April 29, 2025 • 33 mins
Andy McCullough from The Athletic hops on to talk about his article on competitive balance issues in MLB. How big is tonights Game 5 between the Clipps and Nuggets?
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Oh yes, we keep it moving on AM five seventy
Rodney Pete Adam Austlin. This hour got some big news.
Our man Andy McCullough is going to join us in
one second. But we'll get into uh some some some
Dodger baseball, also some more NBA playoffs and what's gonna
happen Clippers Game five? Can they take a commanding lead
(00:25):
and and win this series and go forward? And can
the Lakers hold on? But before we get to all
of that, let's bring on our man. He is the
senior baseball writer for The Athletic used to cover the
Dodgers as well. Our man, Andy McCullough. Andy, thanks for
joining us.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
Hey, how you guys doing.
Speaker 1 (00:42):
We are good? We are good man. All right, listen,
you stir in the pot, man, You stir in the pot.
And I guess it had had to happen because of
the schedule. But the big bad Dodgers with the four
hundred and seventy six million dollar payroll in the mighty
Marlins with the sixty nine.
Speaker 3 (01:00):
Million dollar payroll, play to other.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
Man. When someone looks at that and reads your article,
and the I mean, the reaction is, oh my god,
there's such a big difference, and what is baseball going
to do?
Speaker 3 (01:17):
Yeah, you wrote this and talked about this.
Speaker 1 (01:18):
How did it go? I mean, I mean just your
thoughts on putting this together.
Speaker 2 (01:23):
Sure, I mean, yeah, it's it's really just kind of
a quirk of the schedule and like kind of how
the rankings of payroll, Like because we could have written
this about you know, Dodgers playing the Pirates over the weekend,
or like the Dodgers sharing a spring training complex with
the White Sox, or when they play the A's, you know,
all that sort of stuff. I mean, there's a huge
gap between the Dodgers in terms of their spending and
(01:45):
those at the bottom, and so it was really just
kind of using this series between these two teams where
there's like a four hundred million dollar payroll gap to
kind of you know, look at the clubs themselves, but
also kind of the state of the sport, like how
it got to be at this stage and kind of
where it's going, and like, you know, there's there's a
belief that there's going to be a lockout again after
(02:05):
the CBA expires after the twenty twenty sixth season. You know,
they're the sort of length and pain of that lockout
may be determined by how willing the owners are to
push for a salary cap. And you know, the disparity
like this is why you're seeing more and more owners
and you know, Commissioner Rob Manford has been relatively vocal
(02:25):
about this about how they you know, would like to
consider in putting in a cap. But then again, that's
their you know, long standing desire for baseball.
Speaker 4 (02:33):
And you know, I got a hold of my sock
and my shoe currently and I'm not kidding, so I
don't have much sympathy for billionaires who won't spend money.
But is this something where that's the real issue the
guys that won't spend and could that salary floor be
more realistic in the future.
Speaker 2 (02:51):
Well, so, the thing with a salary floor, right is
the owners will say, okay, you want a floor, put
in a ceiling, you know, and like it's a it's
a labor negotiation. So it's not like the owners are
going to agree to put in any sort of you know,
mandatory minimum spend without putting a cap. And that is
(03:11):
the sort of thing that you know, the players understandably
want it. They would like there to be a floor
they would like, you know, there's been discussion of like
something called like a you know, like a poverty tax
or whatever, where if you are under a certain number,
you have to pay a tax in the same way
that the CBT you know, works as an an upper tier.
But like there's just no way for if I mean,
(03:32):
just thinking about it, logically, there's very little way for
the union to get a floor put in without putting
a cap on it. The owners are just not going
to go for that, and the players understandably do not
want a cap.
Speaker 1 (03:45):
So andy that being said, what happens after twenty twenty six,
I mean the collective Bargaining Agreement expires. You said it's
likely going to be a lockout if it continues this way.
Are can it continue this way? Because we've, as Adam said,
you got owners crying broke. You got the you know,
(04:07):
several owners saying we're just trying to break even, and
then you got the Dodgers saying, we're giving back to
our fans and we're rewarding them for supporting us, and
so it's our job to do this.
Speaker 3 (04:18):
How do they come to some.
Speaker 1 (04:20):
Sort of agreement with this where you've got teams like
the Dodgers and the Mets and Steve Cohen, we're willing
to pay to kind of put a winner on the
field every single year.
Speaker 2 (04:30):
Yeah, And I think that's why if you talk to
people around the game, there's you know, growing concern about
the possibility of a of a lengthy labor stoppage because
it's kind of hard to see how this can be
sort of easily reconciled. You know, it's just if there's
a lockout, like, are they willing to miss games in
order to try and hammer out you know, some sort
(04:53):
of agreement that like makes it easier for the owners
who aren't Steve Cohen or the Guggenheim group, you know,
to sort of continue to be in the system. I
think that, Yeah, it's just it's it really is setting
up for kind of a pretty gnarly labor standoff after
twenty twenty six. You know that they could get ugly.
(05:14):
But you know, look, there's also a lot of reason
to not in miss games to keep the season going.
You know, I think that the the economics of the
sport are still pretty strong. But if you talk to
you know, folks who are with smaller market teams, they
will point to the collapse of the RSN model. There's
been in some ways, like a decoupling between winning and
actually making money. And they look at teams like the
(05:37):
Dodgers and the Yankees and the Mets are like, these
guys have access to players that you know, we just
don't have access to on the free agent market. And
then you talk to you know, like the Dodgers. When
was the last time the Dodgers are to pick in
the first round? Right, like when it was like it
was literally, excuse not the first round, but in the
in the top ten of the first round. It was
literally Clayton Kershaw back in two thousand and six. They
(05:58):
have not had a pick in the top ten and
since then, and so, you know, the idea of them
getting access to a player like Paul Skins right now,
right that's impossible. So they're behaving like rationally based on
you know, what their market size is. But so part
of the problem is that everyone's behaving rationally. It's just
the system is set up in a way that it
makes it a lot easier to be the Dodgers than
(06:20):
it is to be a team at the bottom of
the pile.
Speaker 4 (06:22):
And ye I said earlier, and you can be straight
with me if this is overly simplistic. But I kind
of scoffed at competitive balance. The level playing field is
the fact that every owner is a billionaire and they
all can afford to spend money and put out a
better product if they want to reinvest.
Speaker 3 (06:38):
Is that true?
Speaker 4 (06:39):
Do you see it as? Okay, there are levels to this.
There are richer rich guys, there's Screws McDuck out there,
and there's still levels to billionaires.
Speaker 2 (06:48):
Yeah, I mean I think that they're like Steve Cohen,
for example, is worse. I believe the latest number is
like twenty one billion. So the Mets lose money, right,
and he's okay with that. They can lose one hundred
two hundred million dollars and it's a rounding error for him. Right,
there's a thousand millions in a billion, and he's got
(07:09):
twenty of them right now. If you compare that to
owners who have like one billion, which like, again, that
would be nice. I would like to get to that
point someday. It's probably not going to happen, but there's
just it's a different level of wealth. At the same time,
I think that when you talk to folks on the
like sort of labor side they like, for example, the
Marlins are saying like, we're not spending on free agent
(07:31):
acquisitions for the big league roster. We are redirecting our
money towards infrastructure and research and the weight room and
you know, expanding our complex and you know, getting the
new place in the dr and this, that and the
other thing, which is all perfectly reasonable and makes sense.
What the people on the labor side are saying is like,
you can do that and also compete for some free agents.
You don't have to completely sit out the free agent market.
(07:54):
And I think that is what fans for a lot
of these teams, like the Pirates, you know, the A's,
the you know, the White Sox, whatever, they would like
to see them invest in the infrastructure and also make
more of an effort on the open market.
Speaker 1 (08:06):
Yeah, I mean that's what the My question is, what
do you say to the fan base, because you go around.
Speaker 3 (08:10):
The league and you see teams.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
That are struggling already, and the fans are are yelling
sell the team, sell the team, right, because nobody cares,
Like if you're a one billion dollar guy versus like
you said, Cohen, twenty one billion.
Speaker 3 (08:24):
Sure fans look at it as you're a billionaire.
Speaker 1 (08:27):
They don't care and totally I'm getting money on the
team and I don't care that your blah blah blah.
You can write that off. I mean, what do you
say or what do they say to the fan base.
It's like, we're showing up. We want a winner, just
like the Dodgers put a winner on the field every
year or the Yankees.
Speaker 3 (08:45):
Do we want the same thing.
Speaker 2 (08:48):
Yeah, I mean I think that that is a that's
a like it's crazy how many teams fit into the bucket.
I think the majority of fans of the sport are
in that situation where you're described, I mean where they're like,
I wish the billionaire who own my team would spend more.
The way that the you know, the folks who run
these teams are saying is like, well, look, we're not
(09:09):
going to run a business to lose money, for example,
which like then you get into sort of the argument
of like whether owning a baseball team is a business
or it's a civic duty or it's you know whatever,
if it's something more than just like dollars and cents,
which I think we would all hope, uh, you know,
to believe that that's how they're run. But we also
all understand that you don't get to be a billionaire
by you know, sort of not paying attention to the
(09:31):
bottom line.
Speaker 3 (09:32):
Right.
Speaker 2 (09:32):
So all of this is to say, like, I think
fans are really exasperated, sort of frustrated with you know,
how the system works. They're frustrated that their owners are
you know, not being more aggressive on the open market.
They're even the frustrated they're seeing you know, homegrown players
get traded away and you know, end up on some
(09:53):
of these you know, bigger market teams and in some ways, right, like,
you can yell to sell the team at the owner,
but that's not really going to be effective. And part
of why I think more and more fans are staying like, well,
maybe a cap wouldn't be so bad is they know
that just yelling at the owner is not going to
change things, and so they think, well, maybe if we're
putting a cap, you know, it'll be more fair. I
(10:13):
don't know if that's necessarily the best way to make
baseball a better sport, but you can understand how some
fans in smaller markets are starting to think that way.
And you can also understand how folks on the management
side who have had the long standing goal of putting
in a cap are very happy to see the sentiment
being expressed more and more.
Speaker 4 (10:32):
Andy, is it reasonable to expect there to be a
Billy Bean, small ball, little engine that could team in
this era, or of all the equations to gain an
edge been solved at this point and that advantage of
the analytics goes out the window because every big market
has it too. Can anyone have sustained success while operating
(10:54):
on the margins?
Speaker 2 (10:56):
I think the you know, the Rays probably had the
the most recent really extended run. They've obviously taken a
step back in the last couple of years, you know,
before the A's decided to tear down right before they
you know, the sort of Vegas thing, you know, the
machination for that got more gnarly. Like the the A's
were pretty competitive. The Brewers obviously have been you know,
(11:19):
been in the playoffs like five or six years in
a row. Like you can, yeah, you can certainly do
sustained success. I think though that it's just like it's
not like a situation where you are like the Dodgers,
where you have you know, three m vps at the
top of the lineup, and you can go out on
the market and get you know, the top the top starter,
(11:39):
the top closer, the second best closer, you know, blah blah,
all the sort of things they're able to do. You know,
you're constantly churning through the roster. Your fans maybe don't
make as many meaningful connections with players because you know
they might be here and gone. But it's certainly possible
to compete. But I guess to you know when you're
when I'm talking to the Tomorrowlin's folks, and you know,
a lot of these guys have Dodgers ties, right, you know,
(12:01):
like Gave Kapler ran the Dodgers farm system. He's now
doing that for the Marlins. You know, Clayton McCullough was
obviously a co you know, a coach with the Dodgers
and also worked in their minor league system. You know,
Peter Bendix was hired by Andrew Friedman with Tampa Bay. Right,
and these guys are doing some interesting things, you know,
creative things that like might end up working and they
might get rid of them. But also they know the
Dodgers are doing creative things, right, Like the Marlins are
(12:22):
spending on a weight room. The Dodgers have a weight room,
you know, like they have all of the things that
these small market teams are trying to do. They also
have the ability to go out and sign show Hey Otani,
to sign Yo Chernobo Yamamoto, et cetera, et cetera. And
so yeah, that makes it just a lot tougher to
really have sustained success as a small revenue team.
Speaker 1 (12:43):
Anny McCulloch joins a senior baseball writer for The Athletic Andy.
You know a lot to talk about competitive balance, right,
there's a competitive balance tax, and there's one a week
balance in baseball.
Speaker 3 (12:54):
You know, we talked about this earlier.
Speaker 1 (12:56):
There really hasn't there hasn't been a repeat center of
the World Series the Yankees did in the late nineties,
and and you've seen teams you mentioned Tampa Bay a
few years back they played the Dodgers in the World Series.
I mean it, you can you can do it. Is
it that big of discrepancy? And you mentioned you rolled
(13:18):
off a few teams like the Brewers, some other teams
that make the playoffs. Teams can compete even with the
Dodgers and the Mets and the Yankees and the Phillies
maybe spending the money that they're spending, you still have
the ability to compete because there's so many players out.
Speaker 2 (13:34):
There for sure, And like, look, the playoffs are a crapshoot,
you know. And like this Dodgers team, I think they're
going to be really good. They're probably gonna win more
games than anyone. They're probably going to be the number
one overall seed going into October. And would anyone be
surprised as they got knocked out in the first round. No,
Like we've seen it happen, right, We understand that baseball
is pretty stickle, and so yeah, the champion does rotate,
(13:57):
you know, from year to year. But at the same time,
like the World Series winner five of the last six
years has been in a top ten payroll. There hasn't
been a team in the bottom third win the World
Series since the two thousand and three Florida Monolings. There's
a pretty clear connection between spending and winning. It's possible
to not spend a great amount and be successful. It's
(14:20):
a lot easier if you do all the things that
those teams do and you also spend some money. And
that is like how you feel about what you think
is the sort of solution based on you know, those
set of facts differs on where you stand on the
labor management divide. Labor looks at it as like, well,
more teams should be spending. Management looks at it as like, hey,
they should probably curb the spending to make it more fair.
(14:43):
And that's kind of the crux of like what the
you know, the negotiations are going to be over when
the CBA expires after next.
Speaker 4 (14:50):
Season, Andy are is part of the issue or something
that's going to be brought up the deferred money that's
going on deferred payments with the Dodgers, because you talk
about this four hundred and six million dollar difference in
payroll that doesn't include a lot of money. Still, is
that going to be something on the table in the
collective already agreement?
Speaker 2 (15:09):
I don't think so because I'm not totally sure who's
really against the deferred money right, like owners are fine
with it and if players are taking it like it's
not a big deal. I think, you know, the Dodgers
have obviously been doing a lot of that lately, but
they're not the first club to do that, and it's
I think that's going to become more commonplaces. Teams are
looking to try and move money around and deal with
kind of the CBT and all that sort of stuff.
(15:30):
So I don't I have not in sort of doing
reporting around this, And just during the course of the
year heard many people complaining about the deferrals. I think
that was just a thing that non Dodgers sands were
whining about during the offseason because it seemed unfair.
Speaker 3 (15:46):
It's not them.
Speaker 1 (15:49):
Andy, we do We're We're in LA, We're on you know,
We're yeah, are so to the Dodgers. Obviously it was
a Dodger station. But what do you make of the
Dodgers and what they've been able to do since the
Guggenheim guys took over. They brought in Andrew Friedman stand
cast and took over. I was I went to Japan
to see the Tokyo series and just the globalization of
(16:12):
the Dodgers, and obviously Show he is a huge part
of that, along with Yamamoto and Saki. But it's really
all about show.
Speaker 3 (16:19):
Hey.
Speaker 1 (16:20):
But to see the Dodgers in Major League Baseball all
over Japan, it was it was really impressive and incredible.
What do you make of just the strategy that the
Dodgers have put in place. I know other teams are
envious because they got showy and they're global, but it
is it blew me, It blew me away. How they
(16:41):
have to me taken over in terms of branding, maybe
the biggest brand in sports.
Speaker 2 (16:48):
Yeah, I think they deserve a good amount of credit.
And I think some other teams could have done this too,
you know, if they had been fortunate enough to land Otani.
But the Dodgers really underderstood that if they were able
to sign Otani, they could unlock revenue streams that no
other club would have access to, and they could really
sort of turn this into like a perpetual motion machine
(17:11):
of money flowing through the front office and so not
the front office, ecuse me, just through like the club.
And they understood through partnerships and sponsorships and all these
deals and tours and blah blah blah blah blah, they
could have so much money available to them. And they
did a really really good job of, you know, sort
of pouncing on that as soon as they got Otani
(17:34):
and have continued to try and level up that sort
of connection with Japan and you know, and like sort
of getting into that revenue stream and sort of allowing
this thing to kind of finance itself. I mean that's
the big part of you know, the sort of disparity
between the Dodgers really everyone else is like they're the
big market team making money, and it's because they have
(17:56):
so much more money coming into their coffers because of
Otani and so like. Yeah, I mean obviously, you know,
the Krugenaym Group has done an excellent job, you know,
since they have come on board Andrew Freeman inherited you know,
a pretty good club, you know, built by Ned Colletti
and Logan White, and you know, has turned it into
a juggernaut. Yeah, they're like the model franchise for obvious reasons.
Speaker 3 (18:19):
I would say, Yeah, well, Annie, I appreciate it, man.
It was a great article.
Speaker 1 (18:24):
You do, great stuff, man, Thanks for coming on and
joining us and enlightening us on on this competitive balance
in the gap. And we'll continue to talk and see
what happens after next year, man, and hopefully there's not
a work stoppage.
Speaker 3 (18:39):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:39):
I mean, I don't know, I could always like go
to law school or something, or I don't know, you know,
I'm a young man still hopefully.
Speaker 1 (18:47):
Yeah you again, man, Thanks thanks for joining us, Man,
I really appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (18:51):
Yeah, no problem, thanks for having us.
Speaker 3 (18:52):
Just fun. There we go.
Speaker 1 (18:55):
Many thanks to Any McCullough. He is he has dialed
in Adam on on everything baseball, and and and and
all the things that he does. So it's it's pretty impressive.
But it'll be interesting to see what happens over the
next couple of years, or at least through next year,
because there will be the whiners that complain about the
Dodgers doing things and all those kind of type of situations.
(19:17):
But we will see in the meantime, this Dodgers keep
winning and keep winning World Series. Adam Austin, Rodney Pete,
Am five seventy l A Sports.
Speaker 3 (19:26):
Oh yes.
Speaker 1 (19:30):
On a beautiful Tuesday, sunny southern California. Rodney Pete, Adam Auslin,
many thanks to Annie McCullough. Yeah, and it's there will
always be people whining. But but the money, you think
the money thing, and he talked about the discrepancy of
(19:50):
four hundred and six I think four hundred and six
or four hundred and nine million dollars between the Dodgers
and and UH and the Marlins Eventually something's going to
have to happen. I don't know what, but something's going
to have to happen in terms of a cap or
a floor or something, because I don't want and he
(20:11):
mentioned this, but nobody wants to see a work stoppage.
No one wants to see a labor dispute, which this
collective bargaining agreement ends at the end of the twenty
twenty six season, and the way it's going to have
and have nots the money that's being thrown out there,
does something have to change or does something have to
be regulated in order for it to survive and go forward.
Speaker 4 (20:35):
I think the first paragraph of Andy's piece on this,
which was wonderfully written, kind of outlines how the gap
is getting wider here because he takes it back to
two thousand and two, where there was an eighty five
million dollar difference between the highest payroll and the lowest payroll,
and now we're getting to a four hundred million dollar difference.
(20:57):
That's where things start to get scary, I think for
Major League Baseball and why they're going to put more
importance into this CBA. This is going to be a
big one. I think. So if people are digging their
heels in. Yeah, there could be a stoppage because I
think it's too important for them not to figure this
out now before it gets two out of hand.
Speaker 3 (21:19):
Yeah, I'm just wondering.
Speaker 1 (21:22):
Because you never know when when when billionaires cry broke
or we're not making any money, or we're losing money,
and yeah, I think people become skeptical, especially with the
valuations of all the teams now in every sport, you
look up and go, you know, because I think he
mentioned the Mets or losing money, and Cohen doesn't matter.
It doesn't matter him because he's got twenty one billion dollars,
(21:42):
So losing one hundred two hundred million dollars a year,
it's a it's a line on them, it's a zero.
It's a lost leader for him. Not every owners like that,
But are we saying that every owner should be like that?
Speaker 4 (21:58):
I think to some degree. I think when you're looking
at bringing in ownership and how important that's going to
be and how long somebody is going to have try
to be good stewards of their franchise, you have to
see are their pocketbooks deep enough that they're willing to
go through some lean years to have sustainable winning eventually
(22:23):
to become a team that can piece year in a
year out. Those are the type of owners you're looking for,
those who care about nothing else but winning. They can't
view this as just an investment.
Speaker 3 (22:35):
And by the way, again, not anymore, not anymore, for sure.
Speaker 4 (22:39):
This whole thing where oh, we're guaranteed to make so
much money per year and if we're not, then well
we better rip up our contracts and have a strike
because we have to make sure we're getting a good
return on our investment. Doesn't it matter, like how you
actually are supporting it. Shouldn't that be part of it?
(23:00):
Like there's no guarantees that you're getting nine percent back
every year in the s and P five hundred or
anything like that.
Speaker 3 (23:06):
There isn't.
Speaker 4 (23:06):
They're down years, there's lean years.
Speaker 3 (23:08):
Can you assie less? You're unless you're in the.
Speaker 1 (23:12):
King of all sports, which is the NFL where they
all make money.
Speaker 3 (23:15):
They figured it out.
Speaker 1 (23:16):
They have figured it out. They've got, you know, their
collective bargain agreement. Everybody gets the share of all the
revenue and the TV money and all those things, the
gambling money. I think they're reported that every team, every
owner now is going to get about four hundred and
seventy million dollar check coming soon.
Speaker 3 (23:37):
It just and and with and they.
Speaker 1 (23:40):
Have a salary cap, which is I think the difference
obviously with with the NFL and the other sports is
they do have a salary cap and there is a
player share agreement of I believe it's like sixty something
percent that the players get and that has to go
to the players in terms of revenue. So you can't fudget,
you can't do anything with it. If you making it,
you got to give it back. You got to give
(24:02):
it to the players in terms of salary. So the
NFL has done it right, but some of these other leagues,
but they've been saying this about baseball for years, that
baseball's out of control with spending money and giving this.
I remember back when they were given twenty million dollar
contracts and people are going crazy about it.
Speaker 4 (24:20):
You remember the Kevin Brown Sports Illustrated. Oh he had
the first one hundred million dollar picture or fifty million
dollar picture? What was it then? It was it was insane.
Speaker 3 (24:27):
First whatever, but it was not even close to what
they're sniffing now.
Speaker 4 (24:31):
Yeah, hey, even with inflation. I think a lot of
this and obviously why Andy wrote it. The Dodgers. They're
at the forefront of everyone's mind because of the way
they're spending. But the truth is they're spending wisely. What
everyone's winding about is the Dodgers have the best of
both worlds. They brought in a guy with a small
(24:52):
market mindset that knew to win, how to win on
the margins, and Andrew Friedman, and they said, oh, by
the way, spend as much as you want, so if
you do make some mistakes here or there, we can compensate,
but still stick to your system. Stick to your plan.
We got the best farm system already waiting for you.
(25:14):
And now go out and build a team the way
you'd like to with the analytics, and we'll also be
able to support you. Yep, guests be choked up just
thinking about it.
Speaker 3 (25:29):
I hear you, brother, I hear you.
Speaker 1 (25:31):
All Right, Clippers and Denver, let's get into it. Get
into it, and and the Lakers come back from down
three to one. We'll talk about those two teams to
close this out. Rodney Pete, Adam Oslin and five seventy
LA Sports. Oh yes, Rodney Pete Adam Oslin on a Tuesday,
(25:53):
all right, Adam O Adam Oof Clippers Denver two too.
Speaker 3 (26:00):
Come on, now, break it down for me.
Speaker 4 (26:02):
Pivotal happen game five. You know what it is. You're
tied at to too. That Game five the winner goes
on to win eighty four percent of the time. Now
it's a best of three series at this point, and
the Denver Nuggets have home court advantage. So the thought
process for most of the Clippers Nation is, you gotta
win this ball game to have a chance to close
(26:25):
things out in game six. Add into it, Dome. You
don't want to end up going back to Denver for
a Game seven, And truthfully, you feel like you've left
some meat on the bone so far in this series.
The Clippers are up fifteen in Game one, it goes
to overtime, they lose.
Speaker 1 (26:43):
Then.
Speaker 4 (26:44):
While you can argue they shouldn't have came back anyways
in Game four and that was Denver's problem, they did
come back and they had it tied, and there's this
miraculous airball by Nikola jokicch that somehow gets pushed through
the hoop, the immaculate airball. And so you're at too
too and you feel like you could be up three
to one. But maybe Denver can make the same argument.
(27:05):
If Kawhi doesn't go off in game two, they win
that one. I think they need more from Kawhi tonight,
obviously than they got in Game four. He wasn't at
his best until very late in that ballgame, and the
Clippers made an interesting move. They leaned into offense. They
put bo don Bodanovitch out there. They didn't have Chris Dunn,
they didn't have DJ, they didn't have Niko Batoum. They
(27:26):
spread him out and they went on a huge run.
So I'm interested to see if Coach lou goes back
to it.
Speaker 1 (27:31):
I'd like him to go back to it because he
can score in bunches and I think, you know, he
got a little dog in him. Lookdonovitch got a little
dog in him, and I think when he starts to
feel it, the rest of the team feels it from
him too, you know, and they kick it to him.
But I you know, absolutely right, you know, in games
(27:53):
like this, pivotal games or close or game seven to whatever,
Kawhi's got to take over. Kawhi's got to be the
guy that just because he's still to me, he's still
the best player on the court.
Speaker 3 (28:07):
When he's healthy, he can do anything.
Speaker 1 (28:10):
He can do anything on the court, and this nobody
can stop him when he's right and he's healthy. And
I think he's got to impose his will. And sometimes
that means Adam, and sometimes that means you got to
be a little selfish. You gotta be a little selfish.
And he's got to be a little selfish tonight and
then going forward, especially if if when it goes back
(28:32):
to Denver to close this thing out, Uh, he's got
to be very selfishness.
Speaker 4 (28:39):
If he has a flaw in his game. I think
you're right. Sometimes he's too unselfish. Sometimes he's so focused
on making the right basketball play. It's like, oh, the
right basketball player is for you to take this midway
over two players, over the double team, because you're that
good and you're that unstoppable and you see through defenders
when you're in the zone, and that's where you're is
(29:00):
that in game two and remember after game one he
had seven turnovers. People are calling him out and he
came back and responded.
Speaker 3 (29:06):
I responded to it. Yeah. Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (29:08):
Thus, it's not like people think people think people think
that he's funny because people think Kawhi doesn't listen to anything,
doesn't hear anything. He's not influenced by anything. He hears
it all. And if he doesn't hear, somebody's telling them,
nobody's telling them, Hey, they on you about this man.
Here's seven turnovers and blah blah blah, and they don't
think you still got it anymore. And so he's got
(29:28):
He's got that corner man telling them, hey, hey, you
better better bring you whatever because they talking about you
like you done.
Speaker 3 (29:36):
And he does. He comes back and he flourishes, So
they need him to be dominant.
Speaker 4 (29:41):
I also need more from James Harden in this game.
He had an off game in Game four, and he
had an outstanding game in game one. But you and
Fred have been asking me this question. How much pressure
is on James Harden in this series? I said he
does have Kawhi to lean on. I don't think too
much much, But I did mention how later on in
(30:02):
the series, as it goes along and you get down
to those elimination games and big games like this game five,
that's when I think people are going to be watching
him because of past performances where he just laid an
egg in a performance in a big.
Speaker 1 (30:14):
Game, game seven, or a close out game or something
like that where he's not shown up. Yeah, this is critical.
It's critical for him in these next two games for
the Clippers. And this is the big one because if
they get this one, I think they come home and
close it out. Preach, preach, Yeah, no I do, I do,
I really do. But I think this one on the road,
(30:37):
it's got to be Kawhi. It takes it over. Kawhi's
got to take it over.
Speaker 4 (30:41):
He's unflappable. He is at that level of superstar where
he's an all time player and nothing seems to affect him,
whether it's the opponent or the media circus, the narrative
surrounding a series, and Kawhi has talked about so much
of this. Right now for him, as I'm able to
(31:01):
actually play in a playoff series, he's grateful to be
out there because it's been so long to be out
there and to be healthy at the same time. So
in some ways you may feel like he's playing with
house money, which could make him even looser, which can
make him even more dangerous and more deadly in those
big moments. Because they've only had him for four games.
(31:24):
The last three years in the playoffs, and two of
those games he was hurt.
Speaker 1 (31:28):
Yeah, I think it's part of that that maybe he
is thinking about house money. But I also think that
there's a feeling that people think we've seen the best
of Kawhi and he doesn't have it anymore. And I
think there's a part of him and I know, you
know it doesn't show outwardly, but there's a competitiveness to
him that is as deep as any player in the league.
(31:50):
You know, when he get him behind closed doors or
he's with his buddies, or he's with the you know,
two or three people and not with the world, he
is as competitive as anybody. And so this matters to
him that I think people are saying, can can Kawhi
give us one more magic moment?
Speaker 3 (32:06):
And uh, And I think he can.
Speaker 1 (32:09):
It's just a matter of him not being the unselfish Kawhi,
but being the selfish Kauhi and going out, I'm gonna
score forty if I can.
Speaker 4 (32:17):
I think to your point, he's aware that if he
comes out of this series the winner over Nikola Jokicic,
some people are gonna say, you know what, if Kawhi
is healthy, he still might be the best player in
the league when he's right. I think he's aware of that.
Speaker 1 (32:36):
Oh yeah, oh yeah, definitely. And all right for the Clippers.
So you've got pregame at five o'clock at.
Speaker 4 (32:43):
Him, pre game at six on the Patriot Am eleven fifty.
Speaker 1 (32:47):
Let's go yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, come on, ad him
bring home that winner.
Speaker 3 (32:53):
Brother.
Speaker 4 (32:54):
Hey, let's say the Clippers win and Kawhi goes off tonight.
You just never know who could call in the Clippers talk.
It could be Rodney Pete.
Speaker 1 (33:03):
I've seen it before, could be you've seen it before.
There's history there, Adam, thanks.
Speaker 4 (33:07):
A lot, man, I love thanks for having me.
Speaker 1 (33:11):
No show for us tomorrow, Dodgers play at noon. We
will see you on Thursday. Thanks for listening. We really
appreciate it, Adam, Thank you, Ronnie, thank you, Kevin, thank
you very much.
Speaker 3 (33:23):
We'll see y'all later. Right home, Go Clips.
Oh yes, we keep it moving on AM five seventy
Rodney Pete Adam Austlin. This hour got some big news.
Our man Andy McCullough is going to join us in
one second. But we'll get into uh some some some
Dodger baseball, also some more NBA playoffs and what's gonna
happen Clippers Game five? Can they take a commanding lead
(00:25):
and and win this series and go forward? And can
the Lakers hold on? But before we get to all
of that, let's bring on our man. He is the
senior baseball writer for The Athletic used to cover the
Dodgers as well. Our man, Andy McCullough. Andy, thanks for
joining us.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
Hey, how you guys doing.
Speaker 1 (00:42):
We are good? We are good man. All right, listen,
you stir in the pot, man, You stir in the pot.
And I guess it had had to happen because of
the schedule. But the big bad Dodgers with the four
hundred and seventy six million dollar payroll in the mighty
Marlins with the sixty nine.
Speaker 3 (01:00):
Million dollar payroll, play to other.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
Man. When someone looks at that and reads your article,
and the I mean, the reaction is, oh my god,
there's such a big difference, and what is baseball going
to do?
Speaker 3 (01:17):
Yeah, you wrote this and talked about this.
Speaker 1 (01:18):
How did it go? I mean, I mean just your
thoughts on putting this together.
Speaker 2 (01:23):
Sure, I mean, yeah, it's it's really just kind of
a quirk of the schedule and like kind of how
the rankings of payroll, Like because we could have written
this about you know, Dodgers playing the Pirates over the weekend,
or like the Dodgers sharing a spring training complex with
the White Sox, or when they play the A's, you know,
all that sort of stuff. I mean, there's a huge
gap between the Dodgers in terms of their spending and
(01:45):
those at the bottom, and so it was really just
kind of using this series between these two teams where
there's like a four hundred million dollar payroll gap to
kind of you know, look at the clubs themselves, but
also kind of the state of the sport, like how
it got to be at this stage and kind of
where it's going, and like, you know, there's there's a
belief that there's going to be a lockout again after
(02:05):
the CBA expires after the twenty twenty sixth season. You know,
they're the sort of length and pain of that lockout
may be determined by how willing the owners are to
push for a salary cap. And you know, the disparity
like this is why you're seeing more and more owners
and you know, Commissioner Rob Manford has been relatively vocal
(02:25):
about this about how they you know, would like to
consider in putting in a cap. But then again, that's
their you know, long standing desire for baseball.
Speaker 4 (02:33):
And you know, I got a hold of my sock
and my shoe currently and I'm not kidding, so I
don't have much sympathy for billionaires who won't spend money.
But is this something where that's the real issue the
guys that won't spend and could that salary floor be
more realistic in the future.
Speaker 2 (02:51):
Well, so, the thing with a salary floor, right is
the owners will say, okay, you want a floor, put
in a ceiling, you know, and like it's a it's
a labor negotiation. So it's not like the owners are
going to agree to put in any sort of you know,
mandatory minimum spend without putting a cap. And that is
(03:11):
the sort of thing that you know, the players understandably
want it. They would like there to be a floor
they would like, you know, there's been discussion of like
something called like a you know, like a poverty tax
or whatever, where if you are under a certain number,
you have to pay a tax in the same way
that the CBT you know, works as an an upper tier.
But like there's just no way for if I mean,
(03:32):
just thinking about it, logically, there's very little way for
the union to get a floor put in without putting
a cap on it. The owners are just not going
to go for that, and the players understandably do not
want a cap.
Speaker 1 (03:45):
So andy that being said, what happens after twenty twenty six,
I mean the collective Bargaining Agreement expires. You said it's
likely going to be a lockout if it continues this way.
Are can it continue this way? Because we've, as Adam said,
you got owners crying broke. You got the you know,
(04:07):
several owners saying we're just trying to break even, and
then you got the Dodgers saying, we're giving back to
our fans and we're rewarding them for supporting us, and
so it's our job to do this.
Speaker 3 (04:18):
How do they come to some.
Speaker 1 (04:20):
Sort of agreement with this where you've got teams like
the Dodgers and the Mets and Steve Cohen, we're willing
to pay to kind of put a winner on the
field every single year.
Speaker 2 (04:30):
Yeah, And I think that's why if you talk to
people around the game, there's you know, growing concern about
the possibility of a of a lengthy labor stoppage because
it's kind of hard to see how this can be
sort of easily reconciled. You know, it's just if there's
a lockout, like, are they willing to miss games in
order to try and hammer out you know, some sort
(04:53):
of agreement that like makes it easier for the owners
who aren't Steve Cohen or the Guggenheim group, you know,
to sort of continue to be in the system. I
think that, Yeah, it's just it's it really is setting
up for kind of a pretty gnarly labor standoff after
twenty twenty six. You know that they could get ugly.
(05:14):
But you know, look, there's also a lot of reason
to not in miss games to keep the season going.
You know, I think that the the economics of the
sport are still pretty strong. But if you talk to
you know, folks who are with smaller market teams, they
will point to the collapse of the RSN model. There's
been in some ways, like a decoupling between winning and
actually making money. And they look at teams like the
(05:37):
Dodgers and the Yankees and the Mets are like, these
guys have access to players that you know, we just
don't have access to on the free agent market. And
then you talk to you know, like the Dodgers. When
was the last time the Dodgers are to pick in
the first round? Right, like when it was like it
was literally, excuse not the first round, but in the
in the top ten of the first round. It was
literally Clayton Kershaw back in two thousand and six. They
(05:58):
have not had a pick in the top ten and
since then, and so, you know, the idea of them
getting access to a player like Paul Skins right now,
right that's impossible. So they're behaving like rationally based on
you know, what their market size is. But so part
of the problem is that everyone's behaving rationally. It's just
the system is set up in a way that it
makes it a lot easier to be the Dodgers than
(06:20):
it is to be a team at the bottom of
the pile.
Speaker 4 (06:22):
And ye I said earlier, and you can be straight
with me if this is overly simplistic. But I kind
of scoffed at competitive balance. The level playing field is
the fact that every owner is a billionaire and they
all can afford to spend money and put out a
better product if they want to reinvest.
Speaker 3 (06:38):
Is that true?
Speaker 4 (06:39):
Do you see it as? Okay, there are levels to this.
There are richer rich guys, there's Screws McDuck out there,
and there's still levels to billionaires.
Speaker 2 (06:48):
Yeah, I mean I think that they're like Steve Cohen,
for example, is worse. I believe the latest number is
like twenty one billion. So the Mets lose money, right,
and he's okay with that. They can lose one hundred
two hundred million dollars and it's a rounding error for him. Right,
there's a thousand millions in a billion, and he's got
(07:09):
twenty of them right now. If you compare that to
owners who have like one billion, which like, again, that
would be nice. I would like to get to that
point someday. It's probably not going to happen, but there's
just it's a different level of wealth. At the same time,
I think that when you talk to folks on the
like sort of labor side they like, for example, the
Marlins are saying like, we're not spending on free agent
(07:31):
acquisitions for the big league roster. We are redirecting our
money towards infrastructure and research and the weight room and
you know, expanding our complex and you know, getting the
new place in the dr and this, that and the
other thing, which is all perfectly reasonable and makes sense.
What the people on the labor side are saying is like,
you can do that and also compete for some free agents.
You don't have to completely sit out the free agent market.
(07:54):
And I think that is what fans for a lot
of these teams, like the Pirates, you know, the A's,
the you know, the White Sox, whatever, they would like
to see them invest in the infrastructure and also make
more of an effort on the open market.
Speaker 1 (08:06):
Yeah, I mean that's what the My question is, what
do you say to the fan base, because you go around.
Speaker 3 (08:10):
The league and you see teams.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
That are struggling already, and the fans are are yelling
sell the team, sell the team, right, because nobody cares,
Like if you're a one billion dollar guy versus like
you said, Cohen, twenty one billion.
Speaker 3 (08:24):
Sure fans look at it as you're a billionaire.
Speaker 1 (08:27):
They don't care and totally I'm getting money on the
team and I don't care that your blah blah blah.
You can write that off. I mean, what do you
say or what do they say to the fan base.
It's like, we're showing up. We want a winner, just
like the Dodgers put a winner on the field every
year or the Yankees.
Speaker 3 (08:45):
Do we want the same thing.
Speaker 2 (08:48):
Yeah, I mean I think that that is a that's
a like it's crazy how many teams fit into the bucket.
I think the majority of fans of the sport are
in that situation where you're described, I mean where they're like,
I wish the billionaire who own my team would spend more.
The way that the you know, the folks who run
these teams are saying is like, well, look, we're not
(09:09):
going to run a business to lose money, for example,
which like then you get into sort of the argument
of like whether owning a baseball team is a business
or it's a civic duty or it's you know whatever,
if it's something more than just like dollars and cents,
which I think we would all hope, uh, you know,
to believe that that's how they're run. But we also
all understand that you don't get to be a billionaire
by you know, sort of not paying attention to the
(09:31):
bottom line.
Speaker 3 (09:32):
Right.
Speaker 2 (09:32):
So all of this is to say, like, I think
fans are really exasperated, sort of frustrated with you know,
how the system works. They're frustrated that their owners are
you know, not being more aggressive on the open market.
They're even the frustrated they're seeing you know, homegrown players
get traded away and you know, end up on some
(09:53):
of these you know, bigger market teams and in some ways, right, like,
you can yell to sell the team at the owner,
but that's not really going to be effective. And part
of why I think more and more fans are staying like, well,
maybe a cap wouldn't be so bad is they know
that just yelling at the owner is not going to
change things, and so they think, well, maybe if we're
putting a cap, you know, it'll be more fair. I
(10:13):
don't know if that's necessarily the best way to make
baseball a better sport, but you can understand how some
fans in smaller markets are starting to think that way.
And you can also understand how folks on the management
side who have had the long standing goal of putting
in a cap are very happy to see the sentiment
being expressed more and more.
Speaker 4 (10:32):
Andy, is it reasonable to expect there to be a
Billy Bean, small ball, little engine that could team in
this era, or of all the equations to gain an
edge been solved at this point and that advantage of
the analytics goes out the window because every big market
has it too. Can anyone have sustained success while operating
(10:54):
on the margins?
Speaker 2 (10:56):
I think the you know, the Rays probably had the
the most recent really extended run. They've obviously taken a
step back in the last couple of years, you know,
before the A's decided to tear down right before they
you know, the sort of Vegas thing, you know, the
machination for that got more gnarly. Like the the A's
were pretty competitive. The Brewers obviously have been you know,
(11:19):
been in the playoffs like five or six years in
a row. Like you can, yeah, you can certainly do
sustained success. I think though that it's just like it's
not like a situation where you are like the Dodgers,
where you have you know, three m vps at the
top of the lineup, and you can go out on
the market and get you know, the top the top starter,
(11:39):
the top closer, the second best closer, you know, blah blah,
all the sort of things they're able to do. You know,
you're constantly churning through the roster. Your fans maybe don't
make as many meaningful connections with players because you know
they might be here and gone. But it's certainly possible
to compete. But I guess to you know when you're
when I'm talking to the Tomorrowlin's folks, and you know,
a lot of these guys have Dodgers ties, right, you know,
(12:01):
like Gave Kapler ran the Dodgers farm system. He's now
doing that for the Marlins. You know, Clayton McCullough was
obviously a co you know, a coach with the Dodgers
and also worked in their minor league system. You know,
Peter Bendix was hired by Andrew Friedman with Tampa Bay. Right,
and these guys are doing some interesting things, you know,
creative things that like might end up working and they
might get rid of them. But also they know the
Dodgers are doing creative things, right, Like the Marlins are
(12:22):
spending on a weight room. The Dodgers have a weight room,
you know, like they have all of the things that
these small market teams are trying to do. They also
have the ability to go out and sign show Hey Otani,
to sign Yo Chernobo Yamamoto, et cetera, et cetera. And
so yeah, that makes it just a lot tougher to
really have sustained success as a small revenue team.
Speaker 1 (12:43):
Anny McCulloch joins a senior baseball writer for The Athletic Andy.
You know a lot to talk about competitive balance, right,
there's a competitive balance tax, and there's one a week
balance in baseball.
Speaker 3 (12:54):
You know, we talked about this earlier.
Speaker 1 (12:56):
There really hasn't there hasn't been a repeat center of
the World Series the Yankees did in the late nineties,
and and you've seen teams you mentioned Tampa Bay a
few years back they played the Dodgers in the World Series.
I mean it, you can you can do it. Is
it that big of discrepancy? And you mentioned you rolled
(13:18):
off a few teams like the Brewers, some other teams
that make the playoffs. Teams can compete even with the
Dodgers and the Mets and the Yankees and the Phillies
maybe spending the money that they're spending, you still have
the ability to compete because there's so many players out.
Speaker 2 (13:34):
There for sure, And like, look, the playoffs are a crapshoot,
you know. And like this Dodgers team, I think they're
going to be really good. They're probably gonna win more
games than anyone. They're probably going to be the number
one overall seed going into October. And would anyone be
surprised as they got knocked out in the first round. No,
Like we've seen it happen, right, We understand that baseball
is pretty stickle, and so yeah, the champion does rotate,
(13:57):
you know, from year to year. But at the same time,
like the World Series winner five of the last six
years has been in a top ten payroll. There hasn't
been a team in the bottom third win the World
Series since the two thousand and three Florida Monolings. There's
a pretty clear connection between spending and winning. It's possible
to not spend a great amount and be successful. It's
(14:20):
a lot easier if you do all the things that
those teams do and you also spend some money. And
that is like how you feel about what you think
is the sort of solution based on you know, those
set of facts differs on where you stand on the
labor management divide. Labor looks at it as like, well,
more teams should be spending. Management looks at it as like, hey,
they should probably curb the spending to make it more fair.
(14:43):
And that's kind of the crux of like what the
you know, the negotiations are going to be over when
the CBA expires after next.
Speaker 4 (14:50):
Season, Andy are is part of the issue or something
that's going to be brought up the deferred money that's
going on deferred payments with the Dodgers, because you talk
about this four hundred and six million dollar difference in
payroll that doesn't include a lot of money. Still, is
that going to be something on the table in the
collective already agreement?
Speaker 2 (15:09):
I don't think so because I'm not totally sure who's
really against the deferred money right, like owners are fine
with it and if players are taking it like it's
not a big deal. I think, you know, the Dodgers
have obviously been doing a lot of that lately, but
they're not the first club to do that, and it's
I think that's going to become more commonplaces. Teams are
looking to try and move money around and deal with
kind of the CBT and all that sort of stuff.
(15:30):
So I don't I have not in sort of doing
reporting around this, And just during the course of the
year heard many people complaining about the deferrals. I think
that was just a thing that non Dodgers sands were
whining about during the offseason because it seemed unfair.
Speaker 3 (15:46):
It's not them.
Speaker 1 (15:49):
Andy, we do We're We're in LA, We're on you know,
We're yeah, are so to the Dodgers. Obviously it was
a Dodger station. But what do you make of the
Dodgers and what they've been able to do since the
Guggenheim guys took over. They brought in Andrew Friedman stand
cast and took over. I was I went to Japan
to see the Tokyo series and just the globalization of
(16:12):
the Dodgers, and obviously Show he is a huge part
of that, along with Yamamoto and Saki. But it's really
all about show.
Speaker 3 (16:19):
Hey.
Speaker 1 (16:20):
But to see the Dodgers in Major League Baseball all
over Japan, it was it was really impressive and incredible.
What do you make of just the strategy that the
Dodgers have put in place. I know other teams are
envious because they got showy and they're global, but it
is it blew me, It blew me away. How they
(16:41):
have to me taken over in terms of branding, maybe
the biggest brand in sports.
Speaker 2 (16:48):
Yeah, I think they deserve a good amount of credit.
And I think some other teams could have done this too,
you know, if they had been fortunate enough to land Otani.
But the Dodgers really underderstood that if they were able
to sign Otani, they could unlock revenue streams that no
other club would have access to, and they could really
sort of turn this into like a perpetual motion machine
(17:11):
of money flowing through the front office and so not
the front office, ecuse me, just through like the club.
And they understood through partnerships and sponsorships and all these
deals and tours and blah blah blah blah blah, they
could have so much money available to them. And they
did a really really good job of, you know, sort
of pouncing on that as soon as they got Otani
(17:34):
and have continued to try and level up that sort
of connection with Japan and you know, and like sort
of getting into that revenue stream and sort of allowing
this thing to kind of finance itself. I mean that's
the big part of you know, the sort of disparity
between the Dodgers really everyone else is like they're the
big market team making money, and it's because they have
(17:56):
so much more money coming into their coffers because of
Otani and so like. Yeah, I mean obviously, you know,
the Krugenaym Group has done an excellent job, you know,
since they have come on board Andrew Freeman inherited you know,
a pretty good club, you know, built by Ned Colletti
and Logan White, and you know, has turned it into
a juggernaut. Yeah, they're like the model franchise for obvious reasons.
Speaker 3 (18:19):
I would say, Yeah, well, Annie, I appreciate it, man.
It was a great article.
Speaker 1 (18:24):
You do, great stuff, man, Thanks for coming on and
joining us and enlightening us on on this competitive balance
in the gap. And we'll continue to talk and see
what happens after next year, man, and hopefully there's not
a work stoppage.
Speaker 3 (18:39):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:39):
I mean, I don't know, I could always like go
to law school or something, or I don't know, you know,
I'm a young man still hopefully.
Speaker 1 (18:47):
Yeah you again, man, Thanks thanks for joining us, Man,
I really appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (18:51):
Yeah, no problem, thanks for having us.
Speaker 3 (18:52):
Just fun. There we go.
Speaker 1 (18:55):
Many thanks to Any McCullough. He is he has dialed
in Adam on on everything baseball, and and and and
all the things that he does. So it's it's pretty impressive.
But it'll be interesting to see what happens over the
next couple of years, or at least through next year,
because there will be the whiners that complain about the
Dodgers doing things and all those kind of type of situations.
(19:17):
But we will see in the meantime, this Dodgers keep
winning and keep winning World Series. Adam Austin, Rodney Pete,
Am five seventy l A Sports.
Speaker 3 (19:26):
Oh yes.
Speaker 1 (19:30):
On a beautiful Tuesday, sunny southern California. Rodney Pete, Adam Auslin,
many thanks to Annie McCullough. Yeah, and it's there will
always be people whining. But but the money, you think
the money thing, and he talked about the discrepancy of
(19:50):
four hundred and six I think four hundred and six
or four hundred and nine million dollars between the Dodgers
and and UH and the Marlins Eventually something's going to
have to happen. I don't know what, but something's going
to have to happen in terms of a cap or
a floor or something, because I don't want and he
(20:11):
mentioned this, but nobody wants to see a work stoppage.
No one wants to see a labor dispute, which this
collective bargaining agreement ends at the end of the twenty
twenty six season, and the way it's going to have
and have nots the money that's being thrown out there,
does something have to change or does something have to
be regulated in order for it to survive and go forward.
Speaker 4 (20:35):
I think the first paragraph of Andy's piece on this,
which was wonderfully written, kind of outlines how the gap
is getting wider here because he takes it back to
two thousand and two, where there was an eighty five
million dollar difference between the highest payroll and the lowest payroll,
and now we're getting to a four hundred million dollar difference.
(20:57):
That's where things start to get scary, I think for
Major League Baseball and why they're going to put more
importance into this CBA. This is going to be a
big one. I think. So if people are digging their
heels in. Yeah, there could be a stoppage because I
think it's too important for them not to figure this
out now before it gets two out of hand.
Speaker 3 (21:19):
Yeah, I'm just wondering.
Speaker 1 (21:22):
Because you never know when when when billionaires cry broke
or we're not making any money, or we're losing money,
and yeah, I think people become skeptical, especially with the
valuations of all the teams now in every sport, you
look up and go, you know, because I think he
mentioned the Mets or losing money, and Cohen doesn't matter.
It doesn't matter him because he's got twenty one billion dollars,
(21:42):
So losing one hundred two hundred million dollars a year,
it's a it's a line on them, it's a zero.
It's a lost leader for him. Not every owners like that,
But are we saying that every owner should be like that?
Speaker 4 (21:58):
I think to some degree. I think when you're looking
at bringing in ownership and how important that's going to
be and how long somebody is going to have try
to be good stewards of their franchise, you have to
see are their pocketbooks deep enough that they're willing to
go through some lean years to have sustainable winning eventually
(22:23):
to become a team that can piece year in a
year out. Those are the type of owners you're looking for,
those who care about nothing else but winning. They can't
view this as just an investment.
Speaker 3 (22:35):
And by the way, again, not anymore, not anymore, for sure.
Speaker 4 (22:39):
This whole thing where oh, we're guaranteed to make so
much money per year and if we're not, then well
we better rip up our contracts and have a strike
because we have to make sure we're getting a good
return on our investment. Doesn't it matter, like how you
actually are supporting it. Shouldn't that be part of it?
(23:00):
Like there's no guarantees that you're getting nine percent back
every year in the s and P five hundred or
anything like that.
Speaker 3 (23:06):
There isn't.
Speaker 4 (23:06):
They're down years, there's lean years.
Speaker 3 (23:08):
Can you assie less? You're unless you're in the.
Speaker 1 (23:12):
King of all sports, which is the NFL where they
all make money.
Speaker 3 (23:15):
They figured it out.
Speaker 1 (23:16):
They have figured it out. They've got, you know, their
collective bargain agreement. Everybody gets the share of all the
revenue and the TV money and all those things, the
gambling money. I think they're reported that every team, every
owner now is going to get about four hundred and
seventy million dollar check coming soon.
Speaker 3 (23:37):
It just and and with and they.
Speaker 1 (23:40):
Have a salary cap, which is I think the difference
obviously with with the NFL and the other sports is
they do have a salary cap and there is a
player share agreement of I believe it's like sixty something
percent that the players get and that has to go
to the players in terms of revenue. So you can't fudget,
you can't do anything with it. If you making it,
you got to give it back. You got to give
(24:02):
it to the players in terms of salary. So the
NFL has done it right, but some of these other leagues,
but they've been saying this about baseball for years, that
baseball's out of control with spending money and giving this.
I remember back when they were given twenty million dollar
contracts and people are going crazy about it.
Speaker 4 (24:20):
You remember the Kevin Brown Sports Illustrated. Oh he had
the first one hundred million dollar picture or fifty million
dollar picture? What was it then? It was it was insane.
Speaker 3 (24:27):
First whatever, but it was not even close to what
they're sniffing now.
Speaker 4 (24:31):
Yeah, hey, even with inflation. I think a lot of
this and obviously why Andy wrote it. The Dodgers. They're
at the forefront of everyone's mind because of the way
they're spending. But the truth is they're spending wisely. What
everyone's winding about is the Dodgers have the best of
both worlds. They brought in a guy with a small
(24:52):
market mindset that knew to win, how to win on
the margins, and Andrew Friedman, and they said, oh, by
the way, spend as much as you want, so if
you do make some mistakes here or there, we can compensate,
but still stick to your system. Stick to your plan.
We got the best farm system already waiting for you.
(25:14):
And now go out and build a team the way
you'd like to with the analytics, and we'll also be
able to support you. Yep, guests be choked up just
thinking about it.
Speaker 3 (25:29):
I hear you, brother, I hear you.
Speaker 1 (25:31):
All Right, Clippers and Denver, let's get into it. Get
into it, and and the Lakers come back from down
three to one. We'll talk about those two teams to
close this out. Rodney Pete, Adam Oslin and five seventy
LA Sports. Oh yes, Rodney Pete Adam Oslin on a Tuesday,
(25:53):
all right, Adam O Adam Oof Clippers Denver two too.
Speaker 3 (26:00):
Come on, now, break it down for me.
Speaker 4 (26:02):
Pivotal happen game five. You know what it is. You're
tied at to too. That Game five the winner goes
on to win eighty four percent of the time. Now
it's a best of three series at this point, and
the Denver Nuggets have home court advantage. So the thought
process for most of the Clippers Nation is, you gotta
win this ball game to have a chance to close
(26:25):
things out in game six. Add into it, Dome. You
don't want to end up going back to Denver for
a Game seven, And truthfully, you feel like you've left
some meat on the bone so far in this series.
The Clippers are up fifteen in Game one, it goes
to overtime, they lose.
Speaker 1 (26:43):
Then.
Speaker 4 (26:44):
While you can argue they shouldn't have came back anyways
in Game four and that was Denver's problem, they did
come back and they had it tied, and there's this
miraculous airball by Nikola jokicch that somehow gets pushed through
the hoop, the immaculate airball. And so you're at too
too and you feel like you could be up three
to one. But maybe Denver can make the same argument.
(27:05):
If Kawhi doesn't go off in game two, they win
that one. I think they need more from Kawhi tonight,
obviously than they got in Game four. He wasn't at
his best until very late in that ballgame, and the
Clippers made an interesting move. They leaned into offense. They
put bo don Bodanovitch out there. They didn't have Chris Dunn,
they didn't have DJ, they didn't have Niko Batoum. They
(27:26):
spread him out and they went on a huge run.
So I'm interested to see if Coach lou goes back
to it.
Speaker 1 (27:31):
I'd like him to go back to it because he
can score in bunches and I think, you know, he
got a little dog in him. Lookdonovitch got a little
dog in him, and I think when he starts to
feel it, the rest of the team feels it from
him too, you know, and they kick it to him.
But I you know, absolutely right, you know, in games
(27:53):
like this, pivotal games or close or game seven to whatever,
Kawhi's got to take over. Kawhi's got to be the
guy that just because he's still to me, he's still
the best player on the court.
Speaker 3 (28:07):
When he's healthy, he can do anything.
Speaker 1 (28:10):
He can do anything on the court, and this nobody
can stop him when he's right and he's healthy. And
I think he's got to impose his will. And sometimes
that means Adam, and sometimes that means you got to
be a little selfish. You gotta be a little selfish.
And he's got to be a little selfish tonight and
then going forward, especially if if when it goes back
(28:32):
to Denver to close this thing out, Uh, he's got
to be very selfishness.
Speaker 4 (28:39):
If he has a flaw in his game. I think
you're right. Sometimes he's too unselfish. Sometimes he's so focused
on making the right basketball play. It's like, oh, the
right basketball player is for you to take this midway
over two players, over the double team, because you're that
good and you're that unstoppable and you see through defenders
when you're in the zone, and that's where you're is
(29:00):
that in game two and remember after game one he
had seven turnovers. People are calling him out and he
came back and responded.
Speaker 3 (29:06):
I responded to it. Yeah. Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (29:08):
Thus, it's not like people think people think people think
that he's funny because people think Kawhi doesn't listen to anything,
doesn't hear anything. He's not influenced by anything. He hears
it all. And if he doesn't hear, somebody's telling them,
nobody's telling them, Hey, they on you about this man.
Here's seven turnovers and blah blah blah, and they don't
think you still got it anymore. And so he's got
(29:28):
He's got that corner man telling them, hey, hey, you
better better bring you whatever because they talking about you
like you done.
Speaker 3 (29:36):
And he does. He comes back and he flourishes, So
they need him to be dominant.
Speaker 4 (29:41):
I also need more from James Harden in this game.
He had an off game in Game four, and he
had an outstanding game in game one. But you and
Fred have been asking me this question. How much pressure
is on James Harden in this series? I said he
does have Kawhi to lean on. I don't think too
much much, But I did mention how later on in
(30:02):
the series, as it goes along and you get down
to those elimination games and big games like this game five,
that's when I think people are going to be watching
him because of past performances where he just laid an
egg in a performance in a big.
Speaker 1 (30:14):
Game, game seven, or a close out game or something
like that where he's not shown up. Yeah, this is critical.
It's critical for him in these next two games for
the Clippers. And this is the big one because if
they get this one, I think they come home and
close it out. Preach, preach, Yeah, no I do, I do,
I really do. But I think this one on the road,
(30:37):
it's got to be Kawhi. It takes it over. Kawhi's
got to take it over.
Speaker 4 (30:41):
He's unflappable. He is at that level of superstar where
he's an all time player and nothing seems to affect him,
whether it's the opponent or the media circus, the narrative
surrounding a series, and Kawhi has talked about so much
of this. Right now for him, as I'm able to
(31:01):
actually play in a playoff series, he's grateful to be
out there because it's been so long to be out
there and to be healthy at the same time. So
in some ways you may feel like he's playing with
house money, which could make him even looser, which can
make him even more dangerous and more deadly in those
big moments. Because they've only had him for four games.
(31:24):
The last three years in the playoffs, and two of
those games he was hurt.
Speaker 1 (31:28):
Yeah, I think it's part of that that maybe he
is thinking about house money. But I also think that
there's a feeling that people think we've seen the best
of Kawhi and he doesn't have it anymore. And I
think there's a part of him and I know, you
know it doesn't show outwardly, but there's a competitiveness to
him that is as deep as any player in the league.
(31:50):
You know, when he get him behind closed doors or
he's with his buddies, or he's with the you know,
two or three people and not with the world, he
is as competitive as anybody. And so this matters to
him that I think people are saying, can can Kawhi
give us one more magic moment?
Speaker 3 (32:06):
And uh, And I think he can.
Speaker 1 (32:09):
It's just a matter of him not being the unselfish Kawhi,
but being the selfish Kauhi and going out, I'm gonna
score forty if I can.
Speaker 4 (32:17):
I think to your point, he's aware that if he
comes out of this series the winner over Nikola Jokicic,
some people are gonna say, you know what, if Kawhi
is healthy, he still might be the best player in
the league when he's right. I think he's aware of that.
Speaker 1 (32:36):
Oh yeah, oh yeah, definitely. And all right for the Clippers.
So you've got pregame at five o'clock at.
Speaker 4 (32:43):
Him, pre game at six on the Patriot Am eleven fifty.
Speaker 1 (32:47):
Let's go yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, come on, ad him
bring home that winner.
Speaker 3 (32:53):
Brother.
Speaker 4 (32:54):
Hey, let's say the Clippers win and Kawhi goes off tonight.
You just never know who could call in the Clippers talk.
It could be Rodney Pete.
Speaker 1 (33:03):
I've seen it before, could be you've seen it before.
There's history there, Adam, thanks.
Speaker 4 (33:07):
A lot, man, I love thanks for having me.
Speaker 1 (33:11):
No show for us tomorrow, Dodgers play at noon. We
will see you on Thursday. Thanks for listening. We really
appreciate it, Adam, Thank you, Ronnie, thank you, Kevin, thank
you very much.
Speaker 3 (33:23):
We'll see y'all later. Right home, Go Clips.
Roggin And Rodney News
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