Russell S. Session 9: Step Series at Life Is Good Group - 11/13/2025

Russell S. Session 9 at the Life Is Good Group, Boca Raton 11/13/2025

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hi, guys.

Speaker 2 (00:00):
My name is Russell Spats. I'm an alcoholic, so it's
great to be here. And I haven't found no savage
rink since January twenty fifth, nineteen eighty one. And saw
him in my at the end of my I'm in
my forty fifth year of sobriety.

Speaker 1 (00:14):
And if I make it, I'll I'll make it. I
don't know, We'll see how it works out.

Speaker 2 (00:22):
So so you know, Mike, I'm gonna do this because
Mike asked me to do it, not necessarily because I
think it fits in with anything I'm gonna say today,
but maybe it will. Maybe I'll say something to say,
well that fit right. So he told me he was
not that he was upset, but you know, and you guys,
most of you guys have been here, you know and

(00:44):
come back. You know, you repeat offenders. And so I
was I was speaking in where was I speaking Buffalo
and a couple of weeks ago, and they I think
it was Buffalo And they said, well, he said, he
told me, he told me I was. They told the
people I was an acquired taste, and they started laughing,

(01:08):
like you guys just laughed, and I said, well, you're
laughing out when you can find out what that means.

Speaker 1 (01:13):
But in any event, so I guess I'm gonna quiet.
But in any event, Uh, so I've told this group.

Speaker 2 (01:21):
The story of when I bought the alcohol almost bought
the Alki dog.

Speaker 1 (01:26):
You guys, I told that story. I told. I told
you guys the Alkie dog story.

Speaker 2 (01:37):
Now and now I'm screwed up because it's my favorite story.
And you wanted me to tell the Alki cruise story.
And so what am I gonna do? I tell the
I gotta tell him both. He's are true stories, you know.
I mean, you can trust me. I'm an alcoholic.

Speaker 1 (01:58):
Would I lie?

Speaker 2 (02:01):
So I was driving not a few blocks from my
house and there was a guy sitting on the front
lawn and he had he had a sign talking dog
ten dollars. So I don't know what you guys would
have done, you know, but I used to stop my
car and I said, he got a dog for sal
He says, yeah, he's in the back. I said he's
talking dog. He says, yeah, he talks.

Speaker 1 (02:23):
Sorry.

Speaker 2 (02:25):
I said, you got a dog that talks like He
says yeah, And he says, why don't you go go
back there and start talking to.

Speaker 1 (02:29):
Him, and I said, you know, okay. He says his
name's Max. I said, okay, so I went up. I
went back there.

Speaker 2 (02:40):
He didn't say he was an Alki dog, but I learned,
you know, later on, Doug go ahead of me.

Speaker 1 (02:44):
So I went back there to talk to him.

Speaker 2 (02:46):
And there was this mangy looking dog in the back
of it looked like he was two thousand years old.

Speaker 1 (02:50):
And I went up to him and I said, I'm
sitting there.

Speaker 2 (02:54):
His dog's there. So I said, are you either talking dog?
And he says, yeah, I'm the talking dog.

Speaker 1 (03:00):
Talking to me. You know, I'm saying you talk. He says, yeah,
I talk. I can talk ever since I'm a pup.
And said, man, this is amazing.

Speaker 2 (03:07):
I said, I said, what's your story? He says, well,
I worked for years for the I'm retired from the CIA,
and I was stationed in Moscow and I had a
handler there, but I belonged to a KGB guy high
up to the KGB, and I used to go to
the Kremlin all the time, and you know, for the
meetings they had there, and they didn't mind me. He goes,

(03:29):
I'm a dog, what do I know? And then later
on I would be debriefed by my handler. And I
did that for about ten or fifteen years, and then
I uh, and then I uh, and then I retired.
I went back home and I started working with Monsanto
in the industrial estroonage. I was like, this isn't a
funny story, that's the truth. Montsana industrial Espionage. And I

(03:54):
go over the dow or three M or what like that,
and the guy would be there and you know, I'm
a dog.

Speaker 1 (03:58):
And then I come back. I'd beat the brief.

Speaker 2 (04:00):
I tell Monsanto everything they said about the new products anything.

Speaker 1 (04:04):
I did that for about five or six years. Now
I'll retire. And he's I said, man, this is amazing.
They want to do a movie. I said, yeah, I've
been talking to Spielberg and they're going to do a
movie on you. I've got all this stuff going on and.

Speaker 2 (04:18):
I said, man, that is absolutely I said, you know,
I got home about six or seven blocks away. We've
got a big yard, I've gotten another dog. I said,
I got grandkids, eight grandkids. You love them, and uh,
you know, I'm thinking of you know, maybe you might
want to stay with us. You know, we we love
to have you. He says, yeah, I'm sure fine, whatever,
you know, I mean, I'm okay with that.

Speaker 1 (04:39):
You seem like a nice guy. And I said, okay.
I went up to the guy friend, I said, and.

Speaker 2 (04:45):
I said, so I was talking to Max and he says, yeah,
I just he's you know, he was great.

Speaker 1 (04:52):
You know, I had a great conversation with him. He says, yeah.
He says, so I'm thinking maybe i'll I'd.

Speaker 2 (04:57):
Like to buy him from you, you know, and you
can live with only about six or seven blocks down
the road if you don't mind. He says, yeah, I
have no problem. And so I said, so how much?
He said, can't you read the sign? Ten dollars? I said,
you got a dog that talks? He says, yeah. He says,
you're gonna sell a dog, a talking dog for ten dollars.

(05:22):
He said he's a liar. He never did any of
that shit, you know, Alfie Dollar. So then I'm walking
on Miami Beach. Shortly after that, I'm actually getting this

(05:42):
sense of disbelief, you know, But I I say, guy says,
he says, cruise to the Bahamas ten dollars.

Speaker 1 (05:56):
He almost looked like the same guy that had the dog.
When cruise the bottom is ten dollars.

Speaker 2 (06:03):
And I so I walked into the place and I said,
you have a sign out there to me, cruise the
bombs ten dollars.

Speaker 1 (06:10):
Says yeah. He says, that's cruise the bombas for ten dollars,
is yeah, ten dollars.

Speaker 2 (06:15):
That said full of cruise. He says absolutely. I said,
is that legitimate? He says, He says, Look, you got
ten dollars. He said, yeah, I get ten dollars. Just
give him ten dollars. You're on you're on the cruise,
you're on the deal. Give me the ten dollars. So
I give him ten dollars. Next thing I know, I'm
hit upside the head by a blackjack.

Speaker 1 (06:36):
I go unconscious. I don't know how long later.

Speaker 2 (06:40):
I wake up and I'm floating in the Gulf street,
in the Gulf stream, in my underwear, in one of
these rubber things, you know what I mean, black rubber things,
and there's no land in sight, and I'm looking at
the sun and the sun is going down, and I'm
floating like eastward, I mean towards I guess the Bahamas.

(07:02):
But you can't see anything, you know, and uh, you know, obviously.

Speaker 1 (07:07):
I'm scared, you know, I'm all alone. The sun is
going down.

Speaker 2 (07:10):
In the tube and everything and h and then all
of a sudden, I see about one hundred yards away,
a little farther within me, another guy in the same
kind of two floating also. So I start outling my
way to the other guy, and I finally get to him,
and he's floating there, you said, I.

Speaker 1 (07:30):
Said, I said, I can't.

Speaker 2 (07:32):
I mean, I was, I wasn't laughing at the time.
I said, I can't believe this. I can't believe this.
This is We're gonna die out here. Guys, this is unbelievable. Now,
he says, you're telling me, you're telling me. I said, no,
this is really criminal. There could be sharks in these words.
We don't know where going the sun is going down.
We could die out here. He says, Hey, you're telling me.
I said, but no, this isn't a joke. There's only

(07:55):
you and me out here. There's nobody out here. We
could die. We don't what's going to happen. We don't
how do these guys get away with this stuff? He says, Hey, look, fellow,
you're telling me. Don't you think I know this? You're
telling me? So we keep on floating for about ten
to fifteen minutes. Finally a turner and I say, well.

Speaker 1 (08:14):
You think they feed us on this cruise And he says,
I don't know. They didn't last year.

Speaker 2 (08:27):
You know they're alcoholic, you know, doing the same shit
over and over again expecting different results.

Speaker 1 (08:35):
I suppose, Okay, that's it on step ten.

Speaker 2 (08:40):
You know, you know, so this isn't an apology, but
it's going to sound like an apology for you guys
who have been coming here. Maybe I am an acquiet taste.
My think, based upon what I've heard in the past
from different people, will go to step series or whatever

(09:02):
it is. I think you may this was probably advertised
as a step series, right, I mean, I don't know.
Have I been talking about the steps? I don't know,
but it doesn't really matter. But I think what i'd like,
what I would like to hear, and I hear this
quite often is things like comments like, well, they never

(09:23):
talked about any of this stuff to meetings I go to,
or stuff like that.

Speaker 1 (09:26):
Something different, you know what I mean? That's what I
want to give you.

Speaker 2 (09:28):
I want to give you something different, Okay, And I
sometimes I think you know that I lived like three lives.
Life is an active alcoholic life is an alcoholic in
recovery working in a program of recovery.

Speaker 1 (09:47):
And then the third life work in another.

Speaker 2 (09:49):
Program, a different program than the first program. I think
the first program in AI worked was the first ten
or fifteen years, something like that, and then I got
involved in another program.

Speaker 1 (10:05):
Uh and uh.

Speaker 2 (10:07):
I think the first program I evolved was in was AA.
I mean, and I think the program involved in right
now is AA.

Speaker 1 (10:19):
But I don't think it's your AA. It's my AA.

Speaker 2 (10:24):
It's been an A that's been around for a long time,
but it's not really done anymore. It's not practiced anymore.
So what I try to do, what I'm what I'm
gonna do.

Speaker 1 (10:33):
What I do is.

Speaker 2 (10:34):
I I tried to acquaint you with a different AA. Now,
if you know anything about alcoholics are very sensitive. You know,
they hear stuff like that. I sort of like to
say things that piss people off. I actually get a
great kick.

Speaker 1 (10:49):
Out of it. You know, when I used to worry
about what do they think about me? Or they don't
want to who they're talking about? The high bag.

Speaker 2 (10:55):
It's not you can't do that, but but when you
actually enjoy upsetting people. You know, it's very hard to
get everybody to like you, but it's a snap to
get everybody to hate you.

Speaker 1 (11:06):
Let me tell you, it's not a sneezer.

Speaker 2 (11:08):
And if you don't, if it doesn't bother you, you know.
And one of the promises they say is.

Speaker 1 (11:13):
Fear of people.

Speaker 2 (11:15):
Remember this, fear of people and economic insecurity will leave you.
If that's a real promise, what would happen Suppose that
happened to you. Suppose you had like forty five years
in AA and you weren't worried about what an audience
thought about your a thought about you, or anybody.

Speaker 1 (11:34):
Thought you weren't worried.

Speaker 2 (11:36):
I mean, who knows what would come out of your mouth,
you know. I mean some people would come here and
they'd feel obligated to talk about the steps because it's
a it's a step thing, right. I've been doing this
for years, twenty years or something like with you guys,
and it's a step deal, right, And they feel like

(12:00):
I'd have to perform, you know, and when you're seventy
six years old, performing is out of the question. So
if you've got to forget about that deal. So the
bottom is, say feel that, but you know, listen, if
you wear a life like loose Carmen and you don't
worry about what people think you anymore, who knows what
the hell.

Speaker 1 (12:15):
You talk about. But what I want to talk about.

Speaker 2 (12:17):
So what I want to talk about is I want
to talk about a from alcoholics Anonymous in a program
of recovery.

Speaker 1 (12:23):
From my perspective, you know, from my perspective.

Speaker 2 (12:28):
Now, I'm no grape cheese. I mean, forty five years
a long time. There are people with fifty five years,
there are other people. But the point is, you know,
you know, I'd like to know. I mean, if I
was in the audience that I had two years, five
years or something like that, and I heard somebody was
speaking with forty years or fifty years or so, I'd
want to know, So what what's it like for you?

Speaker 1 (12:47):
How do you? And the interesting thing with me is
I listen, I was.

Speaker 2 (12:53):
Brought up in what you would call AA, what you
guys would call AA based upon the.

Speaker 1 (12:58):
Way it's done the last twenty years, you understand.

Speaker 2 (13:03):
And so I did all this stuff everything you can imagine,
you know, all the service, all the stuff. Eight years
on relay, working with drugs, going on on twelve step.

Speaker 1 (13:13):
Calls everything gold deal. I did it all. I in
no way to put that down. It worked for me.
It got me sober.

Speaker 2 (13:20):
It kept me sober for many, many years until it
stopped working. You understand now, you may not understand that.
It may not make any sense to you When I
say stop working? Does is it possible to work in
program recovery and stop working?

Speaker 1 (13:36):
That must mean you quit going to meetings. No, I
doubled up on meetings when it's suff When.

Speaker 2 (13:39):
It stopped working for me, I went twice as many meetings.

Speaker 1 (13:43):
It still didn't work.

Speaker 2 (13:44):
When I said it didn't work, I was still unhappy.
The only difference is when you got twenty years or
fifteen years and you're unhappy. You don't go to meetings
of alcoholics anonymous and say I've got fifteen years and
I'm unhappy. When you're doing steps series for groups you
know what I mean, or you're speaking at conventions and
you're unhappy, you don't start off by you don't start

(14:07):
off with the out with the ALKI cruise. You start
talking to people how you feel like you have fifteen
years but you're suicidal. They don't want to hear that shit.
You know what I mean, and so there's nobody really
to talk to. And even if there was somebody to
talk to you because of the because of the disease

(14:29):
of intellectual pride, because you've got all these medallions hanging
from your neck or all this stuff, and you're speaking,
you don't you say, I'll work it out myself. But
the more you try to work it out yourself. Well,
you guys understand this because there are people here with
two years that are trying to work it out themselves
and it's going you know, so the more you try

(14:49):
to work it out yourself, the worse it gets. But
that idea of playing god working it out yourself, figuring
this thing out, like what's that guy the beginning of
the book, I forgot to stand it ri Who no, no,
you said, now knowing the end of workings in my mind,
who was that.

Speaker 1 (15:10):
Rolling a hazard? Then drinking was impossible. Nevertheless he was
drunking too.

Speaker 2 (15:15):
We're always once we get our sea legs and we're
in AA for a year, two or three, you know,
we don't need to ask for help. But you're going
to work this out of ourselves, do another four step
or stuff like it. But it actually gets worse, but
it doesn't. You don't fall off a cliff. It just
you don't even realize it's getting worse until one day
you got ten years and you're you're stuck on the
muzzle of a gun or something and the IRIS takes

(15:35):
all your money or you lose something or stuff like that.
So you go through a period of time where you're
not drinking, so you know, you know it's working because
they're handling your medallions and it's very clear to you
that you're here because you don't want to drink and
you're not drinking, and you get a medallion, so it's working,
but it's really not working, but you tell yourself it's working,

(15:56):
and until it gets so bad and you don't really
see this stuff until it starts happening to you, until
it happens to you that second bottom. You know, there's
a lot of mini bottoms of microbox, but then there's.

Speaker 1 (16:07):
That big deal and many people actually drink, well, they
don't drink.

Speaker 2 (16:14):
They go to a psychiatrists and it says, well, once
you try these, they start taking you know, xanax or something,
and then they drink or they start doing other things. Okay,
you know, like they start screwing around or whatever whatever
sind floats your boat, you know, whether it's pornography or
whatever the hell it is, it's floating your boat. Okay,
you get involved in that stuff and it just slowly

(16:36):
eats away at your heart and things like that, and
the one thing you know is you're not being rocking
in the fourth dimension existence. You're not experienced much of
heaven and you're not knowing peace, and that's pretty clear
to you. But you sort of hang in there because
you figure you're doing this thing right because you're not drinking.
What ultimately happens is you go to these conventions that
I go to and they have these things called countdowns

(16:58):
you guys have been doing or something where they have
a countdown and they you know, it's like somehow as
you go through the countdown, you see the deal. You
see that you know, one, two, three, five, ten years sober,
everybody's standing up, everybody sober.

Speaker 1 (17:12):
Until you get to twenty years.

Speaker 2 (17:13):
And then you know, between twenty and forty years, you
could shoot a shotgun. You're not gonna hurt anybody because
it's like five people, you know what I mean, and
they can't have all died you know what I mean.

Speaker 1 (17:25):
I mean they could have all died.

Speaker 2 (17:27):
And you realize that what Bill Wilson ultimately realized that
very very few people who you would call old timers
make it to the finish line.

Speaker 1 (17:38):
And they would like you to believe because it sounds great.

Speaker 2 (17:41):
It makes you feel good that they didn't make it
because they obviously didn't do the first step. So I
saw some guy who had thirty years Onceton. I told
this story I think a while ago, and you had
thirty or forty years a long time, and a gal
from you and says, I'm glad Andy's here. He started
this whole group fifty years ago. Blah blah blah. And

(18:02):
at the end, Dandy stood up and pick up a
white chip. So, like, you know, it's easy to say, oh,
you know, obviously you didn't do the first step.

Speaker 1 (18:08):
You know, I mean, stay sober for like fifty.

Speaker 2 (18:10):
Years and then I'll pay that, you know, I mean,
there's something more to it, because it was just the
first step.

Speaker 1 (18:17):
We wouldn't need a big book. All we need is
we need a twelve or twelve or any of this stuff.

Speaker 2 (18:21):
All we need is like a bumper sticker, you know,
And and so you start, as you're growing up in AA,
you realize, I.

Speaker 1 (18:30):
Think it realized.

Speaker 2 (18:31):
I think I realized when I had been three months sober,
that I also might be crazy. You know, you start
realizing that this the drinking really is a symptom, and
the real disease centers.

Speaker 1 (18:42):
In your mind, and you know, and so what happens,
I get. I mean, I'll help it. I've always helped.
I'll help a drunk. I don't care who you are.

Speaker 2 (18:50):
You could have five days, you could have five hours,
you're gonna have fifty years, it doesn't matter.

Speaker 1 (18:55):
I'm gonna help you if you.

Speaker 2 (18:56):
Ask me for help, and I'm gonna continue to help
you and do the I can by telling you the truth.

Speaker 1 (19:02):
You know, if you if.

Speaker 2 (19:04):
You ask me for help, and and and if I
realize that you're full of shit and you're wasting my
time and I keep on telling you the same thing
and you do whatever you want to do, I'm gonna uh,
you can ask me for help, and I'm gonna say, uh,
I'll tell you what. I'm gonna help you when you
actually stop wasting my time and doing do what I

(19:26):
what I told you to do five months ago and
three months ago when two months ago. So I'm I'm
not gonna suffer fools. I'm not gonna. I'm not going
to I I I'm not gonna put in an application
for alan On. You understand what I'm saying, and Chase
after an alcohol can begged him not to. It's not
gonna happen that way. It's gonna there's gonna be some

(19:47):
pain involved, okay, And that does me because I don't
love you. It's because I love you. And some alcoholics,
you know, just have to be hurt. They could either
be hurt by the police officers charging him with the
Vehiculohama side, which is very public, or just be hurt
by me in an AA meeting. I'd rather than get
hurt by me in private than hurt in public. Do
you understand what I'm saying? And some alcoholics need that.

(20:10):
But the fact of the matter is is that one
of the things they say in the Big Book, is
they in the twelve and twelve Actually they say we
get the way, we get a new perspective, the way
you look at things differently. As a matter of fact,
there's a book called One Grindia thirteen, which was one
of the books that were absolutely necessary and essential for

(20:33):
alcoholics to know the first five years in AA and
they talk about it in Dr Bob and the Good
Old Timers and that book. It says, we see through
a glass darkly, but one day we're going to see clearly, essentially,
and it also says, when I was a child, I
spoke like a child. You know, I talk like a child,

(20:56):
I acted like a child. When I became a man,
I put childish things away, you know, I changed. The
Big Book talks about being reborn. And we have this
sixth step, which is to me, one of the most important,
the most important step, more important than first to any step.

(21:18):
They call it an old time step six and seven.
And that step says, this is a step that separates
the men from.

Speaker 1 (21:28):
The boys, and the women from the girls.

Speaker 2 (21:30):
This is a step that separates the alcoholic what they
call it.

Speaker 1 (21:34):
The spiritual kindergarten, from the real deal.

Speaker 2 (21:38):
This is a step that separates the people that are
going to say, you say, broke sober for five, six, ten,
fifteen years and then drink or commit suicide from the
people that are going to stay sober for forty five
fifty years. And the separation is not an even separation
based on what I see. It's not a separation where

(22:01):
it's not a separation where you know fifty you know,
are going this way and then fifty percent are going
the other way. It's the kind of separation where maybe
only two percent make it.

Speaker 1 (22:17):
You're with me.

Speaker 2 (22:18):
I mean, that's what I've seen in this deal, sou
And you know alcoholics don't like to hear stuff like that.
So here here's what happens. So when i speak to y'all, okay,
and I've done these step series for you know, forty years.

Speaker 1 (22:34):
When I speak to y'all, I have.

Speaker 2 (22:38):
Done and I know how to do a classic current
step series.

Speaker 1 (22:43):
You know.

Speaker 2 (22:44):
This is how you do the fourth step. This is
how I did the third step. This is how I
did the first step. Give you a first step and
then I drank. I give a story what it was like. What.
This is how I did the fifth step. This, this
is how I can tell you how I did. I
can tell you how I made my eight step list.
I can tell you how I did an eight step.

(23:06):
I can tell you how I did the ninth step.
I can tell you different ninth step. I can tell
you all that. Okay, I can tell you all about
the ten step, all this stuff you can read in
the book Alcoholics Anonymous.

Speaker 1 (23:18):
They even have a chart. You don't need me to
tell you that.

Speaker 2 (23:24):
All I would do would be I would be regurgitating
that which is easily found out.

Speaker 1 (23:29):
If you just ask your sponsor.

Speaker 2 (23:32):
It's not tough stuff, okay, but it's not really what
I'm involved in.

Speaker 1 (23:36):
Now. I'm involved in something else, and it's actually easier
for me.

Speaker 2 (23:42):
You know, the Lord didn't put me in a position
to be seventy six years old, and I have forty five years,
so I could tell you what somebody with five years
could tell you, or I could tell you what somebody
with fifteen years could tell you. And the people that.

Speaker 1 (24:00):
Come up to me today, that call me on the phone.

Speaker 2 (24:04):
And tell me the problems they're going through and what's happening,
are people with ten, fifteen, twenty, twenty five, thirty years sobriety,
thirty five years sobriety.

Speaker 1 (24:15):
And I know the reason they do that.

Speaker 2 (24:18):
They do that because they understand that they can tell
me at thirty years what they're going through and not
feel judged and feel safe rather than you.

Speaker 1 (24:31):
Know, throw pearls before swine. You know what I mean,
rather than go before like a.

Speaker 2 (24:36):
Regular meeting saying I got twenty five years and you know,
this is what's going on with me, and you know
I'm not feeling good and I'm lonely and everything like that,
and feel like they're being judged or have somebody tell them,
you know, well you obviously didn't do the first hour
some sort of bullshit.

Speaker 1 (24:52):
Does that make any sense?

Speaker 2 (24:54):
So when I talk about is I talk about what's
working for me today and what I'm doing today, and
I have just a different perspective on this program and
whatever perspective I have. Look, I go to three meetings

(25:14):
a day, you know that on Zoom Monday through Friday.
I do a four hour recovery scripture friendly recovery. Every
Friday night. I do a four hour workshop every Saturday morning.
And then different things I go do all over different

(25:35):
places like this or you know, Milwaukee, wherever the hell
I am doing that stuff. So I'm not a guy
who doesn't do AA, you understand. So the only thing
I can tell you is whatever I am today, whether
you like it or you don't like it, I am
a product of alcoholics anonymous, So don't blame me.

Speaker 1 (25:55):
Blame the Big Book, the twelve or twelve Doctor Bob
and the Good Old Time. Blame the steps, you know,
because this isn't me.

Speaker 2 (26:05):
I'm the guy who just wants stuff, fuck around, get laid,
get drunk, and chase half of the things of this world.
This is not the program I signed up for talking
to people about Jesus. You understand what I'm saying. It's
not the program. I didn't sign up for the program.
When people are judging me or saying, who the Elllyphings is,
I think he broke a tradition.

Speaker 1 (26:25):
That's broke. That's tradition, saying I don't give a shit
yet I don't. I really don't.

Speaker 2 (26:30):
Okay to me, the traditions are wonderful and they will
keep you fucked. They will tell you this is what
the traditions tell you. Don't in any way ever, venture
out of the coffin of alcoholics Anonymous. Don't read any
books that are on conference approved, And let me tell
you something, that's not what the traditions were designed for.

(26:52):
The books that are conference approved are published by alcoholics Anonymous,
and they make money off.

Speaker 1 (26:57):
Of them, and they approve them. You know what I mean?
And so so.

Speaker 2 (27:00):
AA can be the McDonald's of recovery.

Speaker 1 (27:04):
No matter where you go.

Speaker 2 (27:06):
You know, the burghers taste exactly the same, and nobody
cooks a different type of burger.

Speaker 1 (27:12):
You understand what I'm saying.

Speaker 2 (27:14):
That's there are no there's no such thing as a
conference disapproved. You go up to New York and say
you want AA to announce that the Bible is disapproved,
and you watch all the Christians leave AA. Watch all
the Christians leave AA, and then you'll see what this

(27:34):
looks with it, You'll see what this fellowship actually looks like.
You you tell them, you tell them to say that
going to church, going to synagogue, doing.

Speaker 1 (27:45):
All that stuff, you.

Speaker 2 (27:46):
Know, preaching anything outside is disapproved, and you won't.

Speaker 1 (27:49):
Be allowed to speak.

Speaker 2 (27:50):
And you watch all the sober people leave AA, and
then you'll see what you got, what this thing is
really about.

Speaker 1 (28:01):
You'll see what's really going on here. You understand. So
the deal is so I.

Speaker 2 (28:09):
Now I'm gonna talk a little bit about Step ten,
but in a weird way, in a different way that I.

Speaker 1 (28:16):
You know, there's only you know, Step ten talks about.

Speaker 2 (28:19):
Continuing to take an editory, continue to make amends when
you're wrong.

Speaker 1 (28:24):
I mean continuing to do stuff.

Speaker 2 (28:27):
So really it doesn't really tell you to do anything
different than just continuing, right, So why don't people continue?
Why don't people continue? I mean you all believe right
that the reason people drink. Haven't you been doing this

(28:48):
because they stopped going to meetings? So you don't stop
going to means.

Speaker 1 (28:52):
You go to meetings.

Speaker 2 (28:53):
But all the people that stopped going to means five years,
ten years, fifteen years, twenties, that stoped on means, they
said the same meaning as you did.

Speaker 1 (29:02):
That said if you stop going to means, you're going
to drink. So let's forget about the stop going to means.

Speaker 2 (29:08):
Why do those people stop going to means? Well, how
about this? What about the people that rap their drug?
Whill continue to go to meetings? You think any of
them but exists? Why do they drink or drug for
five years, ten years? What about these guys that come
in and say, well, I had twenty years and then

(29:29):
I drank. Is that because they had twenty years then
they drank? Is that because they didn't do the first step?
They hung around like for the coffee that hung around
or what I mean? They didn't do the first step?
They were never serious about this What about all of
those people? Why didn't answer that question? So we got
this thing called the sixth step. So one of the

(29:49):
things that happens when you have a different perspective, and
you know, I have a different perspective, so I share
it with you.

Speaker 1 (29:53):
You may see it, you may not see it. Is
you start seeing things.

Speaker 2 (29:58):
Got you start seeing the connection between all the steps,
how they're connected, Okay, And you start seeing a connection
between the sixth step and the tenth step or the
sixth step and all the other steps.

Speaker 1 (30:11):
In all hinges. You know when it says this is
the step that separates.

Speaker 2 (30:16):
The men from the boys, that there's a great separation,
and it happens around the sixth step. When they say
things like that, they don't say things like that about
the third step. They don't say things like that about
the twelfth step. That's the only step they say that
about is the sixth step. So what's so special about
the sixth step?

Speaker 1 (30:37):
And if you.

Speaker 2 (30:37):
Understand what's special about the sixth step, then you'll understand
how it plays into the tenth step and why some
people make it. Because the people that make it into
the step, tenth step and beyond are the people that
actually have done the sixth step. So a guy called

(31:00):
me up today because you know, I get people call
me up all the times, says, so how do I
do this?

Speaker 1 (31:06):
So how do I do that? Or how do I
do this? How do I do that?

Speaker 2 (31:09):
And people really want they really want to know how
do I get this? And how do I get that?
And see, this is what listen. There's not a bad question,
you know. I mean, I'm sure I've asked that question.
How do I how do I? Because what I want
is I want whoever it is I'm talking to to
give me an answer that I understand, and then I

(31:33):
can do it, and then I'll be wonderful I don't
have to and then I graduate, and then I'll then
I'll then I'll look like I have forty five years
you know what I mean, you know, and then I'll
have that and and and they don't want to hear
you can't do it. They want to know how to

(31:56):
do it. They don't want to hear it you can't
do it. Now I'll tell them to their face, this
is what you should do. Do A, B, C, and D.
And then they'll listen to me. Actually, they won't listen
to me. They don't hear a word I'm saying.

Speaker 1 (32:15):
I said yeah, and they'll they'll they'll act like they're
listening to me. They'll do a B C.

Speaker 2 (32:19):
By the time I get to say he says, yeah, yeah,
but this no, let me finish, do a B C
and D. And then they'll say, yeah, but how do
I do this? How do I get this? I said,
I just told you, I said he. I said, yeah,
but I want to know how I can get close
to God? I said, I just told you. I just
told you what to do, and then they don't do it.
And I would never if somebody asked me how to

(32:42):
do something, I would never not tell them what they
need to do. I would never give them. I would
always give them direction. They just don't like the direction
what they want. They don't want direction on what they
need to do. They want an answer, which is different.
They don't want to hear don't drink and.

Speaker 1 (33:02):
Go to meetings.

Speaker 2 (33:04):
They want an answer to the question, you know, don't
drink go to meetings?

Speaker 1 (33:09):
Number one. It sounds like it's long term, you understand, like,
so for how long? For how long? Forever? How many?
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (33:25):
Two a day, three a day, I don't know five
a day, you know, you know, never stop going. I mean,
they don't want to hear stuff like that. They want
an answer to the question so they can do it
and then go get laid, you know what I mean,
and do what they want to do, you know, And
that's what they want because they're alcoholics. They're all Alki
dogs and you know, and Alcae cruises and they're all

(33:45):
that deal. You know.

Speaker 1 (33:47):
That's what they are. That's what we are. That's what
I am.

Speaker 2 (33:52):
So so here, let me read you something out of
the sixth step, and then maybe I can sort of
slide into the ten step and you'll get what I'm
talking about. Okay, yeah, I can do this thing. So
I'm just gonna be the first paragram of the sixth step.
By the way, I want to point out something to you.
Doesn't he say really haven't seen a person fail who
has thoroughly and followed our path, And it says these

(34:12):
are the suggesting steps. So I want to point out
to you that the sixth step is one of the steps.
This is not rocket scientist, listen, this is not I'm
not making fun of you. I just want to play
out the sixth step.

Speaker 1 (34:30):
It's not optional. It's not like, it's not like twelve steps.

Speaker 2 (34:34):
But you can throw out the sixth step and therefore
throw out the seven. Hey, how does an eight of
this do step eleven? Somebody just read me the eleven
step prayer, you know, with pray to God?

Speaker 1 (34:43):
And how does it?

Speaker 2 (34:44):
How does his atheists do the step eleven continue to
have conscious contact with God?

Speaker 1 (34:52):
You can't. You can't.

Speaker 2 (34:55):
So if I stand up and I say, I'm telling
you it's impossible that they they can.

Speaker 1 (35:00):
They're alcoholics. They can kneeling them ount their way around it.

Speaker 2 (35:03):
They can say, well, this is the way I do it,
or I do it differently, or I do it, I
do yoga, whatever.

Speaker 1 (35:07):
They but they're not. They're not.

Speaker 2 (35:10):
It's not the same recipe. They're not using real chocolate.
They're using fake chocolate. They're not using real sugar, they're
using sacchring.

Speaker 1 (35:20):
You know what I mean. It's not you can only
bend this thing so far, you know.

Speaker 2 (35:24):
So there goes the eleventh step, There goes the eleven step,
There goes the sixth step, there goes the seventh step.
You know, I mean you can, if you're an alcoholic,
you can bend this thing into whatever.

Speaker 1 (35:40):
You don't.

Speaker 2 (35:40):
We talk a lot about the sentences. The sentences mean something.
God is everything or he's nothing. There is one who
has all power. That one is God. We had to
find a power more greater than ourselves would solve our problem,
all our problems. That means, of course we're going to
talk about God. Here's where agnostics have a problem. People
have a problem with God. Things are not believers, they're agnostics.

(36:03):
You know what the Big Book says about agnostics. An atheist,
This sort of this sort of thinking must be abandoned. Yeah,
you could stand up and say you can go. You
could chair a meeting and say I'm an atheist and
I'm not you know, I don't believe in God or something.
Nobody will say.

Speaker 1 (36:19):
Anything to you.

Speaker 2 (36:21):
You're not talking about AA. You're talking about some other AA.
You're not even talking about AA. Nobody will say anything
to you. If I say I'm a Christian, you say, oh,
you violated a tradition.

Speaker 1 (36:33):
I believe in God. Your tradition violating. You're scaring away,
you're scaring away newcomers.

Speaker 2 (36:37):
But if I said I was an atheist, that's okay,
that's okay. It's like group think you know, but it's
clearly not. Okay, So here's step six. Let me tell
you what it says. This is if you ever want
to think about what actually doing it. This is a
step that separates the men from the boys, so declares

(36:58):
a well loved clergymen. So they've already got a guy
in the pulpit.

Speaker 1 (37:01):
Preaching to you.

Speaker 2 (37:02):
Okay, a well loved clergy Because you remember, there's that
part that says, we lose all prejudice, even against all
organized religion.

Speaker 1 (37:08):
We begin to see what they're right.

Speaker 2 (37:10):
This is where we find out whether you're full of
shit or you understand what you're reading here. This is
the step that separates the mem from the boy, So
declares the well loved clergyman. It happens to be one
of they's greatest friends. He goes on to explain that
any person this is.

Speaker 1 (37:24):
This is the definition. This is how you know whether
you're doing the sixth step.

Speaker 2 (37:29):
He goes on to explain that any person capable of
enough willingness and honesty to try to repeat it, try
repeatedly step six on all's faults without any reservations. Whatever
has indeed come a long way spirituality and let me
tell you something. You can read this book backwards and

(37:49):
fault which you'd always say. We're spiritual, not religious. We're spiritual.
They never use the word spiritual unless it's somehow linked
with in God.

Speaker 1 (38:02):
You will never.

Speaker 2 (38:03):
Hear the words spiritual in the Big Book rank unless
it's linked with God. See to hit that the relationship
with Him is right, and great events will.

Speaker 1 (38:15):
Come to pass.

Speaker 2 (38:16):
You will joined the fellowship of the spirit. You know
this stuff like, we're spiritual not religious. You know somehow
we have arrived and we're spiritual beings.

Speaker 1 (38:28):
We float, We float high above the cute. We're much
more spiritual than religious people. You know, they don't really understand.

Speaker 2 (38:37):
No, we don't get anywhere above alcoholics. We're basically alcohol
We're basically let me tell you something. Yeah, you're all
spiritual and virus thinks all your money.

Speaker 1 (38:47):
You're all spiritual until.

Speaker 2 (38:49):
Your husband divorces you or your wife divorces you. You're
all spiritual until you lose your job. You're all spiritual,
and then all of a sudden, the worldly cloud is
let's slam the shit out of you, and you suck
your thumb and you start whining and crying.

Speaker 1 (39:06):
Step six and all is twelt that.

Speaker 2 (39:07):
Any reservation has a deed, come a long way, and
is therefore entitled. This is what a sixth step man
is entitled or a woman is entitled to be a
man or a woman, who are sincerely trying, sincerely trying,
non bullshit to grow in the image of likeness of
their own creator, of God. So that's what it's about.

(39:31):
It's about growing in the image of God. And let's
say you don't have an image of God, then how
are you gonna do that? Let's say God is like
a cloud or you know, saying you don't know what
it is. Just how you're gonna grow in the image
of likeness of God?

Speaker 1 (39:43):
How you gonna do it? Big shot? You know? So
what does that have to do with Step ten? Okay,
so here's the.

Speaker 2 (39:50):
Deal now here, and let me sort of I'm just
gonna throw this in just for a heck of maybe
and maybe you'll see it. I used to think the
sixth step it was part of the twelve steps of recovery.
You understand what I'm saying, and you'll say, well, it
is I don't think of that.

Speaker 1 (40:08):
I don't think of that way anymore.

Speaker 2 (40:10):
Although there's nothing wrong with thinking that, And I'll tell
you why. Bill Wilson in the when he wrote this
book in about fifteen fourteen, fifteen years twelve and twelve,
talks about all this stuff, talks about emotional sprity and
emotional sobriety, emotional sobriety. Writes an incredible book that's conference

(40:32):
proved about emotional sobriety, emotional sprite and emotional sobriety.

Speaker 1 (40:35):
At around fifteen years.

Speaker 2 (40:38):
Three or four years later, he was taking LSD to
try and see that you get some emotional sobriety.

Speaker 1 (40:44):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (40:45):
A couple of years after that he was suicidal and
almost off himself with depression because he wasn't emotionally sober,
you know, So try to remember that as you're reading
this book. You understand what I'm saying, there's nothing wrong
with this book, but just the guy who wrote it,
who's the smartest guy about a at the time, you understand,

(41:05):
was far away from even getting close to it, you.

Speaker 1 (41:10):
And me, So saying it doesn't make it so.

Speaker 2 (41:15):
Doing it, doing what you're supposed to do, making God
the central fact of your life and focusing only on
him is evidence.

Speaker 1 (41:28):
That you're actually doing this thing.

Speaker 2 (41:31):
And that's why when he wrote the Next Frontier, and
it was published in nineteen fifty eight of the Grapevine,
and he talked about all the old timers that were
sober physically but wacko and emotional basket cases spiritually. He said,
but I've noticed there's a few people, a few a

(41:55):
few people that seemed to have pierced through. And then
he says this line, this is a great line. Perhaps
this is Bill Wilson, not me, so just right in
New York. Perhaps they will be those people will need
to be the spearhead of the next major development in alcoholics.

Speaker 1 (42:19):
Anonymous.

Speaker 2 (42:20):
Now you don't know what the next major development is
because nobody wrote the book. There's no book that says
next major development in alcoholics anonymous. So I'm pretty clear
at this point in time in my life what the
next major development is, okay, which I'm trying to share

(42:41):
with you, okay. And whereas the sixth step for me
used to be a step in the twelve steps of
our customary recovery, to me, it's the first step in
the next major development. That there's another AA that perhaps

(43:07):
was practiced between nineteen thirty five and nineteen thirty nine,
where you couldn't get into a me unless you got
down on your knees and gave your life to God,
where doctor Bob would say, seeking first to the King
of God and his righteousness and all things to be
given to you, and that was.

Speaker 1 (43:23):
Considered first things first.

Speaker 2 (43:25):
With the books they found absolutely essential were first Brinthian's
thirteen Summon on the mount in the Book of James,
where the first meeting of alcoholics, anonymous doctor Bob put
in his foot on the wrong of a dining room
chair and basically read Matthew five, six and seven the
Sermon on the Mountain.

Speaker 1 (43:40):
There's another AA. There's a different AA, and it.

Speaker 2 (43:44):
Was practiced between nineteen thirty five and nineteen thirty nine.
It's the AA they talk about where they say, rarely
have you seen a person fail who has thoroughly followed
our path, done what dwe did.

Speaker 1 (43:56):
And it's an AA that's almost been long for God.
It's an AA where.

Speaker 2 (44:01):
God was taken seriously and all the meetings were about God,
and you got to get down in the unis everybody
talked about God.

Speaker 1 (44:09):
You know, it's that AA. You understand what I'm saying.
It's the AA where they said there is one who
has all power.

Speaker 2 (44:15):
That one is God. May you find them now? Half
measures avail you nothing. And if you want to know
how to do it, here's some suggested steps. It's not
an AA where the whole program was about the steps.
It's an AA where the whole program was about God
talking about God. And you do the steps and hopefully
you'll get to a sixth step and you'll get it.

Speaker 1 (44:35):
Take it seriously. We're in all the meetings all they
do is talk about God.

Speaker 2 (44:39):
Where your sponsor talks about God in seventy A where
they tell you don't talk about God, you're hurting newcomers.
It's foreboden to talk about God. So what does that
have to do with the ten step? What does that
have to do with continuing? Whenever I'm dealing with anybody,
and I include myself from this because I went through this.

Speaker 1 (44:58):
That's what the other bottom was about. Bill Wilson includes
himself in this.

Speaker 2 (45:02):
If you read that to this thing and you got
somebody who's got ten or fifteen or twenty years and
they're in trouble, it's never because they don't know.

Speaker 1 (45:08):
How to do the fourth step.

Speaker 2 (45:12):
It's never because they're not sponsoring. People are not going
to meetings. I'm not saying it wouldn't help. I mean,
and maybe they have maybe they do need to go
to war meetings, maybe do need a sponsor, but that's
just putting a band aid on it. It's always because
they have no sixth Step motivation. As far as God

(45:33):
is concerned, God is so far down the list. It's
something they do at AA meetings when they say this
serenety prayer. It's something they do at AA meetings when
they say the Lord's prayer if they're saying it, but
it has absolutely nothing to do with their lives, nothing
to do with their lives.

Speaker 1 (45:53):
And you realize that if you.

Speaker 2 (45:56):
Don't take this thing seriously, ends up is over a
period of time.

Speaker 1 (46:02):
What did Bill Wilson say?

Speaker 2 (46:03):
I wanted God, I need a guy, and he came,
but soon worldly clamors, mostly with myself, blocked out his presence.

Speaker 1 (46:12):
Over a period of.

Speaker 2 (46:13):
Ten, twenty thirty forty years. No matter how good an
AA you are, now, how many meetings you're going, there's
more shit going on out there than there is.

Speaker 1 (46:23):
One hour a day going on in here. There's more.

Speaker 2 (46:27):
There's more stuff coming at you out there relationships, romantic relationships, money, property, prestige.
There's more stuff coming at you.

Speaker 3 (46:38):
Bam bam, bam, bam, bam, bam bam every second of
the day than one hour at an a meeting can
protect you from period.

Speaker 1 (46:49):
End of story.

Speaker 2 (46:51):
You know, you'll start noticing it about half an hour
after this meeting, when you get home, or an hour
or two alfter this meeting, when you start working, and
you'll start you'll start noticing that this meaning war off.
You'll start meeting, you'll start realizing that this thing is good.
It's got a half light. It's good for maybe an hour,
and then you'll get a telephone call and it's gone.

Speaker 1 (47:12):
It's evaporated. And over here to ten or fifteen years,
you're going.

Speaker 2 (47:16):
To end up completely vulnerable to what's going on out there.
Unless you got something going on that doesn't leave, that
doesn't leave where you feel protective. You've got something you're
focused on other than the girl, the guy, this, that,

(47:36):
and the other thing. And that's why when I had
ten or fifteen years surbriving and I start going down too,
this guy said, you need to start going to Bible study.
You need to start getting serious. You need to start
looking at God. You're building a relationship with God. And
that's why he says, they say in the last page,
your real relationship, your real realiance, has to be on God.
He'll show you how to create the fellowship you crave.

(47:57):
You got to start craving a godly fellowship. You know
what I do with you guys in the ear where
I talk about God and everything like that. Stuff you
don't get, you know, an hour of God. Can you
imagine that you talk an hour about God? An hour
about God. I don't think I mentioned alcohol, you know.

Speaker 1 (48:12):
You know, I go I go to.

Speaker 2 (48:15):
Meetings every day, three meetings a day where nobody talks
about alcohol. And they're all alcoholics and drug addicts. All
they talk about is God, the Lord's Scripture and stuff
like that. And they're all in AA and they got
ten twenty thirty forty years and they're all happy as clams.
They surround themselves with like minded people that don't just

(48:38):
choose the sixth step and say, oh, yeah, the sixth
step any day. They live a six step life, you understand.
And so when I go to meetings, you know what
I do. I talk about the same stuff I talk
about the meanings I go to every day, and.

Speaker 1 (48:51):
Those people stay.

Speaker 2 (48:53):
You know why, because when you believe in God and
you're a believer, it doesn't wear off.

Speaker 1 (48:58):
After an hour.

Speaker 2 (49:00):
You wake up thinking about them, you go to sleep
thinking about them. All through the day, you're thinking about them.
It doesn't wear off. The army doesn't wear off. And
if you're involved, and the problem is, if you're not
involved in it, you just don't know.

Speaker 1 (49:20):
So it sounds like too good to be true. I mean,
we're alcoholics. It's too good.

Speaker 2 (49:23):
Yeah, if it's oh that was bad, Oh, it must
be true, you know what I mean, we're alcoholics. It's
too good to be true if you're involved in it.
And I'm gonna tell you something, it's a very strange
sort of thing. We get newcomers. We get guys with like,
you know, three or four days and they've been going
to these meetings for four or five years now because
from all over the world, and they're like doing phenomenal.

(49:46):
You know, there's stuff about you're killing newcomers, kill them newcomers.
It makes newcomers and newcomers become old timers.

Speaker 1 (49:55):
You know. That's the deal.

Speaker 2 (49:56):
That's the that's the thing that helps you contin because
if you don't do the sixth step and you're not
trying to grow in the image and likeness of God,
and you're not talking about that, and you're not doing
the seventh step, and you're not trying to make him
constantly conscious?

Speaker 1 (50:11):
Cond what is conscious? Contact me?

Speaker 2 (50:13):
You don't conscious God. We're not talking about unconscious. We're
talking about conscious. That means you're thinking about Him all
the time. And if you're thinking about Him fifty percent
of the time, you know what you're doing.

Speaker 1 (50:21):
You're trying to improve that. It says we approve our conscious.
How do you improve fifty.

Speaker 2 (50:27):
Percent of time thinking about God? You shoot for sixty percent,
you shoot for seventy percent.

Speaker 1 (50:34):
Well, but how am I going to do my life?

Speaker 2 (50:35):
No?

Speaker 1 (50:36):
You can. You can take a shit and think about God.
I'm telling you I've done it. You can.

Speaker 2 (50:45):
You can take a shower and think about God.

Speaker 1 (50:47):
You can do complex legal.

Speaker 2 (50:49):
Cases and think about God. You can go to meetings
and think about God. You can drive a car and
think about God. You'd be shocked. But that's not cool,
is it? What are other people going to think about you?
But you can live a life worry about what other
people think?

Speaker 1 (51:05):
About you.

Speaker 2 (51:06):
Or you can live a life not worrying about what
anybody thinks about you.

Speaker 1 (51:10):
I mean, you only got one life. I mean, this
ain't like a what.

Speaker 2 (51:13):
Is this saying like a dress rehearsal. You can live
a life worrying about what some guy who's sitting next
to you, who's not even paying your visa bill thinks
about you. Or you can live a life of freedom.
You could be free. You see, now, what does that
have to do with the tense? Somebody has everything to
do with the tent step. Well, it has everything to

(51:36):
do with the tent step in the AI practice, in
the one I practice, okay, which you don't have to
be interested in, but I've got to exposure to it.

Speaker 1 (51:46):
I want to exposure to it.

Speaker 2 (51:47):
So maybe one day down the road you might think,
I think I want that deal.

Speaker 1 (51:52):
That's the deal I'm interested in. So thank you very
much