The Music of James Horner: Our Top 5 Favorite Scores

This week, we celebrate the career of another film composer we absolutely love. Wayne and David join Jeff to discuss the life and music of award-winning film composer James Horner, and offer their picks for our Top 5 Favorite Scores. 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
You guys realized yesterday Thursday was that was James Horner's birthday.
I do.

Speaker 2 (00:07):
Yeah, it brings back who.

Speaker 1 (00:09):
Who am I talking to? Of course, you guys know,
of course I can't. I can't believe it's already been
ten years since he's been gone that it still breaks
my heart. Man.

Speaker 2 (00:19):
You know, it's I call it the day of infamy
because uh, I remember, out of nowhere, Wayne messaged me
and let me know that James Horner had died. I
took that one very hard, guys, because Wayne, you know
what a huge Horner fan I've always been, and losing
him and his brilliance was just devastating. And it breaks

(00:40):
my heart to think all the scores we could have
had over the last ten years from him.

Speaker 3 (00:45):
Yeah, it hit me hard too. I just couldn't believe it.
So I know, I was watching it minute by minute
when the news was coming in. That's I know. I
had to text you immediately.

Speaker 1 (00:57):
Yep, I was thinking back. You know. Earlier this year,
we invited our friend Chuck Bryan from the Cinematic Flashback
podcast to join us for an episode discussing film composer
Jerry Goldsmith. You guys offered up a top five list
of his scores, which I thought was awesome. We received
some incredible feedback from that episode, including some from a

(01:21):
composer and orchestrator, Lee Phillips.

Speaker 2 (01:24):
Yeah, yeah, it was fantastic.

Speaker 3 (01:27):
He does such a great job, you know, in all
the recreations he does, he hasn't done any James Horner.
But just yesterday they went in and re recorded the
score to The Chairman, which I am really looking forward
to hearing that they are bringing back music back alive
that has been lost for years. It's incredible.

Speaker 2 (01:47):
I'm glad we have somebody that does that. I really do.

Speaker 1 (01:50):
I remember how thrilling it was just to see someone
of that magnitude. Yeah, you know, give us some feedback.
I loved it, you know way, and I know you
were excited when I was. Guys, we love our directors
on this show, but it's always a treat when we
can discuss our love for film composers. And no one

(02:10):
better suited to have this conversation than you two. So
let's talk about the music of James Horner with our
top five favorite scores. Hello, everybody, I'm Jeff Johnson.

Speaker 3 (02:47):
I'm David Burns and I'm Wayne Whiten, and this is a.

Speaker 1 (02:52):
Film by podcast. We are taking a moment to celebrate
the birthday of one of our favorite composers with a
with a little Top five episode. I love when we, guys,
I love when we do these things. We don't talk
enough about composers. I don't.

Speaker 2 (03:11):
We don't we do well.

Speaker 1 (03:14):
And that's I mean, that's kind of changing though. This
season we have started these what we've been calling scoring
sessions with Wayne. You know, he he kind of pops
into the episode and just gives us like a nice,
you know, five six minute blurb about the composer of
whatever film we're talking about. Wayne, I honestly don't remember

(03:34):
which which one was first. I just remember it was
a big hit. Oh what what was it?

Speaker 3 (03:39):
I do? It was Jerry Goldsmith's Alien.

Speaker 1 (03:41):
Oh well, they have, of course one of.

Speaker 3 (03:43):
His top scores. I really have a lot of fun
doing them. It gives me a chance to really sit
down and re listen to these scores very closely and
break them down to what I like and how they
were made. It's it's fascinating to me, and I hope
it's fascinating to sell the listeners.

Speaker 1 (04:01):
Well, all I know is I thought was a nice
addition to that film at forty five episode that you
you and Scott did, Dave, But then everyone started raving
about you know, thanks for like who's Wayne? Where's Wayne? Letayne?
We want one more way? Yeah, uh so, careful listeners, listeners.

(04:24):
We we are working with Wayne's schedule. He's he's pretty
busy on phaser set to stunt, but we're working to
get him more involved with the film by episode so
we can get more, uh more of this information on
some of these composers. Wayne, It's a no secret. I
know we've got Amber and I are gonna be covering

(04:46):
Wolf Kane Peterson's The Perfect Storm here very soon. And uh,
I know you've already agreed to that because that score
is by who Wayne.

Speaker 3 (04:57):
I wonder by James Horner of course, one of his
great scores.

Speaker 1 (05:02):
Yeah, uh do you guys, let's go back in time
for a quick second.

Speaker 2 (05:07):
Mm hmm.

Speaker 1 (05:09):
Do you remember the film or television score that made
you take notice of James Horner.

Speaker 2 (05:16):
So, my very first introduction to James Horner was obviously Willow,
but I didn't take notice of him because I really
at that age, I wasn't into composers or who composed
the music for movies. But the one that really made
me fall in love with James Horner with clearly nineteen
eighty ninth Glory.

Speaker 1 (05:36):
Okay, Wayne, what what what was it that made you
sit up and take notice of James Horner?

Speaker 3 (05:41):
Well, I loved music scores at a very early age.
I own the LPs to you know, Empire Strikes Back
and Star Trek the Motion Picture, and I also had
when we When I first saw Star Trek two, I
begged my grandma to go out and buy me the
record to the score I wasn't aware of. I mean,

(06:02):
I saw the name on it, obviously it was James Horner,
and I owned Star Trek three, But it wasn't until
it wasn't until Glory came out that I really started
taking notice to him specifically as a composer, and started
checking out some of his other works and buying some
of his other CDs.

Speaker 1 (06:19):
It may surprise you, guys to know that Glory was
not what made me stand up and take notice of
James Owner. And I get you want to take it. Yeah,
take a guess.

Speaker 2 (06:29):
I'm gonna say, Aliens, you that's.

Speaker 1 (06:33):
A great guess. But Uh, I'm gonna go a little
bit earlier than aliens.

Speaker 3 (06:37):
Let me take a guess. What could it have been?
Forty eight hours?

Speaker 1 (06:42):
Wayne, you were so close, you were on the money.
And here's why I will say you're close.

Speaker 2 (06:47):
Arnold fot Thinger is in it about guys.

Speaker 1 (06:49):
It's nineteen eighty seven. I'm eleven years old and I'm
watching the new Arnold Schwarzenegger movie that just debuted on
the Movie Channel. And as amazing as it is to
see Arnold carrying a chainsaw in one hand and what
appears to be a full sized tree on his shoulder
down this mountain, the scene is isn't near as impressive

(07:13):
without James Horner's awesome music in nineteen eighty five's Commando
and Wayne, You're you're kind of on the money because

(07:33):
his score for Commando and his score for Forty eight
Hours are very, very similar. You know, we got those
steel drums and those those heavy feats.

Speaker 3 (07:44):
I knew it had to be one of his electronics
scores around that time. I knew it had to be.

Speaker 2 (07:48):
Yeah, I should have get Ronaldo doing it.

Speaker 1 (07:50):
Yeah, I think I think my mom and dad were
wise enough to Eddie Murphy and Nick Nolty to know, Yeah,
you're too young to watch more it out, but you know,
Arnold just you know, running around shooting bad guys and
saying saying one liners that he's.

Speaker 2 (08:07):
Fine, you can do that.

Speaker 1 (08:09):
Little do they know about all the violence and nudity
and language of Commando. But I'm glad that they were
they were looking the other way on that one, because
I love his music. That music is just awesome, you know.
And the tight shots of Schwarzenegger's boots, then his bicep
holding up the log, and then the sweat on his
brown I'm telling you, Horner's music just makes that scene.

Speaker 2 (08:33):
It's awesome. Guys.

Speaker 1 (08:36):
Let's talk a little bit about James Horner before we
get into your top five lists. James Roy Horner was
an American film composer known for his integration of choral
and electronic elements alongside traditional orchestrations. Wayne was he one
of the first to do this, maybe one of the
more prominent ones.

Speaker 3 (08:56):
You think, Oh yeah, I think so, I really do.

Speaker 1 (09:00):
He began playing piano and violin at the age of five,
and his love of music led him to London, where
in his early years he attended the Royal College of
Music to study with the influential Hungarian Austrian composer George Legidy.
I hope I'm saying that. Wayne's nodding, So I think
I said that right. He furthered his studies in America

(09:24):
at Verde Valley School, the University of Southern California, and UCLA,
where he completed his doctorate, and after several scoring assignments
with the American Film Institute in the nineteen seventies, he
taught music theory for a time at UCLA before setting
his sites on film scoring. Now, I mean, we're talking

(09:45):
such an impressive body of work, and when I found
this out, where we all got to start somewhere?

Speaker 2 (09:49):
Right, Dave, Yes, we do.

Speaker 1 (09:52):
His first credits as a feature film composer. You guys,
I'm sure you guys know this. Who wants to give
our our listeners the famous B movie director and producer
that he was working for.

Speaker 2 (10:06):
That's going to be Roger Corman.

Speaker 1 (10:08):
Roger Corman.

Speaker 2 (10:10):
That'll Beyond the Stars.

Speaker 1 (10:11):
Yeah, well so Batt'll Beyond the Store Stars in nineteen
eighty and one of my favorite Corman movies from nineteen eighty,
Humanoids from the Deep, The Deep.

Speaker 3 (10:22):
Yep, that's really great movie and great score.

Speaker 1 (10:25):
Yeah. Yeah, I don't know what it is. I saw
that movie on Prime for the first time a couple
of years ago. I was like, Oh, this looks like
it could be cool. Man, is that is it out there?
As surprised as I was with some of the stuff
that's going on in that movie, I was surprised to
hear a James Order soundtrack.

Speaker 3 (10:42):
So you got to start somewhere, and you got a
lot of people. A lot of people started with Roger Corman.

Speaker 2 (10:47):
And we love Corman.

Speaker 1 (10:48):
Yeah, Corman's awesome.

Speaker 3 (10:50):
I mean, you know, we talked to me and David
recently talked about Death Race two thousand.

Speaker 2 (10:55):
Man.

Speaker 3 (10:56):
The composer there, which was Paul Chahara. James Horner studied
under him while he was at the University of California.

Speaker 1 (11:03):
Oh, I didn't know that. I also didn't know that
you're gonna be such a fan of Death Ray two thousand, Wayne.
I've I remember when Scott was unavailable for a Dave
as that was the one of the more recent a
film at fifty episodes you did for our Patreon and
I just remember thinking, Man, Wayne, I hadn't seen it
since I was a kid. When I was watching it

(11:24):
that night on tuby, I was like, man, Wayne is
gonna be so upset with me for making him watch this?
And then you guys just were eating it up. I can. Yeah,
definitely a fun one. Yep. Horner worked on more than
one hundred and sixty film and television productions, all of
which I'm sure it can be found in both Wayne
and Dave's collections.

Speaker 3 (11:45):
Of course they can, especially David. Now, Dave is the big,
big James Horner fan. He's got a lot more Horner
scores than I do.

Speaker 2 (11:53):
I think I'm only missing a couple, to be honest
with you, Yeah.

Speaker 1 (11:56):
I believe that. He was nominated for ten Academy of Awards,
winning two of them nominated, they all were ripped off.
Nominated for four BAFT Awards, ten Golden Globe Awards, of
which he won. To guys, he won three Satellite Awards,
three Saturn Awards, and from nineteen eighty eight through twenty

(12:19):
eleven he took home twelve Grammy Awards.

Speaker 2 (12:24):
Most Impressive, Most Impressive I know.

Speaker 3 (12:26):
Yeah, and like Goldsmith. His win for the Academy Award
was on one film, and that's Titanic both of that
he won was on Titanic, just like Goldsmith's only award
was on the Omen. It's it's injustice in my opinion.

Speaker 1 (12:42):
At least with his with Titanic. It's I think that's
got to be like the I think that's the highest
selling film score all time.

Speaker 3 (12:50):
It is, right, yeah, And I remember that was a
rough year too, because at the Academy Awards he was
going up against Goldsmith, Williams and Elfman at the same time.

Speaker 1 (13:01):
That's just some murderer's row Man.

Speaker 2 (13:03):
That is the super Bowl of super bowls of comparison.

Speaker 1 (13:06):
Good Lord Horner was an avid aviation fan and a
qualified pilot who owned several small planes. Sadly, on June
twenty second, twenty fifteen, he was killed in a single
fatality crash while flying his short Tucano turboprop aircraft. He
was sixty one years old. His final three film scores,

(13:29):
twenty fifteen's South Paul, twenty fifteen's The thirty Three, and
twenty sixteen's The Magnificent Seven, were all completed and released posthumously. Guys,
I am excited to hear these picks for the For
what you guys are going to say are the top

(13:50):
five favorite, top five best. But before we get to that,
let's say a quick break to hear from some of
the sponsors. All right, welcome back. We are talking about
composer James Horner and what we feel are his top

(14:11):
five best, his top five favorites. I don't know how
you guys are gonna narrow this down to just five each,
but I'll tell you what you know. I'm not a
fan of these, but I will offer one honorable mention
one not four. No Hoffman's no, no, I have I
have one pick that I'm gonna divide into four answers. No,

(14:34):
we're not doing that.

Speaker 3 (14:35):
This was rough too, choosing with five. It was not easy,
but these are my top five.

Speaker 1 (14:41):
All right, Well, Wayne, let's start with your top five.

Speaker 3 (14:46):
All right. I know everyone here knows this, but for
those of you are listening, I am a huge comic
book fan and a collector, so it's really no surprise
that you know this is one of my top five
because one of my favorite comic creators was the late
Dave Stevens, and that makes my number five pick to

(15:07):
be the Rocketeer.

Speaker 2 (15:09):
Uh.

Speaker 3 (15:09):
For me, the Rocketeer will always stand as one of
the best superhero films ever made. It's just a it's
a classic story, very similar to the Golden Age superhero
comics at the time. You know, wonderful director Joe Donson, Johnson,
great cast. I just I really love this film. I
loved it when I saw it in theater. And James

(15:31):
Horner's score is just perfect for this. I mean, I
really really love this score and I listened to it
very frequently. You know, It's got so many great highlights
to it.

Speaker 4 (15:44):
You know.

Speaker 3 (15:44):
There there there's the beautiful love theme. Uh, there is
the the exciting Q called the Flying Circus. There's this
incredible piece called Rendezvous the Observatory, which is a really
lengthy build up that's a lot of his great themes
and styles. And then of course the end titles and

(16:06):
in credits that highlights everything and really showcases one of
the best themes that he created. It's a fun listen
that never bores me. It just tells the story through
the music without really ever overpowering the visuals that are
on screen.

Speaker 1 (16:24):
You know.

Speaker 3 (16:24):
Fortunately there's been a CD release of this. Back when
the film came out nineteen ninety one, it was very short,
in my opinion, had a lot of the songs that
I really weren't that interested in. But thankfully, back in
twenty sixteen and Trata released the complete score to this
with everything on there, as well as twenty minutes of
never before released music and a two disc presentation. And

(16:48):
it's a beautiful remaster because I always felt the original
release was very muddy and very quiet, so they went
back to the original tapes and we mastered it so
that we can hear it exactly as Horner had prepared
it and had intended us to hear it.

Speaker 1 (17:14):
I absolutely love the music in this. It was last
season we actually covered The Rocket too, we did, and
I've I've debated whether I should start George lucasing some
of our older episodes to add new content, and certainly
a Wayne White at scoring session for that movie would
would be perfect. But well, now we have it, so

(17:37):
I'll leave that one alone.

Speaker 2 (17:39):
That The Rocket here is always on my playlist. I
absolutely love this and I'm not surprised Wayne that you
picked this one. This one was a struggle for me
to lead out of my top five, but it just
I had to leave it out. But I mean, again,
if we were doing a top ten, it definitely would
be there because the themes in this that movie that
James Horner gave us is You Are Correct, are one

(17:59):
of the best themes he has given us over the years.
And to hear that just get pumped up like it does.
It really puts you in a good mood and wants
you to be a superhero. There's no doubt about that.

Speaker 1 (18:10):
Yeah, a little surprised. I would I would have picked
you to have this one on your top five. And
I gotta say, with one hundred and sixty piece of
music out there for you guys to choose from, I
didn't expect a lot of cross pollination except for one.
I know there's one that I'd be shocked if it's

(18:33):
if it's not high on both your lists or the
number one for both of you. But the Rocketeer, fantastic
pick there, Wayne, Yep, David, what is your number five?

Speaker 2 (18:45):
This is a film that kind of surprised me with
its music in it, and it's it's a good movie.
It's two thousand and one's Enemy at the Gates for
my number five. It's a film about a sniper at
the Battle of Stalingrad. It's got Jude Law, Harris Rigel Wires,
Ron Perlman, and Joseph Fines. There is obviously a lot
of Russian vocals and sounds to the score, since this

(19:07):
film entirely takes place in Russia during World War Two.
But there is one particular piece in this soundtrack that
Horner has done, and it is a rather lengthy one.
It's over fifteen minutes long, but it is just absolutely brilliant.
It starts off slow and dramatic, allowing the story to

(19:28):
breathe like we are just fading into a lovely dream,
and it comes crashing in with a loud thunder, waking
us up to make it realize we are not asleep,
but in the middle of a war. It then pulls
us into a beautiful thematic melody that just flows, but
we keep getting this thunderous eruption so that we do
not fall asleep again. It perpetates through the score with
almost frightening swells, as if we are falling and falling,

(19:50):
only to catch ourselves and be joldered back into what
is going on around us. The music continues to build
and build, showing its raw emotional strength, giving us an
incredible theme and burst of energy erupting further into Russian
vocalist until slowing up to allow us once again catch
our breath, but not for long, as it starts rolling again,
beating drums, signaling we are moving further into the fight,

(20:12):
and it flows into some amazing choir vocalist. It does

(20:46):
slow down again, but builds into a feverish pitch crashing
down on us where we are full blown fighting, until
eventually slowing up into that beautiful choir again. And of
course I'm talking about the track that's called the River
crossing to Stalingrive. Beautiful piece, very very long, but man
as it just hold your attention from beginning to end.

(21:07):
The second piece in this is Tanya in credits, which
a lot of composers use in credits to just go
crazy with their scores and their themes, and he really
does it here. He gives us it's very emotional and
perfectly fits in what we needed at the end of
this film. Again we get Russian music blended with Horner's

(21:29):
main theme, allowing us to process everything we have heard
and we have felt emotionally. Again, his use of choir,
which you will see a theme and a lot of
his scores is just hauntingly beautiful.

Speaker 3 (21:43):
Yeah, I'm not surprised. I knew this would be on
your top five because you know, we all have this
one score of each composer that we go back to
all the time, that we talk about that we just
absolutely love to listen to over and over again. And
I knew this was yours, and rightfully so, because it's
such a powerful, powerful score. That's it's it pretty much

(22:07):
symbolizes James Horner in the two thousands. It's his sound
that he created for that. But it's it. I mean,
you go through so many different emotions through it makes
you feel anxious and excited and fearful. It's just it
for scores to be that powerful, to bring that many
emotions out to you just listening to it. It's it's
a masterpiece. And just like I said with the Rocket

(22:30):
here and a lot with a lot of his scores,
he really tells the story just through the music, and
this is one of the best examples of that. So
no surprise it deserves on everybody's top list.

Speaker 2 (22:41):
So frightening story about the soundtrack on this one. So
when I bought it, I played it, played it, played it,
played it over and over and over, and I lost it.
I don't don't. I didn't know where it went. I
had the case, the CD was gone, and it scared
me because it got out of print. You couldn't find
it anywhere. Yeah it is, and you couldn't. You couldn't
purchase it anymore. And so I let it go and

(23:04):
it bothered me so for a couple of years. And
so one day my sony seen Walkman fell out and
it popped up.

Speaker 3 (23:12):
And don't you love that when you when you find
those things, Because I've had a few scores where I
put in the wrong case or whatever over the time,
and it's gone for years, and then you finance like,
oh my gosh, yes, thank you, and then you put
it right in and listen to it right away exactly.

Speaker 1 (23:29):
Meat is great as long as you can keep track
of it right absolutely day. I'll tell you that that
that score has so many beautiful pieces of music in it.
One of them my hot take. People people ask me,
I'll tell you I think one of the hottest and

(23:50):
most tastely done sex scenes in any movie happens to
be an enemy at the gates, which sounds weird to say,
but his music in that moment makes that moment I
think it's just passionate. So yeah, absolutely, Well, speaking of passion, Dave,

(24:12):
why don't we hang with you here a little bit longer.
Let's go to number four and what do you got?
What do you got for your number four pick?

Speaker 2 (24:20):
So I was gonna leave this one off the list
because it's just so popular, But when I really drilled
down to it and thought about it, I had to
put it in my top five. Wayne somebody mentioned, I
believe it was Wayne. It won two Academy Awards for
James Horner, who well earned those Academy awards. Of course,
I'm talking about nineteen ninety seven's Titanic, Jeff. You mentioned

(24:44):
it holds the record for the most album sold for
a cinematic film, which is absolutely amazing. I know a
lot of that was because of the song by Celine
Dion My Heart Will Go On, But James Horner did
work on that song, so he deserved every bit of
that credit. And that song in itself just brings in
such a sense of memories, lost passion and tragedy, and

(25:08):
you immediately put you into the place in history of
losing that kind of Titanic, losing a loved one, and
I can see why that became so popular, so famous,
and why it won the Academy Award, because I mean,
it's just a beautiful song, beautifully composed and of course
beautifully song by Celine Dionni. But further on, you know,

(25:29):
you've got the track called Him to the Scene, which
is this very sorrowful theme which truly shows the tragic
side of what happens to the Titanic. You know, it's
a theme that goes throughout this film, and it's something
that we know is coming, and James Horner just did

(25:50):
such an incredible job of building that through his music,
giving you that love of the history, the heritage of
this ship, but also allowing this fictional story romance that
we're witnessing on the Titanic. Blending it with all of
that just brings out such the story into his music

(26:12):
and it really comes off strong. But the other one
that I absolutely love is called Death of Titanic. This

(26:38):
one the music and I'm going to use this word
of a lot, but it really shows the brilliance of
James Horner because his music here descends with the ship.
If you listen to that music, it is actually, you know,
the music is descending down as the ship is sinking
into that water, and for a composer to pull that

(27:02):
off just shows how incredibly in tune he is with
the story he's trying to tell. And that is why
this is one of my favorite pieces on there. And
it's just an amazing score, which is why I had
to put it in my top five.

Speaker 3 (27:18):
Is it a cop out?

Speaker 2 (27:19):
Absolutely, it's not, because it is a beautiful score. Yes,
he uses the anvil a lot because as we know,
James Horner loves that anvil and it works, it really
does in this film, and he pulls it off extremely well.

Speaker 3 (27:34):
He deserved that Academy Award for this film. I mean,
you know, they had no choice but give it to him.
I mentioned earlier that he was up against Williamston, Goldsmith
and Elfman, and they all had really good scores, if
I remember, they were a good Will, Hunting, La Confidential,
and Amistad. But Titanic was such a huge film, not

(27:56):
just in length but in success that it changed the
way we looked at film and film music. Again, just
like Williams had done in Jaws and Goldsmith did the omen,
they had to give him the award, but it was deserved.
It was really deserved because it is an incredible score
that you know, and it was a best selling album too.

(28:16):
It has been finally it is out there to get
as a four disc complete set, and it's monumental. It's
it's kind of overpowering sometimes when you look at how
much music he had to write for this film, but
it's definitely worth getting. It's it's an incredible listen.

Speaker 2 (28:33):
So it's the Titanic of an album.

Speaker 3 (28:35):
It means, yes, exactly.

Speaker 1 (28:38):
I'll tell you one thing I like about the Titanic score,
and we haven't really touched on it yet because you know,
like we said, he he likes his electronic integration with
with choral motifs, but he also I feel like a
lot of his stuff had like a Celtic music type
of vibe and this one's this one's definitely in there.

(29:00):
So that's that's one of the things I've always loved
about it. Well, guys, no real electronic discussion yet from
the scores that you picked, you guys are pretty much
staying historical at this point. But maybe Wayne I'll change
that up with his number four pick.

Speaker 3 (29:18):
Nope, I will not, because I always felt that Horner
was it's really at his best when he's writing for
like sweeping, dramatic emotional films, especially historicals, and one of
my top favorites of that genre, which I'm choosing as
my number four pick, is nineteen ninety four's Legends of
the Fall Oho, directed by Edward Zwick, which is a

(29:41):
name you're going to hear again on my list a
couple more times. This film started Brad Pitt, Anthony Hopkins,
Julie Armond, and Andrew Thomas. Legends of the Fall represents
the beginning of what, in my opinion, is a new
musical sound of Horner's, a defining moment in his career
where he begins to experiment with new styles and sounds

(30:04):
which would develop into the sound that he would continue
through the second half of his career. You hear it
in films like Brave Heart Paul thirteen. Enemy at the
Gates is another great example of it, and especially in
Avatar and Titanic. Legends of the Fall is a huge, sprawling,
theme filled epic. You know, it's a perfect representation of

(30:25):
a score for the American West, the horrors of war,
overwhelming love. It's just incredible the work that he put
into it and He's created two very different themes for
his score. The first one, which we hear in the
opening title, you know, has an atmospheric build up before

(30:45):
the main theme even kicks in, which starts as a
solo trumpet and then expands into the full orchestra. It's
just one of those themes that grip shift from the beginning.

Speaker 2 (30:56):
You know.

Speaker 3 (30:56):
It's romantic and just absolutely beautiful. And then there's that
second film theme that is called Twilight mist. We first
hear that theme in the Q called the Ludlow's and
it's performed on solo piano, which I love the piano,
and this is a great Horner piano piece. The theme
is a warmer and slightly folksy feel that we hear

(31:19):
as a song sung by Henry Thomas with his family
gathered around the piano. Plus the two cues to the
Boys and Samuel's death gives us an emotion of horrors
of war. It's easily two of the most powerful and
dramatic action cues of Horner's career. It's just overwhelming in emotion.
These these pieces of music bring to you. I love

(31:43):
this score. It's one of those scores that I can
listen to over and over again, just for the great
musical storytelling that he brings. And it's been released twice,
back during the original release of the film in nineteen
ninety five by Epic Records and again as a complete
score in twenty twenty by Introtter Records, again two CD

(32:06):
sets with every note that Horner wrote for this including
music that he had to cut out of the film
at the beginning. It's, without a doubt, one of the
most underrated scores in the nineteen nineties in my opinion,
and one of James Horner's finests that is often overlooked
lost within a lot of the blockbuster films that came
out around that time.

Speaker 1 (32:26):
Well, guys, you've got three picks to go. But before
we get to him, I wouldn't mind talking a little
bit about some of his other work. I'm talking about
tell let's can we talk television for a quick minute? Sure,
because I have to think. I know he didn't do
a lot, but I'm guessing you guys probably have like
a favorite television piece.

Speaker 2 (32:48):
Probably saying Wayne as Wayne, But yeah, I think we do.

Speaker 1 (32:51):
What do we talk? What do you got here, Dave?

Speaker 2 (32:53):
I'm obviously talking about nineteen eighty five Amazing Stories episode album, OJOB.
I really like that one a lot, and I'm glad
he's to be a part of the Amazing Stories because
a lot of the great composers were a part of
that TV series, almost all of them, almost all. Yeah,
so it's very very fitting that James Horner had a
piece of that pie. I know he did a lot

(33:14):
of television made for movies and stuff like that, but
I'm always on that Amazing Stories one.

Speaker 3 (33:19):
Yeah, he's one that didn't work too much in television
because you know, like a lot of composers which got
their start in television, he didn't. He got to start
in motion pictures and kind of flew with that, but
he did touch television every now and then, mostly for
TV movies. There isn't really that much has been released,
but Alamo Job is one of of my favorites too
as well. I love Amazing Stories. It's one of my

(33:40):
favorite TV series, and the musical scores, which have all
been released on CD are just incredible. But I also
want to talk about the only TV series that Horner
worked on as a regular composer, and it's a series
that none of you will remember, but I have to
bring it up, and that's nineteen ninety two s Fish.

Speaker 1 (33:58):
Please say Fish Police, Fish Police.

Speaker 3 (34:02):
You heard me correct? You know I was going to
ask you if you remembered it, but apparently you don't.
I don't know, but I do. It didn't last very long.
It was only three episodes long before they canceled it.
But it was an animated series. It was created by
Steve Moncouse who was a comic book writer, and it
was based on his comic book that he created called

(34:23):
fish Police. It was a it was fun but unusually
adult series had voice of John Ritter. Tim Curry was
in it at all. Yeah, it had a great cast.
It just did The writing was a little bit too
risky for that time.

Speaker 1 (34:43):
You know.

Speaker 3 (34:43):
It came out during that cartoon craze of the nineteen
nineties after the Simpsons. You know, everybody was trying to
do adult cartoons but quickly pulled. But Horner's music and
his his theme that he created to it is very
similar to the work that he did for like The
Land Before Time and American Tale. You know, you can
definite tell he's getting into his his his cartoon stage.
But it's a wonderful sports about the only thing that

(35:04):
is wonderful about that series, But I have to bring
it up, just even if one person out there goes
out and the YouTuber types fish place up. I did
my job.

Speaker 1 (35:17):
Okay, well, i'll tell you. I know, when we did
our Bill Paxton episode back in May, we kind of
brought up the whole Tales from the Crypt episode that
he did. That's just which is just mind blowing to
see a young Bill Paxton and Tales from the Crypt.
But Horner did some composing for Tales from the Crypt.

(35:38):
He's got an episode or two, so I thought, I
definitely am going to go back and watch that one
just to hear it. The CBS Evening News Wayne.

Speaker 3 (35:46):
Yeah, oh that was big at the time. When was
that two thousand and six? Yep, yeah, I think. Well, see,
back in the nineteen eighties, NBC had wanted to change
their sound and they hired John william to write all
of the themes for all of their shows at their
new shows, and he went and he wrote, oh god,

(36:07):
probably I think three or four dozen different themes for them,
and we still hear those. And I think CBS was
looking to do the same thing, and they hired James
Horner and it was big. I mean they even interviewed
him in a huge, lovely interview that he did on TV.
I remember sitting in the car dealership waiting for my
Cardief fixed us I was watching it. But his music

(36:27):
is great and it's still used today.

Speaker 1 (36:29):
Now another project I wish I could have seen. I
could have experienced this, As you both know, sadly, I
have never been to Disney World. But can we talk
about Captain eo Oh.

Speaker 2 (36:43):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (36:44):
The Disney Attraction, which premiered in nineteen eighty six, which
we all know is a great year in film, ran
until nineteen ninety eight. This was basically it was an
attraction that incorporated a three D short film into the experience.
It's directed by Francis Ford Coppola, stars Michael Jackson and

(37:08):
Angelica Houston. And guys, I may not have seen or
experienced this attraction, but I am familiar with the music.
It features an incredible electronic fuse score by James Horner.
So I got to ask, I have either of you
did you ride this ride or this attraction?

Speaker 2 (37:26):
Did?

Speaker 1 (37:27):
Everyone's not? So I'm the odd man out a little bit. Sorry, Yeah,
tell me a little bit about like what's the experience
like or what was it like?

Speaker 2 (37:35):
Man, I was I was like a finger in high school.
I don't know if I can remember that I.

Speaker 3 (37:38):
Was the same way I was. That would have been
back in nineteen eighty nine. I remember really liking it.
I remember really liking the music to it. Gosh, the
music's not ever been released on CD or in any format.
I know a lot of people are calling for it.

Speaker 2 (37:54):
It's such a short little piece, but Skron feel to it.

Speaker 3 (37:58):
Yeah, they can attack it on the end of one
of the other scores or something, you know. But I
remember enjoying it. I it wasn't the best thing, best ride,
you know. I was looking forward more to the Haunted Mansion,
but you know, it was still I'm glad I went
and SAWID, but I wish I could remember more about it.

Speaker 2 (38:16):
Yes, I'm here. I don't remember too much on it.

Speaker 3 (38:18):
I just remember Michael Jackson. Do you remember the screen? Yes?

Speaker 1 (38:23):
But beyond that, yeah, yeah, one last thing and then
we'll get back to your top five. And this is
for a good buddy, Chuck Bryan, because it was it
was the Goldsmith episode you guys did back in February.
That was like that maybe's kind of God, What is that?
Is that accurate? Is that real? Uh? Let me play
something here for you, because I'm sure you both recognize this. Yep,

(38:59):
everyone's not their heads. Universal Pictures fanfare from nineteen ninety.

Speaker 2 (39:04):
Yep.

Speaker 1 (39:05):
I just I love the fact that we've got amazing
opposers doing this stuff, because you know, you hear these things,
these these interests for all these movies, and you just
never expect that. At least I never expected it. It's
a it's a Jerry Goldsmith or a James Horner, this one,
I really, I really enjoy it. I'll give you a
bonus question here, though, can either can either of you

(39:26):
tell me what was the first movie that Universal featured
this fanfare in front of?

Speaker 4 (39:35):
Oh?

Speaker 2 (39:36):
Geez, it would have been in ninety.

Speaker 1 (39:38):
Yeah, you know it's nineteen ninety. And as you guys
scratch your heads, at least the listeners are getting a
chance to go, wait, I think I.

Speaker 3 (39:44):
Know this, so I justly I can't remember what films
came out by Universal in nineteen ninety.

Speaker 1 (39:50):
I'm out, You're okay, Wayne, you want to take a
stab at it.

Speaker 3 (39:54):
I can't even think of what. I can't think of
one that came out by Universal way.

Speaker 1 (39:58):
You just go back in time. Let's see if you
can come up with it.

Speaker 2 (40:01):
I am.

Speaker 3 (40:02):
I saw so many films, but I don't remember which
a Universal film that.

Speaker 1 (40:06):
I h Dave did he totally missed that one of
it flew right over his head. Uh, we're talking about
back to the Future there.

Speaker 3 (40:18):
Oh, of course, of course.

Speaker 1 (40:23):
Start three starring our good buddy Tom Wilson.

Speaker 2 (40:26):
It's right, good buddy.

Speaker 1 (40:28):
Al right, back to the top five, Wayne, what is
your number three pick?

Speaker 3 (40:35):
Okay, this score may sound like a bit of an
odd ball for me to choose, but this really is
one of my guilty pleasures. I love this score, probably
ten times more than I love the film, and I
can listen to it over and over again. So my
pick for number three is Ron Howard's nineteen eighty five
comedy drama Cocoon.

Speaker 2 (40:56):
Oh good one. All right.

Speaker 3 (40:58):
This would be Ron howard first collaboration with James Horner,
and we all know that would blossom into a great
friendship and bring us many, many more incredible scores in
the years afterwards. You know, his Cocoon. His work on
Cocoon raised the bar for him, in my opinion, set
the standard for his future career and his definitive sounds
in the eighties. I mentioned earlier about the sound of

(41:20):
the nineties and two thousands. This was the sound of
the eighties.

Speaker 2 (41:24):
You know.

Speaker 3 (41:24):
It's written for a full orchestra.

Speaker 1 (41:27):
You know.

Speaker 3 (41:27):
The score switches from small solo piano performances to exciting
action sequences and concludes with some of the most soaring
and majestic writing in the Horner's entire career. The score
is built around a central theme, and it's called theme
from cocun Believe It or Not, which yeah, in itself

(41:48):
can be broken into three distinct melodies. First, there's a
tingling southern note prelude theme opening it up, followed by
an elegant horn solo similar to the style he used
for his animated children's films later on, and concludes with
a brass let orchestral theme showing off a dramatic side
of the score and similar to the nineteen nineties historical

(42:08):
dramas that he would become known for. And I also
want to mention the que the Chase, which is a
wonderful early Horner style piece of action music. It features
echoes of his star Trek scores with wild string runs,
dramatic brass hits. This is, without question, one of my
favorite cues of the entire score. Just it symbolizes everything
that I love about James Horner in the nineteen eighty

(42:29):
So he let all his unbridled musical passion out with
his score, bringing us a fun, but emotional, odd but
sunning score to such a quirky motion picture. I mean,
that's the best way I can describe it. The score
has no business being this beautiful. But you know we're
talking about a master film composer delivering, you know, a

(42:51):
very heartfelt, emotional punch with this score. So you know
another one.

Speaker 1 (42:56):
I just I love this.

Speaker 3 (42:57):
I can listen to this over and over again. Thankfully
it's out there to listen to. Complete. It was released
by in Trotter Records. They love James Horner and we
love them for that. They gave us the full one
hour and two minutes score, beautifully remastering from the original
three track tapes.

Speaker 2 (43:16):
Just.

Speaker 3 (43:18):
Not my favorite movie, but one of my favorite scores.

Speaker 2 (43:22):
Why not film?

Speaker 3 (43:24):
No, it's not, it's not. I don't get me wrong,
I don't hate the film, but it's it's just when
I was watching it back in the eighties and I
I got dragged at the theater by by my mom
to see this this film. You know, as a kid,
it just wasn't one that gripped me. And I've watched
it many times since then. I appreciate it more now,
and I appreciate Ron Howard's directing it a lot more now.

(43:45):
But it's it's not one of my favorite films that
that Horner's score, but it's one of my favorite corner scores.

Speaker 1 (43:53):
Well, speaking of favorites, you guys have yet to list
one of my all time favorite, so, you know, starting
a little nervous, but Dave give me your number three pick.

Speaker 2 (44:08):
So I'm going to go back in time again to
a historical piece. I love my historical films, as you
guys are very aware, and of course I'm talking about
nineteen ninety five's Braveheart, directed by Mel Gibson. There it
is James Horner's use of Celtic music throughout this film,

(44:30):
blending it with a theme of love, romance and sacrifice,
is just incredible throughout this film. It's a long film,
but there's a lot of good music that is scattered
throughout this film. Nominated for Best Score in nineteen ninety
six where it was ripped off not winning the Academy Award.

Speaker 3 (44:53):
I agree.

Speaker 2 (44:54):
I think it was The Postman that won that year,
which is ridiculous.

Speaker 4 (45:00):
Havn't cost a movie, No, the one that foreign film.
Oh Il Postino, Yes, El Postino, Yes, it is.

Speaker 1 (45:10):
It is.

Speaker 2 (45:11):
So there's a couple of pieces in this film, and
you know, it's a long film, a lot of music,
but there's a couple pieces that really stand out to me.
One of them is actually a very short piece. It's
called a Gift of a Thistle, and this is the
scene when William Wallace is a young boy. He lost
his brother and his father, and it's the burial scene

(45:34):
and the little girl comes up and hands him a gift,
which is a thistle. The slow dramatic score that really
gives this powerful performance of this young Wallace who can
only reach out and take this flower and a tear
rolls out of his eye. This piece of music just
echoes the boy's feelings and the love of another who

(45:56):
is handing him this gift in a time of loss.
The build up of the main score, that is the
theme we hear throughout, is a gut punch to us.
Emotionally and just prepares us for the drama and horrors
of war that lays ahead. Again, this is such a
small piece in the film, but my god, is it
just gut punching. There's a lot of winds, strings, violin,

(46:18):
which is my favorite instrument, by the way, Wayne, I
think you know that. But the other piece that I
absolutely love is for the Love of a Princess. I
don't know what orchestra it was, but this was redone
at a concert a few years ago and I listened
to it via YouTube, and man, I tell you that

(46:39):
the tears were just flowing, not only for it's a
beautiful piece, but the fact that we lost James Torner.
It is just slow beating of the drums followed by
the introduction of the winds and full blown into the
violins and strings is just so emotional, and again it
just brings out that thought of romance, love and wonder
pieces that you hear in his other scores obviously, and

(47:00):
you're gonna hear echoes of that a few years later
in Titanic. You can just see that starting to come
out in his music and getting Titanic in nineteen ninety seven,
you can go back and just see how Horner was
building up to getting that Academy Award. Yes, he should
have got it for this, and I think it's a
damn crime that he didn't. But at least he did

(47:20):
get it a few late years later for Titanic. But
the pieces throughout this film are just so beautifully done.
I remember the scene when William Wallace is on the
mountain and that the camera just comes in and just
floats around and what goes around him and that Celtic
music that James he Yes, it is so beautifully done

(48:04):
and is one of the reasons why Mel Gibson won
the Academy Award for Best Director.

Speaker 3 (48:10):
Yeah, I was.

Speaker 1 (48:10):
I was wondering, like where you know a couple couple
of picks ago, I'm like, come on, guys, where's Brave Heart?
So thank you. I've been wondering. You know.

Speaker 2 (48:17):
I wasn't gonna let that one flip by Jeff. It's
that movie was so powerful to me when I thought.
I saw this movie four times in the theater that year,
and one of those times is that the Billy Creek
civiol Ray Acondwayne.

Speaker 3 (48:28):
I remember that. I didn't go with you, but I
remember you going I remember you going, yeah, I agree
with you too that he he deserved an Academy Award
for this score because it's so incredible. If we were
to expand this to like top six or seven, this
would be on my list because it's just an incredible
score and it's it's just like I said, with Legends
of the Fall, you know, which this came right after.

(48:49):
And I believe that he worked on this really this
and Legends of the Fall defined his the sound of
the second part of his career. I think he when
he composes, he was so inspired by this is just incredible.
How how inspired? But he was he was robbed of
the award because he deserved it.

Speaker 2 (49:08):
My nephew came over and I was watching some concerts
on YouTube of Horner and he just sat there and
didn't say a word when he came in, just sat
down on the couch and just watched and listened to
the concert that was being played, and he was just
pulled into it. And we didn't say anything for like
five minutes until the til they were done, and he

(49:30):
looked at me and goes, what is this? And then
I told him what it was and he was like,
oh my god, that is beautiful. Mike, yep, welcome to
James Horner.

Speaker 1 (49:38):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (49:38):
See, when your pieces go beyond just being an incredible
film score to be performed in an orchestral you know,
in a concert setting, that that's that's something a completely
different animal. It's you know when we see that with
all all the composers have had this. You know, you
and I have been to a couple of John Williams answers,

(50:00):
and we know the power of just scene hearing it.
You know, Live and Braveheart is one of those pieces
that gets played over and over again in a concert setting.
It's it deserves that though it's it's more than just
a film score. It is a it's a masterpiece, an
orchestral masterpiece.

Speaker 1 (50:20):
Agreed, listeners, If you're just now tuning in to catch
the top three picks, these guys earlier were lamenting if
only they had ten picks, and Wayne just said, well,
if I had six, or if this was a six
or top six or seven, gentlemen, I will remind you

(50:41):
that coming up, you get one honorable mention and only one.

Speaker 3 (50:46):
That's why I put the suven in there, because my
six is my honorable mention.

Speaker 1 (50:52):
Okay, Dave let's let's let's hang with you a little longer.
Let's head to number two. We're almost there. Guys, Dave,
what is your second favorite or your choice as second best?

Speaker 2 (51:07):
So everybody knows the name George Lucas, everybody. Yeah, everybody
knows Star Wars. Well, that's John Williams, everybody. This is
another fantasy film from nineteen eighty eight called Willow. This

(51:40):
is a score that I immediately fell in love with
when I was a child. Again, I mean I did
By scores a little bit later after this, but this
is a score that really screams fantasy epic. It is
a swashbuckling theme which Horner did not want to do,

(52:01):
but at the request of Lucas and Ron Howard. Yes,
Ron Howard directed this. George Lucas just produced it. But
they requested a swashbuckling theme that Horner did not want
to do. But he listened to them, and I'm glad
he did because this is a beautiful action piece of

(52:21):
music throughout the entire film. And as we know, James
Horner does some incredible action music and he pulls it
off in this. Willow's theme is one of my favorites.
This is the main theme that you're going to hear
throughout the film. That just Beckon's epic adventure across a
great landscape. A score that makes us want to leap
up from our couch and go on a quest across

(52:43):
snowy mountains and winding strings. This was performed by the
London Symphony Orchestra, which I know a lot of the
famous composers did use because obviously they are incredible at
what they do. He used the King College Choir of
Wimbledon to provide the women's and the boys ensemble voices,
which again I love choir. You're gonna hear me say

(53:04):
that a lot on a film by podcast, but he
uses it so well in this film. He has oversized
woodwind section and he uses the penny whistle, which you
hear he likes pipes what you hear on Braveheart obviously,
but he does love a lot. He uses the conch
shell for crying out loud in this score, which is
incredible because when you start using other things to make

(53:27):
music in a film, that's just so cool to me. Anyway,
as a composer, it just shows you how intelligent you are.
But anyway, he has this percussion section that uses the
Chinese opera gong. He uses a South American drum, an
Irish bodron, drum bowdron. I might be pronouncing that wrong,

(53:50):
and get this even a plastic cup, that's right. He
uses a plastic cup in his score of Willow. Although
there's some keyboard, some pianos waying there you go. He
uses some synthesizers throughout this score, but it really is
a lot of folk music that is added for the
source that he uses in the score throughout the entire thing,

(54:13):
using bagpipes again. And there are three themes in this
score that I absolutely love. We talk about Willows first
one the heroic adventure theme. His second one is the
theme and Willow is. It's a highlight representing the inner
strength and kindness, the will of himself. It's called Willow's
Journey Begins. It's a very beautiful traveling scene, kind of

(54:35):
like Lord of the Rings. You get some of that,
lots of walking, but you need a powerful score to
go along with it. His other one, his third theme
that I absolutely love, is a Lord Dannon. It's a
four note phrase that is just beautifully done and it
relates to good old Lord Danon who he's trying to
save and protect.

Speaker 1 (54:56):
You have just given me hope that I can play
with an orchestra, because I'll tell you what I could.
I could play a mean plastic cup, I bet and Dave,
I gotta be honest. When you're you're teasing this up
and you're talking about a fantasy film that's a George
Lucas production, I was, I'm not gonna lie. I was

(55:18):
a little a little excited and to think, like, are
we about to talk about Howard the Duck did do that?

Speaker 2 (55:24):
Because and I can proudly, proudly say I got to
tell Ron Howard that I loved this score from James Horner.

Speaker 1 (55:36):
He did.

Speaker 2 (55:37):
I even talked to Ron Howard of you know about
the loss of James Horner, and he even told me
in person, right to my face, that it was a
tragic loss that we lost him, because he was an
incredible man to work with.

Speaker 1 (55:51):
Wayne, your choice for number two.

Speaker 3 (55:56):
I had to really think about this one, and I
think I'm very happy with my choice. My number two
pick goes way back to the beginning of Horner's career,
back to nineteen eighty three and to a film that
I remember seeing and loving in theaters, one where I
rushed out to buy the comic book adaptation, and one
that I think should have always had a sequel, but

(56:18):
it never did. The Peter Yates directed Krawl.

Speaker 2 (56:30):
Yes, good one.

Speaker 1 (56:31):
Oh what a great one? Yeah, great score.

Speaker 3 (56:33):
Yeah. I know many of you younger listeners probably have
never even heard of this film, and that's sad because
it's a fun and exciting adventure movie, one with the
most incredible and rousing James Horner's score. Now, let me
get this off my chest right away. I do acknowledge
that Krawl sounds very similar to his scores for the
previous year Star Trek to the Rapacon, which that one

(56:57):
sounds very similar to his nineteen eighties Battle Beyond the Stars.
But with each score it seems that Horner was like
fine tuning his style and sound, and Krawl is the
accumulation of that early hard work that he was doing,
containing the best styles from both of those both of
those earlier scores, and mixing them all together in a
blender to create a masterpiece of musical ear candy. It

(57:20):
surprised me when I was doing my research that, you know,
with such an incredible and thrilling score like Krawl. Horner
was tasked to write all one and ten minutes of
this massive orchestral's music in southern weeks due to the
fact that he was given one of the best orchestras
in the world to record with, as you mentioned earlier,

(57:41):
the London Symphony Orchestra, but he was forced to work
around their schedule, which would kept changing because of multiple
lays on another film that the London Symphony Orchestra was
working on, Return of the Jedi. So it comes to
me with no surprise that Horner had to use shortcuts
and some of his sounds are familiar during the length
of this score. But I have no problem with this

(58:04):
because it is an incredible, credible score. The main title
introduces the first of the incredible themes with a powerful
choral compliment, and, combined with the tracks on the soundtrack release,
core Win's Arrival and Slayers Attack, the first fifteen minutes
are explosive with dominant French horns and trumpets that just

(58:28):
blow you away as soon as you listen to it.
The highlight of the score for me is a love theme.
It's most prominently heard in the Q Corwin and Lisa's
love theme performed with a majestic string and singing flutes.
But at the end, my favorite piece really is the
death of the Beast and the destruction of the Black Fortress,
which ends the film. It's an eight and a half

(58:49):
minute piece of a masterpiece of music which these horned
going to his most energetic flights of fancy. It's full
of brassy outbursts leading right in to the choir, energetic
runs of strings, a bocket of woodwinds, and he even
uses the blaster beam, which we heard a lot in
Jerry Goldsmith'score for a Start Trek motion picture, and Horner
to use it in Star Trek two. Back in nineteen

(59:13):
eighty three when this film was released, the score to
Crawl never got a soundtrack release here in the United States.
It got one in France and Germany, which surprised me,
but nothing here in the United States, which would explain
why I had known it, because this is one of
the scores I would have run out and got or
beg my grandmother ry it. But back in the nineteen
nineties there were various bootlegs out there for everyone to

(59:35):
get their hands on, including one that was released by
a company called Supertracks, which was a two CD set
containing an hour and a half of music. I remember
David and I picking up a copy of this at
convention called Dragon Con in Atlanta back in nineteen ninety nine,
but I had no idea that that was a bootleg.

(59:55):
Spent many years listening to it. But in twenty ten
it did finally get an official release by Lalla Land Records,
Beautiful Remaster two CD set containing an hour and thirty
nine minutes of score. Instance sellout, but then they released
it again in twenty fifteen for those who didn't get
the first release, So it's still easily obtained if you
want to get a copy, and I highly recommend it.

(01:00:17):
It's a work of genius. From what you could call
the time a rising star in the film business.

Speaker 2 (01:00:23):
Dave was a very good pick.

Speaker 1 (01:00:25):
Dave. What was the name of that that badass boomerang
weapon that Corwyn used?

Speaker 2 (01:00:30):
Oh, I forget the glade, glade, the glade, the glade
or something like that.

Speaker 1 (01:00:37):
Yeah, something like that.

Speaker 3 (01:00:38):
Yeah, that was something like that.

Speaker 1 (01:00:39):
Yeah, yep, I gotta I gotta tell you you know
this past, you know, coming up on an hour here
we've been I've been listening to you guys. I've been
thinking I'm gonna watch this movie when we're done, I'm
gonna watch that movie. You know, I've changed my mind
a couple of times. But Wayne, I'm I'm certain right
now that when we wrap this up, I'm putting in
my DVD of Krawl, like, hell yeah, I'm ready for

(01:01:01):
Crawl now. But uh, guys, let's take one more break,
and when we come back, we will conclude the top
five with a few honorable mentions and your number one picks.
Welcome back, everybody. It is that time. We are about
to talk about the number one picks for our James

(01:01:25):
Horner Top five. But before we do, Dave, do you
have an honorable mention that you'd like to something that
it broke your heart to keep off the list, but
you just you just couldn't do it, and but you
want to. You want to give a little bit of
love to you right now, briefly, I do.

Speaker 2 (01:01:43):
I've got four No, I kiddy, I'm kidding.

Speaker 1 (01:01:47):
Yeah, mute the mic now.

Speaker 2 (01:01:50):
It was it was tough to really narrow this one
down because there's some other ones I wish I would
have put here, but I've got to give it to
another Ron Howard film and that's nineteen twenty fives Apollo thirteen.
There's such incredible music in here, but there's one piece
that I have listened to quite a bit because it's
very emotional, very dramatic, and just makes you feel so

(01:02:11):
good about yourself. But it's the re Entry and Splash
down track, which is, you know, again, my favorite piece
in the score. It does an incredible job of representing
the feeling we as an audience in the cast get
as the crew of the Apollo are coming back to
Earth and getting that satisfaction that they made it. Remember
the scene when it all went quiet. Remember they were
coming back down to Earth. They lost communication, they didn't

(01:02:35):
know what was going on, and we were focused on
the crew there, the NASA crew. We didn't know what
was going on until you got that crackle that they
were there and they everybody jumped up started cheering. Even
the audience was jumping up and cheering. That's exactly what
this track represented, and every time I listened to it,
I go back to that scene because it's just so

(01:02:56):
incredibly well done and pose the emotions out of you
that should to represent this scene.

Speaker 1 (01:03:02):
We don't get Horner's amazing score for Paul thirteen without
Ron Howard's incredible film, and we don't get that film
without a guy like Jim Lovell, right, sadly, we just
he just passed away at ninety three years old. I believe.
Is that correct? Tom Hanks did a sensational job. Everyone

(01:03:25):
involved did a sensational job in that. That is not
That is not a bad honorable mention as far as
I'm concerned, Wayne, I've got a hunch on what yours
is going to be. I think you have secretly mentioned
it already. But one honorable mention, Wayne, what do you
got for us?

Speaker 3 (01:03:41):
I don't know. You might not choose this one because
this is a very obscure film. This is it's probably
a film that no one's even heard of, which is
a shame, because it's a beautiful film with a magnificent
James Horner's score, and I really want to bring attention
to it because I love it. And it would be
the nineteen ninety TV film called Extreme Close Up, directed

(01:04:02):
by Edward's Wick. This was done right after he worked
with Glory, so it's it's obvious it's Wick wanted him,
you know, to score this extremely well received and critically
acclaimed TV film at the time, but it just everyone
has forgotten about it.

Speaker 2 (01:04:17):
You know.

Speaker 3 (01:04:17):
The story of this is very simple, and you know,
a boy falls apart after his mother dies and then
becomes obsessed with watching old home new movies that he
made of her. It's not exactly a fun movie to
watch because it's the subject of depression and suicide, but
it offered James Horner a rare opportunity to return to
television and write a beautiful but brief score for it.

(01:04:40):
It's only about forty minutes long, but the style is
so definitely Horner, you know, featuring instrumentation and progressions that
really are his trademarks for all of his films. But
he's using a small orchestra with piano, solo, woodwinds, harp, synthesizer,
and a The whole thing is concludes with a short
piece with a solo cello. It's a quiet, very intimate

(01:05:03):
sight of James Horner, one that we don't see much
in many of his other scores, and really showcases his
talent when you strip away the large orchestra in choir
and are left with only just a handful of instruments
in your raw musical ability. The score has only ever
been released once by Introdo Records back in two thousand
and nine, extremely limited CD to about fifteen hundred copies.

(01:05:26):
It sold out in three minutes, and I was so
glad that I got ahold of a copy of it,
because it's a side of Horner that we don't hear much,
and I love it, and I wish more people would
would see this film, listen to the score and appreciate
it like I do.

Speaker 2 (01:05:42):
Interesting choice.

Speaker 1 (01:05:43):
Yeah, absolutely, I've never heard of that one, but I'm
hoping I've heard of your number one picks, because you know,
Wayne just mentioned that film. I know what we did Goldsmith.
He gave us the Salamander, if I remember. I was like, yes, yes, yes,
it's awesome. But what's that movie about?

Speaker 4 (01:06:01):
You know?

Speaker 1 (01:06:02):
But all right, guys, it is time for the number
one picks. I would bet my life that one, or
maybe both of you are going to say the one
that I'm thinking, because it's shocking that it hasn't come
up yet. But David, what is the number one James
Horner score?

Speaker 2 (01:06:23):
Blow the horn, play the fife, beat the drum, So slowly,
blow the horn, play the fife, Make the drum beat
Glory Edwards Wicks nineteen eighty nine film Glory is the

(01:07:01):
definitive score from James Horner. In my opinion, there are
three pieces that there's a lot of pieces in this
film that are really a standout, just blow me away.
First off, I'm a huge American Civil war buff history buff,
and this film is the best American Civil War film

(01:07:22):
ever made, hands down. But there are three pieces that
are just incredibly well done. The first one is a
call to arms. It's the opening piece that just clearly
sets the tone of war, with choir, drums and fife
giving us the image of battle armies moving towards one
another and eventually colliding. Again I've mentioned this before. We

(01:07:44):
get a haunting choir from James Horner, which is throughout
a lot of this film. I have a quote from
James Horner that I would like to read. It is
about the use of the boys Choir of Harlem he
used for this film. He says, we had this boy's choir,

(01:08:05):
the Boy's Choir of Harlem, which was a real risk
because I was told very nicely with a good sense
of humor, but you always know that there's a dagger somewhere.
I was told that basically, you know, I was going
to have my head handed to me if this didn't
work out, because we had to fly this Boy's choir
in New York with the guys that watch over the
kids during the day. You have to pay them as

(01:08:27):
though they were going to school. You have to provide
a tutor for them. There's a whole thing that works out.
You don't just send a bunch of kids in for
eight hours and send them back to the hotel room.
It's a whole thing. So it ended up costing close
to seventy thousand dollars just to bring them here and
get them back to New York before you pay them anything,
just airfares and hotel and food and tutor. And the

(01:08:50):
studio was beside themselves. They thought that if this doesn't
work out, this was going to be a huge disaster.
Mind you, On the day of the recording all this,
the executives were down here for taking in the magic,
and it was a magical experience having this Black Boy's
Choir there. It was great and they are great, and
everybody wants to be a daughter of the magic. But

(01:09:11):
what happens at times is no one's thinking about the
magic or the sound they were thinking about sheer bottom line,
and you get a lot of middle level management people
who say, well, can we do it with a choir
from Pasadena? Why does it have to be a black
boy's choir? When they say why does it have to
be a black boy's choir and it's Glory, you want
to say, hey, pal, have you even seen the movie?

(01:09:35):
I think that is one of the best quotes I've
ever seen from Horner.

Speaker 1 (01:09:38):
It is Yeah, that's fantastic. It really is Wayne Dave
Drop throwing down the gauntlet here he says, this is
the definitive James Horner score, and you've got a number
one pick left.

Speaker 3 (01:09:54):
Well, it really was no question when my top pick
would be, you know, my number one James Horner's score,
because I too, am a little biased towards the score
because of my love of history and specifically my love
of the American Civil War, so of course I had
to choose Glory as well. I can remember when I
first saw this film back in theaters in nineteen ninety.

(01:10:17):
You know, I had just discovered my love of the
Civil War through the history class that I took in
high school, and I was devouring everything about the war books,
TV shows, movies, everything. Glory was still in the theater
at the time, and I went up alone to see it.
But by the end of the film I was in tears,
I really was, And a lot of that had to

(01:10:37):
do with James Horner's beautiful score that he wrote for this.
You know, gosh, there's so many preparations for battle was
probably one of my favorite cues, one of the longest
cues of the score. It's where the men of the
fifty fourth Gatherer on the beach to launch their attack
on Fort Wagner. He really lays on the emotion. It's

(01:10:57):
full of strings and orchestral crescendos, showcases all of the
themes that he created for this. And then of course
there's the queue that comes right after that, charging Fort Wagner,
which is probably the score is most famous piece. It's
one of the most copied and imitated out of the
films and television productions. It's just a powerful piece of

(01:11:18):
relentless snare, drums and bells, trumpets, surging strings, all with
the choir chaining above. It all about judgment day and
mercy from God. That's been translated in Latin. I don't
think there's been a stronger or more memorable piece of
music ever created for a film other than that. You know,

(01:11:39):
I listened. I went right out and bought the score
back in nineteen ninety, which had about forty five minutes
of music, but it hit most of the major pieces
that were in the film that everybody want to hear.
But I had been begging the companies to re release
a full complete score of this because I always felt
that the original release sounded very blank and muddy and quiet,

(01:12:02):
as if it had no dynamics, just did not bring
out the brilliance of this score. But finally in twenty
twenty one, Lalla Land did release this as a two
CD set has two hours of music. It's everything's there,
complete score, all the source music alternated on used cues,
completely remastered, and it sounds like you were standing right

(01:12:25):
there when the orchestra was performing it. And plus it
also I have to point this out that on this
release also there's a cue on it called the Battle
of Grimball's Landing, which is a powerful battle charge piece
of music for a scene that was completely cut from
the film, and it's heard for the first time here.
It's a great piece. I'm glad that I've always heard

(01:12:48):
about it, but never knew what it was until this
came out and I finally hear it. But Glory will
always stand among Horner's top career works. It's no surprise
that it's both David and Mine's top choice. It's one
of the most effectively engaging, heartbreaking scores of the entire
era of the nineteen eighties. How could we not choose

(01:13:10):
this one?

Speaker 2 (01:13:11):
And how did it not get an Academy award?

Speaker 3 (01:13:14):
Oh my gosh, I don't know. I have my theory
now with a lot of it. Horner uses the style
of a lot of classical pieces of music, and I
know the Academy wrongfully turns their nose up to that.
So I think that's why I don't. I don't even know.
If it was it was nominated, I would think it

(01:13:35):
would have been. But it should have won. It really
should have won. He should have won too many times,
many many many times he was robbed like Goldsmith was.

Speaker 2 (01:13:44):
To wait, I want to add, you talked about charging
Fort Wagner being an incredible piece, and it is the other.
The third piece that I really that stood out to
me is the whipping Oh gosh, yeah, first off, that
is an extremely powerful then and if you've not seen
this movie, I mean, I'm going to ask you, why
have you not seen this movie if you have. That

(01:14:04):
scene in itself is the reason why Denzel Washington got
the Academy Award for that, but because it just shows
you how intelligent of an actor he is. But the
music pairs with his performance incredibly well. That music just
how when a tear comes down his cheap but he's
still too strong to show anything. That music just goes

(01:14:24):
with it and it just echoes that film, and that
the meaning of that scene just absolutely mind blowing.

Speaker 1 (01:14:33):
Yeah, it's an amazing performance, It's an amazing film, and
I am in agreement with you guys. His definitive score
James Horner's definitive score. I certainly think you guys both
have the right right choices there with your number one picks.
Other than that, again, more than one hundred and sixty compositions.

(01:14:57):
I don't know how you guys managed to pair down
the way you did, but very impressive list. I knew
it would be after listening to what you guys did
with Chuck and the on the Goldsmith episode. But I
want to thank you both, because I'll tell you what.
I don't know what I want to do first. I
don't know if I want to sit down and watch

(01:15:19):
some movies or if I want to I just listen
to some music. But I'm doing I'm doing one or
maybe both the rest of this evening absolutely listeners. What
do you think of James Horner's music? Do we mention
all of your favorites or any of them omitted from
our list? You can let us know on social media.
You'll find us on Facebook, Instagram, and x You can

(01:15:40):
check out a Film by Podcast dot com for all
of our episodes that are streaming free, our articles. Wayne
rumor has it you're going to start writing some more
stuff for the website, so yep, I am looking forward.

Speaker 3 (01:15:54):
To that, including some soundtrack reviews. I plan on letting
everybody know what's coming out and what's due to because
about thanks heard it here.

Speaker 1 (01:16:01):
First, you can write to us at a Film by
Podcast at gmail dot com with your questions, comments and concerns.
We may just read your response on the show and
send you some of a film by swag and guys.
As you can see, I'm wearing some of the new stuff.

Speaker 3 (01:16:14):
Right now and it is awesome.

Speaker 1 (01:16:16):
Yeah, that is Wayne quick mention phaser set to stun
You guys are what you're halfway through the new season
A Strange New Worlds?

Speaker 3 (01:16:26):
Yes we are. We have five more episodes to review,
five more weeks of it, and then once we complete that,
we will be getting into one of the biggest look
back so that we've done, We're going to look back
and talk about our ten favorite episodes per season of
Star Trek Deep Space nine.

Speaker 1 (01:16:46):
Okay, so this is gonna be like a is this
gonna be like the Starter Treks type of ye yeah,
like you guys, okay with like you guys did with TG, because.

Speaker 3 (01:16:52):
We're going to tell you which one episodes you can
watch and which episode you can skip.

Speaker 1 (01:16:57):
I'll be honest, you guys knew I had never seen
in a single episode of the Next Generation, and then
I used the starter tracks as a as a supplement,
and uh now I love that show. It's like, how
did I how did I how did I not? How
did I not watch it earlier?

Speaker 2 (01:17:14):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (01:17:16):
One, I think that's gonna do it for us. Uh
to all of you listening to the show, following us
on social media and subscribing to our Patreon. We thank you,
m I think honestly, obviously we're gonna we're gonna keep

(01:17:52):
doing these every season, so uh, I would say, what
we're gonna, let we If we're not kicking off off
next season in February with John Williams, then we're doing
something wrong.

Speaker 3 (01:18:04):
Yeah, we have to talk about John Williams. I mean,
he's just incredible.

Speaker 2 (01:18:07):
Well, I mean there's some other John's too that we
could talk about.

Speaker 3 (01:18:10):
You're right, there is, including one of our favorites.

Speaker 1 (01:18:12):
Are you talking about John Carpenter? And that's a good one, John? Well,
all right, Well, I'll tell you what if you did
you did three, you did two? What two this year? Yeah,
let's what if we just's yeah double, yeah, you do
like you do like two weeks half, you know, let's
see Williams Carpenter. You just said, John Debney.

Speaker 3 (01:18:35):
Yeah, don't forget about the other John John, Yeah, the
King of All James Bond, John Barry.

Speaker 2 (01:18:42):
Yeah, John absolutely, all right, the Year of John, the
Year of John.

Speaker 1 (01:18:47):
All right, Hey, let's all right, I'm writing it down.

Speaker 3 (01:18:50):
We're doing it next count