April 15, 2024 • 44 mins
Ross Kaminsky joins us to talk about his exprinces in the shooting sports along with the mechanics of firearms. Ross also shares what it was like to see the Daniel Defense production facility and their efforts for perfection.
Find Ross on 850 KOA in denver or anytime on Iheart.com. Make sure to listen to the whole episode for a fun give away and as always find us at 303-Tactical.com
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/303-tactical--5994602/support.
Find Ross on 850 KOA in denver or anytime on Iheart.com. Make sure to listen to the whole episode for a fun give away and as always find us at 303-Tactical.com
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/303-tactical--5994602/support.
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(00:02):
The three or three Tactical Podcast isproud to be sponsored by mile High Shooting
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Thank you to mile High for supportingthe three or three Taxical Podcast.
This podcast teaches buirearms by use ofthe fundamentals of marksmanship and is for educational
(00:45):
purposes only and should not be usedas legal advice or for any justification.
Hey, everybody, Welcome to thethree h three Task Goal podcast buirearms through
the use of the fundamentals. Todaywe have another special guest with us.
It's Ross Kaminski from eight to fiftyKOA. Ross, say hello and tell
everyone where they can hear yet well, hello and thanks for having me.
(01:11):
James and I am the nine amto noon host Mountain Time, of course
on as you said, KOA Radio, and you can hear me, of
course on eight fifty am in theDenver Metro on ninety four point one FM,
and if you're in other places,you can hear me on the iHeartRadio
app by tuning it to KOA oron your smart speaker by telling it to
(01:36):
play KOA on iHeartRadio. Great Ross. We're gonna get into a couple things
and hit a bunch of different topics. The first one I'd like to ask
all my guests is how did youbecome involved in the shooting sports. I
grew up in a military family,although they were my parents are both doctors
in the Navy. Still military familylived on a near military basis, including
(02:00):
Camp Pendleton Marine Base in southern California, and my dad would just from time
to time take me out shooting.And I can't say I remember very well
what all of the different firearms were, but I remember one for sure,
and it was a Browning b Ltwenty two lever action twenty two rifle.
(02:22):
And once I was reminded later inlife about that, I went and bought
one for myself and I've you know, shot with my kids on that a
little bit, although my kids aren'tas interested as I was, So it
was really my dad just got meinto target shooting in California at Camp Pendleton
at the time. So sometimes Iwould drive with him out to Vegas and
(02:43):
we'd drive through the desert and there'sjust nothing out there, and we would
stop. He'd bring a rifle andwe'd stop somewhere and throw a mountain dew
can out on the sand and justshoot at the mountain dew can and it
was just it was so cool.And as far as really getting into the
sporting aspect of it, that wasprobably when I was in my early twenties
(03:05):
in Chicago, when believe it ornot, there used to be a skeet
club just south of the Lincoln ParkZoo in the heart of this beautiful neighborhood
in Chicago, right on the lakeand you'd shoot out over the lake.
And that was wherely really where Igot into what you might call shooting sports.
(03:27):
That club is gone now because someanti gun activists put out some stuff
about how the lead from the shotwas damaging this, that and the other
thing, and it turned out itwas all made up, but the government
shut the place down and by thetime anybody figured out that it was all
made up, the club was goneand never reopened. Yeah, it's hard
(03:53):
these days to you know, evenwhere we're at in Colorado, it's hard
to go anywhere to find a placeto shoot. You you have to have
some driving in for sure, nodoubt. So we're gonna get into some
more stuff. And I, likeyou, consider myself a responsible gun owner,
and I think in training is animportant part of that, and that's
(04:15):
why I started the three ZHO threeTactical Company and things like that. Tell
me how important training is to you, and what do you think it brings
to own on your own firearms.I think there's nothing more important than training.
I tell my kids this all thetime. You know, like I
said, my kids don't care thatmuch. But let me back it up
(04:36):
a step. There's nothing more importantthan safety. And you don't get to
a high level of confidence in safetywithout not just training, but ongoing training
and practice and all the stuff thatI don't need to repeat to you or
(04:57):
to your viewers and listeners. Ijust tell my kids this stuff all the
time, starting with always assume agun is loaded, even if you unloaded
it yourself, and all the stuffthat follows from that, because of course
I want to be able to protectmy family or potentially even a stranger,
(05:17):
and of course I want to havefun, whether it's sporting plays or going
to the range and shooting an ar. But all of that pales to making
sure that nobody gets hurt who wasn'tsupposed to get hurt. Let's say,
right, you know, it's funnyto talk about that. You can talk
about, you know, treating gunsas if they're always loaded. I was
(05:39):
teaching a class just a couple ofweeks ago, and I was telling the
class, I don't even like andyou know what a blue gun is,
like a plastic replica replication of agun that you use for training and instruction.
And I was telling the class,I don't even like pointing that in
a direction. I try and finda safe direction to point it at.
It's easier to use for illustration,but it still goes back to that hard
(06:00):
and fast rule of treat all gunsthat they're always loaded. Yep. I
mean I like what you're saying there, because you know, you start pointing
a blue gun even though it's justthis piece of plastic and it's blue.
It's literally blue for people who haven'tseen one. You know, I could
(06:21):
develop a bad habit of pointing somethingat someone when when you're in a training
situation. So I love that youdo it that way. People ask me
a lot of times, you know, you know, what do you What
do I personally look for when I'mgoing to train or go spend my hard
earned money on a training class,And I tell people I try and find
(06:42):
a class that's based in fundamentals,so it's you know, has a solid
base, and then is it donein a safe manner. Those are the
two biggest things I look for whenI go to a class myself. Yeah,
so those are critically important. Ilook for the experience level of the
trainer, and I look for aclass that doesn't have too many people because
(07:06):
I like to make sure that thetrainer really gets enough time with me,
not just on the safety aspect,because I'm pretty competent at that right now,
but just to get me better.So you know, I second everything
you said and then would add thoseother bits perfect. Hey, Ross,
(07:27):
let me ask you this, whatis your favorite shooting sport and why is
it your favorite one? Is itjust target shooting? Is it trap?
Is it skied? Is it sportingplays? If you had to pick one.
Yeah, So if I if Icould live in a place that was
near sporting clays, that would bemy favorite. I love sporting clays.
(07:50):
It's logistically difficult for me these daysbecause there is not one anywhere near where
I live, so it's a significanttime commitment. I did just get a
wonderful new shotgun for sporting clays.And if you know, like when I
retire and I could do anything andI could live wherever, I will try
(08:11):
to live near a sporting clay placeand do that. And other than that,
I'm just I love shooting an arthat I built. I love shooting.
I love shooting almost anything. Idon't need to shoot some massive,
high caliber thing, like for me, shooting a fifty cal Desert Eagle pistol
is fun for one and a halfshots, so I don't need that.
(08:35):
I'm every bit as happy shooting atwenty two as I am shooting something bigger,
because it's about the skill and thediscipline and the focus. So I'm
kind of ambivalent between shooting a pistoland a rifle. They're all fun.
(08:56):
I love sporting clays. Yeah,I think sporting plays and we're gonna work
on getting an Olympian short gun shooteron here coming up the next couple episodes.
And I think the sporting plays andthe trap and the skip it really
brings a lot of people into thesports because it's so fun and it's so
the response is instant, right,like either hit the bird or you didn't,
(09:22):
and then you're sending another one.I think it's funny. So what
it brought me into the shooting sportstoo. Yeah. Plus you're outdoors and
you're moving around and and it's kindof it's actually can be kind of social.
I love all that stuff. Ilove all that stuff about it.
Yeah, it's it's like bowling legswith guns. You know, you get
(09:43):
together to hang out with your friendsand have a club. There are so
many clubs that have, you know, just trap clubs and meets and like
trap leagues is the word I waslooking for there. And they do it
once a month and you're right,well, I'm not quite as close to
retiring as but that is another concernof mine is where can I be this
(10:03):
close to a range? I alsothink and I may be wrong on this,
but I think that as shooting sportsgo, sporting clays are probably the
one that probably easiest to get womeninvolved and have them enjoy it, partly
because it's outdoors. Like my wife, for example, she doesn't like guns.
(10:24):
She doesn't hate guns. She's fromAustralia and they didn't grow up with
guns, but she hates shooting indoorsbecause of the noise, even with all
the ear protection, she just hatesit. And you know, getting her
outdoors and maybe, you know,maybe you give her a twenty gage instead
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of a twelve. She's not abig person, but it's just so much
nicer And I like that aspect ofit too. Yeah, I'm with you
on the outdoors. I think itmakes the experience so much better. I'll
put up with a little bit ofweather just to be outside and not crammed
him lane after lane after lane.Yep. So let me ask you this,
(11:07):
what is the favorite or most raregun that you have gotten to shoot
and is there a story that goesalong with it? You know, I
don't. I don't think I haveshot a lot of famous or rare guns.
I've handled a lot of famous orrare guns. Because a friend of
(11:30):
mine is a gunsmith who deals withsome of the coolest stuff. But you
know, if he's handing me somebody'stwo hundred and fifty thousand dollars gun,
I don't get to go shoot it, you know. So I've seen and
handled a lot of these things,but haven't gotten to shoot a ton of
(11:52):
them. So, you know,for me, probably nothing much more interesting
than a you know, five orten thousand dollars shotgun. I wouldn't necessarily
say that's all that memorable. Andyou know, one of the interesting things
with shotguns, and I mean obviouslyyou know this, but when you get
to some of these really expensive guns, Yeah, there's some improvement in performance,
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and the triggers are better and allthis, but it's it's amazing how
much the price goes up for shotgunsbased on fine art in the engraving on
the gun. And so to me, you know, some of these really
remarkable things, you have to thinkof them every bit as much as a
(12:37):
as a piece of art as asanything else. Yeah, you know,
the one, I'll tell you astory. One of the favorite guns of
my collection is a single shot twelvegage that I have. It was the
first twelve gage I was ever Iever owned, but it was bought by
my dad, and I can remembersitting I was probably ten or eleven at
(13:01):
the time, sit in our kitchenand it, you know, it just
has a just a single old woodstockand standing that down in the kitchen and
much of my mother's dismay staining itin the kitchen. You know, I
can remember that doing that with mydad. So it's my favorite gun.
And it doesn't get shot, itjust sits in the same But it brings
back fond memories for me when whenI look at it and I think back
(13:24):
about it. Yeah, that's Ithink my most interesting gun that I own,
separate from the one that I built, is you know. So I
told you that my dad taught meon a Browning bl twenty two, and
so I bought a regular one ofthose. But then I also bought a
collector's edition that's called the Alamo Edition. It has an octagonal barrel and then
(13:48):
it has in set into the stocka little wooden engraving. Uh. And
the wood comes from a three thatused to stand at the Alamo, no
way, And yeah, it's prettyneat and and but the thing is with
these collector guns. The value dropsa lot once you shoot it, even
(14:15):
even just one round through it.So I've never fired it and I probably
never will fire it. But sometimesI just pick it up and look at
it and and I'm really kind oftorn on that, Like how do I
feel about a gun that I'm nevergonna shoot? But that's the that's the
only gun that I have that I'mnever gonna shoot. And I probably I
(14:35):
don't know how many guns I have. I think it's somewhere between twenty five
and thirty. It's in that range. So if there's one that I'm never
gonna shoot, I'm okay with it. Yeah. Now you recently picked up
a nice new shotgun when you startedto getting back into the trashports. Do
you want to tell everyone about that? Yeah? And it's not super fancy,
but man, I'm really good withit. And it's a it's a
(14:58):
Browning story over under, but it'stheir new line that is all composite.
There's no wood, and it's it'suh, it's a lovely gun, and
man, I just hit I justhit stuff with it. You know.
The I hadn't probably done I hadn'tdone sporting clays in a year and I
(15:20):
hadn't and I've only done sporting clays, let's say, five times in eight
years. And I went out thereand picked up this gun, and I
think we I think only we onlytried about fifty that day, but I
think I hit forty of them.And I mean I wasn't even that good
(15:41):
back in the day when I waspracticing. More So, I don't know
that Browning Story and Browning Story issuch a great name. Yeah, classic
gun. But I was just sohappy to pick that up and just freaking
hit everything. You know, myolder gun, I have another Browning Satory
over under, but it's more ofa field gun and it has a much
shorter barrel. This one. Iforget it's twenty six or twenty eight.
(16:03):
It's twenty eight. It's twenty eight, and you know it's designed for sporting
clays, and it really makes adifference. And I love shooting it nice.
Yeah, I saw, I sawthe pictures when you were looking at
it. It's a beautiful gun.And I'll bet it's a great, a
great trap and skeeek gun. Solet me ask you this, if you
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what do you have like a dreamgun? Like? For me? I
want to you know, I havelike five guns that I need to own.
A Colt Python I recently got whenColt started reproducing a Browning high Power,
which I just was recently able torecently get through Springfield. So there's
like a list of five, andlike m one grand is on that list?
(16:45):
Is there like a a Rosses gunlist that one day when he just
has money burning a hole in hispocket that he has to get the Rounding
high Power would be on my list? You know, if I if I
had all the money, I wouldget the license that I need to own
(17:11):
a fully automatic and I would buysome I'd buy like a Tommy gun,
you know, old school, Yeah, old school. I would get some
really cool true machine gun or andit's all right, but I would like
some badass old school machine gun.Of course, not only are those gun
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expensive because you know, for youbasically have to buy one that buy a
machine gun that was made before nineteeneighty four or something like that. I
forget the year, but then yougot to have the money for the AMMO,
right, you know, but thatwould be that would be on my
list. I don't care that muchabout like a Barrett fifty, you know,
(17:59):
I I don't need that huge stuff. What else, I'll tell you
one thing I would like to dothat I've never really done, and I
would like to get into long distanceshooting, So something like lapua of some
sort. I think that would be. I had a friend who told me
(18:22):
that he hit a silver dollar atthree quarters of a mile wow, with
a lapua, And I'm sure I'llnever be able to do that, but
I sure love to try. RightWell, when you're ready for that,
I need to introduce you to mysponsor, mile High Shooting Accessories, because
that's that's their forte is the longrange stuff and they have some really wicked
(18:45):
stuff and really they build world classwinning guns. So wow, Yeah,
I'd love to meet him. Ijust you know, I live in the
suburbs. I don't I've got youngkids. I don't have a ton of
time to drive where I need todrive to be able to take a shot
that long. So I need todo it in a few years when I
retire. That's when I'll try toget into that stuff. Yeah, a
(19:07):
few more years when you're a littlebit more of an empty nester. Exactly
exactly right. So Ross, wekind of talked about it, and as
you describe on your show on eightfifty KOA. You are a nerd.
You love the mechanics of stuff,the engineering of stuff, like you just
talked about it. You know someof the engraving and the artwork on these
(19:30):
guns. What do you find interestingabout the mechanical engineering of firearms? Gosh,
I mean everything, But I'm exploringthis stuff in my own way.
By I built an AR and Ibuilt an equivalent of a Block nineteen,
(19:53):
and it's it's pretty remarkable how differentthey are. Though they were both fire
I realized one's a pistol and one'sa rifle. But still a lot of
this stuff is so different. It'sit's remarkable how that the AR, in
particular, the parts are so standardizedin terms of how they fit together that
(20:15):
it's it's almost fool proof. Notquite like I struggled more getting my block,
my version of a clock to youknow, fire right and cycle right
every time. My AR has beenperfect almost since the moment I built it.
I didn't have to do very much. And just the fact that someone
(20:37):
figures out this pin goes here andthis spring goes there, and then you
know, when I talk with mygunsmith friend and you look at let's say
a spring field or a sig oryou know, thinking in the pistol world
right now, you know, okay, they all have triggers, but the
internals are more different than you mightthink. And just the fact that so
(20:59):
many clever engineers figured out ways tomake it go bang just you know,
blows me away. Pardon the pun. Yeah, it's what's funny about it
is. Yeah, there's new stuffthat comes out, and there's changes in
the engineering and stuff, but alot of the stuff really still is the
same since the original design. There'stweaks here and there, but it really
(21:19):
has been the same. Yeah.I mean, you read a biography of
John Browning and it's just it's incredible, incredible stuff. My friend David Harsani
wrote a book about about Browning,a biography of the guy, and you
just, I mean, you're thinkingback to before there was anything like a
(21:40):
you know, a machine tool.You hand make these parts and figure out
how to put them together, andthen eventually something got would get popular.
And then in the late eighteen hundredsyou start talking about Browning and Winchester and
Remington and all these whoever, andfigure out how to make them in larger
quantities, but just the stories ofthese guys and how you build an actual
(22:02):
industry, you know, in theeighteen hundred's is incredible. And you know,
we think about these names, youknow, the Browning High Power and
my Browning bl twenty two and myBrowning Sentory over Under and you kind of
forget that mister brown and John Browningis an actual dude, and all these
guys, all these names, theseare actual people, mister Glock and you
(22:25):
know, mister Remington, and it'sjust crazy. Well, and they didn't
have the manufacturing that you exist now, right, the computer aided drafting,
all the stuff that they could testout on a computer, they thought it.
I drew it up in their kitchenand then start of filing a piece
of steel he you know, yeah, and then you try to get the
(22:45):
you know, you try to getthe Union Army to buy it right,
and that kind of thing. It'samazing. You know. I wonder when
I think when I get to goto shot show, and I've been blessed
to go a couple times, andyou've been there as well, and I
walked through there and I see thoseespecially the smaller boost because that's what all
those people who are bringing a newproduct to market. That's what they're trying
(23:06):
to do. They're trying to sellit to the army. They're trying to
you know, they're trying to gettheir product to move along and to go
into mass production. It kind ofmakes me think back to the past.
Yeah, I love that entrepreneurial spiritand the little guy and this is a
cool thing with firearms actually, Imean, I know there's an immense amount
of regulation about selling them, butyou know, tinkering around and figuring this
(23:30):
stuff out, you know, almostanybody can do it with a you know
a little bit of ingenuity because thereare so many tools. A lot of
the stuff has to be metal,but to the extent that some of the
stuff can be plastic. Now you'vegot three D printing, and you know,
almost anybody can mess around with thisstuff now and try to figure something
(23:52):
out. Yeah. When when Iwent to this shot show, and I've
mentioned in a couple other episodes,is getting to talk those people and the
level of passion and time and bloodand sweat they have put into their own
product, whether it's a tool foran ar, whether it's a new optic,
whether it's a new site, howmuch time they have invested, and
we've mentioned it in a couple ofour shows. That's really cool to get
(24:15):
to talk to those people, forsure. And so that's the heart of
American entrepreneurship and ingenuity and it andit has been for you know, probably
at least as long as there hasbeen a thing called America, right,
you know, talk about some ofthose ingenuity and engineers. Have you had
(24:37):
the chance to tour the Daniel Defenseplant, Yes, sir, tell me
about that experience. Oh my gosh. Okay, So, first of all,
it's enormous. It's probably like thesize of a super Walmart. And
it you know, divided up intoareas. So one area is doing the
(25:00):
finishing of parts that come out ofthis another machine. They've got all these
really fancy CNC machines that are crankingout barrels or uppers or lowers. And
I think one of the things thatimpressed me most about Daniel Defense is the
(25:22):
attention, the quality control, andthe absolute lack of tolerance for a piece
that isn't perfect. So one ofthe things I noticed was there are these
bins around the machines, and you'vegot folks taking the stuff out of the
machines and measuring this and checking that, and there are these bins that are
just full of parts that they're thrownaway. Now, I'm sure their loss
(25:42):
rate is quite low because they havethese very fancy, expensive machines and they
really do their processes right. Soas a percentage, I'm sure the loss
rate is pretty low. But there'sjust no tolerance for anything that isn't perfect,
So they only have tolerance for thingsthat are within all the tolerances.
(26:03):
And it's a you know, I'mjust super impressed by that. And I
own, forget how many I'm Iown at least two Daniel Defense rifles and
a Daniel Defense suppressor, and Ithink I'm forgetting something else, but it's
just a it's a great American brand. I also had the chance to go
(26:23):
out to their range and shoot someof their stuff, including what was at
the time a brand new rifle it'sbeen out for a couple of years now,
which is their bolt action rifle.That's a gorgeous thing. They have
a new pistol that I don't haveyet but I really want to get.
And I got to shoot a coupleof their ars that had been modified to
(26:47):
be full auto fully legal because they'rethe gun company, and I didn't take
it anywhere. And boy, shootinga Daniel defense machine gun standing up,
not prone, not resting it onany ding is just one of the great
thrills in my life. Yeah.I was going to ask you if you
had heard about their new pistol thatthey have coming. I got the chance
(27:07):
to see it at chat show.It's it's something impressive. I hope I
can get my hands on one heresooner than later. Yeah. So I'm
not expert on this, but it'sit's based on a particular other pistol that
maybe they even bought the rights to. I could be getting this story all
wrong. And I don't remember thename. It's like Hudson or something.
I don't remember. But and andso they've got it's it's a very new
(27:30):
kind of pistol. I think it'sbeen out for less than a year.
And I want one too. Iwant one too. Yeah, And you
talk about Daniel stuff that there's stuff'sall quality. And I've enjoyed a lot
of their stuff because I think,I mean, I think a lot of
this is spend money on quality sothat your training or time on the range
(27:51):
is spent shooting and getting the bestamount of time doing the things you enjoy
versus trying to make something that yousaved a few bucks on work. Yeah,
I'll tell you this like half tonguein cheek. But there's one downside
to getting a firearm as good asa Daniel defense, and that is because
of what I was saying before abouttolerance. Is sometimes they won't work very
(28:17):
well with inexpensive or rather re remanufacturedammunition. So if you're gonna get a
really good gun, then you shouldexpect to treat it well by just using
new ammo and not remanufactured ammo andalso not you know, chunky, dirty
(28:37):
Russian ammo not all. Well,I don't buy any I don't buy any
Russian anything anymore. But back inthe day when it was still okay to
buy Russian stuff, there were someRussian AMMO products that were decent, but
most of them weren't. Really.If you're going to get a fine firearm,
you know, feed it, well, well, it's the same thing.
(29:02):
You wouldn't buy a Ferrari and youput this regular on let of gas
in it, would you. Iwould do whatever the manufacturer told me to
do with a car like that exactly. Hey, Ross, when you built
your own AR, did it kindof give you an appreciation for how all
those things finally come together? Yeah? I mean again, I go back
to what I said before. Itreally makes you marvel ars in particular shockingly
(29:29):
simple. There's not that many parts, and you can pretty easily learn how
to take it apart and put ittogether and build another one and replace something.
And if something isn't working right,you don't have to study all that
long to have a decent guess asto what isn't working right. And gosh,
it is just an incredible thing ofsomething that does that is so mechanically
(29:57):
simple. And yet you know,you could give me a billion dollars and
say design that, and I couldn't. And but it's a it's amazing,
absolutely amazing. Ross. I thinkwe'd be remiss if we didn't tell people
what color your AR that you builtwas. Oh, my AR is in
(30:19):
Denver, broncos colors. Parts ofit are blue, parts of it are
orange. And let's see the uhthe upper the upper is blue, the
handguard is orange. And I Ianodized it myself. That's this. Most
of the parts. I have asuper nerdy friend who went to School of
(30:40):
Minds, and and we anidized stufffor ourselves, so only one or two
of the parts came from the factoryin a color. Most of them I
got his raw aluminum and we anodizedthem ourselves, so yeah, blue and
orange. And then the suppressor,well, obviously the suppressor itself is neither
blue nor orange, but I boughta cover for this pressler that's blue.
So yeah, and so my goalis to go get John Elway to sign
(31:06):
it one day. Nice, that'dbe excellent. How long did it take
you put all that together? Well, I did it slowly because I didn't
want to make any mistakes, andI just did it when I had a
little bit of free time here andthere. So I probably got it done
over the course of a week anda half. But if you were just
(31:30):
talking about how many minutes actually sittingthere working on it, you know,
probably probably probably four hours because itwas my first one and I went real
slow. But if you were goodat this and you had done it a
few times, like you could definitelyan ar in under half an hour.
(31:52):
Yeah, I've seen I've seen competentgunsmiths who can do that. And I'm
talking every part from barrel to no, we're you know, and putting it
on just because they've done it somuch. And you're, like you said,
it really fits together really well,and once you know how it goes
together. I tell people all thetime when you talk about air fifteen's part
of the the thing about that gunis every part has a spring and a
(32:14):
detent somewhere behind it, right,which makes it almost impossible to put in
ron. Yeah, we have afriend who comes on Jason from a Blue
Angel concept and he likes to jokeand say, the Marines have been teaching
(32:36):
I'm gonna mess up the quote.The Marines have been teaching some of the
most dumb people to shoot this rifleup to five hundred yards forever. So
that's why it's so simplistic. That'sthat's a little bit mean to the Marines,
and I know they have a reputationfor chewing on crayons. He is
as your Navy Marines. I lovethe Marines. I grew up around Marines,
(33:02):
and uh, I got a sautpartin my heart for Marines, even
though I grew up in Navy brattRoss. I think we're coming close to
the end here, let me askyou this question, if you could do
if you were an Olympics gonna bean Olympic sport, which one would you
pick for shooting? Wow? Wow? Uh? Well, I don't know
(33:25):
that I know all of them.Why don't you tell me what all of
the Olympic shooting sports are that Iwould know all of them. But I
know there's the air pistols, theair rifles. Yeah, the sporting plays
and stuff like that. Well,isn't the isn't the biathlon the one where
you got to ski and then shootand then and then then shoot. Yeah,
that sounds awesome, doesn't it.It sounds exhausting. I think,
(33:50):
yeah, it does sound exhausting,but it sounds awesome. And I'll say
two other things. The guns,the custom guns they have for that sport
are some of the coolest looking firearmsI've ever seen in my life. And
I hope my wife's not looking.But pretty girls do that sport too,
So I think I think I likedthat one. I think I was watching
(34:15):
I think it is probably the biathlon, and me and my daughter were watching
it and they were shooting, andI told her, looked over her and
I said, for the price ofone of those guns, I could send
you to a college. And shekind of looked at it. She's really
young at the time, she didn'tquite understand. But yeah, there's there's
no expense spared in that stuff.And the amount of time those people take
to h to be that good.I mean, I have a friend who
(34:38):
was a I think it was anair crystal shooter, and he went to
the game. When were the gamesin Australia? Do you remember they were?
No, I don't know. Ican't remember how long ago it was,
but he said he finished, youknow, in the twenties. He's
like, I didn't meddle, butI still was the twenty sixth best shooter
in the world that day. SoI still think that's pretty cool. Just
(35:00):
making the Olympics is beyond amazing.You know what people always joke about,
how like the silver medal is thefirst loser, right, the silver medal
makes you second best in the world. It's something that thousands or maybe millions
of people do, and just gettingthere is something I can't imagine really well.
(35:22):
And the dedication that sacrifice those people. You know, we're fortunate we
live in Colorado, so we kindof get to experience a little bit with
the Olympic Training Center here. Justthe amount of dedication those people put to
you, because that's all they do. They go to sleep thinking about shooting.
They wake up thinking about shooting orjudo or whatever their sport is,
but that is all they do.Imagine being good enough at shooting that you
(35:45):
get sponsored for it, and someonepays your rent, and someone pays your
food, and someone buys you onehundred thousand dollars gun and all you got
to do is get up and goshoot. Now that is pretty amazing.
I just be happy if I couldget my Ammo sponsored, seeing now you
know, that's the most expensive partof my ship. I'll buy my own
guns, but the Ammo part isa is a big letdown. We've been
(36:08):
fortunate here too. We've got Igot some boxes, older boxes of Ammo
that still have the prices on them, you know. So a box of
a thousand twenty two and it waslike twelve bucks, and a box you
know it's in a box of ninemillimeter that was six bucks. Oh man,
(36:32):
it's it's funny you mentioned that this. That's the reason me and my
brother and my dad took us todo like trap and skeet and stuff was
because it was cheap and we coulddo it. We didn't have a whole
lot of money growing up, butyou know, you could spend twenty dollars
and spend the whole day at shootingtrap. Yeah, it's not that way
anymore, and that's unfortunate because it'snot it's not. Shotgun Ammo is relatively
(36:57):
cheap still, but the cost ofthe of the clays really adds up.
I mean, you know, youcould be talking about forty fifty cents a
shot for the clay, forty fiftycents a bird, and you know,
shotgun AMMO is relatively affordable compared towhat's happened with the prices. Like one
of my Daniel Defense guns, No. Two of them are three hundred blackout,
(37:21):
which is probably my favorite round toshoot, well because I love shooting
AK forty seven as well, andthree hundred blackout is kind of like the
US equivalent of the seven sixty twoby thirty nine, and and I love
shooting this stuff suppressed. And threehundred blackouts suppressed, which used to be
sixty cents, went to a dollartwenty and now it's back down to like
(37:44):
ninety cents, but it's still fiftypercent more and it just kind of pisses
me off to feel like I'm losingthe dollar every time I move my finger.
Yeah, you know, we we'vewe've had a couple of junior competitive
shooters and we've had jay Lee's Williamsfrom who as a pro shooter for cold
and they talk about, you know, especially when they're first starting up,
how much that cost, and thatthe first thing they want to get is
(38:07):
a sponsor for ammunitions because to bethat good and to be that good of
a shooter, the constant number ofrounds that it takes to send down range
is so expensive. And one ofthe moms that the junior shooter was talking
about, it's like, you know, knowing that we invested in this and
that every time he pulls the trigger, you know, it costs money.
Yeah. Yeah, well it's partof the reason I like shooting twenty two.
(38:30):
You know, it's a lot moreexpensive than it used to be,
but it's still pretty cheap for sure. All Right. Ross, So we're
coming up to the end here,and before we got some giveaways and and
I gotta pay awmache to our sponsors. Is there anything new out there that
you think you want to try andget a hold of. I can make
your dream of shooting a Browning highPower come true. I have one of
(38:51):
those that we can get together andyou can shoot. Is there anything else
that's new and you want to try? Well that Daniel Defense pistol problem Blake.
Yeah, if you get a holdof that, you need to give
me a text and we'll meet atthe same time. We can do a
swap. We can trade the Browninghigh Power for the h die from Daniels
and then and we'll make a lunchout of it. I'll tell you what.
(39:16):
Send me a link to this whenit's up, and we'll see what
my friends at Daniel Defense have tosay about it. You know it's funny
you said, we'll send it mylink to my friends at Daniels. I
started this podcast and I didn't Iknew this, but I didn't really know
it. How close this community is. Everyone's a friend, everyone knows someone,
(39:37):
everyone wants to share things with otherpeople. I think that's one of
the great thing that makes the shootingsports and the shooting industry probably unique in
its own couldn't agree more, reallyreally nice people involved in every shooting,
sport, every place, every time. You know, if you meet someone
(39:58):
in your chatting, it's a it'sa fun, warm conversation, something other
than our cell phones, for sure, That's right. Hey, Ross,
do you like giveaways? Love them? Especially when I win them? Your
best I'm not giveaways on my ownshow either. All right, I don't
(40:20):
win anything. I'm going to doa giveaway with the trivia question, and
if you know the answer, I'mgoing to ask you here, but don't
don't shout out the answer. Soin my hands, Oh yes, in
my hands, I have two magpollp mag seventeen's for the Block seventeen,
two brand new magazines. They willgo to the person who can answer this
(40:44):
trivia question the first person to emailme at three oh three Tactical Training at
gmail dot com. Again three ohthree Tactical Training at gmail dot com before
May. First, the trivia questionis this? In the movie Die Hard
Too, John McClain talks about acertain glock that the bad guys were armed
(41:07):
with that escapes metal detectors. Doyou know what model a glock? It
was the first person to email methat answer and make sure it's legal to
own in your location. We'll gettwo brand new magpol p maags. Do
you know the answer? Ross,I can picture I can picture it,
(41:27):
but I don't know. I don'tknow the answer. Nope. It is
a completely made up gun, madeup for that movie. It doesn't exist.
Yeah, I want the model thatJohn McClain. That's pretty cool.
That's pretty cool, you know.Just I know we're about done, but
I'll just mention one other super funthing that I had the chance to shoot.
I have a friend who is nowretired from law enforcement, but he
(41:52):
had and I'm going to get themodel number wrong, but he had the
glock pistol that's full auto. Youknow. I'm I was a sixteen or
an eighteen or I want to sayit in eighteen, but yeah, and
I got to shoot that. Soit's nine millimeter full auto and you could
(42:13):
put an extended clock mag intoto itand just and fire off twenty or thirty.
That was unbelievable. But boy,the first time this thing was really
riding up on me. Uh,and then I got it under control.
It was actually kind of sort ofalmost accurate with it. But that was
really fun. Yeah, it's theglock eighteen and I'll do you one better.
(42:35):
I may have been in a trainingclass where the uh range had a
couple of those, and it happenedto be on the third of July,
and we happened to be able tohelp experience those on third of July during
a training class. They're You're right, they're a good time once you could
control it. So yeah, ourtrivia question, make sure you email me
up on that. Before I getout of here. I need to say
(42:58):
thanks to Mile High Shooting where he'sup in Frederick, Colorado. They're great
supporters of the three or three Tacticalpodcast. You can find them up at
Frederick, Colorado or anytime at milehigh shooting dot com. Whether it's your
first gun or you want to builda world champion winning gun, Mile High
Shooting is a place for you.So Ross, thanks for your time.
Give everyone. Let everyone know wherethey can find you again. You can
(43:22):
find me over the airwaves at eightpoint fifty AM or ninety four point one
FM on KOA Radio in Denver,on the iHeartRadio app KOA on your smart
speaker you tell it to play KOAon iHeartRadio, or you can actually listen
on a computer as well. Butlots of places to find me, and
(43:45):
I hope you hope everyone checks meout nine am to noon mountain time,
weekdays. All right, everybody,and thanks thanks for Ross for coming on
the three or three Tactical podcast,and we'll talk to you next time.
The three or three Tactical Podcast isproud to be sponsored by mile High Shooting
Accessories. Mile High is a locallyowned, full service firearm store which has
world class products along with a worldclass sales staff and gun building crew.
Mile Highest perfect for your first gunbuild and purchase or when you're ready to
build a world championship winning gun.Mile High as a store for you,
(00:23):
celebrating twenty years of business and,as they say in the store, a
mile high above the rest. MyHigh is located at fifty eight thirty one
Ideal Drive, Frederick, Colorado,or anytime at mile high shooting dot com.
Thank you to mile High for supportingthe three or three Taxical Podcast.
This podcast teaches buirearms by use ofthe fundamentals of marksmanship and is for educational
(00:45):
purposes only and should not be usedas legal advice or for any justification.
Hey, everybody, Welcome to thethree h three Task Goal podcast buirearms through
the use of the fundamentals. Todaywe have another special guest with us.
It's Ross Kaminski from eight to fiftyKOA. Ross, say hello and tell
everyone where they can hear yet well, hello and thanks for having me.
(01:11):
James and I am the nine amto noon host Mountain Time, of course
on as you said, KOA Radio, and you can hear me, of
course on eight fifty am in theDenver Metro on ninety four point one FM,
and if you're in other places,you can hear me on the iHeartRadio
app by tuning it to KOA oron your smart speaker by telling it to
(01:36):
play KOA on iHeartRadio. Great Ross. We're gonna get into a couple things
and hit a bunch of different topics. The first one I'd like to ask
all my guests is how did youbecome involved in the shooting sports. I
grew up in a military family,although they were my parents are both doctors
in the Navy. Still military familylived on a near military basis, including
(02:00):
Camp Pendleton Marine Base in southern California, and my dad would just from time
to time take me out shooting.And I can't say I remember very well
what all of the different firearms were, but I remember one for sure,
and it was a Browning b Ltwenty two lever action twenty two rifle.
(02:22):
And once I was reminded later inlife about that, I went and bought
one for myself and I've you know, shot with my kids on that a
little bit, although my kids aren'tas interested as I was, So it
was really my dad just got meinto target shooting in California at Camp Pendleton
at the time. So sometimes Iwould drive with him out to Vegas and
(02:43):
we'd drive through the desert and there'sjust nothing out there, and we would
stop. He'd bring a rifle andwe'd stop somewhere and throw a mountain dew
can out on the sand and justshoot at the mountain dew can and it
was just it was so cool.And as far as really getting into the
sporting aspect of it, that wasprobably when I was in my early twenties
(03:05):
in Chicago, when believe it ornot, there used to be a skeet
club just south of the Lincoln ParkZoo in the heart of this beautiful neighborhood
in Chicago, right on the lakeand you'd shoot out over the lake.
And that was wherely really where Igot into what you might call shooting sports.
(03:27):
That club is gone now because someanti gun activists put out some stuff
about how the lead from the shotwas damaging this, that and the other
thing, and it turned out itwas all made up, but the government
shut the place down and by thetime anybody figured out that it was all
made up, the club was goneand never reopened. Yeah, it's hard
(03:53):
these days to you know, evenwhere we're at in Colorado, it's hard
to go anywhere to find a placeto shoot. You you have to have
some driving in for sure, nodoubt. So we're gonna get into some
more stuff. And I, likeyou, consider myself a responsible gun owner,
and I think in training is animportant part of that, and that's
(04:15):
why I started the three ZHO threeTactical Company and things like that. Tell
me how important training is to you, and what do you think it brings
to own on your own firearms.I think there's nothing more important than training.
I tell my kids this all thetime. You know, like I
said, my kids don't care thatmuch. But let me back it up
(04:36):
a step. There's nothing more importantthan safety. And you don't get to
a high level of confidence in safetywithout not just training, but ongoing training
and practice and all the stuff thatI don't need to repeat to you or
(04:57):
to your viewers and listeners. Ijust tell my kids this stuff all the
time, starting with always assume agun is loaded, even if you unloaded
it yourself, and all the stuffthat follows from that, because of course
I want to be able to protectmy family or potentially even a stranger,
(05:17):
and of course I want to havefun, whether it's sporting plays or going
to the range and shooting an ar. But all of that pales to making
sure that nobody gets hurt who wasn'tsupposed to get hurt. Let's say,
right, you know, it's funnyto talk about that. You can talk
about, you know, treating gunsas if they're always loaded. I was
(05:39):
teaching a class just a couple ofweeks ago, and I was telling the
class, I don't even like andyou know what a blue gun is,
like a plastic replica replication of agun that you use for training and instruction.
And I was telling the class,I don't even like pointing that in
a direction. I try and finda safe direction to point it at.
It's easier to use for illustration,but it still goes back to that hard
(06:00):
and fast rule of treat all gunsthat they're always loaded. Yep. I
mean I like what you're saying there, because you know, you start pointing
a blue gun even though it's justthis piece of plastic and it's blue.
It's literally blue for people who haven'tseen one. You know, I could
(06:21):
develop a bad habit of pointing somethingat someone when when you're in a training
situation. So I love that youdo it that way. People ask me
a lot of times, you know, you know, what do you What
do I personally look for when I'mgoing to train or go spend my hard
earned money on a training class,And I tell people I try and find
(06:42):
a class that's based in fundamentals,so it's you know, has a solid
base, and then is it donein a safe manner. Those are the
two biggest things I look for whenI go to a class myself. Yeah,
so those are critically important. Ilook for the experience level of the
trainer, and I look for aclass that doesn't have too many people because
(07:06):
I like to make sure that thetrainer really gets enough time with me,
not just on the safety aspect,because I'm pretty competent at that right now,
but just to get me better.So you know, I second everything
you said and then would add thoseother bits perfect. Hey, Ross,
(07:27):
let me ask you this, whatis your favorite shooting sport and why is
it your favorite one? Is itjust target shooting? Is it trap?
Is it skied? Is it sportingplays? If you had to pick one.
Yeah, So if I if Icould live in a place that was
near sporting clays, that would bemy favorite. I love sporting clays.
(07:50):
It's logistically difficult for me these daysbecause there is not one anywhere near where
I live, so it's a significanttime commitment. I did just get a
wonderful new shotgun for sporting clays.And if you know, like when I
retire and I could do anything andI could live wherever, I will try
(08:11):
to live near a sporting clay placeand do that. And other than that,
I'm just I love shooting an arthat I built. I love shooting.
I love shooting almost anything. Idon't need to shoot some massive,
high caliber thing, like for me, shooting a fifty cal Desert Eagle pistol
is fun for one and a halfshots, so I don't need that.
(08:35):
I'm every bit as happy shooting atwenty two as I am shooting something bigger,
because it's about the skill and thediscipline and the focus. So I'm
kind of ambivalent between shooting a pistoland a rifle. They're all fun.
(08:56):
I love sporting clays. Yeah,I think sporting plays and we're gonna work
on getting an Olympian short gun shooteron here coming up the next couple episodes.
And I think the sporting plays andthe trap and the skip it really
brings a lot of people into thesports because it's so fun and it's so
the response is instant, right,like either hit the bird or you didn't,
(09:22):
and then you're sending another one.I think it's funny. So what
it brought me into the shooting sportstoo. Yeah. Plus you're outdoors and
you're moving around and and it's kindof it's actually can be kind of social.
I love all that stuff. Ilove all that stuff about it.
Yeah, it's it's like bowling legswith guns. You know, you get
(09:43):
together to hang out with your friendsand have a club. There are so
many clubs that have, you know, just trap clubs and meets and like
trap leagues is the word I waslooking for there. And they do it
once a month and you're right,well, I'm not quite as close to
retiring as but that is another concernof mine is where can I be this
(10:03):
close to a range? I alsothink and I may be wrong on this,
but I think that as shooting sportsgo, sporting clays are probably the
one that probably easiest to get womeninvolved and have them enjoy it, partly
because it's outdoors. Like my wife, for example, she doesn't like guns.
(10:24):
She doesn't hate guns. She's fromAustralia and they didn't grow up with
guns, but she hates shooting indoorsbecause of the noise, even with all
the ear protection, she just hatesit. And you know, getting her
outdoors and maybe, you know,maybe you give her a twenty gage instead
(10:45):
of a twelve. She's not abig person, but it's just so much
nicer And I like that aspect ofit too. Yeah, I'm with you
on the outdoors. I think itmakes the experience so much better. I'll
put up with a little bit ofweather just to be outside and not crammed
him lane after lane after lane.Yep. So let me ask you this,
(11:07):
what is the favorite or most raregun that you have gotten to shoot
and is there a story that goesalong with it? You know, I
don't. I don't think I haveshot a lot of famous or rare guns.
I've handled a lot of famous orrare guns. Because a friend of
(11:30):
mine is a gunsmith who deals withsome of the coolest stuff. But you
know, if he's handing me somebody'stwo hundred and fifty thousand dollars gun,
I don't get to go shoot it, you know. So I've seen and
handled a lot of these things,but haven't gotten to shoot a ton of
(11:52):
them. So, you know,for me, probably nothing much more interesting
than a you know, five orten thousand dollars shotgun. I wouldn't necessarily
say that's all that memorable. Andyou know, one of the interesting things
with shotguns, and I mean obviouslyyou know this, but when you get
to some of these really expensive guns, Yeah, there's some improvement in performance,
(12:15):
and the triggers are better and allthis, but it's it's amazing how
much the price goes up for shotgunsbased on fine art in the engraving on
the gun. And so to me, you know, some of these really
remarkable things, you have to thinkof them every bit as much as a
(12:37):
as a piece of art as asanything else. Yeah, you know,
the one, I'll tell you astory. One of the favorite guns of
my collection is a single shot twelvegage that I have. It was the
first twelve gage I was ever Iever owned, but it was bought by
my dad, and I can remembersitting I was probably ten or eleven at
(13:01):
the time, sit in our kitchenand it, you know, it just
has a just a single old woodstockand standing that down in the kitchen and
much of my mother's dismay staining itin the kitchen. You know, I
can remember that doing that with mydad. So it's my favorite gun.
And it doesn't get shot, itjust sits in the same But it brings
back fond memories for me when whenI look at it and I think back
(13:24):
about it. Yeah, that's Ithink my most interesting gun that I own,
separate from the one that I built, is you know. So I
told you that my dad taught meon a Browning bl twenty two, and
so I bought a regular one ofthose. But then I also bought a
collector's edition that's called the Alamo Edition. It has an octagonal barrel and then
(13:48):
it has in set into the stocka little wooden engraving. Uh. And
the wood comes from a three thatused to stand at the Alamo, no
way, And yeah, it's prettyneat and and but the thing is with
these collector guns. The value dropsa lot once you shoot it, even
(14:15):
even just one round through it.So I've never fired it and I probably
never will fire it. But sometimesI just pick it up and look at
it and and I'm really kind oftorn on that, Like how do I
feel about a gun that I'm nevergonna shoot? But that's the that's the
only gun that I have that I'mnever gonna shoot. And I probably I
(14:35):
don't know how many guns I have. I think it's somewhere between twenty five
and thirty. It's in that range. So if there's one that I'm never
gonna shoot, I'm okay with it. Yeah. Now you recently picked up
a nice new shotgun when you startedto getting back into the trashports. Do
you want to tell everyone about that? Yeah? And it's not super fancy,
but man, I'm really good withit. And it's a it's a
(14:58):
Browning story over under, but it'stheir new line that is all composite.
There's no wood, and it's it'suh, it's a lovely gun, and
man, I just hit I justhit stuff with it. You know.
The I hadn't probably done I hadn'tdone sporting clays in a year and I
(15:20):
hadn't and I've only done sporting clays, let's say, five times in eight
years. And I went out thereand picked up this gun, and I
think we I think only we onlytried about fifty that day, but I
think I hit forty of them.And I mean I wasn't even that good
(15:41):
back in the day when I waspracticing. More So, I don't know
that Browning Story and Browning Story issuch a great name. Yeah, classic
gun. But I was just sohappy to pick that up and just freaking
hit everything. You know, myolder gun, I have another Browning Satory
over under, but it's more ofa field gun and it has a much
shorter barrel. This one. Iforget it's twenty six or twenty eight.
(16:03):
It's twenty eight. It's twenty eight, and you know it's designed for sporting
clays, and it really makes adifference. And I love shooting it nice.
Yeah, I saw, I sawthe pictures when you were looking at
it. It's a beautiful gun.And I'll bet it's a great, a
great trap and skeeek gun. Solet me ask you this, if you
(16:25):
what do you have like a dreamgun? Like? For me? I
want to you know, I havelike five guns that I need to own.
A Colt Python I recently got whenColt started reproducing a Browning high Power,
which I just was recently able torecently get through Springfield. So there's
like a list of five, andlike m one grand is on that list?
(16:45):
Is there like a a Rosses gunlist that one day when he just
has money burning a hole in hispocket that he has to get the Rounding
high Power would be on my list? You know, if I if I
had all the money, I wouldget the license that I need to own
(17:11):
a fully automatic and I would buysome I'd buy like a Tommy gun,
you know, old school, Yeah, old school. I would get some
really cool true machine gun or andit's all right, but I would like
some badass old school machine gun.Of course, not only are those gun
(17:36):
expensive because you know, for youbasically have to buy one that buy a
machine gun that was made before nineteeneighty four or something like that. I
forget the year, but then yougot to have the money for the AMMO,
right, you know, but thatwould be that would be on my
list. I don't care that muchabout like a Barrett fifty, you know,
(17:59):
I I don't need that huge stuff. What else, I'll tell you
one thing I would like to dothat I've never really done, and I
would like to get into long distanceshooting, So something like lapua of some
sort. I think that would be. I had a friend who told me
(18:22):
that he hit a silver dollar atthree quarters of a mile wow, with
a lapua, And I'm sure I'llnever be able to do that, but
I sure love to try. RightWell, when you're ready for that,
I need to introduce you to mysponsor, mile High Shooting Accessories, because
that's that's their forte is the longrange stuff and they have some really wicked
(18:45):
stuff and really they build world classwinning guns. So wow, Yeah,
I'd love to meet him. Ijust you know, I live in the
suburbs. I don't I've got youngkids. I don't have a ton of
time to drive where I need todrive to be able to take a shot
that long. So I need todo it in a few years when I
retire. That's when I'll try toget into that stuff. Yeah, a
(19:07):
few more years when you're a littlebit more of an empty nester. Exactly
exactly right. So Ross, wekind of talked about it, and as
you describe on your show on eightfifty KOA. You are a nerd.
You love the mechanics of stuff,the engineering of stuff, like you just
talked about it. You know someof the engraving and the artwork on these
(19:30):
guns. What do you find interestingabout the mechanical engineering of firearms? Gosh,
I mean everything, But I'm exploringthis stuff in my own way.
By I built an AR and Ibuilt an equivalent of a Block nineteen,
(19:53):
and it's it's pretty remarkable how differentthey are. Though they were both fire
I realized one's a pistol and one'sa rifle. But still a lot of
this stuff is so different. It'sit's remarkable how that the AR, in
particular, the parts are so standardizedin terms of how they fit together that
(20:15):
it's it's almost fool proof. Notquite like I struggled more getting my block,
my version of a clock to youknow, fire right and cycle right
every time. My AR has beenperfect almost since the moment I built it.
I didn't have to do very much. And just the fact that someone
(20:37):
figures out this pin goes here andthis spring goes there, and then you
know, when I talk with mygunsmith friend and you look at let's say
a spring field or a sig oryou know, thinking in the pistol world
right now, you know, okay, they all have triggers, but the
internals are more different than you mightthink. And just the fact that so
(20:59):
many clever engineers figured out ways tomake it go bang just you know,
blows me away. Pardon the pun. Yeah, it's what's funny about it
is. Yeah, there's new stuffthat comes out, and there's changes in
the engineering and stuff, but alot of the stuff really still is the
same since the original design. There'stweaks here and there, but it really
(21:19):
has been the same. Yeah.I mean, you read a biography of
John Browning and it's just it's incredible, incredible stuff. My friend David Harsani
wrote a book about about Browning,a biography of the guy, and you
just, I mean, you're thinkingback to before there was anything like a
(21:40):
you know, a machine tool.You hand make these parts and figure out
how to put them together, andthen eventually something got would get popular.
And then in the late eighteen hundredsyou start talking about Browning and Winchester and
Remington and all these whoever, andfigure out how to make them in larger
quantities, but just the stories ofthese guys and how you build an actual
(22:02):
industry, you know, in theeighteen hundred's is incredible. And you know,
we think about these names, youknow, the Browning High Power and
my Browning bl twenty two and myBrowning Sentory over Under and you kind of
forget that mister brown and John Browningis an actual dude, and all these
guys, all these names, theseare actual people, mister Glock and you
(22:25):
know, mister Remington, and it'sjust crazy. Well, and they didn't
have the manufacturing that you exist now, right, the computer aided drafting,
all the stuff that they could testout on a computer, they thought it.
I drew it up in their kitchenand then start of filing a piece
of steel he you know, yeah, and then you try to get the
(22:45):
you know, you try to getthe Union Army to buy it right,
and that kind of thing. It'samazing. You know. I wonder when
I think when I get to goto shot show, and I've been blessed
to go a couple times, andyou've been there as well, and I
walked through there and I see thoseespecially the smaller boost because that's what all
those people who are bringing a newproduct to market. That's what they're trying
(23:06):
to do. They're trying to sellit to the army. They're trying to
you know, they're trying to gettheir product to move along and to go
into mass production. It kind ofmakes me think back to the past.
Yeah, I love that entrepreneurial spiritand the little guy and this is a
cool thing with firearms actually, Imean, I know there's an immense amount
of regulation about selling them, butyou know, tinkering around and figuring this
(23:30):
stuff out, you know, almostanybody can do it with a you know
a little bit of ingenuity because thereare so many tools. A lot of
the stuff has to be metal,but to the extent that some of the
stuff can be plastic. Now you'vegot three D printing, and you know,
almost anybody can mess around with thisstuff now and try to figure something
(23:52):
out. Yeah. When when Iwent to this shot show, and I've
mentioned in a couple other episodes,is getting to talk those people and the
level of passion and time and bloodand sweat they have put into their own
product, whether it's a tool foran ar, whether it's a new optic,
whether it's a new site, howmuch time they have invested, and
we've mentioned it in a couple ofour shows. That's really cool to get
(24:15):
to talk to those people, forsure. And so that's the heart of
American entrepreneurship and ingenuity and it andit has been for you know, probably
at least as long as there hasbeen a thing called America, right,
you know, talk about some ofthose ingenuity and engineers. Have you had
(24:37):
the chance to tour the Daniel Defenseplant, Yes, sir, tell me
about that experience. Oh my gosh. Okay, So, first of all,
it's enormous. It's probably like thesize of a super Walmart. And
it you know, divided up intoareas. So one area is doing the
(25:00):
finishing of parts that come out ofthis another machine. They've got all these
really fancy CNC machines that are crankingout barrels or uppers or lowers. And
I think one of the things thatimpressed me most about Daniel Defense is the
(25:22):
attention, the quality control, andthe absolute lack of tolerance for a piece
that isn't perfect. So one ofthe things I noticed was there are these
bins around the machines, and you'vegot folks taking the stuff out of the
machines and measuring this and checking that, and there are these bins that are
just full of parts that they're thrownaway. Now, I'm sure their loss
(25:42):
rate is quite low because they havethese very fancy, expensive machines and they
really do their processes right. Soas a percentage, I'm sure the loss
rate is pretty low. But there'sjust no tolerance for anything that isn't perfect,
So they only have tolerance for thingsthat are within all the tolerances.
(26:03):
And it's a you know, I'mjust super impressed by that. And I
own, forget how many I'm Iown at least two Daniel Defense rifles and
a Daniel Defense suppressor, and Ithink I'm forgetting something else, but it's
just a it's a great American brand. I also had the chance to go
(26:23):
out to their range and shoot someof their stuff, including what was at
the time a brand new rifle it'sbeen out for a couple of years now,
which is their bolt action rifle.That's a gorgeous thing. They have
a new pistol that I don't haveyet but I really want to get.
And I got to shoot a coupleof their ars that had been modified to
(26:47):
be full auto fully legal because they'rethe gun company, and I didn't take
it anywhere. And boy, shootinga Daniel defense machine gun standing up,
not prone, not resting it onany ding is just one of the great
thrills in my life. Yeah.I was going to ask you if you
had heard about their new pistol thatthey have coming. I got the chance
(27:07):
to see it at chat show.It's it's something impressive. I hope I
can get my hands on one heresooner than later. Yeah. So I'm
not expert on this, but it'sit's based on a particular other pistol that
maybe they even bought the rights to. I could be getting this story all
wrong. And I don't remember thename. It's like Hudson or something.
I don't remember. But and andso they've got it's it's a very new
(27:30):
kind of pistol. I think it'sbeen out for less than a year.
And I want one too. Iwant one too. Yeah, And you
talk about Daniel stuff that there's stuff'sall quality. And I've enjoyed a lot
of their stuff because I think,I mean, I think a lot of
this is spend money on quality sothat your training or time on the range
(27:51):
is spent shooting and getting the bestamount of time doing the things you enjoy
versus trying to make something that yousaved a few bucks on work. Yeah,
I'll tell you this like half tonguein cheek. But there's one downside
to getting a firearm as good asa Daniel defense, and that is because
of what I was saying before abouttolerance. Is sometimes they won't work very
(28:17):
well with inexpensive or rather re remanufacturedammunition. So if you're gonna get a
really good gun, then you shouldexpect to treat it well by just using
new ammo and not remanufactured ammo andalso not you know, chunky, dirty
(28:37):
Russian ammo not all. Well,I don't buy any I don't buy any
Russian anything anymore. But back inthe day when it was still okay to
buy Russian stuff, there were someRussian AMMO products that were decent, but
most of them weren't. Really.If you're going to get a fine firearm,
you know, feed it, well, well, it's the same thing.
(29:02):
You wouldn't buy a Ferrari and youput this regular on let of gas
in it, would you. Iwould do whatever the manufacturer told me to
do with a car like that exactly. Hey, Ross, when you built
your own AR, did it kindof give you an appreciation for how all
those things finally come together? Yeah? I mean again, I go back
to what I said before. Itreally makes you marvel ars in particular shockingly
(29:29):
simple. There's not that many parts, and you can pretty easily learn how
to take it apart and put ittogether and build another one and replace something.
And if something isn't working right,you don't have to study all that
long to have a decent guess asto what isn't working right. And gosh,
it is just an incredible thing ofsomething that does that is so mechanically
(29:57):
simple. And yet you know,you could give me a billion dollars and
say design that, and I couldn't. And but it's a it's amazing,
absolutely amazing. Ross. I thinkwe'd be remiss if we didn't tell people
what color your AR that you builtwas. Oh, my AR is in
(30:19):
Denver, broncos colors. Parts ofit are blue, parts of it are
orange. And let's see the uhthe upper the upper is blue, the
handguard is orange. And I Ianodized it myself. That's this. Most
of the parts. I have asuper nerdy friend who went to School of
(30:40):
Minds, and and we anidized stufffor ourselves, so only one or two
of the parts came from the factoryin a color. Most of them I
got his raw aluminum and we anodizedthem ourselves, so yeah, blue and
orange. And then the suppressor,well, obviously the suppressor itself is neither
blue nor orange, but I boughta cover for this pressler that's blue.
So yeah, and so my goalis to go get John Elway to sign
(31:06):
it one day. Nice, that'dbe excellent. How long did it take
you put all that together? Well, I did it slowly because I didn't
want to make any mistakes, andI just did it when I had a
little bit of free time here andthere. So I probably got it done
over the course of a week anda half. But if you were just
(31:30):
talking about how many minutes actually sittingthere working on it, you know,
probably probably probably four hours because itwas my first one and I went real
slow. But if you were goodat this and you had done it a
few times, like you could definitelyan ar in under half an hour.
(31:52):
Yeah, I've seen I've seen competentgunsmiths who can do that. And I'm
talking every part from barrel to no, we're you know, and putting it
on just because they've done it somuch. And you're, like you said,
it really fits together really well,and once you know how it goes
together. I tell people all thetime when you talk about air fifteen's part
of the the thing about that gunis every part has a spring and a
(32:14):
detent somewhere behind it, right,which makes it almost impossible to put in
ron. Yeah, we have afriend who comes on Jason from a Blue
Angel concept and he likes to jokeand say, the Marines have been teaching
(32:36):
I'm gonna mess up the quote.The Marines have been teaching some of the
most dumb people to shoot this rifleup to five hundred yards forever. So
that's why it's so simplistic. That'sthat's a little bit mean to the Marines,
and I know they have a reputationfor chewing on crayons. He is
as your Navy Marines. I lovethe Marines. I grew up around Marines,
(33:02):
and uh, I got a sautpartin my heart for Marines, even
though I grew up in Navy brattRoss. I think we're coming close to
the end here, let me askyou this question, if you could do
if you were an Olympics gonna bean Olympic sport, which one would you
pick for shooting? Wow? Wow? Uh? Well, I don't know
(33:25):
that I know all of them.Why don't you tell me what all of
the Olympic shooting sports are that Iwould know all of them. But I
know there's the air pistols, theair rifles. Yeah, the sporting plays
and stuff like that. Well,isn't the isn't the biathlon the one where
you got to ski and then shootand then and then then shoot. Yeah,
that sounds awesome, doesn't it.It sounds exhausting. I think,
(33:50):
yeah, it does sound exhausting,but it sounds awesome. And I'll say
two other things. The guns,the custom guns they have for that sport
are some of the coolest looking firearmsI've ever seen in my life. And
I hope my wife's not looking.But pretty girls do that sport too,
So I think I think I likedthat one. I think I was watching
(34:15):
I think it is probably the biathlon, and me and my daughter were watching
it and they were shooting, andI told her, looked over her and
I said, for the price ofone of those guns, I could send
you to a college. And shekind of looked at it. She's really
young at the time, she didn'tquite understand. But yeah, there's there's
no expense spared in that stuff.And the amount of time those people take
to h to be that good.I mean, I have a friend who
(34:38):
was a I think it was anair crystal shooter, and he went to
the game. When were the gamesin Australia? Do you remember they were?
No, I don't know. Ican't remember how long ago it was,
but he said he finished, youknow, in the twenties. He's
like, I didn't meddle, butI still was the twenty sixth best shooter
in the world that day. SoI still think that's pretty cool. Just
(35:00):
making the Olympics is beyond amazing.You know what people always joke about,
how like the silver medal is thefirst loser, right, the silver medal
makes you second best in the world. It's something that thousands or maybe millions
of people do, and just gettingthere is something I can't imagine really well.
(35:22):
And the dedication that sacrifice those people. You know, we're fortunate we
live in Colorado, so we kindof get to experience a little bit with
the Olympic Training Center here. Justthe amount of dedication those people put to
you, because that's all they do. They go to sleep thinking about shooting.
They wake up thinking about shooting orjudo or whatever their sport is,
but that is all they do.Imagine being good enough at shooting that you
(35:45):
get sponsored for it, and someonepays your rent, and someone pays your
food, and someone buys you onehundred thousand dollars gun and all you got
to do is get up and goshoot. Now that is pretty amazing.
I just be happy if I couldget my Ammo sponsored, seeing now you
know, that's the most expensive partof my ship. I'll buy my own
guns, but the Ammo part isa is a big letdown. We've been
(36:08):
fortunate here too. We've got Igot some boxes, older boxes of Ammo
that still have the prices on them, you know. So a box of
a thousand twenty two and it waslike twelve bucks, and a box you
know it's in a box of ninemillimeter that was six bucks. Oh man,
(36:32):
it's it's funny you mentioned that this. That's the reason me and my
brother and my dad took us todo like trap and skeet and stuff was
because it was cheap and we coulddo it. We didn't have a whole
lot of money growing up, butyou know, you could spend twenty dollars
and spend the whole day at shootingtrap. Yeah, it's not that way
anymore, and that's unfortunate because it'snot it's not. Shotgun Ammo is relatively
(36:57):
cheap still, but the cost ofthe of the clays really adds up.
I mean, you know, youcould be talking about forty fifty cents a
shot for the clay, forty fiftycents a bird, and you know,
shotgun AMMO is relatively affordable compared towhat's happened with the prices. Like one
of my Daniel Defense guns, No. Two of them are three hundred blackout,
(37:21):
which is probably my favorite round toshoot, well because I love shooting
AK forty seven as well, andthree hundred blackout is kind of like the
US equivalent of the seven sixty twoby thirty nine, and and I love
shooting this stuff suppressed. And threehundred blackouts suppressed, which used to be
sixty cents, went to a dollartwenty and now it's back down to like
(37:44):
ninety cents, but it's still fiftypercent more and it just kind of pisses
me off to feel like I'm losingthe dollar every time I move my finger.
Yeah, you know, we we'vewe've had a couple of junior competitive
shooters and we've had jay Lee's Williamsfrom who as a pro shooter for cold
and they talk about, you know, especially when they're first starting up,
how much that cost, and thatthe first thing they want to get is
(38:07):
a sponsor for ammunitions because to bethat good and to be that good of
a shooter, the constant number ofrounds that it takes to send down range
is so expensive. And one ofthe moms that the junior shooter was talking
about, it's like, you know, knowing that we invested in this and
that every time he pulls the trigger, you know, it costs money.
Yeah. Yeah, well it's partof the reason I like shooting twenty two.
(38:30):
You know, it's a lot moreexpensive than it used to be,
but it's still pretty cheap for sure. All Right. Ross, So we're
coming up to the end here,and before we got some giveaways and and
I gotta pay awmache to our sponsors. Is there anything new out there that
you think you want to try andget a hold of. I can make
your dream of shooting a Browning highPower come true. I have one of
(38:51):
those that we can get together andyou can shoot. Is there anything else
that's new and you want to try? Well that Daniel Defense pistol problem Blake.
Yeah, if you get a holdof that, you need to give
me a text and we'll meet atthe same time. We can do a
swap. We can trade the Browninghigh Power for the h die from Daniels
and then and we'll make a lunchout of it. I'll tell you what.
(39:16):
Send me a link to this whenit's up, and we'll see what
my friends at Daniel Defense have tosay about it. You know it's funny
you said, we'll send it mylink to my friends at Daniels. I
started this podcast and I didn't Iknew this, but I didn't really know
it. How close this community is. Everyone's a friend, everyone knows someone,
(39:37):
everyone wants to share things with otherpeople. I think that's one of
the great thing that makes the shootingsports and the shooting industry probably unique in
its own couldn't agree more, reallyreally nice people involved in every shooting,
sport, every place, every time. You know, if you meet someone
(39:58):
in your chatting, it's a it'sa fun, warm conversation, something other
than our cell phones, for sure, That's right. Hey, Ross,
do you like giveaways? Love them? Especially when I win them? Your
best I'm not giveaways on my ownshow either. All right, I don't
(40:20):
win anything. I'm going to doa giveaway with the trivia question, and
if you know the answer, I'mgoing to ask you here, but don't
don't shout out the answer. Soin my hands, Oh yes, in
my hands, I have two magpollp mag seventeen's for the Block seventeen,
two brand new magazines. They willgo to the person who can answer this
(40:44):
trivia question the first person to emailme at three oh three Tactical Training at
gmail dot com. Again three ohthree Tactical Training at gmail dot com before
May. First, the trivia questionis this? In the movie Die Hard
Too, John McClain talks about acertain glock that the bad guys were armed
(41:07):
with that escapes metal detectors. Doyou know what model a glock? It
was the first person to email methat answer and make sure it's legal to
own in your location. We'll gettwo brand new magpol p maags. Do
you know the answer? Ross,I can picture I can picture it,
(41:27):
but I don't know. I don'tknow the answer. Nope. It is
a completely made up gun, madeup for that movie. It doesn't exist.
Yeah, I want the model thatJohn McClain. That's pretty cool.
That's pretty cool, you know.Just I know we're about done, but
I'll just mention one other super funthing that I had the chance to shoot.
I have a friend who is nowretired from law enforcement, but he
(41:52):
had and I'm going to get themodel number wrong, but he had the
glock pistol that's full auto. Youknow. I'm I was a sixteen or
an eighteen or I want to sayit in eighteen, but yeah, and
I got to shoot that. Soit's nine millimeter full auto and you could
(42:13):
put an extended clock mag intoto itand just and fire off twenty or thirty.
That was unbelievable. But boy,the first time this thing was really
riding up on me. Uh,and then I got it under control.
It was actually kind of sort ofalmost accurate with it. But that was
really fun. Yeah, it's theglock eighteen and I'll do you one better.
(42:35):
I may have been in a trainingclass where the uh range had a
couple of those, and it happenedto be on the third of July,
and we happened to be able tohelp experience those on third of July during
a training class. They're You're right, they're a good time once you could
control it. So yeah, ourtrivia question, make sure you email me
up on that. Before I getout of here. I need to say
(42:58):
thanks to Mile High Shooting where he'sup in Frederick, Colorado. They're great
supporters of the three or three Tacticalpodcast. You can find them up at
Frederick, Colorado or anytime at milehigh shooting dot com. Whether it's your
first gun or you want to builda world champion winning gun, Mile High
Shooting is a place for you.So Ross, thanks for your time.
Give everyone. Let everyone know wherethey can find you again. You can
(43:22):
find me over the airwaves at eightpoint fifty AM or ninety four point one
FM on KOA Radio in Denver,on the iHeartRadio app KOA on your smart
speaker you tell it to play KOAon iHeartRadio, or you can actually listen
on a computer as well. Butlots of places to find me, and
(43:45):
I hope you hope everyone checks meout nine am to noon mountain time,
weekdays. All right, everybody,and thanks thanks for Ross for coming on
the three or three Tactical podcast,and we'll talk to you next time.
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