June 3, 2025 • 12 mins
Buck is joined by Paula Scanlan, former NCAA swimmer and teammate of Lia Thomas, to expose how women's sports are being undermined. Paula shares her personal experience in the locker room, the threats she faced for speaking out, and why she believes Title IX is being violated. Buck and Paula also react to the controversy out of Clovis, California, where a transgender athlete won gold in the girls high jump and triple jump under a new rule change.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:11):
You're listening to the Buck Sexton Show podcast, make sure
you subscribe to the podcast on the iHeartRadio app or
wherever you get your podcasts. Why is Gavin Newsom letting
men beat women in track and field? This is a
violation of Title nine. It's a violation of common sense.
And our next guest knows exactly how absurd this stuff
can get. Paulus Scanlon is with us now. She is
(00:34):
a senior fellow at the American Principals Project and a
former Division one swimmer who liked Riley Gaines had her
own experience with a transman or trans woman. I know,
I just know the transpart. I forget what we're supposed
to say a guy saying he's a girl. Tell everybody
a little bit about your background, how you came into
this sports debate situation. Men and women should be separate.
(00:55):
All that.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
Well, I'm sure everyone knows who the wonderful six foot
four and a half giant Leah Thomas is.
Speaker 3 (01:02):
He was my teammate.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
He went on and obviously tied Riley at the NCAA Championship,
which everyone saw the ridiculous photo of them together on
the podium stand. But he was my teammate and my university,
the University of Pennsylvania, told us if we ever spoke
out against him being on the team, that we would
never be able to find a job, that we would
be painted as a hateful, disgusting bigot for the rest
(01:23):
of our lives. They even compared not wanting to undress
in the locker room with him eighteen times per week
as not wanting to undress with someone based on the
race in the nineteen sixties.
Speaker 1 (01:34):
So that was said to you by employees of U
University Pennsylvania.
Speaker 3 (01:40):
Yes, they said, this is the next civil rights movement.
Speaker 2 (01:42):
You don't want to be known as those bigots in
the nineteen sixties that wanted to segregate locker rooms based
on people's race. And I'm sitting there, I'm like, there's
no way you genuinely believe this. And then it gets better.
At the end of this meeting, they said, Okay, if
everything we've said and screamed at you for the last
twenty minutes is not enough for you, here's the representative
from student psychological Services. Please go make an appointment because
(02:04):
you are the problem and you need help. And the
man on our team who's trying to pretend to be
a woman. He didn't have to come to this meeting,
he didn't have to go to the counselor, and he
was told that he was completely in the right and
he was totally valid in his identity, and go on.
Speaker 3 (02:17):
And go forth.
Speaker 1 (02:18):
Ah, that's that's not I've heard some of this from
Riley Gains the side of it, but I hadn't heard
from you as a teammate. That's pretty astonishing stuff. We're
going to get into this ab Hernandez case in a second.
It's a high school state track championship. And I don't
know if you managed to see some of what CNN's
Brianna Keeler was saying over the weekend about this, but'
(02:40):
the usual A lot of the arguments that you'll hear
around this, and I'll have you address them as somebody
who had who had to swim with and against a man?
Was was he? So you did have to change with him? Right?
I mean not to get too deep into this, but right, yes.
Speaker 2 (02:57):
Eighteen times per week for a year, because we have
nine practices every single week, and you change in and
change out of your swimsuit every practice, so he's eighteen
times completely naked per week in front of this.
Speaker 1 (03:08):
Grown man and this guy Thomas. Was he attracted to women?
I mean not again, Like this is the thing that
I think is no, really like is he is he trands?
But but you know, biologically heterosexual, because like that would
seem to be even I don't know, it's it's crazy
stuff across the board is yes, what what do you think?
(03:32):
I mean, it's does he date women or men?
Speaker 2 (03:34):
Well, he was actually dating a member of the women's
team prior.
Speaker 3 (03:38):
To transitioning to Will.
Speaker 2 (03:39):
But then his current partner is actually another man that
says he's a woman. So maybe both men and women
and also people who are also confused. I don't know,
but look, to be honest to me, it doesn't matter.
The entire thing is this person is clearly not well
and they should not be on a women's sports team.
Speaker 3 (04:00):
End of story.
Speaker 1 (04:01):
I think that's a that's a perfectly straightforward and sane
approach to this. So with that, you must have seen
a big story near times, all these different papers covering it.
Trans Athlete ab Hernandez got first place in the high jump,
first place in the triple jump in the California High
School Championship, and then we're supposed to cheer because he
(04:24):
and of course they all call this person she he
shared the podium with, you know, with the girls, Like
this is supposed to be some kind of a concession
to ab Hernandez's magnanimity or something. It strikes me is
this whole thing is insane.
Speaker 2 (04:40):
I think the guitar thing is just ridiculous that he's
even there. I mean, we're seeing CNN and all these
other news outlets trying to hype this up to be
a good thing. I think, honestly, Trump is in a
really good position right now stepping into this, continuing to
put pressure on these states. California should be just not
just defunded sports and Title nine wise, I think we
should just defund the entire state of California. And unfortunately,
(05:02):
in this situation, what we're seeing is these left wing states,
Blue states are pushing this, and the Southern states and
the conservative states have figured out and they're like, no,
men don't belong on women's sports teams yet, California, And
this is happening every weekend.
Speaker 1 (05:15):
Yeah, there's a number of states that are defying the
Trump administration on this issue, and they're in doing so
jeopardizing federal funds, which it's interesting to me, Paula, that
has always been the mechanism used to get compliance with
Title nine, and we never heard a peep about it
before then, and now it's, oh my gosh, what will
happen to all the people affected by their withdrawal of funds?
(05:35):
Like well, if you were a university and you didn't
have parody in spending between men's and women's sports, you
risk your Title nine funding. So that's what they got
rid of, all these men's wrestling programs and crew programs
and all this at different schools. So it used to
be fine, but now this is a tool that we're
told we can't use it anymore. It feels pretty arbitrary
and obviously political.
Speaker 3 (05:58):
It's the entire situation is just completely ridiculous.
Speaker 2 (06:00):
I mean, even on the women's swim team at Penn,
before Leah Thomas was competing on it, our coach had
told us we had to have more women on the
women's roster or men would have to get cut, and
every single season it would be up to the number
of girls he'd recruited, or even if a girl chose
to quit, it would cut another boys spot.
Speaker 3 (06:17):
Off our team.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
I mean, this is something we dealt with in all
of college and now it's like, well, actually, the men,
if they get cut from the men's program, they can
just hop onto the women's team, and for some reason
now it adds them another female athlete to the university.
And also they're allowed to compete and beat all of
these women in any sport that they want to. I mean,
it's just completely ridiculous. And again this guy, oh great,
(06:40):
he shared the podium with a woman. He should not
be there. Go compete in the men's category. No one's
kicking you out of sports. Yet, it's a narcissism thing.
This isn't even about athletics anymore. These are narcissistic, mentally
unwell people that just want to rob opportunities away from
others and enjoy doing that.
Speaker 1 (06:58):
Our sponsor here is Paradigm Press. Some nations have a
fund call the Sovereign Wealth Fund Japan, Norway, Saudi Arabia
National Program that many citizens of that country can benefit
from when the nation invests in the development of an
asset assets. Oil is an example. Our nation has never
had one, though there are states like Texas and Alaska
that do well there's a possibility coming forward, according to
(07:19):
Jim Rickards, of an asset worth one hundred and fifty
trillion dollars that has been buried on American soil and
could be the basis for a sovereign wealth fund. This endowment,
so to speak, is so large it could pay off
our national debt four times over. Why has been kept
secret so long? Well, thanks for Supreme Court decision. President
Trump could soon release it again. Jim Rickard's former advisor
of the White House and Federal Reserve, wants to hear
(07:39):
exactly why. He thinks if you're over fifty, this could
be your best chance to build lasting wealth from a
once in a century event. To hear more of Jim's thinking,
go online to birthright twenty twenty five dot com. If
he's right, it could make President Trump the most popular
president in history. Go to birthright twenty twenty five dot
com to get the details free of charge, paid for
by Paradigm Press. PAULA. Yeah, so you might have seen
(08:01):
on CNN there was the anchor arguing with this conservative
legal you know, sort of legal activist, and one of
the things I said is, we don't know if men
have an advantage over women biologically, we need more study.
What do you say to that as somebody who swam
division ie as a.
Speaker 2 (08:17):
Female, I think the situation is just completely insane and
CNN is losing their minds. We do not need science
degrees to even see this. Have you watched any of
the years of the Olympics. And actually, when I was
researching this very early on, when I was dealing with
this four years ago, I actually found a New York
Times article talking about the differences between male and female
(08:38):
athletes and comparing how all of the male champions in
every single Olympic event were better than the female champions.
I don't I'm trying to give them research or studies,
but it's not about that. It's they've perpetuated fake news
and every single thing that they've ever talked about, so
it's not surprising that they're magically losing touch with reality
and saying men and women just, oh, we need to
(08:58):
see more science. I don't think you need to see anything.
Watch the Olympics, watch NCAA basketball, watch I don't even
I don't even know anything. High school basketball team. You
can see the difference.
Speaker 1 (09:10):
Yeah, It's it strikes me as very clear, though CNN
also took the position with this anchor, But I know
the Democrats more broadly will take this position that gender
is the sex you're assigned at birth, or rather that
sex assigned at birth is what people refer to, not gender.
It's they keep changing these definitions. But as if doctors
(09:30):
look at it and make some determination that isn't based
on the most obvious things imaginable.
Speaker 2 (09:37):
I I again, it's like I want to give them
scientific research, and I tried to do that.
Speaker 3 (09:41):
I would look at facts, I would look at information.
Speaker 2 (09:43):
I would say, oh, here, the you know, tistaschon doesn't
actually suppressing your disashone doesn't get rid of all these
other factors that make you physically different. And we would
try to reason with these leftist activists on these issues,
and they didn't want to hear us. And so at
this point, I don't really know what else I can say.
All I know is I'm watching these track meets. I'm
watching all of these events that male athletes are competing in,
and it does not take a very intelligent person to
(10:06):
see that men and women are different. And I think
human society has known men and women are different for
thousands of years and I don't know why in the
year twenty twenty five, somehow that's just forgotten and doesn't
exist anymore.
Speaker 1 (10:20):
Yeah, it is getting increasingly and obviously insane, and the
Democrats aren't backing off of this. I'm just wondering when
you were dealing with this at University Pennsylvania or swimming,
there were any of the girls, to your knowledge, like
on board for all of this, the ones who were
competing themselves, were some of them actually brainwashed enough to
(10:41):
think that this was normal? Or was everyone just like
this is crazy?
Speaker 3 (10:45):
There were a few girls that absolutely stood by it.
They would talk about it, they would write letters. There
was actually something.
Speaker 2 (10:53):
That they had released to the NCAA, a letter saying,
US athletes on the team support Thomas.
Speaker 3 (11:00):
You can go find that that was something that happened.
Speaker 2 (11:02):
Yes, there were absolutely girls who bought into this, were
brainwashed and truly believed that Leah Thomas was a woman
simply because he said so.
Speaker 1 (11:11):
That's craziness. All right, Well, thank you Paula Scalen for
being with us, and we'll talk to you again soon.
Speaker 3 (11:18):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (11:18):
Few nonprofit organizations can make the claim that preborn can
that they save the lives of hundreds of thousands of
unborn babies. Just their efforts in the last year alone,
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from abortion. Preborn has been doing this for twenty years
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(11:40):
meets at each meets women at clinics nationwide to help
them in this moment and offer them love and support.
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unborn child and it is a game changer for life.
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(12:02):
country where abortion rates are high. They do this on
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To donate securely, dial pound two five zero and say
the keyword baby. That's pound two five zero. Say Baby,
(12:23):
or visit preborn dot com slash buck that's preborn dot
com slash b u c K sponsored by Preborn
You're listening to the Buck Sexton Show podcast, make sure
you subscribe to the podcast on the iHeartRadio app or
wherever you get your podcasts. Why is Gavin Newsom letting
men beat women in track and field? This is a
violation of Title nine. It's a violation of common sense.
And our next guest knows exactly how absurd this stuff
can get. Paulus Scanlon is with us now. She is
(00:34):
a senior fellow at the American Principals Project and a
former Division one swimmer who liked Riley Gaines had her
own experience with a transman or trans woman. I know,
I just know the transpart. I forget what we're supposed
to say a guy saying he's a girl. Tell everybody
a little bit about your background, how you came into
this sports debate situation. Men and women should be separate.
(00:55):
All that.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
Well, I'm sure everyone knows who the wonderful six foot
four and a half giant Leah Thomas is.
Speaker 3 (01:02):
He was my teammate.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
He went on and obviously tied Riley at the NCAA Championship,
which everyone saw the ridiculous photo of them together on
the podium stand. But he was my teammate and my university,
the University of Pennsylvania, told us if we ever spoke
out against him being on the team, that we would
never be able to find a job, that we would
be painted as a hateful, disgusting bigot for the rest
(01:23):
of our lives. They even compared not wanting to undress
in the locker room with him eighteen times per week
as not wanting to undress with someone based on the
race in the nineteen sixties.
Speaker 1 (01:34):
So that was said to you by employees of U
University Pennsylvania.
Speaker 3 (01:40):
Yes, they said, this is the next civil rights movement.
Speaker 2 (01:42):
You don't want to be known as those bigots in
the nineteen sixties that wanted to segregate locker rooms based
on people's race. And I'm sitting there, I'm like, there's
no way you genuinely believe this. And then it gets better.
At the end of this meeting, they said, Okay, if
everything we've said and screamed at you for the last
twenty minutes is not enough for you, here's the representative
from student psychological Services. Please go make an appointment because
(02:04):
you are the problem and you need help. And the
man on our team who's trying to pretend to be
a woman. He didn't have to come to this meeting,
he didn't have to go to the counselor, and he
was told that he was completely in the right and
he was totally valid in his identity, and go on.
Speaker 3 (02:17):
And go forth.
Speaker 1 (02:18):
Ah, that's that's not I've heard some of this from
Riley Gains the side of it, but I hadn't heard
from you as a teammate. That's pretty astonishing stuff. We're
going to get into this ab Hernandez case in a second.
It's a high school state track championship. And I don't
know if you managed to see some of what CNN's
Brianna Keeler was saying over the weekend about this, but'
(02:40):
the usual A lot of the arguments that you'll hear
around this, and I'll have you address them as somebody
who had who had to swim with and against a man?
Was was he? So you did have to change with him? Right?
I mean not to get too deep into this, but right, yes.
Speaker 2 (02:57):
Eighteen times per week for a year, because we have
nine practices every single week, and you change in and
change out of your swimsuit every practice, so he's eighteen
times completely naked per week in front of this.
Speaker 1 (03:08):
Grown man and this guy Thomas. Was he attracted to women?
I mean not again, Like this is the thing that
I think is no, really like is he is he trands?
But but you know, biologically heterosexual, because like that would
seem to be even I don't know, it's it's crazy
stuff across the board is yes, what what do you think?
(03:32):
I mean, it's does he date women or men?
Speaker 2 (03:34):
Well, he was actually dating a member of the women's
team prior.
Speaker 3 (03:38):
To transitioning to Will.
Speaker 2 (03:39):
But then his current partner is actually another man that
says he's a woman. So maybe both men and women
and also people who are also confused. I don't know,
but look, to be honest to me, it doesn't matter.
The entire thing is this person is clearly not well
and they should not be on a women's sports team.
Speaker 3 (04:00):
End of story.
Speaker 1 (04:01):
I think that's a that's a perfectly straightforward and sane
approach to this. So with that, you must have seen
a big story near times, all these different papers covering it.
Trans Athlete ab Hernandez got first place in the high jump,
first place in the triple jump in the California High
School Championship, and then we're supposed to cheer because he
(04:24):
and of course they all call this person she he
shared the podium with, you know, with the girls, Like
this is supposed to be some kind of a concession
to ab Hernandez's magnanimity or something. It strikes me is
this whole thing is insane.
Speaker 2 (04:40):
I think the guitar thing is just ridiculous that he's
even there. I mean, we're seeing CNN and all these
other news outlets trying to hype this up to be
a good thing. I think, honestly, Trump is in a
really good position right now stepping into this, continuing to
put pressure on these states. California should be just not
just defunded sports and Title nine wise, I think we
should just defund the entire state of California. And unfortunately,
(05:02):
in this situation, what we're seeing is these left wing states,
Blue states are pushing this, and the Southern states and
the conservative states have figured out and they're like, no,
men don't belong on women's sports teams yet, California, And
this is happening every weekend.
Speaker 1 (05:15):
Yeah, there's a number of states that are defying the
Trump administration on this issue, and they're in doing so
jeopardizing federal funds, which it's interesting to me, Paula, that
has always been the mechanism used to get compliance with
Title nine, and we never heard a peep about it
before then, and now it's, oh my gosh, what will
happen to all the people affected by their withdrawal of funds?
(05:35):
Like well, if you were a university and you didn't
have parody in spending between men's and women's sports, you
risk your Title nine funding. So that's what they got
rid of, all these men's wrestling programs and crew programs
and all this at different schools. So it used to
be fine, but now this is a tool that we're
told we can't use it anymore. It feels pretty arbitrary
and obviously political.
Speaker 3 (05:58):
It's the entire situation is just completely ridiculous.
Speaker 2 (06:00):
I mean, even on the women's swim team at Penn,
before Leah Thomas was competing on it, our coach had
told us we had to have more women on the
women's roster or men would have to get cut, and
every single season it would be up to the number
of girls he'd recruited, or even if a girl chose
to quit, it would cut another boys spot.
Speaker 3 (06:17):
Off our team.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
I mean, this is something we dealt with in all
of college and now it's like, well, actually, the men,
if they get cut from the men's program, they can
just hop onto the women's team, and for some reason
now it adds them another female athlete to the university.
And also they're allowed to compete and beat all of
these women in any sport that they want to. I mean,
it's just completely ridiculous. And again this guy, oh great,
(06:40):
he shared the podium with a woman. He should not
be there. Go compete in the men's category. No one's
kicking you out of sports. Yet, it's a narcissism thing.
This isn't even about athletics anymore. These are narcissistic, mentally
unwell people that just want to rob opportunities away from
others and enjoy doing that.
Speaker 1 (06:58):
Our sponsor here is Paradigm Press. Some nations have a
fund call the Sovereign Wealth Fund Japan, Norway, Saudi Arabia
National Program that many citizens of that country can benefit
from when the nation invests in the development of an
asset assets. Oil is an example. Our nation has never
had one, though there are states like Texas and Alaska
that do well there's a possibility coming forward, according to
(07:19):
Jim Rickards, of an asset worth one hundred and fifty
trillion dollars that has been buried on American soil and
could be the basis for a sovereign wealth fund. This endowment,
so to speak, is so large it could pay off
our national debt four times over. Why has been kept
secret so long? Well, thanks for Supreme Court decision. President
Trump could soon release it again. Jim Rickard's former advisor
of the White House and Federal Reserve, wants to hear
(07:39):
exactly why. He thinks if you're over fifty, this could
be your best chance to build lasting wealth from a
once in a century event. To hear more of Jim's thinking,
go online to birthright twenty twenty five dot com. If
he's right, it could make President Trump the most popular
president in history. Go to birthright twenty twenty five dot
com to get the details free of charge, paid for
by Paradigm Press. PAULA. Yeah, so you might have seen
(08:01):
on CNN there was the anchor arguing with this conservative
legal you know, sort of legal activist, and one of
the things I said is, we don't know if men
have an advantage over women biologically, we need more study.
What do you say to that as somebody who swam
division ie as a.
Speaker 2 (08:17):
Female, I think the situation is just completely insane and
CNN is losing their minds. We do not need science
degrees to even see this. Have you watched any of
the years of the Olympics. And actually, when I was
researching this very early on, when I was dealing with
this four years ago, I actually found a New York
Times article talking about the differences between male and female
(08:38):
athletes and comparing how all of the male champions in
every single Olympic event were better than the female champions.
I don't I'm trying to give them research or studies,
but it's not about that. It's they've perpetuated fake news
and every single thing that they've ever talked about, so
it's not surprising that they're magically losing touch with reality
and saying men and women just, oh, we need to
(08:58):
see more science. I don't think you need to see anything.
Watch the Olympics, watch NCAA basketball, watch I don't even
I don't even know anything. High school basketball team. You
can see the difference.
Speaker 1 (09:10):
Yeah, It's it strikes me as very clear, though CNN
also took the position with this anchor, But I know
the Democrats more broadly will take this position that gender
is the sex you're assigned at birth, or rather that
sex assigned at birth is what people refer to, not gender.
It's they keep changing these definitions. But as if doctors
(09:30):
look at it and make some determination that isn't based
on the most obvious things imaginable.
Speaker 2 (09:37):
I I again, it's like I want to give them
scientific research, and I tried to do that.
Speaker 3 (09:41):
I would look at facts, I would look at information.
Speaker 2 (09:43):
I would say, oh, here, the you know, tistaschon doesn't
actually suppressing your disashone doesn't get rid of all these
other factors that make you physically different. And we would
try to reason with these leftist activists on these issues,
and they didn't want to hear us. And so at
this point, I don't really know what else I can say.
All I know is I'm watching these track meets. I'm
watching all of these events that male athletes are competing in,
and it does not take a very intelligent person to
(10:06):
see that men and women are different. And I think
human society has known men and women are different for
thousands of years and I don't know why in the
year twenty twenty five, somehow that's just forgotten and doesn't
exist anymore.
Speaker 1 (10:20):
Yeah, it is getting increasingly and obviously insane, and the
Democrats aren't backing off of this. I'm just wondering when
you were dealing with this at University Pennsylvania or swimming,
there were any of the girls, to your knowledge, like
on board for all of this, the ones who were
competing themselves, were some of them actually brainwashed enough to
(10:41):
think that this was normal? Or was everyone just like
this is crazy?
Speaker 3 (10:45):
There were a few girls that absolutely stood by it.
They would talk about it, they would write letters. There
was actually something.
Speaker 2 (10:53):
That they had released to the NCAA, a letter saying,
US athletes on the team support Thomas.
Speaker 3 (11:00):
You can go find that that was something that happened.
Speaker 2 (11:02):
Yes, there were absolutely girls who bought into this, were
brainwashed and truly believed that Leah Thomas was a woman
simply because he said so.
Speaker 1 (11:11):
That's craziness. All right, Well, thank you Paula Scalen for
being with us, and we'll talk to you again soon.
Speaker 3 (11:18):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (11:18):
Few nonprofit organizations can make the claim that preborn can
that they save the lives of hundreds of thousands of
unborn babies. Just their efforts in the last year alone,
with your help and contribution, have saved so many lives
from abortion. Preborn has been doing this for twenty years
to meet and change the minds of pregnant women who
are contending with that critical decision whether to give life
or to choose abortion for their unborn child. Preborn team
(11:40):
meets at each meets women at clinics nationwide to help
them in this moment and offer them love and support.
Preborn starts this process with the gift of an ultrasound.
That ultrasound allows the mother to be to meet her
unborn child and it is a game changer for life.
They accomplish that goal with just a twenty eight dollars
expense per ultrasound. Preborn operates clinics and communities across the
(12:02):
country where abortion rates are high. They do this on
purpose to save as many lives as possible. Please save
a tiny baby's life today. To donate securely, just dial
pound two fifty say the keywords Clay and Buck. I'm sorry.
To donate securely, dial pound two five zero and say
the keyword baby. That's pound two five zero. Say Baby,
(12:23):
or visit preborn dot com slash buck that's preborn dot
com slash b u c K sponsored by Preborn
Host
Buck Sexton
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