Final Destination 2 (2003) | Episode #153

We’re staring into the abyss of 2003’s Final Destination 2 to see what will gaze back. Cole Daniel Hills, writer/director of The Dreadful Place, an official selection of Horrific Hope Film Festival 2025, joins us to talk about his film, the infamous log truck, cinematic missteps & more.

The Dreadful Place is an official selection of Horrific Hope Film Festival. Click here to get your tickets today!

If you or someone you know is reading this right now and struggling with suicide, depression, addiction, or self-harm - please reach out—comment, message, or tweet’ at us. Go to victimsandvillains.net/hope for more resources. Call the suicide lifeline at 988. Text "HELP" to 741-741. There is hope & you DO have so much value and worth!

Abyss Gazing: A Horror Podcast is a production of Victims and Villains is written by Josh “Captain Nostalgia” Burkey (& produced by) & Billy Tabor. Music for this episode comes courtesy of Kevin MacLeod (https://bit.ly/agktheme) & Purple Planet (https://bit.ly/ppcoms).

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:06):
Welcome to a Biscaysing, a horror podcast where we celebrate
all things spooky and mental health.

Speaker 2 (00:11):
This is Billy. I'm wondering if it's a dream or reality.

Speaker 1 (00:17):
I'm your other co host, dodging all of the giant
logs heading my way. You know, this is a movie
that traumatized me. But before we introduce our guests with this,
we just want to just briefly just kind of give
you guys, it'll just be me and Billy for the
foreseeable future. Of Mark is going to take a bit
of a hiatus to focus on his own mental health,

(00:38):
which is super important. Part of the reason that we
paused the show at the beginning of the year was
for me to focus on my mental health. And so
we're we will be riding Shotgun being Billy for the
foreseeable future. We might have some guests hosts pop in
here and there, but we are joined. We're on this episode,

(01:01):
uh to talk about final destination too. But before I
said last week, where you guys are going to be
hearing a lot of the directors who are making up
the features for this year's Horrific Hope Film Festival. As
we've done in the years past and on this episode
we are joined by Cole Daniel Hills. He is the writer, director,

(01:23):
and star one of the stars very small role in
this one, but this he is from the movie called
The Dreadful Place.

Speaker 3 (01:32):
Wait, thanks, thanks for having me.

Speaker 2 (01:34):
This is awesome.

Speaker 1 (01:35):
It's uh, I gotta say, like, so, I rewatched the
movie today and I like did never put like two
or two together to realize that you were like in
the film. So like seeing you here now is kind
of like you're dressed down from what I'm compared to
seeing you, and.

Speaker 3 (01:48):
I look a little different. I might act a little
different too.

Speaker 2 (01:52):
Well.

Speaker 1 (01:53):
Yeah, so, uh, The Dreadful Place is going to be
headlining our Saturday kickoff block, The Art of Dread to
be playing with some fantastic short films called Litterbug, Tormented Pain,
and Gain a short short documentary, and Cole is also
going to be in person this year, so you guys
will get too completely separate Q And As for this movie,

(02:15):
but this one, can you guys, can you tell us
a little bit about this movie?

Speaker 3 (02:19):
Yeah? Well, it is a like surreal psychological horror movie
about a woman who, nearing the anniversary of her father's death,
finds herself spiraling and getting trapped in a nightmare that
she has to kind of fight her way out of.

Speaker 2 (02:35):
So I'm wondering what gave you the idea to shoot
the movie the way you did.

Speaker 3 (02:40):
So it a lot of things kind of led up
to this. It's a very post COVID movie. The idea
for it came to me, I think in twenty twenty
one when we were still kind of breaking out of
the pandemic. I I'm sure a lot of us spent
a lot of time alone with our thoughts, and that
is basically the basis of this screenplay is you know,

(03:05):
you have a lot of time with yourself, a lot
of time to think and dwell on things, and your
perception of the past changes based on, you know, your
moods and such. So yeah, I really wanted to write
something that kind of focused on that. And the way
we shot the film, I wanted to be very intimate
and close up with each character and specifically Willow, so

(03:28):
we're we're really close with her a lot of the time,
with like a shaky kind of handheld feel.

Speaker 1 (03:35):
This movie has such an interesting and beautiful color palette
as well. You know, just kind of talking about it
it's and I'll be I'll be very real. It's very
kind of it's hard to talk about this movie with
that kind of jumping into the spoilers of that Billy
knows about talking about. So for like, yeah, this was
like a very technological, just more tech based approach. Can

(03:58):
you kind of talk about how you guys were able
to really kind of bring out some maybe more of
those color palettes that you know, kind of maybe representative
of Willow's kind of art throughout the course of the
movie into kind of that visual representation.

Speaker 3 (04:17):
Yeah. Absolutely, Well, a lot of sorry, I'm on kind
of a busy street if you hear some traffic go by,
hopefully no log trucks. But but yeah, yeah, definitely color
played a lot into the story. We wanted to tell
a lot of the visual motifs are have a lot
to do with color. We have the red tie, We

(04:39):
have a turquoise or teal color that appears pretty often
throughout the film that that represents like a little bit
of hope. Yeah, I mean we wanted to have well,
first of all, a lot of it goes to like
getting very practical. The diner that that we were very
lucky to shoot in her workplace, which a lot of

(05:01):
it takes place there. We have a lot of greens
and yellows throughout the film, just kind of to tie
into the location, and and we match that with set
design and wardrobe to to kind of give the feeling
that these things are all kind of blending together.

Speaker 1 (05:19):
I also kind of wanted to so there's a there's
a scene that's very practical kind of throughout the and
it some of it I know from having friends that
have done h independent film before and also at the
same time, uh, having many filmmakers on our on the
podcast as well. Uh, there is this one of the

(05:39):
things that kind of is a common motif that kind
of shows up. It's actually this this polka dot tie.
And I was gonna bring it up billion of or
kind of texting back and forth today, but you know,
it almost kind of seems like that tie and kind
of some of the patterns of polka dot it's almost
kind of taunts kind of willow throughout the course of it,
because polka dots just kind of like looking at the

(06:03):
meaning for what it kind of talks about from according
to an article from Cambridge, kind of also talks about
it's this it doesn't mean a array of things, but
it also kind of doesn't mean a lot of these
like playfulness, whimsy, and like kind of like a care
free spirit. So it kind of almost seems like a
lot of the people that are around her are almost

(06:28):
kind of mocking her because she is kind of in
this very destruct very disturbed kind of state, unable to
kind of shake these dreams and these thoughts and these memories.

Speaker 3 (06:38):
Yeah, definitely the cartoonish nature of the polka dots and
that tie appearing and reappearing, that is definitely a thought
that I had. I kind of wanted to portray what
she's going through. It's obviously scary and it's it's a nightmare,
but I wanted to portray it with a little bit
of whimsy, and it's almost like a fun house, like

(07:00):
a really messed up fun house and kind of bleeds
into I wanted there's a lot of vibrant colors in
it throughout as well, and I wanted to kind of
portray the fact that her childhood is kind of bleeding
into into this nightmare as well and playing a part
in it. So that is definitely, Uh, that was definitely

(07:21):
a thought that I had.

Speaker 2 (07:23):
So what about the lore of the sleep Demon. I
can't think what it's called. I never heard of it before.
But yeah, is that something you knew or something you
kind of was brought to you and you used in.

Speaker 3 (07:37):
This or yeah, I had known about the Mayor prior
to writing the screenplay. In the first draft, the Mayor
did not make an appearance. The first draft was very
much like without without spoiling anything, it was quite different.
It doesn't have like the whole, the whole reasoning behind
her her nightmare. That was not a part of the

(07:58):
first the first draft, and the Mayor itself was a
later addition. I actually took a course with Philip Eisner,
who was the screenwriter for Event Horizon, and he helped
me go through go through the script and and re
like figure figure things out. But he had a lot
of cool notes. One of them was that we need

(08:18):
to have some sort of antagonistic creature or just like
something that's more tangible, like a tangible antagonist, which I
both liked and then had fun playing with too.

Speaker 2 (08:33):
That's awesome.

Speaker 1 (08:34):
Yeah, like I want to talk about the the the
kind of the third act, but also at the same time,
I'm like, there's so much spoilers, because.

Speaker 3 (08:45):
Whatever, whatever works for your whatever you want to do,
I'm open to it. If you want to say, hey,
there are spoilers.

Speaker 1 (08:52):
I I don't necessarily want to do spoilers. We are
like literally one week away from you guys being able
to purchase tickets to check this out. It's gonna be
celebrating it's Virginia premiere. But one of the things that
I did want to talk to Isles, Thank You, Thank You,
is the film uses a lot of symbolism, and I'm

(09:13):
always kind of challenged by writers and directors that take
on projects that are very heavy and these like multitude
of meanings, like David Lynch is my favorite director of
all time. And if you've seen you know, things like
Twin Peaks or a Raserhead, then like you know that
like it's or even Mahalan Drive Like there, it's just

(09:34):
this very deeply like layered and from its like visual
cues to its its use of symbolism, can you kind
of talk about crafting a world that seems very traditional
on the surface, but then upon multiple rewatches, like this
is my second time watching it, so it's like there's

(09:55):
just kind of this depth that you're you feel.

Speaker 3 (09:58):
Yeah, a lot of a lot of the symbol comes
from emotion over over research. Really, the way I wrote
the script was, I mean I stayed up, I stayed
up late, so there there's a lot of insomnia actually
bleeding into this script. As I was writing it. It
was very The first draft was a very stream of consciousness,

(10:20):
and the symbols just kind of came to me. I
didn't do as I was initially writing it. I wasn't thinking, oh,
what is this, what does this mean? What does this mean?
Was this mean? I was just kind of feeling it
out as I was going along, and things sort of
came to to gather meaning. But yeah, I think I
wrote it from a very like fractured state, and and yeah, yeah,

(10:46):
I don't know, it's it's it's definitely it's It's full
of symbolism, for sure, but it's it's all comes from
a place of feeling.

Speaker 2 (10:56):
Yeah, the fractured state and everything worked for dude, that's
what you. I watched it twice when we were doing
the judging, and then I watched it again now and
I'm still picking stuff.

Speaker 1 (11:07):
Out of it.

Speaker 3 (11:08):
That's awesome, that's what we want. That's cool.

Speaker 1 (11:12):
I think this was probably gonna be my last question.
We'll do a commercial break, But I think you might
be one of the very few directors or filmmakers that
we've had on the show. But I think in my knowledge,
you might be the very first one we've ever had.
But being an actor also alongside your cast and then
directing them, can you talk about the challenges of existing

(11:34):
into the film that you're in but also the same
type of like having the direct scenes where like you're
also acting in them.

Speaker 3 (11:43):
Yeah. I started out acting. I did a bunch of
auditions when I was a kid and obviously didn't go
very far. But I ended up falling in love with
behind the camera stuff even more. But this is my
second feature. The first one I did, I put myself.
I put myself in kind of the starring role, which

(12:07):
was a nightmare in and of itself. I love acting,
so I was happy to do something in this one.
But yeah, I cut down on my screen time and
it was. It was good because I think it played
into things because the character that I play in this
is almost orchestrating things in a certain way, so I

(12:28):
think it takes on a more sinister like director role almost,
So it was it was interesting. It was fun well.

Speaker 1 (12:36):
Like like I said earlier, you guys can check out
The Dreadful Place. It's gonna be celebrating it's Virginia premiere
on August fifteenth and sixteenth at the Horrific Hope Film
festal the only film vessel that is horor centric and
mental health focus. Not only that, we are gonna be
showcasing you guys great other short films that are gonna

(12:57):
be making up this The Letter the litter Bug, which
one third place last year at our screenwriting competition, as
well as Torment. It also celebrating its Virginia premiere, and
then the micro documentary Pain and Offering. Tickets are gonna
be all to sale next week beginning June eighteenth via
the Alamo website. We're gonna take a quick commercial break.

(13:19):
When we get back, we're gonna be talking about the
defining horror film of my generation, Final Destination too. We'll
be right back. If you were someone you know is
listening to this podcast right now and you're struggling with suicide, addiction,
self harm, or depression, we encourage you guys to please
reach out. This is the heartbeat or why we do

(13:41):
what we do Suicide is currently the tenth leading cause
of death in the United States, and as of this recording,
there are one hundred and thirty two suicides that take
place each and every day on American soil, and when
you scale back internationally, there are eight hundred thousand successful suicides.
That is one death roughly every forty seconds. So if

(14:03):
you were someone you know was struggling, you guys can
go to Victims and Villains and dot net forward slash
hope that resource is going to be right in the
description wherever you guys are currently listening or streaming this,
there you'll find resources that include the National Suicide Lifeline,
which is one eight hundred two seven three eighty two
fifty five. You can also text help to seven four

(14:25):
one seven four one. You also have a plethora of
other resources including churches, getting connected with counselors, LGBT resources
like the Trevor Project, and also a veteran hotline as well. Please,
if you hear nothing else in the show, understand that you, yes,

(14:46):
you listen to this right now, have value and worth.
We get it. Suicide, depression, mental health. These are hard
topics and this stigma around them doesn't make it any easier,
but please can say what do the resources right in
the descriptions below wherever you guys are listening, because once
again you have value any of work, so please stay

(15:10):
with us. Welcome back to a Biscuits a Horror podcast
where we are going to be jumping into final destination two.
I think a lot of people remember this movie for
the log truck.

Speaker 2 (15:27):
And that's about it, and the fact that they used
that to campaign for Bloodlines tells you a lot. Yeah,
that was like a scene that anybody that's seen this
movie relates to to this day. I will not log truck.
I'll either try to get around it as quick as
I can, or I will stay like fifty to one

(15:49):
hundred feet back away from it in a different lane.

Speaker 1 (15:53):
So yeah, yeah, yeah, it's funny. My wife and I
we went and did about a year ago. We went
and did like long vacation like an Airbnb, and we
ended up getting part of the route that we had
to take was like back country roads, and we ended
up behind a log truck. And I was just like, nope,

(16:13):
just left it, get in front of it, let's go
as fast as you can.

Speaker 3 (16:17):
Yeah, you do not drop behind that thing.

Speaker 1 (16:21):
My wife didn't grow up on these movies, so like
for her, like she doesn't have that like embedded trauma,
and I'm just like I do so please for the
sake of my own mental health drive Elsewhere.

Speaker 3 (16:34):
We're seen combined with whatever happens at the beginning of
The Discent. Have you seen that movie? Something similar happens there.
I'm like, any anytime I see like a bunch of
things be on the back of some truck, no going
I'm going right around.

Speaker 2 (16:49):
Yeah. And I mean this movie had other stuff in it,
but like I said, the log truck is the biggest thing.
Everybody knows it for.

Speaker 1 (16:56):
The log truck is very so this movie is very
equivalent to an other movie that was released a few
months after this, and that is one of my favorites
is Big Fat Liar, and it's it's one of those
movies that like if people if you ask people specifically
about the like the plot and the narrative, they're like,
I couldn't tell you anything, but they could tell you

(17:16):
about the bluepool scene as very much. Here it's like
where it's like, oh, I can't tell you like exactly
like how this movie comes together or what it's about,
but I could tell you about the log scene and
how it traumatized me from driving mm hmm, definitely.

Speaker 2 (17:33):
I mean I started picking stuff up on the rewatch.

Speaker 3 (17:36):
So yeah, I think this entire this disaster out of
I love this franchise, but I think this is maybe
the best opening disaster out of the films.

Speaker 1 (17:47):
Yeah, I I could, I could get behind that. I
totally forgot about like so much, so many of these
things that I've only seen this movie handful of times.
But like once you go to get together and you
kind of see how everything else is interacting. Yeah, God, Billy.

Speaker 2 (18:06):
No, I was gonna say, yeah, I mean Final Destination
is one of the classics. With this one. The opening
scene just is more traumatic to me than the plane explosion.

Speaker 1 (18:17):
So yeah, I mean I feel like, you know, I
feel like the reason why that is is because like
you're more I feel like you're more likely to encounter
something like the opening to this movie than you are
like a plane. Because a plane I feel like I
might do like once every four or five years, whereas

(18:37):
like I get in my car literally every day, like
six maybe seven days a week. So what's gonna have
really more of an impact on me?

Speaker 2 (18:48):
Well, not only that for instance, like we leave from
Richmond and go to like Dirham or whatever, we're passing
through Lynchburg and everything. There's all kinds of log d Dude,
tell me I'm wrong, tell me I'm wrong, you're not.

Speaker 3 (19:06):
I'm glad I'm not making that drive too often.

Speaker 1 (19:11):
So one of the things that I teased last week
that I was kind of curious and I wanted to see,
I did my own kind of reparation work that was
separate outside of this. So this movie is originally so
the originally the Final Destination movie was written and was
written by the writing team James Wong and Glenn Morgan.

(19:34):
There was another writer on that one as well, but
James Wong ended up directing the first film. When the
first film kind of became this like surprise hit, they
went back and said, hey, we'd like you guys for
to come up with it do another one. And they
had already signed on to do the Jetly movie, the
one for two thousand and one. If you guys remember

(19:56):
that movie, it's been a while, but yeah, I had
never seen it, so random shout out to Jason Statham
with hair super weird. But the director that they got
to come back and helm This one was David E. Ellis,

(20:17):
and David Ellis had only ever had one other film
credit to his name. Do either one of you know
what movie he directed for this one?

Speaker 3 (20:27):
It was Homeword Bound to It was.

Speaker 4 (20:29):
Homeward Yeah, he directed, directed directed this one and then
like directed Homeward Bound.

Speaker 1 (20:43):
Didn't have anything until this one just randomly got picked.
And I was like I went back and watched Homeward
Bound too in preparation for this, and I was like,
all right, Like why did they choose him? Like what
was like the secret thing? And I was like, Oh,
he just doesn't know how to do good storytelling. They
just needed a really shitty filmmaker, got.

Speaker 3 (21:03):
It, Dude, I almost did the same thing. I was
thinking about it, like right like a couple hours before
we did this, I'm like, should I watch Homeward Down too?

Speaker 2 (21:12):
I didn't know. I didn't think about it. I probably
should have.

Speaker 3 (21:15):
Lost in San Francisco. Is that what it was?

Speaker 2 (21:17):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (21:18):
Yeah, I thought I had seen that as a kid.
I remember the first watching the first movie. My cousins
watched it all the time, and I never got around
to watching the second movie, So like I googled it
I was like, do I have to watch the first
film in where to understand second one? It's kind of
like this like anthology film, like you don't really need
to know. And I was just like, wow, this is

(21:40):
this is really bad, like really bad, like in terms
of like the Final Destination movies, this is definitely one
of the lower points. And I'm kind of curious how
you guys feel if I'm alone in this like this,
This for me was like probably bottom of the barrel.
Not quite as bad as Final Destination four, but.

Speaker 3 (22:02):
I have I think Final Destination four is so ridiculously
cartoony that I have a like, I have a little
bit of a soft spot for that movie. It's bad.
But Final Destination two, I don't know this movie. This
movie is I don't know. I would agree this might
be the bottom of my list. I don't remember five

(22:24):
very much, but this might be the bottom. I only
remember one thing about five.

Speaker 1 (22:29):
I love five. Okay, five is like five is probably
my second favorite in the franchise, the first one, so Billy,
what about you.

Speaker 2 (22:39):
I'm trying to remember which one five was.

Speaker 1 (22:45):
Well, we'll talk about it in a few weeks.

Speaker 2 (22:46):
So yeah, that's what I'm saying, I gotta remember, I
know what most of them are. So this one, except
for the one scene that we've all already mentioned, Yeah,
it's it's forgettable to me.

Speaker 1 (22:59):
So and I think, like the like when I look
when I think about the franchise as a whole, we'll
kind of talk about this as like the series kind
of develops, But like, when you look at it, what
the mad the first film, so Rememberable was not necessarily
the fact that we had literally personified death and kind
of brought this in there. But there is this emotional

(23:23):
core that just feels absent from this film because when
you look at the first film, you look at the
third film, when you look at the fourth film, or
the start of the fifth film, these like things that
are like really work really well. Is this film just
kind of collects a bunch of strangers and just kind
of forces them to endure this trauma together. When you

(23:44):
have people that are already connected, I feel like it
kind of makes that experience a little bit stronger.

Speaker 2 (23:50):
Well, technically they were strangers, but were connected.

Speaker 1 (23:54):
Yes, they're forced to be connected though, Like well.

Speaker 2 (23:58):
I mean the car scene. I never caught onto the
car scene until I watched it again the fact that
they were telling each story and how and then they
started picking out well that was related to this passenger
from the flight and this passenger from the flight. So
that's how they're connected. They're alive because of the deaths
of all the people from the flight.

Speaker 3 (24:21):
All right, I'll give you that they're connected, but they don't.
They don't know each other, no exactly. It misses out
on a little bit of emotional stakes or something like that.

Speaker 2 (24:31):
I agree, connective, and they're connected, but not emotionally connected, right,
connected story wise by.

Speaker 1 (24:39):
I guess let me rephrase that. So, like what I'm
talking about is when you look at the first film,
you have this core group of core group of people
that you know they might have been best friends, but
like they all knew each other, they all had this
like shared history. And I think that's kind of what
I missed on this one, and is that you don't

(25:01):
have that connect connective tissue. It is just people that
are just kind of you know, forced to be together
under these like dire circumstances.

Speaker 2 (25:13):
Yeah, you don't have the bully and the other guy
that's scared and all fight with each other where they
actually know the inner workings of each other. Yeah, I agree.

Speaker 1 (25:22):
Yeah, Like I I will say that, like I do
think that the connective tissue to like you know, these
people and Flight one eighty, I thought that was like
a cool like thing that I had forgotten about. So Billy,
I will give you that. I agree with you. I
think it's a I think it's a good touch. But like,
for the most part, like there's just so much about

(25:44):
this movie that I feel like I really wish that
would have been like struck, either structured differently or like
have like made something else, because I think at the
end of the the end of the day, like I
think they just did the cast in the first film
real dirty.

Speaker 2 (25:59):
Yeah, I know that that scene in the car, and
I haven't seen the new movie yet that was holding off,
So I know that scene, and I've seen a couple
of commercials. I think they took that scene and built it,
built off of that for the new movie, based on
some of the commercials I've seen, because I've heard some
of the storylines that's supposed to be in it. But

(26:20):
I'm gonna stay spoiler free because I don't even know
the bloodline yet, so I can't spoil it.

Speaker 1 (26:26):
I will neither confirm nor tonight as the person that's
seen it.

Speaker 3 (26:29):
I loved it, and that's all I'll say.

Speaker 1 (26:32):
Yeah, it's a fun time.

Speaker 2 (26:34):
But I started picking things out on this movie, like,
for instance, the guy that won the lottery, what was that, Frankie?
Is that right? Yeah? I never noticed that on the
fridge that when he puts the noodles down and closes
fridge to h falls, did you realize what it spells
in the fridge wouldn't spell I? How did he die?

Speaker 3 (27:00):
Yeah? That's that's fun. That stuff is awesome.

Speaker 2 (27:04):
It's like little things like that were in there that
I started paying I started paying attention to because, like
Josh had said in the past, well, you're not watching
the movie for fun as much as you do. You
start critiquing it, you start getting up little stuff. Well.

Speaker 1 (27:21):
One of the things that like Andy brought this up
during our one hundred and fifty eth episode when we
did Halloween is the podcast that he recommends they have
an interview with the cinematographer of Halloween nineteen seventy eight,
and and then he talks about how when you watch

(27:41):
a film as an audience, you have a tendency to
have a central character that your eyes, wonder, and the
reason that so many horror movies use shadows and have
such a good impact about, you know, really utilizing a
lot of those things is because your eyes are trained

(28:02):
to essentially focus on the people. You're not watching the
corners or the backgrounds. And ever since I've heard that
interview that that podcast has been out for seven years now,
and ever since that, I've always kind of watched around
the eyes because you never know what you miss. I mean,

(28:22):
you have filmmakers like David Lynch, John I'm sorry, Jordan Peel,
you know that are just very intentional about using that
back space to really be purposeful to kind of showcasing that.
And you know, Ryan Coogler Sinners, I think is also
like another extraordinary example of that. To really utilize that

(28:45):
background and the mythology and the really elevating that world
to feel lived in. That's how you accomplish that.

Speaker 3 (28:53):
Yeah, that's awesome. I think about that. That Death with
the Ladder is so wild, the fact that he just
randomly throws spaghetti out the window just so we can
slip in it later, and like it's so insane. I
kind of love it. I kind of love it.

Speaker 2 (29:12):
I mean I'm the guy yelling at him. Wash the
pan man, just wash.

Speaker 3 (29:16):
The real.

Speaker 1 (29:19):
Look, when you're a bachelor and you live alone, man,
you don't give a rat's ass about that.

Speaker 3 (29:26):
He's also cooking like frozen mozarellistics on the stove is
another another thing that I'm like, Wow, this is Hey,
maybe we all get to try it.

Speaker 2 (29:35):
Maybe maybe seasoning. I don't know.

Speaker 1 (29:37):
Yeah, I will say though there you can definitely feel
the absence of Morgan and Wong here because when you
think about the first film there I talked about this
last year is last week. You know, the the sequels
kind of become more elaborate. This film feels very much
akin to the Soul franchise, whereas you look the very

(30:00):
first trap ever set the first film like it's it's
this very simplistic, almost elegant kind of trap, and the
deaths in my first mount the Station feel that same way.
And then you have you know, the spaghetti and the
latter death that just kind of feel like it's like, okay,
like we went from a guy like literally slipping on

(30:25):
water and choking to death by a shower wire to
now spaghetti in a ladder, like it's just it feels
like a very like it's very goofy kind of like
this like goofy juxaposition to the first film.

Speaker 2 (30:40):
Yeah, and I know they threw so many things at
some of these deaths, like the depth. We're talking about
this guy's arm in the garbage disposal and the microwave
is about to explode and the stoves catching him fire
and then he hits the pan, and oh, is that
what's gonna kill him? It's like at a certain point,
it's too many things. You're growing at it too. I

(31:02):
understand they were trying to force them out the apartment,
but it felt like they were throwing so much at
it that it was overkilled to me.

Speaker 3 (31:10):
Yeah, it's uh, it becomes Yeah, it becomes more about
the gimmick and the shock of the deaths rather than
the suspense, which I think was there throughout the first movie,
which I also I rewatched last night. I watched the
first movie last night and then this one today, so
like very recently, so it's very fresh in my head.
But yeah, it becomes more about like the gimmick of

(31:33):
you know, things falling and knocking other things down and
you know, red herrings. But it's actually the spaghetti that
gets them. That's what it meant.

Speaker 1 (31:44):
I'm kind of curious, like you bring up, you know,
the kind of gimmicks in this one. This one very
much so clear feels like a gimmick to me, and
I'm kind of curious how either one of you guys
kind of felt. She just feels so incredibly shoehorned tear
to me, it.

Speaker 2 (32:02):
Felt like they brought her back just to have some
kind of tie to the first movie, without the oh,
it's a year later and all this stuff weird is
happening again.

Speaker 3 (32:11):
I think Ali Larder is a I enjoy her presence
in the in the film. She's good and she's she's likable.
But it could have been any character from the first
movie just coming to be like just a walking exposition
dump pretty much, just like, hey, here's the rule, and
then her death.

Speaker 2 (32:32):
I think it would have been good. It might have
been better if it was Devinsau a little bit, just
because he was the main character and the one that
had the premonition, but they would have had to still
tweak the storyline to make it better.

Speaker 1 (32:46):
It irritated me to no end that they literally just
took him and Carter and just kind of wrote them
off in this like one throwaway line where they're like, yeah,
so the kids of you know, the survivors of Flight
one and all of this other shenanigans like they died
you know, such and such such like you know that.
I think they died like a cabin Like it's such

(33:08):
a throwaway line.

Speaker 2 (33:09):
Did they say no, they now Carter. It showed and
it cut away right where he with the signs. So
they literally killed him off at the end of the movie.
Devin Sawah, they said he got killed by a brick.
I'm like, come on, really, I was like, give him
something more than that. You should have put that. Put
something in the beginning of the movie showing his death

(33:31):
and then built off of it. That would have been
better to me, because.

Speaker 3 (33:34):
That would be.

Speaker 2 (33:36):
Throwing away his character. His character not one hundred percent.
But to me, that made the first movie that was
we were following him, yeah, based on him.

Speaker 3 (33:47):
So I think the ensemble cast in the first movie
in general was a lot better and more memorable than
this one. I know, the guy who played Carter. I
loved Dawson's Creek. He was on since Creak for so
much of it. But uh, yeah, I do think the
characters is where this this one really falls short. We

(34:08):
know pretty much nothing about anyone other than just like
basic surface level things or like the one the one
woman like smokes a lot, like and then that leads
to someone blowing up, or that the barbed wire death.

Speaker 1 (34:25):
Back to But yeah, I will say though that like, uh,
it's I wrote it down in my notes. It's very
it's very ironic to me that they, uh, they're there.
Cat is a character that is chronically seen with a cigarette,
like literally a object that has so much scientific data

(34:49):
on it that causes death. And they're just kind of like, ah,
she's just like chain smoking, you know. She's like I'm
sweeping from my turn.

Speaker 3 (34:57):
Yeah that's crazy.

Speaker 2 (34:59):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (35:01):
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Speaker 2 (36:04):
And her acting like a bitch the whole time she
got what she was was coming, but damned that the
firefighter could have handled that different. It's like, no, you
want me to be quiet? Here you go.

Speaker 3 (36:17):
It's like, yeah, that was crazy.

Speaker 2 (36:19):
I was like, you know that, that's not the way
they're going to react, especially knowing that there's an airbag
that's going to go off. There's no way that thing
wasn't going off, if it wasn't set off already.

Speaker 3 (36:29):
I completely forgot about that. That death then, I was
just saying I was shocked. I was like, well, that's crazy.

Speaker 1 (36:38):
Yeah. I also like, you know, going back to uh clear,
like I understand why they brought her back because they
kind of set her up in the first film as
having this like psychic connection to Alex and like you
know that she has the whole scene where you know,
I felt it when you saw when you had that premonition,

(37:01):
like I felt it all of the emotions that you're processing,
like I'm feeling that, and like they kind of try
to establish that is kind of like the through line
between these two movies. Ah, just it doesn't work. Like
you guys said, like you literally could have picked anybody
from that first film. You could literally have said, hey,

(37:22):
there's a character that you didn't even meet in the
first film that was on flight one eighty and this
is how they had the exposition dump.

Speaker 2 (37:31):
But technically you couldn't because they said the only people
that lived from one eight were the ones that were
in the cast.

Speaker 1 (37:39):
Ah that's true, that's fair.

Speaker 2 (37:42):
I get what you're saying, but I'm saying, based on
the storyline that they had, the only ones that survived
were the ones that stepped off the plane.

Speaker 1 (37:49):
The teacher comes back like Michael Myers and Halloween four
and just super burns and she's like, I've tried to
warn you.

Speaker 2 (37:58):
That would be great, that would really plice up the
movie might make it better.

Speaker 3 (38:06):
Hey you never, That's what I'm saying. Yeah, Clear's clearest
part in this movie is so it could have been something.
I think she's the only the only character who other
than Tony Todd, who appears in more than one of
these movies. And I'm just I'm just confused as to

(38:26):
why they decided to go this route. Yeah, it's interesting.
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (38:32):
Yeah, I mean, I'm glad that they kept Tony Todd,
that that made sense to me, keeping him as the
one central person and mm hmm death kind of visualized.
But bringing her back like like we're all saying, and
like we've said times, it's just and it's not towards
her like an actress. I like her, and yeah, it's

(38:53):
just this particular role just you know.

Speaker 1 (38:58):
I mean, in all fairness, like Devin's well, like I
don't know why they didn't invite him back, Like wasn't
wasn't doing nearly anything he did, didn't do anything in
two thousand and one. He did a slacker stoner comedy
in uh twenty or two thousand and two calleds uh

(39:19):
literally called Slackers with Jason Stiegel and Jason Schwartzman also
has Donna from that seventies show in it, did a
movie called Extreme Ops and then did the Spider Man
television series. So it's like, it's not like he was,
you know, like out here, like you know, doing these

(39:42):
like big budget films, Like I don't know why they
didn't like maybe he was like I was the star
of the first film. It was of a surprise, you know,
give me like more money than you think. And Ali
latter kind of was like I'll do it for half that.

Speaker 3 (39:55):
Yeah, could have been or could.

Speaker 2 (39:58):
Have any read the script and it was like, yeah,
I'm not feeling it. You never know, I.

Speaker 1 (40:05):
Really hope it is the letter.

Speaker 3 (40:08):
What the latter with the spaghetti and but yeah, I
don't know. I think you probably I think having him
in Clear's role probably maybe would have elevated this a
little bit. But then again, it's just the way she's written.
It's not even it's not even necessarily that she's back,
it's just the way she's written. And I don't think

(40:30):
like even just having her in a padded room and
where she is when we meet her kind of I
don't know, I feel like it diminishes the arc of
the first movie somehow. I don't know. It's it's an
interesting It's not a choice that I enjoy. But this
movie has a lot of strange makes a lot of
strange choices that I just don't get.

Speaker 1 (40:50):
One of the strangest choices too, that like struck me
is the way this movie ends, Like so we meet
a character that I am gonna pull up the cast
for real quick, so we mee a character like maybe
halfway through this movie is they like end up on
this farm somehow and Noel Fisher, who if you grew

(41:15):
up in my generation, you know from Max Peopel's big move,
but like he ends up kind of like walking our
characters like Kim through a lot of the stuff and
they're like they're all like having this like barbecue at
the end and that like he just explodes like spontaneous kimbush.

(41:41):
It Like this movie just makes like you said it
like cool, Like it just makes like ridiculously like strange choices.

Speaker 3 (41:49):
This the ending of this movie is very like we
could talk about this. We talk about this a lot,
I feel like because because so he gets pushed out
of the way, this character earlier in the film gets
pushed out of the way by the cooke head, Like
the koke head saves him. I think, yeah, push out

(42:09):
of the way when when a car is gonna hit him,
or like a van's gonna hit him, So we get
saved by one of them. So they connect it to
the fact that all these people survived things because of
one eighty Flight one eighty however long ago they connected
to like, oh, these people survived this disaster and then
saved this person, so he's going to die later on.
But the question I have is not so much to

(42:32):
do with that, because I think they wanted that to
just be like a cute little button on the movie,
like oh, one last death, Yeah, does he.

Speaker 2 (42:38):
Just blow up?

Speaker 3 (42:39):
What happens there?

Speaker 1 (42:40):
It's just like combustion, Like he's like, I'm gonna go
back into the grind.

Speaker 3 (42:44):
It's crazy. But so the big question I have though,
because I haven't watched Final Destination three, four five very recently,
but do they survive design at the end of this movie,
because I for sure thought we were gonna get a

(43:04):
scene where at the very end they're like, oh, wait, yeah,
we I drowned and then was resuscitated. But it didn't
really you know, defeat death. But we don't see the
two main characters who survived. We don't see them die.
Do we ever get confirmation that they survived or died?

Speaker 2 (43:23):
I don't remember it. I don't remember confirmation. I just
remember the look that they give each other on this movie,
and I don't ever remember seeing them again.

Speaker 3 (43:31):
Yeah, I definitely don't think we see them again.

Speaker 1 (43:34):
No, I don't think we see them again. I think
that I think this movie kind of becomes a little
bit more serialized after this, and like the only kind
of time that you ever call back to any other
previous movie is Flight one eighty. Like I think Flight
one eighty is kind of like the consistency here. But yeah,
it's super super weird that like he just kind of

(43:57):
does it. And I really wish this movie would kind
of take the approach that Friday the Thirteenth does with
its like first like let's say first three movies, where
it's like you kind of get to see what happens
to the final girl and the cold opening. I think
that this movie kind of really could have been These
movies could benefit from that to where like you get

(44:19):
to like see the cold opening with like the the
actors that kind of play the survivors, and like what
happens to their characters, Like do they like go back
to life as normal? Did they die like in some
freak accent, like six months after the events of you know, uh,
the movie that we just watched, Like this movie, this

(44:40):
franchise missed out on that. Like I feel like if
there was anyone that would keep that tradition alive from
those early Slashers, it would it should have been this,
this franchise.

Speaker 3 (44:50):
That would be cool. I would like that. Yeah, because
as far as I know, if you would have asked
me if anybody ever survives these movies before today, I
would have said, no, nobody survives these movies. But to me,
the ending implies that they defeated Death's design. And then
unless Noel Fisher's character blowing up is supposed to be

(45:11):
like restart the cycle or something, I don't know.

Speaker 2 (45:15):
I mean that's what I was reading into it when
they gave each other the look was oh crap, he
was brought into it. So that killed the idea of
us resetting it because we didn't count him. But that's
reading into the movie, and you never know which way
they were going with it.

Speaker 1 (45:31):
Gotcha, Yeah, what if they had like super like lame
gass like off screen, like you know, one of them
like choked him like an onion at the barbecue and
it just like.

Speaker 3 (45:41):
Spit it out and it just it went straight through
the other guy's eye.

Speaker 2 (45:45):
I just I just his mom was hungry because she
got a full.

Speaker 3 (45:48):
Arm she did.

Speaker 5 (45:52):
Oh man, Yeah, I'm I'm kind of curious to hear
if you guys, either one of you guys has a
faceavorite death in this film and this one, Yes.

Speaker 3 (46:04):
I think, Uh, I think the glass the glass pane
is crazy. When the glass plane the pain just falls
and obliterates the kid. Yeah, it's it should it always
shocks me, it's not.

Speaker 2 (46:19):
Yeah, I mean the foreshadowing a little bit on that
one where it's looking at the fish tank and the
fish is stuck on the air tube and then all
of a sudden, the fish are in his mouth, the
fake fish where he's gonna choke and to find him.
That one's crazy, uh that? Yeah? That the fact that
it just smashes him is like that in the Barbecue. Honestly,

(46:40):
as comical as the Barbecue is the two I actually like, Yeah.

Speaker 1 (46:45):
I was gonna say the Barbecue one, it is my
favorite it is so over the top, and it's kind
of like like col A, like, you know, so we're
just gotta do like one more death and you know,
kind of get the people what they want. And it's
just it's so ridiculous that like it's like I'm to
go back for these seconds and then just spontaneously can bust.

Speaker 3 (47:04):
I like it. I'm a fan.

Speaker 2 (47:06):
And they said it up too, was like, oh, did
you hear that your friend saved him as he's walking away?

Speaker 3 (47:12):
I love they could say anything.

Speaker 2 (47:15):
They looked at each other and all you heard was boom.
I'm like, yeah, I liked how they set that one up.
And again, it's comical. It's over the top.

Speaker 3 (47:23):
It's like the knowledge. It's it's like the knowledge itself,
like them realizing what it happened is the thing that
finally made Death be like all right, we're gonna we're
gonna blow him up now. I feel like I feel
like Death is really having fun in this movie, just
being maybe Death's just like playing a big joke. He's
he I don't know what's going on, but he's he's

(47:44):
really playing with them, as seems before he finally kills them.
It's crazy.

Speaker 1 (47:49):
Yeah, I get buying that.

Speaker 2 (47:51):
Yeah, it's what you've seen my design. Oh when you
saw the shadow, it's a hook guy. Yeah, he just
grabbed her hair.

Speaker 3 (47:58):
It was the elevator guy, the hook guys. That's such
a strange scene.

Speaker 2 (48:05):
Man, it was just creepy as hell when you started
smelling her hair.

Speaker 3 (48:09):
But why did he start smelling her hair? I don't
why did they make that choice?

Speaker 2 (48:13):
I mean, I mean did they They're like somebody that
did that that.

Speaker 3 (48:17):
Was creepy or something, because maybe.

Speaker 2 (48:19):
Not alone is a creep factor for a lot of people,
just in general for females. It's yeah, I know some
people that have said that that a guy coming up,
just random guy coming up and walking by and your
hair smells nice? What so in fact that they use
that in this movie. I don't know if more people
are creeped out now because of this movie subconsciously, or

(48:42):
if that's always been a thing with.

Speaker 3 (48:44):
More people are smelling hair because of this movie.

Speaker 2 (48:47):
Josh, you gotta stop smelling hair.

Speaker 1 (48:49):
I know you lost, but it's it's just like people
are traumatized by two things from this movie, the log
truck and then just some old dude.

Speaker 3 (49:00):
They always have a box of mannequin like hooked mannequin arms.

Speaker 1 (49:06):
Oh these are these are.

Speaker 3 (49:10):
Hey?

Speaker 2 (49:10):
Just get in the elevator is cool.

Speaker 3 (49:13):
I forgot about that death too though, that that's pretty brutal.
And I feel like her character is the most grounded
character in the movie, kind of like as grounded as
it gets, which doesn't mean she's super layered, but I
feel like leading up to that scene, I was like, oh, man, like,
this is a woman who lost her son, and they
kind of they let her born. Yeah, they let her

(49:34):
grieve a little bit in a way that feels a
little bit more natural.

Speaker 2 (49:40):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (49:40):
Yeah, and then she just gets fully decapitated by an elevator.

Speaker 1 (49:46):
Bloom Cabama, Yeah splat. I uh. I think I think
it's fascinating the the mis interpretation that like this climax,
the climax of the movie kind of comes down to
about how the baby brings new life and that's like
how death is gonna stop it. And there's a pregnant

(50:08):
woman in the midst of like all of these survivors,
and like, I gotta say, that's that's probably like one
of like the most the lame. It's like this movie
has a pace and then it just like stops.

Speaker 2 (50:24):
I mean, I that is kind of lame. But when
it first came out, it was it was probably not
as predictable as it is now of to look over here,
you know, what's really this? Uh it could have been
at that time, like the first watch, it might have
been okay, But all the horror movies we've had since
this one, it's like, yeah, no, that's just predictable. That's

(50:47):
not what's gonna save you.

Speaker 3 (50:50):
I I hate I hate this aspect of the movie
so much. I remember my first watch. It didn't I've
only seen this movie twice. My first watch, I didn't
like this. And it's not even because I don't mind,
like you said, like a little bit of a bait
and switch, like this is what we're working towards a

(51:10):
crap it doesn't work. But it's the fact that I
don't even understand it to begin with that that really
bothers me, because I don't even understand what they're saying.
Why would new life. I don't even understand what they're
saying with birth or bringing a new person in the world,
stopping the cycle.

Speaker 2 (51:29):
And my other thing was they were like with New Life,
but she was pregnant, if she had gotten in that accident.

Speaker 3 (51:36):
The baby was there, right.

Speaker 2 (51:40):
I mean hadn't. I mean, I know, technically the baby
wasn't born yet, the baby was there. The baby was alive.
So how is that new life if the baby's already
in car?

Speaker 3 (51:52):
That's the thing is it frustrated me, even if it
had not been like a look over here sort of thing,
if the concept itself frustrated me.

Speaker 1 (52:02):
Yeah, I feel like I feel like we live in
a world now where, uh, when a baby is like yeah,
when a baby is, and when a baby is it
is like a whole another like rabbit trail. I would
love to see like a debate with pro life and
and uh pro choice, just kind of like debating on

(52:24):
like what win a baby is and not.

Speaker 2 (52:31):
But in this case, she was close to delivery. She wasn't,
so pro choice, not pro choice, she would have been
beyond all that. So that's that's the only reason why
I say that, is because she would have been close
to delivering.

Speaker 1 (52:47):
I so like I think that, like they try so
hard to explain how death works in these movies, like
in these early movies, and it's not necessarily until I think, honestly,
Bloodlines is kind of when they feel like they've kind
of fleshed this out. This isn't like a spoiler for it,

(53:08):
but there's a there's a moment in it when Tony
Todd is kind of essentially talking about how like, uh,
how you stop death and it's basically like, oh, well,
you you kill somebody, and then it like it stops,
like it's it stops death planned because like it's been disrupted.
And I feel like every movie in this franchise just

(53:30):
kind of keeps reaching for that idea.

Speaker 3 (53:32):
Yeah, and it's not.

Speaker 1 (53:35):
I don't know if I don't know, if the I
don't remember if the other movies ever kind of get
actually like line up with that idea, where if they
were just like we saw this in Smile and this
really works, so we'll bring it over here.

Speaker 3 (53:49):
But one of the other movies, I don't remember if
it's three or four or five. Yeah, I guess that's
every other movie that I haven't watched recently. But in
one of the other movies, they do end up like
trying to kill each other to escape Death's design.

Speaker 1 (54:06):
Think gets final Destination five.

Speaker 3 (54:08):
It might be, yeah, it might be. But so this
this baby thing, this baby it all comes back to
the baby thing for me, I guess, so, yeah, this
is first of this. This aspect of the movie frustrates
me to no end. I don't know why. So I
like I did. I did a deep dive and apparently

(54:29):
the first movie, in the original cut of the first
movie screen tested that they screen tested this. It tested poorly,
rightfully so, but so the Clear and Alex was his
name in the first movie. I believe Clear and Alex
are having a conversation on a on the beach where Alex,

(54:50):
I don't know if someone brings up pay maybe if
we have a baby, it will stop deaths design the
whole movie, the Clear gets pregnant, Alex sacrifices himself when
he's when she's in the car and he's holding the
power line or and whatnot. He dies in that scene.
She gives birth to a baby and the cycle stops.
Carter's there with with her, and her giving birth to

(55:13):
this baby basically saves her and Carter. And that's how
the first movie originally ended, and it tested poorly with audiences.
So I don't know why they decide to do it
again with Final Destination two.

Speaker 1 (55:25):
They's like, you know what, we have this like idea
we needed, we need a baby, like you know, just imagine,
I just imagine like the writer's room just kind of
sitting around there like all right, what what do we need?
What do we need for this big climax, and the
someone just goes like, baby ends death, deadness tracks baby.

Speaker 3 (55:45):
And it's a baby. It's a baby in the room.
His first words baby, baby ends death, stop death, starts
scribbling on the on a page over and over and over.

Speaker 2 (56:00):
Yeah. If they didn't have it with what you were
just describing, if they didn't have it where the baby
saved them but more of a Alex and Clair lived
and then they run into something like this and then
both of them died with the baby lives that. I mean,
I'd be okay with that, but just the fact that
they're using the baby or just a storyline is like.

Speaker 3 (56:20):
Yeah, yeah, and it all, it all, it gets addressed.
I feel like eventually, but we won't we won't get
into anything. I don't know, maybe maybe, but yeah.

Speaker 1 (56:33):
I I yeah, I uh mm. The like one of
the most tiresome tropes in horror for me is kind
of like the the child's savior complex, and it definitely
feels like this is, especially after we did Oman last year.
This definitely feels like it. Verry has that like similar

(56:55):
tone to where it's like with this child, we will
be saved, and it's like, ah, it's not that simple,
a little bit more complex than that.

Speaker 2 (57:07):
Yeah, I get that.

Speaker 3 (57:09):
I didn't see that movie. Is it pretty good otherwise
or I've heard good things about it?

Speaker 1 (57:14):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (57:14):
So we did the entire series, gotcha.

Speaker 1 (57:17):
Uh so what we found is that the first one's
really good, the new one's really good, and then the
sequels and the remakes just got progressively worse.

Speaker 2 (57:28):
As they do as they do, and the new one
did try to tie into the original.

Speaker 3 (57:34):
So yeah, I had a feeling.

Speaker 2 (57:36):
I mean, I was thinking more Immaculate than Omen.

Speaker 3 (57:41):
But yeah, I did see Immaculate. That movie was interesting, obviously.

Speaker 1 (57:46):
I love Immaculate. You watching that's Patreon patreon dot com
Forward slash Victims and Villains support mental wealth education and
I get to see us US videos and my awesome
Immaculate poster that has come cursy because of the good
people at the Alamo Draft House.

Speaker 2 (58:04):
Dude.

Speaker 3 (58:05):
Yeah, Emmaculately was cool.

Speaker 1 (58:08):
What was not cool was the sequel. Yeah, is there
any other things that you guys want to touch on
any of the things you think that would be good
for conversation.

Speaker 2 (58:23):
I think we hit almost.

Speaker 3 (58:25):
Yeah, I guess that barbed wire death. I do hear
people talk about that quite a bit as like being
one of their favorites from this movie. And I think
it was. It was silly, It was very silly. But
I think this director and this this director and writers
team also did Final Destination, the Final Destination, Final Destination four,

(58:47):
and that barbed wire scene specifically, I feel like that's
the entire Final Destination four. It's like just that goofy
like things flying at people and then like falling apart. Yeah,
that's funny.

Speaker 1 (59:02):
All right, Well, I think it's gonna do it for
us on this episode. Next episode, we're gonna be taking
a break from the Final Destination movies until July. We're
gonna be jumping into the last two remaining chapters for
the twenty eight later trilogy. I don't know, let's call it,
you know, days, months, years. But join us next week
when we talk about that once again. The movie is

(59:26):
called The Dreadful Place. It's gonna be stream screening on
August sixteenth, part of Horrific Film festival part of our
ten am block The Art of Dread, also playing with
the Litterbug, Tormented and Pain and offering Cole Thank you
for joining us.

Speaker 3 (59:41):
Thank you so much. I'm excited for the festival.

Speaker 1 (59:44):
Yes, we're excited to have you guys, and where can
people find you online?

Speaker 3 (59:49):
I'm basically most active on Instagram at col Daniel Hills.
You can follow along with my movie The Dreadful Place
at The Dreadful Place awesome.

Speaker 1 (59:56):
We'll write links for you guys in the show's below,
But Billy whre can people find you?

Speaker 2 (01:00:01):
I'll start us off. I'm on letterbox at v A
Boy ninety nine.

Speaker 1 (01:00:05):
I'm also in letterbox at Captain Nostalgia and you guys
can follow us everywhere you guys get your podcasts from,
as well as our parent company, Victims and Villains. We
are on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, YouTube and wherever you guys
get your podcasts from. So until next time, remember, the
longer you gaze into the abyss, the more that you
try to escape deaths, escape the luck of the Abyss.

(01:00:29):
Case is back at the Ar's a Good nights