Television Trailblazer Marsha Posner Williams: On Golden Girls and Emmy Wins, Part 1

“Even more so than All in the Family, we had protesters outside our office... We used to keep our curtains closed because we were afraid someone was gonna throw a brick through the window.” - Marsha Posner Williams on 'Soap'

In this episode of 80s TV Ladies, hosts Susan Lambert Hatem and Sharon Johnson interview Marsha Posner Williams, an Emmy and Golden Globe-winning producer known for her work on hit shows such as ‘Soap,’ 'Benson,' 'Night Court,' and 'The Golden Girls.' Dive into Marsha's fascinating career journey as she shares intriguing and hilarious anecdotes about her experiences in Hollywood, including her connection to Marlo Thomas's fan club.

She tells us about working with Danny Thomas, Paul Junger Witt, Tony Thomas, and Susan Harris! And shares the trials and triumphs of producing controversial yet iconic TV shows alongside Danny Thomas, Paul Junger Witt, Tony Thomas and Susan Harris. From typing jokes and working as a hostess dancer to her involvement in groundbreaking, controversial and iconic TV shows, Marsha's story is one of resilience, ambition, and a keen sense of humor. Tune in to hear her insights on the evolving landscape of television and her contributions to the most memorable shows of the 70s, 80s, and 90s. Stay tuned for more in Part 2!

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00:00 Welcome to 80s TV Ladies
00:37 Introducing Marcia Posner Williams
01:51 Marcia's Early Inspirations
05:28 Journey to Hollywood
08:05 Struggles and Breakthroughs
11:05 First Big Break in Hollywood
20:23 Working with Danny Thomas
23:11 Unpredictability of Live TV
23:28 First Steps in Television
23:45 Working with Susan Harris
25:15 Controversies of 'Soap'
26:39 Fan Reactions and Personal Stories
32:39 Promotion to Script Supervisor
34:17 Transition to Producing
38:34 Memorable Moments on Set
46:39 From 'Benson' to 'Night Court'
47:34 Negotiating Conditions for 'Hail to the Chief'


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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
Weirding Way Media.

Speaker 2 (00:08):
And so Pretty Through the City.

Speaker 1 (00:18):
Man World. Welcome to eighties TV ladies were rose from
The Golden Girls. Likes to say the older you get,
the better you get, unless you're a banana. Here are
your hosts, Susan Lambert HadAM and Sharon Johnson.

Speaker 3 (00:39):
Hey, I'm Sharon Johnson and.

Speaker 2 (00:41):
I'm Susan Lambert HadAM.

Speaker 3 (00:43):
Our guest today is Marsha Posner Williams. She has produced
over four hundred episodes of primetime network television and won
two Primetime Emmys and three Golden Globes.

Speaker 2 (00:54):
Some of the most remarkable series that Marsha produced include
Soap Ben, Hail to the Chief, Amen, Night Court, and
of course, The Golden Girls. Originally from Arizona, Marcia came
to Los Angeles to pursue a career in television. She
worked her way up from Dirty Joe writer and typist
to multiple award winning producer of some of the most

(01:16):
popular television shows of the eighties and beyond.

Speaker 3 (01:20):
Marcia co authored a humor book called How To Get
Even with Your Ex and produce pretty much every kind
of film.

Speaker 2 (01:28):
And today she's on with us to talk about her
incredible career. The Golden Girls and all the amazing seventies, eighties,
and nineties television she worked on.

Speaker 3 (01:40):
So thrilled to have her on today's show, Welcome to
Eighties Tevie Ladies. Ms. Marcia Posner Williams.

Speaker 4 (01:47):
Yay, so happy to be here. Thank you for having me.

Speaker 2 (01:50):
Thank you for being such an incredible Eighties Ladies producer
and coming on to talk with us about the Golden
Girls and your story. Now I read that when you
start did that part of what started your love of television?
Was that Girl?

Speaker 4 (02:04):
Correct?

Speaker 2 (02:05):
And which, for our listeners is the nineteen sixties cutting
edge comedy starring Marlow Thomas.

Speaker 4 (02:11):
She just aged me.

Speaker 2 (02:12):
Okay, no, I watched it too. I did too, the
first show about young single girl leaving home trying to
make it on her own in the big city. That
was a ground breaking show for the time, which is
so sad when you start to think about it. But
what was it about that show for you? Well?

Speaker 4 (02:32):
I actually knew since even before that, that this is
the business I wanted to work in.

Speaker 2 (02:37):
Oh.

Speaker 4 (02:37):
I think there was a television addict as a kid,
and I just always kept saying, how do they do that?
How do they do that? But let me tell you
a great story about that girl. There's a couple of them. This,
as you said, was a story that of a young
girl trying to make it in Hollywood as an actress.
And I was so enthralled with that that I became
a member of the Marlo Thomas fan club back in

(02:59):
the day, and I used to write letters to the
president of the Marl Thomas Fan Club saying, what's it
like to be in Hollywood? Do you get to go
on stage? You get to talk to the actors and
I and she always wrote me back, Oh, it was wonderful.
Little did I know that years later I would end
up doing the first sitcom of my career with Marl

(03:19):
Thomas's father, Danny Thomas. Amazing and at the very last
show Danny Thomas ever started, I would produce, which was
a terrible show. Well it was a show called One
Big Family. Okay we call it One Big Boring Family.
But anyway, that's a side. So there wasn't. This was
the seventh grade something like that, watching that Girl every week?

Speaker 2 (03:42):
Cut too.

Speaker 4 (03:43):
I'm now in Hollywood, I'm in the business. I did
sop I did Benson, and now I'm doing a show
called condo with McLean Stevenson and it's the first day
of the first episode and we have a kid on
the show. I think it was played by Mark Price.
So we need a teacher and everybody's introduced and everybody
so I go up to the teacher. We're talking, and

(04:05):
she said, Marsha Posner. Marsha Posner, are you, by any
chance from scottstell Arizona. I said yes. She said, I
used to be the president of the Marlo Thomas fan club.
I'm the one you used to write to. What how
about that for a story?

Speaker 2 (04:19):
Oh my god, that's amazing.

Speaker 4 (04:22):
Is that a great story?

Speaker 2 (04:23):
That is a great story? Right, that is a great
like dream of Hollywood to Hollywood story right.

Speaker 4 (04:29):
Full circle right? And then of course stand up working
for Marlow's brother for all those years.

Speaker 2 (04:35):
Yes, amazing, amazing. So what were there other shows that
also inspired you?

Speaker 4 (04:41):
Well, believe it or not. Mission Impossible was a show
that I was completely addicted to because I kept saying,
how do they do that? How do they do that?
How do they change their look? How do they make
these things happen? I was totally enamored with it, and
unfortunately I wasn't around on the Golden Girls when Peter
Graves was But it would have been a love fest.
I can tell you that right now, because that show

(05:05):
was very meaningful to me.

Speaker 2 (05:06):
Oh wow, I you know, obviously television shows inspired us,
so we always like to hear what shows inspired everyone else. Yes,
But the difference.

Speaker 3 (05:17):
Between the difference between Susan and me THO is like you, Marcia,
Susan watched and went how do they do that? And
I just watched and went, oh, this is great. Bring
on the next show that I want to watch.

Speaker 4 (05:28):
But that's what makes a great audience, right, Yes, it's
all good. It's all good.

Speaker 2 (05:34):
So when did you go? I got to get to La?
And how did you get to La? So?

Speaker 4 (05:40):
Unfortunately I lost my mother when I was a senior
in high school. I became a little rebellious and I
went to Arizona State for a year, disliked every moment
of my experience there, and went for about another maybe
half a year, and I said to my dad, I
can't do this anymore. My sister is a smart one,
her be a college person. I want to go to work.

(06:03):
So I started working in a local independent station at
Phoenix KPHOTV, which was the first color station in the country.

Speaker 2 (06:11):
Oh wow.

Speaker 4 (06:13):
So I got a job as a secretary, and I
had worked there for two years. Now, Arizona is a
very conservative state, as we know now, but back then
it was assumed if you were a female who wanted
a career, it was assumed you were going to be
a secretary. So I knew after two years at that place,

(06:34):
I needed to I want to go to the big time.
This is stupid, this is ridiculous. So it was at
twenty two or twenty three is when I made that decision.
I got to get out. Should I tell you what happened? Yes, yes,
I love telling this story. Actually, so I packed up
my little car, drove to Hollywood, lasted twenty four hours,

(06:55):
and I was back in Arizona. I said to my dad,
I don't know one person there. I don't know what
to do. I have no idea, and they have more
than one freeway out there. That just scares the crap
out of me. Anyway, So I lasted a couple of
weeks in Phoenix. Again when said this is ridiculous, drove
back to Hollywood, lasted two weeks, and back to Arizona.

(07:19):
I went. It was just so scary for me. I'd
never been outside of you know, Arizona. And when I
got back to Arizona that second time, I actually had
six job offers waiting for me because I had this
one skill, which was I could type one hundred and
twenty words a minute. I'm a selectric typewriter. Wow, no computers,

(07:41):
but that's what they clocked me at one hundred and
twenty two.

Speaker 2 (07:43):
That's fast.

Speaker 4 (07:45):
And I love talking about this with young people. I
had to decide, right then, do I want to stay
here and be safe? But always wonder the rest of
my life what would have happened if I had had
the guts enough to pursue what it is I think
I really want to do. And again, what I loved
telling young people is I didn't want to go through
life saying what if. So that sentiment, the difference between

(08:09):
a goal and a wish is your motivation. That sentiment
brought me back to Hollywood. And I will tell you
in all honesty, my first two years in LA were
so bad, so horribly struggling, because again I had nobody
leading me. I had nobody mentoring me or helping me.

(08:30):
So I ended up, of course, taking to temporary jobs
typing just to make some money. But then I realized
I can't figure out the business during the day if
I'm doing these crappy jobs, I need a job at night.
Did I end up working at a restaurant?

Speaker 2 (08:47):
No?

Speaker 4 (08:48):
Did I end up working in maybe a hotel?

Speaker 2 (08:51):
No.

Speaker 4 (08:52):
I took a job as a hostess dancer, which in
the old days was known as the Diamond Dance Girls.
The song private Dancers what Tina Turner saying about ten
cents of dance right, So I became a hostess dancer
and the old terms was a taxi dancer and fifteen

(09:14):
cents a minute dancing with guys who didn't even speak
English and or shooting pool or just sitting and talking
to them. And then things got worse and that didn't
work out, and I ended up sleeping in my car.

Speaker 2 (09:26):
Oh myself, I know, where did you do that? Can
I ask? Because I'm sure there were places all over
there were Was it Hollywood?

Speaker 4 (09:33):
It was? I guess, okay, what Easter East Hollywood Big Ballroom.
They had a live band two days a week for
people want to dance. But imagine the music's going like
really fast and everyone's dancing slow. Do I need to
say anything else.

Speaker 2 (09:49):
That's so like, you know, the mom and me is
terrified for you. The being a young person out in
LA I know that it experience a lot. Thankfully I
had college as a guide for that, but not knowing
how to start is the hardest thing, of course.

Speaker 4 (10:08):
And when we're done here and everything's turned off, I'll
show you the picture of one of the outfits I
used to go in, and that is pretty interesting. Of course,
it was the seventies. We're all hippied out, hot pants,
go go boots, fringe piece signs everywhere. Yeah, but if
you don't try, how do you know?

Speaker 2 (10:25):
Yeah?

Speaker 4 (10:26):
And honestly, the struggling makes the getting there that much better.
If it's handed to you, what's the fun in that? Seriously,
there's no story. There's no story to me. Yeah, I
think I have a story, absolutely, yes.

Speaker 3 (10:43):
But something made you hang on those two years and
just keep pushing forward to try to obtain to reach
your goal, which exactly, yeah, exactly, quite amazing.

Speaker 4 (10:56):
At some point I did say, well, what am I
going to do if this doesn't work out?

Speaker 2 (11:00):
But I didn't.

Speaker 4 (11:01):
I did think about it, but it didn't happen, so yay.

Speaker 2 (11:05):
Yay, So when did what was the breakthrough? The first
break Yeah? Okay, So while I was the hostess dancer,
one of the girls that worked there was a young
aspiring actress and she was telling me about this really
low budget movie she had just was that they were shooting.

(11:25):
I said, oh, do they need help? Do they need help?

Speaker 4 (11:27):
Well, she got me an interview with the company, and
I kind of use the term loosely, but there were
like two people three people that worked at the company.
The executive producer owned the company, a writer, and then
a male secretary that they had. So I went in
and I met the head guy and I said, look,
I'm going to tell you something I don't normally tell
people because it gets me to places I don't normally

(11:49):
want to be. But I can type one hundred and
twenty words a minute. And he pointed to the male
secretary and he said, do you want that job? I
said yes. So the next two years and I'm not
kidding when I tell you this. Oh, let me tell
you the kind of movies they made. They made two
feature films of nothing but dirty jokes. So back in

(12:12):
the day there was a genre like that groove tube,
tunnel vision, Kentucky Fried movie. We're all vignette vignette vignette, right,
just like a Saturday Night live vignette vignette vignette. Well,
that's what this was. So for the next two years,
all I did, five days a week was reading type jokes.

(12:32):
That's all I did. So I tell people don't test
me because you'll lose because I am locked, loaded, and
ready at all times, at all times, all times.

Speaker 2 (12:44):
Can you give us one?

Speaker 4 (12:46):
Well, yes I can, and you can decide whether to
keep it in the show or not. I'll give you
my favorite. Okay, So picture three bad guys standing on
a street corner and the bad guy says, boy, I
wish I could like rob a bank, because then I'd
have enough money to buy me that beautiful Mercedes park

(13:06):
right over there. And the second bad guy says, I
know what you mean. If I could hold up an
armored truck, I could afford to buy that beautiful Cadillac
park right next to the Mercedes. And the third bad
guy says, nah, I just wish I could give guys
good blowjobs. And the second guy says give guys good blowjobs?
What do you mean why? And he said, because my
sister doesn't she owns both those cars. So we put

(13:31):
that on film. Oh my god, visual, isn't it.

Speaker 2 (13:37):
It's very visual now. So that was just your job, yes,
and you did that for two years.

Speaker 4 (13:46):
That's right, And then I quit. I didn't have another
job to go to, but I just quit because the
one hundred and fifteen dollars a week just wasn't making
for me.

Speaker 3 (13:56):
But was there anything that you learned working there that
that actually helped you later on as you were making
beginning to make your way and other jobs at other PA.

Speaker 4 (14:08):
I can tell you that the more I work, the
more confident I got in my ability, which is why
when I quit having no job, that took guts, right.
And at this time now I'm living with roommates who
took me out of my car when I was homeless
for it wasn't too long, but one night is long enough, right,
And so now there are five of us, three guys,

(14:29):
two girls living together and so from home for a
few weeks. The phone rings one night and it says woman,
she asked for me, and she said, you don't know me.

Speaker 2 (14:38):
I don't know you.

Speaker 4 (14:38):
I'm calling from MGM Studios. I'm working with the show
starring Danny Thomas. We're starting our second season of a
show called The Practice. The creator of the show name
a wonderful guy named Steve Gordon, is flying in to
help kick off the second season and we need a
secretary to work with him for just four weeks, only
just four weeks. Can you start Monday? For two hundred

(15:00):
dollars a week plus overtime. So of course I said yes.
I hung up the phone called my father immediately. He said,
guess what I've made it? MGM Studios, NBC Danny Thomas,
who of course I knew who that was. I've made it.

Speaker 2 (15:16):
This is it?

Speaker 4 (15:17):
Well, the woman said to me, listen, I just want
to let you know. Steve really nice guy, but he's
a hypochondriac to the nth degree. She said, But it's
four weeks. You can put up with anything. I said,
I can put up with anything, so no worries.

Speaker 2 (15:32):
Well, I'm so excited, and I'm so excited for the
young you getting that call.

Speaker 4 (15:38):
Yes, yes, and going yeah Thomas on the phone, right right.
So of course, what I said to myself, No, I
don't want to be a secretary, but I'm smart enough
to know the toughest thing to do in this business
is get your foot in the door, right, So what
am I going to do to make them remember me
in four weeks? And the answer was simple, spoil them rotten. Well,

(16:01):
I brought my own typewriter into that office because I
didn't like the one that they had, and nobody could
touch how fast I was right, And Steve was just
a wonderful guy to work with. And when he found
out who I was dating at the time, which is
another story, he went out of his mind crazy and
was and when people would come to have a meeting

(16:23):
with them, the first thing they'd say, he'd say, is
you know how she's dating? And then it would take
off them anyway, that's whatever.

Speaker 2 (16:30):
So I mean, we have to know who. We have
to go back. What year is this?

Speaker 4 (16:36):
This is seventy five? Okay, who were you dating? I
was dating the most famous actor in the world probably
at the time in the porn business. No, no, but
you're close. But you're close that guy. No, no, no,
but you're close.

Speaker 2 (16:55):
No.

Speaker 4 (16:56):
What's the most famous adult movie to this day ever made?

Speaker 2 (17:00):
We are out of my wheelhouse? Deep deep throat? Yeah yeah,
deep throat?

Speaker 4 (17:05):
Are you looking that up?

Speaker 2 (17:06):
I'm going to look it up. Because I don't have
this at the top of her Is it the name
that comes to mind? It to be kidding me. You
are dating the doctor. That's fantastic, that's fantastic. I know
exactly who you were doating. Yeah, you know this film
you have not seen. I haven't even seen it.

Speaker 3 (17:22):
I haven't seen it either.

Speaker 2 (17:23):
I haven't seen it either, none of you. Oh, dear Harry,
I think I just submitted something. Harrys. The name is
Harry Reams. Was that his real name? No?

Speaker 4 (17:32):
Okay, Herbert Striker even better Striker, nice Jewish boy. Yeah,
Herbie's Driker. Yeah, oh my god.

Speaker 2 (17:42):
Okay, you are having a Hollywood time as you are
in the seventies. He took me to the Playboo Mansion
three times. But anyway, we're going to have to start
another podcast for you. I'm telling you.

Speaker 4 (17:56):
I always said if I could write a book about
my life, I would hope it would be and in Florida.

Speaker 2 (18:03):
Well, apparently that's very easy to do this assarently.

Speaker 4 (18:06):
Yeah. So, so Steve was amazing, and he was a hypochondriac.
But every time he'd say he said to me when
he first met me, listen, if I ask you for
a cup of coffee. I need you to make it
from a fresh pot. I said, no worries, that's fine,
it's easy. Just know I'll be away from my desk
a little bit longer. He said, that's okay. You know
the phone rings all answered okay. Every time he'd asked

(18:27):
me for a cup of coffee. You know, i'll be back.
When I'm back, i'd go talk to all the other
people in the office, wait about ten minutes, just pour
it from the regular pot and give it to him.
He didn't know, he didn't care. It was also mental.
You had a little hutz book. Just remember one thing
about hypochondriacs. Eventually they're right.

Speaker 2 (18:48):
Correct, right, So I did not anticipate talking. I'm just
going to go back for a minute. That we have
talked about field yet it is our favorite thing to
do to get off you listen. Usually just want to
Sharon or eye. But is this the time when you
say it's more than we wanted to know? But never

(19:10):
ever love this because as you were saying, there wasn't
a way for women to break into the industry. Correct,
you broke in as a secretary, right or an assistant right?

Speaker 4 (19:23):
Right? But again, when you're good at what you do.
I believe good things will happen no matter if it's
a man's world or not. And again because of the
sense of humor that I have just worked for me
and does to this day. Yes, And so what happened next? Okay,

(19:44):
so four weeks turned into four months. They Steve went
back to New York, They fired or she quit, the
secretary to the executive producer, an amazing guy named Sam
Danoff who Persky Danoff if you know that those names
from the Dick Van Dyke Show and all that, And
so I became his assistant. And then the show got canceled,

(20:05):
and I think it was Tony Thomas or Paul Witt,
who were producing the show, came to me and said,
we know you got a layoff notice, but we have
formed our own company and you're coming with us. And
with Thomas, Harris was born and I was the first employee.

Speaker 2 (20:21):
That is that's crazy. Yeah. And so now did you
get to did you get to hang out with Danny
Thomas at all?

Speaker 4 (20:30):
Well, because I went on to co produce the first
three telephons for Danny for Saint Jude Children's Research Hospital. Yes,
I love Danny. I loved him. He loved me. We
had a great relationship. When we were doing the telephone.
We would have meetings up at his house, and you know,
I just adored him. I adored him.

Speaker 2 (20:50):
He seemed like a great an actual great guy.

Speaker 4 (20:54):
Well just look at Saint Jude so right.

Speaker 2 (20:57):
I know, right, Yeah, such a groundbreak foundation right in
located in the South Desegregated Hospital. That's huge. Yeah, I'm
from Georgia. I know what that means a lot. It
was groundbreaking, and it was for kids, and it was
I mean, they're they're responsible for kids not dying of

(21:17):
lu kid exactly, exactly directly. Yeah, I was crazy about him.

Speaker 3 (21:22):
What can you tell us about how that all came
about and then how you ended up being the co producer.

Speaker 4 (21:30):
Of the telephon or Oh, it's because Danny's son, Tony
was my boss, right, and Tony all of a sudden, however,
they decided to do a telethon for Saint Jude for
the first time, and Tony said, I want you to
work on it. I want you to do it, and
so me and another guy, another guy and I did it.

(21:52):
And I just literally about two or three weeks ago,
found pictures from the telethons from one of them, at
least the first one, which Casey Caseum hosted. I remember,
and so I actually have pictures I can show you
later a few of them that show me and Tony
and Danny and Henry Winkler and Jay Johnson from Soap
and David Hasselhoff.

Speaker 2 (22:15):
So this is eighty six, No, no, seventies. Seventies, Yeah,
this is seventies. This is during soap days, So during
soap Okay, all right, wow that is now I'm dating
myself because I remember the telephon.

Speaker 4 (22:30):
Just remember, we keep the lights dim we all look younger.

Speaker 2 (22:33):
So that's what I do.

Speaker 3 (22:35):
And so what was as the co producer? What were
your duties? What were you what were you doing for
the teleph.

Speaker 4 (22:40):
The telephone we we scheduled the whole telethon. This is
how it's going to start, segments, everything, everything. So Tony
had to show up and we had to tell him
what to do. Now that's the way he liked it. So, yeah,
it was a monstrous job, and it was It wasn't
an endless telephon. It was only five hours, but five
hours of live TV is like one hundred hours of

(23:02):
anything else.

Speaker 2 (23:03):
Well, because the technology, so like now it's everything is
digitized and everything, and then you're talking about real phones,
people writing down real yes, yes, things, I remember the phones.

Speaker 4 (23:14):
Yeah remember that. Yes, no computers.

Speaker 3 (23:17):
Yeah, not to mention. Anything can happen since it's live.
Of course, could get stuck in traffic, somebody could have
you know, or something could go wrong with something on
set or whatever, and you anything deal with then move forward.

Speaker 4 (23:31):
Right, you always have to have a plan b right,
Oh my god.

Speaker 2 (23:34):
All right, So let's back up a little bit because
I want to talk about so the practice was the
first television show you worked on?

Speaker 4 (23:42):
Sitcom?

Speaker 2 (23:42):
Sitcom? And then you were as a secretary, you were typing.
What was the first show where you felt like, oh,
they've given me one more responsibility.

Speaker 4 (23:52):
So with Thomas Harris was formed. The first show that
they did was a show called loves Me, loves Me
with Susan Day and Ken Gilman. It was thirteen and out.
But I was the secretary at the company, one of
a couple of secretaries. But that show morphed into Soap. Okay,
the first season of Soap, Susan Harris single handedly wrote

(24:16):
all twenty two episodes by herself, and I was the
lucky one to be her secretary, her assistant, which meant
I was the first one to read what she had written,
because she would handwrite in longhand hand the pages to me,
and if she'd hear me furiously typing and then I'd
start laughing, she'd come running in which part, which part's funny,

(24:37):
Which part's funny?

Speaker 2 (24:38):
You know?

Speaker 4 (24:38):
So it was the most joyful place for me to
be a secretary, to be the first one to read
what Susan Harris wrote, because I think she's just off
the charts brilliant.

Speaker 2 (24:48):
I was. So can you tell us more about Susan
Harrison working with her and being I mean, being that
intimate on the beginning of what was really her voice? Right?
That was all her. We had done amazing writing before
on shows, yes, but this was her thing.

Speaker 4 (25:05):
This was not writing for somebody else's show, although she
had done the show fe with Lee Grant about a
woman who a divorced woman, and that was almost I
guess a no no in those days, because I guess
women never got divorced to talk about, like, please give
me a break. So, but this was her opportunity, as
well as Paul and TONI, to really push the envelope, which,

(25:28):
of course you know they did because to this day,
soap was the most controversial sitcom in the history of sitcoms,
even more so than All in the Family, right, because
we had protesters outside our office. Are all of us
with windows that face the street. We used to keep
our curtains closed because we were afraid someone was going
to throw a brick through the window.

Speaker 2 (25:47):
And where were your offices? Sunset Gower? Okay in those
days and so so amazing? So did they know, like
were they we want to make the most controversial show.

Speaker 4 (25:59):
Or to make a show that's real, Okay, real people. Yes,
we had a ventriloquist on the show, but come on,
how funny was that? Okay, how freaking funny was that guy?
And those characters, right, Chuck and Bob, come on? So
we somebody had to start all of that. Somebody had
to say, yes, these things exist in life, and don't forget.

(26:21):
This is the story of two families, and one of
the storylines was the tennis player played by Robert Urick
had an affair with Jessica the mother and Coreyn the daughter. Okay,
total soap opera, right, but hilarious, just hilarious. So I

(26:43):
loved being there through all of that controversy. I even
got a call one night on that first year before
we were ever on.

Speaker 2 (26:50):
The air, before you were on the air, but people
had heard about the show.

Speaker 4 (26:53):
Right and there was articles being written not well about
this show, and we were shooting, but we weren't on
the area yet. I love to tell this story. And
I'm working late outside Susan's office and it's about nine
o'clock at night, eight or nine o'clock, and the phone
rings and I pick it up, and this guy says.

Speaker 2 (27:14):
Okay, we're going to take a quick break and we
will be right back with Marsha Posner Williams.

Speaker 3 (27:23):
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Speaker 3 (28:56):
Hey, we're back. Let's continue our great conversation with mar
Ship Posner Williams and.

Speaker 4 (29:02):
I pick it up and this guy says, I'd like
the address of where I can write a letter about
this show. And I was so tired I decided to
take him on. What do I have to lose? And
I said, okay, but may I ask. I'm happy to
give you the address, but may ask what are you
writing about? Have you seen the show? He said, no,
it's not on the area yet. I said, so what

(29:23):
are you writing about? He said, well, I read an
article about what this show is. I said, okay, I understand.
So what you're telling me is is that you want
to write a letter based on someone else's opinion. So
what you're telling me? And I talked to this guy
for fifteen minutes and he said, you know what, You're right.
I'm going to wait and watch it myself and then

(29:43):
make a decision. I said, And don't forget television is art.
If you don't like it, don't watch it. But who
are you to tell anybody else that because you don't
like it, they shouldn't like it.

Speaker 2 (29:59):
Can you answer every phone in America right now?

Speaker 4 (30:03):
But yeah, isn't that's just common sense?

Speaker 3 (30:07):
Comes on? Sadly there still isn't any common sense in
this world, because that's exactly the way that I should
Why I know even to this day, and sadly.

Speaker 4 (30:17):
I know You're so right, But I must tell you
how many problems could we solve by just saying what
if it was you?

Speaker 2 (30:27):
Yeah?

Speaker 4 (30:28):
And that's why I'm I'm a humanist. That's the religion
I follow. I'm a humanist. Everybody is equal, everybody should
be treated equal, and everybody should be given a fair chance.
What's wrong with that? Okay?

Speaker 2 (30:43):
So there you go. Now, so can can we take
to take people back? Because I remember the controversy. I
was not allowed to watch Soap or Three's Company, but
I did watch both of them. But ultimately was what
were the biggest controversies? Was it basically that Billy Crystal
played a gay character. That was one of them. The

(31:06):
second one was the adultery. And then also we had
a priest, if you remember, Father Tim Flatsky, who wanted
to leave the priest to to marry his high school sweetheart.
Because I guess that never happens in real life, and
that was controversial, and so it just became this target now.
But it was called soap because and it was a

(31:26):
parody of soap operas.

Speaker 4 (31:27):
Because it was a continuing story. Every week and every
season was a continuation, which is why we used to
do retrospectives up to ninety minutes at the beginning of
each season to recap what happened last season. I know
because I used to be one of the team of
three or four that did all those clips.

Speaker 2 (31:43):
Yes, so there would be adultery on soap operas. Funny
that real. Yeah, Oh my goodness. And now here's my
question about Billy Crystal's character. Yes, did he have a

(32:05):
gay relationship in the show pilot? In the pilot, he's
in the relationship.

Speaker 4 (32:11):
Well, hef you. I mean, I'm asking you to go
back fifty years. But it started out with him and
the football player, Okay.

Speaker 2 (32:20):
All right, all right? Yeah, And when.

Speaker 4 (32:22):
He wanted to have a sex change operation, yes, and
I remember that's when his mother, Mary Campbell, the character
wanted to She was so upset about him wanting to
have a sex change operation, and she set a line
that I swear to you. We recorded this line when
we shot the show, but it's been taken out in syndication,

(32:46):
where she says to him out of desperation, Jody, it's
not like getting a haircut. It doesn't grow back. And
how funny is that line?

Speaker 2 (32:57):
And they took it out even in syndication it's gone.

Speaker 4 (33:00):
And in syndication, I believe it's gone. I have to Yeah,
it was. So you know, people who syndicate these shows
have no sense of humor. They just may want to
make it shorter to make room for commercials. So I
have no respects.

Speaker 2 (33:15):
I do remember this six cheange. Sorry, that's okay.

Speaker 3 (33:18):
I remember I watched. I watched soap. I loved it
from the beginning, thank you. I was I was a
few years older than I'm a few years older than Susan,
so I didn't have anybody to tell me I couldn't
or shouldn't. But yeah, and as a long time even
then soap opera viewer, it was it was clearly to

(33:42):
me just this parody, but it was screamingly funny.

Speaker 4 (33:46):
And and and it was the only sitcom, especially of
that time, in which you could be watching the scene
and laughing so much, and by the end of it
you're sobbing, sobbing.

Speaker 2 (33:58):
And what you're working with Susan Harris at the very like,
very beginning, very beginning, Yes, and you're watching this woman
that's going to change the face of television, yes, right, yes,
and one of the women that's going to be the
groundbreaking women of television? Did you know it? Were you like,
this is it? No?

Speaker 4 (34:18):
No, I wasn't that smart. But I can tell you
after season one they promoted me, so I knew something
was happening. I knew I being good at what I
did was working right, because now they promoted me to
script supervisor And I said, what script supervisor? How's that work?

(34:42):
And back in those days, it was a stop watch
to time everything. And how joyful and lucky was I
to be on that stage five days a week with
a cast of Gigantic with the greatest director in half

(35:02):
hour television, which was Jay Sandridge. To be right there
in the booth on stage, timing everything and throwing lines out.
It was joyful for me. But I also knew six
weeks into that job, this is not what I want
to do the rest of my career because of that.

Speaker 2 (35:21):
Was going to be.

Speaker 3 (35:21):
Yeah, that was gonna be my question. If that makes
you feel like this is what I wanted or hey,
this is a start, but I want to go somewhere else.

Speaker 4 (35:29):
Yes. One of the wonderful things about that job is
that I only worked when the stage was working, So
we used to do three weeks on and then a
week coatus for catch up. Right, the office still worked,
but the stage didn't work. So those down weeks on
the stage I would spend in post production learning all

(35:50):
of that as much as I could, So that served
more than one purpose. And then what happened was after
the third season, now we do the pilot of Benson.
Benson gets picked up. Now they've got two shows on
the air, and I get the call, you're being kicked
back upstairs. So now the decision was made for me,

(36:11):
and it was a great decision. So because I did
the whole season as a script supervisor, got that under
my belt. I still have to stop watch they gave me.
I still have it to this day. And now I'm
upstairs and they're working for focusing on Benson while I'm
really focused on soap, on the last two years of soap.

Speaker 2 (36:31):
So they basically in some ways handed off. Is that
when you became a producer.

Speaker 4 (36:35):
Well that was associated and then just you know, everything
just happened after that.

Speaker 2 (36:41):
And was that were you like, yeah, I want that job.
Were you figuring out exactly what you want? You just
knew you wanted.

Speaker 4 (36:46):
I just fit in. It just happened and it worked. Yeah,
it was thrilling, It was wonderful.

Speaker 3 (36:52):
What was it about that that you that you made
you realize? This is this is where I need to be,
this is the spot right.

Speaker 4 (37:00):
I loved sitting behind the desk and looking at a
script and making suggestions or decisions on everything, which as
a full blown producer, that was my job when a
network or studio would hand me a script and a
budget and say, try not to spend it all. And
then every department head was almost every department ed was

(37:22):
hired because of me or I did hire them, and
then I told them what they had to spend or
not to spend, and I had a modicum of control.
And I just loved overseeing all of that. And I'm
also somebody who if I don't know something, I'll tell
you I don't know, but I'll find out who does.

(37:44):
I'm never one of those people who thinks they know everything.
Gee who could that be? But anyway, we all.

Speaker 2 (37:52):
Know people like that, right, Yes, there's not too many
of that in Hollywood. All right? So, uh so I did.
But you were also on Benson. So were you splitting
your time or not at that point? Okay? Were you
stayed on soap.

Speaker 4 (38:09):
I stayed on Soap. I did the pilot of Benson
and then stayed on soap. And then with soap was over,
I did I think a couple of years of Benson, okay,
and then things changed.

Speaker 2 (38:18):
All right, and so like, let's talk about the end
of soap.

Speaker 4 (38:22):
Yeah terrible?

Speaker 2 (38:24):
Yeah, so what what what was going on on the
on the stage and up in the offices.

Speaker 4 (38:29):
Well, they didn't realize, don't forget, we had the right
wing after us the whole time they were They went
after all the advertisers. It was ABC was a champ.
They were really good at keeping us on the air
despite the moral majority focus on the family, the right
wing not realizing it's just a TV show. If you

(38:52):
don't like it, don't watch it, and if enough people
don't watch it, it'll go off the air. But like,
don't get me started, okay, just don't get me started.
So at the end, the storyline kind of went off
the rails, and but nobody thought in the world the
show was going to get canceled. But it did. It

(39:14):
got canceled. Jessica was about to face a firing squad,
and we never know what happened.

Speaker 2 (39:20):
Oh well, now was there ever, any talk of a
soap movie.

Speaker 4 (39:24):
No, wouldn't have been the same. Yeah, it wouldn't have
been the same without.

Speaker 2 (39:28):
The Well it hasn't stopped anybody else, I.

Speaker 4 (39:31):
Know, I know, but you know, because the four they're
all gone, it just wouldn't be the same.

Speaker 3 (39:37):
Oh, just like just.

Speaker 4 (39:39):
Like with the Golden Girls, it just wouldn't be the same.

Speaker 3 (39:41):
It's light. Well, just for our own edification, by any chance,
had they decided what was going to happen to poor
Jessica in front of that firing.

Speaker 4 (39:49):
Squad, not that I know of, not at that point,
not at that point. Curses, curses, I know, right, I agree,
come on, crazy.

Speaker 2 (40:02):
So then you go on to Benson, what was it like,
What was it like working with the soap actors and actresses?

Speaker 4 (40:08):
Well, I loved Robert Giolme. I just love that guy.

Speaker 2 (40:12):
You have a great story about soap.

Speaker 4 (40:14):
I do, and I'm so glad you asked. This is
season one when I was working with Susan. So we
had a run through one day, right, and as was
typical after the run through the with Thomas Harris would
come back up to Susan's office, Jay Sanders to come
up to the office and they talk about the run through,
what kind of changes they might have to make, And

(40:36):
Susan's door was almost always open so I could hear
if she needed me or anything. And in the middle
of them talking, Ted Wasak, who played Danny, comes into
their office and I hear him say, I can't believe it.
I'm getting fan mail for the first time. This is
so exciting. We had just been on the air, right, Okay,

(40:57):
So now cut to a few weeks later, we go
to run through, they come back up to Susan's office,
they're all talking. In comes Ted again, and I hear
Ted say, you're not gonna void it. I'm getting all
this fan mail now, it's so fabulous. But I got
this one letter from a girl back east who said

(41:21):
to me she thought I was so handsome and so cute,
and she said, I'll probably never get to meet you,
but I just want you to know what it would
be like if we spent one night together. And I
hear Ted say, and this girl went into graphic detail, right,

(41:41):
and everybody is just thinking, Wow, this is whatever. Probably
two or three years later, I told Ted I had
written that letter, which I had. I spent two weeks
writing this letter to perfection. I addressed it to him

(42:02):
with a fake return address. Drop that in an envelope,
put that envelope in another envelope, mailed it to my
friend in New York, and said, please drop this in
the mailbox so it has an East Coast post stamp
on it.

Speaker 2 (42:16):
Oh my god, you are trickster.

Speaker 4 (42:19):
And you know what he said to me when I confessed,
He said, I should have known it was you because
I've had a joke in it that when you were
done with me at the end of the night and
I couldn't even see straight when I went to leave,
and I opened the door and walked into the closet.

Speaker 2 (42:37):
Oh my god, so you fit right in. Well, come
on to me. Is that a great story? A great story? Well,
because this is the time of fan letters, right, no Twitter, right,
no Instagram. It's all like, if you cared enough to
write a letter, you cared someone was going to read it.

(42:57):
I was going to read it.

Speaker 3 (43:01):
Did you ever think about being a writer? I mean,
obviously you're very very good at.

Speaker 4 (43:07):
Very bad and looking at a blank page and doing
something with it. But if somebody hands me something and
I think I can make it funnier, I will make
that suggestion, but no, not all right. I did write
a joke book. I co wrote a joke book, but
as a one liner joke book called how to Get
Even with Your Ex, which Betty White had when she
died and went up for auction. You can ask me

(43:28):
about that later because that was crazy.

Speaker 2 (43:30):
Oh my gosh.

Speaker 4 (43:31):
Anyway, all right.

Speaker 2 (43:33):
So you're on. So you're sending letters to the cast
telling about deep dark sexual secrets who me and uh
and then but then they bring you on to Benson
and so working with the cast. I think we were

(43:53):
also talking about the casts and Benson. I'm curious about
working with NGOs Swinson and Missy Gold.

Speaker 4 (44:04):
And Rene albersonoir Ethan Phillips. They were all fabulous, just fabulous.
And I'm starting to laugh because I'm remembering something that
happened on that show with Robert Giehm and did kN
right right? Should I tell you what I happen? Yes?

Speaker 2 (44:21):
Please?

Speaker 4 (44:21):
Okay. So we had a director named John Rich who
was very very well known for All the Family, et cetera,
et cetera. And John was an interesting character. I'll just
leave it at that. So we're having a camera blocking
run through, which means we're watching the run through on

(44:42):
camera as they're okay, because all day they spent doing
the shots with the cameras. Okay. So normally on a sitcom,
you on an audience sitcom, we would you dry block,
no cameras three days a week, bringing the cameras and
the audio and all that block it, and then the
next day you shoot it.

Speaker 2 (44:59):
Okay.

Speaker 4 (45:00):
So this is the camera blocking run through. So everyone's
in the booth, the director's associate director, script supervisor, all them,
and then the writers and me. We're in the booth okay,
and everyone on stage, the crew, they all have headsets
on so they can hear the director and the associated
director right, okay. So we do a scene, and of

(45:25):
course we have the monitors. We're all watching on monitors,
and we finish the scene in the stage manager says, okay,
moving on wardrobe change, so we watch all the cameras
move to the next set. And then the first two
people to walk into the set were Robert Giome and
Dde Khan. So while they're waiting for the rest of

(45:46):
the cast, they kind of start horse playing with each
other and we're watching on camera. Nothing's rolling because we
don't have tape, and somehow or another, D. D. Kahan
gets her wire earring, which you know what those look like.
I caught in Bob's mid tie, right on his chest,
so her head is stuck right there, and she's trying

(46:09):
to extricate herself, and everybody on the floor and in
the booth is laughing like crazy. And John Rich says, boy,
I wish we were rolling tape. This would be so
great for the blooper reel. And in the back row,
big mouth over here says and everybody on the floor
heard it because the headsets are open. I said, you know,

(46:33):
that reminds me of the time my boyfriend got his
brace is cut in my iud oh go, And everybody
went to the floor except John Rich, who turned to me.
His face was beat red, and he said, I can't
believe I just heard you say that. Meanwhile, at that moment,

(46:58):
I think I'm the funniest person on the planet because
everybody was dying right.

Speaker 2 (47:03):
Okay.

Speaker 4 (47:04):
Cut to the next day tape day I'm the first
one in the booth. Nobody's in the booth. The next
person to almost walk in the booth but stopped short
when he saw me was John Rich. And he looked
at me, and this is exactly what happened. He said, well,
miss Posner, what sexual perversion do you have for us today?

(47:26):
And I thought, oh, pal, you just asked the wrong person,
And without thinking for a split second, I said, funny
you should ask, because just last night I perfected the
back one and a half over the bed postmount in
the layout position degree of difficulty nine point eight. What'd
you do? And he didn't talk to me the rest
of the day. You fit right, welcome to my world.

(47:53):
That is Oh my god.

Speaker 2 (47:55):
You. I just love the idea that you stopped John
Rich in his track.

Speaker 4 (48:00):
I completely stopped him in his tracks completely, two days
in a row.

Speaker 2 (48:07):
Oh my god, Oh my god. All right, all right,
there's so many questions, so many Okay, so from Benson,
you went on to Halls to the Chief, No, I
didn't night Court. You did a night Court? Yeah, so
many shows, so many iconic shows, so many iconic shows.

(48:27):
Were they just like, yeah, it was it was lucky,
lucky me. And I still wasn't an actual producer producer
yet on night Court, but I was there, and I
the third season and uh and it was at the
end of the third season when I got a call
from Tony who said, look, we're doing a show called

(48:47):
Hail to the Chief. It's seven episodes, just like soap.

Speaker 4 (48:50):
We need you back. And I said, well, I'll come
in and i'll talk to you about it. I wasn't
that happy at Night Court, and it was Night Court.
I did it second and I knew it was going
to go on. It was a big hit by that time,
by the end of the second season. So I went
in and I said to Tony because they only had

(49:10):
they only had an order of seven episodes Hail to
the Chief, and I said, here are the following five
conditions under which I will return. And I just named
him off and I said take it or leave it
because I.

Speaker 2 (49:22):
Got a job. But now Night Court was not with Thomas, No,
it was so this was you leaving. Then I left
the nest, and then they wanted me to come back.

Speaker 4 (49:33):
Yes, that's nice, Yeah, of course, of course. But I said,
these are.

Speaker 2 (49:38):
The conditions, and what were the conditions.

Speaker 4 (49:41):
I will talk about that later. But they said yes
to everything because I said take it or leave it,
because I have a job. And I was feeling very
confident at the time because I knew I could go
back to Night Court without a problem. I loved Harry
Anderson and John Lorikett, and I mean I love the cast,
and so I knew it'd be okay.

Speaker 3 (50:05):
Wow, This amazing conversation with Marsha Posner Williams is going
to have to continue in part two, So next episode
will be the rest of our truly phenomenal conversation with her.
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Speaker 2 (51:00):
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Speaker 3 (51:13):
Anything Nat