March 12, 2024 • 38 mins
On episode 110 hosts Andre Goulet and Gennie Pimentel welcome Shanna Tan, translator of the smash hit book WELCOME TO THE HYUNAM-DONG BOOKSHOP by Hwang Bo-reum.
In this conversation Shanna explains why a slice of life novel about a high-flying career woman in Seoul who leaves a life of burnout and marital misery to open a book shop outside of the city has become a massive international success in a conversation exploring the barbarity of life under late capitalism and the changing face of contemporary South Korean literature.
Find the book at your local library or independent bookstore and support this podcast at patreon.com/thekoreafile
In this conversation Shanna explains why a slice of life novel about a high-flying career woman in Seoul who leaves a life of burnout and marital misery to open a book shop outside of the city has become a massive international success in a conversation exploring the barbarity of life under late capitalism and the changing face of contemporary South Korean literature.
Find the book at your local library or independent bookstore and support this podcast at patreon.com/thekoreafile
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Episode Transcript
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(00:04):
You're listening to The Korea File.I'm Andre Gula. The Korea File has
been exploring Korean society, culture andpolitics, and highlighting critical, independent voices
you won't find anywhere else since twentyfourteen. Find almost nine years of archived
episodes, including interviews with academics,activists, musicians, and more. Wherever
(00:24):
you get your podcasts, you cansupport the show at patreon dot com slash
the Korea File and on this episode, we'll be speaking with Shanna Tan,
the translator for Van Boom's smash hitbook Welcome to the Hymnam Dong Bookshop,
a slice of life novel about ahigh flying career woman in Soul who leaves
(00:47):
a life of burnout and marital miseryto open a bookshop in a small residential
neighborhood outside of the city. We'llalso be talking about the changing face of
contemporary literature on the Peninsula. Butfirst, as always, I'm here with
co host Jenny Pimentel in Toronto.Hi Jenny, Hey, Andre, Jenny.
I'm excited for our conversation with Shanna, but honestly, there's a lot
(01:08):
of bad news out of South Korealately. Did you know President yunsukiel is
still promising to take steps to abolishthe Ministry of Gender Equality and Family.
Oh my god. And to behonest, the really anti social doctor strike
happening right now in protest of thegovernment's proposal to raise the cap on the
number of medical students by two thousandhas already led to the death of like
(01:30):
a bunch of people. So thethings. To be honest, things are
not good. But I wanted tobegin this episode by highlighting probably the bad
news South Korea international news story ofthe month. This headline's from The Guardian.
Average number of births per woman fallsto zero point seven to two in
country that already has the world's lowestrate. Jenny, people are not having
(01:51):
babies anymore, are they? Yeah? No, they're definitely not. The
average number of children that a SouthKorean woman has in her lifetime fell to
zero point seven to two from zeropoint seven to eight a year ago.
That's an eight percent decline and accordingto data from Statistics Korea, which is
a government affiliated body, so thisis way below the two point one kids
(02:13):
that a country needs to maintain apopulation. And seth Cree's population is currently
fifty one million So basically, ifthe low fertility rate persists, the population
is going to be projected to almostdrop in half within the next seventy five
years. That's according to the Institutefor Health Metrics and Evaluation in Seattle at
the University of Washington. So notgood. Not good sounds like an emergency
(02:38):
situation. So what I thought wasinteresting though, was another story that came
up last week which kind of tellsthe story of why this is happening,
because, according to a recent reportcited in the excellent Blue Roof newsletter,
it's mostly rich people that are havingthe babies. Does that surprise you?
(03:00):
Check this out. The fact thatchildren have become in a lot of ways
luxury goods is part of what's goingon here. So according to a new
study out of Soul Women's University,the study showed that as the birth rate
falls, only rich people are havingkids. And the study took a sample
of one hundred households with a newbornbaby, categorize those households into three income
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groups, low income meaning earning lessthan seventy five percent of the median and
middle income, and high income,and the results are really stark. Almost
fifty five percent of households with ababy belonged to the high income and only
eight point five percent belonged to thelow income. So, in other words,
more than half of all creating kidswere born into high income families.
(03:46):
That really shocked me. That isvery shocking. Anyways, it's grim,
but hopefully look for an episode examiningthis alarming South Korean demographic trend later this
year on the Koreaphile. It's definitelya story we'll be keeping our eye on,
definitely. But now let's turn thepage and dive into our topic on
this episode. Let's let's open thelibrary of Korean books, Denny. A
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lot of the top shelf titles havebeen taking audiences by storm around the world
lately, and particularly in English translationsof Korean literature, isn't that right?
Yes, Korean books have recently gainedtons of popularity in the Western market.
I remember when I was a lotyounger, a couple of years ago,
hearing about the story Please Take Careof Mom by Keiol Musukshin, and that
(04:34):
was kind of my first exposure toKorean literature and translation. And there wasn't
a lot of variety outside of thatwhen I was growing up. But recently,
there have been a lot more options. I've seen tons of titles in
libraries and in bookshops, a varietyof genres like science fiction, and many
(04:56):
Korean women writers being translated into English, like and you might know one of
her titles, The Vegetarian, anothervery popular book. So this actually reminds
me that my sister was reading Pleasetake care of Mom, like back in
two thousand and I want to sayfifteen, when my sister, her partner,
(05:17):
their new baby, my niece,and my mother visited me and my
partner at the time on Jaju Island, and Mom was then reading the book
when they were visiting us, andit was sort of cute. It's like,
oh, please take care of Mom, and it's like my mom's there
and stuff and whatever. But then, oh my god, we messed up
because when we were back in Seoulwith the family, you know, after
(05:41):
Jju, like taking vacation, soulwaiting for the train, waiting for the
subway, and I get on withmy partner and my sister and her husband
and my niece and we turn andmy mom's like just a little slow,
and the doors close and we cansee her through, see her through the
glass, which is just like thethe most like uncanny thing to leave behind,
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you know, a parent on thissoul metro system. So n luckily
we did like get off the nextstation we came back. Mom hadn't left,
thank god, and so it wasfine. But we didn't take care
of mom. Jenny is the point. So so anyways, this this episode
one hundred and ten of the Kreophile. On this episode, we wanted to
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explore Korean literature by speaking with someonewho understands that world really well. She's
a literary translator of the best sellingnovel from Huangbodom. It's called Welcome to
the Hilnam Dong Bookshop. It's soldmore than two hundred thousand copies in Korea
and around the world. Wow,those are some big numbers for sure.
So without further ado, please welcomeShauna ten. She translated Welcome to the
(06:48):
Hyunan Dome Bookshop into English and hasworked in literary translation for about two years.
Shawna, Welcome to the Koreaphile.Thank you Andrea and Jenny for inviting
me to the podcast. We're reallyhappy to have you here. So Shanna
tell us about the book. What'slike the elevator pitch. How would you
(07:09):
summarize Welcome to the Janna I'm DouneBookshop in just a few words. I
would say it's a warm hub inthe form of a book where you'll be
spending time in the bookshop, listeningto the conversations around you and contemplating what's
important about life, So things likehappeness, what does work mean to you?
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And what does success mean to you? So just like how we have
our own comfort food. To me, this is a very comforting read something
that I would reach out to fromtime to time, especially if I feel
like I need a little bit amotivation, something that like, you know,
I want someone to listen to theworries that I have, and I
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think this will be the perfect bookfor that. Okay, So your first
impressions when you read the book werebasically like you felt like you were being
invited into this world and was veryand very nice. Okay, that's awesome.
So how did you connect with theproject and translating hum I'm Done Bookshop?
And what was the experience like translatingthe book. This is quite interesting
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because like for translated fiction, alot of times it's picked up by the
English publishers through different means. Sosometimes it's the literary translator who pitched the
book directly to the editor, andsometimes the editor might have heard about the
book, especially if it's like,you know, doing very well in its
(08:33):
home country. And for this oneon the editor at Blwsbury they already heard
of this human Welcome to the Humanumdone bookshop. They because it's being represented
by a literary agent from career.So I think they saw the catalog and
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they found that, oh, youknow, this sounds like perfect, you
know, very heartwarming, and thetitle, I mean, it's a book
about bookshop, and I think thereis a gendure that a lot of us
are into, you know, it'sreal readers. So they wanted to know
a little bit more about, youknow, what this book exactly is,
and they wanted to commission a sampleand also like a book report, so
(09:16):
really the full burn story, likethe whole sypnosis. And I was recommended
to the editor by my mentor,who is Anton Her and he I think
everyone who reads translated current literature willknow him. So yeah, so he
what was my mentor for this mentorshipprogram. It's under National Center for Writings
(09:39):
n CW Emerging Translator Mentorship, andso he recommended me to the editor and
so I worked on it and afterwardsthe editor really liked this book and I
ended up working on this. Sothat was how I connected to this project,
which is a little bit different frommy pitching. It direct lead to
(10:00):
the editives. And I'm really interestedto hear that it's a book for people
who like books. I mean,I love libraries. I love used bookstores,
I love book bookstores. Like that'samazing. Yeah, I love that.
Yeah, Shanna, So a littlebit more about yourself. You just
mentioned that Anton hr is one ofyour mentors. That's a big name drop,
very impressive. But before you wentinto that institute for translation, I
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just wanted to ask you, howdid you get into translating from Korean,
Japanese and Chinese into English. I'mactually Singaporean and I grew up bilingual in
English and Chinese. But but then, even though you know, I have
two languages since young, I neverreally thought about translation. You know,
(10:48):
it's just some it's just the languagesthat I use in my daily life.
I don't really think so much.And it's only when Korean and Japanese came
into my life that it really changedthe trajectory of my life. It's not
even being kind of like as Aguaryday. It really changed my entire life
and also a lot of my lifechoices. And so I started self studying
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Korean like about fifteen years ago,and Japanese about I think twelve years And
when after I started learning those languages, I just looked at languages in a
different way, like last time.To me, English and Chinese were probably
just you know, subjects that youare forced to study at school, so
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I didn't really have, you know, that stronger relationship with languages. But
after I started learning foreign languages,then naturally I end up reading a lot
more in those languages and like discoveringa whole brand new world of literature.
And back then I was like,oh, you know, these are amazing
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books. I wish more people canbe it. Then I think like that
was when the seed of like literarytranslation was like planted in me, and
but with a lot of things likeIt's something that I was interested in,
but I didn't really act on it. And it was only when I read
Anton Hurst translation of The Cord Dancerby Consulp Shit that I fell in love
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with literary translation. Yeah, sothat was how I was very inspired by
that, because it just reads sobeautifully to me. And because of that,
I ended up seeing translated fiction asa gendre on its own, and
sol and I started reading a lotmore. And previously because I can speak,
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you know, I can read inJapanese and Korean and English and Chinese,
so sometimes I would just gravitate naturallytowards the sauce additions. But after
reading his translation, I kind ofsee literary translation as a john job,
as porn. And these days,even though I could read the sauce text,
I sometimes would choose, in factto read the English translation of those
(13:13):
I'm so surprised, and I justlove how there's these threads of linguistics and
language behind translation. I think thecivilian or like the outsider, might not
always think about all this stuff inthe background, but I love hearing that.
Thank you, Shauna, Jenny.Let's talk about themes. You had
an interesting question to pursue talking aboutthe themes of this book. I did,
so I actually read the book.I read it in the English translation,
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the one that you wrote, Shauna, and I also read a bit
of it in the source text,and I just thought it was really interesting
seeing like the similarities and differences inthe actual language bits. But overall,
the themes I think presented were reallywell translated in your translation of the book.
And there were just tons of themesin this book, very kind of
(14:03):
sentimental and relatable to myself, kindof like self growth, grief and loss
of friends and family, stress andburnout from overwork, and company culture and
so much more. And I thinkit was really through the characters in this
book, like jung Ju the bookshopowner, min Jun the barista, Tungs
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the frequenting customer, and so on, that we discovered these themes. It
was really through seeing them interact andhaving internal dialogues or internal monologues that we
saw their perspectives of the world andhow their actions and desires embodied this longing
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for human connection and finding life purposeand finding community as well. I think
this book is really driven by theseemotions and these passions of wanting to live
that independent life and to chase yourdreams, which really contrasts with the profit
driven, fast paced society that thecharacters live in. So, Shanna,
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how do you think these themes landto Korean readers in the context of South
Korean society, which is so muchdriven by like success in work, and
how might it land in other countrieswith similar dog eat dog capitalist cultures.
No. I think that this bothdid so well also because they go right
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deep into the issues that Koreans aregrappling with these days. So, for
example, Tonso how she remains asa contract worker for so long, denied
a permanent position, And my understandingis that that'sposed. Having like a permanent
position a role in Korean companies isvery important because then you get assessed to
(15:58):
like the full national insurance, pensionbenefits, et cetera. But these days,
like a lot of Korean companies,they choose to rely on contract workers,
and this means that you don't havejob stability, and there is this
idea that contract work may not seemas I guess a subsist, prestigious or
(16:22):
like you know, stable, asa full time, permanent position. So
this is a common topic that isbeing explored and a lot of Korean novels
that I've read, So I thinkthis is why this boat really speaks to
how Koreans are feeling right now.Yeah, So, for personally, I
(16:45):
would say that Men Jun's story reallytouched me the most, and because you
know, in Singapore, we arealso living in a similarly competitive society whereby
it's very pragmatic and there is avery fixed definition of success. And I
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think like that it's a similar kindof culture in a lot of Asian societies.
And so which is why I thinkI've seen a lot of readers from
Southeast Asia and North aest Asia's commentingabout how they really relate to a lot
of the themes that are in thisstory. So back to like Menjrin's story,
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it touched me the most because itfeels the most like my own story,
because like one of my favorite chaptersin the book is this chapter called
Buttons without Poles, and it startedoff talking about this Korean saying that life's
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off to a good start after youdo up the first button, and usually
the first button is referred to like, you know, getting into a good
university, and after you get intoa good university, it feels like life
will be smooth sailing that you know, you're kind of guaranteed a pretty good
job after that, you know,and then like everything will kind of like
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fall in place. And this isthat like saying was something that when I
started learning Korean and I learned thisin Korean, I was like feeling very
inspired by it, because you know, we want to feel as if hard
work we will definitely get us somewhere. So to me, like that was
very motivating. But when I readMinjin's story, it felt like that in
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the end became something that was aburden to him because like he did all
these things, like you know,he got into a good university, but
he couldn't get a job. Andthen it was a little bit similar to
my own journey as well, becauseyeah, you know, this saying kind
of like motivated me throughout the fouryears in university and I did linguistics for
(19:00):
my bachelor's degree and the Singapore thatwas, yeah, that is something that
is pretty uncommon, and you know, there's this idea that because you come
from a humanity background, it's veryhard for you to get a job.
So that was exactly the whole trajectoryof how what I went through. And
also, you know, for awhile in this story, he's like lost,
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he's not shown what to do.He didn't really like coffee that much
when he signed up to be aBARRISTERA And I think that is what a
lot of us relate to also thatyou know, when we go into a
job, do we really like it? How many of us can really say
that we are doing what we likeand even if we are, are we
really happy? So right now,for me literary translation, it's also something
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that I'm exploring and I don't knowwhere it's going to take me. But
sometimes when I feel a little bitlike unsure about myself and where I'm going,
I kind of like returned to certainchapters in the book and seeing how
the characters are also going through similarissues, it kind of comforts me a
(20:08):
lot. Yeah, because I wouldsay that this book a lot of times
it's about characters that are at acrossroad. They're in the middle of something,
and that is why a lot allof us would relate to it because
usually we are not at starting something, We are not at the end of
the journey. We are always inthe middle. And that's also the time
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where we have a lot of questionsin our mind, like you know,
am I doing okay? Is thisreally the right path for me? And
this book just feels like a friendthat you know telling you that, oh
you know all of us, weare all going through the same thing.
You are not alone. So Ithink that is why it's receiving a lot
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of love from readers in different countries. And there are also people who come
from I guess like less stressful societies, and to them they see it as,
oh, that is actually a verynew or interesting way that people think
about work in a society that is, you know, completely different from where
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they come from. So I liketo see how different people are engaging with
the novel in different ways. AndI think this is the kind of read
where you end up reflecting a lotalongside the characters and hearing, yeah,
hearing hearing this sort of description ofthe book. It makes me think about
(21:34):
how in an era of late capitalism, a lot of a lot of the
bad vibes are because people are reallydisappointed because yeah, they were kind of
told things would be a different wayand it's not that way. And so
I was curious when Jenny and Iwere kind of exploring some questions to speak
with you about in this interview ifwe could be making a connection between some
(21:56):
of the other Korean culture that's reallyhad a broad international impact. And I
was thinking, like Squid Game,which is very much a you know,
bloody Netflix series about about dogg eatdog capitalism and parasites, which is like
another brutal in a completely different way, but the Oscar winning bun June Home
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movie. But hearing you talk aboutit like this, this seems like such
a different kind of book because it'sa book that comforts people and gives them
like a different kind of escapism,which I think is really really lovely.
Actually, Jenny, let's move onto question number six. Can you can
you explore a little bit more aboutthe gap and translation? Yeah, so
(22:40):
this is something that I am reallyinterested in as someone who is bilingual.
How do you work around a gapin translation? And any listeners who are
bilingual as well will have encountered this. But to translate something word for word
is such a typic thing, especiallywhen it comes to culturally specific concepts,
(23:03):
things that aren't so easily translatable.When you try to explain it in another
language, it can get so convolutedand confusing. So yeah, I've read
many translated works and seen a coupleof different approaches that authors will take.
Either translators will try to find anequivalent in the language of translation, or
(23:27):
they will just transliterate. What's transliterate, Jenny, Oh, so all right,
So basically transliterate would be you takingthe word and spelling it out in
the language of translation instead of findingan equivalent word. So, for example,
if you take the booky translating it, you would get something like spicy
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rice cake. But a transliteration wouldjust be if you spelled out the book.
Yeah, so I guess with transliterationand you kind of make the reader
do a little more work or expectthat the reader has a bit more background
in the language. But Seana,what is your perspective on this and how
do you approach this dilemma of gapsand translation. Yeah, some of the
(24:17):
languages I work from and currently rightnow it's mainly Korean and Chinese. It's
they are very different from English.So let's just take like Korean. Korean,
the would order itself is completely different. So the verbs for Korean goals
at the end, while in Englishit's like in the buddle. So because
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of the difference it would order,it's like, for example, a sentence
like sometimes the emotional payoffs at theback. In Korean it kind of like
boots up the suspense and it's atthe end. But then if you want
to translate it into English, andyou have to think a little bit more
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work, a little bit the morething of like creative solutions to see how
you can maintain that kind of pacingthat you know you don't want things to
maybe yeah, you want to payoff to still be at the back.
So it's like completely impossible to dolike work forward translation anyway that we shouldn't
be doing that. And also likeI like to think of what jeremediang are
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translated from Chinese than to English,would say that we always called jeremediang like
it says like you know, oh, we don't translate words, we translate
vibes. So that to me islike one of yeah, it's like a
very important thing in my own translationapproach it. So and also for example,
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this book is a lot about vibes, like people have been saying that
you know, they you know,don't doesn't really have that much of a
plot, which well it's debatable,like what do you consider as plot,
but I mean, like it's notas action packed as a like what you
may expect from a novel. Theydon't really have like a climax and everything.
(26:07):
But it is very atmospheric, Iwould say, because reading it,
it just feels like, at leastto me, you know, sitting in
a bookshop in the Korean cafe,like you know, seeping American or something
like that, is this vite thatI want to keep, and which is
why when I translated it, thatwas at the top of my mind.
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And when one of the read whenreaders, like you know, they come
in and they say, oh,you know, when I read this,
it reminds me of the time Ispend in career and the cafes and the
bookshop, and that made me sohappy because it meant that, you know,
I kind of translated the vit prettywell, I would say, and
that's kind of like, you know, it's able to connect with the readers.
(26:53):
And when we talk about like transliteration, I think that I don't really
have a fixed answer for that too, but in general I think I like
to make the reader's work a littlebit and that is one of the joys
of reading translated fiction because we arein somesance. I'm looking for something different,
something a little bit unfamiliar, SoI tend to keep a bit more
(27:19):
Korean words in the translation, especiallywith human I'm down like I, for
example, you were talking about likethe bookie or like food items, I
tend to transliterate. I will justlive it as it is and not,
you know, yeah, not tryto kind of like over explain an overglass.
(27:40):
But whenever I lead a word inlike a Korean word inside this story,
I always make sure that I googleto check whether it's easy pretty easy
for the reader to access. Andif I google, and you know,
the first search result is that themeaning, I would just be so happy
(28:02):
to just like live it inside.But I think that is something that I've
been thinking about the soul, likewhether do I want to transliterate like you
know, all these food items andkinship terms for example, like omni or
barkiong, et cetera, talking aboutlike your older sister, older brothers,
et cetera. Like do I wantto keep it in all my translation?
That what I do not actually havean answer for it, because I think
(28:23):
it really depends on the vibes ofthe novel. And when it comes to
food items, there are I guess, more popular Korean food items like the
boogie, peeping barb, kimchi,et cetera. But what if I have,
you know, like one day I'mtranslating something and it's like pixel or
(28:45):
like toy Towne or something that isnot earlier to the English reader, that
would I really want to keep thatin Yeah, So I do not really
have an answer for dead and Ifeel that every novel is a bit different,
So I would go with my instincton what was the best for that
papicular novel and for you now,don't I really want to keep the Korean
(29:07):
vibes in it? Which is whyI ended up putting in a lot.
For sure, it sounds like youmade a lot of choices, Like literally
with every single word that you translated, you made a choice to put it
there, Seanna, thank you.That's really interesting. And something else we
wanted to discuss and explore a bitis that like, readers are interpreters of
(29:29):
text, right, and when weread, there are always underlying biases,
biases that we bring to our owninterpretations of the text, and they're different
from reader to reader. So thisis why book clubs and book forums and
reading groups exist because through that methodof discussion and interaction and discourse about the
same narrative piece, people are ableto understand other people's different viewpoints. So
(29:56):
Seana, do you think your individualinterpretation of the text influence the product of
the translation, Like, in otherwords, are there ways where your own
biases might have affected the way thatyou rewrote the book in the English?
Yeah? So I would say,of course, because if you give the
same text to ten different translators,you would come back with them pretty much
(30:18):
completely different texts. And I thinkthat is all for like the classics,
you would see, like you know, over the years, different translators have
worked on the same texts, andit's going to look quite different, and
especially if the text is the kindthat is a little bit more open to
interpretation. But I would really callit bias, but biases. But it's
(30:40):
more like when you translate, yourown voice definitely goes into the text,
and that is because of the choicesI make, and every single choice I
make is going to make a difference. And when you're reading a translated yeah
text, you are actually reading thevery close read of me. Yeah.
(31:03):
I keep reading the book and whatI interpret and debt is what you will
see. So another translator you wouldget something different. But I think that
is the fun of it is Shauna. As a translator, I'm assuming you
have to work with many bureaucratic bodiesto get funding for your projects and to
understand the reader's market that you're translatingfor. Have you experienced any hurdles or
(31:27):
hardships along the way, and arethere any support networks for translators that you
can lean on. Yeah, Ithink when we all do what we do
with that administrator, stuff is reallyhard, no matter what few and industry
you work in. But I feelgrateful debt at least death is funding available
(31:48):
because, like I work from differentlanguages and for example, Korean is known
to be pretty well funded, andI think debt is great and as well
support network. Yeah, literary translationcan be quite a lonely activity, but
I'm very grateful that I have likegreat colleagues and friends that we swat with
(32:13):
and you know, we ask eachother's questions, we help each other look
get things, and to me,dead is really a huge part of the
joy of literary translation, like youknow, getting to know fellow colleagues and
having a strong support network. SoI have friends that I would swat with
every month. That sounds so fun. My next question is Korea's population are
(32:37):
generally very well educated, and yetwomen are often still seen as second class
citizens, even though they may bejust as capable and educated as their male
counterparts. So a lot of literaturecoming out of Korea in the modern age
isn't always super upbeat or you know, chill, like this novel with Hunam
(33:00):
Dong. And I think that alot of the social tensions that are felt
among younger Koreans and women especially havebeen well represented in the books that are
coming out of Korea in recent years, such as Cho Nam jews Kim Jiong
born in nineteen eighty two, whichis a book that reflects on misogyny through
(33:22):
the lens of a middle class,well educated woman. I wonder if you've
heard of this book and how youthink it compares to Welcome to the Human
Dom Bookshop, which is also kindof about a middle class woman. Yeah.
So I read Kin Ziong born innineteen eighty two, and I have
(33:42):
but both in English and the Koreanedition. So for that one, I
feel that it's a lot more aboutfeminism. It's about sexism, gender discrimination
throughout the cause of the life ofa woman, and there's a little bit
of that in hunam Dong too,particularly in Timmy's story. So Timmy is
a coffee roaster and she is,yeah, she had uh, she has
(34:07):
a difficult marriage. And then likethis bit about her in her story when
they were talking about how women hassuffered a lot taking care of their husbands,
calling them like men child and there'sthis expectations of women to paradize family
and child raising. But on theother hand, like, you know,
she herself is successful and that makeslike, you know, the husband feels
(34:28):
a bit useless in that sense.So there is this like, you know,
gender tension that is a little bitin humane. I don't, but
I think in general, focuses alot about what it means to live in
modern society, to grapple with work, career expectations. Of course, there
is this bit of like gender thatis in all these like different teams,
(34:51):
but I think it's a little bitbroader, and it's also more philosophic goal
in general, and it's like topicis that you would engage me regardless of
your gender. So it's a bitbroader in that sense. But I think
these two books they compliment well witheach other, and it's kind of like
(35:14):
giving you a better sense of howlike Korean modern society is like to wrap
up, Seanna, can you givelisteners like one can't one or two can't
miss books that they should they shouldtrack down, either in the original Korean
or in an English translation. Somy favorite is actually Another Person by Kangqua
Guil translated by Claire Richards. Soit's feminist thriller and it pigs like toxic
(35:40):
masculinity and living as a woman inSouth Korean society. So for fans or
people who love like King Jong bornin nineteen eighty two, this is a
master week both. And another onethat I really enjoyed is called I'm Waiting
for You and Other Stories by KimBoyong translate by Sophie Bowman and Songliu,
(36:01):
and it's actually speculative fiction and twopairs of thematically interconnected stories about humanity and
the very meaning of existence. Sothe two completely different gendres. But I
think those who are like new toKorean literature translated fiction might try this too,
(36:22):
book, so highly recommend it.Wow, I'm writing those down and
I just sorry I had to runoff screen for a second because in one
of the sort of like take abook for free, libraries on the streets
in Montreal. I was just havinga peek and I found the whole by
here Young Peong, which is yes, I read it so it looked good.
I was like, oh, aKorean take on misery Stephen King's Misery.
(36:45):
So it sounds terrifying, but becauseof the inspiration for this episode,
I am excited to read the wholeby here Young. Shannatan's the translator of
one Quotum smash hit novel Welcome tothe Hell I'm Donk Bookshop. She joined
us from Singapore today. Find itat your local independent bookstore. Shanna,
thanks a lot for speaking with theKreafile, Thank you so much for having
(37:07):
me on your podcast, Thank youfor coming. And that's episode one hundred
and ten of The Korea File.Check out my other work, including my
progressive politics panel show Harbinger's Showcase atCanada's number one politically progressive podcast network,
(37:27):
Harbinger Media. Find out more aboutour community of more than sixty left politics
shows at harbingermediannetwork dot com and checkout Canad's progressivejournalism community on rig dot CAA,
which I also show run, andfollow me on Twitter at Andre Markgoli
special thanks to associate producer and researcherJenny Pimentel for her work on this episode.
This has been so cool listeners.You can find me on Twitter at
(37:49):
bb Jen. The Korea File hasbeen exploring Krean society, culture, and
politics since August twenty fourteen, andsupport from listeners like you helps cover costs
for broadcasting and distribution. This podcastis produced and assistant produced and research and
hosted for free with no institutional oracademic financial support. Listeners around the world
like you, so if you canafford just a few one a few dollars
(38:10):
a month, support our mission toshare Korean history and culture with international audience.
Go to patreon dot com, slashthe Korea File and throw us a
few bucks a month. We reallyappreciate it. Watch for our next episode,
dropping in April of this year.It'll be a conversation on what's like
to cover North Korea with journalist RobLawler from NK News. Until then,
I'm Andre Gula. Thanks for listening.
You're listening to The Korea File.I'm Andre Gula. The Korea File has
been exploring Korean society, culture andpolitics, and highlighting critical, independent voices
you won't find anywhere else since twentyfourteen. Find almost nine years of archived
episodes, including interviews with academics,activists, musicians, and more. Wherever
(00:24):
you get your podcasts, you cansupport the show at patreon dot com slash
the Korea File and on this episode, we'll be speaking with Shanna Tan,
the translator for Van Boom's smash hitbook Welcome to the Hymnam Dong Bookshop,
a slice of life novel about ahigh flying career woman in Soul who leaves
(00:47):
a life of burnout and marital miseryto open a bookshop in a small residential
neighborhood outside of the city. We'llalso be talking about the changing face of
contemporary literature on the Peninsula. Butfirst, as always, I'm here with
co host Jenny Pimentel in Toronto.Hi Jenny, Hey, Andre, Jenny.
I'm excited for our conversation with Shanna, but honestly, there's a lot
(01:08):
of bad news out of South Korealately. Did you know President yunsukiel is
still promising to take steps to abolishthe Ministry of Gender Equality and Family.
Oh my god. And to behonest, the really anti social doctor strike
happening right now in protest of thegovernment's proposal to raise the cap on the
number of medical students by two thousandhas already led to the death of like
(01:30):
a bunch of people. So thethings. To be honest, things are
not good. But I wanted tobegin this episode by highlighting probably the bad
news South Korea international news story ofthe month. This headline's from The Guardian.
Average number of births per woman fallsto zero point seven to two in
country that already has the world's lowestrate. Jenny, people are not having
(01:51):
babies anymore, are they? Yeah? No, they're definitely not. The
average number of children that a SouthKorean woman has in her lifetime fell to
zero point seven to two from zeropoint seven to eight a year ago.
That's an eight percent decline and accordingto data from Statistics Korea, which is
a government affiliated body, so thisis way below the two point one kids
(02:13):
that a country needs to maintain apopulation. And seth Cree's population is currently
fifty one million So basically, ifthe low fertility rate persists, the population
is going to be projected to almostdrop in half within the next seventy five
years. That's according to the Institutefor Health Metrics and Evaluation in Seattle at
the University of Washington. So notgood. Not good sounds like an emergency
(02:38):
situation. So what I thought wasinteresting though, was another story that came
up last week which kind of tellsthe story of why this is happening,
because, according to a recent reportcited in the excellent Blue Roof newsletter,
it's mostly rich people that are havingthe babies. Does that surprise you?
(03:00):
Check this out. The fact thatchildren have become in a lot of ways
luxury goods is part of what's goingon here. So according to a new
study out of Soul Women's University,the study showed that as the birth rate
falls, only rich people are havingkids. And the study took a sample
of one hundred households with a newbornbaby, categorize those households into three income
(03:23):
groups, low income meaning earning lessthan seventy five percent of the median and
middle income, and high income,and the results are really stark. Almost
fifty five percent of households with ababy belonged to the high income and only
eight point five percent belonged to thelow income. So, in other words,
more than half of all creating kidswere born into high income families.
(03:46):
That really shocked me. That isvery shocking. Anyways, it's grim,
but hopefully look for an episode examiningthis alarming South Korean demographic trend later this
year on the Koreaphile. It's definitelya story we'll be keeping our eye on,
definitely. But now let's turn thepage and dive into our topic on
this episode. Let's let's open thelibrary of Korean books, Denny. A
(04:11):
lot of the top shelf titles havebeen taking audiences by storm around the world
lately, and particularly in English translationsof Korean literature, isn't that right?
Yes, Korean books have recently gainedtons of popularity in the Western market.
I remember when I was a lotyounger, a couple of years ago,
hearing about the story Please Take Careof Mom by Keiol Musukshin, and that
(04:34):
was kind of my first exposure toKorean literature and translation. And there wasn't
a lot of variety outside of thatwhen I was growing up. But recently,
there have been a lot more options. I've seen tons of titles in
libraries and in bookshops, a varietyof genres like science fiction, and many
(04:56):
Korean women writers being translated into English, like and you might know one of
her titles, The Vegetarian, anothervery popular book. So this actually reminds
me that my sister was reading Pleasetake care of Mom, like back in
two thousand and I want to sayfifteen, when my sister, her partner,
(05:17):
their new baby, my niece,and my mother visited me and my
partner at the time on Jaju Island, and Mom was then reading the book
when they were visiting us, andit was sort of cute. It's like,
oh, please take care of Mom, and it's like my mom's there
and stuff and whatever. But then, oh my god, we messed up
because when we were back in Seoulwith the family, you know, after
(05:41):
Jju, like taking vacation, soulwaiting for the train, waiting for the
subway, and I get on withmy partner and my sister and her husband
and my niece and we turn andmy mom's like just a little slow,
and the doors close and we cansee her through, see her through the
glass, which is just like thethe most like uncanny thing to leave behind,
(06:02):
you know, a parent on thissoul metro system. So n luckily
we did like get off the nextstation we came back. Mom hadn't left,
thank god, and so it wasfine. But we didn't take care
of mom. Jenny is the point. So so anyways, this this episode
one hundred and ten of the Kreophile. On this episode, we wanted to
(06:24):
explore Korean literature by speaking with someonewho understands that world really well. She's
a literary translator of the best sellingnovel from Huangbodom. It's called Welcome to
the Hilnam Dong Bookshop. It's soldmore than two hundred thousand copies in Korea
and around the world. Wow,those are some big numbers for sure.
So without further ado, please welcomeShauna ten. She translated Welcome to the
(06:48):
Hyunan Dome Bookshop into English and hasworked in literary translation for about two years.
Shawna, Welcome to the Koreaphile.Thank you Andrea and Jenny for inviting
me to the podcast. We're reallyhappy to have you here. So Shanna
tell us about the book. What'slike the elevator pitch. How would you
(07:09):
summarize Welcome to the Janna I'm DouneBookshop in just a few words. I
would say it's a warm hub inthe form of a book where you'll be
spending time in the bookshop, listeningto the conversations around you and contemplating what's
important about life, So things likehappeness, what does work mean to you?
(07:29):
And what does success mean to you? So just like how we have
our own comfort food. To me, this is a very comforting read something
that I would reach out to fromtime to time, especially if I feel
like I need a little bit amotivation, something that like, you know,
I want someone to listen to theworries that I have, and I
(07:49):
think this will be the perfect bookfor that. Okay, So your first
impressions when you read the book werebasically like you felt like you were being
invited into this world and was veryand very nice. Okay, that's awesome.
So how did you connect with theproject and translating hum I'm Done Bookshop?
And what was the experience like translatingthe book. This is quite interesting
(08:11):
because like for translated fiction, alot of times it's picked up by the
English publishers through different means. Sosometimes it's the literary translator who pitched the
book directly to the editor, andsometimes the editor might have heard about the
book, especially if it's like,you know, doing very well in its
(08:33):
home country. And for this oneon the editor at Blwsbury they already heard
of this human Welcome to the Humanumdone bookshop. They because it's being represented
by a literary agent from career.So I think they saw the catalog and
(08:54):
they found that, oh, youknow, this sounds like perfect, you
know, very heartwarming, and thetitle, I mean, it's a book
about bookshop, and I think thereis a gendure that a lot of us
are into, you know, it'sreal readers. So they wanted to know
a little bit more about, youknow, what this book exactly is,
and they wanted to commission a sampleand also like a book report, so
(09:16):
really the full burn story, likethe whole sypnosis. And I was recommended
to the editor by my mentor,who is Anton Her and he I think
everyone who reads translated current literature willknow him. So yeah, so he
what was my mentor for this mentorshipprogram. It's under National Center for Writings
(09:39):
n CW Emerging Translator Mentorship, andso he recommended me to the editor and
so I worked on it and afterwardsthe editor really liked this book and I
ended up working on this. Sothat was how I connected to this project,
which is a little bit different frommy pitching. It direct lead to
(10:00):
the editives. And I'm really interestedto hear that it's a book for people
who like books. I mean,I love libraries. I love used bookstores,
I love book bookstores. Like that'samazing. Yeah, I love that.
Yeah, Shanna, So a littlebit more about yourself. You just
mentioned that Anton hr is one ofyour mentors. That's a big name drop,
very impressive. But before you wentinto that institute for translation, I
(10:26):
just wanted to ask you, howdid you get into translating from Korean,
Japanese and Chinese into English. I'mactually Singaporean and I grew up bilingual in
English and Chinese. But but then, even though you know, I have
two languages since young, I neverreally thought about translation. You know,
(10:48):
it's just some it's just the languagesthat I use in my daily life.
I don't really think so much.And it's only when Korean and Japanese came
into my life that it really changedthe trajectory of my life. It's not
even being kind of like as Aguaryday. It really changed my entire life
and also a lot of my lifechoices. And so I started self studying
(11:11):
Korean like about fifteen years ago,and Japanese about I think twelve years And
when after I started learning those languages, I just looked at languages in a
different way, like last time.To me, English and Chinese were probably
just you know, subjects that youare forced to study at school, so
(11:35):
I didn't really have, you know, that stronger relationship with languages. But
after I started learning foreign languages,then naturally I end up reading a lot
more in those languages and like discoveringa whole brand new world of literature.
And back then I was like,oh, you know, these are amazing
(11:56):
books. I wish more people canbe it. Then I think like that
was when the seed of like literarytranslation was like planted in me, and
but with a lot of things likeIt's something that I was interested in,
but I didn't really act on it. And it was only when I read
Anton Hurst translation of The Cord Dancerby Consulp Shit that I fell in love
(12:24):
with literary translation. Yeah, sothat was how I was very inspired by
that, because it just reads sobeautifully to me. And because of that,
I ended up seeing translated fiction asa gendre on its own, and
sol and I started reading a lotmore. And previously because I can speak,
(12:48):
you know, I can read inJapanese and Korean and English and Chinese,
so sometimes I would just gravitate naturallytowards the sauce additions. But after
reading his translation, I kind ofsee literary translation as a john job,
as porn. And these days,even though I could read the sauce text,
I sometimes would choose, in factto read the English translation of those
(13:13):
I'm so surprised, and I justlove how there's these threads of linguistics and
language behind translation. I think thecivilian or like the outsider, might not
always think about all this stuff inthe background, but I love hearing that.
Thank you, Shauna, Jenny.Let's talk about themes. You had
an interesting question to pursue talking aboutthe themes of this book. I did,
so I actually read the book.I read it in the English translation,
(13:37):
the one that you wrote, Shauna, and I also read a bit
of it in the source text,and I just thought it was really interesting
seeing like the similarities and differences inthe actual language bits. But overall,
the themes I think presented were reallywell translated in your translation of the book.
And there were just tons of themesin this book, very kind of
(14:03):
sentimental and relatable to myself, kindof like self growth, grief and loss
of friends and family, stress andburnout from overwork, and company culture and
so much more. And I thinkit was really through the characters in this
book, like jung Ju the bookshopowner, min Jun the barista, Tungs
(14:26):
the frequenting customer, and so on, that we discovered these themes. It
was really through seeing them interact andhaving internal dialogues or internal monologues that we
saw their perspectives of the world andhow their actions and desires embodied this longing
(14:48):
for human connection and finding life purposeand finding community as well. I think
this book is really driven by theseemotions and these passions of wanting to live
that independent life and to chase yourdreams, which really contrasts with the profit
driven, fast paced society that thecharacters live in. So, Shanna,
(15:11):
how do you think these themes landto Korean readers in the context of South
Korean society, which is so muchdriven by like success in work, and
how might it land in other countrieswith similar dog eat dog capitalist cultures.
No. I think that this bothdid so well also because they go right
(15:35):
deep into the issues that Koreans aregrappling with these days. So, for
example, Tonso how she remains asa contract worker for so long, denied
a permanent position, And my understandingis that that'sposed. Having like a permanent
position a role in Korean companies isvery important because then you get assessed to
(15:58):
like the full national insurance, pensionbenefits, et cetera. But these days,
like a lot of Korean companies,they choose to rely on contract workers,
and this means that you don't havejob stability, and there is this
idea that contract work may not seemas I guess a subsist, prestigious or
(16:22):
like you know, stable, asa full time, permanent position. So
this is a common topic that isbeing explored and a lot of Korean novels
that I've read, So I thinkthis is why this boat really speaks to
how Koreans are feeling right now.Yeah, So, for personally, I
(16:45):
would say that Men Jun's story reallytouched me the most, and because you
know, in Singapore, we arealso living in a similarly competitive society whereby
it's very pragmatic and there is avery fixed definition of success. And I
(17:06):
think like that it's a similar kindof culture in a lot of Asian societies.
And so which is why I thinkI've seen a lot of readers from
Southeast Asia and North aest Asia's commentingabout how they really relate to a lot
of the themes that are in thisstory. So back to like Menjrin's story,
(17:27):
it touched me the most because itfeels the most like my own story,
because like one of my favorite chaptersin the book is this chapter called
Buttons without Poles, and it startedoff talking about this Korean saying that life's
(17:48):
off to a good start after youdo up the first button, and usually
the first button is referred to like, you know, getting into a good
university, and after you get intoa good university, it feels like life
will be smooth sailing that you know, you're kind of guaranteed a pretty good
job after that, you know,and then like everything will kind of like
(18:11):
fall in place. And this isthat like saying was something that when I
started learning Korean and I learned thisin Korean, I was like feeling very
inspired by it, because you know, we want to feel as if hard
work we will definitely get us somewhere. So to me, like that was
very motivating. But when I readMinjin's story, it felt like that in
(18:37):
the end became something that was aburden to him because like he did all
these things, like you know,he got into a good university, but
he couldn't get a job. Andthen it was a little bit similar to
my own journey as well, becauseyeah, you know, this saying kind
of like motivated me throughout the fouryears in university and I did linguistics for
(19:00):
my bachelor's degree and the Singapore thatwas, yeah, that is something that
is pretty uncommon, and you know, there's this idea that because you come
from a humanity background, it's veryhard for you to get a job.
So that was exactly the whole trajectoryof how what I went through. And
also, you know, for awhile in this story, he's like lost,
(19:22):
he's not shown what to do.He didn't really like coffee that much
when he signed up to be aBARRISTERA And I think that is what a
lot of us relate to also thatyou know, when we go into a
job, do we really like it? How many of us can really say
that we are doing what we likeand even if we are, are we
really happy? So right now,for me literary translation, it's also something
(19:47):
that I'm exploring and I don't knowwhere it's going to take me. But
sometimes when I feel a little bitlike unsure about myself and where I'm going,
I kind of like returned to certainchapters in the book and seeing how
the characters are also going through similarissues, it kind of comforts me a
(20:08):
lot. Yeah, because I wouldsay that this book a lot of times
it's about characters that are at acrossroad. They're in the middle of something,
and that is why a lot allof us would relate to it because
usually we are not at starting something, We are not at the end of
the journey. We are always inthe middle. And that's also the time
(20:30):
where we have a lot of questionsin our mind, like you know,
am I doing okay? Is thisreally the right path for me? And
this book just feels like a friendthat you know telling you that, oh
you know all of us, weare all going through the same thing.
You are not alone. So Ithink that is why it's receiving a lot
(20:51):
of love from readers in different countries. And there are also people who come
from I guess like less stressful societies, and to them they see it as,
oh, that is actually a verynew or interesting way that people think
about work in a society that is, you know, completely different from where
(21:12):
they come from. So I liketo see how different people are engaging with
the novel in different ways. AndI think this is the kind of read
where you end up reflecting a lotalongside the characters and hearing, yeah,
hearing hearing this sort of description ofthe book. It makes me think about
(21:34):
how in an era of late capitalism, a lot of a lot of the
bad vibes are because people are reallydisappointed because yeah, they were kind of
told things would be a different wayand it's not that way. And so
I was curious when Jenny and Iwere kind of exploring some questions to speak
with you about in this interview ifwe could be making a connection between some
(21:56):
of the other Korean culture that's reallyhad a broad international impact. And I
was thinking, like Squid Game,which is very much a you know,
bloody Netflix series about about dogg eatdog capitalism and parasites, which is like
another brutal in a completely different way, but the Oscar winning bun June Home
(22:18):
movie. But hearing you talk aboutit like this, this seems like such
a different kind of book because it'sa book that comforts people and gives them
like a different kind of escapism,which I think is really really lovely.
Actually, Jenny, let's move onto question number six. Can you can
you explore a little bit more aboutthe gap and translation? Yeah, so
(22:40):
this is something that I am reallyinterested in as someone who is bilingual.
How do you work around a gapin translation? And any listeners who are
bilingual as well will have encountered this. But to translate something word for word
is such a typic thing, especiallywhen it comes to culturally specific concepts,
(23:03):
things that aren't so easily translatable.When you try to explain it in another
language, it can get so convolutedand confusing. So yeah, I've read
many translated works and seen a coupleof different approaches that authors will take.
Either translators will try to find anequivalent in the language of translation, or
(23:27):
they will just transliterate. What's transliterate, Jenny, Oh, so all right,
So basically transliterate would be you takingthe word and spelling it out in
the language of translation instead of findingan equivalent word. So, for example,
if you take the booky translating it, you would get something like spicy
(23:51):
rice cake. But a transliteration wouldjust be if you spelled out the book.
Yeah, so I guess with transliterationand you kind of make the reader
do a little more work or expectthat the reader has a bit more background
in the language. But Seana,what is your perspective on this and how
do you approach this dilemma of gapsand translation. Yeah, some of the
(24:17):
languages I work from and currently rightnow it's mainly Korean and Chinese. It's
they are very different from English.So let's just take like Korean. Korean,
the would order itself is completely different. So the verbs for Korean goals
at the end, while in Englishit's like in the buddle. So because
(24:38):
of the difference it would order,it's like, for example, a sentence
like sometimes the emotional payoffs at theback. In Korean it kind of like
boots up the suspense and it's atthe end. But then if you want
to translate it into English, andyou have to think a little bit more
(24:59):
work, a little bit the morething of like creative solutions to see how
you can maintain that kind of pacingthat you know you don't want things to
maybe yeah, you want to payoff to still be at the back.
So it's like completely impossible to dolike work forward translation anyway that we shouldn't
be doing that. And also likeI like to think of what jeremediang are
(25:22):
translated from Chinese than to English,would say that we always called jeremediang like
it says like you know, oh, we don't translate words, we translate
vibes. So that to me islike one of yeah, it's like a
very important thing in my own translationapproach it. So and also for example,
(25:44):
this book is a lot about vibes, like people have been saying that
you know, they you know,don't doesn't really have that much of a
plot, which well it's debatable,like what do you consider as plot,
but I mean, like it's notas action packed as a like what you
may expect from a novel. Theydon't really have like a climax and everything.
(26:07):
But it is very atmospheric, Iwould say, because reading it,
it just feels like, at leastto me, you know, sitting in
a bookshop in the Korean cafe,like you know, seeping American or something
like that, is this vite thatI want to keep, and which is
why when I translated it, thatwas at the top of my mind.
(26:30):
And when one of the read whenreaders, like you know, they come
in and they say, oh,you know, when I read this,
it reminds me of the time Ispend in career and the cafes and the
bookshop, and that made me sohappy because it meant that, you know,
I kind of translated the vit prettywell, I would say, and
that's kind of like, you know, it's able to connect with the readers.
(26:53):
And when we talk about like transliteration, I think that I don't really
have a fixed answer for that too, but in general I think I like
to make the reader's work a littlebit and that is one of the joys
of reading translated fiction because we arein somesance. I'm looking for something different,
something a little bit unfamiliar, SoI tend to keep a bit more
(27:19):
Korean words in the translation, especiallywith human I'm down like I, for
example, you were talking about likethe bookie or like food items, I
tend to transliterate. I will justlive it as it is and not,
you know, yeah, not tryto kind of like over explain an overglass.
(27:40):
But whenever I lead a word inlike a Korean word inside this story,
I always make sure that I googleto check whether it's easy pretty easy
for the reader to access. Andif I google, and you know,
the first search result is that themeaning, I would just be so happy
(28:02):
to just like live it inside.But I think that is something that I've
been thinking about the soul, likewhether do I want to transliterate like you
know, all these food items andkinship terms for example, like omni or
barkiong, et cetera, talking aboutlike your older sister, older brothers,
et cetera. Like do I wantto keep it in all my translation?
That what I do not actually havean answer for it, because I think
(28:23):
it really depends on the vibes ofthe novel. And when it comes to
food items, there are I guess, more popular Korean food items like the
boogie, peeping barb, kimchi,et cetera. But what if I have,
you know, like one day I'mtranslating something and it's like pixel or
(28:45):
like toy Towne or something that isnot earlier to the English reader, that
would I really want to keep thatin Yeah, So I do not really
have an answer for dead and Ifeel that every novel is a bit different,
So I would go with my instincton what was the best for that
papicular novel and for you now,don't I really want to keep the Korean
(29:07):
vibes in it? Which is whyI ended up putting in a lot.
For sure, it sounds like youmade a lot of choices, Like literally
with every single word that you translated, you made a choice to put it
there, Seanna, thank you.That's really interesting. And something else we
wanted to discuss and explore a bitis that like, readers are interpreters of
(29:29):
text, right, and when weread, there are always underlying biases,
biases that we bring to our owninterpretations of the text, and they're different
from reader to reader. So thisis why book clubs and book forums and
reading groups exist because through that methodof discussion and interaction and discourse about the
same narrative piece, people are ableto understand other people's different viewpoints. So
(29:56):
Seana, do you think your individualinterpretation of the text influence the product of
the translation, Like, in otherwords, are there ways where your own
biases might have affected the way thatyou rewrote the book in the English?
Yeah? So I would say,of course, because if you give the
same text to ten different translators,you would come back with them pretty much
(30:18):
completely different texts. And I thinkthat is all for like the classics,
you would see, like you know, over the years, different translators have
worked on the same texts, andit's going to look quite different, and
especially if the text is the kindthat is a little bit more open to
interpretation. But I would really callit bias, but biases. But it's
(30:40):
more like when you translate, yourown voice definitely goes into the text,
and that is because of the choicesI make, and every single choice I
make is going to make a difference. And when you're reading a translated yeah
text, you are actually reading thevery close read of me. Yeah.
(31:03):
I keep reading the book and whatI interpret and debt is what you will
see. So another translator you wouldget something different. But I think that
is the fun of it is Shauna. As a translator, I'm assuming you
have to work with many bureaucratic bodiesto get funding for your projects and to
understand the reader's market that you're translatingfor. Have you experienced any hurdles or
(31:27):
hardships along the way, and arethere any support networks for translators that you
can lean on. Yeah, Ithink when we all do what we do
with that administrator, stuff is reallyhard, no matter what few and industry
you work in. But I feelgrateful debt at least death is funding available
(31:48):
because, like I work from differentlanguages and for example, Korean is known
to be pretty well funded, andI think debt is great and as well
support network. Yeah, literary translationcan be quite a lonely activity, but
I'm very grateful that I have likegreat colleagues and friends that we swat with
(32:13):
and you know, we ask eachother's questions, we help each other look
get things, and to me,dead is really a huge part of the
joy of literary translation, like youknow, getting to know fellow colleagues and
having a strong support network. SoI have friends that I would swat with
every month. That sounds so fun. My next question is Korea's population are
(32:37):
generally very well educated, and yetwomen are often still seen as second class
citizens, even though they may bejust as capable and educated as their male
counterparts. So a lot of literaturecoming out of Korea in the modern age
isn't always super upbeat or you know, chill, like this novel with Hunam
(33:00):
Dong. And I think that alot of the social tensions that are felt
among younger Koreans and women especially havebeen well represented in the books that are
coming out of Korea in recent years, such as Cho Nam jews Kim Jiong
born in nineteen eighty two, whichis a book that reflects on misogyny through
(33:22):
the lens of a middle class,well educated woman. I wonder if you've
heard of this book and how youthink it compares to Welcome to the Human
Dom Bookshop, which is also kindof about a middle class woman. Yeah.
So I read Kin Ziong born innineteen eighty two, and I have
(33:42):
but both in English and the Koreanedition. So for that one, I
feel that it's a lot more aboutfeminism. It's about sexism, gender discrimination
throughout the cause of the life ofa woman, and there's a little bit
of that in hunam Dong too,particularly in Timmy's story. So Timmy is
a coffee roaster and she is,yeah, she had uh, she has
(34:07):
a difficult marriage. And then likethis bit about her in her story when
they were talking about how women hassuffered a lot taking care of their husbands,
calling them like men child and there'sthis expectations of women to paradize family
and child raising. But on theother hand, like, you know,
she herself is successful and that makeslike, you know, the husband feels
(34:28):
a bit useless in that sense.So there is this like, you know,
gender tension that is a little bitin humane. I don't, but
I think in general, focuses alot about what it means to live in
modern society, to grapple with work, career expectations. Of course, there
is this bit of like gender thatis in all these like different teams,
(34:51):
but I think it's a little bitbroader, and it's also more philosophic goal
in general, and it's like topicis that you would engage me regardless of
your gender. So it's a bitbroader in that sense. But I think
these two books they compliment well witheach other, and it's kind of like
(35:14):
giving you a better sense of howlike Korean modern society is like to wrap
up, Seanna, can you givelisteners like one can't one or two can't
miss books that they should they shouldtrack down, either in the original Korean
or in an English translation. Somy favorite is actually Another Person by Kangqua
Guil translated by Claire Richards. Soit's feminist thriller and it pigs like toxic
(35:40):
masculinity and living as a woman inSouth Korean society. So for fans or
people who love like King Jong bornin nineteen eighty two, this is a
master week both. And another onethat I really enjoyed is called I'm Waiting
for You and Other Stories by KimBoyong translate by Sophie Bowman and Songliu,
(36:01):
and it's actually speculative fiction and twopairs of thematically interconnected stories about humanity and
the very meaning of existence. Sothe two completely different gendres. But I
think those who are like new toKorean literature translated fiction might try this too,
(36:22):
book, so highly recommend it.Wow, I'm writing those down and
I just sorry I had to runoff screen for a second because in one
of the sort of like take abook for free, libraries on the streets
in Montreal. I was just havinga peek and I found the whole by
here Young Peong, which is yes, I read it so it looked good.
I was like, oh, aKorean take on misery Stephen King's Misery.
(36:45):
So it sounds terrifying, but becauseof the inspiration for this episode,
I am excited to read the wholeby here Young. Shannatan's the translator of
one Quotum smash hit novel Welcome tothe Hell I'm Donk Bookshop. She joined
us from Singapore today. Find itat your local independent bookstore. Shanna,
thanks a lot for speaking with theKreafile, Thank you so much for having
(37:07):
me on your podcast, Thank youfor coming. And that's episode one hundred
and ten of The Korea File.Check out my other work, including my
progressive politics panel show Harbinger's Showcase atCanada's number one politically progressive podcast network,
(37:27):
Harbinger Media. Find out more aboutour community of more than sixty left politics
shows at harbingermediannetwork dot com and checkout Canad's progressivejournalism community on rig dot CAA,
which I also show run, andfollow me on Twitter at Andre Markgoli
special thanks to associate producer and researcherJenny Pimentel for her work on this episode.
This has been so cool listeners.You can find me on Twitter at
(37:49):
bb Jen. The Korea File hasbeen exploring Krean society, culture, and
politics since August twenty fourteen, andsupport from listeners like you helps cover costs
for broadcasting and distribution. This podcastis produced and assistant produced and research and
hosted for free with no institutional oracademic financial support. Listeners around the world
like you, so if you canafford just a few one a few dollars
(38:10):
a month, support our mission toshare Korean history and culture with international audience.
Go to patreon dot com, slashthe Korea File and throw us a
few bucks a month. We reallyappreciate it. Watch for our next episode,
dropping in April of this year.It'll be a conversation on what's like
to cover North Korea with journalist RobLawler from NK News. Until then,
I'm Andre Gula. Thanks for listening.
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