- Andy Hemmings is the guest host this and talks with Real Estate Attorney Jonathan Vernon.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Dana Simmons show here on kov I. This is Andy
Hemmings and I am the guest host today from Capital Title.
Really appreciate you'll tuning in and wanted to say hello
to Dana and her team. Dana took the day off today.
She is with her grand baby for her birthday party.
So have a wonderful time with your beautiful family today, Dana.
(00:22):
And it's just an honor to be here hosting your
show for you. So we have a guest with us today,
mister Jonathan Vernon from the law office of Jonathan Vernon,
and he's a local real estate attorney. He is a
good customer of Capital Title. We utilize him a lot,
and we've got a lot to talk about in regards
to real estate law and specifically with estate planning. So
(00:47):
call in if you have any questions about a state
planning because you've got a very very good attorney here
to ask questions. And our call in number is four
O nine eight nine six five five eight four four
nine eight nine six kov I. So, without further ado, Jonathan,
welcome to the show.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
Well, thank you for having me.
Speaker 1 (01:05):
Yeah, this is your second tecond time on the show.
It might be my third might be a third. Okay,
so he has been a somewhat a regular, a regular,
and I know that a couple of times you've been
here before, we've had some really good people that have called,
some good questions that people called in to talk to
you about. Yeah, so if you would just give us
(01:26):
a high level view of what the service that you
the services that you offer as a real estate attorney.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
So I'm primarily an estate planning and probate attorney, which
is dealing with death basically planning for it and then
executing the plan or dealing with the lack of plan
once someone does pass away. Yeah, also incapacity in a
bunch of other issues. But you said high level view. Yeah,
And because I do that, also do real estate because
(01:52):
what's the biggest assets someone has to deal with when
someone passes away. About ninety percent of the time, right,
it's the real estate, usually the home, but sometimes they
have additional real estate as well. Yeah, So if I'm
going to have to deal with that in the probate practice,
I'll might as well deal with it when it's not
in the probate practice. Yeah. And then I also do
(02:13):
entity work like LLCs and partnerships which if you're doing
real estate, you probably need to be doing that too anyway.
And if you're doing a state planning, you probably need
to be doing that anyway too.
Speaker 1 (02:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
So those three practice areas really converge together and work
well together. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
Got you and a lot of people overlook, you know,
or they put off this estate, especially the estate planning
aspect of it. We're going to dive into that and
talk about how to get involved in and how to
get started down that path. But you are located right
here in Beaumont, and you office downtown and you're working
on a new building downtown also, that's right, Yeah, very good.
(02:52):
So Law Office of Jonathan Vernon. Let's go ahead and
get your phone number out there too.
Speaker 2 (02:56):
It is four oh nine seven two seven for A
eight four seven and that is the office number, and
you can text it if you want to communicate by texts.
Speaker 1 (03:07):
Perfect, Thanks Jonathan, and so remember just call in today
four h nine eight nine sixty five five eight four
if you've got questions on estate planning, setting up a
business entity, or real estate related questions to Jonathan is
here to answer those questions. So, Jonathan, our involvement with
you at Capital Title mainly A lot of times has
(03:29):
to do with corrective work that has to be done
on you know, different maybe some different documents that you
had or deals that we're working on. So let's let's
kind of get in front of that.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
Though.
Speaker 1 (03:41):
If someone is looking to do some estate planning, what
are the first steps that they need to take?
Speaker 2 (03:47):
Well, the first step is to get in contact with
someone who can help you do an estate planning, like
an estate planning attorney. So call someone like me and
will guide you through the process. Okay, At the minimum,
I think most people need a will, a power of attorney,
and a medical power of attorney that prepares for if
(04:10):
you pass away, or if something happens to you and
you don't pass away, but you can no longer make decisions,
become incapacitated, yes, yeah, become incapacitated, yeah, you know, so
a will power of attorney, medical power of attorney. That's
exactly what my wife and I did sometime ago when
we met with an attorney. And those are the three
documents they did for us. And this was years ago,
(04:32):
and I went back and looked at him not too
long ago, and everything's still okay. I mean, what we
had set up. It's still in place, and so I'm
glad that we did that. A lot of people put
this off, though, and I know that firsthand because working
for the title company, when we sell a prop, when
we get a transaction, we get the title work back
(04:52):
somebody who was entitle they don't have a will, and
then there's a whole nother process we have to go through,
which we'll talk about, but I don't know, Jonathan. I
would say probably easily half of the transactions that we
have where there's an estate they didn't have a will,
probably even more than that. What do you think is
the reason people put it off? Nobody likes to think
about death. And you come into my office and I'll say, okay, Andy,
(05:16):
you want to leave everything to your wife, and if
your wife goes before you, you want to leave it
to your kids. Yeah, well what if your kids die first?
Well your grandchildren? Okay, well what if your grandchildren die
and they're your great grandchildren die? I ask you those
uncomfortable questions, and people don't want to be asked that
uncomfortable question. They don't want to think about it. But
you know, we're all going to die sometimes.
Speaker 1 (05:37):
That's one thing that's guaranteed.
Speaker 2 (05:38):
Like when people ask like, well, who can put you
in touch with to help get you business, It's like, well,
do you know anyone who's going to die or knows
someone who's going to die? Right, because almost everybody is
going to end up needing a will or you know
some sort of estate plan you can go around probate. Uh,
you know that's getting a little bit more complicated, but
(05:59):
you know a lot of people do that for various reasons. Yeah,
but everybody's going to die, and if they have stuff,
they're going to leave it to somebody, and having a
will sure beats not having a will if there's any problems.
Speaker 1 (06:15):
Yeah, and there's a saying that we have in the
title industry. If you don't have a will, the state
of Texas has one for you. And it's that law
of dissent and distribution. I believe it's called right.
Speaker 2 (06:26):
I've recently finished up an intestate estate in a situation
where not everybody could agree, so it had to be
a deependent administration. And I was looking at my hours
and it's been going on so long, my hours of
my billable rate has changed. But if today's rate, it
(06:47):
would have been like eleven thousand dollars, wow, to do
that estate. Yeah. But and it's gone on long enough
that my rate has changed like three times go.
Speaker 1 (06:59):
And if they would have just had a will, if they.
Speaker 2 (07:01):
Would have had a will, it would have been done.
And you know, depending on various factors like court time,
client cooperation, how busy I am, it would have been
done in a month to six months.
Speaker 1 (07:14):
Yeah, at a fraction a fraction for about Yeah. I
was going to say probably a couple couple thousand dollars
or so. And I know that that changes depending on
the situation.
Speaker 2 (07:24):
A quarter of the cost maybe.
Speaker 1 (07:26):
And a lot less headache for the family. And so
you said a couple of things that I'll will unpack
a little. You said, somebody died intestate, meaning they died
without it, without a will, and then there was conflict
within the family.
Speaker 2 (07:40):
In this situation, it wasn't so much conflict as that
two or three of the errors were miners. And well,
the Estates Code says a minor can agree to an
independent administration. Uh. Several judges say, well, that's not I
don't think that's in the best entry of the estate.
(08:01):
So I'm not going to do it.
Speaker 1 (08:02):
Okay. So let's let me let me, let me pause.
Right there, So the estates code says that the minor
somebody under the age of eighteen.
Speaker 2 (08:12):
Can of the age of twelve, I believe.
Speaker 1 (08:14):
Okay, between twelve and eighteen, that they can agree to
an independent administration, meaning without ju without a judge being involved. Right, basically, yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:25):
The judge is still involved, but barely barely.
Speaker 1 (08:28):
But others say, and there are judges out there that
disagree with that, and they say, nope, if there's a
minor involved, needs to be a dependent administration.
Speaker 2 (08:36):
And so it's not that the judges disagree with the
estate's code, it's that the state's code says it's up
to the judge. Oh okay, well that's within the judges discretion.
The judge isn't, you know, being lawless.
Speaker 1 (08:47):
I don't think I knew that. Well, okay, okay, And
so what becomes involved then when it's a dependent administration?
Let's okay, So let's let's take a family that you know,
you've got three kids, the last surviving parent died without
a will, let's say something like that. So what are
they what might they have to go through at that time?
Speaker 2 (09:07):
Okay? So I'll back up one step.
Speaker 1 (09:10):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (09:10):
The way we get to a dependent administration and not
an independent administration is if not everybody has capacity to agree,
or they're unwilling to agree on who should be in
charge and what powers they should have.
Speaker 1 (09:23):
And lack of capacity could be literally mentally incompetent or
a minor. Those are two two okay, all right.
Speaker 2 (09:30):
And so in that process nobody agrees. So you have
to do a dependent administration. If you need an administration,
sometimes you can verify this, but sometimes you don't need
an administration. An affidavit airship is all you need. And
a capital title will draw you up one if you're
come into a capital title for their transaction a lot
(09:51):
cheaper than I will.
Speaker 1 (09:52):
Yes, So thank you for saying that.
Speaker 2 (09:56):
Well, that's what I tell people who call me.
Speaker 1 (09:58):
You probably don't like to mess with them a whole lot,
any I.
Speaker 2 (10:00):
Mean, I'd be fine messing with them if Capital Title
couldn't do them for a quarter of the costs.
Speaker 1 (10:05):
Yeah, we got teams of attorneys, that's just.
Speaker 2 (10:06):
What they do. Yeah, And so you need an administration
for you know, because people can't agree, they're not going
to agree to sell the property or agree on a price.
So you need someone in charge. So basically the person
in charge is the judge. And so you have to
once that person gets appointed, they have to pay a
(10:28):
pay for a bond to make sure they're not going
to do the job improperly. Uh, they have to they
have all their duties as executor or well administrator because
they're not an executor in this case. And then for
there's maybe like eight things in the code that they're
allowed to do without the judge's permission. Everything else like
(10:49):
spend money, uh, sell the property, distribute the property to
the to the heirs.
Speaker 1 (10:55):
Judge even pick the real estate agent that they have
to hire the judge.
Speaker 2 (10:59):
The judge can, okay, pick the real state agent and
will if there's a dispute between you know, say one
one kid wants this real state agent and the other
kid wants that real estate agent and they're willing to
spend money on an attorney to fight about it, the
judge is going to pick the real state agent. Yeah.
But most of the time I've been able to get
(11:19):
the real estate agent that the person selling the property,
the person in charge who's been jointed wanted.
Speaker 1 (11:26):
Okay, all right, we are going to take what we
just dove right off into it there, man, and we
got so much more to talk about. We are going
to take a quick break, but I want to give
you this phone number again four O nine eight nine
six five five eight four four O nine eight nine
six klv I. If you have any questions for Attorney
Jonathan Vernon with the Law Office of Jonathan Vernon in
(11:47):
regards to handling your estate particularly, but any other questions
you may have about maybe setting up a business entity,
We're here for you. This is Andy Hemmings, guest host
for the Dana Simmons Show, and we'll be right back.
Welcome back to the Dana Simmons Show. This is Andy
Hemmings and I am with capital title and our guest
(12:09):
today is mister attorney Jonathan Vernon, And right now we
are talking about a states and wills and what happens
when you pass away without a will. And Jonathan, I
think that you, you know, just to kind of recap,
you mentioned how important it is to get a will
power of attorney and a medical power of attorney. So
(12:31):
let's let's talk a little bit about that, if you will.
Let's talk about powers of attorney and why that's important
in a state planning.
Speaker 2 (12:39):
Okay, all right, So a power of attorney is basically
a document that says this person can act on my behalf.
And the reason that's important is because something might happen
to you where you cannot act in your own interests
and you need to. People generally need to do things.
That's that's how life works. And if you're dealing with
(13:02):
third parties and they don't, aren't just going to go
along with the son saying well mom wants this, which
most institutions won't. You need to If you don't have
that power of attorney for mom, you need to go
to the court and get a guardianship of the estate,
which is insanely burdensome on the person doing it and costly. Yes,
so I recommend no one get a power of attorney
(13:23):
and I can make just a ton of money.
Speaker 1 (13:25):
Yeah, because a guardianship is do you make a lot
more money?
Speaker 2 (13:29):
Yeah, you make a whole lot more money, Yeah, at
least ten times getting it started, and then there's annual
things you have to do to stay in it.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:38):
So I'm jokingly say, don't get it. I just want
to make that clear to the listeners.
Speaker 1 (13:42):
Yeah. That and the power of attorney. It's not. It's
definitely a very cost effective document. It doesn't you know,
it's not real, real expensive to the whole thing. The
will power of attorney, medical power of attorney relatively inexpensive
to get that set up.
Speaker 2 (13:57):
It's a lot cheaper than not getting it and needing it.
Speaker 1 (14:00):
Yeah, yeah, I remember one situation, and and furthermore, it's
important to keep that original power of attorney or go
ahead and record it. And this is speaking from the
title company perspective that when we have a transaction where
the parties, one of the parties assigned using a power
of attorney, we're going to need that original to record
(14:25):
to to to basically, but because that's what makes it,
I guess legally binding is the Yeah, it is the
right way to put it. I remember one situation where
I was dealing with the child of a woman. She
was she was in an Alzheimer's unit, and so the
child was dealing with the with the with her her
sales the sales needs there, and they couldn't find they
(14:46):
couldn't find the original power of attorney. All we had
was a copy, and he ended up having to set
up a guardianship for her because of that, and because
we have to have the original and to prevent fraud.
You know, there's a lot of fraud out there with
powers of attorney.
Speaker 2 (14:59):
And the thing is is the county will not record
a document that's not an original.
Speaker 1 (15:05):
That's right, thank you. Yes, that's why it's important and
it has to be recorded. So if you're you know,
listening out there and you have a power of attorney,
make sure you have the original and you can go
ahead and record it. Now, there's nothing to prevent you
from record.
Speaker 2 (15:19):
You can always record it. The reason not to record
it is you're worried about privacy.
Speaker 1 (15:23):
Well, yeah, find out your business.
Speaker 2 (15:24):
Yeah. One thing you could do is Texas has a
lot of counties. You can just record it in some
far off county. Yeah, make sure everyone who needs to
do was recorded there, and then you can get certified copies,
which are the one thing you can record that's not
an original.
Speaker 1 (15:40):
Yeah, that's a great point. I never thought about that.
Just recorded in another county where nobody knows, you keep
your privacy. And then as you mentioned, then we as
the title company, we just get a certified copy from
that county and recorded in the county where the property
is being sold. Yeah, great idea.
Speaker 2 (15:57):
All right, occasionally I have those.
Speaker 1 (16:03):
You know what, going back to the wills here, do
you ever run into situations where the family is in
disagreement about the will, where there's where the wills are
being contested, and if so, when, like, under what circumstances
do you see that?
Speaker 2 (16:16):
So one of the circumstances you see that is there's
a lost will, and a will is kind of like
that power of attorney. You need the original. You can
probate a copy, but there's a legal presumption that if
the original's gone, it was revoked. It's pretty much a
weak presumption that judges have over the years kind of
(16:37):
done away with appellate courts, so it's not a strong presumption.
But if you don't have a will, the original will,
and somebody doesn't like it, they can come into court
and say, well it was revoked, and then you have
to do more work. So I had that done once
in a situation. But it the man lived and lived
through Harvey like we all did, and his home was
(16:59):
completely submerged. People had to go out there on a canoe.
It was easy to rebut the presumption that it had
been that it had been revoked because it was destroyed
in Hurricane Harvey. But that cost the heirs probably like
five just in my fees because they ended up having
(17:21):
to pay my fees because my client was a point
was named in the will as executor, and he was
also a beneficiary of the will, but he had a
gift a specific thing, so it didn't cost him many
money to pay me out of estate assets. So the
other beneficiaries of the states said, no, no, the will's
(17:43):
been that's not a good will, and they challenged his
appointment under the will, saying there's no will, and we
went back and forth on it, and I think my
fees in that case were around seven thousand dollars and
it came out of the people contesting gets share of
the estate at the end of okay, so you know,
they would have been a lot better off letting the
(18:04):
person who got the gift ye do all the work,
deal with all the headaches, and do it pretty cheaply
instead of fighting. And they also had to pay their
own attorney, and I have no idea what they paid
their own attorney because it didn't come up.
Speaker 1 (18:17):
So that was a very costly contesting.
Speaker 2 (18:20):
Yeah, yeah, that was a cheap contest. Another situation is
when they say that the person didn't have capacity. Okay,
so those are the two big things where you're going
to challenge will, Like there is no will, that's not
the will, the person didn't have capacity, they never signed
that document. So I guess that's more than two. But
(18:42):
the other big thing is when someone disagrees with they
don't disagree with the will, they disagree with how the
estate is being administered, and so they cause problems that way,
saying oh, you didn't follow this duty that duty. Because
an executor is a fiduciary, and fiduciaries have lots of duties.
The will can take away some of those duties, but
(19:06):
they don't often take away a lot of them. So,
like one thing is a duty of disclosure, So the
executor has to keep everybody informed about everything, and you
can see how that could get annoying if somebody's well,
what's going on now? What's going on now? Well, you
didn't give me enough information because it's just someone who's
like that, and right, that can cause problems or the
(19:28):
executors actually not giving any information and keep because you
know those you've got those people too who are like
well I'm in charge. You don't need to know this,
And it's like, well.
Speaker 1 (19:37):
You need to tell Yeah, yeah, I can see that.
You know, family dynamics come into play, and it's normally
family members that you know that some issues with the
past pop up for some reason.
Speaker 2 (19:48):
The state contests are all about family dynamics.
Speaker 1 (19:52):
Yeah, family dynamics.
Speaker 2 (19:53):
Like I'm I've been working on one case that is hopefully,
hopefully going to be resolved soon for I don't know
how many years, like I've lost count. I'd have to
go look at my records, but at least six years,
and it's all because of family dynamics.
Speaker 1 (20:11):
Two things are popping into my mind here about as
the title company that we have to, let's say, deal
with when it comes to getting a will probated. One is,
there's no power of sale that was listed in the will,
So let's just let's start there. Because you mentioned the
(20:31):
executor is a fiduciary, they have certain responsibilities and some
of those can be taken away. But that power of
sale selling real property is something specific that has to
be granted within that will.
Speaker 2 (20:41):
Yeah, a will has to grant a power of sell.
Most wills do, because I mean, why are you putting
someone in charge?
Speaker 1 (20:49):
We find where the attorney, they just use an attorney
that didn't know to put it in there.
Speaker 2 (20:53):
A lot of people go and get their will from
their cousin John, who does you know, does criminal law
and he does a favor. Turns out he didn't do
anyone a favor, right, because you know, it's like going
to an electrician and asking them to do your drawwall.
I mean, he can probably do a decent job of
it better than you could. Yeah, but he's an electrician,
(21:14):
not a you know, drawwall guy.
Speaker 1 (21:16):
Yeah, And that's such a such an easy thing because it's, uh,
it's statutory language that has to go in there right
in the will, and it's just a paragraph.
Speaker 2 (21:23):
It doesn't have to be statutory language, but you know,
it helps. If you use language, a title company is
going to say, I know exactly what this is.
Speaker 1 (21:29):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:30):
If you get creative, you know, as the person drafting
the will, a title company might look at it and say,
I don't know what this means. So don't you know,
we don't like to get creative when we're drafting documents, right,
sometimes we have to because it's a unique situation. But
a power of sell. It's you know, it's exactly what
(21:50):
it sounds like. It's a power to sell property.
Speaker 1 (21:53):
So that the I mentioned that it's an issue that
we have to deal with or have to have to
navigate through in that if the power of sale is
not in the will, now all the heirs have to
come in and sign it, closing all the airs that
we're listed in there. And so then you've got the
executor who thinks they're the only one that's involved. Now
they got to get all the other brothers and sisters involved,
(22:15):
and it just becomes a it just becomes a thing
that we have to get everybody on the same page.
Speaker 2 (22:19):
Or you have to get the probate judge involved, okay,
because you know we've done that a few times.
Speaker 1 (22:25):
Get the probate judge to agree to allow it.
Speaker 2 (22:27):
On cases I've had with capital title as the title insurance,
you go in and you ask for you have to
do like five different filings and reports and everything. So
you can see how that's more expensive than putting a
power of sell in a will.
Speaker 1 (22:45):
And that is just to get the executor to have
the authority to sign.
Speaker 2 (22:49):
First, you petition the course court for the executor to
have the authority to list the property for sale. Then
you have to report to the court someone's made an offer,
and then you know, they go into Capitol Title and
they sign, and then you have to go to the
court and say, hey, judge, we've signed it. Do you
approve of the sale the contract. He's already seen and approved,
(23:13):
he's got to approve again, because that's that's the way
the Estates Code slaid down.
Speaker 1 (23:17):
Yeah, we are talking with attorney Jonathan Vernon, and if
you have any questions please call us four oh nine
eight nine six five five eight four. And you know
what we're talking about right here is it really speaks
to the point of how important it is to deal
with an attorney that knows what they're doing when preparing
these documents. So I mentioned there are a couple of
situations that we run into. That was one of them
(23:39):
that there's no power sale granted. The other is the
legal description of the property not being the legal description
of the properties that are you know, part of the
estate not being included in the will. So talk to
us a little bit about that, Okay.
Speaker 2 (23:54):
So, like if you're giving away a piece of property
in the will and there's no legal description just an address,
you're going to have some problems because the title company
is gonna want a legal description. Legally, you don't need
the legal description in the will for that sort of thing.
But you know, if you haven't executor who's been appointed,
(24:19):
they can get the legal description in the deed and
get it all together like that. But if it's a
will that's being recorded as ammuniument of title, there's no
legal description in there. The title company is going to
be like, what are we talking about?
Speaker 1 (24:35):
Yeah, and that's the title. Title companies go above and
beyond the law in several situations in which I know
you just love.
Speaker 2 (24:45):
Well with Affidavid's of airship, they go below the law
and I don't get it. I wouldn't do it if
I Yeah, the affidavit of airship there, it is in
the statute and it says that an affidavit of airship
is evidence after five years of being recorded. It's evidence
of the person's errors. Okay, and title companies accept them.
Speaker 1 (25:08):
Really, I never knew that that it was after only
after five years it would be evidences.
Speaker 2 (25:12):
So that's evidence. Yeah, it's not proof, gotcha. It's not conclusive.
It can be challenged yeah, if I was. There are
some things title companies do that I do not understand, Okay,
like why are you going that far? You don't need to.
And then there's the affidavit's of airship which they just take. Yeah,
I'm like, okay, I mean.
Speaker 1 (25:32):
And it depends on the underwriter I mean, and it
can vary from title company to title companies. So yeah,
I totally totally get what you're saying. And so but
back to that the legal description being in the will,
and also, by the way, in divorce decrees, we find
that problem also when you get a divorce, make sure
that the legal description is in that divorce decree. Uh.
(25:53):
So that's something really simple to make sure that that
it's in there. And you cannot we were talking about
this before the sho You can't always rely on what's
on the tax records, like if you go to the
appraisal district.
Speaker 2 (26:04):
And but I can't always I mean never as in never. Yeah,
it's an abbreviation of the legal description. That often you
can be looking at the deed and that description and
still being confused by what they're talking about.
Speaker 1 (26:17):
Yeah. Yeah, and we get man, I see, we get
contracts from all the time you know, transactions in the
legal description is just it's not correct.
Speaker 2 (26:26):
Well, like for contracts, it's not as big of a
deal because you got the trek forms and there's this
anty bitty space for the legal description which can be
pages long. So for the contract it's clear enough. Do
you know which piece of property you're talking about? And
then then it's kind of the title company's problem to
get the accurate legal description.
Speaker 1 (26:44):
Oh, we deal with that all the time. So you
as the as an attorney, where do you get the
legal description from?
Speaker 2 (26:50):
I usually get it from an existing deed, okay, you know,
and I look at it because sometimes they don't make sense.
You know, I've seen enough of them to where I'm
reading and through them. You know, especially a legal description
that just s has lot one, block two of blah
blah blah edition of the city of this in this
county in the state of Texas. Those you look at
(27:12):
them and it's hard to tell if they're wrong because
they're straightforward and formulate, but meets and bounds. Sometimes you
get them and you know there's just something in there
that just doesn't seem right because you've looked at enough
of them, and then you go back and look at
older deeds and older deeds until you find something that fits. Yeah,
that makes sense. And if you can't find anything that
(27:33):
makes sense, you say, hey, you might need to get
a survey.
Speaker 1 (27:35):
Get a survey done. That's a great point before.
Speaker 2 (27:37):
We or you accept the risk of this being you know,
a problem down the road.
Speaker 1 (27:43):
Yeah, either do it now or it's quite likely you're
going to have to do it later. Get that survey later,
because we have to deal with that at the top company.
If the legal description, because our examiners do the same
thing that you're talking about. They look at that legal
description and if it doesn't make sense, they're going to say,
you need to get another survey. Now you're in the
middle of the transaction. You've got a buyer on the hook,
and this issue gets thrown into the mix, and it's
(28:07):
better to just take care of it upfront.
Speaker 2 (28:08):
Yeah. And you know, there is the economics question of
is it worth it to do this? For example, what
I really should do but no one is going to
want to pay me to spend this much time. Is
I should trace the title back to the state, whether
that's I use the state and kind of not a
state of the United States, but the sovereign. So whether
(28:30):
it's you know, six flags over Texas, so it could
be six different sovereigns. So we trace it back to
Mexico or Spain or France, or the Republic of Texas
or the State of Texas. You would trace it back
all the way to there and then you know you've
got a good description. Yeah, but that would take forever,
and no one wants to pay me to do that.
Speaker 1 (28:52):
We recently had a class we being capital Title where
we brought in Brady Girard. He's a local surveyor and
he was talking about the platting process that was for
real estate agent, talking about he was teaching about how
they plat section of land division. But he had a
little he had a little part of the class where
he did where he showed give a demonstration of all
(29:16):
the way back to the how when they do research
sometimes they go all the way back to the sovereignty
of the land and it was really fascinating. I need
to have him on.
Speaker 2 (29:25):
Against technically you can go back to the King of Spain.
Speaker 1 (29:27):
Yeah, fascinating.
Speaker 2 (29:29):
I mean it'd probably be a viceroy or something, but
someone acting, yeah, on behalf of the King of Spain
love it.
Speaker 1 (29:36):
Thank you for listening. You're listening to the Dana Simons Show.
This is Andy Hemmings with capital title. And if you
have any questions for Attorney Jonathan Vernon, give us a
call at eight nine six five five eight four that's
four oh nine eight nine six k l v I
and we will be right back. Welcome back everyone to
the Dana Simmons Show. This is Andy Hemmings, guest host
(29:59):
to with capital title, and we have Attorney Jonathan Vernon
in the studio with us. And right now we have
a caller on the line, Miss Linda. Linda, thank you
for calling in today.
Speaker 3 (30:11):
Okay, thank you, Yes, Matam, how.
Speaker 1 (30:14):
Can we how can we help you?
Speaker 3 (30:15):
Okay? My husband passed away about seven years ago and
we did have a will, but we had you know,
I've gotten everything over here in Texas, but we have
property in Louisiana. How would that work?
Speaker 2 (30:31):
Okay? Did you probate the will in Texas?
Speaker 3 (30:34):
Yes?
Speaker 2 (30:34):
We have. Okay, I'm not sure what the time limits
for probating foreign will in Louisiana are because I'm not
licensed in Louisiana. But I'm gonna flip the question around
on you and give you a hypothetical, because I really
don't know how the process works in Louisiana. I'll tell
you how it works in Texas. First. I'll start off
by saying real estate is governed by the law of
(30:57):
the state where the real estate is. So let's just
pretend so that I can give you an example of
what the law commonly is in most states in a
general framework, how it works. So, if someone passed away
in Louisiana and had their will probated, we could come
into Texas, and in Texas you have to probate a
(31:18):
will within four years of the death unless it was
previously probated in a foreign state. Then you can come
into Texas and you have to do a whole new probate.
Texas has some laws that make it really simple to
where you can actually just record the document in certain
situations and you're off to the races. Louisiana is not
(31:41):
as easy to deal with. My family's from Louisiana, so
I've been through the probate process over there a little
bit personally, not professionally, so I don't think it'll be
that easy. So what you really need to do is
contact an attorney licensed in Louisiana to get started on
that process.
Speaker 3 (32:01):
Right. Well, but it's a river camp is what I
own now? Yeah without him, you know, and I really
want to get rid of it.
Speaker 2 (32:14):
So what I would say is you can contact attorney
licensed and yeah, probably it's probably best to do it
in the parish where the real estate is located.
Speaker 3 (32:26):
Okay, okay, all right, I just wanted to ask a lawyer.
Speaker 2 (32:30):
Yes, ma'am, thank you, hey, thank you.
Speaker 1 (32:32):
Then appreciate you calling in. And she said a river camp.
Speaker 2 (32:36):
Huh, yeah, I guess that's a camp on a river.
Speaker 1 (32:38):
Yeah, I love it. Okay. Meanwhile, she can go do
some fishing over there.
Speaker 2 (32:42):
There's lots of rivers over there.
Speaker 1 (32:43):
In there is definitely Okay, Linda, thank you for calling in.
We should do appreciate it. Anybody else have any questions,
please give us a call four O nine eight nine
six five five eight four Jonathan, give us your phone
number one more time over talking about.
Speaker 2 (32:57):
It is four oh nine seven two seven for eight
four seven.
Speaker 1 (33:02):
Jonathan is his offices right here in downtown Beaumont. And
so give him a call if you if you need
any legal work done or have any questions. So, Jonathan,
we've been talking about, you know, the will and some
of the issues that can arise as a result of that.
I know a work around, that's my term, a work
(33:24):
around that some people like to look to is using
a Todd deed transfer on death deed and a lady
Bird deed who in my under which in my understanding,
those are two help navigate around the necessity of probate.
So talk to us a little bit about those and
how you feel about them and how you use that.
Speaker 2 (33:44):
All right, I do not use Todd's the transfer on
death deed. Okay, you know there are some situations where
they might be better, but I really feel lady Bird
deeds are better.
Speaker 1 (33:55):
Jonathan, I do not know the difference between the two,
So educate us.
Speaker 2 (33:59):
There's some differences about the ability of creditors to reach
them after the person's death. Both are susceptible to claims
from creditors, but a Todd transfer is more susceptible to
claims from creditors. Now, if there's a mortgage on the property,
you're not getting around that. But I'm talking about you know,
(34:20):
Larry had fifty thousand dollars in credit card debt. They're
going to a Todd They can much more easily get
to that piece of property. Interesting, and that's in the statute.
So a todd is a creature of statute. Creature of
statute that means it's that's what that's a lawyer talked for.
It was created by a statute. The legislator passed a
law and said this. The Lady birdded is a creature
(34:45):
of a professor in Florida who came up with this idea.
So we've always had these things called life estates, and
but always I mean back to days in England where
they instead of having you know, go into capital title
and signing things, they hand dirt to a person and
line up the children and beat them so they'll remember
and be able to testify later. So ever since those days,
(35:06):
we've had life estate deeds. Well, this professor came up
with this idea of an enhanced life estate deed, which
just reserves basically all the rights to the person granting
the life estate deed. A life of state deed just
says someone can have this property until this person dies,
and the person getting the property and the person who
(35:27):
dies they can be different people. So that's all a
life estate need, is an enhanced life estate deed is
a Todd and a lady bird deed, but they're just
different kinds.
Speaker 1 (35:38):
And so when somebody comes to see you and they
tell you their situation, and you can kind of make
a determination on what's going to be best for them, right.
Speaker 2 (35:45):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I will say I've never done a Todd,
I've only done late labor. And I'll also tell people that,
you know, while this is a good way to get
around probate, I like to use them in conjunction with
a trust because while the statute says a Todd is revocable,
and I think title companies honor that. That's the one
(36:08):
thing that Todd's have over lady bird deeds. They're both
completely revocable by the person who did them. But title companies,
for some reason, say I don't trust that for lady
bird deeds. So if you come to me and say
I want a lady bird deed because I don't want
to do probate, I'll say, well, we should do it
with a trust. Okay, if you leave, if the person
(36:32):
who gets the property when you pass away is the
trust and you're the trustee of the trust, you have
authority to you know, according to the title company, you
have authority to sign for the beneficiaries.
Speaker 1 (36:44):
Gotcha. We're going to dive more into trust when we
come back from our next break. I'm glad you mentioned
that you are listening to the Dana Simmons Show. This
is Andy Hemmings with Capital Title. And let me just
give us a quick plug here for Capital Title. If
you have any real estate transaction, you're you're buying a property,
you're selling a property, residential, commercial, rawland, whatever it is,
(37:07):
Capital Title can close that transaction for you, So please
keep us in mind. My phone number is four oh
nine six' five eight three six nine, Five happy to
answer any of your title related questions or real estate.
Questions we're going to be right back with The Dana Simmons.
Show hey, everybody and welcome back to The Dana Simmons.
(37:28):
Show this Is Andy hemmings With Capital. Title your guest.
Host dana's taking a little break today to be with
her family and her beautiful grand baby is having a
birthday party. Today So, dana if you're listening out, there
you have a wonderful time and we appreciate everything that
everything that you. Do all, Right, So, jonathan we were
(37:48):
just finishing up talking About ladybird deeds Versus todd deeds
and how you will do a ladybird, Deed but you
also recommend that they have a trust set. Up so
what is when would some one want to do a
trust rather than just having a will that's going to.
Speaker 2 (38:04):
Be, probated, okay when they want to avoid. Probate. Okay
there are other reasons to have a. Trust there are
lots of reasons to have. Trust if you're in the one,
percent the top one, percent where you have millions upon
millions of, dollars you will want trust set up to
avoid estate. TAXES a lot of people come in and
(38:27):
tell ME i want to trust to avoid estate. Taxes
And i'm, like, okay do you have over seven million
dollars in? Assets and they say, No And i'm, like,
okay well why do you think you need to avoid estate? Tax?
People it used to be around a million, dollars which
a good life insurance policy and a really nice home
In Southeast texas where homes aren't even really that. Expensive
(38:49):
we'll get you there back in the. Day but for
as long As i've practiced, law it's been at at
least five million.
Speaker 1 (38:56):
Dollars and so now it's seven million, dollars.
Speaker 2 (39:00):
So that's the NUMBER i. Use it's more than, that
but the current laws sunsets at the end of this
year beginning of next. Year it might get reinstated because
it was a Law trump passed in his first, term
and so you, Know i've heard that they want to
keep those tax, cuts so they might pass it in
(39:20):
his second. Term but you, KNOW i don't.
Speaker 1 (39:23):
Know so does that mean for someone who doesn't have
seven million dollars in, assets they don't need a trust
or is there still some compelling.
Speaker 2 (39:31):
REASONS i have a, TRUST i don't have seven million
dollars in. ASSETS i prefer it if you can wrap
your mind around the concept of a trust and the
steps you have to take to keep up with. IT
i think a trust is better than a will Be
could you skip over, probate which people stress. OUT i
don't think probate's that big of a deal In, texas
if you have a self proved, will you've got the.
(39:54):
Original probate's not that big of a. Deal it's not that,
expensive you, know compared to other states and other. Things but,
people even IF i sit there and tell them exactly
what's going to happen in. Court people get real nervous
and stressed out about. It but if you skip over,
probate it reduces the likelihood of, challenges it reduces the
(40:17):
court's interference in your, plans and it's something that can
be used during your lifetime as well to manage your
affairs if you become. Incompetent, Okay so then there's other
reasons to have, it you, know if you're avoiding probate
because Of medicaid. Reasons if you pass away and you've
(40:37):
been On, medicaid there are certain assets that are exempt
from counting your resources Of. Medicaid if those pass through,
probate The state Of texas gets a bite at that.
Apple oh. Wow if they go outside of probate under current,
law The state Of texas does not get a bite
at that. Apple and that's different in different. States the
states get to choose whether or not they get to
(40:59):
go after probate assets or, not, okay or whether or
not they get to go after non probate. Assets The
state Of texas, says we.
Speaker 1 (41:06):
Don't, Okay so let's get your phone number one more
time as we come in here for a.
Speaker 2 (41:12):
Landing four oh nine seven two seven four eight four.
Speaker 1 (41:15):
Seven all, Right so if you you know you're listening
and you've been thinking about getting that will set, up
it's just been something then you keep putting it off
because you don't want to think about. It let me
tell you. What it's just so important to get these
things handled, now even though it's uncomfortable to think about.
It it will save you and it will save your
your family a lot of headache on down the road
(41:38):
to Uh to to Call jonathan and get things set.
Speaker 2 (41:41):
Up, YEAH i guarantee you you're gonna die, someday that's.
Speaker 1 (41:45):
Right, yeah we're talking about how the only thing they,
say the only thing certain is death and, Taxes, well
taxes you cannot pay them and go to prison or
just be really good at avoiding. Them so even taxes
aren't a aren't a for for sure. Thing, Yeah so you, Know,
jonathan we just really appreciate you and our relationship with
you At Capital. TITLE i know we do a lot
(42:08):
of business with you and you've become a resource for
us and we appreciate.
Speaker 2 (42:11):
IT i appreciate. Y'all, yeah y'all, know y'all, know y'all's
business we.
Speaker 1 (42:15):
Do we've we've got you, know over one hundred and
fifteen offices in the state Of. Texas now we're all Over,
texas but we can actually close transactions all. Across we
have relationships with title companies all over the, nation and
we're opening title companies all over the all over the,
country and so, yeah a lot of people don't know
that we can handle. EVERYTHING i, mean we deal with
(42:36):
some very very large commercial transactions as, well and we're
just we're here to help. You we've got offices In, Beaumont,
lumberton Orange, Port, arthur and even down In Crystal. Beach so,
anyway we're here for, you and we really appreciate.
Speaker 2 (42:51):
You, JONATHAN i appreciate.
Speaker 1 (42:53):
Y'ALL i want everybody out there to have a Wonderful,
saturday a wonderful. WEEKEND i think this weather's finally clearing
up out, there and enjoy. Things we appreciate. You listening
to The Danis Simmons, show this has Been Andy hemmings
With Capital title
Dana Simmons show here on kov I. This is Andy
Hemmings and I am the guest host today from Capital Title.
Really appreciate you'll tuning in and wanted to say hello
to Dana and her team. Dana took the day off today.
She is with her grand baby for her birthday party.
So have a wonderful time with your beautiful family today, Dana.
(00:22):
And it's just an honor to be here hosting your
show for you. So we have a guest with us today,
mister Jonathan Vernon from the law office of Jonathan Vernon,
and he's a local real estate attorney. He is a
good customer of Capital Title. We utilize him a lot,
and we've got a lot to talk about in regards
to real estate law and specifically with estate planning. So
(00:47):
call in if you have any questions about a state
planning because you've got a very very good attorney here
to ask questions. And our call in number is four
O nine eight nine six five five eight four four
nine eight nine six kov I. So, without further ado, Jonathan,
welcome to the show.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
Well, thank you for having me.
Speaker 1 (01:05):
Yeah, this is your second tecond time on the show.
It might be my third might be a third. Okay,
so he has been a somewhat a regular, a regular,
and I know that a couple of times you've been
here before, we've had some really good people that have called,
some good questions that people called in to talk to
you about. Yeah, so if you would just give us
(01:26):
a high level view of what the service that you
the services that you offer as a real estate attorney.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
So I'm primarily an estate planning and probate attorney, which
is dealing with death basically planning for it and then
executing the plan or dealing with the lack of plan
once someone does pass away. Yeah, also incapacity in a
bunch of other issues. But you said high level view. Yeah,
And because I do that, also do real estate because
(01:52):
what's the biggest assets someone has to deal with when
someone passes away. About ninety percent of the time, right,
it's the real estate, usually the home, but sometimes they
have additional real estate as well. Yeah, So if I'm
going to have to deal with that in the probate practice,
I'll might as well deal with it when it's not
in the probate practice. Yeah. And then I also do
(02:13):
entity work like LLCs and partnerships which if you're doing
real estate, you probably need to be doing that too anyway.
And if you're doing a state planning, you probably need
to be doing that anyway too.
Speaker 1 (02:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
So those three practice areas really converge together and work
well together. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
Got you and a lot of people overlook, you know,
or they put off this estate, especially the estate planning
aspect of it. We're going to dive into that and
talk about how to get involved in and how to
get started down that path. But you are located right
here in Beaumont, and you office downtown and you're working
on a new building downtown also, that's right, Yeah, very good.
(02:52):
So Law Office of Jonathan Vernon. Let's go ahead and
get your phone number out there too.
Speaker 2 (02:56):
It is four oh nine seven two seven for A
eight four seven and that is the office number, and
you can text it if you want to communicate by texts.
Speaker 1 (03:07):
Perfect, Thanks Jonathan, and so remember just call in today
four h nine eight nine sixty five five eight four
if you've got questions on estate planning, setting up a
business entity, or real estate related questions to Jonathan is
here to answer those questions. So, Jonathan, our involvement with
you at Capital Title mainly A lot of times has
(03:29):
to do with corrective work that has to be done
on you know, different maybe some different documents that you
had or deals that we're working on. So let's let's
kind of get in front of that.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
Though.
Speaker 1 (03:41):
If someone is looking to do some estate planning, what
are the first steps that they need to take?
Speaker 2 (03:47):
Well, the first step is to get in contact with
someone who can help you do an estate planning, like
an estate planning attorney. So call someone like me and
will guide you through the process. Okay, At the minimum,
I think most people need a will, a power of attorney,
and a medical power of attorney that prepares for if
(04:10):
you pass away, or if something happens to you and
you don't pass away, but you can no longer make decisions,
become incapacitated, yes, yeah, become incapacitated, yeah, you know, so
a will power of attorney, medical power of attorney. That's
exactly what my wife and I did sometime ago when
we met with an attorney. And those are the three
documents they did for us. And this was years ago,
(04:32):
and I went back and looked at him not too
long ago, and everything's still okay. I mean, what we
had set up. It's still in place, and so I'm
glad that we did that. A lot of people put
this off, though, and I know that firsthand because working
for the title company, when we sell a prop, when
we get a transaction, we get the title work back
(04:52):
somebody who was entitle they don't have a will, and
then there's a whole nother process we have to go through,
which we'll talk about, but I don't know, Jonathan. I
would say probably easily half of the transactions that we
have where there's an estate they didn't have a will,
probably even more than that. What do you think is
the reason people put it off? Nobody likes to think
about death. And you come into my office and I'll say, okay, Andy,
(05:16):
you want to leave everything to your wife, and if
your wife goes before you, you want to leave it
to your kids. Yeah, well what if your kids die first?
Well your grandchildren? Okay, well what if your grandchildren die
and they're your great grandchildren die? I ask you those
uncomfortable questions, and people don't want to be asked that
uncomfortable question. They don't want to think about it. But
you know, we're all going to die sometimes.
Speaker 1 (05:37):
That's one thing that's guaranteed.
Speaker 2 (05:38):
Like when people ask like, well, who can put you
in touch with to help get you business, It's like, well,
do you know anyone who's going to die or knows
someone who's going to die? Right, because almost everybody is
going to end up needing a will or you know
some sort of estate plan you can go around probate. Uh,
you know that's getting a little bit more complicated, but
(05:59):
you know a lot of people do that for various reasons. Yeah,
but everybody's going to die, and if they have stuff,
they're going to leave it to somebody, and having a
will sure beats not having a will if there's any problems.
Speaker 1 (06:15):
Yeah, and there's a saying that we have in the
title industry. If you don't have a will, the state
of Texas has one for you. And it's that law
of dissent and distribution. I believe it's called right.
Speaker 2 (06:26):
I've recently finished up an intestate estate in a situation
where not everybody could agree, so it had to be
a deependent administration. And I was looking at my hours
and it's been going on so long, my hours of
my billable rate has changed. But if today's rate, it
(06:47):
would have been like eleven thousand dollars, wow, to do
that estate. Yeah. But and it's gone on long enough
that my rate has changed like three times go.
Speaker 1 (06:59):
And if they would have just had a will, if they.
Speaker 2 (07:01):
Would have had a will, it would have been done.
And you know, depending on various factors like court time,
client cooperation, how busy I am, it would have been
done in a month to six months.
Speaker 1 (07:14):
Yeah, at a fraction a fraction for about Yeah. I
was going to say probably a couple couple thousand dollars
or so. And I know that that changes depending on
the situation.
Speaker 2 (07:24):
A quarter of the cost maybe.
Speaker 1 (07:26):
And a lot less headache for the family. And so
you said a couple of things that I'll will unpack
a little. You said, somebody died intestate, meaning they died
without it, without a will, and then there was conflict
within the family.
Speaker 2 (07:40):
In this situation, it wasn't so much conflict as that
two or three of the errors were miners. And well,
the Estates Code says a minor can agree to an
independent administration. Uh. Several judges say, well, that's not I
don't think that's in the best entry of the estate.
(08:01):
So I'm not going to do it.
Speaker 1 (08:02):
Okay. So let's let me let me, let me pause.
Right there, So the estates code says that the minor
somebody under the age of eighteen.
Speaker 2 (08:12):
Can of the age of twelve, I believe.
Speaker 1 (08:14):
Okay, between twelve and eighteen, that they can agree to
an independent administration, meaning without ju without a judge being involved. Right, basically, yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:25):
The judge is still involved, but barely barely.
Speaker 1 (08:28):
But others say, and there are judges out there that
disagree with that, and they say, nope, if there's a
minor involved, needs to be a dependent administration.
Speaker 2 (08:36):
And so it's not that the judges disagree with the
estate's code, it's that the state's code says it's up
to the judge. Oh okay, well that's within the judges discretion.
The judge isn't, you know, being lawless.
Speaker 1 (08:47):
I don't think I knew that. Well, okay, okay, And
so what becomes involved then when it's a dependent administration?
Let's okay, So let's let's take a family that you know,
you've got three kids, the last surviving parent died without
a will, let's say something like that. So what are
they what might they have to go through at that time?
Speaker 2 (09:07):
Okay? So I'll back up one step.
Speaker 1 (09:10):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (09:10):
The way we get to a dependent administration and not
an independent administration is if not everybody has capacity to agree,
or they're unwilling to agree on who should be in
charge and what powers they should have.
Speaker 1 (09:23):
And lack of capacity could be literally mentally incompetent or
a minor. Those are two two okay, all right.
Speaker 2 (09:30):
And so in that process nobody agrees. So you have
to do a dependent administration. If you need an administration,
sometimes you can verify this, but sometimes you don't need
an administration. An affidavit airship is all you need. And
a capital title will draw you up one if you're
come into a capital title for their transaction a lot
(09:51):
cheaper than I will.
Speaker 1 (09:52):
Yes, So thank you for saying that.
Speaker 2 (09:56):
Well, that's what I tell people who call me.
Speaker 1 (09:58):
You probably don't like to mess with them a whole lot,
any I.
Speaker 2 (10:00):
Mean, I'd be fine messing with them if Capital Title
couldn't do them for a quarter of the costs.
Speaker 1 (10:05):
Yeah, we got teams of attorneys, that's just.
Speaker 2 (10:06):
What they do. Yeah, And so you need an administration
for you know, because people can't agree, they're not going
to agree to sell the property or agree on a price.
So you need someone in charge. So basically the person
in charge is the judge. And so you have to
once that person gets appointed, they have to pay a
(10:28):
pay for a bond to make sure they're not going
to do the job improperly. Uh, they have to they
have all their duties as executor or well administrator because
they're not an executor in this case. And then for
there's maybe like eight things in the code that they're
allowed to do without the judge's permission. Everything else like
(10:49):
spend money, uh, sell the property, distribute the property to
the to the heirs.
Speaker 1 (10:55):
Judge even pick the real estate agent that they have
to hire the judge.
Speaker 2 (10:59):
The judge can, okay, pick the real state agent and
will if there's a dispute between you know, say one
one kid wants this real state agent and the other
kid wants that real estate agent and they're willing to
spend money on an attorney to fight about it, the
judge is going to pick the real state agent. Yeah.
But most of the time I've been able to get
(11:19):
the real estate agent that the person selling the property,
the person in charge who's been jointed wanted.
Speaker 1 (11:26):
Okay, all right, we are going to take what we
just dove right off into it there, man, and we
got so much more to talk about. We are going
to take a quick break, but I want to give
you this phone number again four O nine eight nine
six five five eight four four O nine eight nine
six klv I. If you have any questions for Attorney
Jonathan Vernon with the Law Office of Jonathan Vernon in
(11:47):
regards to handling your estate particularly, but any other questions
you may have about maybe setting up a business entity,
We're here for you. This is Andy Hemmings, guest host
for the Dana Simmons Show, and we'll be right back.
Welcome back to the Dana Simmons Show. This is Andy
Hemmings and I am with capital title and our guest
(12:09):
today is mister attorney Jonathan Vernon, And right now we
are talking about a states and wills and what happens
when you pass away without a will. And Jonathan, I
think that you, you know, just to kind of recap,
you mentioned how important it is to get a will
power of attorney and a medical power of attorney. So
(12:31):
let's let's talk a little bit about that, if you will.
Let's talk about powers of attorney and why that's important
in a state planning.
Speaker 2 (12:39):
Okay, all right, So a power of attorney is basically
a document that says this person can act on my behalf.
And the reason that's important is because something might happen
to you where you cannot act in your own interests
and you need to. People generally need to do things.
That's that's how life works. And if you're dealing with
(13:02):
third parties and they don't, aren't just going to go
along with the son saying well mom wants this, which
most institutions won't. You need to If you don't have
that power of attorney for mom, you need to go
to the court and get a guardianship of the estate,
which is insanely burdensome on the person doing it and costly. Yes,
so I recommend no one get a power of attorney
(13:23):
and I can make just a ton of money.
Speaker 1 (13:25):
Yeah, because a guardianship is do you make a lot
more money?
Speaker 2 (13:29):
Yeah, you make a whole lot more money, Yeah, at
least ten times getting it started, and then there's annual
things you have to do to stay in it.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:38):
So I'm jokingly say, don't get it. I just want
to make that clear to the listeners.
Speaker 1 (13:42):
Yeah. That and the power of attorney. It's not. It's
definitely a very cost effective document. It doesn't you know,
it's not real, real expensive to the whole thing. The
will power of attorney, medical power of attorney relatively inexpensive
to get that set up.
Speaker 2 (13:57):
It's a lot cheaper than not getting it and needing it.
Speaker 1 (14:00):
Yeah, yeah, I remember one situation, and and furthermore, it's
important to keep that original power of attorney or go
ahead and record it. And this is speaking from the
title company perspective that when we have a transaction where
the parties, one of the parties assigned using a power
of attorney, we're going to need that original to record
(14:25):
to to to basically, but because that's what makes it,
I guess legally binding is the Yeah, it is the
right way to put it. I remember one situation where
I was dealing with the child of a woman. She
was she was in an Alzheimer's unit, and so the
child was dealing with the with the with her her
sales the sales needs there, and they couldn't find they
(14:46):
couldn't find the original power of attorney. All we had
was a copy, and he ended up having to set
up a guardianship for her because of that, and because
we have to have the original and to prevent fraud.
You know, there's a lot of fraud out there with
powers of attorney.
Speaker 2 (14:59):
And the thing is is the county will not record
a document that's not an original.
Speaker 1 (15:05):
That's right, thank you. Yes, that's why it's important and
it has to be recorded. So if you're you know,
listening out there and you have a power of attorney,
make sure you have the original and you can go
ahead and record it. Now, there's nothing to prevent you
from record.
Speaker 2 (15:19):
You can always record it. The reason not to record
it is you're worried about privacy.
Speaker 1 (15:23):
Well, yeah, find out your business.
Speaker 2 (15:24):
Yeah. One thing you could do is Texas has a
lot of counties. You can just record it in some
far off county. Yeah, make sure everyone who needs to
do was recorded there, and then you can get certified copies,
which are the one thing you can record that's not
an original.
Speaker 1 (15:40):
Yeah, that's a great point. I never thought about that.
Just recorded in another county where nobody knows, you keep
your privacy. And then as you mentioned, then we as
the title company, we just get a certified copy from
that county and recorded in the county where the property
is being sold. Yeah, great idea.
Speaker 2 (15:57):
All right, occasionally I have those.
Speaker 1 (16:03):
You know what, going back to the wills here, do
you ever run into situations where the family is in
disagreement about the will, where there's where the wills are
being contested, and if so, when, like, under what circumstances
do you see that?
Speaker 2 (16:16):
So one of the circumstances you see that is there's
a lost will, and a will is kind of like
that power of attorney. You need the original. You can
probate a copy, but there's a legal presumption that if
the original's gone, it was revoked. It's pretty much a
weak presumption that judges have over the years kind of
(16:37):
done away with appellate courts, so it's not a strong presumption.
But if you don't have a will, the original will,
and somebody doesn't like it, they can come into court
and say, well it was revoked, and then you have
to do more work. So I had that done once
in a situation. But it the man lived and lived
through Harvey like we all did, and his home was
(16:59):
completely submerged. People had to go out there on a canoe.
It was easy to rebut the presumption that it had
been that it had been revoked because it was destroyed
in Hurricane Harvey. But that cost the heirs probably like
five just in my fees because they ended up having
(17:21):
to pay my fees because my client was a point
was named in the will as executor, and he was
also a beneficiary of the will, but he had a
gift a specific thing, so it didn't cost him many
money to pay me out of estate assets. So the
other beneficiaries of the states said, no, no, the will's
(17:43):
been that's not a good will, and they challenged his
appointment under the will, saying there's no will, and we
went back and forth on it, and I think my
fees in that case were around seven thousand dollars and
it came out of the people contesting gets share of
the estate at the end of okay, so you know,
they would have been a lot better off letting the
(18:04):
person who got the gift ye do all the work,
deal with all the headaches, and do it pretty cheaply
instead of fighting. And they also had to pay their
own attorney, and I have no idea what they paid
their own attorney because it didn't come up.
Speaker 1 (18:17):
So that was a very costly contesting.
Speaker 2 (18:20):
Yeah, yeah, that was a cheap contest. Another situation is
when they say that the person didn't have capacity. Okay,
so those are the two big things where you're going
to challenge will, Like there is no will, that's not
the will, the person didn't have capacity, they never signed
that document. So I guess that's more than two. But
(18:42):
the other big thing is when someone disagrees with they
don't disagree with the will, they disagree with how the
estate is being administered, and so they cause problems that way,
saying oh, you didn't follow this duty that duty. Because
an executor is a fiduciary, and fiduciaries have lots of duties.
The will can take away some of those duties, but
(19:06):
they don't often take away a lot of them. So,
like one thing is a duty of disclosure, So the
executor has to keep everybody informed about everything, and you
can see how that could get annoying if somebody's well,
what's going on now? What's going on now? Well, you
didn't give me enough information because it's just someone who's
like that, and right, that can cause problems or the
(19:28):
executors actually not giving any information and keep because you
know those you've got those people too who are like
well I'm in charge. You don't need to know this,
And it's like, well.
Speaker 1 (19:37):
You need to tell Yeah, yeah, I can see that.
You know, family dynamics come into play, and it's normally
family members that you know that some issues with the
past pop up for some reason.
Speaker 2 (19:48):
The state contests are all about family dynamics.
Speaker 1 (19:52):
Yeah, family dynamics.
Speaker 2 (19:53):
Like I'm I've been working on one case that is hopefully,
hopefully going to be resolved soon for I don't know
how many years, like I've lost count. I'd have to
go look at my records, but at least six years,
and it's all because of family dynamics.
Speaker 1 (20:11):
Two things are popping into my mind here about as
the title company that we have to, let's say, deal
with when it comes to getting a will probated. One is,
there's no power of sale that was listed in the will,
So let's just let's start there. Because you mentioned the
(20:31):
executor is a fiduciary, they have certain responsibilities and some
of those can be taken away. But that power of
sale selling real property is something specific that has to
be granted within that will.
Speaker 2 (20:41):
Yeah, a will has to grant a power of sell.
Most wills do, because I mean, why are you putting
someone in charge?
Speaker 1 (20:49):
We find where the attorney, they just use an attorney
that didn't know to put it in there.
Speaker 2 (20:53):
A lot of people go and get their will from
their cousin John, who does you know, does criminal law
and he does a favor. Turns out he didn't do
anyone a favor, right, because you know, it's like going
to an electrician and asking them to do your drawwall.
I mean, he can probably do a decent job of
it better than you could. Yeah, but he's an electrician,
(21:14):
not a you know, drawwall guy.
Speaker 1 (21:16):
Yeah, And that's such a such an easy thing because it's, uh,
it's statutory language that has to go in there right
in the will, and it's just a paragraph.
Speaker 2 (21:23):
It doesn't have to be statutory language, but you know,
it helps. If you use language, a title company is
going to say, I know exactly what this is.
Speaker 1 (21:29):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:30):
If you get creative, you know, as the person drafting
the will, a title company might look at it and say,
I don't know what this means. So don't you know,
we don't like to get creative when we're drafting documents, right,
sometimes we have to because it's a unique situation. But
a power of sell. It's you know, it's exactly what
(21:50):
it sounds like. It's a power to sell property.
Speaker 1 (21:53):
So that the I mentioned that it's an issue that
we have to deal with or have to have to
navigate through in that if the power of sale is
not in the will, now all the heirs have to
come in and sign it, closing all the airs that
we're listed in there. And so then you've got the
executor who thinks they're the only one that's involved. Now
they got to get all the other brothers and sisters involved,
(22:15):
and it just becomes a it just becomes a thing
that we have to get everybody on the same page.
Speaker 2 (22:19):
Or you have to get the probate judge involved, okay,
because you know we've done that a few times.
Speaker 1 (22:25):
Get the probate judge to agree to allow it.
Speaker 2 (22:27):
On cases I've had with capital title as the title insurance,
you go in and you ask for you have to
do like five different filings and reports and everything. So
you can see how that's more expensive than putting a
power of sell in a will.
Speaker 1 (22:45):
And that is just to get the executor to have
the authority to sign.
Speaker 2 (22:49):
First, you petition the course court for the executor to
have the authority to list the property for sale. Then
you have to report to the court someone's made an offer,
and then you know, they go into Capitol Title and
they sign, and then you have to go to the
court and say, hey, judge, we've signed it. Do you
approve of the sale the contract. He's already seen and approved,
(23:13):
he's got to approve again, because that's that's the way
the Estates Code slaid down.
Speaker 1 (23:17):
Yeah, we are talking with attorney Jonathan Vernon, and if
you have any questions please call us four oh nine
eight nine six five five eight four. And you know
what we're talking about right here is it really speaks
to the point of how important it is to deal
with an attorney that knows what they're doing when preparing
these documents. So I mentioned there are a couple of
situations that we run into. That was one of them
(23:39):
that there's no power sale granted. The other is the
legal description of the property not being the legal description
of the properties that are you know, part of the
estate not being included in the will. So talk to
us a little bit about that, Okay.
Speaker 2 (23:54):
So, like if you're giving away a piece of property
in the will and there's no legal description just an address,
you're going to have some problems because the title company
is gonna want a legal description. Legally, you don't need
the legal description in the will for that sort of thing.
But you know, if you haven't executor who's been appointed,
(24:19):
they can get the legal description in the deed and
get it all together like that. But if it's a
will that's being recorded as ammuniument of title, there's no
legal description in there. The title company is going to
be like, what are we talking about?
Speaker 1 (24:35):
Yeah, and that's the title. Title companies go above and
beyond the law in several situations in which I know
you just love.
Speaker 2 (24:45):
Well with Affidavid's of airship, they go below the law
and I don't get it. I wouldn't do it if
I Yeah, the affidavit of airship there, it is in
the statute and it says that an affidavit of airship
is evidence after five years of being recorded. It's evidence
of the person's errors. Okay, and title companies accept them.
Speaker 1 (25:08):
Really, I never knew that that it was after only
after five years it would be evidences.
Speaker 2 (25:12):
So that's evidence. Yeah, it's not proof, gotcha. It's not conclusive.
It can be challenged yeah, if I was. There are
some things title companies do that I do not understand, Okay,
like why are you going that far? You don't need to.
And then there's the affidavit's of airship which they just take. Yeah,
I'm like, okay, I mean.
Speaker 1 (25:32):
And it depends on the underwriter I mean, and it
can vary from title company to title companies. So yeah,
I totally totally get what you're saying. And so but
back to that the legal description being in the will,
and also, by the way, in divorce decrees, we find
that problem also when you get a divorce, make sure
that the legal description is in that divorce decree. Uh.
(25:53):
So that's something really simple to make sure that that
it's in there. And you cannot we were talking about
this before the sho You can't always rely on what's
on the tax records, like if you go to the
appraisal district.
Speaker 2 (26:04):
And but I can't always I mean never as in never. Yeah,
it's an abbreviation of the legal description. That often you
can be looking at the deed and that description and
still being confused by what they're talking about.
Speaker 1 (26:17):
Yeah. Yeah, and we get man, I see, we get
contracts from all the time you know, transactions in the
legal description is just it's not correct.
Speaker 2 (26:26):
Well, like for contracts, it's not as big of a
deal because you got the trek forms and there's this
anty bitty space for the legal description which can be
pages long. So for the contract it's clear enough. Do
you know which piece of property you're talking about? And
then then it's kind of the title company's problem to
get the accurate legal description.
Speaker 1 (26:44):
Oh, we deal with that all the time. So you
as the as an attorney, where do you get the
legal description from?
Speaker 2 (26:50):
I usually get it from an existing deed, okay, you know,
and I look at it because sometimes they don't make sense.
You know, I've seen enough of them to where I'm
reading and through them. You know, especially a legal description
that just s has lot one, block two of blah
blah blah edition of the city of this in this
county in the state of Texas. Those you look at
(27:12):
them and it's hard to tell if they're wrong because
they're straightforward and formulate, but meets and bounds. Sometimes you
get them and you know there's just something in there
that just doesn't seem right because you've looked at enough
of them, and then you go back and look at
older deeds and older deeds until you find something that fits. Yeah,
that makes sense. And if you can't find anything that
(27:33):
makes sense, you say, hey, you might need to get
a survey.
Speaker 1 (27:35):
Get a survey done. That's a great point before.
Speaker 2 (27:37):
We or you accept the risk of this being you know,
a problem down the road.
Speaker 1 (27:43):
Yeah, either do it now or it's quite likely you're
going to have to do it later. Get that survey later,
because we have to deal with that at the top company.
If the legal description, because our examiners do the same
thing that you're talking about. They look at that legal
description and if it doesn't make sense, they're going to say,
you need to get another survey. Now you're in the
middle of the transaction. You've got a buyer on the hook,
and this issue gets thrown into the mix, and it's
(28:07):
better to just take care of it upfront.
Speaker 2 (28:08):
Yeah. And you know, there is the economics question of
is it worth it to do this? For example, what
I really should do but no one is going to
want to pay me to spend this much time. Is
I should trace the title back to the state, whether
that's I use the state and kind of not a
state of the United States, but the sovereign. So whether
(28:30):
it's you know, six flags over Texas, so it could
be six different sovereigns. So we trace it back to
Mexico or Spain or France, or the Republic of Texas
or the State of Texas. You would trace it back
all the way to there and then you know you've
got a good description. Yeah, but that would take forever,
and no one wants to pay me to do that.
Speaker 1 (28:52):
We recently had a class we being capital Title where
we brought in Brady Girard. He's a local surveyor and
he was talking about the platting process that was for
real estate agent, talking about he was teaching about how
they plat section of land division. But he had a
little he had a little part of the class where
he did where he showed give a demonstration of all
(29:16):
the way back to the how when they do research
sometimes they go all the way back to the sovereignty
of the land and it was really fascinating. I need
to have him on.
Speaker 2 (29:25):
Against technically you can go back to the King of Spain.
Speaker 1 (29:27):
Yeah, fascinating.
Speaker 2 (29:29):
I mean it'd probably be a viceroy or something, but
someone acting, yeah, on behalf of the King of Spain
love it.
Speaker 1 (29:36):
Thank you for listening. You're listening to the Dana Simons Show.
This is Andy Hemmings with capital title. And if you
have any questions for Attorney Jonathan Vernon, give us a
call at eight nine six five five eight four that's
four oh nine eight nine six k l v I
and we will be right back. Welcome back everyone to
the Dana Simmons Show. This is Andy Hemmings, guest host
(29:59):
to with capital title, and we have Attorney Jonathan Vernon
in the studio with us. And right now we have
a caller on the line, Miss Linda. Linda, thank you
for calling in today.
Speaker 3 (30:11):
Okay, thank you, Yes, Matam, how.
Speaker 1 (30:14):
Can we how can we help you?
Speaker 3 (30:15):
Okay? My husband passed away about seven years ago and
we did have a will, but we had you know,
I've gotten everything over here in Texas, but we have
property in Louisiana. How would that work?
Speaker 2 (30:31):
Okay? Did you probate the will in Texas?
Speaker 3 (30:34):
Yes?
Speaker 2 (30:34):
We have. Okay, I'm not sure what the time limits
for probating foreign will in Louisiana are because I'm not
licensed in Louisiana. But I'm gonna flip the question around
on you and give you a hypothetical, because I really
don't know how the process works in Louisiana. I'll tell
you how it works in Texas. First. I'll start off
by saying real estate is governed by the law of
(30:57):
the state where the real estate is. So let's just
pretend so that I can give you an example of
what the law commonly is in most states in a
general framework, how it works. So, if someone passed away
in Louisiana and had their will probated, we could come
into Texas, and in Texas you have to probate a
(31:18):
will within four years of the death unless it was
previously probated in a foreign state. Then you can come
into Texas and you have to do a whole new probate.
Texas has some laws that make it really simple to
where you can actually just record the document in certain
situations and you're off to the races. Louisiana is not
(31:41):
as easy to deal with. My family's from Louisiana, so
I've been through the probate process over there a little
bit personally, not professionally, so I don't think it'll be
that easy. So what you really need to do is
contact an attorney licensed in Louisiana to get started on
that process.
Speaker 3 (32:01):
Right. Well, but it's a river camp is what I
own now? Yeah without him, you know, and I really
want to get rid of it.
Speaker 2 (32:14):
So what I would say is you can contact attorney
licensed and yeah, probably it's probably best to do it
in the parish where the real estate is located.
Speaker 3 (32:26):
Okay, okay, all right, I just wanted to ask a lawyer.
Speaker 2 (32:30):
Yes, ma'am, thank you, hey, thank you.
Speaker 1 (32:32):
Then appreciate you calling in. And she said a river camp.
Speaker 2 (32:36):
Huh, yeah, I guess that's a camp on a river.
Speaker 1 (32:38):
Yeah, I love it. Okay. Meanwhile, she can go do
some fishing over there.
Speaker 2 (32:42):
There's lots of rivers over there.
Speaker 1 (32:43):
In there is definitely Okay, Linda, thank you for calling in.
We should do appreciate it. Anybody else have any questions,
please give us a call four O nine eight nine
six five five eight four Jonathan, give us your phone
number one more time over talking about.
Speaker 2 (32:57):
It is four oh nine seven two seven for eight
four seven.
Speaker 1 (33:02):
Jonathan is his offices right here in downtown Beaumont. And
so give him a call if you if you need
any legal work done or have any questions. So, Jonathan,
we've been talking about, you know, the will and some
of the issues that can arise as a result of that.
I know a work around, that's my term, a work
(33:24):
around that some people like to look to is using
a Todd deed transfer on death deed and a lady
Bird deed who in my under which in my understanding,
those are two help navigate around the necessity of probate.
So talk to us a little bit about those and
how you feel about them and how you use that.
Speaker 2 (33:44):
All right, I do not use Todd's the transfer on
death deed. Okay, you know there are some situations where
they might be better, but I really feel lady Bird
deeds are better.
Speaker 1 (33:55):
Jonathan, I do not know the difference between the two,
So educate us.
Speaker 2 (33:59):
There's some differences about the ability of creditors to reach
them after the person's death. Both are susceptible to claims
from creditors, but a Todd transfer is more susceptible to
claims from creditors. Now, if there's a mortgage on the property,
you're not getting around that. But I'm talking about you know,
(34:20):
Larry had fifty thousand dollars in credit card debt. They're
going to a Todd They can much more easily get
to that piece of property. Interesting, and that's in the statute.
So a todd is a creature of statute. Creature of
statute that means it's that's what that's a lawyer talked for.
It was created by a statute. The legislator passed a
law and said this. The Lady birdded is a creature
(34:45):
of a professor in Florida who came up with this idea.
So we've always had these things called life estates, and
but always I mean back to days in England where
they instead of having you know, go into capital title
and signing things, they hand dirt to a person and
line up the children and beat them so they'll remember
and be able to testify later. So ever since those days,
(35:06):
we've had life estate deeds. Well, this professor came up
with this idea of an enhanced life estate deed, which
just reserves basically all the rights to the person granting
the life estate deed. A life of state deed just
says someone can have this property until this person dies,
and the person getting the property and the person who
(35:27):
dies they can be different people. So that's all a
life estate need, is an enhanced life estate deed is
a Todd and a lady bird deed, but they're just
different kinds.
Speaker 1 (35:38):
And so when somebody comes to see you and they
tell you their situation, and you can kind of make
a determination on what's going to be best for them, right.
Speaker 2 (35:45):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I will say I've never done a Todd,
I've only done late labor. And I'll also tell people that,
you know, while this is a good way to get
around probate, I like to use them in conjunction with
a trust because while the statute says a Todd is revocable,
and I think title companies honor that. That's the one
(36:08):
thing that Todd's have over lady bird deeds. They're both
completely revocable by the person who did them. But title companies,
for some reason, say I don't trust that for lady
bird deeds. So if you come to me and say
I want a lady bird deed because I don't want
to do probate, I'll say, well, we should do it
with a trust. Okay, if you leave, if the person
(36:32):
who gets the property when you pass away is the
trust and you're the trustee of the trust, you have
authority to you know, according to the title company, you
have authority to sign for the beneficiaries.
Speaker 1 (36:44):
Gotcha. We're going to dive more into trust when we
come back from our next break. I'm glad you mentioned
that you are listening to the Dana Simmons Show. This
is Andy Hemmings with Capital Title. And let me just
give us a quick plug here for Capital Title. If
you have any real estate transaction, you're you're buying a property,
you're selling a property, residential, commercial, rawland, whatever it is,
(37:07):
Capital Title can close that transaction for you, So please
keep us in mind. My phone number is four oh
nine six' five eight three six nine, Five happy to
answer any of your title related questions or real estate.
Questions we're going to be right back with The Dana Simmons.
Show hey, everybody and welcome back to The Dana Simmons.
(37:28):
Show this Is Andy hemmings With Capital. Title your guest.
Host dana's taking a little break today to be with
her family and her beautiful grand baby is having a
birthday party. Today So, dana if you're listening out, there
you have a wonderful time and we appreciate everything that
everything that you. Do all, Right, So, jonathan we were
(37:48):
just finishing up talking About ladybird deeds Versus todd deeds
and how you will do a ladybird, Deed but you
also recommend that they have a trust set. Up so
what is when would some one want to do a
trust rather than just having a will that's going to.
Speaker 2 (38:04):
Be, probated, okay when they want to avoid. Probate. Okay
there are other reasons to have a. Trust there are
lots of reasons to have. Trust if you're in the one,
percent the top one, percent where you have millions upon
millions of, dollars you will want trust set up to
avoid estate. TAXES a lot of people come in and
(38:27):
tell ME i want to trust to avoid estate. Taxes
And i'm, like, okay do you have over seven million
dollars in? Assets and they say, No And i'm, like,
okay well why do you think you need to avoid estate? Tax?
People it used to be around a million, dollars which
a good life insurance policy and a really nice home
In Southeast texas where homes aren't even really that. Expensive
(38:49):
we'll get you there back in the. Day but for
as long As i've practiced, law it's been at at
least five million.
Speaker 1 (38:56):
Dollars and so now it's seven million, dollars.
Speaker 2 (39:00):
So that's the NUMBER i. Use it's more than, that
but the current laws sunsets at the end of this
year beginning of next. Year it might get reinstated because
it was a Law trump passed in his first, term
and so you, Know i've heard that they want to
keep those tax, cuts so they might pass it in
(39:20):
his second. Term but you, KNOW i don't.
Speaker 1 (39:23):
Know so does that mean for someone who doesn't have
seven million dollars in, assets they don't need a trust
or is there still some compelling.
Speaker 2 (39:31):
REASONS i have a, TRUST i don't have seven million
dollars in. ASSETS i prefer it if you can wrap
your mind around the concept of a trust and the
steps you have to take to keep up with. IT
i think a trust is better than a will Be
could you skip over, probate which people stress. OUT i
don't think probate's that big of a deal In, texas
if you have a self proved, will you've got the.
(39:54):
Original probate's not that big of a. Deal it's not that,
expensive you, know compared to other states and other. Things but,
people even IF i sit there and tell them exactly
what's going to happen in. Court people get real nervous
and stressed out about. It but if you skip over,
probate it reduces the likelihood of, challenges it reduces the
(40:17):
court's interference in your, plans and it's something that can
be used during your lifetime as well to manage your
affairs if you become. Incompetent, Okay so then there's other
reasons to have, it you, know if you're avoiding probate
because Of medicaid. Reasons if you pass away and you've
(40:37):
been On, medicaid there are certain assets that are exempt
from counting your resources Of. Medicaid if those pass through,
probate The state Of texas gets a bite at that.
Apple oh. Wow if they go outside of probate under current,
law The state Of texas does not get a bite
at that. Apple and that's different in different. States the
states get to choose whether or not they get to
(40:59):
go after probate assets or, not, okay or whether or
not they get to go after non probate. Assets The
state Of texas, says we.
Speaker 1 (41:06):
Don't, Okay so let's get your phone number one more
time as we come in here for a.
Speaker 2 (41:12):
Landing four oh nine seven two seven four eight four.
Speaker 1 (41:15):
Seven all, Right so if you you know you're listening
and you've been thinking about getting that will set, up
it's just been something then you keep putting it off
because you don't want to think about. It let me
tell you. What it's just so important to get these
things handled, now even though it's uncomfortable to think about.
It it will save you and it will save your
your family a lot of headache on down the road
(41:38):
to Uh to to Call jonathan and get things set.
Speaker 2 (41:41):
Up, YEAH i guarantee you you're gonna die, someday that's.
Speaker 1 (41:45):
Right, yeah we're talking about how the only thing they,
say the only thing certain is death and, Taxes, well
taxes you cannot pay them and go to prison or
just be really good at avoiding. Them so even taxes
aren't a aren't a for for sure. Thing, Yeah so you, Know,
jonathan we just really appreciate you and our relationship with
you At Capital. TITLE i know we do a lot
(42:08):
of business with you and you've become a resource for
us and we appreciate.
Speaker 2 (42:11):
IT i appreciate. Y'all, yeah y'all, know y'all, know y'all's
business we.
Speaker 1 (42:15):
Do we've we've got you, know over one hundred and
fifteen offices in the state Of. Texas now we're all Over,
texas but we can actually close transactions all. Across we
have relationships with title companies all over the, nation and
we're opening title companies all over the all over the,
country and so, yeah a lot of people don't know
that we can handle. EVERYTHING i, mean we deal with
(42:36):
some very very large commercial transactions as, well and we're
just we're here to help. You we've got offices In, Beaumont,
lumberton Orange, Port, arthur and even down In Crystal. Beach so,
anyway we're here for, you and we really appreciate.
Speaker 2 (42:51):
You, JONATHAN i appreciate.
Speaker 1 (42:53):
Y'ALL i want everybody out there to have a Wonderful,
saturday a wonderful. WEEKEND i think this weather's finally clearing
up out, there and enjoy. Things we appreciate. You listening
to The Danis Simmons, show this has Been Andy hemmings
With Capital title
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