March 20, 2020 • 34 mins
Ep.172 - David Brody from Elvis Duran and The Morning Show and Jamie from Lite FM in NYC break down The Walking Dead S10 12 "Walk With Us"
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Ms people housing charge here. The rules are Welcome to
Walkers and Talkers. Episode one seventy two. I'm David Brodie
from melvinstare In the Morning show, and my co host
Jamie from Light FM in New York is not joining
(00:21):
us today. You may have noticed everyone is quarantined and
working from home, so I am broadcasting to live from
the basement studio I know, not the car studio. The
Dodge charger is not being used today. Jamie hopefully be
back next episode, but we are all working from home
and Jamie is not quite up to speed yet on
doing a podcast from her house, so bear with me.
(00:44):
I will try to give you as much snappy banter
as possible. This was an unbelievable episode. Will be I'll
be talking about um. But let's get to some Walking
Dead news. First. Talking Dead is back after a one
week hiatus. They shut down the studio. Uh, and they're
doing a show somehow uh. Sunday Night. Scott M. Gimple
(01:04):
is going to be one of your hosts, as will
super fan Evette Nicole Brown. Now Vette Nicole Brown has
been on Talking Dead a lot. In fact, she co
hosted while she hosted the show when Chris Hardwick was
out because of the scandal he was dealing with. UM
and Uh. She's very friendly woman, but social media was
(01:25):
not liking her very much. Uh said they're tired of her.
Don't know why she's always on a lot of people
like The Walking Dead. Why do they keep going to
her as an expert? Uh? Me personally, I would agree
she's probably on too much. I get it, she takes notes,
she's adorable, that's great. She's fun at least she thinks
she is. But I think it's too much. But if
(01:46):
she's all that was available, that could be part of it.
UM cast members maybe didn't want to fly to California.
I know last week Jesus was gonna be on and
I guess uh, Samantha Morton and maybe um uh your
Gamma Birch was gonna be on Thor Birch, but we'll
get to that later. So it's Scott M. Gimpbl Evett,
(02:08):
Nicole Brown. They released pictures for the new episode, which
will be focused on Machine and Virgil. In it, you'll
see Machine has new pets, uh, and she's clearly captured
at some point because she is on the floor with
a food tray a metal prison like food tray. They
released the first few few minutes of season UH ten
(02:32):
of the latest episode, and if you watch it, it
is in essence a clip from season two episode thirteen, which,
if you remember, was Micheon's first appearance. At that point,
of course, was not being played by Denied Garreau. It
was just a woman in a hood. You couldn't see
who it was, but that is when you saw Andrea
(02:52):
running in the woods fighting off walkers. She falls, one
falls on her, and in season two shown used her
sword and cut the walker in half, and that's how
they became friendly. In this clip, for some reason, Machine
stares at what's going on with her pets, you know,
the no armed, no jaws walkers on chains, uh, and
(03:16):
she just watches Andrew get killed and walks away. So
what does this mean? Is this her thinking about what
would happen in her life if she didn't always help people?
What would her life be like? Because I'm assuming she's
not thrilled that she helped Virgil and now she's screwed
on this island, uh captured, and we don't know what's
(03:38):
gonna happen. So I'll give you my predictions on the
episode at the end of all of this. Um, but
it is her last episode. People were on AMC's Walking
Dead Instagram page complaining that they advertised it as Machine's
last episode. UM. I'm of the thought that if you're
a fan of the show, you should know, because it
(03:58):
was announced a year ago that this is her last episode,
and you can't blame AMC's social media for wanting to
promote it. They need people to tune in. Speaking of
tuning in, the Walking Dead's ratings were up this past
week three point five million live viewers um in the
Key eighteen forty nine demo. The the episodes this season
(04:19):
have been averaging around two point nine to three million,
so up a half a million. That's the highest it's
been since episode two this season. So it's always good
when the ratings are good. That means our show is
going to stick around. Uh. In the trailer coming up
for this episode, Michean learns that the wife and children
of Virgil Um that he was so desperate to return
(04:40):
to are dead. They died of the same sickness that's
infecting everyone and now they're walkers. And Virgil apparently lied
to Machine just to get her to come with him
to help him put down his own family, which he
calls rippers. That's what his term for the zombies is.
(05:03):
He said, my family is still in there, I guess
in some building, my wife, my babies. That's why I
asked you to come. So he said, I needed you
to come. I'm not good at this, and uh, you
might have to go through some armed enemies. Um, if
you want to get those weapons that you want. So
Virgil's a snake. Um, he was selfish and lied for
(05:24):
his own benefit. But that then again most people do
in this world. She's ma shown is lured into some room.
The door is shut and locked behind her. So we
know for a fact somebody captures our I doubt it
was Virgil. Um, but somebody set the boat on fire.
We saw that in one of the trailers. Thanks trailer guy. Um,
so there you go. Uh, if you watch on AMC Premier,
(05:48):
there's a still shot graphic from every episode that is
sort of like the wallpaper for that episode. So when
you go to watch season ten, episode twelve, Walk with Us,
it's Alpha kissing Nigan. So every time I paused it,
uh to watch on Friday night, I had to watch
look at the picture of Alpha kissing Nigan, which is
(06:10):
just gross. So let's talk about the episode, and I
have some more notes that I'll give you throughout UM
as we go. So the episode starts off Carol is
shooting walkers with a bow and arrow, which to me
seemed like a waste of time. She's up on the
fence of Hilltop as the building is burning, and at
best she's picking off one of two walkers. Now I
(06:30):
guess that's better than none, but I feel like if
she had a knife or a sword, she could be
doing more damage down on the ground. Since the previous episode,
they must have gotten inside the walls. The fire burned
a hole in the main gate, so the Horde has
now entered the grounds of Hilltop and the survivors are
doing their best to fight them off using their shields.
(06:52):
Earl and Alden are flinging um slingshot scoops of boulders
or something onto the walkers. Um some miscellaneous survivor gets
taken down by a walker uh, and Kelly saves them
before they get killed. Darryl kills a whisperer because that,
I guess has to show that some of these walkers
are actually whispers who are in the front of the pack.
(07:14):
King Ezekiel has all of the kids and he can't
find Judith. She is uh swinging her sword and killing walkers.
She gets one of them in the gut. He falls
to the ground, his mask falls off, and he's a whisperer. Uh.
He says, please don't kill me. He begs for his life.
She doesn't kill him, but eventually he dies I guess
from the sword injury. And she's a bit traumatized by that.
(07:37):
Earl grabs her snaps her back into reality. The Hilltop
building is burning. Eugene looks up at his radio room.
He realizes his radio, the source of his connection to
the commonwealth, is burning. He makes a run inside to
save it, and we see Rosia going after him. That's
the last we see of them for the time being.
(07:58):
Yumico sees Magna walking with the dead. I don't know
about you, but for not even a second that I
think she was dead. Um. She has dirt and blood
on her face, and she was I guess walking with them, uh,
covered in blood, and of course, of all people, she
sees you, Muco. I'm calling coincidence bullshit on that, um.
(08:18):
And that is all before the credits, So a very
exciting first scene before the credits. UH cut to the
next morning. I guess we're to assume that everybody ran
out some back way, which we've seen before, and they
all agree to meet up at a rendezvous point. So
I guess they all didn't leave together. Um Nigan is
(08:38):
walking through bodies and dead dead dead walkers and he's
dragging his bat. He comes up on what looks like
a Hilltop member because they're wearing armor, they're missing an
arm and struggling. I guess it's a walker struggling for
its last breath or it's a human being. I guess
it's a human being. And he hits it in the
head with his bat and kills it. Alpha sees it
(08:59):
and as him next time to go to the heart,
not to miss and don't do it again. In other words,
she wants all of the dead to become walkers. So
I guess this was a surviving member hill Top, but
of course not a main member, so nobody cares. There'll
be no funeral. Uh. Nigan acts like it was an
honest mistake, but we know for a fact, and we've
seen later and we see later in the episode that
he's not really a big fan of creating more Walkers, um,
(09:22):
and it was certainly no accident. Nigan tells Alpha she
does not know how to enjoy her victory, and she
says it's not a victory until I have everything I want,
and Nigan says lydia, and Beta walks up and says
it's not really a concern, and he says to Alpha,
I promise to bring I bring her to you. Uh,
if she's not among the dead already. Alpha walks away. Uh.
(09:45):
Nigan walks up to Beta and says, I am at
your service, Frannie mctwo knives. And that line, by the way,
is right out of the comic books, so I'm glad
they got to use that line. Beta tells them to
herd the Guardians, and Nigan starts bitching about I'm on
walker patrol or something. That's the first time I think
we've heard Nigan refront of them as Walkers, which means
he is um maybe assimilating with the survivors and using
(10:08):
their terminology. He calls Beta dick and walks away. Gotta
love Nigan sometimes, even though you know he killed Glenn
and Abraham's spoiler. Nigan goes into the woods, sees a walker,
so he acts like a walker. The walker walks right
by him as if Nigan was a walker, which frustrates Neigan,
who says, screw this, points the bat at the walker
(10:29):
gets his attention. The walker turns around, comes to him,
and Egan smashes his head with the bat and starts laughing. Uh.
Two more walker's approach. It looks like he's gonna go
beat them to death too, and then he sees Lydia
jumping limping off in the background. I'm calling coincidence bullshit
on that as well. Uh, that is not the biggest
coincidence bullshit in this episode, but certainly one of them. Uh.
(10:51):
Cut to Aaron. Um, he's dragging uh and injured Luke
on a metal shingle of some kind. When he sees Nigan,
I guess who was walking after Lydia wearing a whisperer
mask and holding his bat. So he knows now that Nigan,
who escaped, is working with the whispers. He takes off
(11:12):
his strap around his neck to pull the body and
he looks like he's gonna get ready to fight Nigan.
Negan says, Aaron, don't do anything stupid and Aaron says,
you anything stupid would be not killing you now again
the way Gama a couple episodes ago didn't do a
good job of defending herself. Nigan says, I can explain,
but Aaron doesn't want to hear it. Now at that point,
(11:33):
wouldn't you say, hey, man, I'm working covertly x Nate.
Three walkers approach from uh behind Nigan, who again just
the mask and no blood, and they don't bother him.
I think there's a little too convenient by the way. Anyway.
They walk by Nigan, who walks off like I gotta go,
and he leaves Aaron to fight for himself. Um Lydia's
(11:57):
in the woods, limping badly. I guess she was wounded
in the fight. She's got a walking stick when Nigan
finds her, cool incidence bullshit. She smiles when she sees him,
but then she's she sees he's holding a whisper a mask,
and now she's like, oh, what the hell did I
get into. He grabs her and says stop, this ship
is done. At this point, we don't know if the
(12:19):
whisper thing is done, meaning you know I'm not a
whisper or her running away is done. Cut to all
then carrying little baby Adam Kelly and Mary Gamma. I'm
gonna call her Mary Gamm until I pick a name. Uh.
They're walking through the woods by themselves. Uh, they're looking
to meet up at the rendezvous point. Um, we already
(12:41):
know they're gonna get trapped in a car. Thanks trailer guy.
Mary office to help because the baby is crying. Um,
and all that says, I thought I told you to
stay back. So all that is still not for giving
her things. She's terrible, wants nothing to do with her advice.
She says, if you rub the back of his head
um and tickle him and the baby, he keeps crying,
it doesn't work. Um, and he's find you try it.
(13:04):
Of course, as soon as he gives the baby to Gamma,
the baby stops crying immediately because she's family. Alden asks
Mary what her sister's name was, and she says Francis.
So maybe they're breaking down the wall just a little bit. Uh.
They're sitting on some log logs, just killing time. Mary
hears birds starting to fly and make noise. She knows
(13:26):
from being a whisperer that means the walkers are coming. Uh,
She's like, we gotta move, and all of a sudden,
as walkers in every direction. Rather than try to outrun them,
they find an old minivan to get into and Mary
locks them in and runs off, screaming to get the
walkers to follow her, which most of them do. Um.
(13:46):
She kills about seven or eight of them, and she
looks very proud of herself, And as she turns around,
Beta steps up and stabs her in the abdomen. He says,
you're gonna walk with us and she says never, and
she pulls off half of his mask, which pisces him
off even more. He takes the knife and runs it
up her chest and kills her. Oh that's gotta be
(14:07):
a horrible way to die. Um. Another whisperer comes walking
up uh to uh Beta and says, it's you. I
thought I recognized your voice. I thought it sounded familiar.
Now I don't know how he recognized him his dirty,
unshaven face from a third of his mask being pulled away. Um.
(14:27):
They really should have made it look more obvious, truthfully,
like maybe she pulled the mask off his head for
a second, but they don't want the audience to see
what he looks like meaning us. So the guy's like, hey,
I know you kept your identity. He doesn't really say this,
but he's like, oh, I know you kept your identity
a secret. Um, but I I know who you are.
You're the famous guy trying to keep anyone from knowing
(14:49):
who you are. So of course Beta kills him immediately,
like day walker. I'm so like the whisperer that saw
Alpha crying. You knew he was going to be dead
in a second. Anyway. Beta puts Gamma up against the tree.
She turns into a walker, uh and as she walks
towards Beta, an arrow goes through her head, killing her instantly.
Again it's alden Um. I have to ask why he
(15:13):
didn't kill Beta. I don't understand this. He had every
opportunity clearly to kill him, and yet he decides to
put Gamma out of her misery, which she could have
done after he killed Beta. This is why sometimes the
bad guys always live, because they poorly right away for
them to stay alive. Cut to Carol in the woods
(15:33):
with Eugene, who's crying over his melted radio. Uh. Humko
is sitting with Magna telling the story of what happened
she said. They kept looking for a way out of
the cave, she and Connie, and they ended up in
the middle of the hoard. She said, the sickos, which
is what they call them, got between her and Connie.
Her hand slipped out of hers and she couldn't find
her again. Now the question is is this the truth?
(15:56):
Is she telling the truth that that's what happened in
the cave. Now we already know that Connie's gonna be
out for a while, maybe not until the final episode,
maybe until magnet Um sorry Maggie comes back and saves her.
But there was an interesting story written on the website
Fans Sided, and it talks about the two cave episodes
that we saw earlier in the second half and how
(16:19):
they're based on a movie called The Descent. We talked
about this when it happened, and The Descent was about
some cannibalistic, weird looking mutated creatures and a group of
young women that were trapped in the cave and they
pick off the women one by one and at some point,
(16:39):
um Juno, one of the women left another friend to
die after accidentally injuring her. So she's like, oh, you're injured.
I'm leaving you here gotta go. Um. Later on, another woman, Sarah,
finds out that she did this, and after the two
of them fight off all the creatures, she shows Juno
(17:05):
a feather of some kind of metal feather I guess
a key chain or an ear ring that she took
off of the third friend they left to die, and
now she knows that Juno left her to die. I
didn't see the movie. I'm assuming that the third friend
told Sarah um that Juno left her to die. Anyway,
she takes what looks to be like a a pick
(17:26):
and sticks it in Juno's leg as they hear more
of these creatures coming, so that the creatures will eat
Juno and Sarah can make her escape. If this sounds familiar,
we saw Shane shoot Otis in the leg in season
two so that he could get away while all the
Walkers ate Otis. Spoiler Otis is dead. Um. So people
(17:50):
are thinking, now it's a possibility that maybe Magna, who
we already know is out for ourself when she was
stealing supplies for herself, maybe she a bandoned Connie so
she can make an escape. So I guess we're gonna
find that out. Um. But if you look what happened
in the movie that the episodes were based on, Uh,
it doesn't look very good for Magna. Now if you
(18:13):
look at the scene with Magnet and Connie, which let
me talk about that scene and then we'll go back
to this movie comparison. Carol says they should move on
before it gets dark, and Yumico says Magnet has been
through too much she needs to rest. Carol says, rest
all you want, I'm leaving, and Yumico says, you're gonna
leave her again like you did the last time, meaning
in the cave when it was Carol's fault. So Yumuico says,
(18:35):
how about you apologize to her and beg her for forgiveness?
And Carol says, do you think that's what she wants
would do any good? We go through shipped, to go
through ship like very cavalier, like that's just life, and
Yumico punches cal right in the face and walks away
and Carol does nothing. Then Magnet tells Umico she didn't
want her to do that. They start fighting and Magne says,
(18:58):
I don't want to do this any more. She said,
excuse me, she says. She says I was mad the
last time we talked when you kicked me out, but
you were right. They break up. I guess, uh, and
they hold hands as if they understood. Carol walks off
and sits down on a log. So so Carol walks off.
So here's the rest of the Insider article. And they said,
(19:21):
do you think Magna's story to Umico about saying you
were right? I don't want to argue. I wish you
didn't had Carol. Remember, this is the same woman who
blamed Carol for trapping them in the cave. Was very
angry Carol, and now she doesn't want to be angry.
Carol doesn't want anybody else mad a Carol Um and
(19:42):
then tells Umico, I totally get while you were mad
at me. Um. I'm thinking she feels guilty about Connie
and maybe she's just as bad as Carol and now
understands why Carol does what she does. UM. So let's
keep an eye on that. Uh. In episodes fourteen, fifteen
and sixteen. Anyway, Carol sitting on a log, and just
(20:06):
where she sat down, a walker comes from under the leaves.
Have you ever seen a walker just hiding out under leaves?
Not moving. She seems to not be taking the walker
very seriously, and the walker is scratching at her leg
and she keeps letting it do that. Finally she brushes
it away. Now people are saying this is a comparison
to the comics I think episode forty, issue forty two
(20:28):
where Carol in the comics, who has had mental problems
and committed suicide by walker, let a walker eat her
neck and die. So people were saying that maybe this
was a a tribute to that in the comics, because
obviously Carol isn't dead in the In the TV show,
Eugene comes by uh and watches her killed walker. He says,
(20:51):
I want to make sure you're okay. He then goes
on to tell sort of tell the story about the
person he's supposed to meet up with, Uh, Stephanie. He says,
I have an important meeting coming up, and because hill
tipe Top has gone it wouldn't I won't be able
to attend that meeting, and Uh, Carol says, it's not
often you find someone you care for like that, And
(21:12):
Carol says, tells him it's important you go to her.
I guess you put two and two together. It was
a woman. He says, I don't want to leave hill top.
He says, I don't want to leave. He is, but
he tells Carol, I hope you get what you want,
meaning revenge or whatever I'm calling coincidence bullshit Again in
the leaves where Carol is sitting just happens to be
lying in the grass or in the leaves laying there
(21:35):
is Lydia's walking stick. So at that point Carol knows
Lydia is around. Um. Darryl's group is walking down uh
down a hill with Rosita Jerry. Jerry's wife is injured
in a bunch of people we don't know. They're walking
across the field. Um. Now that remember the knife wound
in Daryl's leg that was bleeding profusely, That is now
(21:57):
a cloth tied in a knot around his pants, So
I guess he's wolverine recovering quickly. Um. Diana is there
also by the way. UM. Rosita says. People are asking
about the kids, and Darryl says, don't worry. Ezekiel has them.
They should be at the rendezvous spot, which we already
know they aren't because we know from the trailer they
are with Earl. Thanks trailer guide. Um. They arrive at
(22:20):
the rendezvous point, which is a bunch of abandoned cabins.
There's a walker there, but no people. Jerry's wife starts
freaking out about her babies, her babies. Uh. He tells
everyone to spread out and go looking for them, which
doesn't seem like good advice. Um, but we know Earl
has the kids in a in a little, small concrete house.
(22:41):
Judith says she doesn't know where Ezekiel is to Earle,
there was so much smoke. Um. But thanks to the
pictures from Picture Guy. Uh. Future episodes coming up, we
know that Ezekiel, Umico and Eugene go to Commonwealth, so
we know Ezekiel is not dead at this point. Uh.
They're about ten kids in this little house. Fortunately for Earl,
(23:02):
somebody hung up drapes to cordon off this little shack
into two rooms. And by the way, Earl stepped up
his game. We talked about that that he was the
voice of reason, he was the moral compass um. And
of course, once you make a guy look good, you
know he's not long for this earth. Um. He goes
behind the curtain to be by himself. He looks terrible
(23:23):
clearly he's been bitten. He bangs a spike from the
underside of the table so it sticks up through the table.
His arm is badly bitten. I guess he didn't want
to cut his own arm off, and nobody could have
done it for him, although Judy has that sword. Judith
rather Judith walks in and said, you lie to us,
Um and it looks like he's gonna kill himself on
the spike. She says, don't do it. She says, Um
(23:47):
he has. He says he has no choice, and she said, well,
then I'll stay with you so you don't have to
be alone. This kid man she's ten years old and
she's she's more adult than a lot of the adults.
And Earl said, Alden, it will take care of Adhim
and tells her how strong and brave she is, and
she needs to go keep the kids safe from him.
(24:07):
Go back in there and don't come near me again.
She holds his hand and walks away. Very touching scene.
Jerry and Darryl returned to hilltop. They find King Ezekiel
under some sheet metal. Um was he hiding? Was the
brave king hiding? That doesn't seem right anyway, as soon
as they find him, he says, Earl's got the kids,
(24:28):
so now they gotta go find Earl. Um back to
the cabin with Earl. Um. He's staring at the spike
and he shoves his head onto it. We don't see it,
but he kills himself on the spike and he goes
out like a hero. Good for you, Earl. Your wife's dead,
your son is dead. Um. You know they would have
(24:48):
been proud. Judith goes in to check on him and
finds him dead. But if you notice, his head is
not on the spike, UM, which says to me it
was not a direct hit or he's a walker. Uh.
And he moved his head off the spike, UM, so
he must have. I don't know. The spike must have
gone into his eye but didn't and he bled out
but it didn't go through his brain. So she has
(25:11):
some reason. She walks up to him. He grabs her arm. Um.
Daryl walk opens the door to the cabin. All of
the kids run out except Judith. Darryl walks in the
back room and see Judah sitting on the floor because
obviously she killed Earl, and he goes and sits down
next to and hugs her. Definitely all the fields there.
Back to Nigan, he walks up to Alpha. He said,
(25:33):
that thing you've been looking for, I found it. Now
we already know that's Lydia and we see her tied
to a chair in a cabin. Um. At this point,
we still don't know which side Nigan is on. By
the way, this Lydia in a cabin thing, which we'll
get to remind. I'll remind myself there's nobody here to
remind me. Um. That's a commonly used trick, which we'll
(25:54):
talk about. Uh, and we'll get to uh the big,
big scene right after this. Okay. So Alpha and Nigan
are walking through the woods and Uh and says uh.
She says to Nigan, it's time for you to leave
your pride behind and become and become a lion, meaning
(26:15):
your followers. He asked if that means she wants him
to spread her gospel on his own, to form another tribe.
And he says, listen, I'm not hip to the whole
Greek alphabet thing. But Beta is no Alpha, and isn't
it the young lioness who takes the lions place? So
at this point, what he's saying is you know, shouldn't
Beta be a boss, shouldn't he be promoted to uh
(26:40):
normally to take your place or run his own pride?
He says, But if you're asking me, he's no Alpha,
meaning I don't think he's the leader type. He's more
of a follower. And then you see Nigan is trying
to uh really stick up for Lydia, saying, you know,
shouldn't the the lioness take over the lions place, like
you know, you don't want to kill her? And Alpha says,
(27:01):
just walk And they keep showing Lydia trying to escape
as as they're walking towards this cabin, we still don't
know if he's taking her to the right cabin or not,
which we will find out shortly. Nigan starts telling Alpha
about his wife and how she had pancreatic cancer. Um,
(27:22):
and she was still beautiful even when she was sick
and lost all her hair, which, by the way, I
guess is why he might find Alpha a tractor being bald.
Alpha says, be grateful that death set her free. He says,
after she was gone, he was never really happy. I
didn't feel scared, I didn't feel anything, um, and that
is my strength in other words, just nothing meant nothing
(27:43):
was important and Nigan, he says, but he says, this
world is dead to me. I'm dead to this world.
I feel nothing. But Alpha, you claim you feel nothing,
and you're pretending. He said people are animals and have
no emotion. You say that's bullshit. Explicit he said, you
claim you have to kill your daughter, your own flesh
(28:03):
and blood. H And Alpha says that's her destiny. She says,
that disease that took your wife, that was nature. She
couldn't take you with her, but you live every day
wishing she could. In other words, you wish that you
died with your wife. She says, Lydia was made for
this to be free with me. As that's going on,
Lydia breaks loose off her ropes. Nigan says to Alpha
(28:26):
that she's still Um. You still love your daughter. Um.
Alpha says, I will always love her. That's why I
have to kill her. That's why I have to do it. Um. Now, look,
we know Lydia. I'm sorry. We know Nigan loves kids,
and we know he loves Lydia, so there is no
way he's letting her kill Lydia. At this point, Nigan
(28:48):
and Alpha kiss passionately. UM, and I'm like oh um,
and then I wrote, if this is anything like the comics,
this is going to end poorly in a second. Um.
If you haven't seen the comics, just google um what
happens to Alpha in a second uh, and you'll see
(29:10):
the picture of Nigan doing the same thing. Alpha starts
walking towards the cabin. Lydia is struggling together her leg ties.
Nigan is right behind her. Lydia opens the door and
it's a field and nowhere near where Alpha and Nigan are.
This is a common UH trope in movies and TV
shows where you think someone's about to walk in and
(29:33):
they opened the door and the places empty and you
realize the person who was trapped or escaping or being
held is not in the location you thought. So not
the most original of ways to handle this, um. Alpha
walks into the cabin. There's nothing there. Um. This was
also similar to a scene in Goodfellas where Joe Pesci
(29:53):
walks into a room where he thinks he's about to
be a made man, which is a mafia UH ceremony me,
and he sees the room as empty. And this was
the same reaction Alpha had. Uh you can figure out
what happened to Joe Pesci spoiler Good Fellas is twenty
years old. You should have seen it by now anyway. Um,
(30:14):
you could see that Nigan had his hand on his
knife when she opened the door. Um. And Uh, she
turns around and he slits her throat, just like in
the comics. Uh. And by the way, he did it
much better than Rick did when Rick slit Nigan's throat
because he survived. Um. He kisses her as he lowers
her head down to the ground to die. And I wrote,
(30:36):
Carol definitely sent him there to do that. So this
is exactly what happened in the comics, except in the
comics he did it to prove to Rick he was
a changed man. And he cuts off her head and
gives the head. He cuts off her head, gives Alpha's
head to Rick. But Rick is gone and so um
(30:58):
you see in the next scene her head is in
a bag bleeding. Um, it's her head as a walker.
He rolls it to the ground and oh what talent.
It beautifully lands facing Carol, Um, perfectly facing her, and
it's Alpha as a walker. And she looks at Nigan
and says it took you long enough, and I know
(31:22):
everybody watching went yes like I did, even though I
kind of figured it out. Uh and Nigan smiles at
her like, yeah, you know I did. Um. I'm not
sure how he found where Carol was. Um. You know,
as far as how did they meet up, they didn't
exactly talk to each other on a cell phone, So
I'm calling bullshit there. Um. There was no talking dead
(31:44):
because the show was put on hiatus. However, I did
want to talk about Samantha Morton um before we get
out of here, so I'll do that right after this, Okay,
so um. Samantha Morton was interviewed now that she is
deceased spoiler Alpha's dead. They asked her if she knew
(32:05):
her character's fate when she first joined the show or
was given the role. She said, I kind of always
knew because when I was in discussions with Angela Kang
in the early stages that I was potentially going to
play Alpha, it was very clear this character would have
her head chopped off. So I always knew. Yep, I
just knew. Um. Kristin A Kuna from the Insider who
did the interview, says, did you know Jeffrey Dean Morgan
(32:28):
was going to wind up killing you. Uh you know
the words Nigan? She says, yes, very clearly. On I
knew my whole story arc wasn't really a surprise, it
was all known. Um So. Then she's asked, what do
you think was going through Alpha's mind when she was
killed by Nigan because she wasn't expecting it. Um So
(32:51):
Morton says, I think it's very quick, so I don't
think very much is going through her mind other than shock.
It's instantaneous. I think when she's dying, when she's eating out,
she's hoping that he will lead the whispers. That's what
she's hoping for, and so that's not gonna happen obviously.
Next question, do you think Alpha regrets not having killed
Nigan in the woods when she had a chance? Um
(33:12):
And Samantha Warton says, in that moment when she's dying, no,
not at all, No regrets. Um And they asked her
if she watches the show, what does she think of
the show and her performance. She says, I don't watch
anything I'm in. Um I've never watched myself and anything
until years later. For me personally, I don't watch myself
each week. I just it just doesn't work for me. Um,
(33:33):
if the director needed me to watch something to change
my performance, I would, But no, I can't watch myself.
It's like when you hear your voice on the answering
machine message for the first time, you're like, oh, is
that what I sound like? Uh No, oh my gosh,
I can't do that. If you remember, Andrew Lincoln also
said he doesn't watch himself. UM, I will be honest
with you, I occasionally listen back to these podcasts to
(33:54):
hear what we sound like, to make sure they're good
and that they're entertaining and that there's enough snappy banter.
I'm sorry Jamie wasn't here for this episode, but if
you're at this point in the podcast, thank you very
much for being loyal for listening to the whole thing.
Even though Jamie's not here, we all miss her terribly.
Please remember to tweet her at the Talking Jamie and
(34:15):
let her know you missed her, and hopefully she'll be
back for episode one three. Uh, so we can break
down the machown episode. Uh. And so I'm gonna need
your help. I don't have Jamie here, and so you
guys all know what time. It is right, um, and
it's right now you're saying, yep, what time is it?
So I need you guys to all say it with
(34:35):
me on the count of three, one, two, three, it's
time to shut this shift down.
Ms people housing charge here. The rules are Welcome to
Walkers and Talkers. Episode one seventy two. I'm David Brodie
from melvinstare In the Morning show, and my co host
Jamie from Light FM in New York is not joining
(00:21):
us today. You may have noticed everyone is quarantined and
working from home, so I am broadcasting to live from
the basement studio I know, not the car studio. The
Dodge charger is not being used today. Jamie hopefully be
back next episode, but we are all working from home
and Jamie is not quite up to speed yet on
doing a podcast from her house, so bear with me.
(00:44):
I will try to give you as much snappy banter
as possible. This was an unbelievable episode. Will be I'll
be talking about um. But let's get to some Walking
Dead news. First. Talking Dead is back after a one
week hiatus. They shut down the studio. Uh, and they're
doing a show somehow uh. Sunday Night. Scott M. Gimple
(01:04):
is going to be one of your hosts, as will
super fan Evette Nicole Brown. Now Vette Nicole Brown has
been on Talking Dead a lot. In fact, she co
hosted while she hosted the show when Chris Hardwick was
out because of the scandal he was dealing with. UM
and Uh. She's very friendly woman, but social media was
(01:25):
not liking her very much. Uh said they're tired of her.
Don't know why she's always on a lot of people
like The Walking Dead. Why do they keep going to
her as an expert? Uh? Me personally, I would agree
she's probably on too much. I get it, she takes notes,
she's adorable, that's great. She's fun at least she thinks
she is. But I think it's too much. But if
(01:46):
she's all that was available, that could be part of it.
UM cast members maybe didn't want to fly to California.
I know last week Jesus was gonna be on and
I guess uh, Samantha Morton and maybe um uh your
Gamma Birch was gonna be on Thor Birch, but we'll
get to that later. So it's Scott M. Gimpbl Evett,
(02:08):
Nicole Brown. They released pictures for the new episode, which
will be focused on Machine and Virgil. In it, you'll
see Machine has new pets, uh, and she's clearly captured
at some point because she is on the floor with
a food tray a metal prison like food tray. They
released the first few few minutes of season UH ten
(02:32):
of the latest episode, and if you watch it, it
is in essence a clip from season two episode thirteen, which,
if you remember, was Micheon's first appearance. At that point,
of course, was not being played by Denied Garreau. It
was just a woman in a hood. You couldn't see
who it was, but that is when you saw Andrea
(02:52):
running in the woods fighting off walkers. She falls, one
falls on her, and in season two shown used her
sword and cut the walker in half, and that's how
they became friendly. In this clip, for some reason, Machine
stares at what's going on with her pets, you know,
the no armed, no jaws walkers on chains, uh, and
(03:16):
she just watches Andrew get killed and walks away. So
what does this mean? Is this her thinking about what
would happen in her life if she didn't always help people?
What would her life be like? Because I'm assuming she's
not thrilled that she helped Virgil and now she's screwed
on this island, uh captured, and we don't know what's
(03:38):
gonna happen. So I'll give you my predictions on the
episode at the end of all of this. Um, but
it is her last episode. People were on AMC's Walking
Dead Instagram page complaining that they advertised it as Machine's
last episode. UM. I'm of the thought that if you're
a fan of the show, you should know, because it
(03:58):
was announced a year ago that this is her last episode,
and you can't blame AMC's social media for wanting to
promote it. They need people to tune in. Speaking of
tuning in, the Walking Dead's ratings were up this past
week three point five million live viewers um in the
Key eighteen forty nine demo. The the episodes this season
(04:19):
have been averaging around two point nine to three million,
so up a half a million. That's the highest it's
been since episode two this season. So it's always good
when the ratings are good. That means our show is
going to stick around. Uh. In the trailer coming up
for this episode, Michean learns that the wife and children
of Virgil Um that he was so desperate to return
(04:40):
to are dead. They died of the same sickness that's
infecting everyone and now they're walkers. And Virgil apparently lied
to Machine just to get her to come with him
to help him put down his own family, which he
calls rippers. That's what his term for the zombies is.
(05:03):
He said, my family is still in there, I guess
in some building, my wife, my babies. That's why I
asked you to come. So he said, I needed you
to come. I'm not good at this, and uh, you
might have to go through some armed enemies. Um, if
you want to get those weapons that you want. So
Virgil's a snake. Um, he was selfish and lied for
(05:24):
his own benefit. But that then again most people do
in this world. She's ma shown is lured into some room.
The door is shut and locked behind her. So we
know for a fact somebody captures our I doubt it
was Virgil. Um, but somebody set the boat on fire.
We saw that in one of the trailers. Thanks trailer guy. Um,
so there you go. Uh, if you watch on AMC Premier,
(05:48):
there's a still shot graphic from every episode that is
sort of like the wallpaper for that episode. So when
you go to watch season ten, episode twelve, Walk with Us,
it's Alpha kissing Nigan. So every time I paused it,
uh to watch on Friday night, I had to watch
look at the picture of Alpha kissing Nigan, which is
(06:10):
just gross. So let's talk about the episode, and I
have some more notes that I'll give you throughout UM
as we go. So the episode starts off Carol is
shooting walkers with a bow and arrow, which to me
seemed like a waste of time. She's up on the
fence of Hilltop as the building is burning, and at
best she's picking off one of two walkers. Now I
(06:30):
guess that's better than none, but I feel like if
she had a knife or a sword, she could be
doing more damage down on the ground. Since the previous episode,
they must have gotten inside the walls. The fire burned
a hole in the main gate, so the Horde has
now entered the grounds of Hilltop and the survivors are
doing their best to fight them off using their shields.
(06:52):
Earl and Alden are flinging um slingshot scoops of boulders
or something onto the walkers. Um some miscellaneous survivor gets
taken down by a walker uh, and Kelly saves them
before they get killed. Darryl kills a whisperer because that,
I guess has to show that some of these walkers
are actually whispers who are in the front of the pack.
(07:14):
King Ezekiel has all of the kids and he can't
find Judith. She is uh swinging her sword and killing walkers.
She gets one of them in the gut. He falls
to the ground, his mask falls off, and he's a whisperer. Uh.
He says, please don't kill me. He begs for his life.
She doesn't kill him, but eventually he dies I guess
from the sword injury. And she's a bit traumatized by that.
(07:37):
Earl grabs her snaps her back into reality. The Hilltop
building is burning. Eugene looks up at his radio room.
He realizes his radio, the source of his connection to
the commonwealth, is burning. He makes a run inside to
save it, and we see Rosia going after him. That's
the last we see of them for the time being.
(07:58):
Yumico sees Magna walking with the dead. I don't know
about you, but for not even a second that I
think she was dead. Um. She has dirt and blood
on her face, and she was I guess walking with them, uh,
covered in blood, and of course, of all people, she
sees you, Muco. I'm calling coincidence bullshit on that, um.
(08:18):
And that is all before the credits, So a very
exciting first scene before the credits. UH cut to the
next morning. I guess we're to assume that everybody ran
out some back way, which we've seen before, and they
all agree to meet up at a rendezvous point. So
I guess they all didn't leave together. Um Nigan is
(08:38):
walking through bodies and dead dead dead walkers and he's
dragging his bat. He comes up on what looks like
a Hilltop member because they're wearing armor, they're missing an
arm and struggling. I guess it's a walker struggling for
its last breath or it's a human being. I guess
it's a human being. And he hits it in the
head with his bat and kills it. Alpha sees it
(08:59):
and as him next time to go to the heart,
not to miss and don't do it again. In other words,
she wants all of the dead to become walkers. So
I guess this was a surviving member hill Top, but
of course not a main member, so nobody cares. There'll
be no funeral. Uh. Nigan acts like it was an
honest mistake, but we know for a fact, and we've
seen later and we see later in the episode that
he's not really a big fan of creating more Walkers, um,
(09:22):
and it was certainly no accident. Nigan tells Alpha she
does not know how to enjoy her victory, and she
says it's not a victory until I have everything I want,
and Nigan says lydia, and Beta walks up and says
it's not really a concern, and he says to Alpha,
I promise to bring I bring her to you. Uh,
if she's not among the dead already. Alpha walks away. Uh.
(09:45):
Nigan walks up to Beta and says, I am at
your service, Frannie mctwo knives. And that line, by the way,
is right out of the comic books, so I'm glad
they got to use that line. Beta tells them to
herd the Guardians, and Nigan starts bitching about I'm on
walker patrol or something. That's the first time I think
we've heard Nigan refront of them as Walkers, which means
he is um maybe assimilating with the survivors and using
(10:08):
their terminology. He calls Beta dick and walks away. Gotta
love Nigan sometimes, even though you know he killed Glenn
and Abraham's spoiler. Nigan goes into the woods, sees a walker,
so he acts like a walker. The walker walks right
by him as if Nigan was a walker, which frustrates Neigan,
who says, screw this, points the bat at the walker
(10:29):
gets his attention. The walker turns around, comes to him,
and Egan smashes his head with the bat and starts laughing. Uh.
Two more walker's approach. It looks like he's gonna go
beat them to death too, and then he sees Lydia
jumping limping off in the background. I'm calling coincidence bullshit
on that as well. Uh, that is not the biggest
coincidence bullshit in this episode, but certainly one of them. Uh.
(10:51):
Cut to Aaron. Um, he's dragging uh and injured Luke
on a metal shingle of some kind. When he sees Nigan,
I guess who was walking after Lydia wearing a whisperer
mask and holding his bat. So he knows now that Nigan,
who escaped, is working with the whispers. He takes off
(11:12):
his strap around his neck to pull the body and
he looks like he's gonna get ready to fight Nigan.
Negan says, Aaron, don't do anything stupid and Aaron says,
you anything stupid would be not killing you now again
the way Gama a couple episodes ago didn't do a
good job of defending herself. Nigan says, I can explain,
but Aaron doesn't want to hear it. Now at that point,
(11:33):
wouldn't you say, hey, man, I'm working covertly x Nate.
Three walkers approach from uh behind Nigan, who again just
the mask and no blood, and they don't bother him.
I think there's a little too convenient by the way. Anyway.
They walk by Nigan, who walks off like I gotta go,
and he leaves Aaron to fight for himself. Um Lydia's
(11:57):
in the woods, limping badly. I guess she was wounded
in the fight. She's got a walking stick when Nigan
finds her, cool incidence bullshit. She smiles when she sees him,
but then she's she sees he's holding a whisper a mask,
and now she's like, oh, what the hell did I
get into. He grabs her and says stop, this ship
is done. At this point, we don't know if the
(12:19):
whisper thing is done, meaning you know I'm not a
whisper or her running away is done. Cut to all
then carrying little baby Adam Kelly and Mary Gamma. I'm
gonna call her Mary Gamm until I pick a name. Uh.
They're walking through the woods by themselves. Uh, they're looking
to meet up at the rendezvous point. Um, we already
(12:41):
know they're gonna get trapped in a car. Thanks trailer guy.
Mary office to help because the baby is crying. Um,
and all that says, I thought I told you to
stay back. So all that is still not for giving
her things. She's terrible, wants nothing to do with her advice.
She says, if you rub the back of his head
um and tickle him and the baby, he keeps crying,
it doesn't work. Um, and he's find you try it.
(13:04):
Of course, as soon as he gives the baby to Gamma,
the baby stops crying immediately because she's family. Alden asks
Mary what her sister's name was, and she says Francis.
So maybe they're breaking down the wall just a little bit. Uh.
They're sitting on some log logs, just killing time. Mary
hears birds starting to fly and make noise. She knows
(13:26):
from being a whisperer that means the walkers are coming. Uh,
She's like, we gotta move, and all of a sudden,
as walkers in every direction. Rather than try to outrun them,
they find an old minivan to get into and Mary
locks them in and runs off, screaming to get the
walkers to follow her, which most of them do. Um.
(13:46):
She kills about seven or eight of them, and she
looks very proud of herself, And as she turns around,
Beta steps up and stabs her in the abdomen. He says,
you're gonna walk with us and she says never, and
she pulls off half of his mask, which pisces him
off even more. He takes the knife and runs it
up her chest and kills her. Oh that's gotta be
(14:07):
a horrible way to die. Um. Another whisperer comes walking
up uh to uh Beta and says, it's you. I
thought I recognized your voice. I thought it sounded familiar.
Now I don't know how he recognized him his dirty,
unshaven face from a third of his mask being pulled away. Um.
(14:27):
They really should have made it look more obvious, truthfully,
like maybe she pulled the mask off his head for
a second, but they don't want the audience to see
what he looks like meaning us. So the guy's like, hey,
I know you kept your identity. He doesn't really say this,
but he's like, oh, I know you kept your identity
a secret. Um, but I I know who you are.
You're the famous guy trying to keep anyone from knowing
(14:49):
who you are. So of course Beta kills him immediately,
like day walker. I'm so like the whisperer that saw
Alpha crying. You knew he was going to be dead
in a second. Anyway. Beta puts Gamma up against the tree.
She turns into a walker, uh and as she walks
towards Beta, an arrow goes through her head, killing her instantly.
Again it's alden Um. I have to ask why he
(15:13):
didn't kill Beta. I don't understand this. He had every
opportunity clearly to kill him, and yet he decides to
put Gamma out of her misery, which she could have
done after he killed Beta. This is why sometimes the
bad guys always live, because they poorly right away for
them to stay alive. Cut to Carol in the woods
(15:33):
with Eugene, who's crying over his melted radio. Uh. Humko
is sitting with Magna telling the story of what happened
she said. They kept looking for a way out of
the cave, she and Connie, and they ended up in
the middle of the hoard. She said, the sickos, which
is what they call them, got between her and Connie.
Her hand slipped out of hers and she couldn't find
her again. Now the question is is this the truth?
(15:56):
Is she telling the truth that that's what happened in
the cave. Now we already know that Connie's gonna be
out for a while, maybe not until the final episode,
maybe until magnet Um sorry Maggie comes back and saves her.
But there was an interesting story written on the website
Fans Sided, and it talks about the two cave episodes
that we saw earlier in the second half and how
(16:19):
they're based on a movie called The Descent. We talked
about this when it happened, and The Descent was about
some cannibalistic, weird looking mutated creatures and a group of
young women that were trapped in the cave and they
pick off the women one by one and at some point,
(16:39):
um Juno, one of the women left another friend to
die after accidentally injuring her. So she's like, oh, you're injured.
I'm leaving you here gotta go. Um. Later on, another woman, Sarah,
finds out that she did this, and after the two
of them fight off all the creatures, she shows Juno
(17:05):
a feather of some kind of metal feather I guess
a key chain or an ear ring that she took
off of the third friend they left to die, and
now she knows that Juno left her to die. I
didn't see the movie. I'm assuming that the third friend
told Sarah um that Juno left her to die. Anyway,
she takes what looks to be like a a pick
(17:26):
and sticks it in Juno's leg as they hear more
of these creatures coming, so that the creatures will eat
Juno and Sarah can make her escape. If this sounds familiar,
we saw Shane shoot Otis in the leg in season
two so that he could get away while all the
Walkers ate Otis. Spoiler Otis is dead. Um. So people
(17:50):
are thinking, now it's a possibility that maybe Magna, who
we already know is out for ourself when she was
stealing supplies for herself, maybe she a bandoned Connie so
she can make an escape. So I guess we're gonna
find that out. Um. But if you look what happened
in the movie that the episodes were based on, Uh,
it doesn't look very good for Magna. Now if you
(18:13):
look at the scene with Magnet and Connie, which let
me talk about that scene and then we'll go back
to this movie comparison. Carol says they should move on
before it gets dark, and Yumico says Magnet has been
through too much she needs to rest. Carol says, rest
all you want, I'm leaving, and Yumico says, you're gonna
leave her again like you did the last time, meaning
in the cave when it was Carol's fault. So Yumuico says,
(18:35):
how about you apologize to her and beg her for forgiveness?
And Carol says, do you think that's what she wants
would do any good? We go through shipped, to go
through ship like very cavalier, like that's just life, and
Yumico punches cal right in the face and walks away
and Carol does nothing. Then Magnet tells Umico she didn't
want her to do that. They start fighting and Magne says,
(18:58):
I don't want to do this any more. She said,
excuse me, she says. She says I was mad the
last time we talked when you kicked me out, but
you were right. They break up. I guess, uh, and
they hold hands as if they understood. Carol walks off
and sits down on a log. So so Carol walks off.
So here's the rest of the Insider article. And they said,
(19:21):
do you think Magna's story to Umico about saying you
were right? I don't want to argue. I wish you
didn't had Carol. Remember, this is the same woman who
blamed Carol for trapping them in the cave. Was very
angry Carol, and now she doesn't want to be angry.
Carol doesn't want anybody else mad a Carol Um and
(19:42):
then tells Umico, I totally get while you were mad
at me. Um. I'm thinking she feels guilty about Connie
and maybe she's just as bad as Carol and now
understands why Carol does what she does. UM. So let's
keep an eye on that. Uh. In episodes fourteen, fifteen
and sixteen. Anyway, Carol sitting on a log, and just
(20:06):
where she sat down, a walker comes from under the leaves.
Have you ever seen a walker just hiding out under leaves?
Not moving. She seems to not be taking the walker
very seriously, and the walker is scratching at her leg
and she keeps letting it do that. Finally she brushes
it away. Now people are saying this is a comparison
to the comics I think episode forty, issue forty two
(20:28):
where Carol in the comics, who has had mental problems
and committed suicide by walker, let a walker eat her
neck and die. So people were saying that maybe this
was a a tribute to that in the comics, because
obviously Carol isn't dead in the In the TV show,
Eugene comes by uh and watches her killed walker. He says,
(20:51):
I want to make sure you're okay. He then goes
on to tell sort of tell the story about the
person he's supposed to meet up with, Uh, Stephanie. He says,
I have an important meeting coming up, and because hill
tipe Top has gone it wouldn't I won't be able
to attend that meeting, and Uh, Carol says, it's not
often you find someone you care for like that, And
(21:12):
Carol says, tells him it's important you go to her.
I guess you put two and two together. It was
a woman. He says, I don't want to leave hill top.
He says, I don't want to leave. He is, but
he tells Carol, I hope you get what you want,
meaning revenge or whatever I'm calling coincidence bullshit Again in
the leaves where Carol is sitting just happens to be
lying in the grass or in the leaves laying there
(21:35):
is Lydia's walking stick. So at that point Carol knows
Lydia is around. Um. Darryl's group is walking down uh
down a hill with Rosita Jerry. Jerry's wife is injured
in a bunch of people we don't know. They're walking
across the field. Um. Now that remember the knife wound
in Daryl's leg that was bleeding profusely, That is now
(21:57):
a cloth tied in a knot around his pants, So
I guess he's wolverine recovering quickly. Um. Diana is there
also by the way. UM. Rosita says. People are asking
about the kids, and Darryl says, don't worry. Ezekiel has them.
They should be at the rendezvous spot, which we already
know they aren't because we know from the trailer they
are with Earl. Thanks trailer guide. Um. They arrive at
(22:20):
the rendezvous point, which is a bunch of abandoned cabins.
There's a walker there, but no people. Jerry's wife starts
freaking out about her babies, her babies. Uh. He tells
everyone to spread out and go looking for them, which
doesn't seem like good advice. Um, but we know Earl
has the kids in a in a little, small concrete house.
(22:41):
Judith says she doesn't know where Ezekiel is to Earle,
there was so much smoke. Um. But thanks to the
pictures from Picture Guy. Uh. Future episodes coming up, we
know that Ezekiel, Umico and Eugene go to Commonwealth, so
we know Ezekiel is not dead at this point. Uh.
They're about ten kids in this little house. Fortunately for Earl,
(23:02):
somebody hung up drapes to cordon off this little shack
into two rooms. And by the way, Earl stepped up
his game. We talked about that that he was the
voice of reason, he was the moral compass um. And
of course, once you make a guy look good, you
know he's not long for this earth. Um. He goes
behind the curtain to be by himself. He looks terrible
(23:23):
clearly he's been bitten. He bangs a spike from the
underside of the table so it sticks up through the table.
His arm is badly bitten. I guess he didn't want
to cut his own arm off, and nobody could have
done it for him, although Judy has that sword. Judith
rather Judith walks in and said, you lie to us,
Um and it looks like he's gonna kill himself on
the spike. She says, don't do it. She says, Um
(23:47):
he has. He says he has no choice, and she said, well,
then I'll stay with you so you don't have to
be alone. This kid man she's ten years old and
she's she's more adult than a lot of the adults.
And Earl said, Alden, it will take care of Adhim
and tells her how strong and brave she is, and
she needs to go keep the kids safe from him.
(24:07):
Go back in there and don't come near me again.
She holds his hand and walks away. Very touching scene.
Jerry and Darryl returned to hilltop. They find King Ezekiel
under some sheet metal. Um was he hiding? Was the
brave king hiding? That doesn't seem right anyway, as soon
as they find him, he says, Earl's got the kids,
(24:28):
so now they gotta go find Earl. Um back to
the cabin with Earl. Um. He's staring at the spike
and he shoves his head onto it. We don't see it,
but he kills himself on the spike and he goes
out like a hero. Good for you, Earl. Your wife's dead,
your son is dead. Um. You know they would have
(24:48):
been proud. Judith goes in to check on him and
finds him dead. But if you notice, his head is
not on the spike, UM, which says to me it
was not a direct hit or he's a walker. Uh.
And he moved his head off the spike, UM, so
he must have. I don't know. The spike must have
gone into his eye but didn't and he bled out
but it didn't go through his brain. So she has
(25:11):
some reason. She walks up to him. He grabs her arm. Um.
Daryl walk opens the door to the cabin. All of
the kids run out except Judith. Darryl walks in the
back room and see Judah sitting on the floor because
obviously she killed Earl, and he goes and sits down
next to and hugs her. Definitely all the fields there.
Back to Nigan, he walks up to Alpha. He said,
(25:33):
that thing you've been looking for, I found it. Now
we already know that's Lydia and we see her tied
to a chair in a cabin. Um. At this point,
we still don't know which side Nigan is on. By
the way, this Lydia in a cabin thing, which we'll
get to remind. I'll remind myself there's nobody here to
remind me. Um. That's a commonly used trick, which we'll
(25:54):
talk about. Uh, and we'll get to uh the big,
big scene right after this. Okay. So Alpha and Nigan
are walking through the woods and Uh and says uh.
She says to Nigan, it's time for you to leave
your pride behind and become and become a lion, meaning
(26:15):
your followers. He asked if that means she wants him
to spread her gospel on his own, to form another tribe.
And he says, listen, I'm not hip to the whole
Greek alphabet thing. But Beta is no Alpha, and isn't
it the young lioness who takes the lions place? So
at this point, what he's saying is you know, shouldn't
Beta be a boss, shouldn't he be promoted to uh
(26:40):
normally to take your place or run his own pride?
He says, But if you're asking me, he's no Alpha,
meaning I don't think he's the leader type. He's more
of a follower. And then you see Nigan is trying
to uh really stick up for Lydia, saying, you know,
shouldn't the the lioness take over the lions place, like
you know, you don't want to kill her? And Alpha says,
(27:01):
just walk And they keep showing Lydia trying to escape
as as they're walking towards this cabin, we still don't
know if he's taking her to the right cabin or not,
which we will find out shortly. Nigan starts telling Alpha
about his wife and how she had pancreatic cancer. Um,
(27:22):
and she was still beautiful even when she was sick
and lost all her hair, which, by the way, I
guess is why he might find Alpha a tractor being bald.
Alpha says, be grateful that death set her free. He says,
after she was gone, he was never really happy. I
didn't feel scared, I didn't feel anything, um, and that
is my strength in other words, just nothing meant nothing
(27:43):
was important and Nigan, he says, but he says, this
world is dead to me. I'm dead to this world.
I feel nothing. But Alpha, you claim you feel nothing,
and you're pretending. He said people are animals and have
no emotion. You say that's bullshit. Explicit he said, you
claim you have to kill your daughter, your own flesh
(28:03):
and blood. H And Alpha says that's her destiny. She says,
that disease that took your wife, that was nature. She
couldn't take you with her, but you live every day
wishing she could. In other words, you wish that you
died with your wife. She says, Lydia was made for
this to be free with me. As that's going on,
Lydia breaks loose off her ropes. Nigan says to Alpha
(28:26):
that she's still Um. You still love your daughter. Um.
Alpha says, I will always love her. That's why I
have to kill her. That's why I have to do it. Um. Now, look,
we know Lydia. I'm sorry. We know Nigan loves kids,
and we know he loves Lydia, so there is no
way he's letting her kill Lydia. At this point, Nigan
(28:48):
and Alpha kiss passionately. UM, and I'm like oh um,
and then I wrote, if this is anything like the comics,
this is going to end poorly in a second. Um.
If you haven't seen the comics, just google um what
happens to Alpha in a second uh, and you'll see
(29:10):
the picture of Nigan doing the same thing. Alpha starts
walking towards the cabin. Lydia is struggling together her leg ties.
Nigan is right behind her. Lydia opens the door and
it's a field and nowhere near where Alpha and Nigan are.
This is a common UH trope in movies and TV
shows where you think someone's about to walk in and
(29:33):
they opened the door and the places empty and you
realize the person who was trapped or escaping or being
held is not in the location you thought. So not
the most original of ways to handle this, um. Alpha
walks into the cabin. There's nothing there. Um. This was
also similar to a scene in Goodfellas where Joe Pesci
(29:53):
walks into a room where he thinks he's about to
be a made man, which is a mafia UH ceremony me,
and he sees the room as empty. And this was
the same reaction Alpha had. Uh you can figure out
what happened to Joe Pesci spoiler Good Fellas is twenty
years old. You should have seen it by now anyway. Um,
(30:14):
you could see that Nigan had his hand on his
knife when she opened the door. Um. And Uh, she
turns around and he slits her throat, just like in
the comics. Uh. And by the way, he did it
much better than Rick did when Rick slit Nigan's throat
because he survived. Um. He kisses her as he lowers
her head down to the ground to die. And I wrote,
(30:36):
Carol definitely sent him there to do that. So this
is exactly what happened in the comics, except in the
comics he did it to prove to Rick he was
a changed man. And he cuts off her head and
gives the head. He cuts off her head, gives Alpha's
head to Rick. But Rick is gone and so um
(30:58):
you see in the next scene her head is in
a bag bleeding. Um, it's her head as a walker.
He rolls it to the ground and oh what talent.
It beautifully lands facing Carol, Um, perfectly facing her, and
it's Alpha as a walker. And she looks at Nigan
and says it took you long enough, and I know
(31:22):
everybody watching went yes like I did, even though I
kind of figured it out. Uh and Nigan smiles at
her like, yeah, you know I did. Um. I'm not
sure how he found where Carol was. Um. You know,
as far as how did they meet up, they didn't
exactly talk to each other on a cell phone, So
I'm calling bullshit there. Um. There was no talking dead
(31:44):
because the show was put on hiatus. However, I did
want to talk about Samantha Morton um before we get
out of here, so I'll do that right after this, Okay,
so um. Samantha Morton was interviewed now that she is
deceased spoiler Alpha's dead. They asked her if she knew
(32:05):
her character's fate when she first joined the show or
was given the role. She said, I kind of always
knew because when I was in discussions with Angela Kang
in the early stages that I was potentially going to
play Alpha, it was very clear this character would have
her head chopped off. So I always knew. Yep, I
just knew. Um. Kristin A Kuna from the Insider who
did the interview, says, did you know Jeffrey Dean Morgan
(32:28):
was going to wind up killing you. Uh you know
the words Nigan? She says, yes, very clearly. On I
knew my whole story arc wasn't really a surprise, it
was all known. Um So. Then she's asked, what do
you think was going through Alpha's mind when she was
killed by Nigan because she wasn't expecting it. Um So
(32:51):
Morton says, I think it's very quick, so I don't
think very much is going through her mind other than shock.
It's instantaneous. I think when she's dying, when she's eating out,
she's hoping that he will lead the whispers. That's what
she's hoping for, and so that's not gonna happen obviously.
Next question, do you think Alpha regrets not having killed
Nigan in the woods when she had a chance? Um
(33:12):
And Samantha Warton says, in that moment when she's dying, no,
not at all, No regrets. Um And they asked her
if she watches the show, what does she think of
the show and her performance. She says, I don't watch
anything I'm in. Um I've never watched myself and anything
until years later. For me personally, I don't watch myself
each week. I just it just doesn't work for me. Um,
(33:33):
if the director needed me to watch something to change
my performance, I would, But no, I can't watch myself.
It's like when you hear your voice on the answering
machine message for the first time, you're like, oh, is
that what I sound like? Uh No, oh my gosh,
I can't do that. If you remember, Andrew Lincoln also
said he doesn't watch himself. UM, I will be honest
with you, I occasionally listen back to these podcasts to
(33:54):
hear what we sound like, to make sure they're good
and that they're entertaining and that there's enough snappy banter.
I'm sorry Jamie wasn't here for this episode, but if
you're at this point in the podcast, thank you very
much for being loyal for listening to the whole thing.
Even though Jamie's not here, we all miss her terribly.
Please remember to tweet her at the Talking Jamie and
(34:15):
let her know you missed her, and hopefully she'll be
back for episode one three. Uh, so we can break
down the machown episode. Uh. And so I'm gonna need
your help. I don't have Jamie here, and so you
guys all know what time. It is right, um, and
it's right now you're saying, yep, what time is it?
So I need you guys to all say it with
(34:35):
me on the count of three, one, two, three, it's
time to shut this shift down.
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