November 7, 2025 • 50 mins
Russell S. Session 8 at the Life Is Good Group Step Series, Boca Raton 11/6/2025
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
My name is Russell Spats. I'm an alcoholic.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
I haven't found that served during since January twenty fifth,
nineteen eighty one, in my forty fifth year.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
It's good to be here with y'all. Sure a little
bit about my experience, strength and hope and some other things.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
And I'm just going to try to be as transparent
as I possibly can tell you a little bit about
my life and what I've learned over the last forty five.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
Years regarding this.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
Program of recovery that's been around four thousands of years.
Agree frankly, but that's my opinion. So most of the
stuff I'm going to share is going to have to
do with me in my life and my experience and.
Speaker 1 (00:42):
The experience that I've seen of other people. You know,
you know you you know.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
It's like that Farmer's commercial, I a little bit commercial
where that guy says, we know a lot because we've
seen a lot. You know.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
It's one thing to think you know or believe you understand.
Speaker 2 (00:59):
It's nothing to watch things happen over a period of time.
Speaker 1 (01:03):
And so I've learned a lot of stuff.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
I supposedly I don't call these step talks anymore.
Speaker 1 (01:11):
Because I'm all over the place.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
But I'd like to think that whatever I have to
say has something to do with some steps and last
we're really on so like an eight to nine thing
Connor right now, it did six and seven last week,
although I'm always talking about six and seven, then the
grown up steps, then the old timer's steps, and that
really keeps on.
Speaker 1 (01:33):
They keep on going. So but in talking about eight,
I just seven. You know, eight and nine. I wanted
to delve into a little into something we talked about
last week.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
I probably even read this last week, going to read
it again for reasons that I hope will become apparent
to you as this goes on, and maybe later on tonight.
This is the first chapter in step seven. This is
step seven humbly asked him, ask the Lord to remove
(02:09):
our shortcomings, of which I have quite a few since
This step so specifically concerns itself with humility. Humility isn't important.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
You know, humility. You might be familiar with this.
Speaker 2 (02:29):
That's the way we get a new perspective by repeated humiliations.
Speaker 1 (02:35):
It is not there's a connection there.
Speaker 2 (02:37):
The way we get humility is by repeated humiliations.
Speaker 1 (02:42):
That's not my plan of action.
Speaker 2 (02:45):
My plan was to be on a yacht with one
hundred Playboy bunnies and somehow gain ability. But apparently God,
apparently God knicks that plan. He wasn't into that deal,
you know what I mean, That was an old idea.
Apparently the way you get humility is by one hundred
forms of repeated humiliations and the final question of our
(03:07):
self sufficients.
Speaker 1 (03:08):
Doesn't sound like a fun deal to me. I don't know.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
But so if that hasn't happened to you yet, guess what.
He may not be done with you. You know, there
may be some more stuff coming on. So you know,
when you when you go home tonight and you get
a or tomorrow, you gotta call and you here the
irs seized all your bank accounts. You can say, oh,
this is the thing Russell was talking about. I thought
(03:35):
he was full of shit, and this is what he
was talking about. And then you'll say, thank you, Lord,
I thank you for the lesson.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
I appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (03:44):
Since this step so specifically concerns and self humility, we
should pause here to consider what humility is and what
the practice of it can mean to us. So I'm
gonna talk. I'm gonna talk a little bit about that
as in terms also what it has to do a
nine and how it's changed me. I'm not saying for
(04:07):
one second that I'm humble, because I'm not. But I
just want to talk about how humility can change you,
why it's important. And I think if you walk out
here have a little bit of a better understanding of
what humility is and what you have to go through
in order to gain it, and how it can help you.
Speaker 1 (04:27):
Out a lot. I think that would be a good thing.
Speaker 2 (04:31):
It says the attainment there, It says, indeed, the attainment
of greater humility. You know how, I'm very big on sentences,
not so much paragraphs.
Speaker 1 (04:43):
Too many paragraphs, you.
Speaker 2 (04:44):
Know, but I just take one sentence of your time. Indeed,
the attainment of greater humility. That means whatever the humility
you have, if you have any, it's good to attain
more humility, whatever that is. It's hard to how hard
to attain more humility if you don't know what humility
(05:05):
is in the first place. But do not fear, because
even if you are stupid and you don't know what
humility is, God's got a plan for you.
Speaker 1 (05:14):
I just want you to.
Speaker 2 (05:15):
Know you don't have to read a lie. You know,
you have to read the big Book backwards and forwards.
It isn't gonna give you a ship. Ain't gonna give
you any humility. The ain't gonna do give you any humility.
You twelve and twelve. You can memorize the steps. You
can do every step in the book.
Speaker 1 (05:30):
They ain't gonna give you aumility. But I want you
to trust me.
Speaker 2 (05:33):
God's going to dish it out to you. You're gonna
get it. You don't drink it, you don't die, you
don't find out all about humility. You'll probably find out
that humility even if you're drinking.
Speaker 1 (05:45):
So I want you.
Speaker 2 (05:45):
To I want you to know. I want you to
be able to recognize it when it's happening. You know,
some people don't recognize it when humility is happening. They
think so if they think it's a problem, it's not
a problem. You know. Indeed, the attainment of graduability is
the foundation, is the foundation principle of each base for
(06:06):
the steps that you know that that all the stats,
everyone including eight or nine, they.
Speaker 1 (06:12):
Have one thing in common is to get you more humble.
You get that now, if you've come to steps, and
they haven't worked that way and got you more humbled.
I don't know. Maybe you didn't do them right. Maybe
you got to do them some more, and maybe some
other things have to happen. I don't know.
Speaker 2 (06:31):
For without something where you reility, know, alcohol can stay sober,
can't stay.
Speaker 1 (06:36):
Sober at all.
Speaker 2 (06:39):
They at all near the old as have found two
that unless they develop much more of this precious quality
then may be required just for mere physical sobriety, they
still haven't much chance of becoming truly happy. So let
(07:02):
me ask this, what's the point of being sober if
you can't be happy?
Speaker 1 (07:07):
I mean, that made maybe some point, But what's the point,
you know, if you can't be happy?
Speaker 2 (07:14):
Uh? And then it says without it, they cannot live
too much useful purpose or in adversity be able to
summon the faith that can meet any emergency. So you see,
(07:34):
that's sound important this thing is, because you may find
I was just striving with Jimmy myrack over there, that's sponsible.
He's driving up here in my truck. I love my truck,
and we heard a knocking sound, you know, and the
engine life came on and I just spent like twenty
(07:55):
five hundred dollars in that truck, tune up and everything
like that, and he says, you know, what's that knocking sound?
Speaker 1 (08:02):
He's like a A categories, he says, in the engine
light thing on.
Speaker 2 (08:06):
And you know, I don't know when you consider that
an emergency, but in alcoholic terms, you have to spend
a bunch of money on a car and you're driving
up here and you're like, it's like if it didn't
and the engine like gooes.
Speaker 1 (08:18):
I so it's knocking in my life, I.
Speaker 2 (08:21):
Consider that a mini emergency. It probably wouldn't bother you, guys,
because your excellent in spiritual condition. But now I realize
that I'm talking to you, but I got to tell
you something. Now, it didn't bother me that much.
Speaker 1 (08:36):
It's the truth.
Speaker 2 (08:37):
You did buy it that much, but it's not, well,
it really didn't bother me that much. But I would
consider that something like that, there was a time or
something like that would just drive.
Speaker 1 (08:47):
Me nuts nuts crazy. So I think, so.
Speaker 2 (08:52):
That kind of stuff happens all the time, and you're like,
happens all the time? I said, matter of fact, I
think I had at least twelve emergencies like that just today,
just today. It's the truth. I just don't notice them.
Like when I was starting out to start this meeting,
(09:12):
I got a phone call.
Speaker 1 (09:14):
Did you my phone go on? There's playing.
Speaker 2 (09:16):
It's from my daughter who is up in some state
up north.
Speaker 1 (09:22):
I'm like South Caro. I don't know where it is.
But it's like I got a bunch of daughters. So
it's hard to keep cracking it.
Speaker 2 (09:29):
And it's THAT'SYC gonna be many emergency I'm a period.
My phone goes off, and I mean it may not
seem like a big thing to you, but when you're
an alcohol that's the kind of ship that will get
you drinking.
Speaker 1 (09:41):
You know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (09:42):
You know, the car going to the check check engine light,
and the phone going off, and maybe one other thing.
You know what I mean is stuff's kind of worldly, clamorous.
Speaker 1 (09:53):
It's terrible.
Speaker 2 (09:53):
So so what's the what's what? Is there a connection between?
There must be There must be. If all the steps
are connected, because they all have to do humility, then
the eighth step must have something to do with humility,
and the nice step that must have something to do
with does not make any sense. That's what That's the
only logic I have on this.
Speaker 1 (10:15):
What's the.
Speaker 2 (10:18):
What does humility have to do? This is a good
thing to talk about. This would be a good topic
at regular meanings. If they would talk about this kind
of stuff with regular meanings, it would be a good topic.
What's the connection? You know? People talk about the A
step nice step and I used to do this, you know,
and they talk about meantactically.
Speaker 1 (10:36):
How you do this?
Speaker 2 (10:37):
You know, I did this, I did that, you know,
film me so I made this amends it, but I
mean I made a list and they talk But what
is the connection between humility and the A step and
humility of the nice step? That might be something to
sort of talk about, you know, just for laughs and giggles.
So I think I'm going to talk about that a
(10:57):
little bit. So I I don't know the definition of humility.
It's not because I haven't looked it up. I've looked
it up over the last forty five I've looked it
up many times. I just don't understand that. I don't
get it. If you were to say to me, and
I got a bunch of time, and I've done a
lot of stuff, what's humility, I would say it's like
the supreme Court Justice says, what's pornography is?
Speaker 1 (11:19):
I don't know what pornography is, but I know when
I see it, you know what I mean? I don't know.
I know, I don't know what humility is. You know
what I mean?
Speaker 2 (11:30):
You know the guy is the old sort about the
guy who is being given the trophy on humility and
when he when he went up to get it, they
took it away from him. You know, is humility is
like a strange thing. But I will tell you this,
this is what I know. I know this absolutely. I
can tell you this. I've met humble people. I don't
(11:52):
claim it for myself, but I have actually met people
that have humility, that are humble, and I just sort
of knew they were humble. And I could tell you
the people that I met that were humble were very
attractive to me. They were very attractive to me, and
they were somehow different from me, and I could tell
(12:14):
that they had something that I wanted but I didn't have.
Speaker 1 (12:19):
I could tell that, and so I wanted to hang around.
I'll tell you something else.
Speaker 2 (12:24):
The people I met that had humility, most of the
other people that I knew wanted to hang around them too.
They just wanted to hang with them. They just wanted
to sit with them, you know what I mean. One
of the people I knew I had humility was a
guy named John Glenn, who was my third sponsor for
like twenty years, and he was a chaplain for the
(12:48):
prisoners in Detroit and jail and Detroit.
Speaker 1 (12:51):
He was a.
Speaker 2 (12:54):
Serious, serious man of religious man. Was he loved people,
you know, he loved Jesus. He was in that stuff.
And he was very quiet except when he was singing
in church. I know what his favorite hymns were. And
I loved hanging out with him, And so I didn't
(13:17):
have a definition of the ability. All I knew is
I wish i'd be like John Glenn. I'm not so
sure that isn't much different than.
Speaker 1 (13:26):
What we all do in here. I mean, even when
they talk about.
Speaker 2 (13:29):
The steps, the way they framed the steps, and you
think about it, is it may seem they tell us
about the steps or they and they do in the
twelve and twelve and you go to steps. But what
they really say, when you think about it, is, now
here's the sentence. Here's a sentence. Think about the scent.
If you want what we had and you're willing to
(13:54):
go to any length to get it, then you're ready
to take certain steps.
Speaker 1 (14:02):
Is enough. They don't say if you're bright enough to.
Speaker 2 (14:03):
Understand the word humility, or if you're smart enough to
know what we mean when we say personal inventory, they
don't say that. They say, if you want what we
have and you'll do anything to get it, then you're
ready to take. If you don't want what we have,
or you do, but you're not willing to got any
lith to get it, then it doesn't matter how smart
(14:24):
you are, you're not going to get it.
Speaker 1 (14:27):
That's that's the basic ingredient.
Speaker 2 (14:29):
To find somebody that has something you want and that
you'll go to any length to get it. And and
when you then you're ready to take whatever that step
is or whatever you're supposed to do.
Speaker 1 (14:44):
And it'll take a fact. It'll take a fact. Uh.
Speaker 2 (14:49):
You know, maybe if you don't want we have and
you just sort of do it with the guns your head,
or you do it, just get through.
Speaker 1 (14:54):
It, maybe it'll work. I don't know. I can't.
Speaker 2 (14:57):
I don't know everybody in AA, but I know in
coming up the ranks, a lot of my deal was
wanting what my sponsors had or wanting what other people had,
and I'm not sure whether I don't have the power
to put that desire in people. You know, the only
power I've been given it it's not even a power,
(15:18):
is the ability to try to be transparent to people.
Speaker 1 (15:21):
With other people as to what worked for me. I
can do that.
Speaker 2 (15:27):
I imagine there we had people who would seventeen years
and thirty one years and all these people, I imagine that
if we sat down with them, they were very honest,
and I'm sure they would try to be and transparent.
They would talk about the people in their lives that
made a difference.
Speaker 1 (15:40):
They wouldn't say.
Speaker 2 (15:40):
Well I got this or I got that, or I
got this or I got that look at me or
something like that. They probably say things like, well, I
had a sponsor named John. I'll never forget I got
this guy right. So they talk about people in their
lives that made a difference. And part of that difference
might have been these people were And I used to
(16:01):
drink in bars, and I'm a drunk. I'm an alcohol
and alcoholics are not humble. I'm not even sure when
I was drinking. I'm not even sure when I was drinking.
I ever in my entire life, drunk or sober. Ever,
(16:22):
even I don't think the thought ever crossed my life.
How can I get more humble?
Speaker 1 (16:32):
I mean, I'm serious, I would think, well, I.
Speaker 2 (16:34):
Wish I could did that blonde or why on that
red edder? Maybe if I get a new car. The
only thing Proust in my mind is how I could
be more noticed, you know what I mean, Get more attention,
get back out, get more money, get bigger, have people.
Speaker 1 (16:52):
I never thought about getting humble, and yet every one
of these steps talks about getting humble.
Speaker 2 (17:03):
So what happens if you get to the end of
the steps and you're still thinking about cars? I mean,
I hate this is like a sentence. I just threw
out a sentence to you. I'm just saying. I'm just saying,
you know, sometimes the brush clears up and you think
of things you never threw up before. I don't think
I ever said that in my life up to that.
(17:26):
What happens if you get to the end of the
steps and you're still thinking about life and about yourself
the way you thought about life and yourself.
Speaker 1 (17:35):
When you're eighteen years old? Did the steps? Really? If
you say I did the steps or I did, the
big book doesn't really have any meaning. Have you really
done the steps?
Speaker 2 (17:45):
Or if whatever you did that you thought of the
steps didn't have the actual effect.
Speaker 1 (17:50):
Of what the steps you're supposed to do.
Speaker 2 (17:53):
I mean, what if you do the steps perfectly and
you come out the other end of the exactly the
way you went in.
Speaker 1 (18:03):
Thinking about the same.
Speaker 2 (18:04):
Things, worrying about the same things, all that sort of stuff.
What does that mean did you actually do the steps?
Is there's maybe there was something.
Speaker 1 (18:12):
Missing, you know, I don't know. I don't know.
Speaker 2 (18:17):
So that's why I want to talk a little bit
about humility. So I told this story, and I think
most of you people don't.
Speaker 1 (18:24):
I don't really know.
Speaker 2 (18:24):
I think most people here have heard a lot of
my stories, and I think I've told the story during
my you know, one of the meetings I did before this,
and they've will been recorded so yet. Even but I
think I told the story about my first marriage to
my first wife. I might, I might sort of go
in if there's I don't know whether there's anybody here
(18:46):
who hasn't heard the story, But I'm going to go
into it again and add a little something to it
because I think it's important regarding the eighth step, the
ninth step becoming.
Speaker 1 (18:56):
Transparent, being honest, and.
Speaker 2 (18:58):
Developing some sort of humility, because it's greatly affected my life.
It's greatly affected my life in a good way. In
a painful way, but in a good way. And So
I saw this girl when I was nineteen twenty twenty
(19:18):
one or something, and I said, Man.
Speaker 1 (19:21):
If I could get that girl, i'd be okay. And
your alcoholics like me.
Speaker 2 (19:26):
One of the things I realize is that if I've
had if I'm an alcoholic, and if I've had a
thought and you're an alcoholic, you probably have the same
thought because we may look differently, but we basically that's
the only reason AA works is because we think the same.
You know, I mean, how many times those person have
Coppetune says you were talking about me?
Speaker 1 (19:43):
You know, it doesn't matter. We think we have the
same thought patterns.
Speaker 2 (19:47):
You know, very few people walk out of amy and
say I don't understand what they were talking about.
Speaker 1 (19:51):
You know what I mean?
Speaker 2 (19:52):
I mean, you say, man, these people understand me. You're
talking about me. So I said to myself, Now, I
don't care who these see. If I only have that car,
I'd be okay. If I only had money, I'd be okay.
Speaker 1 (20:03):
If I was only fifty pounds later, I'd be okay.
I don't give a crap.
Speaker 2 (20:06):
You're always the grouche and based on you've always got
a great idea of what's gonna make you okay, and
it all and it never has anything to do with
your ability. Oh man, if I could only be more humble, Oh.
Speaker 1 (20:18):
Yeah, it's a ticket. Man.
Speaker 2 (20:21):
It's always if I got to have that guy, if
I have that girl, if I can have sex, if
I can make money.
Speaker 1 (20:27):
But it's always that stuff, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (20:30):
And you know that's what you think of when you're
like thirteen years old and maybe Playboy or eighteen years old,
or you know, watching TV or nineteen years old or
twenty years old.
Speaker 1 (20:41):
When you're a young man or a young woman, you think.
Speaker 2 (20:43):
About what would you want that would make you fantastic.
Speaker 1 (20:49):
It's all vanity stuff.
Speaker 2 (20:51):
You know.
Speaker 1 (20:51):
It's all dyeing your hair or getting a different.
Speaker 2 (20:55):
Suit or dress, or it's all about making yourself, like
being a peak and making yourself look better tot other
people and worried about what they're saying, engaging yourself next
to other people. That's what it's all about. That's what
it's all about for years. And I'll tell you something else,
a little secret I've seen. I don't know if you've
seen this. After you get sober, that's sort of like
(21:17):
the way it is for the next thirty years. That's
sort of like the way it is for the next
twenty thirty years. And so you're sober, but not really.
You understand you're sober, but you're not really sober.
Speaker 1 (21:32):
You're just physically sober. But hell, you're having so much
fun in AA. We all meet, We all like each other,
you know, we.
Speaker 2 (21:39):
All laugh, We go to restaurants afterwards, we have conventions
and shit. Let we get so in love with the
fellowship about faults anonymous and the fact that we're different
that we found are like home and our little cult,
you know, and our little dealer, you know.
Speaker 1 (21:53):
And so it's so happy.
Speaker 2 (21:54):
We don't even realize that we're really not that much
different than when we were eighteen years old, are we.
It's always checking the bank account, checking the way, get
them on scale, you know, you know, getting the surgery,
you know, whatever it is, whatever you need in order
to find a viagra. It's all about It's all about
(22:15):
that stuff, isn't it.
Speaker 1 (22:16):
You know? I mean, you know, so that sort of deal,
and that goes on and on and.
Speaker 2 (22:24):
So it's a puzzlement to alcoholics as to why when
they have ten years or seventeen years or thirty one years,
why they still have serious problems that they don't feel
so good. You know, they can't understand how come they're
not feeling better now.
Speaker 1 (22:42):
They may get being distracted.
Speaker 2 (22:44):
They may be at an a meaning, they maybe be
listening to a speaker, good speaking, and they may feel good.
They say, man, that was great, but eventually the ism
comes back and they're lowly again and not feeling good,
and they can't quite understand because what a becomes, which
in the beginning is great in the beginning.
Speaker 1 (23:05):
So it's so important in the beginning. Screw getting humble
is so important in the beginning. To not drink.
Speaker 2 (23:13):
I mean, I'm telling you, I may put down that
don't drink and go to meetings and that kind of crowd,
but I'm JUSTLM. If I didn't, if I didn't stop
the drinking, it was constantly stopped. Don't drink, you know,
don't have resemblance If that wasn't like pounded into me,
I would have never made it to forty or thirty
or twenty or anything.
Speaker 1 (23:32):
So it's so important.
Speaker 2 (23:34):
But what happens is we end up thinking really that
what this whole thing is.
Speaker 1 (23:41):
Well, it's like James just got out of prison. It's
like a prison sentence.
Speaker 2 (23:47):
It's like it's like we slap on AA in the
steps and the fellowship and the sponsors, like you would
put band aid on a wound.
Speaker 1 (24:00):
You got the escaping wounds. So you go to a
you put a band data on it, and.
Speaker 2 (24:03):
You're okay for a few hours and then and then
you know you're rip off the scab or something like that,
where it's like.
Speaker 1 (24:11):
Taking an aspirin. Going to meetings is like taking a drug.
Speaker 2 (24:15):
I'm not putting down going to meetings, but that's what
ends up being. It's a temporary Going to meetings is
a temporary fix. Everything we do in here is a
temporary fix.
Speaker 1 (24:29):
You know how. I know it's temporary because if you.
Speaker 2 (24:31):
Stop doing it, you end up drinking and going prazy.
It's a temporary Nothing is permanent in here, you understand,
that's the deal.
Speaker 1 (24:40):
Nothing is permanent. It's a temporary fix.
Speaker 2 (24:43):
Which is probably why when we rest our laurels and
we got a lot of time, we get to read
the we get to wear those gold battalions around our
next with thirty years and after we get all that in Rappabeta,
it's probably a lot of people drinking it. We're not
doing well because they think they obtained something that they've changed,
(25:04):
that they've that.
Speaker 1 (25:05):
They're no longer alcoholic.
Speaker 2 (25:07):
They're no longer really they're what's the words, They're spiritual,
not religious, like a different type of human being, you know,
like no longer an alcoholic, sort of like a little
bit below the angels, but.
Speaker 1 (25:25):
Above like normal people, you know what I mean. You know,
that's that sort of thing. So we have that sort
of like humility where we're humble, but we.
Speaker 2 (25:34):
Really think we're better than most people, you know what
I mean, And would be really better than most people
if we had a new Jaguar or something like that
new car, you know, that kind of deal, right, so
so so so getting back to my marriage, so I
meant this when I said, if I could only.
Speaker 1 (25:52):
Have that gal, I'd be okay.
Speaker 2 (25:54):
Now I'm I'm as short of the story makes us,
you know, sinuated myself with their life. I did whatever
I had to do and I ended up getting married her.
She's very nice, sweet GwL. We had a baby, we
had a house in Miami Beach, and within six months,
I was hanging out in the bar, was looking at
other women.
Speaker 1 (26:11):
That's what I was doing.
Speaker 2 (26:13):
And I wasn't even thinking that my wife's at home
waiting for dinner with the baby, and I never showed up.
And she put up with that for four and a
half years. And I did that for four and a
half years. And for four and a half years, as
I was doing that, it never occurred to me that
I was doing anything wrong, anything wrong, And I never
(26:35):
cheated on my wife.
Speaker 1 (26:35):
And as a matter of fact, I thought I was
very proud of.
Speaker 2 (26:37):
Myself because I think guys were cheating and I said
I won't do that. I'd said I won't do that
because I'm a man of integrity, But really I was
chicken shit.
Speaker 1 (26:46):
I was scared.
Speaker 2 (26:47):
I didn't have the guts to cheat on my wife,
but I would just stay there and ignore her.
Speaker 1 (26:52):
You know, I don't know whether that's ever happened to you.
Speaker 2 (26:56):
You know, I don't know whether that's ever happened to you.
Where you know, somebody travel, I just sort of ignores you,
for it's a very painful thing to put on anybody
in any of that. One day she said, you come,
I'm drunk one more time.
Speaker 1 (27:08):
I'm leaving you. You know that's the sentence. I didn't
understand it. I said, what does she mean, my dad?
Speaker 2 (27:13):
Because it's one of those sentences that you don't really
understand it, even though an idiot would understand it, But
you don't understand it because you're too bright to understand
what does that mean?
Speaker 1 (27:24):
Then I came home drunk.
Speaker 2 (27:26):
I told that whole story, and she kicked me out
of house, and that's the end of my marriage. I
lost my house, my wife, and everything so here. And
if you asked me what I did wrong, I didn't
think I did anything wrong with just different people going
from different things. And I discarded my wife so I
could go out with other women. That's what I did.
And the reason I did that is because in my life,
(27:49):
the only thing I cared about is myself. I didn't
care about anybody else, which I think now I'm pretty
sure about. This has something to do with self centeredness.
It says selfishness, self centeredness, that's what that's the root
of our trouble, you know, driven by one hundred forms
of fear of self. We step on those brothers, they retaliate,
(28:09):
sem'll not regret. But we've learned, we've made decisions based
upon self, which puts us in position to be heard.
So that alcoholic isself over right though we used to
us and think so so so.
Speaker 1 (28:19):
For me to hurt people.
Speaker 2 (28:23):
And not even realizing I'm hurting people, or how about this,
I could hurt people? How about this one? This is
what my sponsors said to me. This, don't get a
sponsor like this. I had mean spot. I could hurt
other people and not give us shit. You ever hurt
anybody and not give a ship or at least tell
(28:45):
yourself you don't care. They deserved it, it's their fault
or something like that. It's because I'm a selfish, self centeredself.
Speaker 1 (28:53):
So here's the deal.
Speaker 2 (28:54):
So when you get divorced, I had I had a
son and he was like six years old, seven years old,
and I get and you get the worse. I don't
know how many people have ever been divorced. I got custody,
you know, time sharing custom thing, and I would get
him like on you know, every other Saturday or Sunday
or something in that. So I told my son, I said,
we're gonna go to the zoo next week, and he
(29:16):
said really, He says, yeah, I'm gonna take you to zoo.
And I felt real good about that. And I really
intended to take him to zoo. But what happens. That
was gonna be on Saturday. But on Friday I went
to the bar and I met a gown named Susie.
Is one good, good looking gown, you know. And the
next morning my son was waiting for him to take
(29:38):
him to the zoo, and Susie called me and she said,
Russell the girls, which means more than one girl, the girls.
Speaker 1 (29:49):
This is a string of sentences.
Speaker 2 (29:52):
So don't lose me, all right, going out on the
boat today, girls on a boat, you know what I mean.
It's a sentence, and we'd like you to come along.
So I want to tell you them, that's a sentence.
A guy like me can read a lot of shit
into Let me tell you something. It just fires my imagination,
(30:13):
you know what I mean. That's a worldly clomber that
knocks God out of the picture. He was never in
the picture, knocks my son out of the picture. So
I have this debate. I said, my son is waiting
for him and take him to the zoo, and this
gala is saying, let's go out of the boat. And
I'm having this incredibly difficult debate with myself. Do I
(30:39):
like blow off my son, which would be the wrong
thing to do, But do I go with the girls
on the boat and you know, I have fun, maybe
have sex, strength and all that sort of stuff, you.
Speaker 1 (30:49):
Know what I mean. And I must have struggled with
that for all of like what a nanosecond.
Speaker 3 (30:56):
Right, and it was anchors away now now you know,
of course, you know I called up my son and
I explained why I couldn't make it.
Speaker 1 (31:10):
No, that's something you guys would do because you're much
more highly you're you're, you're, you're, you're at a higher
level of spirituality.
Speaker 2 (31:17):
I just left and never called him, and he I'll
stop that shit. Don't be doing that crap. Don't do
that to me, don't I don't need that. I've made
amends to my son, you know, pray me not enough.
Speaker 1 (31:33):
But I'm still making it. Okay, we talk, I love
him and everything like that.
Speaker 2 (31:37):
But I mean, but you get but I'm glad you
did that because you you because the women that did that,
and maybe there's even a guy out there did that
who said, oh my god, I mean you're you have
a feeling deep out down inside as to what an
asshole I was.
Speaker 1 (31:57):
But that's me. That's what it is.
Speaker 2 (32:00):
That's what alcoholism looks like in me. Now here's the
problem is. Now, by the way, if you're going to
live a life like that, you're going to drink.
Speaker 1 (32:11):
You have to drink.
Speaker 2 (32:13):
You must drink, otherwise you blow your fucking brains out,
you kill yourself, you hate yourself.
Speaker 1 (32:20):
You gotta drink.
Speaker 2 (32:20):
But you know, there's no amount of drinking if you
are constitutionally and you know what they say, those who
don't make it are constitutionally incapable of being.
Speaker 1 (32:31):
Rigorously honest with themselves.
Speaker 2 (32:34):
Now, I had a little bit of an argument, not
as much as argued discussion with Jim, and really had
to do with a theological discussion. But you've got in none,
you know, help people come to God, things like that.
And I said, apparently, according to the Big Book, this
has to do with Calvinism.
Speaker 1 (32:50):
I'm noting this thing.
Speaker 2 (32:51):
There are some people that are constantly capable of getting it.
You know, I see that in AA. I think that
sort of like A sort of takes that stance. The
apparently it looks like there are people that, no matter
what happens, they're just constantially incapable of being offso for themselves.
And we run into him and AA said, we don't understand,
how come this guy can't happen?
Speaker 1 (33:10):
This guy can't do it. On the other hand, we.
Speaker 2 (33:13):
Never make a judgment against people because we know that
no matter how screwed up they can get, they can
actually make it. So you can't sort of like give
them and say, well, that guy can't get But it's true.
It seems that some people just cannot get it that
constantly capable, and there are some people that are capable,
and maybe after twenty years they capable of they're capable.
Speaker 1 (33:34):
So we treat everybody like thinking make it.
Speaker 2 (33:37):
And so the deal is is I'm you know, apparently
it looks like that. At one point in time, when
I was thirty one years old, I got.
Speaker 1 (33:47):
On my knees and I did something. I gave my
life to God.
Speaker 2 (33:53):
And apparently it's lasted for quite a few years now,
and it's gotten stronger.
Speaker 1 (33:58):
But let me tell you what the problem is.
Speaker 2 (34:00):
When you have a conscious, a conscience, and you can
be conscious and you can increase your conscience conscience relationship
with God. You know the eleven step nine. And you
got what happens even when you're a total piece of
crap like I was back then, and you did that
to people deep down everybody. You ever see the portrait,
(34:21):
ever see the movie The Portrait of Dorian Gray. You
may tell yourself all sorts of shit, but deep down
inside there's a little portrait of yourself and there's a
big black mark on it. You know what a piece
of crap you are? You know how you know you
know what a piece of crap you are because when
you're driving in your car and you haven't done anything wrong,
(34:46):
and all of a sudden you're having a conversation and
you're hearing somebody say to you, you're such a loser,
You're such a piece of crap. You want to kill yourself.
You're never going to be okay, You're just a piece
of crap. And you're constantly you have one part of
you telling you the greatest person the world and you're fantastic,
and you got another voice telling.
Speaker 1 (35:03):
You a piece of crap. You want to kill yourself.
You're never gonna be okay.
Speaker 2 (35:08):
That's every time you left your son waiting for you.
It's still deep down inside and only you know it.
That's not something coming from venus. You know that's your
actual reputation with yourself, because you cannot be dishonest for
a total period of time, forever about the crap you've pilled, you've.
Speaker 1 (35:29):
Pulled, and it's a horrible, horrible way to live.
Speaker 2 (35:34):
And so when you're an ego maniac with it without
an inferiority company, well, if you're an egomaniac, you're probably
going to have an inferiority flex if it's all about
you and your ego. And that's the whole thing, which
apparently true with alcoholics. You understand you're gonna hurt a.
Speaker 1 (35:49):
Lot of people. You're gonna lord over people.
Speaker 2 (35:52):
No matter how many times you say to yourself you
don't care what other people think about you. You're gonna
be constantly somehow deep down inside, it's gonna bubble up
to the time what are they gonna think about me?
Speaker 1 (36:02):
And you?
Speaker 2 (36:02):
And you know something, you cannot handle self hatred, and
you can't handle people not likeking you.
Speaker 1 (36:12):
No matter how. But you drink, and you'll drink a lot.
Speaker 2 (36:15):
Eventually your liver and your kidneys will get you sobering
at and you'll be miserable and you'll be horrible, and
soon what you'll do is you'll find yourself drinking so
that you don't feel like the piece of shit, you
know what I mean. And you know what's gonna happen.
One of these days, You're gonna drink so you don't
(36:36):
feel like a piece of shit, and you're gonna feel
even worse. It's gonna have like an it's gonna it's
gonna actually make you feel even more sorry for yourself.
But the problem is, even if you can manage to
stop drinking and go into a and everything like that,
you're still gonna have those black marks inside of you
that are gonna have You're gonna have a wrestling match
(36:56):
with how crap you are.
Speaker 1 (36:58):
And it may not be so much conscious.
Speaker 2 (37:00):
You may not even understand what's going on, except maybe
for twenty years later when you look back and see
this is what was happening to me. You just feel
crappy about yourself and you feel like you're not good enough,
and you just feel horrible and just you're sober and
it's just not working for you, and you don't know
what the reason is why. And you know something, for
many years I did terrible things to people. Well, I
(37:24):
just told you about two terrible things I did to Why.
I just told you about something I did to my
son and something I did to my wife, And then
I told you.
Speaker 1 (37:32):
Now I'm telling you the story.
Speaker 2 (37:34):
But I don't want you to think for one second
that I would have told you the story what I
did with my wife and my son like three weeks
after it happened. I mean, I'm telling you like for
ten years, I didn't even realize, Well, I thought I
was okay. If you asked me why, I tell you
some sort of story that I believed. I have all
(37:54):
sorts of stories. Just look why I did this and
why it's okay, and you don't understand and and all
sort of stuff. You'd be surprised how much you can
bullshit yourself regarding being a good person instead of a
piece of crap.
Speaker 1 (38:12):
You'd be so so.
Speaker 2 (38:15):
In other words, let me tell you how bad, how
terrible this alcoholism is. If you've ever done anything like
what I'm saying to people and sitting here now you
realize what you did, and you realize it so much
that maybe you're either going.
Speaker 1 (38:29):
To make an amends, so you want to make an
amends or you happen in amends.
Speaker 2 (38:34):
Let me tell you something, there may be some other
shit that you don't even realize you have right now.
You may not be as good as you think you are.
There may be some sid I know you did your
aig something yet you may have you may not be
perfect yet. There may be some other stuff that you'll
(38:55):
figure out twenty years from now or ten years now
going on your life, which is why you're not feeling
as good as you could be feeling that maybe have
some stuff and stuff going on, and you may not
realize it for five years because we have a way
of covering things up and saying, look at how I'm doing.
I got I got my seventeen year medallion, I got
my I'm in my forty fifth year. I mean, I'm
(39:19):
so there was a time. There was a time when
I used to say to myself, like everybody says, and
you probably said, and there's nothing wrong with this, It's
okay because it says do not conform yourself, you know,
to the world, but be transformed. That's a sentence. Okay,
(39:40):
do not conform yourself day now. The important thing is
it's important to conform yourself day as far as not drinking,
going beans, going to all that stuff and do what
they do, but don't use necessarily the people in AA.
Speaker 1 (39:52):
After you get sober.
Speaker 2 (39:56):
As what you want to attain and know higher, you
may want to find the John Glenns. You may want
to find those people that are not drinking and going
to means, but they got something.
Speaker 1 (40:10):
You don't have.
Speaker 2 (40:11):
Where you want what they have and you when we
go anything, they forget it and you don't have it.
Speaker 1 (40:15):
It has something called humility.
Speaker 2 (40:18):
You know you got because you're gonna be compan to
hang around with and what you want and if all
you want is what we have in well, people's anonymous
here hundreds and thousands of people that are wearing medallions
that have their their year of sobriety on it and
saying isn't this great? We're all in the wonderful cult
(40:38):
of alcoholics Anonymous. You may find yourself in the same
position Bill Wilson found himself in when he was funny
one years sober and like, you know, almost suicidal because
you're resting on your laurels and you're heading for trouble
and you don't realize there's more you can have.
Speaker 1 (40:58):
So you're doing with the outside the exact opposite.
Speaker 2 (41:01):
Of the sixth step. You're settling. You may find out
you're hurting people and you're hurting yourself, and you're doing
things and you don't even realize it because you think
you're okay because you're sober fax number of years.
Speaker 1 (41:13):
So how does this fit into humility or any of
this stuff? And I, for the most part, I did
all the list, I did all this stuff.
Speaker 2 (41:19):
I don't you know, I don't you know, man, I
haven't found I figured out something that if you don't
hurt people and say bad things to.
Speaker 1 (41:28):
People, you don't have to make amends. Did you know that?
Speaker 2 (41:32):
You know, for those of you who don't like making
amends and constantly feeling guilty and all.
Speaker 1 (41:35):
Sort of stuff, if you don't do stupid shit, you
don't have to make amends.
Speaker 2 (41:38):
I'm just telling you, but I did something stupid the
other day and it was killing me.
Speaker 1 (41:44):
I said, oh my god, I hate this shit.
Speaker 2 (41:47):
You know what I mean?
Speaker 1 (41:49):
I shouldn't decide I said something. I said something, I
said something cruel to somebody because I was trying to
be funny and it wasn't funny at all. It was cool,
you know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (42:00):
So apparently I'm still I have the scenes of I'm
still Apparently Apparently I haven't totally grown out of being
an asshole.
Speaker 1 (42:10):
So what is this? So lo it is me? Let
me get right down to the deal.
Speaker 2 (42:16):
I stopped saying many years ago, maybe ten years ago,
that I'm spiritual not religious, because something came over me
where I realized that I'm not spiritual, that the honest
truth is I'm a carnal man.
Speaker 1 (42:34):
That means I love the things of this world.
Speaker 2 (42:39):
My head can be turned around by good looking woman,
by a car, by money. Listen, when you spend time
worrying about money, and you spend time thinking about things,
and you spend time thinking about material stuff and everything
like that, you can't lie to yourself and say I'm
like spiritual because you're not spiritual.
Speaker 1 (43:02):
You know what I mean, They're not spiritual.
Speaker 2 (43:05):
But there's a great relief in my life by letting
myself know that although I'm.
Speaker 1 (43:17):
Not sinless, but I sin less.
Speaker 2 (43:19):
You know what I mean that I've changed, You understand
I don't put down the change, But I don't think
of myself as spiritual. I think of myself as a
person that's still I'm not saying just as sick as
when I walked in here or anything like that, but
still a man that absolutely needs the Lord's help and
(43:39):
needs to be close to God, needs to embrace God
because I have not risen to a point where I'm
okay that I still can be dishonest and I can
still hurt people.
Speaker 1 (43:53):
And I can tell you for me.
Speaker 2 (43:55):
But do you believe it or not? Logically it works
better to well, you may say, well, that's terrible to
think of yourself as the center. Think of yourself think.
Let me tell you something for me. It works better
to wake up in the morning knowing that I need God,
that I need to embrace God because without having him,
I'm a dead man.
Speaker 1 (44:14):
It works, you know. I love what God said.
Speaker 2 (44:16):
The apostle Paul wrote thirteen books out of the Bible,
a pretty spiritual guy, and he said, I had all
these incredible experiences. I had spiritual what they call those
things that appendix to revelations, and all that stuff and experiences,
and he said, he said, listen, I can't even explain
the incredible things I had to make. But I'm not
(44:38):
going to talk about that. I'm not going to talk
about what happened to me all. I'm going to talk
about my defects. Because God tells me that my power
is made perfect in your weakness. Then when you're weak,
I'm strong. And God gave me this horrible He never
says what it is. I love the way he puts
it because it's so much to do with alcoholics. He
(44:58):
gave me a foreign in my flat. He gave me
something that Paul never says what it is. You know,
it could have been pedophilia. It could have been alcoholism.
It could have been you know, I want to get
with that woman or something like that.
Speaker 1 (45:11):
He never says.
Speaker 2 (45:12):
Now, of course, real religious people think it's near sightedness.
Paul describes it as a messenger from Satan. I don't
think it's near sighted this. I think there was something
really bothering him, you know, he says.
Speaker 1 (45:25):
He says, he asked God to remove it. He prayed,
like we're.
Speaker 2 (45:28):
Supposed to to get you know what God said to him.
He said to keep you from becoming conceited. I will
not take it from you. You're gonna be living them
with this until the.
Speaker 1 (45:39):
Day you die.
Speaker 2 (45:40):
But my grace and my love will allow you to
overcome this. And so I rather think, like the apostle Paul,
that I'm still a sinner. I'm still defective. I still
want to get rid of these things and get closer
and closer to God. But I've still oh got him,
(46:00):
and I'll probably have him until day I die. I said,
But that's okay. At least I admit him to myself.
I admit to myself I have them.
Speaker 1 (46:08):
And I'm not spirit You won't catch me saying I'm spiritual.
I'm spiritual. Oh oh, you understand. Yeah, that's good. But
i'm I'm spiritual.
Speaker 2 (46:15):
Now.
Speaker 1 (46:15):
You don't catch my because I'm not.
Speaker 2 (46:18):
And if I keep on telling myself that, it's like
telling yourself you don't care what other people think about
It's like telling you stuff. If the first step in
getting out of jail is you got to know you're
in jail in the first place. Alcoholics for years tell
of themselves. I don't have a drinking problem. I don't
have a drinking problem. I don't have a drinking But
finally something happens is they say I got a drinking problem.
Speaker 1 (46:35):
You know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (46:37):
I don't want to keep on telling myself I'm spiritual,
not religious. I'm spiritual, you know. I mean, I do
a lot of stuff that looks spiritual. I go to church,
I like him, I talk about the Lord. I do
all that sort of stuff. But I just like Bill Wilson,
I got them worldly clavers.
Speaker 1 (46:52):
I gotta watch.
Speaker 2 (46:52):
I gotta put it on the fore arm of God
every day because there's always something around the corner, you know,
that's looking to pound me and just realizing that.
Speaker 1 (47:05):
I don't know whether that's.
Speaker 2 (47:07):
Humility or not, But I know I do a lot
better with people and with life and with myself and
how I express myself. If I understand, I'm still broken
and I still need help, and I can't claim anything,
you know, Bill Wilson said. In the Golden Text, he said,
the Lord has been so wonderful to me, cured me
of ta turring me and taking from me this terrible disease.
(47:31):
I got to keep talking about him and telling other people.
It's called the Golden Text. And what Bob Dogson said,
he said Bill was very grateful with sobriety. He gave
God all credit for everything. You know, It's much better.
Speaker 1 (47:44):
For me to say, I give the Lord all credit
for anything that ever happened to me.
Speaker 2 (47:49):
I take no credit whatsoever, you know what I mean,
It's all God's credit. Then for me to tell you, oh, yeah,
I go to a lot of meetings, I'm spiritual, you
know what I mean, I just can't. I what happens
if I start believing it? What happens if I start
believing that I've risen to some point where like my
(48:12):
shit don't stink, where I'm just like a.
Speaker 1 (48:14):
Guru or something like that. What what if I start
believing it? I don't have to go to meetings.
Speaker 2 (48:20):
I don't need God, I don't need the sponsor people
I don't need to talk to. I mean, just think
of what would happened to me if I actually believe that, you.
Speaker 1 (48:28):
Know, I mean, it's it's that kind of that kind
of thing.
Speaker 2 (48:31):
And and and to not believe it lend up with
me hurting people and telling myself it's okay to hurt
people because I'm spiritual and I know what I'm doing,
and I don't have to make amends or humble myself
or stuff like that.
Speaker 1 (48:49):
You know, what, what kind of what what? What?
Speaker 2 (48:51):
How is that going to help me to get to
the next year or the next year or the next year.
So humility is very important. But what's as important as
humility is understanding truly who and what you are, and
who and what God is, and how far you fall
short from that deal. And so that's how it works
in my life. Now, That's how That's how all this
(49:15):
stuff works.
Speaker 1 (49:15):
In my life. Now.
Speaker 2 (49:16):
It keeps me, It keeps me small, keeps me right size.
Speaker 1 (49:22):
I go to all these conventions and I get to.
Speaker 2 (49:24):
Talk to a lot of people, you know, and and
I love doing it because I love you know why
I love doing it because I don't talk about myself.
Speaker 1 (49:35):
I talk about God. The only thing, you know what
I talk about myself.
Speaker 2 (49:39):
I talk about how fucked up I am.
Speaker 1 (49:43):
You know, I go to conventions. I you know what
I talk about.
Speaker 2 (49:47):
I talk about how screwed up I am now and
forever and how incredible God is. Is that crazy? That's
the craziest thing when you think about it. You just
to be able to brag on yourself or something, you know.
That's why I like it because I get to talk
about like it was. I Saidator, the Lord has been
some want with me, showing me a selbleseas guy, and
(50:07):
I keep talking about him, acknowledging him and telling other people.
I got to tell other people about what's going on.
I think that's literature. I think that's legitimate. Not to
talk so much about yourself, but talk about what God
has allowed you to do and how God has And
that was John Glenn, by the way, that was John Glenn.
Speaker 1 (50:29):
Everything was about God, what God.
Speaker 2 (50:30):
Done for him, gun from you know, and that's the deal.
Speaker 1 (50:35):
So thank you very much,
My name is Russell Spats. I'm an alcoholic.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
I haven't found that served during since January twenty fifth,
nineteen eighty one, in my forty fifth year.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
It's good to be here with y'all. Sure a little
bit about my experience, strength and hope and some other things.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
And I'm just going to try to be as transparent
as I possibly can tell you a little bit about
my life and what I've learned over the last forty five.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
Years regarding this.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
Program of recovery that's been around four thousands of years.
Agree frankly, but that's my opinion. So most of the
stuff I'm going to share is going to have to
do with me in my life and my experience and.
Speaker 1 (00:42):
The experience that I've seen of other people. You know,
you know you you know.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
It's like that Farmer's commercial, I a little bit commercial
where that guy says, we know a lot because we've
seen a lot. You know.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
It's one thing to think you know or believe you understand.
Speaker 2 (00:59):
It's nothing to watch things happen over a period of time.
Speaker 1 (01:03):
And so I've learned a lot of stuff.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
I supposedly I don't call these step talks anymore.
Speaker 1 (01:11):
Because I'm all over the place.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
But I'd like to think that whatever I have to
say has something to do with some steps and last
we're really on so like an eight to nine thing
Connor right now, it did six and seven last week,
although I'm always talking about six and seven, then the
grown up steps, then the old timer's steps, and that
really keeps on.
Speaker 1 (01:33):
They keep on going. So but in talking about eight,
I just seven. You know, eight and nine. I wanted
to delve into a little into something we talked about
last week.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
I probably even read this last week, going to read
it again for reasons that I hope will become apparent
to you as this goes on, and maybe later on tonight.
This is the first chapter in step seven. This is
step seven humbly asked him, ask the Lord to remove
(02:09):
our shortcomings, of which I have quite a few since
This step so specifically concerns itself with humility. Humility isn't important.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
You know, humility. You might be familiar with this.
Speaker 2 (02:29):
That's the way we get a new perspective by repeated humiliations.
Speaker 1 (02:35):
It is not there's a connection there.
Speaker 2 (02:37):
The way we get humility is by repeated humiliations.
Speaker 1 (02:42):
That's not my plan of action.
Speaker 2 (02:45):
My plan was to be on a yacht with one
hundred Playboy bunnies and somehow gain ability. But apparently God,
apparently God knicks that plan. He wasn't into that deal,
you know what I mean, That was an old idea.
Apparently the way you get humility is by one hundred
forms of repeated humiliations and the final question of our
(03:07):
self sufficients.
Speaker 1 (03:08):
Doesn't sound like a fun deal to me. I don't know.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
But so if that hasn't happened to you yet, guess what.
He may not be done with you. You know, there
may be some more stuff coming on. So you know,
when you when you go home tonight and you get
a or tomorrow, you gotta call and you here the
irs seized all your bank accounts. You can say, oh,
this is the thing Russell was talking about. I thought
(03:35):
he was full of shit, and this is what he
was talking about. And then you'll say, thank you, Lord,
I thank you for the lesson.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
I appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (03:44):
Since this step so specifically concerns and self humility, we
should pause here to consider what humility is and what
the practice of it can mean to us. So I'm
gonna talk. I'm gonna talk a little bit about that
as in terms also what it has to do a
nine and how it's changed me. I'm not saying for
(04:07):
one second that I'm humble, because I'm not. But I
just want to talk about how humility can change you,
why it's important. And I think if you walk out
here have a little bit of a better understanding of
what humility is and what you have to go through
in order to gain it, and how it can help you.
Speaker 1 (04:27):
Out a lot. I think that would be a good thing.
Speaker 2 (04:31):
It says the attainment there, It says, indeed, the attainment
of greater humility. You know how, I'm very big on sentences,
not so much paragraphs.
Speaker 1 (04:43):
Too many paragraphs, you.
Speaker 2 (04:44):
Know, but I just take one sentence of your time. Indeed,
the attainment of greater humility. That means whatever the humility
you have, if you have any, it's good to attain
more humility, whatever that is. It's hard to how hard
to attain more humility if you don't know what humility
(05:05):
is in the first place. But do not fear, because
even if you are stupid and you don't know what
humility is, God's got a plan for you.
Speaker 1 (05:14):
I just want you to.
Speaker 2 (05:15):
Know you don't have to read a lie. You know,
you have to read the big Book backwards and forwards.
It isn't gonna give you a ship. Ain't gonna give
you any humility. The ain't gonna do give you any humility.
You twelve and twelve. You can memorize the steps. You
can do every step in the book.
Speaker 1 (05:30):
They ain't gonna give you aumility. But I want you
to trust me.
Speaker 2 (05:33):
God's going to dish it out to you. You're gonna
get it. You don't drink it, you don't die, you
don't find out all about humility. You'll probably find out
that humility even if you're drinking.
Speaker 1 (05:45):
So I want you.
Speaker 2 (05:45):
To I want you to know. I want you to
be able to recognize it when it's happening. You know,
some people don't recognize it when humility is happening. They
think so if they think it's a problem, it's not
a problem. You know. Indeed, the attainment of graduability is
the foundation, is the foundation principle of each base for
(06:06):
the steps that you know that that all the stats,
everyone including eight or nine, they.
Speaker 1 (06:12):
Have one thing in common is to get you more humble.
You get that now, if you've come to steps, and
they haven't worked that way and got you more humbled.
I don't know. Maybe you didn't do them right. Maybe
you got to do them some more, and maybe some
other things have to happen. I don't know.
Speaker 2 (06:31):
For without something where you reility, know, alcohol can stay sober,
can't stay.
Speaker 1 (06:36):
Sober at all.
Speaker 2 (06:39):
They at all near the old as have found two
that unless they develop much more of this precious quality
then may be required just for mere physical sobriety, they
still haven't much chance of becoming truly happy. So let
(07:02):
me ask this, what's the point of being sober if
you can't be happy?
Speaker 1 (07:07):
I mean, that made maybe some point, But what's the point,
you know, if you can't be happy?
Speaker 2 (07:14):
Uh? And then it says without it, they cannot live
too much useful purpose or in adversity be able to
summon the faith that can meet any emergency. So you see,
(07:34):
that's sound important this thing is, because you may find
I was just striving with Jimmy myrack over there, that's sponsible.
He's driving up here in my truck. I love my truck,
and we heard a knocking sound, you know, and the
engine life came on and I just spent like twenty
(07:55):
five hundred dollars in that truck, tune up and everything
like that, and he says, you know, what's that knocking sound?
Speaker 1 (08:02):
He's like a A categories, he says, in the engine
light thing on.
Speaker 2 (08:06):
And you know, I don't know when you consider that
an emergency, but in alcoholic terms, you have to spend
a bunch of money on a car and you're driving
up here and you're like, it's like if it didn't
and the engine like gooes.
Speaker 1 (08:18):
I so it's knocking in my life, I.
Speaker 2 (08:21):
Consider that a mini emergency. It probably wouldn't bother you, guys,
because your excellent in spiritual condition. But now I realize
that I'm talking to you, but I got to tell
you something. Now, it didn't bother me that much.
Speaker 1 (08:36):
It's the truth.
Speaker 2 (08:37):
You did buy it that much, but it's not, well,
it really didn't bother me that much. But I would
consider that something like that, there was a time or
something like that would just drive.
Speaker 1 (08:47):
Me nuts nuts crazy. So I think, so.
Speaker 2 (08:52):
That kind of stuff happens all the time, and you're like,
happens all the time? I said, matter of fact, I
think I had at least twelve emergencies like that just today,
just today. It's the truth. I just don't notice them.
Like when I was starting out to start this meeting,
(09:12):
I got a phone call.
Speaker 1 (09:14):
Did you my phone go on? There's playing.
Speaker 2 (09:16):
It's from my daughter who is up in some state
up north.
Speaker 1 (09:22):
I'm like South Caro. I don't know where it is.
But it's like I got a bunch of daughters. So
it's hard to keep cracking it.
Speaker 2 (09:29):
And it's THAT'SYC gonna be many emergency I'm a period.
My phone goes off, and I mean it may not
seem like a big thing to you, but when you're
an alcohol that's the kind of ship that will get
you drinking.
Speaker 1 (09:41):
You know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (09:42):
You know, the car going to the check check engine light,
and the phone going off, and maybe one other thing.
You know what I mean is stuff's kind of worldly, clamorous.
Speaker 1 (09:53):
It's terrible.
Speaker 2 (09:53):
So so what's the what's what? Is there a connection between?
There must be There must be. If all the steps
are connected, because they all have to do humility, then
the eighth step must have something to do with humility,
and the nice step that must have something to do
with does not make any sense. That's what That's the
only logic I have on this.
Speaker 1 (10:15):
What's the.
Speaker 2 (10:18):
What does humility have to do? This is a good
thing to talk about. This would be a good topic
at regular meanings. If they would talk about this kind
of stuff with regular meanings, it would be a good topic.
What's the connection? You know? People talk about the A
step nice step and I used to do this, you know,
and they talk about meantactically.
Speaker 1 (10:36):
How you do this?
Speaker 2 (10:37):
You know, I did this, I did that, you know,
film me so I made this amends it, but I
mean I made a list and they talk But what
is the connection between humility and the A step and
humility of the nice step? That might be something to
sort of talk about, you know, just for laughs and giggles.
So I think I'm going to talk about that a
(10:57):
little bit. So I I don't know the definition of humility.
It's not because I haven't looked it up. I've looked
it up over the last forty five I've looked it
up many times. I just don't understand that. I don't
get it. If you were to say to me, and
I got a bunch of time, and I've done a
lot of stuff, what's humility, I would say it's like
the supreme Court Justice says, what's pornography is?
Speaker 1 (11:19):
I don't know what pornography is, but I know when
I see it, you know what I mean? I don't know.
I know, I don't know what humility is. You know
what I mean?
Speaker 2 (11:30):
You know the guy is the old sort about the
guy who is being given the trophy on humility and
when he when he went up to get it, they
took it away from him. You know, is humility is
like a strange thing. But I will tell you this,
this is what I know. I know this absolutely. I
can tell you this. I've met humble people. I don't
(11:52):
claim it for myself, but I have actually met people
that have humility, that are humble, and I just sort
of knew they were humble. And I could tell you
the people that I met that were humble were very
attractive to me. They were very attractive to me, and
they were somehow different from me, and I could tell
(12:14):
that they had something that I wanted but I didn't have.
Speaker 1 (12:19):
I could tell that, and so I wanted to hang around.
I'll tell you something else.
Speaker 2 (12:24):
The people I met that had humility, most of the
other people that I knew wanted to hang around them too.
They just wanted to hang with them. They just wanted
to sit with them, you know what I mean. One
of the people I knew I had humility was a
guy named John Glenn, who was my third sponsor for
like twenty years, and he was a chaplain for the
(12:48):
prisoners in Detroit and jail and Detroit.
Speaker 1 (12:51):
He was a.
Speaker 2 (12:54):
Serious, serious man of religious man. Was he loved people,
you know, he loved Jesus. He was in that stuff.
And he was very quiet except when he was singing
in church. I know what his favorite hymns were. And
I loved hanging out with him, And so I didn't
(13:17):
have a definition of the ability. All I knew is
I wish i'd be like John Glenn. I'm not so
sure that isn't much different than.
Speaker 1 (13:26):
What we all do in here. I mean, even when
they talk about.
Speaker 2 (13:29):
The steps, the way they framed the steps, and you
think about it, is it may seem they tell us
about the steps or they and they do in the
twelve and twelve and you go to steps. But what
they really say, when you think about it, is, now
here's the sentence. Here's a sentence. Think about the scent.
If you want what we had and you're willing to
(13:54):
go to any length to get it, then you're ready
to take certain steps.
Speaker 1 (14:02):
Is enough. They don't say if you're bright enough to.
Speaker 2 (14:03):
Understand the word humility, or if you're smart enough to
know what we mean when we say personal inventory, they
don't say that. They say, if you want what we
have and you'll do anything to get it, then you're
ready to take. If you don't want what we have,
or you do, but you're not willing to got any
lith to get it, then it doesn't matter how smart
(14:24):
you are, you're not going to get it.
Speaker 1 (14:27):
That's that's the basic ingredient.
Speaker 2 (14:29):
To find somebody that has something you want and that
you'll go to any length to get it. And and
when you then you're ready to take whatever that step
is or whatever you're supposed to do.
Speaker 1 (14:44):
And it'll take a fact. It'll take a fact. Uh.
Speaker 2 (14:49):
You know, maybe if you don't want we have and
you just sort of do it with the guns your head,
or you do it, just get through.
Speaker 1 (14:54):
It, maybe it'll work. I don't know. I can't.
Speaker 2 (14:57):
I don't know everybody in AA, but I know in
coming up the ranks, a lot of my deal was
wanting what my sponsors had or wanting what other people had,
and I'm not sure whether I don't have the power
to put that desire in people. You know, the only
power I've been given it it's not even a power,
(15:18):
is the ability to try to be transparent to people.
Speaker 1 (15:21):
With other people as to what worked for me. I
can do that.
Speaker 2 (15:27):
I imagine there we had people who would seventeen years
and thirty one years and all these people, I imagine that
if we sat down with them, they were very honest,
and I'm sure they would try to be and transparent.
They would talk about the people in their lives that
made a difference.
Speaker 1 (15:40):
They wouldn't say.
Speaker 2 (15:40):
Well I got this or I got that, or I
got this or I got that look at me or
something like that. They probably say things like, well, I
had a sponsor named John. I'll never forget I got
this guy right. So they talk about people in their
lives that made a difference. And part of that difference
might have been these people were And I used to
(16:01):
drink in bars, and I'm a drunk. I'm an alcohol
and alcoholics are not humble. I'm not even sure when
I was drinking. I'm not even sure when I was drinking.
I ever in my entire life, drunk or sober. Ever,
(16:22):
even I don't think the thought ever crossed my life.
How can I get more humble?
Speaker 1 (16:32):
I mean, I'm serious, I would think, well, I.
Speaker 2 (16:34):
Wish I could did that blonde or why on that
red edder? Maybe if I get a new car. The
only thing Proust in my mind is how I could
be more noticed, you know what I mean, Get more attention,
get back out, get more money, get bigger, have people.
Speaker 1 (16:52):
I never thought about getting humble, and yet every one
of these steps talks about getting humble.
Speaker 2 (17:03):
So what happens if you get to the end of
the steps and you're still thinking about cars? I mean,
I hate this is like a sentence. I just threw
out a sentence to you. I'm just saying. I'm just saying,
you know, sometimes the brush clears up and you think
of things you never threw up before. I don't think
I ever said that in my life up to that.
(17:26):
What happens if you get to the end of the
steps and you're still thinking about life and about yourself
the way you thought about life and yourself.
Speaker 1 (17:35):
When you're eighteen years old? Did the steps? Really? If
you say I did the steps or I did, the
big book doesn't really have any meaning. Have you really
done the steps?
Speaker 2 (17:45):
Or if whatever you did that you thought of the
steps didn't have the actual effect.
Speaker 1 (17:50):
Of what the steps you're supposed to do.
Speaker 2 (17:53):
I mean, what if you do the steps perfectly and
you come out the other end of the exactly the
way you went in.
Speaker 1 (18:03):
Thinking about the same.
Speaker 2 (18:04):
Things, worrying about the same things, all that sort of stuff.
What does that mean did you actually do the steps?
Is there's maybe there was something.
Speaker 1 (18:12):
Missing, you know, I don't know. I don't know.
Speaker 2 (18:17):
So that's why I want to talk a little bit
about humility. So I told this story, and I think
most of you people don't.
Speaker 1 (18:24):
I don't really know.
Speaker 2 (18:24):
I think most people here have heard a lot of
my stories, and I think I've told the story during
my you know, one of the meetings I did before this,
and they've will been recorded so yet. Even but I
think I told the story about my first marriage to
my first wife. I might, I might sort of go
in if there's I don't know whether there's anybody here
(18:46):
who hasn't heard the story, But I'm going to go
into it again and add a little something to it
because I think it's important regarding the eighth step, the
ninth step becoming.
Speaker 1 (18:56):
Transparent, being honest, and.
Speaker 2 (18:58):
Developing some sort of humility, because it's greatly affected my life.
It's greatly affected my life in a good way. In
a painful way, but in a good way. And So
I saw this girl when I was nineteen twenty twenty
(19:18):
one or something, and I said, Man.
Speaker 1 (19:21):
If I could get that girl, i'd be okay. And
your alcoholics like me.
Speaker 2 (19:26):
One of the things I realize is that if I've
had if I'm an alcoholic, and if I've had a
thought and you're an alcoholic, you probably have the same
thought because we may look differently, but we basically that's
the only reason AA works is because we think the same.
You know, I mean, how many times those person have
Coppetune says you were talking about me?
Speaker 1 (19:43):
You know, it doesn't matter. We think we have the
same thought patterns.
Speaker 2 (19:47):
You know, very few people walk out of amy and
say I don't understand what they were talking about.
Speaker 1 (19:51):
You know what I mean?
Speaker 2 (19:52):
I mean, you say, man, these people understand me. You're
talking about me. So I said to myself, Now, I
don't care who these see. If I only have that car,
I'd be okay. If I only had money, I'd be okay.
Speaker 1 (20:03):
If I was only fifty pounds later, I'd be okay.
I don't give a crap.
Speaker 2 (20:06):
You're always the grouche and based on you've always got
a great idea of what's gonna make you okay, and
it all and it never has anything to do with
your ability. Oh man, if I could only be more humble, Oh.
Speaker 1 (20:18):
Yeah, it's a ticket. Man.
Speaker 2 (20:21):
It's always if I got to have that guy, if
I have that girl, if I can have sex, if
I can make money.
Speaker 1 (20:27):
But it's always that stuff, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (20:30):
And you know that's what you think of when you're
like thirteen years old and maybe Playboy or eighteen years old,
or you know, watching TV or nineteen years old or
twenty years old.
Speaker 1 (20:41):
When you're a young man or a young woman, you think.
Speaker 2 (20:43):
About what would you want that would make you fantastic.
Speaker 1 (20:49):
It's all vanity stuff.
Speaker 2 (20:51):
You know.
Speaker 1 (20:51):
It's all dyeing your hair or getting a different.
Speaker 2 (20:55):
Suit or dress, or it's all about making yourself, like
being a peak and making yourself look better tot other
people and worried about what they're saying, engaging yourself next
to other people. That's what it's all about. That's what
it's all about for years. And I'll tell you something else,
a little secret I've seen. I don't know if you've
seen this. After you get sober, that's sort of like
(21:17):
the way it is for the next thirty years. That's
sort of like the way it is for the next
twenty thirty years. And so you're sober, but not really.
You understand you're sober, but you're not really sober.
Speaker 1 (21:32):
You're just physically sober. But hell, you're having so much
fun in AA. We all meet, We all like each other,
you know, we.
Speaker 2 (21:39):
All laugh, We go to restaurants afterwards, we have conventions
and shit. Let we get so in love with the
fellowship about faults anonymous and the fact that we're different
that we found are like home and our little cult,
you know, and our little dealer, you know.
Speaker 1 (21:53):
And so it's so happy.
Speaker 2 (21:54):
We don't even realize that we're really not that much
different than when we were eighteen years old, are we.
It's always checking the bank account, checking the way, get
them on scale, you know, you know, getting the surgery,
you know, whatever it is, whatever you need in order
to find a viagra. It's all about It's all about
(22:15):
that stuff, isn't it.
Speaker 1 (22:16):
You know? I mean, you know, so that sort of deal,
and that goes on and on and.
Speaker 2 (22:24):
So it's a puzzlement to alcoholics as to why when
they have ten years or seventeen years or thirty one years,
why they still have serious problems that they don't feel
so good. You know, they can't understand how come they're
not feeling better now.
Speaker 1 (22:42):
They may get being distracted.
Speaker 2 (22:44):
They may be at an a meaning, they maybe be
listening to a speaker, good speaking, and they may feel good.
They say, man, that was great, but eventually the ism
comes back and they're lowly again and not feeling good,
and they can't quite understand because what a becomes, which
in the beginning is great in the beginning.
Speaker 1 (23:05):
So it's so important in the beginning. Screw getting humble
is so important in the beginning. To not drink.
Speaker 2 (23:13):
I mean, I'm telling you, I may put down that
don't drink and go to meetings and that kind of crowd,
but I'm JUSTLM. If I didn't, if I didn't stop
the drinking, it was constantly stopped. Don't drink, you know,
don't have resemblance If that wasn't like pounded into me,
I would have never made it to forty or thirty
or twenty or anything.
Speaker 1 (23:32):
So it's so important.
Speaker 2 (23:34):
But what happens is we end up thinking really that
what this whole thing is.
Speaker 1 (23:41):
Well, it's like James just got out of prison. It's
like a prison sentence.
Speaker 2 (23:47):
It's like it's like we slap on AA in the
steps and the fellowship and the sponsors, like you would
put band aid on a wound.
Speaker 1 (24:00):
You got the escaping wounds. So you go to a
you put a band data on it, and.
Speaker 2 (24:03):
You're okay for a few hours and then and then
you know you're rip off the scab or something like that,
where it's like.
Speaker 1 (24:11):
Taking an aspirin. Going to meetings is like taking a drug.
Speaker 2 (24:15):
I'm not putting down going to meetings, but that's what
ends up being. It's a temporary Going to meetings is
a temporary fix. Everything we do in here is a
temporary fix.
Speaker 1 (24:29):
You know how. I know it's temporary because if you.
Speaker 2 (24:31):
Stop doing it, you end up drinking and going prazy.
It's a temporary Nothing is permanent in here, you understand,
that's the deal.
Speaker 1 (24:40):
Nothing is permanent. It's a temporary fix.
Speaker 2 (24:43):
Which is probably why when we rest our laurels and
we got a lot of time, we get to read
the we get to wear those gold battalions around our
next with thirty years and after we get all that in Rappabeta,
it's probably a lot of people drinking it. We're not
doing well because they think they obtained something that they've changed,
(25:04):
that they've that.
Speaker 1 (25:05):
They're no longer alcoholic.
Speaker 2 (25:07):
They're no longer really they're what's the words, They're spiritual,
not religious, like a different type of human being, you know,
like no longer an alcoholic, sort of like a little
bit below the angels, but.
Speaker 1 (25:25):
Above like normal people, you know what I mean. You know,
that's that sort of thing. So we have that sort
of like humility where we're humble, but we.
Speaker 2 (25:34):
Really think we're better than most people, you know what
I mean, And would be really better than most people
if we had a new Jaguar or something like that
new car, you know, that kind of deal, right, so
so so so getting back to my marriage, so I
meant this when I said, if I could only.
Speaker 1 (25:52):
Have that gal, I'd be okay.
Speaker 2 (25:54):
Now I'm I'm as short of the story makes us,
you know, sinuated myself with their life. I did whatever
I had to do and I ended up getting married her.
She's very nice, sweet GwL. We had a baby, we
had a house in Miami Beach, and within six months,
I was hanging out in the bar, was looking at
other women.
Speaker 1 (26:11):
That's what I was doing.
Speaker 2 (26:13):
And I wasn't even thinking that my wife's at home
waiting for dinner with the baby, and I never showed up.
And she put up with that for four and a
half years. And I did that for four and a
half years. And for four and a half years, as
I was doing that, it never occurred to me that
I was doing anything wrong, anything wrong, And I never
(26:35):
cheated on my wife.
Speaker 1 (26:35):
And as a matter of fact, I thought I was
very proud of.
Speaker 2 (26:37):
Myself because I think guys were cheating and I said
I won't do that. I'd said I won't do that
because I'm a man of integrity, But really I was
chicken shit.
Speaker 1 (26:46):
I was scared.
Speaker 2 (26:47):
I didn't have the guts to cheat on my wife,
but I would just stay there and ignore her.
Speaker 1 (26:52):
You know, I don't know whether that's ever happened to you.
Speaker 2 (26:56):
You know, I don't know whether that's ever happened to you.
Where you know, somebody travel, I just sort of ignores you,
for it's a very painful thing to put on anybody
in any of that. One day she said, you come,
I'm drunk one more time.
Speaker 1 (27:08):
I'm leaving you. You know that's the sentence. I didn't
understand it. I said, what does she mean, my dad?
Speaker 2 (27:13):
Because it's one of those sentences that you don't really
understand it, even though an idiot would understand it, But
you don't understand it because you're too bright to understand
what does that mean?
Speaker 1 (27:24):
Then I came home drunk.
Speaker 2 (27:26):
I told that whole story, and she kicked me out
of house, and that's the end of my marriage. I
lost my house, my wife, and everything so here. And
if you asked me what I did wrong, I didn't
think I did anything wrong with just different people going
from different things. And I discarded my wife so I
could go out with other women. That's what I did.
And the reason I did that is because in my life,
(27:49):
the only thing I cared about is myself. I didn't
care about anybody else, which I think now I'm pretty
sure about. This has something to do with self centeredness.
It says selfishness, self centeredness, that's what that's the root
of our trouble, you know, driven by one hundred forms
of fear of self. We step on those brothers, they retaliate,
(28:09):
sem'll not regret. But we've learned, we've made decisions based
upon self, which puts us in position to be heard.
So that alcoholic isself over right though we used to
us and think so so so.
Speaker 1 (28:19):
For me to hurt people.
Speaker 2 (28:23):
And not even realizing I'm hurting people, or how about this,
I could hurt people? How about this one? This is
what my sponsors said to me. This, don't get a
sponsor like this. I had mean spot. I could hurt
other people and not give us shit. You ever hurt
anybody and not give a ship or at least tell
(28:45):
yourself you don't care. They deserved it, it's their fault
or something like that. It's because I'm a selfish, self centeredself.
Speaker 1 (28:53):
So here's the deal.
Speaker 2 (28:54):
So when you get divorced, I had I had a
son and he was like six years old, seven years old,
and I get and you get the worse. I don't
know how many people have ever been divorced. I got custody,
you know, time sharing custom thing, and I would get
him like on you know, every other Saturday or Sunday
or something in that. So I told my son, I said,
we're gonna go to the zoo next week, and he
(29:16):
said really, He says, yeah, I'm gonna take you to zoo.
And I felt real good about that. And I really
intended to take him to zoo. But what happens. That
was gonna be on Saturday. But on Friday I went
to the bar and I met a gown named Susie.
Is one good, good looking gown, you know. And the
next morning my son was waiting for him to take
(29:38):
him to the zoo, and Susie called me and she said,
Russell the girls, which means more than one girl, the girls.
Speaker 1 (29:49):
This is a string of sentences.
Speaker 2 (29:52):
So don't lose me, all right, going out on the
boat today, girls on a boat, you know what I mean.
It's a sentence, and we'd like you to come along.
So I want to tell you them, that's a sentence.
A guy like me can read a lot of shit
into Let me tell you something. It just fires my imagination,
(30:13):
you know what I mean. That's a worldly clomber that
knocks God out of the picture. He was never in
the picture, knocks my son out of the picture. So
I have this debate. I said, my son is waiting
for him and take him to the zoo, and this
gala is saying, let's go out of the boat. And
I'm having this incredibly difficult debate with myself. Do I
(30:39):
like blow off my son, which would be the wrong
thing to do, But do I go with the girls
on the boat and you know, I have fun, maybe
have sex, strength and all that sort of stuff, you.
Speaker 1 (30:49):
Know what I mean. And I must have struggled with
that for all of like what a nanosecond.
Speaker 3 (30:56):
Right, and it was anchors away now now you know,
of course, you know I called up my son and
I explained why I couldn't make it.
Speaker 1 (31:10):
No, that's something you guys would do because you're much
more highly you're you're, you're, you're, you're at a higher
level of spirituality.
Speaker 2 (31:17):
I just left and never called him, and he I'll
stop that shit. Don't be doing that crap. Don't do
that to me, don't I don't need that. I've made
amends to my son, you know, pray me not enough.
Speaker 1 (31:33):
But I'm still making it. Okay, we talk, I love
him and everything like that.
Speaker 2 (31:37):
But I mean, but you get but I'm glad you
did that because you you because the women that did that,
and maybe there's even a guy out there did that
who said, oh my god, I mean you're you have
a feeling deep out down inside as to what an
asshole I was.
Speaker 1 (31:57):
But that's me. That's what it is.
Speaker 2 (32:00):
That's what alcoholism looks like in me. Now here's the
problem is. Now, by the way, if you're going to
live a life like that, you're going to drink.
Speaker 1 (32:11):
You have to drink.
Speaker 2 (32:13):
You must drink, otherwise you blow your fucking brains out,
you kill yourself, you hate yourself.
Speaker 1 (32:20):
You gotta drink.
Speaker 2 (32:20):
But you know, there's no amount of drinking if you
are constitutionally and you know what they say, those who
don't make it are constitutionally incapable of being.
Speaker 1 (32:31):
Rigorously honest with themselves.
Speaker 2 (32:34):
Now, I had a little bit of an argument, not
as much as argued discussion with Jim, and really had
to do with a theological discussion. But you've got in none,
you know, help people come to God, things like that.
And I said, apparently, according to the Big Book, this
has to do with Calvinism.
Speaker 1 (32:50):
I'm noting this thing.
Speaker 2 (32:51):
There are some people that are constantly capable of getting it.
You know, I see that in AA. I think that
sort of like A sort of takes that stance. The
apparently it looks like there are people that, no matter
what happens, they're just constantially incapable of being offso for themselves.
And we run into him and AA said, we don't understand,
how come this guy can't happen?
Speaker 1 (33:10):
This guy can't do it. On the other hand, we.
Speaker 2 (33:13):
Never make a judgment against people because we know that
no matter how screwed up they can get, they can
actually make it. So you can't sort of like give
them and say, well, that guy can't get But it's true.
It seems that some people just cannot get it that
constantly capable, and there are some people that are capable,
and maybe after twenty years they capable of they're capable.
Speaker 1 (33:34):
So we treat everybody like thinking make it.
Speaker 2 (33:37):
And so the deal is is I'm you know, apparently
it looks like that. At one point in time, when
I was thirty one years old, I got.
Speaker 1 (33:47):
On my knees and I did something. I gave my
life to God.
Speaker 2 (33:53):
And apparently it's lasted for quite a few years now,
and it's gotten stronger.
Speaker 1 (33:58):
But let me tell you what the problem is.
Speaker 2 (34:00):
When you have a conscious, a conscience, and you can
be conscious and you can increase your conscience conscience relationship
with God. You know the eleven step nine. And you
got what happens even when you're a total piece of
crap like I was back then, and you did that
to people deep down everybody. You ever see the portrait,
(34:21):
ever see the movie The Portrait of Dorian Gray. You
may tell yourself all sorts of shit, but deep down
inside there's a little portrait of yourself and there's a
big black mark on it. You know what a piece
of crap you are? You know how you know you
know what a piece of crap you are because when
you're driving in your car and you haven't done anything wrong,
(34:46):
and all of a sudden you're having a conversation and
you're hearing somebody say to you, you're such a loser,
You're such a piece of crap. You want to kill yourself.
You're never going to be okay, You're just a piece
of crap. And you're constantly you have one part of
you telling you the greatest person the world and you're fantastic,
and you got another voice telling.
Speaker 1 (35:03):
You a piece of crap. You want to kill yourself.
You're never gonna be okay.
Speaker 2 (35:08):
That's every time you left your son waiting for you.
It's still deep down inside and only you know it.
That's not something coming from venus. You know that's your
actual reputation with yourself, because you cannot be dishonest for
a total period of time, forever about the crap you've pilled, you've.
Speaker 1 (35:29):
Pulled, and it's a horrible, horrible way to live.
Speaker 2 (35:34):
And so when you're an ego maniac with it without
an inferiority company, well, if you're an egomaniac, you're probably
going to have an inferiority flex if it's all about
you and your ego. And that's the whole thing, which
apparently true with alcoholics. You understand you're gonna hurt a.
Speaker 1 (35:49):
Lot of people. You're gonna lord over people.
Speaker 2 (35:52):
No matter how many times you say to yourself you
don't care what other people think about you. You're gonna
be constantly somehow deep down inside, it's gonna bubble up
to the time what are they gonna think about me?
Speaker 1 (36:02):
And you?
Speaker 2 (36:02):
And you know something, you cannot handle self hatred, and
you can't handle people not likeking you.
Speaker 1 (36:12):
No matter how. But you drink, and you'll drink a lot.
Speaker 2 (36:15):
Eventually your liver and your kidneys will get you sobering
at and you'll be miserable and you'll be horrible, and
soon what you'll do is you'll find yourself drinking so
that you don't feel like the piece of shit, you
know what I mean. And you know what's gonna happen.
One of these days, You're gonna drink so you don't
(36:36):
feel like a piece of shit, and you're gonna feel
even worse. It's gonna have like an it's gonna it's
gonna actually make you feel even more sorry for yourself.
But the problem is, even if you can manage to
stop drinking and go into a and everything like that,
you're still gonna have those black marks inside of you
that are gonna have You're gonna have a wrestling match
(36:56):
with how crap you are.
Speaker 1 (36:58):
And it may not be so much conscious.
Speaker 2 (37:00):
You may not even understand what's going on, except maybe
for twenty years later when you look back and see
this is what was happening to me. You just feel
crappy about yourself and you feel like you're not good enough,
and you just feel horrible and just you're sober and
it's just not working for you, and you don't know
what the reason is why. And you know something, for
many years I did terrible things to people. Well, I
(37:24):
just told you about two terrible things I did to Why.
I just told you about something I did to my
son and something I did to my wife, And then
I told you.
Speaker 1 (37:32):
Now I'm telling you the story.
Speaker 2 (37:34):
But I don't want you to think for one second
that I would have told you the story what I
did with my wife and my son like three weeks
after it happened. I mean, I'm telling you like for
ten years, I didn't even realize, Well, I thought I
was okay. If you asked me why, I tell you
some sort of story that I believed. I have all
(37:54):
sorts of stories. Just look why I did this and
why it's okay, and you don't understand and and all
sort of stuff. You'd be surprised how much you can
bullshit yourself regarding being a good person instead of a
piece of crap.
Speaker 1 (38:12):
You'd be so so.
Speaker 2 (38:15):
In other words, let me tell you how bad, how
terrible this alcoholism is. If you've ever done anything like
what I'm saying to people and sitting here now you
realize what you did, and you realize it so much
that maybe you're either going.
Speaker 1 (38:29):
To make an amends, so you want to make an
amends or you happen in amends.
Speaker 2 (38:34):
Let me tell you something, there may be some other
shit that you don't even realize you have right now.
You may not be as good as you think you are.
There may be some sid I know you did your
aig something yet you may have you may not be
perfect yet. There may be some other stuff that you'll
(38:55):
figure out twenty years from now or ten years now
going on your life, which is why you're not feeling
as good as you could be feeling that maybe have
some stuff and stuff going on, and you may not
realize it for five years because we have a way
of covering things up and saying, look at how I'm doing.
I got I got my seventeen year medallion, I got
my I'm in my forty fifth year. I mean, I'm
(39:19):
so there was a time. There was a time when
I used to say to myself, like everybody says, and
you probably said, and there's nothing wrong with this, It's
okay because it says do not conform yourself, you know,
to the world, but be transformed. That's a sentence. Okay,
(39:40):
do not conform yourself day now. The important thing is
it's important to conform yourself day as far as not drinking,
going beans, going to all that stuff and do what
they do, but don't use necessarily the people in AA.
Speaker 1 (39:52):
After you get sober.
Speaker 2 (39:56):
As what you want to attain and know higher, you
may want to find the John Glenns. You may want
to find those people that are not drinking and going
to means, but they got something.
Speaker 1 (40:10):
You don't have.
Speaker 2 (40:11):
Where you want what they have and you when we
go anything, they forget it and you don't have it.
Speaker 1 (40:15):
It has something called humility.
Speaker 2 (40:18):
You know you got because you're gonna be compan to
hang around with and what you want and if all
you want is what we have in well, people's anonymous
here hundreds and thousands of people that are wearing medallions
that have their their year of sobriety on it and
saying isn't this great? We're all in the wonderful cult
(40:38):
of alcoholics Anonymous. You may find yourself in the same
position Bill Wilson found himself in when he was funny
one years sober and like, you know, almost suicidal because
you're resting on your laurels and you're heading for trouble
and you don't realize there's more you can have.
Speaker 1 (40:58):
So you're doing with the outside the exact opposite.
Speaker 2 (41:01):
Of the sixth step. You're settling. You may find out
you're hurting people and you're hurting yourself, and you're doing
things and you don't even realize it because you think
you're okay because you're sober fax number of years.
Speaker 1 (41:13):
So how does this fit into humility or any of
this stuff? And I, for the most part, I did
all the list, I did all this stuff.
Speaker 2 (41:19):
I don't you know, I don't you know, man, I
haven't found I figured out something that if you don't
hurt people and say bad things to.
Speaker 1 (41:28):
People, you don't have to make amends. Did you know that?
Speaker 2 (41:32):
You know, for those of you who don't like making
amends and constantly feeling guilty and all.
Speaker 1 (41:35):
Sort of stuff, if you don't do stupid shit, you
don't have to make amends.
Speaker 2 (41:38):
I'm just telling you, but I did something stupid the
other day and it was killing me.
Speaker 1 (41:44):
I said, oh my god, I hate this shit.
Speaker 2 (41:47):
You know what I mean?
Speaker 1 (41:49):
I shouldn't decide I said something. I said something, I
said something cruel to somebody because I was trying to
be funny and it wasn't funny at all. It was cool,
you know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (42:00):
So apparently I'm still I have the scenes of I'm
still Apparently Apparently I haven't totally grown out of being
an asshole.
Speaker 1 (42:10):
So what is this? So lo it is me? Let
me get right down to the deal.
Speaker 2 (42:16):
I stopped saying many years ago, maybe ten years ago,
that I'm spiritual not religious, because something came over me
where I realized that I'm not spiritual, that the honest
truth is I'm a carnal man.
Speaker 1 (42:34):
That means I love the things of this world.
Speaker 2 (42:39):
My head can be turned around by good looking woman,
by a car, by money. Listen, when you spend time
worrying about money, and you spend time thinking about things,
and you spend time thinking about material stuff and everything
like that, you can't lie to yourself and say I'm
like spiritual because you're not spiritual.
Speaker 1 (43:02):
You know what I mean, They're not spiritual.
Speaker 2 (43:05):
But there's a great relief in my life by letting
myself know that although I'm.
Speaker 1 (43:17):
Not sinless, but I sin less.
Speaker 2 (43:19):
You know what I mean that I've changed, You understand
I don't put down the change, But I don't think
of myself as spiritual. I think of myself as a
person that's still I'm not saying just as sick as
when I walked in here or anything like that, but
still a man that absolutely needs the Lord's help and
(43:39):
needs to be close to God, needs to embrace God
because I have not risen to a point where I'm
okay that I still can be dishonest and I can
still hurt people.
Speaker 1 (43:53):
And I can tell you for me.
Speaker 2 (43:55):
But do you believe it or not? Logically it works
better to well, you may say, well, that's terrible to
think of yourself as the center. Think of yourself think.
Let me tell you something for me. It works better
to wake up in the morning knowing that I need God,
that I need to embrace God because without having him,
I'm a dead man.
Speaker 1 (44:14):
It works, you know. I love what God said.
Speaker 2 (44:16):
The apostle Paul wrote thirteen books out of the Bible,
a pretty spiritual guy, and he said, I had all
these incredible experiences. I had spiritual what they call those
things that appendix to revelations, and all that stuff and experiences,
and he said, he said, listen, I can't even explain
the incredible things I had to make. But I'm not
(44:38):
going to talk about that. I'm not going to talk
about what happened to me all. I'm going to talk
about my defects. Because God tells me that my power
is made perfect in your weakness. Then when you're weak,
I'm strong. And God gave me this horrible He never
says what it is. I love the way he puts
it because it's so much to do with alcoholics. He
(44:58):
gave me a foreign in my flat. He gave me
something that Paul never says what it is. You know,
it could have been pedophilia. It could have been alcoholism.
It could have been you know, I want to get
with that woman or something like that.
Speaker 1 (45:11):
He never says.
Speaker 2 (45:12):
Now, of course, real religious people think it's near sightedness.
Paul describes it as a messenger from Satan. I don't
think it's near sighted this. I think there was something
really bothering him, you know, he says.
Speaker 1 (45:25):
He says, he asked God to remove it. He prayed,
like we're.
Speaker 2 (45:28):
Supposed to to get you know what God said to him.
He said to keep you from becoming conceited. I will
not take it from you. You're gonna be living them
with this until the.
Speaker 1 (45:39):
Day you die.
Speaker 2 (45:40):
But my grace and my love will allow you to
overcome this. And so I rather think, like the apostle Paul,
that I'm still a sinner. I'm still defective. I still
want to get rid of these things and get closer
and closer to God. But I've still oh got him,
(46:00):
and I'll probably have him until day I die. I said,
But that's okay. At least I admit him to myself.
I admit to myself I have them.
Speaker 1 (46:08):
And I'm not spirit You won't catch me saying I'm spiritual.
I'm spiritual. Oh oh, you understand. Yeah, that's good. But
i'm I'm spiritual.
Speaker 2 (46:15):
Now.
Speaker 1 (46:15):
You don't catch my because I'm not.
Speaker 2 (46:18):
And if I keep on telling myself that, it's like
telling yourself you don't care what other people think about
It's like telling you stuff. If the first step in
getting out of jail is you got to know you're
in jail in the first place. Alcoholics for years tell
of themselves. I don't have a drinking problem. I don't
have a drinking problem. I don't have a drinking But
finally something happens is they say I got a drinking problem.
Speaker 1 (46:35):
You know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (46:37):
I don't want to keep on telling myself I'm spiritual,
not religious. I'm spiritual, you know. I mean, I do
a lot of stuff that looks spiritual. I go to church,
I like him, I talk about the Lord. I do
all that sort of stuff. But I just like Bill Wilson,
I got them worldly clavers.
Speaker 1 (46:52):
I gotta watch.
Speaker 2 (46:52):
I gotta put it on the fore arm of God
every day because there's always something around the corner, you know,
that's looking to pound me and just realizing that.
Speaker 1 (47:05):
I don't know whether that's.
Speaker 2 (47:07):
Humility or not, But I know I do a lot
better with people and with life and with myself and
how I express myself. If I understand, I'm still broken
and I still need help, and I can't claim anything,
you know, Bill Wilson said. In the Golden Text, he said,
the Lord has been so wonderful to me, cured me
of ta turring me and taking from me this terrible disease.
(47:31):
I got to keep talking about him and telling other people.
It's called the Golden Text. And what Bob Dogson said,
he said Bill was very grateful with sobriety. He gave
God all credit for everything. You know, It's much better.
Speaker 1 (47:44):
For me to say, I give the Lord all credit
for anything that ever happened to me.
Speaker 2 (47:49):
I take no credit whatsoever, you know what I mean,
It's all God's credit. Then for me to tell you, oh, yeah,
I go to a lot of meetings, I'm spiritual, you
know what I mean, I just can't. I what happens
if I start believing it? What happens if I start
believing that I've risen to some point where like my
(48:12):
shit don't stink, where I'm just like a.
Speaker 1 (48:14):
Guru or something like that. What what if I start
believing it? I don't have to go to meetings.
Speaker 2 (48:20):
I don't need God, I don't need the sponsor people
I don't need to talk to. I mean, just think
of what would happened to me if I actually believe that, you.
Speaker 1 (48:28):
Know, I mean, it's it's that kind of that kind
of thing.
Speaker 2 (48:31):
And and and to not believe it lend up with
me hurting people and telling myself it's okay to hurt
people because I'm spiritual and I know what I'm doing,
and I don't have to make amends or humble myself
or stuff like that.
Speaker 1 (48:49):
You know, what, what kind of what what? What?
Speaker 2 (48:51):
How is that going to help me to get to
the next year or the next year or the next year.
So humility is very important. But what's as important as
humility is understanding truly who and what you are, and
who and what God is, and how far you fall
short from that deal. And so that's how it works
in my life. Now, That's how That's how all this
(49:15):
stuff works.
Speaker 1 (49:15):
In my life. Now.
Speaker 2 (49:16):
It keeps me, It keeps me small, keeps me right size.
Speaker 1 (49:22):
I go to all these conventions and I get to.
Speaker 2 (49:24):
Talk to a lot of people, you know, and and
I love doing it because I love you know why
I love doing it because I don't talk about myself.
Speaker 1 (49:35):
I talk about God. The only thing, you know what
I talk about myself.
Speaker 2 (49:39):
I talk about how fucked up I am.
Speaker 1 (49:43):
You know, I go to conventions. I you know what
I talk about.
Speaker 2 (49:47):
I talk about how screwed up I am now and
forever and how incredible God is. Is that crazy? That's
the craziest thing when you think about it. You just
to be able to brag on yourself or something, you know.
That's why I like it because I get to talk
about like it was. I Saidator, the Lord has been
some want with me, showing me a selbleseas guy, and
(50:07):
I keep talking about him, acknowledging him and telling other people.
I got to tell other people about what's going on.
I think that's literature. I think that's legitimate. Not to
talk so much about yourself, but talk about what God
has allowed you to do and how God has And
that was John Glenn, by the way, that was John Glenn.
Speaker 1 (50:29):
Everything was about God, what God.
Speaker 2 (50:30):
Done for him, gun from you know, and that's the deal.
Speaker 1 (50:35):
So thank you very much,
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