November 13, 2025 • 47 mins
Pat Rogan Step 4, Step Series at the Tuesday night Step Group at the 12 Step House, Fort Lauderdale, FL, 11/11/2024.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Recovered alcoholic. My name is pat Rogan. Pat Rogan, but
thanks to the twelve Steps of Alcoholics.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
Anonymous outlined in this Big Book of Alcoholics Anonymous, which
is the program of AA, I have recovered from a
seemingly hopeless state of mind and body. And I can't
even tell you how grateful I am. I just I
get emotional every time I say it.
Speaker 1 (00:22):
It's just AA.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Didn't just save my life, but it gave me a
new life. And my life is incredible, just incredible. Regardless
of all the other outside circumstances and everything, the life
that I've been given because of this fellowship and the
program of Alcoholics Anonymous.
Speaker 1 (00:40):
Is just amazing. I get to hang out with you guys.
I mean it's just so cool.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
I mean, you guys are everywhere, by the way, you know,
I mean, no matter where I go the hockey games,
we have enough people at our hockey games that we go.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
To to have a meeting.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
You know, we talk about passing the basketball. We're there,
you know, right Gifts there. I mean there's a bunch
of guys there, and Sheldon, just a bunch of guys
that Charlie's usually there and Christian and Kate. Just really, Karen,
I mean, just a bunch of people. And you know,
I go to concerts. I run into you guys at concerts.
(01:15):
I mean, it's just just I'm just an amazing way
of life if you buy into it, you know, if
you're I guess, if you're desperate enough.
Speaker 1 (01:23):
To buy into it, you know.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
So we're on week five, Step four, which is my
normal case, a lot as far behind as I usually
am here, but uh, it won't beg fall more behind.
I just think that there's you know, we're laying a foundation.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
Here in the first five.
Speaker 2 (01:45):
You know, we're laying a foundation for the way of life,
you know, and it's just so damn important to get
these first four, these first five correct, you know. And
it just so I spend a lot of time on
the first five step first four really, and then and
then the real miracle, hopefully the real transformation starts to
(02:06):
take place as a result of four and five, and
then and then we have a way of life. We
got six and seven, of the rest of our lives,
eight and nine, the rest of our lives ten and
eleven and twelve.
Speaker 1 (02:15):
Is the way of life.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
So you know, we got to lay this foundation though,
and we just read what I always say, the requirements
for recovery, you know, in the ABCS, you know, being
convinced of the ABC's. Hopefully that's where you're at, that
you're convinced that that your life your alcoholic, your life's
on managemble. No human power can solve that problem and
(02:37):
God can and will that you sought. Hopefully you're convinced
to that. And if I'm sponsoring you and you're not
convinced to that, we're done.
Speaker 1 (02:44):
That's just it.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
Call me any time you need to, but we're done
working the steps, you know, because to me, that's a requirement.
Those those two steps are requirement for recovery. You don't
get that. Why would you not Why would you do that?
Why would you look in the mirror and do self examined?
Why would you confess? Why would you do why would
you pay people back? You know, why would you do
(03:09):
that if you didn't have to?
Speaker 1 (03:11):
You know.
Speaker 2 (03:12):
So that brings us to the third step that we
talked about last week, that we made a decision to
seek this way of life. We made a decision to
seek new direction, right to stop trying to run the show.
And we use words like The first requirement is that
we be convinced that any life around on self.
Speaker 1 (03:32):
Will cannot be a success.
Speaker 2 (03:33):
You know that any life that I am in charge
of cannot be a success.
Speaker 1 (03:37):
How do I know that? Look at my history. Look
at my history.
Speaker 2 (03:41):
And I would argue that when I first got here
by the way, you know, or if people would tell me,
pt this has to be your number one priorities.
Speaker 1 (03:47):
Oh no, No, I got kids and those kids need money.
Speaker 2 (03:52):
So I need a job, right, and I need a
job so I can put a house or a roof
over their head. So you know this is important. And
then they had to remind me, Pat, that's all gone,
you lost all that. That's why you're here. You have
a restraining order on you, you can't see your.
Speaker 1 (04:09):
Kids, she took the house.
Speaker 2 (04:13):
You've been arrested, you have charges, you have court date,
and I have to be reminded that, yes, this needs
to be the most important thing in my life.
Speaker 1 (04:23):
Right.
Speaker 2 (04:24):
So I've made a decision to seek God's direction. I'm
taking a new position. I'm no longer drug.
Speaker 1 (04:29):
He is the director. I am the actor. He is
the principal. I am the agent.
Speaker 2 (04:34):
He is the father. I am the child. I am
now going to seek direction. And I like to think
I am now making a decision to live a life
based on spiritual principle. I like just based on principles, right,
I like based on principles, because what the book has
told me is that I am selfish, and I am
(04:55):
self centered, and I'm by fear, self pity, self delusion.
I'm an extreme example of self all roun riot and
I don't think so and now, and this is where
I got confused, And this is where I think I
was misinformed. Like I heard things like, well, if you
(05:16):
don't get three, don't move on to four. Right, if
you don't get one, you don't move on to two.
You don't get two, you don't move on to three.
You got to get three.
Speaker 1 (05:23):
To move on to four, you know. And it's not
it's just the opposite. It's just the opposite.
Speaker 2 (05:28):
That one step builds on the next, and that step
builds on the next, and that step builds on the next.
Speaker 1 (05:33):
That's the way this is. But I didn't know.
Speaker 2 (05:34):
That, so I read things like we were reborn after
the third step prayer that we did last week here together, right,
And I did I made this, Yes'm I'm willing.
Speaker 1 (05:45):
I made the decision. I got on my knees with
my sponsor. I did the third step prayer. I got up.
I didn't feel shit.
Speaker 2 (05:54):
The restraining order was still there, the lawsuit and the
chargers were still there. She still had the House bill
calls it worldly clamors, right, the worldly clamors were still there.
Speaker 1 (06:07):
And I'm not feeling any book.
Speaker 2 (06:09):
And the book told me that if I take this position,
remarkable things are gonna happen.
Speaker 1 (06:16):
I didn't read the rest.
Speaker 2 (06:18):
About doing if I did his work, well, you know,
I didn't read that part right.
Speaker 1 (06:24):
And I didn't have an experience as some people have.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
I know Stevie talks about having an experience after step three.
Speaker 1 (06:31):
He had a spiritual awakening after step three.
Speaker 2 (06:33):
I did not have that. I did not feel better.
And I'm under this impression that.
Speaker 1 (06:37):
I've got to get this to move on.
Speaker 2 (06:41):
Misinformed. I'm misinformed. So I go to these open depression meetings,
open disgusting.
Speaker 1 (06:48):
What do you do.
Speaker 2 (06:51):
You?
Speaker 1 (06:51):
What are you telling? The open discussion meetings?
Speaker 2 (06:56):
And and and I'm share because does anybody have a problem. Yeah,
bitch took the house. She will not give the house back,
she will not drop the charges, and there's always somebody
(07:19):
well meaning in the meeting that says you need to
turn that off.
Speaker 1 (07:24):
Put that into God box. I need an attorney, That's what
I so. I Jim b is doing this.
Speaker 2 (07:39):
Third Step talk at the fifth Chapter club when they
moved over to Lot of the Lakes from Lighthouse Point,
and I'm listening to Jim and Jim's talking this third
Step like this miracle is going to take place, and
this and that. And I got to the gym after the
meeting and I said, Jim, I'm.
Speaker 1 (07:54):
Not getting it. He said, why aren't you getting I'm not.
I'm not don feel rebold.
Speaker 2 (08:01):
I'm feeling worse than I did when I did the
Third Step. I just nothing's changing, nothing's getting better. And
he said, well, what did the book say? What did
they say you were? And I said, are you talking
about that selfish, self centered thing driven by fear and
self delusion, self pity and I step on the toes
(08:26):
of my fellows and they retaliate and this self will
run riot thing extreme example.
Speaker 1 (08:31):
He said, yeah, that thing. He said, do you agree?
Speaker 2 (08:34):
I said no, no, I don't think He said we
Why don't you find out if it's true?
Speaker 1 (08:40):
And put a pen to paper.
Speaker 2 (08:42):
Why don't you see if they're right, Maybe they're wrong,
Maybe you're right God, maybe you are a giver. Why
don't you put it on paper and see if you're
if they're right about what they're saying about, see if
you really are selfish and self centered and driven by fear.
Speaker 1 (08:58):
And the books said as much.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
If you just move on, it gives you a timeline
right after the third step, next.
Speaker 1 (09:08):
Next.
Speaker 2 (09:09):
It doesn't say next year, next month. After you get
step three. See what Jim told me was, guess what,
pat It's either unattainable or unsustainable if you don't take action.
What you've made a decision to do is take action.
You can make a decision to go see your son
in Jacksonville all you want, but if you stay home,
(09:31):
you're not gonna go see your son in Jacksonville. You
don't take some kind of action, you don't get in
the car and actually head north.
Speaker 1 (09:37):
You're not gonna see your son. Fourth step is the
same thing.
Speaker 2 (09:41):
You don't take something. You made a decision to seek
God's direction. Now, if you don't take some action, nothing
is gonna happen. And he explained to me the decision
you made was to do steps four through nine. That's
the decision you just made, was to seek God's direction.
That's how you fine and seek God's direction as you
(10:02):
do the rest of the steps at once, and then
it tells me next and that at once we find
out we find out what are the causes and conditions
to that alcohol was just a symptom of the underlying issues.
Speaker 1 (10:20):
We need to get down to causes and conditions.
Speaker 2 (10:22):
This will have little permanent effect unless at once followed
by an effort to be rid of the things that
are blocking me from the sunlight of the spirit. We
know that God is within the what is blocking me
from having a relationship with that God within? That to me,
by the way, was the miracle paragraph in this book
when they told me where God was. I was going
(10:45):
from church to church looking for God. I don't have
to stop looking. They told me, it's God within. It's
your conscious, that's your soul, it's you know, and right
from wrong. It's that voice that tells you that's wrong.
And the voice that says put the aren't back that
you know, that's that voice. It says stop and help
those people pick up that litter. That voice, that voice
(11:12):
that says, Oh my god, did you really do that?
How are you going to live with that? And I
don't know any other way to live with that? But
taking a drink. That's how I got absolution. Was through
the bottle, got permission and then absolution. But I can't
live with that anymore. See the conversation shifted, didn't it.
It went from mental physical, and then it went the
(11:34):
behavior on step three. That is my behavior and this
is the issue. It's my taking those instinctual drives beyond
what God intended to be used for taking that social instinct,
that security instinct and net sexian is beyond what they
were intended to be useful.
Speaker 1 (11:53):
There's the measure of the defective character. By the way, where.
Speaker 2 (11:55):
God intended me to use those instinctual drives and then
where I took them, there's the measure.
Speaker 1 (12:00):
How do I reel them in?
Speaker 2 (12:03):
Or do I even think I need to real them
or do I think I'm even misusing them?
Speaker 1 (12:08):
I think I think the.
Speaker 2 (12:11):
First off, I think we discourage people in the rooms
from doing a four step.
Speaker 1 (12:15):
I think we scare them out of the fourth step,
And oh my god, what do you get to step four?
Oh my god, I'm on step four, gam you know.
Speaker 2 (12:28):
This is a positive step. This is not a list
of dirty nasty things I did. This is a list
of things that are blocking me from the sunlight of
the spirit.
Speaker 1 (12:37):
That's what these are.
Speaker 2 (12:39):
I think that maybe maybe some of you are confused
by the business inventory, but I was. I thought the
business inventory was a work of genius, right fact finding
and fact facing effort to find the truth. That explains
searching and fearless moral doesn't it? Because that confuse me
searching and fearless moral moral. I didn't know men truth
(13:00):
until somebody explained it to me. I know Bill wanted
us to write a list of dirty nasty things on
a piece of paper. He would have said immoral or immoral.
He would not have said moral. This is this is
Let's find the facts, Let's face the facts, and let's
see if they're right.
Speaker 1 (13:15):
Let's see what the truth is here. I thought it
was genius resentment.
Speaker 2 (13:25):
Then he goes right on right into he's talking about
this is the first time and the only time in
the book you'll see the word disease.
Speaker 1 (13:32):
Right.
Speaker 2 (13:34):
Not only are we mentally and physically ill, but we
are spiritually sick. That we suffer from a spiritual disease.
The conversation is changing again. It went mental, physical, behavioral,
and now he's going spiritual, that we are spiritually sick
(13:56):
caused by our behavior. But I don't think so. But
I don't think so. I think I'm a victim. I
think I've been a victim here. Nobody understands me, a
victim of bad breaks and misunderstandings. I'm a grown ass
man and people are trying to tell me what to do.
Nobody tells me what to do. We don't care about
(14:21):
disease here. We don't care whether alcoholism is a disease
or not. We know now that it is, but we
don't care. What we care about is what's the solution.
That's what the book goes to.
Speaker 1 (14:34):
Now.
Speaker 2 (14:34):
I believe, by the way, that's why the doctor's opinions
outside the body of the book, Because we don't care
about the medical aspect and all that we don't he
doesn't really it gives us some credibility because there's a
doctor writing it. We don't care why we're mentally or
physically ill. What we want to know is how do
we fix it? That's what this book is targeting. How
do we fix it? So we don't overcome. If I
(14:58):
don't always speak for me, I don't overcome this. Mark
Houston called it an internal condition. I love that because
I didn't get spiritual disease or spiritual sickness. He called
it this internal condition that is the byproduct of my behavior.
And it feels like resentment and anger and fear and
(15:18):
guilt and remorse and shame.
Speaker 1 (15:20):
It feels like that.
Speaker 2 (15:22):
Unless I do something about that, the anxiety, the torment.
Unless I do something about that, I cannot not drink
because I don't know. I don't have another solution. I
cannot white knuckle it. I cannot will myself to make
that feeling go away.
Speaker 1 (15:44):
That's a problem. That is a problem. And I'd love
to tell you that it is completely gone away. Has not.
I still and we'll talk about when we get to fear.
Fear is still my thorn.
Speaker 2 (15:56):
You don't know me, know that I have panic attacks
before I speak during the day, you know, But it but.
Speaker 1 (16:04):
It brings me to God. It's my thorn.
Speaker 2 (16:06):
Yeah, I use it as almost like an asset today.
There was a time where it was just I didn't
know what I was gonna do. I did not know
what I was gonna do when I got here about
that internal condition?
Speaker 1 (16:19):
How do I live with that? You know?
Speaker 2 (16:22):
And I believe you know, we call it a we
call it a pink cloud, but but I believe that
we are given this spiritual window where we're willing to
do what it takes to overcome alcoholism or drug addiction.
And if somebody doesn't grab us from all that window
is open and introduce us to the program of action,
(16:46):
we're not gonna be able to hold our breath long enough.
We're not gonna be able to lean on this fellowship
long enough to stay sober. Yeah, I think we disrespectfully
called it a pink cloud. I think it's a spiritual window.
You know, it's a it's a window of opportunity. And
that's why I'm about working these steps quickly, you know.
(17:06):
That's why I'm about let's get in the book, let's
get up. We do a workshop and the other room here,
and we take people through the steps in five weeks,
you know, because it's about stopping the bleeding, right, It's
it's it's we're bleeding out. Let's let's get a foundation here,
let's get something underasy, Let's find another solution.
Speaker 1 (17:25):
Other than drugs and alcohol. This is triage, man, That's
what this is. This is trioge. Just take your time. Ship.
You may not be one of us. You could take
your time. You may not want Now.
Speaker 2 (17:42):
I'm not saying I didn't lean on the fellowship for
three months. So I was in here just leaning on
a fellowship. I know people have leaned on it. Something
can make it a year, Some can make it a
couple of years. Living a life of what Bill call it,
of quiet desperation.
Speaker 1 (17:57):
Hanging in there. How you doing hanging in there?
Speaker 2 (18:02):
Three meetings today called my sponsor five times, a couple
hours of another twenty four. That's not what this promises.
This promises peace, serenity, life. I couldn't even imagine a
(18:25):
life that I couldn't even imagine.
Speaker 1 (18:28):
And I'll tell you one of the what's the solution
to a spiritual sickness? It's a spiritual solution. If it
was medical, we'd all go get.
Speaker 2 (18:42):
Some medicine or some pills or some treatment from a
medical doctor and it would be done.
Speaker 1 (18:47):
It was psychiatric. If it was just psychiatric, we'd go
to a psychiatrist.
Speaker 2 (18:51):
He would prescribe, give us some therapy, talk about our
childhood issues or whatever.
Speaker 1 (18:55):
That what issues we have, and we'd overcome them and
we wouldn't need a drink. But this is different.
Speaker 2 (19:02):
And by the way, I'm not saying not to treat
mental and psychological issues. We are not doctors. We have
no right to ever tell you what to do in
that area. Nobody gives the right here to tell you
you shouldn't take meds.
Speaker 1 (19:17):
That a psychiatrist has prescribed to you.
Speaker 2 (19:19):
I mean, if you have legitimate mental issues, you'll never
get this unless you take care of that.
Speaker 1 (19:26):
By the way, if you don't take care of this,
you'll never get that either.
Speaker 2 (19:31):
It works to hand in hand, but we shouldn't even
have an opinion on it, might even talk about that.
Speaker 1 (19:37):
I did have an opinion on it once got it.
The resentment, which is the.
Speaker 2 (19:46):
Number one of ender that we're going to talk about,
that's what so the spiritual sickness manifests itself in resentment
and anger, fear, guilt, remorse, and shame. That's the internal
condition that we're talking about. That's the spiritual malady that
we're talking about. How do we treat that spiritual malady?
But we have to inventory, we have to see what
is going on what is happening here?
Speaker 1 (20:06):
What is the truth here?
Speaker 2 (20:09):
Number one offender kills more alcoholics than anything.
Speaker 1 (20:12):
Else, But I love it.
Speaker 2 (20:13):
And then Bill goes on and says, fear is the
underlying coroti thread beneath it all.
Speaker 1 (20:17):
So what's the number one offender? I know this.
Speaker 2 (20:23):
I know resentment and fear steal time for me, Absolutely
steal time for me. And by the way, everybody deals
with resentments. The difference is we die over it.
Speaker 1 (20:33):
That's the difference.
Speaker 2 (20:34):
Normies are out there resentful as hell, right. They may
even have a couple of drinks and go to bed
and they're all right, don't smoke a joint.
Speaker 1 (20:41):
They're fine. But it kills us. It kills us. It
just dominates me. This dominates me.
Speaker 2 (20:52):
The book says, real more imagine resentment, refeel to refeel right.
Speaker 1 (21:00):
Over and over and over again.
Speaker 2 (21:02):
Somebody says something to me that pisses me off. They
walk away, they go on with life, and it steals
my day, my week, my.
Speaker 1 (21:11):
Month, my life. I've resented dead people.
Speaker 2 (21:18):
They're not even on the planet anymore, and I'm pissed
off at them.
Speaker 1 (21:26):
Kills more alcoholic than anything else.
Speaker 2 (21:29):
And by the way, that is why we suggest not
getting into relationships early in recovery. They do create resentments.
First off, we're needy when we get here. We're looking
for a substitute for the drugs or alcohol, and you're it,
You're the new drug. Yeah, and it was God's will
(21:49):
because we were in the medline together, you know, and
we left treatment and there we were seven eleven, you know,
bustof we voted the bush.
Speaker 1 (22:00):
It's meant to be. Yeah, will you sleep with me? Yes,
move in? You know what, my here's here's my here's
here's how it works for me.
Speaker 2 (22:19):
You sleep with me, you move in, We have a child,
we get married.
Speaker 1 (22:24):
And then we see if we like each other, We
see if we can get along.
Speaker 2 (22:31):
Just the opposite of the way, just the opposite of
the relationship, right the first time after by the way
that I did anything that way, you know, it's it's
like you'll send a Facebook I love you and then
there's no response.
Speaker 1 (22:47):
Yeah, son of a bitch, you know, I love your
brains out unbelievable, keep bloking. And she's I know, she's
said the green lights on the green dot is there?
Speaker 2 (23:00):
Get it?
Speaker 1 (23:01):
And then she comments on somebody else's ship.
Speaker 2 (23:03):
Right, she's sleeping with that guy.
Speaker 1 (23:10):
Two flakes making a blizzard. Man, that's what he's what.
Here's what it is.
Speaker 2 (23:16):
My life is unmanageable and I want to share it
with you, right, That's what it is.
Speaker 1 (23:23):
It kills it absolutely.
Speaker 2 (23:24):
Get a foundation under you, get through the steps. Let
her or him get through the steps and get a
foundation under that. Because I want to tell you this,
and I get to do this, and I know there's
other people in this room to get to do this.
I get to walk a spiritual way of life with
my partner. I get to walk the road of recovery
with somebody who's practicing spiritual principles to the best of
(23:45):
their ability, and I'm practicing at the best of my ability.
Speaker 1 (23:49):
It's a beautiful thing.
Speaker 2 (23:50):
It is an absolutely beautiful thing that I get to
do m and it's because of these principles, because I'm
our relationship is based on these pends.
Speaker 1 (24:01):
And I want to tell you.
Speaker 2 (24:02):
Something when I'm when when we met, our first date
was at Bubba Gump Shrimp Company.
Speaker 1 (24:09):
That was just romantic.
Speaker 2 (24:12):
First thing I said to her, And this wasn't my idea,
this was my sponsor's idea. Can we take sex off
the table? Can we take it off the table and
get to know each other and see if we like
each other before we have children?
Speaker 1 (24:33):
Anyways? Like that?
Speaker 2 (24:34):
Chress so real or imagine right. So, so I'm in
my home group, and I'm Kurt knows that people that
know me know that I'm a stickler of being on
your phone during the meant a matter of fact, if I'm
on it, don't call me on it, but but I
call them on it.
Speaker 1 (24:50):
Stay off your freaking phone, Turn it.
Speaker 2 (24:52):
Off, stick in your pocket, put it away, no cross stock,
pay attention, Focus on the speaker, Focus on what's.
Speaker 1 (24:58):
Going on in the meeting, right, And I'm just.
Speaker 2 (25:01):
And so I'm talking to one of my sponsors in
the meeting, and some old timer goes.
Speaker 1 (25:08):
And all my sponsors are sitting there, nig I just
got yelled at for.
Speaker 2 (25:13):
His own rule, you know. And I didn't hear anybody.
I didn't hear another word in that meeting. I didn't
hear another word that speaker said. It started.
Speaker 1 (25:23):
I can't believe he just did that.
Speaker 2 (25:25):
I can't believe he just embarrassed me like that. And I, uh,
when I left the meeting, and he said, man, you
look a little pissed off.
Speaker 1 (25:35):
I said, yeah, he said.
Speaker 2 (25:36):
Why I said, you hear him tell me to shut up?
That isn't what he did, is it? He went, I
heard shut up? And somebody else said, really you said
he said, shut the fuck up? I said, in my
(25:58):
own home group. Ah, and now what ill is yourself?
Speaker 1 (26:00):
Pity?
Speaker 2 (26:01):
I want your support? They go, Oh, I wouldn't do
I wouldn't take that. You know, I wouldn't. You ought
to say something? You know, Well, maybe you should get
another hugger. Yeah, I think I should get another hugger.
This is a bullshit that I should be treated like
this here, real or imagined. How many people we judge
We don't even know them. I judge they're walking towards me,
and I judge who they are or what they're like.
(26:23):
I imagine something that's not even true. Don't even give them
a chance to say hello. And I've already realized I
don't want a relationship with them. I don't like them,
don't know their name, and I don't like them. Am
I only one anyways? So I think, like, I don't
(26:49):
know if anybody's like me in their add a little bit,
add anything like that. Anybody read a page and not
know what they just read. I'm the only one right.
Like I can be reading three pages and somebody asked me,
what do you reading? I I was thinking about work tomorrow.
Speaker 1 (27:07):
Well, the same thing happens in the big book of it. Right.
Speaker 2 (27:10):
If we miss that next paragraph, we miss all the
instructions for the four step. All of them are missed.
In one paragraph, we listed each resentment. Listed means a
list of items top to bottom. Inventory, by definition, is
(27:30):
a list of items. I want to see what items
are sellable, what items are broken?
Speaker 1 (27:38):
What items do we have to get rid of?
Speaker 2 (27:40):
So it says a list, which means we do one
column top to bottom. Why because we don't want to
keep changing our minds. Here's why I don't want.
Speaker 1 (27:47):
To do it.
Speaker 2 (27:48):
I don't want to relive it. I'm trying to inventory it.
I'll relive it in five, but I don't want to
relive it in four. I just want to do an inventory.
So I go top to bottom. Who am I pissed
off at? Whom I resent for to, who do I
not like? And I have my original fourth step right here.
It's not that big, it's one page. Stop the bleeding.
(28:09):
I don't have to talk about the guy that pulled
the chair out of front of me in third grade,
or the kids that beat me up outside of grade school.
That's not renting space in my head. You know what's
right in space in my house. My wife, she divorced me.
Speaker 1 (28:25):
My wife. She took my house. You're what I said,
my house.
Speaker 2 (28:32):
No, that's why it's written she took, not ours.
Speaker 1 (28:37):
She took my house. My wife. She had me arrested.
Speaker 2 (28:42):
She pressed charges short and specific. I'm gonna tell the
story later on. But all I didn't want to do
right now is inventory it the police.
Speaker 1 (28:52):
They arrested me. They charged me with as Sultan battery.
Speaker 2 (28:57):
Her lawyer, he wants me to pay him. Her lawyer
wants me to pay him. He says, by law, I'm
gonna pay him.
Speaker 1 (29:08):
The I R s they froze my checking account.
Speaker 2 (29:14):
I thought Ira Levey was some guy. I said, who's
Iris Levee? I thought it was some Jewish god count
or something. You know, it was Ir s Levee. And
my father was on there. My dad's on there. Why
(29:35):
am I mad at her?
Speaker 1 (29:37):
You know, I told you?
Speaker 2 (29:38):
Why am I mad at arrested me? Why am I
not he wants my money? Why am I od at
the rs. They want my money? Why am I mad
at my father? He left us when I was five,
He paid never paid a diamond child support, He used
and beat my mother in front of us children.
Speaker 1 (29:52):
Short and specific, and then it.
Speaker 2 (29:55):
Goes on to ask, well, what part of me was
affected by that? And I was listening to care and
she did her series here and it just gave me
a whole different outlook. On that third column in the
big book, it talks about the social instinct and security
instinct and the sex instinct.
Speaker 1 (30:09):
Which makes sense. Is affecting my self.
Speaker 2 (30:12):
Esteem or my personal relationships or my material my pocketbook,
or my emotional.
Speaker 1 (30:17):
Security or the sex instinct? You know?
Speaker 2 (30:21):
And that's a great question, but I have a hard
time figuring it out unless when I heard her say
how did that.
Speaker 1 (30:26):
Make me feel?
Speaker 2 (30:28):
How did what she do make me feel? Now I
can identify the instinct. I almost want to add that
column into my four step you know, it was just
it just makes more sense. How did her divorce to
me make me feel?
Speaker 1 (30:43):
Well?
Speaker 2 (30:44):
It definitely talked to me. Hit my social instinct right,
made me feel less? Then invest with my self esteem.
I'm a failure. That's how it made me feel like
a failure made me feel broke because because she took everything,
(31:04):
took all my staff, and my sex instinct obviously was
affected because I wasn't getting any up to that, you know,
I was How how being arrested by the police in
my front yard make me feel with my neighbors watching?
Speaker 1 (31:20):
Come on?
Speaker 2 (31:22):
That affected the social instincts? Huh, the self esteem, security instinct.
Speaker 1 (31:28):
Now I got charges.
Speaker 2 (31:31):
It's gonna affect my future. Damn right, salt battery charges. Yeah,
it gonna affect my future.
Speaker 1 (31:39):
How's the irs?
Speaker 2 (31:41):
How did I feel when the irs attached my money?
Speaker 1 (31:45):
Yeah? Security instinct big time.
Speaker 2 (31:48):
So it just makes it I think that question makes
it so much easier to identify the instinct that's affected.
And the book says that once we see the truth
of it, because I mean, I got three names down
there and three what they did to me, and then
how it is affected.
Speaker 1 (32:03):
And I didn't even have.
Speaker 2 (32:04):
To do call them forwarding Holy shit, this is my fault.
Speaker 1 (32:08):
This is my fault.
Speaker 2 (32:09):
I didn't even have to get to the responsibility call.
I mean, when I did, it was a wake up call. Well,
if you don't stay out all night and you don't
have a girlfriend, and if you can't, you can't stay sober,
and you're never home and you don't assault your wife,
(32:29):
then they don't have you arrested, and they don't divorce you,
and they don't take that their house. And if you
don't assault your wife, the police don't come. I'm pissed
off of the police because they arrested me. They were called
to the scene, you know what I mean, like they had,
you know, have a choice.
Speaker 1 (32:47):
It's a nine won one call.
Speaker 2 (32:50):
When you start to see the truth, you start don't
so finally see the truth, find the facts and face.
Speaker 1 (32:57):
The facts and see the truth. Right, Yeah, I r s.
It wasn't my money they wanted. It was theirs.
Speaker 2 (33:03):
When you don't pay your taxes, they want their money.
They don't freeze your account if you pay your taxes.
My father, I needed to just own it. Kids are
not responsible for adults behavior. I am not responsible my
(33:25):
father's bad. If you were abused by an adult, you
are not responsible for that. They are the responsible party.
Speaker 1 (33:31):
But you need to own it. You need to own it.
Speaker 2 (33:35):
And work through it, you know, And we'll work through
it with the rest of the steps. If I get
to nine, I'm going to have to really take a
look at my father. You'm have to really take a
look at him. And the book talks about what is
the solution to these ones that will you cannot let
go of?
Speaker 1 (33:55):
You know what is it? Well, it's God.
Speaker 2 (33:58):
Right, The solution is a spirit We already talked about that.
Speaker 1 (34:01):
It's a spiritual sickness.
Speaker 2 (34:04):
The solution is spiritual, which means the solution is God.
Whatever you think that is the universe, creative intelligence, spirit
of the universe, energy, whatever you think that is a
power greater than human power. The solution is him or it. Well,
how do I communicate with Him or it?
Speaker 1 (34:22):
Prayer?
Speaker 2 (34:24):
Prayer, And that's the solution they're giving me to these
ones I cannot let go of. We start to look
at what to say, We start to look at life
from a different angle. Perhaps they have issues in their life, perhaps.
Speaker 1 (34:38):
They're spiritually sick too. You start to ask yourself, I.
Speaker 2 (34:42):
Wonder what's going on in their life that makes them
talk to me like that or treat me.
Speaker 1 (34:46):
Like that, or do that to me.
Speaker 2 (34:50):
I mean, let's just say, justifiable resentments are the worst
Clients who don't pay me for work that I did
not my fault, don't they know who they're screwing with.
They think because they're in a gated community, I'm not
going to blow up their mailbox. Come on, I'll follow somebody.
(35:10):
Yet I know how to get in there. So so
what good does that? What good does that do me?
Spiritually speaking? Didn't I just drop to their level? Didn't
I just fall to their level? They didn't pay me,
so I blew up their mailbox. That wouldn't look good
if I was up here talking about I got arrested
(35:31):
for blowing up a mailbox. So I can't do that.
That's the one thing about speaking right like you gotta
you got, you're accountable, You're accountable. Yeah, hypocrits get drunk.
Hypocrits will come up here and say they're doing something
they're not. They get drunk. And I'm not saying I'm perfect.
I ammittedly am broken, But I thought about blowing that mailbox.
Speaker 1 (35:55):
Up for a few days. They're not just one. It
happens a lot. So what do I do?
Speaker 2 (36:02):
I pray for those people. It's the most powerful act
of love you can show for another person, whether you.
Speaker 1 (36:07):
Mean it or not.
Speaker 2 (36:08):
Whether you mean it or not, hate and prayer can't
live in the same mind. It's a one car garage
up here. I'm either loving you or I'm hating you.
And if I'm praying for you, i'm loving you. Well,
I'm done praying. I can hate you again. But prayer
is powerful. And I don't know how it works or
why it works.
Speaker 1 (36:28):
And I'll talk about that. I don't know. I just
know that prayer changes things. That's all I know. I
don't know how that happens.
Speaker 2 (36:35):
I don't know whether the prayer change something, or prayer
change my attitude towards it, or circumstances just changed because
of my attitude change.
Speaker 1 (36:43):
I don't know. I just know that when I pray,
things change. That's all I know.
Speaker 2 (36:50):
And I started to look at it from a different
I could not let the house go. I could not
let it go.
Speaker 1 (36:55):
I'm not gonna get through words here. I could not
let it go.
Speaker 2 (37:00):
If you asked me how I was doing, I said,
the house, house, pat, how are you doing today?
Speaker 1 (37:05):
She took the freaking house. She took my house.
Speaker 2 (37:09):
Two days later, Dennis, so hey, tough guy, how's your
way working today? He would say, Dennis the house man,
I'm still trying to get the house by, Dennis said
you know what, You're going to lose that house. No,
thanks for the support, Dennis. You know, so somebody suggested
(37:29):
that I go in the back of the book and
read page five point fifty two, which is a story
is written by a woman, which I refused to read
it first, but in the back of the book it
talks about praying for somebody, whether you mean it or not,
for two weeks straight, every day, every day, two weeks straight,
and you will come to meet it. And I said,
(37:51):
this is bs. But this losing the house thing is torture.
In about a week and a half through that praying,
because I was desperate, I was that was gonna kill me.
That resemble was gonna kill me. It was gonna have
me pick up a drink. And halfway through, like I
don't know what a week, in a couple of days,
you know what came onto my heart. You know what
came into my head was Pat, are you really going
(38:13):
to kick your children out of their bedrooms? Wow? Where
did that come from? H Where did that come from?
That wasn't me, That wasn't me, Pat, Do you really
want to make the mother of your children miserable? I
(38:35):
saw Dennis the next day I was all excited.
Speaker 1 (38:37):
The Fox should get me some releef.
Speaker 2 (38:39):
Tennis said, hey, how's your way working?
Speaker 1 (38:41):
Tough guy.
Speaker 2 (38:42):
Dennis was like a Chicago gangster that got sober and
uh and and I said, Dennis.
Speaker 1 (38:48):
I'm over the house. I'm done with the house. So
I'm glad to hear it. You'll probably keep it. And
he walked away.
Speaker 2 (38:54):
You know, I don't know how you guys know that shit.
You know, it's like surrender to win. You know, it's
like surrender, give it up to keep it. You know
these paradoxes that are in the in the in the
doctor paradox story in the second edition. Right, and I
call her up. I said, I don't want the house.
(39:15):
You can have the house.
Speaker 1 (39:15):
I don't want the house. First off, I can't afford
the house.
Speaker 2 (39:19):
She said, get us to an apartment and we'll move
into the apartment. You take the damn house. Right, I'm
still in that house. It's thirty four years later. I
was still.
Speaker 1 (39:36):
Crazy. Right. Fear the same thing.
Speaker 2 (39:44):
Fear's stealing time for me, just stealing time from me,
you know, real or imagined, and most of mine is imagined.
And I share with you guys that my third step
is my my thinking turns to an emotion, which is
based on a lie, and then that that determines my
next move. My moves were always determined on how I felt,
(40:05):
not what the facts were, but what I was afraid of.
What is gonna happen? I'm not gonna get what I want.
I'm i gonna lose what I got?
Speaker 1 (40:13):
Right? What about me? What's in it for me?
Speaker 2 (40:16):
How much is mine? Always about me?
Speaker 1 (40:20):
Me? Me? Me?
Speaker 2 (40:22):
How can you live like that when you're constantly worried
about what you're not gonna get or what they're gonna take,
you know, living in the wreckage of the future.
Speaker 1 (40:30):
I mean, how do you That's the way I lived?
Speaker 2 (40:34):
Predicting the future or replay in the past, fear constantly
the whole inventory, and we can go down Paradoxville with
the inventory.
Speaker 1 (40:44):
What are you afraid of? Life? Death? Right? Being alone?
Losing my girlfriend? Yeah, living, dying?
Speaker 2 (40:53):
I mean, we just it's just never getting a job,
losing the job, right, It's just everything that's underlying corroding
thread that Bill talks about, this beneath it all, and
I need to see the truth in it. You know
what the truth is? When I looked at Why am
I afraid? What am I afraid of?
Speaker 1 (41:09):
Why am I afraid?
Speaker 2 (41:10):
How does it make me feel? What part of me
is effected? What am I doing or not doing? I
don't trust God, I don't trust the universe.
Speaker 1 (41:21):
I don't trust you. I don't trust anybody.
Speaker 2 (41:24):
You know why, because I'm not trust for any not
trust for it. That's the punishment of the liar. They
can't believe anything. That's the punishment of the thief. Everybody's
out to get you. That's the punishment of the cheater.
They think everybody cheats.
Speaker 1 (41:42):
There's my punishment. I don't trust the process. Let it go.
Speaker 2 (41:48):
Stop trying to be the director. You made a decision
to get a new director.
Speaker 1 (41:54):
Stop it. Trust the force. Trust the force, Lou. You know.
Speaker 2 (42:03):
A lot of Star Wars analogies, right, that's that's like
you got Yoda on one shoulder and Darth on the other. Right,
Yoda saying do the right thing you must, and Darts
staying fuck them. You know, I think we'll need to
finish the six I'll tell you what I want to
close with.
Speaker 1 (42:24):
You've got a couple of minutes.
Speaker 2 (42:25):
It's one of one of the readings one of my
favorite writers is Nicky Gumble that I read.
Speaker 1 (42:33):
I do a bunch of reads I shared with you.
Had sends me readings and sends me readings.
Speaker 2 (42:37):
I give readings from a bunch of people that I
read every morning pretty much. Nicky Gumble is one of
those that I love. But he writes this about fear.
Speaker 1 (42:44):
Right.
Speaker 2 (42:45):
At one level, fear is healthy, as as resentments on
a level can be beneficial. I can learn from resentments, right.
You can learn not to do that again, you know,
or not to say that again.
Speaker 1 (42:57):
You know. I talked about the drug thing.
Speaker 2 (42:58):
I said something about drugs, and somebody came up that's
to the meeting said that drug saved my life. Well,
you have non right, and I got my chest blowed
up to over prescribed. On the way home, I did
an inventory.
Speaker 1 (43:11):
I went to she was right, she was absolutely right.
Speaker 2 (43:13):
I'm not a doctor, but I know what do I
know about what people need or don't need?
Speaker 1 (43:18):
I have no right.
Speaker 2 (43:19):
Ever, I went back and apologized to that group and
never said anything like that again in a meeting.
Speaker 1 (43:24):
You know, I learned from the mistake.
Speaker 2 (43:26):
I learned from the resentment, and so it can be healthy, right,
And fear can be healthy, right, It's an emotion induced
by a perceived threat. Right, it's natural human emotion, it's
God given. It's a basic survival mechanism. It keeps us alive,
it protects us from danger. However, there's also such a
thing as unhealthy fear. The Greek word commonly uses phobus,
(43:48):
which is we use phobia. It's an unhealthy fear. It's disapproaching,
disproportionate to the danger posed. Right, it's an exaggerated danger. Right,
the danger isn't really there. I'm exaggerating the danger, or
I'm in imagining the danger. Right, it's false evidence appearing real.
Speaker 1 (44:07):
We hear that and here all the time.
Speaker 2 (44:08):
It's when I catastrophicize, overestimating the danger and underestimating my
ability to cope. Common phobias are fears in relation to health, finances, failure, growing,
old death, loneliness, rejection, screwing up public speaking, flying heights, snakes, spiders, cockroaches.
(44:29):
They also include things is what is what is now
called fomo, right, the fear of missing out, the fear
of not being special. In my own life, I experienced
many fears.
Speaker 1 (44:38):
Roaches.
Speaker 2 (44:39):
Maybe I'll talk about it later. From that, roaches is
like it's like we don't have them. My wife says,
sometimes we don't know, we don't panic attacks and other
irrational fears, the fear of speaking, the fear of doing
anything that might dishonest, dishonor this program.
Speaker 1 (44:57):
That's my fear.
Speaker 2 (44:58):
I want to represent. I want to represent what AA
really is. I don't want to be that person says,
that's not what we do here. You know, I don't
want to mislead, and so I have a fear of
representing this accurately and in a good spirit. Whereas the
spirit of God does not produce a negative fear. It's
the kind of healthy fear, the fear of God, and
(45:20):
that does not mean being frightened of God. In fact,
it means the opposite. It's an understanding of who God
is in relation to us. It means respect, reverence, all honor, adoration,
and worship could even be translated to the love of God.
It recognizes that power, majesty, and holiness of God Almighty.
It leads to healthy respect of God and is the
(45:41):
anecdote to all other fears and phobias. We experience a
life fear God, and you need not fear anything else
or anyone else. Love God, and you do not fear
anything or anyone.
Speaker 1 (45:55):
I'm not going to read the Last Life, but it's
ten traditions and kind of.
Speaker 2 (46:00):
The prayer they give us in the in the fear
of inventory, isn't it we.
Speaker 1 (46:05):
Ask God to remove our fear at once we have
the courage to walk through it.
Speaker 2 (46:11):
I don't think fear is the courage is the absence
of fear in my life. Courage is the ability to
walk through it. Colleagues are recognized, I am exaggerating this fear.
I'm not even there yet. I have a job to
do that I have never done before, and I'm caught
up in this, in this amazing anxiety and fear. We
were a job that I haven't even seen yet, and
(46:33):
I realize I'm overestimating the danger. You know, get there first,
Ask God, God, just get me to the job.
Speaker 1 (46:41):
Have me show up.
Speaker 2 (46:42):
We'll decide then whether we can do this or not.
You know, but don't let me spend my whole day
worrying about step seven. Might stop seven at the end
of the day, and that's I'll let I'll let that
fear steal that day from me. I'm done letting you
and fear steal my life.
Speaker 1 (47:00):
This book has given me away on it.
Speaker 2 (47:02):
Next week we'll talk about the relations with images.
Recovered alcoholic. My name is pat Rogan. Pat Rogan, but
thanks to the twelve Steps of Alcoholics.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
Anonymous outlined in this Big Book of Alcoholics Anonymous, which
is the program of AA, I have recovered from a
seemingly hopeless state of mind and body. And I can't
even tell you how grateful I am. I just I
get emotional every time I say it.
Speaker 1 (00:22):
It's just AA.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Didn't just save my life, but it gave me a
new life. And my life is incredible, just incredible. Regardless
of all the other outside circumstances and everything, the life
that I've been given because of this fellowship and the
program of Alcoholics Anonymous.
Speaker 1 (00:40):
Is just amazing. I get to hang out with you guys.
I mean it's just so cool.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
I mean, you guys are everywhere, by the way, you know,
I mean, no matter where I go the hockey games,
we have enough people at our hockey games that we go.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
To to have a meeting.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
You know, we talk about passing the basketball. We're there,
you know, right Gifts there. I mean there's a bunch
of guys there, and Sheldon, just a bunch of guys
that Charlie's usually there and Christian and Kate. Just really, Karen,
I mean, just a bunch of people. And you know,
I go to concerts. I run into you guys at concerts.
(01:15):
I mean, it's just just I'm just an amazing way
of life if you buy into it, you know, if
you're I guess, if you're desperate enough.
Speaker 1 (01:23):
To buy into it, you know.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
So we're on week five, Step four, which is my
normal case, a lot as far behind as I usually
am here, but uh, it won't beg fall more behind.
I just think that there's you know, we're laying a foundation.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
Here in the first five.
Speaker 2 (01:45):
You know, we're laying a foundation for the way of life,
you know, and it's just so damn important to get
these first four, these first five correct, you know. And
it just so I spend a lot of time on
the first five step first four really, and then and
then the real miracle, hopefully the real transformation starts to
(02:06):
take place as a result of four and five, and
then and then we have a way of life. We
got six and seven, of the rest of our lives,
eight and nine, the rest of our lives ten and
eleven and twelve.
Speaker 1 (02:15):
Is the way of life.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
So you know, we got to lay this foundation though,
and we just read what I always say, the requirements
for recovery, you know, in the ABCS, you know, being
convinced of the ABC's. Hopefully that's where you're at, that
you're convinced that that your life your alcoholic, your life's
on managemble. No human power can solve that problem and
(02:37):
God can and will that you sought. Hopefully you're convinced
to that. And if I'm sponsoring you and you're not
convinced to that, we're done.
Speaker 1 (02:44):
That's just it.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
Call me any time you need to, but we're done
working the steps, you know, because to me, that's a requirement.
Those those two steps are requirement for recovery. You don't
get that. Why would you not Why would you do that?
Why would you look in the mirror and do self examined?
Why would you confess? Why would you do why would
you pay people back? You know, why would you do
(03:09):
that if you didn't have to?
Speaker 1 (03:11):
You know.
Speaker 2 (03:12):
So that brings us to the third step that we
talked about last week, that we made a decision to
seek this way of life. We made a decision to
seek new direction, right to stop trying to run the show.
And we use words like The first requirement is that
we be convinced that any life around on self.
Speaker 1 (03:32):
Will cannot be a success.
Speaker 2 (03:33):
You know that any life that I am in charge
of cannot be a success.
Speaker 1 (03:37):
How do I know that? Look at my history. Look
at my history.
Speaker 2 (03:41):
And I would argue that when I first got here
by the way, you know, or if people would tell me,
pt this has to be your number one priorities.
Speaker 1 (03:47):
Oh no, No, I got kids and those kids need money.
Speaker 2 (03:52):
So I need a job, right, and I need a
job so I can put a house or a roof
over their head. So you know this is important. And
then they had to remind me, Pat, that's all gone,
you lost all that. That's why you're here. You have
a restraining order on you, you can't see your.
Speaker 1 (04:09):
Kids, she took the house.
Speaker 2 (04:13):
You've been arrested, you have charges, you have court date,
and I have to be reminded that, yes, this needs
to be the most important thing in my life.
Speaker 1 (04:23):
Right.
Speaker 2 (04:24):
So I've made a decision to seek God's direction. I'm
taking a new position. I'm no longer drug.
Speaker 1 (04:29):
He is the director. I am the actor. He is
the principal. I am the agent.
Speaker 2 (04:34):
He is the father. I am the child. I am
now going to seek direction. And I like to think
I am now making a decision to live a life
based on spiritual principle. I like just based on principles, right,
I like based on principles, because what the book has
told me is that I am selfish, and I am
(04:55):
self centered, and I'm by fear, self pity, self delusion.
I'm an extreme example of self all roun riot and
I don't think so and now, and this is where
I got confused, And this is where I think I
was misinformed. Like I heard things like, well, if you
(05:16):
don't get three, don't move on to four. Right, if
you don't get one, you don't move on to two.
You don't get two, you don't move on to three.
You got to get three.
Speaker 1 (05:23):
To move on to four, you know. And it's not
it's just the opposite. It's just the opposite.
Speaker 2 (05:28):
That one step builds on the next, and that step
builds on the next, and that step builds on the next.
Speaker 1 (05:33):
That's the way this is. But I didn't know.
Speaker 2 (05:34):
That, so I read things like we were reborn after
the third step prayer that we did last week here together, right,
And I did I made this, Yes'm I'm willing.
Speaker 1 (05:45):
I made the decision. I got on my knees with
my sponsor. I did the third step prayer. I got up.
I didn't feel shit.
Speaker 2 (05:54):
The restraining order was still there, the lawsuit and the
chargers were still there. She still had the House bill
calls it worldly clamors, right, the worldly clamors were still there.
Speaker 1 (06:07):
And I'm not feeling any book.
Speaker 2 (06:09):
And the book told me that if I take this position,
remarkable things are gonna happen.
Speaker 1 (06:16):
I didn't read the rest.
Speaker 2 (06:18):
About doing if I did his work, well, you know,
I didn't read that part right.
Speaker 1 (06:24):
And I didn't have an experience as some people have.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
I know Stevie talks about having an experience after step three.
Speaker 1 (06:31):
He had a spiritual awakening after step three.
Speaker 2 (06:33):
I did not have that. I did not feel better.
And I'm under this impression that.
Speaker 1 (06:37):
I've got to get this to move on.
Speaker 2 (06:41):
Misinformed. I'm misinformed. So I go to these open depression meetings,
open disgusting.
Speaker 1 (06:48):
What do you do.
Speaker 2 (06:51):
You?
Speaker 1 (06:51):
What are you telling? The open discussion meetings?
Speaker 2 (06:56):
And and and I'm share because does anybody have a problem. Yeah,
bitch took the house. She will not give the house back,
she will not drop the charges, and there's always somebody
(07:19):
well meaning in the meeting that says you need to
turn that off.
Speaker 1 (07:24):
Put that into God box. I need an attorney, That's what
I so. I Jim b is doing this.
Speaker 2 (07:39):
Third Step talk at the fifth Chapter club when they
moved over to Lot of the Lakes from Lighthouse Point,
and I'm listening to Jim and Jim's talking this third
Step like this miracle is going to take place, and
this and that. And I got to the gym after the
meeting and I said, Jim, I'm.
Speaker 1 (07:54):
Not getting it. He said, why aren't you getting I'm not.
I'm not don feel rebold.
Speaker 2 (08:01):
I'm feeling worse than I did when I did the
Third Step. I just nothing's changing, nothing's getting better. And
he said, well, what did the book say? What did
they say you were? And I said, are you talking
about that selfish, self centered thing driven by fear and
self delusion, self pity and I step on the toes
(08:26):
of my fellows and they retaliate and this self will
run riot thing extreme example.
Speaker 1 (08:31):
He said, yeah, that thing. He said, do you agree?
Speaker 2 (08:34):
I said no, no, I don't think He said we
Why don't you find out if it's true?
Speaker 1 (08:40):
And put a pen to paper.
Speaker 2 (08:42):
Why don't you see if they're right, Maybe they're wrong,
Maybe you're right God, maybe you are a giver. Why
don't you put it on paper and see if you're
if they're right about what they're saying about, see if
you really are selfish and self centered and driven by fear.
Speaker 1 (08:58):
And the books said as much.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
If you just move on, it gives you a timeline
right after the third step, next.
Speaker 1 (09:08):
Next.
Speaker 2 (09:09):
It doesn't say next year, next month. After you get
step three. See what Jim told me was, guess what,
pat It's either unattainable or unsustainable if you don't take action.
What you've made a decision to do is take action.
You can make a decision to go see your son
in Jacksonville all you want, but if you stay home,
(09:31):
you're not gonna go see your son in Jacksonville. You
don't take some kind of action, you don't get in
the car and actually head north.
Speaker 1 (09:37):
You're not gonna see your son. Fourth step is the
same thing.
Speaker 2 (09:41):
You don't take something. You made a decision to seek
God's direction. Now, if you don't take some action, nothing
is gonna happen. And he explained to me the decision
you made was to do steps four through nine. That's
the decision you just made, was to seek God's direction.
That's how you fine and seek God's direction as you
(10:02):
do the rest of the steps at once, and then
it tells me next and that at once we find
out we find out what are the causes and conditions
to that alcohol was just a symptom of the underlying issues.
Speaker 1 (10:20):
We need to get down to causes and conditions.
Speaker 2 (10:22):
This will have little permanent effect unless at once followed
by an effort to be rid of the things that
are blocking me from the sunlight of the spirit. We
know that God is within the what is blocking me
from having a relationship with that God within? That to me,
by the way, was the miracle paragraph in this book
when they told me where God was. I was going
(10:45):
from church to church looking for God. I don't have
to stop looking. They told me, it's God within. It's
your conscious, that's your soul, it's you know, and right
from wrong. It's that voice that tells you that's wrong.
And the voice that says put the aren't back that
you know, that's that voice. It says stop and help
those people pick up that litter. That voice, that voice
(11:12):
that says, Oh my god, did you really do that?
How are you going to live with that? And I
don't know any other way to live with that? But
taking a drink. That's how I got absolution. Was through
the bottle, got permission and then absolution. But I can't
live with that anymore. See the conversation shifted, didn't it.
It went from mental physical, and then it went the
(11:34):
behavior on step three. That is my behavior and this
is the issue. It's my taking those instinctual drives beyond
what God intended to be used for taking that social instinct,
that security instinct and net sexian is beyond what they
were intended to be useful.
Speaker 1 (11:53):
There's the measure of the defective character. By the way, where.
Speaker 2 (11:55):
God intended me to use those instinctual drives and then
where I took them, there's the measure.
Speaker 1 (12:00):
How do I reel them in?
Speaker 2 (12:03):
Or do I even think I need to real them
or do I think I'm even misusing them?
Speaker 1 (12:08):
I think I think the.
Speaker 2 (12:11):
First off, I think we discourage people in the rooms
from doing a four step.
Speaker 1 (12:15):
I think we scare them out of the fourth step,
And oh my god, what do you get to step four?
Oh my god, I'm on step four, gam you know.
Speaker 2 (12:28):
This is a positive step. This is not a list
of dirty nasty things I did. This is a list
of things that are blocking me from the sunlight of
the spirit.
Speaker 1 (12:37):
That's what these are.
Speaker 2 (12:39):
I think that maybe maybe some of you are confused
by the business inventory, but I was. I thought the
business inventory was a work of genius, right fact finding
and fact facing effort to find the truth. That explains
searching and fearless moral doesn't it? Because that confuse me
searching and fearless moral moral. I didn't know men truth
(13:00):
until somebody explained it to me. I know Bill wanted
us to write a list of dirty nasty things on
a piece of paper. He would have said immoral or immoral.
He would not have said moral. This is this is
Let's find the facts, Let's face the facts, and let's
see if they're right.
Speaker 1 (13:15):
Let's see what the truth is here. I thought it
was genius resentment.
Speaker 2 (13:25):
Then he goes right on right into he's talking about
this is the first time and the only time in
the book you'll see the word disease.
Speaker 1 (13:32):
Right.
Speaker 2 (13:34):
Not only are we mentally and physically ill, but we
are spiritually sick. That we suffer from a spiritual disease.
The conversation is changing again. It went mental, physical, behavioral,
and now he's going spiritual, that we are spiritually sick
(13:56):
caused by our behavior. But I don't think so. But
I don't think so. I think I'm a victim. I
think I've been a victim here. Nobody understands me, a
victim of bad breaks and misunderstandings. I'm a grown ass
man and people are trying to tell me what to do.
Nobody tells me what to do. We don't care about
(14:21):
disease here. We don't care whether alcoholism is a disease
or not. We know now that it is, but we
don't care. What we care about is what's the solution.
That's what the book goes to.
Speaker 1 (14:34):
Now.
Speaker 2 (14:34):
I believe, by the way, that's why the doctor's opinions
outside the body of the book, Because we don't care
about the medical aspect and all that we don't he
doesn't really it gives us some credibility because there's a
doctor writing it. We don't care why we're mentally or
physically ill. What we want to know is how do
we fix it? That's what this book is targeting. How
do we fix it? So we don't overcome. If I
(14:58):
don't always speak for me, I don't overcome this. Mark
Houston called it an internal condition. I love that because
I didn't get spiritual disease or spiritual sickness. He called
it this internal condition that is the byproduct of my behavior.
And it feels like resentment and anger and fear and
(15:18):
guilt and remorse and shame.
Speaker 1 (15:20):
It feels like that.
Speaker 2 (15:22):
Unless I do something about that, the anxiety, the torment.
Unless I do something about that, I cannot not drink
because I don't know. I don't have another solution. I
cannot white knuckle it. I cannot will myself to make
that feeling go away.
Speaker 1 (15:44):
That's a problem. That is a problem. And I'd love
to tell you that it is completely gone away. Has not.
I still and we'll talk about when we get to fear.
Fear is still my thorn.
Speaker 2 (15:56):
You don't know me, know that I have panic attacks
before I speak during the day, you know, But it but.
Speaker 1 (16:04):
It brings me to God. It's my thorn.
Speaker 2 (16:06):
Yeah, I use it as almost like an asset today.
There was a time where it was just I didn't
know what I was gonna do. I did not know
what I was gonna do when I got here about
that internal condition?
Speaker 1 (16:19):
How do I live with that? You know?
Speaker 2 (16:22):
And I believe you know, we call it a we
call it a pink cloud, but but I believe that
we are given this spiritual window where we're willing to
do what it takes to overcome alcoholism or drug addiction.
And if somebody doesn't grab us from all that window
is open and introduce us to the program of action,
(16:46):
we're not gonna be able to hold our breath long enough.
We're not gonna be able to lean on this fellowship
long enough to stay sober. Yeah, I think we disrespectfully
called it a pink cloud. I think it's a spiritual window.
You know, it's a it's a window of opportunity. And
that's why I'm about working these steps quickly, you know.
(17:06):
That's why I'm about let's get in the book, let's
get up. We do a workshop and the other room here,
and we take people through the steps in five weeks,
you know, because it's about stopping the bleeding, right, It's
it's it's we're bleeding out. Let's let's get a foundation here,
let's get something underasy, Let's find another solution.
Speaker 1 (17:25):
Other than drugs and alcohol. This is triage, man, That's
what this is. This is trioge. Just take your time. Ship.
You may not be one of us. You could take
your time. You may not want Now.
Speaker 2 (17:42):
I'm not saying I didn't lean on the fellowship for
three months. So I was in here just leaning on
a fellowship. I know people have leaned on it. Something
can make it a year, Some can make it a
couple of years. Living a life of what Bill call it,
of quiet desperation.
Speaker 1 (17:57):
Hanging in there. How you doing hanging in there?
Speaker 2 (18:02):
Three meetings today called my sponsor five times, a couple
hours of another twenty four. That's not what this promises.
This promises peace, serenity, life. I couldn't even imagine a
(18:25):
life that I couldn't even imagine.
Speaker 1 (18:28):
And I'll tell you one of the what's the solution
to a spiritual sickness? It's a spiritual solution. If it
was medical, we'd all go get.
Speaker 2 (18:42):
Some medicine or some pills or some treatment from a
medical doctor and it would be done.
Speaker 1 (18:47):
It was psychiatric. If it was just psychiatric, we'd go
to a psychiatrist.
Speaker 2 (18:51):
He would prescribe, give us some therapy, talk about our
childhood issues or whatever.
Speaker 1 (18:55):
That what issues we have, and we'd overcome them and
we wouldn't need a drink. But this is different.
Speaker 2 (19:02):
And by the way, I'm not saying not to treat
mental and psychological issues. We are not doctors. We have
no right to ever tell you what to do in
that area. Nobody gives the right here to tell you
you shouldn't take meds.
Speaker 1 (19:17):
That a psychiatrist has prescribed to you.
Speaker 2 (19:19):
I mean, if you have legitimate mental issues, you'll never
get this unless you take care of that.
Speaker 1 (19:26):
By the way, if you don't take care of this,
you'll never get that either.
Speaker 2 (19:31):
It works to hand in hand, but we shouldn't even
have an opinion on it, might even talk about that.
Speaker 1 (19:37):
I did have an opinion on it once got it.
The resentment, which is the.
Speaker 2 (19:46):
Number one of ender that we're going to talk about,
that's what so the spiritual sickness manifests itself in resentment
and anger, fear, guilt, remorse, and shame. That's the internal
condition that we're talking about. That's the spiritual malady that
we're talking about. How do we treat that spiritual malady?
But we have to inventory, we have to see what
is going on what is happening here?
Speaker 1 (20:06):
What is the truth here?
Speaker 2 (20:09):
Number one offender kills more alcoholics than anything.
Speaker 1 (20:12):
Else, But I love it.
Speaker 2 (20:13):
And then Bill goes on and says, fear is the
underlying coroti thread beneath it all.
Speaker 1 (20:17):
So what's the number one offender? I know this.
Speaker 2 (20:23):
I know resentment and fear steal time for me, Absolutely
steal time for me. And by the way, everybody deals
with resentments. The difference is we die over it.
Speaker 1 (20:33):
That's the difference.
Speaker 2 (20:34):
Normies are out there resentful as hell, right. They may
even have a couple of drinks and go to bed
and they're all right, don't smoke a joint.
Speaker 1 (20:41):
They're fine. But it kills us. It kills us. It
just dominates me. This dominates me.
Speaker 2 (20:52):
The book says, real more imagine resentment, refeel to refeel right.
Speaker 1 (21:00):
Over and over and over again.
Speaker 2 (21:02):
Somebody says something to me that pisses me off. They
walk away, they go on with life, and it steals
my day, my week, my.
Speaker 1 (21:11):
Month, my life. I've resented dead people.
Speaker 2 (21:18):
They're not even on the planet anymore, and I'm pissed
off at them.
Speaker 1 (21:26):
Kills more alcoholic than anything else.
Speaker 2 (21:29):
And by the way, that is why we suggest not
getting into relationships early in recovery. They do create resentments.
First off, we're needy when we get here. We're looking
for a substitute for the drugs or alcohol, and you're it,
You're the new drug. Yeah, and it was God's will
(21:49):
because we were in the medline together, you know, and
we left treatment and there we were seven eleven, you know,
bustof we voted the bush.
Speaker 1 (22:00):
It's meant to be. Yeah, will you sleep with me? Yes,
move in? You know what, my here's here's my here's
here's how it works for me.
Speaker 2 (22:19):
You sleep with me, you move in, We have a child,
we get married.
Speaker 1 (22:24):
And then we see if we like each other, We
see if we can get along.
Speaker 2 (22:31):
Just the opposite of the way, just the opposite of
the relationship, right the first time after by the way
that I did anything that way, you know, it's it's
like you'll send a Facebook I love you and then
there's no response.
Speaker 1 (22:47):
Yeah, son of a bitch, you know, I love your
brains out unbelievable, keep bloking. And she's I know, she's
said the green lights on the green dot is there?
Speaker 2 (23:00):
Get it?
Speaker 1 (23:01):
And then she comments on somebody else's ship.
Speaker 2 (23:03):
Right, she's sleeping with that guy.
Speaker 1 (23:10):
Two flakes making a blizzard. Man, that's what he's what.
Here's what it is.
Speaker 2 (23:16):
My life is unmanageable and I want to share it
with you, right, That's what it is.
Speaker 1 (23:23):
It kills it absolutely.
Speaker 2 (23:24):
Get a foundation under you, get through the steps. Let
her or him get through the steps and get a
foundation under that. Because I want to tell you this,
and I get to do this, and I know there's
other people in this room to get to do this.
I get to walk a spiritual way of life with
my partner. I get to walk the road of recovery
with somebody who's practicing spiritual principles to the best of
(23:45):
their ability, and I'm practicing at the best of my ability.
Speaker 1 (23:49):
It's a beautiful thing.
Speaker 2 (23:50):
It is an absolutely beautiful thing that I get to
do m and it's because of these principles, because I'm
our relationship is based on these pends.
Speaker 1 (24:01):
And I want to tell you.
Speaker 2 (24:02):
Something when I'm when when we met, our first date
was at Bubba Gump Shrimp Company.
Speaker 1 (24:09):
That was just romantic.
Speaker 2 (24:12):
First thing I said to her, And this wasn't my idea,
this was my sponsor's idea. Can we take sex off
the table? Can we take it off the table and
get to know each other and see if we like
each other before we have children?
Speaker 1 (24:33):
Anyways? Like that?
Speaker 2 (24:34):
Chress so real or imagine right. So, so I'm in
my home group, and I'm Kurt knows that people that
know me know that I'm a stickler of being on
your phone during the meant a matter of fact, if I'm
on it, don't call me on it, but but I
call them on it.
Speaker 1 (24:50):
Stay off your freaking phone, Turn it.
Speaker 2 (24:52):
Off, stick in your pocket, put it away, no cross stock,
pay attention, Focus on the speaker, Focus on what's.
Speaker 1 (24:58):
Going on in the meeting, right, And I'm just.
Speaker 2 (25:01):
And so I'm talking to one of my sponsors in
the meeting, and some old timer goes.
Speaker 1 (25:08):
And all my sponsors are sitting there, nig I just
got yelled at for.
Speaker 2 (25:13):
His own rule, you know. And I didn't hear anybody.
I didn't hear another word in that meeting. I didn't
hear another word that speaker said. It started.
Speaker 1 (25:23):
I can't believe he just did that.
Speaker 2 (25:25):
I can't believe he just embarrassed me like that. And I, uh,
when I left the meeting, and he said, man, you
look a little pissed off.
Speaker 1 (25:35):
I said, yeah, he said.
Speaker 2 (25:36):
Why I said, you hear him tell me to shut up?
That isn't what he did, is it? He went, I
heard shut up? And somebody else said, really you said
he said, shut the fuck up? I said, in my
(25:58):
own home group. Ah, and now what ill is yourself?
Speaker 1 (26:00):
Pity?
Speaker 2 (26:01):
I want your support? They go, Oh, I wouldn't do
I wouldn't take that. You know, I wouldn't. You ought
to say something? You know, Well, maybe you should get
another hugger. Yeah, I think I should get another hugger.
This is a bullshit that I should be treated like
this here, real or imagined. How many people we judge
We don't even know them. I judge they're walking towards me,
and I judge who they are or what they're like.
(26:23):
I imagine something that's not even true. Don't even give them
a chance to say hello. And I've already realized I
don't want a relationship with them. I don't like them,
don't know their name, and I don't like them. Am
I only one anyways? So I think, like, I don't
(26:49):
know if anybody's like me in their add a little bit,
add anything like that. Anybody read a page and not
know what they just read. I'm the only one right.
Like I can be reading three pages and somebody asked me,
what do you reading? I I was thinking about work tomorrow.
Speaker 1 (27:07):
Well, the same thing happens in the big book of it. Right.
Speaker 2 (27:10):
If we miss that next paragraph, we miss all the
instructions for the four step. All of them are missed.
In one paragraph, we listed each resentment. Listed means a
list of items top to bottom. Inventory, by definition, is
(27:30):
a list of items. I want to see what items
are sellable, what items are broken?
Speaker 1 (27:38):
What items do we have to get rid of?
Speaker 2 (27:40):
So it says a list, which means we do one
column top to bottom. Why because we don't want to
keep changing our minds. Here's why I don't want.
Speaker 1 (27:47):
To do it.
Speaker 2 (27:48):
I don't want to relive it. I'm trying to inventory it.
I'll relive it in five, but I don't want to
relive it in four. I just want to do an inventory.
So I go top to bottom. Who am I pissed
off at? Whom I resent for to, who do I
not like? And I have my original fourth step right here.
It's not that big, it's one page. Stop the bleeding.
(28:09):
I don't have to talk about the guy that pulled
the chair out of front of me in third grade,
or the kids that beat me up outside of grade school.
That's not renting space in my head. You know what's
right in space in my house. My wife, she divorced me.
Speaker 1 (28:25):
My wife. She took my house. You're what I said,
my house.
Speaker 2 (28:32):
No, that's why it's written she took, not ours.
Speaker 1 (28:37):
She took my house. My wife. She had me arrested.
Speaker 2 (28:42):
She pressed charges short and specific. I'm gonna tell the
story later on. But all I didn't want to do
right now is inventory it the police.
Speaker 1 (28:52):
They arrested me. They charged me with as Sultan battery.
Speaker 2 (28:57):
Her lawyer, he wants me to pay him. Her lawyer
wants me to pay him. He says, by law, I'm
gonna pay him.
Speaker 1 (29:08):
The I R s they froze my checking account.
Speaker 2 (29:14):
I thought Ira Levey was some guy. I said, who's
Iris Levee? I thought it was some Jewish god count
or something. You know, it was Ir s Levee. And
my father was on there. My dad's on there. Why
(29:35):
am I mad at her?
Speaker 1 (29:37):
You know, I told you?
Speaker 2 (29:38):
Why am I mad at arrested me? Why am I
not he wants my money? Why am I od at
the rs. They want my money? Why am I mad
at my father? He left us when I was five,
He paid never paid a diamond child support, He used
and beat my mother in front of us children.
Speaker 1 (29:52):
Short and specific, and then it.
Speaker 2 (29:55):
Goes on to ask, well, what part of me was
affected by that? And I was listening to care and
she did her series here and it just gave me
a whole different outlook. On that third column in the
big book, it talks about the social instinct and security
instinct and the sex instinct.
Speaker 1 (30:09):
Which makes sense. Is affecting my self.
Speaker 2 (30:12):
Esteem or my personal relationships or my material my pocketbook,
or my emotional.
Speaker 1 (30:17):
Security or the sex instinct? You know?
Speaker 2 (30:21):
And that's a great question, but I have a hard
time figuring it out unless when I heard her say
how did that.
Speaker 1 (30:26):
Make me feel?
Speaker 2 (30:28):
How did what she do make me feel? Now I
can identify the instinct. I almost want to add that
column into my four step you know, it was just
it just makes more sense. How did her divorce to
me make me feel?
Speaker 1 (30:43):
Well?
Speaker 2 (30:44):
It definitely talked to me. Hit my social instinct right,
made me feel less? Then invest with my self esteem.
I'm a failure. That's how it made me feel like
a failure made me feel broke because because she took everything,
(31:04):
took all my staff, and my sex instinct obviously was
affected because I wasn't getting any up to that, you know,
I was How how being arrested by the police in
my front yard make me feel with my neighbors watching?
Speaker 1 (31:20):
Come on?
Speaker 2 (31:22):
That affected the social instincts? Huh, the self esteem, security instinct.
Speaker 1 (31:28):
Now I got charges.
Speaker 2 (31:31):
It's gonna affect my future. Damn right, salt battery charges. Yeah,
it gonna affect my future.
Speaker 1 (31:39):
How's the irs?
Speaker 2 (31:41):
How did I feel when the irs attached my money?
Speaker 1 (31:45):
Yeah? Security instinct big time.
Speaker 2 (31:48):
So it just makes it I think that question makes
it so much easier to identify the instinct that's affected.
And the book says that once we see the truth
of it, because I mean, I got three names down
there and three what they did to me, and then
how it is affected.
Speaker 1 (32:03):
And I didn't even have.
Speaker 2 (32:04):
To do call them forwarding Holy shit, this is my fault.
Speaker 1 (32:08):
This is my fault.
Speaker 2 (32:09):
I didn't even have to get to the responsibility call.
I mean, when I did, it was a wake up call. Well,
if you don't stay out all night and you don't
have a girlfriend, and if you can't, you can't stay sober,
and you're never home and you don't assault your wife,
(32:29):
then they don't have you arrested, and they don't divorce you,
and they don't take that their house. And if you
don't assault your wife, the police don't come. I'm pissed
off of the police because they arrested me. They were called
to the scene, you know what I mean, like they had,
you know, have a choice.
Speaker 1 (32:47):
It's a nine won one call.
Speaker 2 (32:50):
When you start to see the truth, you start don't
so finally see the truth, find the facts and face.
Speaker 1 (32:57):
The facts and see the truth. Right, Yeah, I r s.
It wasn't my money they wanted. It was theirs.
Speaker 2 (33:03):
When you don't pay your taxes, they want their money.
They don't freeze your account if you pay your taxes.
My father, I needed to just own it. Kids are
not responsible for adults behavior. I am not responsible my
(33:25):
father's bad. If you were abused by an adult, you
are not responsible for that. They are the responsible party.
Speaker 1 (33:31):
But you need to own it. You need to own it.
Speaker 2 (33:35):
And work through it, you know, And we'll work through
it with the rest of the steps. If I get
to nine, I'm going to have to really take a
look at my father. You'm have to really take a
look at him. And the book talks about what is
the solution to these ones that will you cannot let
go of?
Speaker 1 (33:55):
You know what is it? Well, it's God.
Speaker 2 (33:58):
Right, The solution is a spirit We already talked about that.
Speaker 1 (34:01):
It's a spiritual sickness.
Speaker 2 (34:04):
The solution is spiritual, which means the solution is God.
Whatever you think that is the universe, creative intelligence, spirit
of the universe, energy, whatever you think that is a
power greater than human power. The solution is him or it. Well,
how do I communicate with Him or it?
Speaker 1 (34:22):
Prayer?
Speaker 2 (34:24):
Prayer, And that's the solution they're giving me to these
ones I cannot let go of. We start to look
at what to say, We start to look at life
from a different angle. Perhaps they have issues in their life, perhaps.
Speaker 1 (34:38):
They're spiritually sick too. You start to ask yourself, I.
Speaker 2 (34:42):
Wonder what's going on in their life that makes them
talk to me like that or treat me.
Speaker 1 (34:46):
Like that, or do that to me.
Speaker 2 (34:50):
I mean, let's just say, justifiable resentments are the worst
Clients who don't pay me for work that I did
not my fault, don't they know who they're screwing with.
They think because they're in a gated community, I'm not
going to blow up their mailbox. Come on, I'll follow somebody.
(35:10):
Yet I know how to get in there. So so
what good does that? What good does that do me?
Spiritually speaking? Didn't I just drop to their level? Didn't
I just fall to their level? They didn't pay me,
so I blew up their mailbox. That wouldn't look good
if I was up here talking about I got arrested
(35:31):
for blowing up a mailbox. So I can't do that.
That's the one thing about speaking right like you gotta
you got, you're accountable, You're accountable. Yeah, hypocrits get drunk.
Hypocrits will come up here and say they're doing something
they're not. They get drunk. And I'm not saying I'm perfect.
I ammittedly am broken, But I thought about blowing that mailbox.
Speaker 1 (35:55):
Up for a few days. They're not just one. It
happens a lot. So what do I do?
Speaker 2 (36:02):
I pray for those people. It's the most powerful act
of love you can show for another person, whether you.
Speaker 1 (36:07):
Mean it or not.
Speaker 2 (36:08):
Whether you mean it or not, hate and prayer can't
live in the same mind. It's a one car garage
up here. I'm either loving you or I'm hating you.
And if I'm praying for you, i'm loving you. Well,
I'm done praying. I can hate you again. But prayer
is powerful. And I don't know how it works or
why it works.
Speaker 1 (36:28):
And I'll talk about that. I don't know. I just
know that prayer changes things. That's all I know. I
don't know how that happens.
Speaker 2 (36:35):
I don't know whether the prayer change something, or prayer
change my attitude towards it, or circumstances just changed because
of my attitude change.
Speaker 1 (36:43):
I don't know. I just know that when I pray,
things change. That's all I know.
Speaker 2 (36:50):
And I started to look at it from a different
I could not let the house go. I could not
let it go.
Speaker 1 (36:55):
I'm not gonna get through words here. I could not
let it go.
Speaker 2 (37:00):
If you asked me how I was doing, I said,
the house, house, pat, how are you doing today?
Speaker 1 (37:05):
She took the freaking house. She took my house.
Speaker 2 (37:09):
Two days later, Dennis, so hey, tough guy, how's your
way working today? He would say, Dennis the house man,
I'm still trying to get the house by, Dennis said
you know what, You're going to lose that house. No,
thanks for the support, Dennis. You know, so somebody suggested
(37:29):
that I go in the back of the book and
read page five point fifty two, which is a story
is written by a woman, which I refused to read
it first, but in the back of the book it
talks about praying for somebody, whether you mean it or not,
for two weeks straight, every day, every day, two weeks straight,
and you will come to meet it. And I said,
(37:51):
this is bs. But this losing the house thing is torture.
In about a week and a half through that praying,
because I was desperate, I was that was gonna kill me.
That resemble was gonna kill me. It was gonna have
me pick up a drink. And halfway through, like I
don't know what a week, in a couple of days,
you know what came onto my heart. You know what
came into my head was Pat, are you really going
(38:13):
to kick your children out of their bedrooms? Wow? Where
did that come from? H Where did that come from?
That wasn't me, That wasn't me, Pat, Do you really
want to make the mother of your children miserable? I
(38:35):
saw Dennis the next day I was all excited.
Speaker 1 (38:37):
The Fox should get me some releef.
Speaker 2 (38:39):
Tennis said, hey, how's your way working?
Speaker 1 (38:41):
Tough guy.
Speaker 2 (38:42):
Dennis was like a Chicago gangster that got sober and
uh and and I said, Dennis.
Speaker 1 (38:48):
I'm over the house. I'm done with the house. So
I'm glad to hear it. You'll probably keep it. And
he walked away.
Speaker 2 (38:54):
You know, I don't know how you guys know that shit.
You know, it's like surrender to win. You know, it's
like surrender, give it up to keep it. You know
these paradoxes that are in the in the in the
doctor paradox story in the second edition. Right, and I
call her up. I said, I don't want the house.
(39:15):
You can have the house.
Speaker 1 (39:15):
I don't want the house. First off, I can't afford
the house.
Speaker 2 (39:19):
She said, get us to an apartment and we'll move
into the apartment. You take the damn house. Right, I'm
still in that house. It's thirty four years later. I
was still.
Speaker 1 (39:36):
Crazy. Right. Fear the same thing.
Speaker 2 (39:44):
Fear's stealing time for me, just stealing time from me,
you know, real or imagined, and most of mine is imagined.
And I share with you guys that my third step
is my my thinking turns to an emotion, which is
based on a lie, and then that that determines my
next move. My moves were always determined on how I felt,
(40:05):
not what the facts were, but what I was afraid of.
What is gonna happen? I'm not gonna get what I want.
I'm i gonna lose what I got?
Speaker 1 (40:13):
Right? What about me? What's in it for me?
Speaker 2 (40:16):
How much is mine? Always about me?
Speaker 1 (40:20):
Me? Me? Me?
Speaker 2 (40:22):
How can you live like that when you're constantly worried
about what you're not gonna get or what they're gonna take,
you know, living in the wreckage of the future.
Speaker 1 (40:30):
I mean, how do you That's the way I lived?
Speaker 2 (40:34):
Predicting the future or replay in the past, fear constantly
the whole inventory, and we can go down Paradoxville with
the inventory.
Speaker 1 (40:44):
What are you afraid of? Life? Death? Right? Being alone?
Losing my girlfriend? Yeah, living, dying?
Speaker 2 (40:53):
I mean, we just it's just never getting a job,
losing the job, right, It's just everything that's underlying corroding
thread that Bill talks about, this beneath it all, and
I need to see the truth in it. You know
what the truth is? When I looked at Why am
I afraid? What am I afraid of?
Speaker 1 (41:09):
Why am I afraid?
Speaker 2 (41:10):
How does it make me feel? What part of me
is effected? What am I doing or not doing? I
don't trust God, I don't trust the universe.
Speaker 1 (41:21):
I don't trust you. I don't trust anybody.
Speaker 2 (41:24):
You know why, because I'm not trust for any not
trust for it. That's the punishment of the liar. They
can't believe anything. That's the punishment of the thief. Everybody's
out to get you. That's the punishment of the cheater.
They think everybody cheats.
Speaker 1 (41:42):
There's my punishment. I don't trust the process. Let it go.
Speaker 2 (41:48):
Stop trying to be the director. You made a decision
to get a new director.
Speaker 1 (41:54):
Stop it. Trust the force. Trust the force, Lou. You know.
Speaker 2 (42:03):
A lot of Star Wars analogies, right, that's that's like
you got Yoda on one shoulder and Darth on the other. Right,
Yoda saying do the right thing you must, and Darts
staying fuck them. You know, I think we'll need to
finish the six I'll tell you what I want to
close with.
Speaker 1 (42:24):
You've got a couple of minutes.
Speaker 2 (42:25):
It's one of one of the readings one of my
favorite writers is Nicky Gumble that I read.
Speaker 1 (42:33):
I do a bunch of reads I shared with you.
Had sends me readings and sends me readings.
Speaker 2 (42:37):
I give readings from a bunch of people that I
read every morning pretty much. Nicky Gumble is one of
those that I love. But he writes this about fear.
Speaker 1 (42:44):
Right.
Speaker 2 (42:45):
At one level, fear is healthy, as as resentments on
a level can be beneficial. I can learn from resentments, right.
You can learn not to do that again, you know,
or not to say that again.
Speaker 1 (42:57):
You know. I talked about the drug thing.
Speaker 2 (42:58):
I said something about drugs, and somebody came up that's
to the meeting said that drug saved my life. Well,
you have non right, and I got my chest blowed
up to over prescribed. On the way home, I did
an inventory.
Speaker 1 (43:11):
I went to she was right, she was absolutely right.
Speaker 2 (43:13):
I'm not a doctor, but I know what do I
know about what people need or don't need?
Speaker 1 (43:18):
I have no right.
Speaker 2 (43:19):
Ever, I went back and apologized to that group and
never said anything like that again in a meeting.
Speaker 1 (43:24):
You know, I learned from the mistake.
Speaker 2 (43:26):
I learned from the resentment, and so it can be healthy, right,
And fear can be healthy, right, It's an emotion induced
by a perceived threat. Right, it's natural human emotion, it's
God given. It's a basic survival mechanism. It keeps us alive,
it protects us from danger. However, there's also such a
thing as unhealthy fear. The Greek word commonly uses phobus,
(43:48):
which is we use phobia. It's an unhealthy fear. It's disapproaching,
disproportionate to the danger posed. Right, it's an exaggerated danger. Right,
the danger isn't really there. I'm exaggerating the danger, or
I'm in imagining the danger. Right, it's false evidence appearing real.
Speaker 1 (44:07):
We hear that and here all the time.
Speaker 2 (44:08):
It's when I catastrophicize, overestimating the danger and underestimating my
ability to cope. Common phobias are fears in relation to health, finances, failure, growing,
old death, loneliness, rejection, screwing up public speaking, flying heights, snakes, spiders, cockroaches.
(44:29):
They also include things is what is what is now
called fomo, right, the fear of missing out, the fear
of not being special. In my own life, I experienced
many fears.
Speaker 1 (44:38):
Roaches.
Speaker 2 (44:39):
Maybe I'll talk about it later. From that, roaches is
like it's like we don't have them. My wife says,
sometimes we don't know, we don't panic attacks and other
irrational fears, the fear of speaking, the fear of doing
anything that might dishonest, dishonor this program.
Speaker 1 (44:57):
That's my fear.
Speaker 2 (44:58):
I want to represent. I want to represent what AA
really is. I don't want to be that person says,
that's not what we do here. You know, I don't
want to mislead, and so I have a fear of
representing this accurately and in a good spirit. Whereas the
spirit of God does not produce a negative fear. It's
the kind of healthy fear, the fear of God, and
(45:20):
that does not mean being frightened of God. In fact,
it means the opposite. It's an understanding of who God
is in relation to us. It means respect, reverence, all honor, adoration,
and worship could even be translated to the love of God.
It recognizes that power, majesty, and holiness of God Almighty.
It leads to healthy respect of God and is the
(45:41):
anecdote to all other fears and phobias. We experience a
life fear God, and you need not fear anything else
or anyone else. Love God, and you do not fear
anything or anyone.
Speaker 1 (45:55):
I'm not going to read the Last Life, but it's
ten traditions and kind of.
Speaker 2 (46:00):
The prayer they give us in the in the fear
of inventory, isn't it we.
Speaker 1 (46:05):
Ask God to remove our fear at once we have
the courage to walk through it.
Speaker 2 (46:11):
I don't think fear is the courage is the absence
of fear in my life. Courage is the ability to
walk through it. Colleagues are recognized, I am exaggerating this fear.
I'm not even there yet. I have a job to
do that I have never done before, and I'm caught
up in this, in this amazing anxiety and fear. We
were a job that I haven't even seen yet, and
(46:33):
I realize I'm overestimating the danger. You know, get there first,
Ask God, God, just get me to the job.
Speaker 1 (46:41):
Have me show up.
Speaker 2 (46:42):
We'll decide then whether we can do this or not.
You know, but don't let me spend my whole day
worrying about step seven. Might stop seven at the end
of the day, and that's I'll let I'll let that
fear steal that day from me. I'm done letting you
and fear steal my life.
Speaker 1 (47:00):
This book has given me away on it.
Speaker 2 (47:02):
Next week we'll talk about the relations with images.
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