December 10, 2025 • 46 mins
"Achieving this milestone was a dream come true. It made all the hard work and sacrifices worth it." - Marsha Posner Williams
In this 80s TV Ladies episode, hosts Susan Lambert Hatem and Sharon Johnson continue their interview with Emmy-winning producer Marsha Posner Williams, exploring further chapters of her illustrious career in television. Marsha discusses her work on the short-lived yet memorable show 'Hail to the Chief,' including behind-the-scenes challenges and humorous moments, like dealing with unprepared nuns in the audience. She delves into the transition to producing 'The Golden Girls,' touching on pivotal moments such as reworking the pilot, the removal of the character Coco, and the creation of the show's iconic theme song and opening credits.
Marsha also reflects on inter-cast dynamics, particularly the tension between Bea Arthur and Betty White, and shares broader insights on her career achievements, inspirational encounters, and the empowering message she delivers in her college lectures.
00:00 Introduction and Recap
00:32 Hail to the Chief: Behind the Scenes
05:42 Golden Girls: Season 1 and Casting
08:29 Golden Girls: Creating the Iconic Theme and Opening Credits
15:52 Golden Girls: On-Set Dynamics and Challenges
20:58 Golden Palace Origins
21:09 Tales from the Set
22:18 Navigating Hollywood's Gender Dynamics
22:45 The Me Too Movement
26:18 Working on Amen
32:24 Transition to College Lectures
36:18 Reflecting on a Hollywood Career
43:31 Conclusion and Farewell
AUDIOOGRAPHY
Listen to Grace Anna at ArtMuse Podcast at artmusepodcast.com
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In this 80s TV Ladies episode, hosts Susan Lambert Hatem and Sharon Johnson continue their interview with Emmy-winning producer Marsha Posner Williams, exploring further chapters of her illustrious career in television. Marsha discusses her work on the short-lived yet memorable show 'Hail to the Chief,' including behind-the-scenes challenges and humorous moments, like dealing with unprepared nuns in the audience. She delves into the transition to producing 'The Golden Girls,' touching on pivotal moments such as reworking the pilot, the removal of the character Coco, and the creation of the show's iconic theme song and opening credits.
Marsha also reflects on inter-cast dynamics, particularly the tension between Bea Arthur and Betty White, and shares broader insights on her career achievements, inspirational encounters, and the empowering message she delivers in her college lectures.
00:00 Introduction and Recap
00:32 Hail to the Chief: Behind the Scenes
05:42 Golden Girls: Season 1 and Casting
08:29 Golden Girls: Creating the Iconic Theme and Opening Credits
15:52 Golden Girls: On-Set Dynamics and Challenges
20:58 Golden Palace Origins
21:09 Tales from the Set
22:18 Navigating Hollywood's Gender Dynamics
22:45 The Me Too Movement
26:18 Working on Amen
32:24 Transition to College Lectures
36:18 Reflecting on a Hollywood Career
43:31 Conclusion and Farewell
AUDIOOGRAPHY
Listen to Grace Anna at ArtMuse Podcast at artmusepodcast.com
HOLIDAY PROMO DEALS
Get awesome sheets and pajamas at COZY EARTH.
If you click through from this page, the discount should automatically apply. If not, use the promo code: 80STVLADIES. Happy Shopping!
DECEMBER 8TL DEALS BLOCK:
80s TV Ladies deals and discounts: Cozy Earth (41% Off)
Old Glory (15% Off)
🔗 Get them at: https://MyDeals.Page/19wy🎁 Code: 80STVLADIES
OUR 100th EPISODE is coming! What should we do to celebrate?
Send us your ideas via: 80sTVLadies @ gmail dot com
Visit 80sTVLadies.com for more info.
Don’t miss out. Sign up for the 80s TV Ladies mailing list!
Help us make more episodes and get ad-free episodes and exclusive content on PATREON.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Eighties, So pretty eighties to the city.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Welcome back to part two of our interview with Marsha
Posner Williams. If you want to start with part one,
go back to the previous episode and take a listen,
or you can start right here, because every story is amazing,
all right, So they meet your conditions.
Speaker 3 (00:33):
Right, And so we came I came back. Hail to
the Chief was just like soap, tons and tons of characters,
continuing story. Seven of the funniest episodes I've ever worked on.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
SO nineteen eighty five, also created by Susan Harris, Patty Duke,
ted Heat that'sl Quinn Cummings, correct, Murphy Hamilton, Yeah, yeah,
And it's the soap at the White House with a
female president, correct. And she becomes president sort of because
the VP, I mean the president.
Speaker 3 (01:06):
I don't even remember how this wasn't important. It was
just that she was the president. Her husband was a philanderer.
And but I will tell you when we went to
shoot the first episode, the executive in charge of production
named Harry, he came in to me right before we
were going to shoot it and he said, we've.
Speaker 2 (01:24):
Got a problem. We got a problem.
Speaker 3 (01:25):
We're going to start shooting like half an hour, and
they are like six or eight nuns in full habits,
sitting in the front row or the big front of
the audience. You got to go tell them that they
probably want to leave.
Speaker 2 (01:35):
I said, not my job. I'm not going to do it.
I'm not going to do it.
Speaker 3 (01:41):
So he had to go talk to them and say,
we're not sure that you know exactly what this show is,
and we want to give you a chance to leave
now before you are just embarrassed. And you know, anyway,
they left, and the.
Speaker 2 (01:55):
First scene of the show took place in.
Speaker 3 (01:59):
Like the Lincoln bedroom something like that, and it opens
up and you see the bed and there's obviously somebody
under the cover's bodies rolling around right, and then a
guy pops his head up, who was a young Latino guy,
all disheveled. And then Quinn Cummings playing the daughter, she
pops up and she's completely disheveled, and he says, so,
(02:23):
how was it, and she says, well, it was everything
I had hoped it would be. It was everything I
had dreamed it would be, only faster. That's how it started.
So it's a good thing they weren't there, and we.
Speaker 2 (02:37):
Went off from it, thinking one of those nuns and
snuck back in but up the habit snackag But it
was Marcia.
Speaker 4 (02:45):
Yeah, they want did they want you to talk to
nuns because you were a woman and they thought it
might come and they and just didn't want to deal
with it, or.
Speaker 3 (02:52):
They wanted me to deal with it, he said, nom
a jew, I'm not going to deal with it. No, no,
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
And so was there any controversy around Hail to the Chief? No, No,
not that, not that I recall.
Speaker 3 (03:10):
Ted was a philanderer, as I said, but it wasn't
as bad quote en quote as soap.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
Do you know the story of how that show came about?
Because I'm fascinated because it was female driven. Yes, Kate
Duke and the president female president. Maybe that would never happen. Yeah,
well clearly still not ready for that. Don't blame me.
Speaker 3 (03:31):
I voted for her, so yeah, yeah, no I don't
because I was doing Night Court at.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
The time, so I wasn't privy to that.
Speaker 4 (03:39):
How did it feel working on a show with Ted
Bessel since that girl was was so important to you
when you were growing up, how was that?
Speaker 2 (03:47):
It was wonderful?
Speaker 3 (03:48):
I mean full circle right, it was absolutely joyful. I
love the whole cast. The who was it that played
the dual role.
Speaker 2 (03:57):
I'll think of it later.
Speaker 3 (03:58):
He was in It's a Mad Men Me med World,
and he was so funny in that show. Remember that
movie was so great and he played the mother, he
played the son of.
Speaker 2 (04:08):
I'm Coming, Mama, I'm Coming Mama. I highly recommend you
watch that show. That movie. It's about movie. Yeah, it's iconic, iconic. Yeah,
Richard quotes that. My husband quotes it alone. Yeah, it's funny.
Speaker 4 (04:22):
I remember the big W. That's the thing for me.
Speaker 3 (04:24):
That and guess what that W I'm going to see
next month because it's on the Allan of Kawhi at
the Wile High.
Speaker 4 (04:31):
Oh and they have a big Yeah, I'm going to
next month.
Speaker 3 (04:37):
Okay you see Oh, okay, herschel Bernardi, herschel Bernardi and no,
but then I can see his face. He died in
real life. He died doing his one man show on stage.
Speaker 2 (04:54):
Who else is in the cast, Dick Seawan, Dick sewn It, Okay,
that's it. Yeah. Yeah, he was amazing, so insecure, but
so amazing, so funny. A lot of actors are insecure. Yeah,
yes they are. So you're wrapping up Hail to the
Chief and you're saying it was always intended to just
be seven episodes, Oh oh no, it was to go on.
Speaker 3 (05:17):
Yes, but it was extremely ABC build advertise that show
as the show that would offend everybody. Seven of the
funniest episodes I've ever seen, and there were a lot
of controversial things in.
Speaker 2 (05:32):
It, but hilarious.
Speaker 3 (05:35):
I mean, yeah, you know, if we just stopped taking
each other so seriously, this could be really funny. So anyway,
but it was while I was doing hal to the
Chief when they started casting The Golden Girls. So that's
how that transition happened. Okay, Haldo the Chief went down
and immediately the Golden Girls was in my lap.
Speaker 2 (05:56):
So that's how that happened. And did you have any
conditions for going on The Golden Girl. No.
Speaker 3 (06:02):
One of the five conditions was I'm not coming back
to do seven episodes because I could do twenty two
with Night Court, So pay me for fifty two weeks
even if everything gets canceled or I'm not interested. So
fortunately for them, one show led right into the next.
Speaker 2 (06:21):
Well they hadn't, They had enough shows going They go.
You gotta keep all their shows going. So Golden Girls, yes,
I've heard of it. So when did you come on
to Golden Girls? Then, well, we did the reshoot of
the pilot without Coco. Okay, all right, so can you
talk about that? So they shoot a pilot with Cocoa?
Right then they realized that a stell Getty basically it's
(06:42):
going to become a more. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (06:44):
She was supposed to be just a guest star. Yeah right,
and she was so strong that Jay Sandrich and they
all just agreed better with just the four of them,
they don't need the fifth guy. I've never felt sorry
for an actor in my life life, but that guy
because it wasn't his fault.
Speaker 2 (07:03):
Yeah, he didn't do anything wrong. He didn't do anything wrong.
Speaker 3 (07:05):
And I've seen I've done pilots with actors who got
fired after day three at the lead. I mean, that's terrible,
but that's because they weren't good enough.
Speaker 2 (07:16):
I mean, remember when.
Speaker 3 (07:17):
You cast somebody, you could cast them right here in
this office and you think they're fabulous, But when you
put them on a fourteen thousand foot square square foot
stage with four cameras in their face, they may turn
into this whole other person and be scared whatever, and
it doesn't work and you never see the person you
saw here on that stage and that I've seen that
happen a few times.
Speaker 2 (07:39):
But he did great job. Charles Levin, Yes, thank you
playing Coco the gay housekeeper house polls boy. Yeah.
Speaker 5 (07:48):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:49):
And it wasn't his fault, yeah, because they basically were
just like, oh no, we can there's rumor that he
was He was even added because they were a little
worried about an all female show. I don't know that. Okay,
I wasn't there. You weren't there for that. I weren't
there for that.
Speaker 5 (08:05):
No.
Speaker 2 (08:05):
I'm also I also found out we just covered facts
of Life, and I didn't realize facts of Life was
moved to Saturday night and became the lead in for
the opening of The Golden Girl.
Speaker 3 (08:16):
Really, and do you know about the actual opening of
the show, the main title opening of the show.
Speaker 2 (08:22):
I heard that you might have had something to do
with it. The iconic theme song. I do want to
ask you about Cindy E v. Cindy F. So I
would love to know about the theme song and the
opening credit.
Speaker 3 (08:39):
So I was there when she sang the song. I
was in the studio. She did it in one take,
and after one take she said, Okay, you got it,
and Tony said, no, no, you got to do it again.
Speaker 2 (08:49):
We need at least two.
Speaker 3 (08:50):
And I mean, I understand that you always because you
never know, right, you have to have at least two.
But she did it in one take. And good for
her because she put her children to college on that
one song.
Speaker 2 (09:01):
Right, Yeah for her.
Speaker 3 (09:03):
So we were about four episodes in but not on
the area yet, and Tony said to me one day,
you know, we've been taking these meetings with main title
companies who pitching all kinds of things, flying the ladies
to Miami and.
Speaker 2 (09:17):
Blah blah blah blah blah all this.
Speaker 3 (09:19):
He said, nothing and twenty five thousand, thirty thousand, forty
thousand to do a main title for He said, nothing's
tweaking our propellers. You know, nothing at all. And I said, well,
we know what the song is, obviously. Let me take
the raw footage of four episodes and go into an
edit bay for a day and let me just you know,
screw around with it.
Speaker 2 (09:38):
He said, you go, go go.
Speaker 3 (09:40):
You know, I'm not an editor, but I know music
and I know and I like picking clips because I
did it on soap all the time, and frame for frame,
what I came out with has been on the air
for forty years at had costed of about twenty five
hundred bucks.
Speaker 2 (09:54):
Did you get to pocket the rest of it? Because
I that is amazing? Yeah, that is, and because you
know television by this point you knew what you were doing.
Speaker 3 (10:05):
But also remember, and Tony was very right about this,
the main title doesn't sell a show, and especially nowadays,
you watch it once and then it's skip intro, skip intro,
skip intro. Right, But that is the only thing that
gets me truly emotional about that show. If I see
that main title, I think about all that went into
it and the story behind it is remarkable.
Speaker 2 (10:26):
That is that is remarkable.
Speaker 4 (10:28):
I was going to ask, do you know how they
picked the song or how that song? Because it was
I believe it was a hit song before was it?
Did it become a hit song afterwards?
Speaker 2 (10:38):
It wasn't.
Speaker 3 (10:38):
It was a hit song before what's his name recorded it?
Speaker 2 (10:43):
That I oh, yeah, yeah, I know it if you
told me, but I don't recall right.
Speaker 4 (10:47):
Now, it's not Harry Nilsen, is it?
Speaker 2 (10:49):
No? Okay?
Speaker 3 (10:51):
And I have to tell you a funniest side story.
A couple of years ago, my husband and I went
to Chicago because you know what the second city is, right, Okay, Well,
I was their guest speaker and it was a really
phenomenal experience for me to be able to do that.
And we said, oh, we're going to go to Chicago.
(11:11):
Let's see if the Cubbies are playing Chicago Cubs.
Speaker 2 (11:15):
So they were.
Speaker 3 (11:16):
We got great seats and we're sitting there before the
game started and talking to a couple guys sitting to
the left of my husband, who's sitting to the left
of me, okay, and they're playing music over the speakers,
and all of a sudden, what starts to play, not
the Cindy fe version, but the song thank You for
Being a Friend. And my husband turns to these two
(11:38):
guys and says, do you know what that song is?
And a guy said, oh, yeah, that's a theme from
the Golden Girls. And my husband points to me and says,
my wife produced the first three seasons of the Golden Girls.
And the guy's eyes popped out of his head and
he leaned across my husband and said to me, you
know you're a gay icon, right, And I said yes,
(11:58):
and I wear the title prow.
Speaker 2 (12:03):
Is that funny? That is?
Speaker 3 (12:05):
It wasn't even the Cindy Fee There was no not
even words.
Speaker 2 (12:08):
It was just the melody it was playing. Wasn't that funny?
And it was written and recorded by Andrew Gold That's right, Andrew,
And yes, yes, that is amazing. That song is amazing.
That opening credit sequence. And as a person who grew
up in the eighties, the opening credit sequence were important
(12:28):
because they carry a lot of resonance now, right. And
I think Sharon and I talk about missing them a
little bit, Like I liked that the Game of Thrones
had an opening credit sequence and music that became iconic
to it. I kind of missed them, and I definitely
missed the songs. So that's one of the reasons I
(12:49):
wanted to have her on. I'm very excited about those
songs and those song writers and song singers. Great cool,
all right, so you're coming on Golden Girls. You fixed
the opening credits, you saved them twenty two thousand dollars.
It sounds like this was a hit almost from the
first taping, Like you knew it was resonating with audiences.
(13:12):
It was it was.
Speaker 3 (13:13):
There was nothing like it on TV, and as soon
as it hit their waves, you know, you never know.
It doesn't matter what the ratings are in the first week,
does not matter, right because everyone tunes in to see
what it is. Week three is what tells you if
the show.
Speaker 2 (13:27):
Is going to be a hit or not. Okay, makes sense,
mm hmm. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (13:31):
So we knew by the end of the third fourth
week that something crazy was happening because there was a
lot of press starting to happen. The ladies were so iconic,
the three, especially you know, Stell came from just off
a Broadway, so nobody really knew her. But I said
to Stelle, don't you because the other ladies were getting
(13:53):
more publicity than her, And she voiced it to me
one day. I said, Estelle, be patient, you wit, It's
all going to happen for you. I guarantee it. Just
be patient.
Speaker 2 (14:05):
And that's what happened. Yeah, that's it. I mean, she
became as iconic as the other three who had been
on television for forever, forever.
Speaker 3 (14:15):
Yeah, and to this day, people still don't know that
she was the second youngest of them.
Speaker 2 (14:19):
All that being funny, the ages and the whole age
thing is very insane.
Speaker 3 (14:26):
Right, Well, we had a four thousand dollars human hair
wig on our head, so that helped a lot.
Speaker 2 (14:30):
Yeah, yeah, I hope somebody treated that preciously.
Speaker 3 (14:36):
Yeah, it was very unfortunate that she passed away of
Alzheimer's and we didn't know back in those days, the
mid eighties, what was dementia, what was alsheimer's. But she
had a lot of trouble. It's not a secret. She
had a lot of trouble remembering her lines. And her
lines were written all over that set, All over that set,
(14:59):
every cupboard, every table, every everything had her.
Speaker 2 (15:01):
Lines were written on her hand.
Speaker 3 (15:04):
Oh yeah, yeah, that's where we had to give her
that note to wash your hands, because when we did
the early show, we taped every show twice five o'clock
and seven.
Speaker 2 (15:12):
Thirty, and you tape both shows with an audience.
Speaker 3 (15:15):
Yes, okay, and then we did it the best of
both together. So we had to tell her to wash
her hands because she made a gesture and we saw
the line written our hand, like, excuse me, that's not
going to work.
Speaker 2 (15:28):
So yeah, that must have been very hard. That's hard
when another cast member is enabled to that. That's hard
on the other cast members. It's hard in a sitcom
when you're moving so quickly.
Speaker 3 (15:40):
Right, But by the time I left, we were doing
que cards for her.
Speaker 2 (15:44):
Okay, yeah, And did it cause attention or were people understanding? Well?
Speaker 3 (15:50):
The ladies were so professional. I mean, we know the
controversy between Bee and Betty.
Speaker 2 (15:55):
Yeah, I do want to ask you about that.
Speaker 3 (15:58):
But it was tough because we didn't know what it
was and we'd be at a reading on a Monday.
We don't shoot it till Friday. I remember specifically what
the line even was. And the table reads were so
much fun because the scripts were so good, especially in
those early days, right, and we and Estelle just stops
the reading and says, I'll never remember that line. And
(16:20):
the director says, it's so funny a Stelle. It's not
going to change for five days. No, But that's how
difficult it was. It was sad, yeah, but she she
was a trooper boy, and she pulled it off for
seven years, right.
Speaker 2 (16:35):
Well, which is you know when you think coming from
the theater, oh, you can memorize anything, but you're not
doing different shows. That's right.
Speaker 3 (16:41):
That's why it was so much easier doing theaters. The
same lines every day, every day for you lock it
in years exactly?
Speaker 2 (16:47):
Sure.
Speaker 5 (16:49):
Can I ask a question about the wig?
Speaker 2 (16:51):
Yes?
Speaker 5 (16:51):
Do you remember did jose Norman? Did the wig have
no clue?
Speaker 2 (16:56):
That's all the hairdresser asked Joyce Melton?
Speaker 5 (17:00):
Oh, Joyce was your okay? So it wasn't to say
I just went yeah.
Speaker 3 (17:04):
Joyce Melton was the head hairdresser.
Speaker 5 (17:06):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (17:06):
Yes, I'm soap too, okay? And then so it was
there is It is sort of famous that b Arthur
did not really like that he white. Well, let me
put it to you this day.
Speaker 3 (17:21):
Those two couldn't warm up to each other if they
were cremated together. Does that kind of tell it to
you in a sentence?
Speaker 2 (17:28):
And was it just the personality? Could it have been resolved? No, okay,
I don't think so. But remember they were so professional
that the second that red light went on, they were
the consummate professionals. B came from the theater. B was
a theatrical actress, despite all the success she had on TV,
(17:48):
which we know was a lot, right, B, don't forget,
was a marine. She drove trucks in the Marines, and
she was a tough broad right, So when we would
do in front of an audience. We would shoot a
scene and then okay, moving on, and they would go
to do a wardrobe change or just move to the
next set. Betty would sometimes break character and go talk
(18:11):
to the audience and be hated that. Hated that because
theater that's not allowed. You don't do that.
Speaker 3 (18:18):
You know, it breaks the rhythm to her, you know,
it's kind of yeah, and okay, I get that, I
get that. But again they I'll tell you, you know,
my husband shot some very iconic pictures of the ladies
and I don't know if you remember in your research
if you found that the old show This is Your
Life with Ralph Edwards did a surprise to Betty White. Okay,
(18:42):
this is your life, Betty White. And when they when
that show contacted us about doing that. We then went
to the ladies except for Betty, of course, to say
will you help us pull off the surprise? And of
course of Stelle said yes, and Ruth said yes, and
Be said, not a chance, not going to do it.
So the executives went to my husband and said, Wayne,
(19:04):
please talk her into it. Make it so it's a
photo shoot something really fast and you'll be there because
she loves you, and so Wayne is the one that
got it to happen. And so during this quote unquote
fake photo shoot, all of a sudden, Ralph at George
walks in and he has the perfect shot right when
Betty was surprised, which I'll show you later.
Speaker 2 (19:26):
Oh my gosh. Yeah all right, so he's he's kind
of the bee whisperer. Yes, yes, yeah.
Speaker 3 (19:33):
She actually called the house one day and said, Wayne,
I just bought a brand new BMW and the cassette
player doesn't work. I need you to come over to
my house. She doesn't live anywhere near us, but he
went to her house. He said, okay, b what's the problem.
And my husband is a tech genius.
Speaker 2 (19:48):
Okay. So sat in their.
Speaker 3 (19:50):
Car, she said, okay, here's the cassette. She puts it in,
she said it doesn't play. He said, okay, let's turn
the car on, and she gave him the b Arthur
look and he said, you know, should I leave now?
Speaker 2 (20:06):
Yes, get out of my car.
Speaker 4 (20:11):
Yeah that look that's fantastic.
Speaker 2 (20:13):
Yeah, we know that look very well.
Speaker 4 (20:16):
How did rue McClanahan navigate legate the tension between the
other Betty and be.
Speaker 3 (20:24):
Easily easily It was easy really because it wasn't terribly blatant.
Sometimes it got out of control. The script supervisor could
tell you more about that than me, because she was
on stage the whole seven years with the Wonderful Ladies.
But and I hear things secondhand sometimes. But it was fine.
(20:45):
That lasted seven years. But it's because Beide said no
way to an eighth year. It was because of that
that the show did not come back for an eighth year.
The other three said yes, well let's keep going, and
be said, no chance. She was done, and that's when
Golden Palace was born, which we know what happened there.
Speaker 2 (21:04):
Yeah. Now were you part of Golden Palace?
Speaker 5 (21:06):
No?
Speaker 2 (21:07):
No, I was gone? Was gone? You were gone. Yeah.
So it's interesting because I'm wondering if you ever worked
with two male actors who kind of didn't like each other. Oh,
that's an interesting question. I don't think so. No, there
was never tension on set between two male actors that
you were shows you were on. No, I don't think so.
(21:28):
I no, Okay, oh I think she did? You just
think of something?
Speaker 3 (21:37):
I thought of a great story on the show I
did with Danny Thomas called One Big Family. But it
wasn't tension, but we had an actor on the show
who would throw tantrums once in a while, and how
what happened on a particular day that it's quite the story,
a great story.
Speaker 2 (21:55):
You'd have to probably edit it out, but it's a
great story. You better tell us off the air, because
I will make a note. Yeah, yeah, just say one
big family, one big family.
Speaker 3 (22:07):
Yeah, it's a great story. It's a great Marsha's story.
Speaker 2 (22:11):
Listeners, I have a whole list of things to ask later.
I'm sorry we can't include you, right, but there's so much.
I asked that question because it you know, we hear
a lot about, you know, the ladies of the eighties
and their relationships, and I sometimes think that women are
judged more harshly for their behavior, for them being quote
(22:37):
unquote difficult on set than men are.
Speaker 3 (22:42):
Well in front of the camera, behind the camera. Yeah,
I mean, you could ask me if I ever been
a victim of a me too movement experience, and I
would say to you, I've never been a victim of anything.
I've had those experiences. But you already know me for
ten minutes. You know I can handle myself, right, Yeah,
And I have had those experience ch answers that I
would say most women would have not been able to
(23:04):
handle the way I did because I got a mouth
on me and a brilliant sense of humor. I think
it right when I need it. And so yeah, that's
stories for Off for Off. Yeah, we're make a note
right right right for me too, Just write me too,
because the stories are quite remarkable of these guys who
(23:27):
try to pull something off and I stopped them in
their tracks in the best way.
Speaker 4 (23:33):
Yes, it's hard to believe that there haven't been instances
across the depth and breadth of Hollywood where male co
stars did not get along, But there doesn't seem to
have been the same expectation for them to be able
to get along in the same way it is for women.
(23:53):
You've got four women on the show, Supposedly they're best
friends in real life, just as they are on the show,
even though they're acting as their job to pretend to
be best friends on the show. And when men are
on shows and they're supposed to be best friends and
maybe they get along, maybe they don't, there isn't doesn't
seem to be the same expectation that they're also you know,
(24:15):
fast friends and seeing each other and you know, running
around together as friends outside of when they're not working.
But we'll just chalk it up to everything.
Speaker 3 (24:25):
Else exactly exactly how we navigate those things, right.
Speaker 2 (24:30):
Do you think it was more difficult for you to
rise up in the rinks of producer or break in
And we talked about that a little bit because you
were a woman.
Speaker 4 (24:42):
Looks like we have to take a break, We'll be
right back. We want to make sure when we're recommending
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Speaker 2 (25:25):
And we're back.
Speaker 3 (25:28):
You know, I never ever thought about it that way,
because I just looked at it as I'm going to
do the best I can of what happens happens, and
that's All I focused on was just be really good
at what I did, with the greatest attitude ever and
no negativity ever, unless it was with my door closed
(25:49):
to myself with a bottle of booze. But I never
thought of it that way, and it was only until
those little me to movement things happened that I, oh,
my goodness, look at these guys, thinking they're all that,
but they're not, which made me laugh.
Speaker 2 (26:06):
Yeah, seriously, Now, did you work on any of the
Golden Girls international versions? I was gone, you were gone? Okay,
so you left Golden Girls? Yes, and you went. Let's see,
I did a show called I started working at? What show?
Did I do at Paramount with? Oh?
Speaker 3 (26:25):
Yes, I did, amen, Oh yes, yes, okay, yes, I
loved Sherman. I loved that cast. But I can tell
you here we go again. I did the third season
of that show. I started at the very beginning of
the third season. I was the fifth producer in the
(26:46):
job because the executive producer was such a piece of
work and had quite the reputation that the girl who
had the job to producers before me left with the
bleeding altar and her hair was falling because she did
not know how to handle this guy. He was He
was the walking reason for twin beds.
Speaker 2 (27:07):
Of course, but I.
Speaker 3 (27:14):
I found a way, Yes, yes, And I will tell
you one great story about this guy. That we were
in a camera blocking run through. Okay, so we're in
the booth, the cameras are there, and he used to
pace back and forth behind the director. It was terrible
that he did that. And I was sitting in the
(27:36):
row right behind them. Okay, so you picture that the
front row. He's pacing between us.
Speaker 5 (27:43):
Right.
Speaker 3 (27:44):
So they're doing the rehearsal. An actor misses a line,
flubs a line, and he takes his script and goes, god,
damn it and hits me right on my hand and
I yelped, and he never.
Speaker 2 (27:57):
Said a word to me.
Speaker 3 (28:00):
Next day, tape day, the front row is there. Nobody
else is there, but the front row's getting ready for rehearsal.
Before the audience comes in.
Speaker 2 (28:07):
I walk in. They all look at me and they said, Marsha,
please don't do it. He's going to fire you. Please.
Speaker 3 (28:12):
We love having you here, everybody loves you. Please don't
do this. He's going to fire you. And I had
a pair play deal, so I didn't care. I mean
do you fire me after day one? You got to
pay me for twenty two episodes, right, So I said, look,
a girl's got to do what a girl's got to do.
And I took my place and I sat down, and
(28:33):
in he walks, and he comes over and he says
to me, what are you doing? And I said, well,
yesterday you hit me and you hurt me, so today
I'm ready take your best shot. And I was sitting
there in a full catcher's outfit and he didn't talk
to me the rest of the day, but he didn't
(28:55):
fire me. So girl's got to do what a girl's
got to do.
Speaker 2 (29:00):
Absolutely, yeah, he was.
Speaker 3 (29:05):
I mean I saw him, you know, put his fist
in the wall, kick a table, chase a runner down
the stairs, throwing things up, you know.
Speaker 2 (29:12):
Yeah. It takes all kinds, right, yeah, but you know, yeah,
but that behavior, you know, I don't know. Brilliance has
no excuse for bad behavior, no right.
Speaker 3 (29:22):
And I will tell you that he co created the
Cosby show. He was making so much money when I
was working with him, so much money. But I heard,
and I'm pretty sure it's true that after they shot
the pilot of Cosby, Cosby went to NBC and said,
either he goes or I go. So the guy had
(29:44):
a reputation. I'm not talking out a turn. The guy
had fifth.
Speaker 2 (29:47):
I was the fifth person.
Speaker 4 (29:49):
Really yeah, really yeah.
Speaker 2 (29:52):
So but you stayed on Amen just for a season.
Speaker 3 (29:56):
Okay, I can only take one season. I said, think
of it like a kidney stone. It'll pass. It'll pass
every day. I'd say that be painful, but it'll pass.
So after twenty two I said, I'm out.
Speaker 2 (30:10):
Now you worked briefly, at least according to IMDb, what
I do on It's a Living. I did the pilot.
You did the pilot. Yeah, okay, we've talked about It's
a Living on this show. We had on Angelian No close.
We were close. She was going to then she said no.
(30:32):
You know, there's a number of women that we get
to and then they get nervous and they start to say, well,
I don't know, I don't I don't want to talk.
And I think, you know, I think that sometimes sometimes
women have are more afraid to say to tell their story,
(30:53):
and it's just easier to not. I don't have that problem. No,
you do not. I appreciate that so much. We talked
to Paul Krepple because every guy will come on our show. Yes,
I have no problem. He's great, he's he was delightful.
Speaker 3 (31:10):
And you're talking about working with Jay Johnson. Yes, and
winning a Tawny on Broadway show, which is an astonishing
show that Jim does. Astonishing. I've seen it five times.
Speaker 2 (31:21):
Oh my gosh. Okay, I have not seen it, but
I did hear about it. How was that? How was
that working on the pilot of this show? That was great? Yeah,
it was funny. It was fun.
Speaker 3 (31:33):
No, and I'm kind of glad I didn't do this
series because I was doing other stuff, which I don't
remember at this time, but I did after I am in.
Then I started working at that was at Paramount. Then
I started working at twenty Century Fox, and I worked.
I did a lot of stuff there for like seven
or eight years before I Then I did a pilot
for CBS, and then I got out.
Speaker 2 (31:55):
And what made you decide I'm done? I wasn't having
fun anymore. I didn't.
Speaker 3 (32:01):
I'd already done close to four hundred episodes. And I
remember saying to Wayne, look, I know you're an artist
and that's a tough life and everything, but we're gonna
pay off our house.
Speaker 2 (32:11):
I'm out. I just wasn't having any fun anymore. So
I've been retired for like twenty two years, but it
sounds like you've been keeping busy. I'm very busy.
Speaker 3 (32:23):
Yeah, because I do college lectures. And that's the joy
of my life, which I know is the thing you
were going to talk about. That's the joy.
Speaker 2 (32:30):
Yeah, So that's what's giving you joy is college lectures.
And do you talk about different things? Do you have
a sort of a set thing that you talk about.
Speaker 3 (32:39):
It's always the kids who want to get in the business.
And because of my story of coming from nothing right
and all that which you've heard, they realize what's possible.
Because I'm not preaching from a book. I pull no punches,
I swear like a sailor, and I bring my sense
of humor as you know, and they and inevitable. There's
(33:00):
one person in every class who says to me, you
just change my life because I give them. I tell them,
despite everything, I'm the most encouraging and inspiring and motivating
person they've ever met in their life because I went
through it okay. And the first thing I always ask
(33:22):
them is how many of you have parents who don't
want you to get in this business, and half the
hands go up right, And then I tell them how
to think about that, what to think about that while
I'm swearing along the way, and it changes their life
because then they think now, it's almost like giving them
permission to think a different way, to have a dreamy Yeah, yeah,
(33:47):
dreams have no deadlines. Okay, that's a quote from Mellow
cool J. I'll give him credit for that. It's a
great quote. But again, as I said to you at
the beginning, when I say to them, do you want
to go through life wondering? What if it's not gonna
feel very good?
Speaker 2 (34:01):
So why?
Speaker 3 (34:02):
And you can't fail ever, unless you never try in
the first place. If you try it it doesn't work out,
that's called it just doesn't work out. Even if it's
a relationship, you try it, if it doesn't work out,
that's not a failure. Take that word out of your life.
It just doesn't work out. It just doesn't work out.
But you can say I tried. That's a badge of honor.
Speaker 2 (34:23):
I tried.
Speaker 3 (34:25):
That's the way I look at it. That's my opinion,
and I'm sticking to it.
Speaker 2 (34:28):
I love that. So what has changed your life? What
has changed my life? Well, which moment was it that
made you go.
Speaker 3 (34:40):
Well, it was when I got the call from MGM
and I said, Dad, I've made it two hundred dollars
a week plus over time. My life just changed. That's
truly remarkable because it was a trajet, the start of
the trajectory.
Speaker 2 (34:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (34:54):
But I wonder, no doubt, I wonder if it actually
might be the second time you came to LA and
you stuck it out for two years before you got
that call from MGM. Because if you hadn't, if you
had called it quits at that point, there would have
been no call.
Speaker 3 (35:10):
Of course, of course, Yes, that's true, very true. Those
are interesting days for sure. Going to the pawn shop.
Oh my goodness, that was humiliating.
Speaker 2 (35:22):
But I did it. But you did it, Yeah, and
you got through. I got through.
Speaker 5 (35:27):
Right.
Speaker 2 (35:28):
Are you still in touch with people? Who are you
still in touch with? Well?
Speaker 3 (35:32):
I just got a call from Tony Thomas the other day,
who had spoken to once in forty years, because Disney
and ABC News are going to do a special for
the fortieth anniversary of the show this.
Speaker 2 (35:44):
Year for Golden Girls. Okay, believe it or not, forty
forty years. Is that possible?
Speaker 3 (35:51):
I think I'm only twenty five. It's just my body
thinks I'm an idiot.
Speaker 2 (35:57):
So there it is. You can bleep that out, like
where did the time go? I just it's difficult as
you look.
Speaker 4 (36:07):
Back on all the things you've done and all the
things you've seen and people you've met. What for you
are the highlights of your career and the things you're
able to accomplish in your career.
Speaker 3 (36:18):
Well, everything that I've done in this business, to me
is an accomplishment everything for me. How great is it
to get a call from a studio that says so
and so producer has requested you come on. That's a
big deal. And that happened a few times. That was
a very big deal for me, Like, oh, I didn't
(36:39):
have to go searching for anything, I just got that call.
Speaker 2 (36:41):
That's really great.
Speaker 3 (36:44):
No, getting married, that's a huge thing to somebody that
in this business. To still be married to forty one
years later is quite remarkable, considering I used to be
the queen of the one night stand back in the day.
You know when the most use word of my vocabulary
was next.
Speaker 2 (37:00):
So you know, what can I say? It was the seventies.
Speaker 3 (37:07):
Yeah, I consider waking up every day an accomplishment these days,
and every day above ground is an accomplishment. You know,
it's not our abilities that show who we are. It's
our choices that show who we are. Right, So, you
can be the greatest writer or the greatest producer, but
if you choose to be an asshole, I have no
(37:28):
respect for you because you made that choice. Right.
Speaker 2 (37:32):
So I.
Speaker 3 (37:35):
Just every day is to me is just an amazing day.
And I look back on my career, which I now
say is like World War Two. It's history, but it's
still I not only achieved what my original goal was,
which was to work in this business, I actually overachieved.
Speaker 2 (37:57):
How often does that happen?
Speaker 3 (38:00):
Dad used to say to me, you know, I'm becoming
known as your father. It does it get better than that?
Speaker 2 (38:05):
It doesn't. It doesn't.
Speaker 3 (38:08):
And my sister was became a judge at twenty five,
so you know, we we were considering we both lost
our mother at an early age. I'm so proud of
the two of us for doing what we did in life.
It's pretty remarkable. So I'm grateful every day also that
I married a man who thinks I'm the funniest person
on the planet, so that helps a lot.
Speaker 2 (38:29):
That does help.
Speaker 4 (38:31):
Is there anything you miss about not working in Hollywood anymore?
Speaker 2 (38:35):
Not a nano second? How does it feel to win
an Emmy and Golden Globe? Well? Did I just talk
about overachieving? Do you have one in your house? I
have two Emmys in my house? And where did they
sit on the mantle? They the mask?
Speaker 3 (38:57):
Because when I have young people come over and they
see the reality of that, and I always say, do
you want to take a picture with it?
Speaker 2 (39:05):
And they always say yes. It gives them a whole
new push. Now they know what's possible.
Speaker 3 (39:13):
And when I do college lectures locally, like I only
go to I would never speak at USC or UCLA
because my own story of struggle doesn't appeal or doesn't
apply to that. But for example, I go to Stockton, California.
They have a community college there that's about twenty five
(39:34):
thousand strong. Okay, A lot of the kids in the
media department come from nothing, and they have the most brilliant,
brilliant professor who is the most amazing woman I've ever
met in my life. She's originally from Costa Rica, and
the way she teaches, and the fact of how inclusive
(39:55):
and all of that she is of everybody well spoken
to that class thirteen times at the end.
Speaker 2 (40:03):
We have a routine.
Speaker 3 (40:05):
The last thing I say in my lectures, I say,
here's the last thing I want to say to you
before I go. I'm not going to tell you it's
going to be easy, but I will tell you it'll
be worth it. And out comes the Emmy and they
all go out of their minds. And then they line
up wanting to have a picture taken with it, and
I let each one of them hold it and they
(40:26):
feel what they get energy from it.
Speaker 2 (40:30):
How it's got to wait. Oh, it's very heavy, they're
very heavy.
Speaker 3 (40:33):
But how how fantastic is that to see their faces
light up with such joy of what's possible? Because that's
what I always tell them. Don't let people tell you
it's not possible. Don't let somebody who probably gave up
on their dreams talk you.
Speaker 2 (40:49):
Out of yours. Don't don't do that. This is your choice.
Don't let don't let somebody take your power away from you.
Why would you do that? Why? Why? Why?
Speaker 3 (40:59):
And then they get very empowered by that. It takes
that outside voice to tell you something sometimes, right, Yes,
if your parents are telling you, some of your siblings
are telling your best friends, but somebody completely unknown tells
you somebody a boom, a light goes off.
Speaker 2 (41:14):
Yeah, it's joyful, that's amazing. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (41:17):
How did you get started doing lectures or speaking to students?
Speaker 2 (41:20):
How did that come about?
Speaker 3 (41:21):
It started a really long time ago when I was
a script supervisor believe it or not, on soap and
I went to Chico State and talked to one hundred
and twenty kids and it just started. And what I
love telling them too, is I started as the secretary right.
As an example, remember I was a script supervisor on
(41:44):
soap and then I got kicked upstairs. The girl who
replaced me as a script supervisor was also the script
supervisor when I went to Night Court, And during that
year or season on My Court, she used to say
to me, I just want to I just want to
write comedy scripts. Encourage her and encourage her.
Speaker 2 (42:01):
Well, guess what.
Speaker 3 (42:02):
That young girl went on to become the co executive
producer of Two and a half Men. Okay, So there's
so many stories like that. It's not just me and
I tell them, whether it's a music department. One of
my roommates right took me in when I was homeless.
He came here from Texas because he wanted to be
a singing star. He went on to score every note
of music for.
Speaker 2 (42:21):
Saved by the Bell. I mean, it happens when you're
good at what you do. It happens so committed. That's
amazing commitment. Wow. All right, well this has been fantastic.
I'm so glad. I've had a good time us too.
We have had a blast. And it's Sharon, it's almost
(42:43):
like you were here, right, Yes, it was joyful. I
so wish I was.
Speaker 4 (42:48):
But yeah, we can't. We cannot, really cannot thank you
enough for sharing yours with us. It really means a lot.
I mean just mean a lot to our audience, but
my goodness, it means a lot to us too, to hear.
Speaker 2 (42:58):
I'm so glad. I'm so glad.
Speaker 3 (43:00):
But it just it gives me such joy to be
here and to let other people in on how I
think and stuff, and because if it affects one person,
yeah right, ye. Plus I just love telling the stories,
some of which we're not going to tell to roll offten.
Speaker 2 (43:18):
Okay, but you know, don't worry, Sharon and I will
get them and then they won't be able to tell
you listeners right right right, but we'll enjoy them exactly. Yes, yes, yes, yes,
all right, we have to let you go. Okay, but
don't worry. We're going to keep talking to her and
got stories. Thank you everybody for listening for our audiography today.
(43:42):
You can currently watch Golden Girls on Hulu and Disney Plus,
and it's available for purchase on Apple TV and Prime Video.
Speaker 4 (43:51):
And for those who are sick of streaming apps moving
everything around, the DVDs might be available at your local libraries.
Do check it out, or you can find box sets
on DVD at eBay.
Speaker 2 (44:06):
I'm recommending this short but very interesting TD Milestone series book,
The Golden Girls by Kate Brown. And you can check
out a book on soap, The Unauthorized Inside Story of
the Sitcom That Broke All the Rules by as Burman.
Links will be in our description. Okay, eighties TV ladies,
let's talk about night sweats. It's not glamorous, but it's
(44:29):
real and it's happening to me. My absolute life saver.
Cozy earth bamboo sheets. They're cooling and moisture wicking so
I can finally sleep soundly without overheating and the wetting
up everything. They are worth the hype. Visitcozyearth dot com
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(44:49):
off code forty one percent and that code is Eighties
TV Ladies.
Speaker 4 (44:55):
So listeners, as we've mentioned before, we really appreciate your feedback.
So if you like our show, please make sure to
leave us a rating and a review on Apple Podcasts
or Spotify or whatever platform you use. Our website is
Eightiestvladies dot com. We'd love to hear from you.
Speaker 2 (45:12):
We are coming up on our one hundredth episode of
Eighties TV Ladies. I can't believe it, Sharon and Melissa.
What should we do to celebrate?
Speaker 5 (45:22):
I think we definitely need to pop some champagne.
Speaker 2 (45:26):
Yeah, maybe a big cake. A big cake, Okay, I
like that. What else?
Speaker 4 (45:31):
Well, what about you?
Speaker 2 (45:32):
What do you think we should do? I would love
to do. I was thinking that we might do a
crazy loveboat cruise episode where we just pretend we're on
the love boat and talk about something or our one
hundredth episode. I don't know. I haven't figured it out.
Speaker 4 (45:50):
Well, listeners, if you have any ideas, we would love
to hear them, so send us a message at eightiestv
Ladies at gmail dot com or through our website site
eightiestv Ladies dot com.
Speaker 5 (46:03):
How should we celebrate one hundred episodes?
Speaker 4 (46:07):
Let us know, and as always, when we travel down
this road and back again, we hope Eighties TV Ladies
brings you joy and laughter and lots of fabulous new
and old shows to watch, all of which will bring
us closer to being amazing ladies of the twenty first century.
Speaker 2 (46:27):
Eight sand So Pretty.
Speaker 1 (46:30):
Eighties Into the City and Good Money Man World eighty
Eighties, So pretty eighties to the city.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Welcome back to part two of our interview with Marsha
Posner Williams. If you want to start with part one,
go back to the previous episode and take a listen,
or you can start right here, because every story is amazing,
all right, So they meet your conditions.
Speaker 3 (00:33):
Right, And so we came I came back. Hail to
the Chief was just like soap, tons and tons of characters,
continuing story. Seven of the funniest episodes I've ever worked on.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
SO nineteen eighty five, also created by Susan Harris, Patty Duke,
ted Heat that'sl Quinn Cummings, correct, Murphy Hamilton, Yeah, yeah,
And it's the soap at the White House with a
female president, correct. And she becomes president sort of because
the VP, I mean the president.
Speaker 3 (01:06):
I don't even remember how this wasn't important. It was
just that she was the president. Her husband was a philanderer.
And but I will tell you when we went to
shoot the first episode, the executive in charge of production
named Harry, he came in to me right before we
were going to shoot it and he said, we've.
Speaker 2 (01:24):
Got a problem. We got a problem.
Speaker 3 (01:25):
We're going to start shooting like half an hour, and
they are like six or eight nuns in full habits,
sitting in the front row or the big front of
the audience. You got to go tell them that they
probably want to leave.
Speaker 2 (01:35):
I said, not my job. I'm not going to do it.
I'm not going to do it.
Speaker 3 (01:41):
So he had to go talk to them and say,
we're not sure that you know exactly what this show is,
and we want to give you a chance to leave
now before you are just embarrassed. And you know, anyway,
they left, and the.
Speaker 2 (01:55):
First scene of the show took place in.
Speaker 3 (01:59):
Like the Lincoln bedroom something like that, and it opens
up and you see the bed and there's obviously somebody
under the cover's bodies rolling around right, and then a
guy pops his head up, who was a young Latino guy,
all disheveled. And then Quinn Cummings playing the daughter, she
pops up and she's completely disheveled, and he says, so,
(02:23):
how was it, and she says, well, it was everything
I had hoped it would be. It was everything I
had dreamed it would be, only faster. That's how it started.
So it's a good thing they weren't there, and we.
Speaker 2 (02:37):
Went off from it, thinking one of those nuns and
snuck back in but up the habit snackag But it
was Marcia.
Speaker 4 (02:45):
Yeah, they want did they want you to talk to
nuns because you were a woman and they thought it
might come and they and just didn't want to deal
with it, or.
Speaker 3 (02:52):
They wanted me to deal with it, he said, nom
a jew, I'm not going to deal with it. No, no,
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
And so was there any controversy around Hail to the Chief? No, No,
not that, not that I recall.
Speaker 3 (03:10):
Ted was a philanderer, as I said, but it wasn't
as bad quote en quote as soap.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
Do you know the story of how that show came about?
Because I'm fascinated because it was female driven. Yes, Kate
Duke and the president female president. Maybe that would never happen. Yeah,
well clearly still not ready for that. Don't blame me.
Speaker 3 (03:31):
I voted for her, so yeah, yeah, no I don't
because I was doing Night Court at.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
The time, so I wasn't privy to that.
Speaker 4 (03:39):
How did it feel working on a show with Ted
Bessel since that girl was was so important to you
when you were growing up, how was that?
Speaker 2 (03:47):
It was wonderful?
Speaker 3 (03:48):
I mean full circle right, it was absolutely joyful. I
love the whole cast. The who was it that played
the dual role.
Speaker 2 (03:57):
I'll think of it later.
Speaker 3 (03:58):
He was in It's a Mad Men Me med World,
and he was so funny in that show. Remember that
movie was so great and he played the mother, he
played the son of.
Speaker 2 (04:08):
I'm Coming, Mama, I'm Coming Mama. I highly recommend you
watch that show. That movie. It's about movie. Yeah, it's iconic, iconic. Yeah,
Richard quotes that. My husband quotes it alone. Yeah, it's funny.
Speaker 4 (04:22):
I remember the big W. That's the thing for me.
Speaker 3 (04:24):
That and guess what that W I'm going to see
next month because it's on the Allan of Kawhi at
the Wile High.
Speaker 4 (04:31):
Oh and they have a big Yeah, I'm going to
next month.
Speaker 3 (04:37):
Okay you see Oh, okay, herschel Bernardi, herschel Bernardi and no,
but then I can see his face. He died in
real life. He died doing his one man show on stage.
Speaker 2 (04:54):
Who else is in the cast, Dick Seawan, Dick sewn It, Okay,
that's it. Yeah. Yeah, he was amazing, so insecure, but
so amazing, so funny. A lot of actors are insecure. Yeah,
yes they are. So you're wrapping up Hail to the
Chief and you're saying it was always intended to just
be seven episodes, Oh oh no, it was to go on.
Speaker 3 (05:17):
Yes, but it was extremely ABC build advertise that show
as the show that would offend everybody. Seven of the
funniest episodes I've ever seen, and there were a lot
of controversial things in.
Speaker 2 (05:32):
It, but hilarious.
Speaker 3 (05:35):
I mean, yeah, you know, if we just stopped taking
each other so seriously, this could be really funny. So anyway,
but it was while I was doing hal to the
Chief when they started casting The Golden Girls. So that's
how that transition happened. Okay, Haldo the Chief went down
and immediately the Golden Girls was in my lap.
Speaker 2 (05:56):
So that's how that happened. And did you have any
conditions for going on The Golden Girl. No.
Speaker 3 (06:02):
One of the five conditions was I'm not coming back
to do seven episodes because I could do twenty two
with Night Court, So pay me for fifty two weeks
even if everything gets canceled or I'm not interested. So
fortunately for them, one show led right into the next.
Speaker 2 (06:21):
Well they hadn't, They had enough shows going They go.
You gotta keep all their shows going. So Golden Girls, yes,
I've heard of it. So when did you come on
to Golden Girls? Then, well, we did the reshoot of
the pilot without Coco. Okay, all right, so can you
talk about that? So they shoot a pilot with Cocoa?
Right then they realized that a stell Getty basically it's
(06:42):
going to become a more. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (06:44):
She was supposed to be just a guest star. Yeah right,
and she was so strong that Jay Sandrich and they
all just agreed better with just the four of them,
they don't need the fifth guy. I've never felt sorry
for an actor in my life life, but that guy
because it wasn't his fault.
Speaker 2 (07:03):
Yeah, he didn't do anything wrong. He didn't do anything wrong.
Speaker 3 (07:05):
And I've seen I've done pilots with actors who got
fired after day three at the lead. I mean, that's terrible,
but that's because they weren't good enough.
Speaker 2 (07:16):
I mean, remember when.
Speaker 3 (07:17):
You cast somebody, you could cast them right here in
this office and you think they're fabulous, But when you
put them on a fourteen thousand foot square square foot
stage with four cameras in their face, they may turn
into this whole other person and be scared whatever, and
it doesn't work and you never see the person you
saw here on that stage and that I've seen that
happen a few times.
Speaker 2 (07:39):
But he did great job. Charles Levin, Yes, thank you
playing Coco the gay housekeeper house polls boy. Yeah.
Speaker 5 (07:48):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:49):
And it wasn't his fault, yeah, because they basically were
just like, oh no, we can there's rumor that he
was He was even added because they were a little
worried about an all female show. I don't know that. Okay,
I wasn't there. You weren't there for that. I weren't
there for that.
Speaker 5 (08:05):
No.
Speaker 2 (08:05):
I'm also I also found out we just covered facts
of Life, and I didn't realize facts of Life was
moved to Saturday night and became the lead in for
the opening of The Golden Girl.
Speaker 3 (08:16):
Really, and do you know about the actual opening of
the show, the main title opening of the show.
Speaker 2 (08:22):
I heard that you might have had something to do
with it. The iconic theme song. I do want to
ask you about Cindy E v. Cindy F. So I
would love to know about the theme song and the
opening credit.
Speaker 3 (08:39):
So I was there when she sang the song. I
was in the studio. She did it in one take,
and after one take she said, Okay, you got it,
and Tony said, no, no, you got to do it again.
Speaker 2 (08:49):
We need at least two.
Speaker 3 (08:50):
And I mean, I understand that you always because you
never know, right, you have to have at least two.
But she did it in one take. And good for
her because she put her children to college on that
one song.
Speaker 2 (09:01):
Right, Yeah for her.
Speaker 3 (09:03):
So we were about four episodes in but not on
the area yet, and Tony said to me one day,
you know, we've been taking these meetings with main title
companies who pitching all kinds of things, flying the ladies
to Miami and.
Speaker 2 (09:17):
Blah blah blah blah blah all this.
Speaker 3 (09:19):
He said, nothing and twenty five thousand, thirty thousand, forty
thousand to do a main title for He said, nothing's
tweaking our propellers. You know, nothing at all. And I said, well,
we know what the song is, obviously. Let me take
the raw footage of four episodes and go into an
edit bay for a day and let me just you know,
screw around with it.
Speaker 2 (09:38):
He said, you go, go go.
Speaker 3 (09:40):
You know, I'm not an editor, but I know music
and I know and I like picking clips because I
did it on soap all the time, and frame for frame,
what I came out with has been on the air
for forty years at had costed of about twenty five
hundred bucks.
Speaker 2 (09:54):
Did you get to pocket the rest of it? Because
I that is amazing? Yeah, that is, and because you
know television by this point you knew what you were doing.
Speaker 3 (10:05):
But also remember, and Tony was very right about this,
the main title doesn't sell a show, and especially nowadays,
you watch it once and then it's skip intro, skip intro,
skip intro. Right, But that is the only thing that
gets me truly emotional about that show. If I see
that main title, I think about all that went into
it and the story behind it is remarkable.
Speaker 2 (10:26):
That is that is remarkable.
Speaker 4 (10:28):
I was going to ask, do you know how they
picked the song or how that song? Because it was
I believe it was a hit song before was it?
Did it become a hit song afterwards?
Speaker 2 (10:38):
It wasn't.
Speaker 3 (10:38):
It was a hit song before what's his name recorded it?
Speaker 2 (10:43):
That I oh, yeah, yeah, I know it if you
told me, but I don't recall right.
Speaker 4 (10:47):
Now, it's not Harry Nilsen, is it?
Speaker 2 (10:49):
No? Okay?
Speaker 3 (10:51):
And I have to tell you a funniest side story.
A couple of years ago, my husband and I went
to Chicago because you know what the second city is, right, Okay, Well,
I was their guest speaker and it was a really
phenomenal experience for me to be able to do that.
And we said, oh, we're going to go to Chicago.
(11:11):
Let's see if the Cubbies are playing Chicago Cubs.
Speaker 2 (11:15):
So they were.
Speaker 3 (11:16):
We got great seats and we're sitting there before the
game started and talking to a couple guys sitting to
the left of my husband, who's sitting to the left
of me, okay, and they're playing music over the speakers,
and all of a sudden, what starts to play, not
the Cindy fe version, but the song thank You for
Being a Friend. And my husband turns to these two
(11:38):
guys and says, do you know what that song is?
And a guy said, oh, yeah, that's a theme from
the Golden Girls. And my husband points to me and says,
my wife produced the first three seasons of the Golden Girls.
And the guy's eyes popped out of his head and
he leaned across my husband and said to me, you
know you're a gay icon, right, And I said yes,
(11:58):
and I wear the title prow.
Speaker 2 (12:03):
Is that funny? That is?
Speaker 3 (12:05):
It wasn't even the Cindy Fee There was no not
even words.
Speaker 2 (12:08):
It was just the melody it was playing. Wasn't that funny?
And it was written and recorded by Andrew Gold That's right, Andrew,
And yes, yes, that is amazing. That song is amazing.
That opening credit sequence. And as a person who grew
up in the eighties, the opening credit sequence were important
(12:28):
because they carry a lot of resonance now, right. And
I think Sharon and I talk about missing them a
little bit, Like I liked that the Game of Thrones
had an opening credit sequence and music that became iconic
to it. I kind of missed them, and I definitely
missed the songs. So that's one of the reasons I
(12:49):
wanted to have her on. I'm very excited about those
songs and those song writers and song singers. Great cool,
all right, so you're coming on Golden Girls. You fixed
the opening credits, you saved them twenty two thousand dollars.
It sounds like this was a hit almost from the
first taping, Like you knew it was resonating with audiences.
(13:12):
It was it was.
Speaker 3 (13:13):
There was nothing like it on TV, and as soon
as it hit their waves, you know, you never know.
It doesn't matter what the ratings are in the first week,
does not matter, right because everyone tunes in to see
what it is. Week three is what tells you if
the show.
Speaker 2 (13:27):
Is going to be a hit or not. Okay, makes sense,
mm hmm. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (13:31):
So we knew by the end of the third fourth
week that something crazy was happening because there was a
lot of press starting to happen. The ladies were so iconic,
the three, especially you know, Stell came from just off
a Broadway, so nobody really knew her. But I said
to Stelle, don't you because the other ladies were getting
(13:53):
more publicity than her, And she voiced it to me
one day. I said, Estelle, be patient, you wit, It's
all going to happen for you. I guarantee it. Just
be patient.
Speaker 2 (14:05):
And that's what happened. Yeah, that's it. I mean, she
became as iconic as the other three who had been
on television for forever, forever.
Speaker 3 (14:15):
Yeah, and to this day, people still don't know that
she was the second youngest of them.
Speaker 2 (14:19):
All that being funny, the ages and the whole age
thing is very insane.
Speaker 3 (14:26):
Right, Well, we had a four thousand dollars human hair
wig on our head, so that helped a lot.
Speaker 2 (14:30):
Yeah, yeah, I hope somebody treated that preciously.
Speaker 3 (14:36):
Yeah, it was very unfortunate that she passed away of
Alzheimer's and we didn't know back in those days, the
mid eighties, what was dementia, what was alsheimer's. But she
had a lot of trouble. It's not a secret. She
had a lot of trouble remembering her lines. And her
lines were written all over that set, All over that set,
(14:59):
every cupboard, every table, every everything had her.
Speaker 2 (15:01):
Lines were written on her hand.
Speaker 3 (15:04):
Oh yeah, yeah, that's where we had to give her
that note to wash your hands, because when we did
the early show, we taped every show twice five o'clock
and seven.
Speaker 2 (15:12):
Thirty, and you tape both shows with an audience.
Speaker 3 (15:15):
Yes, okay, and then we did it the best of
both together. So we had to tell her to wash
her hands because she made a gesture and we saw
the line written our hand, like, excuse me, that's not
going to work.
Speaker 2 (15:28):
So yeah, that must have been very hard. That's hard
when another cast member is enabled to that. That's hard
on the other cast members. It's hard in a sitcom
when you're moving so quickly.
Speaker 3 (15:40):
Right, But by the time I left, we were doing
que cards for her.
Speaker 2 (15:44):
Okay, yeah, And did it cause attention or were people understanding? Well?
Speaker 3 (15:50):
The ladies were so professional. I mean, we know the
controversy between Bee and Betty.
Speaker 2 (15:55):
Yeah, I do want to ask you about that.
Speaker 3 (15:58):
But it was tough because we didn't know what it
was and we'd be at a reading on a Monday.
We don't shoot it till Friday. I remember specifically what
the line even was. And the table reads were so
much fun because the scripts were so good, especially in
those early days, right, and we and Estelle just stops
the reading and says, I'll never remember that line. And
(16:20):
the director says, it's so funny a Stelle. It's not
going to change for five days. No, But that's how
difficult it was. It was sad, yeah, but she she
was a trooper boy, and she pulled it off for
seven years, right.
Speaker 2 (16:35):
Well, which is you know when you think coming from
the theater, oh, you can memorize anything, but you're not
doing different shows. That's right.
Speaker 3 (16:41):
That's why it was so much easier doing theaters. The
same lines every day, every day for you lock it
in years exactly?
Speaker 2 (16:47):
Sure.
Speaker 5 (16:49):
Can I ask a question about the wig?
Speaker 2 (16:51):
Yes?
Speaker 5 (16:51):
Do you remember did jose Norman? Did the wig have
no clue?
Speaker 2 (16:56):
That's all the hairdresser asked Joyce Melton?
Speaker 5 (17:00):
Oh, Joyce was your okay? So it wasn't to say
I just went yeah.
Speaker 3 (17:04):
Joyce Melton was the head hairdresser.
Speaker 5 (17:06):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (17:06):
Yes, I'm soap too, okay? And then so it was
there is It is sort of famous that b Arthur
did not really like that he white. Well, let me
put it to you this day.
Speaker 3 (17:21):
Those two couldn't warm up to each other if they
were cremated together. Does that kind of tell it to
you in a sentence?
Speaker 2 (17:28):
And was it just the personality? Could it have been resolved? No, okay,
I don't think so. But remember they were so professional
that the second that red light went on, they were
the consummate professionals. B came from the theater. B was
a theatrical actress, despite all the success she had on TV,
(17:48):
which we know was a lot, right, B, don't forget,
was a marine. She drove trucks in the Marines, and
she was a tough broad right, So when we would
do in front of an audience. We would shoot a
scene and then okay, moving on, and they would go
to do a wardrobe change or just move to the
next set. Betty would sometimes break character and go talk
(18:11):
to the audience and be hated that. Hated that because
theater that's not allowed. You don't do that.
Speaker 3 (18:18):
You know, it breaks the rhythm to her, you know,
it's kind of yeah, and okay, I get that, I
get that. But again they I'll tell you, you know,
my husband shot some very iconic pictures of the ladies
and I don't know if you remember in your research
if you found that the old show This is Your
Life with Ralph Edwards did a surprise to Betty White. Okay,
(18:42):
this is your life, Betty White. And when they when
that show contacted us about doing that. We then went
to the ladies except for Betty, of course, to say
will you help us pull off the surprise? And of
course of Stelle said yes, and Ruth said yes, and
Be said, not a chance, not going to do it.
So the executives went to my husband and said, Wayne,
(19:04):
please talk her into it. Make it so it's a
photo shoot something really fast and you'll be there because
she loves you, and so Wayne is the one that
got it to happen. And so during this quote unquote
fake photo shoot, all of a sudden, Ralph at George
walks in and he has the perfect shot right when
Betty was surprised, which I'll show you later.
Speaker 2 (19:26):
Oh my gosh. Yeah all right, so he's he's kind
of the bee whisperer. Yes, yes, yeah.
Speaker 3 (19:33):
She actually called the house one day and said, Wayne,
I just bought a brand new BMW and the cassette
player doesn't work. I need you to come over to
my house. She doesn't live anywhere near us, but he
went to her house. He said, okay, b what's the problem.
And my husband is a tech genius.
Speaker 2 (19:48):
Okay. So sat in their.
Speaker 3 (19:50):
Car, she said, okay, here's the cassette. She puts it in,
she said it doesn't play. He said, okay, let's turn
the car on, and she gave him the b Arthur
look and he said, you know, should I leave now?
Speaker 2 (20:06):
Yes, get out of my car.
Speaker 4 (20:11):
Yeah that look that's fantastic.
Speaker 2 (20:13):
Yeah, we know that look very well.
Speaker 4 (20:16):
How did rue McClanahan navigate legate the tension between the
other Betty and be.
Speaker 3 (20:24):
Easily easily It was easy really because it wasn't terribly blatant.
Sometimes it got out of control. The script supervisor could
tell you more about that than me, because she was
on stage the whole seven years with the Wonderful Ladies.
But and I hear things secondhand sometimes. But it was fine.
(20:45):
That lasted seven years. But it's because Beide said no
way to an eighth year. It was because of that
that the show did not come back for an eighth year.
The other three said yes, well let's keep going, and
be said, no chance. She was done, and that's when
Golden Palace was born, which we know what happened there.
Speaker 2 (21:04):
Yeah. Now were you part of Golden Palace?
Speaker 5 (21:06):
No?
Speaker 2 (21:07):
No, I was gone? Was gone? You were gone. Yeah.
So it's interesting because I'm wondering if you ever worked
with two male actors who kind of didn't like each other. Oh,
that's an interesting question. I don't think so. No, there
was never tension on set between two male actors that
you were shows you were on. No, I don't think so.
(21:28):
I no, Okay, oh I think she did? You just
think of something?
Speaker 3 (21:37):
I thought of a great story on the show I
did with Danny Thomas called One Big Family. But it
wasn't tension, but we had an actor on the show
who would throw tantrums once in a while, and how
what happened on a particular day that it's quite the story,
a great story.
Speaker 2 (21:55):
You'd have to probably edit it out, but it's a
great story. You better tell us off the air, because
I will make a note. Yeah, yeah, just say one
big family, one big family.
Speaker 3 (22:07):
Yeah, it's a great story. It's a great Marsha's story.
Speaker 2 (22:11):
Listeners, I have a whole list of things to ask later.
I'm sorry we can't include you, right, but there's so much.
I asked that question because it you know, we hear
a lot about, you know, the ladies of the eighties
and their relationships, and I sometimes think that women are
judged more harshly for their behavior, for them being quote
(22:37):
unquote difficult on set than men are.
Speaker 3 (22:42):
Well in front of the camera, behind the camera. Yeah,
I mean, you could ask me if I ever been
a victim of a me too movement experience, and I
would say to you, I've never been a victim of anything.
I've had those experiences. But you already know me for
ten minutes. You know I can handle myself, right, Yeah,
And I have had those experience ch answers that I
would say most women would have not been able to
(23:04):
handle the way I did because I got a mouth
on me and a brilliant sense of humor. I think
it right when I need it. And so yeah, that's
stories for Off for Off. Yeah, we're make a note
right right right for me too, Just write me too,
because the stories are quite remarkable of these guys who
(23:27):
try to pull something off and I stopped them in
their tracks in the best way.
Speaker 4 (23:33):
Yes, it's hard to believe that there haven't been instances
across the depth and breadth of Hollywood where male co
stars did not get along, But there doesn't seem to
have been the same expectation for them to be able
to get along in the same way it is for women.
(23:53):
You've got four women on the show, Supposedly they're best
friends in real life, just as they are on the show,
even though they're acting as their job to pretend to
be best friends on the show. And when men are
on shows and they're supposed to be best friends and
maybe they get along, maybe they don't, there isn't doesn't
seem to be the same expectation that they're also you know,
(24:15):
fast friends and seeing each other and you know, running
around together as friends outside of when they're not working.
But we'll just chalk it up to everything.
Speaker 3 (24:25):
Else exactly exactly how we navigate those things, right.
Speaker 2 (24:30):
Do you think it was more difficult for you to
rise up in the rinks of producer or break in
And we talked about that a little bit because you
were a woman.
Speaker 4 (24:42):
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(25:03):
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Speaker 2 (25:25):
And we're back.
Speaker 3 (25:28):
You know, I never ever thought about it that way,
because I just looked at it as I'm going to
do the best I can of what happens happens, and
that's All I focused on was just be really good
at what I did, with the greatest attitude ever and
no negativity ever, unless it was with my door closed
(25:49):
to myself with a bottle of booze. But I never
thought of it that way, and it was only until
those little me to movement things happened that I, oh,
my goodness, look at these guys, thinking they're all that,
but they're not, which made me laugh.
Speaker 2 (26:06):
Yeah, seriously, Now, did you work on any of the
Golden Girls international versions? I was gone, you were gone? Okay,
so you left Golden Girls? Yes, and you went. Let's see,
I did a show called I started working at? What show?
Did I do at Paramount with? Oh?
Speaker 3 (26:25):
Yes, I did, amen, Oh yes, yes, okay, yes, I
loved Sherman. I loved that cast. But I can tell
you here we go again. I did the third season
of that show. I started at the very beginning of
the third season. I was the fifth producer in the
(26:46):
job because the executive producer was such a piece of
work and had quite the reputation that the girl who
had the job to producers before me left with the
bleeding altar and her hair was falling because she did
not know how to handle this guy. He was He
was the walking reason for twin beds.
Speaker 2 (27:07):
Of course, but I.
Speaker 3 (27:14):
I found a way, Yes, yes, And I will tell
you one great story about this guy. That we were
in a camera blocking run through. Okay, so we're in
the booth, the cameras are there, and he used to
pace back and forth behind the director. It was terrible
that he did that. And I was sitting in the
(27:36):
row right behind them. Okay, so you picture that the
front row. He's pacing between us.
Speaker 5 (27:43):
Right.
Speaker 3 (27:44):
So they're doing the rehearsal. An actor misses a line,
flubs a line, and he takes his script and goes, god,
damn it and hits me right on my hand and
I yelped, and he never.
Speaker 2 (27:57):
Said a word to me.
Speaker 3 (28:00):
Next day, tape day, the front row is there. Nobody
else is there, but the front row's getting ready for rehearsal.
Before the audience comes in.
Speaker 2 (28:07):
I walk in. They all look at me and they said, Marsha,
please don't do it. He's going to fire you. Please.
Speaker 3 (28:12):
We love having you here, everybody loves you. Please don't
do this. He's going to fire you. And I had
a pair play deal, so I didn't care. I mean
do you fire me after day one? You got to
pay me for twenty two episodes, right, So I said, look,
a girl's got to do what a girl's got to do.
And I took my place and I sat down, and
(28:33):
in he walks, and he comes over and he says
to me, what are you doing? And I said, well,
yesterday you hit me and you hurt me, so today
I'm ready take your best shot. And I was sitting
there in a full catcher's outfit and he didn't talk
to me the rest of the day, but he didn't
(28:55):
fire me. So girl's got to do what a girl's
got to do.
Speaker 2 (29:00):
Absolutely, yeah, he was.
Speaker 3 (29:05):
I mean I saw him, you know, put his fist
in the wall, kick a table, chase a runner down
the stairs, throwing things up, you know.
Speaker 2 (29:12):
Yeah. It takes all kinds, right, yeah, but you know, yeah,
but that behavior, you know, I don't know. Brilliance has
no excuse for bad behavior, no right.
Speaker 3 (29:22):
And I will tell you that he co created the
Cosby show. He was making so much money when I
was working with him, so much money. But I heard,
and I'm pretty sure it's true that after they shot
the pilot of Cosby, Cosby went to NBC and said,
either he goes or I go. So the guy had
(29:44):
a reputation. I'm not talking out a turn. The guy
had fifth.
Speaker 2 (29:47):
I was the fifth person.
Speaker 4 (29:49):
Really yeah, really yeah.
Speaker 2 (29:52):
So but you stayed on Amen just for a season.
Speaker 3 (29:56):
Okay, I can only take one season. I said, think
of it like a kidney stone. It'll pass. It'll pass
every day. I'd say that be painful, but it'll pass.
So after twenty two I said, I'm out.
Speaker 2 (30:10):
Now you worked briefly, at least according to IMDb, what
I do on It's a Living. I did the pilot.
You did the pilot. Yeah, okay, we've talked about It's
a Living on this show. We had on Angelian No close.
We were close. She was going to then she said no.
(30:32):
You know, there's a number of women that we get
to and then they get nervous and they start to say, well,
I don't know, I don't I don't want to talk.
And I think, you know, I think that sometimes sometimes
women have are more afraid to say to tell their story,
(30:53):
and it's just easier to not. I don't have that problem. No,
you do not. I appreciate that so much. We talked
to Paul Krepple because every guy will come on our show. Yes,
I have no problem. He's great, he's he was delightful.
Speaker 3 (31:10):
And you're talking about working with Jay Johnson. Yes, and
winning a Tawny on Broadway show, which is an astonishing
show that Jim does. Astonishing. I've seen it five times.
Speaker 2 (31:21):
Oh my gosh. Okay, I have not seen it, but
I did hear about it. How was that? How was
that working on the pilot of this show? That was great? Yeah,
it was funny. It was fun.
Speaker 3 (31:33):
No, and I'm kind of glad I didn't do this
series because I was doing other stuff, which I don't
remember at this time, but I did after I am in.
Then I started working at that was at Paramount. Then
I started working at twenty Century Fox, and I worked.
I did a lot of stuff there for like seven
or eight years before I Then I did a pilot
for CBS, and then I got out.
Speaker 2 (31:55):
And what made you decide I'm done? I wasn't having
fun anymore. I didn't.
Speaker 3 (32:01):
I'd already done close to four hundred episodes. And I
remember saying to Wayne, look, I know you're an artist
and that's a tough life and everything, but we're gonna
pay off our house.
Speaker 2 (32:11):
I'm out. I just wasn't having any fun anymore. So
I've been retired for like twenty two years, but it
sounds like you've been keeping busy. I'm very busy.
Speaker 3 (32:23):
Yeah, because I do college lectures. And that's the joy
of my life, which I know is the thing you
were going to talk about. That's the joy.
Speaker 2 (32:30):
Yeah, So that's what's giving you joy is college lectures.
And do you talk about different things? Do you have
a sort of a set thing that you talk about.
Speaker 3 (32:39):
It's always the kids who want to get in the business.
And because of my story of coming from nothing right
and all that which you've heard, they realize what's possible.
Because I'm not preaching from a book. I pull no punches,
I swear like a sailor, and I bring my sense
of humor as you know, and they and inevitable. There's
(33:00):
one person in every class who says to me, you
just change my life because I give them. I tell them,
despite everything, I'm the most encouraging and inspiring and motivating
person they've ever met in their life because I went
through it okay. And the first thing I always ask
(33:22):
them is how many of you have parents who don't
want you to get in this business, and half the
hands go up right, And then I tell them how
to think about that, what to think about that while
I'm swearing along the way, and it changes their life
because then they think now, it's almost like giving them
permission to think a different way, to have a dreamy Yeah, yeah,
(33:47):
dreams have no deadlines. Okay, that's a quote from Mellow
cool J. I'll give him credit for that. It's a
great quote. But again, as I said to you at
the beginning, when I say to them, do you want
to go through life wondering? What if it's not gonna
feel very good?
Speaker 2 (34:01):
So why?
Speaker 3 (34:02):
And you can't fail ever, unless you never try in
the first place. If you try it it doesn't work out,
that's called it just doesn't work out. Even if it's
a relationship, you try it, if it doesn't work out,
that's not a failure. Take that word out of your life.
It just doesn't work out. It just doesn't work out.
But you can say I tried. That's a badge of honor.
Speaker 2 (34:23):
I tried.
Speaker 3 (34:25):
That's the way I look at it. That's my opinion,
and I'm sticking to it.
Speaker 2 (34:28):
I love that. So what has changed your life? What
has changed my life? Well, which moment was it that
made you go.
Speaker 3 (34:40):
Well, it was when I got the call from MGM
and I said, Dad, I've made it two hundred dollars
a week plus over time. My life just changed. That's
truly remarkable because it was a trajet, the start of
the trajectory.
Speaker 2 (34:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (34:54):
But I wonder, no doubt, I wonder if it actually
might be the second time you came to LA and
you stuck it out for two years before you got
that call from MGM. Because if you hadn't, if you
had called it quits at that point, there would have
been no call.
Speaker 3 (35:10):
Of course, of course, Yes, that's true, very true. Those
are interesting days for sure. Going to the pawn shop.
Oh my goodness, that was humiliating.
Speaker 2 (35:22):
But I did it. But you did it, Yeah, and
you got through. I got through.
Speaker 5 (35:27):
Right.
Speaker 2 (35:28):
Are you still in touch with people? Who are you
still in touch with? Well?
Speaker 3 (35:32):
I just got a call from Tony Thomas the other day,
who had spoken to once in forty years, because Disney
and ABC News are going to do a special for
the fortieth anniversary of the show this.
Speaker 2 (35:44):
Year for Golden Girls. Okay, believe it or not, forty
forty years. Is that possible?
Speaker 3 (35:51):
I think I'm only twenty five. It's just my body
thinks I'm an idiot.
Speaker 2 (35:57):
So there it is. You can bleep that out, like
where did the time go? I just it's difficult as
you look.
Speaker 4 (36:07):
Back on all the things you've done and all the
things you've seen and people you've met. What for you
are the highlights of your career and the things you're
able to accomplish in your career.
Speaker 3 (36:18):
Well, everything that I've done in this business, to me
is an accomplishment everything for me. How great is it
to get a call from a studio that says so
and so producer has requested you come on. That's a
big deal. And that happened a few times. That was
a very big deal for me, Like, oh, I didn't
(36:39):
have to go searching for anything, I just got that call.
Speaker 2 (36:41):
That's really great.
Speaker 3 (36:44):
No, getting married, that's a huge thing to somebody that
in this business. To still be married to forty one
years later is quite remarkable, considering I used to be
the queen of the one night stand back in the day.
You know when the most use word of my vocabulary
was next.
Speaker 2 (37:00):
So you know, what can I say? It was the seventies.
Speaker 3 (37:07):
Yeah, I consider waking up every day an accomplishment these days,
and every day above ground is an accomplishment. You know,
it's not our abilities that show who we are. It's
our choices that show who we are. Right, So, you
can be the greatest writer or the greatest producer, but
if you choose to be an asshole, I have no
(37:28):
respect for you because you made that choice. Right.
Speaker 2 (37:32):
So I.
Speaker 3 (37:35):
Just every day is to me is just an amazing day.
And I look back on my career, which I now
say is like World War Two. It's history, but it's
still I not only achieved what my original goal was,
which was to work in this business, I actually overachieved.
Speaker 2 (37:57):
How often does that happen?
Speaker 3 (38:00):
Dad used to say to me, you know, I'm becoming
known as your father. It does it get better than that?
Speaker 2 (38:05):
It doesn't. It doesn't.
Speaker 3 (38:08):
And my sister was became a judge at twenty five,
so you know, we we were considering we both lost
our mother at an early age. I'm so proud of
the two of us for doing what we did in life.
It's pretty remarkable. So I'm grateful every day also that
I married a man who thinks I'm the funniest person
on the planet, so that helps a lot.
Speaker 2 (38:29):
That does help.
Speaker 4 (38:31):
Is there anything you miss about not working in Hollywood anymore?
Speaker 2 (38:35):
Not a nano second? How does it feel to win
an Emmy and Golden Globe? Well? Did I just talk
about overachieving? Do you have one in your house? I
have two Emmys in my house? And where did they
sit on the mantle? They the mask?
Speaker 3 (38:57):
Because when I have young people come over and they
see the reality of that, and I always say, do
you want to take a picture with it?
Speaker 2 (39:05):
And they always say yes. It gives them a whole
new push. Now they know what's possible.
Speaker 3 (39:13):
And when I do college lectures locally, like I only
go to I would never speak at USC or UCLA
because my own story of struggle doesn't appeal or doesn't
apply to that. But for example, I go to Stockton, California.
They have a community college there that's about twenty five
(39:34):
thousand strong. Okay, A lot of the kids in the
media department come from nothing, and they have the most brilliant,
brilliant professor who is the most amazing woman I've ever
met in my life. She's originally from Costa Rica, and
the way she teaches, and the fact of how inclusive
(39:55):
and all of that she is of everybody well spoken
to that class thirteen times at the end.
Speaker 2 (40:03):
We have a routine.
Speaker 3 (40:05):
The last thing I say in my lectures, I say,
here's the last thing I want to say to you
before I go. I'm not going to tell you it's
going to be easy, but I will tell you it'll
be worth it. And out comes the Emmy and they
all go out of their minds. And then they line
up wanting to have a picture taken with it, and
I let each one of them hold it and they
(40:26):
feel what they get energy from it.
Speaker 2 (40:30):
How it's got to wait. Oh, it's very heavy, they're
very heavy.
Speaker 3 (40:33):
But how how fantastic is that to see their faces
light up with such joy of what's possible? Because that's
what I always tell them. Don't let people tell you
it's not possible. Don't let somebody who probably gave up
on their dreams talk you.
Speaker 2 (40:49):
Out of yours. Don't don't do that. This is your choice.
Don't let don't let somebody take your power away from you.
Why would you do that? Why? Why? Why?
Speaker 3 (40:59):
And then they get very empowered by that. It takes
that outside voice to tell you something sometimes, right, Yes,
if your parents are telling you, some of your siblings
are telling your best friends, but somebody completely unknown tells
you somebody a boom, a light goes off.
Speaker 2 (41:14):
Yeah, it's joyful, that's amazing. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (41:17):
How did you get started doing lectures or speaking to students?
Speaker 2 (41:20):
How did that come about?
Speaker 3 (41:21):
It started a really long time ago when I was
a script supervisor believe it or not, on soap and
I went to Chico State and talked to one hundred
and twenty kids and it just started. And what I
love telling them too, is I started as the secretary right.
As an example, remember I was a script supervisor on
(41:44):
soap and then I got kicked upstairs. The girl who
replaced me as a script supervisor was also the script
supervisor when I went to Night Court, And during that
year or season on My Court, she used to say
to me, I just want to I just want to
write comedy scripts. Encourage her and encourage her.
Speaker 2 (42:01):
Well, guess what.
Speaker 3 (42:02):
That young girl went on to become the co executive
producer of Two and a half Men. Okay, So there's
so many stories like that. It's not just me and
I tell them, whether it's a music department. One of
my roommates right took me in when I was homeless.
He came here from Texas because he wanted to be
a singing star. He went on to score every note
of music for.
Speaker 2 (42:21):
Saved by the Bell. I mean, it happens when you're
good at what you do. It happens so committed. That's
amazing commitment. Wow. All right, well this has been fantastic.
I'm so glad. I've had a good time us too.
We have had a blast. And it's Sharon, it's almost
(42:43):
like you were here, right, Yes, it was joyful. I
so wish I was.
Speaker 4 (42:48):
But yeah, we can't. We cannot, really cannot thank you
enough for sharing yours with us. It really means a lot.
I mean just mean a lot to our audience, but
my goodness, it means a lot to us too, to hear.
Speaker 2 (42:58):
I'm so glad. I'm so glad.
Speaker 3 (43:00):
But it just it gives me such joy to be
here and to let other people in on how I
think and stuff, and because if it affects one person,
yeah right, ye. Plus I just love telling the stories,
some of which we're not going to tell to roll offten.
Speaker 2 (43:18):
Okay, but you know, don't worry, Sharon and I will
get them and then they won't be able to tell
you listeners right right right, but we'll enjoy them exactly. Yes, yes, yes, yes,
all right, we have to let you go. Okay, but
don't worry. We're going to keep talking to her and
got stories. Thank you everybody for listening for our audiography today.
(43:42):
You can currently watch Golden Girls on Hulu and Disney Plus,
and it's available for purchase on Apple TV and Prime Video.
Speaker 4 (43:51):
And for those who are sick of streaming apps moving
everything around, the DVDs might be available at your local libraries.
Do check it out, or you can find box sets
on DVD at eBay.
Speaker 2 (44:06):
I'm recommending this short but very interesting TD Milestone series book,
The Golden Girls by Kate Brown. And you can check
out a book on soap, The Unauthorized Inside Story of
the Sitcom That Broke All the Rules by as Burman.
Links will be in our description. Okay, eighties TV ladies,
let's talk about night sweats. It's not glamorous, but it's
(44:29):
real and it's happening to me. My absolute life saver.
Cozy earth bamboo sheets. They're cooling and moisture wicking so
I can finally sleep soundly without overheating and the wetting
up everything. They are worth the hype. Visitcozyearth dot com
and use our exclusive Eighties TV Ladies forty one percent
(44:49):
off code forty one percent and that code is Eighties
TV Ladies.
Speaker 4 (44:55):
So listeners, as we've mentioned before, we really appreciate your feedback.
So if you like our show, please make sure to
leave us a rating and a review on Apple Podcasts
or Spotify or whatever platform you use. Our website is
Eightiestvladies dot com. We'd love to hear from you.
Speaker 2 (45:12):
We are coming up on our one hundredth episode of
Eighties TV Ladies. I can't believe it, Sharon and Melissa.
What should we do to celebrate?
Speaker 5 (45:22):
I think we definitely need to pop some champagne.
Speaker 2 (45:26):
Yeah, maybe a big cake. A big cake, Okay, I
like that. What else?
Speaker 4 (45:31):
Well, what about you?
Speaker 2 (45:32):
What do you think we should do? I would love
to do. I was thinking that we might do a
crazy loveboat cruise episode where we just pretend we're on
the love boat and talk about something or our one
hundredth episode. I don't know. I haven't figured it out.
Speaker 4 (45:50):
Well, listeners, if you have any ideas, we would love
to hear them, so send us a message at eightiestv
Ladies at gmail dot com or through our website site
eightiestv Ladies dot com.
Speaker 5 (46:03):
How should we celebrate one hundred episodes?
Speaker 4 (46:07):
Let us know, and as always, when we travel down
this road and back again, we hope Eighties TV Ladies
brings you joy and laughter and lots of fabulous new
and old shows to watch, all of which will bring
us closer to being amazing ladies of the twenty first century.
Speaker 2 (46:27):
Eight sand So Pretty.
Speaker 1 (46:30):
Eighties Into the City and Good Money Man World eighty
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