Russell S. Session 2: Step Series at Simply The Steps Group - 12/21/2025

Russell S. Step 2, Step Series at Simply The Steps Group, Sober Today Club, Hollywood, FL. December 21, 2025

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Miname's Russell spats, I'm an alcoholic and I haven't found
necessary to take a drink since nor have I. You
have to say that, you know, you gotta say I
haven't found an necessary nor have I. Because there was
one guy in Texas he said I haven't found necessary
to take a drink in twenty yearsn't. His buddy was

(00:22):
sitting in the front road. He says, you were drunk
last night. He says, yeah, but it wasn't necessary.

Speaker 2 (00:29):
You got to watch these Alkis that really not that well?

Speaker 1 (00:32):
You know?

Speaker 2 (00:34):
But they have issues. Alcoholics have issues. Did you guys
know that? You know that? He's saying the appendix too.

Speaker 1 (00:42):
They took about when you, ultimately twenty or thirty years
down the road, right before you die of cancer, discover
that there is a God and.

Speaker 2 (00:49):
You get on your knees and you get serious about
this thing.

Speaker 1 (00:54):
Dark Knight of the Soul kind of stuff. Some people
do that beforehand they actually get serious. Is they get
serious about the sixth Step. They decide their entire life
is about repeatedly doing whatever they can to grow in
the image and likeness of God. They didn't even stop
saying HP. They just say God like straight out, not

(01:18):
worrying what people think about it. I mean, that's I've
heard that happen sometimes to some people.

Speaker 2 (01:25):
So I haven't found the necessarily have a drink since.

Speaker 1 (01:29):
I found the necessary nor have I had a drink
since January twenty first, twenty fifth dementia. It's just driving
me crazy. It's a short drive though. I haven't found
that drink, nor have I taken a drink since January
twenty fifth, nineteen eighty one.

Speaker 2 (01:48):
So I'm in my forty fifth year of sobriety. If
I make it.

Speaker 1 (01:52):
Another month, you know, I don't know, you know, And
so you know, you learn, you learn a lot a
lot of you you know, you know, you get a
new perspective. I can attest to this. I can attest
this as a matter of personal knowledge, not just reading
the book. You know, one way you can have they

(02:15):
say in appendix too, we find out about this stuff.
Some of us have like flashes, you know, e epiphanies, And.

Speaker 2 (02:24):
I've had that, I really have.

Speaker 1 (02:27):
But for many of us, it's it's like we get
stuff from what's called the educational variety, you guys, the
education you've.

Speaker 2 (02:37):
Got, you know.

Speaker 1 (02:37):
Maybe I'm going to tell you a little bit about
the kind of education you're going to get an alcoholics anonymous.
I've been educated for forty five years.

Speaker 2 (02:45):
I've been educated.

Speaker 1 (02:46):
I've been educated by repeated humiliations, crushing of my self
sufficiency sober sober. As a matter of fact, there's nothing
like being crushed sober as It's nothing like picking up
a twenty year medallion and then getting crushed, you know
what I mean.

Speaker 2 (03:06):
You'd be surprised how much you could learn. You know,
Bill Wilson.

Speaker 1 (03:12):
Wrote, I think it around the twelve or twelve when
he had like thirteen or fourteen years or something like that,
and they had a big meeting of the Alkis Big
ALKI meeting, and that's when he came down with the
They all decided was like a business meeting, and he
had the most time. And I think, you know, give
or take, don't hold me this thing he had about

(03:34):
fifteen years.

Speaker 2 (03:36):
You guys have been to a business meeting, you know.
I went to some.

Speaker 1 (03:41):
You know, I really did go to some, and I
even go with some now, you know. But it's just
the people seem a little more mature because I hang
around people that are that like that these days. But coach.
I used to go to lit business meanings, said I got.

(04:01):
I got a lot of education about insanity at business meetings.
So you can get a lot of education about insanity
just leaving living your life having a good spot sponsor
that main desire life is to drive you to drink
and doesn't like you much anymore anyway. Anyway, they tell

(04:23):
you things like you know, good sponsors will tell you
like the truth, the unvarnished truth. You know, they're very
cruel and they abuse you. You're like, I had an abusive sponsor.

Speaker 2 (04:36):
And you know.

Speaker 1 (04:38):
Children of abusive parents they become abuses.

Speaker 2 (04:42):
Did you know that? So I'm I I relish in
the in the the fact that I'm well, I'm pretty obnoxious.

Speaker 1 (04:54):
I have a guy sponsored he's got twenty years and
he told me this story that his wife went to
a psychiatrist after he got sobered for about a year
or something, and he says, and he went psychiatrist and
he says, my husband doesn't drink anymore. And the psychiatrist
told his wife, he said, well that's wonderful. What have

(05:17):
you says he went to AA says, well that's incredible,
and she says, well he must have a sponsor. And
what he said is is she told the psychiatrist is yes,
he is a sponsor and he's obnoxious. And the psychiatrist

(05:37):
told her some people need obnoxious, Some people need obnoxious.

Speaker 2 (05:43):
Did you know that that's true? Some people need a.

Speaker 1 (05:47):
Cruel, obnoxious sponsor who seemingly doesn't care whether they drink again.

Speaker 2 (05:54):
And I'll really want.

Speaker 1 (05:55):
To just leave and drink, get out of here. You know,
doesn't care care. They care so much. The truth is
the guy who tells you that kind of stuff cares
so much that he doesn't give a shit when you
think about him.

Speaker 2 (06:09):
He doesn't.

Speaker 1 (06:09):
He doesn't think in terms of well, I better not
tell him this because he won't like me. They don't
think about themselves. They say, what does this guy need?
He needs a kick in the ass because he's an
arrogant define our chief charactivist is defiance, which is a
form of insanity. So in any event, so you you
learn a lot about insanity just sitting in an a room.

(06:34):
You don't think you're a saint, maybe you know, I mean,
you want to think you're you're not that bad, you know,
I mean, but you know, you know the way you
learn it you know, we don't even know our story.
We come in here, we don't have a story, you know,
and bad breaks and misunderstandings. But then you'll hear some
guy or some gal say something, say a story, and

(06:55):
so you say to yourself, you know you got. You
can't confront an alcoholic because they got they were all
folded with the defense.

Speaker 2 (07:02):
They have their defenses up. Like, for instance, I.

Speaker 1 (07:09):
Remember that there was a time and I've actually had
it happen to me lately where not only I would say,
but I would have people say to me, you don't understand.

Speaker 2 (07:22):
Now I know you guys are pretty sharp, so even
that problem.

Speaker 1 (07:24):
Never said that to anybody, but I would have a
guy with like thirty years tell me something about myself.
And I had like three minutes, and after he tells
me something about myself, I'd explained to the guy with
thirty years that he really didn't understand. You know, you
don't know me, you don't understand. And well he actually

(07:50):
understood pretty good, I've heard. So you go to a meeting,
so he can't confront him because they're well defended.

Speaker 2 (07:57):
You know.

Speaker 1 (07:57):
It's like I said, some guy came to see me
the hospital. I said, wait, wait a second, I said,
I know, from where you're sitting, you think I have
a drinking problem, But.

Speaker 2 (08:10):
I don't have a drinking problem.

Speaker 1 (08:12):
You know, I know from where you're saying, it looks
like I have a drinking but I don't have a
drinking problem.

Speaker 2 (08:15):
It says I drink because I have problems. As a
matter of.

Speaker 1 (08:20):
Fact, my drinking perfectly matches my problems, and one day,
one day, my problems are going to go away and
I'm not going to have to drink anymore. So I
really appreciate your advice, I really do. But why don't

(08:41):
you go f yourself, you know, or something like that?
You know, you know that kind of thing, you know,
and it's like a form of insanity. You know, that's
what it sounds like. You don't understand. Nobody understands. I'm
so unique. I once said to my sponsor, I said,
I was having a bad minute. What an alcohol as
a bad minute or a bad hour? You know, it

(09:02):
doesn't say, They never say. Because of the way our
brains are, there's a little voice in an alcoholic sprain. Look,
I'm just giving you my opinion based upon forty five
years of working alcoholics and working with myself and my
dementia has helped me a great deal.

Speaker 2 (09:18):
Let me tell you how great dementia is.

Speaker 1 (09:22):
I've noticed over after forty five years of listening to
all the bullshit alcoholics saying.

Speaker 2 (09:27):
That our problem has something to do with thinking. I
let's get.

Speaker 1 (09:37):
Past me for a second. I sponsored hundreds of men,
and I've worked.

Speaker 2 (09:41):
I've work women too. You know, they call me up.

Speaker 1 (09:43):
I don't sponsor them, but and whenever they call me
up on the phone, says, you gotta listen to you
wouldn't believe what just happened. Everything they're going at like
seventy eight rpm for you younger people. You don't even
know what I'm talking about. But it has to do
with records and stuff. But they're going real fast, and
they're talking real fast. They're all over the place, and
you can't even stop them. You say, wait, no, no, no,
you got to hear my story.

Speaker 2 (10:02):
There's more.

Speaker 1 (10:04):
It's all about being scared and pissed off and why is.

Speaker 2 (10:08):
This happened to me?

Speaker 1 (10:09):
And when they finally get done, you know, they tire
themselves out like little children, you know, run around, they attire,
he says, I said, let me ask you something. They said,
what I said, You've been thinking about this a lot,
haven't you. He said, yeah, how did you know?

Speaker 2 (10:26):
I said, I don't know.

Speaker 1 (10:27):
I just guessing, an educate, educated guess. You know what
I mean, you've been thinking about this thing. So I've
I've come to like a conclusion that our insanity and
our problems have a lot to do with our thinking,
and if we could only.

Speaker 2 (10:49):
Stop thinking, we'd probably feel better.

Speaker 1 (10:54):
I had a sponsor who I once explained to him
a ten years sober why I needed to get a divorce.
And let me tell you something. It was a long story.
It was a detailed story.

Speaker 2 (11:05):
And I was right. I was so right.

Speaker 1 (11:11):
And and he, after I told him the whole story,
details in detail, he didn't even stop me.

Speaker 2 (11:16):
He said, so that's it. And I was pissed.

Speaker 1 (11:19):
And he says so, And then he said this because
I always picked sponsors that were stupid. They weren't as
I have all these degrees. I got a shitload of degrees.
I was going for a PhD in algebraic topology. I
went to law school. I've kept the vision. I was
very smart, you know, as a matter of fact, I
actually knew everything. But unfortunately Unfortunately, that's.

Speaker 2 (11:41):
All I knew.

Speaker 1 (11:41):
I didn't know how to hold the marriage together be
a decent human being, but I knew everything else. So
so I explained to everything, and I said I So
after I was done, I said, I'm getting divorced. So
he said, and he said this to me. This is
how stupid these people are.

Speaker 2 (11:58):
He says.

Speaker 1 (12:00):
He had about twenty years. He says, So, why are
you upset? I mean, the one thing alcoholics know is
you know why you're upset. You'll go to a meeting,
You'll tell people why you're upset. You'll go up to
somebody on the street and say, let me tell you
the story. You'll tell why they upset. If there's one
thing we are geniuses at as to why we are

(12:22):
upset beyond a reasonable doubt, grove beyond a reasonable doubt.
So I'll tell him why I'm upset, and I'll tell
you knowledge. Is it clear to me?

Speaker 2 (12:31):
I can tell you this.

Speaker 1 (12:32):
If I was in a bar like that, like the
Albi Lounge, and my drinking buddies were there, and I
told them what I told him, they would all agree
kick that bitch to.

Speaker 2 (12:43):
The side, you know what I mean?

Speaker 1 (12:44):
They could understand me, this sponsor was the dumbest sponsor
in the world. Yeah, So I told him that story
and he said, so, why are you upset? How do
you even handle something like that when you tell somebody
a story that it's obvious why you're upset. You know,

(13:08):
if you don't understand that, you're so super you're like,
ALKI stupid. You ought to be killed because you're so dumb.
I said, well, what do you mean he says, why
you're upset? I said, well, she did. I said, I
heard all that. I said, but that's not why you're upset.
I said, what about when she said you know whatever?
You know, that's not why I upset? What about your
just that's not why you're upset? You asked him five

(13:30):
or six times about different things she said or did.
He says, that's not why you're upset. And you're sitting
there and this is your sponsor's the only sponsor you have,
and he's told you that's not why you're upset, and
you got maybe and I had when I did this,
I had ten years. Ten years said that's not why

(13:51):
you're upset. I'm not going to tell you the rest
of that story because I'm going to go back to
when I had one year. Okay, this is how this
is how brilliant I am, and what a slow student
I am. When I had one year and my sponsor

(14:14):
at that time was sponsoring me and sponsoring another guy
named Bobby. He uh he uh, Bobby, I'm a white
chip wonder you know. I pick up my white chip.
Never drank again after that. But Bobby would drink every

(14:36):
thirty days. He'd be good for thirty days, then he
drank and he wind up with He'd wind up in Bark.
I think they still have Bark here. And we would
go pick Bobby up, Me and my sponsor. You get
him a place to stay, he sober him up, get
him a job.

Speaker 2 (14:53):
Bobby was great for exactly like twenty nine days. And
on the.

Speaker 1 (14:59):
Thirtieth day, Bobby would drink, and my sponsor was a
great guy. He would take me out. We'd do twelve seven.
He was out there looking for alkies to help out.
We'd drive up to Bark again. We'd pick him up,
we'd bring him down.

Speaker 2 (15:19):
He'd sober him up, got him my job.

Speaker 1 (15:22):
And Bobby was great for like twenty nine days, and
on the thirtieth day he would drink again, and Bobby
would tell us. He says, well, you're just you tell me.
He says, you're just an alcoholic. You don't understand that.
I'm like a thirty day guy. He says, every thirty
days I drink. With thirty one days I drink.

Speaker 2 (15:42):
I says, you.

Speaker 1 (15:43):
Don't have that problem. I have that problem with thirty
days I drink. I mean, I don't know how to
handle that.

Speaker 2 (15:49):
He had it.

Speaker 1 (15:49):
He was a different type of alcoholic. You understand, He's
not an alcoholic like you guys. He's an alcolic, like
every thirty Some alcoholics drink like every thirty days or
every he sober up.

Speaker 2 (16:00):
But then I'm an alcoholic.

Speaker 1 (16:02):
I just after five years, I drink again, and then
after two years I drink again.

Speaker 2 (16:06):
You know.

Speaker 1 (16:07):
It's like a different type of alcoholic, you know, not
as it's like more unique needs something else, Okay. And
we would do he would do that, like around three
or four times. We'd go up there and pick him
up and everything, and I started feeling bad for my sponsor.
He sponsor, like fifteen sixteen, seventeen years, is a nice guy,

(16:29):
and he's going up there all the time and picking
them up and it was obvious to me being brilliant
at that time in one year, that this guy was
taking advantage of my sponsor.

Speaker 2 (16:41):
He was taking advantage of him. He was full of shit.

Speaker 1 (16:44):
I mean, I know, looking at you guys, and you know,
you're obviously very solid. You guys probably have never ran
into alcoholics that were full of shit. But I have
run into people that tell me they need help and
I find out they don't listen, do a word. I say,
they just want attention, you know, like, but that's what

(17:05):
this guy was.

Speaker 2 (17:05):
And it was pissing me off.

Speaker 1 (17:08):
And the reason was pissing me off because this guy
was abusing my sponsor. He's running a con job on
my sponsor. So we were driving up to Bark, you know,
after around five months of this bullshit, and I I
said to my sponsor, I was angry. I was pissed off.
I was having an argument. I had a lynch mob

(17:30):
in my mind. You know, kill him, kill him, you know,
because the way I think is it's not that what
we really need to do is take him out and
chop his fucking head off, you know what I mean.

Speaker 2 (17:39):
I mean, that's the way I just tell you. That's
the way I think.

Speaker 1 (17:42):
I'm sorry to use the F word, but if I'm
going to tell you the truth, I'm saying, kill him,
burn him at the stake. I'm killing people. I used
to do that all the time. When I was always
killing people. I cut in front of me. You know
what I mean. I had a machine gun. I'm like
imaginary machine gun. Listen, sober, I'm talking. I'm not gonna drunk.
You cut in front of me. You know, something happened.

(18:04):
I'm like pulling the trigger. I'm watching his car explode.
I'm going home. I'm killing his wife and baby in
front of him. Then I'm resurrecting him. I'm killing them again.

Speaker 2 (18:13):
You know.

Speaker 1 (18:14):
You see, you guys are relatively well alcoholics. You're not
emotionally disturbed alcoholic. I'm like, I'm not well. You know,
I'm not a well person. Okay, although I didn't realize
that at the time, I was massacring everybody.

Speaker 2 (18:30):
Uh So, in a event, what happened with Bobby.

Speaker 1 (18:33):
So, so I'm in the find and I say to
my songs, so we ought to turn this car. We
need to turn this car around. He says, why I said,
this guy is full of shit? I tell him he says,
full of shit. He doesn't care about you, doesn't care
about me, doesn't care about anybody.

Speaker 2 (18:46):
He's just what we did. We did this five months ago,
we did this four months ago. We've been doing this.

Speaker 1 (18:51):
Crap for four for four months, we've been doing this.

Speaker 2 (18:55):
He doesn't give a crap.

Speaker 1 (18:56):
We are to turn this thing around and not really
Like I'm a lawyer, so I'm like giving him like
an opening statement, closing argument, kill his ass, you know,
and everything like that. And and I was right, and
he was my sponsor, nice guy, but he is like
a used car salesman. I was so intellectually superior to
him it was unbelievable. I mean, I built an argument

(19:20):
that he couldn't argue against because it was so true,
you understand. And I mean you'd have to be an
idiot not to believe that I was correct. And he
didn't say, so what care he say? And then there
was like you looked at me at one point because
I was still going. He would say, he would say
a thing I would stop for. He say, are you done?

(19:40):
Are you done? Because the lynch Bob, I was still
burning him at the stake in my mind, you know
what I mean? I just couldn't so angry and said,
are you done? I said, yeah, I'm done.

Speaker 2 (19:50):
I'm done. I'm done. He says, you sure, He says,
I'm done. I'm done. I really wasn't, you know? He said?

Speaker 1 (19:56):
And then he said, so what could he say? There's
nothing this guy I can say to counteract my argument.
And he said, are you doing? I said, yes, I'm done.
He said, Russell, I said, what you said? Russell listened
to me?

Speaker 2 (20:08):
I said, what that is?

Speaker 1 (20:10):
What he said to me? He said, it doesn't bother
me like it bothers you.

Speaker 2 (20:24):
And I go, how could that not bother you? Everything
bothers me?

Speaker 1 (20:32):
And I wanted everything he had. He wanted nothing I
had used to have what I had. It's called alcoholism.
So let's go up ten years since I'm now cured.
Now I'm cured. I've got ten years sobriety. I'm sponsoring people,
and I'm cured of alcoholism. And I tell this story

(20:53):
about my wife and I've.

Speaker 2 (20:55):
Got a child with her, we got kids and everything
like that.

Speaker 1 (20:58):
I'm gonna kick her at the curb because all this
and I'm upset and everything like that. And now but
now you see, I'm upset. You understand what I'm saying.
But I've got a ten minute year of medallion, so
it's not like I'm insane or anything. I have a problem.
I got a ten year of medallion. And he says

(21:19):
to me, why are you upset? And I tell him
I I said, I just told you twenty minutes why
I'm upset. And he said, uh, that's nothing why you're upset.
Now I got so I obviously have another crazy dumb sponsor,
you know, and and uh, I said, that's not why

(21:41):
I'm saying.

Speaker 2 (21:42):
That's the way, that's why. That's the why I'm saying.

Speaker 1 (21:44):
Then he shuts up. So I'm sort of thinking, this
is what I'm thinking. Because he's got like fifteen, sixteen,
twenty years whatever, you I'm thinking that he knows something
that I don't know.

Speaker 2 (21:57):
He's like, he.

Speaker 1 (21:58):
Knows what's wrong. Anybody knows anything about alcoholics. The one
thing we want to know is we want to know
what's wrong with us. That's why we go to psychiatrist.
Guy knows something he's not telling me. And I say
to him, I'm not that's something. That's something ya, that's
not what I'm upset. Then he shuts up. So then

(22:21):
I say, so you know why I'm upset? He said, oh, yeah,
I know why I am said, you know why I'm upset? Ah,
so easy clear. I said, are you gonna You're gonna
tell me why I'm upset? He goes, I don't know.

Speaker 2 (22:40):
Do you really want to know? I said, of course,
I want to know why am I upset?

Speaker 1 (22:46):
And he says to me, and this is the exact
words he says to me, because he loved me so much,
He said, listen, stupid, you're upset because you're upsetable. That's

(23:10):
what he said to me. What did the first guys say?
It doesn't bother me the way it bothers you. I
was upset, He wasn't upset. He said, you're upset because
you're upsetable, because you're fucking crazy, because you're insane.

Speaker 2 (23:25):
You didn't say that. He said, you're upset because you're upsetable.
I said, what is this like? ZENAA?

Speaker 1 (23:35):
I can tell pretty much what I need to know
about a person in AA, or for that matter, any person,
but especially a person A about their sobriety and what
they say by what it takes to upset them.

Speaker 2 (23:50):
You gotta have forty years.

Speaker 1 (23:51):
If I'm watching you and you're upset about stupid stuff,
if you're upset at all, really don't take yourself too seriously.
As like a benchmark with me, people start taking themselves seriously.
You can tell me that you're, you know, super smart.
You can tell me everything you want about yourself. If
I see you acting out like you got three days,

(24:12):
you know, I deal with people all the time. They
got twenty years, fifteen years, and they start talking and
they sound like they have three days. They literally sound
like they have three days. You know, I can tell
they're not sober. So Bill Wilson has this a fifteen
year to get together. They you know, that's when they

(24:33):
did the traditions, you know, those things that people use
to keep you in an AA box so you can
never grow past AA. They just say to you're violating
the traditions. So don't talk about God, you violating traditions.
Don't talk about Jesus violating the traditions. Don't quote the Bible.

Speaker 2 (24:49):
That's all they.

Speaker 1 (24:49):
Read in a the first four or five years where
you know, don't what does it say? Really, I haven't
seen prison fail, who's followed it? What's the where they
thoroughly followed the path, thank you throw And the path
was they read the books they found the cential were
First Corinthians thirteenth Sermon on the Mount of the Book
of James. But don't you ever mention that, Doctor Bob said,

(25:11):
if you want to know about a just read the
Holy Bible. First things First was Siki first, the King
of God and his righteous all things.

Speaker 2 (25:18):
But yet it on to you. But don't you be
saying that in a some clown.

Speaker 1 (25:21):
Will come up to you and say, you know you're
getting out of the A casket, the a box.

Speaker 2 (25:26):
You know what I mean?

Speaker 1 (25:27):
If I violates them traditions, the Bible is not conference approved.

Speaker 2 (25:32):
The conference was a business meeting.

Speaker 1 (25:33):
With a guy with a long side was Bill Wilson.
They have that conference to think him down with traditions.
I'm not saying the traditions are bad, but I do
want to point out to you the guy who was
running the meeting started taking LSD about two years later.
You know, I just want to point that out. You know,
I'm just not telling you anything that you won't learn
because Bill Wilson talked about it, and a couple of
years after that he went down the tubes.

Speaker 2 (25:54):
He was going crazy, and he wrote.

Speaker 1 (25:56):
Something called The Next Frontier Emotional Sobriety, and he said,
my real problem was dependence on people, plays and things,
and I put too much dependence on alcoholics anonymous, you'll.

Speaker 2 (26:08):
Learn a lot.

Speaker 1 (26:09):
Apparently from fifteen years to like twenty years or twenty
you know, you learn Bill Wilson learned a lot. He
was so sure, you know they were. And now people
sit around and they use those traditions to make sure
you don't grow. They just beat ye out yo with them.
And and that's so. Let me tell you something. Between

(26:32):
the years of fifteen years and forty five years. You
ever seen that farmer's commercial he says, we know we
know a lot because we've seen a lot. You'd be
surprised how much. Well, you know how much you learned.
If you let me, you just have to have just
a little time. One year, two years, three years, five years,
you know, say hey, listen, have you learned anything since you.

Speaker 2 (26:54):
Had one day?

Speaker 1 (26:55):
Oh?

Speaker 2 (26:55):
Yeah, a lot?

Speaker 1 (26:56):
You know, I mean you realize that going through all
the crap we go through repeated to you on the
A said watching people in meetings, you know, you sit
there and you're you're relaxed, nobody's attacking you.

Speaker 2 (27:09):
You don't have to say you don't understand.

Speaker 1 (27:11):
And you hear somebody tell their story and they say
some sort of crazy asque insane story, you know what
I mean? And you say, man, that guys nuts. And
then the next thought is shit, I was doing that
last week. I mean, you learn a lot about yourself
just listening to stories, and it's crazy. I had a

(27:36):
gal call me up one time. I was on relay
for eight years. On relay, anybody calls up A on
a Friday night between eight o'clock at night and eight
o'clock the next morning, they get me for eight years,
which is why nobody came into A for eight years.
Gal says to me, can I talk to you? Says

(27:58):
what he says. Look, I've got I'm a nurse and
I've got a pH d. You know it's the smart
ones are always very smart, you know what I mean.
They want to make sure you know, so I want
to make sure you know it's He says. Then, I've
got a little daughter and I've got a PhD in nursing.
I didn't even know you get a PhD in nursing.
But she's like a doctor of nursing or something. And
he says, I got a problem, he says. When he says, well,

(28:20):
I'm being supervised by PRN, which is what happened with
nurses when they're you know, crazy, you know, with a
drinking thing.

Speaker 2 (28:27):
And I'm super you know that kind of thing.

Speaker 1 (28:30):
And he says, and and the other day I had
a drink. I'm real worried because if they find out
I have a drink, I'm gonna lose my nursing's license.
They'll take my daughter away from me. Also, it's a
bad shit, so she says. And she's sober. We washed
tell me this, she says. I I am scared. I
need to know what I have to do, so I

(28:53):
don't drink, you know, which is legitimate to ask somebody
in at one o'clock in the morning, you know, he says.

Speaker 2 (29:00):
But but.

Speaker 1 (29:02):
Because remember she has a PhD in nursing, I don't
want to hear anything about alcoholics anonymous. So I say, well,
we got two problems here. What's the two problems? I said, Well,
you're talking to a guy I'm like six years sober.

Speaker 2 (29:20):
In AA.

Speaker 1 (29:23):
And the only way I know about staying sober is
going to alcoholics anonymous. So when you say to me,
you want to know how to stay sober, but they
don't want to hear anything about AA. That's like a
non starter because I don't know what plan B is.
I don't know what the other deal is, you know
what I mean, or else i'd be in it.

Speaker 2 (29:42):
You know what I mean? I don't know.

Speaker 1 (29:44):
And then she says, well, what's the other problem? And
I say, you called alcoholics anonymous, miss PhD in nursing insane,
So you got this second step thing insane, insanity. I'm

(30:08):
walking along Miami Beach. There's a sign ten dollar cruise
to the Bahamas.

Speaker 2 (30:17):
I go in.

Speaker 1 (30:19):
I say, you got to sign out there ten dollar
cruise to the Bahamas.

Speaker 2 (30:23):
He says yeah. I said, is that legitimate? He says yeah.

Speaker 1 (30:28):
I said, you mean I got a cruise to the
Bahamas for ten dollars. That's right, it's a cruise to
the Bahamas for ten dollars.

Speaker 2 (30:37):
Absolutely, is that you listen? You got ten dollars?

Speaker 1 (30:40):
He says yeah. He says, give me the ten you're
on the ship. I give them ten dollars. I get
whacked upside the head. I wake up. I'm floating into
the fucking Gulf stream. I can't see land anywhere around
the other. Sun is going down, so I know east

(31:01):
from west and everything, and I'm floating.

Speaker 2 (31:05):
I guess in like a.

Speaker 1 (31:05):
Westernly direction, you know what I mean, We're an easternly
direction towards I guess the Bombas I look all around that,
I can't see land anywhere, you understand, I can't even
believe what's happening. I'm in this inner two, you know
what I mean, this black Inner two, and I'm just
floating there. I see one hundred yards ahead of me

(31:29):
another guy in a black the same Inner two.

Speaker 2 (31:32):
You know. That's the name of like a cruise ship
on it. I don't even know. I can't.

Speaker 1 (31:38):
I start, I start swimming towards that son of a gun.
He's there floating and I'm there floating, and we're both
floating to Nasau or something. I don't know what's going on.
And uh so I say you to him, I said,
this is unbelievable. We're going to die out here. The
sun's going down. I don't even know where we are.

(31:58):
I don't even know what's happening.

Speaker 2 (32:00):
And he says, you're telling me they're telling me. Look
look at what's going on. Look at you're telling me.
And then I.

Speaker 1 (32:10):
Said, this isn't a joke. We could actually die out here.

Speaker 2 (32:14):
We could die. I mean, who knows that? He said.

Speaker 1 (32:17):
I said, Hey, He says, fella, listen, you're telling me
like I don't know.

Speaker 2 (32:25):
We float a little bit more, you know, So what
are we gonna do? The son's going on?

Speaker 1 (32:31):
So I turned to the guy and I say, yeah, you.

Speaker 2 (32:35):
Think they feed us on this cruise? He goes, I
don't know. They didn't last year. Didn't last year?

Speaker 1 (32:51):
Fucking alkie insanity, right, So listen, I come in here now.

Speaker 2 (32:57):
Now here's the other thing. Now here's the other thing.

Speaker 1 (32:59):
I wanted to see. What the great things about dementia is, uh,
the main problem. Sometimes we'll say to guys, I sponsor,
I say, you know what we needs to do with you,
and I'll keep brain transplant because I believe if we

(33:22):
were to have an operation and take your brain out,
I think you'd be fine. I honestly do. I don't
think there'd be any anxiety whatsoever. Maybe replace your brain
with the brain of like an orangutang, you know what
I mean.

Speaker 2 (33:38):
Maybe that's the deal with you know so.

Speaker 1 (33:41):
So here's here's here's the situation. I'm I'm I'm thinking.
I know you guys have been sober for a while, right.
Have you ever been anxious? You ever been scared sober?
I mean, I'm talking about going to meetings, do wheverything
you're supposed to sponsor people. Have you ever been worried

(34:01):
about money? Property? You ever been worried about what people
might think about you? Have you ever not said anything
at something at a meeting because you're worried they'll think
you're stupid, or said something at the meeting and then said,
why did I say that?

Speaker 2 (34:15):
They think I'm stupid? You know?

Speaker 1 (34:17):
You ever you ever had go through that stuff? You
know where you worry about yourself? You ever get up
in the morning, said you ever think, man, if I
only had a girlfriend, or if I only had a
new job, or if I was only making more money,
if I only had a car, I'd be okay. You
ever tell yourself that you'd be okay if you had something?
You ever get that thing and then like three minutes later,

(34:39):
now you're worried about losing the thing, or painting the thing,
or fixing the thing, or you need another thing or
anything like that. You ever say things like why is
this always happened to me? You know, I can't believe
this is happening. You ever, you ever get upset about
stuff or anything?

Speaker 2 (34:54):
You know?

Speaker 1 (34:54):
You know, you ever say you ever say anything in
your mind? You ever tell yourself you don't care what
other people think about you, and then you spend the
whole that's after you've spent ten hours worrying about what
they think about you or you know that, kuy Yeah,
you ever, you ever have thoughts that are bad thoughts
about yourself and other people that you can't seem to stop.

(35:15):
You ever say to yourself, I gotta stop thinking about
this thing I've been thinking about for a week.

Speaker 2 (35:19):
I gotta stop. And for a nano second you stop,
then you start thinking about it again. You never have
that problem sober sober, you know?

Speaker 1 (35:29):
You know the great thing about dementia is when you
when you basically.

Speaker 2 (35:35):
Lose your mind. You got like two neurons.

Speaker 1 (35:36):
Working and they're waving goodbye to each other or something
like that, and you know, so you're thinking, you just
sit there and sort of vegetate. You know, somebody called
me up today and said, what are you doing, I said,
just vegetating. This guy went up to a meeting. I
was doing a meeting at some place. It was a
true story, you know.

Speaker 2 (35:57):
I was. I was sitting there waiting for a meeting
of stuff like what group was that? Life is Good?

Speaker 1 (36:03):
Life is Good group? And he said, can I ask
you a question? And I'm like one hundred people or something.

Speaker 2 (36:09):
In the audience.

Speaker 1 (36:09):
I'm starting meeting. He says, can I ask you a question?
I said sure. He says, you ever meditated? I said, yeah,
I meditated. He says, when do you meditate? I said,
when I'm not talking to you, you.

Speaker 2 (36:23):
Know, people come up to me. He says, can I
ask you a question? Sure? He says what do you
think about this? And they'll talk. They'll invite me to think.
They'll say what do you think about this? And I'll
say I don't don't.

Speaker 1 (36:36):
I don't accept invitations to think about things. It always
leads the trouble. And then even if I told them
what I was thinking about that thing, they probably start
talking to me. Why would I want to talk to them,
They're thinking, I'm not. I used to drink so I
wouldn't have to think and I could zone out it's

(36:58):
like committing.

Speaker 2 (36:59):
Suicide, but you get to wake up in the morning.
I used to smoke dope, so I wouldn't think you
understand what I'm saying.

Speaker 1 (37:06):
Why when I finally got to a place where I've
got no brain cells left, why would I accept a
fucking invitation to discuss something with anybody? It's like crazy, right,
So you know. So I'm sitting there in this deal
and I'm thinking one of the things that happens is

(37:26):
when you lose the capacity to think about things like
what's gonna happen with this, what's goingpen with that? Mostly
things that are never gonna happen. Not out of ten
of things that you think are gonna happen, aren't gonna happen.
The one thing that's gonna happen, its gonna be different
than when you think it's gonna happen.

Speaker 2 (37:38):
When you lose the capacity. I think it's.

Speaker 1 (37:44):
Possible that the reason that happened to me is because
I'm seventy six years old.

Speaker 2 (37:47):
It's a possibility.

Speaker 1 (37:49):
It's also possible that since I gave my life to
the Lord, and I love God and he's the central
factor of my life, and I'm convinced that He lives
in my heart, out of my mind in a way
which is miraculous, doing for me what I can't do
for myself. That it has something to do with my faith,
because the Big Book said all men of faith have
couraged they trust, they're God, they never apologized for It's

(38:10):
possible that maybe maybe if you really work the steps
and you get serious about God, maybe that's what happens,
you get some sort of spiritual dementia. But I can
tell you this one of the things that happens when
you when you get when you when you lose a
lot of old ideas and you get debrighted, desmarted. You
know what I mean is a lot of shit becomes clearer.

(38:35):
I don't know how to explain to you. It's not
because I'm smart. I used to be smart and I
was stupid. I was like smart stupid. I was smart,
but I do and say stupid things. Then I got
stupid and I became smart or wives, and so I
would just see things.

Speaker 2 (38:55):
I'd see things in other people. They would tell me something.

Speaker 1 (38:58):
I'd see things and I say, I understand your problem,
this is your problems. And I tell them what their
problem was, and they say you don't understand. I said, no, no, actually,
I do understand because I went through what you're going through.
You're the one who doesn't understand. That's why you're asking
me the question.

Speaker 2 (39:15):
You know. But that's like really too, you know.

Speaker 1 (39:18):
You understand and say so that's so I see things now,
and you know what I see.

Speaker 2 (39:24):
Let me tell you what I see.

Speaker 1 (39:26):
I see that every emotion I have had when I
was drinking, the fears, the worries, the anxieties, the envy,
the sloth, you know, the false pride, every emotion, bad
emotion that screwed me up when I was drinking, I

(39:46):
still had it.

Speaker 2 (39:48):
I still had it after I stopped drinking. There weren't
any like new fears, new emotions.

Speaker 1 (39:57):
Every crack that went through my mind when I was drinking,
I still had after I stopped drinking. It's just that
I wouldn't drink, and maybe it wouldn't be as bad,
or maybe it'd be worse. Sometimes there's nothing worse than
sober fear all alone at three o'clock in the morning.
And then I noticed something else that every emotion I

(40:18):
had when I was drinking bad emotion. Because I sort
of think this you're this, this, this may not be true.
I think that most alcoholics want to come in suicide.
I think there's a little voice in our brain that says,
get me off this fucking planet. I think drinking is

(40:42):
a way of temporarily killing ourselves. But we get to
wave up. You just whack it down, whack it down,
whack it down, and you're like, oh, you're fucking away,
You're gone. But you wake up again. See, the problem
My drink was not to drinking. Drunk was okay. I
just kept sobering up. My problem was my kidneys and

(41:07):
liver kept sobering me up, and I'd wake up and
go through the bullshit again.

Speaker 2 (41:12):
So personally, I think there's a little voice somewhere.

Speaker 1 (41:15):
Whether I know, we think we're great and we're cool,
but every once in a while voice comes through and
you hear it. It says things, you're an asshole, You'll
never be okay, why do even try? You might as
well put it gun in your head and just blow
your brains out or something like that. I think all
alcoholics have it somewhere. It sort of pops out. We
text people, we watch TV, we go to baseball games,

(41:37):
you get on cruises, we run around, do a lot
of stuff to keep the voice down. The worst comes worse,
we drink or we smoke something. But the bottom line
is we just want to fucking die. We're not really
that much in love with this world, in the life,
you know what I mean, want to buy something, spend money.
We don't have buy shit. We don't need to impress people.

Speaker 2 (41:59):
We don't even like. It's a losing gang. That's what
I think. And I think that a little voice is there.
And you know what I think.

Speaker 1 (42:06):
I think the things of this world, all the crap
we're surrounded by. You know, this guy, that gal, this car,
that car, the commercions is always.

Speaker 2 (42:15):
I think that kind of pours.

Speaker 1 (42:19):
I think that pours like gasoline on that stuff and
magnifies it a hundred times.

Speaker 2 (42:28):
And we can't get out of the world.

Speaker 1 (42:30):
I think the Lord once said, he said, in this world,
you'll have problems be of good chairs.

Speaker 2 (42:35):
I have overcome the world.

Speaker 1 (42:36):
We can't leave the world, and we can't leave our brain,
and we're screwed. I think if we go to a meeting,
there's a possibility for five or ten minutes.

Speaker 2 (42:45):
I mean, it takes us about ten minutes that you get.

Speaker 1 (42:47):
Past the bullshit we've been thinking about it, and then
we finally maybe start listening and we hear something we
feel a little bit better, like a band aid, you
know what I mean, or for helping somebody else fel better,
But then like an hour or two down the road,
we're back to craziness again.

Speaker 2 (43:02):
So it's really just and so I think that's sort
of like the way this.

Speaker 1 (43:07):
Sort of insane crazy thinking linked with this world and
everything like that, I think we have when we're drinking.
I think we're having after we stop drinking. I think
we had it when we were thirteen years old. I
think every bad emotion that we have that's driving us

(43:28):
nuts now we had when we were teenagers or ten
years old, all the fear, all the stuff. It was
just like ten year old fear, ten year old. If
I could only have this, I'd be okay, ten year old.
If only this would change, and that would change. Here's
what I think. I think the insanity that we suffer from,
And quite frankly, I think it's just not alcoholics. I've

(43:50):
met a lot of people that suffer from the same insanity.
They just don't drink. I feel very sorry for them.
They got no meetings to go to.

Speaker 2 (43:56):
You know what I mean?

Speaker 1 (43:58):
I think that I think the insanity we had when
we were five years old, that we didn't even know
we have because is the way we thought. I think
we have them when we're sixty five or seventy years old.
You know, the truth of matter is when I stopped drinking,
I was suffering from the same craziness I suffered from

(44:19):
when I was three years old or five years old,
ten years old never sort of.

Speaker 2 (44:23):
Went away, you know that kind of stuff. So you know,
now here's the deal.

Speaker 1 (44:28):
So I come into AA and I hit bottom, hopefully
on alcohol. Now here's the interesting thing. It says alcohol
is a symptom of a problem. Our real problem centers
on our mind, on our body. It tells us work.
You know what even uses the word is the second
step here? Does it have the word insane in there?
It even uses the word insane. Now, I came day

(44:52):
when I was thirty one years old, I was sane,
insane at three years old. I was insane at twenty
three years old. I was insane at thirty one years
old when I went to AA. You understand, doing insane things,
living a crappy life, so I'm come into AA.

Speaker 2 (45:10):
And this is the funny part about insane people. And
I'm with a group of people and they're all insane.

Speaker 1 (45:17):
And the only reason I like them is because they're
insane like me. But I don't even realize I'm insane.
I'm just hanging out with people in there just as
nuts as I am. And some guy gets up and
basically tries to explain to us that we're insane and

(45:39):
we can be restored to Saturday. Now. I want to
take the insane part. And half the people in the
room are what would be the word are.

Speaker 2 (45:54):
Upset.

Speaker 1 (45:56):
They're pissed off because they don't like the word insane,
and they're pissed off about being called insane. I mean,
they are actually people that get upset about being called insane,
and they get upset about that because they're fucking insane. Now,

(46:18):
the one good thing about me is when they told
me I was insane, I was excited because.

Speaker 2 (46:24):
I didn't really know what was wrong with me.

Speaker 1 (46:26):
So once they called me insane, I wore it as
a red bandage of courage. I knew I was nuts.
I am nuts. You know, when I every meeting I
go to, I'll talk about how crazy I am. I'll
give you examples. Machine guns in the car are killing people, dons.
It doesn't bother me to be insane. But here's the problem.

(46:50):
I just didn't know how to get rid of it.
And here's the other problem with alcoholics, with this insanity thing.
So I just want to tell you, whether you think
you're insane.

Speaker 2 (46:59):
Or not, you are. I'm just gonna let you know.
You're gonna be pissed at you. It doesn't matter to me,
you know.

Speaker 1 (47:05):
But but here here's the other problem. What's the second
step saying somebody remind me? That's the fucking problem. That's
the problem. What the hell does that mean? Came to believe?
Now if it said something like in thirty days you'll

(47:27):
be okay, In ninety days you'll be okay. In five days,
you won't be insane. In twenty years won't be insane.
But who's gonna sign a contract saying I'll go to
two millions of meetings, I'll do all this shit they
tell me to do.

Speaker 2 (47:43):
How long is that gonna take? Oh, you'll come to believe?

Speaker 1 (47:47):
Well, how long does that take?

Speaker 2 (47:51):
Is it like a year? I can do this thing
for a year?

Speaker 1 (47:55):
Two years, five years, seven years, When do you stop
being insane?

Speaker 2 (48:00):
Well, you'll come to believe. I'm not saying you're going
to not be insane.

Speaker 1 (48:05):
I'm saying you will come to believe that God can
restore you to said, well, when does that happen? I say, Well,
the truth is it doesn't actually ever one happen. It
doesn't one happen.

Speaker 2 (48:25):
You know what I mean. We want your money.

Speaker 1 (48:27):
I want you to pay the money and go to
the meetings to do all that substances.

Speaker 2 (48:30):
So when when can you give me an idea?

Speaker 1 (48:31):
I says, Well, you know, some people they feel a
little better at you know, twenty years, thirty years, forty years, but.

Speaker 2 (48:41):
You never really get there, you know what I mean.

Speaker 1 (48:43):
And and and they what happens is nobody at the
meeting tells you exactly when you're gonna get sane. They
never do you see people that are saner than you
or seem to be sane. And you say, maybe one
w you like that. But the truth is, every one
of us, maybe it doesn't matter. Forty five years, we
still got a little of that insanity in us. You

(49:05):
know what I mean, You understand, but it gets sparable.
You get used to it, you get sparable, you're not
as insane. It's like my sponsors say, I'm not sinless,
but I sin less.

Speaker 2 (49:19):
So you get better.

Speaker 1 (49:20):
But then what happens is with alcoholics, it's an unfortunate
thing and it's not our fault.

Speaker 2 (49:27):
What happens with.

Speaker 1 (49:28):
Alcoholics is they actually believe that they're going to reach
a point in time where they're sane. They think this,
They say, well, if I get one year, I'll be saying,
if I get five years, I'll get be sane.

Speaker 2 (49:45):
And they put out yourself, well, ten.

Speaker 1 (49:46):
Double digit, I'm absolutely going to be sane, twenty years,
I'll be saying. They see, that's the scary part, that's
the death part. They want to they you know why
they think that, You know why they think that, And
it's obviously not true for anybody.

Speaker 2 (50:03):
Wasn't true for Bill Wilson.

Speaker 1 (50:04):
He was nuts at fifteen years, nuts at twenty five years.
It's not true for anybody. You want to know why
alcoholics want to believe that, because they're fucking insane.

Speaker 2 (50:19):
You know, I don't know, am I making any sense here?
You're laughing? Why are you laughing at me?

Speaker 1 (50:24):
I'm trying to help you here I'm trying to help you,
you know.

Speaker 2 (50:29):
But here's the good part.

Speaker 1 (50:31):
If you realize you're insane, and you know you're insane,
and you embrace that insanity, and at the same time
you give your life to God, true, you'll start being
you will be restored to sanity. But you can't be

(50:52):
restored to sanity. The first step in getting out of
jail is you got to know you're in jail in
the first place. You can't be restored to sanity if
you think you're saying because then you think you're saying
you don't need God. And then you know what you
do after that, You start thinking, You start managing your life.

Speaker 2 (51:19):
You rest on your laurels.

Speaker 1 (51:22):
You start, you stop, you start, you stop realizing that
without God, you'll go crazy again. You'll the craziness will
start again. You'll slip backwards. Next thing, you know, you
got twenty years in your drinking. Next thing, you're old.
You're you're like my friend Jack. You go out into
the parking lot of the car room and you got
you got thirty five years and you and you'll put

(51:44):
a revolver in your mouth and you blow your brains out.
You do stuff like that or you start taking quay
louse to feel better, you start LSD or whatever that
could is, and you start doing insane stuff again with
double digit sobriety. So that's all I have to say

(52:06):
about it in Saturday, So thank you very much