January 19, 2022 • 45 mins
A real thrill to talk to Karina about her role on 24, as well as Orange Is The New Black, Dangerous Minds, Crash and Lean On Me, and the movie set where she met Kiefer Sutherland for the first time!
When Canada got cable TV, she was on my screen several times a day, and you can find her now on NBC's The Blacklist.
Karina brought her A-Game to the podcast, and we are honored that we spent the time catching up with her.
Follow Karina Arroyave on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/karinaarroyave
When Canada got cable TV, she was on my screen several times a day, and you can find her now on NBC's The Blacklist.
Karina brought her A-Game to the podcast, and we are honored that we spent the time catching up with her.
Follow Karina Arroyave on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/karinaarroyave
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:34):
Karina Araya is here to join uson the podcast, and it was a
thrill. You will remember her asJamie Ferrell, but also from so many
other things, and we'll get intothat as well. I mean there's a
lot of movies that I saw growingup that I want to talk about as
well today. Yay that yeah,we can. We can go and do
lean on me for example. Ohthat was my first That's what I understand.
(00:55):
Yeah, yeah, and in Broadwayas well. Right, you have
love for the as well, Soyeah, we'd love to cover all that
with you. But welcome to thepodcast. Well, thank thank you,
guys. I'm really happy to behere. Yes, thank you. Justin
Ryan, you guys they're really nice. I know you were all like like
avid listeners by seeing their faces andtheir smiles. This is a good a
(01:19):
good bunch. Awesome, thank you, awesome, thank you. How did
you get involved with the twenty fourin season one and and what was your
experience like playing the character Jamie Ferrellin season one? I mean we were
big, we were a big fanof you in season one. I think
your role was was awesome and theaudience loved your character and in the storylines
(01:42):
that you that that that was writtenfor you. So thank you. We
loved watching you. So what wasyour experience Like, well, you know,
the the audition itself was last minute. I got a call saying can
you be at this audition? AndI only had a few hours, so
I just had to like get dressedand like you know, and I saw
(02:05):
the material and you know, itwas the I auditioned with that first scene,
you know, when you see hercoming back from the club, you
know, and she had and shehad this attitude towards Nina, you know,
and I was like, all right, yeah, I can I can
do this, said I think yousaid, like how long are we going
to be here for? Yeah?Yea yeah yeah yeah yeah. So so
(02:31):
I really didn't have a chance toeven really get nervous about it. It
was just the kind of thing whereI remember putting on like some music I
always use music for for auditions,and I remember I felt that she was
just this sort of very free spirit, and I just remember putting on some
music that kind of matched that,and I was like, well, sometimes
(02:53):
last minute auditions you take the pressureoff because they're like, well I didn't
have time to premiere, You're gonnaget with you get you know. Uh
so so yeah, so I justwent and I and I showed up,
and I know I've I've spoken aboutthis before. Uh. Everyone there was
blonde and tall. Yeah, andand and I remember thinking to myself,
(03:21):
all right, there's no way I'mgoing to get this. Let me just
have some fun. And that wasmy attitude. And so I I go
into the audition and the casting directoris there, and and Stephen Hopkins is
in there. Uh and and whenwhen I finished my audition, and this
I've never spoken about the casting director, which, oh gosh, I'm gonna
(03:45):
get crucified if I if I Ithink it was a Debbie man Will a
couple of weeks ago. Yeah,okay, that's what I thought, but
I just didn't want to get itwrong. So so Debbie Debbie raises her
hand like this, like like afterI do my audition, she just raises
her hand. And I thought tomyself, all right, I guess I
(04:06):
did something right, you know.And then and then that was it.
And then I didn't hear for awhile, but I had a feeling that
I that I did well, butI didn't think I got it. But
anyway, so, uh, toanswer your second question. I mean that
was a dream role, a dreamjob, a dream cast, dream directors.
(04:31):
I mean, the only bad thingabout it was that I got killed,
right, Yeah, it was thatalways plan? Was that plan for
you to get killed? Like fromthe season? Like, did you,
uh, what was it expected thatyou would only be on for the first
season or I know, in somesome circumstances, actors and actresses leave a
(04:53):
show because you know, contracts endor or or they have another show they're
going to work on. So wasthat unexpected? Oh, that was totally
unexpected. I in a way,in a way, when I before I
started getting more involved, before Jamie'sbecame more of the the you know,
(05:14):
involved in the plotline, I kindof felt like I was sort of safe,
you know, because you know,I was just sort of there on
the side doing the you know,my hacker stuff, you know. But
then at the same time, Ialso felt like I'm being underused. That
was That's what I thought, youknow. I was like, I am
(05:34):
capable of more than what they're givingme. But it was just a thought.
It was just a thought, youknow. And then it was like,
well, careful what you pray for, because then it was like okay,
you are to be used here yougo, you know, but it
was it was a total surprise.I remember the moment that I that I
(05:56):
read the script and and I saw, you know, what happened to her.
But I thought Stephen Hopkins told methat it was possible, that that
I just go to the hospital andthat I come back right. Well,
yeah, yeah, which arguably it'sstill a possibility because we didn't really see
the body as far as the audiencestandpoint, Yes, you might still be
(06:20):
alive. Oh you didn't see me, didn't I remember being in dead makeup?
Do you remember? Yeah, wesaw we saw like really grainy footage.
But that was really it. Imean yeah. And the only reason,
the only reason I say that isbecause of twenty four. Unless you
see the body, or unless it'slike I'd beheading or something other than that,
(06:43):
it's pretty much fair game on Imean, certainly, you know several
people came back years later. Ilike your thinking, right, I love
it. I like your thinking.My theory is that you're still out there,
you know, maybe you know,recovering or have recovered. And I
love that gone out in the field. Maybe I don't know. Plus,
plus you were I mean, Jamiewas framed horrible. It was it was
(07:04):
terrible. It was mean what theydid, it was terrible. What Nina
did, my goodness, Yeah,brings you alongside, makes you feel like
we're friends and we're getting along,and then it just doesn't work out that
But I didn't know that. Ididn't know all this until after I was
gone. You know, that's whenthey did all that, because my understanding
is that's when they figured it outtoo. Yeah, yeah, no,
(07:27):
because they were writing as they weregoing. Yeah. Yeah. It was
brilliant, brilliant what they did.And I think you were gone before the
thirteen episode, Like there was theoriginal thirteen episode run right where they were.
They were given thirteen episodes to ashow called twenty four, so you
were gone before that. And itseems like what they did was they came
(07:48):
up with the way. Because Ialways call it the Jamie Ferrell moment,
and it's in the last episode ofthe final episode of season one when we
find out what really happened, rightJack, it's this footage and it changes
the entire show. But I callit the Jamie Farrell moment because that changed
everything. That's where we learned Ninawas Nina Myers was was them all all
(08:13):
along? Yeah? It was thatmoment. Yes, I mean, no,
no, no, I do youknow. I had forgotten and I
don't know how I remembered this,but I'd forgotten that I came back to
shoot that, I thought, soyeah, completely airbrushed from my memory,
probably because I was so I washappy and sad at the same time.
(08:33):
I was like, look to goback for one day, you know,
yeah, sure, yeah, yeah. But even though it was it was
it was it a good death asfar as you were concerned? Was it
well? Man? I mean itwas great. Uh. Cinematically I thought,
you know, it was very welldone. You know how they did
(08:54):
it, you know all the youknow, all the folks you know,
behind the camera, and the writingof it. I thought was, which
is the case with everything on thatshow, just so clever. My concern
was can I get there emotionally forbecause initially when I shot it, it
was shot as a suicide. SoI had to get to that point where
(09:20):
at any minute I could make thatdecision. And so that's you know,
that for the viewers to decide ifI, you know, if I did
that. But but that was wheremy concern was so, but I do
think overall it was it was agood death, as you say, for
sure, Yeah, I mean asgood as they can be. I guess,
yeah, yeah. I I benedit after season one was done,
(09:43):
so I watched it straight through,and I remember we watched what straight through
seasons. I bought the DVDs andwatched it. Yeah, I didn't wait
week Season one was the only week, the only season I didn't wait week
to week. I was able towatch it all the way through. But
I remember feeling really good. Again, it's a terrible thing to say,
(10:05):
but I felt really good that you'reyou were vindicated because we understood it to
be a suicide and then found out, no, it was treachery. It
wasn't a suicide. It wasn't youweren't you know, It wasn't a despondent
move on your part, even thoughall of the way you played it,
you know, with with you know, dealing with your was it your son?
I think, Kyle y, Yeah, and that was that was so
(10:28):
tied into your character. It's someof the scenes, the scenes you had
with Carlos and with Sarah where they'reinterrogating you, is wrenching on every level,
because as a parent you start tounderstand those things and you know what
you would do for your what youwould do for your child, and and
all that that kind of stuff.So I was I was a new parent
at the time, so I wasstarting to understand kind of those you know,
(10:52):
what you would do for your child. But the play between the three
of you and those scenes was prettyamazing. Oh it was. You know,
it was emotionally brutal, but atthe same time so great to work
with the two of them. Oh, they're both so brilliant. Just wow.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, itreally established the show in many ways.
(11:16):
YEA, from from a viewers standpoint, you know, we're talking twenty
years of twenty four and why twentyfour you know works twenty years later.
And I think from an audience standpoint, you know, twenty four work because
they had, you know, amazingcharacters like yourself, like Jamie. The
storylines we were refreshing and and andnew, and they just like original and
(11:41):
unique and plus twenty four always tookus an emotional ride as well, a
very emotional ride, kept this sunny, kept us on the edge of our
seat, I think every episode.So you're like, you know, at
the end of each episode, you'rejumping up and panicking and having a panic
attack. You're yeah, and you'readrenaline. And it had a lot of
(12:03):
action too. So I think allthat combined and the real time format,
I think it just made twenty fourblow up in popularity. Yes, And
you know, because I went backand I and I watched everything. But
it took me a while to beable to watch everything because it was I
(12:24):
was just I was I was reallysad. It was hard for me to
watch right right afterwards. But Iwent back and I watched everything, and
you know the way that Keifer justdrove that show. And I'm not I'm
not saying it was just him,but he really just his his work is
so it's never dull. I mean, it's just it's it's like this engine
(12:48):
that's just just going and it's justalways on. You know, He's really
so captivating to watch, Like henever has a moment where you're just like,
oh, you know whatever. No, it's always riveting, it's always
rhyting. And I just felt andI feel that that had a big part
(13:11):
in it as well, because thathit the way that he works matches the
real time format, right got it. Yes, yes, Now what was
the challenge of you coming on andspeaking of I mean the word do we
keep hearing from different people is thepulse of the show that there was a
real pulse to it. It wasn'tlike you took a break and then you
(13:33):
run to the store like it wasjust constantly going. But there had never
really been a real time show onTV. What was it like coming for
you, joining a show that hadreally never done this before. Well,
I personally myself, I I didn'tthink of it as a real time show.
(13:54):
And when you're acting in it,at least for me, I didn't
feel that it was a real timeshow because it was just you're just you're
doing the scene as you would anyother scene, you know what I'm saying.
So from from from in front ofthe camera, it was I I
couldn't really tell that difference. Honestly, Does that make sense? Yes?
(14:16):
Absolutely? Yeah, you're in themiddle of it, doing it. Everything
else is being edited around you.Exactly, Yeah, exactly, exactly.
Yeah, but still thrilling and andjust god, just the writing is so
good that it was just a treatto want to read those scripts every week,
(14:37):
you know, And yeah, justgreat. Were there motty parallels to
theater coming from your theater background todoing twenty four? Well, yeah,
now that you mention it, itwas probably the most sequential, you know,
in terms of Yeah, so sothe sequence it not that everything was
(15:01):
sequential, but I think they triedto keep it as sequential as possible because
of the whole real time aspect.So in that sense, Yeah, that's
a great observation. And how didyou did you what was your experience like
working with the writers and the producersand everyone involved from the crew and the
(15:22):
network and all that. Well,the producer that I mostly interacted with was
Joel Joel Surnow, and he wasgreat. He just you know, not
a bad word to say about him, just very you know, sometimes a
(15:43):
producer can make you nervous. Hewas, but he was not that,
you know he and you knew thathe was a big deal, you know,
because you know, he's Joel Surnow. But but he didn't give off
that energy of like intimidating sometimes likehovering, like checking out, making sure
(16:06):
the kids are behaving kind of energy. No, So he he was a
real, real sweetheart, real sweetheart. In terms of the writers, I
don't know that. I mean,I think that they were round, but
I never really like collaborated with themor anything like that. It was most
of the directors and and with thecrew. It was just wow, you
(16:27):
know, match made in heaven forfor all of us working together. The
Yeah, I love your story ofDebbie and raising her arms and reacting.
I never forget that we talked,We talked to her, and when you
told when he said that, Iwent, I'm not surprised, having having
met her, I'm not surprised thatthat was her reaction. Does that happen
(16:48):
very often in auditions? No?No, which is why it stood out
right. It's why yeah, butshe is, uh, you know,
there's oh gosh, I'm gonna getin trouble for saying. You're like,
oh, good, say it,say it. There are I feel like
there were to me two categories,maybe more, but I kind of placed
(17:12):
the casting directors in two categories.There are ones that are they're all business
and they and it feels just likewith any profession or with anybody, it
feels harder to connect with their humanity, you know. And then there are
others that you know, they're justfriendlier and they make the audition so much
(17:36):
easier because they do let down thatguard and you do connect with the money
human level, and that's where Debbieis and so she's she has always made
me feel at ease just because becauseof her. Sure did she ever explain
her reaction to you? Well,when I got it, I understood.
(17:59):
I think the set that I gotwhen she did that was that they'd been
seeing people that weren't getting it whateverit was supposed to be, and then
somehow I went in there and itwas like, oh, she got it
or you know what I mean,she gets it or something like that.
Yeah. Yeah, And it makesme wonder is the fact that there were
only a couple of hours in betweenthe time you got the audition to the
time you did it. You know, like you said, here I am,
(18:22):
this is this is this is whoI am. Yeah I was.
Yeah. I think it gives youan extra level of because you just go
in there and you're just like,I'm just gonna have fun. Yeah yeah,
yeah, Yeah, I get theimpression too, just from a lot
of our conversations. The idea ofwhen we knew there was a fit,
we there was no it was unequivocable, Like I can't imagine anybody else playing
(18:45):
Jamie Ferrell. Really, yeah,you fit that part. It's such a
nice thing to say thank you,but to play it as a mother as
well, and to have that thataspect to it. I mean that certainly,
you know, they're there werecharacters onthe show that we're parents, and
it certainly affected, you know,how they how they made decisions and all
that kind of in the midst ofsaving the world. Yes, I mean
(19:08):
the stakes were very high, butvery high. Yeah. No, I
get the impression too that once weknew this was the one we you know,
we stopped looking like this is becausebecause in many ways they said they
weren't sure exactly what they wanted untilthey saw it. So like Debbie raising
her hands like a touchdown, Iguess so yeah, yeah, yeah,
(19:30):
yeah, I'll never forget that moment. But but I still didn't think that
I got it right, you know, because I was I was like,
I'm the only one that looks likeme here. I don't you know what
I mean, But there you go. Yeah, no, congratulates, but
we're a little late, but congratulationson getting the role. We're congratulating you.
Twenty years later, twenty years laterwe're a little overdue, but yes,
(19:51):
we listen. I'll I'll take it. It was such a good experience
that any you know, like evenlike doing this podcast and it just floods
me back with all these wonderful memories. So I'm grateful to you guys for
that. That's good to hear.It was Ryan started the podcast, and
then you know, I've been joininghim because I've been getting him all the
guests for this for the podcast.Great. I think I think I think
(20:14):
I've gotten him like over thirty sevenguests so far. Yeah, you're you're
guest number thirty eight, which isand a lot of that, you know.
I just I've just been persistent,you know, booking guests and emailing
agents and and uh, I mean, I don't know if we'll get all
fifteen hundred cast members. But well, you're doing a good job justin but
(20:37):
I mean, I think we'd haveto quit our full time jobs for that.
Well, it's so interesting because I'mI'm I'm a lawyer by training.
And when you when you were describingcasting directors, I could say the same
thing about lawyers. There's a handthere's a handful of them that show their
humanity, and then the rest arejust poker face all the time, whether
it's in social situations or work situations, and they can't tell the difference.
(21:00):
But I don't think I don't thinkI'll get in trouble for saying what you
said, because that's just a fact. Okay, Yeah, yeah, Well
what's is there been a fan interactionthat's that stood up to you or gosh,
you know, I'm sure there hasbeen, you mean for twenty four
well four or for anything? Reallyyeah? Yeah, Oh my gosh,
(21:23):
Oh I'm gonna blank. I knowit. You know, there have been
so many that it's it's hard topick one, but now on because you
know, there wasn't social media backthen, right, yeah, so it's
almost like now a lot of ittakes place on social media, you know,
(21:45):
people messaging you or leaving comments orall of that. But oh gosh,
I there have just been so manythat I don't I don't know that
I that one particularly stands out tome right at this moment. I know,
as soon as we log off,I'm gonna go, Oh, you
can call back, we'll record it, we can edit it. Absolutely.
(22:08):
It's one of those things too thatwhen you when you said that. It
reminds me that, you know,there was, like I said, the
Jamie Farrell moment when we find outthat it wasn't suicide, we find out
that it was actually Nana's treachery thatled to your death or supposed death.
Sorry we'll just say suppose death,but led to this. But he Jack
(22:29):
got it on his phone, whichin two thousand and one, two thousand
and two wasn't really possible except thatnow like he like the actual file was
sent to his phone and then heopened it up on his phone or on
his device and was able to watchit. But I don't think that was
actually possible twenty years if they wereahead of themselves, ahead of themselves,
they were always like five minutes intothe future, yeah or yeah, yeah.
(22:53):
And it dawned on me. Iwas I was listening watching the show
on my phone on my way todo an interview, and I, oh,
my goodness, twenty four was likeso right from season one, was
so far ahead of the game thatactually started to predict some of these things.
But yeah, no, it's evenwith I mean, this was not
a prediction, but just the eerinessof you know, nine to eleven happening
(23:18):
right around that time, and thenthat scene that they had to edit on
the plane, you know, andeven having even some of the presidents right,
you know, they had David Palmer, so having a having the first
black president show kind of you know, you could say that twenty four maybe
led to the presidency of President Obamaor or help or help the world,
(23:45):
help the world to visualize it right, to be able to see. Yeah,
you're part of something huge. Yeah, and it's groundbreaking on many levels.
Yeah, yes, very groundbreaking.We brought Hollywood to TV because in
that year, the year that youstarted, no film actors except Kiefer and
(24:06):
I think there was one other thatwas doing TV. Now James where the
Yeah, we're the complete opportion.Yeah, well, I think, yes,
absolutely that I remember that change,and I remember that it had something
according to how my agent at thetime explained it to me, it had
(24:27):
something to do with the uh,you know, the start of reality television
really changed things. And because Iremember my audition level dropping significantly as reality
shows started to come, you know, come to the scene. Uh.
(24:47):
And so what happened is that realityshows started to they really changed the game
and everything started to for example,like you know, movie stars started to
do television. People who were seriesregulars started to do guest spots. You
know, people who did guest spotsstarted to do co stars. It was
(25:11):
like everything just kind of changed inthat way in it and not I don't
I mean not for the better,right right, each for actors, right
yeah, no, no, no, no no, So I mean I
was to change gears a little bit. Yeah. There's several films that you've
(25:32):
been in that I've seen in thetheater. So I saw the dangerous minds
I saw in the theater, crashedI saw at the theater when it came
out. But then there's a holewhen when Canada got cable, it was
like a magic day for me.And I'm pretty sure I didn't leave the
house for two months when Canada gotcable. And I remember watching one of
the movies I watched several times duringthat that Love Affair with Cable. Lean
(25:56):
On Me was definitely in there.When eight seven was in there, Oh,
the Cowboy Way, Oh, thatwas the first time I worked with
Kiefer Wow, really really? Anddid that happen for me? And I
was like I went up to himand I was like we worked and he
was like, oh hi, wow, and he remembered and yeah, that's
it. But I mean those arethe films that I watched over and over
(26:18):
again. Tell me about how yougot because lean On Me was your first
film role, right with Morgan Freemanof all people, yes and everybody else?
What was that like? And howdid how did you get there?
Well? You know I had beenyou know, I went to not to
go too far back, but Iwent to the high school performing arts,
okay, and so we we hada showcase at the right before we were
(26:41):
graduating, and these agents came tosee us. And so this agency called
me in and I went and Iauditioned for them, and they just started
sending me out like without signing me. So I went right from high school
to just I just started auditioning rightaway. And and then you know,
I've been auditioning for I guess maybea little less of a year. And
(27:06):
then the only other thing I'd doneis an episode of The Equalizer. You
guys remember that? Remember they justbrought it back? Actually, oh right,
exactly, yes, Latifah awesome.And anyway, so I go in.
I just went in for this movieand I was also sort of freelancing
(27:26):
with this other agent, and sothey when when I got the callback,
they called the other agent by mistake, and this other agent was so upset
with me that I was freelancing eventhough I never signed me. He told
them I'd gone to Puerto Rico.Oh come on, I swear to god,
(27:48):
I'm not making this up. SoI almost lost that opportunity. But
then I think they were the castingerswere like, way, that's weird that
she would just go to Puerto Ricoafter auditioning for this film. And then
they realized, oh, it's theother agency whatever, And so I almost
lost that role because of that,because the exactly exactly. But anyway,
(28:11):
it was you know, the energy, uh that we all had because we
were all so new, you know, it was all like our first movie,
and and it was just we wereall so excited. Everyone was just
very excited, and I think Ifeel like that energy carried through the whole
shoot and it was it was justa wonderful experience. Awesome, awesome.
(28:36):
Yeah, I'm pretty sure I watchedit at least a dozen times during that
that time because it was a verysuch an uplifting movie too, Like it
really was and I feel like itis that kind of movie that you could
just watch over and over. Yeah, because there's so many different elements to
it, you know, and theneach time you watch it, you're like,
oh, I never realized that,you know. Oh blah blah blah.
You know. Yeah, yeah,you really worked with some of the
(28:57):
three three of films great educators MichellePfeiffer, Sam Jackson, and Morgan Freeman.
For sure, Like that's when becausemy wife is a teacher, and
those are the movies we go backand watch. We'll go back and watch
Dangerous Minds. I remember we sawCoolio and Concert a couple of years ago
and we had Dangerous Minds. Hedid. I mean it was a huge
(29:18):
hit. I mean that that youknow. What I love about that song
is that it's it's it's actually heartbreaking, yes it is, you know,
it's it's really heartbreaking. But thathook is so it just draws you in.
It's very you know the that thatthat hook. Yeah, So that
that's I love that about that song, the depth to it. Yeah,
(29:41):
yeah, I agree, I agree, And again I remember it was a
huge hit the ninety five It wasa huge, It was everywhere everywhere,
so yes, very cool. Yeah, and you also have done you do
theater, yeah, you know,whenever you can. Yeah, how how
did you get into that? Well? I think did I I'm trying to
(30:03):
figure out if I did theater firstor film, because my first play was
Marisol, but I think I'd alreadydone Lean. I think I think I
did film first. Yeah. Yeah, I think my agents were you know,
I was so young, they werejust sending me out for you know
whatever, you know. And yeah, and the first role that I booked
(30:29):
in theater was was Marisol, whichwas the lead role, which was I'm
on stage the whole time. Wow. Wow, I got thrown into the
lions Den. Yeah. But itwas a great way for me to start
because every other job at theater jobexcept for water by this moonful after that
was easy in comparison to the firstone. But also, you know,
(30:56):
my training was in theater mainly atthe school. Yeah, at the school,
and I actually kind of had tolearn on camera work as I went
along. Okay, and even youknow, even when I did twenty four,
to be perfectly honest, I stilldidn't know what I was doing camera
wise, because I remember Stephen Hopkinstaking me aside and going and saying you
(31:23):
just have to listen. Garden knowswhat I was doing, like all these
faces or whatever, and He's like, just listen. And it was a
really big lesson. And I feellike that's how I learned to do on
camera work just is by the feedbackthe directors gave me as I as I
got these jobs. Yeah. Wow, that's like a big takeaway from from
(31:48):
twenty four to learn that you knowthat lesson? Oh yeah. And and
and Kevin Reynolds, who directed oneeight seven right, did the same thing.
He said to me, he said, your your your challenge is that
you think you're not doing enough andyou are. That stayed with me and
(32:09):
I still struggle with that, yes, Justin. And speaking of lessons learned,
uh, do you ever do youdo you have any advice that you
would that you would share lessons learnedfrom you over your career. Do you
have any advice that you would sharewith students wanting to get into the business
of acting or or or television orfilm itself. Yeah? Well, I
(32:34):
was asked this in another interview recently, and so part of me is like,
say a different answer, Carena.But but briefly, I'll say what
I I'll say what I what Isaid there, and then I'll also elaborate
on it. So it's you know, it's it's actually different because I actually
did want to elaborate it after afterwatching the interview. I guess it's two.
(33:01):
Make sure that you're getting into actingfor the reasons that are going to
be beneficial to you, you know, in terms of because what I did
was I used acting as a assomething that would give me self worth,
(33:23):
which I then realized was a hugemistake because you know, self worth can
only come from one thing, andthat's from yourself, and I was trying
to gain it externally, you know. So I would say, really look
deep within yourself, and if there'ssomething in you that that needs healing,
(33:51):
don't try to heal it just throughacting. Acting can be part of the
healing process. You know, AmI making sense? Yeah? Yeah.
And and the other thing is,and sort of to elaborate on that is,
I have given this a lot ofthought. The state of Hollywood and
(34:13):
and and and the whole business isyou have to remember that it's it's man
made. Acting in itself is notman made. It's it's a natural thing.
Like if there were no cameras,if there were no Hollywood, if
there were no studios, you know, we would be the ones telling stories
and then mimicking the roles, youknow. And then and then my dad
(34:36):
said, what did you do that? You know what I mean? And
then Mom was like, anyeah,you know, whatever it is, right,
So we would be those people,right, you know, amongst amongst
the you know, the you know, the tribes or the groups or whatever.
So to hold on to what ispure about acting? And two,
whatever is man made about it,whether it's uh, whether it's fame or
(35:00):
the way the business works, whichI have a lot of issues, sure,
So so whatever's not pure, don'thold on to it. That's you
didn't create that. So done.Let don't let that be your problem,
you know. So if you didn't, like I was, I was reading
something on mayor of East to EastTown. Goodness, my wife's watching that
(35:25):
downstairs right now. It's stunning,extraordinary, I mean, just but my
point is that I read something aboutthe writer and why they cast someone.
And I won't say who because Idon't want to give away you know,
spoilers haven't seen it. So whythey cast someone? And and the writer
(35:47):
was like, well, you know, yeah, they did a good job,
but they also happened to look alot like the person that they're related
to. And I just thought,oh my god, it really is so
out of your hands sometimes, youknow. So. So my point is
that kind of stuff, don't holdon to it, hold on to the
(36:09):
purity of your art, and letthat always be your guide. Makes sense.
It did make sense, And Iget the impression that storytelling is in
your blood. As you said,you would be telling if there was no
Hollywood, you know, you wouldbe telling stories and acting them out.
I've never talked about this, butwhen I was in grade school, I
(36:31):
did the storytelling contests and for severalyears, I think it's fourth, fifth
and sixth grade, and I alwayswon for the school, and I always
won for the district, and Ialways lost for the borough. Within reach.
It was within reach, my goodness. Thank you for that. Thank
(36:54):
you for acknowledging that that holes it. You brought me back to like my
roots roots, you know. Well, I mean again, you told the
story. I'm gonna bring us toCarla. Oh yeah, Carla is Carla
alive because Carla as a lawyer.Okay, watching that scene in the courtroom,
(37:14):
you say I'm not doing anything untilI get my lawyer. Like it
was very it's probably it's probably I'veseen it more recently probably than you have.
But there is the scene where you'restanding in front of a judge and
you're saying, I know my rights, I know, you know, that
piece of paper says that, butI don't believe that, and I don't
believe that guy's piece of paper.And then the next person comes up and
(37:34):
says the same thing. Yeah,and then she says she says, well,
I was gonna say it before shedid. Yeah, she just copied
me. But that was the beginningof our our our you know, our
bond and her friendship. Yes,absolutely absolutely. That was one of my
favorite things about how they wrote Carla, because they didn't write her as because
(37:55):
often when you see you know,immigrants portrayed, there's sort of you know,
subservient and sort of more you know, meek, and but they did.
They just went all out with herand they you know, and then
somebody pointed this out to me thatshe was she was a little like Maria
and lean on me when you know, h Freeman was like, you want
(38:15):
to be a lawyer and then yearslater, here I am playing this immigrant
who thinks she's who you know,worked at a lawyer's office, and so
now she has all this knowledge andcan defect, you know, handle her
own. Yeah. I mean,like I said, the power of TV
and film to put you in thein the place where you can start to
(38:37):
understand that scene in the courtroom whenyou see all those women behind you know
again, behind the the the inthe courtroom, all being treated like criminals.
Yeah, it puts you right inthere and says this is reality,
this is where, this is where, this is what actually happens. And
as you said, I'm making thatconnection now with with lean on Me.
(38:58):
The idea is that she didn't riskrepond like she was supposed to respond.
And I think if that scene haddragged out more, we would have seen
more people standing up saying well,I'm going to say that too, exactly.
I think another show might have mighthave made a twenty minute scene out
of that where everybody stands up anddoes the same thing and gets the same
treatment. Yeah. But but itwas fascinating because, like I said,
(39:20):
exactly what you said, there wasno subservience there, there was no bowing
down. It was like, Iknow who I am, I know my
rights, and I know I'm inAmerica, and I know America has some
understanding of human rights. And I'masking you two in vocalos right now,
which I thought was really Oh.I love I love that about her so
much, in the way that theywrote her, and and I you know,
(39:44):
I I look at these characters andI learned from them, you know,
and I want to and I wantto be like them. Yeah,
yeah, which makes it especially heartbreakingat you know, at the end of
the at the end of the series, when she's kind of left, and
again, my theory, my theory, just like Jamie, they're still alive,
They're still fighting. You know howmany people are happy, so happy
(40:07):
hearing you say that right now,because I get so many messages like that
going, people asking me, doyou think she's alive? Do you think
she's alive? And I remember Iwas asked that in a sort of a
written interview that I did, andI remember saying, well, realistically,
right, physical, physical, yeah, but but you know there's there's a
(40:31):
whole other realm beyond that, inthe realm of possibility, right, So
so I love I love that theory. I do because in television, right,
television and film, they always saynever say never. So yeah,
so you never you never know youknow what will happen in TV. So
(40:51):
anything anything is possible in the inTV when it comes to whether a character
is alive or not alive or yeah, we believe your character are alive.
I love it. Look what theydid and Will and Grace like what kids
that never happened and then they justwent and just rewrote like you know,
(41:12):
like yeah it was yeah, keepgoing absolutely. Yeah. Well, we
want to be mindful of your time, but we are there. Is there
anything we didn't cover that that you'dlike to talk about? Well, I
kind of want to talk to yourwife about mayor of Easton. Yeah,
I've got to catch up. Ohmy god. If you want a I'll
(41:36):
say this, Uh, if youwant a masterclass in acting, watch the
acting on that show. I meanKate Winslet just just I mean, one
of the most incredible performances I've everseen. Wow, wow, And I
think, oh when you when yousee it, if you see it,
(41:57):
you'll I think you'll go oh that'swhy she's yeah yeah yeah. And Evan
Peters, Yes, he is nowone of my and I've never seen his
work before. No, there's alot that I don't watch a lot.
No, but so much, there'sso much exactly exactly. He is now
one of my favorite actors. Anyway, Sorry I went to that, but
(42:20):
oh no, no, no,no, Well that's a good point.
I mean a lot of Certainly,for fans of twenty four, we say
that twenty four gave a certain pedigree, so that, for example, if
I see that you're on a SVU, for example, I'm gonna watch that
episode because I know it's if you'reinvolved, it's gonna be it's gonna be
worth watching. Or if there's aTV show, like they said when you
(42:42):
joined Orange Is a New Black,the same thing. It was like,
Okay, I'm gonna I'm gonna continuewatching because like i'd like, you know,
we like watching to see what otherpeople are doing, you know,
down the line, and we knowthat there's a level of quality because there's
so much TV right now, Yes, how do you sort through it?
And you kind of find, youknow, Howard Gordon's involved in the show,
or Keeper is involved in the show, or you're involved in the show,
(43:04):
and that gives us at least aplace of credibility to you know,
really, just like you said inrecommending mayor of East Town, the same
kind of thing. Oh we seethat as a as a recommendation. Yeah,
oh absolutely, I mean I have. I mean, I'll okay now,
I'm mindful of your time because I'mgonna live on. But I'll just
say the last thing is that show. In watching the arc of that show,
(43:30):
there were two moments that made mesob uncontrollably, uncontrollably, and so
I don't know if you your viewerswant to write to you or find me
and tell me, they can guesswhat those two moments were. Uncontrollably just
(43:50):
it's so moving, because what's thebest way to find you if they want
to just my name on Instagram?I guess okay onsta excellent, excellent.
Yeah. My wife, she didnot want to have anything. She didn't
want anything spoiled. She said,I watch it. I was like,
you finish the rest of that story, just yeah, you finished it last
(44:10):
night. I did. I did, but I, oh gosh, I
knew there will never be another timewhen I'm about to watch the finale of
Mariba's Town, and I wanted todraw it out as long as possible watch
it right, and I was like, I have self control, I could
(44:31):
wait another hour. And I waslike, yeah, just bravo. But
but bravo for so many reasons.And the main reason is the mental health
aspect of it, because we needthat, especially now, especially now.
Yes, well, thank you verymuch, Krino, Thank you guys your
(44:54):
insight and stories and and and yourrecommendations, like we we take those very
seriously. So we enjoy seeing yougo on screen, we enjoy hearing from
you, and we're grateful that you'vejoined us today on the podcast Technical Barrister
Karina Araya is here to join uson the podcast, and it was a
thrill. You will remember her asJamie Ferrell, but also from so many
other things, and we'll get intothat as well. I mean there's a
lot of movies that I saw growingup that I want to talk about as
well today. Yay that yeah,we can. We can go and do
lean on me for example. Ohthat was my first That's what I understand.
(00:55):
Yeah, yeah, and in Broadwayas well. Right, you have
love for the as well, Soyeah, we'd love to cover all that
with you. But welcome to thepodcast. Well, thank thank you,
guys. I'm really happy to behere. Yes, thank you. Justin
Ryan, you guys they're really nice. I know you were all like like
avid listeners by seeing their faces andtheir smiles. This is a good a
(01:19):
good bunch. Awesome, thank you, awesome, thank you. How did
you get involved with the twenty fourin season one and and what was your
experience like playing the character Jamie Ferrellin season one? I mean we were
big, we were a big fanof you in season one. I think
your role was was awesome and theaudience loved your character and in the storylines
(01:42):
that you that that that was writtenfor you. So thank you. We
loved watching you. So what wasyour experience Like, well, you know,
the the audition itself was last minute. I got a call saying can
you be at this audition? AndI only had a few hours, so
I just had to like get dressedand like you know, and I saw
(02:05):
the material and you know, itwas the I auditioned with that first scene,
you know, when you see hercoming back from the club, you
know, and she had and shehad this attitude towards Nina, you know,
and I was like, all right, yeah, I can I can
do this, said I think yousaid, like how long are we going
to be here for? Yeah?Yea yeah yeah yeah yeah. So so
(02:31):
I really didn't have a chance toeven really get nervous about it. It
was just the kind of thing whereI remember putting on like some music I
always use music for for auditions,and I remember I felt that she was
just this sort of very free spirit, and I just remember putting on some
music that kind of matched that,and I was like, well, sometimes
(02:53):
last minute auditions you take the pressureoff because they're like, well I didn't
have time to premiere, You're gonnaget with you get you know. Uh
so so yeah, so I justwent and I and I showed up,
and I know I've I've spoken aboutthis before. Uh. Everyone there was
blonde and tall. Yeah, andand and I remember thinking to myself,
(03:21):
all right, there's no way I'mgoing to get this. Let me just
have some fun. And that wasmy attitude. And so I I go
into the audition and the casting directoris there, and and Stephen Hopkins is
in there. Uh and and whenwhen I finished my audition, and this
I've never spoken about the casting director, which, oh gosh, I'm gonna
(03:45):
get crucified if I if I Ithink it was a Debbie man Will a
couple of weeks ago. Yeah,okay, that's what I thought, but
I just didn't want to get itwrong. So so Debbie Debbie raises her
hand like this, like like afterI do my audition, she just raises
her hand. And I thought tomyself, all right, I guess I
(04:06):
did something right, you know.And then and then that was it.
And then I didn't hear for awhile, but I had a feeling that
I that I did well, butI didn't think I got it. But
anyway, so, uh, toanswer your second question. I mean that
was a dream role, a dreamjob, a dream cast, dream directors.
(04:31):
I mean, the only bad thingabout it was that I got killed,
right, Yeah, it was thatalways plan? Was that plan for
you to get killed? Like fromthe season? Like, did you,
uh, what was it expected thatyou would only be on for the first
season or I know, in somesome circumstances, actors and actresses leave a
(04:53):
show because you know, contracts endor or or they have another show they're
going to work on. So wasthat unexpected? Oh, that was totally
unexpected. I in a way,in a way, when I before I
started getting more involved, before Jamie'sbecame more of the the you know,
(05:14):
involved in the plotline, I kindof felt like I was sort of safe,
you know, because you know,I was just sort of there on
the side doing the you know,my hacker stuff, you know. But
then at the same time, Ialso felt like I'm being underused. That
was That's what I thought, youknow. I was like, I am
(05:34):
capable of more than what they're givingme. But it was just a thought.
It was just a thought, youknow. And then it was like,
well, careful what you pray for, because then it was like okay,
you are to be used here yougo, you know, but it
was it was a total surprise.I remember the moment that I that I
(05:56):
read the script and and I saw, you know, what happened to her.
But I thought Stephen Hopkins told methat it was possible, that that
I just go to the hospital andthat I come back right. Well,
yeah, yeah, which arguably it'sstill a possibility because we didn't really see
the body as far as the audiencestandpoint, Yes, you might still be
(06:20):
alive. Oh you didn't see me, didn't I remember being in dead makeup?
Do you remember? Yeah, wesaw we saw like really grainy footage.
But that was really it. Imean yeah. And the only reason,
the only reason I say that isbecause of twenty four. Unless you
see the body, or unless it'slike I'd beheading or something other than that,
(06:43):
it's pretty much fair game on Imean, certainly, you know several
people came back years later. Ilike your thinking, right, I love
it. I like your thinking.My theory is that you're still out there,
you know, maybe you know,recovering or have recovered. And I
love that gone out in the field. Maybe I don't know. Plus,
plus you were I mean, Jamiewas framed horrible. It was it was
(07:04):
terrible. It was mean what theydid, it was terrible. What Nina
did, my goodness, Yeah,brings you alongside, makes you feel like
we're friends and we're getting along,and then it just doesn't work out that
But I didn't know that. Ididn't know all this until after I was
gone. You know, that's whenthey did all that, because my understanding
is that's when they figured it outtoo. Yeah, yeah, no,
(07:27):
because they were writing as they weregoing. Yeah. Yeah. It was
brilliant, brilliant what they did.And I think you were gone before the
thirteen episode, Like there was theoriginal thirteen episode run right where they were.
They were given thirteen episodes to ashow called twenty four, so you
were gone before that. And itseems like what they did was they came
(07:48):
up with the way. Because Ialways call it the Jamie Ferrell moment,
and it's in the last episode ofthe final episode of season one when we
find out what really happened, rightJack, it's this footage and it changes
the entire show. But I callit the Jamie Farrell moment because that changed
everything. That's where we learned Ninawas Nina Myers was was them all all
(08:13):
along? Yeah? It was thatmoment. Yes, I mean, no,
no, no, I do youknow. I had forgotten and I
don't know how I remembered this,but I'd forgotten that I came back to
shoot that, I thought, soyeah, completely airbrushed from my memory,
probably because I was so I washappy and sad at the same time.
(08:33):
I was like, look to goback for one day, you know,
yeah, sure, yeah, yeah. But even though it was it was
it was it a good death asfar as you were concerned? Was it
well? Man? I mean itwas great. Uh. Cinematically I thought,
you know, it was very welldone. You know how they did
(08:54):
it, you know all the youknow, all the folks you know,
behind the camera, and the writingof it. I thought was, which
is the case with everything on thatshow, just so clever. My concern
was can I get there emotionally forbecause initially when I shot it, it
was shot as a suicide. SoI had to get to that point where
(09:20):
at any minute I could make thatdecision. And so that's you know,
that for the viewers to decide ifI, you know, if I did
that. But but that was wheremy concern was so, but I do
think overall it was it was agood death, as you say, for
sure, Yeah, I mean asgood as they can be. I guess,
yeah, yeah. I I benedit after season one was done,
(09:43):
so I watched it straight through,and I remember we watched what straight through
seasons. I bought the DVDs andwatched it. Yeah, I didn't wait
week Season one was the only week, the only season I didn't wait week
to week. I was able towatch it all the way through. But
I remember feeling really good. Again, it's a terrible thing to say,
(10:05):
but I felt really good that you'reyou were vindicated because we understood it to
be a suicide and then found out, no, it was treachery. It
wasn't a suicide. It wasn't youweren't you know, It wasn't a despondent
move on your part, even thoughall of the way you played it,
you know, with with you know, dealing with your was it your son?
I think, Kyle y, Yeah, and that was that was so
(10:28):
tied into your character. It's someof the scenes, the scenes you had
with Carlos and with Sarah where they'reinterrogating you, is wrenching on every level,
because as a parent you start tounderstand those things and you know what
you would do for your what youwould do for your child, and and
all that that kind of stuff.So I was I was a new parent
at the time, so I wasstarting to understand kind of those you know,
(10:52):
what you would do for your child. But the play between the three
of you and those scenes was prettyamazing. Oh it was. You know,
it was emotionally brutal, but atthe same time so great to work
with the two of them. Oh, they're both so brilliant. Just wow.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, itreally established the show in many ways.
(11:16):
YEA, from from a viewers standpoint, you know, we're talking twenty
years of twenty four and why twentyfour you know works twenty years later.
And I think from an audience standpoint, you know, twenty four work because
they had, you know, amazingcharacters like yourself, like Jamie. The
storylines we were refreshing and and andnew, and they just like original and
(11:41):
unique and plus twenty four always tookus an emotional ride as well, a
very emotional ride, kept this sunny, kept us on the edge of our
seat, I think every episode.So you're like, you know, at
the end of each episode, you'rejumping up and panicking and having a panic
attack. You're yeah, and you'readrenaline. And it had a lot of
(12:03):
action too. So I think allthat combined and the real time format,
I think it just made twenty fourblow up in popularity. Yes, And
you know, because I went backand I and I watched everything. But
it took me a while to beable to watch everything because it was I
(12:24):
was just I was I was reallysad. It was hard for me to
watch right right afterwards. But Iwent back and I watched everything, and
you know the way that Keifer justdrove that show. And I'm not I'm
not saying it was just him,but he really just his his work is
so it's never dull. I mean, it's just it's it's like this engine
(12:48):
that's just just going and it's justalways on. You know, He's really
so captivating to watch, Like henever has a moment where you're just like,
oh, you know whatever. No, it's always riveting, it's always
rhyting. And I just felt andI feel that that had a big part
(13:11):
in it as well, because thathit the way that he works matches the
real time format, right got it. Yes, yes, Now what was
the challenge of you coming on andspeaking of I mean the word do we
keep hearing from different people is thepulse of the show that there was a
real pulse to it. It wasn'tlike you took a break and then you
(13:33):
run to the store like it wasjust constantly going. But there had never
really been a real time show onTV. What was it like coming for
you, joining a show that hadreally never done this before. Well,
I personally myself, I I didn'tthink of it as a real time show.
(13:54):
And when you're acting in it,at least for me, I didn't
feel that it was a real timeshow because it was just you're just you're
doing the scene as you would anyother scene, you know what I'm saying.
So from from from in front ofthe camera, it was I I
couldn't really tell that difference. Honestly, Does that make sense? Yes?
(14:16):
Absolutely? Yeah, you're in themiddle of it, doing it. Everything
else is being edited around you.Exactly, Yeah, exactly, exactly.
Yeah, but still thrilling and andjust god, just the writing is so
good that it was just a treatto want to read those scripts every week,
(14:37):
you know, And yeah, justgreat. Were there motty parallels to
theater coming from your theater background todoing twenty four? Well, yeah,
now that you mention it, itwas probably the most sequential, you know,
in terms of Yeah, so sothe sequence it not that everything was
(15:01):
sequential, but I think they triedto keep it as sequential as possible because
of the whole real time aspect.So in that sense, Yeah, that's
a great observation. And how didyou did you what was your experience like
working with the writers and the producersand everyone involved from the crew and the
(15:22):
network and all that. Well,the producer that I mostly interacted with was
Joel Joel Surnow, and he wasgreat. He just you know, not
a bad word to say about him, just very you know, sometimes a
(15:43):
producer can make you nervous. Hewas, but he was not that,
you know he and you knew thathe was a big deal, you know,
because you know, he's Joel Surnow. But but he didn't give off
that energy of like intimidating sometimes likehovering, like checking out, making sure
(16:06):
the kids are behaving kind of energy. No, So he he was a
real, real sweetheart, real sweetheart. In terms of the writers, I
don't know that. I mean,I think that they were round, but
I never really like collaborated with themor anything like that. It was most
of the directors and and with thecrew. It was just wow, you
(16:27):
know, match made in heaven forfor all of us working together. The
Yeah, I love your story ofDebbie and raising her arms and reacting.
I never forget that we talked,We talked to her, and when you
told when he said that, Iwent, I'm not surprised, having having
met her, I'm not surprised thatthat was her reaction. Does that happen
(16:48):
very often in auditions? No?No, which is why it stood out
right. It's why yeah, butshe is, uh, you know,
there's oh gosh, I'm gonna getin trouble for saying. You're like,
oh, good, say it,say it. There are I feel like
there were to me two categories,maybe more, but I kind of placed
(17:12):
the casting directors in two categories.There are ones that are they're all business
and they and it feels just likewith any profession or with anybody, it
feels harder to connect with their humanity, you know. And then there are
others that you know, they're justfriendlier and they make the audition so much
(17:36):
easier because they do let down thatguard and you do connect with the money
human level, and that's where Debbieis and so she's she has always made
me feel at ease just because becauseof her. Sure did she ever explain
her reaction to you? Well,when I got it, I understood.
(17:59):
I think the set that I gotwhen she did that was that they'd been
seeing people that weren't getting it whateverit was supposed to be, and then
somehow I went in there and itwas like, oh, she got it
or you know what I mean,she gets it or something like that.
Yeah. Yeah, And it makesme wonder is the fact that there were
only a couple of hours in betweenthe time you got the audition to the
time you did it. You know, like you said, here I am,
(18:22):
this is this is this is whoI am. Yeah I was.
Yeah. I think it gives youan extra level of because you just go
in there and you're just like,I'm just gonna have fun. Yeah yeah,
yeah, Yeah, I get theimpression too, just from a lot
of our conversations. The idea ofwhen we knew there was a fit,
we there was no it was unequivocable, Like I can't imagine anybody else playing
(18:45):
Jamie Ferrell. Really, yeah,you fit that part. It's such a
nice thing to say thank you,but to play it as a mother as
well, and to have that thataspect to it. I mean that certainly,
you know, they're there werecharacters onthe show that we're parents, and
it certainly affected, you know,how they how they made decisions and all
that kind of in the midst ofsaving the world. Yes, I mean
(19:08):
the stakes were very high, butvery high. Yeah. No, I
get the impression too that once weknew this was the one we you know,
we stopped looking like this is becausebecause in many ways they said they
weren't sure exactly what they wanted untilthey saw it. So like Debbie raising
her hands like a touchdown, Iguess so yeah, yeah, yeah,
(19:30):
yeah, I'll never forget that moment. But but I still didn't think that
I got it right, you know, because I was I was like,
I'm the only one that looks likeme here. I don't you know what
I mean, But there you go. Yeah, no, congratulates, but
we're a little late, but congratulationson getting the role. We're congratulating you.
Twenty years later, twenty years laterwe're a little overdue, but yes,
(19:51):
we listen. I'll I'll take it. It was such a good experience
that any you know, like evenlike doing this podcast and it just floods
me back with all these wonderful memories. So I'm grateful to you guys for
that. That's good to hear.It was Ryan started the podcast, and
then you know, I've been joininghim because I've been getting him all the
guests for this for the podcast.Great. I think I think I think
(20:14):
I've gotten him like over thirty sevenguests so far. Yeah, you're you're
guest number thirty eight, which isand a lot of that, you know.
I just I've just been persistent,you know, booking guests and emailing
agents and and uh, I mean, I don't know if we'll get all
fifteen hundred cast members. But well, you're doing a good job justin but
(20:37):
I mean, I think we'd haveto quit our full time jobs for that.
Well, it's so interesting because I'mI'm I'm a lawyer by training.
And when you when you were describingcasting directors, I could say the same
thing about lawyers. There's a handthere's a handful of them that show their
humanity, and then the rest arejust poker face all the time, whether
it's in social situations or work situations, and they can't tell the difference.
(21:00):
But I don't think I don't thinkI'll get in trouble for saying what you
said, because that's just a fact. Okay, Yeah, yeah, Well
what's is there been a fan interactionthat's that stood up to you or gosh,
you know, I'm sure there hasbeen, you mean for twenty four
well four or for anything? Reallyyeah? Yeah, Oh my gosh,
(21:23):
Oh I'm gonna blank. I knowit. You know, there have been
so many that it's it's hard topick one, but now on because you
know, there wasn't social media backthen, right, yeah, so it's
almost like now a lot of ittakes place on social media, you know,
(21:45):
people messaging you or leaving comments orall of that. But oh gosh,
I there have just been so manythat I don't I don't know that
I that one particularly stands out tome right at this moment. I know,
as soon as we log off,I'm gonna go, Oh, you
can call back, we'll record it, we can edit it. Absolutely.
(22:08):
It's one of those things too thatwhen you when you said that. It
reminds me that, you know,there was, like I said, the
Jamie Farrell moment when we find outthat it wasn't suicide, we find out
that it was actually Nana's treachery thatled to your death or supposed death.
Sorry we'll just say suppose death,but led to this. But he Jack
(22:29):
got it on his phone, whichin two thousand and one, two thousand
and two wasn't really possible except thatnow like he like the actual file was
sent to his phone and then heopened it up on his phone or on
his device and was able to watchit. But I don't think that was
actually possible twenty years if they wereahead of themselves, ahead of themselves,
they were always like five minutes intothe future, yeah or yeah, yeah.
(22:53):
And it dawned on me. Iwas I was listening watching the show
on my phone on my way todo an interview, and I, oh,
my goodness, twenty four was likeso right from season one, was
so far ahead of the game thatactually started to predict some of these things.
But yeah, no, it's evenwith I mean, this was not
a prediction, but just the eerinessof you know, nine to eleven happening
(23:18):
right around that time, and thenthat scene that they had to edit on
the plane, you know, andeven having even some of the presidents right,
you know, they had David Palmer, so having a having the first
black president show kind of you know, you could say that twenty four maybe
led to the presidency of President Obamaor or help or help the world,
(23:45):
help the world to visualize it right, to be able to see. Yeah,
you're part of something huge. Yeah, and it's groundbreaking on many levels.
Yeah, yes, very groundbreaking.We brought Hollywood to TV because in
that year, the year that youstarted, no film actors except Kiefer and
(24:06):
I think there was one other thatwas doing TV. Now James where the
Yeah, we're the complete opportion.Yeah, well, I think, yes,
absolutely that I remember that change,and I remember that it had something
according to how my agent at thetime explained it to me, it had
(24:27):
something to do with the uh,you know, the start of reality television
really changed things. And because Iremember my audition level dropping significantly as reality
shows started to come, you know, come to the scene. Uh.
(24:47):
And so what happened is that realityshows started to they really changed the game
and everything started to for example,like you know, movie stars started to
do television. People who were seriesregulars started to do guest spots. You
know, people who did guest spotsstarted to do co stars. It was
(25:11):
like everything just kind of changed inthat way in it and not I don't
I mean not for the better,right right, each for actors, right
yeah, no, no, no, no no, So I mean I
was to change gears a little bit. Yeah. There's several films that you've
(25:32):
been in that I've seen in thetheater. So I saw the dangerous minds
I saw in the theater, crashedI saw at the theater when it came
out. But then there's a holewhen when Canada got cable, it was
like a magic day for me.And I'm pretty sure I didn't leave the
house for two months when Canada gotcable. And I remember watching one of
the movies I watched several times duringthat that Love Affair with Cable. Lean
(25:56):
On Me was definitely in there.When eight seven was in there, Oh,
the Cowboy Way, Oh, thatwas the first time I worked with
Kiefer Wow, really really? Anddid that happen for me? And I
was like I went up to himand I was like we worked and he
was like, oh hi, wow, and he remembered and yeah, that's
it. But I mean those arethe films that I watched over and over
(26:18):
again. Tell me about how yougot because lean On Me was your first
film role, right with Morgan Freemanof all people, yes and everybody else?
What was that like? And howdid how did you get there?
Well? You know I had beenyou know, I went to not to
go too far back, but Iwent to the high school performing arts,
okay, and so we we hada showcase at the right before we were
(26:41):
graduating, and these agents came tosee us. And so this agency called
me in and I went and Iauditioned for them, and they just started
sending me out like without signing me. So I went right from high school
to just I just started auditioning rightaway. And and then you know,
I've been auditioning for I guess maybea little less of a year. And
(27:06):
then the only other thing I'd doneis an episode of The Equalizer. You
guys remember that? Remember they justbrought it back? Actually, oh right,
exactly, yes, Latifah awesome.And anyway, so I go in.
I just went in for this movieand I was also sort of freelancing
(27:26):
with this other agent, and sothey when when I got the callback,
they called the other agent by mistake, and this other agent was so upset
with me that I was freelancing eventhough I never signed me. He told
them I'd gone to Puerto Rico.Oh come on, I swear to god,
(27:48):
I'm not making this up. SoI almost lost that opportunity. But
then I think they were the castingerswere like, way, that's weird that
she would just go to Puerto Ricoafter auditioning for this film. And then
they realized, oh, it's theother agency whatever, And so I almost
lost that role because of that,because the exactly exactly. But anyway,
(28:11):
it was you know, the energy, uh that we all had because we
were all so new, you know, it was all like our first movie,
and and it was just we wereall so excited. Everyone was just
very excited, and I think Ifeel like that energy carried through the whole
shoot and it was it was justa wonderful experience. Awesome, awesome.
(28:36):
Yeah, I'm pretty sure I watchedit at least a dozen times during that
that time because it was a verysuch an uplifting movie too, Like it
really was and I feel like itis that kind of movie that you could
just watch over and over. Yeah, because there's so many different elements to
it, you know, and theneach time you watch it, you're like,
oh, I never realized that,you know. Oh blah blah blah.
You know. Yeah, yeah,you really worked with some of the
(28:57):
three three of films great educators MichellePfeiffer, Sam Jackson, and Morgan Freeman.
For sure, Like that's when becausemy wife is a teacher, and
those are the movies we go backand watch. We'll go back and watch
Dangerous Minds. I remember we sawCoolio and Concert a couple of years ago
and we had Dangerous Minds. Hedid. I mean it was a huge
(29:18):
hit. I mean that that youknow. What I love about that song
is that it's it's it's actually heartbreaking, yes it is, you know,
it's it's really heartbreaking. But thathook is so it just draws you in.
It's very you know the that thatthat hook. Yeah, So that
that's I love that about that song, the depth to it. Yeah,
(29:41):
yeah, I agree, I agree, And again I remember it was a
huge hit the ninety five It wasa huge, It was everywhere everywhere,
so yes, very cool. Yeah, and you also have done you do
theater, yeah, you know,whenever you can. Yeah, how how
did you get into that? Well? I think did I I'm trying to
(30:03):
figure out if I did theater firstor film, because my first play was
Marisol, but I think I'd alreadydone Lean. I think I think I
did film first. Yeah. Yeah, I think my agents were you know,
I was so young, they werejust sending me out for you know
whatever, you know. And yeah, and the first role that I booked
(30:29):
in theater was was Marisol, whichwas the lead role, which was I'm
on stage the whole time. Wow. Wow, I got thrown into the
lions Den. Yeah. But itwas a great way for me to start
because every other job at theater jobexcept for water by this moonful after that
was easy in comparison to the firstone. But also, you know,
(30:56):
my training was in theater mainly atthe school. Yeah, at the school,
and I actually kind of had tolearn on camera work as I went
along. Okay, and even youknow, even when I did twenty four,
to be perfectly honest, I stilldidn't know what I was doing camera
wise, because I remember Stephen Hopkinstaking me aside and going and saying you
(31:23):
just have to listen. Garden knowswhat I was doing, like all these
faces or whatever, and He's like, just listen. And it was a
really big lesson. And I feellike that's how I learned to do on
camera work just is by the feedbackthe directors gave me as I as I
got these jobs. Yeah. Wow, that's like a big takeaway from from
(31:48):
twenty four to learn that you knowthat lesson? Oh yeah. And and
and Kevin Reynolds, who directed oneeight seven right, did the same thing.
He said to me, he said, your your your challenge is that
you think you're not doing enough andyou are. That stayed with me and
(32:09):
I still struggle with that, yes, Justin. And speaking of lessons learned,
uh, do you ever do youdo you have any advice that you
would that you would share lessons learnedfrom you over your career. Do you
have any advice that you would sharewith students wanting to get into the business
of acting or or or television orfilm itself. Yeah? Well, I
(32:34):
was asked this in another interview recently, and so part of me is like,
say a different answer, Carena.But but briefly, I'll say what
I I'll say what I what Isaid there, and then I'll also elaborate
on it. So it's you know, it's it's actually different because I actually
did want to elaborate it after afterwatching the interview. I guess it's two.
(33:01):
Make sure that you're getting into actingfor the reasons that are going to
be beneficial to you, you know, in terms of because what I did
was I used acting as a assomething that would give me self worth,
(33:23):
which I then realized was a hugemistake because you know, self worth can
only come from one thing, andthat's from yourself, and I was trying
to gain it externally, you know. So I would say, really look
deep within yourself, and if there'ssomething in you that that needs healing,
(33:51):
don't try to heal it just throughacting. Acting can be part of the
healing process. You know, AmI making sense? Yeah? Yeah.
And and the other thing is,and sort of to elaborate on that is,
I have given this a lot ofthought. The state of Hollywood and
(34:13):
and and and the whole business isyou have to remember that it's it's man
made. Acting in itself is notman made. It's it's a natural thing.
Like if there were no cameras,if there were no Hollywood, if
there were no studios, you know, we would be the ones telling stories
and then mimicking the roles, youknow. And then and then my dad
(34:36):
said, what did you do that? You know what I mean? And
then Mom was like, anyeah,you know, whatever it is, right,
So we would be those people,right, you know, amongst amongst
the you know, the you know, the tribes or the groups or whatever.
So to hold on to what ispure about acting? And two,
whatever is man made about it,whether it's uh, whether it's fame or
(35:00):
the way the business works, whichI have a lot of issues, sure,
So so whatever's not pure, don'thold on to it. That's you
didn't create that. So done.Let don't let that be your problem,
you know. So if you didn't, like I was, I was reading
something on mayor of East to EastTown. Goodness, my wife's watching that
(35:25):
downstairs right now. It's stunning,extraordinary, I mean, just but my
point is that I read something aboutthe writer and why they cast someone.
And I won't say who because Idon't want to give away you know,
spoilers haven't seen it. So whythey cast someone? And and the writer
(35:47):
was like, well, you know, yeah, they did a good job,
but they also happened to look alot like the person that they're related
to. And I just thought,oh my god, it really is so
out of your hands sometimes, youknow. So. So my point is
that kind of stuff, don't holdon to it, hold on to the
(36:09):
purity of your art, and letthat always be your guide. Makes sense.
It did make sense, And Iget the impression that storytelling is in
your blood. As you said,you would be telling if there was no
Hollywood, you know, you wouldbe telling stories and acting them out.
I've never talked about this, butwhen I was in grade school, I
(36:31):
did the storytelling contests and for severalyears, I think it's fourth, fifth
and sixth grade, and I alwayswon for the school, and I always
won for the district, and Ialways lost for the borough. Within reach.
It was within reach, my goodness. Thank you for that. Thank
(36:54):
you for acknowledging that that holes it. You brought me back to like my
roots roots, you know. Well, I mean again, you told the
story. I'm gonna bring us toCarla. Oh yeah, Carla is Carla
alive because Carla as a lawyer.Okay, watching that scene in the courtroom,
(37:14):
you say I'm not doing anything untilI get my lawyer. Like it
was very it's probably it's probably I'veseen it more recently probably than you have.
But there is the scene where you'restanding in front of a judge and
you're saying, I know my rights, I know, you know, that
piece of paper says that, butI don't believe that, and I don't
believe that guy's piece of paper.And then the next person comes up and
(37:34):
says the same thing. Yeah,and then she says she says, well,
I was gonna say it before shedid. Yeah, she just copied
me. But that was the beginningof our our our you know, our
bond and her friendship. Yes,absolutely absolutely. That was one of my
favorite things about how they wrote Carla, because they didn't write her as because
(37:55):
often when you see you know,immigrants portrayed, there's sort of you know,
subservient and sort of more you know, meek, and but they did.
They just went all out with herand they you know, and then
somebody pointed this out to me thatshe was she was a little like Maria
and lean on me when you know, h Freeman was like, you want
(38:15):
to be a lawyer and then yearslater, here I am playing this immigrant
who thinks she's who you know,worked at a lawyer's office, and so
now she has all this knowledge andcan defect, you know, handle her
own. Yeah. I mean,like I said, the power of TV
and film to put you in thein the place where you can start to
(38:37):
understand that scene in the courtroom whenyou see all those women behind you know
again, behind the the the inthe courtroom, all being treated like criminals.
Yeah, it puts you right inthere and says this is reality,
this is where, this is where, this is what actually happens. And
as you said, I'm making thatconnection now with with lean on Me.
(38:58):
The idea is that she didn't riskrepond like she was supposed to respond.
And I think if that scene haddragged out more, we would have seen
more people standing up saying well,I'm going to say that too, exactly.
I think another show might have mighthave made a twenty minute scene out
of that where everybody stands up anddoes the same thing and gets the same
treatment. Yeah. But but itwas fascinating because, like I said,
(39:20):
exactly what you said, there wasno subservience there, there was no bowing
down. It was like, Iknow who I am, I know my
rights, and I know I'm inAmerica, and I know America has some
understanding of human rights. And I'masking you two in vocalos right now,
which I thought was really Oh.I love I love that about her so
much, in the way that theywrote her, and and I you know,
(39:44):
I I look at these characters andI learned from them, you know,
and I want to and I wantto be like them. Yeah,
yeah, which makes it especially heartbreakingat you know, at the end of
the at the end of the series, when she's kind of left, and
again, my theory, my theory, just like Jamie, they're still alive,
They're still fighting. You know howmany people are happy, so happy
(40:07):
hearing you say that right now,because I get so many messages like that
going, people asking me, doyou think she's alive? Do you think
she's alive? And I remember Iwas asked that in a sort of a
written interview that I did, andI remember saying, well, realistically,
right, physical, physical, yeah, but but you know there's there's a
(40:31):
whole other realm beyond that, inthe realm of possibility, right, So
so I love I love that theory. I do because in television, right,
television and film, they always saynever say never. So yeah,
so you never you never know youknow what will happen in TV. So
(40:51):
anything anything is possible in the inTV when it comes to whether a character
is alive or not alive or yeah, we believe your character are alive.
I love it. Look what theydid and Will and Grace like what kids
that never happened and then they justwent and just rewrote like you know,
(41:12):
like yeah it was yeah, keepgoing absolutely. Yeah. Well, we
want to be mindful of your time, but we are there. Is there
anything we didn't cover that that you'dlike to talk about? Well, I
kind of want to talk to yourwife about mayor of Easton. Yeah,
I've got to catch up. Ohmy god. If you want a I'll
(41:36):
say this, Uh, if youwant a masterclass in acting, watch the
acting on that show. I meanKate Winslet just just I mean, one
of the most incredible performances I've everseen. Wow, wow, And I
think, oh when you when yousee it, if you see it,
(41:57):
you'll I think you'll go oh that'swhy she's yeah yeah yeah. And Evan
Peters, Yes, he is nowone of my and I've never seen his
work before. No, there's alot that I don't watch a lot.
No, but so much, there'sso much exactly exactly. He is now
one of my favorite actors. Anyway, Sorry I went to that, but
(42:20):
oh no, no, no,no, Well that's a good point.
I mean a lot of Certainly,for fans of twenty four, we say
that twenty four gave a certain pedigree, so that, for example, if
I see that you're on a SVU, for example, I'm gonna watch that
episode because I know it's if you'reinvolved, it's gonna be it's gonna be
worth watching. Or if there's aTV show, like they said when you
(42:42):
joined Orange Is a New Black,the same thing. It was like,
Okay, I'm gonna I'm gonna continuewatching because like i'd like, you know,
we like watching to see what otherpeople are doing, you know,
down the line, and we knowthat there's a level of quality because there's
so much TV right now, Yes, how do you sort through it?
And you kind of find, youknow, Howard Gordon's involved in the show,
or Keeper is involved in the show, or you're involved in the show,
(43:04):
and that gives us at least aplace of credibility to you know,
really, just like you said inrecommending mayor of East Town, the same
kind of thing. Oh we seethat as a as a recommendation. Yeah,
oh absolutely, I mean I have. I mean, I'll okay now,
I'm mindful of your time because I'mgonna live on. But I'll just
say the last thing is that show. In watching the arc of that show,
(43:30):
there were two moments that made mesob uncontrollably, uncontrollably, and so
I don't know if you your viewerswant to write to you or find me
and tell me, they can guesswhat those two moments were. Uncontrollably just
(43:50):
it's so moving, because what's thebest way to find you if they want
to just my name on Instagram?I guess okay onsta excellent, excellent.
Yeah. My wife, she didnot want to have anything. She didn't
want anything spoiled. She said,I watch it. I was like,
you finish the rest of that story, just yeah, you finished it last
(44:10):
night. I did. I did, but I, oh gosh, I
knew there will never be another timewhen I'm about to watch the finale of
Mariba's Town, and I wanted todraw it out as long as possible watch
it right, and I was like, I have self control, I could
(44:31):
wait another hour. And I waslike, yeah, just bravo. But
but bravo for so many reasons.And the main reason is the mental health
aspect of it, because we needthat, especially now, especially now.
Yes, well, thank you verymuch, Krino, Thank you guys your
(44:54):
insight and stories and and and yourrecommendations, like we we take those very
seriously. So we enjoy seeing yougo on screen, we enjoy hearing from
you, and we're grateful that you'vejoined us today on the podcast Technical Barrister
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