think negativity. Of course,
(39:57):
solitude is spending time alone with yourself, but with strength,
with courage, as Paul Tillett says, glory. So what I've
realized is we've got to be so careful with the
language we use in our minds. Every single word is
a seed for either a weed or a flower, right,
and so every single word that you say is defining.
So if I keep saying I'm lonely, I'm lonely, I'm lonely,
(40:19):
that's going to impact how I feel. But if I
say I'm in solitude all of a sudden, there's a
strength that comes with that. And so I just want
to encourage people to recognize that being alone doesn't have
to be a weakness. It can be a time of
strength and self awareness and personal growth. But it is
about the language that we use with ourselves. And so
I would ask everyone to this one activity. Think about
(40:40):
the one word that comes to your mind the moment
you wake up or the moment you go to sleep.
Make that word a word that you want it to be.
Don't let the word you go to sleep with, and
don't let the word you wake up with be a
word that makes you feel negative, unhealthy, or weak. Because
those studies show we have sixty to eighty thousand thoughts
per day, and eighty percent of them are negative, and
(41:03):
eighty percent of them are repetitive, which means you're having
the same negative word or thought repeating. It's not like
we're having lots of different thoughts, it's the same thought. Now,
you can't control sixty to eighty thousand thoughts, but you
can control two thoughts of the day. So just master
the first thought of the day and the last thought
of the day, and make it a thought and a
word that you want it to be.
Speaker 4 (41:20):
I wonder when that study was done.
Speaker 3 (41:21):
I wonder was it before social media after because I
feel like with social media is probably trippled.
Speaker 5 (41:25):
At Yeah, I probably read it that. That's that probably
I've read in the last three to four years. So
I guess while social media is around. But yeah, I
mean now it could have totally tripled. But it's interesting
because it's the same thought often.
Speaker 4 (41:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (41:36):
Right, It's a lot of time we keep saying the
same thing. I'm so tired, I'm so tired that thought
could life last a year? Or like, oh god, I'm
so scared at work, I'm so anxious, that could last
a year?
Speaker 4 (41:45):
So h one more thing, Yeah, man, is there anything
Jay Shady hates?
Speaker 6 (41:50):
Ooh ooh, that is that's a great question. I need
to give a good answer for that.
Speaker 5 (41:55):
You think about that. By then, of the answer I
was going to give, I have to I can't. So
the answer is I don't because I think hate personally,
(42:19):
collectively individually doesn't lead to greatness. I've never seen hate
lead to greatness. I've never seen hate lead to purpose.
I've never seen hate lead to a positive outcome, and
so I think hating anything is setting yourself up to
never see the greatness to goodness in it, and so
I'd prefer not to hate anything.
Speaker 4 (42:39):
What about the Notebook.
Speaker 5 (42:43):
I don't hate the notebook, but I have heard I
have thoughts about the notebook Charlamayne, I don't hate the number.
I find it hilarious as to how many. And I was,
like I said, I'm a hopeless romantic. I've been like
that my whole life because I grew up watching Hollywood
movies thinking that that's how I was meant to fall
in love. I was that person who felt for that.
And now I've read about something that they call Disney
Princess syndrome, where people walk around like feeling like they're
(43:07):
going to be saved by their partner, like you're gonna
have a night in shining armor, Who's gonna come in
and rescue you? And I think there's Disney Prince syndrome
as well, where we want to go and save someone
and we want to be the be all and end
all of everything. So the Notebook just has some really
questionable lines where like Ryan Gosling's character says to Rachel
mcadam's character, he'll say things like, oh, you know, I
(43:29):
could be anything you want me to be. I'll be anything. Right,
we've heard that. But then the other thing is, she's
on a ferrist wheel. Is thatways called ferrist wheel? Right,
that's what you call it, ferrist wheel. I have to
check my British and American, but yeah, she's on the
Ferrist wheel. He's hanging off the Ferrist wheel. And he goes,
if you don't go on a date with me, I
will fall like I'll let go. That's really unhealthy.
Speaker 4 (43:51):
That is.
Speaker 6 (43:54):
Like saying to.
Speaker 5 (43:54):
Someone I am I'm going to commit if you don't
go out with me and those and we may thinks
a movie, it doesn't matter. I know people who've heard
that from people. I've had people who've stalk I know
people who've stalked people who've had people chase them down,
who've said things like that to people. So I didn't
kill myself, you leave me exactly. So I think we've
got to be careful about these ideas. If you're watching
(44:15):
his entertainment, it was really funny. I was talking to
someone the other day and they were like, they're like,
I didn't sleep so well, and I was like, what
did you watch last night? And they went an American nightmare?
Speaker 6 (44:21):
And I was like, yeah, obviously, what do you expect?
Speaker 5 (44:23):
So whenever anyone tells me they wake up with anxiety,
the first question I says, what did you watch last night?
Because that is going to tell me what was in
your brain? So yeah, I don't hate the number.
Speaker 4 (44:33):
You think it's a horror movie though basically.
Speaker 6 (44:36):
It will make your life into a horror movie for sure.
Speaker 1 (44:39):
Well, J Sheddy ladies and gentlemen, when can they follow you?
Speaker 4 (44:42):
Jay?
Speaker 5 (44:42):
Come and check out the podcast On Purpose. It's where
I'm pouring my heart and soul and you know, excited
to share so many more amazing, maybe thought provoking, maybe
even pushing you slightly conversations to come and join us
at On Purpose.
Speaker 3 (44:55):
And his latest book was Eight Rules of Love that
came out last year, how to Find It, Keep It,
and Let It Go.
Speaker 4 (45:00):
You got any a new book coming.
Speaker 5 (45:01):
Or no, no, no, this was just I was just
excited to be back with you and hanging and actually,
do you know what, sometimes I love these conversations because
I came here not knowing where it was going to
go and then you guys just guide it beautifully.
Speaker 6 (45:11):
So this was wonderful man, Thank you guys.
Speaker 1 (45:13):
Jay Shatty, It's the Breakfast Club. Good morning, wake that
ass up in the morning.
Speaker 4 (45:18):
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