Episode Transcript
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Three three Task focuses on firearms trainingby use of the firearms fundamentals. This
podcast is for educational purposes only isnot to be used as any legal advice
or justification. Hey, everybody,welcome to three or three Task. It's
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Jay here talking about the firearm fundamentals. Today is our second podcast, and
we have a special guest for you, and I'll let you introduce herself.
Mandy, go ahead and tell usabout it. Who you are. I
am Mandy Connell. I host theMandy Connell Show on KOA News Radio here
in Denver, heard via podcast andlive all over the country from the iHeartRadio
platform, and I am live noonto three Monday through Friday mountain time.
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So there you go. All right, manyea, I appreciate you doing this.
I'm going to try and not doa Jimmy Fallon interview where I ask
you questions and then tell you howgreat you are before you get to answer
those. No, you can totallydo that. That's fine. You can
tell me how great I am.You can take the whole show and just
make it about how great I am. I'm fine with that. Well,
I did pay for a paid subscriptionso we can keep going longer because you
only get so many minutes so onyour free subscription. All right, Manny
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wh I appreciate you coming on withus. I guess the first question I
wanted to ask is how you gotinto shooting sports. I know you've talked
a little bit about on your showduring the daytime. How did you kind
of come to get into that.My father was an avid hunter for my
entire childhood. I mean, youknow, hunting season was like it was
sacred in our household, and mymom to this day will complain about the
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fact that my dad every Thanksgiving wasgone during he was bird hunting because that
was usually the opening of either quailor dove season. So I grew up
in a family where firearms were kindof an ubiquitous part of our household,
and we learned to shoot at avery young age. The first time I
remember shooting with my dad, Iwas about six years old and I learned
how to shoot his twenty eight gageshotgun and my father. I still shoot
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a twenty eight gauge when I shootsportingclays and everybody's like, what are you
doing? It's super fun to shoot. Well, we'll talk about that later,
but I grew up in a ruralcommunity, so hunting was always a
part of my life. Target shootingwhere we'd go out to somebody's farm and
set soda cans up on a logand then stand back and shoot various guns
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at that stuff. It just wasa part of the fabric of our community
and not unusual at all. Andyou know, when I was in high
school back in the late eighties,I know, I don't look that old,
but I am. You know,our high school was one of those
high schools where everybody, every truckhad a gun rack in the back with
a gun in it, you know, and it was just that kind of
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environment. So it was one ofthose things that was just a part of
our lives in a way that feltvery seamless. You know. It's funny
you mentioned that about high schools havinggun rights. My dad used to tell
me stories about how he would leavehis bird gun and his locker at school
and walk home hunt rabbits on theway home. What's funny about that is
I remember, like, right beforeany season started, whether it was bird
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season or duck season or whatever,you would go out to the parking lot
after school and there'd be a bunchof male teachers standing around a kid's pickup
truck and they would be looking athis shotgun or his new rifle or whatever
it was he got that he broughtto school so he could show all the
teachers what firearm he was going outto hunt with, and they would talk
about, you know, how todo this or how to do that.
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I mean, it was just itwas such a natural thing that it never
seemed weird to me at all.It was never controversial, It was never
strange because it was so common.It was a shared experience. Yeah.
Yeah, that is definitely not thecase these days. And I don't know
if that's the migration of people fromrural to urban or I'm sure that has
some part of it to do itwith it as well. You mentioned a
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little but when you're talking about that, what is your favorite shooting sport?
Is it target clays or sporting classes? Is my favorite shooting sport? My
father got to a point where hewas he had some back issues and he
wasn't in great, you know,in the best physical health as he got
older, and that you know,the schlipping through the woods to go quail
hunting or sitting on the side ofa field to go. Dove hunting was
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not really as appealing to him asit once was, so he started shooting
sporting clays. He was probably inhis early sixties when he started shooting sporting
clays competitively, and he was immediatelyhooked and just went all in and shot
in a lot of competitions and didreally well for his age group until he
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said that his reflexes were no longerallowing him to beat the younger guys,
and he'd get super mad about that. But he introduced me to the sport
probably when I was in my earlytwenties mid twenties, and I love it.
I love shooting something that explodes,first of all, I do.
I love seeing a clay pigeon likeblast into a million pieces. That makes
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me always a good time when something'sslowing up it is well. See,
I don't like fireworks, right,I know that sounds weird. I'm one
of those people. I just fireworksare lost on me. But I like
making something blow up. Right.If I could shoot the firework and then
make it blow up, maybe itwould be appealing. But I enjoy like
seeing that boom and that immediate kindof rush of satisfaction that you get from
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it. And I found out laterI was actually competing in a sporting places
tournament for a radio station that Iwas working for back in the day.
It was a celebrity pro am andI was one of the celebrities. And
I went back to my dad's range. He had a he and a bunch
of engineers from a corporation that liveddown the street from his house in a
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rural area. They built a sportingclay's range and it was fabulous, And
so I went there and one ofmy dad's friends a guy named Leo,
and Leo was a former drill instructorfor the Marines. And he said,
Leo can because my dad was aterrible teacher, right and he knew this.
He knew this. He could notteach his children how to do things.
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And I have found out genetically,I too am a terrible teacher.
So you know, it's a thingin our family. But he said,
Leo can help you get squared away. Leo's going to help you figure this
out. So I worked with Leofor one day and Leo said, I
would rather work with women all daylong because they listen. He said,
men come into this they already knoweverything even though they know nothing because they
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heard yeah, yeah, they're bigand burgerly. But Leo helped me and
I won the women's division of thatSporting Plays shoot. And I'm just going
to say that bar was really low, Okay, really low, So I
don't want to make it seem likeI shot, you know, eighty nine
out of one hundred birds. Ithink I shot like forty five out of
one hundred, and I still won. But after that, I was like,
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this is a fantastic sport. It'sa sport that pretty much anyone can
do. You know, you canhave some physical infirmities and still be able
to go out and compete. Andif you enjoy shooting but maybe you're past
hunting, this is really the closestthing that gives you that that sense of
I'm shooting at something that is moving, that is less geometric than a skeet
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shooting setup. You know, ifyou know geometry, you can shoot skeet
like that's just the way it is. But the petition of it is you
can get it. But with Sportingplays, every stand is different, the
birds come out at a different rate, so you have that kind of excitement
of what it's like to try andhit a bird on the wing. It's
funny. I like you. Iwas introduced to hunting and stuff by my
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dad, and I found trap andskat shooting very early, because slopping through
the woods at ten years old suck. So I ask you a question,
were you did you bird hunt withyour dad? Did you go bird hunting?
Game hunting? Okay, when Iwas probably I'm like ten years old,
and my dad would take me birdhunting with all of his buddies.
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He had a farmer friend that wouldplant a peanut field specifically for dub season,
right, and then he releases hogsinto the peanut field. They would
uproot all of the peanuts and thenget the hogs out, and then the
birds would come. And so you'dsit on the edge of this field and
you'd have to wait. And itwas for a kid. That's just that's
awful. That's just fate worse thandeath. Right, You're sitting there waiting
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and my dad shells, right.I had one box of shells, and
when I was done with shells,I was done hunting. That was controlled
the chaos here. But my fatherwould only let me shoot birds on the
wing. Meaning they had to bein flight. I couldn't shoot them off
of a tree limb, I couldn'tshoot them off the fence post. I
had to shoot them on the wing. So I never shot my limit.
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And all the other sons, right, the sons that were with all their
dads, they would all shoot theirlimit and they'd come over and they'd be
like, oh, you only shotsix birds, And my dad would look
at them and say, how manydo you shoot on the wings? So
they would just shut up? Backup. I mean, my dad was
very much a sportsman hunter, youknow. He he did not trophy hunt
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at all, other than I havea leah in Texas, which they're horrible
and ugly and really no one caresif you shoot those, right. He
was very much about the sporting aspectof hunting, and I think that that
is something that is carried through forme in various parts of my life.
I mean, it's just the notionthat it needs to be as fair as
possible, right, you know,it's funny you talk about, you know,
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sporting plays, and it's that instantgratification. I just started to introducing
my daughter who's turning into a teenager, and we started shooting steel want someone
lets them steal out on the rangeone day, and once she found steel,
it's hard to get her to shootpaper again because it's that instant gratification
making that thing go dig exactly,it is. It is so much fun,
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and it's so it's just it's it'sempowering to go out and shoot something
and see it explode. And andI have no desire to hunt. I'm
I'm too soft, Like if Iwas starving. I am I'm fully I
admit it. The last time Iwent hunting with my dad, I was
about thirteen years old, and wewere deer hunting, and I'm up in
a deer stand and in Florida,the deer tiny compared to how they are
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here, right, They're like fractionof the size of the deer we have
here. But I'm in this deerstand and my dad's like two hundred and
fifty yards away in a different deerstand. And for Florida, a really
big buck walks basically right under me, and I was like, there's no
way I can kill this deer.And I shot into the ear and my
dad was so mad. He wasso mad. That was it for me
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hunting with my dad. That wasthe last time. So it was like,
I just can't. You know,if my family was starving, I
could, but they're not. Ican still go to King Soupers, you
know, and feed them. SoI don't. It's just not for me,
right, Yeah, I'm with you. I'm more into the sporting aspect
of it for sure, and teachingand training and stuff like that kind of
kind of where where my lane hasbeen carved. So how often do you
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get to go shoot what it istarget sporting plays or not as often as
I would like. And I boughta new carry weapon a couple of years
ago and I've honestly barely shot it, and so that is one of those
things that I have to make moretime for. But man, shooting in
this area where you have to goand pay someone to stand in a lane
and shoot is expensive. And asI mentioned, we used to go shoot
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in people's backyards because they had theyou know, like farm land, so
we didn't have to pay for that. But man, and I realize I
know enough range owners to know thebuilt in costs of owning a range are
significant. There's a lot of regulatorystructure, there's a lot of stuff that
has to be built into a range. So I get why it's so expensive,
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but dang, you're like, man, oh man, a Schevitz.
That is just that's a lot ofthat's a chunk of change, plus ammunition
being what it is. You know, you don't necessarily want to go in
there and blow a box of ammunition, but you got to. You got
to keep practicing. Yeah, youknow, it's uh. I would up
to Wyoming with my wife and she'sfrom there, and so, well,
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you make sure you bring some guns. We'll find some time to go shoot.
I'm like, oh, really,is there a range up there?
She's like, yeah, you turnleft off the road. That's how it
is. You know. I'm gladyou brought up buying a new carry gun.
I was going to ask you that. You know, when you go
into these gun stores and you talkabout lawyer, you know, men coming
out and learn, and it's mucheasier to teach women because they listen.
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Do you find it a little differentwhen you try and buy a gun as
a woman. Is I had anexperience at a gun store once where my
husband and I went into the storetogether and he's wandering around looking at stuff,
and I'm wandering around looking at Steff, and I asked the guy behind
the counter if I could look ata weapon in the in the case.
And at this point, my husband, Chuck walks up to stand next to
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me because he sees I'm going tolook at something. And the guy pulls
the weapon out of the case andputs it in front of Chuck so Chuck
can look at it, and literallydirected the rest of the conversation to Chuck.
And I just was like, youknow what, I'm not shopping here,
and I took my business elsewhere.It has gotten a lot better than
it used to be. I meanwhen I was younger, you'd be completely
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ignored and they would assume you wereshopping for a gift. It's like,
oh, are you here to buya holster for someone? Are you here
to buy Ammo for someone? Orwhatever? And that was probably twenty years
ago. Now it's gotten a lotmore, even as a lot more women
have taken up shooting sports. ButI always I tell my female friends,
if you walk into a gun storeand you feel people look through you,
walk back out, walk to it, give somebody else your business, because
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it's very frustrating when you're not beingtaken seriously, especially if you don't know
anything about guns, right, ifyou're trying to go in and learn and
find something that is going to bea reasonable carry weapon for you as a
woman, If you have people behindthe counter who don't even see you as
a serious customers, it's horrible tryingto find somebody that understands, Okay,
I don't want want something bigger thanmy hand, you know, Or they'll
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try and sell you like a peaceshooter because you're a woman, like a
little tiny twenty two, because they'relike, oh, I'm sure you're going
to put this in your purse.That's terrible advice. First of all,
you don't carry in your purse.You carry on your person. But you've
got to go to a place wherethey take you seriously. They answer all
of your questions and they appreciate thefact that you're a new shooter who is
coming in here to try and protectyourself. And there are lots of gun
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stores out there now that are reallyaware of that bias against women and are
doing a much better job with treatingwomen with respect when they come in and
not being dismissive. You know,I was going to ask you if it
was different when your husband showed up. But apparently you answered that you know,
and oh yeah, that's kind ofwhy I started three or three tashkol,
you know, especially when I wasdoing lots of training at police rangers
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and stuff, and you, likeyou said, it would happen a lot
more with the female recruits. Wouldthey come in they went to the gun
store and said, Hey, I'mgoing to the police academy. I need
X, and X turned into whybecause the guy behind the counter knew better.
And that's frustrating as an instructor,because it's hard to tell someone who
spend good money this is junk orit won't work for you. And you
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know, I'm a big component ofbe careful of people who say this is
the way, not one of theways. If that makes sense, well,
I there are also a lot ofgun stores now that I will allow
you to actually try out a weapon. And if you are buying a firearm
for the first time, you absolutelyshould try out the weapon before you buy
it. Take a gun safety classfirst if you're more comfortable that way.
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But if you're going in blind andsomeone says, because I have a friend
who's half my size, she's tinyand a dude sold her a forty five
pistol that she can't even lift up, let alone fire properly. And if
she does me to please off around, she has so much recoiled that she
can't It's completely non functional. AndI think he must have done it as
a joke. I mean, Ican't imagine why someone would have done that.
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But now she has a firearm shecan't use, and it's very frustrating
for me. I've had male friendsthat have done the same thing, by
the way, who've gone into likeI want to forty five. Not everyone
can shoot a forty five, youguys. Not everyone can shoot it well.
And the previous podcast, when it'stalking with another instructor, you know
that first gun or first training class, you get into really ingrains into you.
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Are you going to be scared ofit? Or you know, is
it going to be a pleasurable experience? And I think as instructors, as
salesman, you have a big responsibilityhow serious you take it to what you're
giving to someone you know? Rightright? I realheartedly, And I think
there are too many people I don'tknow. I hate walking in the gun
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store where it feels like in nooffense a cop shop or like an extension
of the military, you know whatI mean. And my husband is retired
army, so I have no illwill towards police or the army. I
want to be clear about that.But when I walk into a gun store
and everybody looks like they're strapped upready to go to battle, half those
guys didn't serve first of all,just kind of were the costume. And
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I shy away from situations like that. On half those guys look ridiculous.
If we can both be honest witheach other. You know you mentioned that.
That's why I started three or threetackle them. Not so much as
training is a very large component.I think education is also an important component.
I'm here so that you don't haveto walk in there blind with your
right and just have a bad experience. I want it to be a good
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experience for everybody. So I wasgoing to ask you, have you done
any women's only training classes or women'sonly shooting nice What do you think about
those? I love them. Ihave personally taken friends of mine to the
range who have never fired a gunbefore, and they're scared of it and
they don't understand it. And manyof them are anti Second Amendment, and
I say, great, let's goand shoot. Let's go, and you
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have the experience of shooting a targetin a safe environment, in a safe
way, and we'll do I'll teachyou the basic gun safety. And I
have turned all but one, maybenot into gun nuts, but at least
in people who say, okay,I understand why people feel the way they
do. And several of them havegone on to get concealed carry permits and
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buy handguns for protection, because honestly, for me, the thing that I
want women to recognize is that aproperly utilized handgun is the only equalizer you
have against a larger male aggressor whowants to do you harm. Because I
don't care how many krav Magau classesI take, or I don't care how
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many you know what I bench press. If a dude is bigger than me
and stronger than me, he cantake me down. And I want the
opportunity to defend myself. And sofor me, women and firearms should be
a natural fit, like they shouldjust go together, because once you learn
how to handle a weapon, onceyou learn how to safely deal with the
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weapon, once you learn how touse the weapon safely. There is a
level of confidence that I believe andmaybe as a copy you could respond to
this. I think that level ofconfidence makes me less likely to be victimized
in the first place. You know, I think the way that I walk
down the street when I'm carrying andI don't get me wrong, I'm not
walking around with my pistol on myhip, but having that measure of confidence
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I think makes me a less attractivetarget. Well, well, there's been
the people have spoken to that,and there's been lots of studies where they've
went to convicted criminals and said,look at this picture and who would you
pick out, And people with theirheads up, not on their cell phones,
you know, they don't pick him. He's not easy. So you
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know, you're right that confidence leadsto less over compensation if you will.
You know, just having that surroundingand awareness I think is important. And
you know, you talk about thewomen's classes and stuff, and I think
it's important. Not everyone can goto a twenty person training class. It's
just it's just overwhelming for lots ofpeople. And whether it's male or female,
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new shooters be worried they're going tobe behind they're worried they're not they're
going to drag the class down andthings like that. I think sometimes people
just need some long classes or privatetutorials like we do here at three h
three Tactical or things like that,so they just get them, I guess,
get over the nw jitters if thatmakes sense, you know. Oh
yeah, I mean well, Iwas lucky in that when I went to
take my first concealed carry class,and I'm now taking them in three states,
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so I feel like I'm understanding theresponsibilities of concealed carry more than your
average bear. Okay, I've beenthrough it in three different states. But
the first class that I went towas a male teacher, and he was
absolutely outstanding in terms of talking topeople who had just modifire Army. They
hadn't even taken out of the boxyet before the class, right, And
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as part of the training, hewas talking about, look, sit in
your living room with an unloaded weaponand handle the gun. Just have it
in your hand, open it,close it, get used to the mechanisms
because the more you have it inyour hand, the less intimidating and scary
it is. Right. So he'slike, of course, again making sure
it's unloaded, but drop the magazineout if you have an automatic or a
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semi automatic weapon, open and closethe chamber if you have a revolver.
And he was really good about takingthe scary part away. So that was
my first firearms concealed carry instructor.My second concealed carry arms instructor was in
Kentucky, And in Kentucky they reallydon't want you to have a concealed carry
permit because as a part of thecourse they have to read to you all
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of the statutory language that you haveto comply with to become a concealed carry
permit. Now can you imagine justreading the statutes. First of all,
they're written in legally, so nobodyunderstands what they're writing. But that guy
was more more gruff and kind ofcut to the point. And if he'd
been my first instructor, I wouldhave been very very unhappy. Right now
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when I got here to take itagain, I have a friend who was
a female ANRI instructor, and Itook her class and it was outstanding and
it was just to your point.She made sure that the people who looked
confused, she would ask them,you look like you have a question instead
of waiting for somebody because you know, people don't ask questions, so she
can actually seek out their questions.And it was just a much different experience.
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So I'm glad I've had those threedifferent experiences. And it's like anything
else. If you take a courseand you don't like the instructor, find
a different instructor, right, takeit from someone else, because this stuff
is so critically important, and whenyou decide that you are going to do
something that gives you the power toend another human beings life, you better
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take it seriously, like this isthis is the most serious thing that we
deal with and should be taken thatway. Yeah, yeah, I mean
that kind of leads into the nextquestion goes, what does you feel?
What do you feel The importance oftraining really is, oh gosh, confidence,
knowledge, making sure that when youaim at something you're going to hit
it and not hit something else.Understanding what your firearm is capable of in
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terms of where your ammunition is goingto end up at the end of that.
If you shoot a forty five,you better have awareness of what's behind
what you're shooting at. Right,I don't shoot forty five, you know,
I have a thirty eight revolver,and I have a nine millimeter,
but even then I have to beaware of where that bullet's gonna end up.
And that's the kind of stuff thatconstant training and more training helps you
understand. It helps you understand thepower of the weapon that you have.
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And I got to tell you aquick story about this, really quick that
just popped up. Right, goahead, When I'm like ten years old,
we're out at my friend, mydad's friends, mister Knutson, he
had the house where it was thebest house ever when you were a kid,
it was amazing. But we're outshooting and mister Cannutson had a black
powder musket, right, So mydad gets a small watermelon maybe I don't
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know, maybe twelve inches long,and it's one of those oblong ones.
So he gets this watermelon and hestands back, probably about fifteen feet away,
and he shoots the watermelon with theblack powder rifle, and the watermelon
literally exploded, I mean just exploded. And my dad said, that's what
happened when you shoot a human.Yep, that's what happens when you shoot
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a person. And that visual imageryreally drove home how powerful. This whole
situation was right, I mean,it was always it was. My dad
was always big on safety, youknow, pointing the gun down range and
all of that stuff just just naturally. We didn't even talk about it.
It was just the way things were. And then he'd let me shoot the
black powder gun. And after Igot up from about ten feet back of
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where I started shooting the black powdergun, sure, I didn't want to
do that again, and I'm notsure I've ever shot a black powder rifle
since. But he was very goodabout teaching the power of the weapon,
right, And I think that that'ssomething that people need to understand. And
when I see these idiot young kids, you know, with their sideways holding
up and I'm just thinking, theyhave no clue the power that they have
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in their hand, and that's whypeople get killed, you know. And
we've been doing it for years andyears with Driver's ED. We show the
power of what a car could dowhen you're going thirty miles an hour.
What you know, we just haven'ttranslated to that into firearms training, which
you know, to your point,you know, it's that visual you need
to understand, you understand what it'scapable of. For sure. Yeah.
Yeah, you need to understand thepower that you have and and then wield
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it judiciously. Right. I wasgoing to ask you, you know you
talked about, you know, yourexperiences in your concealed carry what uh,
what do you look for when yougo to a training class. What is
it you're trying to find when youspend your hard ere and money going to
a class. I want someone who'sgoing to make sure that everybody understands what
we're doing, right. I.I want to make sure that at the
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end of the class, I'm comingout with more knowledge than when I went
in. And when I took mysecond concealed carry class, I thought I
just took this like three years agoin Florida, I'm going to know all
this stuff. Well I didn't.I learned something new in that class as
well, and then when I cameout here, I learned something new from
this instructor as well. I likepeople who who are or who are enthusiastic
about what they're doing, and bywhat they're doing, I don't mean guns,
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I mean teaching guns safety, right. I want someone who is enthusiastic
about helping people understand how to haveand operate a firearm safely. So from
my perspective, I want someone whoknows what they're talking about, someone who
is going to teach me something Idon't know, and someone who is going
to help me be better at shootingand safely operating my gut. And those
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three things are really all it takesfor me. Yeah, I think my
favorite students to teach are the firsttime students, because you get them before
they've come into the class. Well, I've always done it this way.
Well then why are you here?Right? At least try this way and
you may find that your way isstill the way that works for you.
But at least try something new.Don't be so ingrained that you can't try
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something new and you can't pick somethingnew up. Oh yeah, for sure.
And I've been in concealed carry classeswhere you have that grizzled old veteran
who just has to take the classso and get his concealed carry. His
annoyance is visible throughout the entire classand the heavy size and all that stuff.
And I'm thinking to myself, there'sprobably something in this class you don't
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know, but he or she isnot even open to that. And I
say, he or she but let'sbe real, it's mostly he's I'm just
yeah, yeah. When you haveyour arms crossed, you're not open to
anything. Yeah, sitting back there, see and your toothpick angry that you
have to take the class. It'slike, you know, just just open
your mind, you might be ableto learn something new. Well, and
(27:22):
it goes back to the experience,right, you don't want to make it
a bad experience for someone else.Well, this guy's super annoyed. Well,
well maybe I should be. Youknow, just let people learn at
their own pace, if you will, right, exactly. So you mentioned
your CCW stuff. What other kindof training have you got to do,
Mandy? You know, official trainingprobably not that much. But I've been
(27:45):
coached by some of the greatest firearmsinstructors that I've ever met in various things.
Definitely, I've gotten a lot ofcoaching and sporting clays and and I've
mostly done target shooting. I've donesome I don't know what it's called where
you where you basically do like thethrough the through the Sheriff's department in Florida.
(28:06):
I got to do the clear theroom kind of stuff. And I'm
not gonna lie I killed a lotof civilians in that land that lesson.
So there's probably you know, whenthings are jumping out at you, that's
an entirely different perspective of of youknow, being a concealed carry permit holder.
I think that if I had tojudge myself on a scale of zero
to ten, zero being I'm readyto take down a bad guy, ten
(28:30):
being you're you're gonna be coming inmy face before I shoot you, I'm
probably a ten. I'm not.You know, I am aware of my
limitations. I'll put it that way. I'm not going to walk around looking
for trouble because, yeah, Idid not farewell in that. It's scary
when that stuff jumps out at you. I wish more people had the opportunity
to do that kind of stuff,to see what police officers deal with on
(28:53):
a regular basis. Well, andyou're kind of you're kind of talking about,
for lack of a better word,scenario based training, whether it's shoots
and no shoots, put it.Putting the target into something real is a
valuable skill because you have now makingthe gun go bang and hitting the target
or is one component. Yeah,when you have time to stand and breathe,
(29:15):
you know, you've got you youdon't have time in that situation.
Yeah, and then when you haveto make a decision and you have to
differentiate is this person a threat,is this person not a thread, it's
a whole different game. I've seenpeople get very emotional when doing scenario based
train to the point of tears orlosing their mind and having to be grabbed
(29:40):
a hold of you need to stop, because they've never had to put that
brain into the into action and thinkand make those decisions on what what do
I do or what do I don'tdo? Here? Yeah, I mean
it was it was very humbling,I think that's the word. It was
very humbling. But it was alsovery instructive for me. Not that I
(30:00):
ever doubted that police officers have ahard job, but that really drove home
the sort of instantaneous life and deathdecision making that has to happen on a
regular basis, and it was definitelyinteresting. I do think that they should
allow more civilians to go through thatprocess. Yeah, it would be interesting
if you could add that as acomponent of CCW. You know, where
(30:22):
there needs to be showed no shootsand I tell people when I've done scenarios
scenario based training. I don't rememberany of the targets, any of the
shoot targets have ever hit. Idon't, but I remember every single no
shoot target that I ever hit,and each one I can remember exactly how
it happened. And I think thatreally ingrains it into the psyche as you
(30:42):
as you move on through your training. I agree, I agree. I'd
love to do that again. I'mnot sure I would do any better,
but now knowing what I know now, I feel like I would have a
slightly better chance of shooting the rightpeople. I'm not sure. Again,
I don't think I'm ready for thepolice force. Let me just say that
I've aged out. I'm good.I was going to ask you, is
(31:04):
there any training that you really wantto do or try and want to do.
I like to try and do someforce on force training, even though
it doesn't appeal to me at all. I mean, I'm not gonna lie.
I don't like being hit. Idon't like being touched. I don't
like being you know, potentially punchedin the face. I don't like any
of those things. But I thinkthat is the most realistic form of training
(31:27):
for the situations that that I wouldthat I carry my concealed carry weapon for
you know. I mean, it'snot like I'm going to be clearing a
building with my weapon like the inthe scenario based training that I did.
But the chances of someone attacking meare far more likely than me having to
(31:48):
go from room to room and cleara building. So like, I don't
want to do it, but Ifeel like I should do it. Does
that make sense? Yeah, Iwas going to ask you if you ever
done force on force training. I'vehad the opportunity, and I've always chickened
out. I'm not gonna lie.I have always said like, yeah,
I'll do that eventually, but realisticallyI know I need to do it,
(32:08):
but it just does not sound funat all. I have recently just wrote
an article it's kind of waiting onbeing published that force on force really kind
of puts everything together because now you'readding the marksmanship component from the range along
with the shoot and no shoot targets. Now adding a human brain working against
(32:29):
you. And I tell people allthe time, find force on force where
it's highly scripted. It's right thegoal. It's not a paintball in melee.
It is a highly scripted event thatis one that's highly controlled where you're
trying to get a specific outcome.Can you explain can you explain a force
on four scenario how that works out? Because I have a vague idea,
(32:50):
but I know your maybe your audiencedoesn't. So a force on force scenario
is a scripted event, So maybeyou kind of get briefed the start of
it. You're going to your kid'sdaycare and you can hear a commotion from
down the hall, or you justwalked into a seven to eleven and you
see a person who looks at thecorner a little shady, and then you
(33:13):
have your brain has to take inall that input, and then you have
to kind of develop a course ofaction. Now there are force on force
scenarios where you don't buire a singleround because that may be the real world
where you your decision making has eliminatedthe need for putting a gun in play
or shooting a threat, things likethat. So it's a very specific kind
(33:36):
of story if you will to designto elicit a certain outcome, and the
outcomes are kind of based on what'syour decision makings. If you do this,
the actor who is the threat inthe Force on force scenario is key
to do something else if you startgiving commands and then maybe he just gives
up and things like that. Soit's a very specific scripted event to designed
(33:59):
to elicit specific outcomes. Not we'recapturing the play and we're gonna spend as
many paintballs as we can. It'syeah, I hate paintball too. Okay,
I hate paintball because those stupid thingshurt. They leave giant bruises.
No one tells you that the firsttime you go to play paintball. They're
like, oh, yeah, you'regonna look like a spotted leopard by the
(34:19):
time this whole thing's over because you'regonna bruises all over your body. Nobody
tells you that, and there's noround accountability and paintball you keep sending them
when people keep sticking their heads out. So you're right on that. So
we'll get into some more lighter stuff. You know, what is your favorite
gun you have right now to shoot? And kind that you're enjoying right now
(34:39):
getting to the range with I,Well, on my face, I'll tell
you that God's honest truth. Iwould much rather shoot a shotgun than any
other kind forgiving right, like youcan kind of be in the general direction
and get something. You don't haveto be a perfect marksman. But I
have a twenty eight gauge four toten over under combo that I absolute lutely
(35:00):
love this gun. It is somuch fun to go to a sporting clays
range and shoot because you don't havethe same kind of distance ability as you
would have with a larger gage shotgun, so you really have to jump on
the birds as soon as they comeout. And I can shoot it all
day. It weighs nothing. It'salmost like shooting a cap gun. I
(35:21):
mean, it has no kick.It is just the most fun to shoot.
The problem is getting ammunition for itis sometimes really challenging. And when
my dad passed away, I gothis shotgun shell reloader, but it's in
a million pieces and I haven't putit back together. And frankly, I
reloaded a gazillion shotgun shells when Iwas a kid, and I just don't
relish doing it again. That's oneof those things that I think when I
(35:43):
retire, I'll probably do that,like I'll be shotgun shells when I retire.
But it's now it's as expensive tobuy all the parts to reload shotgun
shells as you just buy shotgun shells, so you know, let somebody else
do the work, right, It'smuch easier to buy them off a shelf.
That is. Oh yeah, Ispend your Saturday doing it. And
it's once you get a system,it's pretty good. But it's not easy.
(36:07):
It takes some it takes some trialand error and takes some some good
stuff. What if you don't mindme asking what is your carry gun that
you like to carry off duty ornot off duty with out public and well,
for a long time, carry athirty eight Revolver, which I still
love. It's a Smith and Wessonand it is just a phenomenal perfect weight
for my hand. I can shootit from the hip and still get a
(36:30):
tight grouping on the chest, soit's just a wonderful weapon. But it
only has six rounds. So recentlyI bought a Glock forty three X,
which is also perfect for my hand, great great, great gun, but
I have not shot that nearly asmuch as I've shot the thirty eight.
So I still love my revolver.And I bought the Revolver because I went
(36:51):
I went to a gun store andI said, what can I shoot out
of my purse, Like what,what can I actually fire out of my
purse through my purse so at leastI can get a shock and awe kind
of thing going on when the guyrealizes I have an exploding purse, right,
And you don't want something that.You don't want something that can jam,
so you want a revolver. AndI bought this revolver so I could
(37:13):
shoot it through my purse because atthe time I was like, I'll just
carry in my purse because I didn'tknow any better. And it's just been
it's been a great weapon. It'sa great, great gun, and I
can shoot it really, really,really well. My husband has made sure
of that when we go to therange. He's like, Okay, now
pick it up and shoot it fromyour hip. Okay. Now, he's
one of those guys that's always doinglike my little simulated situations to make sure
(37:35):
that I can do that. Butthe Glock forty three X, I really
really just enjoy shooting that. It'svery manageable. That is a weapon that
I've recommended to other women because it'slarge enough to do damage, right,
and you don't want to, likeif you're shooting at twenty two. There's
a chance that someone whacked on ondrugs will not be slowed down by that.
It just is. And so thisweapon is a great size, and
(38:00):
it's a great weight, and itdoesn't have a lot of recoil. So
it's just a really nice handgun.So that's kind of one that I've directed
some other women to. Yeah,that's those are recent additions to the Glock
family. The single, the singlestacked grip yep. And they are a
great gun. And like you said, for hands eye, yeah, for
(38:22):
all of that. They there andthey work really really well. It's one
of I have a Block forty eight. It's one of my out in public
carriers, and it's again it's justeasy to conceal. It works. I
had one where I was able toput a red dot on it. Oh
wow, So do you think that'scheating? Do you think the red dots
(38:45):
cheating? Is it? I wasgoing to ask you, have you done
much much experimentation with the red dots? I have? I have not,
but I'd like to. I mean, I have shotguns with a red light.
I know how my much easier itis to make sure you hit your
target. But there's something in memaybe it's going back to my dad's sense
(39:05):
of sporting, you know, likelike it's just not sporting to put the
red dot right exactly where you wantit. But I'm thinking that in a
situation where a carry weapon, youprobably want to make sure that you're going
to hit what you're going to hit. They are you ask if they're cheating,
they're not, they don't. Iguess people think that the dot is
going to fix the problems that theyhave as a shooter, and that is
(39:30):
not and that is not true.And actually our last podcast was talking on
my friend Jason, and he talksabout how when he put one on his
gun, the sites were right there. It was always there, The dot
was always there, and you canjust look at the target, and then
the dot presented itself right there becausenow you no longer look at your front
site. Now you stare at thetarget and let the dot kind of superimpose
(39:51):
itself in it. Right, So, he was going to tell the story
about how he was so used tohaving to focus on that front site,
see the target, and then shiftmy focus to the front site and then
do all the mechanics that make thegun go bang. He's like, well,
I was just seeing it, donnIt was so easy. So I
was just hammering on the trigger,so mashing rounds off the target because I
had to walk back that and justrealize, yeah, just because the dots
(40:12):
there, I still have to doall the mechanics and fundamentals correct that that
made the gun hit the target whereI wanted to in the first place.
So they're really cool. We werein the baby of pistol mounted optics.
You know, you talked about yourhusband being in the military. You could
(40:34):
probably talk about it at the startof his career, and it was M
sixteen with a carry handle with anA two site, And you go to
today's army, you won't find asingle rifle that doesn't have an optic on
it now, so I think we'rein the same way of pistol mounted optics.
Well, when Chuck was in themilitary and he got out like in
(40:55):
ninety six, I think, soit's been a while, it's been a
hot minute. He was part ofthe tactical team that tested out new weapons,
so he got to see a lotof this stuff that was coming down
the pike before it came down thepike. And now it's all just like
as you said, it's just ubiquitouson all the sort of gear that the
guys have, But it's you know, anything that makes them more accurate.
(41:15):
I'm for you know right right,the red dot thing. It's like,
I wonder if that's going to beone of those things that they try to
legislate because it does make you moreaccurate. Yeah, it's I'll be curious
to see how it does industry wide, if it lessons around with fire war
and things like that, because youactually get to see at the target.
(41:37):
And you know, all these kidswho have grown up doing video games,
they've all had this, and dotson guns have been part of the military,
as Chuck probably is known for years. We just normal folk just didn't
know about him yet. But theyare really really cool and really really allow
you to keep your focus where itneeds to be, down towards a threat.
(41:59):
For sure. Well, I'm opento that. Anything that makes me
more accurate would be good because youknow, right it doesn't fix the crazy
nut behind the wheel of the airplane. It just it just helps point in
the right direction. So I wasgonna ask you one more question and then
we'll go on. What do youthink about youth in youth and the shooting
(42:21):
sports. I know you have awide range of kids' ages. What's your
experience with that, And well,I mean, how do you think that
is? As I said, growingup, when I was a kid,
it was such a just it wasthere. Everybody, everybody I know hunted,
everybody I know owned guns. EveryoneI knew because that was the people
that we were around in a ruralarea. And I'd like to point out,
(42:43):
no one ever came and shot upmy high school. No one ever
glorified guns like we see now.No kids were ever posting pictures of themselves
with their guns sideways or whatever tryingto look cool, because they were just
a part of our community. AndI think that in trying to remove any
sort of training or access to gunsfrom children, you have created a really
(43:06):
perverse incentive for kids to want them. They want to be able to show
how kind of badass they are orwhatever, instead of having the sort of
upbringing that I did, where itwas you always had respect for a weapon.
You always, you know, walkedwith your gun down range, you
always walked with your shotgun open.All of these basic things that were just
(43:30):
a part of the situation from theget go. They deglamorized it. You
know, everybody has a gun safenow, right, We've all got a
gun saved forty locks and they weigha thousand pounds and you have to like
have an eyeball scan to get inthere. To make sure that kids don't
have access to guns. In ourhousehold, my dad had an unlocked cabinet
(43:50):
full of gun unlocked, right.But the thing was, we knew that
if we touched my dad's guns,he would take us out of this world,
like we didn't know. So therewas no playing with firearms. There
was no playing with guns because wehad a clear understanding of what they were
used for, how powerful they were, and the mystery was long gone.
(44:12):
Now that being said, all thatbeing said, I have done a lousy
job with my fourteen year old daughter. She has never fired a weapon,
and I know, I know,but it's one of those things where you
think, well, we'll wait alittle bit longer, and now you know,
now she's actually expressed some interest though, So that was kind of what
I was waiting for. My oldersister never loved shooting because I think it's
(44:37):
kind of she's kind of like agun dog that you you know, got
scared. He took her too soon, and it was too much, and
it was overwhelming, and so shedoes not enjoy shooting at all. And
so I wanted to kind of waituntil my daughter was old enough to make
a decision. But I think afterthis, I'm going to have to take
her to the range and at leastgive her the basic experience of firing a
(44:58):
weapon. I could see her doingit a couple times, just going okay,
no, I'm not going to dothat again. I also want to
take her, as my dad did, to a shotgun range, because my
dad took a cardboard box and hecut out a window in the front of
it and he hung clay birds inthis box, like like a little shooting
gallery. And that's the first timeI shot a gun, was in that
scenario. And you know, you'resix and you shoot it and everything explodes
(45:22):
and it's just fantastic, right right. I want her to have a positive
experience, and it's just we weshe didn't grow up how I grew up.
You know, she didn't grow upin the same environment that I grew
up in. So it's my responsibilityand I've shirked that terribly terrible All right,
Well, our last question I liketo ask everybody, is is there
(45:42):
anything out there that you've seen ata store, in a magazine or things
come down that you're excited to kindof see and get your hands on and
try. I like to shoot bigguns in controlled circumstances, like I got
to a machine gun, which isso fun. If you have a chance
and a lot of charity events,they'll allow you to come out and you
buy, you know, twenty roundsfor twenty dollars or whatever it is,
(46:07):
do it cause because getting to shootthat big stuff is really really fun.
Like I would love to shoot somethingout of a tank one day. I
think that would be outstanding. I'djust like to kind of have that experience
of, yes, I got toshoot that. Because Chuck being in the
military, I mean he's you know, talks about what it's like to shoot
a fifty cow and how you knowit's it's it's a lot, and so
(46:30):
there's things like that. But Idon't, you know, I don't know
if I keep up enough right,what's happening in the firearms industry in terms
of renovation or not renovation, butinnovation to say that there's something out there
that I really really love some ofthe cool stuff that's coming out now.
That I really like though, isthe there are so many more options for
(46:52):
females to carry, like twenty fiveyears ago. Oh my god, has
it been that long? Oh?I just made myself sick thinking about hold.
I am so twenty years ago whenI first got my first concealed carry
permit, there was no options forwomen to carry on their person that were
not bulky, that were not thatyou could not visibly see in a normal
(47:13):
outfit. And that has changed dramaticallyin terms of what's available. They have
specific purses now for Carrie, butI just you know, anything that can
be stripped off your body that easilydoes not need to have a firearm.
So it's there's a lot of optionsin terms of allowing people to safely carry
and truly be concealed for women,right like that? Well, and you
(47:36):
know, being around and going tothe shot shows and stuff, guns are
much more ergonomic too. Yeah,And you know that hasn't always been the
case. You had you had asteel framed Smith and Wesson semi automatic or
forty five, those were your twochoices, right, and we have come
so far from that. So oneof these days. Watch to meet at
the range and I'll bring all mydot guns. You can play with those,
(47:58):
and oh my god, I wouldlove that. I would absolutely love
that. That'd be fantastic. Thisreally is cheating. Yeah, well you
know, but it's like I don'tknow. I do think it's a weird
hold off to my Like my dadwould be like, just get in there
and practice. You won't need thedamn dot I mean, I can hear
him right now. He's passed awaynow, but we'll close it. I
(48:20):
have a quick funny story for you. So when I when dods first started
canting me out, I wanted tobe an instructor, and so I sent
myself to an instructor school and Iwas like your dad. I was on
the fence. I'm like, Idon't need a gun with a battery on
the top, blah blah blah blah. Yeah, and my luggage got lost
with the guns I had built totake to the class. So I told
the instructor and I had mailed myamo to the class, and he said,
well, I have a gun that'sjust smaller. So I had built
(48:43):
a glock thirty four, which isalongside nine millimeter, and he said,
well, I have a block nineteenwith the same optic that you want to
put on yours, so a smallerglocks very similar. He's like, you
can just shoot this and then hopefullyyour luggage shows up and you can and
go from there. So I'm like, all right. I zeroed it when
we talked about zero, and thatsuggested where the dot is, and we
(49:05):
zeroed it three times and I wasringing steel at the fifty yard line.
I'm like, oh my god,this is the coolest thing ever. I've
never been able to do this.So I was sold. I was sold
right then, so it was great. Okay, you might have turned me.
I have to check that out.So you're gonna have to come to
three or three tackle. We'll getyou some information because there's lots there's lots
of good, there's also lots ofbad. I'm convincing that I'm convincing this
(49:29):
life. You really do get whatyou pay for, oh, especially in
this line of you know what we'retalking about here for certain So well,
Manny, thank you so much.This has been great. I love having
conversations with people like this and kindof getting different perspectives and seeing someone's different
point of view on that's for sure. And having all your experience, I
appreciate it so much. Oh,no problem, And I just want to
(49:49):
remind people that can listen to myshow where we don't talk about guns as
much from noon to three Monday throughFriday on KOA News Radio Koacolorado dot com.
You can stream it live from anywhereor listen to the podcast Ask the
Mandy Connell Show on any iHeartMedia platform. That's my little plug for myself there.
Absolutely and for you folks who arelooking for stuff or firearms fundamentals,
reached us at three h three dashTactical dot com and we will help up
(50:14):
all with all your needs there.And if any gun companies or gun shooting
ranges are listening and looking for asponsorship opportunity, we're always looking for those
as well. Manny Connell, thankyou so much. Thank you, James.
I appreciate it