April 16, 2025 • 44 mins
In this Episode Fred and Lane speak with Jeff Simpsom of The Simpsom Law Office talks about his journey to become an attorney and his experience in criminal defense and family law in Northwest Ohio. For our second guest we had Bill Wourms and Tony Wourms of Technical Roofing they talk about the origin of their business and how they got into the roofing industry.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
Welcome to A Heart for Business. I'm Fred Lafever and
along with Lane Months, President CEO the Better Business Bureau
of Northwest Ohio and Southeast Michigan, we'll highlight a local
business weekly. You'll discover why these small local business owners
have a passion for what they do and why the
(00:26):
Better Business Bureau has a heart for business. Now here's
Laane Months.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
Welcome to the program. Every one, episode ten of A
Heart for Business. I'm here in downtown Toledo with Fred
Lafever and just want to point out he's the only
true professional in the room when it comes to broadcast media.
He keeps me on track and tries to keep me
from looking like an idiot. So thanks for joining the program.
As always, we have two guests today. The first guest
(00:54):
today Jeff Simpson, attorney, attorney in downtown Toledo. Good morning, Jeff, sir,
Yeah are you yeah?
Speaker 1 (01:01):
Good?
Speaker 2 (01:01):
So, Jeff, thanks for coming onto the program where I'm
looking forward to the first attorney to be on the program.
By the way, oh good, I'm setting the bar and
just so the audience knows, Fred's that's so good. Fred
confirmed that Jeff is ready to make a fool of himself,
but I don't think that's going to happen. Jeff is
too composed. So Jeff, tell us about your journey to
(01:22):
become an attorney and where you practice and what you
practice in well.
Speaker 3 (01:26):
I practice in Toledo. I've been here almost twenty years
in a law school at University of Toledo. I practice
in criminal defense and family law all over northwest Ohio,
depending on the case. I am a member of Leader
Legal Aid Society as a public defender to two judges
here in Lucas County, both Stacey Cook and Linday Navarre.
(01:48):
I've been doing this for a very long time, very
long time.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
Is that an unusual combination?
Speaker 3 (01:53):
It can be. It suits my having two it's a
new mind all we're doing having uh, having more than
one public defender in a courtroom. Okay, so a number
of us have two judges to whom we are responsible,
but there's always somebody else in that courtroom. So it's
it's it's usually my full day Wednesday to be in
(02:16):
the courthouse, oh okay, unless there's a trial schedule or
hearing scheduled otherwise, So it kind of works for my
schedule able to prep those those clients.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
What does what does that mean that you're in a courtroom?
So that's I didn't do criminal law, so I steered
clear of that only when I get speeding tickets and
I get in trouble. But uh, what does that mean
when you're in the courtroom with a judge. I don't
quite understand that.
Speaker 3 (02:38):
Each each of the ten judges here and most criminal
dockets have specific times of the week that they will
have their criminal docket so that they can coordinate with
the Lucas County Sheriff or other agencies to bring uh
defendants and for scheduling purposes. So it's it's blocked out
throughout the week. So Stacy Judge Stacy Cook has Wednesday
morning as her main main docket. Judge Lindes Navar has
(03:01):
Wednesday afternoon as her main docket. They may have other
times during the week for other uses. Today, for instance,
I was in front of Judge Stacy Cook for a
couple of cases that need to be done, like we
couldn't get too on Wednesday. But they usually have blocks
of time through the week to be able to do
their criminal work.
Speaker 2 (03:18):
So any criminal defendant that you're representing as a public
defender will be that time, or even an even non
public defender but private higher both.
Speaker 3 (03:26):
Yeah, the whole criminal docket for that week mostly will
be on Wednesday.
Speaker 2 (03:30):
Yeah, a lot of people don't know, but the criminal
docket really does control the courtroom's docket overall. It always
superseded my civil cases.
Speaker 3 (03:38):
It certainly can. You've got constitutional rights, You've got constitutional
times for people to be in custody in times that
the Supreme Court of Ohio wants these cases disposed of.
So to be sure, I hear always that a criminal case,
if it goes to trial or hearing, will kick, which
is a word for us to say, to reschedule a
civil manner. And there has been times sometimes when a
(04:00):
civil matter will take priority. That's if it's been pending
for a couple of years and enough is enough and
it needs to go to jury or something. But it's
it is very it is rather rare.
Speaker 4 (04:08):
We never tried.
Speaker 2 (04:09):
I don't recall a time in my thirty years that
I ever trumped the criminal docket, and not once.
Speaker 1 (04:14):
Yeah, is there still a backup from five years ago
when when we hit COVID or has that been cleared
out pretty much?
Speaker 3 (04:20):
We cleared that out pretty well, we were all still
working during COVID, those of us who could go to
court and did with masks and types of things. I'm
younger and so on my colleagues, so I was able
to go to the municipal court and handle some things.
So we we've long since cleared that up.
Speaker 1 (04:36):
So they're looking back at the at the five years
of COVID, and one of the things that they talked
about five years ago was, oh, there's this huge backlog
of cases. Uh, and the speedy trials that we were
talking about weren't getting handled. But apparently, oh we were.
Speaker 3 (04:49):
We've all got well, some of them weren't because of
because of we couldn't do things. But we've since since
that time fixed it pretty pretty well.
Speaker 4 (04:56):
Okay, Okay, So Jeff, did you start? I got a
law school in criminal law, and what's the origin story there?
Speaker 3 (05:03):
I did well.
Speaker 1 (05:04):
I was.
Speaker 3 (05:04):
I got sworn in on a Tuesday, and at that
time people were not hiring lawyers. The market was rather.
Speaker 1 (05:15):
Soft.
Speaker 2 (05:16):
I don't understand it, because we're so likable too. Lawyers
are so likable. We're warm and fuzzy.
Speaker 3 (05:22):
In two thousand and six, when I got sworn in,
there was too many of us. There were too many
of us twenty years ago, and so I had heard
somewhere that you could take appointments in criminal cases from
the courthouse, and so on that Wednesday, I got dressed
up and I went to the courthouse into the court
Administrator's office on the third floor, and in a joking,
(05:42):
kind of funny way, walk in and said, I'm a lawyer.
Now give me some clients, you know, did you really? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (05:49):
I did, And so they said, okay.
Speaker 4 (05:51):
What's our way of begging Fred?
Speaker 3 (05:54):
They said, okay, come with me, and I saw They
walked me to the next available which would have been
Thursday morning, to ruth Ann Franks, who had since retired.
She said, they said, your honored, this is a new lawyer.
He wants to have clients. And she said, okay, be
here tomorrow day thirty. And I was and I was
assigned a family two robbery case.
Speaker 5 (06:13):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (06:15):
Did you feel confident?
Speaker 4 (06:17):
Yes?
Speaker 1 (06:17):
And that really why.
Speaker 3 (06:18):
Because I did the work. Okay, I read everything I could,
I did the work, I talked to colleagues, I did
all that stuff. So it was a we had a
good favorable outcome for what the evidence was.
Speaker 1 (06:30):
But I don't mean just that case, I mean going
into it before you did all the research on that
particular case. Were you that confident in your abilities that
you you know, like you said, you went over there
and said, give me clients. Were you that confident in that?
And why was that? Well?
Speaker 3 (06:46):
I mean I'd been through school, I've been to the testing,
I've been through the bar. Everybody goes, we all do
that stuff. Success in life, at least what I've seen
often isn't the only regulator, but often comes to effort.
And if I can put for I know my work capacity,
I know what I can do. That gave me confidence
(07:08):
I will figure this out. Will take a step by step.
I know what an arraignment is. It might that Thursday
morning I got that client. I don't have to deal
with Guilton since that day. I had to get through.
Right now, get to the next part. Then we get
to the next part, and then I'll do the work
on discovery, and we'll do all those things, and I'll
meet with him at the jail and we'll come to
whatever the outcome will become the outcome. So, yes, there
(07:30):
wasn't a whole lot of Now, clearly I was nervous.
Various other parts of it. But I knew that I
could do this. This felt right to me the entire time.
Speaker 2 (07:39):
And criminal defense attorneys the good ones. They are a
different breed and they if they're good, they're confident and
they will work hard.
Speaker 1 (07:46):
Yeah, I think you'd have to be.
Speaker 4 (07:48):
They separate themselves out.
Speaker 2 (07:49):
I think from the other attorneys in the pack that
I really believe that.
Speaker 3 (07:53):
It is a it's a tough one. It's a tough business.
It leaves a mark. I know a lot of really
scary facts about a lot of scary things things. A
lot of the cases I have are.
Speaker 4 (08:03):
Hear some no name for every name, just use my
name for my name. When yeah, you.
Speaker 3 (08:10):
Get to remember, I'm dealing with people. I'm representing people
at their worst, so they I get them. I'm usually
the last I'd say this every time everyone. I'm the
last guy to the party. Everything else happened, and I'm
either hired or appointed from somebody who is in need.
So they're already at an eleven. Everything is falling apart
(08:31):
around them. They've lost their job, they're separated from their family.
So I now have to deal with that high emotion.
Then we get to the facts of it and they
read sometimes awful, awful facts, and I look at the
photographs and this injury here, and this injury here, this
injury here, and we just deal with a lot of
really negative, high emotional incidences.
Speaker 2 (08:55):
And you're really all they've got at that point, because
the government's pretty well healed, the persecutor to be, the
prosecutor is well on track, they've got advanced notice of
the case. You're always starting from behind the eight ball.
I gotta believe that's right. Yeah, And I tell everyone
time is our ally, it's not theirs. The more time
we spend, the better we are. You know, they know
things before I do. I have to ask for the reports.
(09:17):
I have to ask for this stuff. They already have them,
they're ready to go. And so one of the things
that I have a lot with my clients is setting
a timeline. You know, this is not going to be
over fast. Speed is not your friend in any litigation.
You know, speed is not your friend. These cases have
to develop. I have to talk to witnesses, I have
to do my diligence. I have to do the research
and that kind of stuff that's going to take time.
(09:38):
And some understand, some don't, but some do.
Speaker 1 (09:40):
It that I can see. I can see. I mean,
you're in the situation. I'm the one that committed the
crime or alleged crime, so I know everything that's gone.
I know the cops have already arrested me. I know
what they know. Then all of a sudden, I'm looking
at you across the table and I'm thinking, hey, you
should be up to par r r. That's that's right.
Speaker 3 (09:58):
They think it moves a lot faster than actually and
the procedural rules keep that from happening for a variety
of reasons and interests, both you know, constitutional and procedural.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
And from human anxiety. You're in a terrible, terrible situation.
You just want it to be over. Sometimes people just
want it to be over, regardless of the outcome, and
of course you want to bring them to the best
outcome possible.
Speaker 4 (10:19):
Yeah, that's going to take some patience.
Speaker 3 (10:21):
And I hear that all the time. I hear that
both in my family law practice and my criminal practice.
And my response is great, we'll just plead guilty to
everything right now. I'll get this over in two minutes.
And then they go, okay, well, okay, we didn't mean that.
Once you mean to say you want this to be
done efficiently, which is that middle ground between speed and work. Okay,
we want to be efficient with how we do things. Okay,
(10:42):
we're not gonna We're gonna take our time, but not
gonna waste time. Okay. So a lot of times, especially
in divorce, I just want to be divorced from him. Okay, well,
let's give up your retirement, let's give up the house
and the kids, and you can just you can beat
I can get you divorced. That's not a problem. You know,
they will bend over backwards for us in the courtroom
to get this thing over with. But let's just let's
efficient about things. Let's do the work, let's put the
time into it. You didn't get married on the spur
(11:05):
of the moment, most likely, let's not get you divorced
on the spur of the moment.
Speaker 4 (11:09):
Sure, if you wave the white flag, I guess it
can be over quickly.
Speaker 1 (11:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (11:12):
Absolutely, Yeah, But then that's pretty pretty bad.
Speaker 2 (11:14):
I also, and again, not a criminal lawyer and not
a fam The only, like I was telling Fred, the
only domestic relations case that I ever handled was my
own divorce. And that was enough for me, right, that
was enough for me at that courthouse and that process.
But I do believe in criminal law, there's also some
the court likes to see it. I think sometimes they
like to see things drag out. They've got an ankle
(11:37):
monitor maybe on the defendant. They want to see if
that defendant's going to be a repeat offender, or you know,
they like to I don't know, is that my wrong
about that?
Speaker 3 (11:45):
No, not necessarily. It is how one acts while on
an R bond or an EMU bond is important for
ultimate you know, sentencing. That is a relevant factor for
how we how the court could sentence a defendant.
Speaker 2 (11:57):
And if you speed it up too fast, the court
doesn't have the benefit fit of your good behavior, assuming
you're going to give that good behavior.
Speaker 3 (12:03):
Most of the judges are by practice for the in fact,
all of them will allow us to do the work,
and so they're not really second guessing lawyers too much.
If we go in and say, you're, honor, we're at
a pre trial right now, discovery has been exchanged, we're
working the case. We need two or three weeks to
come to either a resolution or a position to know
that this case will be tried. They usually give it
to us without a whole lot of you know, micromanaging
(12:24):
or asking. Sometimes they get a little bit bothered if
a case is up for a seventh pre trial that
you're asking for a while, you know, a reset trial date,
they're going to ask you. You know, what's why, you
know what's going on. But that kind of stuff that's
very rare. You know, most of the judges will allow
us to do the work if you know we're doing it.
Speaker 1 (12:41):
So how do you how do you talk to people
about the frustration level that we have on the outside. Uh,
because I'm sure you hear it too from just the
general public. I don't know why they just can't get Look,
the guy's obviously guilty, you know, I don't know why
this is dragging on so long? Why does this guy
I have seven pre trial hearing, seven appeals and all
(13:03):
this stuff. But we know we did it. Why can't
they just move it along?
Speaker 3 (13:06):
This is the wonderful thing about our system. And this
is what I tell everyone that we celebrate on my
favorite day, which is fourth of July, which is a
lawyer's holiday. There were no battles on the fourth of
July seventeen seventy six. A lot of people got together
signed a petition and mailed it. That's a lawyer's holiday.
Speaker 4 (13:26):
What we what we what way to spin it? Jeff,
I don't has ever thought of it. I love it.
I that's what spin. I mean the spin.
Speaker 3 (13:33):
You know that that is a day that we said
this is our system of government that from that time
we've set through the through the Constitution and through the
Bill of Rights, how we do things. One of the
wonderful things about our country is that he has seven
pre trials, is that he has all We want to
make sure we get it right, not get it done.
Speaker 4 (13:52):
We traded due process for tyranny.
Speaker 3 (13:54):
That's right.
Speaker 4 (13:55):
We said we don't want tyranny.
Speaker 2 (13:56):
And we'll take a process that can be hopefully fair
across the board. It's going to take longer because tyranny
can be very quick.
Speaker 4 (14:03):
Yeah, yep.
Speaker 2 (14:03):
The King's judgment was very swift, but we've traded that
for something else and more that we think is more valuable.
Speaker 3 (14:09):
Henry the eighth was very fast.
Speaker 4 (14:11):
Yeah. We don't super efficient.
Speaker 3 (14:13):
So one of the things we do is we set
these procedures as best we can, and of course there's
going to be on the edges and the margins. Examples
of abuse, and examples of things being the wrong way,
But by and large the process works, and by and
large the process is one that we should all feel
confident in going forward.
Speaker 2 (14:29):
I believe that I'm going to ask the flip side
of Fred's question now, because we talked about it a
little bit during show prep, Jeff. The flip side is,
how do you deal with the family and friends who
know that your client is innocent. The public knows they're guilty,
knows I'm putting nose in a verbal quotation marks here.
But the family and friends, they know that person is innocent.
(14:49):
How do you deal with that side of it?
Speaker 3 (14:51):
When they come to me with I'll ask them, Okay,
we need to be objective about this. We need to
be I need to know the evidence. I use them
as as an asset when I can. If have things
and I have this all the time, they will say, well,
I've got this, I've got that will show it to me,
so let's review it. You know, you know, I don't
know as much as you do. Most often, in some
of the cases I have that comes out of a
(15:13):
crime of a human relationship, domestic violence, assault, those types
of things and people around that circumstance and relationship. Will
know far more than I ever. Will you know, I'm
reading pieces of paper, I'm looking at reports, So I'll
say I'm going to use you as an asset. You're
gonna have to come bring me this stuff, let me
look at it, and we'll go from there.
Speaker 6 (15:33):
Will.
Speaker 3 (15:33):
I will tell you it's tough for me to talk
with family because, as I read the ethical rules, I'm
not allowed to tell things to people unless they're my client.
And I take that really seriously. You have to so
a lot of times family doesn't understand that. They may
think of a professional as like you would a an
er physician who comes out to the lobby and says,
this is what I'm experiencing. Well, I don't have that
(15:55):
same type of thing. I really kind of defer to
less information to and friends. So you want to know
what's going on in the case, talk to your true guy.
Speaker 4 (16:03):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:03):
They want you to give affirmation that it's going to
be okay. And then sometimes you know things and it's
not necessarily going to be okay.
Speaker 3 (16:10):
And what I don't want to do is to mismanage
my client's expectation. If I if I say something to
aunt Sheila that she didn't hear, that she heard incorrectly,
and then she tells my client Billy. Now I have
to spend time unraveling what Billy heard from Aunt Sheila,
and in the conflict between Aunt Sheila and me, he's
going to believe An Sheila. So that just wastes everyone's
(16:31):
time too. So just for ease of communication, bring me
the evidence, bring me what you think I will. I
will filter use it as I can to help my client.
But I'm not going to give here's where we are,
here's where the case is going. I can't do that
kind of.
Speaker 1 (16:43):
Yeah, and we see that the example he gave about
the hospital, same thing. You know, the doctor comes out
and he wants to talk to the wife about what's
going on with the husband. Everybody else is standing around.
They're paying half attention because of the heightened emotions of
the system, and they only hear he's going to come
out of this too, He's probably not going to come
out of this, and everything gets twisted around. I'm curious
(17:07):
to go back to something that you mentioned before about
seeing people at their worst. One of the things we've
talked about on the show is that police are in
the same situation. You don't usually see a cop unless
something is wrong. That right, This could be something minor,
but a lot of cases it's something bad. And so
there's a lot of mental health problems with police officers.
Are we finding the same thing with attorneys? I mean,
(17:30):
you're looking at photographs of crime scenes and you're dealing
with people who are at their worst. Do attorneys need
to be more aware of their mental health?
Speaker 4 (17:39):
Should we disclose?
Speaker 3 (17:41):
It's becoming a much more national conversation. I was a
part of a committee through the National Association and Public
Defense that talk about mental health of attorneys and what
we could do to break away from it, and I
learned a lot from that. I, for instance, will at
four forty five, I'm ready to go do something else.
(18:02):
I mean, I'll take homework with me at home. I've
got no problem doing that. But from you know, high
school sports to college sports to you know, staying active
in law school till now at five o'clock, I'm physically
ready to do something else. I can't go until nine
o'clock in my office. I'll take my stuff home, but
I'm going to the gym. I'm going to go do
something else. I'm going to go lift I'm.
Speaker 1 (18:22):
Going to physically. Also works on your emotions.
Speaker 3 (18:25):
That's how I get rid of it. I'm able to
put the headphones on, go to the gym, move some
metal around, move some stuff around. I've got the same
you know, thirty five heavy metal songs. I have been
listening to you since ninety eight, right, you know, a
lot of a lot of the lot of the good stuff.
You know. I've got long hair for a reason, so
(18:46):
you know, the same songs I've been listening to. That
just allows me to be by myself. I don't have
to talk to anybody, have to listen to anybody. I
can focus on what I'm doing.
Speaker 1 (18:54):
And that works for you.
Speaker 3 (18:55):
That works for me. And there's a lot of other
you know outlets. Some people are more social, but we
talked about that in that committee, about how we can
do that stuff. It's becoming a national talking point for
those of us in the industry.
Speaker 2 (19:04):
So, Fred, the incidence of depression, anxiety, and other forms
of mental illness like that among attorneys is two and
a half to three times the rate of the normal
average public. It's a serious problem, and we don't know.
They still don't know. Is that because the profession does
that to you? Or is it because the profession attracts
(19:25):
people that are predisposed to that.
Speaker 4 (19:26):
Or is a little bit of both. It's probably a
little bit of both. I don't know.
Speaker 1 (19:30):
And the thing is, as Jeff also pointed out, though
he can't disclose most of that stuff just like a
doctor because of hippoloss. So it would be I would think,
very difficult for you to sit down with a therapist
and get rid of anything because you can't really give
them anything other than just your feeling.
Speaker 3 (19:50):
How you feel about somebody telling you stuff. It's tough
to go through a really gruesome case and say I
saw this photograph this or this is what I learned,
and that's tough to do. So you have to find
ways to deal with it.
Speaker 1 (20:05):
Is so you sound like you came up with something
that works for you.
Speaker 3 (20:08):
That does Yeah, yeah, that does.
Speaker 4 (20:11):
Jeff, you've got.
Speaker 2 (20:11):
People in the audience listening. What are some points of
advice or advice that you'd like to give to the listeners?
Family members, friends, whomever, business people can just members of
the public. You've got their ear You've been doing it
for twenty years as a criminal defense attorney and other
what kind of things would you like to say that
would help them if they ever have to face this situation.
Speaker 3 (20:34):
Firstly, you have a right to remain silent. Please remain silence. Yes,
I have lost cases because my client thinks at the
side of the road or at the porch, they can
talk their way out of something. I'm not going to
tell you. And I don't take the position that on
(20:54):
every single call a law enforcement officer is going to
make an arrest. But please stop giving them a re
Stop talking about this stuff. You don't have to say anything,
Say your name, handle of your license, and be done.
Stop talking about it, you know, And a lot of
times like well in ov I, you know, the talking
is part of the evidence against you. Speech, the breath,
(21:16):
all that other stuff. So I had a client a
number of years ago in municipal court with his third
ov I. He was stopped at a at a at
a traffic uh you know, kind of like one of
those UH checkpoint checkpoints. They said, we think you're in toxic.
He got out, didn't say a word, shrugged his shoulders.
(21:37):
They had no evidence. We won that case. They had
no evidence. He wasn't saying, well, I just got off
the golf course. I had four or five big of.
Speaker 1 (21:44):
A deal coming from going to He shrugged his shoulders,
rolled his eyes.
Speaker 3 (21:48):
That was the evidence. They couldn't proceed and we were
end up winning. So please, do you know, be honest
if you're going to talk, but you don't have to.
Speaker 1 (21:56):
You don't have to give your idea.
Speaker 4 (22:00):
That's correct, lot anything else. As we wrap up, Jeff, just.
Speaker 3 (22:03):
And then you know, be open to listening to us.
We're not none of you know. I get there for
a reason. We're here for a reason. Your lawyers are
here for a reason. We're trying to do what's best.
We may be the bearers of bad news. I'm in
the bad news business, that's part of it. But I'm
not working for anybody else. I'm not trying to make
friends with with anybody in the courthouse. I'm trying to
do my best for the people I represent.
Speaker 2 (22:25):
Yeah, all right, thanks Jeff for good stuff to hear.
I think very good stuff for the audience. And I
suspect you've got a lot more to tell and maybe
we'll see you again.
Speaker 3 (22:33):
I'd love it. Yeah, thank you.
Speaker 1 (22:34):
And if you need Jeff's services, you go to Simpson
Lawtledo dot Com. We'll be back with our second segment
in just a moment.
Speaker 2 (22:41):
Did you know our area has over forty thousand businesses.
Some are old, some are new, but they all have
a story to tell about why they sell, How someone
took a chance once upon a time, someone with a
heart for business. Hi, this is Lane Monts, the host
of the Better Business Bureaus Heart for Business podcast. We
know a thing or two about our area's companies. After all,
(23:01):
we've been keeping tabs on them.
Speaker 4 (23:03):
Since nineteen nineteen.
Speaker 2 (23:04):
Join me in Toledo radio legend Fred la Fever every
week as our BBB superheroes tell their origin story and
share a few industry secrets along the way. Welcome back
to the program, second part of episode ten. Thanks Fred
for guiding us in. I have in the studio today,
Bill and Tony Worm's father and son from Technical Roofing.
Speaker 4 (23:24):
Is it Technical Roofing.
Speaker 2 (23:25):
Services, Technical Roofing, Technical Roofing out of Saint Henry, Ohio?
Speaker 4 (23:30):
Where is Saint Henry, Ohio?
Speaker 2 (23:32):
I thought I knew every town in this half of Ohio,
but I don't know Saint Henry.
Speaker 5 (23:37):
Good question, Yeah, little town maybe close to Grand Lake,
Saint Mary's If you've heard Grand Lake Saint Mary's.
Speaker 1 (23:44):
Right by Solina. Yeah, where I started my radio career.
I used to sell spots in Saint Henry and Defiance
and Mariah Stein I got you how to say it correctly,
and all of those little places all around there.
Speaker 5 (23:59):
You got us. Now we're ten minutes away.
Speaker 2 (24:01):
Isn't Salina where they have the amphibious cars every year
that drive down the street as cars and then they
drive right into the lake and got it. Yeah, that's
claim to fame in Solina.
Speaker 1 (24:10):
Any Really, we didn't have that when I was there.
We had the carp Festival.
Speaker 5 (24:14):
That's been a while.
Speaker 1 (24:15):
They had a giant carp they was part of the festival,
and in the year before, a couple of years before
I got there, it had burned to the ground and
that was the big thing. When I was there late seventies,
they had rebuilt the carp and we did the carp
Festival downtown. Of course, the city, well the city itself
hasn't changed much, but that's probably true with where you
(24:35):
guys are from, too, right, it's still that old hometown
Americana kind of feel to it.
Speaker 5 (24:41):
Yes, a small town.
Speaker 1 (24:42):
Yeah, does that make it easier for you guys to
do work. Have you spread out or is there enough
business in you know, Mariah Steine and Device and Saint
Henry and all those places.
Speaker 6 (24:53):
What's good where we're located is that we're kind of
centralized in our radius to hit some big cities like
columb Miss Indie, Hurt Wayne, Okay, Toledo, all within a
two hour radius. So that's all local.
Speaker 1 (25:07):
So that's your radius is like you figured, within two hours,
you can do any of the jobs you need to do.
Speaker 4 (25:12):
Yes, sir.
Speaker 2 (25:12):
So what Fred doesn't know and what most listeners wouldn't
know because you're a bit of a rare bird in roofing.
You are a flat roof commercial roofing primarily correct a
correcte heah, So it's very technical. It's not just a
regular residential roofer that you hear so much about for homes.
You guys are doing businesses and big square footage roofing.
Speaker 4 (25:32):
Correct.
Speaker 5 (25:33):
Absolutely absolutely, let's hear.
Speaker 4 (25:35):
That story, Bill tell us because you're the founder, right.
Speaker 5 (25:38):
Yeah, yep. We originated in say Henry, I've been in
the roofing industry about thirty five years, but we originated
our technical roofing in two thousand and six and say,
Henry Ohio doing commercial industrial roofing flat roufing. Our specialty
(25:58):
is Dura last that it's the membrane and when installed,
that's the membrane.
Speaker 1 (26:02):
We love.
Speaker 5 (26:03):
Our guys are all trained. Everybody, everybody in our company
has come through the field, besides the girl that writes
the checks.
Speaker 1 (26:12):
Is that like an industry standard that you talked.
Speaker 5 (26:16):
About industry standard? Not necessarily you know, people coming through
the field.
Speaker 6 (26:22):
That's what makes us great.
Speaker 5 (26:23):
That's what Yes, that's what go ahead.
Speaker 6 (26:26):
That's what makes us great is everyone that sells the
roofs has been through the whole process, knows everything on
how to install, how to service, how to maintenance.
Speaker 1 (26:35):
Where does that come from? Dad?
Speaker 4 (26:37):
For sure? Absolutely?
Speaker 1 (26:39):
Good answer? Good answer son? So Dad, where you said
you've been in the business for a long time. Yes,
see obviously you're working for somebody else at one point,
at one point, So when did that light go off
that you know what, I could be an entrepreneur and
start my own business.
Speaker 5 (26:56):
In two thousand and six. I mean, you always have
that Excuse me, you always have that desire I think
at one time. But uh, I do believe everything happens
for a reason and timing was another reason. So the
timing was two thousand and six, and it's like, hey,
(27:16):
we got to do this. We just got to make
a jump.
Speaker 4 (27:19):
Uh scary.
Speaker 1 (27:20):
Were you prepared?
Speaker 5 (27:22):
Uh?
Speaker 1 (27:23):
Because we talk on the air a lot about all
the different things that go along with starting your own business.
A lawyer and the banking and all the stuff. People
don't think about which taxes you have to pay, what
government agencies you got to do it?
Speaker 5 (27:36):
Were you ready for as far as being totally prepared, No,
the decision was made. So once the decisions made, you
make everything else happened.
Speaker 1 (27:45):
When you jumped off that cliff you need to do.
It's fine to help you needed, right.
Speaker 2 (27:49):
I don't know if anybody's ever said yes, and you
know all the that's true all in all the business
business entrepreneurs I've talked to, and you say, were you
ready for it?
Speaker 4 (27:58):
I don't know if I remember.
Speaker 2 (27:59):
It's a It is a jump off a cliff, like
Fred said, And I don't know if people really understand
how hard it is to start start something from complete scratch.
There's a lot of ways things can go wrong. So
just to have a business like yours around this long
at says a lot I think.
Speaker 5 (28:14):
Yeah. I mean that's what they say is jump in
with both feet, and that's what we did. And there
was no turning back, always looking through the windshield.
Speaker 4 (28:22):
Yeah, every review mayor.
Speaker 1 (28:23):
So do Dad get a paycheck the first year?
Speaker 5 (28:26):
Skinny? Skinny?
Speaker 2 (28:29):
Are you the oldest son, the only son? Did you
have to wear hand me downs and play whatever sports
your older brothers might have played?
Speaker 4 (28:35):
That's typical right now, I'm the oldest son.
Speaker 6 (28:37):
We do have two other Two of my brothers are
also in the business, have been in for five eight years.
Speaker 4 (28:42):
Yeah, are they working under you?
Speaker 3 (28:44):
Do?
Speaker 4 (28:44):
You have to boss them around.
Speaker 6 (28:45):
That we're a great team. But if I need to
sure there you go.
Speaker 2 (28:49):
Put the hammer down and then Dad will put the
hammer down if it gets too personal, right, yeah.
Speaker 5 (28:54):
Yeah, not too many hammering that needs done. Okay, we
all get along, well, we all uh kind of have
our own roles and yeah.
Speaker 1 (29:05):
So it was Dad's choice to do this? Is it
was it yours and your brother's choice to follow in
his footsteps because you liked it, or because you saw
what he was doing and thought, well, I got to
back him up. I got his back.
Speaker 6 (29:19):
Well, you know, I was in college and then I
don't know, he reached out to me, said, hey, you
want to come work for us, and I thought, yeah,
I'll be a roofer. And then day one I go home,
What am I doing?
Speaker 4 (29:33):
Yeah?
Speaker 6 (29:33):
What am I doing?
Speaker 2 (29:35):
But no, just imagine your dad with kids making that change,
right sixteen, eight eighteen years ago? Right, eighteen or nineteen
years ago, Bill, And I know that eighteen or nineteen
years does not encompass your whole career, right, So there
must have been a change. There's a pivot at some point,
and you started from scratch on your own business and
you had kids. Yes, yeah, so you really had to
(29:56):
jump in.
Speaker 5 (29:58):
Things like that are scary, but it's a commitment, you know.
So once you decide to do that, like I said,
there was no looking back. We're going to make it.
We're going to do whatever it takes to make it.
And that's what we've done. So here we are.
Speaker 1 (30:13):
You feel like you're at this point that you're successful
with what you've done in the area that you're in
the two hour radius that you deal in.
Speaker 5 (30:23):
I think we have a very successful business and an
even better reputation.
Speaker 1 (30:28):
Oh okay, so.
Speaker 5 (30:31):
We're still never satisfied where we're at in our business. Roles.
We have high goals. All that comes with service and
taking care of our people and taking care of our clients.
Speaker 1 (30:43):
We talked with somebody earlier from I believe it was
Fort Jennings, right, yep, from Fort Jennings, and one of
the things that he talked about was the fact that
he came from a small place like Saint Henry and
that coming from a small place like that infused how
he dealt with customers and how he dealt with other
businesses and stuff. Do you two find that to be
(31:05):
the truth also with what you do?
Speaker 6 (31:08):
Yeah, I mean small town, everybody knows everybody and you
got to trust your neighbors. And that's what people looked
us for us, is they trust us, and we take
big respect in that and make sure we follow through
on that.
Speaker 1 (31:22):
It's funny because that's the same words that he used
almost as small town and trust, So that came from
dad obviously. How important is that to you to have
that trust with your customers?
Speaker 5 (31:33):
Oh, it's it's it's huge.
Speaker 3 (31:35):
You know.
Speaker 5 (31:37):
When we started. When I started, I was forty, you know,
he's not a young young guy.
Speaker 1 (31:42):
No, So when you're asking people, hey, I got a
brand new business, trust me to do a good job, right, corract.
Speaker 2 (31:49):
And these are these are large roofs, they are complicated,
they are commercial. You know, for every residential roofer, there's
probably twenty of those for every commercial flat like yourself
at least.
Speaker 4 (32:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (32:01):
And the dollar volume of what's under that roof that
could be damaged if the roof doesn't succeed in some way,
if the roof fails, the dollar value under there is significant. Correct,
There's really not room for error, you know, So tell
us a little bit about that kind of work that
you're that you're doing and how much of it's new,
how much of its service.
Speaker 4 (32:21):
I know that there's a component of both, there's got
to be.
Speaker 6 (32:24):
So we have several departments. We have our service department,
which runs you know, three vans, a couple guys all
day every day, fixing leaks on older roofs, maintaining older roofs,
restoring older roofs with like a roof coating. And then
we have our residential division, which we have Mitch as
our residential manager, Tanners our service manager.
Speaker 4 (32:43):
Flat roofs on homes, you talk about.
Speaker 6 (32:45):
Flat roofs on homes, on commercial and restaurants, anything manufacturing
and then our residential division we do shingles and metal,
a couple different styles of metal. And then we also
have a DNS seamless spouting doing five inch, six inch
and seven inch seamless out as well.
Speaker 4 (33:01):
Wow, that I did not know.
Speaker 6 (33:02):
On top of our commercial division.
Speaker 1 (33:05):
Was there a decision made when you started? Did you
start it as a as a flat roof place. It
was a yes, flat roof commercial industrial roofing. We did
no residential and that's and that's what we're used to.
And uh we just kind of expanded on that. Our
gutter division came from a next door neighbors selling his
(33:28):
five inch really seamless gutter and uh so that happened
within two weeks. We I don't know if we were
quite ready for it, but we did it, you know,
jumped in and you go.
Speaker 4 (33:42):
It's an addiction, is that it's a thrill to kill
type of thing.
Speaker 5 (33:46):
Yeah, you set it out there, we're going to get it. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (33:51):
Is there someplace else for you to go? Could you?
You seem just from these couple of examples like the
kind of guy who if the opportunity to rise, you
you're going to go, Yeah, let's do that. Is there
someplace else for you to go now.
Speaker 2 (34:04):
Or where's the farther where's the farthest you've traveled to?
Like and is a corollary that question, how far away
have you gone?
Speaker 5 (34:10):
Selma, Alabama?
Speaker 1 (34:11):
Get out of here? Really?
Speaker 6 (34:13):
Yeah in the summertime?
Speaker 1 (34:15):
How did you get that job?
Speaker 5 (34:17):
Our radius is extremely strong, Our client base is extremely strong.
So that was a client that had something down in Alabama.
Speaker 1 (34:27):
So somebody that trusted you enough to say, come down
to Alabama and do it for me, because there ain't
nobody down here who can do it.
Speaker 5 (34:32):
You got it? Nobody does it like us?
Speaker 1 (34:36):
What makes you different? Then? See in my mind because
I was in a flat roof building before where the
old radio station was, and I swear to god, it
seemed like every six months we were having some guy
come out because we were having leaks in different studios
and stuff. And as a Lane pointed out, that's a
lot of money when you're talking about a you know,
(34:57):
a leak coming down on this kind of equipment. And
it just seemed like it was constant. So what do
you do That's that's so different from everybody else?
Speaker 5 (35:06):
Ours is us. We're very very service oriented. So our
approach is let us try to maintain and service and
extend the life of your existing rough. Okay, you know
not every rough needs replaced. When someone calls us when
you have those kind of problems, uh so we assess
(35:27):
the rough. We're always eyes on. Okay, there's there's no dronage,
there's no anything.
Speaker 1 (35:34):
You're up there walking around.
Speaker 5 (35:35):
We walk at first well made. We may drone it
so before we can get before and after photos. But
we're eyes on. We're old school. We shake hands, we
talk to people. We give a very true assessment. Yes
we can save it. We can do this might cost
two times or might have us in two times a
year m m, but you might get another four or
(35:57):
five six years out of it. That builds our really
relationship with our clients.
Speaker 2 (36:01):
And that's a high dollar I mean, a big roof
over a commercial facility is high dollars. So if you
can extend the life, that's a real benefit to property owners.
Speaker 5 (36:09):
Sure. Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (36:11):
Now we're familiar with things that happen, like you know
on my roof at my home, high winds, things like that,
the sun beating down on all the time, shingles getting old,
and stuff like that. What are the problems with those
flat roofs, same kind of things.
Speaker 6 (36:25):
Flat roofs, you know they're going to last you thirty years.
And the warranties really oh yeah, and the warranties that
we have that we can offer through our manufacturer are
outstanding twenty year labor and material.
Speaker 4 (36:36):
So the labor's in there right, Yeah, that's big.
Speaker 6 (36:38):
And we also offer technical does on top of that,
free annual inspections that will actually call you on your
roof birthday okay and come up and just inspect the roof,
make sure you're all good to go at no cost.
Speaker 1 (36:50):
Okay, Well that is something special then absolutely, yeah, because
I don't get on I don't get that in my house.
That would be nice to say half on your house. Yeah,
sow many places are dealing with right now. Do you
figure that you're going out and inspecting every year on
their birthday? Oh?
Speaker 6 (37:06):
I mean on any given day, we may have five
or six pass gone on just those Absolutely, we.
Speaker 5 (37:11):
Have thousands and thousands.
Speaker 4 (37:13):
This is why I loved Technical Roofing.
Speaker 2 (37:16):
I'm so glad you reached out to be on the
program because the small businesses, family owned, small and medium
sized businesses, they are the backbone of the Better Business Bureau.
We're grateful to have the large companies, of course, Lazy
Boy and Owen's Corning and stuff. Those are great names
to have in But I got twenty four counties, and
twenty three of them are rural, you know. And I
(37:38):
love the idea of a family business, the small town values.
I know Fred likes it too, because he's always talking
about it. And you live in Wallbridge. It's not a
big town. And I just feel like that's the backbone
of the American economy and.
Speaker 4 (37:50):
I just that's I was super happy that you reached out. Awesome.
Speaker 1 (37:54):
I do you here other than your sons who are
working for you? Where else are you finding people? Because, like,
like your son said, I never thought I wanted to
be a roofer, and I can't imagine there's a lot
of high school kids.
Speaker 4 (38:07):
Did you say You're still not sure?
Speaker 1 (38:09):
Probably not a lot of high school kids going out
of there. Man, I can't wait to graduate. I want
to get up on one of those roofs and sell Alabama.
So how do you find the people that you're hiring?
And then what do you do afterwards? Is there some
kind of mentorship going on?
Speaker 5 (38:23):
Our training is extremely well done. Specific. Safety is always first.
You know how to install the roofs the last thing
you learned. Okay, we want everybody safe. That's what it's
all about. For the longest time, our whole UH team
(38:46):
was either family, friends, or someone referred to us. So
we are extremely close net net group of people.
Speaker 1 (38:58):
Just putting rough makes sense because and that also there's
a level of trust in all of that, just like
you work to get with your customers right.
Speaker 2 (39:06):
Absolutely if you if you go to their website, by
the way, that definitely shows through. It definitely shows through.
I saw that theme throughout it. That's another reason why
I was excited to have you on the program.
Speaker 1 (39:17):
The website is technical roofing dot com by the way,
if you want to check it out Technical roofing dot com.
If they go up there, what are they going to find.
Speaker 4 (39:25):
On our website.
Speaker 6 (39:27):
They're gonna find past job photos, They're gonna find our
team descriptions on our team members. UH talks you know
about our culture and just to speak on you know,
getting people in. It's anybody can get people in. It's
how you keep them right. And we provide growth plans
for all of our people goals PPF goals really. Oh yeah,
(39:48):
help them with that and and provide them. Hey, we
want you to grow here, we want you to stay here.
And the culture is huge with us, and you'll see
that through the website.
Speaker 4 (39:58):
It comes through our so clearly.
Speaker 3 (40:00):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (40:00):
Now, so I see where he gets his all right,
where Tony gets his? So where did you get that
work ethic, that trust ethic? Does that come from your folks?
Because what did they do to get you to that point?
Speaker 5 (40:13):
Oh? Yeah, oh yeah, you know, unfortunately my dad passed.
I was pretty pretty darn young when my dad passed. Uh,
my mom and my older siblings took took over. So, uh,
you always learn to work hard. You got certain things
to do right after school. Uh, it was working. I've
(40:38):
always worked two jobs really always, So I had an
eight hour job if it was strictly eight uh, and
then build houses on the side or I bar attended
or so. I mean there was always strong work ethic.
Speaker 1 (40:53):
Yeah, saying that doesn't happen that much anymore.
Speaker 5 (40:56):
I know, I feel extremely fortunate with my boy boys
and our whole group, so extremely Yeah.
Speaker 1 (41:03):
It sounds like it starts at the top works its
way down.
Speaker 4 (41:06):
Plant corn, you get corn?
Speaker 5 (41:08):
Yeah, they ever heard.
Speaker 1 (41:11):
Before front corn Corny, I worked in Salona. I heard
a lot of old adages, believe me. Okay, yeah, oh yeah,
I know. I know those go back a long, long way.
So what do you see in the next five years
for you guys? Do you have plans to retire at
some point and turn everything over to Tony who never
wanted to be a roof from the first place? I
(41:33):
love it now, man, I love it.
Speaker 5 (41:35):
They have plans for me to retire?
Speaker 1 (41:37):
Oh do they?
Speaker 2 (41:38):
Okay, So let me tell you about a product idea
I have, and I was going to pitch it to Souder.
It was going to be a business desk that folded
up into a coffin when the founder passed away. Yeah,
I pitched that to my old boss and he called
me a son of a pup He didn't call my
son of a puppy.
Speaker 4 (41:53):
And he never wanted to really.
Speaker 2 (41:54):
Retire either, and his son was trying to get him
to retire, and uh, he never did.
Speaker 4 (41:59):
He never did.
Speaker 2 (42:00):
He passed away still working, And so I just thought
that's cute. But a lot of a lot of entrepreneurs
that lead a family like you're doing, Bill, that created
a culture that comes from you and continues on. As
long as you're making a difference, right, and you're having impact,
why retire exactly?
Speaker 4 (42:18):
Sorry about that.
Speaker 1 (42:19):
That's out. We don't We don't want them out.
Speaker 6 (42:21):
He's got to keep selling.
Speaker 5 (42:22):
I love what I do, and I think that spreads
down with these guys. He just said it to Tony
did uh. It's it's all about I mean, everybody's smiling
every day when we're in we get together, made fun. Yeah,
we make it fun.
Speaker 1 (42:38):
Well, the key is to enjoy it. I always told
my kids, find something you like to do first, and
then worry about somebody paying you for it later. Because
you don't want to wake up every morning.
Speaker 4 (42:48):
You go, I got I go to work again.
Speaker 1 (42:50):
You want to wake up every morning and go great,
I get to go and work with all these people
that I really like doing something that and and the
person we spoke to earlier carpenter and a builder. And
I'm sure same thing holds true for you. Every day
is different because every roof is different, and then problem
that you're gonna deal with is different.
Speaker 5 (43:08):
Right, You're right. Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (43:10):
My philosophy is, and it's on a plaque in the
BBB is one do your job. Two be nice three
have fun for do your job right, because it's on
there twice for a reason. But you know, if you're
not going to have fun at work right, you got
to spend a lot of your time at work. You
spend eight to ten hours a day there. That's more
than you spend in the evening having fun. You might
(43:32):
as well try to find a way to love what
you do.
Speaker 4 (43:34):
If it's at all possible. It makes a difference, and
we do.
Speaker 6 (43:37):
And our guys are great and they're fun to be around,
and you know, we do things outside of work, parades
and get togethers, and we all go kayaking together in
the summertime. Like it's again speaking on that culture and
our team and it is fun now.
Speaker 1 (43:51):
That culture of camaraderie really really helps a lot when
it comes to making a good business. It sounds like
you guys have managed to do that at Technical Roofing.
Speaker 2 (44:00):
Well, thanks guys for coming in. It's a long drive.
I appreciate you coming in, Fred and I both do.
And if you'd like to come back again, we'd love
to have you, you know, at another time, and we'll
also talk about you might want to write an article
on our Torch News newsletter there's something to that, but
that's for another time. I want to thank the audience,
whether you're business or consumer, thank you for listening. This
has been a heart for business with Laine Mons and
(44:22):
Fred Lafever and we'll see you again next time.
Speaker 1 (44:25):
We'll be back, of course, and if you'd like to
know more about Technical Roofing, go to their website technicalroofing
dot com.
Welcome to A Heart for Business. I'm Fred Lafever and
along with Lane Months, President CEO the Better Business Bureau
of Northwest Ohio and Southeast Michigan, we'll highlight a local
business weekly. You'll discover why these small local business owners
have a passion for what they do and why the
(00:26):
Better Business Bureau has a heart for business. Now here's
Laane Months.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
Welcome to the program. Every one, episode ten of A
Heart for Business. I'm here in downtown Toledo with Fred
Lafever and just want to point out he's the only
true professional in the room when it comes to broadcast media.
He keeps me on track and tries to keep me
from looking like an idiot. So thanks for joining the program.
As always, we have two guests today. The first guest
(00:54):
today Jeff Simpson, attorney, attorney in downtown Toledo. Good morning, Jeff, sir,
Yeah are you yeah?
Speaker 1 (01:01):
Good?
Speaker 2 (01:01):
So, Jeff, thanks for coming onto the program where I'm
looking forward to the first attorney to be on the program.
By the way, oh good, I'm setting the bar and
just so the audience knows, Fred's that's so good. Fred
confirmed that Jeff is ready to make a fool of himself,
but I don't think that's going to happen. Jeff is
too composed. So Jeff, tell us about your journey to
(01:22):
become an attorney and where you practice and what you
practice in well.
Speaker 3 (01:26):
I practice in Toledo. I've been here almost twenty years
in a law school at University of Toledo. I practice
in criminal defense and family law all over northwest Ohio,
depending on the case. I am a member of Leader
Legal Aid Society as a public defender to two judges
here in Lucas County, both Stacey Cook and Linday Navarre.
(01:48):
I've been doing this for a very long time, very
long time.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
Is that an unusual combination?
Speaker 3 (01:53):
It can be. It suits my having two it's a
new mind all we're doing having uh, having more than
one public defender in a courtroom. Okay, so a number
of us have two judges to whom we are responsible,
but there's always somebody else in that courtroom. So it's
it's it's usually my full day Wednesday to be in
(02:16):
the courthouse, oh okay, unless there's a trial schedule or
hearing scheduled otherwise, So it kind of works for my
schedule able to prep those those clients.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
What does what does that mean that you're in a courtroom?
So that's I didn't do criminal law, so I steered
clear of that only when I get speeding tickets and
I get in trouble. But uh, what does that mean
when you're in the courtroom with a judge. I don't
quite understand that.
Speaker 3 (02:38):
Each each of the ten judges here and most criminal
dockets have specific times of the week that they will
have their criminal docket so that they can coordinate with
the Lucas County Sheriff or other agencies to bring uh
defendants and for scheduling purposes. So it's it's blocked out
throughout the week. So Stacy Judge Stacy Cook has Wednesday
morning as her main main docket. Judge Lindes Navar has
(03:01):
Wednesday afternoon as her main docket. They may have other
times during the week for other uses. Today, for instance,
I was in front of Judge Stacy Cook for a
couple of cases that need to be done, like we
couldn't get too on Wednesday. But they usually have blocks
of time through the week to be able to do
their criminal work.
Speaker 2 (03:18):
So any criminal defendant that you're representing as a public
defender will be that time, or even an even non
public defender but private higher both.
Speaker 3 (03:26):
Yeah, the whole criminal docket for that week mostly will
be on Wednesday.
Speaker 2 (03:30):
Yeah, a lot of people don't know, but the criminal
docket really does control the courtroom's docket overall. It always
superseded my civil cases.
Speaker 3 (03:38):
It certainly can. You've got constitutional rights, You've got constitutional
times for people to be in custody in times that
the Supreme Court of Ohio wants these cases disposed of.
So to be sure, I hear always that a criminal case,
if it goes to trial or hearing, will kick, which
is a word for us to say, to reschedule a
civil manner. And there has been times sometimes when a
(04:00):
civil matter will take priority. That's if it's been pending
for a couple of years and enough is enough and
it needs to go to jury or something. But it's
it is very it is rather rare.
Speaker 4 (04:08):
We never tried.
Speaker 2 (04:09):
I don't recall a time in my thirty years that
I ever trumped the criminal docket, and not once.
Speaker 1 (04:14):
Yeah, is there still a backup from five years ago
when when we hit COVID or has that been cleared
out pretty much?
Speaker 3 (04:20):
We cleared that out pretty well, we were all still
working during COVID, those of us who could go to
court and did with masks and types of things. I'm
younger and so on my colleagues, so I was able
to go to the municipal court and handle some things.
So we we've long since cleared that up.
Speaker 1 (04:36):
So they're looking back at the at the five years
of COVID, and one of the things that they talked
about five years ago was, oh, there's this huge backlog
of cases. Uh, and the speedy trials that we were
talking about weren't getting handled. But apparently, oh we were.
Speaker 3 (04:49):
We've all got well, some of them weren't because of
because of we couldn't do things. But we've since since
that time fixed it pretty pretty well.
Speaker 4 (04:56):
Okay, Okay, So Jeff, did you start? I got a
law school in criminal law, and what's the origin story there?
Speaker 3 (05:03):
I did well.
Speaker 1 (05:04):
I was.
Speaker 3 (05:04):
I got sworn in on a Tuesday, and at that
time people were not hiring lawyers. The market was rather.
Speaker 1 (05:15):
Soft.
Speaker 2 (05:16):
I don't understand it, because we're so likable too. Lawyers
are so likable. We're warm and fuzzy.
Speaker 3 (05:22):
In two thousand and six, when I got sworn in,
there was too many of us. There were too many
of us twenty years ago, and so I had heard
somewhere that you could take appointments in criminal cases from
the courthouse, and so on that Wednesday, I got dressed
up and I went to the courthouse into the court
Administrator's office on the third floor, and in a joking,
(05:42):
kind of funny way, walk in and said, I'm a lawyer.
Now give me some clients, you know, did you really? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (05:49):
I did, And so they said, okay.
Speaker 4 (05:51):
What's our way of begging Fred?
Speaker 3 (05:54):
They said, okay, come with me, and I saw They
walked me to the next available which would have been
Thursday morning, to ruth Ann Franks, who had since retired.
She said, they said, your honored, this is a new lawyer.
He wants to have clients. And she said, okay, be
here tomorrow day thirty. And I was and I was
assigned a family two robbery case.
Speaker 5 (06:13):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (06:15):
Did you feel confident?
Speaker 4 (06:17):
Yes?
Speaker 1 (06:17):
And that really why.
Speaker 3 (06:18):
Because I did the work. Okay, I read everything I could,
I did the work, I talked to colleagues, I did
all that stuff. So it was a we had a
good favorable outcome for what the evidence was.
Speaker 1 (06:30):
But I don't mean just that case, I mean going
into it before you did all the research on that
particular case. Were you that confident in your abilities that
you you know, like you said, you went over there
and said, give me clients. Were you that confident in that?
And why was that? Well?
Speaker 3 (06:46):
I mean I'd been through school, I've been to the testing,
I've been through the bar. Everybody goes, we all do
that stuff. Success in life, at least what I've seen
often isn't the only regulator, but often comes to effort.
And if I can put for I know my work capacity,
I know what I can do. That gave me confidence
(07:08):
I will figure this out. Will take a step by step.
I know what an arraignment is. It might that Thursday
morning I got that client. I don't have to deal
with Guilton since that day. I had to get through.
Right now, get to the next part. Then we get
to the next part, and then I'll do the work
on discovery, and we'll do all those things, and I'll
meet with him at the jail and we'll come to
whatever the outcome will become the outcome. So, yes, there
(07:30):
wasn't a whole lot of Now, clearly I was nervous.
Various other parts of it. But I knew that I
could do this. This felt right to me the entire time.
Speaker 2 (07:39):
And criminal defense attorneys the good ones. They are a
different breed and they if they're good, they're confident and
they will work hard.
Speaker 1 (07:46):
Yeah, I think you'd have to be.
Speaker 4 (07:48):
They separate themselves out.
Speaker 2 (07:49):
I think from the other attorneys in the pack that
I really believe that.
Speaker 3 (07:53):
It is a it's a tough one. It's a tough business.
It leaves a mark. I know a lot of really
scary facts about a lot of scary things things. A
lot of the cases I have are.
Speaker 4 (08:03):
Hear some no name for every name, just use my
name for my name. When yeah, you.
Speaker 3 (08:10):
Get to remember, I'm dealing with people. I'm representing people
at their worst, so they I get them. I'm usually
the last I'd say this every time everyone. I'm the
last guy to the party. Everything else happened, and I'm
either hired or appointed from somebody who is in need.
So they're already at an eleven. Everything is falling apart
(08:31):
around them. They've lost their job, they're separated from their family.
So I now have to deal with that high emotion.
Then we get to the facts of it and they
read sometimes awful, awful facts, and I look at the
photographs and this injury here, and this injury here, this
injury here, and we just deal with a lot of
really negative, high emotional incidences.
Speaker 2 (08:55):
And you're really all they've got at that point, because
the government's pretty well healed, the persecutor to be, the
prosecutor is well on track, they've got advanced notice of
the case. You're always starting from behind the eight ball.
I gotta believe that's right. Yeah, And I tell everyone
time is our ally, it's not theirs. The more time
we spend, the better we are. You know, they know
things before I do. I have to ask for the reports.
(09:17):
I have to ask for this stuff. They already have them,
they're ready to go. And so one of the things
that I have a lot with my clients is setting
a timeline. You know, this is not going to be
over fast. Speed is not your friend in any litigation.
You know, speed is not your friend. These cases have
to develop. I have to talk to witnesses, I have
to do my diligence. I have to do the research
and that kind of stuff that's going to take time.
(09:38):
And some understand, some don't, but some do.
Speaker 1 (09:40):
It that I can see. I can see. I mean,
you're in the situation. I'm the one that committed the
crime or alleged crime, so I know everything that's gone.
I know the cops have already arrested me. I know
what they know. Then all of a sudden, I'm looking
at you across the table and I'm thinking, hey, you
should be up to par r r. That's that's right.
Speaker 3 (09:58):
They think it moves a lot faster than actually and
the procedural rules keep that from happening for a variety
of reasons and interests, both you know, constitutional and procedural.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
And from human anxiety. You're in a terrible, terrible situation.
You just want it to be over. Sometimes people just
want it to be over, regardless of the outcome, and
of course you want to bring them to the best
outcome possible.
Speaker 4 (10:19):
Yeah, that's going to take some patience.
Speaker 3 (10:21):
And I hear that all the time. I hear that
both in my family law practice and my criminal practice.
And my response is great, we'll just plead guilty to
everything right now. I'll get this over in two minutes.
And then they go, okay, well, okay, we didn't mean that.
Once you mean to say you want this to be
done efficiently, which is that middle ground between speed and work. Okay,
we want to be efficient with how we do things. Okay,
(10:42):
we're not gonna We're gonna take our time, but not
gonna waste time. Okay. So a lot of times, especially
in divorce, I just want to be divorced from him. Okay, well,
let's give up your retirement, let's give up the house
and the kids, and you can just you can beat
I can get you divorced. That's not a problem. You know,
they will bend over backwards for us in the courtroom
to get this thing over with. But let's just let's
efficient about things. Let's do the work, let's put the
time into it. You didn't get married on the spur
(11:05):
of the moment, most likely, let's not get you divorced
on the spur of the moment.
Speaker 4 (11:09):
Sure, if you wave the white flag, I guess it
can be over quickly.
Speaker 1 (11:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (11:12):
Absolutely, Yeah, But then that's pretty pretty bad.
Speaker 2 (11:14):
I also, and again, not a criminal lawyer and not
a fam The only, like I was telling Fred, the
only domestic relations case that I ever handled was my
own divorce. And that was enough for me, right, that
was enough for me at that courthouse and that process.
But I do believe in criminal law, there's also some
the court likes to see it. I think sometimes they
like to see things drag out. They've got an ankle
(11:37):
monitor maybe on the defendant. They want to see if
that defendant's going to be a repeat offender, or you know,
they like to I don't know, is that my wrong
about that?
Speaker 3 (11:45):
No, not necessarily. It is how one acts while on
an R bond or an EMU bond is important for
ultimate you know, sentencing. That is a relevant factor for
how we how the court could sentence a defendant.
Speaker 2 (11:57):
And if you speed it up too fast, the court
doesn't have the benefit fit of your good behavior, assuming
you're going to give that good behavior.
Speaker 3 (12:03):
Most of the judges are by practice for the in fact,
all of them will allow us to do the work,
and so they're not really second guessing lawyers too much.
If we go in and say, you're, honor, we're at
a pre trial right now, discovery has been exchanged, we're
working the case. We need two or three weeks to
come to either a resolution or a position to know
that this case will be tried. They usually give it
to us without a whole lot of you know, micromanaging
(12:24):
or asking. Sometimes they get a little bit bothered if
a case is up for a seventh pre trial that
you're asking for a while, you know, a reset trial date,
they're going to ask you. You know, what's why, you
know what's going on. But that kind of stuff that's
very rare. You know, most of the judges will allow
us to do the work if you know we're doing it.
Speaker 1 (12:41):
So how do you how do you talk to people
about the frustration level that we have on the outside. Uh,
because I'm sure you hear it too from just the
general public. I don't know why they just can't get Look,
the guy's obviously guilty, you know, I don't know why
this is dragging on so long? Why does this guy
I have seven pre trial hearing, seven appeals and all
(13:03):
this stuff. But we know we did it. Why can't
they just move it along?
Speaker 3 (13:06):
This is the wonderful thing about our system. And this
is what I tell everyone that we celebrate on my
favorite day, which is fourth of July, which is a
lawyer's holiday. There were no battles on the fourth of
July seventeen seventy six. A lot of people got together
signed a petition and mailed it. That's a lawyer's holiday.
Speaker 4 (13:26):
What we what we what way to spin it? Jeff,
I don't has ever thought of it. I love it.
I that's what spin. I mean the spin.
Speaker 3 (13:33):
You know that that is a day that we said
this is our system of government that from that time
we've set through the through the Constitution and through the
Bill of Rights, how we do things. One of the
wonderful things about our country is that he has seven
pre trials, is that he has all We want to
make sure we get it right, not get it done.
Speaker 4 (13:52):
We traded due process for tyranny.
Speaker 3 (13:54):
That's right.
Speaker 4 (13:55):
We said we don't want tyranny.
Speaker 2 (13:56):
And we'll take a process that can be hopefully fair
across the board. It's going to take longer because tyranny
can be very quick.
Speaker 4 (14:03):
Yeah, yep.
Speaker 2 (14:03):
The King's judgment was very swift, but we've traded that
for something else and more that we think is more valuable.
Speaker 3 (14:09):
Henry the eighth was very fast.
Speaker 4 (14:11):
Yeah. We don't super efficient.
Speaker 3 (14:13):
So one of the things we do is we set
these procedures as best we can, and of course there's
going to be on the edges and the margins. Examples
of abuse, and examples of things being the wrong way,
But by and large the process works, and by and
large the process is one that we should all feel
confident in going forward.
Speaker 2 (14:29):
I believe that I'm going to ask the flip side
of Fred's question now, because we talked about it a
little bit during show prep, Jeff. The flip side is,
how do you deal with the family and friends who
know that your client is innocent. The public knows they're guilty,
knows I'm putting nose in a verbal quotation marks here.
But the family and friends, they know that person is innocent.
(14:49):
How do you deal with that side of it?
Speaker 3 (14:51):
When they come to me with I'll ask them, Okay,
we need to be objective about this. We need to
be I need to know the evidence. I use them
as as an asset when I can. If have things
and I have this all the time, they will say, well,
I've got this, I've got that will show it to me,
so let's review it. You know, you know, I don't
know as much as you do. Most often, in some
of the cases I have that comes out of a
(15:13):
crime of a human relationship, domestic violence, assault, those types
of things and people around that circumstance and relationship. Will
know far more than I ever. Will you know, I'm
reading pieces of paper, I'm looking at reports, So I'll
say I'm going to use you as an asset. You're
gonna have to come bring me this stuff, let me
look at it, and we'll go from there.
Speaker 6 (15:33):
Will.
Speaker 3 (15:33):
I will tell you it's tough for me to talk
with family because, as I read the ethical rules, I'm
not allowed to tell things to people unless they're my client.
And I take that really seriously. You have to so
a lot of times family doesn't understand that. They may
think of a professional as like you would a an
er physician who comes out to the lobby and says,
this is what I'm experiencing. Well, I don't have that
(15:55):
same type of thing. I really kind of defer to
less information to and friends. So you want to know
what's going on in the case, talk to your true guy.
Speaker 4 (16:03):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:03):
They want you to give affirmation that it's going to
be okay. And then sometimes you know things and it's
not necessarily going to be okay.
Speaker 3 (16:10):
And what I don't want to do is to mismanage
my client's expectation. If I if I say something to
aunt Sheila that she didn't hear, that she heard incorrectly,
and then she tells my client Billy. Now I have
to spend time unraveling what Billy heard from Aunt Sheila,
and in the conflict between Aunt Sheila and me, he's
going to believe An Sheila. So that just wastes everyone's
(16:31):
time too. So just for ease of communication, bring me
the evidence, bring me what you think I will. I
will filter use it as I can to help my client.
But I'm not going to give here's where we are,
here's where the case is going. I can't do that
kind of.
Speaker 1 (16:43):
Yeah, and we see that the example he gave about
the hospital, same thing. You know, the doctor comes out
and he wants to talk to the wife about what's
going on with the husband. Everybody else is standing around.
They're paying half attention because of the heightened emotions of
the system, and they only hear he's going to come
out of this too, He's probably not going to come
out of this, and everything gets twisted around. I'm curious
(17:07):
to go back to something that you mentioned before about
seeing people at their worst. One of the things we've
talked about on the show is that police are in
the same situation. You don't usually see a cop unless
something is wrong. That right, This could be something minor,
but a lot of cases it's something bad. And so
there's a lot of mental health problems with police officers.
Are we finding the same thing with attorneys? I mean,
(17:30):
you're looking at photographs of crime scenes and you're dealing
with people who are at their worst. Do attorneys need
to be more aware of their mental health?
Speaker 4 (17:39):
Should we disclose?
Speaker 3 (17:41):
It's becoming a much more national conversation. I was a
part of a committee through the National Association and Public
Defense that talk about mental health of attorneys and what
we could do to break away from it, and I
learned a lot from that. I, for instance, will at
four forty five, I'm ready to go do something else.
(18:02):
I mean, I'll take homework with me at home. I've
got no problem doing that. But from you know, high
school sports to college sports to you know, staying active
in law school till now at five o'clock, I'm physically
ready to do something else. I can't go until nine
o'clock in my office. I'll take my stuff home, but
I'm going to the gym. I'm going to go do
something else. I'm going to go lift I'm.
Speaker 1 (18:22):
Going to physically. Also works on your emotions.
Speaker 3 (18:25):
That's how I get rid of it. I'm able to
put the headphones on, go to the gym, move some
metal around, move some stuff around. I've got the same
you know, thirty five heavy metal songs. I have been
listening to you since ninety eight, right, you know, a
lot of a lot of the lot of the good stuff.
You know. I've got long hair for a reason, so
(18:46):
you know, the same songs I've been listening to. That
just allows me to be by myself. I don't have
to talk to anybody, have to listen to anybody. I
can focus on what I'm doing.
Speaker 1 (18:54):
And that works for you.
Speaker 3 (18:55):
That works for me. And there's a lot of other
you know outlets. Some people are more social, but we
talked about that in that committee, about how we can
do that stuff. It's becoming a national talking point for
those of us in the industry.
Speaker 2 (19:04):
So, Fred, the incidence of depression, anxiety, and other forms
of mental illness like that among attorneys is two and
a half to three times the rate of the normal
average public. It's a serious problem, and we don't know.
They still don't know. Is that because the profession does
that to you? Or is it because the profession attracts
(19:25):
people that are predisposed to that.
Speaker 4 (19:26):
Or is a little bit of both. It's probably a
little bit of both. I don't know.
Speaker 1 (19:30):
And the thing is, as Jeff also pointed out, though
he can't disclose most of that stuff just like a
doctor because of hippoloss. So it would be I would think,
very difficult for you to sit down with a therapist
and get rid of anything because you can't really give
them anything other than just your feeling.
Speaker 3 (19:50):
How you feel about somebody telling you stuff. It's tough
to go through a really gruesome case and say I
saw this photograph this or this is what I learned,
and that's tough to do. So you have to find
ways to deal with it.
Speaker 1 (20:05):
Is so you sound like you came up with something
that works for you.
Speaker 3 (20:08):
That does Yeah, yeah, that does.
Speaker 4 (20:11):
Jeff, you've got.
Speaker 2 (20:11):
People in the audience listening. What are some points of
advice or advice that you'd like to give to the listeners?
Family members, friends, whomever, business people can just members of
the public. You've got their ear You've been doing it
for twenty years as a criminal defense attorney and other
what kind of things would you like to say that
would help them if they ever have to face this situation.
Speaker 3 (20:34):
Firstly, you have a right to remain silent. Please remain silence. Yes,
I have lost cases because my client thinks at the
side of the road or at the porch, they can
talk their way out of something. I'm not going to
tell you. And I don't take the position that on
(20:54):
every single call a law enforcement officer is going to
make an arrest. But please stop giving them a re
Stop talking about this stuff. You don't have to say anything,
Say your name, handle of your license, and be done.
Stop talking about it, you know, And a lot of
times like well in ov I, you know, the talking
is part of the evidence against you. Speech, the breath,
(21:16):
all that other stuff. So I had a client a
number of years ago in municipal court with his third
ov I. He was stopped at a at a at
a traffic uh you know, kind of like one of
those UH checkpoint checkpoints. They said, we think you're in toxic.
He got out, didn't say a word, shrugged his shoulders.
(21:37):
They had no evidence. We won that case. They had
no evidence. He wasn't saying, well, I just got off
the golf course. I had four or five big of.
Speaker 1 (21:44):
A deal coming from going to He shrugged his shoulders,
rolled his eyes.
Speaker 3 (21:48):
That was the evidence. They couldn't proceed and we were
end up winning. So please, do you know, be honest
if you're going to talk, but you don't have to.
Speaker 1 (21:56):
You don't have to give your idea.
Speaker 4 (22:00):
That's correct, lot anything else. As we wrap up, Jeff, just.
Speaker 3 (22:03):
And then you know, be open to listening to us.
We're not none of you know. I get there for
a reason. We're here for a reason. Your lawyers are
here for a reason. We're trying to do what's best.
We may be the bearers of bad news. I'm in
the bad news business, that's part of it. But I'm
not working for anybody else. I'm not trying to make
friends with with anybody in the courthouse. I'm trying to
do my best for the people I represent.
Speaker 2 (22:25):
Yeah, all right, thanks Jeff for good stuff to hear.
I think very good stuff for the audience. And I
suspect you've got a lot more to tell and maybe
we'll see you again.
Speaker 3 (22:33):
I'd love it. Yeah, thank you.
Speaker 1 (22:34):
And if you need Jeff's services, you go to Simpson
Lawtledo dot Com. We'll be back with our second segment
in just a moment.
Speaker 2 (22:41):
Did you know our area has over forty thousand businesses.
Some are old, some are new, but they all have
a story to tell about why they sell, How someone
took a chance once upon a time, someone with a
heart for business. Hi, this is Lane Monts, the host
of the Better Business Bureaus Heart for Business podcast. We
know a thing or two about our area's companies. After all,
(23:01):
we've been keeping tabs on them.
Speaker 4 (23:03):
Since nineteen nineteen.
Speaker 2 (23:04):
Join me in Toledo radio legend Fred la Fever every
week as our BBB superheroes tell their origin story and
share a few industry secrets along the way. Welcome back
to the program, second part of episode ten. Thanks Fred
for guiding us in. I have in the studio today,
Bill and Tony Worm's father and son from Technical Roofing.
Speaker 4 (23:24):
Is it Technical Roofing.
Speaker 2 (23:25):
Services, Technical Roofing, Technical Roofing out of Saint Henry, Ohio?
Speaker 4 (23:30):
Where is Saint Henry, Ohio?
Speaker 2 (23:32):
I thought I knew every town in this half of Ohio,
but I don't know Saint Henry.
Speaker 5 (23:37):
Good question, Yeah, little town maybe close to Grand Lake,
Saint Mary's If you've heard Grand Lake Saint Mary's.
Speaker 1 (23:44):
Right by Solina. Yeah, where I started my radio career.
I used to sell spots in Saint Henry and Defiance
and Mariah Stein I got you how to say it correctly,
and all of those little places all around there.
Speaker 5 (23:59):
You got us. Now we're ten minutes away.
Speaker 2 (24:01):
Isn't Salina where they have the amphibious cars every year
that drive down the street as cars and then they
drive right into the lake and got it. Yeah, that's
claim to fame in Solina.
Speaker 1 (24:10):
Any Really, we didn't have that when I was there.
We had the carp Festival.
Speaker 5 (24:14):
That's been a while.
Speaker 1 (24:15):
They had a giant carp they was part of the festival,
and in the year before, a couple of years before
I got there, it had burned to the ground and
that was the big thing. When I was there late seventies,
they had rebuilt the carp and we did the carp
Festival downtown. Of course, the city, well the city itself
hasn't changed much, but that's probably true with where you
(24:35):
guys are from, too, right, it's still that old hometown
Americana kind of feel to it.
Speaker 5 (24:41):
Yes, a small town.
Speaker 1 (24:42):
Yeah, does that make it easier for you guys to
do work. Have you spread out or is there enough
business in you know, Mariah Steine and Device and Saint
Henry and all those places.
Speaker 6 (24:53):
What's good where we're located is that we're kind of
centralized in our radius to hit some big cities like
columb Miss Indie, Hurt Wayne, Okay, Toledo, all within a
two hour radius. So that's all local.
Speaker 1 (25:07):
So that's your radius is like you figured, within two hours,
you can do any of the jobs you need to do.
Speaker 4 (25:12):
Yes, sir.
Speaker 2 (25:12):
So what Fred doesn't know and what most listeners wouldn't
know because you're a bit of a rare bird in roofing.
You are a flat roof commercial roofing primarily correct a
correcte heah, So it's very technical. It's not just a
regular residential roofer that you hear so much about for homes.
You guys are doing businesses and big square footage roofing.
Speaker 4 (25:32):
Correct.
Speaker 5 (25:33):
Absolutely absolutely, let's hear.
Speaker 4 (25:35):
That story, Bill tell us because you're the founder, right.
Speaker 5 (25:38):
Yeah, yep. We originated in say Henry, I've been in
the roofing industry about thirty five years, but we originated
our technical roofing in two thousand and six and say,
Henry Ohio doing commercial industrial roofing flat roufing. Our specialty
(25:58):
is Dura last that it's the membrane and when installed,
that's the membrane.
Speaker 1 (26:02):
We love.
Speaker 5 (26:03):
Our guys are all trained. Everybody, everybody in our company
has come through the field, besides the girl that writes
the checks.
Speaker 1 (26:12):
Is that like an industry standard that you talked.
Speaker 5 (26:16):
About industry standard? Not necessarily you know, people coming through
the field.
Speaker 6 (26:22):
That's what makes us great.
Speaker 5 (26:23):
That's what Yes, that's what go ahead.
Speaker 6 (26:26):
That's what makes us great is everyone that sells the
roofs has been through the whole process, knows everything on
how to install, how to service, how to maintenance.
Speaker 1 (26:35):
Where does that come from? Dad?
Speaker 4 (26:37):
For sure? Absolutely?
Speaker 1 (26:39):
Good answer? Good answer son? So Dad, where you said
you've been in the business for a long time. Yes,
see obviously you're working for somebody else at one point,
at one point, So when did that light go off
that you know what, I could be an entrepreneur and
start my own business.
Speaker 5 (26:56):
In two thousand and six. I mean, you always have
that Excuse me, you always have that desire I think
at one time. But uh, I do believe everything happens
for a reason and timing was another reason. So the
timing was two thousand and six, and it's like, hey,
(27:16):
we got to do this. We just got to make
a jump.
Speaker 4 (27:19):
Uh scary.
Speaker 1 (27:20):
Were you prepared?
Speaker 5 (27:22):
Uh?
Speaker 1 (27:23):
Because we talk on the air a lot about all
the different things that go along with starting your own business.
A lawyer and the banking and all the stuff. People
don't think about which taxes you have to pay, what
government agencies you got to do it?
Speaker 5 (27:36):
Were you ready for as far as being totally prepared, No,
the decision was made. So once the decisions made, you
make everything else happened.
Speaker 1 (27:45):
When you jumped off that cliff you need to do.
It's fine to help you needed, right.
Speaker 2 (27:49):
I don't know if anybody's ever said yes, and you
know all the that's true all in all the business
business entrepreneurs I've talked to, and you say, were you
ready for it?
Speaker 4 (27:58):
I don't know if I remember.
Speaker 2 (27:59):
It's a It is a jump off a cliff, like
Fred said, And I don't know if people really understand
how hard it is to start start something from complete scratch.
There's a lot of ways things can go wrong. So
just to have a business like yours around this long
at says a lot I think.
Speaker 5 (28:14):
Yeah. I mean that's what they say is jump in
with both feet, and that's what we did. And there
was no turning back, always looking through the windshield.
Speaker 4 (28:22):
Yeah, every review mayor.
Speaker 1 (28:23):
So do Dad get a paycheck the first year?
Speaker 5 (28:26):
Skinny? Skinny?
Speaker 2 (28:29):
Are you the oldest son, the only son? Did you
have to wear hand me downs and play whatever sports
your older brothers might have played?
Speaker 4 (28:35):
That's typical right now, I'm the oldest son.
Speaker 6 (28:37):
We do have two other Two of my brothers are
also in the business, have been in for five eight years.
Speaker 4 (28:42):
Yeah, are they working under you?
Speaker 3 (28:44):
Do?
Speaker 4 (28:44):
You have to boss them around.
Speaker 6 (28:45):
That we're a great team. But if I need to
sure there you go.
Speaker 2 (28:49):
Put the hammer down and then Dad will put the
hammer down if it gets too personal, right, yeah.
Speaker 5 (28:54):
Yeah, not too many hammering that needs done. Okay, we
all get along, well, we all uh kind of have
our own roles and yeah.
Speaker 1 (29:05):
So it was Dad's choice to do this? Is it
was it yours and your brother's choice to follow in
his footsteps because you liked it, or because you saw
what he was doing and thought, well, I got to
back him up. I got his back.
Speaker 6 (29:19):
Well, you know, I was in college and then I
don't know, he reached out to me, said, hey, you
want to come work for us, and I thought, yeah,
I'll be a roofer. And then day one I go home,
What am I doing?
Speaker 4 (29:33):
Yeah?
Speaker 6 (29:33):
What am I doing?
Speaker 2 (29:35):
But no, just imagine your dad with kids making that change,
right sixteen, eight eighteen years ago? Right, eighteen or nineteen
years ago, Bill, And I know that eighteen or nineteen
years does not encompass your whole career, right, So there
must have been a change. There's a pivot at some point,
and you started from scratch on your own business and
you had kids. Yes, yeah, so you really had to
(29:56):
jump in.
Speaker 5 (29:58):
Things like that are scary, but it's a commitment, you know.
So once you decide to do that, like I said,
there was no looking back. We're going to make it.
We're going to do whatever it takes to make it.
And that's what we've done. So here we are.
Speaker 1 (30:13):
You feel like you're at this point that you're successful
with what you've done in the area that you're in
the two hour radius that you deal in.
Speaker 5 (30:23):
I think we have a very successful business and an
even better reputation.
Speaker 1 (30:28):
Oh okay, so.
Speaker 5 (30:31):
We're still never satisfied where we're at in our business. Roles.
We have high goals. All that comes with service and
taking care of our people and taking care of our clients.
Speaker 1 (30:43):
We talked with somebody earlier from I believe it was
Fort Jennings, right, yep, from Fort Jennings, and one of
the things that he talked about was the fact that
he came from a small place like Saint Henry and
that coming from a small place like that infused how
he dealt with customers and how he dealt with other
businesses and stuff. Do you two find that to be
(31:05):
the truth also with what you do?
Speaker 6 (31:08):
Yeah, I mean small town, everybody knows everybody and you
got to trust your neighbors. And that's what people looked
us for us, is they trust us, and we take
big respect in that and make sure we follow through
on that.
Speaker 1 (31:22):
It's funny because that's the same words that he used
almost as small town and trust, So that came from
dad obviously. How important is that to you to have
that trust with your customers?
Speaker 5 (31:33):
Oh, it's it's it's huge.
Speaker 3 (31:35):
You know.
Speaker 5 (31:37):
When we started. When I started, I was forty, you know,
he's not a young young guy.
Speaker 1 (31:42):
No, So when you're asking people, hey, I got a
brand new business, trust me to do a good job, right, corract.
Speaker 2 (31:49):
And these are these are large roofs, they are complicated,
they are commercial. You know, for every residential roofer, there's
probably twenty of those for every commercial flat like yourself
at least.
Speaker 4 (32:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (32:01):
And the dollar volume of what's under that roof that
could be damaged if the roof doesn't succeed in some way,
if the roof fails, the dollar value under there is significant. Correct,
There's really not room for error, you know, So tell
us a little bit about that kind of work that
you're that you're doing and how much of it's new,
how much of its service.
Speaker 4 (32:21):
I know that there's a component of both, there's got
to be.
Speaker 6 (32:24):
So we have several departments. We have our service department,
which runs you know, three vans, a couple guys all
day every day, fixing leaks on older roofs, maintaining older roofs,
restoring older roofs with like a roof coating. And then
we have our residential division, which we have Mitch as
our residential manager, Tanners our service manager.
Speaker 4 (32:43):
Flat roofs on homes, you talk about.
Speaker 6 (32:45):
Flat roofs on homes, on commercial and restaurants, anything manufacturing
and then our residential division we do shingles and metal,
a couple different styles of metal. And then we also
have a DNS seamless spouting doing five inch, six inch
and seven inch seamless out as well.
Speaker 4 (33:01):
Wow, that I did not know.
Speaker 6 (33:02):
On top of our commercial division.
Speaker 1 (33:05):
Was there a decision made when you started? Did you
start it as a as a flat roof place. It
was a yes, flat roof commercial industrial roofing. We did
no residential and that's and that's what we're used to.
And uh we just kind of expanded on that. Our
gutter division came from a next door neighbors selling his
(33:28):
five inch really seamless gutter and uh so that happened
within two weeks. We I don't know if we were
quite ready for it, but we did it, you know,
jumped in and you go.
Speaker 4 (33:42):
It's an addiction, is that it's a thrill to kill
type of thing.
Speaker 5 (33:46):
Yeah, you set it out there, we're going to get it. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (33:51):
Is there someplace else for you to go? Could you?
You seem just from these couple of examples like the
kind of guy who if the opportunity to rise, you
you're going to go, Yeah, let's do that. Is there
someplace else for you to go now.
Speaker 2 (34:04):
Or where's the farther where's the farthest you've traveled to?
Like and is a corollary that question, how far away
have you gone?
Speaker 5 (34:10):
Selma, Alabama?
Speaker 1 (34:11):
Get out of here? Really?
Speaker 6 (34:13):
Yeah in the summertime?
Speaker 1 (34:15):
How did you get that job?
Speaker 5 (34:17):
Our radius is extremely strong, Our client base is extremely strong.
So that was a client that had something down in Alabama.
Speaker 1 (34:27):
So somebody that trusted you enough to say, come down
to Alabama and do it for me, because there ain't
nobody down here who can do it.
Speaker 5 (34:32):
You got it? Nobody does it like us?
Speaker 1 (34:36):
What makes you different? Then? See in my mind because
I was in a flat roof building before where the
old radio station was, and I swear to god, it
seemed like every six months we were having some guy
come out because we were having leaks in different studios
and stuff. And as a Lane pointed out, that's a
lot of money when you're talking about a you know,
(34:57):
a leak coming down on this kind of equipment. And
it just seemed like it was constant. So what do
you do That's that's so different from everybody else?
Speaker 5 (35:06):
Ours is us. We're very very service oriented. So our
approach is let us try to maintain and service and
extend the life of your existing rough. Okay, you know
not every rough needs replaced. When someone calls us when
you have those kind of problems, uh so we assess
(35:27):
the rough. We're always eyes on. Okay, there's there's no dronage,
there's no anything.
Speaker 1 (35:34):
You're up there walking around.
Speaker 5 (35:35):
We walk at first well made. We may drone it
so before we can get before and after photos. But
we're eyes on. We're old school. We shake hands, we
talk to people. We give a very true assessment. Yes
we can save it. We can do this might cost
two times or might have us in two times a
year m m, but you might get another four or
(35:57):
five six years out of it. That builds our really
relationship with our clients.
Speaker 2 (36:01):
And that's a high dollar I mean, a big roof
over a commercial facility is high dollars. So if you
can extend the life, that's a real benefit to property owners.
Speaker 5 (36:09):
Sure. Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (36:11):
Now we're familiar with things that happen, like you know
on my roof at my home, high winds, things like that,
the sun beating down on all the time, shingles getting old,
and stuff like that. What are the problems with those
flat roofs, same kind of things.
Speaker 6 (36:25):
Flat roofs, you know they're going to last you thirty years.
And the warranties really oh yeah, and the warranties that
we have that we can offer through our manufacturer are
outstanding twenty year labor and material.
Speaker 4 (36:36):
So the labor's in there right, Yeah, that's big.
Speaker 6 (36:38):
And we also offer technical does on top of that,
free annual inspections that will actually call you on your
roof birthday okay and come up and just inspect the roof,
make sure you're all good to go at no cost.
Speaker 1 (36:50):
Okay, Well that is something special then absolutely, yeah, because
I don't get on I don't get that in my house.
That would be nice to say half on your house. Yeah,
sow many places are dealing with right now. Do you
figure that you're going out and inspecting every year on
their birthday? Oh?
Speaker 6 (37:06):
I mean on any given day, we may have five
or six pass gone on just those Absolutely, we.
Speaker 5 (37:11):
Have thousands and thousands.
Speaker 4 (37:13):
This is why I loved Technical Roofing.
Speaker 2 (37:16):
I'm so glad you reached out to be on the
program because the small businesses, family owned, small and medium
sized businesses, they are the backbone of the Better Business Bureau.
We're grateful to have the large companies, of course, Lazy
Boy and Owen's Corning and stuff. Those are great names
to have in But I got twenty four counties, and
twenty three of them are rural, you know. And I
(37:38):
love the idea of a family business, the small town values.
I know Fred likes it too, because he's always talking
about it. And you live in Wallbridge. It's not a
big town. And I just feel like that's the backbone
of the American economy and.
Speaker 4 (37:50):
I just that's I was super happy that you reached out. Awesome.
Speaker 1 (37:54):
I do you here other than your sons who are
working for you? Where else are you finding people? Because, like,
like your son said, I never thought I wanted to
be a roofer, and I can't imagine there's a lot
of high school kids.
Speaker 4 (38:07):
Did you say You're still not sure?
Speaker 1 (38:09):
Probably not a lot of high school kids going out
of there. Man, I can't wait to graduate. I want
to get up on one of those roofs and sell Alabama.
So how do you find the people that you're hiring?
And then what do you do afterwards? Is there some
kind of mentorship going on?
Speaker 5 (38:23):
Our training is extremely well done. Specific. Safety is always first.
You know how to install the roofs the last thing
you learned. Okay, we want everybody safe. That's what it's
all about. For the longest time, our whole UH team
(38:46):
was either family, friends, or someone referred to us. So
we are extremely close net net group of people.
Speaker 1 (38:58):
Just putting rough makes sense because and that also there's
a level of trust in all of that, just like
you work to get with your customers right.
Speaker 2 (39:06):
Absolutely if you if you go to their website, by
the way, that definitely shows through. It definitely shows through.
I saw that theme throughout it. That's another reason why
I was excited to have you on the program.
Speaker 1 (39:17):
The website is technical roofing dot com by the way,
if you want to check it out Technical roofing dot com.
If they go up there, what are they going to find.
Speaker 4 (39:25):
On our website.
Speaker 6 (39:27):
They're gonna find past job photos, They're gonna find our
team descriptions on our team members. UH talks you know
about our culture and just to speak on you know,
getting people in. It's anybody can get people in. It's
how you keep them right. And we provide growth plans
for all of our people goals PPF goals really. Oh yeah,
(39:48):
help them with that and and provide them. Hey, we
want you to grow here, we want you to stay here.
And the culture is huge with us, and you'll see
that through the website.
Speaker 4 (39:58):
It comes through our so clearly.
Speaker 3 (40:00):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (40:00):
Now, so I see where he gets his all right,
where Tony gets his? So where did you get that
work ethic, that trust ethic? Does that come from your folks?
Because what did they do to get you to that point?
Speaker 5 (40:13):
Oh? Yeah, oh yeah, you know, unfortunately my dad passed.
I was pretty pretty darn young when my dad passed. Uh,
my mom and my older siblings took took over. So, uh,
you always learn to work hard. You got certain things
to do right after school. Uh, it was working. I've
(40:38):
always worked two jobs really always, So I had an
eight hour job if it was strictly eight uh, and
then build houses on the side or I bar attended
or so. I mean there was always strong work ethic.
Speaker 1 (40:53):
Yeah, saying that doesn't happen that much anymore.
Speaker 5 (40:56):
I know, I feel extremely fortunate with my boy boys
and our whole group, so extremely Yeah.
Speaker 1 (41:03):
It sounds like it starts at the top works its
way down.
Speaker 4 (41:06):
Plant corn, you get corn?
Speaker 5 (41:08):
Yeah, they ever heard.
Speaker 1 (41:11):
Before front corn Corny, I worked in Salona. I heard
a lot of old adages, believe me. Okay, yeah, oh yeah,
I know. I know those go back a long, long way.
So what do you see in the next five years
for you guys? Do you have plans to retire at
some point and turn everything over to Tony who never
wanted to be a roof from the first place? I
(41:33):
love it now, man, I love it.
Speaker 5 (41:35):
They have plans for me to retire?
Speaker 1 (41:37):
Oh do they?
Speaker 2 (41:38):
Okay, So let me tell you about a product idea
I have, and I was going to pitch it to Souder.
It was going to be a business desk that folded
up into a coffin when the founder passed away. Yeah,
I pitched that to my old boss and he called
me a son of a pup He didn't call my
son of a puppy.
Speaker 4 (41:53):
And he never wanted to really.
Speaker 2 (41:54):
Retire either, and his son was trying to get him
to retire, and uh, he never did.
Speaker 4 (41:59):
He never did.
Speaker 2 (42:00):
He passed away still working, And so I just thought
that's cute. But a lot of a lot of entrepreneurs
that lead a family like you're doing, Bill, that created
a culture that comes from you and continues on. As
long as you're making a difference, right, and you're having impact,
why retire exactly?
Speaker 4 (42:18):
Sorry about that.
Speaker 1 (42:19):
That's out. We don't We don't want them out.
Speaker 6 (42:21):
He's got to keep selling.
Speaker 5 (42:22):
I love what I do, and I think that spreads
down with these guys. He just said it to Tony
did uh. It's it's all about I mean, everybody's smiling
every day when we're in we get together, made fun. Yeah,
we make it fun.
Speaker 1 (42:38):
Well, the key is to enjoy it. I always told
my kids, find something you like to do first, and
then worry about somebody paying you for it later. Because
you don't want to wake up every morning.
Speaker 4 (42:48):
You go, I got I go to work again.
Speaker 1 (42:50):
You want to wake up every morning and go great,
I get to go and work with all these people
that I really like doing something that and and the
person we spoke to earlier carpenter and a builder. And
I'm sure same thing holds true for you. Every day
is different because every roof is different, and then problem
that you're gonna deal with is different.
Speaker 5 (43:08):
Right, You're right. Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (43:10):
My philosophy is, and it's on a plaque in the
BBB is one do your job. Two be nice three
have fun for do your job right, because it's on
there twice for a reason. But you know, if you're
not going to have fun at work right, you got
to spend a lot of your time at work. You
spend eight to ten hours a day there. That's more
than you spend in the evening having fun. You might
(43:32):
as well try to find a way to love what
you do.
Speaker 4 (43:34):
If it's at all possible. It makes a difference, and
we do.
Speaker 6 (43:37):
And our guys are great and they're fun to be around,
and you know, we do things outside of work, parades
and get togethers, and we all go kayaking together in
the summertime. Like it's again speaking on that culture and
our team and it is fun now.
Speaker 1 (43:51):
That culture of camaraderie really really helps a lot when
it comes to making a good business. It sounds like
you guys have managed to do that at Technical Roofing.
Speaker 2 (44:00):
Well, thanks guys for coming in. It's a long drive.
I appreciate you coming in, Fred and I both do.
And if you'd like to come back again, we'd love
to have you, you know, at another time, and we'll
also talk about you might want to write an article
on our Torch News newsletter there's something to that, but
that's for another time. I want to thank the audience,
whether you're business or consumer, thank you for listening. This
has been a heart for business with Laine Mons and
(44:22):
Fred Lafever and we'll see you again next time.
Speaker 1 (44:25):
We'll be back, of course, and if you'd like to
know more about Technical Roofing, go to their website technicalroofing
dot com.
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