Ep. 63 Spiritual Warfare/Sleep Paralysis w/Vicki Joy Anderson

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:25):
Alright, ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the Sunday Night
Double Play. I'm your host, Hank. I've got my brother
Chef Kyle in the house, and this episode of Sunday
Night Double Play is going to be brought to you
by Peter pet Willing and it's gonna check them out
purepet Wellness dot Com and promo codet six fourth three
at checkout get twenty percent off your order. Kyle, it's Friday, dude.
It's like we were saying offline, it's it's been a

(00:47):
week of Mondays, but we're at the end of it.
It's a it's a three day weekend for some of
us out here for the Memorial Day weekend. And and uh,
I couldn't think of a better way to end this
week than with our guests. Man, We've we've got an
absolute legend in the space, so one with us tonight
and someone who is personally affected not just my life,

(01:09):
but so many others. We've got none other than the
Miss Vicky Joy Anderson in the house. Oh how are
you doing, ma'am? I'm so happy to have you on.

Speaker 2 (01:20):
Man, I'm doing great. I'm even more excited now that
you said it was Friday, because I never know what
day it is, and I'm like, oh, it's Friday. That's awesome.
So hey, I get a day off tomorrow too.

Speaker 1 (01:30):
Oh if it's any constellation, it's been the Monday is
Friday in the history of Fridays.

Speaker 2 (01:35):
I know, I know it really Friday exactly. When you're
lost in editing all day long, it all all all
hope for for a living just goes off the door.
Oh man, oh man. Yeah, well cool, Happy Friday, guys.
This is great. That's good news.

Speaker 3 (01:57):
Yeah, it's it's been a crazy it's a crazy week.

Speaker 4 (02:02):
But I feel like I say that every Friday, and
once we get it, really, that's just kind of how
it goes.

Speaker 3 (02:11):
Yeah. Happy to be here, Vicky. Happy to have you.

Speaker 4 (02:15):
I'm very, very very excited for this conversation and I
can't wait to see where it goes.

Speaker 1 (02:24):
So, Miss Vicky, I've reached out to you, oh probably
two three weeks ago, and and and it's really it's
been the most amazing journey leading up to tonight, because
not only with hearing what you had to say about
my initial you know, interaction with you, it's been what's

(02:48):
happened since then, like if if that what what?

Speaker 2 (02:52):
What?

Speaker 1 (02:52):
We finished talking? When we finished talking to night of
folks still don't believe that there is a god and
that he will work directly in your life. That I
don't know what will convince you, because I have no
nothing to gain by sitting behind the camera and making
stuff up. I doubt you do here. And it is

(03:16):
this journey, It just never ceases to amaze me. So
I want to I want to talk about what you are,
you know, known for with the sleep paralysis and your
take on that, because it's truly a genuinely original, in
my opinion, idea that you have come to and it's

(03:40):
literally saving lives if you ask me m. But I
also want to, you know, tell you the story of
how yours, how how that whole ordeal has has changed me.
But for those who might listen to our show, Kyl
and Eyes, what's the thirty thousand foot view of what

(04:04):
you have going on?

Speaker 2 (04:07):
Yeah, basically anything you read online about sleep paralysis is
either disinformation or complete and utter ignorance. A lot of
it has been relegated into fiction creepy pasta, and anyone
that has it is either not taken seriously. There's just

(04:30):
a tension getting there's schizophrenic, they have narcolepsy. We've just
been gas lit from day one. We have everything except
what we say we have. And what's really sort of,
you know, disheartening to me personally, is all of the
experiencers who are out there who are really lining up

(04:54):
and saying a lot of the same things. We don't
get to set the narrative.

Speaker 1 (04:59):
You know.

Speaker 2 (04:59):
You would think if thousands of people had had this,
that they would be the ones to, you know, determine
the narrative. But a lot of people out there who
are writing the narrative on this experience are people who've
never experienced it themselves. And there's just an irony in that,
of course. But anytime you've got a cover up, you

(05:20):
got to wonder why things are being covered up, right,
And so down the rabbit hole we go. Do you
want me to start kind of just with like a
brief little synopsis of why this topic is of interest
to me? Or should I define the term first?

Speaker 1 (05:36):
You have the reins, you take this wherever you want
to go.

Speaker 2 (05:40):
Okay, let's just define the term so that we're all
on the same page here. Sleep paralysis is actually a
fairly new phrase. I think it's only been around about
twenty five years as far as when I first started
hearing it. Prior to that, people would describe the phenomenon,
but there wasn't this convenient little name for it. And
I will tell you, I don't know who came up

(06:01):
with the phrase sleep paralysis, but it is really unfortunate
because physiologically, we all have phases of sleep that we
go in and out of where we are paralyzed. It's
just baked into our system. It was the way God
made us. It's a protective measure so we don't act

(06:22):
out our dreams. This is why people sleep walk, or
they have episodes where they thrash about in bed or
even bed wetting, believe it or not. Is when that
function breaks down, we go into states of paralysis as
a measure of protection to keep us in our beds
so that we're not acting out dreams or hurting ourselves

(06:42):
or others. So there's really nothing fantastic or supernatural or
phenomenal whatsoever about sleep paralysis. And so when you say
sleep paralysis, what we're really talking about are people who
have attacks during these phases of sleep and whatnot. But Basically,

(07:04):
I don't even know where to begin, you, guys, because
almost everything they say online about the sleep paralysis experience
is just wrong at best.

Speaker 4 (07:16):
Do you think it's more so like the origins of
why someone is experiencing sleep paralysis?

Speaker 2 (07:27):
Yeah? I think so. You know what, it's really helpful
to everyone if we can just say this is some
sort of a glitch, it's a sleep abnormality. Hey, just
take some melotonein, you know. Let's keep everything copastic. Let's

(07:47):
not start delving into supernatural. Let's keep our science and
our medicine intelligent and intellectual and clean. Let's not add
anything that could smack at religion or spirituality. And surprisingly, guys,
this is this topic. I'll tell you why sleep paralysis
is such a unique topic. This is one of those

(08:09):
topics where if you put everybody kind of into these
big categories, everyone who has something to say about this,
this issue, this phenomenon. You've got science and medicine, you've
got the Church, capital c you know, all denominations, you
have got New Age Eastern mysticism, and then you've got,

(08:31):
let's say the occult. Strangely, you're going to get the
most closest to the truth about what this really is
and what's going on from the occult. They're the only
ones willing to talk about what this really is. And
so in the past, before this phrase sleep paralysis got,

(08:52):
you know, dubbed, the only people really talking about sleep
paralysis as closely to what I think it is was
the occult. The New Age would talk about it, but
they would talk about it like it's this wonderful gift
and you're going to be, you know, getting all sorts
of arcane knowledge and experiences and giftings from the astral

(09:14):
realm and your spirit guides and they're all, you know,
whereas the occult would actually compare it to more of
a vampiric experience. And if you go all the way
back into what was written in the past, Samerian texts,
Mesopotamian texts, Acadian texts, Egyptian and Babylonian texts, they didn't

(09:38):
talk so much about vampires. That's sort of a fairly
new word. But they would talk about these entities, these incubus,
the succubus, the screech owl, the lilith, all of the
Lamia lamash to type of entities, these night demons that
would come to torment and drain the life force out

(10:01):
of people, and who would possess or torment or harass
humanity and the occult and going all the way back
into ancient demonology and paganism, that's where you're going to
get the most honest glimpse into who these sleep paralysis

(10:24):
entities are. And as we move forward into time, these
entities get more and more fictionalized, more and more downplayed,
and more and more vague. So if you go into
ancient texts, you'll actually get the names of these entities
and what they specifically were doing and what their agenda was.

(10:46):
And now you get these almost sophomoric labels. They're not names,
or these very juvenile labels, and all of these entities
have been relegated down to descriptions that really affive. Old
would come up with shadow man, hat man, you know,
things like this, and and in downplaying them, you're also downplowed,

(11:09):
down playing the seriousness of it. So people are not
afraid of these things. They aren't entering into it with
any sort of fear. And we see this all over
social media. There's all sorts of stuff about, you know, hey,
drink benadrill and meet the hat Man or my sleep
paralysis demon be like what like, I mean, there's all
these like sleep paralysis demon memes now, right, And I

(11:32):
admit I laugh at them. People send them to me
all the time. Some of them are hysterical, so I
don't take it. You know, I can take a joke basically, right.
But the fact of the matter is these entities are
far more than memes, and it's it's far more than
just narcolepsy. These things prey on people typically of very

(11:57):
specific bloodlines, very specific things, very specific types of childhood trauma.
And this is why a lot of people will say, well,
I've never had that. Well, you know, there's different kinds
of spiritual warfare. If you go under the whole entire
umbrella of spiritual warfare, this is one way that humanity
can be harassed. And they've got plenty of tricks up

(12:19):
their sleep. Not everyone is going to get their sleep
paralysis at night when they're asleep. And the reason that
is is that they are looking for targeting very specific
types of individuals with particular giftings or particular personality quirks.

(12:40):
And this is partially because they have to keep this
covert and for hundreds of years. This has been a
pretty covert operation because people have been afraid to talk
about it lest they be the schizophrenic, lest they be
put on heavy psychotropic medication that in most cases makes
this experience even more terrifying. They want to avoid being

(13:05):
institutionalized in the church, They want to avoid being judged
or labeled a certain way. It's a highly misunderstood phenomenon
and so most people are very reticent to talk about it.
But I think we're entering into a new era because
obviously people are talking about it now. Now, a lot

(13:28):
of people are not one hundred percent comfortable talking about
the full experience. They'll talk about the shadow man and
being paralyzed and being scared, but they're not necessarily talking
about the things that open the doors, and they're not
necessarily always talking about the almost always present sexual components.

(13:50):
We know that from the UFO abduction world that there's
often experimentation and cloning and a lot of sexual even
if that's not defined in the same way as human
to human contact. But you hear that a lot in
the UFO world, and a lot of sleep paralysis experiencers.

(14:12):
We'll talk about their experience, but they will leave that
part out due to shame or fear, fear of being judged,
fear of being ostracized, fear of being called crazy, shame guilt,
depending on your religious persuasion. There's people that just don't
want to talk about that stuff in general. And that's
not to say that every single person has the same experience,

(14:34):
but to deny that there is a sexual component to
sleep paralysis would just be we're not going to get
to the bottom of what this really is or what
the agenda is unless we talk very openly and intellectually,
honestly with one another about what it really is. And
the sexual stuff is a huge component. I will point

(14:57):
to this not because I'm recommending the film, but you
will see this agenda blown wide open, and if you
know what to look for, and you know what the
symbols are, and you know, you know, truth and plain
sight type of language, you're going to see this entire

(15:18):
agenda with the sexual aspects included, clearly laid out in
the Eggertz twenty twenty four film, the remake of the
nineteen twenty two Nosparatu. The twenty twenty four Nosparatu film
is the most blatant no holds barred admission to the
sleep paralysis agenda that I've ever seen in my life.

Speaker 1 (15:44):
Wow, I'm gonna have to go check that movie out.

Speaker 2 (15:47):
It's terrible. I'll just warn you. It's triggering. If you've
gone through this stuff, I will tell you, and just
be warned. If there are religious people or you know,
Christian peace in the audience. It's not an entertainment piece.
It is very likely in occult charged film. I would

(16:08):
not go to the film unless you feel led to
do so and under much prayer. It is extremely triggering
if any of this stuff has happened to you, if
you are a survivor of childhood trauma or r A, SRA,
d i D, sleep paralysis, night tares, sleepwalking, if you've
had any of those types of experiences, it will be

(16:29):
very triggering. And it is dark and it leaves absolutely
nothing to the imagination if you want to read between
the lines and catch my drift there.

Speaker 4 (16:43):
Wow, I don't think I've seen Yeah, I definitely think
I would have known if I had seen that film.
But that's very interesting the way that they're they're putting
this out there.

Speaker 3 (16:56):
In obviously in a way of.

Speaker 4 (17:00):
Film, But then do you think there do you, I guess,
let me ask you this. Do you think that there's
more There's probably more truth to sleep paralysis in that
film as opposed to what you're going to find on
a simple Google search.

Speaker 2 (17:15):
One hundred percent one hundred percent, you know. And I
want one of these days, And I've been saying for
months now that I'm going to do this, and you know,
just trying to get the time. Eventually, I am because
I downloaded this script. You can get a couple versions
of the final script online, and I read through it
several times and I took copious notes, and I do

(17:37):
want to eventually do a YouTube series on my YouTube
channel where I'm explaining to some to tip people every
single symbol and giveaway that is in that film, every
Easter egg, everything that you are absolutely not going to
catch if you're not looking for it. But that entire
movie very similar to Inception. It's a dream within a

(18:00):
dream within a dream plot going on, and a lot
of times you're going to think that there's a character
relocating to different places on the map when they are
actually in some sort of underworld or astral realm and
you don't realize it. One could even say that Thomas,
who's the main character's husband, Ellen's husband. For a good

(18:25):
portion of the movie, he is in a dream world.
He's in a dream state and does not know it.
And it's given away subtly and through symbol, but it's
also very overtly given away as all. At as well,
it has got every type of covenant in it. You

(18:46):
see the Threshold Covenant, you see the Betrothal Covenant, you
see the Blood Covenant, and you see the Salt Covenant.
All of these covenants, which are the permissions that we give,
the invitation that we give to the vampire, all of
them are present. And the whole concept of the spirit
spouse is in there. The Solemonari is in there, the

(19:07):
Onochian is in there. Even there is a slight hat
tip to the Cerberus, the three headed dog that guards
the gates to the underworld, but it's in the form
of three separate wolves, because I think they don't want
to make it too plain, because they don't want to
give away the fact that that Nosferatu actually lives not

(19:29):
in Transylvania, but lives in the underworld in another dimensional space.

Speaker 4 (19:37):
Wow, now I gotta watch it. Now, I definitely got
to watch it now.

Speaker 2 (19:43):
Yeah, you know, it's crazy. I really was reticent to
even talk about it in the beginning because I felt like,
I don't want to. I'm not trying to titillate or
get people to watch the movie. But I will tell
you this, if you operate in the realms of spiritual warfare,
you're a pastor youth group leader, if you feel some
sort of a calling into different fields of deliverance ministry,

(20:06):
if you have any sort of youth ministry, because we're
going to just be hearing so much more because of
the uprise of the stuff on social media. When you
hear your kids or your grandkids talking about shifting or
reality shifting, or the back rooms or liminal spaces, or
the dreamscape or the mall world which is big on

(20:30):
four Chan and read it these days, this is all
a lulling and a wooing of our kids into other
dimensional spaces where they are interfacing with fallen fallen beings,
and they are being groomed into a theosophic religion that

(20:53):
will lead people away from Jesus Christ and will ultimately
lead them even away from their health humanity. As this
gets closer and closer to singularity, transhumanism, as some people
call it. All of these, all of these topics intertwine,
they're all part ultimately the same agenda, and that is
to get us to not just deny who the Messiah is,

(21:16):
but to deny who we even are as human beings.
And with the changing of our DNA and all of
this grooming up to this point has been going on
in the astral realm and in the dreamscape, it is
now coming out of that because with technology, frequency, binaural beats,

(21:38):
brain entrainment, psychotropic medication THHC, as well as virtual reality
and augmented reality and the goggles, the halo, lucid dreaming
headband devices, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. As our
kids pile on all of these different medications and frequencies

(21:59):
and technologies and they're interacting with the chat boxes, they
are going to start interfacing with these beings and entities
face to face in the physical realm. Because the necessary
component to stepping through these liminal spaces and these portals
is altered states of consciousness, which used to be limited

(22:22):
to drugs, alcohol, the hypnopopic hypnogogic phases of sleep, which
is when people in countersleep paralysis. It's when they're fading
in and out of sleep. They're half away, half asleep.
Ayahuasca It used to require some sort of sedate deep
form of meditation or psychotropics or psychedelics, but all of

(22:47):
those were just facilitating an altered state of consciousness. And
now our technology and our medication and our frequencies and
the heavy metals, the spike proteins, the great fineoxide, all
the stuff that we're ingesting and breathing in, uh, we
are becoming receptors for all of these things. And pretty soon,

(23:11):
instead of being typically in and out of maybe just
a alpha beta state during waking hours, they're not even
content just to get us into a mild state of
hypnosis like sitting in front of a television used to do.
They are increasing and ramping up their technology through frequencies

(23:33):
and these were the wearable tech and the five G
and all that, where we are actually going to be
lulled in waking hours into Theta states, which is typically
a sleep state. And you know, you want to talk
about the walking dead, you want to talk about a
zombie apocalypse. Forget Michael Jackson's thriller. You know, Forget Forget,

(23:53):
you know, Night of the Living Dead. We as human
beings who become more and more and more dependent and
addicted to our technology, we will be the zombies. We
will be the walking dead.

Speaker 4 (24:08):
It almost seems like we're already almost there, Vicky. As
scary as that does sound, I feel like we are
almost there. And then the fact that that you mentioned,
you know, they're trying to get us into these states, right,
so naturally someone that.

Speaker 3 (24:30):
Is experience experiencing sleep.

Speaker 4 (24:32):
Paralysis, you would be in that that state of mind,
as you said, like you're you're coming and going, You're
kind of right there, kind of floating in the middle.
And the fact that they would want and that they
are actively trying to keep us in that state while
we are going about our regular day is absolutely terrifying.

(24:55):
And some of the the mediums that you were speaking of,
like I I've partaken, you know, I have a VR
headset that I had bought. And if if anyone has
not tried a VR headset, let me tell you that

(25:15):
it's it's wild, and it's wild, not only just the
technology as wild, but to to mash together what you
are saying, and again just a simple uh A VR
headset is is really scary and it's something that I
haven't really thought about before until until right now. I

(25:39):
can only imagine what that's gonna look like in time,
because already right now it is intense when when you
when you put this device on, you do not feel
like you literally feel like.

Speaker 3 (25:54):
You are somewhere else.

Speaker 4 (25:57):
Like you you and it is they do a very
good job of it. When whenever I'm whenever I've it's
been a while since i've I've used one, and of
course when I when when I bought one, and when
I was using one and sharing it with friends and family,
there was no nefarious reasons behind that.

Speaker 3 (26:22):
But it's a trip for those that haven't checked it out.

Speaker 4 (26:25):
And if you are are listening to a Vicky is saying,
and just picture a couple of years from now, it
is gonna be oh so real. And I know that
kind of went went off a little bit. But I
have one other question real quick that I wanted to
ask you. As far as sleep paralysis goes, and like
a nightmare or a really bad dream, would it be.

Speaker 3 (26:47):
Fair to say that they are one of the same.
Maybe sleep paralysis.

Speaker 4 (26:52):
Might be like a nightmare, but like a level ten
nightmare as opposed to like, can you break that down
just a little mid as far as nightmares and sleep paralysis.

Speaker 2 (27:02):
Goes, absolutely absolutely And I do detail this in the book,
I think in chapter one, and just so everyone knows,
this is like such synchronicity. Here there is a massive
flash of flood going on outside of my window right now.
So if you're here thunder and seeing flashes of lightning
or whatever, it's appropriate to the topic. So we've got
some ambiance going here.

Speaker 1 (27:24):
You've been dropping bombs ever since we started going and
in I'm hearing explosions in the background. I'm like, this
is just is this just me? Or am I tripping?

Speaker 2 (27:33):
Or I have to tell you that because I didn't
even know we were getting bad weather or anything. And
the very first time I got we got this massive
bolt of thunder was when I brought up nos foratu
and I was like, well, what's going on? Oh my goodness.
So yeah, that's all for free guys, that's the backing track.
But yeah, so interestingly, the very word night mayre originally,

(28:01):
if you etymologically go back to where that term came from,
it meant nothing other than sleep paralysis or more specifically,
you were being visited by a succubus who was on
top of you. You were paralyzed because this succubus was
holding you down. And in ancient languages, instead of Lilith

(28:25):
or succubus, they it was the Mara that was that
was the name, and so if you were having a Nachmara,
it meant that Mara visited you in in the night.
So very technically we as English speakers, this is lost,
but we technically use the term nightmare out of context

(28:47):
the same way. Uh, there's a headache and there's a migraine, right,
And there's a lot of people where every time they
get a headache, oh the migraine, it's like I'll stop.

Speaker 3 (28:54):
You know, I don't know you. Yeah, you would know
if you had a migraine and you yeah.

Speaker 2 (29:02):
Significantly different. Right, average headache. You can throw back a
coke or a coffee and I feel better. Right, And so, uh,
the nightmare comes from the idea that there is some
sort of uh Lamia Lamash to Lily, Lily to Lilith
entity visiting you at night. Now, lest everyone think that,

(29:26):
I think every single thing that we dream or everything
that goes on in our conscious at night is some
sort of demon. No, there's such thing as a bad dream.
We're stressed out people, and when when we go to
bed at night, our brain defrags. And when we're having
just a normal dream, if we're a stressed out person,
or maybe we're in deep grief, maybe we're heartbroken. Uh

(29:47):
maybe you know, there's a lot going on in our life,
our brain is going to defrag and we're going to
get some kookie dreams. You know, we're going to show
up at school buck naked, and you know we're going
to have all all of the dancing pillows and you know,
all that kind of stuff. Right, So, there really is
a difference between a bad dream and a nightmare and

(30:08):
sleep paralysis, which is also this is a good point
in the discussion to make this differentiation. Sleep paralysis is
not synonymous with night terrors either. So night teares is
another thing that that people are aware of, and unlike
sleep paralysis, nighttares is a pretty good name for it.
So whoever came up with that one, good job. So

(30:31):
I'm going to be speaking in broad stroking generalities right
now because there's always outliers. But if you want to
talk about the typical night terror experiencer. It's more often
than not going to be male over female. It's going
to be pre puberty. A lot of people that have
night tares outgrow them. The hat man tends to accompany

(30:56):
the night ars more so than sleep paralysis. Nighttaars also
often comes with sleepwalking, bed wedding, and nose bleeds. And
I don't mean during the night, I mean that during
the waking hours, there's these nosebleeds that seem incongruent to

(31:20):
the temperature or the humidity or the wellness of the child.
And so those are some of the signs. And so
the reason I say these things is not because it's
true for every single person. But if you're a parent
and maybe you're not observing the nightcare portion, maybe you're
not seeing or hearing your child screaming at night a
lot of times, unlike sleep paralysis, most people with nighttairs

(31:43):
have no memory of it the next day. They don't
remember having a bad dream, they don't remember screaming, So
they're not probably going to come and announce to mom
at the breakfast table that they had had a nightcare
And so if mom and dad are not home or
they work night shifts or they sleep very heavy and
you're not aware that your child is going through this.
Most people are, but uh, the nosebleeds are are a

(32:07):
really good indication, and especially if it's accompanied with sleep
walking and bed wedding. So if you've got, you know,
a ten year old kid who should not be wedding
the bed and it has these no nose bleeds, these
are some of just some of the things that you
can be aware of that maybe you'll connect dots and go, oh,
my goodness, my kids having nighttares. So nighttares, bad dreams,

(32:32):
sleep paralysis, and nightmares are all really different things. And
I could go in a million different directions with that,
but I think sometimes I bog people down, and because
I like to geek out on things that are you know,
maybe not germane to the discussion. So I'll just leave
it at that for now.

Speaker 4 (32:52):
That that was a really excellent breakdown. I So I
grew up having night terrors, nightmares, sleep paralysis. I have
a dream that I remember having as a kid that
I will never forget. And essentially I was in a mall,

(33:16):
a very very very big mall. I cannot wait.

Speaker 3 (33:21):
There was no lights at all it was dark.

Speaker 4 (33:26):
And what's really wild about this one dream that that
a reoccurring dream that is is I'm gonna have to
go back and look into this. But I remember a book.
I think it was a book or maybe it was
a show. It was of Curious George, and I want
to say that he was in a mall got lost.

(33:49):
But long story short, what I have burned into my
brain is that like I was in this mall and
I remember just being so terrified, you know, you think,
and I think that also, So now that I'm thinking
about it, it almost kind of gets into like liminal
spaces there too, is as far as like this big,

(34:09):
huge mall, it's just eerie. You almost have this essence
that of people walking around and just the hustle and
bustle of going into the mall and shopping and the
kids crying, I mean, just the whole nine yards. I
didn't make that connection until right now, but I but
I anyhow, that dream is something that I would always have.
And I remember being so terrified, so scared and could

(34:32):
not wake up, and I was essentially I don't ever,
I don't remember feeling physically pinned down, but mentally pinned down,
I guess would be the best way to describe that.

Speaker 3 (34:45):
But I also had bed wedding so I and this
man I had it bad.

Speaker 4 (34:52):
So I mean I I was having bed wedding issues
in that sense, I mean sick teen seventeen, eighteen years old.

Speaker 2 (35:03):
Yep.

Speaker 4 (35:04):
And yeah, just you mentioning that is just really wild
because I remember just being so scared, like I was
terrified as a kid of the dark. And now obviously
it's it's a lot better. But yeah, anyhow, I just
wanted to share share that the dreams, the nightmares of

(35:26):
sleep process that I was experiencing, plus the bed wedding
as you, as you stated that all happened to me,
and it's it's yeah, it was a terrifying experience. And
I really hope and pray that my kids don't experience that,
and I as they haven't yet that I know of,
and I know that they've had like bad dreams and
stuff and they wake up super shook.

Speaker 3 (35:48):
But yeah, anyway, I just wanted to share that one point.

Speaker 2 (35:52):
That was it. Well, uh, you probably have no idea
the can of worms you just opened. Let's talk about
the Let's talk about the mall world. The mall world
is a eliminal space that predates the back rooms. Most

(36:15):
people that have been to the mall world say that
these dreams started around the nineteen eighties. I have all
sorts of very vivid memories of my nightmares and my
sleep paralysis instances that go all the way back to
probably nineteen seventy five, and I have no recollection of
being in the mall world until the nineteen eighties, which

(36:37):
is what most people will also say. If anyone's interested
in the mall world, just google mall world reddit for
There's also four Chan message boards that talk about it
as well. There's a couple of really good YouTube videos
where someone's just reading off of a four Chan message board,

(36:58):
and it's very in For if you've been to the
mall world and you're like, what is going on right now?
I can't believe what I'm listening to. You've been to
that mall to you'll get some you'll get a lot
of confirmation that you're not nuts when you read this stuff.
So the mall world, it's not just it's not just
a mall, Kyle, It's a whole world. So these other

(37:19):
places like the mall that you visit that also become bizarre.
They're all attached, so the amusement park, that, the airport,
the hotel, these these places where you start out fine,
you're in the mall, the lights are on, you're excited,
it's very nostalgic. You see a lot of other people around.
I don't know about you, but I rarely interact with

(37:42):
any of the people around me. And you're in that
mall for a good five minutes, and it's different for
different people. Some people say that then all of a
sudden they're being chased by the mall cops, like the
security comes after them. Okay, now I've never had that.

(38:02):
What happens with me is I get there and all
of a sudden, I come out of a store and
everyone's gone, and all the lights are off, and I'm
locked in and I'm lost. So no one's chasing me,
but I'm lost. Now, what's really fascinating about the mall world.
Whether you're in the mall or the bathrooms or the
amusement parker or wherever you're at in the mall world,

(38:25):
there's some bizarre physics going on in the in the
mall world. Once things go dark, the spatial framing of
everything now becomes off, so if you attempt to retrace
your steps, you'll start making note of landmarks. So then

(38:47):
you'll start to retrace your steps and everything's gone. It's
completely different. It's the landscape is changing on you. The
height of things and the severity of the angles are changing.
And so there is an elementary school, a high school,
and a college like a university in the mall world,
and I hate them because I'm everywhere I am in

(39:09):
the mall world. I get lost, all my friends disappear,
it gets dark, and I'm lost. And in the elementary school,
I open up a door and it's the gymnasium, and
I see the door out, you know, because the door
then behind you locks, and then you turn around and
the door is gone, and now the door has moved

(39:31):
all the way to the other side of the gym.
So you're like, you start to walk towards the other door,
and then all of a sudden there's a jungle gym
in your way, and you realize, I can't even get
to the exit unless I climb this jungle gym. And
as soon as you get on it, the jungle gym
then exponentially raises in height and it's awfully high, and

(39:54):
you're now afraid of the heights, and you don't realize
it untill you're in the very middle of it, and
it's now now falling apart and you're hanging off of it,
and you become very scared. So it does this everywhere
in the amusement park. You're on a roller coaster, and
as soon as you get up to the highest peak
and you're about to go down, you realize there's no
track there, or you realize there's no seat belt, or

(40:17):
everything gets distorted on you. And so what I thought
for the longest time is, Okay, you're in some sort
of abandoned wing of the astral realm, and this is
some sort of simulation. And unfortunately I do not know

(40:40):
video game terminology much. I haven't played a video game,
you guys, since Super Mario Brother on Super Nintendo. That's
kind of where my gaming knowledge stops. So if I
had the vocabulary and the understanding of modern gaming, I
think that this small world would make a thousand times
more sense to me, or I would have more concise

(41:01):
vocabulary to wrap around the experience. But I just thought,
for the longest time, this is a simulation, and all
these other people that are there with me that I
can't seem to really talk to, they must be This
is like a collective jump space where other people who
are dreaming have also been hauled up into here. And
for some reason, you can interestingly communicate with the people

(41:23):
who work in the stores in the mall, but you
can't interact with the other people, or you don't, at
least I don't. Some people might be able to. Another
thing that I've thought is really interesting is the mall
seems to be specific to your user experience. So a
lot of people online talk about visiting the arcade and

(41:47):
the gaming stores, and I've never seen either one. And
when I'm in the mall, I this is a recurring dream, okay,
And by recurring dream, I don't mean it's the same
dream with the same script and the same characters and
the same plot. It's a recurring location. And so when

(42:09):
I get to the mall, I now have been there
enough times where I'm like, oh, crap, it's the mall,
because i know I'm going to get locked in there. Well,
I've been locked in there so many times I know
now how to get out. But the stores that I
go to are very specific to my personality. It's almost
like they are are gathering this anthropomorphic algorithm. So your

(42:36):
user experience is specific to you. So I'm always in
bookstores and everything in there is something that I would
want in real life. It's all the authors and the
topics and that I would like. I am always in
a record store looking at all of the records. And
you're going in there and seeing all these like vintage records.
You know that you could you can? You thought we're

(42:56):
out of print. And then I go to a there's
a music store that has all these guitars, and so
those are the three. There's a salon in there where
you can get your hair and your nails done. I've
been there a few times. There's a jewelry store. So
it's very specific to like who you are. But because

(43:20):
it is a you're like, it's a cumulative learning experience.
So because I've been going to the mall for twenty
thirty years now, I've lost track. I now know that
the way out is you go all the way to
the end into the department store, which is ironically always
decorated for Christmas for some weird reason, and you go
through all these displays and you have to actually go

(43:42):
through a very heavy metal door that goes into the
employee breakroom and then you can get out into the
parking lot. Unfortunately, you're getting out on the wrong side
of the mall, so then you're trapped in the parking
lot amongst all the cars for quite a long time.
And it's interesting as you beat the system, and this
is why it's very much like a simulation or a
video game. As you learn to have your wits about

(44:07):
you and you remember where the exits are and things
like that, then there are hurdles that are thrown at you.
So the last couple times I got to the employee breakroom,
all of a sudden there were employees in there saying
get out of here. You can't be in here, you
don't work here, get out, And I'm like, leave me alone,
like and I make a b line for the door.

(44:27):
And after a while of having the dream and then
being trapped in the parking lot, which minor caveat here
guys Robert Monroe, who was dubbed the father of modern
astral projection, and he's actually the one responsible for training
a small branch of the US Army in the nineteen

(44:50):
eighties on how to remote view, which.

Speaker 1 (44:52):
Is just.

Speaker 2 (44:56):
Yes, right, So remote viewing is astral projection. It's just
a militarized, weaponized version of it. So Monroe wrote a
trilogy of books called The Far Journey's Trilogy, and blew
my mind the first time I read this. When you
have frequent dreams where you can't find your car, you're
in a parking ramp or a parking lot, and this

(45:17):
is part of the mall world as well, when you're
frantically looking for your car, and again, the spatial framework
is changing. So it starts out where there's five cars
in the parking lot, and then you turn around and
all of a sudden, there's thousands of cars and they're
all the same color. And it's it's just it's very
off putting.

Speaker 3 (45:33):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (45:33):
And what Monroe said is when you're having dreams where
you can't find your car, it's it's your conscious Your
consciousness is creating a metaphor. You're you're depending upon your worldview,
your soul, you know, your your astral body, your you know,
you know your chi like whatever you want to call it,

(45:56):
the part of you that has been separate from your body.
What when you're in this space, it's time to wake up,
and the body is almost it's almost like an alarm
clock that the body is giving you a count down
ten nine, like you you are, you know, I have
to get back in my body. My body's about to

(46:17):
wake up. And this this metaphor of a car, because
a car is a vessel that you get in and
it takes you everywhere like your body, right, And so
it was very bizarre the first time I read it,
because obviously I don't ascribe to the belief system that
Robert Monroe does, being you know, a biblical person. But

(46:37):
when I put two and two together of how many
hundreds of times I have had a dream where I'm
trying to escape the room and all of a sudden
I'm in a parking lot and I'm like, well, I
don't remember driving here to begin with, why do I
have to find my car? Some amazing things have come
out of this, I eventually determined, because again, you're you're

(47:00):
building off of the knowledge from the previous dream. You
retain what you've learned, you retain the blueprint. And so
by the time I got sick of looking for my
car until I woke up, I decided I can just leave.
I'm going to just walk home. I'm just going to
walk home. That was kind of my solution. So then
I had a few years that these dreams where I
would just meander the streets, and again, everybody goes away.

(47:23):
There's no one there, and all of a sudden it's dark,
and you think you're a couple of blocks from home.
And then after you get into it, you realize I'm
twenty miles from home. It would take it's going to
take me days to get home. And so again the
framework is changing on you as you go. I eventually
found this corner cafe. It was actually like an Irish pub,
and it was the only place in the whole neighborhood

(47:44):
that was open late because everything else had closed. And
the first time I was there, there was two young
girls working like at the hostess stand, and the stand
was outside, and I said, can I use your phone? Which, ironic,
I can never use a phone in my dreams. I
don't know why I asked for them. Whether it's my
own cell phone or it's a payphone, I can never

(48:07):
get a phone. Yeah, it just drives me crazy. I'll
dial the first few numbers and then it'll mess up.
And I'll have to start over and start over and
start over, and it drives me crazy. But I asked
these two girls, can I use your phone? And they said,
we don't have a phone here. Well, that's weird. And
then they said, but because they're a bar, they said,

(48:29):
we have a sober cab and if you wait by
that little bus stop sign, a like a trolley will
come and take you home. So the first time I
dreamt it, the trolley never came. The second time I
dreamt it, I was like, wait, there's a bar, and
I found the bar and it was the same two
girls and I but I had forgotten and I said,
can I use your phone? And they said we don't

(48:50):
have a phone. I'm like, oh, that's right. And I said,
but you have a trolley. I said, you have like
a sober cab and she said yeah. And that time
I waited and this bizarre are white kind of bus
slash trolley without a roof that had a canvas like
red and white striped like Fantasy Island, look, you know,

(49:12):
little vehicle like And what was so strange, you guys,
is the driver came up to me and he was
very friendly, and he gave me his name, which I
can't remember, but it was a very angelic, Gabriel like name,
and I felt instantly all the fear went away when
he showed up and he escorted me onto this trolley.

(49:35):
And there was a whole bunch of other people on
the trolley, and all of a sudden, now instead of
them being sort of almost see through or shadow like,
they were three dimensional, full color people. And when we
all got on the trolley, we were all talking to
each other, Oh, my gosh, oh you found your way. Oh,
we're so glad you made it so and so we'll
take care of you da. And the trolley driver drove

(50:01):
us all out of the mall world, so to speak. Now,
sometimes when I'm on the trolley, I will freak out
because he's taking me home. And then I'll realize that
we're in the neighborhood where I lived when we were
in when I was in junior high. So this is
the neighborhood I lived when I was like eleven to thirteen,

(50:22):
and I will become very fearful, and I will run
up to the trolley driver and I'll say this isn't
I don't live here anymore, And he'll say don't worry.
Don't worry, I say, I don't live here anymore, and
he'll drop me off in front of my house from
junior High, and then I will wake up and I'm wondering, guys,
I just stumbled upon this the other day that a

(50:45):
lot of my trauma, which I think is the doorway
to a lot of these experiences. I had a lot
of trauma in junior High because of the bullying and
some really serious surgeries that I had, and I developed
a massive anxiety problem. Probably would have been diagnosed with
something if I had ever known that was even what

(51:07):
was happening. And so I do think that there is
a reason why I'm getting dropped off at that house.
I think there's something on, some unfinished business there, so
to speak. But this mall world is very bizarre. But
let me just let me just go and thank you
for allowing me to speak on this so long, because

(51:27):
I think there's a lot of people who think I've
never had sleep paralysis. So I've never had this kind
of spiritual warfare. I'm not on the little list where
the demons come after me at night. I don't have nightmares.
I sleep like a baby. I don't remember my dreams.
The reason why it's important to understand that the mall
world is all a part of this is for the
very reason I'm going to say now, I'm not saying

(51:48):
that it's not a simulation, or that they aren't information gathering,
or it isn't some sort of a testing or a learning,
you know, simulator. It very well could be. But what
I am starting to realize because of all of the
UFO abduct thee experiencers I've been interviewing and talking to,
and some of the books I've recently read, is I

(52:09):
also believe that the mall world could be a extravagantly
complex screen memory. And so I'll define the term here.
Screen memory was originally a UFO term, but I believe
that it also applies in sleep paralysis, and it's when
you wake up and you have a memory of what

(52:34):
you saw. And again I'm not pushing this, it's not
a part of my worldview, but a lot of times,
when UFO abductees go under regression therapy or they're hypnotized,
what they remember and what they see under hypnosis is different,
and they realize that what they remember their memory is
actually a screen memory. It is not really the facts.

(52:56):
And this is why a lot of UFO experiencers will
talk about I was driving down the road and I
saw a four foot owl in the road. I saw
a four foot squirrel in the road. That's a screen memory.
What they're actually seeing is a four foot gray but
their mind is being manipulated to remember an animal because
the gray is masking behind it. If you want to

(53:20):
take the theory of a screen memory and apply it
to their dreamscape, when you think about all of the
people out there who are willingly desirous to go into
the astral realm, the back rooms, the mall world, they
want a reality shift into their Harry Potter world or
whatever world that they're shifting to. Is it possible? And

(53:41):
this is just a theory, This is just in the
infancy stages of theorizing. Here, guys, I haven't written a PhD.
You doctorate on this, right, But here's the deal. If
if the mall world is nothing more than a screen memory,
a distraction, a false memory of where we were. The

(54:09):
UFO abductees, when they talk about screen memories, they'll talk
about I had a dream that I was at my
grandma's house, or I had a dream that I was
at Disney World. But some of them, they will they
will come out of their their trance and they will
have a flicker of a memory where I wasn't at
Disney World. I was in a laboratory. I was in
a dumb like an underground military base. I actually wasn't

(54:32):
at my grandma's house. I was on a table with
grays around me. So if that's what a screen memory is,
if this mall World or any of these other places
that people project to or shift to are just it's
just elaborate fakery. It is a memory of a dream,

(54:54):
but it really was just a veil that was put
up in our mind so that we didn't know where
we really were. Then that potentially means if you're in
the mall World or you're shifting, and there's a lot
of people that are doing this and they're having a
blast and they think these places are awesome and they
have so much fun and whatever, it could be a

(55:19):
trap because if we're coming back from these places with
no memory of where we really were or who we
were really interacting with, then we're never going to be
able to pinpoint if we have interfaced with astral beings
or demonic beings. And if we don't remember those encounters,

(55:44):
and we don't remember what they have gotten us to
eat or drink, if we don't remember potentially an experiment
or a procedure or a ritual or a way that
we partook in. If we don't remember what we said,
if we don't remember if we gave them legal permissions

(56:07):
or an invitation, if we don't remember engaging in any
sort of covenant with them. This is where I believe
we get such a disconnect, especially in the church. We've
got Christians who born and raised in a Christian home,

(56:27):
never done anything wrong, you know what I mean. Obviously
we all do something wrong, but you know, they're they're
the perfect youth group graduates. They don't drink or smoke
or swear or have sex or listen to rock and
roll music, you know, and they don't play cards and
dance and wear makeup, and yet they are tormented with
mental illness, high anxiety, depression, oppression. They struggle with connecting

(56:53):
with God or having affections for Christ or longing for
you know, for heaven one days. Sort of this like
zombie like crawl through all of the things. That is
our duty to do as Christians. Why is there a disconnect?
Is it just our trauma? Is it just part of

(57:14):
the fallen nature? Is it just the sin? Or are
there interactions that we have had in these spaces that
we don't remember, where we have given legal permission to
entities to observe us, torment us, follow us around and

(57:38):
we don't always know we're there. You know, a lot
of people think, well, I've never seen anything paranormal in
my life, so they're not bugging me. But it's not
always paranormal activity, guys. Sometimes it's incurable autoimmune diseases, anxiety,
the constant sabotaging of every attempt to be in a relationship,

(57:59):
the things that are more on the obscure end of
the spectrum when we talk about spiritual warfare, and a
lot of times we don't ever come to the bottom
of it because there are things in our real life
that could totally account for those things. You know, if
someone was assaulted on their way home from from school

(58:24):
one day, it would make sense why they would have
trouble trusting, you know, trusting a man or getting into
a relationship, and so we don't often attribute things to
spiritual warfare if they have a real world equivalent that
makes sense. And I know for most of my life,
everything that was going on in my life with anxiety
or depression, or trust issues or commitment issues or you know,

(58:48):
things that made me uncomfortable, all of it perfectly tied
back to all of the surgeries I had, all of
the hospitals I was in, all of the teasing I
got in school. So I never explore further because it
all made sense the way that it already was. And
so my attempt here isn't to get everybody out there
freaked out or scared to go to sleep or thinking that,

(59:10):
oh man, I'm getting messed with by demons every single
time I go to bed. I am just trying to
create an awareness that this war that's been going on
probably since the beginning of time behind the veil, in
the spiritual realm, between God and his enemies and the
fallen ones, that I do think that this we are

(59:34):
kind of canon fodder in that war. And even though
we don't see all the players and we don't see
what's happening, we are to a degree canon fodder in
this war that is ongoing. And I think that when
we are naive or we strip the supernatural aspects out
of the Bible, or we don't want to talk about
the devil, or we don't want to talk about spiritual warfare,
or we believe that because Jesus died, this stuff can't

(59:57):
happen to us, or because we became a Christian, this
stuff can't happened to us. A lot of people, unfortunately,
think that praying to receive Jesus into their heart is
this like magic wand that wards off all spiritual warfare
for the rest of their life. And I'll end on
this note. It's interesting to me that Peter, who, by

(01:00:19):
the way, wrote his book after the death and resurrection
of Jesus Christ, so what he was writing about was
still in play after the resurrection. He said, be sober minded,
be vigilant your adversary. The devil prowls around like a
roaring lion, seeking someone to devour. And what's really fascinating

(01:00:39):
to me, whether it's intentional or witting or not, is
I think that we Christians tend to, whether we realize
it or not, we think of spiritual warfare as what
happens to us when we're awake, and we kind of
think we're safe when we're in bed and we've said
our prayers and we're sleeping, and everything's just a dream.

(01:01:00):
And well, Satan can't do anything while I'm asleep. That's
not fair, that's not playing fair. I'm not conscious, I'm
not loocid when I sleep. That's not fair. But here's
the deal. There might be something even more significant to that,
inspired by the Holy Spirit metaphor that Peter chose. A
lion hunts its prey in the dark at night when

(01:01:23):
everything's sleeping, because that's how he can get his prey.
He catches them unawares. And so this idea that we
can't be attacked or caught off guard or experienced spiritual
warfare during the nocturnal hours is unrealistic. And if we
stick our head in the sand, it might feel better

(01:01:44):
and it might be less scary. But you know what
they say about sticking your head in the sand, your
butt straight up and they are ready to get kicked. Right.
So there's so much more I could say about this.
I'll give one more biblical example. These are the Disciples,
so obviously they had a pretty good teacher. They probably
knew a lot more about the realities of scripture than

(01:02:07):
we ever will right when it was the fourth watch
of the night, which I think the fourth watch of
the night starts at dawn at about six in the morning,
before the sun has risen. It's still dark. It's the
tail end of the third watch of the night, which
is also known as the witching hour, the midnight to
three am. So they're out on a boat and it's
dusky and it's still dark, and you can imagine if

(01:02:29):
you have ever been on the water at that time
of day. There's fog rising up off the water, and
it's very kind of spooky time of the day. And
they see Jesus walking on the water towards them. What's
their immediate explanation, It's a ghost. They don't say, oh,
it's Jesus, that guy with all the superpowers who can

(01:02:49):
walk on the water, or immediately they don't come up
with some sort of spiritual or biblical or Torah related answer.
They don't even say it's satan. They don't even say
it's a demon. They say it's a ghost, which means
that culturally they understood that bizarre things could happen before

(01:03:11):
the sun rose. And so I think that we are
naive when we just think that we can't blanche our
our head to toe armor and can never the devil
can never get an arrow through the cracks in our
armor simply because we go to church or we pray

(01:03:32):
to prayer. There is work to be done even after
we become a Christian, not because the name or the
blood or the presence of Jesus is somehow failing, but
because we are failing, and we need to constantly be
sober minded and vigilant because we're commanded in scripture to
be so. And this doesn't mean be sober minded and

(01:03:53):
vigilant twelve hours a day and don't worry about it
the other twelve.

Speaker 1 (01:04:03):
Man, there is just no limits to the bombs you're dropping.
Oh my god, Kyle, I've watched her absolutely eviscerate your
mind and it was beautiful to happen. Watch happened, because
she did the exact same thing to me when I
listened to that episode of The Confessionals. Man, But I

(01:04:25):
just I want you to take a second cal and
explain to me what you were thinking when she was
pretty much describing your childhood nightmare.

Speaker 3 (01:04:38):
Yeah, So that was that was the trip.

Speaker 4 (01:04:40):
That part was a trip because not only with my
childhood nightmares. Was there a lot of similarities to what
you were saying, VICKI, but also dreams that I have.
But the dreams that I've had recently, one of the
things you said being lost and then your phone, Like

(01:05:03):
my biggest thing is is I'll be out doing something.
Usually my kids and my fiance are involved, and whenever
we get separated, whenever I'm separated from my fiance, mainly,
but I'm always the first thing I'm like, it's okay,

(01:05:24):
I have a phone.

Speaker 3 (01:05:25):
I'll just pick up the phone and make a phone call.

Speaker 4 (01:05:29):
And I'm sometimes I'm able to make the call, but
when I'm when I'm in the middle of the call
is where things go awry. The signal gets messed up
and everything is jumbled, and my brain just can't handle
it because I'm like, what is wrong? Like my phone
is here, okay, cool, I'll go ahead and power it

(01:05:52):
down and I'll power it back up, and that is
when the panic starts starts to set in. Another thing
that we didn't necessarily get into is that my legs
won't work. Like they work, but they don't work. It's
like I can't taking a step or two is just

(01:06:13):
almost impossible motion. Yes, like I'm in slow motion, like
my legs weigh like ten thousand million pounds.

Speaker 2 (01:06:21):
Yep.

Speaker 3 (01:06:22):
I can't. I can't go, I can't move.

Speaker 4 (01:06:25):
I can't Like I'll take a step and then I'll
almost like fall on my leg will give out. And
those are like the most scary dreams to me. And
it's because I'm not in control. I'm not able to
do what. But it's weird because when I'm in that
state of mind, I guess I know, I feel like
I'm gonna be okay because I have trust that my

(01:06:47):
phone's going to work. I have trust that my legs
are going to work, that I can get myself out
of this situation. However that's never the case. And waking
up I do this happens quite off. And I mean,
now that I think about it, but like I'll wake
up and my heart is racing and I'm sweating like profuse, and.

Speaker 3 (01:07:09):
It takes me. It takes me a while to like
calm down and a mellow out from that. And I
know I share I share this.

Speaker 4 (01:07:20):
Actually I guess I don't share it as much as
I probably share with my fiance, but she'll share with
me when she's having these crazy dreams and it's yeah,
it's it's just crazy. It's just all of this is
it's it's it's a lot, it's a lot to take in.
But I can't wait to dig down deeper into.

Speaker 3 (01:07:39):
Into all of this. And one of the things when
you were mentioning when when you were mentioning the.

Speaker 4 (01:07:46):
Mall places, the back rooms, all this stuff, and you
were describing how you know you will be in there
and then you have like this jungle gym and you're
on the jungle gym and it'll get bigger and all
these things happened.

Speaker 3 (01:07:57):
The first thing that came to my mind was David
Bowie Labyrinth.

Speaker 2 (01:08:02):
Oh yeah, Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:08:05):
That was like, I'm like, did they know.

Speaker 4 (01:08:08):
Something like when they were producing this, because the movie Labyrinth,
there's a couple scenes where like the stairs are upside.

Speaker 3 (01:08:18):
Down and people are like that just clicked with me.

Speaker 4 (01:08:22):
I'm like, this is like everything you're talking about, But
I never thought to make that connection between what you're
saying in Labyrinith.

Speaker 2 (01:08:31):
Yeah. What's really interesting, this is very recent. This was
within the last month. Realizing that we have a free
will in this space and we are in control now
they want us to believe that we're not in control,
and that's why they disorient us. And it gets to

(01:08:51):
the point where when we interface with these things, even
if we don't see them, we seem to know in
many cases what we're supposed to do, what's required of us.
Drink this, eat this. And sometimes they come to us
in the form of human beings, and we're being told
to do things. And when we recognize we are actually
in control in these dreams, and when we exert our

(01:09:14):
free will, the atmosphere in these dreams will often shift.
You will feel sort of this disembodied sense of almost
wrath upon you. Let me give you an example. I
had just the weirdest dream. This was within the last month,

(01:09:37):
and I was in like a gymnasium, like it kind
of like your high school gym, but way bigger. And
I understood that there were bleachers on both sides, but
I couldn't see them. Everything was in shadow. It was
almost like I was in a spotlight. And me and
two other people, which were both male, were standing on

(01:10:01):
a tight rope that was like a foot off the ground,
and so we're just standing there and we're kind of
balancing because you know, you're on a wire, and I
was right by, like the end of it, so I
was kind of holding onto the bar. And then they
handed all of us probably like maybe an eight pound

(01:10:24):
medicine ball. It looked like a bowling ball, but there
were no holes in it. It was solid and it
was heavy, so I had to let go. And I
had a little bit of anxiety at that point. And
I'm holding this medicine ball and it's now getting harder
to balance on this wire. And again, you guys, these
dreams that they're just weird scenarios, which is why it's like,
is this a simulation? What are they doing here? Because

(01:10:46):
this is like who comes up with this stuff? It's
so weird. But at this point, I started to get
a little anxious, so I was going to just step
off of the wire and I looked down and all
of a sudden, I realized I was twenty feet in
the air. This head boom, you know. So now I
freak out because now I better keep my balance because
I'm I'm going to die if I I'll fall on

(01:11:07):
the cement floor. And I'm holding this medicine ball and
I'm kind of taking deep breasts and I'm praying, and
I'm like, oh you God, help me, help me, don't
let me fall, don't let me fall. So then there's
like a guy you know, down there with like the
gym teacher like megaphone and gives instruction to the guy
on the end that he can drop his medicine ball
and climb down. So he drops his medicine ball and

(01:11:28):
he now there's a ladder on the poles and he's
climbing down this ladder and I'm like, okay, good relief
is in sight. You're fine. They then get through the
megaphone and they tell the second guy, you can drop
your medicine ball and come down. So he drops his
medicine ball and he climbs down the ladder. So I'm
just waiting now for the pattern to you know, culminate.
It's going to be my turn. And I'm standing there

(01:11:50):
and standing there and I don't get I don't get
the release to go, so I'm getting nervous again, and
so I'm starting to lose my balance. So I I
called down and I say, can I drop my medicine ball?

Speaker 3 (01:12:04):
No?

Speaker 2 (01:12:06):
Well why not? They got to no, So I give
it a few more seconds and I'm like can I
drop the medicine ball? No, And all of a sudden,
a righteous indignation rises up in my mind and I
realized the ridiculousness of this situation. Who in the world

(01:12:27):
said I had to stand on a tight rope with
a medicine ball? This is ridiculus. Who are these people?
So I took the ball and I didn't just drop it.
I like threw it down in defiance, like this is ridiculous.
And I think I even said that, And I climbed
down and I was like stomping off, walking out of
the gym, and I was surrounded by two like what

(01:12:52):
I would describe as like men in black right, And
they didn't touch me, but they're like, you are in
so much trouble. I said, don't care, and they're like, no,
you got to get back there right now, so and
so at bubble, I said, I don't have to do
anything I don't want to do, and then bam, the

(01:13:14):
dream disappeared and I was in another section of the
mall world starting all over. So it was very fascinating
to me. It was like it was another level of
understanding this world, and that is that we don't have
to play their stupid game. We don't have to we

(01:13:37):
don't have to do what they say. We don't have
to Alice in Wonderland drink me, eat me. You know,
we don't. We don't have to eat your stupid little
Alice in Wonderland cake. And we don't have to cross
over the threshold and your weird creepy places, and we
don't have to comply. And now, granted I got off,
I got off good. On that dream. There was another dream,

(01:14:00):
and I detailed this one at length, so I won't
do it again. I think you can. I think it
was on the very first episode of The Confessionals I
was on I give the whole entire astral dream. In
that dream, I also very defiantly said I do not consent,
and things got exponentially more difficult for me after that.

(01:14:20):
So it's not always when you say I do not
consent that I'm not saying they might not try to
rough you up a little bit more. But we don't
have to consent, and we can call on the name
of Jesus. And when we call on the name of Jesus,
we will typically get out of the scenario or we
will wake up. But what I'm coming to find out.
And I think this is very important is when we

(01:14:42):
come out of a dream, we have no sense of
time in the dream world. I don't know if five
seconds went by between that dream ending and my waking up,
or if two hours went by, and I had a
whole nother dream cycle that I don't remember. And so
when I wake up now, I don't ever take for
granted that I remembered everything that I needed to remember.

(01:15:04):
And I will just I will just do my due diligence,
and I will pray when I wake up, and Father,
I don't remember everything that I dreamed. I don't understand
this dream world. I don't know where I was or
what I did, but you do. And then I cite
back to Numbers chapter thirty, which is not one hundred

(01:15:24):
percent apples to apples, but in Numbers thirty it talks
about women who make oaths to God. And if you
are a married woman, or you're an unmarried virgin daughter
living with your father and probably uncle brother, whoever, on
the day that that father or brother or husband hears

(01:15:49):
of the oath you made, if he is in disagreement
with that, he can disavow you of that oath. On
your behalf. And the cool thing about the father and
the husband being the people that can, according to the law,
unbind you from an oath is that in our New

(01:16:11):
Testament era, now that we're living in, we all have
a father in heaven, and we all have a bridegroom,
Jesus Christ. And so it doesn't matter if you're married, divorced,
male or female, single, never been married, divorced, it doesn't matter.
We have two advocates in the spiritual realm. We have
a father, and we have a bridegroom. All of us,

(01:16:33):
according to the law, can can come to the Lord
every morning and say, did I make an oath in
my sleep? Did I give invitation to some sort of
vampiric entity? If so, as my father as my bridegroom,
disavow me of any oath I've made in the name
of Jesus. And so we don't have to be afraid

(01:16:55):
of these things, but we had better be aware of them,
because if it's not happening to you, it might be
happening to your kid, It might be happening to your grandchild.
If you're a teacher or a youth group leader or
a pastor, it might be happening to someone who you
care about. And just like Kyle, with you when you

(01:17:15):
said I have this, I had this dream when I
was a kid and I was in the mall, and
I picked up immediately on those those cues because I
know the things to look for. If we as parents, guardians, grandparents, pastors,
youth group, if we understand the cues and the symbols
when our kids talk, if we can pick up on

(01:17:39):
enough of those things, we're going to know this is
they're being targeted, and we're going to we're going to
be able to give them the skill set to to
find their way out of these labyrinths, as you said, Kyle,
And because if we just blow everything that our kids
or our wife in many cases, I know I've talked

(01:18:00):
to a lot of women where the husbands are like,
they say, my husband just doesn't take this seriously. He's
a Christian, he believes in spiritual warfare, but he just
kind of rolls his eyes when I talk about my dreams.
And this is normal. This is by design that they
always like, going all the way back to the beginning
of the show, they design all of this stuff so
we look nuts when we talk about it and so
I don't even blame the people that think we're nuts,

(01:18:24):
but we have to at least account for the fact
that this is real. We don't have to find Satan
under every rock and in every dream, but as a church,
we had better start acknowledging the supernatural again because things
are about to get way weirder than they've ever been
in the next few years and what they're unfolding, these

(01:18:45):
agendas and the tech and everything that they're doing overtly
now we'd better get up to speed.

Speaker 3 (01:18:52):
Yeah, I feel like those.

Speaker 4 (01:18:55):
I feel like, at the very least these conversations that
you said, they're very important, and they're important because they're
conversations that need to be had. But I think most
importantly is to as you said, is being able to
recognize what is going on. And I think the ultimate
goal is is to be able to help others that
are going through this and to be able to provide

(01:19:16):
them with the tools needed. And I know how important
that is because Hank. You did that exact thing for
Hank and when he wrote me after listening to the
show that you were on. I've heard Hank get excited

(01:19:37):
about a lot of things.

Speaker 3 (01:19:40):
This one was like game changing, life changing, and so.

Speaker 4 (01:19:48):
Yeah, I thank you for this conversation, and I thank
you for all the time and the effort and the
research that you have done on your end to have
been able to grow and get to the point that.

Speaker 3 (01:20:01):
You're at now to where you're able to help a
guy like myself and a guy like Hank. What do
you think, Hank?

Speaker 2 (01:20:11):
Yeah, Hank, I'd love to hear what do you think?
The point of view?

Speaker 1 (01:20:17):
I mean, I just I'm I'm such a fan of yours.
I'm just such a fan. Let me let me, let
me tell you a little story. And to tell this story,
we've got to go back to about a week and
a half, two weeks before Easter. Okay, Trebles Garcia of
the Paranoid Radio podcast shout out to him a good

(01:20:39):
friend of the show. He's been in the comments with
us all night. You've been blowing his mind along with ours.
He invited me and Kyle on his show for a chat,
and it was either the weekend of Easter the weekend
before Easter that we were going to do this recording.
And initially I was like, you know, Kyle it We're

(01:21:00):
gonna have something to bring to the table, you know,
We're not just gonna let it fly from the hip.
And so initially it was just gonna be an Easter episode,
but like everybody and their mama's done a Easter episode,
and like, how it's not really anything Christians should be doing.
And so I was listening to an episode of Trebles,

(01:21:24):
ironically enough, and he had a guest on and literally
like tossing a pebble into a raging river, in the
middle of their conversations, the phrase liminal spaces was uttered
once and it was never said again. It was giving
those spotlight, but those two words like wrong, like a

(01:21:49):
bell in my head, spaces. I know this, this feels familiar,
but I need to know what this is. And and
immediately I messaged Colin. I was like, dude, forget Easter,
We're gonna do liminal spaces. Do some research. And I
started to do some research. And I need to put

(01:22:11):
that in some air quotes because what I called research
was literally the least amount of research possible. I went
to Spotify and I hit the search button and I
clicked liminal spaces and the first thing that popped up
is what I clicked on, and it was an episode
of Tony Merkle's Confessionals that had cute and liminal spaces

(01:22:34):
was just one of like five things in the headline
of the show. And I've never listened to Tony Merkle's
Confessionals before. I've only heard you a few times when
it's been like you and Janet and Heidi and you know, Julia.

(01:22:57):
You know, y'all just do y'alls little ladies episode and
y'all get to chewing the cud. Not I've never really
listened to your sleep paralysis spiel as it were, no
disrespect and you know, because to call what you do
with spiel is selling it, under selling it greatly. But

(01:23:18):
I listened to this episode and you talk to Tony
about how we can become attacked and our consciousness can
sometimes be hijacked or tortured on the spot, and how
it'll happen during the rim state of sleep most of

(01:23:39):
the time, and how sometimes we can go through these
things in our sleep and come out on the other side,
wake up and have zero memory of it. And I
come from I come from the Church of Christ background.
I don't know how much you know about the Church
of Christ, but they don't like to let people in

(01:24:02):
on the fact that they're spiritual warfare, staying away from
the devils, like not going to prom because you might
have a simple thought, you know, it's not, Yeah, hey,
you you were in a battlefield every day of your

(01:24:22):
life and every moment, whether it's waking or not, you
are spent in the midst of a war. And so
this is this is this whole spiritual warfare, especially during
sleep is is it's something new because I've been over
the last couple of years, Like I love Jason and

(01:24:44):
christophord Operation Redhill, and they're they're great friends of mine.
I consider them friends. I don't know if they consider
me a friend. I'm just playing they do, of course
they're they're great and they've been expanding my my my
views on what I believe, and especially when it comes
to like this whole idea of the Satanic control matrix.

(01:25:06):
It's completely foreign before I started listening to them, and
so slowly like I'm starting to open up two different
views of what it's true and what's not. And when
you were starting to speak to Tony about these things,
it was just like that last piece of the puzzle

(01:25:27):
fell into place and it just made so much sense,
and you started talking about how you can specifically pray
for protection in your sleep or you know, for when
you're in your sleep, and to be delivered from covenant
or contracts that you may have entered into and not

(01:25:48):
have any knowledge of. So before the first that was
on a Wednesday. Before that night, pretty much every for
at least the last ten years, I'm talking a long time,
sleep has been my enemy. I can't lay down and

(01:26:11):
just fall asleep. I've got to replay Hank's worst hits
from the last two decades, yep. And then if I
can make it through that, it's not really sleep that
I do. It's more of just laying there unconscious. And
then when I wake up, most of the time I'm
so covered in sweat that we've got to wash the bedding.

(01:26:32):
My elbows, my shoulder, my back is locked up. I
feel significantly worse when I woke up than when I
went to sleep. And I work a very manual, labor,
physically intensive job, so my rest is vital for me.
I mean, I don't have very many down days during

(01:26:54):
the year. I'm not getting any younger, you know, So,
so sleep really wasn't my friend. Never remember dreams ever ever,
and if I do, they're pretty horrible. Before that Wednesday

(01:27:16):
night that I heard your episode, the only dream in
the last five years that I can recall having was,
which wasn't too far before I.

Speaker 3 (01:27:28):
Heard your episode.

Speaker 1 (01:27:29):
Was in my dream, I got a phone call that
my mom was in an accident and she didn't make it,
and I'm trying to rush to my mom. Woke up
almost hysterical because I lost my dad to coach, you know,
several years ago. Mom's pretty much all I got left
as far you know, I'm a mama's boy. Anyway, So

(01:27:50):
like that one hit me to the point where as
soon as I knew my mom was up in the morning,
I called her just so I could hear her voice.
It's like, even though I knew she was fine, I
had to hear. But anyway, so dreams, even if I
did remember on my rather not. But I wake up
these mornings I feel horrible. No recollection that I've gone

(01:28:12):
through anything other than the fact that I have physical
signs that something just happened. A lot of times I'd
wake up gasping for breath, like can't breathe, and at
the time I was packa day Marlboro Red smoker. So
you know, I'm thinking, boy, these cigarettes are killing me
a lot sooner than later. But I'm thinking, hey, you're

(01:28:35):
thirty four. You're not suffocating at thirty four. I'm sure
they're not doing you any favors by any means. But
like a pack of day cigarette Habit's not gonna have
that effect on Not in my mind, it didn't make
sense that a pack of day habit is leading me
to wake up because I'm waking up because I can't breathe,

(01:29:00):
Like not just waking up and realizing I can't breathe,
but like the fact that I can't breathe is what
woke me up. Sleep is not my friend at this
point in my life. And then I hear your episode
and I'm just like texting Kyle, like, dude, this is
amazing child's information. YadA YadA. And I went home that

(01:29:23):
night and for the like, and I've prayed like I
normally pray before I go to sleep, but it's not
a It was never for protection during my sleep, you know,
it's never for deliverance from anything. But I did it
that night kind of like just like how you said,

(01:29:43):
I prayed. You know, God, I need you to to
send your light, send your angels into my home. Filled
my house with so much light that you expel any
forces of evil, any forces of the enemy. I need
you to protect me. I need to deliver me from
any covenants or contracts that I may have entered into.

(01:30:04):
Dear Lord, if I'm about to enter into battle and
my sleep, wake me up so that I can pray
to you and get ready for battle. Thursday morning, five
thirty in the morning, alarm's going on. I feel great.
I slept through the night, I'm not sweaty, my body

(01:30:30):
doesn't hurt. I did not wake up locked up. I
felt refreshed for the first time. And I can't tell
you how many years immediately changed my life.

Speaker 2 (01:30:46):
Oh my God.

Speaker 1 (01:30:47):
And so I messaged Kyle and I'm like, dude, I
don't I don't know what to do about this man,
because this isn't something that I was raised to believe in.
But this woman said this, and it made so much
sense to me in this moment. And I tried to Colin,
that's happened. Like I said, dude, this worked. But I'm
not naive enough to think that one night it's something happening.

(01:31:11):
So I'm gonna do it again tonight and we're gonna see.
And it's thinking I've done this every night since and
I and I promise you that I have. I mean,
praise God. I have a whole new life. I have
a whole new life because I actually recuperate in my sleep.

(01:31:34):
Now I don't wake up feeling like I just got
drugged through help and like, don't I don't know what
was happening to me because I had zero I have
zero memory. Like maybe I'm lucky enough to not remember
what was happening. Yeah, but like it's kind of disconcerting

(01:31:54):
to know that something was happening to me, but I
don't know what it was. But all I know is
as soon as I ask God to stop it, he
stopped it. So, like I said, this happened the week
of like right out there at the week of Eastern
Man Treble's is still watching. He's another witness. Kla is
my witness. Like this is I've told this story probably

(01:32:17):
three or four times now behind this microphone, and it's
I'm not a detail will ever change because it's the
God's on this truth. And so like I told you,
I'm a big fan of OARP. I support their support
them on Patreon and they do a weekly or not
a weekly, but a monthly Patreon supporters call where we

(01:32:37):
all get together and we get to hang out with
them for a couple hours and talk to them and
ask questions and stuff. And when I went through all this,
I messaged Jason and Christopher and I was like, I
cannot wait to talk to y'all about this, because this
is somebody's got to hear this other than Colin Trebles.

(01:32:58):
I got to tell somebody because this is amazing and
it led me to like this has led me down
such a crazy renewal of my faith and getting that
close to God and me and Kyle and and our
buddy Gavin that does does shows when me sometimes during
the week, Like we do Bible studies on here now,

(01:33:19):
like that's half of what we do on this show
is Bible studies. Right. Me and Kyle have quit drinking.
We've we've got my boy's trouble quit drinking. We were
doing our best not to cuss. Me and my wife
have started praying daily with our kids in a circle,

(01:33:40):
like we like this is this is powerful stuff. But
but last week was the was the monthly O RP meeting,
and this is how this is to this day, this
this amazing chain of events is still unfolding. There was

(01:34:02):
a guy on there. His name was Jeremy. Never seen
this guy in one of these calls before, and Jason
and Christopher A ultimately asked me to talk about what
I just told you. Yeah, And after the call was over,

(01:34:25):
Jeremy messaged me on Instagram and he said, Hey, man,
I know this is random and you don't know me,
but you know I was just on that call with you,
and I can't thank you enough for saying what you
just said because I've never heard anything like that, and
I think that's exactly what I'm going through. And then

(01:34:46):
we talked a little bit and then he messages me
back the next day with the screenshot from his daughter
because she's been going through something similar and they had
never thought to pray for protection in their sleep, and
so now this guy and his daughter are being delivered

(01:35:06):
from similar type of attacks, all because on some random
off chance that me and Kyle actually want to have
a specific topic to talk about instead of just talking
out of the side of our necks. I hear Treble
mentioned liminal spaces once in the five thousand words, he

(01:35:30):
said in thirty seconds, because Trebles talk so fast, it's incredible.
I love you, Troubles. I'm not picking at you. Just
you tell me how God didn't make all this happen.
You tell me how God didn't make all this happen.
I mean, what logical sense does it make that all

(01:35:53):
of this just fell into place and lives are being
saved because of it, Like this is not a this
is no joke, like this isn't for cloud. I could
care less about a podcast or any kind of fame.
Like when when Jeremy sent me that screenshot that his

(01:36:17):
daughter man receives some relief because of something I said,
Like that's crazy, man, Like that's crazy, that's crazy. I'm
not supposed to be able to have that kind of
influence or power on somebody's life. And it's just an
all glory be to God, because I have no explanation

(01:36:41):
for how any of this happened outside of it had
to have been his will.

Speaker 3 (01:36:48):
Man, that's a that to me is just insane. It
really honestly isn't to me, that is.

Speaker 4 (01:36:58):
I don't know, man, it's like in a good positive way,
Like I don't want to say he be GB's I
feel like that's kind of but but yeah, I mean
I'm gonna it just like you know, make make the
hair kind of stand up and give you the goosebumps
in a good positive way where it's like whoa, whoa,
whoa whoa, especially like you think about the amount of

(01:37:20):
people that have been affected. It's just it's wild. It's wild,
and it keeps going. It just keeps going.

Speaker 3 (01:37:27):
It's it's sorry, my dog just came in, but it's
just it's crazy.

Speaker 2 (01:37:33):
To me.

Speaker 3 (01:37:33):
It's a blessing, absolute blessing.

Speaker 2 (01:37:39):
It is wild. So first of all, Hank, thank you
so much for you know, because you you DMed me
and obviously you can't say much in a DM there
the spaces is so limited, but so hearing the whole story.

Speaker 1 (01:37:54):
It is so.

Speaker 2 (01:37:56):
Humbling. You know, my book is been out three years,
but it was you know, two three years in the
making before you know. So I'm five or six years
down this journey and I just want to give you
a couple background points that are going to show how

(01:38:20):
just how intentional God was for even five years before
this happened to you to lay all the groundwork for this.
I mean, the way that he fights for for us.
You know, when I started writing my book, I was

(01:38:42):
battling fear. There was all sorts of stuff going on.
What if I can't write this book, what if it stinks?
What if nobody likes it?

Speaker 1 (01:38:54):
What?

Speaker 3 (01:38:55):
What? You know?

Speaker 2 (01:38:55):
But the thing that was the most crippling, you know,
and I know it was the enemy putting vain imaginations
in my mind. But it was almost like a taunt
in my head. So I went to I went to college.
I got a bachelor's in writing English with a writing emphasis.

(01:39:16):
I wanted to be a writer since I was ten
years old. My mom was a writer. I would always
get a's and writing classes. I like writing stories and poetry, right.
And the taunt that went through my head for the
entire three years as I was writing and editing and
working on this book was the enemy that said in
my head, you can put together pretty sentences, but you

(01:39:39):
will never change anyone's life. In other words, it's just
you have a little talent for putting sentences together that
sound pretty, and from a grammatical English standpoint, it will
be a well written book. But if it doesn't have power,
who cares? And I was ormented by this. Now let me.

(01:40:03):
Fast forward to that Liminal Spaces episode you were talking
about with Tony. I was actually at his studio for that.
I was in studio for that, and I had been
anticipating it for so long, and I was looking so
forward to being there and meeting him in person. And
I think I believe Joel was on that episode as well,
and Joel as a friend, and I couldn't wait to
meet the two of them. And so I just had

(01:40:25):
so much anticipation for it that by the time I
actually got there, I was tired and sort of mentally
drained and nervous. And we didn't have anything planned because
Tony said, let's shoot from the hip and organic conversation
is the best list, and so I didn't really have
any sort of a concept of what we're going to
be talking about or anything. So I had no preparation.

(01:40:47):
And so I'm sitting there and this junior high spirit
came upon me. Okay, I'm saying that, you know, to
be funny, thoughts and feelings and emotions were going on
in my head that I haven't felt since junior High.
I was sitting there with Tony and Joel, and you know,
they have camaraderie, they know each other, they they've gone

(01:41:11):
out on a lot of you know, film making endeavors,
and they have shared experiences, and they both study the
same kind of things, and so it was almost like
I felt like the third wheel, right, And like, all
these guys are smart, they're so they're so polished, and
they've got this beautiful studio of all this equipment, and

(01:41:32):
I'm just this idiot and a T shirt, you know, like,
and it was all of these thoughts were coming down
on me, and it progressively got worse and worse and
worse through the whole show, to the point that when
the show was over, I really didn't even remember what
we even talked about or what I said. It was
the whole thing was a blur, and I left the

(01:41:53):
studio under a thick, dark cloud of oppression. And it
lasted three days, and the next morning I woke up
in a hotel room and I was freaking out, and
I texted both Tony and Joel and was like, we
can't air this episode. It's so terrible. I don't know

(01:42:15):
what I was talking about. People are going to think this.
There was something I said that I thought was gonna
be misunderstood, and all the trolls were gonna come out,
and I was gonna have to yeah, you know, and
they both let me.

Speaker 1 (01:42:27):
Let me pause you right there, because Kyle, I swear
to God just in case you or anybody else thinks
that Miss Vicky's lying. Right now, I'm looking at the
message she sent me back after I sent her three
and a half paragraph long tone on Instagram out of nowhere,

(01:42:49):
by the way, and she says that after we shot
that episode, I fell into a deep oppression for two
to three days. I even called Tony and asked him
not to air the episode because in my mind I
hadn't said anything in all Cats of Value and the
whole thing was a train ring. Now what you're mean

(01:43:12):
to telling me the one thing that has saved my life?
You didn't even like you pulled the plug one?

Speaker 2 (01:43:20):
What? I you know what? Hank? I Well, so, Tony
and Joel both talked me up the ledge. Oh don't
worry about no, no, no, you know, I was nervous
every every day that went by that that show didn't
go live. I was relieved and I I told Tony
this and he he just, oh, man, it was funny.

(01:43:43):
But I told him myself. I was even praying that
the audio would get like lost or something, and he's like,
you're trying to sabotage my show. It was so funny.
We were joking around, but I told him. I called
him after we talked and I said, dude, I said,
you're not going to believe it.

Speaker 3 (01:43:59):
That.

Speaker 2 (01:44:00):
Oh my gosh, you're not gonna believe it. I just
talked to this guy and Hank, it was so convicting
and humbling. I felt so I don't know what I felt.
I can't think of the word. But Hank, after I
talked to you, I was like, Jesus, I'm never gonna

(01:44:22):
question you ever again. Look, I'm a human being. I'm
not perfect. I'm not all knowing. I don't know every
single thing there is to know about this topic. Sometimes
I stick my foot in my mouth. Sometimes I misunderstood.
Sometimes I say things that you know, not meaning meaning to.
But that really stirs up a hornet's nest in social media,

(01:44:43):
and even the Christians think I'm an evil person. And
and you know, I got to work through all all
of that, right, we all do. Anyone who's online, you're
going to have trolls, right, But here's the deal. I
realized that it if Christ has chosen to use people
as imperfect and ridiculous as human beings, is the purveyors

(01:45:07):
of his great commission, that he realizes what he's dealing with.
And I wasn't chosen because I was articulate, or intelligent,
or wonderful, or I was chosen because I was willing.
And I remember the way that I got through the
fear of writing the book that it would be of
no value to people, as I started praying every day, God,

(01:45:30):
let this book bring glory to your name, Let it
expose the deeds of the devil, and let it set
captives free. And I've gotten a lot of emails from
people who are glorifying God. And I've gotten a lot
of emails from people who are pretty ticked off that
I'm exposing the deeds of the devil. And I know
the fruit will come whether they ever write to me

(01:45:52):
or not. But you were the culmination of five to
six years of I just wanted. I've been set free.
I want others to be set free. We do not
have to be harassed by these things. Sleep is a gift.
It's a gift, and it's being stolen from us. And

(01:46:16):
so I really learned a lot of very valuable lessons
since you sent me that DM in Instagram as well,
and I learned that it's not about if I did
a perfect podcast or you know other and the more
of these I do, it's so tempting to just dial

(01:46:37):
them in. And I even got convicted of that this
morning as I was doing my devotions, and it's like
every podcast I do, I need to throw myself on
my face and ask God speak through me, give me,
give me humility and wisdom, Like I can't just dial
these things in. It's not about how articulate I am.

(01:46:57):
And there's some days where the brainfall is really bad
and I'm groping for words or I say things that
I know I could have worded it better. None of
it matters. None of it matters. What matters is that
we as a body, as a family, you know, those
of us who are in Christ, we're going to spend

(01:47:18):
eternity together. We're brothers and sisters, and we are here
to encourage one another daily, to preach life to one another,
to hold each other up. And that's what it's all about.
It's not about the podcast or the book, or the
book sales or the numbers. It is about bringing glory

(01:47:42):
to the name of God and his son, exposing the
deeds of the devil, which I don't care how many
trolls I get. Exposing the deeds of the devil is
so gratifying because he's a liar and he gets to
destroy so many lives. And I love it when someone
wakes up and realizes and says, I want my life back,

(01:48:02):
and they get it back and they see the glory
price they have a testimony like you do, which is
just mind blowing, and then we get to help set
captives free, so it's amazing. I don't want you to
think this is a one sided thing, Hank. You know,
like you only know this story from your perspective, But
from my perspective, you're a key piece in my growth

(01:48:27):
and in my maturity and in my lesson learning as well,
like you are the first fruits of my labor.

Speaker 3 (01:48:35):
You.

Speaker 2 (01:48:36):
I mean, I've had other people write to me and
say wonderful things, but to think that someone's life not
only this is why it was so humbling. Your life
wasn't changed by my book that I wrote. Because I'm
an English major and I have a gift of writing.
Your life was changed on one of what I consider

(01:48:58):
to be one of the worst presentations I ever gave.
When I'm weak, he is strong. And if I'm going
to pray every single day that God gets the glory,
then I hope people are saved from the days that
I perform the worst, because then I don't have to
walk around thinking it was because of my book or
my ability to string sentences together nicely. Without him, we

(01:49:21):
are nothing, And when we are weak, he is strong.
And I'm just thank you so much for sharing that testimony, Hank.
I'm so happy for you and your family. And I man,
I don't even know how to put a period on that.

Speaker 1 (01:49:39):
This is, this is I mean, Kyle's been affected by this,
Travels has been affected by this, my kids and my
wife and that and Jeremy and his daughter, and I mean,
it just doesn't seem to stop. And I mean no
disrespect when I say this, but I wasn't even aware
you had a book. I was, like I said, I

(01:50:02):
literally did the least amount of research possible on two words.
That just that's how that's how I know, That's how
I know that that it was that it was God
the whole time. It's still it's God making, Like I

(01:50:24):
don't I don't know maybe why I had to live
like that for so long before he was finally like, Okay,
now you're ready. But for whatever reason, this was the
year that he was he figured I was ready to
and I guess he was right because because like literally

(01:50:44):
almost overnight that when I woke up that Wednesday, I
was just on the verge of tears all day because
I I was acutely aware of how much grace it
overnight I had, and I was even more acutely aware
of just how unworthy I was of it. And and

(01:51:08):
it's just it's normally, you know, to the people that
have listened to me and Kyle do this for through
the years, normally about the time that Hanks starts letting
tears rolls, about the time Hanks have made it through
a bottle. And I'm not, I'm not, I'm sober, you know,

(01:51:29):
I'm proud to say, but like, these are some of
the happiest tears that I've shed in the while, man,
because it's so strong. You know, it's easy to listen
to podcasts and listen to how God moves in other
people's lives, and you know, and it's I don't know

(01:51:52):
if jealousy is the right word or if it's like
a longing, like hey, you know I'm here too, God,
you know you can do some work over here. And
then it's like, but when it when it, when it happens,
how you feel like it should happen, I should say,
because I think he's always moving in our lives. It's

(01:52:14):
just we're not looking for it. But when it happens,
how you expect it or you think it should be,
you know, it hits a little harder. And and and
I and I haven't taken any of this for granted.

Speaker 3 (01:52:32):
I've I've.

Speaker 1 (01:52:35):
I've counted myself to be pretty thankful and and lucky
to have had this experience because I know just how
thin the bridge was that I had to walk just
to land here, and not knowing how thin the path
was while I was on it, you know, like I'm

(01:52:57):
because you were taught even before we got into my
whole part of all this, when you were talking to
Kyle about the mall world, like I've I think when
I was younger, my version of the mall world was
elementary school, empty elementary school or naked in the elementary school.

(01:53:19):
But when I got older, my recurring dream was just
you ever had a dream where geographically nothing looks like
where you are, but like you know where you are,
but it's really not like I can't expl like so

(01:53:41):
in this dream that I and I haven't had it
for a long time, and I'm kind of thankful because it,
I mean, it wasn't like a night tear, but I
never could understand it. But in my dream, I become
acutely aware that I'm in Mississippi. I'm from Mississippi originally,
but I just know I'm there, even though nothing is

(01:54:03):
the same, like it's altered landscape, and but that's where
I'm at. You know, I'm in Mississippi, and I'm driving,
and it's normally some type of not like a mini van,
like a soccer mom van, but like what you would
see on like a job site or something like you know,
one of the long work bands that you can fit

(01:54:24):
you know, a dozen people into whatever, and it's backed
to the gills and it's just a hodgepodge of people.
But there's always a mother and her son and a cop.
But the cop is never driving, and the cop is
never upfront. The cop is always in the back with people.

(01:54:44):
And as I'm driving and I'm looking back at these people,
I look through the back of the window and there's
three tornadoes that are chasing us. And I've always I'm
not scared of tornadoes in a sense of like if
the sky turns dark, I gotta go hide. I'm an
I'm a nut for weather, like you can ask Kyle,
Like the first movie I ever saw in their second

(01:55:06):
movie I ever saw in theaters was Twister. Like I
love tornadoes. I hate what they do, but I love
watching them and all that stuff. So like, I'm not
scared that the tornadoes are there. But what's really disconcerting
is they're not following tornado logic and I can't outrun them.

(01:55:27):
And there's three of them, and they're not like massive
wedge tornadoes. There's a little rope tornadoes. But there's three
of them and they're dancing around each other and I
can't outrun them no matter how hard I pushed this
van to go. And that's normally the extent of the
dream that I would have, Like I don't remember, you know,

(01:55:48):
if anything bad ever happened, you know, I can't say
the tornadoes ever caught up to us or whatever we
ever outran them. It's just the perpetual cat and mounts,
and that same scenario would play out throughout the years.
Like I said, I haven't had that dream in it
quite a while, but that's always stuck with me, that
that was the dream that I would have and I

(01:56:09):
never understood. Like you know, I'm sure there's several layers
of significance in it, Didney, but I can't pick them
out like I you know, uh, what's that what's that
verse in the Bible that tells you not to go
hanging around sous Sayers and all them people? So I'm
not trying to go get you know, by hey, you
want to interpret my dreams for me their house? Because

(01:56:33):
you know that that can lead down the slippery slope.
But you were just saying so much earlier when you
were talking about that, you know, the the dreamscape, and
it just it how we can be this far down
the rabbit hole of life and humanity and we still

(01:56:54):
can't wrap our hands around what the human brain does
or what a dream even is. Like it's because you
mentioned that maybe these liminal spaces like the mall room

(01:57:16):
or elementary school or wherever maybe they're on the same
plane of existence. It's like where you would go when
you astra project which was something that you know, coming
out of the Church of Christ, you're not supposed to

(01:57:38):
be able to do because there's not really a spiritual
side to this physical reality. But when I was twenty three,
I guess you could say, I have my great rebellion
and I ran as far away from God as possible,
trying to find truth, although as everybody in the conspiracy
theory world knows, all truth points back to God. But

(01:58:02):
I found myself in this spiritual chakra meditation and for months,
like three months straight, every night I would meditate and
would meditate with the soule purpose if if astral projection
is real, then by God, I'm gonna find it. I'm
gonna do it because you know, Ozzy Osborne said that

(01:58:25):
you know he can pass their mountains and watch him disappear.
You know, he can touch the sky, and that sounds fun.
And so one night I did it. I astraly projected
and we I made it into It was during the
winter because we had our fire, our heater going. We

(01:58:47):
have one of them fake log natural gas heaters and
everything else in the astral world was that dark, blue, hazy,
oh pekish tent. But that flame was very real and
it was very present even in that astral world. I've

(01:59:09):
told Kyle this before. I think there's something about fire
that can transcend dimensions. I'm not sure about that, but
because this is the only experience I've had with it,
but when I was in that astral world, that fire
was as real as if I was physically standing in
front of it, and it freaked me out to the

(01:59:30):
point where I just I went back to my body.
I was like, Okay, I get I checked, check that happened, yep,
And never did it again, never tried it again, because
I had the the the notion that I shouldn't be here.
I shouldn't be here. Like if you ask me, there's
nothing good that can come out of doing any of that,

(01:59:53):
and anything that can that presents itself to you as
good is it's not. It's a trap. It's general lock
bar from stalled to a trap. You know it's not good.
But I think there's there's so many places with reality

(02:00:16):
dreams with astral projections that overlap. Like you were saying
that early on in this episode, how between the technologies
and the frequencies and the and all these things that
we're ingesting on a daily basis, how we're becoming transmitters
and they want to put us in this data zombie
like state? Is this data state? Is this kind of

(02:00:42):
the same same state as like when you're driving down
the road and you zone out and next thing you know,
you're thirty forty miles down the road. You done took
a handful of turns, and you know you took the
turns because obviously you'd had to because you're here at
this point in your journey. But they're you checked out,
like there's zero memory of where you've just been for

(02:01:04):
the last thirty miles. You've just been in your head, Like,
is that kind of the same same data state? Is
that kind of the same same.

Speaker 2 (02:01:13):
Same you know, Yeah, that's kind of a cool analogy.
I mean, a data state is a deep sleep state,
So if we were in a data state, we would
be asleep and probably wreck the car. But this quasi
state that they're creating is very much like what you've
described and very similar to that where that's really scary

(02:01:36):
when you arrive at your destination and have no memory
of driving there, And I think we've all had that experience,
and you know, you can chalk that off to the
brilliance of our mind or the protection of the Holy Spirit,
or a little bit of both, but we all seem
to have that capacity where we can still sort of
function even when we're not fully in the present. Maybe

(02:01:58):
that's even sort of a mild form of temporary dissociation
in a way as well. And I know a lot
of people too who will have the ability to dissociate
even in their nightmares. I have talked to people.

Speaker 1 (02:02:19):
I had.

Speaker 2 (02:02:20):
A guy asked me once, when the alien grays show
up in the dream, do you have like a secret
compartment under your staircase where you can go a hide
until they leave. I'm like no, And I said, that's
fascinating because I remember my dreams. It never dawned to
me to go and hide somewhere. But that, to me,
that's a form of dissociation, where that core person is

(02:02:45):
in the dream, they're they're dissociating, and some other sort
of personalities maybe coming forward and remembering that. You know,
it doesn't have to be formal d I D. You know,
disassociative identity disorder. But it's like you just said, Hank,
we can sit here and speculate all night what we
will never probably understand until Jesus comes back our mind, brain,

(02:03:09):
conscience and dream world. Like it's still thousands and thousands
of years into this game. It's still a mystery to
even the experts.

Speaker 1 (02:03:21):
Kyle, I don't know about you. I am just like
I think, I'm just I'm not even going to go
turn the TV on. I'm just going to go sit
down on the couch and I'm just going to think
about life for a little bit and replay everything that
we've done listened to over the last two hours, because
I am just, oh crap, dude, all day long. Miss Vicky,

(02:03:46):
you are so amazing. I agree.

Speaker 3 (02:03:50):
I agree one thousand percent. And I'm looking forward to.

Speaker 4 (02:03:55):
Many more conversations for sure, because yeah, this one, I
do have a lot to to ponder, if you will.

Speaker 3 (02:04:01):
But this is, this has been amazing.

Speaker 4 (02:04:03):
And I was gonna text you earlier while we were
doing this, and I didn't, but I was gonna say, like,
this is by far, and this was within the first
like five minutes of hitting the record button, by far
my favorite my favorite shows, and.

Speaker 3 (02:04:21):
I think it's because of the.

Speaker 4 (02:04:26):
I think it's because of the severity of the subject
and I and I also think it's because of the
potential to help so many more people. I think that
is and I think as far as that goes, I mean,
I've always I've always thought my head like, if I
can just help one person, only one, doesn't need to

(02:04:48):
be more, just one person. I'm a happy camper. And
with something like this you have helped. I mean, it's
it's just going to keep trickling down. And I think
it's extremely beautiful. It's a there there really isn't even
a word for it. It's just so grand and so it's, yeah,

(02:05:08):
just so beautiful that everything is. The way that everything's
transpired is just mind boggling to me. It started off
again the phrase liminal spaces on on one of our
friends shows, and then Hank heard it, and then this,
you know, typing that into Spotify, and then you know,
coming across you on on the Confessionals podcast, and then

(02:05:31):
you know, Hank being able to to take that information
that he gathered from you and help another another, you know,
father and daughter, and now here we are talking and
you know, there might not be a lot of people
listening or watching live.

Speaker 3 (02:05:45):
But I guarantee this is gonna this.

Speaker 4 (02:05:48):
The show is going to blow up, and you know,
hopefully a couple more people are going to be affected
in a positive way by this, and then it's just
gonna it's just gonna keep trickling down.

Speaker 3 (02:05:56):
And yeah, this is amazing, thank you.

Speaker 2 (02:05:59):
Yeah it has been great. And I was thinking even
earlier when Hank was talking that there's a ripple effect
and there's no limit to how many ripples need to
go out. The ripple effect for this potentially could keep
going until Jesus comes back, because that's what Jesus does.

(02:06:22):
I mean, it's the same thing as feeding the five thousand.
He can take very limited things like five loaves and
three fishes, and he can keep splitting that and splitting
it and splitting it and splitting it until everyone is full.
And it's the same thing with our testimonies. We are
dropping a rock in the water when we give our testimonies.

(02:06:43):
And if the Lord wants that to ripple out to
three or four concentric circles, that's great. But if we
really have a heart for the glory of his name
and the we have a heart for the deeds of
the devil to be exposed, and we have a heart
for captives to be set. And that's our daily prayer.
And we're now adding, you know, that was my prayer.

(02:07:05):
Now it's all of our prayers. And I just believe
that we could actually keep that ripple going till Jesus
comes back.

Speaker 1 (02:07:14):
Absolutely, and I love it. Echo that ripple sentiment out
real quick of Isaiah six' eight, says ALSO i heard
of the voice of The lord, saying whom SHALL i?
Send and who will go for? Us then SAID i
here AM i send. Me we just have to be.

(02:07:35):
Willing we just have to be willing, man BECAUSE i
there's no greater honor than to know that The lord
has used you for. Something And I'm i'm honored to
say that he has used. Me AND i hope that
he will continue to use me and this platform and

(02:07:57):
any other platforms that we may get becase is all
it takes is just that one person to hear it
before all of this has completed its. Purpose we don't
need to save the whole. World we need to save
the one lost. Sheet.

Speaker 2 (02:08:12):
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3 (02:08:15):
The last thing THAT i have to the last thing
THAT i have to say is go check.

Speaker 4 (02:08:22):
Out, So, vicky your, website AM i pronouncing this? Correctly
is it a gape First? Ministries?

Speaker 2 (02:08:30):
Oh, so my website Is Vickyjoy anderson dot. Com but
you can also find me on A goppy First ministries
and through the black dot. Com those are just other
ministries THAT i THAT i work with Or i'm on
the board for. Whatever, okay but but my site Is
Vickyjoy anderson dot com and anything that you would need

(02:08:50):
will you can find on that site all my, socials contact,
Events i'm speaking, at, books all that.

Speaker 3 (02:08:56):
Stuff, Okay, OKAY i came across the the the website
That i'm talking about a. Gape is that what you?

Speaker 2 (02:09:06):
Said got?

Speaker 1 (02:09:07):
First it's great for?

Speaker 4 (02:09:08):
Love, yes, OKAY i did not know, that BUT i
thought it was really cool because there's a little tab
over there and it's got a prayer, card which is pretty.

Speaker 1 (02:09:17):
Cool of the three different uh forms of love that
The greek describes in The New, testament, yes. CORRECT i
just can't remember what the other Two greek, words BUT
i know a goape is one of. Them filio, yeah.

Speaker 2 (02:09:36):
And OH i should know. This filio is where we
Get philadelphia from brotherly, love, yes? Yes and then there's
there's the ONE i can't remember The greek, word but
then there's the erotic love AND i CAN'T i can't
remember that one.

Speaker 1 (02:09:55):
ARROWS i think it might be. Arrows do you have
just the one? Book? Er have you authored more than
WHAT i have?

Speaker 2 (02:10:03):
Authored? Several the one most germane to this topic is
They only Come out At, night exposing the dark weapon
of sleep. Paralysis if you go to my website and
click on the, book it'll take you where you need to.
Go but it's available At lamarzouli dot. Net la is
the one that published that. BOOK a lot of the

(02:10:24):
things that other books THAT i, HAVE i have a
lot of poetry and some devotionals and some prayer books and.
Things But i've got three more books in the works
that are are more under this same sort of. Topic
i've got sort of a follow up To They Only
Come out At night in the. WORKS i think we're
thinking about doing a study guide as. Well BUT i

(02:10:45):
also have completed AND i just need to get the
contract signed and off to the. PUBLISHER i have written
a book ON ai which is very much kind of
in line with with not this. Topic But i'm not
just writing about robots and sentients and things like. That
i'm actually tying it Into Old testament idolatry and how

(02:11:08):
there's nothing new under the, sun and how our tech
is perhaps going to be dependent upon some of the
very things that were being worshiped in ancient. Times but
there's a lot of really sort of super fringy stuff in.
There so if you like kind of my style of

(02:11:31):
research and, CONVERSATION i think you'll like it Because i've
taken it in a different direction than most people do
with THE ai. Stuff but it was really really fun
looking into the history of some of that stuff and
some of the elements in the building blocks of our,
tech BECAUSE i do think that our technology is it's
basically the infrastructure for the beast. System The antichrist is not.

(02:11:53):
Omnipotent he's not. Omniscient he's not all, powerful he's not all,
knowing he's not he's not everywhere. Omnipresent he's not the.
Omnipresent and if you look at the technology that's being put,
together it's giving, omnipotence, omniscience and omnipresence to something that
doesn't have those. Things you, know through through global positioning

(02:12:15):
and through all these algorithms and, wearables et, cetera et.
Cetera it's going to empower The antichrist to look like
he has the powers Of. God but if you pull the,
plug all of his powers go. Away and that's kind
of WHY i think THIS emp. Thing there's a lot
of Things i'm worried. About i'm not too worried about

(02:12:37):
THE emp BECAUSE i think if they pull the, plug
they pull the plug on their own, infrastructure and that
infrastructure is a massive smoke and mirrors. Deception they can't
afford to pull that. Plug their whole agenda goes down
the toilet if they pull that. Plug so if anyone's
going to pull the, plug it's probably going to Be,
god so, that you, know exposes. Them that's another little.

(02:13:01):
Tangent but that'll probably be coming out in the next
year or year and a half or something like. That it's,
written but it just takes a while to get books into.
Production so.

Speaker 1 (02:13:11):
That's. Awesome that's. Awesome, WELL i KNOW i won't be
the only one checking out your your website and your,
books because there's definitely some room on my shelves for
some of your. LITERATURE i gotta have, it and a
quick shout out To Sam's web Of. Mysteries he's been

(02:13:31):
in the comments with. Us sorry we haven't shouted you
out before, now, brother it's deep in it over, here my,
Man we're deep in. It glad you were able to make.
It sorry we couldn't make it to your inaugural live stream.
TONIGHT i hope everything went well for, you. Brother you,
know if we wouldn't have been over here, talking we
would have been there with. You and we'll have to

(02:13:52):
catch up with you on that. Soon but Miss, dickie
you have completely and utterly shattered every EXPECTATION i, had
and so amazingly So, i'm LIKE i, Said i'm a
huge fan of yours And i'm just completely honored to

(02:14:13):
have had you on here and to have told you.
Personally you know what you've done for me and for,
Others AND i don't want you to ever think that
what you do is without, significance because it very much,
is and it's probably the thing that you think holds
the least. Significance it's what's gonna save somebody's. Life AND

(02:14:36):
i can personally attest to. That you, know something you
were ready to scrap is the only reason Why i'm
sitting here. Today oh my, goodness that is so.

Speaker 2 (02:14:47):
HUMBLING i had a, blast and just thanks everybody in
the chat for tuning in and giving your Entire friday
evening to sitting and listening to this And kyle And.
Hanks so awesome to meet you with in. Person And,
Kyle i'm glad you got your camera working and. Thanks so,
yeah this has been. GREAT i hope it's the first

(02:15:07):
of many conversations on and. Offline we are brothers and
sisters in the same.

Speaker 1 (02:15:12):
Family, Absolutely, kyle send my love to asking the. Kids you.
KNOW i love, y'all, Man and if you need me
nowhere to find me mistaken once, again just thank. YOU
i get you to send, me send me your links
and stuff SO i can get, them put the show
notes And i'll get you this this. Video uh can't

(02:15:35):
wait to have you back on again in the future
and to speak to you. Again so thank you for
coming on with.

Speaker 2 (02:15:40):
Us absolutely.

Speaker 1 (02:15:42):
Anytime all, right ladies and, Gentlemen we thank y'all for
hanging out with us for the last two hours or fifteen.
Minutes it's probably one of the the most riveting two
Hours i've had a long. Time. Guys thank y'all for
ticking it with. Us you, know we love. Y'all we
got hope That god blessed y'all.

Speaker 2 (02:16:01):
In all his.

Speaker 1 (02:16:01):
Life catch y'all next.

Speaker 2 (02:16:03):
Time

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