Guillermo del Toro - The Devil's Backbone

Our scary movie coverage continues with Guillermo del Toro's 2001 Spanish language thriller, The Devil's Backbone! Amber shares her love for the director's unique ghost story while attempting to temper Jeff's expectations. 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Let's talk scary movie sub genres. Ghosts, slashers, zombies, monsters,
what is your go to?

Speaker 2 (00:13):
It's probably a tie between ghosts and vampires, but probably
more ghosts, the kind of houses.

Speaker 1 (00:20):
Even in a cold open you're gonna, Amber Lewis the answer.
I'd even say, I didn't even say vampires, and you're like,
it's vampire. You know this, this or that, it's it's vampires. Well,
you said ghosts, so I did. In that case. Uh,
let's let's talk ghosts. Let's talk about a film by
Guillel mel del Toro, his two thousand and one underrated

(00:43):
gothic ghost film The Devil's Backbone. Hello everybody, I'm Jeff Johnson,

(01:14):
I'm Amber Lewis, and this is a film by podcast Amber.
I I'm excited because it's October. We've been talking about
scary movies all month long, as we as we typically do,
and you like, we're putting the we're putting the show
together months ago. You're like, hey, I'm in I want

(01:40):
to talk del Toro, And immediately my thought was, okay,
I gotta go ahead and tell her that we can't
do Crimson Peak because we already did it. You know
that's probably what she wants to talk about. And then
you you come back and you're like it it's got

(02:00):
to be the Devil's back boom. Yeah, And I was like,
I was like, oh, okay, okay, my question to you,
because you could have picked any director, you could have mostly,
you could have picked any movie, and you were all
for Del Tour. What's what's the deal with del Tour?
Why is he your guy?

Speaker 2 (02:18):
I have such a crush on him, like it's Christopher Nolan,
And then like half a step below is Garima del Toro.
Like he is the most intelligent, sensitive, aeradite, amazing guy,
and if you listen to any interview of his, you
just completely fall in love with him. And then he
creates these movies that are just creepy and kind of

(02:42):
gross but beautiful, and it's just he's just fascinating to me.

Speaker 1 (02:49):
I don't think there's another director that can merge beauty
and horror as expertly as he does. I'm with you
on this, I'm with you on this.

Speaker 3 (03:00):
Yeah under percent.

Speaker 1 (03:02):
Yeah, well, and this isn't your first time talking about
your boy Giomo right no over on.

Speaker 2 (03:10):
The docum Base seventy seven podcast last year, we did
an episode on Mimic, which is not one of his
greatest for many many reasons, and we go very deep
into that, but I also get to just expound about
how wonderful he is. So it's one of my favorite

(03:31):
episodes that we've done.

Speaker 1 (03:33):
I if you weren't going to bring it up, I
That's that's why I had to mention it right now,
because I thought that was a fantastic episode and it
helped me understand why you wanted to do a del
Toro film here. And I'm already like, I'm already thinking, like, well,
what's what's the next del Tora film that we can do,

(03:54):
you know, next season or you know season after that. Well,
we'll we'll we'll have to we'll have to have that conversation.
But before we get to the Devil's Backbone, I got
a shout out. We got another new Patreon member joining us. Yeah, absolutely,
Chris Weber. I know he's listening. Chris is Amber. Chris

(04:18):
is an awesome guy. Uh. You know how every group
has that one guy who has like an encyclopedia knowledge
with like records or you know, music or movies. We
all we all have that the go to guy in
the group, right, like Phaser sets a stun. Wayne is

(04:39):
basically data or mister Spock, like he knows everything. I'm
a star trek, right, Yes, Chris, good buddy, Chris. Uh,
this is the guy who can tell you anything when
it comes to vinyl. I I just you know, I
got the shop with him a couple of weeks ago.
We're we're actually in Missouri for the Shirley Fest, uh,

(05:01):
for with our with our good friends Jason d from
the Shirley You Keep Serious podcast, and Chris is like, hey,
I found this, found this this spot in town. You
got some vintage and just watching it, he was like
a surgeon. It was it was just it was it
was cool to see and he final he found something
that was like I don't know, Chris. Chris is probably
laughing because he's like, yeah, he has no idea what
he's talking about. But but it looked it was it

(05:23):
was very rare, like like I watched Chris look at
this thing and examine, you know, examine the actual record.
It was like watching Indiana Jones look at you know,
a relic.

Speaker 3 (05:34):
So I love people like that that just have that
niche knowledge.

Speaker 1 (05:39):
Yeah, fantastic guy. Uh, Chris, We're very happy to have
you on patroon. I already told him. I was like, listen,
you give us some feedback, you know, you tell us,
you know, because Amber, we got like fifty exclusive episodes
over there. Now, like the only way you can get
to it is through Patreon. So I told Chris is like, hey, man,

(05:59):
check it, check it out and let us know what's
working over there. Speaking of Patreon, earlier this month, we
did another entry in our film by Request for one
of our Patreon members, like Chris, Amber, you, David and Wayne.
Let everyone listening know that they should they should cross

(06:20):
over children, they should go into the light.

Speaker 2 (06:25):
Yes, we did a deep dive into the classic maybe
Poltergeist and I love those boys. We had such a
good time and Wayne did a great like breakdown of
the soundtrack as always, We just had a fantastic time
recording that episode.

Speaker 1 (06:42):
I real quick. The thing about Patreon that I love,
it gives us, like some of our limited series, it
gives us a chance to venture away from our format here,
which is you know, talking about underrated films from the
directors that we love and the a film by request.
That's it's awesome because like our Patreon members. You know,

(07:04):
when you're at that that certain tier, you can if
you want us to talk about a blockbuster film, or
a television movie from nineteen seventy three or a TV show.
It like, all bets are off, and it gives us
the chance to really flex our creat our creativity and
and have some fun. So I will just tell you listeners,

(07:25):
all are welcome, you know, step into the light of
our Patreon Go to us. Yeah, joined us. All welcome.
You can go to www dot patreon dot com. Slash
a film by podcast. You can sign up for a
free seven day trial. Check it out, you know, get

(07:45):
in there Columbia houses, download a bunch of stuff, check
it out, and then get out if you want, or
or stay we if you do, we got we got
a lot of fun a film by swag for you.
And even if you're not one hundred percent sure that
you're ready to do so, you can still join as
a free member because Amber, we have several free episodes

(08:07):
that we will will drop every now and then.

Speaker 3 (08:09):
Right, yep, nice little bonuses that we.

Speaker 1 (08:12):
Throw in absolutely all. Right, now that the Patreon talk
is out of the way, Amber, let's talk about mister
del Toro. Can you listen. I've talked about him before
a couple of seasons ago. This is your guy, Why
don't you if you're up for it, can you give
us maybe a couple of fun facts, maybe a quote

(08:33):
from the man.

Speaker 2 (08:35):
Yes, I tried to keep it short and I can
go on and on, and tried to do something like
a little different. So for the facts, one of my
favorite things about him is how much he loves fairy
tales and the horror genre and movies and all kinds

(08:56):
of art. So he actually has a second house that
he is filled with over ten thousand items, pieces of art, sculptures,
things from his films, different other pieces of movie memorabilia.
And then he's got the rooms divided into libraries with
different books. I mean, it's just this treasure trove of

(09:23):
gems that he's collected over the years.

Speaker 1 (09:26):
So this sounds like the ultimate Airbnb.

Speaker 3 (09:29):
Yes, I mean he could just open it up.

Speaker 2 (09:33):
Of course, he's very like he won't let anyone clean
it except himself because they'll touch things. So I think
he would not be able to handle having it as
like a museum with people walking through. But there's pictures
online from interviews that he's done and things like that,
and it's just amazing the things that he has in there.

(09:54):
So I love that about him. The other thing that
I wrote down was he's very His movies are just
so personal and are so meaningful to him. And for
hell Boy and Pan's Labyrinth, he actually traded his salary

(10:15):
to get better effects for the movies.

Speaker 1 (10:17):
You've got to be kidding me.

Speaker 2 (10:19):
Yeah, he hell Boy, like he loves that comic.

Speaker 3 (10:24):
He identifies with that character.

Speaker 2 (10:27):
He fought for years to have Ron Perlman play hell
Boy because that he decided that was the only person
that could play him and he had to have like
this certain look, and so he was like, fine, just
take my salary back, put it into the movie. And
the same thing for for Pan's Labyrinth. And I just

(10:49):
think that that's somebody that's so passionate about their work
that they're like, Okay, i'll pay for it, but it
has to be perfect.

Speaker 1 (10:57):
That's, you know, that is a That's a prime example
of someone that that it's like a labor of love.
They're they're doing it. They're not doing it for the money,
They're doing it because they want to put it out
in the world. I'd dig that about him. That's that's fantastic.
What else she got anything else?

Speaker 3 (11:10):
Yeah? One more fact is.

Speaker 2 (11:14):
That he's the first filmmaker to win Best Director and
Best Picture Oscars and then turn around and win an
Oscar for Best Animated Feature for different films in different years.

Speaker 1 (11:28):
I can't think of Wait, so he wins Best Picture.

Speaker 2 (11:31):
He won Best Director and Best Picture for the Shape
of Water in seventeen, and then in twenty twenty two
he won Best Animated Feature for Pinocchio.

Speaker 1 (11:40):
I can't think of anyone that's done that. Nope, he
was an animated Yeah. Okay, awesome, Yeah, very awesome. I know,
I know this guy. He doesn't shy away from the camera.
How about how about a good quote? Did you find
Did you happen to find a fun quote? Yes?

Speaker 2 (11:54):
I tried short, but if you if you look online,
there's actually books that go with his movies.

Speaker 3 (12:03):
I have the Crimson.

Speaker 2 (12:04):
Peak book, but I'm looking to get like Devil's Backbone
and Pen's Labyrinth and Shape of Water.

Speaker 3 (12:10):
But they're written by others.

Speaker 2 (12:12):
But he does the forward and it's all about the
production of the film and everything.

Speaker 3 (12:17):
So this is from the Devil's Backbone forward.

Speaker 2 (12:20):
He said, that this is, of course, after the first
movie he made, after Mimic, and if you want.

Speaker 3 (12:27):
To hear what a shit show that was.

Speaker 2 (12:30):
Like I said, head over to docu Base seventy seven
and we break it all down for you. But he
was almost like, Okay, maybe I'm not supposed to be Wow,
So he said about this movie making The Devil's Backbone,
I finally felt in command of my visual style, my
narrative rhythm, and was able to work in a profound

(12:50):
manner with my cast and crew to craft a beautiful
genre masher, a gothic tale set against the backdrop of
the greatest ghost engine of all war.

Speaker 3 (13:01):
The ghost is not the scariest thing in the tail.
It is human cruelty.

Speaker 1 (13:06):
Very Well said, I like that everything he says is.

Speaker 2 (13:10):
Like this, like he just opens his mouth and this
beautiful poetic stuff about Now.

Speaker 1 (13:16):
I remember the first time you recommended The Devil's Backbone
as an episode for us. My first thought was fantastic,
it's not Crimson Peak, and then my second thought was
I never heard of it, So, you know, assuming that
maybe there's a couple other people that are not as

(13:38):
obsessive and loving of del Tour as you, are can
you give us a brief synopsis about the Devil's Backbone.

Speaker 2 (13:48):
So, after Carlos, a twelve year old whose father has
died in the Spanish Civil War, arrives at an ominous
boy's orphanage, he discovers the school is haunted and has
many dark secrets which he must uncover.

Speaker 1 (14:03):
Right to the point.

Speaker 3 (14:04):
Uh, this is also.

Speaker 2 (14:08):
The brother movie to Pans Labyrinth. This is you the
male and Pan Labyrinth is a female.

Speaker 1 (14:15):
Quit looking at my notes I had, I had a
nice soul. I'm looking down.

Speaker 3 (14:24):
I was like, we it, I got this.

Speaker 1 (14:28):
Yeah, a little little inside of the film's background. Ambers like, yeah,
I was. I was a production assistant. What do you
want to know? I was all I was all excited.
Where the what the hell was I thinking that I
was gonna wow you with some kind of fact. You know, Hey, Amber,
did you know that this is considered a Yeah, you say, yeah,

(14:54):
this is this is the You know, if Devil's Backbone
is the brother to Pan's Labyrinth, Pans Labyrinth is the
sister the Devil's Backbone. Now, I thought that was a
pretty cool fact to share later on, but yeah, nothing
to get by you. I yeah, let's just yeah, I
think this one's gonna be a little bit different anyways.

(15:16):
Uhlsponazzo del Diablo, The Devil's Backbone Amber uh highly rated
film across sites like Internet Movie Database, Metacritic, Rotten Tomatoes, Letterboxed.
Highly reviewed film with critics. Roger Ebert gave it three

(15:37):
out of four stars. Aren't No, And you know, I
like that this fun thing, like sometimes if you just
Google a movie title, then there's like the sub Google questions,
like like the most asked questions. And I don't know
if you've ever picked up on this. People like the
people also ask segment Yes, it's always is insert film

(16:01):
title a good movie? And I had to look. I
was like, what are people thinking? And I hit the
little drop down box. Is the Devil's Backbone a good movie?
And then it says here the Devil's Backbone is a
mesmerizing and inventive addition to the ghost story tradition. The
film moves slowly, but that is a definite advantage to it.

(16:23):
The slow pace allows us to get to know and
even care for the characters before the horror starts, and
this makes the horror all the more potent when it
does start. Now I read that. I see what Ebert's
talking about. I hear you talking about it. I go

(16:46):
watch the movie and shocking plot twist. Amber, What am
I missing? Because literally this film did put me to sleep.
And the only thing, the only thing remotely scary is
it's run time of one hundred eight minutes. What you're
the voice of reason, you know, help me out, teach me, Amber?
What what what's going on?

Speaker 2 (17:06):
Like?

Speaker 1 (17:07):
Why why did I get it?

Speaker 3 (17:10):
I don't help me.

Speaker 2 (17:12):
I don't know where you put off By the fact
that it's Spanish language that puts a lot of people off.
I think that's why it's well not as well known.

Speaker 1 (17:21):
Okay, so nine times out of ten you give me
a move. You know, a foreign film, you know, I've
got subtitles. I'm reading it. It will not bother me. However,
with it being a horror film, you know, you're you
should be focused on what's in the room, what's what's
about to jump out? Right? And when you're busy, when
my eyes are busy at the bottom of the screen

(17:43):
trying to read everything, and it's a little fast, like
some of the dialogs fast paced, So I'm trying to
read and keep up and I'm not, and I'm missing.
I feel maybe i'm missing, like I was, like literally
missing some of the footage because I'm too busy reading.
Because you know that I had the option you either
you either watch it with subtitles or you can have
you know, it can be dubbed, and I just can't

(18:06):
do that. I can't do the dubbed version of stuff.
I don't know about you. No, I think it takes away.

Speaker 2 (18:11):
In a language, then you need to hear it in
that language, even if you don't understand well.

Speaker 1 (18:16):
And that's that's just it. Like I feel like if
I'm hearing someone else's voice, it's taking away from the
performance of the actor that I'm watching. Yes, so I
have to have the subtitles. I have to, you know,
So I don't know. I'm not going to say that
that's the main reason. That's the thing that took me.

Speaker 3 (18:32):
But I do agree with you.

Speaker 2 (18:34):
I've seen this movie so many times, Like it's scared
the pants off me the first time I saw it,
but it's not really scary anymore. But I don't have
to read the subtitles like word for word because I
pretty much know what's going on, So I'm able to
just sort of relax and enjoy the visuals. Yeah, and

(18:57):
check in with the dialogue, you know, kind of every
now and then.

Speaker 3 (19:01):
So you know, maybe that's why I have a different experience.

Speaker 2 (19:06):
Yeah, and you know watching it because there are scenes
that are like legit scary.

Speaker 1 (19:12):
Okay, we're gonna get to them, you know.

Speaker 3 (19:13):
Well, I mean unless you don't think ghosts are scary,
maybe that's maybe ghosts don't scare you.

Speaker 1 (19:19):
Well, you know, I ghosts are scary, like Poulter guys
still is scary. You know, the Conjuring movies. I think
those are scary as hell. Sinister if you ever saw
Sinister with Ethan Hawk, that that is scary as shit.
Like it's ghosts are scary. And here's the thing, I
think ghosts are more scary than any like six foot

(19:40):
tall maniac with a hatchet or a chainsaw, because at
least with those guys, I might I'm probably gonna lose.
But those guys, i's gonna say.

Speaker 3 (19:48):
You're a boy though, it's those are scarier for girls.

Speaker 1 (19:51):
Yeah, well I can. I can fight Jason Vorhees, right,
I can. I can. I can throw a chair at
Michael Myers. You know some thing that you know, when
ship's flying around the room or the walls are bleeding.
I can't. I can't punch. I can't punch that. You know,
that's scary ass none you know from the Conjuring universe.
I can't punch her in the face. I'm scared of her.

(20:14):
I won't watch that movie by myself, Ambro, don't. I'll
admit it. That's fine. Yeah, so ghosts are scary, it's not.
I don't know. I just I'm hoping that you'll, you know,
maybe this episode will be more of a low key exorcism.
You'll you'll, you'll heal me, you'll find the way to
bring it, bring me to light, and not then be like, oh,

(20:35):
I didn't, I didn't look at it the movie like that.
We'll find out. But before we before we talk cast
and crew, let's let's take a quick break, and then
we'll get back to the Devil's Backbone. All right, uh, Amber,
we are back. We're talking about your guy, Gilmel del

(20:56):
Toro and his uh, his guy the ghost story. That's
not Crimson Peak, It's it's the Devil's backboon. I'm gonna
ask you because I know my answer is already blank. Slate.
There's some great acting in this film, yes, but I
have I don't recognize a single person. So I wanna,

(21:20):
I wanna. You know, I'm gonna kind of put you
in the driver's seat here and and and let's talk
about some of these these characters. So let's talk about
some of these actors. Who are we talking about?

Speaker 2 (21:31):
Well, the one that I did have, I had kind
of a leg up on the story the first time
I saw it because EDWARDO Noriega, who plays Jacinto, was
in I'll Break Those Open your Eyes, which is the
Spanish version.

Speaker 3 (21:51):
Of Vanilla Sky.

Speaker 1 (21:53):
I love Vanilla Sky.

Speaker 2 (21:54):
Okay, well Vanilla Skuy sucks. I Break Those is really good.
And this guy played such a jackass in that movie,
Like I hated him in that movie.

Speaker 3 (22:04):
But you're supposed to, you know, so you shun up.

Speaker 2 (22:06):
And I was like, eh, this guy which you're not
supposed to when you first see him.

Speaker 3 (22:10):
You're supposed to be like, well hello.

Speaker 1 (22:12):
Yeah, taker yeah.

Speaker 2 (22:16):
So the big reveal for me was like, well, all right,
saw that one coming because.

Speaker 1 (22:20):
He's a joke, total total misdirection because uh, Jacinto, I'm like, hey,
what's up? Spanish Eli Roth, Like this is like, is
this the hero? Is this? This is the hard working guy.
He's got the beautiful, the beautiful bride. Okay, now the
guy's a dick.

Speaker 3 (22:39):
Yeah he's the worst.

Speaker 1 (22:40):
He is the worst worst. Yeah. Uh, how about can't
tell you who? I like? He like my go to
one one person. I really enjoyed. Uh, Federico Loopi he plays?

Speaker 3 (22:53):
Does he not give off like Christopher Lee vibes?

Speaker 1 (22:56):
He does? I think that I was digging him.

Speaker 3 (23:00):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (23:01):
So allegedly his his character was heavily based off of
one of del Toro's uncles, who Del Toro claims came
back as a ghost. And if you you know, if
you buy into that, then you're like, yeah, this guy
doctor Cassaris. Uh, I don't know. I did. I did

(23:23):
like his character a lot. I like the whole book
and the the you know, the book endings, you know,
with like the what what's a ghost like him? Kind
of giving us that narration in the beginning. And that's
and truthfully at the beginning when we're getting this weird
like what am I looking at? Am I underwater? Am
I not underwater? Is? What is? I think that? I
know what that is? That looks like a corpse, but

(23:44):
I'm not sure. And you've got this, you know, like
this world's most interesting man kind of narration about what
is a ghost and kind of like it's almost like
a philosophy course. And I'm in at that point, like
and and I'm in because of doctor Cassaris and his character.
So really enjoyed him, really did.

Speaker 3 (24:07):
Yeah, yeah, for sure. I also just love the kids.

Speaker 1 (24:12):
I'm surprised, Uh the kid. Well, our main, our main,
our lead, Carlos, Yes, Fernando, Uh, maybe I do French.
That's right, that's all. That's right. You're you're you're the
expert on French pronunciation.

Speaker 2 (24:32):
We'll disapologize in advance for saying their name is wrong.

Speaker 1 (24:37):
I expected him. This movie comes out in two thousand
and one, and obviously he's an adult. Now. I just
would have figured he would have been like one of
those breakout stars that you know, we saw him in
some some some foreign films and then he, you know,
like Quentin Tarantino or someone like that, cast him in
a in a movie and then all of a sudden,

(24:57):
he's like he's Hollywood's new it guy. You know. Yeah,
he's fantastic, he really is.

Speaker 2 (25:04):
Yeah, he's amazing. He I just I love him so much.
I love his character. Germa de Tourre has a way
of getting performances out of children that are just spectacular.

Speaker 1 (25:18):
It's one of those situations where these kids their orphans.
We're in an orphanage, right, this is during the it
was like the nineteen thirties, late thirties, the Spanish Spanish Civil.

Speaker 3 (25:29):
War, right before World War two.

Speaker 1 (25:32):
Yeah, and these kids, at no point do they actually
have conversations that children would have, with exception to Carlos
kind of sharing, like he's new to the orphans orphanage,
and he's sharing like I got some comic books, I
got some toys, you know, and the other the other
boys are like, oh cool, let's let's check this out.
But other than that, their conversations are very adult, and

(25:56):
normally that would that would bother me to some degree.
But then again, these kids, their whole life is like war, hunger, misery.
I mean the what the.

Speaker 2 (26:09):
Night when they sneak out of bed and they're going
through all of Carlos's comic books and toys and stuff,
like they're talking about like this's worst.

Speaker 3 (26:18):
Never gonna end. Yeah, it's you know, like conversations like
that that we don't have.

Speaker 1 (26:24):
Yeah, this is this isn't Bart and Nelson in the treehouse.
You know, they're they're having like adult conversations, and typically
that would that would dissuade me a little bit, you know,
because I'm not talking like that when I'm eleven years old.
But then again, I wasn't in an orphanage.

Speaker 3 (26:41):
Yeah, d bikes and like.

Speaker 1 (26:44):
Building forts and planet. Yeah, absolutely, it's just the place
is miserable, like and I don't mean that in a
derogatory way. It's supposed to be miserable, but even like
would you call her like the head mistress or talking
about the.

Speaker 2 (26:58):
Car Carmen and and doctor Kassaris kind of run this
place together. Yeah, but she's got like a tenderness towards
the boys too that if you think she's just gonna
be when she's telling him like, this is your bar
of soap passed the last few a year, don't lose,
don't lose, you know, and you think she's gonna be mean,

(27:18):
but then like you see your smile when they're playing,
and you know she appreciates them and she's doing an
awful lot of work to keep them alive. While their
parents are off fighting this war.

Speaker 1 (27:30):
She's put upon. I won't disagree with that, and you're right,
I guess she softens here and there like I do.
Like when he first shows up and she's taken him
to bed tim Er twelve, you know, she's like, and
you know, here's your soap. But it does feel like
you're watching a prison movie. At least that's what I'm thinking.
And then the line, you know, the character says the line,

(27:51):
this is not a prison. You know, you don't think
of it like that. I thought, Okay, well, and she.

Speaker 2 (27:58):
You know, when he's left there, it's a traumatic experience.
He doesn't know he's being dumped by Okay, this is
a whole misdirection that he goes through. And she sends
doctor Cassaris to like because she knows he's the one
that can meet him on his level and distract him

(28:18):
and make him feel better.

Speaker 1 (28:19):
Cassaris is gonna be like your Dumbledore or you're you're
Ben Kenobi from seventy seven Star Wars, Like he's he's
gonna take you in. You know, you come, he'll he'll
comfort you, He'll take under his wing. Yeah, but and listen,
we can go ahead and talk about this moment because
this is definitely not a notable moment or pivotal scene

(28:39):
or anything like that, but what a dick move like this?
You know, this kid shows up with his tutor and
the guy's like, yeah, wait outside, you know, play with
the kids, and you know, we're inside there, and I'm thinking, well,
this is a good guy. You know, he's been looking
after this kid. His dad is dead. He hasn't told
the kid that his dad is dead. So now we're
gonna have a very heartfelt moment and be like, listen,

(29:01):
you're here because you're you know, your father. Whatever. I
thought we're I thought that's where we're going. And then
this kid looks up and hey, wait, what's my suitcase
doing out there? And he's literally running with his suitcase
in hand after the car. Like this guy couldn't even
stop to say, he couldn't even lie to and be like, hey,
we'll be back in like a week, you know, just

(29:22):
dick move. Amber. Yeah. I was like, come on, man,
this kid's life isn't hard enough. You're just gonna you're
just gonna ghost him like that.

Speaker 3 (29:30):
I mean, he is, God help us. You're off track now, yep,
totally lost the thread.

Speaker 2 (29:47):
But yeah, I mean, I he's going back to the
front line. He's probably going to be killed himself, so
I'm a little empathetic.

Speaker 1 (29:54):
But yeah, I guess you could have.

Speaker 2 (29:57):
Been a little a little kinder to the child and
taken care of But this is like the world that
they're living.

Speaker 3 (30:04):
I mean, it's a harsh world. But I love the
way it's shot.

Speaker 2 (30:07):
I love looking at this orphanage and it's an interesting building,
and the colors are beautiful, and the way the walls
kind of are weeping, like they look like they're crying,
and there's a lot of interesting things there. And that
metaphor of that bomb in the courtyard is amazing.

Speaker 1 (30:28):
Oh, I love that.

Speaker 3 (30:30):
And it's always in the background of scenes.

Speaker 1 (30:33):
It's almost like a cat. Yes, it's it's a little foreboding.
I will say that. At first I thought this is
kind of cool. What's the story? Okay, not much of
a story. It's just there to set peace, but but
a cool one. Right, do you want to talk a
little bit about the I got a couple of things
about the film's background. You already know. You already know

(30:55):
them because you know because you Okay, well, let's let's
let's let's test chronology. Did you know that Del Toro
wrote this while he was in college? Of course you did.
I'm not even don't even pretend. I'll tell you what.
Let me just that lie, that's it. Just let me
just do this for our listeners. Who who uh who

(31:18):
don't know everything about FRO. Yeah, he did, so, he writes,
he writes this in college. This is a very intensive
laborer love for him. You you kind of mentioned that that
that some of his projects are very personal to him.
He was sixteen years in development on this. I do
know that he cites the Spanish comic series Paracuellos by

(31:40):
Carlos Jimenez as inspiration for the film. It was I
guess the comic is set. It's a night. It's like
an orphanage in the nineteen fifties, is a you're shaking
your head like of course, I know.

Speaker 2 (31:52):
I know that he said that, I don't know anything
about the I.

Speaker 1 (31:57):
Was waiting for you go, I've got I've got the
first three volumes of Paraquellos. What are you talking about now? Yeah?
But here's the cool thing. Though, he actually invited him
and as to do storyboards for the film. So he's
inspired by the comic and then it says, well, if
I'm gonna have storyboards, why not just have the guy
that you know did the did the comic as my

(32:19):
storyboard are. So I thought that was kind of cool. Yes,
very much. So I do know, like you mentioned Mimic
and listeners again, go go check Amber's in depth analysis
on Mimic. Check that episode out on docu Bayed seventy seven.
But apparently he had a little bit of a rift

(32:42):
the Weinstein's after Mimic and kind of went to a patch.
Like if you look at the filmography, his timeline, it's
a little spacey after after Mimic, you know, it's he's
not cranking movies out left and right. And you know,
he was under the impression that they were kind of
bad mouthing him around town and he couldn't anything, couldn't

(33:04):
get anything going. His good buddy Pedro Motivar, thank you
for the pronunciation. He stepped in, was like, hey, listen, man,
I think it was like the Miami Film Festival. They
bumped into each other and he was like, look, I'll
produce your next movie. Let's make something happen, and we
get the Devil's Backbone.

Speaker 2 (33:25):
The story that I love is that when they were
It's a Mode of Art and his brother run this
production company and German Datura met with them and he was,
you know, they're hashing out the deal or whatever, and
he starts talking very passionately about how like I have
to have final cut, like that is non negotiable, you know,

(33:49):
and on Motivar is like, what are you talking about,
and he's like, well, you know, final cut, like I
get a say in what it is shown in theaters
and in trailers and on video and blah blah blah,
and a motiverse like you're the director, Like why why
wouldn't you. I don't I don't understand, and like had

(34:10):
no clue that you know until Camera's like, well, let
me tell you about how working for Merrimax. But I
had no clue that that was that was some kind
of horror show that people were subjected to. And Garamudel's
hora was like, oh my god, I can breathe, I
can make that.

Speaker 3 (34:30):
I want to make.

Speaker 1 (34:31):
Well, let's talk. Let's talk about some noteworthy scenes, and
I'm again, let's let's put you in the driver's seat.
You you know this is your because again I'm I'm
not saying this is a bad movie. And don't get
me wrong, I'm not saying it's bad. I'm just I'm
not not feeling.

Speaker 3 (34:47):
Are you disappointed because you weren't scared?

Speaker 1 (34:50):
Or ah? Maybe okay, so maybe maybe I'm not scared.

Speaker 2 (34:54):
Maybe maybe it's this It's not a story like if
you watch The Changeling, you're watching a hunter House movie
that scares you, and the ghost is scary, and it's
all scary and it's all about the house and it's
all about the ghost. And this movie really has so
many more layers to it and really isn't about what

(35:15):
you think it is.

Speaker 1 (35:16):
Okay, so let's be fair and put and put this
out there for anyone. You know. I apologies if you
feel that it's a spoiler. The ghost is not the villain.
The ghost is.

Speaker 3 (35:28):
Not like this movie already kind of said that.

Speaker 1 (35:32):
So yeah, the movie, that's the movie. The movie has
a monster and it is not this ten year old
boy Santi. Yeah, so when he should when he pops
up here and there, Yeah, I'm like, okay, not scary
at all.

Speaker 2 (35:47):
Literally, See the first time I watched it, it was
scary because I didn't know anything going in. So the
thing about ghosts that that I think is scary is
you don't know what they want. You don't know why
they're there, and you can only imagine that they're like
pissed and want to hurt you, because why else would

(36:09):
you come back from the dead, Like it's got to
be something. So when the ghost first shows up, you know,
it's scary because he's appearing to Carlos and you don't
know like what's going to happen, what he wants? You know,
does he want to all these kids to join him?

Speaker 3 (36:28):
You know? And then his first communication with Carlos is
many of you will die?

Speaker 1 (36:32):
Yeah, many of you. Many of you will die.

Speaker 3 (36:34):
Okay, what does that mean?

Speaker 1 (36:38):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (36:38):
You know?

Speaker 1 (36:38):
Yeah, well yeah he's Sometimes a ghost is there in
a scary movie or a thriller to warn you or
to help you uncover like their horrible death or what
wronged them.

Speaker 3 (36:51):
And this is definitely in Del Toro's movies.

Speaker 1 (36:55):
Yes, Del Toro's ghosts. They might scare you, but they're
there to to help you. We know that, yes, But the.

Speaker 2 (37:04):
Scariest thing is, you know, as you start to unravel,
you know who the true villain is, and you're wondering, like,
you know, what's he gonna do?

Speaker 3 (37:15):
How far is this gonna go?

Speaker 1 (37:17):
Yeah, I just he's you know, he just isn't scared
like the villain of the Piece.

Speaker 3 (37:24):
I mean, it was a twenty year old movie, so
we could probably just go ahead.

Speaker 1 (37:27):
Yeah, the you know, the you know, the villain, the caretaker.
Why why should I be scared of a late twenties
good looking dude, you know, who has a hot wife.
I can't be I can't be scared of that. He's
out and he's what's gold.

Speaker 3 (37:45):
It's like, okay, well, I think at first it's more
your focus is on the ghost.

Speaker 2 (37:53):
Yeah, and you start to peel back these layers of
Jacento's character and you're seeing that, like, at first, you
thought he was this good looking guy and he's gonna
take his.

Speaker 3 (38:03):
Girlfriend and they're gonna run away and you know whatever.

Speaker 2 (38:06):
And then you start peeling back these layers and you're like,
oh no, he's a liar who just wants to steal
this gold, and you know, any's selfish and he's manipulating
everybody in this orphanage.

Speaker 3 (38:22):
So he's a horrible person.

Speaker 2 (38:23):
But you know, I think as the layers keep healing
and he gets more and more desperate for this gold,
that's when you start to see like he will do anything.

Speaker 3 (38:33):
I mean, I was waiting for it.

Speaker 2 (38:34):
I was like, is he gonna burn the whole building
down with the kids inside? Like he already said he
wanted to burn the Orphanage down.

Speaker 1 (38:41):
I think as we unravel, as we peel this thing,
I think, I think I'm starting to discover what it
is that's got me put off. I know I'm gonna
see a great film because it's written and directed by
Del Toro, and I know it's gonna look gorgeous. And
this film does this film, the cinematography is fantastic, this

(39:03):
like you mentioned this, this Orphanage. You know, I'd love
to know what the real story is because that clearly
is not a sound stage. That is something that they
found somewhere, right. But I think the movie struggles with
its identity because we've got this huge subplot about the
guy that you thought was good who's actually the chief villain,

(39:26):
and then his you know, bumbling stooges that that are
helping him, you know, the two or three guys that
are there too, and the whole thing is they've been
breaking this place, you know, piece by piece they've been
They've been searching this orphanage for the gold. Right, either
the Republican has the gold, Carmen the the head mistress,

(39:48):
she's got it tucked away. We don't know where it's at.
So it's kind of like this whole it's like a
heist movie that's hiding behind a ghost story. And I
feel like maybe the ghost story is taking too much
of a back seat to you know, the bad guy
is looking for the bars of gold. I think that
maybe that's what my problem is with it. I don't know.

Speaker 2 (40:10):
I don't know, because I think that the murder of
Santi is really what shows you how soulless just sentail is.

Speaker 1 (40:22):
Oh, and I agree with that, and that.

Speaker 2 (40:25):
He is capable of doing anything, and he just wants
hits all avarice, And you're seeing the worst of all
of the people around these children except for who you
know is in the orphanage.

Speaker 3 (40:42):
Everybody else is awful.

Speaker 2 (40:43):
Like you see these fascists kill catch a bunch of
Republicans and just murder them all.

Speaker 3 (40:49):
And there's you know, bombs being dropped on the orphanage. Yeah,
you know, and they just got lucky and it didn't
blow up.

Speaker 2 (40:58):
So everywhere they turn, you know, it's just danger and
people that you can't trust.

Speaker 1 (41:05):
And I don't disagree with.

Speaker 2 (41:08):
You, just a different movie than you thought it was
going to be, and you're like still reeling from this
isn't what I thought I was going to watch.

Speaker 1 (41:16):
Yeah, oh okay, so I wasn't. I don't think. Yeah,
you're right, I wasn't properly prepared because.

Speaker 2 (41:23):
You thought you were going to watch the Orphanage maybe
you know, or or the Changel like the others.

Speaker 1 (41:30):
Yeah, the other Yeah, the others comes out. It's it.
Think about that. The Others also came out in two
thousand and one, and we're going to talk about that
next season spoilert. I don't say anything else because we.

Speaker 3 (41:42):
I've already threatened your life that I have to be
on that episode.

Speaker 1 (41:44):
So you'll be you'll be on the other's episode. But
here's the thing. I think you're right, and and I'm
gonna I'm gonna put the blame on Prime. I don't
know if I can do that, but here's what. Here's
here's my case, Samber. Okay, something that bugs me about
Prime when you watch it, like, listen, I love that

(42:05):
they've got a big catalog and they've you know, Prime
is one of the one of the streamers I use
all the time.

Speaker 3 (42:10):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (42:12):
Thing that bugs the shit out of me is sometimes
you will pull up a movie on Prime and you
will click that little link to watch the trailer, and
you will see the trailer to the movie. And sometimes,
depending on what the film is, you will not see
the trailer. You will see a scene from the movie.

Speaker 3 (42:34):
So I never did that, so I don't know anything
about this.

Speaker 1 (42:39):
Yeah. So if you go to Prime right now, which
is where I watched it, and you hit the trailer button,
what you're gonna get is the scene where Carlos first
shows up, and it's it's the doctor and Carmen. Uh
it's that scene where they're up in the second floor

(43:00):
and they're looking out and there and the guy and
the doctor's like, hey, uh, IANA's back, and yeah, he
brought another kid and comments like we don't want another kid,
get scram you know, and we can't afford him, we
can't feed him. And it's that two minute scene and
it's boring as hell because you're like, wait, what are

(43:20):
we doing what's going on, and that's in.

Speaker 3 (43:22):
The context of the movie. It's an establishing, you know,
bit of exposition.

Speaker 2 (43:28):
That you need we do need in the movie for
like a trailer throw no, when.

Speaker 1 (43:32):
You click on it, let's watch.

Speaker 3 (43:34):
Especially when the ad for it on Prime.

Speaker 2 (43:38):
Like the cover picture is like almost exactly the same
one page as Insidious with like creepy kid with the
cilling eyes, you know that kind of thing, So that
if that's what she thought, you were turning on, Like.

Speaker 1 (43:54):
Yeah, there was you know, kind of a buyer beware.
Like I was like, wait, I bought cool creepy ghost
story in an orphanage, and I got, you know, historical
wartime heist movie for gold and there's a ten year
old and oh god pops up every Now you.

Speaker 2 (44:16):
Haven't watched Pans Labyrinth and we're gonna have to go
through this all again.

Speaker 1 (44:19):
No, I've seen Pants Labyrinth. I think it's brilliant. Yeah,
there's very few. Honestly, I haven't seen Kronos. I hadn't.
I hadn't as weird as shit, but it's really good.

Speaker 3 (44:30):
It's kind of gross, though.

Speaker 1 (44:32):
Yeah, I will say the bulk of his filmography I've
seen it, and I love it. Yeah, you know, I
mean this is our second Del Toro episode obviously. Yeah,
you know. If the guy's a hack, I'm like, we're
not doing that. Sorry, pick somebody else.

Speaker 2 (44:46):
I think this one like revisited again, I know, when
you're having a Delta marathon, and I think you'll appreciate
it more over time.

Speaker 1 (44:56):
By no means is this his weakest film. Not even
clo I will say that. I feel like, again, it's October,
the leaves are scattering, it's a little chilly outside, pumpkins,
It's time for scary movies. I could watch this again
in say December or March, or you know, the next

(45:18):
time I go. And I'll be honest, you know, I
could give it another shot. You know, I'll let my
memory fade a little bit on it and then go
into it going, hey, you are not about to watch
a scary movie.

Speaker 3 (45:32):
Yeah, it's like incidental. It could have been.

Speaker 2 (45:36):
It could have been that Santi wasn't dead and was
just hiding out in the basement.

Speaker 1 (45:39):
Yeah, Santy could have been like like, hey, the kid
ran away, But no, he hasn't, like Carlos's like, hey,
you know, because he again, Carlos just like he's not
afraid of He ain't afraid of the ghosts.

Speaker 3 (45:51):
I love that he's afraid.

Speaker 2 (45:54):
But he's in control of himself enough where he stands
up to Hymi when he's trying to bully him, you know.
And then he stands up to Santi and it has
enough control to say like, what do you want?

Speaker 3 (46:10):
And yeah, well and he runs off.

Speaker 1 (46:14):
He's in the basement. He's like, hey, do you live
down here? Like he's he's like Peter Vinkman. All of
a sudden, he's like, you know, yeah, he's just making
small talk. He's like being casual about it. So, yeah,
I don't know. I I yeah, I just have the
wrong frame of mind. I think I have the wrong
idea going into it.

Speaker 2 (46:31):
Well, there's so much that's beautiful in it that are
just little things, you know, that aren't really drawn attention to,
but they're just there and they're beautiful. Like You've got
this whole thing with Jacinto stealing this gold, and then
you've got this beautiful scene between him and Conchita where

(46:55):
he gives her the gold wrapper. Yeah, as a ring,
and it's fake gold, but it's more precious to her.

Speaker 1 (47:03):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (47:05):
I just I love those those things like it's beautiful.

Speaker 1 (47:10):
One more thing, since we're off the rails here, we're
not talking about scenes really, well, it's fine, it's fine.
It happens. I think. I think one more thing that
I have trouble with is I don't connect. I need
to connect to a character, like I want to be
along for the ride. I was looking for my avatar, right,
like who who am I in this movie? And I

(47:33):
was struggling because at first I was like, Caretakers, is
gonna be the hero? I want to I'm gonna follow
his story. And then you find out, No, he's a
piece of ship. He's awful, not gonna be that guy.
Uh you know, Oh, here's the you know, the older
kid him who is you know, he's kind of like
he's the tenured kid. He's he's like the leader of

(47:53):
the kids, right. And I was like, okay, well here's
he's he's he's leading the goonies, right, He's leading the
monster squad. He's a bully.

Speaker 2 (48:01):
He's got the best arc though, because he starts as
a bully and then grows throughout the movie to be
the hero.

Speaker 1 (48:08):
Yeah, he does, but I, I and.

Speaker 2 (48:10):
Carlos share that at the end. Did you love those boys?
Didn't you identify with those boys? I thought they were
so adorable, like when.

Speaker 3 (48:19):
They couldn't bonding over the comic books.

Speaker 1 (48:23):
And okay, comic books. Yeah, but the thing is, I can't.
I wasn't identifying with HEIMI I wanted to, and then
I couldn't because he's the bully and you.

Speaker 2 (48:32):
Know, yeah, but he's not always the bully, and when
you found out what happened to him, you can understand why.
I mean, bullies operate from a base of fear, and
he's terrified that he's going to get murdered by this
truth taker.

Speaker 1 (48:44):
You know, I'm too, I'm too deep into the movie.
Once I realized that, I'm like, all right, he's maybe
he doesn't suck as much, but I'm not with him.
And I I struggle identifying with Carlos because I have
never my life wanted to befriend the bully. I wanted
to kick the bully's ass, like that's what you do
to a boy? You beat him?

Speaker 3 (49:03):
Did I mean he did?

Speaker 1 (49:05):
He did?

Speaker 2 (49:05):
You were you were mad that he saved him from drowning.
You were like, let him sink.

Speaker 1 (49:09):
Oh, I want to let him sink, like I'm running.
I'm running the orphanage. Now, you know, things could have
been cool, but you bullied me, and I like said,
I'm fine with the bullying. Where it was like, hey,
I dare you to go sneak in and get the water?

Speaker 3 (49:26):
You know, wasn't that great though?

Speaker 2 (49:27):
And Carlos steps to him and he's like, well, why
don't we both go unless you're scared?

Speaker 1 (49:32):
Exactly. Okay, So I don't think it's a pivotal moment,
but I will say.

Speaker 3 (49:37):
It is a really good one.

Speaker 1 (49:38):
Now, okay, so two scenes. All right, we're you know what,
we're gonna throw out noteworthy scenes and pivotal moments. I'm
just gonna tell you. Yeah, there's two scenes where I
was like, I enjoyed it, and it was it was
Carlos standing up to the bully because you know, Jimi's like,
you know, you broke the water, you're gonna go get
you know you're sneaking out, you're doing it. And then

(50:00):
I liked how he challenged him, was like, well, yeah,
I will. I don't have a problem going. You can
come with me unless you're scared. So I did like
that moment for the two boys. I thought, Okay, This
is him not backing down from a bully. And I did,
like that, Can we talk about the what do they
call it? The water? This is the rum? No? No,

(50:24):
in the what was it called?

Speaker 3 (50:27):
I don't remember that part's kind of squeamish for me.

Speaker 1 (50:31):
Okay, So I break it down.

Speaker 2 (50:34):
So the doctor Casteris has these like canopic jars of
fetuses that have died from spinabefida, yes, and in there
they are preserved in this liquid that's got a rum based.

Speaker 1 (50:51):
To it, yeah, spices rum some others.

Speaker 2 (50:57):
And so he takes this into town and he bottles it.
He takes it into town and sells it as an
impotit secure. So these idiot villagers, and that's how they
get money to feed the kids of the orphanage.

Speaker 1 (51:11):
Now here's the thing, you know, because he turns the
jar around, you see the you see the spine, and
that's where we get the devil's idiot, because this is
it's called the devil's backbone. Yes, And I thought, okay,
here's the scene where he's he's kind of scaring. He's
being like that, he's doing the fun thing where like
you're the you're the uncle that is gonna tell us
a scary story to your nephew or niece. And I'm

(51:33):
really enjoying it. And he's because like this is the story.
I'm like, you know, he pulls the ladle out and
dips a little in and puts a little shot glass,
and I'm like okay, because the kid, you know, Carlos,
is like, hey, I've seen ghosts and here's the thing,
and and like it's like a lesson where he's like, well,
if you believe in ghosts and you'll believe in then
you believe. Yeah, you'll believe, you'll believe in supernatural things

(51:54):
and it cures illnesses. So here, if you believe in ghosts,
have a drink. And the kid's like, oh.

Speaker 3 (52:00):
When he ran out, that was so great.

Speaker 1 (52:02):
He runs right out, and I was like, okay, that
was a little morbid, you know, because it's basically you know,
poor Man's from auto Hyde. But I was like, oh,
that was fun. But then he takes the shot. He
drinks this stuff that has a you know, a corpse,
a fetus corpse in it. I'm like, oh, that's it's horrible.

(52:26):
If I did.

Speaker 2 (52:27):
If you had a woman that you really really wanted
to sleep with, then you couldn't.

Speaker 3 (52:31):
Maybe you would try anything.

Speaker 1 (52:32):
I'm not drinking. Uh, I'm drinking baby, I'm not drinking baby, baby, fetus, baby,
baby room. Yeah, corpse, corpse baby, rom.

Speaker 3 (52:44):
Not doing it, think about what might have been.

Speaker 1 (52:47):
Nope, not drinking that. No thanks, and let's uh, let's
wrap this up. And I am excited to hear your
answer here, because this is this is where we like
to say, hey, you got somebody. They just watched The
Devil's Back going for the first time. Their name was

(53:08):
not Jeff Johnson, so they're saying, hey, this movie.

Speaker 3 (53:12):
Was to us.

Speaker 2 (53:13):
Talk about it now they have a more realistic expectations.

Speaker 1 (53:17):
Yeah, but they see this movie and they they they
want more. Yiel Mel del Toro, what three films are you?
Amber Lewis, the voice of reason, going to suggest they
watch Okay, what's your first what's your first choice?

Speaker 3 (53:34):
I have two lists if you want them. I have
Liam's list.

Speaker 2 (53:38):
I have my list because Giambo does like comic book
stuff and then he does his own stuff.

Speaker 3 (53:45):
So I came home.

Speaker 1 (53:46):
There list listen, uh Cheaty Cheeterson from Cheaterville. You know,
I know I want the option that Hi, I'm Amber Lewis,
and these are three three movies that you should check out.
What you know I have. I have a thesis paper

(54:10):
I wrote on the filmography of him. I've got at
a time list. I you did, But I want your
choices now. No one else's You're not gonna Scott Hoffman
this answer with my answer. I have one answer broken
down into twenty six parts. No, we're not doing that.
Give me give me your.

Speaker 3 (54:27):
First power point.

Speaker 1 (54:28):
Already save it, he says, give me your first choice.

Speaker 2 (54:35):
My first choice is my absolute all time cannot be topped.
Favorite of his movies, The sister movie to this Movivie
Pans Labyrinth.

Speaker 1 (54:44):
What a weird and beautiful film.

Speaker 3 (54:49):
Oh my god, the Fawn.

Speaker 2 (54:52):
I love him so much. I love the Little Girl
so much. I love all of it. That movie, to
me is one of the perfect movies.

Speaker 1 (54:59):
Doug Jones, Let's let's be honest.

Speaker 4 (55:00):
Doug Jones is in practically every of Del Toro movies. Yes,
did you do you know the the film by Doug
Jones story?

Speaker 1 (55:11):
Can I share it real quick? Yes? Okay? So, our
wonderful friend Wayne Whited you know who, gives us the
breakdown on the on the score of the film scores
he's you know, one of the hosts of Phaser sets
the stun fantastic guy. Awesome, awesome Wayne, And I'm not

(55:31):
you know this is Wayne Wayne. Wayne will admit to this.
He is not the uh, he's not the guy that's
gonna be like, hey, give me a hug. You know,
he's not that guy, right, you know, Wayne Old, if
he sees you, if you're if you're a celebrity, Wayne's
gonna come up and be like, hey, I thought you
were a great in this movie and that movie, and
you know the this episode Star Trek, this episode of

(55:52):
Star Trek, and you know he's just gonna be cordial, right, yes, Uh,
Doug Jones. I want to say it was MotorCity Comic
a couple of years ago. Apparently Doug Jones is in
one or more Star Trek, you know show episodes that
he did. Right, Wayne's got this incredible Star Trek poster.
He's getting a sign and and apologies Wayne. You know,

(56:14):
I know you're listening. Maybe it was Doctor Who was
either Doctor Who or Star Trek, but Doug Jones is
in one or both of them. And Doug Jones who
is very friendly, very outgoing and very animated could not
wait to wrap his arms around up Wayne and give
him this big hug. And Wayne's just like, what's this happening? Now?

(56:40):
I'm gonna tell you something. Doug Jones knew Wayne for
a total of forty seven seconds and gave him this
big embrace. I've known Wayne for like thirty years. I've
never hugged him. Okay, So I know.

Speaker 2 (56:56):
I thought I was an introvert until I met Wayne,
and then.

Speaker 3 (56:59):
I was like, ahh.

Speaker 1 (57:03):
He's not Wayne uh Man, wonderful. He's the conversation on
the road. Wayne. He's hilarious too. He is absolutely hilarious.
But I'm just he came back and you know, he
just had this dazed look at his face, and We're like,
what what happened with Doug Jones. He's like he he
hugged me. We're like what, Yeah? But yeah the fawn. Yeah, Wayne,

(57:28):
Wayne got a big cuddly hug from the fawn. Okay,
can I give you my first pick?

Speaker 3 (57:34):
Yes?

Speaker 1 (57:35):
Two thousand and four. You already mentioned it, so I'm
jumping around with it.

Speaker 3 (57:38):
Hell boy, Oh that's Liam's favorite.

Speaker 1 (57:42):
There you go, Okay, I'll give you a chance. There.
Uh you talked about how he met Mike mcdola, you know,
the the guy that created hell Boy, right, And one
of my favorite stories is their step brother's moment where
they met for the first time to discuss their choice
for who the lead role should go to. And they

(58:04):
did one of those all right, let's just say one two, yeah,
one two, three, and they both said n at the
same time. And I'll be honest, like, I know they've
made I know a new hell Boy came out with
a different actor, no offense. I don't know if it's
any good because I haven't watched it, but it's because
Ron Perlman is hell Boy. He always will be hell Boy.

Speaker 2 (58:24):
I think Liam watched it and he said it was fine,
but he agrees like the Ron Peerlman is that character
and those both of he loves them.

Speaker 3 (58:34):
Both one and two.

Speaker 1 (58:35):
Yeah, I did. All the Golden Armies great too, but yeah.

Speaker 2 (58:38):
Enjoy the first. I haven't seen the second one, but
I did enjoy the first one. Liam like tied me down,
made me watch it, and I was like, oh, this
is good.

Speaker 1 (58:45):
It's like supernatural Indiana Jones, Let's fight Nazis and and
you know, I don't know, I love it. I could
do it. We could do a whole episode on Hellboy,
but we won't. We're gonna move on to your second pick,
which is Crimson Peak. My second pick, Crimson Peak.

Speaker 3 (59:05):
I've seen this movie so many times. I love that.
I mean, it was an easy end because it was Del.

Speaker 2 (59:10):
Toro, so I was already and already, and then you
had Tom Hddleston and I'm like, wow, I'm yeah, I.

Speaker 1 (59:18):
Will call this with you know, with all respect to
Devil's backbone, this is his best ghost story. Crimson Peak
is his best I think when it comes to ghost stories.

Speaker 2 (59:28):
Yes, yeah, okay, I agree, I agree.

Speaker 1 (59:32):
Go back listeners, go back. Check out our episode from
a few seasons ago, Brad cos and I you know,
that was our first Gielmo del Toro episode discussing Crimson Peak.
As you know, Amber, I would tell you please don't
listen to it because you're you're gonna be biased. You're
just gonna be like, no, I know, I know more

(59:52):
about Crimson Peak, and I hate this episode.

Speaker 3 (59:54):
I could have done that. They didn't.

Speaker 1 (59:56):
They didn't know me what they should have, because I
should have done this. One of these days when I
get bored, I start George lucasing some of our older episodes. Yes,
I'll I'll just interview you separately and then I'll weave
you into the episode.

Speaker 3 (01:00:07):
There we go.

Speaker 1 (01:00:09):
It was like I say it the whole time exactly. Now,
Crimson Peak is fantastic. Yeah, probably my favorite Tom Hillston
performance that isn't Loki. Ah, what'd you say? What do
you think?

Speaker 3 (01:00:22):
I really like the night Manager? So?

Speaker 1 (01:00:24):
Oh yeah, the night Managers. I talked about the Night
Manager on the Crimson Peak episode because Brad had never
seen it. Oh really, and I was like, dude, you've
got to watch the Night Man Yeah, Crimson Peak is fantastic.

Speaker 3 (01:00:36):
Yeah, it's so good.

Speaker 1 (01:00:37):
Okay, now we each got one more pick. And I
told you before we were off, Mike, I told you.
I was like, we're definitely going to connect on one,
but I can't wait to see what your other two are.
Now I didn't think. I didn't know if you had
Crimson Peak and your your bag of tricks. So what
is your third choice?

Speaker 3 (01:00:56):
Uh? The Academy Award winning the Shape.

Speaker 1 (01:00:59):
Of We Are Two for You Amber twenty seventeen, the
Shape of Water Best Picture winner at the I think
it was the ninetieth Academy Awards.

Speaker 2 (01:01:10):
Yeah, yeah, best Director, Like it's so good and I
love that. He says that his favorite like of the
classic monsters is Frankenstein and the Creature from the Black Logan. Yeah,
and so we got the Creature from the Black Coucan
and now we got Frankenstein coming up.

Speaker 1 (01:01:31):
Yeah. Yeah, the Shape of Water. Like I watched this,
I immediately couldnot wait to pop in Creature from the
Black Klagoon. Yes, it's a that's a great double feature.
Such a beautiful again, like like you like you talked
about with Pants Labyrinth. It's it's a beautiful film, but
it's so weird and so.

Speaker 3 (01:01:50):
Like it's a love story, but it's a love story.
I'm watching you.

Speaker 1 (01:01:54):
You should be mortified and grossed out by this love
story between this woman and this preacher, but you can't.
You know, like the Creature gives off like et vibes,
like you just want him to be okay, you wanted
to be sick, you know. Michael Shannon, who is an
absolutely amazing actor, right, yes, he's in the Shape of Water.

(01:02:18):
We're you know, we don't we don't. We don't like him,
you know, he's he's the he's the villain. Yeah, but
I hears something, He'll dig Michael Shannon, he should be
sitting in that audience at the Academy Awards. He was
actually at a bar in Chicago forgetting the name is

(01:02:40):
like an alehouse, and he's sitting there in the bar alone,
watching the Academy Awards on the TV. And the bartender,
who obviously is a sinophile, he's got the Academy Awards
on and not a ballgame or anything like that. He
recognizes Michael Shannon and he's freaking out. He's like, Michael
Shannon is sitting here watching the Academy Awards having a

(01:03:02):
drink by himself, and the guy waited until after the
show was over. The telecas you know, Michael Shannon watches
del Toro win Best Director, he watches the film get
Best Best Film, Best Picture, and then the guy said, hey, listen,
can it Can I take a photo? Post it to Twitter?
And Shan's like, yeah, it's cool, like that is that's awesome?

(01:03:25):
Like that's like yeah, I love stories like that. And
to your point, you you were talking about del Toro earlier,
at the top of the hour. You were talking about
him saying, Hey, I maybe I should have given up
you know when he had he had a miss here
and there. Uh, he did, in fact, with the Shape

(01:03:45):
of Water. He did an interview with National University of
Mexico Television and he stated that had The Shape of
Water been a box office bomb, he would have retired
from directing because it was a very deep personal story
for him and if it wouldn't have succeeded, he would
have been done. He would have quit. So nothing like

(01:04:06):
winning the Academy Award for Best Direction the Best Film to.

Speaker 3 (01:04:10):
Renalidate your your life choices.

Speaker 1 (01:04:13):
Yeah, yeah, you okay, so you said Frankenstein. Uh this Friday.

Speaker 3 (01:04:19):
Amber, Jeff, Oh my god, you've.

Speaker 1 (01:04:22):
You've seen the trailer. You've you've watched it probably a
dozen times.

Speaker 3 (01:04:25):
If this no, I don't want to see anything I saw.

Speaker 1 (01:04:28):
You haven't seen the trailer.

Speaker 3 (01:04:29):
I saw one like little teaser.

Speaker 2 (01:04:33):
Of like and it was just Oscar Isaac turning around
looking intensely.

Speaker 3 (01:04:37):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:04:39):
Speaking of sexy, Mi, a goth is also in Frankenstein.

Speaker 3 (01:04:44):
Yes, I saw. There's an ad for the movie.

Speaker 2 (01:04:50):
Tiffany and Company yep posted to Instagram because she wears
this elaborate diamond necklace in the film.

Speaker 1 (01:04:58):
I am so excited Franken's Stein is coming out to
select theaters this Friday before its debut on Netflix on
November the seventh, Amber, we got to watch that. We
might have we can we do a we might have
to do like a back to the box office on Frankenstein.
You know, do like a fun little maybe an extended one,

(01:05:18):
you know, if you're if we can sneak that in uh,
Oscar Isaac, Yeah, Oscar Isaac, Jacob a lordie. I love
when a tall, handsome actor decides that he's gonna be Frankenstein.

Speaker 2 (01:05:32):
On Oscar Isaac like cannot stop talking about him. He's like,
when you guys see Jacob Elordi, you're gonna blow your mind.

Speaker 1 (01:05:39):
Yeah, and let's not forget Christoph Waltz also showing that
this yeah Victorian era Frankenstein's story that the trailer looks incredible. Amber,
I can't believe you've got the willpower not to watch it.
But movies coming out this week, so uh, A little
fun fact about Frankenstein. Did you know that Jacob Elordi

(01:06:01):
was not the first choice. No, Andrew Garfield was in
fact cast in the role and had to drop out
at the last possible minute. He had some scheduling conflicts.
And here's the crazy thing. The FX team that's doing
the makeup, the Frankenstein makeup. They spent nine months creating

(01:06:25):
makeup for what the Andrew Garfield monster would look like,
and when he dropped out, they had several weeks to
start over from scratch and get it finished. For Jacob ELORDI,
Oh my gosh, talk about working around the clock pressure. Yeah,
because I don't know, you haven't seen anything, Okay, I

(01:06:47):
won't spoil it, no, but.

Speaker 2 (01:06:49):
I you know, Gama Deltara started doing special effects makeup,
so the bar has to be set.

Speaker 3 (01:06:57):
So high because he knows everything there is to know
about it.

Speaker 1 (01:07:01):
And as you mentioned, Frankenstein one of.

Speaker 3 (01:07:03):
His very stories vision. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:07:07):
Yeah, all right, Amber, here's where we we we have
the fork in the road. Let's let's talk about the recommendation.
Your recommendation for The Devil's Backbone.

Speaker 2 (01:07:20):
I think if you enjoy any of Germo del Torre's movies,
you should watch this one. But don't expect, you know, Ghostbusters,
because it's not it's deeper.

Speaker 3 (01:07:36):
It's got a richer story.

Speaker 1 (01:07:40):
Uh.

Speaker 3 (01:07:40):
And and be prepared to watch it a couple of times.

Speaker 1 (01:07:42):
All right, I'll tell you I will give it a
second chance at a later date, because it's del Toro
and because you are the voice of reason and you're you're, you're,
you're reasoning with me. But for for for my part
right now, I gotta say I need my horror to
have more ooze, less snooze. You know, this one's more

(01:08:10):
drowsy than dreadful, Amber, And that's I'm just I'm just
being honest.

Speaker 3 (01:08:15):
I mean, you know, everybody has their opinion.

Speaker 1 (01:08:18):
Yeah, listeners, what's your opinion of the Devil's backbone? Have
you seen this one? Is Amber Wright about this one?
More often than not?

Speaker 3 (01:08:27):
She is?

Speaker 1 (01:08:28):
We'll see You can let us know on social media.
You'll find us on Facebook, Instagram, and x. You can
check out the website to filmed by podcast dot com.
Everything we got is there links to the Patreon if
you're curious. Yes, weber if you want to hear, If
you want to hear a lot of exclusive content that

(01:08:49):
Amber Lewis has done, you know, from everything from like
the nineteen eighty six series to like you know, request episodes.
She's there. We're all there, yeah, and reminding you all
welcome or reach out to us. You can. Uh, you
can email us at a film by podcast at gmail

(01:09:11):
dot com. Uh, there's a link on the website, so
you can just go right there. Uh hit us up
on our website. We'll we'll definitely uh we'll hit you
right back. And if we share your questions, comment or concerns, uh, well,
we'll read on the show possibly and if we do,
we will definitely send you some a phone by swag.

(01:09:32):
We got the Amber. I'm sad to say that the
color changing stadium cups are in very limited supply. There
are must gone. Yeah, I've noticed you drinking out of yours.

Speaker 2 (01:09:45):
Uh yeah, yeah, it'll change the color of your margarita.

Speaker 1 (01:09:53):
The second you put that cup. Yeah, but uh yeah,
the the original logos on there, they're they're about gone.
But you know what, you email us, if we read
on the show, we'll we'll save you one. We'll send
you one. We got the stickers, we got the got
the new shirts.

Speaker 3 (01:10:07):
The shirts.

Speaker 1 (01:10:09):
One's like so soft, it's so snaffed and snappy. Yeah,
a secret. I'm like, hey, I changed the logo. Well,
you know, no one gives a shit about the logo.
They're all like, this is the softest shirt every and
it comes in purple. Yeah. Well it was a very
limited run, the limited limited edition game in special. Yeah

(01:10:30):
you got one. Well I got the gray one.

Speaker 3 (01:10:33):
There's purple on the gray one.

Speaker 1 (01:10:35):
Yeah. Yeah, that's good stuff. But uh, Amber, I do
want to thank you for recommending Gielmo del Toro. Uh.
He is without a doubt. I'm not gonna say he's
the master. He's one of the masters of horror, but
he is. He's one of the He's one of the
masters of monsters that you that you can't help but

(01:10:55):
fall for. Yes, we have just a few more episodes,
uh to uh to share with you this month, a
few more scary ones. Amber. I know you're not gonna
be back for any more of the scary stuff this month,
but I looked at the schedule for next month. No

(01:11:16):
days off for Amber Lewis, you know, like.

Speaker 3 (01:11:18):
You benched me all the fall, but then I'm in
my right back.

Speaker 1 (01:11:22):
You will be here every Monday in November and you're
hosting two, maybe maybe three episodes. Like you, you can
be pretty busy. I know, I don't know what I'm
gonna do with all my time off. Don't need me,
but to.

Speaker 3 (01:11:40):
Make me sound like I know what the hell I'm doing.

Speaker 1 (01:11:42):
You always know what you're doing. You got I listen.
You've got some great choices coming to our listeners in November.
I'm not gonna I'm not gonna spill what they are
right now. They'll just have to come back and check
it out.

Speaker 3 (01:11:53):
Yes, it's gonna be so much fun.

Speaker 1 (01:11:55):
There so at all of you out there listening to
the show, following us on social media, subscribing to our Patreon.
Let me thank you. M m m m

Speaker 2 (01:12:11):
H m hm