RERUN: Reflecting on Scarecrow and Mrs. King: An Interview with Martha Smith

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
This week, we're rerunning season one, episode six, Scarecrown, Missus
King with Martha Smith. This originally launched on September twenty eighth,
twenty twenty two, and this is our first actress slash
celebrity guest, and thank goodness it was Martha Smith. We
adored her. Her energy and enthusiasm is delightful and contagious.

(00:21):
I hope you enjoy this as much as we did.

Speaker 2 (00:25):
Hi their Eighties TV Ladies listeners, we want to take
a moment to remind you that your vote is your voice,
and your voice matters. This coming November is one of
the most important elections of our lifetime, so please make
sure you are registered to vote. You can go to
vote dot org to check your registration or sign up
and make sure that your voice is heard. That's vote

(00:48):
dot org, vote DOTRG.

Speaker 3 (00:57):
Bread through the City World.

Speaker 2 (01:09):
Hello everyone, Welcome to Eighties TV Ladies. I'm Susan Lambert
HadAM and I'm super nerdball Excited today and.

Speaker 1 (01:18):
I'm Sharon Johnson. We're your hosts and we're talking about
female driven TV shows from the nineteen eighties.

Speaker 2 (01:25):
And I am nerding out Sharon because we have another
special guest today from Scarecromis is King. Today we're going
to be talking about acting in the eighties Kate Jackson,
Bruce Boxleitner, and eighties hair with the actress who played
agent Francine Desmond in Scarecromas's King.

Speaker 1 (01:41):
And I have many, many questions about Animal House and
Love Sidney. Welcome to SMK Special Edition with Martha Smith Baddah.
Martha is probably best known for her motion picture debut
as the Southern cheerleader Barbara Babbs Jensen rival to John
Belushi's Blueto, and the comedy blockbuster Animal House. She's made

(02:04):
hundreds of TV appearances and shows from Days of Our Lives,
Happy Days, Charlie's Angels to Taxi.

Speaker 2 (02:11):
So welcome Martha Smith.

Speaker 4 (02:13):
We thank you, guys.

Speaker 2 (02:13):
I'm going to nerd out, so forgive me for that.

Speaker 4 (02:16):
I'll nerd with you.

Speaker 2 (02:17):
Okay, good. We have so much to talk about, but
before we get into all things SMK, we need to
talk about a couple of projects that happened before Scarecrow. Okay,
Animal House, Yeah, I mean things happened for you before that,
But Animal House, can you talk about did you know
what you were getting into with that movie.

Speaker 4 (02:36):
Not at all. Now is everybody's first movie except for
like Donald Sutherland and Tim Matheson movie. But so we
were all virgins. For the film scene and Animal House,
I got called in to read for the other role,
the other blonde head that always gets confused with me.
But you know that scene read in the script she
stands nude in front of the window and masturbates herself.

(02:56):
And there was another scene in the script that said
she's entered cheerly out, but she jumps up in the
splits with nothing on underneath her skirt and John Belushi
looks up. So I thought, somebody to do this right now,
My first film role, you know, had been fighting that image.
And I saw the other role, the son and cheer
leader who was just such a bitch, and so I thought, well,

(03:18):
this looks like a lot of fun. I could get
my teeth into that. And I asked him can I
read for Bobs? And they said yeah, And so that
was the genesis of how that came about. And no
nobody knew Landis knew John Landis our director. He sent
us a little kind of nineteen thirties postcards every day
in our mailbox at the hotel, and he sent us.
They would see, we're making a great movie. This is
going to be historic, this is legend. And he'd say
at the end of the scene, you know, this scene's

(03:39):
going down in history. Where I were right, nobody knew.
But it all came together in such a fresh way
that at that time hadn't happened. And I really attributed
so much that to besides casting, our writers were phenomenal
from Harvard Lampoo called National Mpoon, Doug Kenny who we

(04:00):
lost in nineteen eighty, and Harold Grammas and Chris Miller,
those guys, and then John Landis his spin on it
all also being very new to film. It's like his
second or third film, you know, and he had this
brnetic kind of comedy sensibility. So and BELUTIONI you know,
throw throw that in the mix from set at live
and boom it.

Speaker 2 (04:19):
Just it just did it amazing. And so you know,
those guys have a reputation. What was on.

Speaker 4 (04:27):
All of them?

Speaker 2 (04:28):
Belushi and all of them. But so was it like
professional on set? Was it like chaos on set?

Speaker 4 (04:34):
Well, there was a kind of organized chaos for the
comedy to spin. John Landis is a character who you
can tell in his films he is operating at a
different hyper speed than everybody else. So he's like he
funny throwing, you know, he's really on top of the rhythm.
But that was the chaos. The chaos was nothing to
do with jumble of Jumbalushi was a totally professional actor,

(04:56):
always on time, always there, did his role, new it
to do, very funny, very kind, and I loved the
working my head. I didn't see drugs. I'm sure I'm not,
you know, I'm seeing the stories and read the books
and all of that, and I know how he died.
But for his filming on the set of our movie,
he was there as an actor.

Speaker 5 (05:13):
You know.

Speaker 4 (05:14):
I went to a party at his house and even
then I did you know, it was a brunch, I
see anything. We all were to party. I don't know.
It's just something that was separate.

Speaker 2 (05:25):
What a phenomenal talent, And I just it's so funny
how many six degrees of separation there are. Because Eugenie
russ Lemming started with John Belushi and city so we
talked to her, you know, last week, and.

Speaker 4 (05:36):
So Kevin Bacon throw him into I know, they go.

Speaker 2 (05:39):
Everybody's connected everywhere around the world. Melissa has a question.

Speaker 4 (05:44):
No I have.

Speaker 5 (05:44):
I have a connection to both Tim Matheson and Harold Ramis. Okay,
rest in peace, Harold Ramis. Yes, he was great to
work with. I worked with him. He was directing a
TV movie that I was working on. You you were
working on what do you remember with the name of it? No,
it was you know, But it was really fun working
with him.

Speaker 2 (06:02):
He seemed like a sweetheart. Yeah, so Melissa was in
camera work for for many a year's many a decade? Yeah,
math Hason directed Without a Trace.

Speaker 4 (06:11):
Okay, all right, Tim's great, what a wonderful honor. He's
a gun in college is now.

Speaker 1 (06:20):
Hills and I have a good friend who is an
extra on Animal House. He was in the scene near
the opening of the show Where movie where there's a
party at the frat house. And what's hilarious about Dennis
is being able to see him on screenes he's wearing
the yellow sweater, and well, the yellow sweater, do.

Speaker 4 (06:42):
You really I think that's a great scene that I'm
in that scene.

Speaker 1 (06:47):
So you see him sitting over in the corner somewhere
with some people, and then they cut away to the
looking at the other direction. There he is going out
the door, So throughout the entirety of the scene you
see that. But he's also in in the scene where
the the pledges are being rousted out of bed and

(07:08):
they're lined up, and he's in that. He's one of
the guys in that as well. And he I was
just recently. I was just telling them recently that when
he was shooting it, he was a freshman at OU
and one day found a couch to sit on to
do some reading for a class, and here comes John
Belushi and sits down and they proceed to have a

(07:28):
lovely conversation for about an hour. Yeah, so you know,
I had nothing but great things to say about him,
which echoes exactly what you were saying as well.

Speaker 4 (07:35):
Yeah, and I hate what happens posthumously when they take
lots of these people and everybody's got flaws, but they'll
take them, magnify them, make them uber dramatic, like some
sort of novella, which they're doing right now with Hefner,
And it really bothers me when the dead person isn't
there to defend themselves going for this kill.

Speaker 2 (07:54):
You know, everybody's not one thing. So yes, so let's
talk about your playboy time, because that was a big breakthrough.
And so there's a good Segon you brought it up.
Let's go. But I mean, come on, you're from Midwest, right,
You're like you're young. Were you trying to be an
actress and a model?

Speaker 4 (08:15):
No, No, that was the least thing in my mind, honestly,
I was. I wanted to be a shrink. I wanted
to be a psychologist. And actually I had been accepted
to a community college at a very young age, but
they told me that they discouraged me from going on.
I was going to major in psychology. They said, you're
going to you know, not socially, it's not good for you.
It'll kill your passion for psychology. And so I went

(08:36):
and worked in medlititation instead. At that time as a
very young person in an extremely regressed war. But I
saw later on the similarity between you know, acting and
psychology and all of these other ologies that you just
take your character card. I wanted to be a professional.
I was in that era where that was what I
was going to do, but didn't get a full college education.

(08:57):
So my next goal was to get out of the
and to move into my own place. Very young and
get a little money to put down a brand. And
I took up modeling because my sister was a model,
and she had been in playbood before me. She had
been the top half of a rare bird. You probably
remember that.

Speaker 2 (09:16):
I don't, but I'm going to go look it up.

Speaker 4 (09:18):
But it was just one of those, you know, exotic pictures,
and so she kind of broken the ice for the family,
which is a very conservative family from the Midwest. Like
you say, so, I was modeling for in Detroit. When
you're a model, you're actually modeling for cars and windshield
washer wipers and generators and engines and glamorous work. So
I was modeling for an board motor company doing a

(09:40):
brochure for the new cars. And a guy walked in
and said he was a talent scout for Hefner, and
he was. In fact, he wasn't lying go figure. In
those days, people really work and he gets a little
kicked back for everybody gets accepted, right, And he said,
would you be interested in shooting the pictures? I said, okay,
why not, I'm thinking bread money, and we shot the pictures.
They went to Chicago. They called me in immediately to

(10:02):
fly into shoot and then they accepted me after the
test shoot and they I think this was like just
a few months before. You know how publishing is, There's
there's a lead time, right. They had to throw out
another person who was scheduled for my month, which was July,
and put me in really fast because they were excited
about it, right, because it was a really good shoot.
So that's what happened. That all happened really fast. They

(10:24):
hand you this contract and just say sign here while
you're shooting it. Okay, I'll sign it. He's a teenager.
I don't know you think about contrasts. So that's what
happens there, and that part of it is true. You
do get kind of wrangled into a lifetime in perpetuity
contract for all media ever invented in the future of
the universe. Yeah, every every picture you take, everything you

(10:47):
shoot ends up somewhere, you know, anytime you sign.

Speaker 3 (10:52):
Off on it.

Speaker 2 (10:52):
Wow.

Speaker 4 (10:53):
So I was really young. I got my I got
my rent.

Speaker 2 (10:55):
When I got your rent, you made rent.

Speaker 4 (10:57):
I did. I did, and still didn't want to be
an actress. I mean I had studied a bit, but
mostly more from the theatrical side, and that was just
kind of an anomaly. But they put me on the
road for like five or six years, a lot of travel.
I was representing the magazine for meet and greets and
the press and things like that, openings of whatever, and

(11:18):
so that they liked that I could walk and talk
at the same time as you can see Chatty Cathy's going.
And so that became a lot of travel and brought
me to La quite a few times, which I decided
I'd move out here, and then everything else happened by accident.

Speaker 2 (11:35):
Honestly, Well, it's beautiful weather out.

Speaker 4 (11:38):
Here, so yeah, you're here too, right.

Speaker 2 (11:41):
I am here too, And Georgia isn't terrible weather. It's
beautiful weather too. But I wouldn't I love the snow.
Yeah to visit, Yeah, but I wouldn't. I couldn't live
in it for very long.

Speaker 3 (11:51):
I don't say no.

Speaker 4 (11:53):
I got in my Impala. I had this big, green,
honking Detroit metal car, and I had cruise control, so
I thought it was suber cool through cruise control in
my car. So I'm doing like yoga pastors driving on
the freeway going to California. You're right on everything I
own in the back.

Speaker 2 (12:08):
Of the pala And what year is this. What year
is this?

Speaker 4 (12:11):
This is nineteen seventy five? I think pretty sure it
was seventy five. Yeah, And I'm an idea what I'm
gonna do, but I'm pretty sure I'm going to roll you,
sale it and go back to study. That was my plan.
And what happened was I was still modeling and still
working a playboy, and somebody called me at Universal Studios
to do an album cover for the music department. And

(12:34):
the guy that was there at the shoe, he said,
I really want you to meet my friend Bob la
Sangka upstairs in the tower. And Bob Lasenka was head
of casting for all Universal everything at the time. Older man,
very gentlemanly, and for some reason he did not hit
on me or anything like this, but for some reason
he said, this girl suld be a star like old Hollywood.

(12:56):
And he took me down the single Universal casting director
in the tower and introduced me in that same fashion.
Next thing I knew, I had like six roles at Universal,
the kind that you know you get stabbed and shot
and strangled and core formed to death. But that were
my first roles. We're all Universal, Oh my good. Then
Animal House came in shortly.

Speaker 2 (13:15):
There and then shortly after this. This is now. This
was my discovery today. Ebony Ivory and Jade Hotally, that
is so great. This is nineteen seventy nine TV movie
co starring Debbie Allen and Burke Comby and Nina Fosh
And we're gonna talk about her in a minute now.
It's not to be confused with Ebony Ivory and Jade

(13:37):
black'sploitation movie from nineteen seventy six. This is basically a
Charlie's Angels, right, like, yeah, it kind.

Speaker 4 (13:44):
Of And actually I did the first season of Charlie's
Angels with Kate, which is also ironic, and I did
How the West Was Won with Bruce Way before Scarecrow.
But anyways, back to Ebanie Irony j with Debbie. Wow, yeah,
that was everybody in town audition for that. And I
was not a singer dancer. I mean, I had son
and I have sung professionally, but it is I'm married

(14:05):
to a singer, so I know my level, my limits
very very modest and mediocre.

Speaker 2 (14:09):
You're beautiful, you have a like it's a beauty. I
saw the opening number. It's fantastic.

Speaker 4 (14:16):
Yeah, nobody dances like her. I mean, she's like and
so foor thing I felt sorry for because they throw
me in with her at very different levels, you know.
And but I got it and they kept telling you,
don't worry, we'll fix it in post. And I'm remember
the audition because I sang roll and I was dancing.

Speaker 2 (14:40):
It is fantastic. I only got to watch the first
ten minutes and I'm I'm I'm hooked. I'm gonna go
back and finish it. So Burt Combed stars as Mick Jade,
a former tennis bum turned to Las Vegas song and
dance man and who doubles as a private eye with
two female dancers, Ebony and Ivory, and the trio go

(15:01):
undercover to protect a lady scientist from an international hit
man as she heads to Washington, d C. From the
Middle East with her secret formula. Good god, that's a
great show.

Speaker 4 (15:14):
And doesn't that sort of bring a little bit of scarecrow?

Speaker 2 (15:18):
Sounds a little bit like scarecrow, Missus King? But how
adorable you and w I haven't are fantastic? Again, I
only got to watch ten minutes of it, But I'm
going to go back and think good enough anyway. But
you have a beautiful singing voice, and so did, but
you didn't train as a singer.

Speaker 4 (15:34):
I did a bit, and why was there was something?
It was it was abne av j, but there was
something else, like, well, my very first sad job, I said,
but that was just silly. I think it was for
ebane avged that I started the lessons maybe earlier, and
then I continued them and I actually met my husband
while singing. This is a good story. I'll give you

(15:55):
the story. It's fine, it's your choice. But dh one
had come to do a story on me as I
started a singing group. It was one of those strikes
we get intown. I always do another creative project when
we have a strike. So I had all my girlfriends,
a bunch of girls get together and we had a
friend who owned a cabaret in town. So we did
this group. I had a stand up bass and it

(16:15):
was kind of a cabaret weird show. But I wanted
to do a duet. There's a song that Tom Waitson
and Bett Midller did called never Talked to Strangers if
you know that one, and I wanted to do that
song really badly. So I needed a guy and I
was out VH one had done this show on me,
showing my singing at home with piano, and I said,
just use any of this footage you want. Don't use

(16:37):
the first fifteen seconds because it's off key. Well, VH
one used the first fifteen seconds. Martha smut is singing
for her supper, and you know, it was just this
pathetic character that was off the show Scarecrow and didn't
have anything going on. She was singing in this little place.
It was one of those I was so depressed watching
that show. I went to our local hangout and there
was they have people singing there, you know, if you're

(16:59):
good and even singing at this place. It was called
Backstage in Beverly Hills, and my husband was my now
husband was singing this amazing voice right and I'm really
drawn to voice, and he was singing. I don't remember
which song he was singing at the time, but I
went up to him and started singing with him. And
I didn't know then he never shares his microphone. But anyways,

(17:22):
where was really going well? And I asked him if
he could do a duet Tom Waits. He said yes,
he came for rehearsal. He did Tom waits so well.
I gave him six songs in the show. And here's
the fun part the show. We fell in love on
stage performing the show. I went on and it developed.
It was kind of the storylines like theater and music.
So these couple meets, they hate each other, they get together,
they love each other, they divorce, they get back together.

(17:43):
So while we're doing the show, he had fired my
bass player and hired a new one. He fired my
keyboard player and hired a new one. He fired the
backup singer and hired a new one. And then he
fired me, had a band and married me and had
a wife and a band. He never tells that part
of the story. He always says I saw him singing
and fell in love the.

Speaker 2 (18:02):
Story and that's the end of the story. I like
a record straight The record is now straightened. And then
I also want to talk about you start in an
episode of Taxi. You started in a lot of eighties television,
but Taxi I love.

Speaker 4 (18:16):
Yes, the best show, the best people, the best writers,
the best producers and directors. It was just a wonderful,
wonderful show.

Speaker 2 (18:23):
It totally holds up. We've been rewatching that too, because
this all started because my husband and I started rewatching
eighties television during the pandemic and yeah, and we actually
met because of our mutual love of Stephen Cannell shows.
But ultimately we've just gone through like the seventies and
the eighties a lot. And then I was like, well,
I really have something to say about all these ladies

(18:44):
in the eighties and what they were, and so, you know,
we had to make a podcast. But you started in
season three Elaine's old friend. I love that we're rewatching it.
The show holds up pretty well, I mean, like really
well so far. The writing is really great, the characters
are really great, the acting is really great, and the
guest stars are pretty amazing.

Speaker 4 (19:06):
And they were all so nice. Just a jug Hirsch
who was at the time he had the biggest dressing
room and he was like the star of the show.
He gave me his best room because I kind of
came into the last time. My quick study for everybody
in town kind of knew that. So I did these
jobs at the last minute. If you learn a script
in like thirty two minutes, yes I'll be there, you know.
So he gave me his dressing room. A dozen roses.
I mean just as a gesture of welcome to a

(19:26):
guest star. Wow, very sweet, very sweet.

Speaker 2 (19:30):
Oh my god. All right, well okay, I'm so excited. Okay,
but now now I think we have to get into Scarecrow,
Missus King, because that's the whole point of this show,
that's right. Oh yeah, I am interested in what you
were doing right before you got cast in Scarecrow, Missus King, Like,
how'd you get the gig?

Speaker 4 (19:45):
Do you want to know this?

Speaker 2 (19:46):
I do? We want to know.

Speaker 4 (19:50):
Nineteen eighty two was a really rough year, you know,
the stress test. I was checking every box off on
the show. I was in the middle of going through
a divorce. I had gone ear early in the year
to Korea to do a movie with Bick Moore, who
I got very close to during the filming. Later that
year he was to die, and then we also lost

(20:11):
John Belushi. In that year, I had been working on
a soap opera. Also, I did Days of Our Lives
and the The Ball of nineteen eighty two, maybe Keven
what months it was, But anyways, they fired me at
the end of the year. On Pearl Harvard Day, they
dropped the bomb on me and they fired me. Very unceremoniously,
I will say. And it was good though, because I

(20:36):
was playing with like crying surgeon that was always killing
my patients. One of them was my husband Oops. So
I called her Sandy oops Porton, doctor Sandy Morton, and
two days later after they fired me. It turned out
to be a good thing, which happens in life so often.
I went for Tony Randall over at Warner Brothers. This
is how it ties in. Tony Randall was looking for

(20:56):
a brand new lead on his show, which was Love Sydney.
You're familiar with that. Yes, that was the only American
TV show to star a closeted gay man. And yet
because at the time this was again the eighties, so
there was the special interests that we're trying to get
show not to do that, and so they had to

(21:17):
dance very carefully, and they brought me in as his
first female love interest. And this was the first time
they were going to really share with the audience that
he was actually a gay man. And I think this
Loved Sydney has taken from a movie at the same
name and about that where he actually was gay. They
were allowed to do that movie was different cause you
had sponsors and in persons. So this episode was like

(21:40):
a double episode tier jerker, and it's a sitcom, right,
but they wanted to introduce this character. My character has
no idea he's gay and why is he rejected me?
We fall in love and it's this really beautifully written.
And meanwhile, what happened was the head, the president of
Warner's Television, President of Warner's TV, came to our tape

(22:00):
and he was very impressed with my work. Now, my
work was really good because I had been going through
the divorce, had the doubts, and that the big fired
and all these things that it just happened. So I
had the tears were coming very naturally.

Speaker 2 (22:11):
A little bit of method going on there, and.

Speaker 4 (22:14):
He made note and it was shortly thereafter, like the
next month that the Scarecrow script came around and I
it was three years later that I found out that
he had shepherded me into that role and championed me. Now,
he said he didn't have to, you know, twist any
arms or anything, but he wanted to make sure that
I got the proper attention because he'd seen my work
in life and I did comedy and drama in that

(22:36):
in that particular show. Now The Sydney did not get
picked up for another season unfortunately, because I was going
to be I was really excited to work with Tony Randall. Yeah,
but then again how that all works out? Along Comb Scarecrow,
that along Comb Scarecrow, Long Comb Scarecrow.

Speaker 2 (22:50):
And so you had worked with Bruce and Kate before that, Yeah,
very small roles, yes, And so when you went in
did you know that you were did you know who
was going to be starring in it or was it
still all unknown for me?

Speaker 4 (23:05):
For my readings and my I had three auditions, it
was it was only called the Secret Kate Jackson Project,
and everything was very hush hush, So yeah, just like Scarecrow, right,
and they wouldn't give you the script, they just gave
him sides. So I just had my scenes. So I
was kind of had hard to put together who everybody was.
But I knew Kate, I didn't know Bruce. I don't
even know Bruce was brought on. At my first interview.

(23:26):
I went to read for Eugenie and Brett Eugenius liting
for Mary Hartman and Brad Buckner, and Eugenie read Kate's
role and we did a couple of scenes, and in
those scenes, I noticed because I had at the time,
I had this photographic memory, so I know everybody's lines
in every script. So I noticed she was changing the
lines a lot, and I'm thinking, well, that's weird. Maybe

(23:47):
she's just like watching me and not looking at her
script or something. And I just improbed and did it
a second callback, same thing, Eugenie changing the lines again. Okay,
it went really well and the laps were in the
right place. It was comedic foil. And then I found
out later about her second City background and all of that.

(24:07):
I knew about Mary Harton, but I didn't know. And
I found out later also that on Scarecrow we had
to very very very often work in pro. Scripts were
changed frequently, like while you're walking onto the set, well
the camera's action, so you had to think on your feet.

(24:28):
And I think I'm not positive, but I'm pretty sure
that's sort of what they were testing. Got down to
three people for the screen test.

Speaker 2 (24:34):
Do you know who the other two were?

Speaker 4 (24:36):
No, they were very beautiful. They were blonde, and we
were all in the hallway together and not looking at
each other and not talking to each other. But in
those days, you could. They had the final screen test
in just like an office room, and I was the
third one of the three to go in, and I
could hear the two before me and they're reading. I

(24:56):
kind of knew at that point because there is certain
comedic snap to find scene that has to be really crisp,
and the scenes they were doing, I just sort of
knew I could have fun with that. And I went
in the third knowing this is gonna be. My god,
I was so excited.

Speaker 2 (25:13):
Oh my god, So you're so you're excited you're shooting
a pilot. But like in some ways, like was Ebony
Ivory and Jada a backdoor pilot? Do you think were
they thinking of making a show?

Speaker 4 (25:23):
Was a pilot?

Speaker 2 (25:23):
That was a pilot?

Speaker 4 (25:24):
Yeah, I did quite a few pilots. It seems that
didn't get sold, so that the producer said, if it sells,
you know, they're all happy. If it doesn't sell, you
get the ballons. I don't think you saw the sequin
gowns we wore and in the Las Vegas show at
the Aladdin. So I've still got that gollon.

Speaker 2 (25:38):
You still got the gown? Oh wow, they are fabulous gowns. Again,
that that opening sequence. Very impressive, but all right, so
you get the pilot and then they shot the pilot
in d C. You guys shot the pilot in d C.
Did you go to d C.

Speaker 4 (25:50):
No, I didn't go d C. They shot a lot
of the external and filler stuff in d C with
Kate and Bruce, but none of us went to I
don't think Billy melrose Mel, I don't think he went either.
I'm not sure, but no, I didn't go to DC
the pilot. Let's see. We did the pilot in March
and then I got in a big motorcycle accident and

(26:13):
because they were having the you know, the big gallo
event that the networks have to show all the affiliates
around the country, it's called the Oh and O Event
Black Time thing. So I was in crutches and a
big cast for that because I'd just gotten at a
motorcycleice so I had to like hobble across the stage
with all the new stars just CBS. They would talk

(26:33):
about that, I don't think. And then then I went
on tour with Rod Stewart because we had a little few
months between, and that's another story. And then we came
back and did Yeah, then we came back to do
it got sold right away after it was shown to
the network. I got picked up for thirteen and we
started filming.

Speaker 2 (26:53):
I do want to come back to the Rod Stewart story. Okay,
that's a for a second, because that's hard to pass up.
You went on tour with Stewart.

Speaker 4 (27:00):
Body Wishes Tour. Yeah. I was good friends with Rita
Wilson at the time, and she had been studying in Europe.
I believe that's what she was going on. I was.
I decided to go to Paris because you know, we
were in between the pilot. You got like three months
between the pilot and the shoe day, so I knew
I had all this time. So once my leg field
that I could walk again and dance, I went to

(27:22):
Paris and first night I went to La Caapole, which
is a big, huge, nineteen twenty seven nas restaurant, enormous restaurant.
We go to the back booth and city. What next
to us in the next booth is a guy I
grew up with in nineteen seventies Michigan, Detroit. A rock
and roller. I knew because I've always been a rock
and roller and he's sitting there and I said, what

(27:43):
are you doing? He says, oh, I'm on tour with
my band, and he said you want to come with us?
So about two seconds later, after thinking it over really thoroughly,
I said, yeah, okay. It was Rod Stewart and it
was the Body Wish's tour and they were that next day.
I think we went to recite Paris, South France, Italy

(28:04):
kind of around and it was really really fun, really exciting.
You know. I thought it was like research for grand scene.

Speaker 2 (28:14):
Oh my god, that is hilarious. Okay, I wrote for
sure it was all for work. It wasn't for having
Oh no, I'm getting a picture now. Motorcycle rider were
running off with Rod Stewart's band. Yeah, okay, all right,
hard working, hard, play hard Martha Smith, Oh my god,

(28:38):
all I'm so excited.

Speaker 1 (28:39):
Okay, we're going to have to take a break here.
I think that's a great idea. Stay tuned for more
of our interview with Martha Smith from Scarecrow and Missus King.

Speaker 6 (29:00):
Some gowns have all the luck, Some gowns have all
the pain.

Speaker 1 (29:07):
This coal lots hard with rugs, doer sack.

Speaker 3 (29:11):
Gown starts back at missus King.

Speaker 4 (29:16):
Martha Smith.

Speaker 2 (29:20):
Works Hop plays Hak Martha Smith, Martha Smith. All right,
and we're back.

Speaker 1 (29:29):
Welcome back to part two of our interview with Martha
Smith from Scarecrow and Missus King. This is eighties TV ladies.

Speaker 2 (29:37):
And so suddenly you're on a hit show that's running,
and you know you have thirteen episodes.

Speaker 4 (29:43):
And mind you, I had just been divorced, kicked out
of my house. I had six days from I got
the show six days after I moved into a new place.
I didn't grab a roommate, find something, move all the boxes,
and that all happened. I didn't think i'd have, you know,
any money entergy war because I had started a greeting
card line, so all my money was tied up from

(30:03):
the soap opera in this in these car and so
we're just sitting at a warehouse and it was six
days and I had that. So then it becomes a hit.
You imagine these this like cast fading. Good luck that
I got, thank you.

Speaker 2 (30:15):
And so we sort of mentioned when we were exchanging
emails at the freend scene that Eugenie russ Leming and
Brad Buckner created was the Frenzine You liked the most.

Speaker 4 (30:25):
Yes, and that's just personal, because that's just I love
satire and I love comedy. Those are the things I love.
Those guys did it great. They knew it. That was
their genre. Now, I think if I were to look
more objectively and not just looking at myself what I like,
if I look at the whole big picture of the show,
the show was better when it became a little bit

(30:45):
more of a generic tone of the romantic comedy adventure
series that it ended up being as opposed to, There
was more bite in everything in the earlier this is
my opinion, but especially from my character only. So I
loved that, and I loved playing that. It turned out
that it wasn't loved by everybody, and so there was

(31:08):
some back and forth trying to figure out how to
work with that part of the character. And for a
while they just stripped it out and I became kind
of expositionary, like somebody billy line for pick up. Now
there's the file, I'll get the truck, Lassie. So for
a while that's what happened. But I think we rediscovered
her well.

Speaker 2 (31:27):
I think that it was one of the things that
I loved about the show really was that there was
another female agent. A right, huh. You could easily do
this show and it's just her in a sea of
male agents. But there was another female agent who was
clearly capable, who was clearly had her own agenda. Yes,
and that even though there was some snark, oh yes,

(31:50):
lots of snark. Yeah, yeah, in those early episodes, there's
a weird kind of I'll make room for you, but
I think you're an idiot, you know, like yeah, you know, yeah.
And so the fact that basically there were just two
very different women approaching a particular career in a very
different way. Yeah, felt very female driven because there were

(32:13):
two women doing something in the same space.

Speaker 4 (32:16):
I don't know between Eugenie and Brad, but that was
probably Eugenie's input that that part of the storyline and
the characters and a frend scene was so power driven
and she could have been easily a man in the script.
You can just take away her fashion sense.

Speaker 2 (32:30):
We could call it okay, okay, great, let's dive in.

Speaker 7 (32:34):
Come.

Speaker 2 (32:34):
Oh you're going to go there, you're gonna call the
We're gonna wait, but now we're going to do it, like, okay,
we got to talk about Francine's hair. Francene's outfits, costumes,
and hair huge and we know with women, particularly in television,
that there's a lot of discussion about what the women's
hair is going to be doing, at least there is now.

Speaker 4 (32:54):
So you see, this has like been my hair since
probably I graduated from my school un change, but I've
played those characters for The hairdresser was a lovely woman.
She's so sweet and so kind and I just hate
to say anything at all disparaging, but she was from
an era and styles that were considerably different than you know,

(33:16):
and that was the vision that she brought to the
early friend scene. As time went on, I got a
perm and I you know, everybody did in the eighties, right,
So I kept begging that they would let me kind
of go more natural in the makeup and the hair
because there was a lot of makeup too in the
earlier days, and then the wardrobe was not. So what

(33:36):
I ended up doing after season or two is I
made a big folder of what I thought fran scene
should look like. I just wanted to please help me
on this, you know, and your Winter producers and everybody,
and I showed him. I pulled all these tar sheets
out of bog and bizarre, and I saw her as
very sophisticated, very avant garden into fashion. But she used
fashion more like she used for words, kind of like

(33:58):
a weapon, her one upsmanship, you know what I mean.
She was really into that and her rivalry. So fashion
was part of it. I thought it was really important,
but it didn't quite get a cross. But things got
better and easier as as time went on.

Speaker 2 (34:13):
It was just a lot of a justice, all right,
all right, And I've been taking up a lot of time.
I've been taking a lot of questions, so I have
to have to hand them off to Sharon.

Speaker 1 (34:22):
Oh okay, well let's for the moment anyway, Let's stay
a little bit with you know, the hair and wardrobe, I, Sharon,
because I, as someone who worked in an office at
that time, there was a somewhat consistency with what women
were asked to wear at the time, So we're not
asked to wear but what was sort of this style

(34:45):
maybe a little exaggerated in some respects, but still Francine
looked like a professional woman of that time. It kind
of made sense. But I so.

Speaker 2 (34:54):
Did I put you on the spot? No, not at.

Speaker 1 (34:56):
All, not at all, because I mean in a lot
of ways, that was that sort of the lived experience.
But that said, I wasn't sure. I don't know anything
about the spy business, so I don't know that that's
necessarily what all was the female spies were wearing at
the time, but certainly.

Speaker 2 (35:12):
Those earrings, yeah, exactly.

Speaker 1 (35:15):
There were some times where I thought, really, but again,
it's a television show. So but I did like her.
I did like her style to a large extent, and
because she looked like a professional woman of that time
what people were wearing in the office. And I know
that the relationship between Francine and Kate Jackson's character evolved

(35:36):
over time, which I also appreciated. And it also kind
of brings me back to something else that you said
earlier about in the roles that you had over time.
You did comedy, you did drama, You did a lot
of different kinds of things. But did you have a
preference or do you have a preference in terms of
drama versus comedy?

Speaker 4 (35:51):
Oh man, take comedy any day of the week. I mean,
I just like hanging out with comics. I like funny people.
I really believe there's a higher value to making people
laugh beyond the obvious. It feels good. I think there's
even a medical value to that, and psychological certainly. I'll
take comedy and satire the finest form of comedy and

(36:13):
the hardest to write and really recognize. I think I'll
take that any day.

Speaker 1 (36:18):
Yeah, did you have a sense too over the course
of the series, as different writers and different show runners
came in, was there a change to your mind in
terms of the tone of the show? Be it now
we're more comedic, Oh, now we're less comedic, and okay,
now we're going I mean, I know, you know, from
episode to episode, maybe, but I just I kind of
mean more in general in terms of what their approaches

(36:39):
might have been.

Speaker 4 (36:40):
Yeah, we had a lot of comings and goings of
production and writing staff. So it's hard. These people sometimes
came on and from the ground running. They had to
familiarize themselves with the show like they might have done
before this podcast, you know, with the episodes with the characters,
and so obviously the focus is going to be on
Kate and Bruce, the meat and potatoes. The show, you know,
we're just a little bluff on the side dishes. So

(37:03):
I think a lot of times spends seeing would get
lost in the shuffle, and they didn't quite know what
is this. She's like kind of a kind of a
I don't know, she's talk backing kind of secretary or something.
They didn't know what to do with her, and so
Hans not a lot was done with her for quite
a long time. But yeah, there were changes, and so
we would just take meetings and try to talk and

(37:24):
communicate that. And it wasn't until I think year three
that I did have to go to Alan Shane, who
was again the president Warner Brothers the time, and I
had to go to him for a couple of reasons.
I had to say, it was getting really hard here.
I'm not being allowed every contract every year. I was
allowed to do three guest stars on other shows my
day's off. Nobody was letting me do those guest stars.

(37:46):
And I kept getting offers and having to turn them down.
And at the time I was saying, again, you know, Billy, hurry,
the truck's coming. I was not doing much. I was
sitting in my trailer, and so I had to go
to him to ask a contract would be honored and
if I could maybe get my character thoser to some
semblance of what it originally was created just those kind
of things, a little discussion. He was so nice and

(38:06):
he's that's when he told me about the Love Sydney
and all of that. So I didn't know that for years. He,
by the way, is ninety.

Speaker 2 (38:13):
Six now, oh wow, and still active.

Speaker 4 (38:16):
And he wrote a book called Double Life that he
was the closeted gay himself in early Hollywood. And he's
had the same husband now for over fifty years. Oh.

Speaker 2 (38:27):
That's amazing. That's very beautiful.

Speaker 4 (38:29):
And I think his special interest in Love Sydney comes
from his life was sort of reflected in that show
in some ways, you know, and so maybe that's why
he came that to that. You know, it all just
felt together that way. I really liked him.

Speaker 1 (38:41):
What you mentioned about your contract allowing you to do
guest appearances on other shows, was that fairly common at
the time for that.

Speaker 4 (38:49):
To be everybody. I think the standard contract when you
get like when you do the pilot, they lock you
in for a seven year contract just in case the
show gets point big and you're still stuck with You're
got a ten dollars increase next year. Yeah, you know,
so in that contract you have these I think it
was three outs per year to do other and I've
been even asked by the network to do uh. I

(39:11):
used to do a lot of the on camera reality stuff,
so they wanted me to host parades like the Christmas
Bread the Masons, that kind of stuff. I had to
turn those down. It wasn't like I was carrying a
big storyline. I just wasn't being allowed out. I'm not
even sure why. Aren't who a little about it? But
it was difficult, and I'm because I wasn't being creative
on the show so much. Then I wanted to do
something where I could play another character or play a character.

Speaker 2 (39:34):
You know, I'm fascinated by when women get to be
in scenes together that aren't you know about men. So
there were a couple episodes where friend Scene and Amanda
get to work together and did the mad one.

Speaker 4 (39:49):
I love, that's my favorite.

Speaker 2 (39:51):
It's adorable. You guys are fantastic together. You're really funny together.
It's it's wonderful. I think friend scene gets to be
very friend Scene and Amanda gets to be very Amanda
and then and yet you sort of both kind of win, right,
So it's to me it was one of the you know,
the stronger episodes of that scene.

Speaker 4 (40:12):
Do you know what season that was? Was that two?
I'm curious because that was a really nice kind of
forming a relationship with Amanda and Francine there, and that
was so fun to shoot. She was great, She really
was wonderful.

Speaker 2 (40:25):
You tell her she did a great job. Oh my goodness,
it's so startling and she's so startling. You're like, that
was great marriage where she pushes the meat over or
somebody and like at the end, yeah.

Speaker 4 (40:37):
At the end and we shake hands or something. And
that was that actual meat packing plant in Vernon. Oh
my goodness.

Speaker 2 (40:43):
Now, yeah, I want to talk about the fans. It's
a really core fan base for Scarecrow, Missus King.

Speaker 4 (40:50):
It's amazing.

Speaker 2 (40:51):
And yet what's funny is it seems to be multi generational.
Seems to be people that originally found the show, and
then people that found the show later and that weren't
and watch.

Speaker 4 (41:00):
With their parents. I get a lot of that in
my mom, and I watched it when I was little
with my mom, you know.

Speaker 2 (41:05):
And do you see a difference in those fans and
what they love about the show.

Speaker 4 (41:10):
It always kind of confused about No, honestly, I mean
I think it's a great show and all, but they're
so happened, and they're so they're very smart in our fans,
and they know, like I say, they kind of memorize everything.
So I asked, actually, David, who I think you might
be talking with. David Johnson's working on the book with Taya.

(41:30):
I talked to him recently when he was in town
about what is it? And he gave me, you know,
that it was the characters and how real they were
and the storyline and all of that stuff. And I
see it. But it's just that it's lasted so long.
I mean, there's still we have Jeanette Throws these events
that are in these reunions along with David and other people,
and these people come from all over the world, from

(41:52):
other countries. They fly in just to talk about this show.
How many years later.

Speaker 1 (41:58):
Well, I think that's something sort of unique to television
because you know, it comes into your house every week
and you watch it and you, as you said, fall
in love with the characters, and then their reruns and
you can watch them over again, and there's so much content.
And it's also something that everybody else can watch everybody else,
you know, and you can and when the Internet allows
you to make it easy to find other people who

(42:19):
share your love of something, I think it's you know,
I know that all sorts of content has all sorts
of fan bases, but I think the television fan bases
are very unique in that way.

Speaker 4 (42:31):
Yeah, and I think there was a warm a warmth
in the relationship, certainly with Kate and Bruce that kept
them coming back for more as they kind of teased
that relationship along slowly ininted and you know, played with
the audience a little bit with that. I think that
kept them coming.

Speaker 1 (42:48):
But I think it's also the relationships that that Amanda had,
that everybody had between them. They it really was a
good team for all of the ups and downs and
back and forth. It's it's a it's a good team
that ultimately does work really well together.

Speaker 2 (43:03):
Yeah, and it definitely the first season felt more like
a little bit more like an ensemble show, and then
it does sort of become, you know, not that it's
not about Bruce and Kate, because it is, it's Scarecrow
Missus King, but it felt more ensemble. In the first season.
It felt like there was more time spent in the
spy world of spies, Yeah, trying to figure it out.

(43:27):
And yet and yet the later seasons feel very casey, right,
They feel very case of the Week, right, and more
concentrated on that and more serious. So I'm curious about
because there was a big upheaval in the middle of
the season one where Eugenie wrestling ming and Brad Buckner
left the show and Jannita Bartlett came on. Can you

(43:50):
talk about that at all? Do you have memories of
that time? What it felt like.

Speaker 4 (43:54):
I am usually the last person on a set or
on a job or anywhere to hear like the scoop,
you know, I'm always the one. I don't know what
it is about me, but I am literally always the
last person. Really, that's what happened, So I just knew that,
you know, they had gone rather quickly, and Juanita had
a real different flavor, but she had a really literary background,

(44:15):
quite different in terms of tone, but I liked that
she was strongly based from publishing background and whatnot, and
I enjoyed her work, her scripts and still friends. Sine
was different but interesting. You know. I didn't feel deluded
or anything, just a little different shade from my point

(44:37):
of view. There was. Every set is difficult, and ours
had its difficulties. So I don't really want to go
into it, but I'm telling it. I was always happy. Yeah,
I was. Every time I drive onto that lot and
say hi to that dark page and see my name
on that parking spot stage twenty four, I was a

(44:58):
happy camper. You know. I had no problems on set
or anything. I found it all just a great experience. Really.

Speaker 2 (45:09):
And so and so uh brus a box lightner. And
you guys, you guys are still in touch. You still
show up at the reunions.

Speaker 4 (45:16):
Yeah, those reunions every now and then, we'll see you.
And and uh. Bruce and I have maintained the same
sort of antagonistic relationship with each other, but it's just
kind of a faux antagonism. It's really sort of like
brother and sister bickering at each other. You know, you
I seize me for some reason. It's this like wild
liberal and so he says, I don't want to talk
about any politics neither do I really, now, Bruce, I

(45:39):
don't want to talk about any horses. Okay, let's let's
get this straight.

Speaker 2 (45:43):
It was that broken leg, It was that motorcycle accident.
That he's like, she's always with the rock stars.

Speaker 4 (45:49):
Yes, yes, Bruce always made fun of the the Matt
and I was dating, And now that I look back,
he was probably right, but he was always had something to.

Speaker 2 (45:58):
Say, and he calls you chatty Kathy.

Speaker 4 (46:02):
He does. Isn't that endearing?

Speaker 2 (46:07):
I heard a little friend scene in that come back.
Oh and so you got to work a little bit
with Beverly Garland more in the early seasons. How was that?
How was she?

Speaker 4 (46:20):
I almost never got to work with her, actually a
little bit here and there, Yeah, like the Pilot and
then of course it's Magda. But Beverly I adored. I
just loved her. Her birthday was one day off for mine,
so we always had neutral birthday cake celebration and stuff.
And she was she was a real hero to me.
I just loved her everything about her as a woman,
as a person, as an address. And it was always

(46:43):
But I didn't get to work with her very much
at all, and her scenes were often another day, another location,
another set, so I didn't get to see her. But
we saw each other socially, and she would always invite
me into her big boxing day parties and stuff like that,
and we go lunch and I.

Speaker 2 (46:58):
Love Beverly, and solet's talk about season two. So the
beginning of season two is a lot of Europe shows.
Did you get to go to Europe? I think you
were in Yes, I went to Europe. Yes. Okay, please
don't ask.

Speaker 4 (47:09):
Bruce about are you interviewing Bruce? Did you do it?

Speaker 2 (47:11):
We haven't done it already. Okay, we don't try and
get him, but I don't know when you.

Speaker 4 (47:14):
Asked him about Europe, You're going to get all these
terrible stories about me and german Men and get all
these people and the guynecologist story isn't true. The you
got to hear stories, you just tell them. You'd rather
not discuss those things very private?

Speaker 2 (47:36):
You cant very private. I only want to hear about
Rod Stewart. Yeah. And so I think it's interesting when
you know, you look at Remington and you look at
Scarecrow in particular, because there's sort of two sides of
a coin and Moonlighting being sort of the third of
the third side of that coin because coins have three sides.

(47:57):
But it was the beginning of and Cheers being part
of that. It was a real exploration of power in relationships,
and like I'm attracted to you, but I also need
to be my own person.

Speaker 4 (48:11):
You noticed Frenccene never had a boyfriend until like the last.

Speaker 2 (48:14):
Season, I know, and so you know and again. But
but Francine was having a life, right she was. She
was like, I'm going embassy parties. I need to meet
the prince of you know whomever. I did like that
about Francine. Francis was very clear about what she wanted
that became. That was very clear, clear and unapologetic. She

(48:35):
was not apologetic about what she wanted and what she
was doing and how she was doing it. And I
like that a lot about her too.

Speaker 4 (48:41):
Oh thank you, thank you. Francine appreciates that. I had
decided that Franccene was a daddy's girl, and daddy was
extremely ambitious and wanted her to strive to obtain the
same sorts of standards, and so their competitiveness came out
of just her hardwiring. She couldn't really do to think
about it, and so she just accepted it and that

(49:02):
was her life. She just needed to always further succeed,
climb that ladder and get, you know, get to the
top of everything, and nothing was going to get in
her way.

Speaker 2 (49:11):
And so what were some of your favorite most memorable
episodes for Francine.

Speaker 4 (49:16):
Oh, definitely life at the Party, which is what I
call means. But anytime I could go undercover and loved.
I loved anytime I could speak different languages, and like
we had the Afghanistan kidnapping episode. Yeah, I got to
wear no makeup and my natural hair in that one
when I got kidnapped, you know, because I was supposed
to be all I'm so happy that that was what

(49:36):
it looked like. In those days, nobody knew what I
looked like. People would come to interview on my home
and they'd go Francy. Yeah, and Magda was fun, Magda
Petac from the hung And of course I got to
do that twice. I got to do that, So that
was fun because nice don't get the Jackie.

Speaker 1 (49:52):
Oh look, I think they're one of my favorite Franccene
and Amanda scenes. Was I think early in season four
when it really became apparent everybody else that Amanda and
Lee were seeing each other outside the office, if you will,
And Francine said to her, are you sure? Because of
the way that this could complicate things, complicate.

Speaker 2 (50:13):
Your life, and it wasn't.

Speaker 1 (50:15):
It didn't come across as anything other than concern for
Amanda as far as I was concerned. Oh, it wasn't Caddie.
It wasn't jealousy. It was just have you thought about
all the ramifications of this, and are you sure you
really want to do this? And I really appreciated that.

Speaker 4 (50:32):
And I don't remember that you must have cut out
the tag part always on the editing room.

Speaker 1 (50:42):
But see, I never really saw Francine as she may
have been snarky, but she wasn't Caddy.

Speaker 2 (50:46):
She you know.

Speaker 1 (50:48):
It was more that she just had a hard time
understanding how and why this person who wasn't trained and
hadn't gone through the things that Francine had gone through
was getting the opportunities that she was getting. But it
was never it never came across as as anything other
than that. It wasn't personal, It wasn't jealousy.

Speaker 2 (51:07):
It wasn't you know.

Speaker 1 (51:08):
She wasn't trying to undermine her in any way, you know,
which I thought was great.

Speaker 4 (51:11):
Do you remember the scene that we had Kate and
I in the freezer?

Speaker 2 (51:15):
Yes, I love it.

Speaker 4 (51:17):
Where we could establish relationship. We didn't get a lot
of opportunities in the script to do that, but there's
such action to going on. But that one was you know,
really you got to see into where they were coming
from and intertwined their own needs, you know kind of
that was that was interesting in Thundered, And that was
another one of those that was actually written as you're walking.

Speaker 2 (51:35):
On okay, and so what what was happening that was
creating that? Was that just the writers were doing that
or was networking do you know why you were.

Speaker 4 (51:47):
Network was really around to make those kind of notes.
That was just a you know, Kate was very specific
about what she wanted. It was partially her show, you know,
her production company owned part of that show, a good
part of it, and she really knew what she wanted
and if it wasn't what she wanted, she would make
those adjustments, you know. So like I said, we all

(52:08):
kept on our clothes and it was for the better,
you know, she would make the scene better.

Speaker 2 (52:12):
And I love again that is the charm of the show.
The show survives, I think and maintains its charm because
of the relationships in the show, those little moments, the
moments between Francine and Amanda, the moments obviously between Amanda
and Scarecrow and Listetson and even the mouse do it like.
It's just a very charming show.

Speaker 4 (52:34):
That's a good word for it.

Speaker 2 (52:36):
Yeah, it has a lot of charm, and it's the
kind of show that doesn't really get made as much anymore,
which is sort of an action comedy show. We can
see that in movies, but we take our spying really seriously. Now.

Speaker 4 (52:47):
Yeah, no, I think it's too innocent. Also, yes, to
be made today, it's not. It doesn't have the edges,
even with friends in it. Without it doesn't have today's
I don't think. But yet people you know, like I say,
these fans are still watching it, like on their own

(53:07):
tv ds and things.

Speaker 2 (53:09):
So I do want to ask you about season three.
Kate Jackson directed a couple of episodes, the only female
director on the season. I mean, on the show. How
was that? How are those shows? And did that change
anything for Francine and for you as an actress.

Speaker 4 (53:23):
I don't think it did no. I mean, she obviously
knew the show better than anybody in the back of
her hands, so it went went well. And then of
course the episode titles, I never remember that. I have
my own names for all of them. You know.

Speaker 2 (53:36):
The other thing is is that I think there was
a couple episodes where Kate Jackson had to leave. So
there's a tennis episode that I think seems to have
been written for you know, yeah.

Speaker 4 (53:49):
Good, you're not supposed to see that.

Speaker 2 (53:51):
Well, you know, Playing for Keeps is the tennis episode? Yeah,
was that the last minute? Did you remember that episode?
And do you remember being like, okay, Francine's being called
up to the show.

Speaker 4 (54:01):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yes, I do remember. I remember actually
on the set being handed the script and that all
they kind of did was cross out, you know, Amanda
and put Francine. I remember talking I think it was
to the ad who had his walkie talking on at
the time with production office, and I remember saying, you know,
Amanda and Francine are like, give me different kinds of characters,

(54:23):
and you can't just really give me this dialogue. It's
the producer didn't know that I was listening on the
other end. She got a problem with that. I'm always like, really,
you know, diplomatic about things, and I'm just saying, it's
not going have a problem. It's just that they're really
different characters and it's a little sticky. But you know, yeah,

(54:45):
we did what we could.

Speaker 2 (54:46):
But when you go into season three and season four
of a of a show and you're not being used
as much as you would hope as an actress or
you would hope for your character, like, what do you do?
How do you make that work for you?

Speaker 4 (54:58):
Well, that's why I was at I was begging literally
to do other shows because I was being offered roles,
and begging is what I was doing. So that's what
you do. I try. Also, I went to production office.
I had one very teary eyed meeting with our producers
at the time. You know, that's when I had my
little notebook full of this is what Francie means. Can
we kind of try to like save the whales? I

(55:20):
was trying to save franc scene, you know, I wanted
to bring her back a little bit, and it didn't.
They seemed to be understanding that things proceeded as they
were more status quo, and I was getting the feeling
also that I don't know, I never took it for granted.
You know, I was always extremely grateful. I'm telling you, literally,
every time I drove onto the plot, it's just like

(55:40):
this is a wonderful, wonderful gift, but I was starting
to feel like, you know, don't say anything, don't make
any ways, You're lucky to have a job at all.

Speaker 2 (55:49):
And then in season four, you know, Kate Jackson gets
diagnosed with breast cancer and we know that.

Speaker 4 (55:55):
Now, and I didn't know that for the longest time.
I didn't know that groused it. And I think it
was Bruce that told me. But it was quite late,
so I really didn't know what was going on. I
just kept hearing she wasn't well it's kind of generic,
you know, couldn't come in. But I didn't know until
really really late. Again, I'm always the last one to
know anything. I don't know what it is.

Speaker 2 (56:15):
I mean, and it see and and so it does
seem like there were a couple episodes again where Francene
sort of gets kind of shoved in.

Speaker 4 (56:21):
Yeah. Well the script the last where I had to
finally had a boyfriend and I had an apartment and
all that stuff that was written by one need back
back in early season was when did wanted.

Speaker 2 (56:33):
To do she was she was. She came on the
second half of season one and all of season two,
and she.

Speaker 4 (56:37):
Wrote that script and it, for whatever reason, didn't get made,
but it was on the shelf for the longest time.
So years later when we needed material and we needed
material with Franccene, there was that script. It was already written.
So I had They had to build my set for
my apartment. They had to bring on the boyfriend that
you know, I didn't know I had. I was rather
excited because I went along time to have a boyfriend.

(57:01):
Beaman was as close as I got, and I just
wasn't interested.

Speaker 2 (57:05):
Oh my god, there's a lot of fan love about
Francine and Beaman. I got to you as a person.

Speaker 4 (57:11):
He's a great guy, but uh, Frantine wasn't into it.

Speaker 2 (57:15):
It is surprising there's a script written in season one
or two that basically would have established a whole other
life for Francie.

Speaker 4 (57:23):
Oh yeah, I just know it's there.

Speaker 2 (57:25):
That's that's and it gets done in season four.

Speaker 4 (57:28):
Yeah. Wow, it gets pulled out, dusted off and bound.
There we go.

Speaker 1 (57:32):
And you weren't aware that the script even existed until
they dusted it off. Oh my goodness, you have.

Speaker 2 (57:38):
And there was one line that I believe is in
late season three or early season four episode. I couldn't
find it. I went looking for it again, but I couldn't.
I didn't have time to watch all the shows again
to find this one line that's kind of a throwaway line.
Lee Stetson is on the phone with Billy and and they're,
you know, like, you know, do this and do that
and whatever. Have Franccene do her hooker routine?

Speaker 4 (57:58):
Oh, I remember the hook is Literally the line has
a lot of routines.

Speaker 2 (58:05):
I gotta tell you, I kind of almost fell out
of my chair at the dounk this or the couch
because I was like, that would never have been a
line in episode one. I mean in season one.

Speaker 4 (58:14):
Well, what it would have actually been would have been
doing her honeypot and that is intel talk or the
same thing that you know. So whoever wrote that, I
don't know, but that was what seen you said.

Speaker 2 (58:24):
Three it's late three year. I thought it was in
three years.

Speaker 4 (58:28):
We've already lost one by then. Probably.

Speaker 2 (58:30):
Yeah. It was just sort of startling. And now my
husband and I say it a lot. Oh, just have
Friency do her hook a routine.

Speaker 4 (58:38):
You know, my husband says that too. That's fun.

Speaker 2 (58:43):
And so here's my question. When you were on the show,
did you feel like, oh, this is this is a
show that puts women up front. Did you feel like
it was a what we would call a feminine show now,
or at least a female driven show.

Speaker 6 (58:58):
I think it was.

Speaker 4 (58:59):
Right in the target of the time in terms of that,
because I was that age where when I grew up
in this very traditional family with a mother who stayed
home and the father who worked, all I wanted was
to be a professional because I was in that era
right where that was sort of being first introduced, and

(59:22):
it sounded very exciting to me. So all I wanted
to do was and so fran Seeing also, and then
Amanda even also maybe later and maybe in a different
in her own way. But I think that now this is,
you know, eighties, and I was growing up more or
the born in the fifties, so you know, see that
difference in time. But I didn't start thinking about those
things until being of age to work, so I don't

(59:46):
know about I don't think it was ahead of the
game or behind the game. Actually, I think it was
kind of right there where it should be at that time.
And I fran see, like I said, Francine could have
easily been a male character, and she wasn't. She was
that combination of that for Yang, you know, here's that
combination of energies that was definitely it was career, it

(01:00:07):
was power, it was the whole nine yards.

Speaker 2 (01:00:11):
And again as a counterpoint, uh, you know, Remington Steele
lower Holt is way more francine than she is Amanda King. Right,
we're about to look We're gonna look at Remington Steel next,
and lore Holt is all about business and all about this.
And then you know, a man walks in, so you know,
it gets a little a little more complicated. We have

(01:00:32):
a little segment, a special segment on our show called
nineties TV Babies, and it's a younger generation that looks
at these shows from a different perspective and talks about them.
And I have to say, you're a favorite of theirs
in the episodes of Scarecrims King because they're like the outfits,
the hair, the attitude, and they really like it does

(01:00:54):
really sort of pop for them.

Speaker 4 (01:00:55):
That's good to know, good to know. I know I
did a lot of also in the eighties, I did
of Dick Clark's Up Pyramid. It's a game show, right,
and they have celebrity contestants. Well, Dick Clark and I
really got along well. So people have me on all
the time, and on that show, I could dress as myself,
so I wore all the I mean, I was Cyndi
Lauper Madonna. I had the lace gloves, the ribbon, and
the hair, the big shoulder's, the big hair, the spiky

(01:01:17):
rod Stewart here there's back the rest do it. And
the people that go back and watch us now like
a YouTube and whatnot. And you're right, it's all the
younger people that say, oh, she was classic Evings. I
love it. You know, it's so fun to be historically admired.
I just really keep going back to the life at
the party of the Maids with Kate. That that was

(01:01:40):
just when you when Kate's sounded roll and you get
to work with her like that with a good script
and everything's working right, it's just magic. You know. It's
like a band when all the instruments are just kind
of entyanc with each other. And and that really stands
out for me a lot. It's my favorite, my favorite
episode in every way, I mean, just as a viewer
and a participant.

Speaker 2 (01:02:01):
And and then you know, so season four comes and
and uh and you don't get picked up don't get renewed.

Speaker 4 (01:02:08):
Oh do tell no, come on, we're some say some
say that we did, and but it wasn't to be.
It wasn't to be.

Speaker 2 (01:02:24):
Is that in the book? Is that we're saving it
for the mid I don't think. I'm not sure.

Speaker 4 (01:02:28):
I haven't gotten that part yet.

Speaker 1 (01:02:30):
So when you when you when you ended season, when
you stopped shooting season four, was there had it not?
Had it been determined at that point whether or not
the show?

Speaker 4 (01:02:38):
We were told that was. That was pretty that we
were told that was it because I remember the last
day of shooting and I was shooting that episode, by
the way, that frenzy episode of her apartment and her uh,
that was I think the last way we shot, and
I could not say goodbye to everybody. It was too difficult,
it was too emotional. I was crying great thinking about it.

(01:02:59):
I drove off, you know, and had my farewells afterwards.
But yeah, it was really really sad because that's forty
years of really intense being with people that many hours
a day. When they say it's like a family, and
it's like Kate had helt issue that we're priority and
I don't want to say anything that's not. You know,

(01:03:22):
I don't know what's public and what's so I'm just
saying that that was the most important thing. She had
to take care of that, and so there was not
to be anymore. And she knows she had to have
surgeries and all sorts of things. It was not easy,
and that wasn't was scared one as king that was
the show.

Speaker 2 (01:03:36):
So there was there was no show with that k
texting and and and such a scary time. Like it's
scary all the time. But I think, you know, thirty
forty years ago, yeah, getting a diagnosis of breast cancer
was terrifying.

Speaker 4 (01:03:51):
Yeah, and if everything had been in order, and if
Kate had been healthy in all life perspect we would
have gone for another sin cure.

Speaker 2 (01:03:58):
Yeah, I mean that. And and it's also sort of
seems like scary to even announce that. In the eighties,
I think women were not comfortable saying, hey, I need
this time.

Speaker 4 (01:04:11):
Well, it's always very personal health matters, you know, you
don't want to have everybody in your face. And when
she's a huge star she was at the time, her
TVQ you know, which is rating on the scale, was
way way up there. She was one of the few
women at the top of TVQ if you combined both genders.
You know, she was like right up there on the topic.
It's Charlie's Angels and everything else.

Speaker 2 (01:04:32):
And so you're still in touch with Kate Jackson.

Speaker 4 (01:04:36):
I am. We had a lot of years when we
didn't see each other. We just, you know, like happens
on shows, you lose touch with people. And then we
reconnected a few years ago and we went out to
the movies together and had a lot of fun, and
then lost touch again, and so I'm trying to reconnect again.
She actually wanted to do a podcast about our show

(01:04:59):
with kind of fast forward going where our characters would
be today, that kind of thing. You know, she was
talking to me about that, and she has some.

Speaker 2 (01:05:06):
Really good ideas that could be fun. Yeah, I think
people would be ready for that, So you should tell her, well, yeah,
you know, we'll promote it. We'll have her on God.
But also I think it was just a kind of
a perfect blend of Kate Jackson and a character that
was gonna see goodness in people, like there's a really again.

(01:05:28):
That's where I think the charm and the and the
stuff that that sort of holds up.

Speaker 4 (01:05:31):
It's a good point. Yeah, yeah, I think you're right.

Speaker 2 (01:05:34):
It's one of the things when I'm looking back at
shows and and and again, it felt like, in some
ways a more innocent time or I was just you know,
it was a young baby person. But it also felt
like there was a lot of possibility in those characters.
And so I'm glad that Francine and Amanda are friends.

(01:05:55):
I'm glad to hear that, yes, and.

Speaker 4 (01:05:56):
I see Bruce Evan Allan. Then also at the there's
these share charity events the Hollywood throws that Bruce goes
to him because every every year when they have this
event in pastor wear, it's always western were and I like,
Francine and me have zero western were I have lit
one cowboy hat that just for these events. And then
I throw on some like, you know, high heeled boots

(01:06:17):
or something. I think it's kind of western, right, And
then Bruce shows up in his full garb, you know
John Wayne look.

Speaker 2 (01:06:23):
With saddle over his shoulder.

Speaker 4 (01:06:26):
And brings the horse to the parking lot.

Speaker 2 (01:06:30):
Oh my gosh. All right, and so we're going to
get to three questions, which is our sort of last
wrap up. But what what's happening?

Speaker 3 (01:06:38):
No?

Speaker 2 (01:06:38):
Don't worry. They're easy, They're super easy. You're chatty, You're
You're fine. No, we love chatty. It's a podcast about chatty.
Chatty is great and wonderful. It's a compliment.

Speaker 4 (01:06:50):
Okay, I'll take it.

Speaker 2 (01:06:52):
Oh sure, when Bruce Boxinger says it, he's on you.

Speaker 4 (01:06:56):
Blaffy Bruce. We call him blaby Bruce.

Speaker 2 (01:06:58):
Blaby Bruce. We be for chatting. Good podcasts. Love chatty,
and you know, I love women who have something to say.
But I did want to say, what's happening? Stuff happening.

Speaker 4 (01:07:10):
I am doing real estate, and I'm kind of doing
the friends version of it. I mean, I've got a
small high end clientele, but I sold homes to princes
and rock stars and celebrities of all types. So you know,
it's that certain I have. Right now, I'm listing for
fourteen million dollars that's really really beautiful, and hoping to

(01:07:33):
sell soon. I dream of retiring, honestly, I'm kind of
There's a lot of nonprofit work I'm interested in, and
I would really like to branch out and do things
a little bit more in a meaningful sector. You know,
at that point in my life where I want to
make my big footprint of meaning on the world.

Speaker 2 (01:07:50):
So all right, well, keep us posted, let us know
when you're doing your next creative project, because we want
to hear that. And when you're selling something like a
like a four hundred that.

Speaker 4 (01:08:02):
I think that's a garage here.

Speaker 1 (01:08:03):
I was going to say, is there such a thing
in this area in Los Angeles anywhere?

Speaker 2 (01:08:08):
A nice try, nice try? I just you know, but
fourteen million dollars, I think that's going to sell.

Speaker 4 (01:08:14):
Really well, that's for a young professional. That's not what
that's not the high end yet, that's not the twenty
million enough. They just sold one for like one eighty
five million, you know in Bellham. Wow, ridiculous house.

Speaker 2 (01:08:26):
Ridiculous one hundred and eighty five million.

Speaker 4 (01:08:28):
Yeah, it was. They kind of shaved a mountaintop and
built this house that goes on forever with you know,
like theaters and bowling alleys and all this in our
whole thirty two bathrooms. It was more of like a city,
more like a real estate porn is what it is.

Speaker 1 (01:08:44):
Isn't that the house that the guy built think you know,
and and it had to go to auction or something.

Speaker 4 (01:08:50):
Yes, that's the one. It's called the one.

Speaker 2 (01:08:52):
Yes, Oh my god, I's called the.

Speaker 4 (01:08:54):
Half because it sold for half. Its just I do.

Speaker 2 (01:09:03):
Okay, all right, so here we are three questions. What's
the eighties ladies driven TV show that resonated with you
and you can't say scarecro Missus King because you were
on it.

Speaker 4 (01:09:11):
But I didn't watch eighties ladies. I like Kney and Lazy.
Does that count?

Speaker 2 (01:09:17):
Totally count? Totally counts? Okay, yeah, all right, okay, one
now check what are your favorite ladies of TV shows
that you're watching or just TV shows you know, but
you don't watch TV.

Speaker 4 (01:09:34):
I know this. Well, let's see. Now I'm going to
come up with something because I do occasionally watch things
like on Netflix or you know, like and I just
had to watch all that stuff for the wards, which
I love to dope sick. But that wasn't so much.

Speaker 2 (01:09:48):
It doesn't have to be network. Oh yeah, no, it
doesn't have to be network, right, they can be streaming again.

Speaker 5 (01:09:52):
What's the one on the Netflix of that at the
making of Anna inventing.

Speaker 4 (01:09:58):
Ann Oh Annadel. I just watched that. Yeah, she was great,
and I was so curious about her accent, but that,
in fact was a correct accent.

Speaker 1 (01:10:06):
Found later, Oh really, because there has been a lot
written about what the heck was that accent?

Speaker 4 (01:10:10):
And was a German tesla answer name? She's a German.
I think she's a microbiologist, and she had the exact
same accident. It was almost like she borrowed her from her,
and so I thought, well, this must be a certain
part of Germany. Maybe she researched it because it's a
rare accent I hadn't heard before. And then I got
a year for accents.

Speaker 7 (01:10:31):
Oh that's fascinating. Yeah, that's fascinating. Yeah, all right, final question. No, listen,
you've already told us like three of these. What's the
most like television moment or action hero moment or sort
of just like one of those moments You're like, this
must have been scripted that you've experienced in real life.
But it sounds you told us like five of them,

(01:10:52):
so you could revisit one of them.

Speaker 4 (01:10:54):
Oh wow, yeah, my whole life has been that way. Honestly,
I would say maybe Humes, you know the way that
all came down, probably going for that other role, asking
to do Babs, getting Babs, and then all of a
sudden the movie blowing up like huge all of that
kind of put together was really sort of like a

(01:11:16):
Hollywood movie, you know, kind of happening that you don't
see in life that much.

Speaker 2 (01:11:20):
Yeah, fantastic. Yeah, And I'm super impressed about your ability
to advocate at a young age for yourself and for
what you wanted. It's pretty amazing when I think about
you like that, you you know, or it's like, hey,
here take this role, and you're like, what could I
have the other one?

Speaker 4 (01:11:43):
And it was interesting because in those days when you
did Playboy, you had to hide it in Hollywood you're
going to be an actress. And I became an accidental
actress because of that thing that told you about that.
That's another one of those moments, right. But so when
I was offered roles like that, I couldn't Nobody knew
I was Playmate when I'm filling on auditions, Nobody in Hollywood.

(01:12:03):
My agent was probably the only one who knew. And
I didn't talk about it, and I didn't want anything
to kind of reminisce back and show Up and Playboy,
although they did always say our Martha on happy Days,
you know, and I always put the magazine when I
when I would do something, But yeah, I had to
be really, really careful. And then flash forward many years later,

(01:12:23):
I'm still not talking about it, and I going on
audition for I don't remember what. It was a movie
and the character was supposed to have been a playmate
and I didn't get the role, and the feedback was,
we don't buy that, she couldn't be a planemate. That
was the best feedback I ever got an audition. Audience
isn't gonna buy it.

Speaker 2 (01:12:44):
No, that's so like and so such an interesting thing.
So you feel like, do you feel differently about having
been a playmate now than you did then? Or whenever
I feel much of anything?

Speaker 4 (01:12:56):
Then? To be honestly, I had been a muddel and
to me it was another model and job with a
lot more money and no clothes. It just really didn't
seem you know, I was a hippie and being without
your clothes wasn't a big deal. It wasn't sort of
like and I wasn't, you know, doing anything pornographic. I
was lying with, you know, a little piece of sheer
fabric between my legs and flowers behind me, and everything

(01:13:19):
was soft focused and it was all that girl next
door kind of looking the day very fuzzy, soft and pretty.
And I've always been a fan of artwork, and to me,
it was like beautifulwork. Had some of the best photographers
of the world shoot me. I really loved the images
they came up with. There was nothing I felt compromised about.
I was paying really well. But it was during Women's liberation,
so I was going on the road and I was

(01:13:39):
meeting and greeting and people were coming up with throwing
brass at me and I it was kind of weird,
a juxtaposition of themes. Every audition I went to, I
went business first. That's why. That's why they said that
nobody believed she could be a playmate.

Speaker 2 (01:13:56):
You know, this went a different way. But no, no,
that's fine. I know what that we're looking at, you know,
TV ladies from the eighties, and and this was a
big part of it, and and how women had to
navigate a world that was not always welcoming to them,
was not always you know, easy to navigate. Thank you

(01:14:17):
so much for being on the show, and for talking
about Scarecrow is King and your amazing career and and
and just your experience. And I'm super excited about just
how like enthusiastic you are about life like that, That's
what I'm getting from this. It's like, Oh, I'm going

(01:14:38):
to go on the road with Rob Stewart. I'm going
to go create a show over here. I need to
do a cabaret show and uh and sing with a guy.
I need to find a guy who's going to sing
with me. Oh, okay, I'm going to marry him. I
think that's great.

Speaker 1 (01:14:50):
And how all along through your career you were you
were looking for different creative outlets. If it wasn't happening here,
you said, fine, I'll just go make one over here
and I'll go try this. And that's really amazing. That's
really amazing.

Speaker 4 (01:15:02):
Well, thank you, guys. But we did have a lot
of writers' strikes and actress strikes to fill the gaps
and during note so, but thank you. I appreciate that.

Speaker 2 (01:15:13):
Yeah, anyway, it's it's been great. I'm a big fan
of the show and a big fan of yours, and
I'm really glad that you were able to come on
and talk with you.

Speaker 1 (01:15:23):
It's been a real treat. Thank you for sharing. We
really appreciate you sharing.

Speaker 4 (01:15:31):
Mine.

Speaker 2 (01:15:34):
Okay, we're gonna go out with the song thank you MS.
It's been wonderful. I really appreciate it. Be well, take
care hi.

Speaker 8 (01:15:44):
Our audioography for today is the Martha Smith official Facebook
page at Yes Facebook and the Scarecrow and Missus King
Anniversary website also on Facebook, Facebook dot com Slashcarecrow and
Missus King Anniversary. That's a page devoted to the reunions
featuring Martha Smith, Bruce Black, Sleeitner, and other people involved

(01:16:06):
in Scarecrow Missus King. I want to thank Fiona W
for enjoying our Scarecrow episodes and recommending a very cool
book for our audioography, which I'm just going to add
here today. She recommended When Women Invented Television by Jennifer
keishin Armstrong.

Speaker 1 (01:16:24):
Tamera m was inspired by our Scarecrow discussion about female
characters not needing a romantic relationship with male counterparts to
recommend that we discuss Hunter with Stephanie Kramer and Fred Dreyer.

Speaker 2 (01:16:39):
Hunter has come up before. It's not a show I
know very well, Sharon, but I think we definitely will
have to cover it at some point. It sounds like
a plant. Okay, so we haven't actually completed exploring season
four of Scarecrow, Mimis is King, and a lot happens
in that season. No spoilers for now.

Speaker 8 (01:16:53):
But we're going to pause for a minute or several
episodes on Scarecrowmas's King. We reserve the right to return,
recall witnesses, and bring new interviewers on at any time.

Speaker 2 (01:17:05):
Who knows. We know we'll be talking to some wonderful
SMK fans that we're going to bring on the show,
and we are still reaching out to Bruce and Kate.
Keep your fingers crossed.

Speaker 8 (01:17:14):
You never know what can happen anything at all at
eighties TV Ladies, that's the fun part.

Speaker 1 (01:17:19):
When we started this podcast, we never intended to do
episode by episode walkthroughs of Scarecrow and This is King,
even though we love those kinds of podcasts. West Wing, Weekly,
Office Ladies, Parks and Recollection love them all, just to
name a few, but that's not what we're doing because
we want to cover more shows and we would be

(01:17:39):
able to by going episode to episode.

Speaker 2 (01:17:42):
So we're curious what you think. This is season one
and we are enjoying ourselves immensely, But do you love
going season by season? Do you love the interviews? Do
you like a combination. Continue to reach out.

Speaker 8 (01:17:54):
We want to know your suggestions. Tell us an eighties
TV Lady show that resonated with you, and tell us
what you'd like to see us cover on this show.

Speaker 1 (01:18:03):
So on our next episode, we will be talking about
another romantic comedy action show, Remington Steel, starring Stephanie Zimbalist
and Pierce Brosnan. This happens to be one of my favorites.

Speaker 2 (01:18:14):
This is a Sharon pick. We have some very exciting
guests who will be joining us over the next few
episodes to talk about this show. Send in your questions.

Speaker 8 (01:18:24):
What do you want to know about Remington Steel, What
do you want to know about Laura Holt's deep dark Secrets?

Speaker 1 (01:18:31):
And let's say we got oh, I don't know. Stephanie
Zimbalist star Remington Steele on the show. What questions would
you have for her? Email us Eightiestvladies at gmail dot
com or go to the website Eightiestvladies dot com. We
hope Eighties TV Ladies brings you joy and laughter and
lots of fabulous new and old shows to watch, all

(01:18:52):
of which will lead us toward being amazing ladies of
the twenty first century.

Speaker 6 (01:19:02):
Some gowns have all the luck. Some gowns have all
the pain. This guy looks heart with throg Steward.

Speaker 4 (01:19:13):
Same gown starts back at Missus Kane, where this man

All Episodes

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

Stuff You Should Know

Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang

Crime Junkie

.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}RERUN: Reflecting on Scarecrow and Mrs. King: An Interview with Martha Smith

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

.css-r6mb8g{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:1;overflow:hidden;}Stuff You Should Know

Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang

Crime Junkie

All Episodes

RERUN: Reflecting on Scarecrow and Mrs. King: An Interview with Martha Smith

Stuff You Should Know