Ep. 1 | How I found my spouse without a cell phone

Episode 1
Alden Olmsted
Donald J. Johnson

Welcome to The 5 Great Questions podcast, where I ask people interesting questions, and you get to hear their answers.

My first guest on my first episode is longtime friend and film collaborator Donald J. Johnson. Don is an author and filmmaker and devoted family road tripper, and has a great answer to the question "How did you meet your spouse without a cell phone."

I introduce the podcast and welcome Don, and he shares a recent anecdote from a trip to the upper Midwest to set up his story. Following his great story we both wax about the differences between reality and life online, the dangerous nature of technology and what we've unleashed, and share our opinions about how to keep healthy risk alive in a digital age.

Like to be on a future episode? Let me know at: [e-mail]

Links:
aldenolmsted.com
Stories and blogs on Medium:
https://alden-olmsted.medium.com/

Donald J. Johnson and Runaway Planet Pictures:
https://runawayplanetpictures.vhx.tv/

Episode Transcript

(00:02):
She actually talked, get out ofhere. Oh yeah, I've really gotten
into the bad habit of asking ahuge amount of questions. A little bit
just a question between friends. Youknow, if you go one of those
cappuccino places, they let you justsit there. What are we going to

(00:23):
do there? Talk? We cantalk. I'll go if I don't have
to talk. She actually talked tothe man. We're always filming? O,
right, is that we're always filming? Well, welcome to episode number
one I guess of my apparently brandnew five Great Questions podcast, which I

(00:50):
have no idea will be you know, one episode or twenty nine or more.
At this point I have much morethan many more than five Questions,
but I still love the title,and I want to honor my first instinct
from years ago of thinking of thisidea to get basically to get people to

(01:10):
think with questions, using questions thatthey don't normally hear. I believe most
of us get asked questions like,you know, when will you be home?
Did you pick up the groceries,did you turn did you send that
email in? These are all questions, but they're not They're necessary, but
they're not very exciting. And Ifind as I go through life, I

(01:34):
find that most people don't get askedinteresting questions about themselves very often, and
so that's the purpose of this podcast, and I'm hoping that you will help.
If you are listening, you heartoday's episode, you think, well,
I have a great question or agreat answer to a question, then

(01:55):
you'll be able to email me.It's in the notes my emails already there,
and I would love to hear yourresponse and we'll go from there.
So without further ado, welcome toepisode one, and please welcome my guest,
a longtime friend and film collaborator,Don Johnson. Hey Alden Well,

(02:16):
who Yeah, great to be here. Thank you. How does today find
you? You know I am doingall right. I've just been contemplating the
question you sent me here just briefly. And first of all, congratulations,
great topic, great show. I'mexcited to hear all the rest of them.

(02:37):
But I also find it fascinating.I've been thinking about this topic a
little bit more than I This isgoing to sound weird, but I've been
thinking about it more than I hadrealized I had been thinking about it actually,
and that'll make sense in a minute. When you give me my question.
Okay, yeah, well we've gota lot of rain here in northern
California, but I'm in an enclosed, secret location now that's seen to be

(03:00):
doing pretty well. So the restof the country is, you know,
rescheduling playoff football games and figuring outwhere Taylor Swift is sitting but versus the
players on the field. But youand I are gonna hopefully have a good
discussion here and are enclosed bunkers exactly. So as with every episode, what

(03:21):
I hope to do is sends youas I did, as you received about
twenty minutes ago, five great questions. And the best part is it's up
to you. I don't mind whichquestion you think you have the best answer
for or the best story. AndI think that's hopefully that's where I'm going
to focus, is which of thefive questions I emailed to you, which

(03:44):
question instantly sparks inside your mind andyour memory the best story and not just
the best answer that you think isright or wrong, or the rightest answer,
but the best story. So that'swhat we're going to go. Have
you you received your questions, DonJohnson, I got them, Thank you
very much, and I have mademy decision answer. Yeah, yeah,

(04:11):
I want to talk about the cellphone question. So maybe do you want
to phrase it in a particular way. Sure, let me read. So
one of the questions I send yousent you was how did you meet your
spouse without a cell phone? Yeah? Ok, yeah, so that is
an important story in my life,you know, possibly mean, it's one

(04:32):
of the most important. But letme preface it with the whole cell phone
thing, because this week I havebeen thinking a lot about about the role
that cell phones now play and acouple of things. Really a little tripp
did. I did a quick tripto the Upper Midwest last weekend. Okay,

(04:55):
So I was in Chicago and Detroit. You know, flew on on
Thursday, flew home on Sunday.So, I mean, this is a
quick trip, and I drove betweenthe two cities. So I drove.
I flew into Chicago, did athing there, did some filming drunk in
my rental car, drove to Detroit, did some filming there, and then
flew home. And what struck meabout the whole thing, I mean,

(05:18):
there is a certain I admit,there's a certain grayness to the to the
Upper Midwest that I'm not in thewinter in the winter that I'm just I'm
not a fan of and I grewup in the Midwest, so I get
it. But but I'm not.I mean, I've been to Chicago Detroit
before. It's not like I'm unfamiliarwith the cities. But it really struck

(05:39):
me on this trip that if Idid it all on my phone, I
realized as I flew out that Icould have done the whole trip and not
realized where I was at all,Like it could have been anywhere in America.
Right. I get out and it'sa nondescript airport, and you follow

(06:00):
your phone to where the rental caris, and you get in your car,
and I follow my phone to wheremy hotel is, which looks just
like every other hotel in the country. I sleep, I get in my
car, I drive in the morningto a house that looks like every other
house in the world. I mean, that's not exactly true. I mean,
it wasn't cool. But and Iwent away from me thinking I could

(06:23):
have done that whole trip, goto two major American cities, and if
you hadn't told me where I was, there was nothing because of the phone.
I didn't need to learn anything aboutit. You know, I didn't
need to know anything particular. Ijust followed my phone along the highways to
stop stop there, got out,followed my phone again. And it was

(06:46):
really different than how we used totravel, right, Like you had to
know places, you had to lookat a map, you had to and
you and I have traveled a lotaround the country and we do traveling a
little bit different. Obviously, thatwas a little bit of a different trip.
And if you don't, but thephone has made traveling just this weird
thing. I think, Okay,that's my first thing. I mean,

(07:08):
add on to that if you want, but I that was my first Well,
I just think it's it's interesting thatnow you can even choose your voice.
So if you're if the phone istelling you where to go, you
could they theoretically choose an I'm surethere's an app for this. You could
choose a Midwestern voice to direct you, yeah, you know, or if
you were in you know, anAustralian voice. Exactly. So as my

(07:32):
one of my friends has a realgreat, great quote a few years ago
he said, he said that thesummary of the Internet is, before there
was the Internet, you basically hadto know a guy that's right. You
had to Yeah, and you hadto interact with people. Yeah. I
could have done this whole trip reallywithout interacting with people. In fact,

(07:56):
the one you know, how thesetrips go, there's always little roadblocks,
there's always little little things that gowrong. And you and I have had
some weird experiences that rental car.Uh, and the same thing happened again.
Okay, same thing happened again.I got to my rental car.

(08:16):
This again. I don't and I'mnot a luddite, Okay, I just
this has just been thinking about I'mgoing to get to my relationship story here
in a second. But something went, something was wrong with the card and
I and it wasn't letting me rentmy car. And I go online,
you know, and I look,I pull up my app, okay,
and it says, yeah, there'splenty of credit there. Okay, there

(08:39):
should be no problem. What's whileyou're and this is while you're standing in
line, I mean with the pressureand you're already on a tight tam line.
Yeah right, Thankfully there wasn't ahuge line behind me. But and
the person anyway, the car's notworking, and I, I, you
know, I know what to dobecause I know if I phone that number,

(09:03):
it's not going to be helpful.So I'm trying all of the tech
things first, right, all ofthe different i'd try different apps, I
go online, try it anyway.Finally it's not I'm thinking, all right,
I guess I'm going to have tophone the number. Well, you
know how that went. I phonedthe number and I talked to the person.
Actually finally got a live person.And it turns out it's very clear

(09:24):
what had happened that there had beena flip in one of my one of
my accounts somewhere where that the routingnumber on a payment had been flipped with
the account number, you know whatI'm talking about, Like it just you
can see. Yeah, it's veryobvious that this is what happened. It
didn't really affect anything in the realworld, except that the algorithm had caught

(09:46):
it at some point, right,like it had caught it, and it
had frozen my account because those twoand I'm so I'm looking at it.
I'm like, well, you cansee right right, ma'am. You can
see what happened. You can seethat the account numbers just got flipped right
there. And she said, yeah, I do see that. I said,
well, let's just flip that aroundagain, right or something. Let's

(10:09):
no, no, I can't dothat. Well, why can't you do
it? Well, because it's inthe it's in the system. Now the
computers have completely locked you. Andthere's literally nothing I can do. Once
the computers lock you out, lockyou out. She said, you're going
to have to wait several days.I mean, if you couldn't have if
you were writing this script, youcouldn't have written it any better. As

(10:31):
how do we get this guy?And I so I explained the situation.
I said, I am currently,you know, eighteen hundred miles away from
Halleen on a business trip, needingmy car. Okay, that's that's my
my human situation here. And ifyou if we could just flip those numbers
or cancel that whatever that is altogether, just exit out, we'd all go

(10:54):
on our merry way life. Coulddo you understand I'm stranded in this foreign
you know, in this town.Well, nothing I can do, sir,
nothing, absolutely nothing I can dobecause the computers have locked you out.
And I'm not going to tell youthe rest of the story on air
Alden because it's it's a typical Donand Alden's story how it turned out,
and it's not for public consumption,but I will share off the air.

(11:20):
It all worked out in the end, but it required some human ingenuity.
Okay, So that was my firststory. The second story is a young
adult that I know, friend ofa kid of a friend of ours.
Let's put it that way. Youknow, I'm fifty something, so we
have If I'm talking about young adults, it's either my high school kids or

(11:43):
people that I've been pastoring, orkids friends of kids. Right. I
hear the story that the young manhas a girlfriend. Oh my god,
I didn't know that, Okay,And the guy's sharing friend of mine is
sharing, and he kind of hadthis looking is. I like, I'm
like, oh, you don't youdon't like her. She's like, well,

(12:03):
no, that's not it. He'slike, that's not it. It's
not it's not that we don't likeher. And I'm not sure we've ever
met her. And then he washere was the rest of the thing.
It's like, I'm not sure myson has really met her either. And
here's the thing. I mean,I think at one point years ago they
had actually met. But the wholeboyfriend girlfriend. Thing has happened completely over

(12:28):
texting and over online interaction. Okay. The guy lives in the southeast.
She lives in the Pacific Northwest,and this relationship has been completely cyber Okay,
And so my friend and I areboth like, okay, you know,

(12:48):
like, how how does that work? And I'll tell you. I
mean I do. I work witha high school teacher, right like I
work with young adults. The phone, and this is one of the reasons
I picked this story. The phonehas absolutely transformed the way people relate with
each other and what they understand relationshipsto be, and not in a good

(13:09):
way. Okay, Now I understandthat. I understand that it's something like
eighty percent of people who get marriednow now meet online. I mean,
it's a crazy stat. It's acrazy high stat. But and I get
it. So I understand that relationshiplike that is the world we live in.
But I do really think we havewe have lost something and it has
changed the way that people that peopleinteract and and you know, my stories

(13:35):
as I'll share here whenever, ifyou want me to start, is one
indication of the different how we howwe used to do it differently, right,
how we used to do it different. Yeah, I think it's a
it's a I think it's a reminderon the low end of the you know,
action spectrum. On the low end, it's if you are an adult
with any with any interaction with teenagersright now, just get them to meet

(13:56):
up in person. I mean,if you can, if you can impact
that in any way, even ifyour group of kids is just your kids
and their friends, if you arean adult listening right now and you want
to know how to change the world, I'm being serious. Whatever teenagers,
you know, give them time together. They It may not change the world

(14:18):
right now, but it will.It will change their world for the better,
and it may be all you cando. No, it's it's our
school. We all we know theyall have phones, but we're very strong
about no phone usage while you're oncampus. Okay, you have to go
to a special spot on campus ifyou're going to have your phone out.

(14:39):
And what's fascinating is even you know, it's not a huge school, but
I love to watch the at lunchtimewhen everybody's together and none of them can
be on phones, how they interactwith each other and it takes it.
Admittedly, if you can see thenew kids when they come in, how
difficult that is for them? Alot them. Yeah, just to have

(15:01):
social interaction. I get it,your new school, I get it.
But in general kids have a hardtime now socially interacting. But once they
do, I mean, it's areally an amazing thing. So that's great
advice all and it's great and eyeopener. Yeah. It's funny when when
I was growing up, well I'mgoing to sound like an old timer,
but there was a smoking section athigh school. Yeah right, not a

(15:22):
phone section. There was a youwould go across this white line and if
you were you know, over Idon't know, sixteen or eighteen, I
can't remember what it was you couldsmoke outside of And now we've got a
phone section. So hopefully hopefully itgoes that direction, right, Like hopefully,
so we're but at the very beginningwe're admitting that it's as addicting.

(15:45):
Yeah, that's what I'm saying.Like, hopefully, you know, in
ten twenty years, we'll look backon this era and say, wow,
we really I can't believe we letthose kids have those phones and have social
media. I mean, what adisaster that was. And you know,
maybe in our own little I don'tknow any other schools. I know schools
try to limit phones, but it'salmost impossible. I actually don't know any

(16:08):
other schools other than ours that dothat. So yeah, Jonathan Hate He's
got an unfortunate sounding last name,but it's Hai dt hate it whatever.
He's got a good, little,small grassroots movement trying to get phone you
know, schools to adopt a zerozero policy when it comes to phones,

(16:29):
so I think. But regardless,I do believe you have a great story.
So let's hear about and you canset it up a little bit if
you want. Yeah, okay,I mean, I'll give a little bit
of context. So, yeah,I've been married twenty six years now,
I think a little over twenty sixyears. And I originally met my wife

(16:51):
when she was a lifeguard at acamp that, in fact, you and
I both worked at. I don'tknow, did you work at that that
summer? I think maybe you wewere there the summer that Kendrick came.
Yeah, you must have been there. Yeah. Yeah. And so I'm
working as a I can't even rememberwhat I was working at, head counselor
or something there. I worked forseveral years at the camp, and I

(17:15):
thought she was cute, but youknow, she was young, honest honestly,
she was like eighteen at the timeand I was a little bit older,
and so we didn't have a relationship. But we became friends, you
know, over the summer. Andat the time, I wouldn't have been
able to tell you this whole storythat I'm going to tell you. Looking
back though, like I wouldn't havebeen able to frame it in this way.

(17:37):
But now you know, twenty sixyears later, I look back and
I say, what an amazing groupof I would call them providential happenings that
required that that only would have workedwithout phones, I think, in order
for the rest of the story tohappen. So we were friends, and

(18:00):
I was on my way after camp. We all went back to our separate
ways, and she was from Oregon. I was living in California at the
time, but I grew up inCanada, and I had to make a
quick trip back to Canada to takemy car that I had been driving,
which was a Canadian car, backto Canada and drop it off. That's

(18:21):
another great analog story for another time. Probably with customs, yeah, right,
like like dealing just with things likepaperwork the way we used to do
it, you know. And thereason, like the reason I had to
go back to Canada is because Igot stopped by a police officer who and

(18:44):
I had Canadian plates on it,and all there was stuff that would not
happen today like you would just Iwould know whether or not my car could
be driven in the US now,and you know everything is online. Yeah,
anyway, I had to drive backto Canada very quickly, make a
quick trip back, drop my caroff, try to figure out a way
back home. And so I'm onmy way out of campus and as I'm

(19:07):
literally probably twenty yards from the leavingcamp when the camp director jumps out of
the little nurses station that we hadthere at the bottom of the camp we
were working at, jumps out,grabs me as I'm driving by, you
know, says hey bye, we'llsee in a little bit. I was
going to see her again. She'slike, oh, but Kendra, you

(19:30):
know, the nerd, the lifeguardthat's here. She needs a ride back
to Pleasanton. We were in theBay Area. Would you mind taking her
and dropping her off at her auntand uncle's house in Pleasanton. I'm like,
absolutely, not a problem. Right, So this is what I do
again. This is something that today, I mean, maybe that happens,

(19:51):
but yeah, this is the factshe jumped out. You know, everything
had to be She didn't text,she didn't call, she didn't do a
group a group chat to figure outwho can take Kendra. She saw me.
We interacted physically, right, likeface to face. Yeah I didn't
and I never heard this because Iwas probably already gone. The whole camp

(20:12):
was gone, right, yeah,yeah, I think we were close to
shutting the whole thing down for thesummer. And so this was I don't
know, what is it about,maybe an hour drive something like that from
the camp to Pleasanton. So Kendrajumps in and we have a very nice
time, you know, visiting interactingface to face as one does when you're

(20:36):
in the presence of someone and it'sjust the two of you. And we
had never really done that. It'snot like, I mean, we had
chatted, but we'd never really donethat before. And so this hour long
drive where again face to face interaction. We I really enjoyed it. Yeah,
I mean I didn't think that muchof it, but I really enjoyed
it. And I did tell her, Hey, I'm coming back down to

(21:00):
California from Canada. And I understandyou live in Oregon, Eugene, Oregon.
You know what, I'll I'll stopby and say hi if you want
that. Would you know that myway down? Dropping the bread crumbs,
Yeah, drop them the dating?You know what dating breadcrumbs. You could
probably start a little book about.Yeah. And I honestly don't. Thinking

(21:21):
back again, I don't think Ihad that much in my mind other than
it was a nice thing to say. I was coming back down that way.
I knew I was going to drivethrough Eugene, and so I said,
hey, why why don't I I'llstop by if I get a chance,
So drop her off, I headoff to Canada. There was a

(21:41):
bunch of other It was a itwas a bit of a road trip coming
back. There was it was planes, trains, and automobiles. Actually it
was planes, ferries and automobiles comingback to Eugene. And I don't mean,
I don't know how much detail wewant to get into, but well,
I wasn't going to tease you.I was gonna tease you when you
said a quick trip back to Canada. That's number one. Let's just let's

(22:03):
just dismiss with that word right there. Yeah, well true, fair enough.
We used to be able to doit. We used to do San
diego back to my farm in twentyfour hours if both of us drove,
and we did that several times.This was a little bit different than that.
But it's about maybe twenty two Ithink. So anyway, I went

(22:26):
and dropped my car off and onthe way back, I actually picked up
a friend's car, and it was, you know, another time when we
might want to talk about like providentialinstances that affected your life, like two
or big you know. I know, actually I was almost tempted to give
you the big decisions question, yeah, because it wasn't so much a big

(22:48):
decision. And I do think that'sa little bit of a different question.
But there are points in life,and I don't know folks on too much
here, but there are points inlife where I look back and I say,
wow, if I had if Ihad missed that by just two minutes
or thirty seconds, this whole storyis different, right, And I think
of that. You know, ourfriend Heather, the camp director, coming

(23:08):
out and saying, hey, canyou drive Kendra to her aunt and uncle's
house, Like if she pops outof there ten seconds later. I'm already
passed, you know, like shesaw me coming. And this whole story
is a lot different. And maybeshe has to drive Kendra or whatever.
Something. It's just something's different.I just I just don't the rest of
the story goes differently. And therewas several of these on that trip because

(23:32):
I was supposed to meet another friendwho was lending me her car up in
Washington State, and in order toget to this friend who was lending me
her car, I had to flya one way trip into Victoria and then
find a way to get down tothe ferry station. I had never been
to Victoria, and I didn't.Again, you're not like these are days
when you're not following your phone.You don't have a phone, right,

(23:55):
You're just figuring it out real quick. So when you when you went back
to Canada, you had to aband than your car. I mean you
had to leave your car at home. You care no longer could use your
car in California. Yeah, Ileft it then, I had I had
a friend of mine ended up sellingit. He put it on the auto
trader or something, and yeah,that's how. But yeah, so I
didn't have a car, and Idon't know this was you're looking back at

(24:19):
I know what you're doing right now. You're looking back at your choices,
and you have teenagers in the household. That's what you're thinking. Well,
now, what's interesting. You knowyou talk about pre analog days, and
again, I don't want to gettoo far afield, but and maybe it
was my personality too, where Iwas more inclined to just like, yeah,
we'll figure it out. We'll figureit out when we get there,

(24:40):
we'll figure out things when I don'tsee a lot of kids doing that these
days. And I do think theway you can hyper trust technology to do
stuff for you now is part ofthat issue. Like you know, I
didn't when I'm when I'm in ChicagoDetroit, I don't have to figure it
out. I just plugged my myphone tells me what to do. Okay.

(25:02):
This was not like that in thosedays. I not only did I
not know how to get anywhere,I didn't know what I was going to
you know, how it was allgoing to work out where I was going
to live and drive when I gotthere. There was a lot of that
stuff going anyway. I had toget over to Bremerton, Washington, and
you have to take a ferry.And I remember that after I figured out,
And I actually don't remember how Igot from the airport to the ferry.

(25:23):
Maybe I took a cab. Iactually don't remember, but I do
recall that I was within about aminute of missing that ferry once I got
there, the last ferry of theday. Yep. But I got on
it. Okay, I got onit. And I got on the ferry
and it took me across over toBremerton. And I'm not sure how my

(25:45):
friend, I don't know. Wemust have used payphones at some point maybe
or planned it ahead. I can'tremember how, like pre cell phone days,
like how my friend found me atthe ferry, but she did and
picked me up and lent me hercar, and then I headed south.
This was all in one day,by the way, right, This is
all in one day. So Itook off from Canada Edmonton, flew into

(26:07):
Victoria, grabbed a ferry, grabbedmy friend's car, and started driving south
because I had to be in school, you know, by that Monday,
and so I had to get downto Santa This it's a bay area.
I was living in at the time. So so I head south and it's
getting so it's now it's getting prettylate in the day, and you head
south from Bremerton. This is allthe same day. Edmonton in the morning.

(26:30):
Yes, that's correct, that's correct. Flew out in the morning,
caught the ferry, got the car. Now I'm driving south and I remember
I stopped at a payphone because Ihad told Kendra and I and again I
wasn't thinking romantically. I was justthinking, like, oh, I don't

(26:52):
want to be seen as a liar. I don't want to I don't want
her to think that I wasn't tellingher the truth when I told her that
I would swing by. But nowit's like eight o'clock at night, and
I'm you know, in Portland,you know, like I'm not even close.
I'm not close. I was probablymaybe I called her from Portland.
I wonder some were somewhere in thatarea. Maybe yeah, right, and

(27:12):
that probably are in there. AndI thought, oh, you know what,
I'm just going to call her justso she doesn't think that I'm a
liar. And I kept my word. And I assume that she'll say it's
too late, you know, night, It's okay. Because I'm going to
keep driving. I'm in Portland ateight o'clock at night. I'm going to
keep driving, probably sleep on theside of the road somewhere. But so

(27:33):
I call I. But so Istop at a payphone. I call her
house, and she says, oh, well, you know, why don't
you stop. I said, well, it's going to be ten ten thirty
at night when I get to Eugene. Oh yeah, it's okay, she
says, And really I found outlater in her family that was absolutely not
okay. All right, this wasnot okay. This was highly unusual,

(27:56):
okay to have some guy she metat camp out, you know, stop
by at ten ten thirty at nightto say hello as he's driving through town.
So so I do recall, though, I do recall because her house
was not easy to find in Eugene. But she gave me directions, and

(28:18):
I recall writing them down on thenapkin in the payphone, and you know,
And I got to Eugene, andI had never really driven. Eugene's
not an easy town. Actually,there's a lot of weird, weird roads.
And I had to stop again.I think I had to stop again.
Once I got there. I gotsomewhat close to her house, and
I had to stop again, saying, here's where I am. Am I

(28:40):
close. She's like, oh,yeah, you're almost there. Keep going.
And I got there and we wentout. We went out to Allen
Brothers coffee at like ten thirty atnight, you know, and I can't
I'm to this day. I mean, her dad must have been thinking,
what the heck is going on here? But we did. So. The
other part of that story is Kendrawas scheduled to go to Oregon State University.

(29:04):
She was going to be a freshmanthat year. I was I was
going to a school in San Jose. She did not really want to go
to a She didn't really want togo to Oregon State. It was just
sort of a default for where.And so I knew I was going to
a small Christian school, and Iknew that it's not exactly hard to get
into. If you've got any gradesat all, right, you can get

(29:26):
into this school, and they canif you're willing to pay, they'll let
you in. And so, butit's a great school. I haven't,
you know, I have nothing badto say. I was going to this
little Christian Bible school in San Jose, that's no longer there. It's now
a big university elsewhere. But itso I said, well, why don't
you check that out? Maybe youshould come down to San Jose and go
to school. This was like aThursday night, by the way, Okay,

(29:48):
this is yes, end of summer, Thursday night. School starts Monday.
Oh my gosh, Okay, thisis why I'm driving back. I
don't have time. I got toget home. I got to figure out.
I don't even know if I knewwhere I was living next. It
was a weird time. I mighthave been living at the camp. I
think maybe maybe I bet I was. I was staying at the camp,
that's right. So we had avery nice time though, you know,

(30:10):
like this is the coffee you know, hour, hour and a half chatting
in the coffee shop. I godrop her at home. I say,
hey, you know, check outthe school. Honestly, I mean I
didn't think that much about it,and I took off. Her parents have
asked me about that to this,like where did you go that night?
I'm like, I slept on theroad somewhere at them. That's what we
did. I just kept driving.Yeah, we just kept driving until you

(30:32):
got too tired. I probably Ihad some coffee at like eleven, So
probably I napped at like three inthe morning or something, or four in
the morning, don't by Shasta orsomething. So then though, Monday morning,
I show up for school, andwho do you think is there in
the parking lot signing up already signedup for classes? Kendra had They had

(30:56):
called the next day, They hadcalled San Jose the next day, they
had signed up. Her dad had, you know, paid the tuition to
get her in there for Monday.She had. I believe she had jumped
on a bus. If I'm notmistaken, I don't quote me. I
think she grabbed a bus on Sunday, went down to her aunt and uncle's
house where I dropped her off originallya big circle. I dropped her off

(31:21):
originally, And there she was atcollege on Monday morning for that year.
And now, how did you bumpinto her that morning? I mean Ima
school, Yeah, totally, youbumped at her. Everybody knew everybody,
you know, and there she was, and of course I was one of
the few people she knew at theat the college. And so yeah,
I mean I think I don't knowwe so we were friends. I mean

(31:42):
I think we started dating maybe laterthat, like maybe the spring. Actually
did you both go on to graduatefrom that college? So I graduated.
She was there for two years andI graduated, and then that same year,
the year that I graduated, wegot married. So yeah, that

(32:06):
too. You know, again that'ssomething that people would would probably do,
but we we. And again I'mnot necessarily recommending my life path, but
but the but the analog version ofit, just to just to go back
like how it was before cell phones, I just think that that that story.

(32:27):
So oh, let me finish thestory. So we got we got
married. Two years later, Itransferred to graduate school actually up in Portland,
and then she transferred to uh finishher undergrad up in Portland, and
so she graduated from a school inOregon, and then we went back to
California after that, after she hadgraduated in Oregon, we came back.
And so now we're so long timeso cal people with a few little you

(32:52):
know, trips here and there.But yeah, like I said, twenty
six, so that's twenty six yearsago. But I look back and I
think that's there's no way that storyhappens that way if we have cell phones,
right, because I wouldn't have toldher. Honestly, I wouldn't have
said I'll hey, I'm driving backdown and i'd stop and say hello,

(33:15):
right, because you would just betexting. If you like the guy,
if you like the girl, you'rejust texting. Yeah, at the very
least, at the very least,if we just allow the phone to enter
into the story at a couple moments, at the very least, you would
have texted, you know, whileyou're on the ferry or at the airport
and said, hey, I mightbe passing through Eugene, you know,

(33:37):
at nine or ten at night,and her text back would probably be,
well, my parents won't allow thator what. Yeah, I mean,
I don't know. But but ifsome things are we have to overly plan.
They they fall apart, they don'twork. Yeah, I think I
just don't. I don't know thatI would have I mean, not to

(33:59):
get you know, to guess toomuch right about how history would have been
reinvented. But I think the wholestory would have been different in a digital
age, right, like you wouldn'tmaybe maybe I drive her and drop her

(34:20):
maybe yeah, And if for friendstoday, I just think you keep texting
then. But I actually probably wouldn't. I mean, I probably wouldn't text
today because well, I don't know. I just think in those like I
was, you know, because Iwas kind of older, I'm like mid

(34:43):
twenties, it would see maybe bea little bit. I don't know,
I'm not sure, but if wedid have interest, there would definitely just
be more of an ongoing texting relationshiprather than me going out of my way
and stopping like I just don't Idon't think that we would value the chance

(35:08):
to go face to face have coffeewith someone well and the real bummer.
And unfortunately, the pandemic just gaveeverybody the license to do this. I
hope not forever, but for theI think for a whole generation. One
thing that texting does is it givesyou the opportunity for positives and negatives.
So you can say, hey,I'm running ten minutes late. If you're

(35:30):
waiting for someone at the movie theater, you can say, and this would
have saved I've got stories about youknow, people waiting outside the theater when
there was a big group inside.Oh I know you were inside. Okay,
So there's positives, but the negativeis that I've noticed an insane amount
of people, an insane amount oftimes where the just the fact that the

(35:52):
text is there, sitting on thephone provides an opportunity for someone to second
guess the event or the meeting orthe coffee or whatever and so, and
unfortunately the pandemic gave everyone well I'vegot a slight cough, Okay, well
then we're just you know, Ican't go. But there's so many plans
that have been people just say nonow at the last minute when that wasn't

(36:15):
a possibility for her or for you. I mean, and let me add
another thing on there. Without thetexting, you don't have the ability to
do all of the weird relational interactionthat happens via text that's often very negative.

(36:37):
Just I mean sort of just goingto add what you say, but
just relational wise, right, arelation, a texting relationship is different than
a face to face relationship, likewell, to give a more extreme example,
like people who post things on Twitterx or whatever it is now right,

(36:57):
they say things differently then they doface to face. In fact,
I knew I knew a sports reporterwho would just he would Back in the
early days of online forums and stuff, when people would. I didn't know
him personally, but I knew thatthis guy would do this. People would
post bad things about him, andhe would figure out their phone number and

(37:20):
give him a call and ask them, like, right a voice, just
ask him what were you talking aboutthere? And inevitably, like ninety nine
percent of the time, they're like, oh, dude, I'm sorry.
I mean I didn't mean anything byit. I wouldn't, you know.
I mean, if I we weretalking face to face, we'd have a
beer or whatever. I mean,I'm just posting crap, you know,
Like I'm not that kind of youknow. It's a different thing and texting.
I did this the other day.I was texting somebody that I don't

(37:44):
text that often and we kind ofknow each other but not that much,
and I was really struggling with howit was going to be received, Like
do I put an exclamation point there? I don't know how do how do
I phrase the sentence? Like,I'm not sure how. I don't want
you to think I'm weird, butI'm not. I'm literally not sure how
to like it's just too stuffy andit's just such a weird thing, right,

(38:08):
And I do think relationships get tweakedthat way where if it's only texting
all the time, that's not that'snot you. And so for Kendra and
I because we were didn't have theability to text, right, isn't that
interesting? Like I drove with her, I hung out with her working,
which was which was huge, bythe way, I mean, which was

(38:30):
huge, Like to actually see herlifeguard, it was absolutely I can I
can envision very clearly the first timeI thought, Wow, that's an attractive
woman. And it wasn't the wayshe looked. It was how she was
interacting with the little kids. Yeah, okay, it's it was she Oh,
she's awesome with kids. And bythe way, boys and girls,

(38:52):
that is the number one trait youwant in a mate. Okay, how
are they with kids? Absolutely themost tract of the most important thing.
You're like, are you a goodparent? And that was very like And
I didn't, you know, Iwasn't thinking philosophically about that, but I,
man, she's really good with kids. And she was cute of course
too, which is not a badthing. But I absolutely remember the first

(39:13):
thing I was attracted to was howgreat she was her kids, And so
I see that, how are yougoing to see that over texting. You're
not going to see that over texting, right, And then we spend time
together and we're chatting and it's faceto face and being in person. I
mean, hopefully the pandemic taught taughtus all that too, that being in
the physical presence of somebody is incrediblyimportant and for teaching, for interaction,

(39:34):
for parenting, like, you can'tdo it online, forget about it,
Okay, it's not going to happen. And so then we have the physical
interaction. Then I talked to hera few times on the phone, which
again is very different than texting,much better, I would say, And
I'm a guy who doesn't I don'ttalk to people on the phone anymore.
But really, if I'm being honest, absolutely is better than texting, right,

(40:00):
absolutely. And then we go andhave coffee, and then we get
to spend time together at school asstudents, and again we're not it's not
And that's nice too, by theway, just as something else that that
kids are bereft of is having abreak from people. So we'd meet at
school, right, maybe we'd goout for taco bell or something after.

(40:23):
I don't know. That's about whatI was we weren't going anywhere else.
Actually, I know where we wouldgo. We'd go to mister Chang's Chinese
fast food back in the day,that's exactly and absolutely and so but that
was it. But then you'd youknow, drop her at the dorm and
I'd go back to live at campand we'd talk again tomorrow. That's actually

(40:46):
kind of nice, right in inearly stages of the relationship where I don't
have to be like, oh,she hasn't texted me for an hour,
or she didn't say did you gethome safely or any of that stuff.
Okay, I know. I meanfor kids today, the social media stuff
and the ability to there're one hundredpercent always available to everybody else, and

(41:07):
they're always that pressure of always beingavailable, like oh, she wants to
FaceTime and he's texting and he didn'treturn my text and your tone. It's
very it's very pressure inducing to thesekids, and that just really hurts.
I think relationships so pre analogue.Now we're all of our growing, all
of our learning is face to face, right, and that's incredibly helpful for

(41:30):
when so you're not completely you know, like can you imagine move in in
with somebody and I listen, don'tmove in with somebody and think that's good,
but after you have really only interactedvia text online and then suddenly you're
living with this person, and thenwondering why, yeah, are you crazy?

(41:51):
Yeah, exactly why are you crazy? Well, you don't know the
person, like the texting person isnot the same person, right, So
yeah, I just think it wassuch a such a well, I'd like
to hear and maybe would do itfor a follow up episode. I would
love to hear Kendra's side of thatstory, the exact same story, but
hers from her standpoint, because again, and we'll wrap up pretty soon here,

(42:15):
but I'm thinking, at the minimum, if she was going to ride
with a strange guy, now,strange guy, I'm couching with the fact
that you've worked together all summer.But but the odds are today even if
that ride still happens. At theminimum, she texts her parents and says,
Hey, is it okay? Ifso and so this guy gives me
a ride to my aunt and uncle'shouse. I mean, there's just there's

(42:37):
so much you know, safety ism, safety monitoring, monitoring, this the
level of risk at every stage inlife, and it's like, you know,
I did hear again, I don't. I don't want to overly share
him, but I think that Jonathanto hate guy. I thought that he.
I heard a podcast within the lastmonth about about when we don't allow

(43:00):
young kids to have healthy amounts ofrisk, they don't. Then when they
get as an adults, they arethat's a skill that they just have not
learned at all. So like lettingyour kid walk down the street, let's
say, even in a digital agetoday, you know, in the eighties,

(43:21):
in the eighties, basically what everyone'sadmitting now was, yes, there
were a few child abductions that goton the news, but the stats really
show that child abductions were lower thanthe news was sharing. What that did
is it got a lot of people. And gen X is responsible because we're
the parents to overly shadow their kidson at every step of the way.

(43:45):
And even like letting your kid walktwo blocks or four blocks to their friend's
house, even just that walk todaycan be helpful just to allow a little
bit of freedom at that age.And I know that everyone freaks out when
they hear that, Oh my gosh, I'm not going to let them walk
down the street. Well, youknow what, what what about when they

(44:07):
wind up in Chicago and their cardoesn't work in the ret rental car agency.
You know, at eleven at night, what are they going to do?
You know? Yes, no,this is exactly. I couldn't agree
more that that that life is aboutthe unexpected and taking risks and you don't

(44:28):
know how it's going to turn out. And I mean, road trips are
absolutely fantastic for this. I recallgoing on fact one that you were on
all the another just another quick justjust because, a quick little story about
this. This happens all the time, right when you're traveling, Crazy stuff
happens. It's just the last time. I don't know. We've been in

(44:50):
Chicago a few times recently, butone of our recent trips together, I
had my son with me, right, if you recall in Chicago, Oh
yes, that's right, I forgotyep. Yeah. And on our way
home from that trip and we hadgone I think we left you in Chicago.
We went out to North Carolina andthen we were trying to get home.
If I recall, we made afew stops in really a fun time,

(45:12):
but we're trying to get home forHalloween. If I recall, I
think it was Halloween and this waswas it Halloween last year? The year
before when everything went crazy with theairlines and when did it? Anyway,
we ended up getting stranded a coupleof different times, like we got stopped,
we got delayed, and then wegot stranded, and then we ended

(45:34):
up in Phoenix. And that wasit. We were stuck in Phoenix,
and I just recall looking around athow people were interacting, and even my
son He's like, Dad, thisis bad, right, this is bad.
And I'm like, well, Imean no, you know, I
mean, yeah, it's a pain. It's a pain. Yeah, but
and I think, I mean,so what we had to do is we

(45:59):
had to we had to rent acar to drive home from Phoenix. Thanksfully,
we were within you know, sevenhours. So I'm like, yeah,
that's close enough. Let's go geta car. We'll be home.
We'll be home in time to trickor treat. We might be a little
bit late. Firsthit bumped me.Then you delay me. I can't see
what. I can't wait to seewhat you're gonna do next. Well,
that is, by that time inthe trip, I mean, I think

(46:20):
we were supposed to be home Saturdaymorning or Friday night, and now it's
Sunday afternoon and we're trying to getit was one of those but whatever,
you know, you figure it out. But I do think, like all
of these years that I've been doingthis, I mean, it was like,
no, son, it's okay,what I am going to do?
Though, And here's where the technologyhelped me out. On that day,
Well, everyone else, well everyoneelse was running to not everybody was,

(46:43):
but several people like some some werefrozen, like I guess we're here till
Wednesday. Many of us were runningto the rental car section, right,
yeah, But what I was doingis while we're running, I was reserving
my car online. I will givethe phone that much credit, okay.
And so by the time we arrivedthere, I had booked the last of

(47:07):
the rental cars on my phone.So you know, full circle again.
I'm not a lot ied. I'lluse the tech. I just we need
to recognize like when it's when it'sgood and when it's bad. The phones,
the phones and the stuff can becan be great. I mean,
you know, I was just sharingyou yesterday about you know, So when

(47:30):
I get home from these trips,after I've done these interviews, the first
thing I do is transcribe the interview. So I work from a text,
right, I'm not trying to scrubthrough each video each time trying to remember
where she said he or she saidthis. I work from a text so
often. But in the old days, that would take me days and days

(47:50):
of just like hour by hour.Here you've got hours and hours of footage
and for several days. I mean, if it's a big project, that's
might be the first six weeks.Like all you're doing is transcribing, if
you know, if I've got youknow, some of these movies we've done,
I got twenty two videos, youknow, twenty two interviews in outreach,
right, typing all those out andthen if I felt like I had

(48:12):
time, maybe you would ship thoseoff online and somebody to pay somebody,
you know, a couple of bucksso a minute. But that gets expensive
now with the tech. Then,in fact, the service we used to
record this podcast they offer for freeAI transcribing that does that in about forty
five seconds. What used to takewhat used to take me easily a day

(48:36):
for one one video they do perfectlyin forty five seconds for free. And
so I'm like, well that,I mean, hey, you know technology
goes goes forward and backward, andsomebody's somebody I'm not, you know,
somebody's out of a job now whoused to do that? But and it's
not like I'm doing less work.I'm just doing different work, right like
you just okay, now that's yeah, that's day and maybe that maybe I

(49:00):
can add this to my five questionsor seven or eight whatever they are,
is you know, what are youdoing now with all that time that you're
well, that's and you know,I told my kids we were doing a
section on you know, we're teachingus history and the effects of technology,
and and I'm like, listen,people don't work less. They just do
different work. So it's not likeI tech. Oh that used to take

(49:21):
me two days. Now I justgot it done in a minute. What
am I gonna Am I going togo relax for the next two days.
No, I'm moving on to thenext thing more. Yeah, totally,
I'm moving on to the next stageof the project. Maybe I get the
project done faster fair enough. Yeah, So that part's good. But it's
not like you're doing You're just doingit anyway. It's well the a yeah,

(49:43):
the AI stuff is a whole separate. I mean, we're we're now
at the cusp of basically, we'rewe're at the cusp of another you know,
the equivalent of the social media stuff. But now at least maybe we're
thinking about it more. I don'tsay we're going to stop it at all.
We're just we're we're at least consideringthe impact. I don't know what
that will mean other than yeah,that's a whole nother thing. Hopefully,

(50:08):
hopefully it does not mean in thisI've seen a few times, you know,
just to sort of bring it backto relationships. Hopefully it won't mean
people using AI to for their relationships, which I have seen advertised quite Oh
you're a I friend now, Likeno, no, okay, human beings

(50:29):
are human beings. Go spend sometime face to face. Yeah, I
think I do. I do thinkthere are a few positives that I don't
know that anyone at a large scaleof amount of people under the age of
twenty five is really embracing, youknow, living in the metaverse and creating

(50:49):
a person that is. I mean, it's literally you're you're talking about people
passing time while they at school orwork. That's what these things so far
seem to me to be they don'tthey don't have the they don't have any
ability to actually replace. And Idon't know if that gives me a comfort
or disappointment that we keep pushing them. Well, yeah, I mean I

(51:12):
do think there is a backlash onseveral levels. I think among the youth,
who are if we if we canget enough of them pulled out of
that digital swamp, that they areactually quite adept at seeing some of the
follies of the you know, theboomers, the extras, the millennials,

(51:36):
like we've done a lot of stupidthings, and some of them are are
obvious, you know, to thatyounger generation, like they're like, nah,
I I you just there's a traditionalistmovement actually, you know in many
areas of life among the kids whereno, I don't want you know,
something even like like seemingly small,although I don't think it's small, Like

(52:00):
no, I don't want to seea big video screen when I go to
church, for example, Right,No, I don't what do you mean
videos? You know? Like,No, I'm sick of the video screens.
I see video screens everywhere all daywhen I go to church. Yeah,
I want to I want to interactwith people, and I want to
interact with the divine. Give mean experience of the divine, don't give

(52:20):
me your digital nonsense. That tome is a is a favorable trend.
Yeah, no, that's true.When we were when we were down in
LA recently for Christmas with my mom, we went to Christmas Eve service at
my old large LA church, whichI thought my mom would love, and
you know, and we go inand the pastor is has the flu,

(52:43):
and the associate pastor has COVID andwe watched his message on a video screen
and I said, I, youknow, I thought we were going to
have the big hallelujah choir, thewhole thing. And my mom still really
enjoyed it. It was a greattime. It was the quality of everything
was great. But I just Ijust thought, oh no, I think
we left five minutes early and wejust hit the road and had a great

(53:04):
road trip home. Yeah. No, I think I do think that's a
really like clear image of where thedigital age just really falls short. Is
like the and and you know,so there's like almost levels like ideally you're
you're there with the pastor and thechoir and everybody physically present one step removed.

(53:27):
At least you're with other people,even if we are watching the screen
and we're singing together. Yeah,yeah, I mean at least there's that.
I mean one step behind that wouldbe everybody at home watching it on
TV. Right, Like, whata disaster that is. I mean nobody
wants that's which that's a waste ofcomplete waste of time, which is what
covid you know, like, ohyeah, no, just stay home nor

(53:50):
no, stay stay home and watchand watch some soap operas or sitcoms when
you're sick. Okay, maybe,but no, you're not gonna you're not
going to get the learning and edge. But you can't do you can't do
church, you can't do school.There's just things you can't. You can't
and not let me. You can'tbuild a relationship and fall in love with
somebody, right as we so,as we wrap up, Yes, as

(54:16):
we wrapped up, I'm not aI'm a philosopher and not I'm not gonna
I'm not gonna be a This isnot going to be an instructional podcast,
I don't think. But yeah,as you wrap up and think about your
story, one question I had foryou that I thought was maybe interesting is
that just just came up? Nowtoday is knowing what we know about technology

(54:39):
and how I want to want tosay married, But just how normal your
your kids are? How do yourkids respond to this story? And are
they able to are they able toembrace that or appreciate that risk or no?
Does it just doesn't. It's likea different language in many ways because

(55:04):
I've heard the story. Yeah,they've heard the story, and and they
live with their mother and I,you know, and a big part of
our life has been road trips.You know. We try to get a
couple in every year at least becauseof what they do and and listen,

(55:25):
the best always, the best storiescome from those road trips there because they're
adventures. So I don't know,I do think I do think they get
it a little at least a bit, and and we don't. And I've
become stronger on this as the kidshave have grown up. So we were,

(55:46):
you know, you learn as yourparent. But like my youngest,
like, you know, good luckyou ever get in a phone, kiddo,
Sorry about that, Sorry about that. You know, the age keeps
going up. You know, sometimesyou get more lenient with some of these
things, which some things you doget more lenient with the younger kids.
With the phones, I've become stricter, like no, you're not no,

(56:08):
because here's what here's the other thingI've known, Like hopefully yes, the
kids have sort of imbibed that adventurouslike go and experience things and take a
risk, like they see the difference. You know, you go to cars
Land at Disneyland, and hey,don't I don't mind Disneyland people, but

(56:28):
listen, go out to Monument Valleyand tell me that there's really a difference,
you know, right, Okay,go to Monument Valley and if you
can start to see why Disneyland isokay, but it's a facsimile of the
real thing, right, that's allit is, right, and the real
thing is so much better and somuch of if you can see that through

(56:51):
all of life, like your digitalrelationships you're texting, it's a little bit,
it's okay, it's not that it'snot real, but it's a shadow
of the real thing. And thereal thing is flesh and blood, people
being together. And so I mean, I do, I do think about
that, and I do try to, like, for example, our our

(57:13):
evening meal, everybody's always in personaround a table. There's if we can't,
I mean, sometimes people are doingstuff. I am surprised at how
few families do that anymore, thatthey're just I don't know, we just
eat whenever and we're off doing stuffand they don't spend like the physical unit.
I do think we have tried onthe But on the other hand,
I have been frankly amazed at howmuch the attitude of the culture just like

(57:39):
seeps in anyway, Like it's justit's just the air they breathe. That
that sort of digital either safety likehow if a kid didn't have a phone,
they would still some of some ofthe phone is the effects the culture,

(58:00):
Yeah, like that idea of that, Yeah, Like the digital culture
is such that it is changing theway we think and live and breathe by
its nature, you know. Likeand there's been some good you know,
tech writers on this over the years, right, Like they have warned about
this that it's not so much youknow, what's the technology doing, Like

(58:22):
what is it? You know,so it provides me a transcript in forty
seconds, Yes, not so muchthat as how is it making you rethink
the world and see the world differently? And interact with people differently. So
I mean, I think hopefully mykids, you know, they're we but
we've thought about that, right,like we've tried to well, but it's
still hard. It's still hard.I think, yeah, well, there's

(58:44):
two things that I'll leave you withand then we'll and then we'll we really
will will wrap up. That isthere is a nod to Plato's Cave there
that you were just alluding to.That's that was a good that's a good
opportunity to to have the Plato's Cavebe a a little road trip you know,
lesson or story if you're on.But then I just thought of something

(59:04):
fun. What if the next timeyou go on a road trip, just
for fun. Again, you can'tgo back in time, but what if
you just, you know, occasionally, send your kids into the gas station
at the at the front, havethem buy a bottle of water, whatever
they're buying, and ask them fordirection somewhere. Just say, hey,
ask that guy if he knows howmany how how far it is to uh,

(59:24):
you know, to Bryce? Ifis this is this? You know,
we're on our way to Zion?How how far to Bryce? And
no no, even no, no, that's an actual that's an actual,
real world example. Not but it'snot even just ask for directions, although
that's a great one, but Ihave found it. I don't think it's
just my kids, but people arevery hesitant to go even interact with the

(59:49):
cashier at all. Like people arevery you know, like, okay,
I'll go pay my but what ifcan't we just order online and pick it
up without actually interacting? Like thatis the way. That's the way people
are very much the more, That'swhat I'm saying with the tech, like
you order your Starbucks, you orderyour Starbucks mobile, it's there waiting on
the thing. When you get there. They like, why what's with the

(01:00:14):
drive through lines? I mean,I get it. But what I'm like,
just walk in. It's fine,nobody's in line walking in, Yet
the drive through line goes for twomiles? What are you doing? I
do think we have to really focus. And I've noticed this, like,
yeah, we make our kids likeno, you go ask that guy,
go ask go go buy you gobuy the bottle of water. No,
I don't want to, no,go and don't. I mean I'm not

(01:00:37):
saying we're gosh, we've made somany mistakes. It's not like we're doing
great at this, but but theseare the kind of things I think we
do think about raising kids at adigital age. Is that man, you
know, yes, yes the mapsare nice, but that that adventure we
we've lost a little bit of thatrisk taking in that adventure. Well I

(01:00:59):
won't. I wonder if again,because we're we're not gonna You're not a
ledite. We're not going to removeourselves. We know we're not. We
can you know, I think inthe early ages people talked about different things,
and we're not going to remove ourselves. Smallness. It's just there's there's
too many things that we're connected toand have to be. But I wonder
if the road trip is a goodlittle small area where you can try out

(01:01:21):
some of these low level risks,you know, just the road trip setting
might be because then psychologically they associatea road trip with I'm gonna I'm going
to have I might have an awkwardconversation, but I also might have a
funny story when I get back tothe van. You know, and we
and we always do right and andso I don't know, like, yes,

(01:01:42):
I understand it's our personality. Thankfully, my wife and I both love
to road trip, and we liketo hike and hikes hike is like a
mini little road trip, which Ialso encourage people if you if you're looking
for that sense of adventure and notknowing what's around the next corner and how
to tackle I honestly can't think ofmuch that we've done better than to get

(01:02:04):
our kids out into national parks andhiking, because it's the same thing like,
yeah, but but but there's snowthere. Yeah, yeah, we
got to get we got to getover it. How are we going to
do it right? How are wegoing to do it? Well? What
do you mean? How are yeah, let's go, we got to get
to there. And obviously you don'twant to be stupid with your risks,
but but there is a certain amountlike of like life is you can't control

(01:02:30):
it, life is well, yeah, life is risk and if you but
but the idea of risk in generallife life is risk. And yeah,
when you go to a national park, you know, if you if you
want to hike up, if there'sthere's there's a high probability that if you
take your kids up half dome,that that might be more risk than they've

(01:02:52):
ever seen on any show they've everwatched trying to navigate those the cables and
the waterfalls, and yeah, isthere danger? Yes? Are there people
that step over the rail and falloff Nevada Falls? Yes, And uh,
you know, we don't want tooverly be a daredevil, but they've
got to understand what, you know, where the limits are. And yeah,

(01:03:15):
I think that the the interaction withreality that yeah, I mean again,
it seems overly simplistic, but goingout, drive to a national park
or wherever, right, there's plenty, go for a hike in the outdoors
and interact with reality is the antidoteto the digital age. One, I

(01:03:38):
mean one, one one, Okay, it's not not not the but one,
because the digital life is not complete, right it is. It's a
shadow life. It's very much it'svery much Plato's cave. Like we have
a we have a generation that's growingup thinking that you know that you know,

(01:04:00):
their their video game is reality Like, no, that's a shadow of
yeah, Plato's. It's a Plato'sCave generation. Maybe I don't know,
but uh, well, yeah,thank you for this, uh for that
story. I'm glad that you chosethat one. And I think a good
place to leave this is we willget your wife on a future episode,

(01:04:25):
and we're gonna have her. Sheshe can. But all of my points,
no, I wasn't attracted that guyat all. I mean I told
my dad, this guy's an idiot. Yeah, she's gonna say, yeah,
she's gonna say. Oh my Mysister was like, what are you
crazy? You're not gonna go meetthis guy at ten thirty for coffee killer?

(01:04:47):
Totally because because what I do wantand it's a good I like leaving
things undone, which is another modernuh thing that people don't like to do.
But I wonder her conversation with herparents about college that next morning.
That's what I want to know.Yeah, no, true, true.
So well that's a good place toleave it. Great to talk to you

(01:05:10):
all. Then, thank you forepisode number one, and uh, we'll
see you on the next road trip. Sounds good.