April 24, 2025 • 48 mins
In this episode, Caleb sits down with Mark to unpack what it really takes to build lasting wealth in today’s chaotic world. They dive into the concept of building wealth in layers—using assets to acquire more assets, leveraging smart debt, and creating financial systems that can’t be shut down. From Bitcoin as a long-term strategic reserve to the role of stablecoins and private credit, Mark shares real-world strategies for stacking value while staying nimble. They also discuss how to legally minimize taxes, why the old financial system is designed to keep you stuck, and how to regain sovereignty by decentralizing your life. Whether you’re just starting out or already deep in the wealth-building journey, this episode is packed with practical insight, hard truths, and a blueprint for becoming untouchable in a world that’s increasingly unstable.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
The way that the wealthy build wealth. They're using multiple
things in a proper sequence in order to invest through
layers to multiply their well five hundred times faster. I
could have just put it into an index fund and
it could have grown at six or seven percent. But
here I've turned it into fifteen million. But that doesn't
stop there. Now that fifteen million I can borrow against that.
Bitcoin is our single greatest weapon, not just to build
(00:24):
wealth for ourselves, just to change the world in a
massively positive way. If it could capture one point five
percent by twenty thirty, that puts it at one million
dollars per bitcoin. Wow, as twenty years after it came out,
Airbnb did ten percent. Ten years. Whoever's listening to this,
you're not smarter than Howard Lednik. He put a billion
dollars in microstrets. So all these people, well, micro strategy
(00:45):
to scamponzie. Okay, they put a billion dollars, that's like
forty percent into micro strategy. On the other side, they
invested into Tether. Tether is the largest stable coin company
in the world. And you're bearish, like, we have this.
One of the smartest guys in the world built multiple
millions of dollars multiple times, running the govern building these
operations and and and having his money where his mouth
is in three different companies that are benefiting from this. Right.
(01:05):
They're not doing it to pump their bags. They realize
it's the best asset in the world. Yeah, cru Argentina, Lebanon, Turkey,
et cetera. They desperately want dollars because their currencies are
exploding all around them, but they're not able to get dollars.
Their countries keep them from doing that. So US dollars
stable coins have made it where they can easily get
to the US dollars. So the world desperately wants US dollars,
(01:26):
so the US dollar stable coin will get to the
entire world. And then the government also has another problem,
the government these people to buy mark.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
Thank you, thank you so much for Lena, and may
use your studio and interview you man. Yeah, exciting, what
uh what are you most excited about right now in
this crazy time?
Speaker 1 (01:46):
Hmmm? What am I the most excited about? I'm so
excited in every part of my life. Let me let
me let me just back this up and then we'll
try to answer that question. I believe that all of
life is about the law of compounding, right, so Einstein
(02:06):
called the eighth wonder of the world. Those who know
it receive it, those who don't know what pay it.
But typically that's used. I'm sure you use that all
the time in regards to how an account compounds over
time and it doubles and things like that. But it's
not just about money. It's about every single part of life,
every single part of life. And so I built this
(02:27):
house down in Mexico, this really big house on the beach.
This guy came in. He went to do this home
automation for me. He'd never done a house this big,
is really outside of his reach, and he was hoping
that he could use my house to help him start
getting more high end clients. He did the worst job ever. Now,
if he would have done a really good job, I
would have recommend to all my neighbors. But because he
(02:48):
did such a horrible job, I'll tell all my neighbors
to never work with him. So instead of it compounding
one job gets some five jobs, five jobs gets some
twenty jobs, I'll make sure he never gets another job.
Not because I'm vindictive, but if my neighbors asked me
I have to say no. But it so if I
make a good YouTube video, people are more likely to
watch my next YouTube video. If I make a bad one,
they won't watch it again. But when it comes to learning,
(03:12):
it's also the same way. Like I'm in this space
where like I am just like voraciously trying to expand
into every value that I have. I want to be
like the ultimate best, not to be other people, but
just be a better version of myself. But in every area,
I want to work smarter, I want to do bigger deals,
i want to get more in shape, I want to
(03:34):
be a better father in every area. And that was
also the law of compounding as well. So it's like
I didn't always be I wasn't always like this, but
at one point I read a book. I was like, Wow,
that changed my life a little bit. What if I
read another one? What if I read another Oh my gosh,
what if I read what if I hired this coach?
Oh my gosh, what if I And like over time,
and so now I'm at this point in my life
(03:55):
right now where it's like I'm just like so excited
for every single part because every single part of my
life is just maximizing and then they start to compound
on each other. Right, So, now what I'm doing in
the gym, the discipline I'm building the gym, the way
I've tweaked my diet to give me maximum energy all day,
then goes into my work and my clarity. So I'm
super excited about a lot of things because that, as
(04:16):
you can tell, I would say, ultimately, one big thing
that I'm really focused on is the law of compounding.
I started making YouTube videos about seven eight years ago,
and I didn't want to. My partner at the time
forced me to, like we were going to break up.
Our business would fall apart if I didn't, And here
we are the law of compounding. My reach has gotten
(04:37):
to the point, you know, they got one hundred million
views or whatever, and the doors that has opened up
because of that, the law of compounding, the relationships that
I've built, and now like the it I'm starting to
see the impact that I'm making on people's lives through
the coaching consulting programs like real serious change, but also
(04:58):
like now I have like companies coming to me. I
have like a publicly traded company that I just launched
I'm an officer of. I have other companies that are
giving me equity to help them, and so it's like
my pursuit of growth being better every day has now compounded,
and I see this ripple effect. And so now I'm
(05:18):
coaching and consulting people on a weekly basis. I have
people coming into my studio this week to help them,
and I see the impact of that. So I'm super
excited about that. But then I see my reach even
going into businesses and companies and helping them, and so
that's what I'm the most excited about. So it's like
almost like my pursuit of leveling up is now compounded
into other people's lives and even businesses, and it's just
(05:39):
amazing to see.
Speaker 2 (05:40):
Yeah, I'm hoping to get a mini master class on
your thoughts about bitcoin and economics and just how Trump's doing.
But before that, you've been talking about building wealth and layers,
and I would just love to hear you articulate that.
And you know, because people come to you all over
the place to learn how to build wealth, and you're
although you're fan of bitcoin and some other things, you
(06:01):
also can look you can take a step back and
look holistically at the situation.
Speaker 1 (06:05):
Well, I'm mostly known for my work in bitcoin, I
got started making content around cryptocurrency. Now it's just bitcoin,
that crypto, but I started my career in real estate.
So it's like I've been an investor through multiple markets,
through multiple assets, and I'd say, certainly, I think that
bitcoin is the cheat code. Bitcoin is our single greatest weapon,
not just to build wealth for ourselves, which it is,
(06:27):
and we'll break that down, but to change the world
in a massively positive way. So it's the cheat code
for life for us individually and as a as a
as a world. But also like whether you'd like bitcoin
or not, put that, put that aside. Whether you like
real estate, okay, like whatever, there's this raging debate in
the bitcoin circles, like real estate or bitcoin, which one's better.
(06:48):
Maybe you're a Dave Ramsey fan and you think you
should just go into mutual funds and index funds like okay, fine,
Like choose your weapon. But the way that the wealthy
build wealth, and part of me building out this network
is getting access to people like this to see these
things is that it doesn't matter. They're not trying to
choose the best. They're using multiple things in a proper
(07:10):
sequence and order to invest through layers to multiply their
well three hundred five times, five hundred times faster. And
so whether you like bitcoin or don't, or whether you
like index funds are don't, or whether whether you like
real estate or not, that's not the point. It's how
do I use multiple assets understanding what we're really doing
with them, and using them in the proper order and
(07:31):
sequence to build well. So let me give you an
example of what I mean. So, what most people think
that rage in this debate between bitcoin and real estate
is well, bitcoin's better, No, real estate's better. Well, bitcoins
better because it's going up faster, it's going up at
fifty percent a year. Real estate is going to put
five percent a year. Yeah, but real estate we can
get we can get leverage because of debt and blah
blah blah. What they don't realize is that. And then
(07:54):
there's all this talk about this airbnb boom and all
these people bought real estate and they're turning into airbnbs.
But airbnb markets crashing and the home values are dropping
in Austin fifteen percent. All these people are said down,
they don't understand. You see what the wealthy do is
they don't buy real estate for cash flow. They buy
real estate for tax efficiency. So I was telling you
(08:17):
I bought this ranch property out in Austin, Texas, two
and a half million dollar property. That property is an
airbnb when I'm not there. I used it for events
when I'm out there. But that got me millions of
dollars of tax right off. I didn't have to pay
tax on millions of dollars because I bought that property.
What do I care if it drops by twenty or
(08:37):
thirty percent, I don't care. I got millions, right And
so people don't understand this. They look at it like that.
And so what happens is like, I'm working with this
hosted bitcoin mining company right now. We're not selling hosted
bitcoin mining, we're selling tax efficiency. What if I can
get double the bitcoin in two and a half years
(08:59):
and I get a hundred thousand dollars a ride off
at the same time. And so that's what I've talked
about with Layers, is like understanding it's not the asset
that I'm buying, it's how does it fit into my
picture and how do I use this in a portfolio
that then allows me to multiply wealth. Let me just
break this down. So I did a video on this. So, like,
if I were to put one hundred thousand dollars into
a whole life insurance policy compounding a five percent a year,
(09:22):
and then I borrow the money out at five percent
a year, isn't that a wash? No? Because one is compounding,
the other one is getting paid down. So I take
that one hundred thousand, I pull it out and I
reinvest it, reinvest it into what, Well, first of all,
over twenty years, that's going to make me fifty thousand dollars.
That's like a fifty percent return on my capital. Then
I take that one hundred thousand, and now I go
(09:43):
buy five hundred thousand dollars worth of real estate, which
potentially gets me back to the Napkin math four hundred
thousand dollars in tax right off. So I don't pay
tax on four hundred grand. That could be one hundred
and fifty thousand dollars based off of whatever an average salary.
Now I have a hundred fifty thousand dollars I didn't
I got to keep because I didn't pay that into taxes.
(10:04):
Right now, I put that one hundred fifty thousand dollars
into bitcoin, and in five years that's worth fifteen million dollars.
And I didn't make up penny more. Yeah, I didn't
increase my income. I didn't work harder. I could have
just put it into an index fund and it could
have grown a six or seven percent. But here I've
turned it into fifteen million. But that doesn't stop there.
Now that fifteen million, I can borrow against that, borrow
(10:24):
fifty percent LTV. I borrowed seven million out buy more
real estate, and I probably never paid tax again. And
so that's what I'm talking about in layers.
Speaker 2 (10:32):
Do you have a framework when it comes to layering
or is it just one of those It's like everyone's
a little bit different. For example, you talk about tax efficiency.
I know you're friends with Robert Kyosaki. In his book,
he's like, don't don't buy taxes just for taxes, buy
it for cash flow. What is your You know one
thing that makes Robert so iconic is he has the
cash flow quadrant. He has the you are financially free
when you have enough passive cash flow coming into So
(10:55):
what is your framework for layers? Because it sounds great.
I love whole life insurance. I know you do is well,
put money in that asset and leverage that to do
real estate. Is there like a one two three punch
for someone listening or watching that that are like maybe
first principles of like do this, then do this, then
do this.
Speaker 1 (11:12):
Yeah. Shout out to Robert Kyosaki. He was my mentor.
I read his books for twenty five years, as he's
become a friend and it was really him that made
me look deeper because I got to know him maybe
around twenty twenty or twenty twenty one. And in twenty
twenty one, California shutdown. It was COVID pandemic craziness, and
so we left and I went to Puerto Rico with
(11:33):
my family. And part of it was just because I
wasn't going to live locked down. Part of it was
like I'm a surfer. I love the island. But also
there's tax efficiency in Puerto Rico, right. And I remember
I was speaking at conferences, Robert was speaking at conferences,
and a couple couple times more than once, two or
three times from stage, he.
Speaker 2 (11:48):
Calls me out, it's cool.
Speaker 1 (11:50):
I want to take a break real quick and just
say that there's only so much you can learn through videos. Yeah,
build your knowledge, build your skills, but you need to
build your relationships or relationships plus skills equals money. So
come build your relationships and your knowledge at the Bitcoin
Conference May twenty seventh through twenty ninth in Las Vegas.
I'm gonna be there speaking for the fourth year in
a row, and lots of other people way bigger than me. Entertainment, politics, media, finance,
(12:14):
you name it, they'll be there, So come check it out.
Save some money with my code Mark Moss or I'll
put a link down below if you use my code
to save some money. I'm going to do a private
meetup just for you and some of my friends. So
let me know. Use that code, save some money, Send
me a message and we'll get you in the private
meetup and I hope to see you in Las Vegas.
Guys like Mark Moss and Peter Schiff have to move
(12:35):
to Puerto Rico to not pay taxes. He's like, I
don't pay taxes, and he would call me out, like
multiple times from stage, like what an idiot this guy is?
He had to move to get out of taxes. Don't
they know that we just don't pay taxes? And so
that made me go huh, like maybe I need to
look at this a little bit more, and uh, hanging
out with them, having dinners with him. I'm like, let's
(12:55):
break this down, like, what are we doing here, what's
the strategy whatever? Sting a shout out to Robert Kyosaki
and the framework, I would say, I guess maybe I
don't have a clearly defined framework as far as which
assets go into which ones because sort of like our
mutual friend Garrett Gunderson, it's like this investor DNA, so
as I said, maybe you don't like bitcoin, cool, like whatever,
don't don't get hung up on that. It's like Trump
(13:17):
derangement syndrome. Somebody can't see past that. Okay, let's put
a different asset in there. So looking at different assets differently,
but I think the order makes sense of one, set
up that base layer, it's right. Two. I use real
estate there because that's how we get rid of the taxes. Now,
there's other ways to do that, but like real estate
is the easiest way to get that leverage. Because what
(13:39):
people that are like, maybe they're they thinking like level
two or level three on this. They think they buy
things for tax write offs. But I mean I still
have to give up the money. What wealthy do is
I don't want to spend a dollar and write off
a dollar. I want to spend a dollar in write
off five dollars. I want to spend a dollar and
write off ten dollars. So then what allows me to
(14:00):
do that? Well, typically it would be things that I
can put leverage against. So real estate is one. I'm
working on bringing a product to market where we can
do loans against bitcoin mining equipment, and then I can
also get that leverage right off. Wealthy do other things
with collectibles, fine art, things like that, land conservations, things
(14:21):
like that. So there's other ways to get that. I mean,
Elon must did it with Tesla, you know, I sell
and carbon credits or tech you know, things like that.
So there are other ways, But what are the ways?
It all starts with a question, right, So it's like, Okay,
I set my base layer so I always have a
growing Then how do we get the tax efficiency? And
I know that I want three, five, ten dollars a
right off of every dollar I spend, So what gives
me those? Real Estate's just the most successful way for everybody.
Speaker 2 (14:44):
To do that.
Speaker 1 (14:45):
Now I keep more money, what do I do with
it next. Now you can put that in the S
and P five hundred. If that's you, maybe it's Tesla Nvidia.
For me, I think it's bitcoin because I don't think
there's any asset in the world that will outpace bitcoin.
Bitcoin is the cheat code, and so it certainly belongs
in our PORTFOLI the most bitcoiner. For say, just buy
bitcoin and don't do anything. And that's not a bad strategy.
You can just buy bitcoin and outperform every single Wall
(15:06):
Street hedge fund. You can just beat everybody just by bitcoin.
That's it. Just buy it. But because I want to
get better at everything, why not make three to five
hundred percent more and do it that way?
Speaker 2 (15:17):
Yeah, I wrote, build the foundation and then leverage for
text benefits and then for compounding.
Speaker 1 (15:24):
That's exactly right.
Speaker 2 (15:25):
I love that, all right, sell me on bitcoin. I
have a lot of a lot of the people that
watch this are into real estate, are business owners, and
understand the powerful life insurance, so they're maybe more sophisticated
than the average person. Bitcoin is one of those things
that I get a lot of questions on and I
have come I mean, I remember during COVID, I was like,
(15:46):
what is going on? And now it's over eighty thousand,
and there's people saying that it's that's only beginning. I
talked to someone last night that's like, put your money
in bitcoin.
Speaker 1 (15:57):
I think it has a ten X in front of
it in the next five years.
Speaker 2 (16:00):
Can help me understand break down them? Yeah's help me
understand bitcoin.
Speaker 1 (16:05):
So what happens is about every fifty years. For the
last three hundred years, we're on the sixth cycle. So
we have these cycles. They're about fifty year cycles that happened,
and I call them quantum wave cycles. Other people have
called them k waves or conjointive waves. You can look
them over. But basically, we have a technological revolution that
(16:27):
happens about every fifty years, and we get this cluster
of technologies that gives us new sets of building blocks
that we didn't have before. So the problem that humans
have is we're no good to imagine in the future
because we can only imagine better versions of what we
have today, but we don't imagine that we'll have different
building blocks to let us build different things. If you
have a deck of cards, what can you build a
deck of cards versus what can you build legos? Right,
(16:49):
So we had It all started with the Industrial Revolution.
We had mechanized machines for the first time, machines that
could do the work of five thousand men. Then we
had the steam engines and railways. Now we can move stuff,
and we had electricity, steel, heavy equipment. Now we can
build skyscrapers, bridges, electricity, obviously oil, oil fuels, automobiles, and
mass production. In nineteen oh eight nineteen seventy one the
(17:11):
birth of the microprocessor, which brought us to personal computers,
telecom internet, teach huge. These are all quantum leaps, and
now we're entering another one. And what bitcoin is this
new piece of technology. And the problem that we have
because we can't imagine the future very well. We try to.
Our brains are really comparing mechanisms, like, hey, this is heavy,
(17:32):
well heavy compared to what, right, So what is this electricity? Oh,
it's kind of like a digital candle. It gives us light. Well,
it was like a digital candle. That was a use
case for it, but of course electricity is so much
more than that today. So we think about what is bitcoin. Well,
it's sort of like these things. Well it is like that,
and it's like that, and it's like that it's like
but it's even more right. So right now bitcoin is falling.
(17:57):
It's a new piece of technology, and I want to
I want to try to explain it without going too deep.
You need a thousand hours. You can't borrow someone's conviction. Right,
But what we know is that we have this monetary
history and all types of different things have been money
throughout history. Feathers, rock, seashells, and eventually gold emerged as
(18:20):
the best form of money. So it's we understand that
money is an evolutionary path. So it starts as a collectible.
Look at this cool rock or feather or seashell. Look
at this baseball card, this Pokemon card. Now, some collectibles,
not all, but some evolve to the next stage, which
is a store of value. Some baseball cards or are
stores of value. Some wealthy people do store their wealth
(18:42):
or value in collectibles and fine art and things like that. Now,
if some have the right attributes, it could evolve maybe
to the next stage, which is a medium exchange. So
it needs to have the money attributes portable, divisible, durable, recognizable, saleable,
things like that. So like a mona lisa is terrible
because you can't divide it up. A cow could be,
but it's not fungible one part, like a ribbi is
(19:02):
different than a liver. Right. A banana would be terrible
because it's not durable. So gold emerged as that's the
best one, and it was the most scarce asset. But
the problem with gold is that that was great in
an industrial era. So really what happened is we had
this gold age. But in the fifteen hundred's, actually like
fourteen ninety eight, Luco Palliali in Florence, Italy created a
new piece of technology called the ledger in double entry accounting.
(19:25):
And because gold was too slow, how do I sell
it across the sea? How do we trade globally when
gold is so slow, big, heavy, dangerous to transport. So hey,
we have this new piece of technology called a ledger
or double enjoy accounting. So you give us the gold
and we'll just keep track of the ledger. And that's
basically the system that we're on today. The problem is
who controls the ledger, and so that's always been the problem.
(19:46):
So gold required all this centralization, and so what happened
is all the gold went in the banks. The banks
controlled the ledgers. But in nineteen thirty three, the United
States government seized all the gold from the people. And
part of the reason why they seized it is because
they were lying about the Lleger. They kept printing too
much paper debt and it wasn't tied to the dollar,
and they found themselves short. They owed a lot of gold,
(20:06):
and so they said, let's just take all the gold
is in the banks. And so gold is always going
to be susceptible to the same problem. It requires centralization
because we're not in this old industrial agency more. We're
an information age. And so today now transactions are at
the speed of light, transactions I can click. I have
this problem every time I think of something. I was
opened my Amazon app and it's like here today. Right,
(20:28):
But settlement is still from the fifteen hundreds. Settlement still
takes three to five days to get an ach credit
card into your bank. Isn't that wild? But it's not
even that. Final settlements really about ninety days to six months,
because someone could charge their credit card back final settlement.
Speaker 2 (20:46):
That's right.
Speaker 1 (20:47):
So we have this antiquated financial system. But more importantly,
not only is it antiquated, but it it's destructive. Right,
And so if you look at Chargers' website called wtf
Happened nineteen seventy one? And it shows it's just a
whole website full of charts. You'd love it. Just charts,
that's it. And it's every single chart with a line
at nineteen seventy one, and the homelessness rate boom, the
(21:10):
single mother birth rate boom, the obesity rate boom, the
incarceration rate boom. Certainly, our purchasing power going down. Home
price is going up, gas price, everything, all the price
is going up. But I laid out the destructive parts
of society, the single mother birth rates, the incarceration rates,
the divorce rates.
Speaker 2 (21:28):
Why going off the gold standard? Why did that have
that effect?
Speaker 1 (21:31):
Well, because when we got off of any tie to
sound money and started printing endless amounts of money, we
create inflation. So when we print money, it creates inflation,
which means that every time they print a dollar, my
existing dollar buys me less goods and services. So as
they printed more and more and more and more and
more and more, my dollar bought me less and less
and less and less and less. And so what happened
(21:51):
is on an average wage, where I used to be
able to buy the American dream, the house, to car,
the college education. Now today you can't. And so the
reason why the cost of everything went up is because
they kept printing more dollars. My dollars were buying less
of those things. But at the same time, the destruction
of society went down. Because what's the number one cause
of divorce money? One of the main causes of obesity
(22:14):
is I can't afford good food. I eat junk food.
Why do we have the incarceration going up? Well, now
I got to rob and steel. So it's not just
it's not just that things have gotten more expensive. It's
not just that my quality of life has gone down.
It's not that they've literally stole my life. So let's
think about this. Back just a few years ago, under
(22:36):
President Biden, we had but nine percent inflation. Now it
was probably twenty percent, but let's just call it the
nine What does that mean? That means for the average
person making thirty bucks an hour, they have to work
ten hours more per month just to have the same
quality of life that they had before, just to have
the sayd SA ten hours more per month, ten hours
(22:57):
that I could have spent with my kid, ten hours
I could spent with my wife. Ten hours I could
have spent on a side business. Ten hours I could
have been in the gym. They took my life, my
life hours. All of economics is built on the law
of scarcity. The most scarce sasset in the world is time.
That's what they took. But then we can see the
societal destruction of that. And I have to lay out
the problem because if you don't understand the problem, you
don't understand the solution. So now we have a way
(23:20):
to store our wealth, our value, our energy, our life
energy in an asset that can't be inflated away. So
bitcoin has a cap of only twenty one million, so
they can't print more of it. And on top of it,
they can't seize it, they can't manipulate it, they can't
steal it. And I can transmit it immediately, immediately for
(23:45):
almost free. Now people are like, oh, bitcoin's too slow
and it's too expensive. Okay, that's the twenty sixteen argument.
Get what the time is here? Like, I can send
bitcoin faster and cheaper than any any nails right now.
And by the way, in my setup of the problem,
faster money was not one of them those things. So
a lot of times we were like, oh but this
one's faster. Okay, so we needed faster money. That's the
(24:07):
cure to all our problem. So like, understand what the
problem is. So if you understand the solution, right, So
now we have a way that we can store a
value in a way that can't be taken from us
if you think about it right back to like energy, Right,
So if I dig a hole for four hours and
I can earn enough to like live for that day,
what if I worked an extra for us, I worked
eight hours, Well, now I could save so I have
some money. So tomorrow I don't have to work. I
(24:28):
have the money I could pay. So really, if I
think about that money, it's like my energy.
Speaker 2 (24:32):
It's like a battery like oxygen.
Speaker 1 (24:33):
Yeah, but it's like I think of like a battery, right,
it's store that energy so I can deploy that energy tomorrow.
I don't have to work. I don't want to. But
you don't want your battery to be leaking, like you
don't want to come out in the morning, and I
can't start your car, right, And so that's what happens
with with dollars. And most people know this by now,
Like you don't store your wealth and dollars people. People
understand this, It's okay, But biitoin is this revolution where
now I have this way that I can store it
(24:54):
in a way that can't be debased. And it's just
real simple. I say. One of the two greatest tricks
the FED ever played was one telling people that we
needed our money supply to always expand, and two that
asset prices going up is a good thing. Neither of
those are true. We don't need our money supply to
go up. Would you rather have your money buy you
more goods and service in the future or less? And
(25:14):
so when you have an inflated inflated money supply, it
always buys you less. A fix my supply buys you more.
So that's sort of the premise as to why bitcoin Now,
I'd like to tell you why bitcoin and not the
other ones?
Speaker 2 (25:27):
Yeah, because I'm writing down law of scarcity. This is
something that's that's that's big. And is that the difference
between gold and bitcoin or is it the ledger who
controls the ledgers?
Speaker 1 (25:39):
It's all three of those, right. So in order to
have the attributes of sound money, you need portable, divisible, durable,
recognizable things like that, right. Gold is very durable. I
can sit in the bottom of the ocean forever. It
doesn't corrode, right, you can break it down, melt it.
So gold worked really well and it's the most scarce
out of the money. That's why won over silver. But
it's not portable and it's not easily verifiable. So with gold,
(26:03):
how do I know what the purity is? The waight
is So they've had all types of coinage and they've
done all types of things, but like you know, China
had gold bars with that were tungsten painted as gold, right,
So like, how do I verify if the gold is real?
So gold is certainly the best, but it's not portable, okay,
and it's not verifiable very easily. I need like some
spectrometer or something to do that.
Speaker 2 (26:21):
Right.
Speaker 1 (26:22):
So gold is and it's the most scarce, but bitcoin
is more. So Bitcoin is more scarce, Bitcoin is more portable, right,
and bitcoin is more verifiable. Right, So that's that's why
it wins over that.
Speaker 2 (26:32):
Okay. So so now yeh dive into bitcoin over other
cryptocurrencies because even Trump the other day tweeted about it
was it back coin? Well that, but also like XRP
Solana he mentioned I don't know if you mentioned ethereum.
He mentioned it, and so all of those went.
Speaker 1 (26:50):
Up, they went up, and they went back down. So
when it comes to so first we could talk about
bitcoin in regards to real estate and all the other assets,
but let's talk about in regards to cryptocurrency. So you
need to put a thousand hours in, but I'm giving
you the crash course here. So, like what is bitcoin?
So instead of having one database, so like Facebook or
(27:12):
MySpace or Experience, they're in like a database and there's
like it's in a company and there's like a cybersecurity
team that tries to protect it. But every database is
basically been hacked. Right, so Experience was hacked. I mean
the NSA was hacked, right, but what happened. What bitcoin
is is that revolutionary technology that we've never seen before.
And what it is instead of having one database, it's
a decentralized ledger. So we now have a thousand or
(27:35):
a million or ten million ledgers. So if I had
a bank with a billion dollars, that's a pretty big target.
Someone might might want to go attack that. But if
I have a billion banks with one dollar each, and
so we have this new decentralized ledger. And what happens
is it's only decentralized if everybody can run one. So
the bitcoin database is very small. It's about shoot, I
(27:55):
don't know what it is right now, probably four five
hundred gigabytes. So that means a kid in Africa with
like a five year old now top could run a
bitcoin database. So anyone in the world could run it.
You could put it onto a thumb drive. Anyone in
the world could run a database, which means it stays decentralized.
And what happened is in the beginning, if five people
run it, or ten people run it, or on a
hundred people run it's not very strong because what happens
(28:16):
is the database has to achieve consensus, so I finally
have to take over ten nodes or fifteen nodes or
thirty nodes. That's doable. Then we have the mining, so
we have the node, the database layer, and then we
have the mining layer. The mining layer is the digital energy,
so that's what protects the network, that's what processes the transactions.
So the mining the hashing power is so big, and
then the database is so big, so you have to
(28:36):
take over over half of that to even have a chance,
and you still wouldn't do it, but we have to
have a chance. So what happened is bitcoin was creating
this wrinkle in time. It was we call it this
immaculate conception. We don't know who created who stitutional komotive is,
but it was creating this in this in this wrinkle
in time, but nobody knew what it was, and it
was allowed to grow in the wild for about a
decade until people realize what was going on, and at
(28:58):
that point it was too big to kill. The problem
is today is there's no way to do that again.
I mean people have tried, okay, because what happens is
all the other you mentioned Ethereum Ada is one, he
mentioned Cardano Solana. Those are all basically just centralized ledgers
over a couple nodes. And the reason why is because
(29:18):
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(30:22):
And so it's created this centralization and so only Bigoin
has done that. Now other people have tried to do
something similar, but the problem is now that we know
about it, it gets attacked immediately. People attack that, they'll double spend,
they'll steal money off of it, and so now nothing
can get big enough. It's kind of like when you
have an invasive species. A rabbit comes over to Australia
(30:44):
and they don't have a rabbit, or a fish comes
in we have this problem all over the US, like
muscles come in or a fish comes in, right, and
it takes over that habitat, and once it's taken over, like,
there's nothing else that can really come in and take that.
So Bitcoin sort of grew in the space and there's
just nothing else that can be there and that and
that's why nothing else And so you have to understand
the technical side of things. What we want is something
(31:06):
that nobody can control. Ethereum has changed their monetary supply
like three times in the last two or three.
Speaker 2 (31:11):
Years, a lot of scarcity. He goes out the window.
Speaker 1 (31:12):
And all these other coins, Cardano and xorp they have
something called governance. They all have governance. So what that
means is that they have staking. So whoever has the
most tokens stakes them and whoever has the most token
staked gets the most votes, and then they vote on
changes on the on the.
Speaker 2 (31:29):
Oup And none of that exists in bitcoin.
Speaker 1 (31:32):
There is no consensus. I mean, I'm sorry, there's no governance. Yeah,
it's it's rules, not rulers.
Speaker 2 (31:38):
Yeap. What are some of the biggest conspiracy theories when
it comes to like the fact that we don't actually
know who started bitcoin, and like, I'm going to ask
you to do something difficult, like play Devil's Advocate to like,
what are some of the biggest cons you think that
bitcoin has?
Speaker 1 (31:55):
Uh?
Speaker 2 (31:55):
Is it?
Speaker 1 (31:55):
Is it?
Speaker 2 (31:56):
Because I know a talking point back in the day
was like, it's going to get to a place where
it's going to be too hard to mine and it's
going to cost too much and energy. And I talked
to someone yesterday that says the amount of water that's
going to have to be used to cool down these machines.
And so you have some environmentalist people like what are
something None.
Speaker 1 (32:12):
Of that's true. Okay, none of that's true. I can
go through each one of those one by one. But
if you ask me, what is the biggest one today
that I can think of? Uh, the only threat that
bitcoin had, we've defeated all those narratives. Now we've even
defeated the what the government will make it illegal. We've
defeated that one as well. Obviously, right, Trump has now
created a strategic bitcoin reserve. It's in the US government.
(32:34):
He said that the US will be the bitcoin powerhouse
of the world. Like anyone who's not the government's going
to make it illegal, Like that's out the window too.
The biggest one is if if bitcoin can stay decentralized
and secure, that's just can it? If If as long
as it continue to stay decentralized and secure, that's it.
That's the biggest threat. Now, what would have to happen
(32:57):
for not to be trust me? Over the last seven
eight years, at all these conferences and events I speak at,
we stay up late at night playing game theory, and
I don't know the answer for that. Theoretically it's impossible.
But anything can happen, right, So possibilities are endless, Probabilities
(33:19):
are few, so the probability of that happening is very low.
But some of these things, let's talk about the energy
one for example. First of all, anyone who says that
argument should just be disregarded in the first place. And
here's why. And anyone who knows anything basic stuff knows
that the wealth of a nation comes from the amount
(33:39):
of energy they have. The poorest nations in the world
have no energy, like people in Africa whose kids die
every single day because they don't even have a hospital
or an incubator to put their baby in. Wealth of
nations comes from the energy they have. Energy is a
good thing, not a bad thing. So anyone who says
that rapt bactial just be disregarded. But they also don't
understand biquin either. So in order to make bitcoin mining profitable,
(34:02):
you need to have about three cents per killowod hour
power or less. Here in California in the summer, we
have a tiered system. At the top of the tier
is forty cents per kilowat hour. You can't mind bitcoin
in California. So if it's forty cents in California, why
would someone sell it for three? Well, the law of
(34:24):
supply and demand is not very basic, and it would
basically tell me the only reason why someone would sell
it for three is if they created the energy but
have no buyers for it. So what happens is the
way the energy system works, especially now they've completely screwed
up by putting unreliable power in there from wind and solar,
is that when I turn my switch on, I expect
electricity to come on. So we need to always have powers.
(34:47):
We have baseload, but we also have to be prepared
for peaks. It gets hot, everyone turns to AC on whatever.
So what happens is now in unreliable power, wind and solar.
Sometimes it's not windy and sometimes it's not sunny, and
so now we have this problem. And so they've been
building what they call peaker plants. They build an entire
other plant to be run in the event they need
more power. So we have this place all over the
(35:08):
world where power is being created but not being used.
That would be what I would call the definition of waste.
They say bitcoin is wasting energy. If you use something,
that's not a waste, but they're literally making energy and
not using it. That's a waste. And so bitcoin can
only operate on wasted energy, energy that's already been created
and is not being used. And once it starts being used,
(35:31):
the price starts going up. Competition goes to five cents,
seven cents, and bitcoin has to pack up and move
to another district where it's cheaper. And so yeah, anyone
who said that, first of all, they don't understand ergy
number two. They don't understand bitcoin at all. So I'd
say that, and yeah, who cares about that? But ultimately
I would just say, like bitcoin is the apex predator
(35:53):
of assets, and the reason why is because all the
forms of storing our capital today are five to seven
hundred years old. Stocks equities, right, how long ago was
that created? Right? The Dutch? The Dutch created a market,
you know, the stock market. So we have all these
different assets, and like real estate seems like a good asset,
(36:14):
but when you look at the maintenance and the property
taxes and understand what's going on with that, or gold,
Like where could you have put gold one hundred years
ago that would still be there today? Yeah, right, and
so then you look at okay, so then we can
go into an I'm just gonna throw this out there.
We don't have time to go down this rabbit hole.
But if you think about oil, oil is an asset.
(36:36):
Oil is a commodity. Bitcoin is an asset. Bitcoin's a commodity,
a commodity being different than in equity, a commodity being
that anyone anywhere in the world will get it right.
It's fungible matter where you get it right. There's no
common issuer, right, whether it's wheat or oranges or oil.
So bitcoin is that. But you have oil as an asset,
a commodity that sits around sixty to eighty bucks a
(36:56):
barrow for the last fifty years, so it buying oil
itself isn't necessarily the best thing. But there's an oil
industry that's the eighth largest industry in the world worth
four point eight trillion dollars. So who made the pressure
sensor for the oil pipeliner? Who made the sanar for
the oil tinker? Right? And so we have bitcoin, But
now we have this bitcoin asset. So when I talk
about energy systems, for example, bitcoin is now transforming our
(37:20):
energy grids across the entire world. So we haven't thought
about that. But if we just think about it from
assets specifically, and only store value assets, what are the
things that we're using currently to store our value? Real estate, bonds, equities, cash,
offshore bank accounts, fine art, collectible's gold. Right now today
(37:41):
that total is about nine hundred trillion dollars. Now that
pie continues to grow, So as we continue to pret
more money that grows at the rate that we're on,
that nine hundred trillion, by twenty thirty will be one
point three quadrillion total store value assets. And then you
just ask yourself, there's thirty to forty trillion in off
(38:02):
shore bank accounts. Is bitcoin better than that? Sure?
Speaker 2 (38:05):
You start lining it up and you're like Bitcoin is
superior over all this things.
Speaker 1 (38:08):
It's superior over all those stuff. It doesn't mean they
all go to zero. What it does mean is that
Uber is superior to taxis. Taxis are still there today,
but Uber pulled value. So we have from a venture
capital lens, we have disruptive technology. We look at the
market size that it's disrupting. We estimate what a percentage
we think we can capture from that industry. So Uber
and Airbnb both captured ten percent of their markets within
(38:31):
ten years. So then the question is, if bitcoin is
superior to all those other assets, what percentage of that
pie do we think is realistic to capture. If it
could capture one point five percent by twenty thirty, that
puts it at one million dollars per bitcoin. Wow, now
(38:51):
that's by twenty thirty, that's twenty five and that's less
than two percent, is less than to percent. That's twenty
years after it came out. Uber and Airbnb tod ten
percent ten years.
Speaker 2 (38:59):
So yeah, that's mark. You have a gift. I've I've
talked to lots of people and you laid it out
this better than I've ever heard before. So thank you.
Were times limited I can we rapid fire some things.
Speaker 1 (39:14):
Let's do it. U.
Speaker 2 (39:15):
I want to understand quickly about the government crypto reserve,
and like what what what that means?
Speaker 1 (39:20):
So the government crypto reserve. Trump is the master negotiator, YEA.
The Art of the Deal. He read it, he wrote it.
If you haven't read the book, just read it. And
so what one of the one of one tool that
you have in negotiating is something called anchoring. So you
throw out something big to anchor or or shift the
overton window as we call it. Right, So Trump throws
(39:41):
out crazy things and you think he's crazy nothing. By
the way, I just listened last night there's an interview
with Howard Lutnik from the All In, All In podcasts.
Have you listened to it?
Speaker 2 (39:51):
I have not listened to it, but it's.
Speaker 1 (39:52):
I saw everybody say it's the best interview in the world.
I watched it last night and I went, holy crap,
we have the very smartest people in the entire world.
Speaker 2 (40:01):
I've seen clips and it's it's pretty exciting.
Speaker 1 (40:03):
Wow. But anyway, and he puts he's known Trump for
thirty five years. He paints a picture of him. He
is not an idiot. Everything he says, is perfectly measured.
So he came out and said that, well, first in
the in the in the presidential run, you had burnt
uh or you had RFK Junior, sorry, still running at
that time, and he came to the Bitcoin conference said
he wanted to create a state biccoin reserve. Well, Trump,
(40:25):
not to be outdone, said well, I'll do that as well.
Obviously they're working together now, so we also have Senator
Lummis from Wyoming has already submitted a bill to also
create this in the government, and lots of people are
backing this. Now. What Trump did is he came out
and said, maybe it'll be a crypto asset reserve, and
maybe we'll do Cardano, when we'll do Solon and all
these things, and he just kind of threw out all
that crap and basically got everyone outraged. And not just everybody.
(40:48):
Brian Armstrong, the CEO of coinbase, which makes all its
money from people trading those assets, came out and said, whoa, whoa, whoa,
you can't do that. Only Bitcoin. The head of the
creator of Solana, came out and said, well even though
his coin that mentioned, he said, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa
we can't like, hang on, hang on, and so everyone's like, no, no,
just bitcoins is bitcoin. And then bitcoin went through and
they were very clear when it went through that it
(41:11):
is only bitcoin. Everything else will be looked at completely
ply different, will be treated completely different. And they made
this big differentiator line.
Speaker 2 (41:18):
Does that mean the US is just going to stockpile bitcoin?
Speaker 1 (41:22):
I mean, we don't know exactly, so the details of
it have not been fully fleshed out. So he said,
as of right now, any government owned bitcoin that we
have currently, which was about two hundred thousand or the
bide administration, but we believe that they've been secretly selling
it off. But whatever we have left on the books,
will we kept about two hundred thousand, it's about one
percent of the suppot. And then they are going to
(41:43):
create a plan to continue to buy more bitcoin. But
he called it in a budget neutral way. So what
can we do to get bitcoin without paying for it?
Because taxpayers may object to that? So could we trade
gold for it? You know, could we do it through terror?
What can we do in a budget neutral way? That's
what we don't know the details of that yet. But
when you listen to this interview of Howard Lutnik, who's running. Dude,
(42:05):
the guy is so smart. You have to listen to this.
But like he's he's he's helping. He's the Commerce Secretary,
so he's helping set up this the not only the
sovereign the Strategic bigcom Reserve, but the Sovereign Wealth Fund
and so both of those will have bitcoin. Let me
paint this picture for you. So Howard Lutnik, dude, listen
to this interview. The guy is so friggin smart. Yeah.
He owns a company called Cantor Fitzgerald. Right, it's a
(42:28):
billion dollar Wall Street fund, right, and he had the
top five floors of the World Trade Center. His company
got bombed out. Six hundred people that work for him died.
His company got destroyed. He rebuilt everything, so he's built
it from the ground up multiple times. Cantor Fitzgerald announced
that they are going to open up a two billion
dollars bitcoin equity facility or credit line, So basically institutions
(42:50):
don't have to sell the bitcoin and they can tap
into the equity. So that brings two billion dollars back
to the market. So Cantor Fitzgerald now is sitting in
the center of this of this bit of this bitcoin web,
let's call it. Well. Cantor Fitzgerald now also bought a
billion dollars in micro Strategy in Q four of last year,
just recently. Whoever's listening to this, you're not smarter than
(43:11):
Howard Lutnik, You're not smarter than him. He put a
billion dollars in mic strates. To all these people, Well,
micro strategy a scam, ponzi. Okay, you're not smarter than him.
They put a billion dollars that's like forty percent into
micro Strategy. On the other side, they invested into Tether.
Tether is the largest stable coin company in the world,
but that is putting their treasury into bitcoin as well.
So we have Lutnick, Cantor Fitzgerald, we have micro Strategy,
(43:35):
and we have Tether. Here now, in his role in
the government, he's creating the SBR and a Sovereign Wealth
Fund which will both be centered around bitcoin. Yep, And
you're bearish, like we have this. One of the smartest
guys in the world built multiple billions of dollars multiple
times running the government, building these operations and having his
(43:55):
money where his mouth is in three different companies that
are benefiting from this right, and it's made. I just
made this video on YouTube and I told Mauricio that
I felt bad now this morning because I watched that video.
I kind of said, like, hey, he's in the government,
he's pumping this thing up whatever, and it maybe looked
at maybe like made it look like a little scammy.
I didn't for it to be that way. But after
(44:17):
watching this video, the guy is so smart and he
is a true American patriot. Like, listen to video. He's
a true American patriot. And they're not doing it to
pump their bags. They're not doing it for that. They
realize it's the best asset in the world. Yeah, they
realized history. Right, So when China in the late eighteen
hundreds decided that they were going to stay with the
silver standard, when the whole world went to a gold standard,
(44:39):
she kind of lost their place in the world. And
it's taken them one hundred years to come back.
Speaker 2 (44:44):
Yeah, with the last two minutes, there's a lot of
questions I don't want to ask, but we are we
are the wealthiest country because of the American dollar. How
does crypto? Does crypto threat the US dollar? And then
let's land the plane because I know we have stop.
Speaker 1 (45:00):
Well, we're not just this, We're not just the wealthiest
country in the world from the US dollar. Howard Lutnik
put this into perspective. So you always hear about the
GDP of the country. You hear about the revenue of
the country. You're about the debt of the country. As
a business owner, there's still a number missing. So we
have thirty six trillion dollars in debt, We have twenty
(45:24):
nine trillion of GDP. We have six point five trillion
of spending. We have four point five trillion of revenue.
So you hear the revenue and spending where two trillion
dollar definite? That sounds terrible, right, But as a business owner,
there's one big number missing. What's the balance sheet? What's
the balance sheet of the United States? Estimated between five
hundred trillion to a quadrillion. That's the balance sheet. So
(45:50):
when you have a business guy like a Lutnik coming
and go, wait a minute, look at the ballance sheet.
We have five hundred trillion dollars of assets. What is
thirty six trillion dollar debt. We can balance the budget.
The debt is miniscool. We can monetize the balance sheet,
Like what are we doing here, guys? And so anyway
(46:10):
back to it's not just this because of the currency
we have the balance sheet anyway, So back to the
currency question. So the dollars reserve currency of the world.
I don't think anything is changing that. I did make
a video recently. So the Trumpet administration, the US government
is all in on creating the US dollar stable coins.
And so part of the reason why is the world
(46:31):
when I talk about the world Peru, Argentina, Lebanon, Turkey,
et cetera, they desperately want dollars because their currencies are
exploding all around them, but they're not able to get dollars.
Their countries keep them from doing that. So US dollars
stable coins have made it where they can easily get
to the US dollars. So the world desperately wants US dollars.
Bitcoin as much as I believe in it, and it's
(46:53):
the ten x in front, you should be buying it.
It's too volatile for the average person to be trying
to be trying to live their life on it. If
you have money you can put away for five years,
you should put in a bitcoin. But if I have
money that I'm trying to spend. I got to pay
my rent next week. It's too volatile. So the world
needs dollars, and I think the two complement each other
in a transitional period. So the US dollar stable coin
will get to the entire world. And then the government
(47:17):
also has another problem. The government needs people to buy treasuries.
So now we have vs. A V. We have the
world buying stable coins. Stable coins go into treasuries. So
I believe this will cementt the dollars position in the
world as the reserve currency. It will only become stronger
than it already is and will take over everything because
even countries with their own currencies the people want and dollars,
(47:40):
the stable coins will get it out there, and working
together with bitcoin and the dollars, it will cement that position.
Now we have all these things, we can store wealth
in gold and collectibles and fine art and all these things.
It doesn't take away from the dollar. Nobody thinks they
should be storing their wealth in the dollar.
Speaker 2 (47:57):
It's not a store of value.
Speaker 1 (47:58):
So we store our wealth in other things, and we
use the dollar to buy your coffee in the morning.
So I don't see how it really threatens the dollar
now over a long enough period of time, yes, I
believe that will happen by about twenty fifty or twenty
fifty five. Then there's a threat, but I think we
have the next thirty years in front of us. Mark.
Speaker 2 (48:14):
Thank you. I could talk to you for hours, and
we will put all your information, including I'm going to
ask you off camera, any resources on bitcoin that someone's like,
I'm sold, I want to learn more. We'll have that below.
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (48:25):
Yeah, thank you,
The way that the wealthy build wealth. They're using multiple
things in a proper sequence in order to invest through
layers to multiply their well five hundred times faster. I
could have just put it into an index fund and
it could have grown at six or seven percent. But
here I've turned it into fifteen million. But that doesn't
stop there. Now that fifteen million I can borrow against that.
Bitcoin is our single greatest weapon, not just to build
(00:24):
wealth for ourselves, just to change the world in a
massively positive way. If it could capture one point five
percent by twenty thirty, that puts it at one million
dollars per bitcoin. Wow, as twenty years after it came out,
Airbnb did ten percent. Ten years. Whoever's listening to this,
you're not smarter than Howard Lednik. He put a billion
dollars in microstrets. So all these people, well, micro strategy
(00:45):
to scamponzie. Okay, they put a billion dollars, that's like
forty percent into micro strategy. On the other side, they
invested into Tether. Tether is the largest stable coin company
in the world. And you're bearish, like, we have this.
One of the smartest guys in the world built multiple
millions of dollars multiple times, running the govern building these
operations and and and having his money where his mouth
is in three different companies that are benefiting from this. Right.
(01:05):
They're not doing it to pump their bags. They realize
it's the best asset in the world. Yeah, cru Argentina, Lebanon, Turkey,
et cetera. They desperately want dollars because their currencies are
exploding all around them, but they're not able to get dollars.
Their countries keep them from doing that. So US dollars
stable coins have made it where they can easily get
to the US dollars. So the world desperately wants US dollars,
(01:26):
so the US dollar stable coin will get to the
entire world. And then the government also has another problem,
the government these people to buy mark.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
Thank you, thank you so much for Lena, and may
use your studio and interview you man. Yeah, exciting, what
uh what are you most excited about right now in
this crazy time?
Speaker 1 (01:46):
Hmmm? What am I the most excited about? I'm so
excited in every part of my life. Let me let
me let me just back this up and then we'll
try to answer that question. I believe that all of
life is about the law of compounding, right, so Einstein
(02:06):
called the eighth wonder of the world. Those who know
it receive it, those who don't know what pay it.
But typically that's used. I'm sure you use that all
the time in regards to how an account compounds over
time and it doubles and things like that. But it's
not just about money. It's about every single part of life,
every single part of life. And so I built this
(02:27):
house down in Mexico, this really big house on the beach.
This guy came in. He went to do this home
automation for me. He'd never done a house this big,
is really outside of his reach, and he was hoping
that he could use my house to help him start
getting more high end clients. He did the worst job ever. Now,
if he would have done a really good job, I
would have recommend to all my neighbors. But because he
(02:48):
did such a horrible job, I'll tell all my neighbors
to never work with him. So instead of it compounding
one job gets some five jobs, five jobs gets some
twenty jobs, I'll make sure he never gets another job.
Not because I'm vindictive, but if my neighbors asked me
I have to say no. But it so if I
make a good YouTube video, people are more likely to
watch my next YouTube video. If I make a bad one,
they won't watch it again. But when it comes to learning,
(03:12):
it's also the same way. Like I'm in this space
where like I am just like voraciously trying to expand
into every value that I have. I want to be
like the ultimate best, not to be other people, but
just be a better version of myself. But in every area,
I want to work smarter, I want to do bigger deals,
i want to get more in shape, I want to
(03:34):
be a better father in every area. And that was
also the law of compounding as well. So it's like
I didn't always be I wasn't always like this, but
at one point I read a book. I was like, Wow,
that changed my life a little bit. What if I
read another one? What if I read another Oh my gosh,
what if I read what if I hired this coach?
Oh my gosh, what if I And like over time,
and so now I'm at this point in my life
(03:55):
right now where it's like I'm just like so excited
for every single part because every single part of my
life is just maximizing and then they start to compound
on each other. Right, So, now what I'm doing in
the gym, the discipline I'm building the gym, the way
I've tweaked my diet to give me maximum energy all day,
then goes into my work and my clarity. So I'm
super excited about a lot of things because that, as
(04:16):
you can tell, I would say, ultimately, one big thing
that I'm really focused on is the law of compounding.
I started making YouTube videos about seven eight years ago,
and I didn't want to. My partner at the time
forced me to, like we were going to break up.
Our business would fall apart if I didn't, And here
we are the law of compounding. My reach has gotten
(04:37):
to the point, you know, they got one hundred million
views or whatever, and the doors that has opened up
because of that, the law of compounding, the relationships that
I've built, and now like the it I'm starting to
see the impact that I'm making on people's lives through
the coaching consulting programs like real serious change, but also
(04:58):
like now I have like companies coming to me. I
have like a publicly traded company that I just launched
I'm an officer of. I have other companies that are
giving me equity to help them, and so it's like
my pursuit of growth being better every day has now compounded,
and I see this ripple effect. And so now I'm
(05:18):
coaching and consulting people on a weekly basis. I have
people coming into my studio this week to help them,
and I see the impact of that. So I'm super
excited about that. But then I see my reach even
going into businesses and companies and helping them, and so
that's what I'm the most excited about. So it's like
almost like my pursuit of leveling up is now compounded
into other people's lives and even businesses, and it's just
(05:39):
amazing to see.
Speaker 2 (05:40):
Yeah, I'm hoping to get a mini master class on
your thoughts about bitcoin and economics and just how Trump's doing.
But before that, you've been talking about building wealth and layers,
and I would just love to hear you articulate that.
And you know, because people come to you all over
the place to learn how to build wealth, and you're
although you're fan of bitcoin and some other things, you
(06:01):
also can look you can take a step back and
look holistically at the situation.
Speaker 1 (06:05):
Well, I'm mostly known for my work in bitcoin, I
got started making content around cryptocurrency. Now it's just bitcoin,
that crypto, but I started my career in real estate.
So it's like I've been an investor through multiple markets,
through multiple assets, and I'd say, certainly, I think that
bitcoin is the cheat code. Bitcoin is our single greatest weapon,
not just to build wealth for ourselves, which it is,
(06:27):
and we'll break that down, but to change the world
in a massively positive way. So it's the cheat code
for life for us individually and as a as a
as a world. But also like whether you'd like bitcoin
or not, put that, put that aside. Whether you like
real estate, okay, like whatever, there's this raging debate in
the bitcoin circles, like real estate or bitcoin, which one's better.
(06:48):
Maybe you're a Dave Ramsey fan and you think you
should just go into mutual funds and index funds like okay, fine,
Like choose your weapon. But the way that the wealthy
build wealth, and part of me building out this network
is getting access to people like this to see these
things is that it doesn't matter. They're not trying to
choose the best. They're using multiple things in a proper
(07:10):
sequence and order to invest through layers to multiply their
well three hundred five times, five hundred times faster. And
so whether you like bitcoin or don't, or whether you
like index funds are don't, or whether whether you like
real estate or not, that's not the point. It's how
do I use multiple assets understanding what we're really doing
with them, and using them in the proper order and
(07:31):
sequence to build well. So let me give you an
example of what I mean. So, what most people think
that rage in this debate between bitcoin and real estate
is well, bitcoin's better, No, real estate's better. Well, bitcoins
better because it's going up faster, it's going up at
fifty percent a year. Real estate is going to put
five percent a year. Yeah, but real estate we can
get we can get leverage because of debt and blah
blah blah. What they don't realize is that. And then
(07:54):
there's all this talk about this airbnb boom and all
these people bought real estate and they're turning into airbnbs.
But airbnb markets crashing and the home values are dropping
in Austin fifteen percent. All these people are said down,
they don't understand. You see what the wealthy do is
they don't buy real estate for cash flow. They buy
real estate for tax efficiency. So I was telling you
(08:17):
I bought this ranch property out in Austin, Texas, two
and a half million dollar property. That property is an
airbnb when I'm not there. I used it for events
when I'm out there. But that got me millions of
dollars of tax right off. I didn't have to pay
tax on millions of dollars because I bought that property.
What do I care if it drops by twenty or
(08:37):
thirty percent, I don't care. I got millions, right And
so people don't understand this. They look at it like that.
And so what happens is like, I'm working with this
hosted bitcoin mining company right now. We're not selling hosted
bitcoin mining, we're selling tax efficiency. What if I can
get double the bitcoin in two and a half years
(08:59):
and I get a hundred thousand dollars a ride off
at the same time. And so that's what I've talked
about with Layers, is like understanding it's not the asset
that I'm buying, it's how does it fit into my
picture and how do I use this in a portfolio
that then allows me to multiply wealth. Let me just
break this down. So I did a video on this. So, like,
if I were to put one hundred thousand dollars into
a whole life insurance policy compounding a five percent a year,
(09:22):
and then I borrow the money out at five percent
a year, isn't that a wash? No? Because one is compounding,
the other one is getting paid down. So I take
that one hundred thousand, I pull it out and I
reinvest it, reinvest it into what, Well, first of all,
over twenty years, that's going to make me fifty thousand dollars.
That's like a fifty percent return on my capital. Then
I take that one hundred thousand, and now I go
(09:43):
buy five hundred thousand dollars worth of real estate, which
potentially gets me back to the Napkin math four hundred
thousand dollars in tax right off. So I don't pay
tax on four hundred grand. That could be one hundred
and fifty thousand dollars based off of whatever an average salary.
Now I have a hundred fifty thousand dollars I didn't
I got to keep because I didn't pay that into taxes.
(10:04):
Right now, I put that one hundred fifty thousand dollars
into bitcoin, and in five years that's worth fifteen million dollars.
And I didn't make up penny more. Yeah, I didn't
increase my income. I didn't work harder. I could have
just put it into an index fund and it could
have grown a six or seven percent. But here I've
turned it into fifteen million. But that doesn't stop there.
Now that fifteen million, I can borrow against that, borrow
(10:24):
fifty percent LTV. I borrowed seven million out buy more
real estate, and I probably never paid tax again. And
so that's what I'm talking about in layers.
Speaker 2 (10:32):
Do you have a framework when it comes to layering
or is it just one of those It's like everyone's
a little bit different. For example, you talk about tax efficiency.
I know you're friends with Robert Kyosaki. In his book,
he's like, don't don't buy taxes just for taxes, buy
it for cash flow. What is your You know one
thing that makes Robert so iconic is he has the
cash flow quadrant. He has the you are financially free
when you have enough passive cash flow coming into So
(10:55):
what is your framework for layers? Because it sounds great.
I love whole life insurance. I know you do is well,
put money in that asset and leverage that to do
real estate. Is there like a one two three punch
for someone listening or watching that that are like maybe
first principles of like do this, then do this, then
do this.
Speaker 1 (11:12):
Yeah. Shout out to Robert Kyosaki. He was my mentor.
I read his books for twenty five years, as he's
become a friend and it was really him that made
me look deeper because I got to know him maybe
around twenty twenty or twenty twenty one. And in twenty
twenty one, California shutdown. It was COVID pandemic craziness, and
so we left and I went to Puerto Rico with
(11:33):
my family. And part of it was just because I
wasn't going to live locked down. Part of it was
like I'm a surfer. I love the island. But also
there's tax efficiency in Puerto Rico, right. And I remember
I was speaking at conferences, Robert was speaking at conferences,
and a couple couple times more than once, two or
three times from stage, he.
Speaker 2 (11:48):
Calls me out, it's cool.
Speaker 1 (11:50):
I want to take a break real quick and just
say that there's only so much you can learn through videos. Yeah,
build your knowledge, build your skills, but you need to
build your relationships or relationships plus skills equals money. So
come build your relationships and your knowledge at the Bitcoin
Conference May twenty seventh through twenty ninth in Las Vegas.
I'm gonna be there speaking for the fourth year in
a row, and lots of other people way bigger than me. Entertainment, politics, media, finance,
(12:14):
you name it, they'll be there, So come check it out.
Save some money with my code Mark Moss or I'll
put a link down below if you use my code
to save some money. I'm going to do a private
meetup just for you and some of my friends. So
let me know. Use that code, save some money, Send
me a message and we'll get you in the private
meetup and I hope to see you in Las Vegas.
Guys like Mark Moss and Peter Schiff have to move
(12:35):
to Puerto Rico to not pay taxes. He's like, I
don't pay taxes, and he would call me out, like
multiple times from stage, like what an idiot this guy is?
He had to move to get out of taxes. Don't
they know that we just don't pay taxes? And so
that made me go huh, like maybe I need to
look at this a little bit more, and uh, hanging
out with them, having dinners with him. I'm like, let's
(12:55):
break this down, like, what are we doing here, what's
the strategy whatever? Sting a shout out to Robert Kyosaki
and the framework, I would say, I guess maybe I
don't have a clearly defined framework as far as which
assets go into which ones because sort of like our
mutual friend Garrett Gunderson, it's like this investor DNA, so
as I said, maybe you don't like bitcoin, cool, like whatever,
don't don't get hung up on that. It's like Trump
(13:17):
derangement syndrome. Somebody can't see past that. Okay, let's put
a different asset in there. So looking at different assets differently,
but I think the order makes sense of one, set
up that base layer, it's right. Two. I use real
estate there because that's how we get rid of the taxes. Now,
there's other ways to do that, but like real estate
is the easiest way to get that leverage. Because what
(13:39):
people that are like, maybe they're they thinking like level
two or level three on this. They think they buy
things for tax write offs. But I mean I still
have to give up the money. What wealthy do is
I don't want to spend a dollar and write off
a dollar. I want to spend a dollar in write
off five dollars. I want to spend a dollar and
write off ten dollars. So then what allows me to
(14:00):
do that? Well, typically it would be things that I
can put leverage against. So real estate is one. I'm
working on bringing a product to market where we can
do loans against bitcoin mining equipment, and then I can
also get that leverage right off. Wealthy do other things
with collectibles, fine art, things like that, land conservations, things
(14:21):
like that. So there's other ways to get that. I mean,
Elon must did it with Tesla, you know, I sell
and carbon credits or tech you know, things like that.
So there are other ways, But what are the ways?
It all starts with a question, right, So it's like, Okay,
I set my base layer so I always have a
growing Then how do we get the tax efficiency? And
I know that I want three, five, ten dollars a
right off of every dollar I spend, So what gives
me those? Real Estate's just the most successful way for everybody.
Speaker 2 (14:44):
To do that.
Speaker 1 (14:45):
Now I keep more money, what do I do with
it next. Now you can put that in the S
and P five hundred. If that's you, maybe it's Tesla Nvidia.
For me, I think it's bitcoin because I don't think
there's any asset in the world that will outpace bitcoin.
Bitcoin is the cheat code, and so it certainly belongs
in our PORTFOLI the most bitcoiner. For say, just buy
bitcoin and don't do anything. And that's not a bad strategy.
You can just buy bitcoin and outperform every single Wall
(15:06):
Street hedge fund. You can just beat everybody just by bitcoin.
That's it. Just buy it. But because I want to
get better at everything, why not make three to five
hundred percent more and do it that way?
Speaker 2 (15:17):
Yeah, I wrote, build the foundation and then leverage for
text benefits and then for compounding.
Speaker 1 (15:24):
That's exactly right.
Speaker 2 (15:25):
I love that, all right, sell me on bitcoin. I
have a lot of a lot of the people that
watch this are into real estate, are business owners, and
understand the powerful life insurance, so they're maybe more sophisticated
than the average person. Bitcoin is one of those things
that I get a lot of questions on and I
have come I mean, I remember during COVID, I was like,
(15:46):
what is going on? And now it's over eighty thousand,
and there's people saying that it's that's only beginning. I
talked to someone last night that's like, put your money
in bitcoin.
Speaker 1 (15:57):
I think it has a ten X in front of
it in the next five years.
Speaker 2 (16:00):
Can help me understand break down them? Yeah's help me
understand bitcoin.
Speaker 1 (16:05):
So what happens is about every fifty years. For the
last three hundred years, we're on the sixth cycle. So
we have these cycles. They're about fifty year cycles that happened,
and I call them quantum wave cycles. Other people have
called them k waves or conjointive waves. You can look
them over. But basically, we have a technological revolution that
(16:27):
happens about every fifty years, and we get this cluster
of technologies that gives us new sets of building blocks
that we didn't have before. So the problem that humans
have is we're no good to imagine in the future
because we can only imagine better versions of what we
have today, but we don't imagine that we'll have different
building blocks to let us build different things. If you
have a deck of cards, what can you build a
deck of cards versus what can you build legos? Right,
(16:49):
So we had It all started with the Industrial Revolution.
We had mechanized machines for the first time, machines that
could do the work of five thousand men. Then we
had the steam engines and railways. Now we can move stuff,
and we had electricity, steel, heavy equipment. Now we can
build skyscrapers, bridges, electricity, obviously oil, oil fuels, automobiles, and
mass production. In nineteen oh eight nineteen seventy one the
(17:11):
birth of the microprocessor, which brought us to personal computers,
telecom internet, teach huge. These are all quantum leaps, and
now we're entering another one. And what bitcoin is this
new piece of technology. And the problem that we have
because we can't imagine the future very well. We try to.
Our brains are really comparing mechanisms, like, hey, this is heavy,
(17:32):
well heavy compared to what, right, So what is this electricity? Oh,
it's kind of like a digital candle. It gives us light. Well,
it was like a digital candle. That was a use
case for it, but of course electricity is so much
more than that today. So we think about what is bitcoin. Well,
it's sort of like these things. Well it is like that,
and it's like that, and it's like that it's like
but it's even more right. So right now bitcoin is falling.
(17:57):
It's a new piece of technology, and I want to
I want to try to explain it without going too deep.
You need a thousand hours. You can't borrow someone's conviction. Right,
But what we know is that we have this monetary
history and all types of different things have been money
throughout history. Feathers, rock, seashells, and eventually gold emerged as
(18:20):
the best form of money. So it's we understand that
money is an evolutionary path. So it starts as a collectible.
Look at this cool rock or feather or seashell. Look
at this baseball card, this Pokemon card. Now, some collectibles,
not all, but some evolve to the next stage, which
is a store of value. Some baseball cards or are
stores of value. Some wealthy people do store their wealth
(18:42):
or value in collectibles and fine art and things like that. Now,
if some have the right attributes, it could evolve maybe
to the next stage, which is a medium exchange. So
it needs to have the money attributes portable, divisible, durable, recognizable, saleable,
things like that. So like a mona lisa is terrible
because you can't divide it up. A cow could be,
but it's not fungible one part, like a ribbi is
(19:02):
different than a liver. Right. A banana would be terrible
because it's not durable. So gold emerged as that's the
best one, and it was the most scarce asset. But
the problem with gold is that that was great in
an industrial era. So really what happened is we had
this gold age. But in the fifteen hundred's, actually like
fourteen ninety eight, Luco Palliali in Florence, Italy created a
new piece of technology called the ledger in double entry accounting.
(19:25):
And because gold was too slow, how do I sell
it across the sea? How do we trade globally when
gold is so slow, big, heavy, dangerous to transport. So hey,
we have this new piece of technology called a ledger
or double enjoy accounting. So you give us the gold
and we'll just keep track of the ledger. And that's
basically the system that we're on today. The problem is
who controls the ledger, and so that's always been the problem.
(19:46):
So gold required all this centralization, and so what happened
is all the gold went in the banks. The banks
controlled the ledgers. But in nineteen thirty three, the United
States government seized all the gold from the people. And
part of the reason why they seized it is because
they were lying about the Lleger. They kept printing too
much paper debt and it wasn't tied to the dollar,
and they found themselves short. They owed a lot of gold,
(20:06):
and so they said, let's just take all the gold
is in the banks. And so gold is always going
to be susceptible to the same problem. It requires centralization
because we're not in this old industrial agency more. We're
an information age. And so today now transactions are at
the speed of light, transactions I can click. I have
this problem every time I think of something. I was
opened my Amazon app and it's like here today. Right,
(20:28):
But settlement is still from the fifteen hundreds. Settlement still
takes three to five days to get an ach credit
card into your bank. Isn't that wild? But it's not
even that. Final settlements really about ninety days to six months,
because someone could charge their credit card back final settlement.
Speaker 2 (20:46):
That's right.
Speaker 1 (20:47):
So we have this antiquated financial system. But more importantly,
not only is it antiquated, but it it's destructive. Right,
And so if you look at Chargers' website called wtf
Happened nineteen seventy one? And it shows it's just a
whole website full of charts. You'd love it. Just charts,
that's it. And it's every single chart with a line
at nineteen seventy one, and the homelessness rate boom, the
(21:10):
single mother birth rate boom, the obesity rate boom, the
incarceration rate boom. Certainly, our purchasing power going down. Home
price is going up, gas price, everything, all the price
is going up. But I laid out the destructive parts
of society, the single mother birth rates, the incarceration rates,
the divorce rates.
Speaker 2 (21:28):
Why going off the gold standard? Why did that have
that effect?
Speaker 1 (21:31):
Well, because when we got off of any tie to
sound money and started printing endless amounts of money, we
create inflation. So when we print money, it creates inflation,
which means that every time they print a dollar, my
existing dollar buys me less goods and services. So as
they printed more and more and more and more and
more and more, my dollar bought me less and less
and less and less and less. And so what happened
(21:51):
is on an average wage, where I used to be
able to buy the American dream, the house, to car,
the college education. Now today you can't. And so the
reason why the cost of everything went up is because
they kept printing more dollars. My dollars were buying less
of those things. But at the same time, the destruction
of society went down. Because what's the number one cause
of divorce money? One of the main causes of obesity
(22:14):
is I can't afford good food. I eat junk food.
Why do we have the incarceration going up? Well, now
I got to rob and steel. So it's not just
it's not just that things have gotten more expensive. It's
not just that my quality of life has gone down.
It's not that they've literally stole my life. So let's
think about this. Back just a few years ago, under
(22:36):
President Biden, we had but nine percent inflation. Now it
was probably twenty percent, but let's just call it the
nine What does that mean? That means for the average
person making thirty bucks an hour, they have to work
ten hours more per month just to have the same
quality of life that they had before, just to have
the sayd SA ten hours more per month, ten hours
(22:57):
that I could have spent with my kid, ten hours
I could spent with my wife. Ten hours I could
have spent on a side business. Ten hours I could
have been in the gym. They took my life, my
life hours. All of economics is built on the law
of scarcity. The most scarce sasset in the world is time.
That's what they took. But then we can see the
societal destruction of that. And I have to lay out
the problem because if you don't understand the problem, you
don't understand the solution. So now we have a way
(23:20):
to store our wealth, our value, our energy, our life
energy in an asset that can't be inflated away. So
bitcoin has a cap of only twenty one million, so
they can't print more of it. And on top of it,
they can't seize it, they can't manipulate it, they can't
steal it. And I can transmit it immediately, immediately for
(23:45):
almost free. Now people are like, oh, bitcoin's too slow
and it's too expensive. Okay, that's the twenty sixteen argument.
Get what the time is here? Like, I can send
bitcoin faster and cheaper than any any nails right now.
And by the way, in my setup of the problem,
faster money was not one of them those things. So
a lot of times we were like, oh but this
one's faster. Okay, so we needed faster money. That's the
(24:07):
cure to all our problem. So like, understand what the
problem is. So if you understand the solution, right, So
now we have a way that we can store a
value in a way that can't be taken from us
if you think about it right back to like energy, Right,
So if I dig a hole for four hours and
I can earn enough to like live for that day,
what if I worked an extra for us, I worked
eight hours, Well, now I could save so I have
some money. So tomorrow I don't have to work. I
(24:28):
have the money I could pay. So really, if I
think about that money, it's like my energy.
Speaker 2 (24:32):
It's like a battery like oxygen.
Speaker 1 (24:33):
Yeah, but it's like I think of like a battery, right,
it's store that energy so I can deploy that energy tomorrow.
I don't have to work. I don't want to. But
you don't want your battery to be leaking, like you
don't want to come out in the morning, and I
can't start your car, right, And so that's what happens
with with dollars. And most people know this by now,
Like you don't store your wealth and dollars people. People
understand this, It's okay, But biitoin is this revolution where
now I have this way that I can store it
(24:54):
in a way that can't be debased. And it's just
real simple. I say. One of the two greatest tricks
the FED ever played was one telling people that we
needed our money supply to always expand, and two that
asset prices going up is a good thing. Neither of
those are true. We don't need our money supply to
go up. Would you rather have your money buy you
more goods and service in the future or less? And
(25:14):
so when you have an inflated inflated money supply, it
always buys you less. A fix my supply buys you more.
So that's sort of the premise as to why bitcoin Now,
I'd like to tell you why bitcoin and not the
other ones?
Speaker 2 (25:27):
Yeah, because I'm writing down law of scarcity. This is
something that's that's that's big. And is that the difference
between gold and bitcoin or is it the ledger who
controls the ledgers?
Speaker 1 (25:39):
It's all three of those, right. So in order to
have the attributes of sound money, you need portable, divisible, durable,
recognizable things like that, right. Gold is very durable. I
can sit in the bottom of the ocean forever. It
doesn't corrode, right, you can break it down, melt it.
So gold worked really well and it's the most scarce
out of the money. That's why won over silver. But
it's not portable and it's not easily verifiable. So with gold,
(26:03):
how do I know what the purity is? The waight
is So they've had all types of coinage and they've
done all types of things, but like you know, China
had gold bars with that were tungsten painted as gold, right,
So like, how do I verify if the gold is real?
So gold is certainly the best, but it's not portable, okay,
and it's not verifiable very easily. I need like some
spectrometer or something to do that.
Speaker 2 (26:21):
Right.
Speaker 1 (26:22):
So gold is and it's the most scarce, but bitcoin
is more. So Bitcoin is more scarce, Bitcoin is more portable, right,
and bitcoin is more verifiable. Right, So that's that's why
it wins over that.
Speaker 2 (26:32):
Okay. So so now yeh dive into bitcoin over other
cryptocurrencies because even Trump the other day tweeted about it
was it back coin? Well that, but also like XRP
Solana he mentioned I don't know if you mentioned ethereum.
He mentioned it, and so all of those went.
Speaker 1 (26:50):
Up, they went up, and they went back down. So
when it comes to so first we could talk about
bitcoin in regards to real estate and all the other assets,
but let's talk about in regards to cryptocurrency. So you
need to put a thousand hours in, but I'm giving
you the crash course here. So, like what is bitcoin?
So instead of having one database, so like Facebook or
(27:12):
MySpace or Experience, they're in like a database and there's
like it's in a company and there's like a cybersecurity
team that tries to protect it. But every database is
basically been hacked. Right, so Experience was hacked. I mean
the NSA was hacked, right, but what happened. What bitcoin
is is that revolutionary technology that we've never seen before.
And what it is instead of having one database, it's
a decentralized ledger. So we now have a thousand or
(27:35):
a million or ten million ledgers. So if I had
a bank with a billion dollars, that's a pretty big target.
Someone might might want to go attack that. But if
I have a billion banks with one dollar each, and
so we have this new decentralized ledger. And what happens
is it's only decentralized if everybody can run one. So
the bitcoin database is very small. It's about shoot, I
(27:55):
don't know what it is right now, probably four five
hundred gigabytes. So that means a kid in Africa with
like a five year old now top could run a
bitcoin database. So anyone in the world could run it.
You could put it onto a thumb drive. Anyone in
the world could run a database, which means it stays decentralized.
And what happened is in the beginning, if five people
run it, or ten people run it, or on a
hundred people run it's not very strong because what happens
(28:16):
is the database has to achieve consensus, so I finally
have to take over ten nodes or fifteen nodes or
thirty nodes. That's doable. Then we have the mining, so
we have the node, the database layer, and then we
have the mining layer. The mining layer is the digital energy,
so that's what protects the network, that's what processes the transactions.
So the mining the hashing power is so big, and
then the database is so big, so you have to
(28:36):
take over over half of that to even have a chance,
and you still wouldn't do it, but we have to
have a chance. So what happened is bitcoin was creating
this wrinkle in time. It was we call it this
immaculate conception. We don't know who created who stitutional komotive is,
but it was creating this in this in this wrinkle
in time, but nobody knew what it was, and it
was allowed to grow in the wild for about a
decade until people realize what was going on, and at
(28:58):
that point it was too big to kill. The problem
is today is there's no way to do that again.
I mean people have tried, okay, because what happens is
all the other you mentioned Ethereum Ada is one, he
mentioned Cardano Solana. Those are all basically just centralized ledgers
over a couple nodes. And the reason why is because
(29:18):
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(30:22):
And so it's created this centralization and so only Bigoin
has done that. Now other people have tried to do
something similar, but the problem is now that we know
about it, it gets attacked immediately. People attack that, they'll double spend,
they'll steal money off of it, and so now nothing
can get big enough. It's kind of like when you
have an invasive species. A rabbit comes over to Australia
(30:44):
and they don't have a rabbit, or a fish comes
in we have this problem all over the US, like
muscles come in or a fish comes in, right, and
it takes over that habitat, and once it's taken over, like,
there's nothing else that can really come in and take that.
So Bitcoin sort of grew in the space and there's
just nothing else that can be there and that and
that's why nothing else And so you have to understand
the technical side of things. What we want is something
(31:06):
that nobody can control. Ethereum has changed their monetary supply
like three times in the last two or three.
Speaker 2 (31:11):
Years, a lot of scarcity. He goes out the window.
Speaker 1 (31:12):
And all these other coins, Cardano and xorp they have
something called governance. They all have governance. So what that
means is that they have staking. So whoever has the
most tokens stakes them and whoever has the most token
staked gets the most votes, and then they vote on
changes on the on the.
Speaker 2 (31:29):
Oup And none of that exists in bitcoin.
Speaker 1 (31:32):
There is no consensus. I mean, I'm sorry, there's no governance. Yeah,
it's it's rules, not rulers.
Speaker 2 (31:38):
Yeap. What are some of the biggest conspiracy theories when
it comes to like the fact that we don't actually
know who started bitcoin, and like, I'm going to ask
you to do something difficult, like play Devil's Advocate to like,
what are some of the biggest cons you think that
bitcoin has?
Speaker 1 (31:55):
Uh?
Speaker 2 (31:55):
Is it?
Speaker 1 (31:55):
Is it?
Speaker 2 (31:56):
Because I know a talking point back in the day
was like, it's going to get to a place where
it's going to be too hard to mine and it's
going to cost too much and energy. And I talked
to someone yesterday that says the amount of water that's
going to have to be used to cool down these machines.
And so you have some environmentalist people like what are
something None.
Speaker 1 (32:12):
Of that's true. Okay, none of that's true. I can
go through each one of those one by one. But
if you ask me, what is the biggest one today
that I can think of? Uh, the only threat that
bitcoin had, we've defeated all those narratives. Now we've even
defeated the what the government will make it illegal. We've
defeated that one as well. Obviously, right, Trump has now
created a strategic bitcoin reserve. It's in the US government.
(32:34):
He said that the US will be the bitcoin powerhouse
of the world. Like anyone who's not the government's going
to make it illegal, Like that's out the window too.
The biggest one is if if bitcoin can stay decentralized
and secure, that's just can it? If If as long
as it continue to stay decentralized and secure, that's it.
That's the biggest threat. Now, what would have to happen
(32:57):
for not to be trust me? Over the last seven
eight years, at all these conferences and events I speak at,
we stay up late at night playing game theory, and
I don't know the answer for that. Theoretically it's impossible.
But anything can happen, right, So possibilities are endless, Probabilities
(33:19):
are few, so the probability of that happening is very low.
But some of these things, let's talk about the energy
one for example. First of all, anyone who says that
argument should just be disregarded in the first place. And
here's why. And anyone who knows anything basic stuff knows
that the wealth of a nation comes from the amount
(33:39):
of energy they have. The poorest nations in the world
have no energy, like people in Africa whose kids die
every single day because they don't even have a hospital
or an incubator to put their baby in. Wealth of
nations comes from the energy they have. Energy is a
good thing, not a bad thing. So anyone who says
that rapt bactial just be disregarded. But they also don't
understand biquin either. So in order to make bitcoin mining profitable,
(34:02):
you need to have about three cents per killowod hour
power or less. Here in California in the summer, we
have a tiered system. At the top of the tier
is forty cents per kilowat hour. You can't mind bitcoin
in California. So if it's forty cents in California, why
would someone sell it for three? Well, the law of
(34:24):
supply and demand is not very basic, and it would
basically tell me the only reason why someone would sell
it for three is if they created the energy but
have no buyers for it. So what happens is the
way the energy system works, especially now they've completely screwed
up by putting unreliable power in there from wind and solar,
is that when I turn my switch on, I expect
electricity to come on. So we need to always have powers.
(34:47):
We have baseload, but we also have to be prepared
for peaks. It gets hot, everyone turns to AC on whatever.
So what happens is now in unreliable power, wind and solar.
Sometimes it's not windy and sometimes it's not sunny, and
so now we have this problem. And so they've been
building what they call peaker plants. They build an entire
other plant to be run in the event they need
more power. So we have this place all over the
(35:08):
world where power is being created but not being used.
That would be what I would call the definition of waste.
They say bitcoin is wasting energy. If you use something,
that's not a waste, but they're literally making energy and
not using it. That's a waste. And so bitcoin can
only operate on wasted energy, energy that's already been created
and is not being used. And once it starts being used,
(35:31):
the price starts going up. Competition goes to five cents,
seven cents, and bitcoin has to pack up and move
to another district where it's cheaper. And so yeah, anyone
who said that, first of all, they don't understand ergy
number two. They don't understand bitcoin at all. So I'd
say that, and yeah, who cares about that? But ultimately
I would just say, like bitcoin is the apex predator
(35:53):
of assets, and the reason why is because all the
forms of storing our capital today are five to seven
hundred years old. Stocks equities, right, how long ago was
that created? Right? The Dutch? The Dutch created a market,
you know, the stock market. So we have all these
different assets, and like real estate seems like a good asset,
(36:14):
but when you look at the maintenance and the property
taxes and understand what's going on with that, or gold,
Like where could you have put gold one hundred years
ago that would still be there today? Yeah, right, and
so then you look at okay, so then we can
go into an I'm just gonna throw this out there.
We don't have time to go down this rabbit hole.
But if you think about oil, oil is an asset.
(36:36):
Oil is a commodity. Bitcoin is an asset. Bitcoin's a commodity,
a commodity being different than in equity, a commodity being
that anyone anywhere in the world will get it right.
It's fungible matter where you get it right. There's no
common issuer, right, whether it's wheat or oranges or oil.
So bitcoin is that. But you have oil as an asset,
a commodity that sits around sixty to eighty bucks a
(36:56):
barrow for the last fifty years, so it buying oil
itself isn't necessarily the best thing. But there's an oil
industry that's the eighth largest industry in the world worth
four point eight trillion dollars. So who made the pressure
sensor for the oil pipeliner? Who made the sanar for
the oil tinker? Right? And so we have bitcoin, But
now we have this bitcoin asset. So when I talk
about energy systems, for example, bitcoin is now transforming our
(37:20):
energy grids across the entire world. So we haven't thought
about that. But if we just think about it from
assets specifically, and only store value assets, what are the
things that we're using currently to store our value? Real estate, bonds, equities, cash,
offshore bank accounts, fine art, collectible's gold. Right now today
(37:41):
that total is about nine hundred trillion dollars. Now that
pie continues to grow, So as we continue to pret
more money that grows at the rate that we're on,
that nine hundred trillion, by twenty thirty will be one
point three quadrillion total store value assets. And then you
just ask yourself, there's thirty to forty trillion in off
(38:02):
shore bank accounts. Is bitcoin better than that? Sure?
Speaker 2 (38:05):
You start lining it up and you're like Bitcoin is
superior over all this things.
Speaker 1 (38:08):
It's superior over all those stuff. It doesn't mean they
all go to zero. What it does mean is that
Uber is superior to taxis. Taxis are still there today,
but Uber pulled value. So we have from a venture
capital lens, we have disruptive technology. We look at the
market size that it's disrupting. We estimate what a percentage
we think we can capture from that industry. So Uber
and Airbnb both captured ten percent of their markets within
(38:31):
ten years. So then the question is, if bitcoin is
superior to all those other assets, what percentage of that
pie do we think is realistic to capture. If it
could capture one point five percent by twenty thirty, that
puts it at one million dollars per bitcoin. Wow, now
(38:51):
that's by twenty thirty, that's twenty five and that's less
than two percent, is less than to percent. That's twenty
years after it came out. Uber and Airbnb tod ten
percent ten years.
Speaker 2 (38:59):
So yeah, that's mark. You have a gift. I've I've
talked to lots of people and you laid it out
this better than I've ever heard before. So thank you.
Were times limited I can we rapid fire some things.
Speaker 1 (39:14):
Let's do it. U.
Speaker 2 (39:15):
I want to understand quickly about the government crypto reserve,
and like what what what that means?
Speaker 1 (39:20):
So the government crypto reserve. Trump is the master negotiator, YEA.
The Art of the Deal. He read it, he wrote it.
If you haven't read the book, just read it. And
so what one of the one of one tool that
you have in negotiating is something called anchoring. So you
throw out something big to anchor or or shift the
overton window as we call it. Right, So Trump throws
(39:41):
out crazy things and you think he's crazy nothing. By
the way, I just listened last night there's an interview
with Howard Lutnik from the All In, All In podcasts.
Have you listened to it?
Speaker 2 (39:51):
I have not listened to it, but it's.
Speaker 1 (39:52):
I saw everybody say it's the best interview in the world.
I watched it last night and I went, holy crap,
we have the very smartest people in the entire world.
Speaker 2 (40:01):
I've seen clips and it's it's pretty exciting.
Speaker 1 (40:03):
Wow. But anyway, and he puts he's known Trump for
thirty five years. He paints a picture of him. He
is not an idiot. Everything he says, is perfectly measured.
So he came out and said that, well, first in
the in the in the presidential run, you had burnt
uh or you had RFK Junior, sorry, still running at
that time, and he came to the Bitcoin conference said
he wanted to create a state biccoin reserve. Well, Trump,
(40:25):
not to be outdone, said well, I'll do that as well.
Obviously they're working together now, so we also have Senator
Lummis from Wyoming has already submitted a bill to also
create this in the government, and lots of people are
backing this. Now. What Trump did is he came out
and said, maybe it'll be a crypto asset reserve, and
maybe we'll do Cardano, when we'll do Solon and all
these things, and he just kind of threw out all
that crap and basically got everyone outraged. And not just everybody.
(40:48):
Brian Armstrong, the CEO of coinbase, which makes all its
money from people trading those assets, came out and said, whoa, whoa, whoa,
you can't do that. Only Bitcoin. The head of the
creator of Solana, came out and said, well even though
his coin that mentioned, he said, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa
we can't like, hang on, hang on, and so everyone's like, no, no,
just bitcoins is bitcoin. And then bitcoin went through and
they were very clear when it went through that it
(41:11):
is only bitcoin. Everything else will be looked at completely
ply different, will be treated completely different. And they made
this big differentiator line.
Speaker 2 (41:18):
Does that mean the US is just going to stockpile bitcoin?
Speaker 1 (41:22):
I mean, we don't know exactly, so the details of
it have not been fully fleshed out. So he said,
as of right now, any government owned bitcoin that we
have currently, which was about two hundred thousand or the
bide administration, but we believe that they've been secretly selling
it off. But whatever we have left on the books,
will we kept about two hundred thousand, it's about one
percent of the suppot. And then they are going to
(41:43):
create a plan to continue to buy more bitcoin. But
he called it in a budget neutral way. So what
can we do to get bitcoin without paying for it?
Because taxpayers may object to that? So could we trade
gold for it? You know, could we do it through terror?
What can we do in a budget neutral way? That's
what we don't know the details of that yet. But
when you listen to this interview of Howard Lutnik, who's running. Dude,
(42:05):
the guy is so smart. You have to listen to this.
But like he's he's he's helping. He's the Commerce Secretary,
so he's helping set up this the not only the
sovereign the Strategic bigcom Reserve, but the Sovereign Wealth Fund
and so both of those will have bitcoin. Let me
paint this picture for you. So Howard Lutnik, dude, listen
to this interview. The guy is so friggin smart. Yeah.
He owns a company called Cantor Fitzgerald. Right, it's a
(42:28):
billion dollar Wall Street fund, right, and he had the
top five floors of the World Trade Center. His company
got bombed out. Six hundred people that work for him died.
His company got destroyed. He rebuilt everything, so he's built
it from the ground up multiple times. Cantor Fitzgerald announced
that they are going to open up a two billion
dollars bitcoin equity facility or credit line, So basically institutions
(42:50):
don't have to sell the bitcoin and they can tap
into the equity. So that brings two billion dollars back
to the market. So Cantor Fitzgerald now is sitting in
the center of this of this bit of this bitcoin web,
let's call it. Well. Cantor Fitzgerald now also bought a
billion dollars in micro Strategy in Q four of last year,
just recently. Whoever's listening to this, you're not smarter than
(43:11):
Howard Lutnik, You're not smarter than him. He put a
billion dollars in mic strates. To all these people, Well,
micro strategy a scam, ponzi. Okay, you're not smarter than him.
They put a billion dollars that's like forty percent into
micro Strategy. On the other side, they invested into Tether.
Tether is the largest stable coin company in the world,
but that is putting their treasury into bitcoin as well.
So we have Lutnick, Cantor Fitzgerald, we have micro Strategy,
(43:35):
and we have Tether. Here now, in his role in
the government, he's creating the SBR and a Sovereign Wealth
Fund which will both be centered around bitcoin. Yep, And
you're bearish, like we have this. One of the smartest
guys in the world built multiple billions of dollars multiple
times running the government, building these operations and having his
(43:55):
money where his mouth is in three different companies that
are benefiting from this right, and it's made. I just
made this video on YouTube and I told Mauricio that
I felt bad now this morning because I watched that video.
I kind of said, like, hey, he's in the government,
he's pumping this thing up whatever, and it maybe looked
at maybe like made it look like a little scammy.
I didn't for it to be that way. But after
(44:17):
watching this video, the guy is so smart and he
is a true American patriot. Like, listen to video. He's
a true American patriot. And they're not doing it to
pump their bags. They're not doing it for that. They
realize it's the best asset in the world. Yeah, they
realized history. Right, So when China in the late eighteen
hundreds decided that they were going to stay with the
silver standard, when the whole world went to a gold standard,
(44:39):
she kind of lost their place in the world. And
it's taken them one hundred years to come back.
Speaker 2 (44:44):
Yeah, with the last two minutes, there's a lot of
questions I don't want to ask, but we are we
are the wealthiest country because of the American dollar. How
does crypto? Does crypto threat the US dollar? And then
let's land the plane because I know we have stop.
Speaker 1 (45:00):
Well, we're not just this, We're not just the wealthiest
country in the world from the US dollar. Howard Lutnik
put this into perspective. So you always hear about the
GDP of the country. You hear about the revenue of
the country. You're about the debt of the country. As
a business owner, there's still a number missing. So we
have thirty six trillion dollars in debt, We have twenty
(45:24):
nine trillion of GDP. We have six point five trillion
of spending. We have four point five trillion of revenue.
So you hear the revenue and spending where two trillion
dollar definite? That sounds terrible, right, But as a business owner,
there's one big number missing. What's the balance sheet? What's
the balance sheet of the United States? Estimated between five
hundred trillion to a quadrillion. That's the balance sheet. So
(45:50):
when you have a business guy like a Lutnik coming
and go, wait a minute, look at the ballance sheet.
We have five hundred trillion dollars of assets. What is
thirty six trillion dollar debt. We can balance the budget.
The debt is miniscool. We can monetize the balance sheet,
Like what are we doing here, guys? And so anyway
(46:10):
back to it's not just this because of the currency
we have the balance sheet anyway, So back to the
currency question. So the dollars reserve currency of the world.
I don't think anything is changing that. I did make
a video recently. So the Trumpet administration, the US government
is all in on creating the US dollar stable coins.
And so part of the reason why is the world
(46:31):
when I talk about the world Peru, Argentina, Lebanon, Turkey,
et cetera, they desperately want dollars because their currencies are
exploding all around them, but they're not able to get dollars.
Their countries keep them from doing that. So US dollars
stable coins have made it where they can easily get
to the US dollars. So the world desperately wants US dollars.
Bitcoin as much as I believe in it, and it's
(46:53):
the ten x in front, you should be buying it.
It's too volatile for the average person to be trying
to be trying to live their life on it. If
you have money you can put away for five years,
you should put in a bitcoin. But if I have
money that I'm trying to spend. I got to pay
my rent next week. It's too volatile. So the world
needs dollars, and I think the two complement each other
in a transitional period. So the US dollar stable coin
will get to the entire world. And then the government
(47:17):
also has another problem. The government needs people to buy treasuries.
So now we have vs. A V. We have the
world buying stable coins. Stable coins go into treasuries. So
I believe this will cementt the dollars position in the
world as the reserve currency. It will only become stronger
than it already is and will take over everything because
even countries with their own currencies the people want and dollars,
(47:40):
the stable coins will get it out there, and working
together with bitcoin and the dollars, it will cement that position.
Now we have all these things, we can store wealth
in gold and collectibles and fine art and all these things.
It doesn't take away from the dollar. Nobody thinks they
should be storing their wealth in the dollar.
Speaker 2 (47:57):
It's not a store of value.
Speaker 1 (47:58):
So we store our wealth in other things, and we
use the dollar to buy your coffee in the morning.
So I don't see how it really threatens the dollar
now over a long enough period of time, yes, I
believe that will happen by about twenty fifty or twenty
fifty five. Then there's a threat, but I think we
have the next thirty years in front of us. Mark.
Speaker 2 (48:14):
Thank you. I could talk to you for hours, and
we will put all your information, including I'm going to
ask you off camera, any resources on bitcoin that someone's like,
I'm sold, I want to learn more. We'll have that below.
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (48:25):
Yeah, thank you,
Host
Mark Moss
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