July 3, 2025 • 36 mins
Tom looks back on the 50th anniversary of the Big Red Machine in a conversation with Doug Flynn. UK Men's assistant basketball coach Cody Fueger joins in the second half hour to talk about the approach the the staff takes and analytical analysis
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
This podcast of The Leech Report is presented by Boone's
Butcher Shop in Barnstown at one hundred Old Bloomfield Pike,
Family owned and operated since nineteen forty six, with fresh
meat cut on site daily. Boons Butcher Shop. It's the
Leech Report coming to you from the Clark's Pumping Shop studio. Return,
refresh and refuel at Clark's and we're gonna reminisce a
(00:23):
little bit about the Big Red Machine fiftieth anniversary of
the first of two World Series titles coming this season
and last weekend up at Great American Ballpark, the Reds
were host of the Padres and on Friday night they
had the big celebration and Doug Flynn was a part
of it. Was a rookie on the Big Red Machine
team in seventy five. That was pretty good timing for you.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
Well, you know what the it's all about. The timing. Yeah,
it was kind of wild, you know, because three years
before that, I was just going to a junior college
and trying to make my grades playing any sports and
go to the tryout camp and shoot. It seemed like
a short three years in the minor league and then boom,
(01:07):
there we are opening day in nineteen seventy five, I
got a picture of men Pete leaning out over the
railing in the dugout and going back this week, it
was really, really a good experience, Tom, is it very emotional.
We've got twelve guys from the seventy five and seventy
sixteen that weren't there, but the twenty three of us
(01:28):
had showed up. There were tears, there were hugs, and
as Johnny said, we hugged the We shook hands the
first day, we hugged the second day, and we were
kissing the third day. It was just so good to
see everybody.
Speaker 1 (01:39):
Again, so so many good memories for all of us
that were fans of those teams. And I know it
was that way for you too. And by the way,
I'll throw it and aside. David Patrick did a wonderful
feature with Doug our long sit down interview that aired
over the weekend on KYT and the CWS. I'm sure
you can find that online and if you missed it
(02:01):
or didn't get it recorded. It has to be so
much fun, you know, reminiscing, because you know the stories
are like fishing stories, they get better with time.
Speaker 2 (02:14):
Right, and it takes a little longer to tell them too,
because you sit there for a while. And one thing
I found out by going to reunions is I found
this out of my high school reunions. You know, people,
they change physically pretty much a lot. You know, your hair,
your weight, whatever. But when you look into a person's eyes,
as I looked around at those other twenty two guys
(02:36):
there and saw into their eyes, it just brought back
fifty years of some of the great things we were
able to go through, some of the tough times in
the minor leagues with a lot of my buddies who
we basically spent two or three years and the miners
together before we made it. And then when you start
telling the stories about and trust me, the stories don't
get worse, they get longer, but they do get better.
Speaker 1 (02:58):
Yeah, I bet a lot of those were part of
the World Series team in nineteen seventy that lost to
the Orioles, and then the next year, after a down season,
they made the big trade that brought Morgan into the Reds,
and then they won a pennant again but lost in
the World Series, and then won a division and lost
in the divisional playoff. So you come in as the
(03:19):
new guy. But what did you sense about the mindset
of those veterans going into that season.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
I don't think people will ever realize just how much
pressure they were under, because individually, when you look at
Pete and Johnny and Joe Tony Prez, they were having
statistics that probably warned them getting into the Hall of Fame.
They were that dominant players. And yet the one thing
that was lacking was to say, well, they weren't on
(03:45):
a winner, and there have been a lot of really
good players like Ernie Banks, for instance, who was never
on a World Series champion, and so you could sense
that they were on a mission. And I mean, it
was all business at the ballpark. I've told people that
the IQ of this much was higher than any I've
ever played. You didn't have to tell guys to move runners,
you didn't have to tell them the fun of guy over.
(04:06):
You never had to worry about where they were going
to be on a cutoff, and there was sort of
a sense of urgency that they had, and they went
through this business like almost scary business like, because for
a young kid like me, you were afraid to get
out of line, and most of us, as rookies or
extra guys. We didn't talk a lot. We would go
(04:27):
and get prepared and we would do what we were
asked to do, and then we would speak if we
were spoken to. But on the other side of that
is I can't imagine anybody being any more gracious and
good to those of us that were first or second,
your players or utility players, because they had one mission,
and they also were the guys, because Sparky would ask
(04:49):
them what do we need on this team and who
do we need And it was through their opinions that
they put the big Red machine together. When I got there,
they just told you, I don't know what you know
about the Dodgers other than the fact that you hate them,
and that's who we got to beat. And then in
the other vision with the Phillies and the Pirates were good.
It seems like every single year, But I remember in
(05:10):
seventy five we got off to a slow start and
San Diego was in first place, and I remember hearing
guys say, we're good, don't worry about it. And then
we were in Montreal and we were twenty and twenty one,
I believe, or nineteen to twenty. Like a game under
five hundred, Sparky called a meeting, and in that meeting
he basically got all over all of us young kids.
And when he was getting on us, then Pete stood
(05:31):
up and he took up for us, and then Joe
took up for us, and Johnny took up forth, and
then Tony stood up and basically called spark every name
you could think of and said, get off the kids.
He said, when the big dog starts hitting, and we'll
be fine. We come back to Cincinnati playing the Mets.
Tom Seavers started against us. We ended up with an
eight to four lead, and then I remember pretty well
(05:51):
because that's the night I got to go in. I
was supposed to bunt, and the count went to three
and one. I got to swing and I hit a
home run. We went eleven to four, and when the
next forty one out of fifty, and boy, after we
did that, I mean we were off and rolling, and
you could just see it wasn't just let's go out
and win a game. Let's go out and beat people
and beat them bad.
Speaker 1 (06:10):
Yeah. One I think what I read, one hundred and
eight games that year.
Speaker 2 (06:14):
Yeah, one hundred and eight that year.
Speaker 1 (06:16):
Beat the Dodgers by twenty games.
Speaker 2 (06:18):
Yeah, yeah, it was amazing because when we went on
that forty one out of fifty, it puts the league
away and then it you know, there was no complacency whatsoever.
Guys just kept saying, let's keep pouring it on, let's
keep winning, and you started getting that kind of confidence.
And of course when we went to the playoffs, we
had to play the Pirates that year and they had
a really good ball club ended up winning it in
seventy nine with virtually the same club, and then we
(06:41):
beat them, and of course the Great World Series was Boston,
so and then I tell people, you know, the pressure
was all off after that, and so in nineteen seventy
six we win. I think we went by twelve that year,
but it was like we just kept rolling and it
was such a smooth year. And that these guys now
they got the pressure off their back. They were just
out there showing out.
Speaker 1 (07:01):
Talking with Doug Flynn here on the Leach Report, and
we will continue in just a moment. We're presented each
day by bobcat Enterprises back into the Leach Report and
we're visiting with my buddy Doug Flynn about the Big
Red Machine, the EI the fiftieth anniversary celebration last weekend
up in Cincinnati. Everybody needs somebody to believe in them,
(07:22):
whether it's in the business or the team or whatever. Sparky,
I'm guessing, was that guy for you, right?
Speaker 2 (07:29):
I'm not sure.
Speaker 1 (07:31):
Well, he puts you on the team.
Speaker 2 (07:34):
You know, it's funny. You know who told me I
made the team time? You'll love this. So I go
to spring training and I get invited in seventy four.
I get about two weeks there, then they send me down.
That was pretty customary, but they could bring you back
up to playing games and not have to pay you.
Then some rules change, So seventy five I go and
I know that they concept Field and Joe Morgan are
(07:55):
probably not going to be in their best shape because
they would use spring training to get into shape, as
did Pete and Johnny and some other guys. So I
went down in the best shape I could be in,
started playing early, and I started hitting, And I really
believe that Marty Brendaman told me yesterday, Sparky did not
take me out of the lineup. I played in every
spring training game because once I got going good, they said,
(08:18):
well if we take him out now, look bad if
we don't keep him. So if we keep playing he
maybe he'll play himself out of the lineup. Well, I
ended up setting a record for HISS that year. And
so three days before we break camp, we go into
Lakeland to play the Tigers and Steve Hamilton was down
there as a coach and he comes running up to
me and he says, Douggie. He says, where do you
go man? You're going north with the team. And I said,
(08:39):
how you know that? He said, Sparky told us. He said.
I went over to him and say, Sparky, I got
a friend on that team. He's having a pretty good spring.
How's he going to do? And Sparky said, well, he's
going north with it. So Steve Hamilton is the guy
who actually told me the club.
Speaker 1 (08:53):
Yeah, it's a pretty challenging infield to break into Hall
of Fame first baseman, Hall of Fame, second baseman. When
they moved roads to third Hall of Famer at third
Hall of Fame catcher and should be a Hall of
Fame shortstop.
Speaker 2 (09:08):
Yeah, that's why in the minor league with the Reds,
you always wanted to make it to the big league,
but you never thought it was going to be with
that ball club. You thought, all right, I'll play good
in the minors and some other team will need or something.
And our outfield was the same way. You had Foster
and Geronimo and Griffy and the outfield. So guys like
Joel Youngblood and Ed Armbrister and hear Me, Junior, Kennedy,
Ray Knight, we were all down in the minor leagues
(09:28):
and we're thinking, all right, well, let's play good maybe
somebody because we can't break into that lineup. And as
a matter of fact, that's one of the reasons I
got traded. They had a good chance to get Tom
sever and they were looking for a throw in, which
is what I basically was. And Johnny Bench said, he
tells me now, said you know what I told him,
Why don't they take you? And I said, why you
do that? He said, because you deserve the right to
(09:49):
play every day somewhere and you weren't going to play here.
Speaker 1 (09:52):
And things worked out well in New York. Won a
Gold Glove in nineteen eighty. I mean, it wasn't the
big red machine, but you want a gold Glove inte
nine ninety one fielding percentage, So that's a nice achievement
to have on the resume as well, but still nothing
like that. Nothing feels like, you know, winning as a team,
does it?
Speaker 2 (10:12):
No, it really doesn't. I mean, all these years later,
I know you know that I win the Gold Glove.
I'm not going around celebrating Gold Glove anniversaries or anything
like that, because there's a lot of people that get them,
and you're thankful that you do get it. But man,
when you walked in that room the other day and
you saw some of these guys, and some I really
haven't seen for a long time, like Manny Sarmiento and
(10:32):
Santo Alkalai, Terry Crowley, Freddie Norman. These are guys that
I just Pat Darcy I see a little bit some
of the other guys I've seen through Fantasy Camp and
a couple of functions up at the Reds Hall of Fame,
which did an incredible job of putting this together along
with Johnny Bench. Johnny at first was contacted to see
what he thought about doing this, and originally I understand
(10:55):
they weren't going to bring the whole team in, and
Johnny basically says, no, it's either all of us or
no of us.
Speaker 1 (11:00):
So good for him.
Speaker 2 (11:01):
He went out of his way to make this a special,
special weekend.
Speaker 1 (11:04):
My dad was a huge baseball fan, So I mean
we grew up, you know, going to so many Reds
games in those days, and you know, watching when we
couldn't be there, listening to Marty and Joe And speaking
of Dad's, your dad and my dad played on a
famous team, the first integrated team south of the Mason
Dixon line. So the story goes the Lexington Hustlers and
(11:26):
played Scoop Brown, legendary figure around these parts was the
player manager. And I know my dad said it was
always the best team he'd ever played on.
Speaker 2 (11:34):
True, and my dad played a year in the minor
league was Brooklyn when I played with Johnny Padres and
Hazard Kentucky. But I meant to ask you, tom My,
Dad and I looked around one time and I saw
all these guys that had nicknames like Bill Dooley Berry
and Peter Damn Mason and you know, Scoop Brown. And
I'm thinking, Dad, did you have a nickname? He said yeah.
(11:55):
I said what was it? He said, Snowflake.
Speaker 1 (12:02):
For those who don't know, it was And this I
think the team started in the same year Jackie Robinson
integrated Butch League Baseball. Yeah, and I think our dads
may have joined a little later. But it was the
Lexington Hustlers was a team owned by a group of
African American businessmen in Lexington and they needed a second basement,
(12:26):
so the story goes, and they reached out to your
dad because he and Scoop were friends, and so they
just found a good ballplayer. Davy Whitney from Midway was
a legendary basketball coach at Alcorn State was on the team.
I think Jim Host pitched for him a little bit.
Speaker 2 (12:41):
But you know, Tom, there's still people today that'll come
up and say something about that team, that Hustler team
that they've heard from either their parents or their grandparents,
and it's really cool to hear the stories. And you know,
I remember they came to dad and they wanted to
make a big deal, like Bobby, you crossed the color Bear,
and he went, no, I didn't. I wanted to play
with the best in town and the other teams didn't
(13:02):
want me. And Scoop calls and says, hey, you can play,
but you're gonna have to try out, he said, So
I went out and tried it out and made the team.
And he said they weren't making a statement, and I
wasn't making a statement. We were just guys that loved
to play baseball. We wanted to play good baseball. Well,
you know Lou Johnson and Bill john Yeah, yeah, they
had played some with them. I think they were in
(13:22):
the Service. But Dad would tell me about playing against
the Indianapolis Clowns and Goose Tatum and all those teams.
He said, man, he said, Doug, there were some ball
players there that everyone they should have been in the
big league. Oh, and you know what, tom My dad
probably was a big My dad was so much better
than me. He could hit, he could run. I was
probably a better defender than him. I'm not sure of that,
but he had. I mean I can remember him just
(13:45):
being gritty and being able to steal bases, and he could,
he could hit, And I took after mom. I was
a good fielder.
Speaker 1 (13:52):
Yes, your mom played fast patch softball too, right, Yes,
he did.
Speaker 2 (13:56):
Hear my aunt Rose. I think with a aunt. Rose
played third, Mom played second, and Mom used to tell
me that they were really really good, you know, because
you didn't have flow bits back in those days. You
just had fast pitch, but she was good. That's who
I used to warm up with a lot when I
started getting older and playing the Little League in Pony League,
because Dad would be referring or umpiring and gone, and
(14:16):
Mom would be out there. And trust me, she could
handle her own with me up until I got, you know,
probably in high school.
Speaker 1 (14:22):
Let me ask you back to the Reds about the
seventy five series up in Boston, since the Reds as this,
this is gonna zerring on the show here, the Reds
will have just finished up a series at Fenway, where
you guys started in seventy five, and what was it
like when you went back there in for game six?
In the Carlton Fisk kits that home run around midnight
(14:45):
and they looks like they've got all the momentum. What
was it like but that twenty four hours before you
got to play again miserable?
Speaker 2 (14:54):
Well, it wasn't really, because when the game was over.
I mean, we've been watching the film over the last
week weekend and Roleigh Eastucker sitting there and somehow Bernie
Carbo fouls off the pitch before he hits the other
one out of Paul Park, and now it's tied Fi
hits the home run. We thought it was foul, and
the umpire wasn't sure, but George Foster said, no, it
(15:15):
was fair. And so the game's over. The writers are
in there. My locker's pretty close to Pete's and one
of the writers says, so, Pete, you got to be devastated, man,
You guys, this is what was lacking on all of
your all's resume a World Series victory. And Pete said devastated.
He said, tomorrow night's going to be the seventh game
(15:36):
of the World Series. We're the only game in town.
Everybody in America is going to be in around the
globe is going to be watching this game on television.
We got our best picture on the man. Man, I
can't wait about that. And all of a sudden, I thought,
all right, because you know, I made sixteen thousand dollars
that year. If we win the World Series, I'm probably
gonna make another fourteen to fifteen. All of a sudden,
(15:58):
but you're thinking, man, that's more money than I ever
thought i'd making my life. And then we're gonna get
a ring. And that's not what Pete and Johnny and
them were thinking. They were trying to add to the legacy,
and they needed to have that World Series win. And
then boy, after that, as I told you, the next year,
we just rolled.
Speaker 1 (16:16):
Doug. Let me ask you one other thing. Dave Parker
just passed played for the Reds for a while, but
was a great star before that with the Pirates, and
had a chance to meet him at the Reds Hall
of Fame last summer as he was fighting Parkinson's But
he was, you know, just the talent in those days
that you guys had on your team and you had
(16:36):
to go up against was incredible, you know, Dave.
Speaker 2 (16:38):
I remember the first time I saw him and I thought,
all right, maybe one of the Steelers is out here
loosening up, get ready, six five, two fifty. Maybe could
run like a deer had a cannon for an arm.
I didn't really know Dave a lot when we played,
but got to know him a little bit after it.
But one of the things that I do remember is
that when we were playing, he would always be a
(16:59):
lot of chatter the cages. And when I was with
the Mets and started being an everyday player, the Pirates
would come out and they were huge and they could
swing the back and Dave would say he dug, you,
you better hope I hit a double, because if I hit
a single, I'm coming after it, and went, oh crap,
Well we played several years. Well, I'm in Montreal down
(17:20):
to toward the end of my career. In Dave's play,
he's on first base as a groundball hit the short
I come to second. It's not hit hard, and I
know he's gonna be right on top of me. I
get it, turn the double play, jump in the air.
He takes my feet out from under me and catches
me in midair and lays me down very gently, he said.
He says, Doug, you we've been in the game too
long for either one of us to get hurt.
Speaker 1 (17:42):
How about that? What a story? And that is a
great story to close out a very fun interview with
Doug Flynn coming up with a heartbreak at the bottom
of the hour. Well here from you, k Men's assistant
basketball coach Cody Figure coming up in the second half
of the show. Let me take a second and tell
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This is the good life. We do this pre recorded
edition of the Leach Report for July third, since it
was part of the holiday weekend. So we just heard
(18:45):
from Doug Flynn. Next up, it's an interview that I
recently taped with UK assistant men's basketball coach Cody Figer.
Some really interesting stuff here about their approach as a
staff and some greater insight into the analytics components. So Cody,
want to talk a little bit about from the offensive
perspective for this next team. First of all, when you guys,
(19:08):
because you've been with Coach Pope the longest, I guess
I think right when you guys were talking about coming here,
coming into a different league, what did you expect and
how did it differ from what you live through?
Speaker 3 (19:24):
Yeah, with last year into mind offensively, you know, at
the end of the day, we want to play as
fast as we can, right, shoot as many threes as
we can. And last year we weren't just up to
part with exactly what we wanted to do there, you know,
some of it with injuries, you know, so it was
this and that. But at the end of the day,
(19:45):
we want to be able to shoot more threes. We
want to be able to shoot more threes. We want
you know, the guys play fast, free and fearless at
the end of the day. And yeah, we weren't able
to get as many threes up. We still played ti
thirty in pace last year, but we want to we
want to move all those numbers up as we put
(20:06):
this roster together.
Speaker 1 (20:07):
So with this collection you guys have put together for
the second season and these days, every team is going
to be pretty dramatically different from one year to the next.
What do you think this team's strengths offensively will be.
Speaker 3 (20:22):
So, you know, as you asked that question, completely honest,
I'm not sure yet. We got we got you know,
a lot of guys that can really play. And you know,
even last year at this time, we weren't for sure.
Now we knew Kobe Brayer could really shoot it, and
we knew Jackson Robbins really shoot it.
Speaker 4 (20:41):
Like, we got guys that.
Speaker 3 (20:41):
We know can shoot it really well, Cam Williams this
and that. But we're still figuring out. We're only you know,
kind of six workouts in right now, and we're really
doing skill development right now. But one thing we're gonna
do is we're gonna be able to score the ball
because we're gonna play fast and free. But we got
Jalen Low who can really pass the ball, really good
(21:03):
decision maker. We're going to play very similar to last year,
but hopefully get more threes and more possessions. We want
to even play more in transition, like we want to
be a top ten transition team. We want to push
this pace every single time. One thing we're going to
do way better job of this year, and I can
promise you is offensive rebound. We're going to be way
(21:24):
better at that because that's something that we're teaching a
little bit different this year, and we're holding guys accountable
a little bit more this year. We've got the bodies
to throw in there this year. So offensive rebounding I
think is going to make a huge jump.
Speaker 1 (21:39):
Is the confidence that you'll be able to get to
that number of threes and play at the pace you
want come from. The depth that you guys have. Is
that because of the injuries, maybe what you lacked last
season to get where you want to do in that area.
Speaker 4 (21:54):
Yes, for sure.
Speaker 3 (21:55):
You know, like when Kirk Chrisa was out there, you know,
we had two points that could go really fast and
then we just had these younger guys that we had
to build up quick.
Speaker 4 (22:06):
So that's for sure a thing.
Speaker 3 (22:07):
We got a lot of really good, talented guys on
this team that we feel like we can fly up
and down the floor with. You know, maybe we'll pick
up a little bit more defensively also, but offensively we
are going it's an all out trying to score that
thing as fast as we can this year.
Speaker 4 (22:24):
So it's gonna be fun.
Speaker 3 (22:25):
Our guys are gonna put their head down, get to
the basket, playoff two feet and try to find shooters.
Speaker 1 (22:31):
As you get got into the analytics part of this,
and it's certainly growing, is there ever a time, you
see where it gets to the point where everybody's doing
it to a level that just the kind of in
any aspect of life, there's the yang and the yang
of you know, something then develops in the other direction
(22:52):
to combat that. See it in football a lot, you know,
with trends that develop where that anything changes about the
use of analytics because it's so widely used.
Speaker 3 (23:04):
For sure, Yeah, I mean there's so many people that
dive into so many different things on it. But at
the end of the day, you know, to simplify it
all for us, what we want, we want more possessions
than the other team.
Speaker 4 (23:16):
So at the end of the day with our.
Speaker 3 (23:18):
Guys, we just kind of talked to them about that,
like offensive rebound, more possessions, protecting the ball, not turn
the ball over, more possessions, and then effictive field goal
percentage like those are all things that we want our
guys thinking about. We don't want to dive too much
into the weeds with it for them to make them
think too much, right, we want them playing fast and
(23:41):
free and fearless, not thinking about all that, but just
giving them direction on what to do. That's a huge
thing on what to do we're going to the offensive
glass every single time. Four guys, we're sitting the offensive
glass every single time, flying in there so we get
more possessions. We show them exactly what to do with
protecting the ball so we're not turning it over. So
(24:03):
we just do that over and over and over again.
Speaker 4 (24:05):
So they just.
Speaker 3 (24:06):
Build that habit, and like I said, we don't want
to dive too much into the weeds with it, but
people are getting kind of carried away right now what
exactly wins games? So we'd study it every year, and
you know, I think the biggest thing for the teams
that won this year at the end of the day
was effective field goal percentage. So we talk about what
(24:27):
good shots and we want to get these shots over
and over again, and especially each player is a little
bit different. What's the best shot for you, what's the
best shot for you? Making a play for teammate, those
types of ways where we get effective field goal percentage
and then getting the offensive glass, getting more possessions.
Speaker 1 (24:43):
So I don't know how much of a movie guy
you are, but the movie Hidden Figures about the ladies,
African American ladies that helped the NASA program. The Catherine Johnson,
the League character, and there's part of the part of
the movie she talks about here she's figured the stuff
out that they can't understan and how she figured it
out if she unless she was a spy, she studied
the math. The math, the numbers don't lie. The math
(25:06):
is there. It's a lot of life. I think it's
aid open book test if you want to actually delve
into the book for sure.
Speaker 3 (25:13):
Yeah, I've never seen that movie, but you're right, all right, well,
I'm gonna have to catch that one here, but yeah,
you're exactly right. Like it's it just makes sense when
you dive into the math and you can see it,
and you know, there's all the different ways you can
teach your players, right, show them on film, write it
up for them, have them write it up, and have
(25:33):
them do it. So we spend a lot of time
with that and make sure these guys know the numbers
and what's best for them, because we just want to
simplify it for them and like they can play with
a free mind.
Speaker 1 (25:44):
That's the challenge, I would think in terms of you
have a wealth of data leading to a decision that
has to be made in the snap of your fingers.
On the court, because I think Mark's talking about you know,
less than a second at times.
Speaker 4 (25:57):
Right, Yes, you're exactly right.
Speaker 3 (25:58):
And that's why for us, over and over we tell
them what to do, go to the offensive glass. We
never say we never say you didn't go to the
offensive glass. We tell them exactly what to do, over
and over again. Like you said, there's no time to
you know, if we want to protect middle on defense
(26:20):
or we never want them to drive middle on defense.
We always say protect middle at the end of the day.
So you can't go middle, protect it, protect it, protect it.
So it's just they think about that. They got it
less than a split second to make a decision.
Speaker 1 (26:32):
So a small number of absolutes, is that correct?
Speaker 4 (26:36):
Correct, that's you're exactly right.
Speaker 3 (26:38):
Just a small number and just try to free up
their mind as much as possible.
Speaker 1 (26:44):
What interested you most about going down that path when
you started it as a basketball coach?
Speaker 3 (26:50):
When I started it, you know, we met with a
couple of sports site guys, and this was a long
time ago for me, man, I was like eleven, twelve,
thirteen years ago, something like that, you know, where you know,
you heard a bunch of coaches say, don't do this,
(27:11):
don't do that. Like when when I was talking to
sports like guy, He's like, you're never gonna buy a
book on how not to do something, so why are
you gonna say, you know, don't do this, don't do that?
And I was like, you know what, You're exactly right.
Why would I ever show somebody what they don't do?
I want to show him over and over what to do.
(27:34):
So that that's something that I was like, you know what,
that makes a ton of sense. So I've I try
not never to say don't and I just show him
what to do over and over again.
Speaker 4 (27:44):
If I want a.
Speaker 3 (27:44):
Guy to get to the deep corner, I'm gonna show
him clips of guys like Jackson Robinson get into the
deep corner. I'm gonna show him clips of Klay Thompson
get into the deep corner. So all different ways where
they see exactly what to do. And you know, there's
there's once in a while where our show one clip
of what they're not doing, but then I'll have ten
clips of showing him what to do.
Speaker 1 (28:07):
I don't know if he told you guys this as
a staff, but at J billis on the radio show
and he's obviously in town during the season, watching a
lot of your practices, and that was the thing that
he was his biggest takeaway that he liked about your
All's approach is the positivity.
Speaker 3 (28:23):
Yeah, I mean it just you know, I've been doing
this for twenty some years and I've always thought there's
you know, when I started, I worked for coach from Jeris,
who was an unbelievable basketball coach, unbelievable basketball mind. But
I was just like, man, there's got to be a
fun way to do this at the end of the day,
a better way, not only for the kid and for everybody.
(28:48):
Like I just think, joy and enjoy coming into work
every day, enjoy coming into practice every day. And that's
just something that I've always strived for. I know Coach Pope,
that's really important to him because you know, we've all
we've all had those days that are hard, and why
not just enjoy what you're doing.
Speaker 1 (29:08):
Coach Man Jeris is where I was gonna go next. Actually,
because a long time Kentucky fans know him most probably
as the coach at Utah, but very successful head coach
at multiple places. I first remember him as one of
Al McGuire's assistants because I liked Marquette. They wore flashy
uniforms as a kid. Even though Kentucky fans hated Al,
(29:28):
I thought they were cool. And Hank Raymond was the
lead assistant Raymond's and then but Jeris was a younger
guy on the staff. So my question when I ask
you was like, but Jeris seems like I had a
great basketball mind. He'd be Analytics would be right in
his wheelhouse. I don't know how much he used them
when you were working for him, but he worked for
the ultimate instinct guy for sure.
Speaker 4 (29:48):
Yeah, Al McGuire was the ultimate instinct guy.
Speaker 3 (29:50):
And yeah, coach mc jari's would have spent a good
amount of time with numbers, but he would have dove
into I think pretty sure how we do it.
Speaker 4 (30:01):
What are the top.
Speaker 3 (30:02):
Four things that help us win games? That's the only
thing I care about. I don't want to hear one
other thing from anybody on staff, or you know, what
help us win wins this game?
Speaker 4 (30:14):
He only he was.
Speaker 3 (30:16):
So incredible at figuring out what wins games and not
wasting time on what didn't. Now, he didn't address you
in front.
Speaker 4 (30:25):
Of everyone.
Speaker 3 (30:27):
If you got out of line with what wins games.
But that that's the biggest thing that I that I
took away from him, and he would exactly he'd talk
to the main analytic guy.
Speaker 4 (30:38):
We're like, all right, I don't care about that.
Speaker 3 (30:40):
Tell me exactly what wins games what doesn't, and I
don't want to hear anything else.
Speaker 1 (30:47):
When you first connected with Mark Pope, did you see
some similarities? It sounds it sounds like the guy you're
describing would be a way that somebody might describe Mark
Pope from the short time we've seen him here at
work at Kentucky that he kind of thinks that way.
Is that true?
Speaker 4 (31:02):
Yeah? Yeah.
Speaker 3 (31:03):
Coach Pope is all about just what wins games, you know,
and he wants these players to enjoy their lives, their families, everything.
He wants them to be their individuals. Now, Coach mc
jeris was not big on that. He wants these players
to be their individual selves and just make things better.
The biggest difference is coach mc jeris would try to
(31:24):
break them down as a freshman and sophomore and then
try to build them up after that, where at the
end of the day, we don't feel like we need
to break them down.
Speaker 4 (31:34):
Let's just build them up.
Speaker 3 (31:35):
From the start right away, here's where you need to
get better. These are the things we need to do.
But yeah, that's probably one of the biggest differences. He
wants a freshman to come in like he's a really
good player. I'm gonna let's keep on building them up,
Malachi Jasper, you know Yellowvick coming in. Let's build those
guys up and make them best right now. Like when
(31:56):
I was there with coach m Jerris and Andrew Bogit,
he broke them down right away, and he's still he
was so good. I mean, he was the first draft pick,
but like he still had a really hard time you
know where you know, Coach Pope is the exact opposite
with that.
Speaker 1 (32:11):
I wonder if Coach Majorius would have changed given that
the reality of the world now is if you break
them down, somebody else builds him back up.
Speaker 3 (32:19):
You're exactly right, he'd have a really hard time with that.
I mean, you'd have new fifteen guys every single year.
Speaker 1 (32:27):
You're a big football fan, I know, Packer guy from
where you grew up. I am wearing my Jim shorts
with the Bear's logo on there, and yet we can
still have a nice conversation. But I'm wondering, do you
as you watch for the football or any other sports
you watch, you ever see similarities to the sport you
live in.
Speaker 3 (32:46):
Yeah, first thing, there's no way I would have done
this interview if I saw these shorts that you're rocking
right now. You know, there's some there's some similarities where
you kind of see a quarterback kind of lead the team.
But but basketball is just like you got to play
offense and defense, and it's it's a NonStop where you
(33:07):
got to make quick decisions where coaches, I feel like,
have so much more you know, control during you know
NFL and college, but some college and the way we
want to play. We want to play fast and free
and let these guys make decisions where you can see,
you know, some college coaches in basketball they want to
(33:28):
hold their team up, let me run a play, so
that I think they play a little bit similar that way.
But the biggest similarities like how are they guarding defensively
and how how.
Speaker 4 (33:42):
Can we take advantage?
Speaker 3 (33:43):
And and I think our guys do an incredible job.
Coach Pope does an incredible job teaching our guys on
what to look for the advantages.
Speaker 1 (33:51):
I'm sure as you guys, I'm I always say I'm sure.
I'm guessing as a staff collectively, you should go through
the process of considering who to bring into your pro
grim each year with all the transfer stuff. There's things
you can look at on paper, the numbers or on tape,
but there's the third component I'm guessing that you get
to where you make the decision Okay, he's one of
(34:12):
our guys, or no, he's not one of our guys,
even though he's very skilled.
Speaker 4 (34:16):
Yeah, I mean that's a huge part.
Speaker 3 (34:19):
We want to win a national championship and we want
to bring guys in where that's their biggest goal, that's
their first goal. We've turned away a lot of guys.
We'll have like a you know, the zoom and we'll
be like, well, this kid's just not the right fit.
He's not all about trying to win a national championship.
And you know, we do so much of you know,
(34:43):
as fast as we can making calls about them because
it's a three week window basically where you have got
to know the ins and outs of this kid as
fast as you can. And so, yeah, these are things
that we we work hard, like soon as our season
was over, It was on, it was on, it was
(35:06):
you know, burning the midnight over for three weeks right
after that Final four. You didn't enjoy the Final four
at all because you're on the phone the whole time. So, yeah,
it's a different deal, but you have to do the
background checks and everybody.
Speaker 1 (35:20):
Last question, as you guys look at this team, you
have the luxury of having some carryover from guys who
came back. Does that just naturally mean the leadership component
that's going to come together quicker or better or does
each team have to kind of find its own way
on that.
Speaker 3 (35:39):
Yeah, since we have some returners, I think that's going
to be really helpful for us, you know, with with
having things in right now, six practices in, I feel
like we're farther along than last year's team. We had
an older team last year. You know, we had how
many COVID guys. We had what three or four or
five COVID guys, So we had a bunch of COVID
(36:00):
guys that were you know, twenty three, twenty four.
Speaker 4 (36:03):
So we're a little bit younger this year.
Speaker 3 (36:05):
But it was so grateful to have have some returners
back that can really help us. You know, put this
team together and understanding what it takes to be at
Kentucky and how important winning and being a great teammate,
playing for each other, and we want we want this
team to lead themselves. Player led teams are the best.
(36:28):
We had a practice today and that was one thing
that we talked about a ton is. You know, I
was explaining something and I was like, why am I doing? Trent, No,
you got it, You take it, Colin Chandler, Brandon Garrison,
otego away right. We want those guys taking ownership of
what we're doing out there.
Speaker 4 (36:47):
Thank you much, Thank you. Go pack.
This podcast of The Leech Report is presented by Boone's
Butcher Shop in Barnstown at one hundred Old Bloomfield Pike,
Family owned and operated since nineteen forty six, with fresh
meat cut on site daily. Boons Butcher Shop. It's the
Leech Report coming to you from the Clark's Pumping Shop studio. Return,
refresh and refuel at Clark's and we're gonna reminisce a
(00:23):
little bit about the Big Red Machine fiftieth anniversary of
the first of two World Series titles coming this season
and last weekend up at Great American Ballpark, the Reds
were host of the Padres and on Friday night they
had the big celebration and Doug Flynn was a part
of it. Was a rookie on the Big Red Machine
team in seventy five. That was pretty good timing for you.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
Well, you know what the it's all about. The timing. Yeah,
it was kind of wild, you know, because three years
before that, I was just going to a junior college
and trying to make my grades playing any sports and
go to the tryout camp and shoot. It seemed like
a short three years in the minor league and then boom,
(01:07):
there we are opening day in nineteen seventy five, I
got a picture of men Pete leaning out over the
railing in the dugout and going back this week, it
was really, really a good experience, Tom, is it very emotional.
We've got twelve guys from the seventy five and seventy
sixteen that weren't there, but the twenty three of us
(01:28):
had showed up. There were tears, there were hugs, and
as Johnny said, we hugged the We shook hands the
first day, we hugged the second day, and we were
kissing the third day. It was just so good to
see everybody.
Speaker 1 (01:39):
Again, so so many good memories for all of us
that were fans of those teams. And I know it
was that way for you too. And by the way,
I'll throw it and aside. David Patrick did a wonderful
feature with Doug our long sit down interview that aired
over the weekend on KYT and the CWS. I'm sure
you can find that online and if you missed it
(02:01):
or didn't get it recorded. It has to be so
much fun, you know, reminiscing, because you know the stories
are like fishing stories, they get better with time.
Speaker 2 (02:14):
Right, and it takes a little longer to tell them too,
because you sit there for a while. And one thing
I found out by going to reunions is I found
this out of my high school reunions. You know, people,
they change physically pretty much a lot. You know, your hair,
your weight, whatever. But when you look into a person's eyes,
as I looked around at those other twenty two guys
(02:36):
there and saw into their eyes, it just brought back
fifty years of some of the great things we were
able to go through, some of the tough times in
the minor leagues with a lot of my buddies who
we basically spent two or three years and the miners
together before we made it. And then when you start
telling the stories about and trust me, the stories don't
get worse, they get longer, but they do get better.
Speaker 1 (02:58):
Yeah, I bet a lot of those were part of
the World Series team in nineteen seventy that lost to
the Orioles, and then the next year, after a down season,
they made the big trade that brought Morgan into the Reds,
and then they won a pennant again but lost in
the World Series, and then won a division and lost
in the divisional playoff. So you come in as the
(03:19):
new guy. But what did you sense about the mindset
of those veterans going into that season.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
I don't think people will ever realize just how much
pressure they were under, because individually, when you look at
Pete and Johnny and Joe Tony Prez, they were having
statistics that probably warned them getting into the Hall of Fame.
They were that dominant players. And yet the one thing
that was lacking was to say, well, they weren't on
(03:45):
a winner, and there have been a lot of really
good players like Ernie Banks, for instance, who was never
on a World Series champion, and so you could sense
that they were on a mission. And I mean, it
was all business at the ballpark. I've told people that
the IQ of this much was higher than any I've
ever played. You didn't have to tell guys to move runners,
you didn't have to tell them the fun of guy over.
(04:06):
You never had to worry about where they were going
to be on a cutoff, and there was sort of
a sense of urgency that they had, and they went
through this business like almost scary business like, because for
a young kid like me, you were afraid to get
out of line, and most of us, as rookies or
extra guys. We didn't talk a lot. We would go
(04:27):
and get prepared and we would do what we were
asked to do, and then we would speak if we
were spoken to. But on the other side of that
is I can't imagine anybody being any more gracious and
good to those of us that were first or second,
your players or utility players, because they had one mission,
and they also were the guys, because Sparky would ask
(04:49):
them what do we need on this team and who
do we need And it was through their opinions that
they put the big Red machine together. When I got there,
they just told you, I don't know what you know
about the Dodgers other than the fact that you hate them,
and that's who we got to beat. And then in
the other vision with the Phillies and the Pirates were good.
It seems like every single year, But I remember in
(05:10):
seventy five we got off to a slow start and
San Diego was in first place, and I remember hearing
guys say, we're good, don't worry about it. And then
we were in Montreal and we were twenty and twenty one,
I believe, or nineteen to twenty. Like a game under
five hundred, Sparky called a meeting, and in that meeting
he basically got all over all of us young kids.
And when he was getting on us, then Pete stood
(05:31):
up and he took up for us, and then Joe
took up for us, and Johnny took up forth, and
then Tony stood up and basically called spark every name
you could think of and said, get off the kids.
He said, when the big dog starts hitting, and we'll
be fine. We come back to Cincinnati playing the Mets.
Tom Seavers started against us. We ended up with an
eight to four lead, and then I remember pretty well
(05:51):
because that's the night I got to go in. I
was supposed to bunt, and the count went to three
and one. I got to swing and I hit a
home run. We went eleven to four, and when the
next forty one out of fifty, and boy, after we
did that, I mean we were off and rolling, and
you could just see it wasn't just let's go out
and win a game. Let's go out and beat people
and beat them bad.
Speaker 1 (06:10):
Yeah. One I think what I read, one hundred and
eight games that year.
Speaker 2 (06:14):
Yeah, one hundred and eight that year.
Speaker 1 (06:16):
Beat the Dodgers by twenty games.
Speaker 2 (06:18):
Yeah, yeah, it was amazing because when we went on
that forty one out of fifty, it puts the league
away and then it you know, there was no complacency whatsoever.
Guys just kept saying, let's keep pouring it on, let's
keep winning, and you started getting that kind of confidence.
And of course when we went to the playoffs, we
had to play the Pirates that year and they had
a really good ball club ended up winning it in
seventy nine with virtually the same club, and then we
(06:41):
beat them, and of course the Great World Series was Boston,
so and then I tell people, you know, the pressure
was all off after that, and so in nineteen seventy
six we win. I think we went by twelve that year,
but it was like we just kept rolling and it
was such a smooth year. And that these guys now
they got the pressure off their back. They were just
out there showing out.
Speaker 1 (07:01):
Talking with Doug Flynn here on the Leach Report, and
we will continue in just a moment. We're presented each
day by bobcat Enterprises back into the Leach Report and
we're visiting with my buddy Doug Flynn about the Big
Red Machine, the EI the fiftieth anniversary celebration last weekend
up in Cincinnati. Everybody needs somebody to believe in them,
(07:22):
whether it's in the business or the team or whatever. Sparky,
I'm guessing, was that guy for you, right?
Speaker 2 (07:29):
I'm not sure.
Speaker 1 (07:31):
Well, he puts you on the team.
Speaker 2 (07:34):
You know, it's funny. You know who told me I
made the team time? You'll love this. So I go
to spring training and I get invited in seventy four.
I get about two weeks there, then they send me down.
That was pretty customary, but they could bring you back
up to playing games and not have to pay you.
Then some rules change, So seventy five I go and
I know that they concept Field and Joe Morgan are
(07:55):
probably not going to be in their best shape because
they would use spring training to get into shape, as
did Pete and Johnny and some other guys. So I
went down in the best shape I could be in,
started playing early, and I started hitting, And I really
believe that Marty Brendaman told me yesterday, Sparky did not
take me out of the lineup. I played in every
spring training game because once I got going good, they said,
(08:18):
well if we take him out now, look bad if
we don't keep him. So if we keep playing he
maybe he'll play himself out of the lineup. Well, I
ended up setting a record for HISS that year. And
so three days before we break camp, we go into
Lakeland to play the Tigers and Steve Hamilton was down
there as a coach and he comes running up to
me and he says, Douggie. He says, where do you
go man? You're going north with the team. And I said,
(08:39):
how you know that? He said, Sparky told us. He said.
I went over to him and say, Sparky, I got
a friend on that team. He's having a pretty good spring.
How's he going to do? And Sparky said, well, he's
going north with it. So Steve Hamilton is the guy
who actually told me the club.
Speaker 1 (08:53):
Yeah, it's a pretty challenging infield to break into Hall
of Fame first baseman, Hall of Fame, second baseman. When
they moved roads to third Hall of Famer at third
Hall of Fame catcher and should be a Hall of
Fame shortstop.
Speaker 2 (09:08):
Yeah, that's why in the minor league with the Reds,
you always wanted to make it to the big league,
but you never thought it was going to be with
that ball club. You thought, all right, I'll play good
in the minors and some other team will need or something.
And our outfield was the same way. You had Foster
and Geronimo and Griffy and the outfield. So guys like
Joel Youngblood and Ed Armbrister and hear Me, Junior, Kennedy,
Ray Knight, we were all down in the minor leagues
(09:28):
and we're thinking, all right, well, let's play good maybe
somebody because we can't break into that lineup. And as
a matter of fact, that's one of the reasons I
got traded. They had a good chance to get Tom
sever and they were looking for a throw in, which
is what I basically was. And Johnny Bench said, he
tells me now, said you know what I told him,
Why don't they take you? And I said, why you
do that? He said, because you deserve the right to
(09:49):
play every day somewhere and you weren't going to play here.
Speaker 1 (09:52):
And things worked out well in New York. Won a
Gold Glove in nineteen eighty. I mean, it wasn't the
big red machine, but you want a gold Glove inte
nine ninety one fielding percentage, So that's a nice achievement
to have on the resume as well, but still nothing
like that. Nothing feels like, you know, winning as a team,
does it?
Speaker 2 (10:12):
No, it really doesn't. I mean, all these years later,
I know you know that I win the Gold Glove.
I'm not going around celebrating Gold Glove anniversaries or anything
like that, because there's a lot of people that get them,
and you're thankful that you do get it. But man,
when you walked in that room the other day and
you saw some of these guys, and some I really
haven't seen for a long time, like Manny Sarmiento and
(10:32):
Santo Alkalai, Terry Crowley, Freddie Norman. These are guys that
I just Pat Darcy I see a little bit some
of the other guys I've seen through Fantasy Camp and
a couple of functions up at the Reds Hall of Fame,
which did an incredible job of putting this together along
with Johnny Bench. Johnny at first was contacted to see
what he thought about doing this, and originally I understand
(10:55):
they weren't going to bring the whole team in, and
Johnny basically says, no, it's either all of us or
no of us.
Speaker 1 (11:00):
So good for him.
Speaker 2 (11:01):
He went out of his way to make this a special,
special weekend.
Speaker 1 (11:04):
My dad was a huge baseball fan, So I mean
we grew up, you know, going to so many Reds
games in those days, and you know, watching when we
couldn't be there, listening to Marty and Joe And speaking
of Dad's, your dad and my dad played on a
famous team, the first integrated team south of the Mason
Dixon line. So the story goes the Lexington Hustlers and
(11:26):
played Scoop Brown, legendary figure around these parts was the
player manager. And I know my dad said it was
always the best team he'd ever played on.
Speaker 2 (11:34):
True, and my dad played a year in the minor
league was Brooklyn when I played with Johnny Padres and
Hazard Kentucky. But I meant to ask you, tom My,
Dad and I looked around one time and I saw
all these guys that had nicknames like Bill Dooley Berry
and Peter Damn Mason and you know, Scoop Brown. And
I'm thinking, Dad, did you have a nickname? He said yeah.
(11:55):
I said what was it? He said, Snowflake.
Speaker 1 (12:02):
For those who don't know, it was And this I
think the team started in the same year Jackie Robinson
integrated Butch League Baseball. Yeah, and I think our dads
may have joined a little later. But it was the
Lexington Hustlers was a team owned by a group of
African American businessmen in Lexington and they needed a second basement,
(12:26):
so the story goes, and they reached out to your
dad because he and Scoop were friends, and so they
just found a good ballplayer. Davy Whitney from Midway was
a legendary basketball coach at Alcorn State was on the team.
I think Jim Host pitched for him a little bit.
Speaker 2 (12:41):
But you know, Tom, there's still people today that'll come
up and say something about that team, that Hustler team
that they've heard from either their parents or their grandparents,
and it's really cool to hear the stories. And you know,
I remember they came to dad and they wanted to
make a big deal, like Bobby, you crossed the color Bear,
and he went, no, I didn't. I wanted to play
with the best in town and the other teams didn't
(13:02):
want me. And Scoop calls and says, hey, you can play,
but you're gonna have to try out, he said, So
I went out and tried it out and made the team.
And he said they weren't making a statement, and I
wasn't making a statement. We were just guys that loved
to play baseball. We wanted to play good baseball. Well,
you know Lou Johnson and Bill john Yeah, yeah, they
had played some with them. I think they were in
(13:22):
the Service. But Dad would tell me about playing against
the Indianapolis Clowns and Goose Tatum and all those teams.
He said, man, he said, Doug, there were some ball
players there that everyone they should have been in the
big league. Oh, and you know what, tom My dad
probably was a big My dad was so much better
than me. He could hit, he could run. I was
probably a better defender than him. I'm not sure of that,
but he had. I mean I can remember him just
(13:45):
being gritty and being able to steal bases, and he could,
he could hit, And I took after mom. I was
a good fielder.
Speaker 1 (13:52):
Yes, your mom played fast patch softball too, right, Yes,
he did.
Speaker 2 (13:56):
Hear my aunt Rose. I think with a aunt. Rose
played third, Mom played second, and Mom used to tell
me that they were really really good, you know, because
you didn't have flow bits back in those days. You
just had fast pitch, but she was good. That's who
I used to warm up with a lot when I
started getting older and playing the Little League in Pony League,
because Dad would be referring or umpiring and gone, and
(14:16):
Mom would be out there. And trust me, she could
handle her own with me up until I got, you know,
probably in high school.
Speaker 1 (14:22):
Let me ask you back to the Reds about the
seventy five series up in Boston, since the Reds as this,
this is gonna zerring on the show here, the Reds
will have just finished up a series at Fenway, where
you guys started in seventy five, and what was it
like when you went back there in for game six?
In the Carlton Fisk kits that home run around midnight
(14:45):
and they looks like they've got all the momentum. What
was it like but that twenty four hours before you
got to play again miserable?
Speaker 2 (14:54):
Well, it wasn't really, because when the game was over.
I mean, we've been watching the film over the last
week weekend and Roleigh Eastucker sitting there and somehow Bernie
Carbo fouls off the pitch before he hits the other
one out of Paul Park, and now it's tied Fi
hits the home run. We thought it was foul, and
the umpire wasn't sure, but George Foster said, no, it
(15:15):
was fair. And so the game's over. The writers are
in there. My locker's pretty close to Pete's and one
of the writers says, so, Pete, you got to be devastated, man,
You guys, this is what was lacking on all of
your all's resume a World Series victory. And Pete said devastated.
He said, tomorrow night's going to be the seventh game
(15:36):
of the World Series. We're the only game in town.
Everybody in America is going to be in around the
globe is going to be watching this game on television.
We got our best picture on the man. Man, I
can't wait about that. And all of a sudden, I thought,
all right, because you know, I made sixteen thousand dollars
that year. If we win the World Series, I'm probably
gonna make another fourteen to fifteen. All of a sudden,
(15:58):
but you're thinking, man, that's more money than I ever
thought i'd making my life. And then we're gonna get
a ring. And that's not what Pete and Johnny and
them were thinking. They were trying to add to the legacy,
and they needed to have that World Series win. And
then boy, after that, as I told you, the next year,
we just rolled.
Speaker 1 (16:16):
Doug. Let me ask you one other thing. Dave Parker
just passed played for the Reds for a while, but
was a great star before that with the Pirates, and
had a chance to meet him at the Reds Hall
of Fame last summer as he was fighting Parkinson's But
he was, you know, just the talent in those days
that you guys had on your team and you had
(16:36):
to go up against was incredible, you know, Dave.
Speaker 2 (16:38):
I remember the first time I saw him and I thought,
all right, maybe one of the Steelers is out here
loosening up, get ready, six five, two fifty. Maybe could
run like a deer had a cannon for an arm.
I didn't really know Dave a lot when we played,
but got to know him a little bit after it.
But one of the things that I do remember is
that when we were playing, he would always be a
(16:59):
lot of chatter the cages. And when I was with
the Mets and started being an everyday player, the Pirates
would come out and they were huge and they could
swing the back and Dave would say he dug, you,
you better hope I hit a double, because if I hit
a single, I'm coming after it, and went, oh crap,
Well we played several years. Well, I'm in Montreal down
(17:20):
to toward the end of my career. In Dave's play,
he's on first base as a groundball hit the short
I come to second. It's not hit hard, and I
know he's gonna be right on top of me. I
get it, turn the double play, jump in the air.
He takes my feet out from under me and catches
me in midair and lays me down very gently, he said.
He says, Doug, you we've been in the game too
long for either one of us to get hurt.
Speaker 1 (17:42):
How about that? What a story? And that is a
great story to close out a very fun interview with
Doug Flynn coming up with a heartbreak at the bottom
of the hour. Well here from you, k Men's assistant
basketball coach Cody Figure coming up in the second half
of the show. Let me take a second and tell
you about corn bread Hemp and a special they have
for the July fourth weekend. It's a chance to give
(18:03):
their products a try. You buy one, you get one
half off, the infused gummies, the oils, the lotions, the
new infused seltzers. They give you an all natural refreshing
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So whatever you need to unwind, corn Bread Hemp has
(18:23):
the products to help you do that, and you can
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and get the second one half off cornbreadhamp dot com.
This is the good life. We do this pre recorded
edition of the Leach Report for July third, since it
was part of the holiday weekend. So we just heard
(18:45):
from Doug Flynn. Next up, it's an interview that I
recently taped with UK assistant men's basketball coach Cody Figer.
Some really interesting stuff here about their approach as a
staff and some greater insight into the analytics components. So Cody,
want to talk a little bit about from the offensive
perspective for this next team. First of all, when you guys,
(19:08):
because you've been with Coach Pope the longest, I guess
I think right when you guys were talking about coming here,
coming into a different league, what did you expect and
how did it differ from what you live through?
Speaker 3 (19:24):
Yeah, with last year into mind offensively, you know, at
the end of the day, we want to play as
fast as we can, right, shoot as many threes as
we can. And last year we weren't just up to
part with exactly what we wanted to do there, you know,
some of it with injuries, you know, so it was
this and that. But at the end of the day,
(19:45):
we want to be able to shoot more threes. We
want to be able to shoot more threes. We want
you know, the guys play fast, free and fearless at
the end of the day. And yeah, we weren't able
to get as many threes up. We still played ti
thirty in pace last year, but we want to we
want to move all those numbers up as we put
(20:06):
this roster together.
Speaker 1 (20:07):
So with this collection you guys have put together for
the second season and these days, every team is going
to be pretty dramatically different from one year to the next.
What do you think this team's strengths offensively will be.
Speaker 3 (20:22):
So, you know, as you asked that question, completely honest,
I'm not sure yet. We got we got you know,
a lot of guys that can really play. And you know,
even last year at this time, we weren't for sure.
Now we knew Kobe Brayer could really shoot it, and
we knew Jackson Robbins really shoot it.
Speaker 4 (20:41):
Like, we got guys that.
Speaker 3 (20:41):
We know can shoot it really well, Cam Williams this
and that. But we're still figuring out. We're only you know,
kind of six workouts in right now, and we're really
doing skill development right now. But one thing we're gonna
do is we're gonna be able to score the ball
because we're gonna play fast and free. But we got
Jalen Low who can really pass the ball, really good
(21:03):
decision maker. We're going to play very similar to last year,
but hopefully get more threes and more possessions. We want
to even play more in transition, like we want to
be a top ten transition team. We want to push
this pace every single time. One thing we're going to
do way better job of this year, and I can
promise you is offensive rebound. We're going to be way
(21:24):
better at that because that's something that we're teaching a
little bit different this year, and we're holding guys accountable
a little bit more this year. We've got the bodies
to throw in there this year. So offensive rebounding I
think is going to make a huge jump.
Speaker 1 (21:39):
Is the confidence that you'll be able to get to
that number of threes and play at the pace you
want come from. The depth that you guys have. Is
that because of the injuries, maybe what you lacked last
season to get where you want to do in that area.
Speaker 4 (21:54):
Yes, for sure.
Speaker 3 (21:55):
You know, like when Kirk Chrisa was out there, you know,
we had two points that could go really fast and
then we just had these younger guys that we had
to build up quick.
Speaker 4 (22:06):
So that's for sure a thing.
Speaker 3 (22:07):
We got a lot of really good, talented guys on
this team that we feel like we can fly up
and down the floor with. You know, maybe we'll pick
up a little bit more defensively also, but offensively we
are going it's an all out trying to score that
thing as fast as we can this year.
Speaker 4 (22:24):
So it's gonna be fun.
Speaker 3 (22:25):
Our guys are gonna put their head down, get to
the basket, playoff two feet and try to find shooters.
Speaker 1 (22:31):
As you get got into the analytics part of this,
and it's certainly growing, is there ever a time, you
see where it gets to the point where everybody's doing
it to a level that just the kind of in
any aspect of life, there's the yang and the yang
of you know, something then develops in the other direction
(22:52):
to combat that. See it in football a lot, you know,
with trends that develop where that anything changes about the
use of analytics because it's so widely used.
Speaker 3 (23:04):
For sure, Yeah, I mean there's so many people that
dive into so many different things on it. But at
the end of the day, you know, to simplify it
all for us, what we want, we want more possessions
than the other team.
Speaker 4 (23:16):
So at the end of the day with our.
Speaker 3 (23:18):
Guys, we just kind of talked to them about that,
like offensive rebound, more possessions, protecting the ball, not turn
the ball over, more possessions, and then effictive field goal
percentage like those are all things that we want our
guys thinking about. We don't want to dive too much
into the weeds with it for them to make them
think too much, right, we want them playing fast and
(23:41):
free and fearless, not thinking about all that, but just
giving them direction on what to do. That's a huge
thing on what to do we're going to the offensive
glass every single time. Four guys, we're sitting the offensive
glass every single time, flying in there so we get
more possessions. We show them exactly what to do with
protecting the ball so we're not turning it over. So
(24:03):
we just do that over and over and over again.
Speaker 4 (24:05):
So they just.
Speaker 3 (24:06):
Build that habit, and like I said, we don't want
to dive too much into the weeds with it, but
people are getting kind of carried away right now what
exactly wins games? So we'd study it every year, and
you know, I think the biggest thing for the teams
that won this year at the end of the day
was effective field goal percentage. So we talk about what
(24:27):
good shots and we want to get these shots over
and over again, and especially each player is a little
bit different. What's the best shot for you, what's the
best shot for you? Making a play for teammate, those
types of ways where we get effective field goal percentage
and then getting the offensive glass, getting more possessions.
Speaker 1 (24:43):
So I don't know how much of a movie guy
you are, but the movie Hidden Figures about the ladies,
African American ladies that helped the NASA program. The Catherine Johnson,
the League character, and there's part of the part of
the movie she talks about here she's figured the stuff
out that they can't understan and how she figured it
out if she unless she was a spy, she studied
the math. The math, the numbers don't lie. The math
(25:06):
is there. It's a lot of life. I think it's
aid open book test if you want to actually delve
into the book for sure.
Speaker 3 (25:13):
Yeah, I've never seen that movie, but you're right, all right, well,
I'm gonna have to catch that one here, but yeah,
you're exactly right. Like it's it just makes sense when
you dive into the math and you can see it,
and you know, there's all the different ways you can
teach your players, right, show them on film, write it
up for them, have them write it up, and have
(25:33):
them do it. So we spend a lot of time
with that and make sure these guys know the numbers
and what's best for them, because we just want to
simplify it for them and like they can play with
a free mind.
Speaker 1 (25:44):
That's the challenge, I would think in terms of you
have a wealth of data leading to a decision that
has to be made in the snap of your fingers.
On the court, because I think Mark's talking about you know,
less than a second at times.
Speaker 4 (25:57):
Right, Yes, you're exactly right.
Speaker 3 (25:58):
And that's why for us, over and over we tell
them what to do, go to the offensive glass. We
never say we never say you didn't go to the
offensive glass. We tell them exactly what to do, over
and over again. Like you said, there's no time to
you know, if we want to protect middle on defense
(26:20):
or we never want them to drive middle on defense.
We always say protect middle at the end of the day.
So you can't go middle, protect it, protect it, protect it.
So it's just they think about that. They got it
less than a split second to make a decision.
Speaker 1 (26:32):
So a small number of absolutes, is that correct?
Speaker 4 (26:36):
Correct, that's you're exactly right.
Speaker 3 (26:38):
Just a small number and just try to free up
their mind as much as possible.
Speaker 1 (26:44):
What interested you most about going down that path when
you started it as a basketball coach?
Speaker 3 (26:50):
When I started it, you know, we met with a
couple of sports site guys, and this was a long
time ago for me, man, I was like eleven, twelve,
thirteen years ago, something like that, you know, where you know,
you heard a bunch of coaches say, don't do this,
(27:11):
don't do that. Like when when I was talking to
sports like guy, He's like, you're never gonna buy a
book on how not to do something, so why are
you gonna say, you know, don't do this, don't do that?
And I was like, you know what, You're exactly right.
Why would I ever show somebody what they don't do?
I want to show him over and over what to do.
(27:34):
So that that's something that I was like, you know what,
that makes a ton of sense. So I've I try
not never to say don't and I just show him
what to do over and over again.
Speaker 4 (27:44):
If I want a.
Speaker 3 (27:44):
Guy to get to the deep corner, I'm gonna show
him clips of guys like Jackson Robinson get into the
deep corner. I'm gonna show him clips of Klay Thompson
get into the deep corner. So all different ways where
they see exactly what to do. And you know, there's
there's once in a while where our show one clip
of what they're not doing, but then I'll have ten
clips of showing him what to do.
Speaker 1 (28:07):
I don't know if he told you guys this as
a staff, but at J billis on the radio show
and he's obviously in town during the season, watching a
lot of your practices, and that was the thing that
he was his biggest takeaway that he liked about your
All's approach is the positivity.
Speaker 3 (28:23):
Yeah, I mean it just you know, I've been doing
this for twenty some years and I've always thought there's
you know, when I started, I worked for coach from Jeris,
who was an unbelievable basketball coach, unbelievable basketball mind. But
I was just like, man, there's got to be a
fun way to do this at the end of the day,
a better way, not only for the kid and for everybody.
(28:48):
Like I just think, joy and enjoy coming into work
every day, enjoy coming into practice every day. And that's
just something that I've always strived for. I know Coach Pope,
that's really important to him because you know, we've all
we've all had those days that are hard, and why
not just enjoy what you're doing.
Speaker 1 (29:08):
Coach Man Jeris is where I was gonna go next. Actually,
because a long time Kentucky fans know him most probably
as the coach at Utah, but very successful head coach
at multiple places. I first remember him as one of
Al McGuire's assistants because I liked Marquette. They wore flashy
uniforms as a kid. Even though Kentucky fans hated Al,
(29:28):
I thought they were cool. And Hank Raymond was the
lead assistant Raymond's and then but Jeris was a younger
guy on the staff. So my question when I ask
you was like, but Jeris seems like I had a
great basketball mind. He'd be Analytics would be right in
his wheelhouse. I don't know how much he used them
when you were working for him, but he worked for
the ultimate instinct guy for sure.
Speaker 4 (29:48):
Yeah, Al McGuire was the ultimate instinct guy.
Speaker 3 (29:50):
And yeah, coach mc jari's would have spent a good
amount of time with numbers, but he would have dove
into I think pretty sure how we do it.
Speaker 4 (30:01):
What are the top.
Speaker 3 (30:02):
Four things that help us win games? That's the only
thing I care about. I don't want to hear one
other thing from anybody on staff, or you know, what
help us win wins this game?
Speaker 4 (30:14):
He only he was.
Speaker 3 (30:16):
So incredible at figuring out what wins games and not
wasting time on what didn't. Now, he didn't address you
in front.
Speaker 4 (30:25):
Of everyone.
Speaker 3 (30:27):
If you got out of line with what wins games.
But that that's the biggest thing that I that I
took away from him, and he would exactly he'd talk
to the main analytic guy.
Speaker 4 (30:38):
We're like, all right, I don't care about that.
Speaker 3 (30:40):
Tell me exactly what wins games what doesn't, and I
don't want to hear anything else.
Speaker 1 (30:47):
When you first connected with Mark Pope, did you see
some similarities? It sounds it sounds like the guy you're
describing would be a way that somebody might describe Mark
Pope from the short time we've seen him here at
work at Kentucky that he kind of thinks that way.
Is that true?
Speaker 4 (31:02):
Yeah? Yeah.
Speaker 3 (31:03):
Coach Pope is all about just what wins games, you know,
and he wants these players to enjoy their lives, their families, everything.
He wants them to be their individuals. Now, Coach mc
jeris was not big on that. He wants these players
to be their individual selves and just make things better.
The biggest difference is coach mc jeris would try to
(31:24):
break them down as a freshman and sophomore and then
try to build them up after that, where at the
end of the day, we don't feel like we need
to break them down.
Speaker 4 (31:34):
Let's just build them up.
Speaker 3 (31:35):
From the start right away, here's where you need to
get better. These are the things we need to do.
But yeah, that's probably one of the biggest differences. He
wants a freshman to come in like he's a really
good player. I'm gonna let's keep on building them up,
Malachi Jasper, you know Yellowvick coming in. Let's build those
guys up and make them best right now. Like when
(31:56):
I was there with coach m Jerris and Andrew Bogit,
he broke them down right away, and he's still he
was so good. I mean, he was the first draft pick,
but like he still had a really hard time you
know where you know, Coach Pope is the exact opposite
with that.
Speaker 1 (32:11):
I wonder if Coach Majorius would have changed given that
the reality of the world now is if you break
them down, somebody else builds him back up.
Speaker 3 (32:19):
You're exactly right, he'd have a really hard time with that.
I mean, you'd have new fifteen guys every single year.
Speaker 1 (32:27):
You're a big football fan, I know, Packer guy from
where you grew up. I am wearing my Jim shorts
with the Bear's logo on there, and yet we can
still have a nice conversation. But I'm wondering, do you
as you watch for the football or any other sports
you watch, you ever see similarities to the sport you
live in.
Speaker 3 (32:46):
Yeah, first thing, there's no way I would have done
this interview if I saw these shorts that you're rocking
right now. You know, there's some there's some similarities where
you kind of see a quarterback kind of lead the team.
But but basketball is just like you got to play
offense and defense, and it's it's a NonStop where you
(33:07):
got to make quick decisions where coaches, I feel like,
have so much more you know, control during you know
NFL and college, but some college and the way we
want to play. We want to play fast and free
and let these guys make decisions where you can see,
you know, some college coaches in basketball they want to
(33:28):
hold their team up, let me run a play, so
that I think they play a little bit similar that way.
But the biggest similarities like how are they guarding defensively
and how how.
Speaker 4 (33:42):
Can we take advantage?
Speaker 3 (33:43):
And and I think our guys do an incredible job.
Coach Pope does an incredible job teaching our guys on
what to look for the advantages.
Speaker 1 (33:51):
I'm sure as you guys, I'm I always say I'm sure.
I'm guessing as a staff collectively, you should go through
the process of considering who to bring into your pro
grim each year with all the transfer stuff. There's things
you can look at on paper, the numbers or on tape,
but there's the third component I'm guessing that you get
to where you make the decision Okay, he's one of
(34:12):
our guys, or no, he's not one of our guys,
even though he's very skilled.
Speaker 4 (34:16):
Yeah, I mean that's a huge part.
Speaker 3 (34:19):
We want to win a national championship and we want
to bring guys in where that's their biggest goal, that's
their first goal. We've turned away a lot of guys.
We'll have like a you know, the zoom and we'll
be like, well, this kid's just not the right fit.
He's not all about trying to win a national championship.
And you know, we do so much of you know,
(34:43):
as fast as we can making calls about them because
it's a three week window basically where you have got
to know the ins and outs of this kid as
fast as you can. And so, yeah, these are things
that we we work hard, like soon as our season
was over, It was on, it was on, it was
(35:06):
you know, burning the midnight over for three weeks right
after that Final four. You didn't enjoy the Final four
at all because you're on the phone the whole time. So, yeah,
it's a different deal, but you have to do the
background checks and everybody.
Speaker 1 (35:20):
Last question, as you guys look at this team, you
have the luxury of having some carryover from guys who
came back. Does that just naturally mean the leadership component
that's going to come together quicker or better or does
each team have to kind of find its own way
on that.
Speaker 3 (35:39):
Yeah, since we have some returners, I think that's going
to be really helpful for us, you know, with with
having things in right now, six practices in, I feel
like we're farther along than last year's team. We had
an older team last year. You know, we had how
many COVID guys. We had what three or four or
five COVID guys, So we had a bunch of COVID
(36:00):
guys that were you know, twenty three, twenty four.
Speaker 4 (36:03):
So we're a little bit younger this year.
Speaker 3 (36:05):
But it was so grateful to have have some returners
back that can really help us. You know, put this
team together and understanding what it takes to be at
Kentucky and how important winning and being a great teammate,
playing for each other, and we want we want this
team to lead themselves. Player led teams are the best.
(36:28):
We had a practice today and that was one thing
that we talked about a ton is. You know, I
was explaining something and I was like, why am I doing? Trent, No,
you got it, You take it, Colin Chandler, Brandon Garrison,
otego away right. We want those guys taking ownership of
what we're doing out there.
Speaker 4 (36:47):
Thank you much, Thank you. Go pack.
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