June 3, 2025 • 9 mins
DV talks to the former umpire and current rules analyst on Apple TV. Brian talks about the misleading strike zone on TV, the obstruction rule, and ejecting Tommy Lasorda.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
And now an exclusive interview with David Bassey for Dodger Talking.
The Dodgers and Mets are getting set for Game two
of this four game series, and we're joined right now
by a man that was a Major League umpire for
thirty years and now he's that Mike Pereira for Major
League Baseball on Friday Night broadcast. And that's the one
(00:21):
and only great Irishmen, Brian Gorman. Brian, thanks a lot
for the time.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Thanks appreciate you having me on.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
This is a lot clearer than zoom a little bit,
a little bit. Yeah, you need the technology, right, Hey,
when you look at the game now and how it's
changed and just how umpires are being graded, do you
feel for your fellow brethren on just how much they
have to juggle these days?
Speaker 2 (00:43):
Yeah, we talk about it a lot.
Speaker 3 (00:44):
Since since a pitch clock came into existence, everything's getting condensed.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
They called the same amount of pitches, they call the
same amount of plays.
Speaker 3 (00:52):
Everything's just done in a short amount of time. So
the biggest difference from like when I work and from
the times that you do now is that they don't
have a break. Used to like between pitches, used to
be able to take a breath and take a break
and kind of reset.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
Now they can't do that.
Speaker 3 (01:07):
They're watching picture disengagements and the clock's taken down, and.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
So they're always working.
Speaker 3 (01:13):
So it's intense two and a half hours as opposed
to a little bit more relaxed three hours.
Speaker 1 (01:18):
Brian, how much more is on the home plate on
fire with everything that you just said.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
Yeah, he's got a busy plate.
Speaker 3 (01:25):
I mean he's he does all picture disengagements, he does
all batter timeouts. He has to keep track of the
batter timeouts. A couple of times we've had a situation
where a batter took a time out and then he
wants another one, and so you have to remember, no,
you already took one. So sometimes you know, you know
there's fifty sixty batters a game, it gets a little
confusing and say, like, you know, did you already have
(01:46):
a timeout? As you do one? And so he's busy.
It's a condensed period of time and he's got a
lot to do, and then he's got to call balls
and strikes and get everyone right.
Speaker 1 (01:56):
Yeah right, And they usually do despite what hitters think
and pictures think.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
Hopefully.
Speaker 3 (02:00):
Yes, the scores are pretty much the same everybody's scoring
like in the mid mid the high nineties. With adjustments
that they do for the evaluations, the box that everybody
sees on the screen, it's not accurate as what they
get evaluated at. So a lot of people go by
that box, but that box is just a static box
(02:20):
from the center field camera. It doesn't take into account
of batter's height. So the low part of the strike
zone and the high part of the strike showe which
is a lot where the controversy comes in, is not accurate.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
So they're getting hit pretty good on social media.
Speaker 1 (02:35):
I understand, yes, exactly. I'm glad you brought that up
because I had heard that the broadcast that we see
in that box that we see, that's not the actual
strike zone. And on game day, how accurate is that
compared to what we see on TV.
Speaker 2 (02:47):
It's not.
Speaker 3 (02:48):
They do their own adjustments for Major League Baseball, gets
evaluated their umpires on their own adjustments, and then they
have post game adjustments where they take into account the
catcher where like you might get adjusted if the pitch
gets by the catcher goes back to the screen, but
it might nick the box. They'll get adjusted for that pitch.
(03:09):
So it's a lot different than what people see on
the screen. I almost kind of wish that it wasn't
on there because it's just frustrating.
Speaker 1 (03:16):
Former Major League umpire Brian Gorman is our guest. He
is now part of Major League Baseball umpire operations and.
Speaker 2 (03:23):
Also a TV star.
Speaker 1 (03:25):
He's the guy that they go to on Apple TV
in the zoom room when there is some questions about
the rules, like last Friday night where Michael Conforto tagged
up with a juggle in the outfield at City Field
since the Mets.
Speaker 2 (03:38):
Are in town.
Speaker 1 (03:39):
Brian, what do you remember about that play and did
you know that it should have been allowed right away?
Speaker 2 (03:46):
Why did it take so long?
Speaker 3 (03:47):
Well, the two unusual plays in one game. It's usually,
you know, three or four games go by and they
don't even have to come to me.
Speaker 2 (03:54):
They had two plays in one game.
Speaker 3 (03:56):
The first one was the juggle out in the outfield
where the ball touches the suentelder, it gets deflected and
in fact, I think the right fielder will und up
catching the ball most of the time that ball has dropped,
so this play never happens. But if anybody's tagging, he
can go on first touch, and the theory behind that
is like a good outfielder can juggle the ball all
the way into the infield and prevent the guy from advancing,
(04:18):
so as soon as the ball is touched, the runners
can take off. Apparently some guys know it, because the
guys took off on first touch. In fact, there was
a play at second where he could have probably tagged
Gotani and he didn't, so you know, he just advanced
on the tag, so he was safe at second and
then they went to review. So when they go to
the review, they call it a matrix shot. They have
(04:38):
one camera faced on the outfielder, they have another camera
faced on the guy tagging up, and they sink it
with the timestamp so they make sure the guy actually
did tag up in time. Then there was another tag
up at first, so they do both tags at the
same time, and I think that's what took some time.
So they're you know, there's fourteen feeds home and away
and they have to go through every feed in case
(05:00):
there's a feed that.
Speaker 2 (05:01):
Shows something different. So that's what takes time. In New York.
Speaker 1 (05:04):
Brian Gorman is our guest. All right, that other play
on Friday Night where obstruction was called twice. One time
we all noticed it because Tascar Hernandez made a great
throw to throw out the runner at home Starling Marte.
The other time the Dodgers Tascar Hernandez scored safely. Can
you take us through that obstruction play? Because what is
(05:24):
the distance? The third baseman is a little bit too
close for comfort.
Speaker 2 (05:28):
Sure, there's two types of obstruction.
Speaker 3 (05:30):
One is a play being made on the obstructed runner,
and one is a play not being made on it.
And it's got two different benefits. The play that's not
being made on it, the umpire lets the play go
through and waits.
Speaker 2 (05:43):
To see what happens.
Speaker 3 (05:44):
That if the obstructed runner gets thrown out on a
close play, which actually happened, then he enforces the obstruction.
If he scores easily, or if he gets out or
thrown out by forty feet, they don't enforce the obstruction.
So a lot of people don't know the obstructions even
called until the play happens.
Speaker 2 (05:58):
After which they got obstructed.
Speaker 3 (06:01):
The play at third that you're talking about, he actually
strolled in front of the batter tagging up and prevented
him from getting a clearer view of the guy catching it.
That's called obstruction. You don't have to touch him, and
it doesn't have to be intentional. I don't know if
he did an intentional Max says he did, so you know,
I believe him. If he gets in front of him,
but he obstructs the vision of the field of tagging up,
(06:23):
that's called obstruction. And if he gets thrown out in
a close play, which happened, it's reversed to a safe
On the other case, he did walk in front of him,
but the umpire thought that he didn't obstruct his view.
So you can get closed and not obstruct them, or
you can get far away and obstruct them.
Speaker 2 (06:38):
So it's it's a judgment called by the umpire.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
Is that something that whoever's uppying third base may have
that rule at the forefront of their mind that night
and maybe focusing on it, because I've heard a lot
of third basement obstruct but it's never called right.
Speaker 3 (06:53):
The funny thing about it is that the umpires also
watching for the tag up. He's lining it up, and
he has the same vision as the guy tagging, so
if he's getting in a way of him, he's probably
getting away of the umpire as well. So it almost
brings it to your attention because you're trying to light
up the tag up with the catch as well. So
Max kind of gotten away of both of them. And
(07:14):
that's when Trip Gibson was the third base umpire.
Speaker 2 (07:16):
He called it right away.
Speaker 1 (07:18):
We all know Trip Gibson's name in Los Angeles now,
Brian Gorman.
Speaker 2 (07:22):
He's a hell of an upfire. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:24):
Hey, before I let you go so many years umpiring
major League baseball, when you come back to Dodgers Stadium
and you're here on quite an often basis, what do
you remember the most? Were there any like interactions with
Tommy Lasorda or anybody else on the Dodgers that stick
out to you?
Speaker 2 (07:39):
Sure? He was one of my first ejections. Yeah. Yeah,
I think it was my first year. I don't even
know if I had a job yet.
Speaker 3 (07:45):
I was going up and down from Triple A and
I called a couple of pitches he didn't like.
Speaker 2 (07:49):
He started yelling from the dugout.
Speaker 3 (07:51):
He got ejected, and then the paper the next day
he said I liked his dad. I'm not so sure
about the side, but I worked my last game here
and stadium.
Speaker 2 (08:00):
It was fun. It was.
Speaker 3 (08:02):
My My family was all here and walked off the
field and the first person shuck my hand was Mookie
Betts and Dave Roberts came out and he shook my hand.
They had it on the scoreboard before the game that
I was retiring. It was kind of surprising, but I've
got a lot of good feelings here in Dodgers Dodger Stadium.
Speaker 1 (08:19):
Squarers always say they missed the camaraderie with their teammates
and just being around the guys.
Speaker 2 (08:24):
What do umpires miss?
Speaker 3 (08:25):
The most same thing, same thing we You know, we
travel as a group before from from April to October,
and there's a lot of card games. You know that
we travel together. We go out together, so you know,
you form a little bond and like a family bond.
Sometimes if a guy gets hurt, they'll bring another guy in.
But everything we do is juicually together. You know, if
(08:46):
somebody has an off day and they go home and stuff,
but you get to know the guys and their families,
and after you retire, you kind of missed that part.
It's it is the camaraderie, that same thing I imagined
with the players.
Speaker 1 (08:56):
Thanks for sharing with all of us, Brian Gorman. We
don't get to tap into the knowledge of an umpire
that has the experience that you have and continue to
do a great job. And you are Baseball's Mike Pereira.
Speaker 2 (09:09):
I just means I'm old. I think you there.
Speaker 1 (09:12):
He is one of the best umpires in his day.
Brian Gorman now helping Major League Baseball keep everybody in line.
And now an exclusive interview with David Bassey for Dodger Talking.
The Dodgers and Mets are getting set for Game two
of this four game series, and we're joined right now
by a man that was a Major League umpire for
thirty years and now he's that Mike Pereira for Major
League Baseball on Friday Night broadcast. And that's the one
(00:21):
and only great Irishmen, Brian Gorman. Brian, thanks a lot
for the time.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Thanks appreciate you having me on.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
This is a lot clearer than zoom a little bit,
a little bit. Yeah, you need the technology, right, Hey,
when you look at the game now and how it's
changed and just how umpires are being graded, do you
feel for your fellow brethren on just how much they
have to juggle these days?
Speaker 2 (00:43):
Yeah, we talk about it a lot.
Speaker 3 (00:44):
Since since a pitch clock came into existence, everything's getting condensed.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
They called the same amount of pitches, they call the
same amount of plays.
Speaker 3 (00:52):
Everything's just done in a short amount of time. So
the biggest difference from like when I work and from
the times that you do now is that they don't
have a break. Used to like between pitches, used to
be able to take a breath and take a break
and kind of reset.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
Now they can't do that.
Speaker 3 (01:07):
They're watching picture disengagements and the clock's taken down, and.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
So they're always working.
Speaker 3 (01:13):
So it's intense two and a half hours as opposed
to a little bit more relaxed three hours.
Speaker 1 (01:18):
Brian, how much more is on the home plate on
fire with everything that you just said.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
Yeah, he's got a busy plate.
Speaker 3 (01:25):
I mean he's he does all picture disengagements, he does
all batter timeouts. He has to keep track of the
batter timeouts. A couple of times we've had a situation
where a batter took a time out and then he
wants another one, and so you have to remember, no,
you already took one. So sometimes you know, you know
there's fifty sixty batters a game, it gets a little
confusing and say, like, you know, did you already have
(01:46):
a timeout? As you do one? And so he's busy.
It's a condensed period of time and he's got a
lot to do, and then he's got to call balls
and strikes and get everyone right.
Speaker 1 (01:56):
Yeah right, And they usually do despite what hitters think
and pictures think.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
Hopefully.
Speaker 3 (02:00):
Yes, the scores are pretty much the same everybody's scoring
like in the mid mid the high nineties. With adjustments
that they do for the evaluations, the box that everybody
sees on the screen, it's not accurate as what they
get evaluated at. So a lot of people go by
that box, but that box is just a static box
(02:20):
from the center field camera. It doesn't take into account
of batter's height. So the low part of the strike
zone and the high part of the strike showe which
is a lot where the controversy comes in, is not accurate.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
So they're getting hit pretty good on social media.
Speaker 1 (02:35):
I understand, yes, exactly. I'm glad you brought that up
because I had heard that the broadcast that we see
in that box that we see, that's not the actual
strike zone. And on game day, how accurate is that
compared to what we see on TV.
Speaker 2 (02:47):
It's not.
Speaker 3 (02:48):
They do their own adjustments for Major League Baseball, gets
evaluated their umpires on their own adjustments, and then they
have post game adjustments where they take into account the
catcher where like you might get adjusted if the pitch
gets by the catcher goes back to the screen, but
it might nick the box. They'll get adjusted for that pitch.
(03:09):
So it's a lot different than what people see on
the screen. I almost kind of wish that it wasn't
on there because it's just frustrating.
Speaker 1 (03:16):
Former Major League umpire Brian Gorman is our guest. He
is now part of Major League Baseball umpire operations and.
Speaker 2 (03:23):
Also a TV star.
Speaker 1 (03:25):
He's the guy that they go to on Apple TV
in the zoom room when there is some questions about
the rules, like last Friday night where Michael Conforto tagged
up with a juggle in the outfield at City Field
since the Mets.
Speaker 2 (03:38):
Are in town.
Speaker 1 (03:39):
Brian, what do you remember about that play and did
you know that it should have been allowed right away?
Speaker 2 (03:46):
Why did it take so long?
Speaker 3 (03:47):
Well, the two unusual plays in one game. It's usually,
you know, three or four games go by and they
don't even have to come to me.
Speaker 2 (03:54):
They had two plays in one game.
Speaker 3 (03:56):
The first one was the juggle out in the outfield
where the ball touches the suentelder, it gets deflected and
in fact, I think the right fielder will und up
catching the ball most of the time that ball has dropped,
so this play never happens. But if anybody's tagging, he
can go on first touch, and the theory behind that
is like a good outfielder can juggle the ball all
the way into the infield and prevent the guy from advancing,
(04:18):
so as soon as the ball is touched, the runners
can take off. Apparently some guys know it, because the
guys took off on first touch. In fact, there was
a play at second where he could have probably tagged
Gotani and he didn't, so you know, he just advanced
on the tag, so he was safe at second and
then they went to review. So when they go to
the review, they call it a matrix shot. They have
(04:38):
one camera faced on the outfielder, they have another camera
faced on the guy tagging up, and they sink it
with the timestamp so they make sure the guy actually
did tag up in time. Then there was another tag
up at first, so they do both tags at the
same time, and I think that's what took some time.
So they're you know, there's fourteen feeds home and away
and they have to go through every feed in case
(05:00):
there's a feed that.
Speaker 2 (05:01):
Shows something different. So that's what takes time. In New York.
Speaker 1 (05:04):
Brian Gorman is our guest. All right, that other play
on Friday Night where obstruction was called twice. One time
we all noticed it because Tascar Hernandez made a great
throw to throw out the runner at home Starling Marte.
The other time the Dodgers Tascar Hernandez scored safely. Can
you take us through that obstruction play? Because what is
(05:24):
the distance? The third baseman is a little bit too
close for comfort.
Speaker 2 (05:28):
Sure, there's two types of obstruction.
Speaker 3 (05:30):
One is a play being made on the obstructed runner,
and one is a play not being made on it.
And it's got two different benefits. The play that's not
being made on it, the umpire lets the play go
through and waits.
Speaker 2 (05:43):
To see what happens.
Speaker 3 (05:44):
That if the obstructed runner gets thrown out on a
close play, which actually happened, then he enforces the obstruction.
If he scores easily, or if he gets out or
thrown out by forty feet, they don't enforce the obstruction.
So a lot of people don't know the obstructions even
called until the play happens.
Speaker 2 (05:58):
After which they got obstructed.
Speaker 3 (06:01):
The play at third that you're talking about, he actually
strolled in front of the batter tagging up and prevented
him from getting a clearer view of the guy catching it.
That's called obstruction. You don't have to touch him, and
it doesn't have to be intentional. I don't know if
he did an intentional Max says he did, so you know,
I believe him. If he gets in front of him,
but he obstructs the vision of the field of tagging up,
(06:23):
that's called obstruction. And if he gets thrown out in
a close play, which happened, it's reversed to a safe
On the other case, he did walk in front of him,
but the umpire thought that he didn't obstruct his view.
So you can get closed and not obstruct them, or
you can get far away and obstruct them.
Speaker 2 (06:38):
So it's it's a judgment called by the umpire.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
Is that something that whoever's uppying third base may have
that rule at the forefront of their mind that night
and maybe focusing on it, because I've heard a lot
of third basement obstruct but it's never called right.
Speaker 3 (06:53):
The funny thing about it is that the umpires also
watching for the tag up. He's lining it up, and
he has the same vision as the guy tagging, so
if he's getting in a way of him, he's probably
getting away of the umpire as well. So it almost
brings it to your attention because you're trying to light
up the tag up with the catch as well. So
Max kind of gotten away of both of them. And
(07:14):
that's when Trip Gibson was the third base umpire.
Speaker 2 (07:16):
He called it right away.
Speaker 1 (07:18):
We all know Trip Gibson's name in Los Angeles now,
Brian Gorman.
Speaker 2 (07:22):
He's a hell of an upfire. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:24):
Hey, before I let you go so many years umpiring
major League baseball, when you come back to Dodgers Stadium
and you're here on quite an often basis, what do
you remember the most? Were there any like interactions with
Tommy Lasorda or anybody else on the Dodgers that stick
out to you?
Speaker 2 (07:39):
Sure? He was one of my first ejections. Yeah. Yeah,
I think it was my first year. I don't even
know if I had a job yet.
Speaker 3 (07:45):
I was going up and down from Triple A and
I called a couple of pitches he didn't like.
Speaker 2 (07:49):
He started yelling from the dugout.
Speaker 3 (07:51):
He got ejected, and then the paper the next day
he said I liked his dad. I'm not so sure
about the side, but I worked my last game here
and stadium.
Speaker 2 (08:00):
It was fun. It was.
Speaker 3 (08:02):
My My family was all here and walked off the
field and the first person shuck my hand was Mookie
Betts and Dave Roberts came out and he shook my hand.
They had it on the scoreboard before the game that
I was retiring. It was kind of surprising, but I've
got a lot of good feelings here in Dodgers Dodger Stadium.
Speaker 1 (08:19):
Squarers always say they missed the camaraderie with their teammates
and just being around the guys.
Speaker 2 (08:24):
What do umpires miss?
Speaker 3 (08:25):
The most same thing, same thing we You know, we
travel as a group before from from April to October,
and there's a lot of card games. You know that
we travel together. We go out together, so you know,
you form a little bond and like a family bond.
Sometimes if a guy gets hurt, they'll bring another guy in.
But everything we do is juicually together. You know, if
(08:46):
somebody has an off day and they go home and stuff,
but you get to know the guys and their families,
and after you retire, you kind of missed that part.
It's it is the camaraderie, that same thing I imagined
with the players.
Speaker 1 (08:56):
Thanks for sharing with all of us, Brian Gorman. We
don't get to tap into the knowledge of an umpire
that has the experience that you have and continue to
do a great job. And you are Baseball's Mike Pereira.
Speaker 2 (09:09):
I just means I'm old. I think you there.
Speaker 1 (09:12):
He is one of the best umpires in his day.
Brian Gorman now helping Major League Baseball keep everybody in line.
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