December 1, 2025 • 65 mins
We're kicking off the holiday season with Stanley Kubrick's final film, which also happens to be one of his strangest, and most divisive works. Brad Koszo makes a welcome return to the show to dive into the secrets, dangers, and erotic thrills of Eyes Wide Shut!
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Check out our NEW YouTube Channel and subscribe now! If you're one of the first 100 subscribers, you'll be entered to win a weekend pass for one of several comic cons happening in 2026!
Head over to our Patreon and get started with a FREE 7-day trial. We've got plenty of exclusive content and episodes that you'll only find there! You can also sign up as a free member!
www.afilmbypodcast.com/ for more information.
Email us at afilmbypodcast@gmail.com with your questions, comments, and requests.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Let me take you back to December eighth, twenty twenty.
We were finishing up our very first season with our
Richard Donner Scrooged episode, which opened with a conversation about
our top five non traditional Christmas movies. What about the
non traditional Christmas movies? You have? You started any of those?
Speaker 2 (00:22):
Okay, so what do you constitute as non traditional Christmas movies?
Speaker 1 (00:27):
There's certain movies that you want to watch a Christmas
time because they have a Christmas background, but they're not necessarily.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
About Christmas, if that makes sense.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
You know, a movie set against a Christmas backdrop, but
but not your typical holiday movie.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
Right that it makes sense?
Speaker 1 (00:43):
Do you have like a what would your top five be?
If you had that?
Speaker 2 (00:47):
My top five would in no real particular order. I
would say one that kind of gets overlooked and could
go for two different holidays is the original Black Christmas,
the original horror film. I think it's been remade like
two times, but the original Black Christmas definitely works. Another
(01:08):
one that works I think really well is Batman Returns.
Is it a Christmas movie? No, but like you said,
it takes place pretty much all during Christmas. You know
that Tim Burton loves Christmas. Obviously. There's a film that
is very underrated called Mixed Nuts. It's a film with
Steve Martin, Maddeline con Parker, Posey Rita Wilson, Adam Sandler.
(01:33):
This film in and a huge fantastic performance by leave Shreverer.
If you ever get a chance you see Mixed Nuts,
get check it out. Number two and I really looked
into it before I picked number two. Eyes Wide Shut.
The film does take place. Yes, the film, Eyes Wide
(01:54):
Shut takes place during Christmas weekend. It only takes place
during two nights, and it is Christmas time during that time.
Speaker 1 (02:02):
Well, I mean, if anything says Christmas to me, it's
weird kinky sex parties with people in masks. So yeah, sure,
what else?
Speaker 2 (02:10):
She gets the very so and number one and you
think you might know it? But die Hard two? I
like die Hard too. I think it's a fun movie.
It's a fun Christmas movie.
Speaker 1 (02:26):
Listeners, we've covered Black Christmas, Batman Returns, and Mixed Nuts.
Tonight we'll talk about a film by Stanley Kubrick, his
nineteen ninety nine underrated psychological erotic thriller Eyes Wide Shut. Hello, everybody,
(03:09):
I'm Jeff.
Speaker 2 (03:09):
Johnson and I'm Brad Kozo.
Speaker 1 (03:13):
The Ghost of Christmas Past. Brad Kozo, about three years
ago you went out for a pack of cigarettes and
you didn't come back. But you're back now.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
Yeah, daddy duty has gone to where at least can
be part time now.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
It is fantastic to have you back. Can we can
we go ahead and say that? Can we just can we?
Speaker 2 (03:35):
Oh?
Speaker 1 (03:35):
Yeah, you're not going Yeah, Brad Cozo back in the studio.
You can only imagine what we've got lined up for
next season. But before you know, we don't want to
put the sleigh before the reindeer. Brad, it's Christmas time.
I can't believe that. You know, season one your top
(03:56):
five movies for a non traditional Christmas movie, and all
these years later, we've we've practically covered every one of them. Uh,
the only one left is going to be die Hard Too.
After this episode.
Speaker 2 (04:09):
That's good. I I thought you did one of die
Hard too, But yeah, that actually sounds good.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
No, we you know, I guess we got to say.
We will say it for you, you know, when you're
ready for I.
Speaker 2 (04:20):
Definitely wanted to be a part of Diehard too.
Speaker 1 (04:23):
Let's talk about Stanley Kubrick. Brad, this is our second
Stanley Kubrick episode. You and I did the killing, That's right.
I want to say that that was a second season
way back then. Yeah, it was early on, very early on.
I I you you recommended that one. I'd never seen it,
and obviously, you know, listeners go back check out that episode. Uh.
(04:45):
I absolutely love the film. It's fantastic movie. But uh,
let's talk. We didn't we didn't do this back then, Brad,
but you know, the formats kind of changed over the years.
So how about let me hit you up with three
facts about Stanley Kubrick and a quote.
Speaker 2 (04:58):
Okay, Uh, what I can tell you is that, unfortunately,
as most people know, that Sanley Krubrick died four days
after delivering his final cut of this film to Warner Brothers.
Now Sydney Pollack did a little bit of the final touches,
but that was the cut that he got to deliver.
(05:20):
So one of the other facts is that it is
based on a novella, Trum Novelle by Arthur Schnitzler. Actually,
Kubrick optioned to do this about twenty eight years before I,
before it actually was even made. It just took him
that long, and that many projects and projects set aside
(05:42):
to actually get to it. And I'm sure everyone remembers,
I know I do. The once this movie was announced,
who was directing it, what it was going to be about,
the rumors that were circulating. I mean, and this is
pre chat you know, rooms and stuff, so you know,
but the rumors about this film of things things I
(06:05):
tell you what, things that were told that was going
to happen and never happened. Bill having sex with the
Mandy Corpse kid men and Cruise in the orgy sequence,
Cruz and lely Sobieski having sex in a gay love
scene with Cruse and another man. All of those rumors
were proven like not true. So I mean it's the
(06:29):
movie was not as shocking I think as they promoted it.
Speaker 1 (06:34):
I uh, our listeners are gonna be like Children of
Divorce getting to getting double Christmas. I was about to
give you three facts. I didn't realize that you had.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
Oh you paused. You paused, So I was like, I
guess that's me.
Speaker 1 (06:48):
Hey, you just you just shot three Stanley Kubrick facts
out off the off your hip. You know that's that's awesome, dude, Like,
uh but uh yeah, Okay, I'll give you. I'll give
you three now.
Speaker 2 (07:01):
Oh okay, I'm eager to get back into this, you know.
Speaker 1 (07:05):
Yeah, let's say you know, you know you got you
gotta get back in the saddle man. That was awesome.
I thought someone muted my mic. I was like, hey,
all right, three more facts, as it were. And I
dig the fact that you went all eyes wide shut
on your facts. So I'm gonna go, Stanley Kubrick, I'm
(07:26):
gonna go. I'm gonna cast a wider net. Every film
he made was adapted from a novel, with exception to
three films, Fear and Desire in nineteen fifty two, Killer's
Kiss in nineteen fifty five and two thousand and one,
A Space Odyssey in nineteen sixty eight. Now, for those
of you out there saying, hey wait, Arthur C. Clark
(07:48):
wrote the novel two thousand and one, let me remind
you that the film and the novel were created simultaneously,
with Kubrick and Clark collaborating. So, Brad, almost all of
his films involve a plan that goes horribly wrong.
Speaker 2 (08:08):
Oh yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (08:09):
I'll just say you're the Kubrick guy, right, You're when
it comes to and Scorsese, I think you're the guy
that can fact check this, like.
Speaker 2 (08:17):
So it was right around nineteen ninety eight or something
like that, when you know, I finally could afford my
first Yes DVD player, and I only had a few DVDs,
but one of the big things that I saw coming
out was this Stanley Kubrick DVD box set with basically
everything except Pasive Glory and the Killing and Spartacus. So
(08:40):
I bought this immediately because this is Dayton Johnson from
Doctor May seventy seven's fault too, because he was the
one that kept pushing me about two thousand and one,
and he gave me a copy to take home and
I watched it. He goes, you're not gonna like it,
but you're gonna want to come back to it, and
he was right. I didn't really care the first time,
but I kept coming back to it, and then I
(09:02):
got in this big Kubrick phase and I watched these
things religiously. Then I heard it that he died, and
then I was just like, and I think he died,
like even before that box set came out too, So
so I was ready for this movie and I was
I was in my Kubrick like phase. And everybody goes
(09:22):
through their their phases, you know, their led Zeppelin phase
or you know, or something like that, Like you go
through a phase, and mine was going through my Kubrick
phase leading up to this, you know, July nineteen ninety
nine date.
Speaker 1 (09:35):
Brad beginning with his film Lolita in nineteen sixty two.
Every one of his films has at least one scene
taking place in the bathroom. And when you think about
like the ones I'm thinking off at the top of
my head, nothing ever good happens in the bathroom. No,
like ever a little quote from Stanley he once said,
(09:59):
every thing has already been done, every story has been told,
every scene has been shot. It's our job to do
it one better.
Speaker 2 (10:08):
Mm hmm.
Speaker 1 (10:09):
This this from the guy who was notorious for like
hundreds of takes for his uh, his actors and actresses.
Speaker 2 (10:18):
You know. And some of that is true, and some
of that is you know, a little exaggerated. But I mean,
even though it is a kind of a not a huge,
you know, list of films that he made, every one
of them are stellar, you know, So he he really
(10:39):
was as but a lot of people considered one of
the great one of the or the greatest director of
all time, and it's it's hard to argue with that
he's at least in that top five.
Speaker 1 (10:50):
Absolutely all right, now, let's uh his His films are
known for their ambiguity, right, They're known for may forcing
the audience to question what am I watching? Or what
did I watch? Or what's my take on it? I
will challenge you, sir, can you give us a brief
(11:10):
synopsis for Eyes Wide Shot? And give for the listeners
that maybe haven't watched this one, or maybe for the
ones that have watched it like ten times and still question,
like what is going on? Can you give us the
Brad Kozo take?
Speaker 2 (11:26):
So I feel like this would have been the back
of the VHS box book. Doctor Bill Hartford is a wealthy,
well known doctor living in upscale New York City. He
has a beautiful wife, Alice, a seven year old daughter,
his own practice, and a list of high profile patients.
Just when Bill's life seemed to be picture perfect, a
night at a wealthy aristocrat's holiday party sends Bill on
(11:49):
a journey of sexual desires, fears, temptations, infidelity, and possibly murder.
Speaker 1 (11:56):
That would be a great couple of paragraphs on the
back of the Blu Ray. I think, yeah, Brat, let's
let's talk about the original trailer that came out. This
is This is Tom and Nicole melting the screen with
their sexuality. This is nineteen. I want to say it
was like late ninety eight when when we got the
first trailer. Maybe that or early to or early ninety nine. Yeah,
(12:20):
but we've got Chris Isaac's very playful, very dirty, very
naughty baby did a bad, bad thing song playing over
all these quick cuts, right, and it's just you can't
take your eyes off the screen.
Speaker 2 (12:35):
No. And it's the perfect song for it because it's
just baby. The way it's sanked into the trailer, it
is these people are doing things, these very very bad things.
And after rewatching the trailer again, I can sort of
see how those rumors got started. But it looked like
a Kubrick film. When I saw it, it felt like
(12:57):
a Kubrick film, Like I remember seeing the trailer be like, Okay,
it looks like his. You know, the way the lights are,
the low lighting lighting, the walking through the corridors with
the steady cam. I mean a lot of that is
just him. And I'm like, that's what I'm expecting, and
that's pretty much what I got. But yeah, the trailer
was I'd say, yeah, it said Cruise and Kimvin, but
(13:20):
the star was Kubrick.
Speaker 1 (13:22):
Well, you don't know what the hell the film is about,
but you can't wait to find out. I don't think,
you know, like the the only time I can think
of a trailer this good that tells you nothing but
but just get you so excited for the film would
probably be uh, paulp fiction that when that trailer came out.
Speaker 2 (13:43):
Yeah, because it was just kind of music.
Speaker 1 (13:45):
Yeah, yeah, I gotta ask you. Uh, I know, and
I know we're gonna get into a lot about this movie.
But but Tom and Nicole signed open ended contracts, specifically
agreeing to work on the project until Stanley could release
them from it, regardless of how long the project would take.
And keep in mind Mission Impossible to and practical Magic.
(14:08):
Their next features they get, they get basically they get
bumped like they can't do them because Kubrick is not ready.
And ultimately this production goes what four hundred days.
Speaker 2 (14:19):
Yeah, well it's a continuous shoot too, And I mean
I get it. The chance to work with the greatest
director you know of all time, you know, and he's
willing to like get personal with you, and he's gonna
be You're gonna be working with Stanley Kubrick and you
(14:40):
are met even have a relationship with him. Like I
can see it. You know why they did it, but
I also feel that it was probably very difficult after
the camera sep rolling, Oh, I have.
Speaker 1 (14:54):
To what I had to it. I mean, think about
how long they end up staying in the UK. Their
their children took on English accents after a while. I
remember there's a fun story h Vincent Dinafrio. Uh, you
know he we know him as Kingpin in the Marvel
universe now, but he once did a Kubrick movie. You
(15:16):
know he played uh, he played Laurence Leonard Lawrence right
Private Pile and in Full Metal Jacket. And uh, I
love the story I read where he found out that
they were doing a Kubrick film and his he said,
my advice, buy a house. You're not going anywhere for
a while, Brad. Let's take a quick break, and then
(15:39):
when we come back, we will we'll start talking about, uh,
this small but very impressive cast. Welcome back. We are
talking about Stanley Kubrick. And his psychological drama, his erotic thriller.
I don't know what you call this, Brad. It's Christmas movie?
Can we call it a non traditional Christmas movie?
Speaker 2 (16:01):
You did a non traditional Christmas movie? Yes?
Speaker 1 (16:03):
Yeah, talking about eyes Wade shut and uh, this this
this amazing cast. Tom Cruise as doctor Bill Harford. So
back when Kubrick is conceiving the film, he's looking at
Harrison Ford. That doesn't happen before Tom shows up. He's
(16:24):
looking at Johnny Depp. That would have been interesting.
Speaker 2 (16:27):
I think a little too young, you think, do you think.
Speaker 1 (16:32):
Ninety nine Depp is a little too young to play it?
Speaker 2 (16:34):
Maybe a little too young and a little too pretty
for the part.
Speaker 1 (16:39):
You know, you're saying he's too pretty. But meanwhile, Tom
Cruise does get the part.
Speaker 2 (16:44):
Brad Well, Tom Cruise. We just know, we know Tom Cruise,
you know, and this, I mean, it's like, you know,
before we all even I feel like I don't know
a time when we didn't have Tom Cruise, you know,
in our movies the ends, And I'll always say something
about his performance in this. The way he has to
(17:07):
play this part is really like no other. And this
is why I think he's great at it. He has
to play a character very unlikable, very lots of scenes
of being embarrassed, shameful. Huge. I mean, if somebody asked
me what is this movie about, I think I'd say insecurity,
and it was I mean as big as a movie
(17:28):
star that Tom Cruise is. Even as watching you know,
he's doing these things and I'm like, stop, stop, idiot,
it comes you know, it's like his character is not
very bright, he's not very good detective. He does not
cover his tracks, and so this is not the Tom
Cruise movie star we're used to. It's really seeing him
(17:52):
as a kind of a weak, vulnerable guy. And yeah,
that's why I think it's such a great performance. Because, yeah,
people that I think if you don't like Tom Cruise,
you will love this movie because he's kind of a
punching bag in the movie.
Speaker 1 (18:08):
I really think you're onto something here. Because Tom Cruise
himself was quoted as saying he didn't like playing this character,
but he did confess that he would have absolutely been
kicking himself if he hadn't done this project. He had
to do it. But you're right, this is this is
not the action hero Tom. This is not confident Tom
(18:30):
this is no. Yeah, how about that? What do you
all in all you're saying this is one of his
better performances in.
Speaker 2 (18:38):
Oh yeah, absolutely, you know, but like I said, this
is one of those I mean, I don't know, what
do you want to talk about? It was like, this
is one of those movies that was kind of scorned
when it first came out, and over the last you know,
twenty something years, has really kind of gotten, you know,
aged very well. It's part of pulp culture people. I'm
(18:59):
here people making jokes about it on other movies or
shows and stuff, and like, wow, more people have seen
this movie than I think. And you always see those lists,
you know, here's the underrated Tom Cruise performance you're missing,
Here's the Stanley Kubrick movie that has aged better than
all you know, so stuff like that, and it has
kind of picked up momentum.
Speaker 1 (19:20):
I think I think the reason behind that is when
this first comes out, I mean, the internet is in
its infancy. Yeah, there are no no there's no podcast,
there's no movie websites. It's not it's not really a
thing yet. So you go see a movie and maybe
you read an article in Entertainment Weekly from a critic.
(19:42):
But it's it's hard to understand why a movie is
considered great or why it's considered a flop, especially when
you don't have anyone to share your ideas with aside
from the people that you go see the movies with
at the time. And this was very divisive. You know,
this is a movie where the movie, even when you
watch it like your fifth time, you're still debating on
(20:05):
what actually happens at the end, what's going on in
this this secret society, this on this underworld, if you will.
And it's not until recent years where you've got like
subreddits on Reddit and you've got you know, people writing
full you know, uh like thesis papers on it and
(20:27):
and digging into all the little things that come with
a Kubrick film where you start to go, hey, wait,
I never thought about that. You know, all the conspiracy
theories start popping up, right, and there's some crazy ones
with this one, you know, kind of a kind of
The Shining, you know. We there's an amazing documentary on Netflix,
What Were Room two three seven that go just goes
(20:48):
off the charge, It just goes off the rails with
what The Shining was actually about. But I feel like
eyes Wide shut. Is in that realm where you think
that's not that good. I didn't didn't, I didn't make
it didn't make sense to me. Therefore I don't care
for it until you hear someone's theory or you hear
someone's take on it, and then all of a sudden
you're like, I have got to go back and watch
(21:09):
that film. I had no idea what was going on,
and that's.
Speaker 2 (21:13):
What Kubrick was very good at. That's why his films
need multiple viewings. I don't think any one of them
that I've sat down and watched for the first time
I loved immediately right away, you know. But it is
this itch that you keep coming back to, like this,
(21:34):
I gotta go back and watch. I didn't really care
if that, but there's something itching that I gotta find out.
And then you just keep going here. Let you start
to realize something each time. That's he was just always
ahead of the curve with everyone.
Speaker 1 (21:46):
Before we get too far away from that trailer. One
last thing about the trailer with that just perfect song
by Chris Isaac. Do you know how that song found
its way to the.
Speaker 2 (21:56):
Trailer that I don't know because I it wasn't made
for the soundtrack. Was it?
Speaker 1 (22:05):
It was not. But here here's the fun thing. Obviously,
Nicole Kidman has got to do a lot of a
graphic sexual acting in this film. There's a lot there's nudity,
you know, and this is something we're not used to
seeing with the Nicole Kibmen. So while they're on set
(22:27):
and she's doing like, you know, she's stripping out of
her slinky black dress at the beginning of the film,
and she's trying on lingerie and this and that to
help her get comfortable, Kuprick just said, hey, play whatever
music you like, just get into it, get into the mood,
you know, feel get loose a little bit. It was
baby did a bad, bad thing that she played a
(22:48):
lot to help her find her confidence and help her
get comfortable. On set, he fell in love with the
song and said that that song's gonna be in the marketing.
We got we gotta make that with the trailer, so
we got we got Nicole Kiben to think about that.
Nicole Kimmen playing the wife, the dutiful wife, Alice Harford,
she's Brett. She said, working with Kubrick was like attending
(23:10):
film school.
Speaker 2 (23:12):
Oh, I'm sure and so my wife waned through about
half of the movie last night, but before falling asleep,
but like she was, we did talk about actually a
little bit before the show, and like she's saying, she
owns the first quarter half of this movie.
Speaker 1 (23:28):
You know that's Nicole.
Speaker 2 (23:30):
Yeah, she just tears it up.
Speaker 1 (23:32):
You know.
Speaker 2 (23:33):
It feels like a lot is him and a lot
is him. But when she's when she's on, she's on.
Speaker 1 (23:40):
Could anyone else have played this role? And keep in mind,
like they're I mean, they're married at the time they
go into this film. You know, think back to ninety
eight ninety nine. They were Hollywood's power couple.
Speaker 2 (23:52):
Yeah, you know, they're America's sweethearts.
Speaker 1 (23:54):
America's sweethearts had done they've done a couple. You know
what at this point we had had what Far and
Away and Days of Thunder where work together, and you
know that we were just not expecting something as sexually
charged as this film. And she's mesmerizing. Yeah, he is
absolutely mesmerizing.
Speaker 2 (24:12):
She just liked was very I don't know, she just
seems so like she was always kind of toying with
him in his head, in her head, you know.
Speaker 1 (24:23):
Yeah, Well she's in control oh yeah, Oh yeah, I
knew how to be in control too. You know, the beginning,
they're getting ready for Ziggler's party. Even even when you
think this guy, this this predatory older guy who's dancing
with her for for like a for like a second,
you're a little concerned, you know, where is she a
little too drunk? Is she a little because she's kind
(24:44):
of hazy? And he's like, hey, let's go upstairs and
look at the private art gallery. Yeah, And for a
minute you're like, hey, be careful, Nicole. But then she
just snaps out of it, puts this guy in his place,
and then later you know, I know we'll get to this,
we'll get to the scenes. But just the way she
controls the I don't know if you want to call
it an argument, but the discussion after the party that
(25:07):
she has with Tom, she's never she's never not in
control of their of their relationship. I feel like in
the film, well you.
Speaker 2 (25:14):
Can tell the hungarian guy has never been told no.
He's he looks like he's very good at seduction and
so seeing her, and the thing is too, is that
he knows he can tell a little bit that she
kind of wants to go with him.
Speaker 1 (25:30):
Well, you know, you said the film, your take is
that the film is about insecurity. I would I would uh,
I would offer that the film is about the desire
and dare I say the deception of power? Mm? Hm.
And I think this is something that Nicole Kimmen does
(25:50):
expertly in this film with this performance, I'll tell you, uh,
maybe the surprising performance for me is uh is Sidney
Pollack direct.
Speaker 2 (26:00):
I love when Sidney Pollack. I love when he acts.
It's usually just a little bit, but when he acts,
he's so much fun to watch. So he's actually a
really good actor.
Speaker 1 (26:11):
So the only reason he's here, Harvey kaititel Is is
Victor Zeigler. And then after like the two hundredth take
of walking through a doorway or something like, Kit tells like,
all right, I'm out, I've had enough. He leaves, he quits,
and Sidney Pollack is you know, he shows up at
the eleventh hour to take on this role. And I
love the fact that, you know, the the billiard room
(26:33):
scene at the end of the movie, and I know
we'll talk about it. It takes an insanely long time
to shoot this thing, like a couple of weeks and Tom,
you know, had mentioned that, Hey, I think Sidney Pollack
showed up a little too prepared. He had he had notes,
you know, for Kubrick. So Kuber's like, okay, well we'll
(26:54):
do We'll do a different version each time and we'll
just see, like do you if okay, I get it
your Sidney Pollock, but do you show up to Kubrick's
film and give him some suggestions or give him some
thoughts or do you just show up and do the job?
Speaker 2 (27:09):
I mean, I would just show up and do the job.
But hey, you know, if he got the balls to
do that, go for it.
Speaker 1 (27:16):
How good is Sidney Pollack in this film?
Speaker 2 (27:19):
He's he's so good every time that he's in something.
Just like I said, he's only in it for a
little bit, but he always kind of makes the scenes
a little bit better. But the character that he was playing,
he had that look. I could I could believe that
he's playing that kind of guy. You know, he's he's
very much like it's okay, and you know it's like
(27:42):
we'll take care of it. We'll take care of it.
He's got it. He's got a tight power grab.
Speaker 1 (27:47):
Well, he's used like the like the hungarian guy who's
not used to being told no. Ziggler's just used to
not only getting his way, but when things don't go
his way, he's used to he immediately has a way
to sweep it under the rug. You know, like the
first time we meet Mandy, you know, Tom Tom's down there,
Tom Katton with the two young models, and then you know,
(28:07):
one of Ziggler's guy's like, hey, we need you upstairs.
You know, beautiful, beautiful woman, catatonic, she's odeed and he's there, like,
you know, in his tuxedo pants and his suspenders. He's like, ah, yay,
we things got a little messy here.
Speaker 2 (28:21):
You know what do you notice? It seems like this
isn't the He acts so natural, as like he's done
it again. I feel like he's the Ziggler has done
this kind of thing before, and he knows and I mean, Jesus,
the balls on this guy to be having a Christmas
party his wife and everything is downstairs and he's having
(28:43):
sex with this prostitute up and the bathroom or like
the bathroom right, you know, and stuff, and I'm like, man,
I'm like, he's just get through the night, you.
Speaker 1 (28:54):
Know, at least well, how about you're absolutely right. He's
done this multiple times, and just the coldness of his
demeanor where he's like, all right, she's uh, we go
ahead and get her out of here, right, And Tom's like,
I know, I think she needs you know, at least
an hour. He's like an hour, like, yeah, you did
(29:16):
a bad thing. You you don't want the naked hooker
to be hanging out upstairs and uh, your your your house,
you know, like I get it, but but but.
Speaker 2 (29:25):
It shows that his character is one of these many
sexually possessed you know, sex addicts that cannot say nos.
You know, yeah, they have to have it.
Speaker 1 (29:38):
This society, these these I mean, let's let's be honest.
You know, when you when you think about the party,
everyone that's there, you got to think the poorest guy
in the room is probably a multi millionaire. This is yeah,
this is society's like the one percenters, right, this is
the elite of the elite. Right. Yeah, I'm getting ahead
(29:59):
of myself, Brad. Let's let's talk a little bit about
the background, because I know you probably got got a
little bit about this, like you said, uh he he
optioned the Schnitzler's novella took a long time to to
get get around to doing it. But uh, you know
one thing I will add to your factoid. He actually
found this book while he was making Spartacus and it
(30:22):
was only because he was doing therapy with Kirk Douglas. Yeah,
because they were not getting along. I guess the book
was was there and you know what's this picks it
up and I think I'll make a movie about this
in a few decades. Uh. I gotta tell you, Kubrick
maybe crossing the line a little bit with his stars. Uh.
(30:47):
And I'm not talking about the contract, the insane contract.
To get them ready, he joined them in psychoanalysis sessions
where he had, you know, he had Tom and Nicole
confess their fears about relatelationships, about their real life marriage,
you know, divulging secrets. According to Nicole Kipman, it was
(31:08):
a very I'm quoting her, she says it was a
brutally honest and blurred line between themselves and their fictional characters.
And after they did these sessions, they made a vow
to each other to never reveal the details of what
they discussed.
Speaker 2 (31:26):
Right.
Speaker 1 (31:27):
I get you, I know you're Stanley Kubrick, but isn't
that going a little too far?
Speaker 2 (31:31):
He wanted to try something different. You know, it was risky,
time consuming, but I think he just wanted to see
what he could get out of it.
Speaker 1 (31:42):
You know.
Speaker 2 (31:43):
It's like how he's always been that kind of director
that's gonna go over the edge. If he's gonna do it,
then full on do it. I mean, you gotta think
that anybody that was a part of that crew now
looks back on that is like I got to spend
all this time working with Stanley Kubrick. At the time,
they probably hated it, but now looking back on it,
(32:04):
they wouldn't trade it for a second.
Speaker 1 (32:06):
I've got one more fun little fact about the production.
Speaker 2 (32:11):
And because you took all of mine, you already.
Speaker 1 (32:14):
Is there any anything else you want to add? Though?
Before I give you you got you got.
Speaker 2 (32:18):
The record for the longest shoot. Harrison Ford's first choice
for Bill Irby I tell and jenniferjason Oh yeah, Jennifer
Jason Lee was another one that had to quit.
Speaker 1 (32:27):
What about she was Jennifer Jason Lee. I didn't know
she was in this.
Speaker 2 (32:31):
Yeah, she was supposed to play the girl that her
father dies, mary Anne, mary Anne, and so yes, she
was supposed to play her, but I think it was
she had to start her next project. You know, I
can't say, you know, like Harvey Gotell was like, I
got other jobs.
Speaker 1 (32:51):
I have to do.
Speaker 2 (32:52):
I can't keep staying here.
Speaker 1 (32:54):
So she was like, oh, uh, four hundred day shoot
and you want to do six hundred takes of it. Yeah,
I'm good, Yeah, I'm moving on. Yeah. Brad. After he
finished his production and we've got like three or four
miles worth of film to edit, he several times watched
(33:14):
Basic Instinct, Fatal.
Speaker 2 (33:17):
And your favorite movie.
Speaker 1 (33:19):
Well it's not my favorite, but what but truly a
Jeff Johnson's favorite Showgirls. Uh, he's watching these films to
get an idea of how explicit the sex scenes can
be in the movie without getting the dreaded NC seventeen.
I mean, so, you know, I'll go to be honest,
(33:40):
the next time someone gives me shit for liking show Girls,
I'll remind them that one of the greatest cinematic minds
of our of our time, Stanley Kruber, also watching that show.
Let's you want to take a break and then we'll
talk some noteworthy scenes. Absolutely all right, okay, welcome back.
(34:04):
We are going to talk about a couple noteworthy scenes
and hopefully find our way to the pivotal moment. Brad,
Can we start with the discussion between Bill and Alice. Uh,
they get home from Ziggler's party, they smoke some pot.
Speaker 2 (34:24):
This is the next night? Is this? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (34:27):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (34:27):
So the party and then they have.
Speaker 1 (34:32):
She was like yeah, she because she's like, we should
we should call and thank him for the fun party.
But they're they're hanging out, you know, they get high,
they're getting a little frisky. And then Nicole, Uh, I
should say Alice gets a little aggressive. You know, let's
just say, hey, you know what this I think this
pot's making you a little aggressive, Alice.
Speaker 2 (34:53):
But she had bad weed.
Speaker 1 (34:55):
She had some bad weed there, I think. But this,
this is an incredible, incredible conversation they're having, and it's
all about jealousy and evolution, and you know she's because
you know she It starts off like, well, who are
there's two little.
Speaker 2 (35:11):
Yeah, they're getting they're kind of like getting off on
each other, telling each other about somebody else. You're like, oh,
it's about to get get crazy in here, all right, Yeah?
Speaker 1 (35:20):
And then who who is that guy you're dancing with Oh,
he's just someone, you know, and you know he's he's
he's kind of I mean, it's it's raw, you know,
he's kind of he's kissing on he's kind of groping her,
and he's like, oh, this guy wants to fuck my
wife and yeah, and he's like that's she gets yeah,
it's hot, and she gets upset. She's like, oh, so
no one, no one's gonna look at me unless they
want to fuck me. And and then he realizes he
(35:42):
has definitely taken a wrong turn.
Speaker 2 (35:44):
Here, and he keeps doing it.
Speaker 1 (35:48):
Yeah, just let her man. Yeah, but this is the
scene that sets this whole movie, you know, this odyssey,
this this night long odyssey that he goes on because
he's like, hey, you know, guys are guys, but girls
don't think like that. And then she destroys him with
(36:09):
this this story that's like, hey, you remember Kate Cod
last summer, that naval officer that we saw in the lobby,
couldn't stop thinking about him. I would have given up anything, you,
our daughter, our life, our marriage just to have him.
And she talks about this fantasy that she's got and
just cuts him down to pe you know, down to size.
(36:31):
I think it's such a powerful moment for her character.
Speaker 2 (36:34):
Yeah well, I mean you got to think about how
you're supposed to react to what she says. You can
be aggravated, you can be mad, but technically she didn't
do anything wrong. She just had some feelings, but still
pisses you off. And it's like, you know, and he's
(36:56):
seeing himself because you can tell when he left those
two models, he was like, that's girls. I can you know?
I can't you know? And he's like, I left those
two models. And she's telling me this story and it's
like she just toyed with him, I mean just annihilated him.
(37:18):
I mean his manhood, his like I said, to his
as ability as a lover, as a husband, as a father,
a provider. She just cut it all down and saying,
for one night with this dude, you know, giving it
to me, i'd I would, I would leave you guys
(37:38):
in a second. And it's like, what am I supposed
to say about that? I mean, he's just stuck because
you can't you can't be like, oh, you know, oh
she did this wrong, but she technically didn't do anything wrong.
Speaker 1 (37:54):
She takes okay, so she all she does. Her crime
is that she's honest with him, right, but I mean,
like a brain ninja, she has put this thought in
his head. And now we're inside Tom's head, or we're
inside Bill's head, because what's going to happen is obviously
he's going to imagine what she's talking about, and it's
(38:17):
going to be the rawest, most dirty, just most graphic thing.
And these were difficult scenes for her to film. You know,
when you watch this film and we're and we're in
Bill's mind thinking, you know, like what like the worst
possible thing. It's not the soft, beautiful, candlelit type of
(38:38):
love making. This is animalistic to a point. You know, this,
this this sailor is like he's taking her her underwear off,
he's stripping her, he's on top of her, he's all
he's all over her, and it's you know, I mean
imagine that, like you're Tom Cruise, You're one of the
most powerful guys in Hollywood, You're married to one of
the most beautiful stars some one of the most powerful
(39:01):
stars in Hollywood, and Nicole Kidman and and this is
this is a day at work. You're watching this guy
who's well like twenty four years old, just go to
town your wife like that could not be a good
work environment for two I just couldn't be, especially for
four hundred days. Man.
Speaker 2 (39:17):
Yeah, I mean he just he goes down the just
bad man verse that he shouldn't go down because in
his mind he thinks, well she would have so I could, right, yeah,
so I could.
Speaker 1 (39:35):
Well he's mad, right, he's right. He wants to get
even with something that she didn't even do, and within
within a twenty four hour period, he's what, He's kissed
two different women, you know, solicited to prostitute. He doesn't
go through with anything with the prostitute, but still, you know,
then he finds his way to the next scene. I
think we got to talk about, Brad. What is the password?
Speaker 2 (39:58):
Sir Fidelio?
Speaker 1 (40:00):
Is this not the party that you would absolutely love
to be at? Well?
Speaker 2 (40:06):
I don't know who it was that said it, but somebody, uh,
some reporter that's actually been to one of these types
of parties says that this is very tame the one
and eyes by shut compared to what the real one is.
I mean, this is something that I think, this is
a be careful what you wish for type of thing.
Speaker 1 (40:29):
This you know it's who is It's Nick Nightingale who
tells him like, hey, the blindfold, you know, wasn't that
tight in the things I saw, you can't imagine it's so,
you know, and I get this is the scene that
kind of sparks plenty of conspiracy theories online about what's
actually happening at these parties. And I don't know how
(40:52):
much you want to get into the theories.
Speaker 2 (40:54):
No, I just I mean I think it was. Yeah,
it was definitely over hyped of what was what was
going to be happening. I expected something like something like that,
but I mean.
Speaker 1 (41:08):
Well I'm not. I mean, I'm I mean, yeah, we
get it. There's a it's a there's a sexual orgy happening,
you know, all after all the pageantry, after all the
the ritual, you know, with the masks and the Yeah,
the music that I'm gonna say is scary as shit, Like, yeah,
that music, you know, I'm not even talking about the creepy,
(41:32):
deep voiced Latin or whatever that is going on. I'm
talking about that stinging piano, that one note that just
hits every now and then. This is horror film music
at its best. And it's not even a horror film.
But but maybe it is a horror film because you know,
one of the prevailing theories, Brad, is that this is
(41:54):
you know, we get it, it's a secret society, but
this is like your upper you know, like the elite
of the elite, the most power people in the world,
and this it's it's all about sex trafficking, you know,
but it's about the grooming of women at an early age.
Oh yeah, so, and I think there's a lot of
that going on, you know, And that's that's one of
(42:14):
the fun things about this movie. You said, you know,
this is one you go back, you watch it over
and over again, or you find yourself in uh, you know,
a subreddit on Reddit, or you find yourself, you know,
reading someone's thoughts and you're like, I never picked up
on that, you know.
Speaker 2 (42:28):
Yeah, I mean you got to sometimes fill in the
missing pieces with your own kind of assumption of what
happened next or in between, you know, type of thing.
Because you know, before he shows up, before he goes,
he had just went to see Domino and he got
bailed out, you know, saved by the bell. You know,
(42:50):
his wife calls him and he feels really guilty. He
was okay by them, but he figured, I'm still gonna
walk around. Okay, I'll go see my buddy, I'll hang
out with a guy. I'm mean, yeah, guy shot you
drink my manhood back. And then he tells me about
that and he gets hooked again. It's he just keeps
getting hooked when he needs to stop. It's like, we're
(43:12):
telling you this is a bad idea. You've been warned,
and he keeps doing it.
Speaker 1 (43:17):
Yeah. The Secret Society is doing their best to give
him every opportunity to just stay away, and he can't.
Speaker 2 (43:24):
Yeah, right, this ends, you know.
Speaker 1 (43:29):
Okay, So there's some stuff happening here, like think about this.
You know, he needs the costume right right, very specifically.
He needs a cloak with a hood and a mask
and a tuxedo. He goes to the the Rainbow Costume
Shop or whatever, and there's some weird shit happening there
with you know, Millich, the owner, and then his his
(43:53):
very young daughter, who is played by h Lely Sobiski. Brad, Yeah,
for teen year old le Lily Sobiski. And there's clearly
that you can't tell me that that's not some kind
of you know, child sex trafficking thing that's happening in
that shop. Oh yeah, with the Asian guys. But you know,
but she's been groomed. She's kind of into it. And
(44:16):
even when Tom, like like Tom shows up that weird
moment right where she whispers something in his ear.
Speaker 2 (44:24):
Yeah, and I always thought she said something really you know,
sexy or nasty or something. She said something about like
putting on this certain kind of like silk liner in
like with the with the tux eater or the cloak.
Speaker 1 (44:37):
You'll need an ermine lining your cloak. Now, kind of
odd that this costume shop just happens to have the
kind of a tire that you need for one of
these parties. But she clearly is has been around the block.
She knows about it because she's suggesting to him hermine,
so that, you know, because it's like a status symbol,
like you know, if people see this as the lining
(44:58):
of his cloak, they'll know that he's one of the
upper you know, upper the elite. You know, right, he'll
be along, right because he, like you said, he's a
terrible detective. He's yeah, you know, like Pollack says, you know, well,
you know, you showed up in a taxi, but a cab.
Rest of us are in Limos pal you know.
Speaker 2 (45:16):
And then I noticed last night watching it that he
doesn't put his mask onto. He's like all the way in,
like yeah, halfway into the building. I'm like, you need
to put that thing on before you knock got the door.
Speaker 1 (45:26):
Put the mask on in a taxi cab. Hey, I'm
going to this fun party and just hang out. Man,
here's here's a hundred bucks. He's awful at not giving
himself away.
Speaker 2 (45:36):
Well, I think is that if you put it in
Bill the married man with seven year old daughter's perspective,
He feel likes he's lost his youth. He feels like
maybe he's at his sexual peak. His wife isn't. He's
starting to think about other women. But when he goes
out this night, he sees how dangerous some of the
(45:57):
stuff that he desires is. Oh, you you want this
crazy sex stuff? This is how it is, you know,
the fourteen year old girl, the crazy cult. You know,
it's like, trust me, you're good where you are, be happy.
Speaker 1 (46:11):
With what you have. Yeah, well, ignorance is bliss right
like you you know. Uh, Ziggler tries to warn him,
like you I'm not gonna name names. You know, if
if you knew who's at that party. I'm not gonna
tell you who's at that party, but if you knew,
you'd he'd be scared, you'd you know, you'd be worried. Yeah,
and that you know that. I guess that kind of
(46:32):
brings us into the third scene that I think we
need to talk about. And if there's another scene that
you want to talk about after this, we we certainly will.
But it's that that moment where he confronts Ziggler, or
I should say Ziggler confronts sim and says, hey, I
know where you were. I know what's going on. And
he's still just trying badly trying to hide what he's
been up to, and Zick just like I was there, man,
(46:53):
I saw you. Yeah, Oh well gave me away and cruise.
Speaker 2 (46:57):
When he knows he's caught, he I mean, he literally
looks sick to his stomach, like he's that's always like
he looks so embarrassed. He doesn't know what to say,
and he like he got him. You know, it's like
he tried to put off I don't know what you're
talking about. No, you're a terrible liar.
Speaker 1 (47:17):
Man, Yeah, let's cut the bullshit, man like yeah, And
the look on Cruise's face where he's it's like he's
fighting the urge to just explode into tears in emotion,
but he's still trying to. He's smile and he's like, well,
I don't know what you're talking about me. Yeah, but
he's he's caught, you know, you know, but he can't
(47:37):
let it go. Even even though he knows he's caught,
he still has to know, like what is this all about?
Who are these people? And Ziggler is doing his best
to tell him who these people are and what they're
capable of doing. Yeah, especially if he doesn't back off
and just forget it right Yoh yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (47:55):
I mean he's trying to do his little you know,
Johnny detective thing. It's just like you said, he is
you have no idea, You have no idea how powerful,
how high about this goes you're And two, it's because
he's like wants to find out if they murdered that girl,
you know, Mandy, who was supposed to be There's a
(48:17):
lot of things that you sometimes don't know for sure.
This is one of those movies you don't know for sure.
Speaker 1 (48:24):
Like, was it her?
Speaker 2 (48:25):
He says, it's her, but was it her? Oh? And
uh well, oh real quick about the orgy scene, do
you know who does the voice of the man party
was about to say Mandy.
Speaker 1 (48:39):
I was just about to say, like, we we've got
three different actresses playing Mandy on purpose, and again it's
it's to kind of I think it's it's confusing us
and and Bill right, because we're Bill's our avatar or
we're along for the right with Bill and I remember
the first time, you know, you see Mandy, you get
(48:59):
a very good look at her head to toe in
the Ziggler's bathroom, and then the woman you know, she's
she has the mask and you're like it, you know,
not to be crude, Brad, but it could be her.
It could be that's not you know, I'm yeah, I'm
looking at another naked female body, but yeah, that's I
don't think that's her. I'm pretty sure.
Speaker 2 (49:20):
And it's like, yeah, and it's like I only saw
her for a very short amount of time. Yeah, it
seems like it's her, but it's a little different in
my head. Even when he looks at her on the
slab lab in the Morgue, it's kind of like that's
the only way he can identify her is to basically
stare at her naked body because that's what he saw
(49:42):
up front.
Speaker 1 (49:43):
And then meanwhile, the actress who play who plays the
the Mandy at the at the party, or I should
say at the Yeah, Amanda Curran. Uh So in real life,
she's got a tosh accent. Obviously, because they're in the
United Kingdom. Kubrick doesn't want that. He wants an American accent.
(50:05):
They find another actress who has a pretty good American
accent but also is not American. Who is that, Brad?
Speaker 2 (50:13):
It's Kate Blanchett.
Speaker 1 (50:14):
Kate Blanchett. And I'm telling you, man, like the first
couple of times you watch it, you're like, your brain
doesn't hear Kate Blanchette. Is You're looking at a naked
woman with a mask on, right, But then when you
when you know it's Kate Blanchett, it messes with you
because you're like, that is clearly, clearly Kate Kate Blanchette's voice. Yeah,
but that's is that Kate Blanchett? What's going on here?
(50:37):
You know? Yeah? I got these three scenes, Brad are
one of them. The pivotal moment of this film, or
do you have something that you feel is the pivotal
moment that that we haven't talked about.
Speaker 2 (50:48):
I think the pool table scene is because you see it. Yeah,
it's the confessional. It's everything on the table, and it's
you're not gonna win this one. You're not gonna in
this argument. A girl is dead and there's nothing that
you and I can do about it, he tells me.
He tells him it was fake, and like I said, like,
(51:11):
you don't know for sure, but you make your own
conclusion out of it. But he is basically saying, yeah,
it was fake, but if we really wanted to, oh yeah,
we could have killed her and just dumped her and
made it look very easy. You know, powerful people there,
probably worked for the newspaper. They can write it up
in them.
Speaker 1 (51:29):
Yeah. Yeah, it's I think what what Pollack is doing
in that scene, and I agree with you it's the
pivotal moment of the film. What he's doing is a
plausible deniability. Yeah, it was all in act. Yeah, when
she says she was, she'll redeem you. She'll she'll yeah
she did. We didn't kill her, she just you know,
got her brain left out, you know. It's Yeah, I
(51:50):
feel like he's basically didn't like say that she's fine.
But if we don't want her to be fine, she's
not gonna be fine. Like it's like I'm gonna be
We're gonna be scary, but we're also not gonna admit
to doing anything evil. That's how I took it.
Speaker 2 (52:04):
Yeah, absolutely, and like you said, to scare the ever
living shit out of you.
Speaker 1 (52:09):
Yeah, one uh one final, one, final moment that you
just didn't see coming. And it's it's that whole Chekhov's
gun thing right where we saw something at the beginning,
you know, or in the middle the mask. You know,
Millach is like, uh, where's the mask? You don't have
the mask? He's he's given the costume back. I must
(52:30):
have dropped it. I don't know, it's where's it at?
And the first first time you see this, you're like,
who gives it? It's a twenty dollars mask? No deal.
Until the end, the scary piano comes back. Nicole Kimmen
sound asleep and on his pillow lays the mask. Brad
she knows, Uh.
Speaker 2 (52:51):
I don't think she knows yet. What they that shows
is we can get right to your family. Yeah, you
have them ask we can get you, and you'll never
even see us coming. They were right next to his wife,
putting that there in his house.
Speaker 1 (53:07):
Okay, so your your thought is she okay thought here
she finds the mask. Okay, So either she finds the
mask puts it on the pillow as like more of
a we need to talk, or you're saying she's sun
asleep and these powerful men get in the house and
put the mask on the pillow.
Speaker 2 (53:27):
Oh yeah, that's right.
Speaker 1 (53:28):
And then he just gives himself up.
Speaker 2 (53:29):
Oh yeah, he gives himself out this base say we're
in danger, we could be in danger, and that's when
he yeah. It's like, oh yeah, you didn't think how
powerful we are. We just got right next to your wife,
and who knows if we wanted to, we can get
your daughter too, So shut your mouth.
Speaker 1 (53:45):
Okay, speaking speaking, we can get your daughter too. Another
theory I found online, I want I want the brad
Kozo take on this. Okay, the entire movie. Every time
we see the daughter Nicole Kidman, is you know, feeding her,
primping her, combing her hair, straightening her hair. She's always
like She's like grooming her to some extent. So there's
(54:08):
one theory out there that suggests that Nicole Kidman was
one of these brainwashed women in the colt, right, and
that she was given to you know, like Tom, you
know Bill, not like given, but like it's like, hey,
we're gonna let him meet this woman, and she cook
she can have a life. And then she it's almost
(54:29):
like hypnotizing her, like the creepy hungarian guy when they're dancing,
he's saying certain things and she's like, not drunk, but
maybe she's just getting like she's fallen back into like
the the brainwashing of this cult. Right. Yeah, So one
theory suggests that Nicole Kimmen was one of these women
who they allowed a life and now the price of silence,
(54:51):
the price of admission, is we're taking your daughter. And
I was like that, that's not right. That didn't happen.
But people online point out that the last scene, they're
in the toy store and there's two creepy guys that
were at the party, you know, like the one guy
that was falling on the street. They're in the toy store,
and the last time you see the little girl, she's
(55:13):
walking away with the two men, and then we cut
to tight shot on Nicole Kidman and Tom Cruise and
they're talking about how they move forward and what we're
going to do to get past this, and then the
movie ends. So does that hold any any water for you? Bread?
Speaker 2 (55:30):
What those people online said is so wrong and so
out of context. Okay, absolutely not. I think if anything,
maybe they are watching him. But no, she's just she
knew nothing about it. And I think I know why
(55:52):
that kind of started. Nicole Kimmen in recent years has
played very similar characters that have that are powerful, that
have a sexual past. Okay, So I feel like a
lot of that came like a couple of things that
she has done, like from a series of Netflix, you know,
Big Old Liars and all that stuff. It's a lot
(56:13):
of that is is very similar to those characters. But
I don't think she's a she was a part of
it at all.
Speaker 1 (56:19):
Okay. But and I'm not I'm not I'm not on
the side of the internet sleuth. But I'll point out
one thing, just playing Devil's Advocate here, when he did
when he gets home, Yeah, and she wakes up, you know,
she's like laughing, and then he wakes her up from
what she is all the night before nightmare, Yeah, the
night before, and she basically explains a very specific scene
(56:45):
that he just witnessed at the party, and it's all
about her having sex with hundreds of guys. She can't
keep track of how many guys. And when you put
that her dream, it's almost like is she was she
dreaming or was she was it a repressed memory from her,
like her youth, and like, you don't think so that's
(57:06):
not there.
Speaker 2 (57:07):
I just I feel like, so he comes home originally,
you know, from the you know, the from the party,
and I think he's got it, like, okay, I got
out of this one. Yeah that was just way over
my head. I'm out of my league, and it's said,
but she kind of just keeps pushing. She brings up
the naval officer again and all this stuff, and I'm like.
Speaker 1 (57:29):
Why do you.
Speaker 2 (57:31):
Can't this just be a hey, we got a little
too stoned and we argued, they don't take don't listen
to me, you know, It's like that's all they had
to do. But yeah, she just she picks at him again,
and then so there goes the thoughts.
Speaker 1 (57:47):
You know.
Speaker 2 (57:47):
The next day, he's buying Mandy you know, a piece
of cake and calling Mary you know, the girl that
tries to kiss him. So it's like he was, he
was out and then she just keep picking at me.
He's like, well, god damn it, I'm gonna go look
for some more more girls. He's gonna find a way
to get revenge on her somehow, Brad.
Speaker 1 (58:10):
Uh, I don't know. I I still I love this
film and I've seen it dozens of times. Yeah, and
I'm still not sure what actually is going on. Oh yeah, neither.
And I love the film for that, like you know,
because like I said, you know, like before the break,
I was talking about some of these these theories that
(58:32):
are out there, and some of them I kind of
I buy into some of it, right, but then you're like, no,
that's not what's going on. So I don't know where
to go in it.
Speaker 2 (58:40):
But it's fun to think them.
Speaker 1 (58:42):
Well, let's think about some other Kubrick stuff here. I
want to know and and listen, I'm not I'm not
gonna I'm not gonna get in the way with with
some of my picks because I've been doing this. Uh,
but this is Kubrick and this is Kocho. So Brad.
If someone was un familiar with Stanley Kubrick, they watch
Eyes Wide Shut and they are like, WHOA, I need
(59:08):
to see more of this guy's work, Brad, What three
films are you going to suggest they watch?
Speaker 2 (59:15):
Pasive Glory two thousand and one, Space Odyssey, and Doctor Strangelove.
I mean, first of all, every one of these films
is fantastic, but those three are so unique in their
own way. You know, a war drama, a space adventure
(59:35):
into the unknown, and then a comedy about nuclear war.
It's I mean, those are the those are your I'd
say the three to get your all right, know what
I'm getting into. And then once you see the whole filmography,
you know, and I mean I love everyone. I have
every one of them. I mean, and like you said,
(59:58):
you like this movie, I loves Maybe. I saw this
movie opening weekend, and when I saw it, there was
a lot of people uh giggling, laughing, hissing, not enjoying
this film because they thought they were going to see
a kind of Far and Away, the R rated version beautiful,
(01:00:18):
you know, and Tom is the hero and she's the
damsel in distress. And it wasn't that at all, you know,
I saw a lot of women going to the movie
together as being like, Oh, we're going to see this
sexy movie, and they're like, this isn't what we thought.
But I loved it when it came out, and because
it was it was very Kubrickian, you know, I was
(01:00:38):
like very Cubrician.
Speaker 1 (01:00:40):
Think about the word on the street was like before
we saw the movie, before word got out. You know, again,
this is this is very early years of the internet.
So you couldn't just watch a trailer over and over again.
Even if you watch this trailer, you don't know what
the hell's happening. But let's not forget early on people
assumed that Tom and Nicole were playing so psychiatrists that
(01:01:02):
liked to have indiscretions, we should say, with their patients
and then and then try to one up each other. Yeah,
that would have That would have been a weird movie.
Oh yeah, and I'm glad we didn't get that. I'm
glad we got we got what we got. But your list, Brad,
your three suggestions. If I could, I would remove Past
(01:01:23):
the Glory and I would insert one that you and
I saw together for the first time, a clockwork Orange,
because that film, man, I think it was the third
time I watched it where like just the light went
off or the light turned on in my brain and
was like, I get it. I know what this is
about it.
Speaker 2 (01:01:40):
Yeah, a masterclass once you. And that's the thing. It's
like he was just always ahead of the audience. And
that's what I can still put in one of his
movies and be like, get something new out of it
every time. Every time, you just have to do it,
like there's there's more there, There's more there. You gotta dig,
dig dig.
Speaker 1 (01:02:01):
This film deals in ambiguity, but I don't think there's
any ambiguity about how we feel about the film. We
both are recommending this one, right Brad, Oh yeah, yeah,
I gotta. I gotta believe that you own a copy.
Uh yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:02:16):
I have every Stanley Kubrick movie on physical media.
Speaker 1 (01:02:20):
I've got the Blu ray of this loaded with extras.
But Brad, we got a we got a Criterion four
K coming out. We we're gonna have to pick this up,
aren't we.
Speaker 2 (01:02:31):
Yeah. That's one of those that choice I would love
to have, but it's it's not on my absolute must
have right now. I mean, I think eventually all the
most of the films from Kubrick will eventually go to Criterion.
I mean The Killing and Pas the Glory that I have,
those are both Criterions. You know, I think Barry Lyndon's Criterion,
(01:02:53):
and uh, I think they'll all eventually get on that list.
But eventually, you know, I got the rest of my
life to get that, and that'll be one cool thing.
In like ten to fifteen years, it'll be like, all right,
the Criterion version of you know, Eyes Wide Shut. You
know it's a new experience.
Speaker 1 (01:03:09):
Well, Brad, I don't know about you, but uh, I
want to get I gotta I gotta get ready for
a party. I still have to go go fun, still
go out. I still have to find my cloak in
my hood. So, listeners, what do you think of Eyes
Wide Shut? Have you seen it? Is it a divisive
film for you? Is it a non traditional Christmas movie?
It is, Brad. There's Christmas lights and trees and music
(01:03:31):
all through the whole movie, So we're calling it Christmas movie.
But listeners, let us know. On social media. You'll find
us on YouTube, Facebook, Instagram, and x You can check
out a film by podcast dot com for all of
our articles, all of our reviews all of our episodes
that are streaming free. You can write to us at
a film by Podcast at gmail dot com with your questions,
(01:03:52):
comments and concerns. We may just read your response on
the show and send you some of and by swag. Brad,
I gotta say, man, Uh what a way to kick
off the month of December. Uh what a gift. Brad
Kozo returns, Yeah to a Film by Podcast and uh, man,
(01:04:13):
I know listen, I know for our Patreon members, this
is no surprise to our Patreon members. They got to
hear you. Uh last month you joined film at fifty.
You guys did uh Cuckoo's Nest, which was just brilliant,
and uh you got I know you got to you
go one or two other episodes happening in this this month.
But yeah, you gotta go back with those guys one
(01:04:34):
more time too, aren't you doing? Uh?
Speaker 2 (01:04:36):
I think we're doing three days of a condor. I'm
just yeah, waiting when they uh want to do it. Uh,
I'm game. I'm ready to watch it whenever. So yeah,
I and I love that movie too, so that that's
definitely one I want to do. But yeah, it's it's
good to be back and have you know, a couple
of years to re educate my brain in film too,
(01:04:57):
and I built up a lot of stuff I wanted
to talk about.
Speaker 1 (01:05:00):
So I was like, oh my god, hey, we're we're
we're wrapping up season season six here, so we're we're
still young. You've got you've got plenty of time, all
right to give those ideas out. So listeners to all
of you out there, following us on social media, subscribing
to our Patreon, subscribing to the YouTube channel, listening to
(01:05:23):
the show, we thank you. M m m m m
Let me take you back to December eighth, twenty twenty.
We were finishing up our very first season with our
Richard Donner Scrooged episode, which opened with a conversation about
our top five non traditional Christmas movies. What about the
non traditional Christmas movies? You have? You started any of those?
Speaker 2 (00:22):
Okay, so what do you constitute as non traditional Christmas movies?
Speaker 1 (00:27):
There's certain movies that you want to watch a Christmas
time because they have a Christmas background, but they're not necessarily.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
About Christmas, if that makes sense.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
You know, a movie set against a Christmas backdrop, but
but not your typical holiday movie.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
Right that it makes sense?
Speaker 1 (00:43):
Do you have like a what would your top five be?
If you had that?
Speaker 2 (00:47):
My top five would in no real particular order. I
would say one that kind of gets overlooked and could
go for two different holidays is the original Black Christmas,
the original horror film. I think it's been remade like
two times, but the original Black Christmas definitely works. Another
(01:08):
one that works I think really well is Batman Returns.
Is it a Christmas movie? No, but like you said,
it takes place pretty much all during Christmas. You know
that Tim Burton loves Christmas. Obviously. There's a film that
is very underrated called Mixed Nuts. It's a film with
Steve Martin, Maddeline con Parker, Posey Rita Wilson, Adam Sandler.
(01:33):
This film in and a huge fantastic performance by leave Shreverer.
If you ever get a chance you see Mixed Nuts,
get check it out. Number two and I really looked
into it before I picked number two. Eyes Wide Shut.
The film does take place. Yes, the film, Eyes Wide
(01:54):
Shut takes place during Christmas weekend. It only takes place
during two nights, and it is Christmas time during that time.
Speaker 1 (02:02):
Well, I mean, if anything says Christmas to me, it's
weird kinky sex parties with people in masks. So yeah, sure,
what else?
Speaker 2 (02:10):
She gets the very so and number one and you
think you might know it? But die Hard two? I
like die Hard too. I think it's a fun movie.
It's a fun Christmas movie.
Speaker 1 (02:26):
Listeners, we've covered Black Christmas, Batman Returns, and Mixed Nuts.
Tonight we'll talk about a film by Stanley Kubrick, his
nineteen ninety nine underrated psychological erotic thriller Eyes Wide Shut. Hello, everybody,
(03:09):
I'm Jeff.
Speaker 2 (03:09):
Johnson and I'm Brad Kozo.
Speaker 1 (03:13):
The Ghost of Christmas Past. Brad Kozo, about three years
ago you went out for a pack of cigarettes and
you didn't come back. But you're back now.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
Yeah, daddy duty has gone to where at least can
be part time now.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
It is fantastic to have you back. Can we can
we go ahead and say that? Can we just can we?
Speaker 2 (03:35):
Oh?
Speaker 1 (03:35):
Yeah, you're not going Yeah, Brad Cozo back in the studio.
You can only imagine what we've got lined up for
next season. But before you know, we don't want to
put the sleigh before the reindeer. Brad, it's Christmas time.
I can't believe that. You know, season one your top
(03:56):
five movies for a non traditional Christmas movie, and all
these years later, we've we've practically covered every one of them. Uh,
the only one left is going to be die Hard Too.
After this episode.
Speaker 2 (04:09):
That's good. I I thought you did one of die
Hard too, But yeah, that actually sounds good.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
No, we you know, I guess we got to say.
We will say it for you, you know, when you're
ready for I.
Speaker 2 (04:20):
Definitely wanted to be a part of Diehard too.
Speaker 1 (04:23):
Let's talk about Stanley Kubrick. Brad, this is our second
Stanley Kubrick episode. You and I did the killing, That's right.
I want to say that that was a second season
way back then. Yeah, it was early on, very early on.
I I you you recommended that one. I'd never seen it,
and obviously, you know, listeners go back check out that episode. Uh.
(04:45):
I absolutely love the film. It's fantastic movie. But uh,
let's talk. We didn't we didn't do this back then, Brad,
but you know, the formats kind of changed over the years.
So how about let me hit you up with three
facts about Stanley Kubrick and a quote.
Speaker 2 (04:58):
Okay, Uh, what I can tell you is that, unfortunately,
as most people know, that Sanley Krubrick died four days
after delivering his final cut of this film to Warner Brothers.
Now Sydney Pollack did a little bit of the final touches,
but that was the cut that he got to deliver.
(05:20):
So one of the other facts is that it is
based on a novella, Trum Novelle by Arthur Schnitzler. Actually,
Kubrick optioned to do this about twenty eight years before I,
before it actually was even made. It just took him
that long, and that many projects and projects set aside
(05:42):
to actually get to it. And I'm sure everyone remembers,
I know I do. The once this movie was announced,
who was directing it, what it was going to be about,
the rumors that were circulating. I mean, and this is
pre chat you know, rooms and stuff, so you know,
but the rumors about this film of things things I
(06:05):
tell you what, things that were told that was going
to happen and never happened. Bill having sex with the
Mandy Corpse kid men and Cruise in the orgy sequence,
Cruz and lely Sobieski having sex in a gay love
scene with Cruse and another man. All of those rumors
were proven like not true. So I mean it's the
(06:29):
movie was not as shocking I think as they promoted it.
Speaker 1 (06:34):
I uh, our listeners are gonna be like Children of
Divorce getting to getting double Christmas. I was about to
give you three facts. I didn't realize that you had.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
Oh you paused. You paused, So I was like, I
guess that's me.
Speaker 1 (06:48):
Hey, you just you just shot three Stanley Kubrick facts
out off the off your hip. You know that's that's awesome, dude, Like,
uh but uh yeah, Okay, I'll give you. I'll give
you three now.
Speaker 2 (07:01):
Oh okay, I'm eager to get back into this, you know.
Speaker 1 (07:05):
Yeah, let's say you know, you know you got you
gotta get back in the saddle man. That was awesome.
I thought someone muted my mic. I was like, hey,
all right, three more facts, as it were. And I
dig the fact that you went all eyes wide shut
on your facts. So I'm gonna go, Stanley Kubrick, I'm
(07:26):
gonna go. I'm gonna cast a wider net. Every film
he made was adapted from a novel, with exception to
three films, Fear and Desire in nineteen fifty two, Killer's
Kiss in nineteen fifty five and two thousand and one,
A Space Odyssey in nineteen sixty eight. Now, for those
of you out there saying, hey wait, Arthur C. Clark
(07:48):
wrote the novel two thousand and one, let me remind
you that the film and the novel were created simultaneously,
with Kubrick and Clark collaborating. So, Brad, almost all of
his films involve a plan that goes horribly wrong.
Speaker 2 (08:08):
Oh yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (08:09):
I'll just say you're the Kubrick guy, right, You're when
it comes to and Scorsese, I think you're the guy
that can fact check this, like.
Speaker 2 (08:17):
So it was right around nineteen ninety eight or something
like that, when you know, I finally could afford my
first Yes DVD player, and I only had a few DVDs,
but one of the big things that I saw coming
out was this Stanley Kubrick DVD box set with basically
everything except Pasive Glory and the Killing and Spartacus. So
(08:40):
I bought this immediately because this is Dayton Johnson from
Doctor May seventy seven's fault too, because he was the
one that kept pushing me about two thousand and one,
and he gave me a copy to take home and
I watched it. He goes, you're not gonna like it,
but you're gonna want to come back to it, and
he was right. I didn't really care the first time,
but I kept coming back to it, and then I
(09:02):
got in this big Kubrick phase and I watched these
things religiously. Then I heard it that he died, and
then I was just like, and I think he died,
like even before that box set came out too, So
so I was ready for this movie and I was
I was in my Kubrick like phase. And everybody goes
(09:22):
through their their phases, you know, their led Zeppelin phase
or you know, or something like that, Like you go
through a phase, and mine was going through my Kubrick
phase leading up to this, you know, July nineteen ninety
nine date.
Speaker 1 (09:35):
Brad beginning with his film Lolita in nineteen sixty two.
Every one of his films has at least one scene
taking place in the bathroom. And when you think about
like the ones I'm thinking off at the top of
my head, nothing ever good happens in the bathroom. No,
like ever a little quote from Stanley he once said,
(09:59):
every thing has already been done, every story has been told,
every scene has been shot. It's our job to do
it one better.
Speaker 2 (10:08):
Mm hmm.
Speaker 1 (10:09):
This this from the guy who was notorious for like
hundreds of takes for his uh, his actors and actresses.
Speaker 2 (10:18):
You know. And some of that is true, and some
of that is you know, a little exaggerated. But I mean,
even though it is a kind of a not a huge,
you know, list of films that he made, every one
of them are stellar, you know, So he he really
(10:39):
was as but a lot of people considered one of
the great one of the or the greatest director of
all time, and it's it's hard to argue with that
he's at least in that top five.
Speaker 1 (10:50):
Absolutely all right, now, let's uh his His films are
known for their ambiguity, right, They're known for may forcing
the audience to question what am I watching? Or what
did I watch? Or what's my take on it? I
will challenge you, sir, can you give us a brief
(11:10):
synopsis for Eyes Wide Shot? And give for the listeners
that maybe haven't watched this one, or maybe for the
ones that have watched it like ten times and still question,
like what is going on? Can you give us the
Brad Kozo take?
Speaker 2 (11:26):
So I feel like this would have been the back
of the VHS box book. Doctor Bill Hartford is a wealthy,
well known doctor living in upscale New York City. He
has a beautiful wife, Alice, a seven year old daughter,
his own practice, and a list of high profile patients.
Just when Bill's life seemed to be picture perfect, a
night at a wealthy aristocrat's holiday party sends Bill on
(11:49):
a journey of sexual desires, fears, temptations, infidelity, and possibly murder.
Speaker 1 (11:56):
That would be a great couple of paragraphs on the
back of the Blu Ray. I think, yeah, Brat, let's
let's talk about the original trailer that came out. This
is This is Tom and Nicole melting the screen with
their sexuality. This is nineteen. I want to say it
was like late ninety eight when when we got the
first trailer. Maybe that or early to or early ninety nine. Yeah,
(12:20):
but we've got Chris Isaac's very playful, very dirty, very
naughty baby did a bad, bad thing song playing over
all these quick cuts, right, and it's just you can't
take your eyes off the screen.
Speaker 2 (12:35):
No. And it's the perfect song for it because it's
just baby. The way it's sanked into the trailer, it
is these people are doing things, these very very bad things.
And after rewatching the trailer again, I can sort of
see how those rumors got started. But it looked like
a Kubrick film. When I saw it, it felt like
(12:57):
a Kubrick film, Like I remember seeing the trailer be like, Okay,
it looks like his. You know, the way the lights are,
the low lighting lighting, the walking through the corridors with
the steady cam. I mean a lot of that is
just him. And I'm like, that's what I'm expecting, and
that's pretty much what I got. But yeah, the trailer
was I'd say, yeah, it said Cruise and Kimvin, but
(13:20):
the star was Kubrick.
Speaker 1 (13:22):
Well, you don't know what the hell the film is about,
but you can't wait to find out. I don't think,
you know, like the the only time I can think
of a trailer this good that tells you nothing but
but just get you so excited for the film would
probably be uh, paulp fiction that when that trailer came out.
Speaker 2 (13:43):
Yeah, because it was just kind of music.
Speaker 1 (13:45):
Yeah, yeah, I gotta ask you. Uh, I know, and
I know we're gonna get into a lot about this movie.
But but Tom and Nicole signed open ended contracts, specifically
agreeing to work on the project until Stanley could release
them from it, regardless of how long the project would take.
And keep in mind Mission Impossible to and practical Magic.
(14:08):
Their next features they get, they get basically they get
bumped like they can't do them because Kubrick is not ready.
And ultimately this production goes what four hundred days.
Speaker 2 (14:19):
Yeah, well it's a continuous shoot too, And I mean
I get it. The chance to work with the greatest
director you know of all time, you know, and he's
willing to like get personal with you, and he's gonna
be You're gonna be working with Stanley Kubrick and you
(14:40):
are met even have a relationship with him. Like I
can see it. You know why they did it, but
I also feel that it was probably very difficult after
the camera sep rolling, Oh, I have.
Speaker 1 (14:54):
To what I had to it. I mean, think about
how long they end up staying in the UK. Their
their children took on English accents after a while. I
remember there's a fun story h Vincent Dinafrio. Uh, you
know he we know him as Kingpin in the Marvel
universe now, but he once did a Kubrick movie. You
(15:16):
know he played uh, he played Laurence Leonard Lawrence right
Private Pile and in Full Metal Jacket. And uh, I
love the story I read where he found out that
they were doing a Kubrick film and his he said,
my advice, buy a house. You're not going anywhere for
a while, Brad. Let's take a quick break, and then
(15:39):
when we come back, we will we'll start talking about, uh,
this small but very impressive cast. Welcome back. We are
talking about Stanley Kubrick. And his psychological drama, his erotic thriller.
I don't know what you call this, Brad. It's Christmas movie?
Can we call it a non traditional Christmas movie?
Speaker 2 (16:01):
You did a non traditional Christmas movie? Yes?
Speaker 1 (16:03):
Yeah, talking about eyes Wade shut and uh, this this
this amazing cast. Tom Cruise as doctor Bill Harford. So
back when Kubrick is conceiving the film, he's looking at
Harrison Ford. That doesn't happen before Tom shows up. He's
(16:24):
looking at Johnny Depp. That would have been interesting.
Speaker 2 (16:27):
I think a little too young, you think, do you think.
Speaker 1 (16:32):
Ninety nine Depp is a little too young to play it?
Speaker 2 (16:34):
Maybe a little too young and a little too pretty
for the part.
Speaker 1 (16:39):
You know, you're saying he's too pretty. But meanwhile, Tom
Cruise does get the part.
Speaker 2 (16:44):
Brad Well, Tom Cruise. We just know, we know Tom Cruise,
you know, and this, I mean, it's like, you know,
before we all even I feel like I don't know
a time when we didn't have Tom Cruise, you know,
in our movies the ends, And I'll always say something
about his performance in this. The way he has to
(17:07):
play this part is really like no other. And this
is why I think he's great at it. He has
to play a character very unlikable, very lots of scenes
of being embarrassed, shameful. Huge. I mean, if somebody asked
me what is this movie about, I think I'd say insecurity,
and it was I mean as big as a movie
(17:28):
star that Tom Cruise is. Even as watching you know,
he's doing these things and I'm like, stop, stop, idiot,
it comes you know, it's like his character is not
very bright, he's not very good detective. He does not
cover his tracks, and so this is not the Tom
Cruise movie star we're used to. It's really seeing him
(17:52):
as a kind of a weak, vulnerable guy. And yeah,
that's why I think it's such a great performance. Because, yeah,
people that I think if you don't like Tom Cruise,
you will love this movie because he's kind of a
punching bag in the movie.
Speaker 1 (18:08):
I really think you're onto something here. Because Tom Cruise
himself was quoted as saying he didn't like playing this character,
but he did confess that he would have absolutely been
kicking himself if he hadn't done this project. He had
to do it. But you're right, this is this is
not the action hero Tom. This is not confident Tom
(18:30):
this is no. Yeah, how about that? What do you
all in all you're saying this is one of his
better performances in.
Speaker 2 (18:38):
Oh yeah, absolutely, you know, but like I said, this
is one of those I mean, I don't know, what
do you want to talk about? It was like, this
is one of those movies that was kind of scorned
when it first came out, and over the last you know,
twenty something years, has really kind of gotten, you know,
aged very well. It's part of pulp culture people. I'm
(18:59):
here people making jokes about it on other movies or
shows and stuff, and like, wow, more people have seen
this movie than I think. And you always see those lists,
you know, here's the underrated Tom Cruise performance you're missing,
Here's the Stanley Kubrick movie that has aged better than
all you know, so stuff like that, and it has
kind of picked up momentum.
Speaker 1 (19:20):
I think I think the reason behind that is when
this first comes out, I mean, the internet is in
its infancy. Yeah, there are no no there's no podcast,
there's no movie websites. It's not it's not really a
thing yet. So you go see a movie and maybe
you read an article in Entertainment Weekly from a critic.
(19:42):
But it's it's hard to understand why a movie is
considered great or why it's considered a flop, especially when
you don't have anyone to share your ideas with aside
from the people that you go see the movies with
at the time. And this was very divisive. You know,
this is a movie where the movie, even when you
watch it like your fifth time, you're still debating on
(20:05):
what actually happens at the end, what's going on in
this this secret society, this on this underworld, if you will.
And it's not until recent years where you've got like
subreddits on Reddit and you've got you know, people writing
full you know, uh like thesis papers on it and
(20:27):
and digging into all the little things that come with
a Kubrick film where you start to go, hey, wait,
I never thought about that. You know, all the conspiracy
theories start popping up, right, and there's some crazy ones
with this one, you know, kind of a kind of
The Shining, you know. We there's an amazing documentary on Netflix,
What Were Room two three seven that go just goes
(20:48):
off the charge, It just goes off the rails with
what The Shining was actually about. But I feel like
eyes Wide shut. Is in that realm where you think
that's not that good. I didn't didn't, I didn't make
it didn't make sense to me. Therefore I don't care
for it until you hear someone's theory or you hear
someone's take on it, and then all of a sudden
you're like, I have got to go back and watch
(21:09):
that film. I had no idea what was going on,
and that's.
Speaker 2 (21:13):
What Kubrick was very good at. That's why his films
need multiple viewings. I don't think any one of them
that I've sat down and watched for the first time
I loved immediately right away, you know. But it is
this itch that you keep coming back to, like this,
(21:34):
I gotta go back and watch. I didn't really care
if that, but there's something itching that I gotta find out.
And then you just keep going here. Let you start
to realize something each time. That's he was just always
ahead of the curve with everyone.
Speaker 1 (21:46):
Before we get too far away from that trailer. One
last thing about the trailer with that just perfect song
by Chris Isaac. Do you know how that song found
its way to the.
Speaker 2 (21:56):
Trailer that I don't know because I it wasn't made
for the soundtrack. Was it?
Speaker 1 (22:05):
It was not. But here here's the fun thing. Obviously,
Nicole Kidman has got to do a lot of a
graphic sexual acting in this film. There's a lot there's nudity,
you know, and this is something we're not used to
seeing with the Nicole Kibmen. So while they're on set
(22:27):
and she's doing like, you know, she's stripping out of
her slinky black dress at the beginning of the film,
and she's trying on lingerie and this and that to
help her get comfortable, Kuprick just said, hey, play whatever
music you like, just get into it, get into the mood,
you know, feel get loose a little bit. It was
baby did a bad, bad thing that she played a
(22:48):
lot to help her find her confidence and help her
get comfortable. On set, he fell in love with the
song and said that that song's gonna be in the marketing.
We got we gotta make that with the trailer, so
we got we got Nicole Kiben to think about that.
Nicole Kimmen playing the wife, the dutiful wife, Alice Harford,
she's Brett. She said, working with Kubrick was like attending
(23:10):
film school.
Speaker 2 (23:12):
Oh, I'm sure and so my wife waned through about
half of the movie last night, but before falling asleep,
but like she was, we did talk about actually a
little bit before the show, and like she's saying, she
owns the first quarter half of this movie.
Speaker 1 (23:28):
You know that's Nicole.
Speaker 2 (23:30):
Yeah, she just tears it up.
Speaker 1 (23:32):
You know.
Speaker 2 (23:33):
It feels like a lot is him and a lot
is him. But when she's when she's on, she's on.
Speaker 1 (23:40):
Could anyone else have played this role? And keep in mind,
like they're I mean, they're married at the time they
go into this film. You know, think back to ninety
eight ninety nine. They were Hollywood's power couple.
Speaker 2 (23:52):
Yeah, you know, they're America's sweethearts.
Speaker 1 (23:54):
America's sweethearts had done they've done a couple. You know
what at this point we had had what Far and
Away and Days of Thunder where work together, and you
know that we were just not expecting something as sexually
charged as this film. And she's mesmerizing. Yeah, he is
absolutely mesmerizing.
Speaker 2 (24:12):
She just liked was very I don't know, she just
seems so like she was always kind of toying with
him in his head, in her head, you know.
Speaker 1 (24:23):
Yeah, Well she's in control oh yeah, Oh yeah, I
knew how to be in control too. You know, the beginning,
they're getting ready for Ziggler's party. Even even when you
think this guy, this this predatory older guy who's dancing
with her for for like a for like a second,
you're a little concerned, you know, where is she a
little too drunk? Is she a little because she's kind
(24:44):
of hazy? And he's like, hey, let's go upstairs and
look at the private art gallery. Yeah, And for a
minute you're like, hey, be careful, Nicole. But then she
just snaps out of it, puts this guy in his place,
and then later you know, I know we'll get to this,
we'll get to the scenes. But just the way she
controls the I don't know if you want to call
it an argument, but the discussion after the party that
(25:07):
she has with Tom, she's never she's never not in
control of their of their relationship. I feel like in
the film, well you.
Speaker 2 (25:14):
Can tell the hungarian guy has never been told no.
He's he looks like he's very good at seduction and
so seeing her, and the thing is too, is that
he knows he can tell a little bit that she
kind of wants to go with him.
Speaker 1 (25:30):
Well, you know, you said the film, your take is
that the film is about insecurity. I would I would uh,
I would offer that the film is about the desire
and dare I say the deception of power? Mm? Hm.
And I think this is something that Nicole Kimmen does
(25:50):
expertly in this film with this performance, I'll tell you, uh,
maybe the surprising performance for me is uh is Sidney
Pollack direct.
Speaker 2 (26:00):
I love when Sidney Pollack. I love when he acts.
It's usually just a little bit, but when he acts,
he's so much fun to watch. So he's actually a
really good actor.
Speaker 1 (26:11):
So the only reason he's here, Harvey kaititel Is is
Victor Zeigler. And then after like the two hundredth take
of walking through a doorway or something like, Kit tells like,
all right, I'm out, I've had enough. He leaves, he quits,
and Sidney Pollack is you know, he shows up at
the eleventh hour to take on this role. And I
love the fact that, you know, the the billiard room
(26:33):
scene at the end of the movie, and I know
we'll talk about it. It takes an insanely long time
to shoot this thing, like a couple of weeks and Tom,
you know, had mentioned that, Hey, I think Sidney Pollack
showed up a little too prepared. He had he had notes,
you know, for Kubrick. So Kuber's like, okay, well we'll
(26:54):
do We'll do a different version each time and we'll
just see, like do you if okay, I get it
your Sidney Pollock, but do you show up to Kubrick's
film and give him some suggestions or give him some
thoughts or do you just show up and do the job?
Speaker 2 (27:09):
I mean, I would just show up and do the job.
But hey, you know, if he got the balls to
do that, go for it.
Speaker 1 (27:16):
How good is Sidney Pollack in this film?
Speaker 2 (27:19):
He's he's so good every time that he's in something.
Just like I said, he's only in it for a
little bit, but he always kind of makes the scenes
a little bit better. But the character that he was playing,
he had that look. I could I could believe that
he's playing that kind of guy. You know, he's he's
very much like it's okay, and you know it's like
(27:42):
we'll take care of it. We'll take care of it.
He's got it. He's got a tight power grab.
Speaker 1 (27:47):
Well, he's used like the like the hungarian guy who's
not used to being told no. Ziggler's just used to
not only getting his way, but when things don't go
his way, he's used to he immediately has a way
to sweep it under the rug. You know, like the
first time we meet Mandy, you know, Tom Tom's down there,
Tom Katton with the two young models, and then you know,
(28:07):
one of Ziggler's guy's like, hey, we need you upstairs.
You know, beautiful, beautiful woman, catatonic, she's odeed and he's there, like,
you know, in his tuxedo pants and his suspenders. He's like, ah, yay,
we things got a little messy here.
Speaker 2 (28:21):
You know what do you notice? It seems like this
isn't the He acts so natural, as like he's done
it again. I feel like he's the Ziggler has done
this kind of thing before, and he knows and I mean, Jesus,
the balls on this guy to be having a Christmas
party his wife and everything is downstairs and he's having
(28:43):
sex with this prostitute up and the bathroom or like
the bathroom right, you know, and stuff, and I'm like, man,
I'm like, he's just get through the night, you.
Speaker 1 (28:54):
Know, at least well, how about you're absolutely right. He's
done this multiple times, and just the coldness of his
demeanor where he's like, all right, she's uh, we go
ahead and get her out of here, right, And Tom's like,
I know, I think she needs you know, at least
an hour. He's like an hour, like, yeah, you did
(29:16):
a bad thing. You you don't want the naked hooker
to be hanging out upstairs and uh, your your your house,
you know, like I get it, but but but.
Speaker 2 (29:25):
It shows that his character is one of these many
sexually possessed you know, sex addicts that cannot say nos.
You know, yeah, they have to have it.
Speaker 1 (29:38):
This society, these these I mean, let's let's be honest.
You know, when you when you think about the party,
everyone that's there, you got to think the poorest guy
in the room is probably a multi millionaire. This is yeah,
this is society's like the one percenters, right, this is
the elite of the elite. Right. Yeah, I'm getting ahead
(29:59):
of myself, Brad. Let's let's talk a little bit about
the background, because I know you probably got got a
little bit about this, like you said, uh he he
optioned the Schnitzler's novella took a long time to to
get get around to doing it. But uh, you know
one thing I will add to your factoid. He actually
found this book while he was making Spartacus and it
(30:22):
was only because he was doing therapy with Kirk Douglas. Yeah,
because they were not getting along. I guess the book
was was there and you know what's this picks it
up and I think I'll make a movie about this
in a few decades. Uh. I gotta tell you, Kubrick
maybe crossing the line a little bit with his stars. Uh.
(30:47):
And I'm not talking about the contract, the insane contract.
To get them ready, he joined them in psychoanalysis sessions
where he had, you know, he had Tom and Nicole
confess their fears about relatelationships, about their real life marriage,
you know, divulging secrets. According to Nicole Kipman, it was
(31:08):
a very I'm quoting her, she says it was a
brutally honest and blurred line between themselves and their fictional characters.
And after they did these sessions, they made a vow
to each other to never reveal the details of what
they discussed.
Speaker 2 (31:26):
Right.
Speaker 1 (31:27):
I get you, I know you're Stanley Kubrick, but isn't
that going a little too far?
Speaker 2 (31:31):
He wanted to try something different. You know, it was risky,
time consuming, but I think he just wanted to see
what he could get out of it.
Speaker 1 (31:42):
You know.
Speaker 2 (31:43):
It's like how he's always been that kind of director
that's gonna go over the edge. If he's gonna do it,
then full on do it. I mean, you gotta think
that anybody that was a part of that crew now
looks back on that is like I got to spend
all this time working with Stanley Kubrick. At the time,
they probably hated it, but now looking back on it,
(32:04):
they wouldn't trade it for a second.
Speaker 1 (32:06):
I've got one more fun little fact about the production.
Speaker 2 (32:11):
And because you took all of mine, you already.
Speaker 1 (32:14):
Is there any anything else you want to add? Though?
Before I give you you got you got.
Speaker 2 (32:18):
The record for the longest shoot. Harrison Ford's first choice
for Bill Irby I tell and jenniferjason Oh yeah, Jennifer
Jason Lee was another one that had to quit.
Speaker 1 (32:27):
What about she was Jennifer Jason Lee. I didn't know
she was in this.
Speaker 2 (32:31):
Yeah, she was supposed to play the girl that her
father dies, mary Anne, mary Anne, and so yes, she
was supposed to play her, but I think it was
she had to start her next project. You know, I
can't say, you know, like Harvey Gotell was like, I
got other jobs.
Speaker 1 (32:51):
I have to do.
Speaker 2 (32:52):
I can't keep staying here.
Speaker 1 (32:54):
So she was like, oh, uh, four hundred day shoot
and you want to do six hundred takes of it. Yeah,
I'm good, Yeah, I'm moving on. Yeah. Brad. After he
finished his production and we've got like three or four
miles worth of film to edit, he several times watched
(33:14):
Basic Instinct, Fatal.
Speaker 2 (33:17):
And your favorite movie.
Speaker 1 (33:19):
Well it's not my favorite, but what but truly a
Jeff Johnson's favorite Showgirls. Uh, he's watching these films to
get an idea of how explicit the sex scenes can
be in the movie without getting the dreaded NC seventeen.
I mean, so, you know, I'll go to be honest,
(33:40):
the next time someone gives me shit for liking show Girls,
I'll remind them that one of the greatest cinematic minds
of our of our time, Stanley Kruber, also watching that show.
Let's you want to take a break and then we'll
talk some noteworthy scenes. Absolutely all right, okay, welcome back.
(34:04):
We are going to talk about a couple noteworthy scenes
and hopefully find our way to the pivotal moment. Brad,
Can we start with the discussion between Bill and Alice. Uh,
they get home from Ziggler's party, they smoke some pot.
Speaker 2 (34:24):
This is the next night? Is this? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (34:27):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (34:27):
So the party and then they have.
Speaker 1 (34:32):
She was like yeah, she because she's like, we should
we should call and thank him for the fun party.
But they're they're hanging out, you know, they get high,
they're getting a little frisky. And then Nicole, Uh, I
should say Alice gets a little aggressive. You know, let's
just say, hey, you know what this I think this
pot's making you a little aggressive, Alice.
Speaker 2 (34:53):
But she had bad weed.
Speaker 1 (34:55):
She had some bad weed there, I think. But this,
this is an incredible, incredible conversation they're having, and it's
all about jealousy and evolution, and you know she's because
you know she It starts off like, well, who are
there's two little.
Speaker 2 (35:11):
Yeah, they're getting they're kind of like getting off on
each other, telling each other about somebody else. You're like, oh,
it's about to get get crazy in here, all right, Yeah?
Speaker 1 (35:20):
And then who who is that guy you're dancing with Oh,
he's just someone, you know, and you know he's he's
he's kind of I mean, it's it's raw, you know,
he's kind of he's kissing on he's kind of groping her,
and he's like, oh, this guy wants to fuck my
wife and yeah, and he's like that's she gets yeah,
it's hot, and she gets upset. She's like, oh, so
no one, no one's gonna look at me unless they
want to fuck me. And and then he realizes he
(35:42):
has definitely taken a wrong turn.
Speaker 2 (35:44):
Here, and he keeps doing it.
Speaker 1 (35:48):
Yeah, just let her man. Yeah, but this is the
scene that sets this whole movie, you know, this odyssey,
this this night long odyssey that he goes on because
he's like, hey, you know, guys are guys, but girls
don't think like that. And then she destroys him with
(36:09):
this this story that's like, hey, you remember Kate Cod
last summer, that naval officer that we saw in the lobby,
couldn't stop thinking about him. I would have given up anything, you,
our daughter, our life, our marriage just to have him.
And she talks about this fantasy that she's got and
just cuts him down to pe you know, down to size.
(36:31):
I think it's such a powerful moment for her character.
Speaker 2 (36:34):
Yeah well, I mean you got to think about how
you're supposed to react to what she says. You can
be aggravated, you can be mad, but technically she didn't
do anything wrong. She just had some feelings, but still
pisses you off. And it's like, you know, and he's
(36:56):
seeing himself because you can tell when he left those
two models, he was like, that's girls. I can you know?
I can't you know? And he's like, I left those
two models. And she's telling me this story and it's
like she just toyed with him, I mean just annihilated him.
(37:18):
I mean his manhood, his like I said, to his
as ability as a lover, as a husband, as a father,
a provider. She just cut it all down and saying,
for one night with this dude, you know, giving it
to me, i'd I would, I would leave you guys
(37:38):
in a second. And it's like, what am I supposed
to say about that? I mean, he's just stuck because
you can't you can't be like, oh, you know, oh
she did this wrong, but she technically didn't do anything wrong.
Speaker 1 (37:54):
She takes okay, so she all she does. Her crime
is that she's honest with him, right, but I mean,
like a brain ninja, she has put this thought in
his head. And now we're inside Tom's head, or we're
inside Bill's head, because what's going to happen is obviously
he's going to imagine what she's talking about, and it's
(38:17):
going to be the rawest, most dirty, just most graphic thing.
And these were difficult scenes for her to film. You know,
when you watch this film and we're and we're in
Bill's mind thinking, you know, like what like the worst
possible thing. It's not the soft, beautiful, candlelit type of
(38:38):
love making. This is animalistic to a point. You know, this,
this this sailor is like he's taking her her underwear off,
he's stripping her, he's on top of her, he's all
he's all over her, and it's you know, I mean
imagine that, like you're Tom Cruise, You're one of the
most powerful guys in Hollywood, You're married to one of
the most beautiful stars some one of the most powerful
(39:01):
stars in Hollywood, and Nicole Kidman and and this is
this is a day at work. You're watching this guy
who's well like twenty four years old, just go to
town your wife like that could not be a good
work environment for two I just couldn't be, especially for
four hundred days. Man.
Speaker 2 (39:17):
Yeah, I mean he just he goes down the just
bad man verse that he shouldn't go down because in
his mind he thinks, well she would have so I could, right, yeah,
so I could.
Speaker 1 (39:35):
Well he's mad, right, he's right. He wants to get
even with something that she didn't even do, and within
within a twenty four hour period, he's what, He's kissed
two different women, you know, solicited to prostitute. He doesn't
go through with anything with the prostitute, but still, you know,
then he finds his way to the next scene. I
think we got to talk about, Brad. What is the password?
Speaker 2 (39:58):
Sir Fidelio?
Speaker 1 (40:00):
Is this not the party that you would absolutely love
to be at? Well?
Speaker 2 (40:06):
I don't know who it was that said it, but somebody, uh,
some reporter that's actually been to one of these types
of parties says that this is very tame the one
and eyes by shut compared to what the real one is.
I mean, this is something that I think, this is
a be careful what you wish for type of thing.
Speaker 1 (40:29):
This you know it's who is It's Nick Nightingale who
tells him like, hey, the blindfold, you know, wasn't that
tight in the things I saw, you can't imagine it's so,
you know, and I get this is the scene that
kind of sparks plenty of conspiracy theories online about what's
actually happening at these parties. And I don't know how
(40:52):
much you want to get into the theories.
Speaker 2 (40:54):
No, I just I mean I think it was. Yeah,
it was definitely over hyped of what was what was
going to be happening. I expected something like something like that,
but I mean.
Speaker 1 (41:08):
Well I'm not. I mean, I'm I mean, yeah, we
get it. There's a it's a there's a sexual orgy happening,
you know, all after all the pageantry, after all the
the ritual, you know, with the masks and the Yeah,
the music that I'm gonna say is scary as shit, Like, yeah,
that music, you know, I'm not even talking about the creepy,
(41:32):
deep voiced Latin or whatever that is going on. I'm
talking about that stinging piano, that one note that just
hits every now and then. This is horror film music
at its best. And it's not even a horror film.
But but maybe it is a horror film because you know,
one of the prevailing theories, Brad, is that this is
(41:54):
you know, we get it, it's a secret society, but
this is like your upper you know, like the elite
of the elite, the most power people in the world,
and this it's it's all about sex trafficking, you know,
but it's about the grooming of women at an early age.
Oh yeah, so, and I think there's a lot of
that going on, you know, And that's that's one of
(42:14):
the fun things about this movie. You said, you know,
this is one you go back, you watch it over
and over again, or you find yourself in uh, you know,
a subreddit on Reddit, or you find yourself, you know,
reading someone's thoughts and you're like, I never picked up
on that, you know.
Speaker 2 (42:28):
Yeah, I mean you got to sometimes fill in the
missing pieces with your own kind of assumption of what
happened next or in between, you know, type of thing.
Because you know, before he shows up, before he goes,
he had just went to see Domino and he got
bailed out, you know, saved by the bell. You know,
(42:50):
his wife calls him and he feels really guilty. He
was okay by them, but he figured, I'm still gonna
walk around. Okay, I'll go see my buddy, I'll hang
out with a guy. I'm mean, yeah, guy shot you
drink my manhood back. And then he tells me about
that and he gets hooked again. It's he just keeps
getting hooked when he needs to stop. It's like, we're
(43:12):
telling you this is a bad idea. You've been warned,
and he keeps doing it.
Speaker 1 (43:17):
Yeah. The Secret Society is doing their best to give
him every opportunity to just stay away, and he can't.
Speaker 2 (43:24):
Yeah, right, this ends, you know.
Speaker 1 (43:29):
Okay, So there's some stuff happening here, like think about this.
You know, he needs the costume right right, very specifically.
He needs a cloak with a hood and a mask
and a tuxedo. He goes to the the Rainbow Costume
Shop or whatever, and there's some weird shit happening there
with you know, Millich, the owner, and then his his
(43:53):
very young daughter, who is played by h Lely Sobiski. Brad, Yeah,
for teen year old le Lily Sobiski. And there's clearly
that you can't tell me that that's not some kind
of you know, child sex trafficking thing that's happening in
that shop. Oh yeah, with the Asian guys. But you know,
but she's been groomed. She's kind of into it. And
(44:16):
even when Tom, like like Tom shows up that weird
moment right where she whispers something in his ear.
Speaker 2 (44:24):
Yeah, and I always thought she said something really you know,
sexy or nasty or something. She said something about like
putting on this certain kind of like silk liner in
like with the with the tux eater or the cloak.
Speaker 1 (44:37):
You'll need an ermine lining your cloak. Now, kind of
odd that this costume shop just happens to have the
kind of a tire that you need for one of
these parties. But she clearly is has been around the block.
She knows about it because she's suggesting to him hermine,
so that, you know, because it's like a status symbol,
like you know, if people see this as the lining
(44:58):
of his cloak, they'll know that he's one of the
upper you know, upper the elite. You know, right, he'll
be along, right because he, like you said, he's a
terrible detective. He's yeah, you know, like Pollack says, you know, well,
you know, you showed up in a taxi, but a cab.
Rest of us are in Limos pal you know.
Speaker 2 (45:16):
And then I noticed last night watching it that he
doesn't put his mask onto. He's like all the way in,
like yeah, halfway into the building. I'm like, you need
to put that thing on before you knock got the door.
Speaker 1 (45:26):
Put the mask on in a taxi cab. Hey, I'm
going to this fun party and just hang out. Man,
here's here's a hundred bucks. He's awful at not giving
himself away.
Speaker 2 (45:36):
Well, I think is that if you put it in
Bill the married man with seven year old daughter's perspective,
He feel likes he's lost his youth. He feels like
maybe he's at his sexual peak. His wife isn't. He's
starting to think about other women. But when he goes
out this night, he sees how dangerous some of the
(45:57):
stuff that he desires is. Oh, you you want this
crazy sex stuff? This is how it is, you know,
the fourteen year old girl, the crazy cult. You know,
it's like, trust me, you're good where you are, be happy.
Speaker 1 (46:11):
With what you have. Yeah, well, ignorance is bliss right
like you you know. Uh, Ziggler tries to warn him,
like you I'm not gonna name names. You know, if
if you knew who's at that party. I'm not gonna
tell you who's at that party, but if you knew,
you'd he'd be scared, you'd you know, you'd be worried. Yeah,
and that you know that. I guess that kind of
(46:32):
brings us into the third scene that I think we
need to talk about. And if there's another scene that
you want to talk about after this, we we certainly will.
But it's that that moment where he confronts Ziggler, or
I should say Ziggler confronts sim and says, hey, I
know where you were. I know what's going on. And
he's still just trying badly trying to hide what he's
been up to, and Zick just like I was there, man,
(46:53):
I saw you. Yeah, Oh well gave me away and cruise.
Speaker 2 (46:57):
When he knows he's caught, he I mean, he literally
looks sick to his stomach, like he's that's always like
he looks so embarrassed. He doesn't know what to say,
and he like he got him. You know, it's like
he tried to put off I don't know what you're
talking about. No, you're a terrible liar.
Speaker 1 (47:17):
Man, Yeah, let's cut the bullshit, man like yeah, And
the look on Cruise's face where he's it's like he's
fighting the urge to just explode into tears in emotion,
but he's still trying to. He's smile and he's like, well,
I don't know what you're talking about me. Yeah, but
he's he's caught, you know, you know, but he can't
(47:37):
let it go. Even even though he knows he's caught,
he still has to know, like what is this all about?
Who are these people? And Ziggler is doing his best
to tell him who these people are and what they're
capable of doing. Yeah, especially if he doesn't back off
and just forget it right Yoh yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (47:55):
I mean he's trying to do his little you know,
Johnny detective thing. It's just like you said, he is
you have no idea, You have no idea how powerful,
how high about this goes you're And two, it's because
he's like wants to find out if they murdered that girl,
you know, Mandy, who was supposed to be There's a
(48:17):
lot of things that you sometimes don't know for sure.
This is one of those movies you don't know for sure.
Speaker 1 (48:24):
Like, was it her?
Speaker 2 (48:25):
He says, it's her, but was it her? Oh? And
uh well, oh real quick about the orgy scene, do
you know who does the voice of the man party
was about to say Mandy.
Speaker 1 (48:39):
I was just about to say, like, we we've got
three different actresses playing Mandy on purpose, and again it's
it's to kind of I think it's it's confusing us
and and Bill right, because we're Bill's our avatar or
we're along for the right with Bill and I remember
the first time, you know, you see Mandy, you get
(48:59):
a very good look at her head to toe in
the Ziggler's bathroom, and then the woman you know, she's
she has the mask and you're like it, you know,
not to be crude, Brad, but it could be her.
It could be that's not you know, I'm yeah, I'm
looking at another naked female body, but yeah, that's I
don't think that's her. I'm pretty sure.
Speaker 2 (49:20):
And it's like, yeah, and it's like I only saw
her for a very short amount of time. Yeah, it
seems like it's her, but it's a little different in
my head. Even when he looks at her on the
slab lab in the Morgue, it's kind of like that's
the only way he can identify her is to basically
stare at her naked body because that's what he saw
(49:42):
up front.
Speaker 1 (49:43):
And then meanwhile, the actress who play who plays the
the Mandy at the at the party, or I should
say at the Yeah, Amanda Curran. Uh So in real life,
she's got a tosh accent. Obviously, because they're in the
United Kingdom. Kubrick doesn't want that. He wants an American accent.
(50:05):
They find another actress who has a pretty good American
accent but also is not American. Who is that, Brad?
Speaker 2 (50:13):
It's Kate Blanchett.
Speaker 1 (50:14):
Kate Blanchett. And I'm telling you, man, like the first
couple of times you watch it, you're like, your brain
doesn't hear Kate Blanchette. Is You're looking at a naked
woman with a mask on, right, But then when you
when you know it's Kate Blanchett, it messes with you
because you're like, that is clearly, clearly Kate Kate Blanchette's voice. Yeah,
but that's is that Kate Blanchett? What's going on here?
(50:37):
You know? Yeah? I got these three scenes, Brad are
one of them. The pivotal moment of this film, or
do you have something that you feel is the pivotal
moment that that we haven't talked about.
Speaker 2 (50:48):
I think the pool table scene is because you see it. Yeah,
it's the confessional. It's everything on the table, and it's
you're not gonna win this one. You're not gonna in
this argument. A girl is dead and there's nothing that
you and I can do about it, he tells me.
He tells him it was fake, and like I said, like,
(51:11):
you don't know for sure, but you make your own
conclusion out of it. But he is basically saying, yeah,
it was fake, but if we really wanted to, oh yeah,
we could have killed her and just dumped her and
made it look very easy. You know, powerful people there,
probably worked for the newspaper. They can write it up
in them.
Speaker 1 (51:29):
Yeah. Yeah, it's I think what what Pollack is doing
in that scene, and I agree with you it's the
pivotal moment of the film. What he's doing is a
plausible deniability. Yeah, it was all in act. Yeah, when
she says she was, she'll redeem you. She'll she'll yeah
she did. We didn't kill her, she just you know,
got her brain left out, you know. It's Yeah, I
(51:50):
feel like he's basically didn't like say that she's fine.
But if we don't want her to be fine, she's
not gonna be fine. Like it's like I'm gonna be
We're gonna be scary, but we're also not gonna admit
to doing anything evil. That's how I took it.
Speaker 2 (52:04):
Yeah, absolutely, and like you said, to scare the ever
living shit out of you.
Speaker 1 (52:09):
Yeah, one uh one final, one, final moment that you
just didn't see coming. And it's it's that whole Chekhov's
gun thing right where we saw something at the beginning,
you know, or in the middle the mask. You know,
Millach is like, uh, where's the mask? You don't have
the mask? He's he's given the costume back. I must
(52:30):
have dropped it. I don't know, it's where's it at?
And the first first time you see this, you're like,
who gives it? It's a twenty dollars mask? No deal.
Until the end, the scary piano comes back. Nicole Kimmen
sound asleep and on his pillow lays the mask. Brad
she knows, Uh.
Speaker 2 (52:51):
I don't think she knows yet. What they that shows
is we can get right to your family. Yeah, you
have them ask we can get you, and you'll never
even see us coming. They were right next to his wife,
putting that there in his house.
Speaker 1 (53:07):
Okay, so your your thought is she okay thought here
she finds the mask. Okay, So either she finds the
mask puts it on the pillow as like more of
a we need to talk, or you're saying she's sun
asleep and these powerful men get in the house and
put the mask on the pillow.
Speaker 2 (53:27):
Oh yeah, that's right.
Speaker 1 (53:28):
And then he just gives himself up.
Speaker 2 (53:29):
Oh yeah, he gives himself out this base say we're
in danger, we could be in danger, and that's when
he yeah. It's like, oh yeah, you didn't think how
powerful we are. We just got right next to your wife,
and who knows if we wanted to, we can get
your daughter too, So shut your mouth.
Speaker 1 (53:45):
Okay, speaking speaking, we can get your daughter too. Another
theory I found online, I want I want the brad
Kozo take on this. Okay, the entire movie. Every time
we see the daughter Nicole Kidman, is you know, feeding her,
primping her, combing her hair, straightening her hair. She's always
like She's like grooming her to some extent. So there's
(54:08):
one theory out there that suggests that Nicole Kidman was
one of these brainwashed women in the colt, right, and
that she was given to you know, like Tom, you
know Bill, not like given, but like it's like, hey,
we're gonna let him meet this woman, and she cook
she can have a life. And then she it's almost
(54:29):
like hypnotizing her, like the creepy hungarian guy when they're dancing,
he's saying certain things and she's like, not drunk, but
maybe she's just getting like she's fallen back into like
the the brainwashing of this cult. Right. Yeah, So one
theory suggests that Nicole Kimmen was one of these women
who they allowed a life and now the price of silence,
(54:51):
the price of admission, is we're taking your daughter. And
I was like that, that's not right. That didn't happen.
But people online point out that the last scene, they're
in the toy store and there's two creepy guys that
were at the party, you know, like the one guy
that was falling on the street. They're in the toy store,
and the last time you see the little girl, she's
(55:13):
walking away with the two men, and then we cut
to tight shot on Nicole Kidman and Tom Cruise and
they're talking about how they move forward and what we're
going to do to get past this, and then the
movie ends. So does that hold any any water for you? Bread?
Speaker 2 (55:30):
What those people online said is so wrong and so
out of context. Okay, absolutely not. I think if anything,
maybe they are watching him. But no, she's just she
knew nothing about it. And I think I know why
(55:52):
that kind of started. Nicole Kimmen in recent years has
played very similar characters that have that are powerful, that
have a sexual past. Okay, So I feel like a
lot of that came like a couple of things that
she has done, like from a series of Netflix, you know,
Big Old Liars and all that stuff. It's a lot
(56:13):
of that is is very similar to those characters. But
I don't think she's a she was a part of
it at all.
Speaker 1 (56:19):
Okay. But and I'm not I'm not I'm not on
the side of the internet sleuth. But I'll point out
one thing, just playing Devil's Advocate here, when he did
when he gets home, Yeah, and she wakes up, you know,
she's like laughing, and then he wakes her up from
what she is all the night before nightmare, Yeah, the
night before, and she basically explains a very specific scene
(56:45):
that he just witnessed at the party, and it's all
about her having sex with hundreds of guys. She can't
keep track of how many guys. And when you put
that her dream, it's almost like is she was she
dreaming or was she was it a repressed memory from her,
like her youth, and like, you don't think so that's
(57:06):
not there.
Speaker 2 (57:07):
I just I feel like, so he comes home originally,
you know, from the you know, the from the party,
and I think he's got it, like, okay, I got
out of this one. Yeah that was just way over
my head. I'm out of my league, and it's said,
but she kind of just keeps pushing. She brings up
the naval officer again and all this stuff, and I'm like.
Speaker 1 (57:29):
Why do you.
Speaker 2 (57:31):
Can't this just be a hey, we got a little
too stoned and we argued, they don't take don't listen
to me, you know, It's like that's all they had
to do. But yeah, she just she picks at him again,
and then so there goes the thoughts.
Speaker 1 (57:47):
You know.
Speaker 2 (57:47):
The next day, he's buying Mandy you know, a piece
of cake and calling Mary you know, the girl that
tries to kiss him. So it's like he was, he
was out and then she just keep picking at me.
He's like, well, god damn it, I'm gonna go look
for some more more girls. He's gonna find a way
to get revenge on her somehow, Brad.
Speaker 1 (58:10):
Uh, I don't know. I I still I love this
film and I've seen it dozens of times. Yeah, and
I'm still not sure what actually is going on. Oh yeah, neither.
And I love the film for that, like you know,
because like I said, you know, like before the break,
I was talking about some of these these theories that
(58:32):
are out there, and some of them I kind of
I buy into some of it, right, but then you're like, no,
that's not what's going on. So I don't know where
to go in it.
Speaker 2 (58:40):
But it's fun to think them.
Speaker 1 (58:42):
Well, let's think about some other Kubrick stuff here. I
want to know and and listen, I'm not I'm not
gonna I'm not gonna get in the way with with
some of my picks because I've been doing this. Uh,
but this is Kubrick and this is Kocho. So Brad.
If someone was un familiar with Stanley Kubrick, they watch
Eyes Wide Shut and they are like, WHOA, I need
(59:08):
to see more of this guy's work, Brad, What three
films are you going to suggest they watch?
Speaker 2 (59:15):
Pasive Glory two thousand and one, Space Odyssey, and Doctor Strangelove.
I mean, first of all, every one of these films
is fantastic, but those three are so unique in their
own way. You know, a war drama, a space adventure
(59:35):
into the unknown, and then a comedy about nuclear war.
It's I mean, those are the those are your I'd
say the three to get your all right, know what
I'm getting into. And then once you see the whole filmography,
you know, and I mean I love everyone. I have
every one of them. I mean, and like you said,
(59:58):
you like this movie, I loves Maybe. I saw this
movie opening weekend, and when I saw it, there was
a lot of people uh giggling, laughing, hissing, not enjoying
this film because they thought they were going to see
a kind of Far and Away, the R rated version beautiful,
(01:00:18):
you know, and Tom is the hero and she's the
damsel in distress. And it wasn't that at all, you know,
I saw a lot of women going to the movie
together as being like, Oh, we're going to see this
sexy movie, and they're like, this isn't what we thought.
But I loved it when it came out, and because
it was it was very Kubrickian, you know, I was
(01:00:38):
like very Cubrician.
Speaker 1 (01:00:40):
Think about the word on the street was like before
we saw the movie, before word got out. You know, again,
this is this is very early years of the internet.
So you couldn't just watch a trailer over and over again.
Even if you watch this trailer, you don't know what
the hell's happening. But let's not forget early on people
assumed that Tom and Nicole were playing so psychiatrists that
(01:01:02):
liked to have indiscretions, we should say, with their patients
and then and then try to one up each other. Yeah,
that would have That would have been a weird movie.
Oh yeah, and I'm glad we didn't get that. I'm
glad we got we got what we got. But your list, Brad,
your three suggestions. If I could, I would remove Past
(01:01:23):
the Glory and I would insert one that you and
I saw together for the first time, a clockwork Orange,
because that film, man, I think it was the third
time I watched it where like just the light went
off or the light turned on in my brain and
was like, I get it. I know what this is
about it.
Speaker 2 (01:01:40):
Yeah, a masterclass once you. And that's the thing. It's
like he was just always ahead of the audience. And
that's what I can still put in one of his
movies and be like, get something new out of it
every time. Every time, you just have to do it,
like there's there's more there, There's more there. You gotta dig,
dig dig.
Speaker 1 (01:02:01):
This film deals in ambiguity, but I don't think there's
any ambiguity about how we feel about the film. We
both are recommending this one, right Brad, Oh yeah, yeah,
I gotta. I gotta believe that you own a copy.
Uh yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:02:16):
I have every Stanley Kubrick movie on physical media.
Speaker 1 (01:02:20):
I've got the Blu ray of this loaded with extras.
But Brad, we got a we got a Criterion four
K coming out. We we're gonna have to pick this up,
aren't we.
Speaker 2 (01:02:31):
Yeah. That's one of those that choice I would love
to have, but it's it's not on my absolute must
have right now. I mean, I think eventually all the
most of the films from Kubrick will eventually go to Criterion.
I mean The Killing and Pas the Glory that I have,
those are both Criterions. You know, I think Barry Lyndon's Criterion,
(01:02:53):
and uh, I think they'll all eventually get on that list.
But eventually, you know, I got the rest of my
life to get that, and that'll be one cool thing.
In like ten to fifteen years, it'll be like, all right,
the Criterion version of you know, Eyes Wide Shut. You
know it's a new experience.
Speaker 1 (01:03:09):
Well, Brad, I don't know about you, but uh, I
want to get I gotta I gotta get ready for
a party. I still have to go go fun, still
go out. I still have to find my cloak in
my hood. So, listeners, what do you think of Eyes
Wide Shut? Have you seen it? Is it a divisive
film for you? Is it a non traditional Christmas movie?
It is, Brad. There's Christmas lights and trees and music
(01:03:31):
all through the whole movie, So we're calling it Christmas movie.
But listeners, let us know. On social media. You'll find
us on YouTube, Facebook, Instagram, and x You can check
out a film by podcast dot com for all of
our articles, all of our reviews all of our episodes
that are streaming free. You can write to us at
a film by Podcast at gmail dot com with your questions,
(01:03:52):
comments and concerns. We may just read your response on
the show and send you some of and by swag. Brad,
I gotta say, man, Uh what a way to kick
off the month of December. Uh what a gift. Brad
Kozo returns, Yeah to a Film by Podcast and uh, man,
(01:04:13):
I know listen, I know for our Patreon members, this
is no surprise to our Patreon members. They got to
hear you. Uh last month you joined film at fifty.
You guys did uh Cuckoo's Nest, which was just brilliant,
and uh you got I know you got to you
go one or two other episodes happening in this this month.
But yeah, you gotta go back with those guys one
(01:04:34):
more time too, aren't you doing? Uh?
Speaker 2 (01:04:36):
I think we're doing three days of a condor. I'm
just yeah, waiting when they uh want to do it. Uh,
I'm game. I'm ready to watch it whenever. So yeah,
I and I love that movie too, so that that's
definitely one I want to do. But yeah, it's it's
good to be back and have you know, a couple
of years to re educate my brain in film too,
(01:04:57):
and I built up a lot of stuff I wanted
to talk about.
Speaker 1 (01:05:00):
So I was like, oh my god, hey, we're we're
we're wrapping up season season six here, so we're we're
still young. You've got you've got plenty of time, all
right to give those ideas out. So listeners to all
of you out there, following us on social media, subscribing
to our Patreon, subscribing to the YouTube channel, listening to
(01:05:23):
the show, we thank you. M m m m m
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