December 3, 2025 • 31 mins
Pat Rogan Step 6-7-8, Step Series at the Tuesday night Step Group at the 12 Step House, Fort Lauderdale, FL, 12/2/2025.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Absolutely. So we were.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Talking about six and seven last week. I didn't I
didn't really finish the talk. But you know, these are
the two steps that Bill added when he wrote the
twelve steps, when he was writing the Big Book, you know,
the tools of change, you know. And I believe that
everything leads to these two steps, and then everything.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
Leads back to these two steps.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
And I'm a believer that the reason that it's short,
it's you know, six six lines and seven lines in
the in the twelve and twelve is because we're painfully
aware of our defects of character. By now right, I mean,
we admitted the powerlessness. We admitted that no human power
was going to solve the problem. We made a decision
to seek that power. And then it was about taking
a look in the mirror and seeing what is blocking
(00:47):
me from that power, what is putting me in conflict?
What's the conflict between me and that power greater than myself?
And for lack of a better term, God, right, and
whatever you think that is, that's what I'm talking about.
Whatever you think think that is, that's what I'm talking about.
Speaker 1 (01:01):
That's the cool thing about AA.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
We get to define God for ourselves, you know, and
that may change by the way it's changed for me
a few times down the road.
Speaker 1 (01:10):
But you know, whatever you think that is.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
And even if you're not a believer, we have the
choice of dying an alcoholic addict death or accept spiritual health.
Go on to the bitter end, blocking out and your
intolerable situation, or accept spiritual health. I mean, that's the
two choices that I faced when I got here.
Speaker 1 (01:28):
I don't know about you, you know, And.
Speaker 2 (01:30):
Like I said, I was desperate, so you couldn't scare
me out with any of those talk, you know. But
this is about connecting to a power that's going to
solve my problem. This whole this whole program is about
connection to that power that will solve my problem.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
Meaning there's nothing I can do about my problem that
God will solve the problem. We get to Step ten.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
That's what it said that He has solved the problem,
and that's what we've been trying to do. What's blocking
me from the sunlight of the spirit, what's blocking me
from the God within that is going to solve my problem?
And we talked about the step three. It's behavioral, wasn't it.
They talked about it's my behavior is my misuse of
the God given good.
Speaker 1 (02:14):
Instincts that make up self. Will, these God given.
Speaker 2 (02:18):
Instincts that are necessary for my survival, therefore good that
I have perverted for pleasure and has put me in
conflict with you, God or myself. And the only cure
I had for that conflict was a drink. That was
the only thing that would. Garrett used to say it
all the time, would give me permission, and then absolution, right,
(02:40):
give permission to do whatever I want for pleasure, no
matter who was affected, no matter who was hurt. And
then later when the guilt and the remorsement set in,
the booze, would give me absolution.
Speaker 1 (02:51):
But now I don't have that tool anymore. It's stopped working.
Speaker 2 (02:55):
It stopped giving me absolution, it stopped giving me permission.
And that's why I'm here. But I don't know how
to do sober. So I need God's help to do sober.
I need to uncover. I need to peel the onion
and expose this God within. And I'm starting to feel
that we know in the fourth step, right, we see
(03:17):
the truth in the fourth step about ourselves. We see
where we were the problem, and then we start looking
at life from a different angle, and instead of being
the victim, we wonder where we could be helpful, right,
instead of why are they doing that to me? It's
I wonder why. I wonder what's going on in their
(03:37):
life it causes them to do that. I wonder if
there's anything I can do to help. And immediately, as
soon as we go down that road, the sunlight starts
to shine and I start to get some relief. I
start replacing the resentments and the anger with love and
patience and tolerance, and to fear the same thing.
Speaker 1 (03:55):
I'm afraid the past is going to repeat itself.
Speaker 2 (03:57):
I'm afraid of the future, and I'm afraid I'm not
going to get what I want now. And as soon
as I bring God into that equation and trust God
that everything is just going to be the way it's
supposed to be, Everything is going to work out in
the end, everything.
Speaker 1 (04:11):
Is going to work up. I start to more.
Speaker 2 (04:13):
Sunlight starts to sky and I start to get relief
from the fear. And even if it wasn't a relief
from the fear, the ability to walk through the fear,
the ability to walk I've shared with all you guys
many times.
Speaker 1 (04:26):
That's the fear is my thorn, you know. The fear
is what brings me to God. Most of the time.
I'm not show sure if I didn't have the fear
of speaking, that I.
Speaker 2 (04:34):
Wouldn't pray before I got here, you know. But because
of that fear, I'm forced. I'm driven to my knees
in the morning.
Speaker 1 (04:42):
I really am. You know, It's a necessity for me.
Speaker 2 (04:47):
So our next journey that we're going to talk about is,
you know, getting right. We're getting right with God, We're
getting right with ourselves. And now we're going to go
out and get right with the people, with the people
in our lives that we have harm. And since it's
is plugged in there, the tools have changed, because something
has to change for me to have any credibility with
the people that I'm going to attempt to make amends with.
(05:08):
The tools have changed, the demonstration of change, not just
the proclamation anymore. How many times have they heard, oh, changed,
I'm never gonna agree again, I've changed? How many times
have they heard that You've got to be some kind
of demonstration of change. And at this point in the
program at six and seven, by the way, I think
(05:30):
it peaks at six and seven and then I think
everything leads back there. Yeah, And I believe that's why
the two paragraphs are are adequate enough to describe six
and seven, because when we get to ten, that's why
we're going to be working on six and seven. Ten
and eleven is about working on six and seven is
about working on character defects. That's fock check inventory when
(05:53):
I fall short of those character defense And for me,
it's simple. It's just not easy, right, we talked about
it a week. It's just stop doing what you shouldn't
do and start doing what you should do, right, I
mean that simple. Instead of being dishonest, I'm not being honest.
Instead of being selfish, be unselfish. Instead of being inconsiderate,
be considerate. Instead of making decisions on fear, how about
(06:16):
trust God, we start to see things from a different lens.
It's just not that simple, because as soon as you
come up against one of those instinctual drives, as soon
as you threaten my reputation, as soon as you threaten
my pocketbook, as soon as you threaten my relationship, this
wall goes up and this survival mode takes over, and
(06:39):
I'm going to do anything I can to maintain my
integrity and to maintain my material possessions and to maintain
my relationship.
Speaker 1 (06:49):
And I wish that wasn't truth.
Speaker 2 (06:51):
And still today there's even this spiritual warfare that goes
on when it comes to money or reputation or roman
there's still this wall, this this this warfare.
Speaker 1 (07:05):
I share with you guys last week about it. Years ago.
Speaker 2 (07:08):
I did this a job with the range thing recently
more recently, right, I was backing out of my driving
my stepdaughter came down to visit. She parked a Cadillact
beside my truck. You know, my truck's a little high,
so I didn't see the Cadillac, and backing out of
the driveway, I sideswiped the whole car, right, So I
(07:29):
pulled back in the driveway and I open up the
garage and I go get a plunger, and now I'm
trying to I got a plunger on the boat, and
I'm trying to pop the dents out of the car. Right.
And then I figured, well, maybe if I get the
green paint from my truck off of the car, she
won't know I hit it, right, So I went and
(07:50):
I get some rubbing compound and I'm trying to get
I was tear to God.
Speaker 1 (07:53):
I mean, I'm.
Speaker 2 (07:55):
Like twenty years sober, you know, thinking if I get
out of here, it should think somebody did it in
a shopping center or something.
Speaker 1 (08:04):
Yeah, and I left.
Speaker 2 (08:07):
I was on my way to Alcohols of God to
speak on spiritual principles. And Vader and Yoda start going
at it. You know. Vader says at that they'll never know,
and Yoda's.
Speaker 1 (08:23):
Telling me, do the right thing. You must, you know,
how do you?
Speaker 2 (08:31):
How do you?
Speaker 1 (08:31):
How can I possibly live with that today?
Speaker 2 (08:34):
How can I possibly go to that meeting and speak
about principles when I just hit and ran a car?
Speaker 1 (08:42):
I can't. I can't live like that anymore.
Speaker 2 (08:45):
So I can't live like that.
Speaker 1 (08:47):
I made the phone call, called my wife, I just
hit your daughter's cark. Let me know how much I
owe you. Click. You know, that was it. It was
done over over in two seconds.
Speaker 2 (08:57):
Now.
Speaker 1 (08:57):
I could have done that in the driveway. But it's
just it's still it's still a struggle.
Speaker 2 (09:03):
It's still I love one of my favorite people in history,
my favorite people in history.
Speaker 3 (09:09):
And this is why I know God loves me and you,
because he loved Saul you know what I mean. He
loved Saul. Saul was a freaking terrorist, right, he was
a murderer. His job was to kill Christians.
Speaker 1 (09:26):
That was his job. Later becomes Paul and writes two
thirds of the Bible.
Speaker 2 (09:33):
And I think it's ironic that my favorite paragraph in
that Bigger Book is on Paige is Romans seven fourteen,
which brings back some memories. You know, you got to
be old to know that, Aurora.
Speaker 1 (09:48):
Baby.
Speaker 2 (09:50):
Yeah, what I should do I do not and what
I should not do I do. That's who I am
without God in my life, That's who I am. Without
that direction. I'm gonna take her. I'm gonna take what's
in it for me.
Speaker 1 (10:05):
How much is mine? What about me?
Speaker 2 (10:07):
You know?
Speaker 1 (10:07):
That's where I'm at. And I really have this desire
to have to be closer to God.
Speaker 2 (10:15):
And I know it's not about becoming perfect. It's just
about becoming closer, you know, it's about getting closer to God.
Speaker 1 (10:22):
I know I'm never going to reach perfection.
Speaker 2 (10:24):
One of my favorite paragraphs in the Big Book is
at the end of chapter five where he talks about
what if we fall short and the chosen idea and
stumble or are we going to drink, and it says
not always.
Speaker 1 (10:32):
Because we're gonna fall short. We're human.
Speaker 2 (10:35):
The human condition is broken, it's flawed, and we're gonna
fall short. I'm falling short less today than I used to.
I'm working towards perfection, knowing I'm not going to get there,
not where I want to be, but I'm surely not
where I was. But it's about working towards perfection. I've
(10:58):
come a long way or I want to be. I
remember I was listening to. One of my favorite people
in the world is his father, Kelly, who used to
be the what do you call them guys? The head
of our church, the victor pastor thank you well. That
escaped me, but he was the fastor of our church.
(11:21):
And I used to just because because one of my.
Speaker 1 (11:23):
Biggest fears in life is public speaking, you know, and
I do it a lot and it just never goes away.
Speaker 2 (11:28):
But I used to watch him when he would do
his sermons, and he was so connected. This guy had
no notes, no nothing. His eyes would roll back and
he would go into his talk and tears would be
rolling down his face and I would just look at him.
Speaker 1 (11:44):
And say, man, I want what he has.
Speaker 2 (11:46):
I want that this, the relationship he has with the
God of his understanding, is just off the charts. And
it was the I shared that at the meeting up
and Thursday night up in Boca, and it was the
first time in my life that I was frozen at
the podium and had nothing more to say, because if
I wanted what he has, I would do what he
(12:08):
does right, and I'm not willing to go to that
length to get what he has. See, he's no longer
in the relationship battle, he's no longer in the material battle.
He's no longer caring about what people think about him.
He's out of that fight. He's at peace with all that,
and he's just channeled. So am I willing to give
up what people said my prestige, my willing to give
(12:32):
up the material, my willing to give.
Speaker 1 (12:33):
Up sex to get what he has? Nope, no, I'm not.
Speaker 2 (12:41):
Not. And I just you know, when I said I
want what he has, that was a lot because I'm
not willing to do what he does.
Speaker 1 (12:50):
To get what he got. I see.
Speaker 2 (12:55):
Six and seven as steps one and two on character defects.
You know, I am powerless over alcohol, and nothing I
can do about it without God's help. I am powerless
over my defects of character, and there's nothing I can
do about them without God's help. I don't bring God's
one and two on character defense as far as I'm concerned,
(13:17):
I have to constantly. It's constant vigilance for me to
stay on that track, you know, in business, in relationships
and a lot of areas. And let me tell you something.
The road has narrowed too. It has narrowed what I
used to think was acceptable. Is it anymore? Well, it's
only a small amount of money. It's still stealing, right,
(13:39):
it's still stealing. It doesn't matter what the number is. Well,
it's just it's just a dishwasher kit. They'll never know that.
They know it's twenty bucks. Doesn't matter whether you steal
a car or five dollars. You get labeled to say it,
(14:00):
and it feels to say, but at some point that
becomes unacceptable.
Speaker 1 (14:05):
Just the smallest little thing.
Speaker 2 (14:07):
It's like I said the other day, but you know,
we always talk about the litter thing, right, Like you know,
I used to something that blow out of my truck
and home.
Speaker 1 (14:14):
Deep and say, yeah, they got people, they pay people
to pick that paper up.
Speaker 2 (14:18):
At some point that became unacceptable when I started chasing
freaking paper around the parking lot while.
Speaker 1 (14:23):
The wind's blowing it around.
Speaker 2 (14:26):
At some point getting the putting the cart back, Well,
they pay people to put the cart back, right, But
at some point I said, it's your job to put
the cart back. Put the freaking cart back. How long
is it going to take you to do that. That's
what God's telling me, That's what the voice is saying.
The voices pick up the litter, put the cart back,
(14:47):
don't steal that, don't omit The truth.
Speaker 1 (14:56):
Bishop arn says we are all haunted.
Speaker 2 (14:58):
By God, whether we like it or not. So true,
so true, the conscious, the soul, the part of you
that knows that it knows, that part you know, that
gut feeling. Nobody will know, but you will know. We
start to be accountable ourselves. It starts to become not
(15:19):
what they think about me, but what I think about
How do I feel about me? How do I feel
about my day today? And then we start that's ten
and eleven. We start working on the defects of character again.
How well did I do with those defects of character today?
How did that spot check inventory work out? I get it,
and I do an inventory every night just about I mean,
(15:41):
I rarely, miss rarely, and I look at my day.
Speaker 1 (15:45):
How'd you do with six and seven? That's really the.
Speaker 2 (15:47):
Question, really the question you heard anybody? Were you unloving?
Were you selfish? Were you fearful? Those kinds of questions.
Speaker 1 (16:01):
And that's how I stay current.
Speaker 2 (16:02):
That's how I stay in the sunlight, or when I
get out of the sunlight, I get back into sunlight.
I share with you, guys, my spiritual experience came in
step five. It was the first time in my life
that I was at peace without a substance in my body.
Speaker 1 (16:14):
And I want that. I want more of that. And
the only way I can keep that is to keep
working on those defects of character.
Speaker 2 (16:19):
Keep making the amends where I owe to the amends,
keeping ask God to change me six attitude of willingness
to change seven with humility as our guide, we ask
God's help and we go out from here.
Speaker 1 (16:35):
With humility. Humility my favorite definition.
Speaker 2 (16:37):
I think it's fifty six in the twelve and twelve
somewhere in there, a clear recognition of exactly who and
what I am. Boy, I have a clear recognition of
exactly who and what I am at step six and seven,
painfully aware.
Speaker 1 (16:56):
Painfully And now we go out from here.
Speaker 2 (17:00):
Now we go want from here sounds familiar when that
comes from a bigger book. Now I'll go out from here.
You guys, now you've got the answer. You guys got
the gift. Now go out from here and share it.
That's the cool thing that we get to do. The
seventh step prayers is just different wording for the third
(17:21):
step prayer. Only difference is that, amen? Why because in
step three nothing changed. We made a decision to change.
Nothing changed. In step seven the traveler has changed. I
have changed, amen, I have changed.
Speaker 1 (17:38):
It is done. Something has changed.
Speaker 2 (17:41):
It is done.
Speaker 1 (17:42):
Now I go out from there to do his bidding,
not my bidding, to who his bidding.
Speaker 2 (17:48):
And now maybe I'm more qualified now that I'm aware
of my defects of character. I'm more qualified when I
go in to make these amends in step nine, that
I can demonstrate a different behavior, that I can show
up different. And let me tell you, my guy, my
sponsor and guys that I work with. The first thing
we do immediately is okay, I want to know when
(18:08):
you're if you have kids. I want to know when
their birthdays is, if you have a man of time,
when's your mother's birthday? When's your father's birthday? If they're
still around, and we're gonna send them a card, because
they'll fall over. They'll fall over when you send them
a damn Christmas card or a birthday card or whatever card.
That's demonstration of change. Show up different. My mom was
(18:31):
glad to see me show up different. She was still
holding under her purse pretty tight.
Speaker 1 (18:36):
Well, I she She's like she saw some change.
Speaker 2 (18:44):
So we have some unfinished business. And I'm not going
to get to too much of it tonight, but we
have some unfinished business. Three dimensions right, spiritual, mental, physical dimensions,
three dimensions of life. Bill talks about a fourth dimension,
but what he's talking about is a world in the spirit.
That's what he's talking about, a new frontier. When we
(19:05):
get to step ten, now he's talking about something different.
But basically, I need to be right with God. I
need to be right with me, I need to be
right with you. I need to be right in all
three dimensions to find any kind of peace and to
maintain my relationship with God.
Speaker 1 (19:19):
It's funny.
Speaker 2 (19:20):
I don't know about you, guys, but as soon as
I do the wrong thing, I'm disconnected. As soon as
I do the wrong thing, I'm in my head and
I got to make it right quick. Conflict kills me.
I don't do conflict well. I don't handle conflict well.
Sober drunk not a problem. Sober I don't do it well.
(19:45):
Of fact, we were laughing about it earlier. I don't
do people well. Sober Booze was my social livermin Man
booz is what just made me feel okay being around people.
I walk into a room of one hundred, I'm alone
still to this day, and I'll sit by myself rather
than go sit at the table with a bunch of people. Odd,
(20:06):
but that's it, that's the deal. So I'm a step
eight bills just genius. The way he does this, you know,
this get ready step. You know we talked about him
adding a couple of steps. You know, he was working
with the tenants city. There's twenty eight tenants. He pulled
(20:27):
like six of them out of there.
Speaker 1 (20:29):
You know.
Speaker 2 (20:29):
It was surrender, inventory, confession, restitution, helpfulness to others, and
believe in the dependence upon God. And then he gets
one and two from William James facing an insurmountable obstacle
and step two appealing to a deity for a solution,
and then he puts get ready step step eight. Then
(20:50):
he puts a spot check inventory in step ten and
adds six and seven, and there we got twelve steps.
Speaker 1 (20:58):
Right. Eight, It is critical And they use the word
all twice.
Speaker 2 (21:05):
Right.
Speaker 1 (21:05):
Bill doesn't repeat themselves much.
Speaker 2 (21:07):
Right, but made the list of all the people we
have harm and be willing to make amends to them all.
Speaker 1 (21:14):
Doesn't say we're going to.
Speaker 2 (21:15):
And that's why I tell my guys, forget about nine
right now, forget about nine.
Speaker 1 (21:19):
We're gonna do an eight step list.
Speaker 2 (21:21):
Everybody you have harm, everybody, every institution, every principle, every person,
principal or institution.
Speaker 1 (21:30):
I want on that list who did I hurt?
Speaker 2 (21:34):
The book says we made it well, we took inventory. Well,
there's a lot of those names obviously on our relationship inventory.
All those names are people we harm. There's certain people
on our resentment inventory and our fear inventory that didn't.
Speaker 1 (21:46):
Show up on our harms list.
Speaker 2 (21:48):
They go on that list.
Speaker 1 (21:51):
And we become willing.
Speaker 2 (21:52):
It doesn't mean we're going to because you know, in
step nine there's this caveat about causing more damage. We're
not to call it for but I need to be
willing to do it. I need to be honest to
the list. I need to be willing to the list.
Speaker 1 (22:08):
The list is.
Speaker 2 (22:09):
Important because even though I'm not going to maybe possibly
make a direct amends to somebody, I may make an
indirect amends where we're going to do something to get
right with the universe, could get right with God.
Speaker 1 (22:22):
Whatever you think that is.
Speaker 2 (22:26):
The universe, spirit, intelligent, creative intelligence energy. All I know
is is not something I'm more powerful then. It is
something intangible. But that's been proven to me. I really
can't prove that to you. You have to take a leap.
You have to be willing to believe. You have to say, yeah,
maybe this could work for me too. That's all That's
(22:48):
all it takes is a maybe, you know, maybe this
will work. Why would you do that because you're desperate
and if.
Speaker 1 (22:54):
You're not, you won't. You won't.
Speaker 2 (22:56):
But the list is I became willing to make amends
to them and what we've done, and I'd do something different.
Speaker 1 (23:04):
We actually created a form and it was who did
I hurt? What did I do? What was the harm?
That's different. That's different.
Speaker 2 (23:17):
Because what I did to hurt them isn't how I
harmed them. Especially when I look at my.
Speaker 1 (23:22):
Mother, what did you do? I stole her money? That's
not what she wants an apology for what was the harm?
Speaker 2 (23:34):
And my mother couldn't pay her bills because Ninja pat
would crawl into her bedroom after she worked all freaking
night long as a waitress trying to support four kids.
The ninja crawled into her bedroom and stole her tip
money out of her purse, couldn't pay her bills, couldn't
(23:56):
leave her personally and around when her son was there
to hide her jewelry. How about how many nights I
kept her up wondering whether I was dead or a lot.
I remember when I got arrested for that alleged Westling charge,
(24:17):
this trafficking thing. My uncle said, I'll go down and
get him, and my mother said, no, I need a
good night's sleep. Yeah, leave him there for a while.
I know where he is, I know he's okay, Let
me get some rest. My poor mother.
Speaker 1 (24:38):
Three of us, three out of the four, caught the bullet.
You know, there's me.
Speaker 2 (24:43):
My sister's two years less sober than me skip my
brother for some reason, and my baby sister died.
Speaker 1 (24:48):
Of an overdose eighteen years ago. My mother went through
it with three of us. And that is what is
my plan for the MS, and we write it out,
we have box. Is this something I can do now
later or can't not?
Speaker 2 (25:04):
Won't. We're gonna be willing to make it, but at
this time, maybe I can't. Maybe I don't know where
they are, Maybe it would do more harm than good.
Maybe they don't want to see me. There's a few
of them, and we get clear on the list, and
I'm gonna tell you two quick stories and then we'll
(25:25):
talk about step nine next week.
Speaker 1 (25:27):
So there's a guy named Frank Bunkman.
Speaker 2 (25:32):
And he has this He opens up this hospital wealthy
guy's parents' money, opens up this hospice for a young
man and homeless people and who are troubled and need
help and psychiatric help. And he opens this not for
profit business. He brings on some partners. The partners vote
him out and decide to make it a for profit.
Speaker 1 (25:55):
And he is pissed. He has got a.
Speaker 2 (25:57):
Resentment and he cannot let go and it's eating him
a lot, and he decides to go to Keswick Convention
in canber England. And see this Baptist preacher is f B. Meyer,
guy who's like the Jimmy Swagger of that day. You
(26:19):
know who's the big guy? Now, what's his name?
Speaker 1 (26:25):
Joel?
Speaker 2 (26:25):
Yes, you'd be like Joel. He'll be like going to
see Joel's Dean. Right, he's using his mother and parents
dying to go to England. And he's watching all of
these people go into this room, right, and he's wondering
where they're going. There's some kind of social event going
in there, and he decides to join them all. And
there's a woman named a Jesse Penn lewis to in
a talk and the talk is on forgiveness. Forgive everybody
(26:53):
everything is what he got out of that. Give everybody everything.
Speaker 1 (26:56):
I just love that long. If you want to be free,
forgive everybody everything.
Speaker 2 (27:05):
It's like confession frees the confessor, forgiveness freeze the forgiver,
right or wlong, it doesn't matter, doesn't matter it. Actually,
when I had heard that, it made me look at
my father differently. It made me look at him as
passively a sick alcoholic as I am, and allowed me
(27:26):
to look at him with forgiveness rather than a resentment,
because on my poor step I had him on it.
But I have anything in that call for.
Speaker 1 (27:37):
Forgive everybody everything. Well, why is that significant?
Speaker 2 (27:39):
Because this guy leads there on fire, makes amends to
all his partners, tell him do what you want with it.
Speaker 1 (27:46):
I'm over it, and he starts the.
Speaker 2 (27:48):
First century Christian movement which becomes the Oxcer Groups gets
nicknamed the Oxcar Groups. Later it was more world rearmament,
and then later it was the initials for change. So
why is that significant? Well? Does this guy rowing hazard
who goes to Suzoric, Switzerland to see Sigmund Freud, and
(28:10):
Sigmunt Freud is not available, and he sees Carl Young
a right, and he spends however much time he spends
with Carl Young and he leaves here.
Speaker 1 (28:23):
What's he say?
Speaker 2 (28:24):
I have such knowledge of the inner workings of my
mind that it would be unthinkable for me to pick
up a drink. And he stops at Paris before he
gets on the ship to come back to the States,
and his friend asks him the wrong question, would you
like a drink? And he's drunk again, and he's back
(28:44):
to Young and he don't figure, can't figure out, and
Young says this, I misdiagnosed you.
Speaker 1 (28:50):
I thought you had mental issues. It's way worse.
Speaker 2 (28:55):
You're an alcoholic and I've never seen anybody recover as
bad as you. That is me.
Speaker 1 (29:02):
Is there no hope?
Speaker 2 (29:03):
Yeah? Here and there once in a while seeing these
people have these spiritual experiences, ideas, emotions, and attitudes that
were once the guiding force of their lives, completely replaced
by whole news concepts, a whole new set of concepts. Right,
and he says, great, I'll go back to church. I've
been going to church, my mother and father involved in
(29:24):
the church. I was just about He said, that's not
enough for you.
Speaker 1 (29:26):
How'd he know that?
Speaker 2 (29:28):
Well, because he's there. How do I know what you
were doing before you got here wasn't enough because you're here.
Because if that was enough, you'd be there.
Speaker 1 (29:38):
And he said, you need more than that. You need
to do something different. So what's he do?
Speaker 2 (29:42):
He hooks up with Frank Pupman, the largest Christian movement
of the dime. Frank Pupman takes him on, sends him
to New York City was Sam Shoemaker and Sam Shoemaker
and Roland start the Calvary Mission in New York City.
Speaker 1 (29:59):
Why is that? Because Ebbie Thatcher.
Speaker 2 (30:02):
Gets cord ordered probably our first ever court ordered alcoholic.
When he gets court ordered to halfway to the Calvary Mission.
Why is that significant? Because while he's there through two
way prayer, Bill Wilson comes on his heart, his old
drinking buddy, and he asks about Bill, what's he doing?
(30:23):
And Shoemaker tells him Bill is dying from alcoholism. And
Ebbie Thatcher carries the message of the Oxford groups.
Speaker 1 (30:32):
He carries the solution and.
Speaker 2 (30:34):
The program of action to bring about that solution to
Bill Wilson. Bill Wilson already knew the problem, He'd already
been in town's hospital. Why then, I think it was
three times, But he didn't have a solution to it.
He knew what the problem was, but he didn't have
a solution. Ebbie brings him the solution seconds and inches right.
That is the difference between us being here and.
Speaker 1 (30:54):
Not being here.
Speaker 2 (30:56):
If he sees Freud, we're not here. If Young doesn't
tell him to go find a big movement, he's not here.
Speaker 1 (31:02):
We're not here.
Speaker 2 (31:02):
If ever, he doesn't get court order to the Calvary Mission,
we're not here. Bill Wilson's probably dead. Forgive everybody everything.
Thanks for letting me be on
Absolutely. So we were.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Talking about six and seven last week. I didn't I
didn't really finish the talk. But you know, these are
the two steps that Bill added when he wrote the
twelve steps, when he was writing the Big Book, you know,
the tools of change, you know. And I believe that
everything leads to these two steps, and then everything.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
Leads back to these two steps.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
And I'm a believer that the reason that it's short,
it's you know, six six lines and seven lines in
the in the twelve and twelve is because we're painfully
aware of our defects of character. By now right, I mean,
we admitted the powerlessness. We admitted that no human power
was going to solve the problem. We made a decision
to seek that power. And then it was about taking
a look in the mirror and seeing what is blocking
(00:47):
me from that power, what is putting me in conflict?
What's the conflict between me and that power greater than myself?
And for lack of a better term, God, right, and
whatever you think that is, that's what I'm talking about.
Whatever you think think that is, that's what I'm talking about.
Speaker 1 (01:01):
That's the cool thing about AA.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
We get to define God for ourselves, you know, and
that may change by the way it's changed for me
a few times down the road.
Speaker 1 (01:10):
But you know, whatever you think that is.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
And even if you're not a believer, we have the
choice of dying an alcoholic addict death or accept spiritual health.
Go on to the bitter end, blocking out and your
intolerable situation, or accept spiritual health. I mean, that's the
two choices that I faced when I got here.
Speaker 1 (01:28):
I don't know about you, you know, And.
Speaker 2 (01:30):
Like I said, I was desperate, so you couldn't scare
me out with any of those talk, you know. But
this is about connecting to a power that's going to
solve my problem. This whole this whole program is about
connection to that power that will solve my problem.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
Meaning there's nothing I can do about my problem that
God will solve the problem. We get to Step ten.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
That's what it said that He has solved the problem,
and that's what we've been trying to do. What's blocking
me from the sunlight of the spirit, what's blocking me
from the God within that is going to solve my problem?
And we talked about the step three. It's behavioral, wasn't it.
They talked about it's my behavior is my misuse of
the God given good.
Speaker 1 (02:14):
Instincts that make up self. Will, these God given.
Speaker 2 (02:18):
Instincts that are necessary for my survival, therefore good that
I have perverted for pleasure and has put me in
conflict with you, God or myself. And the only cure
I had for that conflict was a drink. That was
the only thing that would. Garrett used to say it
all the time, would give me permission, and then absolution, right,
(02:40):
give permission to do whatever I want for pleasure, no
matter who was affected, no matter who was hurt. And
then later when the guilt and the remorsement set in,
the booze, would give me absolution.
Speaker 1 (02:51):
But now I don't have that tool anymore. It's stopped working.
Speaker 2 (02:55):
It stopped giving me absolution, it stopped giving me permission.
And that's why I'm here. But I don't know how
to do sober. So I need God's help to do sober.
I need to uncover. I need to peel the onion
and expose this God within. And I'm starting to feel
that we know in the fourth step, right, we see
(03:17):
the truth in the fourth step about ourselves. We see
where we were the problem, and then we start looking
at life from a different angle, and instead of being
the victim, we wonder where we could be helpful, right,
instead of why are they doing that to me? It's
I wonder why. I wonder what's going on in their
(03:37):
life it causes them to do that. I wonder if
there's anything I can do to help. And immediately, as
soon as we go down that road, the sunlight starts
to shine and I start to get some relief. I
start replacing the resentments and the anger with love and
patience and tolerance, and to fear the same thing.
Speaker 1 (03:55):
I'm afraid the past is going to repeat itself.
Speaker 2 (03:57):
I'm afraid of the future, and I'm afraid I'm not
going to get what I want now. And as soon
as I bring God into that equation and trust God
that everything is just going to be the way it's
supposed to be, Everything is going to work out in
the end, everything.
Speaker 1 (04:11):
Is going to work up. I start to more.
Speaker 2 (04:13):
Sunlight starts to sky and I start to get relief
from the fear. And even if it wasn't a relief
from the fear, the ability to walk through the fear,
the ability to walk I've shared with all you guys
many times.
Speaker 1 (04:26):
That's the fear is my thorn, you know. The fear
is what brings me to God. Most of the time.
I'm not show sure if I didn't have the fear
of speaking, that I.
Speaker 2 (04:34):
Wouldn't pray before I got here, you know. But because
of that fear, I'm forced. I'm driven to my knees
in the morning.
Speaker 1 (04:42):
I really am. You know, It's a necessity for me.
Speaker 2 (04:47):
So our next journey that we're going to talk about is,
you know, getting right. We're getting right with God, We're
getting right with ourselves. And now we're going to go
out and get right with the people, with the people
in our lives that we have harm. And since it's
is plugged in there, the tools have changed, because something
has to change for me to have any credibility with
the people that I'm going to attempt to make amends with.
(05:08):
The tools have changed, the demonstration of change, not just
the proclamation anymore. How many times have they heard, oh, changed,
I'm never gonna agree again, I've changed? How many times
have they heard that You've got to be some kind
of demonstration of change. And at this point in the
program at six and seven, by the way, I think
(05:30):
it peaks at six and seven and then I think
everything leads back there. Yeah, And I believe that's why
the two paragraphs are are adequate enough to describe six
and seven, because when we get to ten, that's why
we're going to be working on six and seven. Ten
and eleven is about working on six and seven is
about working on character defects. That's fock check inventory when
(05:53):
I fall short of those character defense And for me,
it's simple. It's just not easy, right, we talked about
it a week. It's just stop doing what you shouldn't
do and start doing what you should do, right, I
mean that simple. Instead of being dishonest, I'm not being honest.
Instead of being selfish, be unselfish. Instead of being inconsiderate,
be considerate. Instead of making decisions on fear, how about
(06:16):
trust God, we start to see things from a different lens.
It's just not that simple, because as soon as you
come up against one of those instinctual drives, as soon
as you threaten my reputation, as soon as you threaten
my pocketbook, as soon as you threaten my relationship, this
wall goes up and this survival mode takes over, and
(06:39):
I'm going to do anything I can to maintain my
integrity and to maintain my material possessions and to maintain
my relationship.
Speaker 1 (06:49):
And I wish that wasn't truth.
Speaker 2 (06:51):
And still today there's even this spiritual warfare that goes
on when it comes to money or reputation or roman
there's still this wall, this this this warfare.
Speaker 1 (07:05):
I share with you guys last week about it. Years ago.
Speaker 2 (07:08):
I did this a job with the range thing recently
more recently, right, I was backing out of my driving
my stepdaughter came down to visit. She parked a Cadillact
beside my truck. You know, my truck's a little high,
so I didn't see the Cadillac, and backing out of
the driveway, I sideswiped the whole car, right, So I
(07:29):
pulled back in the driveway and I open up the
garage and I go get a plunger, and now I'm
trying to I got a plunger on the boat, and
I'm trying to pop the dents out of the car. Right.
And then I figured, well, maybe if I get the
green paint from my truck off of the car, she
won't know I hit it, right, So I went and
(07:50):
I get some rubbing compound and I'm trying to get
I was tear to God.
Speaker 1 (07:53):
I mean, I'm.
Speaker 2 (07:55):
Like twenty years sober, you know, thinking if I get
out of here, it should think somebody did it in
a shopping center or something.
Speaker 1 (08:04):
Yeah, and I left.
Speaker 2 (08:07):
I was on my way to Alcohols of God to
speak on spiritual principles. And Vader and Yoda start going
at it. You know. Vader says at that they'll never know,
and Yoda's.
Speaker 1 (08:23):
Telling me, do the right thing. You must, you know,
how do you?
Speaker 2 (08:31):
How do you?
Speaker 1 (08:31):
How can I possibly live with that today?
Speaker 2 (08:34):
How can I possibly go to that meeting and speak
about principles when I just hit and ran a car?
Speaker 1 (08:42):
I can't. I can't live like that anymore.
Speaker 2 (08:45):
So I can't live like that.
Speaker 1 (08:47):
I made the phone call, called my wife, I just
hit your daughter's cark. Let me know how much I
owe you. Click. You know, that was it. It was
done over over in two seconds.
Speaker 2 (08:57):
Now.
Speaker 1 (08:57):
I could have done that in the driveway. But it's
just it's still it's still a struggle.
Speaker 2 (09:03):
It's still I love one of my favorite people in history,
my favorite people in history.
Speaker 3 (09:09):
And this is why I know God loves me and you,
because he loved Saul you know what I mean. He
loved Saul. Saul was a freaking terrorist, right, he was
a murderer. His job was to kill Christians.
Speaker 1 (09:26):
That was his job. Later becomes Paul and writes two
thirds of the Bible.
Speaker 2 (09:33):
And I think it's ironic that my favorite paragraph in
that Bigger Book is on Paige is Romans seven fourteen,
which brings back some memories. You know, you got to
be old to know that, Aurora.
Speaker 1 (09:48):
Baby.
Speaker 2 (09:50):
Yeah, what I should do I do not and what
I should not do I do. That's who I am
without God in my life, That's who I am. Without
that direction. I'm gonna take her. I'm gonna take what's
in it for me.
Speaker 1 (10:05):
How much is mine? What about me?
Speaker 2 (10:07):
You know?
Speaker 1 (10:07):
That's where I'm at. And I really have this desire
to have to be closer to God.
Speaker 2 (10:15):
And I know it's not about becoming perfect. It's just
about becoming closer, you know, it's about getting closer to God.
Speaker 1 (10:22):
I know I'm never going to reach perfection.
Speaker 2 (10:24):
One of my favorite paragraphs in the Big Book is
at the end of chapter five where he talks about
what if we fall short and the chosen idea and
stumble or are we going to drink, and it says
not always.
Speaker 1 (10:32):
Because we're gonna fall short. We're human.
Speaker 2 (10:35):
The human condition is broken, it's flawed, and we're gonna
fall short. I'm falling short less today than I used to.
I'm working towards perfection, knowing I'm not going to get there,
not where I want to be, but I'm surely not
where I was. But it's about working towards perfection. I've
(10:58):
come a long way or I want to be. I
remember I was listening to. One of my favorite people
in the world is his father, Kelly, who used to
be the what do you call them guys? The head
of our church, the victor pastor thank you well. That
escaped me, but he was the fastor of our church.
(11:21):
And I used to just because because one of my.
Speaker 1 (11:23):
Biggest fears in life is public speaking, you know, and
I do it a lot and it just never goes away.
Speaker 2 (11:28):
But I used to watch him when he would do
his sermons, and he was so connected. This guy had
no notes, no nothing. His eyes would roll back and
he would go into his talk and tears would be
rolling down his face and I would just look at him.
Speaker 1 (11:44):
And say, man, I want what he has.
Speaker 2 (11:46):
I want that this, the relationship he has with the
God of his understanding, is just off the charts. And
it was the I shared that at the meeting up
and Thursday night up in Boca, and it was the
first time in my life that I was frozen at
the podium and had nothing more to say, because if
I wanted what he has, I would do what he
(12:08):
does right, and I'm not willing to go to that
length to get what he has. See, he's no longer
in the relationship battle, he's no longer in the material battle.
He's no longer caring about what people think about him.
He's out of that fight. He's at peace with all that,
and he's just channeled. So am I willing to give
up what people said my prestige, my willing to give
(12:32):
up the material, my willing to give.
Speaker 1 (12:33):
Up sex to get what he has? Nope, no, I'm not.
Speaker 2 (12:41):
Not. And I just you know, when I said I
want what he has, that was a lot because I'm
not willing to do what he does.
Speaker 1 (12:50):
To get what he got. I see.
Speaker 2 (12:55):
Six and seven as steps one and two on character defects.
You know, I am powerless over alcohol, and nothing I
can do about it without God's help. I am powerless
over my defects of character, and there's nothing I can
do about them without God's help. I don't bring God's
one and two on character defense as far as I'm concerned,
(13:17):
I have to constantly. It's constant vigilance for me to
stay on that track, you know, in business, in relationships
and a lot of areas. And let me tell you something.
The road has narrowed too. It has narrowed what I
used to think was acceptable. Is it anymore? Well, it's
only a small amount of money. It's still stealing, right,
(13:39):
it's still stealing. It doesn't matter what the number is. Well,
it's just it's just a dishwasher kit. They'll never know that.
They know it's twenty bucks. Doesn't matter whether you steal
a car or five dollars. You get labeled to say it,
(14:00):
and it feels to say, but at some point that
becomes unacceptable.
Speaker 1 (14:05):
Just the smallest little thing.
Speaker 2 (14:07):
It's like I said the other day, but you know,
we always talk about the litter thing, right, Like you know,
I used to something that blow out of my truck
and home.
Speaker 1 (14:14):
Deep and say, yeah, they got people, they pay people
to pick that paper up.
Speaker 2 (14:18):
At some point that became unacceptable when I started chasing
freaking paper around the parking lot while.
Speaker 1 (14:23):
The wind's blowing it around.
Speaker 2 (14:26):
At some point getting the putting the cart back, Well,
they pay people to put the cart back, right, But
at some point I said, it's your job to put
the cart back. Put the freaking cart back. How long
is it going to take you to do that. That's
what God's telling me, That's what the voice is saying.
The voices pick up the litter, put the cart back,
(14:47):
don't steal that, don't omit The truth.
Speaker 1 (14:56):
Bishop arn says we are all haunted.
Speaker 2 (14:58):
By God, whether we like it or not. So true,
so true, the conscious, the soul, the part of you
that knows that it knows, that part you know, that
gut feeling. Nobody will know, but you will know. We
start to be accountable ourselves. It starts to become not
(15:19):
what they think about me, but what I think about
How do I feel about me? How do I feel
about my day today? And then we start that's ten
and eleven. We start working on the defects of character again.
How well did I do with those defects of character today?
How did that spot check inventory work out? I get it,
and I do an inventory every night just about I mean,
(15:41):
I rarely, miss rarely, and I look at my day.
Speaker 1 (15:45):
How'd you do with six and seven? That's really the.
Speaker 2 (15:47):
Question, really the question you heard anybody? Were you unloving?
Were you selfish? Were you fearful? Those kinds of questions.
Speaker 1 (16:01):
And that's how I stay current.
Speaker 2 (16:02):
That's how I stay in the sunlight, or when I
get out of the sunlight, I get back into sunlight.
I share with you, guys, my spiritual experience came in
step five. It was the first time in my life
that I was at peace without a substance in my body.
Speaker 1 (16:14):
And I want that. I want more of that. And
the only way I can keep that is to keep
working on those defects of character.
Speaker 2 (16:19):
Keep making the amends where I owe to the amends,
keeping ask God to change me six attitude of willingness
to change seven with humility as our guide, we ask
God's help and we go out from here.
Speaker 1 (16:35):
With humility. Humility my favorite definition.
Speaker 2 (16:37):
I think it's fifty six in the twelve and twelve
somewhere in there, a clear recognition of exactly who and
what I am. Boy, I have a clear recognition of
exactly who and what I am at step six and seven,
painfully aware.
Speaker 1 (16:56):
Painfully And now we go out from here.
Speaker 2 (17:00):
Now we go want from here sounds familiar when that
comes from a bigger book. Now I'll go out from here.
You guys, now you've got the answer. You guys got
the gift. Now go out from here and share it.
That's the cool thing that we get to do. The
seventh step prayers is just different wording for the third
(17:21):
step prayer. Only difference is that, amen? Why because in
step three nothing changed. We made a decision to change.
Nothing changed. In step seven the traveler has changed. I
have changed, amen, I have changed.
Speaker 1 (17:38):
It is done. Something has changed.
Speaker 2 (17:41):
It is done.
Speaker 1 (17:42):
Now I go out from there to do his bidding,
not my bidding, to who his bidding.
Speaker 2 (17:48):
And now maybe I'm more qualified now that I'm aware
of my defects of character. I'm more qualified when I
go in to make these amends in step nine, that
I can demonstrate a different behavior, that I can show
up different. And let me tell you, my guy, my
sponsor and guys that I work with. The first thing
we do immediately is okay, I want to know when
(18:08):
you're if you have kids. I want to know when
their birthdays is, if you have a man of time,
when's your mother's birthday? When's your father's birthday? If they're
still around, and we're gonna send them a card, because
they'll fall over. They'll fall over when you send them
a damn Christmas card or a birthday card or whatever card.
That's demonstration of change. Show up different. My mom was
(18:31):
glad to see me show up different. She was still
holding under her purse pretty tight.
Speaker 1 (18:36):
Well, I she She's like she saw some change.
Speaker 2 (18:44):
So we have some unfinished business. And I'm not going
to get to too much of it tonight, but we
have some unfinished business. Three dimensions right, spiritual, mental, physical dimensions,
three dimensions of life. Bill talks about a fourth dimension,
but what he's talking about is a world in the spirit.
That's what he's talking about, a new frontier. When we
(19:05):
get to step ten, now he's talking about something different.
But basically, I need to be right with God. I
need to be right with me, I need to be
right with you. I need to be right in all
three dimensions to find any kind of peace and to
maintain my relationship with God.
Speaker 1 (19:19):
It's funny.
Speaker 2 (19:20):
I don't know about you, guys, but as soon as
I do the wrong thing, I'm disconnected. As soon as
I do the wrong thing, I'm in my head and
I got to make it right quick. Conflict kills me.
I don't do conflict well. I don't handle conflict well.
Sober drunk not a problem. Sober I don't do it well.
(19:45):
Of fact, we were laughing about it earlier. I don't
do people well. Sober Booze was my social livermin Man
booz is what just made me feel okay being around people.
I walk into a room of one hundred, I'm alone
still to this day, and I'll sit by myself rather
than go sit at the table with a bunch of people. Odd,
(20:06):
but that's it, that's the deal. So I'm a step
eight bills just genius. The way he does this, you know,
this get ready step. You know we talked about him
adding a couple of steps. You know, he was working
with the tenants city. There's twenty eight tenants. He pulled
(20:27):
like six of them out of there.
Speaker 1 (20:29):
You know.
Speaker 2 (20:29):
It was surrender, inventory, confession, restitution, helpfulness to others, and
believe in the dependence upon God. And then he gets
one and two from William James facing an insurmountable obstacle
and step two appealing to a deity for a solution,
and then he puts get ready step step eight. Then
(20:50):
he puts a spot check inventory in step ten and
adds six and seven, and there we got twelve steps.
Speaker 1 (20:58):
Right. Eight, It is critical And they use the word
all twice.
Speaker 2 (21:05):
Right.
Speaker 1 (21:05):
Bill doesn't repeat themselves much.
Speaker 2 (21:07):
Right, but made the list of all the people we
have harm and be willing to make amends to them all.
Speaker 1 (21:14):
Doesn't say we're going to.
Speaker 2 (21:15):
And that's why I tell my guys, forget about nine
right now, forget about nine.
Speaker 1 (21:19):
We're gonna do an eight step list.
Speaker 2 (21:21):
Everybody you have harm, everybody, every institution, every principle, every person,
principal or institution.
Speaker 1 (21:30):
I want on that list who did I hurt?
Speaker 2 (21:34):
The book says we made it well, we took inventory. Well,
there's a lot of those names obviously on our relationship inventory.
All those names are people we harm. There's certain people
on our resentment inventory and our fear inventory that didn't.
Speaker 1 (21:46):
Show up on our harms list.
Speaker 2 (21:48):
They go on that list.
Speaker 1 (21:51):
And we become willing.
Speaker 2 (21:52):
It doesn't mean we're going to because you know, in
step nine there's this caveat about causing more damage. We're
not to call it for but I need to be
willing to do it. I need to be honest to
the list. I need to be willing to the list.
Speaker 1 (22:08):
The list is.
Speaker 2 (22:09):
Important because even though I'm not going to maybe possibly
make a direct amends to somebody, I may make an
indirect amends where we're going to do something to get
right with the universe, could get right with God.
Speaker 1 (22:22):
Whatever you think that is.
Speaker 2 (22:26):
The universe, spirit, intelligent, creative intelligence energy. All I know
is is not something I'm more powerful then. It is
something intangible. But that's been proven to me. I really
can't prove that to you. You have to take a leap.
You have to be willing to believe. You have to say, yeah,
maybe this could work for me too. That's all That's
(22:48):
all it takes is a maybe, you know, maybe this
will work. Why would you do that because you're desperate
and if.
Speaker 1 (22:54):
You're not, you won't. You won't.
Speaker 2 (22:56):
But the list is I became willing to make amends
to them and what we've done, and I'd do something different.
Speaker 1 (23:04):
We actually created a form and it was who did
I hurt? What did I do? What was the harm?
That's different. That's different.
Speaker 2 (23:17):
Because what I did to hurt them isn't how I
harmed them. Especially when I look at my.
Speaker 1 (23:22):
Mother, what did you do? I stole her money? That's
not what she wants an apology for what was the harm?
Speaker 2 (23:34):
And my mother couldn't pay her bills because Ninja pat
would crawl into her bedroom after she worked all freaking
night long as a waitress trying to support four kids.
The ninja crawled into her bedroom and stole her tip
money out of her purse, couldn't pay her bills, couldn't
(23:56):
leave her personally and around when her son was there
to hide her jewelry. How about how many nights I
kept her up wondering whether I was dead or a lot.
I remember when I got arrested for that alleged Westling charge,
(24:17):
this trafficking thing. My uncle said, I'll go down and
get him, and my mother said, no, I need a
good night's sleep. Yeah, leave him there for a while.
I know where he is, I know he's okay, Let
me get some rest. My poor mother.
Speaker 1 (24:38):
Three of us, three out of the four, caught the bullet.
You know, there's me.
Speaker 2 (24:43):
My sister's two years less sober than me skip my
brother for some reason, and my baby sister died.
Speaker 1 (24:48):
Of an overdose eighteen years ago. My mother went through
it with three of us. And that is what is
my plan for the MS, and we write it out,
we have box. Is this something I can do now
later or can't not?
Speaker 2 (25:04):
Won't. We're gonna be willing to make it, but at
this time, maybe I can't. Maybe I don't know where
they are, Maybe it would do more harm than good.
Maybe they don't want to see me. There's a few
of them, and we get clear on the list, and
I'm gonna tell you two quick stories and then we'll
(25:25):
talk about step nine next week.
Speaker 1 (25:27):
So there's a guy named Frank Bunkman.
Speaker 2 (25:32):
And he has this He opens up this hospital wealthy
guy's parents' money, opens up this hospice for a young
man and homeless people and who are troubled and need
help and psychiatric help. And he opens this not for
profit business. He brings on some partners. The partners vote
him out and decide to make it a for profit.
Speaker 1 (25:55):
And he is pissed. He has got a.
Speaker 2 (25:57):
Resentment and he cannot let go and it's eating him
a lot, and he decides to go to Keswick Convention
in canber England. And see this Baptist preacher is f B. Meyer,
guy who's like the Jimmy Swagger of that day. You
(26:19):
know who's the big guy? Now, what's his name?
Speaker 1 (26:25):
Joel?
Speaker 2 (26:25):
Yes, you'd be like Joel. He'll be like going to
see Joel's Dean. Right, he's using his mother and parents
dying to go to England. And he's watching all of
these people go into this room, right, and he's wondering
where they're going. There's some kind of social event going
in there, and he decides to join them all. And
there's a woman named a Jesse Penn lewis to in
a talk and the talk is on forgiveness. Forgive everybody
(26:53):
everything is what he got out of that. Give everybody everything.
Speaker 1 (26:56):
I just love that long. If you want to be free,
forgive everybody everything.
Speaker 2 (27:05):
It's like confession frees the confessor, forgiveness freeze the forgiver,
right or wlong, it doesn't matter, doesn't matter it. Actually,
when I had heard that, it made me look at
my father differently. It made me look at him as
passively a sick alcoholic as I am, and allowed me
(27:26):
to look at him with forgiveness rather than a resentment,
because on my poor step I had him on it.
But I have anything in that call for.
Speaker 1 (27:37):
Forgive everybody everything. Well, why is that significant?
Speaker 2 (27:39):
Because this guy leads there on fire, makes amends to
all his partners, tell him do what you want with it.
Speaker 1 (27:46):
I'm over it, and he starts the.
Speaker 2 (27:48):
First century Christian movement which becomes the Oxcer Groups gets
nicknamed the Oxcar Groups. Later it was more world rearmament,
and then later it was the initials for change. So
why is that significant? Well? Does this guy rowing hazard
who goes to Suzoric, Switzerland to see Sigmund Freud, and
(28:10):
Sigmunt Freud is not available, and he sees Carl Young
a right, and he spends however much time he spends
with Carl Young and he leaves here.
Speaker 1 (28:23):
What's he say?
Speaker 2 (28:24):
I have such knowledge of the inner workings of my
mind that it would be unthinkable for me to pick
up a drink. And he stops at Paris before he
gets on the ship to come back to the States,
and his friend asks him the wrong question, would you
like a drink? And he's drunk again, and he's back
(28:44):
to Young and he don't figure, can't figure out, and
Young says this, I misdiagnosed you.
Speaker 1 (28:50):
I thought you had mental issues. It's way worse.
Speaker 2 (28:55):
You're an alcoholic and I've never seen anybody recover as
bad as you. That is me.
Speaker 1 (29:02):
Is there no hope?
Speaker 2 (29:03):
Yeah? Here and there once in a while seeing these
people have these spiritual experiences, ideas, emotions, and attitudes that
were once the guiding force of their lives, completely replaced
by whole news concepts, a whole new set of concepts. Right,
and he says, great, I'll go back to church. I've
been going to church, my mother and father involved in
(29:24):
the church. I was just about He said, that's not
enough for you.
Speaker 1 (29:26):
How'd he know that?
Speaker 2 (29:28):
Well, because he's there. How do I know what you
were doing before you got here wasn't enough because you're here.
Because if that was enough, you'd be there.
Speaker 1 (29:38):
And he said, you need more than that. You need
to do something different. So what's he do?
Speaker 2 (29:42):
He hooks up with Frank Pupman, the largest Christian movement
of the dime. Frank Pupman takes him on, sends him
to New York City was Sam Shoemaker and Sam Shoemaker
and Roland start the Calvary Mission in New York City.
Speaker 1 (29:59):
Why is that? Because Ebbie Thatcher.
Speaker 2 (30:02):
Gets cord ordered probably our first ever court ordered alcoholic.
When he gets court ordered to halfway to the Calvary Mission.
Why is that significant? Because while he's there through two
way prayer, Bill Wilson comes on his heart, his old
drinking buddy, and he asks about Bill, what's he doing?
(30:23):
And Shoemaker tells him Bill is dying from alcoholism. And
Ebbie Thatcher carries the message of the Oxford groups.
Speaker 1 (30:32):
He carries the solution and.
Speaker 2 (30:34):
The program of action to bring about that solution to
Bill Wilson. Bill Wilson already knew the problem, He'd already
been in town's hospital. Why then, I think it was
three times, But he didn't have a solution to it.
He knew what the problem was, but he didn't have
a solution. Ebbie brings him the solution seconds and inches right.
That is the difference between us being here and.
Speaker 1 (30:54):
Not being here.
Speaker 2 (30:56):
If he sees Freud, we're not here. If Young doesn't
tell him to go find a big movement, he's not here.
Speaker 1 (31:02):
We're not here.
Speaker 2 (31:02):
If ever, he doesn't get court order to the Calvary Mission,
we're not here. Bill Wilson's probably dead. Forgive everybody everything.
Thanks for letting me be on
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