July 9, 2025 • 33 mins
Tonight I talk to the amazing Salena Zito - she is an incredible reporter and her new book, BUTLER, is out today. We cover what happened the day that President Trump was shot, just a few short feet away from Salena and her daughter. Salena and President Trump have a terrific friendship, and what she witnessed that day and those that followed, she believes, changed the course of the election.
A little bit about the book:
Butler, The Untold Story of the Near Assassination of Donald Trump and the Fight for America's Heartland:
"Salena Zito…. She understands you people and me better than we do.” -- President Donald J. Trump
From the acclaimed journalist standing only a few feet away from the stage when the gunshots began is this gripping first-hand account of the near assassination of Donald Trump – and the inside story of Trump’s heartland-fueled victory.
That day in Butler, had the wind gusted less, had Trump’s head turned in a slightly different direction, or had the adrenaline-fueled heart of the shooter beat slower, America would have been plunged into chaos, possibly even civil war. As a local reporter with deep ties to the area, Salena Zito had been invited by the president to interview him at the Butler Farm Show Grounds. She was standing only four feet away from the presidential podium when the bullets started to fly. A campaign staffer tackled her to the ground.
Throughout it all, Salena never stopped reporting. She spoke by phone to Trump several times in the immediate aftermath and was granted access to community members, rally participants, family members and local law enforcement officials. “I rarely look away from the crowd,” Trump told her in one of several of those conversations. “Had I not done that in that moment, well, we would not be talking today, would we?”
Known for her on-the-ground reporting on populism and rural America, Salena zooms out to tell the fascinating story of the battle for America’s heartland and the issues that actually motivate voters. To understand how and why Trump won the 2024 election, you have to understand places like Butler. Big cities like Los Angeles, New York and D.C. don’t decide who wins election cycles, but people in places like Butler, Pennsylvania sure do. President Trump gave the author extraordinary access for this book, including to his top aides, to his running mate JD Vance, to billionaire supporter Elon Musk, and even his security detail.
There are moments that define America. The late afternoon hours of July 13, 2024 was one of them. This book is a narrative of that fateful day, the people of the heartland and the untold story of how the president found his way back into the heart of the electorate.
https://a.co/d/94Bbk5K
@LyndaMick
@The Rogue Recap
@ZitoSalena
https://a.co/d/94Bbk5K
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
This is the Rogue Recap with Linda McLaughlin. She's unfiltered, unforgiving,
and understandably annoyed by everyone. Make sure you like and
subscribe to her a podcast and follow her on x
at the Rogue Recap.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
Hey, everybody, it's Lenda McLachlin of The Rogue Recap. Super
stoked tonight to be here with my dear friend and colleague,
Selena Zito. Today is the release day of her book, Butler.
We have all been waiting for it. I've been waiting
for it because I knew she was writing it back
in December when she let me in on a little
secret and I was like, I have to wait how
much longer for this? So we're super excited. The full
(00:39):
title just I don't want to you know, jip anybody.
It's the untold story of the near assassination of Donald
Trump and the fight for America's heartland. So Selena, so
excited to have you here. I mean, what a day
for you, right, I guess you've been NonStop.
Speaker 3 (00:52):
I'm so excited to be here with you because there's
nothing better than be able to do good storytelling with
someone that you're super comfortable with, that you know and
you can be chill with and I suspect your audience
is the same way. And so this is an honor
for me.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
So I think the one thing that I would ask you,
I mean, obviously you know I've been I know your
story of the day of Butler and just being so
close to the president and the proximity. And I know
your daughters. Also, you know a photojournalist, she's in our business.
Like you guys get it. And I think when when
you become a part of news and you are the
news that you're typically just reporting on, it's a very
(01:33):
different thing.
Speaker 3 (01:35):
Yeah, please, yeah, absolutely, So I should backtrack a little
bit when when I became a reporter, nobody knew who
a local reporter was, right nobody. I love that anonymity, right,
that I could be just their report of story. Go
do my job and file my story and do my job.
(01:56):
I do not get in the business really like with this,
with this expectation of attention, right, But that's what the
business morphed into. And for people to see and read
and feel your stories, you have to be able to
talk about them in a meaningful and authentic way. And
(02:17):
so when you are a reporter and you find yourself
in the middle, like you always want to not be
in the store. I make sure I'm not even in
the photo, you know, if there's people taking photos, I'll
just I'll be just like Homer Simpson, like like, don't
get me in the photo. I'm not the story. And
(02:41):
so that day started off, you know, like a typical day.
When you're a reporter, you have no level of expectation
that anything's going to go as planned. Nonetheless, you have
to have a plan, and so my plan was to
interview the president. Chris Losovito, a campaign had told me,
you've got five minutes with the president before the rally. Now,
(03:05):
I hadn't interviewed President Trump since Latroe, Pennsylvania in twenty twenty.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
Oh my god.
Speaker 3 (03:12):
Between that time, he got into mad at me for
interviewing Ron DeSantis, and Ron de Santis didn't tell me
he was running for president. In the story and nothing
was said bad about the president, but nonetheless I didn't think.
I definitely know he didn't like it, and it was
a truth social post. So you know, that's part of
(03:36):
the business, right it is, Well, you have to have
a thick skin if you went into journalism for people
to like you you definitely went into the wrong business.
Speaker 2 (03:46):
Yes, you did.
Speaker 3 (03:47):
And I also understood at that moment in February of
twenty twenty three that you know, he had a lot
of stuff piling up on him, and so I didn't
taken it personal because some Italian it's not a bit personal, right,
And I just let it roll off my back. And also,
there really wasn't people that chimed in on it, because
(04:11):
people have followed me for so long and knew I
had been very good at covering people in the Midwest,
the Appalachia and the Great Lakes Midwest, so you know,
there wasn't any sort of blowback towards me. So I'm
there to cover him to be our first interview in
(04:34):
four years, and I'm supposed to interview him for five minutes.
That changes to you're gonna only interview him, You're gonna
interview him for five minutes after the event. Then that
changes to Susie Wilds calls me and says, so what
do you think about flying to Bedminster and.
Speaker 2 (04:56):
The five hours?
Speaker 3 (04:58):
I was like, I didn't have that on my Bengo car.
But I'm in Watter, got a babysitter, which by the way.
You have four children, you know that getting a babysitter
for four children is literally an act of God needs
to rise up and put his hand on your shoulder
for that to happen. I got you, So, okay, we're
(05:19):
gonna interview him. And then all of a sudden, the
Trump had landed. He was behind the stage. He was
doing what's called the Click line where he meets and
greets people that are, you know, first responders and do
gooders in the community, and he spends some time talking
with them and they get the picture taken to hence
(05:40):
the word click. And so they rushed me back and
I said, oh, okay, I guess we're doing the interview now, right.
They rushed Shannon and Michael and I back, and there's
a curtain and I said to the handler, his name
is Michelle Picard the third, where am I doing this interview?
(06:02):
And he looks at me like, I actually don't.
Speaker 2 (06:05):
Know where you can I don't know.
Speaker 3 (06:07):
But he didn't know where to put me, right, and
so he goes, excuse me, and he goes around the
curtain to talk to President Trump like basically say.
Speaker 2 (06:18):
Where do I put What are we doing? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (06:19):
Yeah, And then he comes back very sheepishly. He goes,
she just wants to say hi to you. You're still
going to Bedminster. This isn't the interview. I'm like, okay,
So I go around this curtain and I hear Salina
like the way he Alwa says it, and then he
makes a big deal about doesn't she like And this
(06:41):
is where I just want to crawl in a hole.
He says, look at her hair. Everyone doesn't she have
the most beautiful hair? And there's like thirty State troopers.
They're all staring at my hair. And by the way,
I had been in one hundred and one.
Speaker 2 (06:55):
Degrees very hot that day.
Speaker 3 (06:58):
Literally Monica from friends when she's and but then he
gives me a hug. He asked about my grandchildren. We
talk about it because you you know, I'm really am
interested in this interview about pets particular. And then you know,
I go to leave, but I hear the beginnings of
(07:19):
Lee Greenwood. I'm like, that's when he comes out and
I look at Michelle Piccard and he said, we can't
get you back to the riser. You go in the buffer,
follow the president out. You can take pictures, take video,
do whatever you want. Just end up, you know, towards
the end on the other side. And that's exactly what
I did, and that's how we ended up with the
(07:39):
cover that we have. Shannon took that photo that day
and then then that photo on the cover really has
has some very depths and meaning and explain that later.
And so we go out, we take pictures, and then
we work our way over to the side, you know,
the point. There's no reason to be standing in front
(08:02):
of him. Sure, and he does two things he never does.
He puts a chart down. And I remember when he
put the chart down. I turned to my daughter and said,
what is he? Ross Parrot? Because it's candidate that always
had a chart, right, had a chart. He had no personality,
but he had great charts. And then he also turns
(08:26):
his head. Now you would think so President Trump does
never turn his head away from a rally goer and
people in a rally. There's a reason for that. There's
a very transactional relationship. He feeds off of them, they
feed off of him. He doesn't. He doesn't. He's very
(08:46):
respectful of them, feeling as though he is present with them.
And in the moment that he turns his head, I
hear the first four shots. Now I knew what it
was immediately. I knew it was gunfire. I'm a gun owner, right,
I grew up in western Pennsylvania.
Speaker 2 (09:06):
So it's like a bers yeah.
Speaker 3 (09:11):
And I watch him and everything goes in very slow motion.
It's true when they say about that, At least it
was for me. It was sort of like layers of time.
And I watched him grab his ear, I watched the
blood streak across his cheek. I see him take himself down.
(09:33):
That was my first understanding that he might be okay.
But he takes himself down behind the podium, and I
remember like praying and saying, Dear God, please that someone's
protect him. That shooter, that that gunshot came over my
(09:55):
head right, that didn't come from the front where the
prodium would protect him. And then I kept thinking, well,
I hope everybody else is okay in the stands. And
then came the next four shots. In between those two rounds,
there was like a sea of secret service that surrounded him,
(10:15):
navy blue suits that were just a protective stance. You
could barely see him. If there was more bullets coming
his way, they were going to take them and I
can see his head, his face, he's holding his ear,
his hat is off, and then the Michelle Picard takes
(10:36):
me down.
Speaker 2 (10:36):
He knocks me down.
Speaker 3 (10:38):
And because I'm I in that moment, I have purpose.
My purpose is I'm a reporter. God give me this talent.
I need to chronicle what's happening, because this is being
This is what it is when you are a witness
to history and you have a depth of understanding. I've
always been graced with with sort of a great little recall.
(11:01):
I can remember things, I can remember smells, you know.
I can see dimensionally, so not just what's in front
of me, but I can see what's, you know, beyond,
in the background. And so, and I have my recorder on.
I always have my recorder on. And people say, well,
why would you record a speech. You can just get
(11:22):
the transcript. Well, what's important in reporting and often missed
is conversations are not a transcript, and speeches are not
a transcript because there's nuance in conversations, right, People's voices change.
You want to be able to capture that when you're
telling a story, because saying something one way, just writing
(11:43):
it flatly is very different than framing it with the
emotion that it's said, which is why I always record things,
so my recorders on, I kind of forget that. And
I watch him fight with the Secret Service to get
his shoes on, and there's a reason for that, and
(12:08):
the crowd starts chanting USA, and I can see him
mouth it. I can't hear him, but I can see
him say USA along with them at least twice. And
they get him up and they're want to take him away,
and he goes no, no, no, no no, or wait
wait wait. I think he said wait, wait, wait, and
he turns around and that's when he says fight White Fight.
(12:30):
And that moment, that decision is so pivotal to whatever
happens from that moment on through the rest of the campaign,
but also since January. That moment is so profound, and
why he says it. People don't understand why he said it,
(12:50):
but why he says it is even more profound.
Speaker 2 (12:55):
So listening to you, I mean, obviously, I think you're terrific,
and I read all your column and have for a
gajillion years, and proud to call you a fellow Pennsylvania
native and all the things. But I think the thing
that I really want people to pull away when they
listen to you. Is you're so embedded in the messaging,
right even down to the point of recording the voice
(13:18):
and getting the nuance because it's lost in a transcript.
It's so true and you think to yourself, oh, remember that,
but you won't. You won't remember that because there is
first of all, my god, you're on the Trump detail,
You're in the buffer. There's so much going on. To
even attempt to remember everything, all the things that are
happening around you, it's difficult, right, And you may even
(13:39):
give yourself a little note remember to talk about you know,
white shirt, red shorts, great USA had or whatever you're
going to add as an anecdote, right, because they give
color to those people who couldn't make it. To Butler,
I mean, to be perfectly frank, nobody heard of Butler
before this incident, you know what I mean. They're like,
where the heck is Butler Pennsylvania. And the fact that
he went back, I mean, the audacity and the whole
(14:04):
to me, it was like he was reclaiming it. I
know we're both very good friends with Sarah Carter, and
I was on the phone the day that Sarah Carter
showed up to cover it, right, and she's saying to me,
I can't even I can't even tell you how many
people are here. It's she goes, it's eight o'clock in
the morning, and it was like mombed, you know, and
it just shows, you know, And I wasn't there. It
(14:26):
was one of those things. I was like, man, you know,
and I had an obligation for one of the kids,
and it was like, you make those choices, right. But
it's crazy to think how all of that sort of
culminated into this one moment, because I mean, I don't
know how you feel about Matthew Crooks, but my god,
I know I read some of your book and it's
like it was just strange, right. The calls they came
(14:49):
after the five hour call later with the FBI and
the dad. You know, you really delineated a lot of
that really well. And I again, guys, if you're listening,
this is Selena Zito. She wrote the book Butler. It's
out today. I urge you buy the audiobook, buy the
print book by it to day. It's on sale, by
the way, right, it's on sale today and tomorrow.
Speaker 3 (15:08):
It is on sale today and tomorrow on Amazon. And
it's true witness to history, not just what happened in Butler.
Why does he go to Butler? You know? And it's
a really deal detailed explanation about why there's only ever
been two US presidents that have campaigned for president in
Butler and the other one was JFK.
Speaker 2 (15:30):
So it's so funny. I was going to go to
that point and just talk about that whole idea. While
they were on opposite sides politically, they're both disruptors. They
both were men of the people, if you will, And
so I wanted to go back for a minute and
just ask you, how did your relationship with President Trump
come to be?
Speaker 3 (15:48):
Like?
Speaker 2 (15:48):
Where did this? I need to know the origins, you
know a little bit of where this all came from.
Speaker 3 (15:54):
Well, you know, if people have not read me before
or heard me before, I'm based in from Pennsylvania. The
region that I cover tends to be Appalachia, but also
the Great Lakes, Midwest Pennsylvania, Ohio, Michigan, and Wisconsin. And
I've always zigged where everyone zagged. I understood for a
(16:18):
while that this conservative populist coalition was forming, and so
I understood and my writing showed that, and so you
would see that in my coverage of Wisconsin, of Scott Walker,
right of Ohio, just how these states were changing. It
(16:39):
was very granular beginning in two thousand and six, but
something definitely was happening. And so his Pennsylvania guy, David Urban,
I had known forever, and so David is the one
that kept giving him my stories and trying to convince
him to sedu a sit down. Now, at the time
(17:01):
I did my first sit down with him, I was
a local reporter for the Pittsburgh Tribune Review. Well, I
was supposed to do it as that, but the day,
the day that they asked me to do the interview
was also my last day on the job. They had
urged people to take the buy out. It became clear
(17:24):
that if I didn't take the buy out and get
the you know, the money that you get when you
do a buy out there, I really would be fired.
After the buyer out was over, right, there was there
was that hint that boy, you should, you should really
take that. And so I was walking out of the
(17:44):
newsroom crying. And you know, newsrooms are like, especially old
school newsrooms are like the land of the misfit toys.
Speaker 2 (17:53):
I mean one right now, it's just totally.
Speaker 3 (17:56):
You all are doing wildly different things. You somehow come
together to produce a newspaper or produce a show, right.
And so I'm walking out and I get a call
from David Irban. He goes, hey, Selena, you have an
interview with Donald Trump in two days. And I was like, oh,
that's awesome. And I'm like, I don't have a job.
Speaker 2 (18:19):
I have no outlet. It's a princess in the.
Speaker 3 (18:22):
New York Times. And they're like, now, we're not interested.
And I called listen Daily Beast I think it was
a Daily Beast and maybe Political or Washington Post, I
can't remember. At this point, I caught a whole bunch
of them. Finally, I like exhausted, you know, And I
didn't even know these beats, like a cold call. It
(18:43):
like Glengarry Glenn Ross the word, and it was The
Atlantic that took.
Speaker 2 (18:49):
The story of all places.
Speaker 3 (18:51):
All places. I think I got paid two hundred dollars
for that job. It was two things happened in that
interview that I think started our mutual respect for each other.
I saw for it was at a Marcella shale coalition
convention in Pittsburgh, and he was not that interested in
(19:13):
the suits that were attending. He was very interested in
the people that put the event together. So after we
do the interview, and it was in that interview that
I said to him, you know, voters take you seriously,
but they don't take everything that you say literally, whereas
the press takes you everything that you say is literal,
(19:34):
and they don't take you very seriously. But what happened
in that moment is he's like, come on, take a
walk with me after the interview. I'm like, okay. So
we take a walk and he stops and talks to
the janitor. He talks to the guy that's pushing the
big carts of water. He's talking to the caterers that
(19:56):
are going to be serving all these c suite suits
that are out there waiting to hear Trump speak. And
his connective tissue with those people told me that you
know what, what what blaite people like him because he's
from the outer borough. He's not Manhattan, right, He's the
(20:17):
guy who had to punch his way up. And if
anybody's ever seen the movie Age of Innocence, that sort
of tear system in New York. If you're not old money,
you don't belong with the crowd. He and he had
that grit that is possessed by the working class people.
That's what they saw in him. That also c sweet
(20:37):
guys saw them in two because a lot of them
had to punch their way up to get there. So
that's sort of how that coalition. So that that is
where that that moment I said that to him, I'm like,
you're a really curious.
Speaker 2 (20:51):
Guy, a big collar billionaire.
Speaker 3 (20:54):
Yeah, you're asking all these questions of people that that
people don't expect you to be connected to. I think
began our respect for each other. Two weeks later, the
New York Post hired me to drive across the country
to do a story on again. I'm freelancing, right, I'm like,
(21:17):
barely making ends meet. I just want to finish this
election because I knew what was going to happen. And
why I knew what was going to happen was I
understood my state was changing our state, Pennsylvania. Right. Bill
Clinton had won our state by winning twenty eight of
our sixty seven counties and eroded every four years byzero
(21:41):
point one percent. If you're a nerd, you know this stuff.
By twenty twelve, Barack Obama had only won thirteen of
our counties.
Speaker 2 (21:51):
Yeah, it got very purple.
Speaker 3 (21:52):
Yeah, And that was telling me that the possibility was
going to happen. And there was ten counties that I
high identified that if Trump won just two thousand more
votes in those counties, he would win the election. Didn't
matter what happened in Pennsylvania or Pittsburgh and Philly. If
he won those ten more rural counties, he would win
(22:13):
the state. I drove across the country for the New
York Post on Route thirty and came back and wrote,
the selection's over. You all just don't know it yet.
I think he thought that was a pretty bowl like
rush Limbaugh at the time was whoa. I think Sean
(22:37):
did too, Sean in rush Limbaugh. And then that's when
the president started to really follow the work that I do.
And you know, it is not easy to be me
this person right there. Not because I'm a like a
cheerleader for the president. I just understand people, and I
(22:59):
could see the and change in people. Yeah, and and
so that's that's sort of where that mutual respect began.
And again he did get mad at me once but
you know, less than a year later, he made a
phone call to me. I was watching my four grandchildren,
(23:20):
who at the time were six, four, two and an infant,
and and he calls and I'm like trying to navigate
four children. He is laughing his head off, and that
was that was it. Everything was good.
Speaker 2 (23:42):
It just humanized it all. I mean, honestly, kids are
the best thing ever. So it really does. You know,
he was wonderful with children. I mean, you know, he
met my son. We went h we did it. We
were at one of his rallies and he did this
sit down with Sean Hannity and and we were in
the front row and Sean was, you know, pointing me
(24:03):
out and he goes and that's her son, Liam. And
he came over and shook Liam's hand, and Liam was like,
I don't I don't understand what's happening right now, like totally.
My older kids were there too, but it was like
and he had a picture from my niece which he
gave to the President and the President took it very graciously,
and I just was like, this is surreal. I hadn't
(24:23):
even met him yet. Yeah, which was pretty funny, you know.
So it was like a moment for me. But back
to back to Butler and your book out today. You know,
I think obviously people want to read this account because
it's firsthand. You're there, you you saw it, you smelt it,
you felt it, you saw all the other people and
what they went through. And obviously we lost some really
(24:44):
wonderful people that day who the President has honored, you
know since then so many times, which is amazing. But
I think if I was going to ask you one
question about the book, what would you think? What do
you want people to come away with just their own interpretation.
Is there some thing about the book that you're like,
I really hope they get.
Speaker 3 (25:02):
This, and I hope they get and understand that America
changed in that moment, And and reading my reporting every
day on the road, right, I don't fly, I don't
even go in interstates. I only take back roads, seeing
(25:23):
how this election unfolded, seeing how bad I was also
covering Harris, seeing how bad she was doing in the
decisions that she made that has not been prosecuted in
the in the in the blogosphere, whatever whatever we want
to call it, in a way that it should be,
(25:44):
because there were some believable terrible mistakes made in the
most important state in the country, the ones that you
should never ever make. And I and I think that
that there was also a joy that they will find
in this book, because there were moments that were joyful
(26:05):
like McDonald's.
Speaker 2 (26:08):
And also there was five minutes from my house by
the way I did that. I was like, this is wild.
I'm like, this is so great.
Speaker 3 (26:17):
That was great. I was there. But also I remember
the Madison Square garden thing, right, and the garbage thing,
and every reporter, every single reporter I knew, said this
is it. It's over, it's done. He's lost them. And
I go out to eastern PA in the most populist
(26:39):
city in the state of people that are from Puerto Rico,
and you know, there's supposed to be this big protest
because he's coming to do a rally, big protests. They've
left him. And there were six people at the protest,
and so find one voter that left him, No, not one.
Speaker 2 (27:04):
Let me tell you something. You know what I learned
from the garbage truck moment, aside from the fact that
it happened around Halloween and every child I knew wanted
to be a garbage truck man, I mean, do you
remember that grown men dressing up as garbage truck men?
Speaker 3 (27:17):
My whole neighborhood, the whole neighborhoods. Yes.
Speaker 2 (27:20):
I was like, okay, you know he did the exact opposite.
It said to me two things. One, nothing is beneath
this man. Nothing And two, whoever he got to turn
that truck around that fast? Oh my god, they must
have started working on it the second it happened. I know,
not incredible.
Speaker 3 (27:39):
And a couple of days later this was, this was
a powerful moment. He has this event in Pittsburgh. He has,
uh it's the night before the election. So it's a
couple of days later after after garbage and and the
place he has has a peep arena and it is
(28:03):
packed and I see people lined up for a half
a mile in each direction to get in. And I'm
looking and this is a phenomenon I kept writing about.
But guys, there's a lot of young people here. Oh
by the way, guys, these crowds are really diverse. How
how are you not writing about this? Where is your
(28:24):
intellectual curiosity? And I remember the next night was election night. Yeah,
and I had a reporter, a local reporter come up
to me and say, I'm just going to have to
disagree with your story about the diversity and the young people.
Speaker 2 (28:39):
And I'm like, I, you know, I don't make a
selfie together and get the background.
Speaker 3 (28:45):
I mean, you know, I was there too, and I said,
well then your eyes weren't wide open. But at that
event sat Roberto Clemente Junior. He's born in Puerto Rico.
He is a pillar of the community, the Clemente family.
People don't know who ROBERTA Clemente is. He was the
(29:06):
best bag baseball player that ever was from Puerto Rico
and his children were born there too, and he's a
pillar of the community. He runs the Clemente Foundation, and
he is boldly sitting right there to to to welcome
President Trump, and and then Megan Kelly is there, and
(29:27):
then the announcement comes through that Joe Rogan has endorsed him. Right,
you have like all this diversity of thought, experience, ethnic background,
and nobody wrote it but me, and it frustrated the
heck out of me. So I think that people will
see and be able to feel the real truth that
(29:49):
was going on in this in this election. But also
you know, the reckoning with my with my profession.
Speaker 2 (29:57):
I think it's amazing you. You really did do something
that is very difficult, which was you stood alone. Yeah,
and to standalone is very difficult when everyone in your
industry is staring at you, oh.
Speaker 3 (30:10):
Yeah, and or you at all throwing tweets at me
that aren't doing nice.
Speaker 2 (30:16):
Well, that's I mean to your point. I mean, you
started the interview by saying I didn't get in this
business because I didn't have a thick skin. I'm Italian, right,
you're right because as many people that love you, and
I always say this. You know, my mother told me
this growing up and it's very very true, as are
many things she has told me in my life, which
is you will always hear more negative than positive because
positive people are not wishing you ill. They're saying, oh
(30:38):
my god, she's amazing, and then they move on with
their day.
Speaker 1 (30:41):
Right.
Speaker 2 (30:41):
But the people that are saying negative, like oh I
don't like doing this, there are and they like just
dwell in it and it just projects it. It's like,
oh god, could you please, you know, get a hobby.
But it's like you just persevered. You're like, no, I
was there, this is real. I was there with my daughter.
We experience this. I'm gonna run a book about it.
You guys are going to read it, and it is
(31:02):
the truth and nobody can take it away.
Speaker 3 (31:05):
I didn't go to an Ivy league school. I went
to community college a waitress. I have worked in a
sewer treatment plant. I have been the cafeteria lady. I
have been a shampoo girl.
Speaker 2 (31:17):
So I.
Speaker 3 (31:20):
I understand the people that I cover, and I respect them,
and I thank them so much for letting me into
their homes and their businesses and soccer fields and bulling
alleys and diners and letting me be able to tell
their story in an incredibly meaningful way.
Speaker 2 (31:38):
Well, I think you have done that in spades. I
think you are by far one of the most talented writers.
I loved reading what you wrote before I ever knew you,
and then I was like, I have to be friends
with her. How do I do that? Okay, I'll just
keep emailing her and telling her that I like her
and I want her to come on every show that
I work on, and that's what we did. But I
have to say every time I would say to somebody,
(31:58):
oh did you read that piece by Selene Azito, Because
first of all, your website's great. And wherever you you know,
I always what is it? Nowhere is the no somewhere
right everything in the middle of somewhere. And I was like, man,
that isn't that the truth? It's no, it's my god. Butler, Like.
Speaker 3 (32:18):
My family was one of the founding families of Butler.
No kidding the seventeen fifties. Wow, they served in the
American Revolution, they served in the French and India War.
My family, my family was one of the founding families
of Butler. So I'm very rooted. And also, place is
(32:38):
really important. It's a nuance in American politics that posters
and strategists don't understand and a set how much place
means to someone when they're guiding their vote, and that
is that is a theme throughout the book that I
hope that people start to really reflect and think about.
Speaker 2 (33:01):
Well, I'll tell you what, ladies and gentlemen. Selena Zito,
She's fantastic. Her new book, Butler, is out today. Please
get it. You can get it on Amazon. Continue to
read our article. Selena Zito, thank you so much for
being on the Roague Recap.
Speaker 3 (33:13):
Thank you, my friend.
Speaker 2 (33:14):
We'll see you next time.
This is the Rogue Recap with Linda McLaughlin. She's unfiltered, unforgiving,
and understandably annoyed by everyone. Make sure you like and
subscribe to her a podcast and follow her on x
at the Rogue Recap.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
Hey, everybody, it's Lenda McLachlin of The Rogue Recap. Super
stoked tonight to be here with my dear friend and colleague,
Selena Zito. Today is the release day of her book, Butler.
We have all been waiting for it. I've been waiting
for it because I knew she was writing it back
in December when she let me in on a little
secret and I was like, I have to wait how
much longer for this? So we're super excited. The full
(00:39):
title just I don't want to you know, jip anybody.
It's the untold story of the near assassination of Donald
Trump and the fight for America's heartland. So Selena, so
excited to have you here. I mean, what a day
for you, right, I guess you've been NonStop.
Speaker 3 (00:52):
I'm so excited to be here with you because there's
nothing better than be able to do good storytelling with
someone that you're super comfortable with, that you know and
you can be chill with and I suspect your audience
is the same way. And so this is an honor
for me.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
So I think the one thing that I would ask you,
I mean, obviously you know I've been I know your
story of the day of Butler and just being so
close to the president and the proximity. And I know
your daughters. Also, you know a photojournalist, she's in our business.
Like you guys get it. And I think when when
you become a part of news and you are the
news that you're typically just reporting on, it's a very
(01:33):
different thing.
Speaker 3 (01:35):
Yeah, please, yeah, absolutely, So I should backtrack a little
bit when when I became a reporter, nobody knew who
a local reporter was, right nobody. I love that anonymity, right,
that I could be just their report of story. Go
do my job and file my story and do my job.
(01:56):
I do not get in the business really like with this,
with this expectation of attention, right, But that's what the
business morphed into. And for people to see and read
and feel your stories, you have to be able to
talk about them in a meaningful and authentic way. And
(02:17):
so when you are a reporter and you find yourself
in the middle, like you always want to not be
in the store. I make sure I'm not even in
the photo, you know, if there's people taking photos, I'll
just I'll be just like Homer Simpson, like like, don't
get me in the photo. I'm not the story. And
(02:41):
so that day started off, you know, like a typical day.
When you're a reporter, you have no level of expectation
that anything's going to go as planned. Nonetheless, you have
to have a plan, and so my plan was to
interview the president. Chris Losovito, a campaign had told me,
you've got five minutes with the president before the rally. Now,
(03:05):
I hadn't interviewed President Trump since Latroe, Pennsylvania in twenty twenty.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
Oh my god.
Speaker 3 (03:12):
Between that time, he got into mad at me for
interviewing Ron DeSantis, and Ron de Santis didn't tell me
he was running for president. In the story and nothing
was said bad about the president, but nonetheless I didn't think.
I definitely know he didn't like it, and it was
a truth social post. So you know, that's part of
(03:36):
the business, right it is, Well, you have to have
a thick skin if you went into journalism for people
to like you you definitely went into the wrong business.
Speaker 2 (03:46):
Yes, you did.
Speaker 3 (03:47):
And I also understood at that moment in February of
twenty twenty three that you know, he had a lot
of stuff piling up on him, and so I didn't
taken it personal because some Italian it's not a bit personal, right,
And I just let it roll off my back. And also,
there really wasn't people that chimed in on it, because
(04:11):
people have followed me for so long and knew I
had been very good at covering people in the Midwest,
the Appalachia and the Great Lakes Midwest, so you know,
there wasn't any sort of blowback towards me. So I'm
there to cover him to be our first interview in
(04:34):
four years, and I'm supposed to interview him for five minutes.
That changes to you're gonna only interview him, You're gonna
interview him for five minutes after the event. Then that
changes to Susie Wilds calls me and says, so what
do you think about flying to Bedminster and.
Speaker 2 (04:56):
The five hours?
Speaker 3 (04:58):
I was like, I didn't have that on my Bengo car.
But I'm in Watter, got a babysitter, which by the way.
You have four children, you know that getting a babysitter
for four children is literally an act of God needs
to rise up and put his hand on your shoulder
for that to happen. I got you, So, okay, we're
(05:19):
gonna interview him. And then all of a sudden, the
Trump had landed. He was behind the stage. He was
doing what's called the Click line where he meets and
greets people that are, you know, first responders and do
gooders in the community, and he spends some time talking
with them and they get the picture taken to hence
(05:40):
the word click. And so they rushed me back and
I said, oh, okay, I guess we're doing the interview now, right.
They rushed Shannon and Michael and I back, and there's
a curtain and I said to the handler, his name
is Michelle Picard the third, where am I doing this interview?
(06:02):
And he looks at me like, I actually don't.
Speaker 2 (06:05):
Know where you can I don't know.
Speaker 3 (06:07):
But he didn't know where to put me, right, and
so he goes, excuse me, and he goes around the
curtain to talk to President Trump like basically say.
Speaker 2 (06:18):
Where do I put What are we doing? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (06:19):
Yeah, And then he comes back very sheepishly. He goes,
she just wants to say hi to you. You're still
going to Bedminster. This isn't the interview. I'm like, okay,
So I go around this curtain and I hear Salina
like the way he Alwa says it, and then he
makes a big deal about doesn't she like And this
(06:41):
is where I just want to crawl in a hole.
He says, look at her hair. Everyone doesn't she have
the most beautiful hair? And there's like thirty State troopers.
They're all staring at my hair. And by the way,
I had been in one hundred and one.
Speaker 2 (06:55):
Degrees very hot that day.
Speaker 3 (06:58):
Literally Monica from friends when she's and but then he
gives me a hug. He asked about my grandchildren. We
talk about it because you you know, I'm really am
interested in this interview about pets particular. And then you know,
I go to leave, but I hear the beginnings of
(07:19):
Lee Greenwood. I'm like, that's when he comes out and
I look at Michelle Piccard and he said, we can't
get you back to the riser. You go in the buffer,
follow the president out. You can take pictures, take video,
do whatever you want. Just end up, you know, towards
the end on the other side. And that's exactly what
I did, and that's how we ended up with the
(07:39):
cover that we have. Shannon took that photo that day
and then then that photo on the cover really has
has some very depths and meaning and explain that later.
And so we go out, we take pictures, and then
we work our way over to the side, you know,
the point. There's no reason to be standing in front
(08:02):
of him. Sure, and he does two things he never does.
He puts a chart down. And I remember when he
put the chart down. I turned to my daughter and said,
what is he? Ross Parrot? Because it's candidate that always
had a chart, right, had a chart. He had no personality,
but he had great charts. And then he also turns
(08:26):
his head. Now you would think so President Trump does
never turn his head away from a rally goer and
people in a rally. There's a reason for that. There's
a very transactional relationship. He feeds off of them, they
feed off of him. He doesn't. He doesn't. He's very
(08:46):
respectful of them, feeling as though he is present with them.
And in the moment that he turns his head, I
hear the first four shots. Now I knew what it
was immediately. I knew it was gunfire. I'm a gun owner, right,
I grew up in western Pennsylvania.
Speaker 2 (09:06):
So it's like a bers yeah.
Speaker 3 (09:11):
And I watch him and everything goes in very slow motion.
It's true when they say about that, At least it
was for me. It was sort of like layers of time.
And I watched him grab his ear, I watched the
blood streak across his cheek. I see him take himself down.
(09:33):
That was my first understanding that he might be okay.
But he takes himself down behind the podium, and I
remember like praying and saying, Dear God, please that someone's
protect him. That shooter, that that gunshot came over my
(09:55):
head right, that didn't come from the front where the
prodium would protect him. And then I kept thinking, well,
I hope everybody else is okay in the stands. And
then came the next four shots. In between those two rounds,
there was like a sea of secret service that surrounded him,
(10:15):
navy blue suits that were just a protective stance. You
could barely see him. If there was more bullets coming
his way, they were going to take them and I
can see his head, his face, he's holding his ear,
his hat is off, and then the Michelle Picard takes
(10:36):
me down.
Speaker 2 (10:36):
He knocks me down.
Speaker 3 (10:38):
And because I'm I in that moment, I have purpose.
My purpose is I'm a reporter. God give me this talent.
I need to chronicle what's happening, because this is being
This is what it is when you are a witness
to history and you have a depth of understanding. I've
always been graced with with sort of a great little recall.
(11:01):
I can remember things, I can remember smells, you know.
I can see dimensionally, so not just what's in front
of me, but I can see what's, you know, beyond,
in the background. And so, and I have my recorder on.
I always have my recorder on. And people say, well,
why would you record a speech. You can just get
(11:22):
the transcript. Well, what's important in reporting and often missed
is conversations are not a transcript, and speeches are not
a transcript because there's nuance in conversations, right, People's voices change.
You want to be able to capture that when you're
telling a story, because saying something one way, just writing
(11:43):
it flatly is very different than framing it with the
emotion that it's said, which is why I always record things,
so my recorders on, I kind of forget that. And
I watch him fight with the Secret Service to get
his shoes on, and there's a reason for that, and
(12:08):
the crowd starts chanting USA, and I can see him
mouth it. I can't hear him, but I can see
him say USA along with them at least twice. And
they get him up and they're want to take him away,
and he goes no, no, no, no no, or wait
wait wait. I think he said wait, wait, wait, and
he turns around and that's when he says fight White Fight.
(12:30):
And that moment, that decision is so pivotal to whatever
happens from that moment on through the rest of the campaign,
but also since January. That moment is so profound, and
why he says it. People don't understand why he said it,
(12:50):
but why he says it is even more profound.
Speaker 2 (12:55):
So listening to you, I mean, obviously, I think you're terrific,
and I read all your column and have for a
gajillion years, and proud to call you a fellow Pennsylvania
native and all the things. But I think the thing
that I really want people to pull away when they
listen to you. Is you're so embedded in the messaging,
right even down to the point of recording the voice
(13:18):
and getting the nuance because it's lost in a transcript.
It's so true and you think to yourself, oh, remember that,
but you won't. You won't remember that because there is
first of all, my god, you're on the Trump detail,
You're in the buffer. There's so much going on. To
even attempt to remember everything, all the things that are
happening around you, it's difficult, right, And you may even
(13:39):
give yourself a little note remember to talk about you know,
white shirt, red shorts, great USA had or whatever you're
going to add as an anecdote, right, because they give
color to those people who couldn't make it. To Butler,
I mean, to be perfectly frank, nobody heard of Butler
before this incident, you know what I mean. They're like,
where the heck is Butler Pennsylvania. And the fact that
he went back, I mean, the audacity and the whole
(14:04):
to me, it was like he was reclaiming it. I
know we're both very good friends with Sarah Carter, and
I was on the phone the day that Sarah Carter
showed up to cover it, right, and she's saying to me,
I can't even I can't even tell you how many
people are here. It's she goes, it's eight o'clock in
the morning, and it was like mombed, you know, and
it just shows, you know, And I wasn't there. It
(14:26):
was one of those things. I was like, man, you know,
and I had an obligation for one of the kids,
and it was like, you make those choices, right. But
it's crazy to think how all of that sort of
culminated into this one moment, because I mean, I don't
know how you feel about Matthew Crooks, but my god,
I know I read some of your book and it's
like it was just strange, right. The calls they came
(14:49):
after the five hour call later with the FBI and
the dad. You know, you really delineated a lot of
that really well. And I again, guys, if you're listening,
this is Selena Zito. She wrote the book Butler. It's
out today. I urge you buy the audiobook, buy the
print book by it to day. It's on sale, by
the way, right, it's on sale today and tomorrow.
Speaker 3 (15:08):
It is on sale today and tomorrow on Amazon. And
it's true witness to history, not just what happened in Butler.
Why does he go to Butler? You know? And it's
a really deal detailed explanation about why there's only ever
been two US presidents that have campaigned for president in
Butler and the other one was JFK.
Speaker 2 (15:30):
So it's so funny. I was going to go to
that point and just talk about that whole idea. While
they were on opposite sides politically, they're both disruptors. They
both were men of the people, if you will, And
so I wanted to go back for a minute and
just ask you, how did your relationship with President Trump
come to be?
Speaker 3 (15:48):
Like?
Speaker 2 (15:48):
Where did this? I need to know the origins, you
know a little bit of where this all came from.
Speaker 3 (15:54):
Well, you know, if people have not read me before
or heard me before, I'm based in from Pennsylvania. The
region that I cover tends to be Appalachia, but also
the Great Lakes, Midwest Pennsylvania, Ohio, Michigan, and Wisconsin. And
I've always zigged where everyone zagged. I understood for a
(16:18):
while that this conservative populist coalition was forming, and so
I understood and my writing showed that, and so you
would see that in my coverage of Wisconsin, of Scott Walker,
right of Ohio, just how these states were changing. It
(16:39):
was very granular beginning in two thousand and six, but
something definitely was happening. And so his Pennsylvania guy, David Urban,
I had known forever, and so David is the one
that kept giving him my stories and trying to convince
him to sedu a sit down. Now, at the time
(17:01):
I did my first sit down with him, I was
a local reporter for the Pittsburgh Tribune Review. Well, I
was supposed to do it as that, but the day,
the day that they asked me to do the interview
was also my last day on the job. They had
urged people to take the buy out. It became clear
(17:24):
that if I didn't take the buy out and get
the you know, the money that you get when you
do a buy out there, I really would be fired.
After the buyer out was over, right, there was there
was that hint that boy, you should, you should really
take that. And so I was walking out of the
(17:44):
newsroom crying. And you know, newsrooms are like, especially old
school newsrooms are like the land of the misfit toys.
Speaker 2 (17:53):
I mean one right now, it's just totally.
Speaker 3 (17:56):
You all are doing wildly different things. You somehow come
together to produce a newspaper or produce a show, right.
And so I'm walking out and I get a call
from David Irban. He goes, hey, Selena, you have an
interview with Donald Trump in two days. And I was like, oh,
that's awesome. And I'm like, I don't have a job.
Speaker 2 (18:19):
I have no outlet. It's a princess in the.
Speaker 3 (18:22):
New York Times. And they're like, now, we're not interested.
And I called listen Daily Beast I think it was
a Daily Beast and maybe Political or Washington Post, I
can't remember. At this point, I caught a whole bunch
of them. Finally, I like exhausted, you know, And I
didn't even know these beats, like a cold call. It
(18:43):
like Glengarry Glenn Ross the word, and it was The
Atlantic that took.
Speaker 2 (18:49):
The story of all places.
Speaker 3 (18:51):
All places. I think I got paid two hundred dollars
for that job. It was two things happened in that
interview that I think started our mutual respect for each other.
I saw for it was at a Marcella shale coalition
convention in Pittsburgh, and he was not that interested in
(19:13):
the suits that were attending. He was very interested in
the people that put the event together. So after we
do the interview, and it was in that interview that
I said to him, you know, voters take you seriously,
but they don't take everything that you say literally, whereas
the press takes you everything that you say is literal,
(19:34):
and they don't take you very seriously. But what happened
in that moment is he's like, come on, take a
walk with me after the interview. I'm like, okay. So
we take a walk and he stops and talks to
the janitor. He talks to the guy that's pushing the
big carts of water. He's talking to the caterers that
(19:56):
are going to be serving all these c suite suits
that are out there waiting to hear Trump speak. And
his connective tissue with those people told me that you
know what, what what blaite people like him because he's
from the outer borough. He's not Manhattan, right, He's the
(20:17):
guy who had to punch his way up. And if
anybody's ever seen the movie Age of Innocence, that sort
of tear system in New York. If you're not old money,
you don't belong with the crowd. He and he had
that grit that is possessed by the working class people.
That's what they saw in him. That also c sweet
(20:37):
guys saw them in two because a lot of them
had to punch their way up to get there. So
that's sort of how that coalition. So that that is
where that that moment I said that to him, I'm like,
you're a really curious.
Speaker 2 (20:51):
Guy, a big collar billionaire.
Speaker 3 (20:54):
Yeah, you're asking all these questions of people that that
people don't expect you to be connected to. I think
began our respect for each other. Two weeks later, the
New York Post hired me to drive across the country
to do a story on again. I'm freelancing, right, I'm like,
(21:17):
barely making ends meet. I just want to finish this
election because I knew what was going to happen. And
why I knew what was going to happen was I
understood my state was changing our state, Pennsylvania. Right. Bill
Clinton had won our state by winning twenty eight of
our sixty seven counties and eroded every four years byzero
(21:41):
point one percent. If you're a nerd, you know this stuff.
By twenty twelve, Barack Obama had only won thirteen of
our counties.
Speaker 2 (21:51):
Yeah, it got very purple.
Speaker 3 (21:52):
Yeah, And that was telling me that the possibility was
going to happen. And there was ten counties that I
high identified that if Trump won just two thousand more
votes in those counties, he would win the election. Didn't
matter what happened in Pennsylvania or Pittsburgh and Philly. If
he won those ten more rural counties, he would win
(22:13):
the state. I drove across the country for the New
York Post on Route thirty and came back and wrote,
the selection's over. You all just don't know it yet.
I think he thought that was a pretty bowl like
rush Limbaugh at the time was whoa. I think Sean
(22:37):
did too, Sean in rush Limbaugh. And then that's when
the president started to really follow the work that I do.
And you know, it is not easy to be me
this person right there. Not because I'm a like a
cheerleader for the president. I just understand people, and I
(22:59):
could see the and change in people. Yeah, and and
so that's that's sort of where that mutual respect began.
And again he did get mad at me once but
you know, less than a year later, he made a
phone call to me. I was watching my four grandchildren,
(23:20):
who at the time were six, four, two and an infant,
and and he calls and I'm like trying to navigate
four children. He is laughing his head off, and that
was that was it. Everything was good.
Speaker 2 (23:42):
It just humanized it all. I mean, honestly, kids are
the best thing ever. So it really does. You know,
he was wonderful with children. I mean, you know, he
met my son. We went h we did it. We
were at one of his rallies and he did this
sit down with Sean Hannity and and we were in
the front row and Sean was, you know, pointing me
(24:03):
out and he goes and that's her son, Liam. And
he came over and shook Liam's hand, and Liam was like,
I don't I don't understand what's happening right now, like totally.
My older kids were there too, but it was like
and he had a picture from my niece which he
gave to the President and the President took it very graciously,
and I just was like, this is surreal. I hadn't
(24:23):
even met him yet. Yeah, which was pretty funny, you know.
So it was like a moment for me. But back
to back to Butler and your book out today. You know,
I think obviously people want to read this account because
it's firsthand. You're there, you you saw it, you smelt it,
you felt it, you saw all the other people and
what they went through. And obviously we lost some really
(24:44):
wonderful people that day who the President has honored, you
know since then so many times, which is amazing. But
I think if I was going to ask you one
question about the book, what would you think? What do
you want people to come away with just their own interpretation.
Is there some thing about the book that you're like,
I really hope they get.
Speaker 3 (25:02):
This, and I hope they get and understand that America
changed in that moment, And and reading my reporting every
day on the road, right, I don't fly, I don't
even go in interstates. I only take back roads, seeing
(25:23):
how this election unfolded, seeing how bad I was also
covering Harris, seeing how bad she was doing in the
decisions that she made that has not been prosecuted in
the in the in the blogosphere, whatever whatever we want
to call it, in a way that it should be,
(25:44):
because there were some believable terrible mistakes made in the
most important state in the country, the ones that you
should never ever make. And I and I think that
that there was also a joy that they will find
in this book, because there were moments that were joyful
(26:05):
like McDonald's.
Speaker 2 (26:08):
And also there was five minutes from my house by
the way I did that. I was like, this is wild.
I'm like, this is so great.
Speaker 3 (26:17):
That was great. I was there. But also I remember
the Madison Square garden thing, right, and the garbage thing,
and every reporter, every single reporter I knew, said this
is it. It's over, it's done. He's lost them. And
I go out to eastern PA in the most populist
(26:39):
city in the state of people that are from Puerto Rico,
and you know, there's supposed to be this big protest
because he's coming to do a rally, big protests. They've
left him. And there were six people at the protest,
and so find one voter that left him, No, not one.
Speaker 2 (27:04):
Let me tell you something. You know what I learned
from the garbage truck moment, aside from the fact that
it happened around Halloween and every child I knew wanted
to be a garbage truck man, I mean, do you
remember that grown men dressing up as garbage truck men?
Speaker 3 (27:17):
My whole neighborhood, the whole neighborhoods. Yes.
Speaker 2 (27:20):
I was like, okay, you know he did the exact opposite.
It said to me two things. One, nothing is beneath
this man. Nothing And two, whoever he got to turn
that truck around that fast? Oh my god, they must
have started working on it the second it happened. I know,
not incredible.
Speaker 3 (27:39):
And a couple of days later this was, this was
a powerful moment. He has this event in Pittsburgh. He has,
uh it's the night before the election. So it's a
couple of days later after after garbage and and the
place he has has a peep arena and it is
(28:03):
packed and I see people lined up for a half
a mile in each direction to get in. And I'm
looking and this is a phenomenon I kept writing about.
But guys, there's a lot of young people here. Oh
by the way, guys, these crowds are really diverse. How
how are you not writing about this? Where is your
(28:24):
intellectual curiosity? And I remember the next night was election night. Yeah,
and I had a reporter, a local reporter come up
to me and say, I'm just going to have to
disagree with your story about the diversity and the young people.
Speaker 2 (28:39):
And I'm like, I, you know, I don't make a
selfie together and get the background.
Speaker 3 (28:45):
I mean, you know, I was there too, and I said,
well then your eyes weren't wide open. But at that
event sat Roberto Clemente Junior. He's born in Puerto Rico.
He is a pillar of the community, the Clemente family.
People don't know who ROBERTA Clemente is. He was the
(29:06):
best bag baseball player that ever was from Puerto Rico
and his children were born there too, and he's a
pillar of the community. He runs the Clemente Foundation, and
he is boldly sitting right there to to to welcome
President Trump, and and then Megan Kelly is there, and
(29:27):
then the announcement comes through that Joe Rogan has endorsed him. Right,
you have like all this diversity of thought, experience, ethnic background,
and nobody wrote it but me, and it frustrated the
heck out of me. So I think that people will
see and be able to feel the real truth that
(29:49):
was going on in this in this election. But also
you know, the reckoning with my with my profession.
Speaker 2 (29:57):
I think it's amazing you. You really did do something
that is very difficult, which was you stood alone. Yeah,
and to standalone is very difficult when everyone in your
industry is staring at you, oh.
Speaker 3 (30:10):
Yeah, and or you at all throwing tweets at me
that aren't doing nice.
Speaker 2 (30:16):
Well, that's I mean to your point. I mean, you
started the interview by saying I didn't get in this
business because I didn't have a thick skin. I'm Italian, right,
you're right because as many people that love you, and
I always say this. You know, my mother told me
this growing up and it's very very true, as are
many things she has told me in my life, which
is you will always hear more negative than positive because
positive people are not wishing you ill. They're saying, oh
(30:38):
my god, she's amazing, and then they move on with
their day.
Speaker 1 (30:41):
Right.
Speaker 2 (30:41):
But the people that are saying negative, like oh I
don't like doing this, there are and they like just
dwell in it and it just projects it. It's like,
oh god, could you please, you know, get a hobby.
But it's like you just persevered. You're like, no, I
was there, this is real. I was there with my daughter.
We experience this. I'm gonna run a book about it.
You guys are going to read it, and it is
(31:02):
the truth and nobody can take it away.
Speaker 3 (31:05):
I didn't go to an Ivy league school. I went
to community college a waitress. I have worked in a
sewer treatment plant. I have been the cafeteria lady. I
have been a shampoo girl.
Speaker 2 (31:17):
So I.
Speaker 3 (31:20):
I understand the people that I cover, and I respect them,
and I thank them so much for letting me into
their homes and their businesses and soccer fields and bulling
alleys and diners and letting me be able to tell
their story in an incredibly meaningful way.
Speaker 2 (31:38):
Well, I think you have done that in spades. I
think you are by far one of the most talented writers.
I loved reading what you wrote before I ever knew you,
and then I was like, I have to be friends
with her. How do I do that? Okay, I'll just
keep emailing her and telling her that I like her
and I want her to come on every show that
I work on, and that's what we did. But I
have to say every time I would say to somebody,
(31:58):
oh did you read that piece by Selene Azito, Because
first of all, your website's great. And wherever you you know,
I always what is it? Nowhere is the no somewhere
right everything in the middle of somewhere. And I was like, man,
that isn't that the truth? It's no, it's my god. Butler, Like.
Speaker 3 (32:18):
My family was one of the founding families of Butler.
No kidding the seventeen fifties. Wow, they served in the
American Revolution, they served in the French and India War.
My family, my family was one of the founding families
of Butler. So I'm very rooted. And also, place is
(32:38):
really important. It's a nuance in American politics that posters
and strategists don't understand and a set how much place
means to someone when they're guiding their vote, and that
is that is a theme throughout the book that I
hope that people start to really reflect and think about.
Speaker 2 (33:01):
Well, I'll tell you what, ladies and gentlemen. Selena Zito,
She's fantastic. Her new book, Butler, is out today. Please
get it. You can get it on Amazon. Continue to
read our article. Selena Zito, thank you so much for
being on the Roague Recap.
Speaker 3 (33:13):
Thank you, my friend.
Speaker 2 (33:14):
We'll see you next time.
The Sean Hannity Show News
Host
Sean Hannity
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.