Halloween (1978) | Episode #150 - Abyss Gazing: A Horror Podcast

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
Greetings, ghouls and gals, Welcome to a Biscasing a War
podcast where we celebrate all things spooky and mental health.

Speaker 2 (00:13):
I'm still your coast, Mark, they still.

Speaker 3 (00:16):
Got me along for the ride.

Speaker 1 (00:17):
Billy your cause, Josh, And we're celebrating one hundred and
fifty episodes again sheels monumental, and we are joined by
a good friend of the show. Sure, Andy Marvra. How
are you doing, sir?

Speaker 4 (00:34):
Oh so good?

Speaker 5 (00:35):
I heard I heard in the winds you guys are
talking about the movie, and I had to come in
because I can't let a conversation go about this movie
without joining.

Speaker 1 (00:43):
We are talking about eighteen seventy eight's Halloween. There you go, Mark, Yeah.

Speaker 2 (00:50):
I mean it's about time we've talked about the movie.
We did like a compare episode of this one with
Rob Zombies for the four atreon Atreon some years ago,
and it's about time we actually get this one on
the episode.

Speaker 1 (01:08):
This is one of This is one of those movies
that is feels so intimidating to podcasts about. I don't
know if you guys feel this way, because I feel
like this is one of the most influential horror movies
of all time. And so many other podcasts, both bigger
than us and smaller than us. I've covered this movie
and I've just kind of talked about every which way

(01:30):
that you can talk about something like this. I'm kind
of interested to see what this episode's going to entail,
but I'm also slightly nervous a little bit. I want
to do a justice.

Speaker 3 (01:40):
Oh.

Speaker 2 (01:40):
I mean, it's like the og Stalker Slasher.

Speaker 1 (01:46):
Yes, yeah, I feel like this movie like just to
kind of get a talk about its impact alone, I
feel like is just monumental. I mean, this movie took
basically did nineteen, predates the slasher's boom of the eighties

(02:06):
and kind of served as kind of like the groundwork
and the inspiration for Jason Voorhees and Friday the Thirteenth
and a bunch of other films that kind of came along.
It also ushered in The Final Girl, though. I mean,
you can also kind of make the argument for Texas
Chainsaw Massacre. I think this is kind of the one

(02:27):
that put that concept on the map and in the
conversation of genre fans.

Speaker 5 (02:34):
Yeah, And honestly, for me, like half the reason I
love this movie is for what you just said, But
the other half is that while all of that's true,
it all kind of happened accidentally. Like when you go
into the making of this movie, it's really just like
a bunch of young, like hungry filmmakers in their twenties,
just like the throwing stuff at the wall and seeing
what works. And they all were very talented and it

(02:55):
like turned into a masterpiece. But I do like the
John Carpet there's always very like chill and nonchalant about
them making this movie. He never really like he didn't
kind of buy in to be like, yes, I created
a whole genre. He's always like, I don't know, man,
we just made what we thought was scary. And it
just really to me like that to the Wonders are
just like independent gorilla filmmaking. It's you know what I mean.

(03:15):
So I love that kind of aspect of it, that
it's it's both awesome and unpretentious.

Speaker 2 (03:23):
It's it's always been. It's got one of my favorite
stories behind the character design, and that's the Michael Myers
mask where they just went into a gas station and
bottle William Shatner mask and spray painted and white.

Speaker 1 (03:39):
Yeah, I you know, kind of going off of what
Andy was just talking about so years ago, Gunner Hanson,
the first actor to play leather Face, wrote a book
called Chainsaw Confidential, and it's all about the making of
Texas Chainsaw Massacre and it's kind of has that same

(03:59):
like assroot feel. It kind of has that same vibe
going for it, where it's just kind of a bunch of,
you know, film school students that kind of just wanted
to make something and be ambitious. But I think the
difference between why Halloween has this bigger impact on the
genre than TCM is because it is a lot more grounded.

(04:24):
I feel like it hits a lot, it hits a
lot more tension, and it hits a lot more fears
where you know, when Racket is talking specifically to I've
just seen this movie where Brackets talking to Loomis and
he's describing Haddenfield. He's like, it's a family town. It's

(04:45):
this is suburbia. This is where you see children lining
up and you're talking about them like they're being lead
like lamps to the slaughter. And it's kind of takes
that seclusion, but it puts them in this more populated
place and this more idealic slice of kind of almost
Americana and just tears it to shreds. And this came

(05:06):
out of it at a time where the term serial
killer wasn't really develops the way that it is now.
And so I think that there's something really genius about
what Carpenter and Hill do here with Michael Myers in
the setting and how they utilize it.

Speaker 5 (05:21):
Yeah, and I like, also it's easy to forget like
the American suburbs weren't that old at this point, like
it had. They'd only been really around in the way
we know it for a couple of decades. So movies,
you know, like I said, like Twilight Zone, like bringing
kind of heart to the suburbs, movies weren't really doing
that yet. And so I think that's part of a
big reason too, because you know, those are that's Middle

(05:42):
America who was meant to feel safe. And then so
when they were like confronted with those horrors in a
movie in the seventies, I think it was a lot
like Jaws scaring people at the beach, like Michael Myers
was scaring you at your house, like places you didn't
think you were going to be scared.

Speaker 4 (05:54):
I think that's awesome.

Speaker 2 (05:56):
I mean Texas changed Sawmscar took place in the middle
of nowhere.

Speaker 1 (06:00):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (06:02):
At the same time, right here, within this same time period,
you had Alien, which took place in space with Ripley
being the final girl. So it was just kind of
odd for its time. I mean, was it Black Christmas?
It took place on a college campus. Yeah, yeah, So

(06:24):
you never really had anything like this, or at least
not that I can remember at the time.

Speaker 5 (06:28):
No, that's a great point because those ones you mentioned,
like someone ventured somewhere they shouldn't have been going, and
then they got into danger. This one, you're just at
home and danger comes to you. So it's like, by
nowadays that's not a novel idea, but for next seven
years you put your brain there and I think I.

Speaker 1 (06:47):
Think also just kind of building off of that, this
was this was the genre. Just I'd just say this
out there before we kind of get like really knee
deep into it. This is the one that introduced the
genre to me. This this movie holds a special place
in my heart. It's one of my top ten movies
of all time. I do a rewatch on the Halloween
franchise literally at least once a year. I adore Michael

(07:12):
Myers and Worri Strode. But I think one of the
things that are really fascinating is and you see it
as soon as Halloween two and in nineteen eighty one,
where they kind of try to give reason as to
why Michael is the way that he is and try
to build this like Laura in this mythology. But when
you look at this foundation that H'll and Carpenter create here,

(07:33):
it is absolutely terrifying because it's in an unsuspecting neighborhood
to Andy's point, suburb Suburbia around this time, you left
your door unlocked, like you know, you kind of went
out the middle of the night, and you could you
could do you could feel safe. That sort of stuff
kind of it gets disrupted. Have a serial killer like

(07:56):
Michael Myers and the fact that there's no rhyme or
reason this to why he does some of the things
that he does, and uh, kind of the way that
he kills and the way that throughout this movie also
I think is just worth mentioning. And I think that
is kind of also what makes him terrifying is that
fear of the unknown woven into this h slasher story.

Speaker 2 (08:20):
Well, I mean, your your neighborhoods like that in areas
like that weren't known for locking their doors. That was
it was, Yeah, it was. It was a time period
when everybody felt a whole lot safer. And now you
go out to get your mail and you lock your
door behind you. Well, it's it's just it was a

(08:43):
different time period in general in a movie, yeah, place
and in a whole different scene that everybody was used to.

Speaker 5 (08:51):
Yeah, I feel like the suburbs spelled safety for people,
Like they left the city to go have space, have safety,
have a community, and then for that to be disrupted
by like a plain white face, Yeah, that's great.

Speaker 6 (09:05):
But yeah, I also too love the fact that, you know,
when you watch like Making of or like you read
like history about this, you know at the time like
you brought a bandy and like even Mark like.

Speaker 1 (09:24):
The likeness of Shatner, and this was just kind of
you know, it's just kind of one of those things
that it fit what they had for budget. But this
film kind of blew up and it took on a
life of its own. It became iconic. But it is
that absence of lights, that absence of expression that is

(09:45):
really terrifying, and it's kind of just one of those
things that it's just really simple, and I think we
we I think a lot of subsequent intries into the
franchise kind of overcomplicate some of the more simple elements
that this movie timeless and also a landmark movie for
the genre excluding the Mask.

Speaker 7 (10:08):
And you brought up budget, wasn't this movie shot in
like a three hundred thousand dollars budget, only paying Jamie
Lee like eight thousand.

Speaker 1 (10:17):
Yes, this movie was made for like next to nothing.
I believe it was the highest grossing independent It depends
on who you read. There are some reports that I
say this is the highest grossing independent movie until Teenage
Minas Turls in eighteen ninety or Blair Witch Project in

(10:37):
ninety nine. This movie held on pretty much throughout the
entirety of the eighties.

Speaker 2 (10:43):
Either way.

Speaker 7 (10:43):
Yeah, something that got me that I saw the other day,
I think I sent it to Josh was the fact
that what they did was hinted Jamie Lee Curtis like
two hundred dollars, told her to go to like Sears
of Montgomery Wards and she got all her outfits for
the movie for two hundred dollars. The whole thing, it's
crazy compared to what people do now.

Speaker 2 (11:04):
For you know, a pair of shoes now is two
hundred plus, I know exactly, So you just.

Speaker 1 (11:15):
Go to Goodwill and you'll be fine.

Speaker 2 (11:18):
I mean at the time, they were kind of lucky
because it was before anybody really knew who Jamie Lee
Curtis was. She was just starting to become a scream
queen at that point.

Speaker 1 (11:27):
Well, this is this was her breakthrough role, her very
first run. But I mean, she is Hollywood royalty, she.

Speaker 4 (11:36):
Is the.

Speaker 2 (11:38):
I read somewhere that she actually is somehow royalty. I
don't like English royalty or something. I don't know who
her I don't remember who her dad is. But Tony Curtis, okay,
Janet Lee more than yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 5 (11:57):
I mean again, what I found too like interesting was
like she wasn't that excited to take on this role
because she was afraid of everyone just comparing her to
her mom, and so she was like, I don't really
want to do a horror movie, but she said no
one else was asking her to do movies, so she
was like, I was stupid to know it would be
the sane. And then you know, she kind of like

(12:18):
she's always Jimmie the Curtis is one of the legendary
scream queens of all times. But she'll be the first
to stay an interview. She's always had one foot in
of horror the other foot out because she's just like,
you know, she's always wanted to branch out. So it
was kind of like a reluctant acceptance of her mom's legacy,
which I thought.

Speaker 1 (12:31):
Was kind of cool, which I also think is kind
of crazy to think about, because I mean, she did
following this movie, did almost exclusively horror for like four
or five years following the og Halloween until she kind
of broke into broke that stereotype and then now even
I mean freakingar Friday aside, she's actually been working on

(12:57):
a lot. She's been working with Blumhouse on like a
few horror project, so like that's primarily the genre that
she stated now, and I believe she's also working on
either a comic or a graphic novel that is also
going to be poor.

Speaker 2 (13:11):
It's just it's it's kind of funny because she went
on in the early eighties to do was It Trading
Places with Eddie Murphy and Dan Android, which is a
fantastic movie in and of itself.

Speaker 1 (13:28):
But that also goes to my point because it's like
eighty four, eight eighty three, eighty four when y yeah.

Speaker 2 (13:34):
Well that's That's what I was going on, was that
it was some years later she did that and then
kind of branched out from there, But before that it
was like prom Queen and Halloween and stuff like that.

Speaker 3 (13:46):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (13:46):
Yeah, you also got to think about like type testing,
Like it's not like you just get to pick any
role you want. So like, I think, just like people
like you were great in this, let's keep doing that.
And so she would build that to build a career.
And then yeah, I think trading places. That's probably a
good example of like the third because then a decade
after that she's, you know, with alongside on a Towtzenegger
ye true lies, you know, and like just like the

(14:08):
biggest blackbuster of the summer. How about I know, Josh,
you said Halloween kind of like it was your introduction
to horror mark or Billy do you guys have it?
Like is this movie special for any specific reason other
than it's like the influence or like to you did
you see it young?

Speaker 4 (14:25):
Or anything like that.

Speaker 2 (14:27):
So Halloween was one of my one of my favorite
franchises for a long time. And I mentioned it before.
It is like, I think the first Halloween I saw
was I think four, and I had woke up in
the middle of the night at like three o'clock in
the morning and watched it while everybody was asleep, and

(14:47):
then went to like elementary school the next day because
it was I was in like fifth grade.

Speaker 8 (14:54):
So it was it was yeah, yeah, it was mar
It was like the first It may have been one
of the first slashers I ever watched.

Speaker 2 (15:05):
Was that Halloween for and but my intro to my
introed horror in general was Poltergeist. It was the original Poltergeist,
which I still love.

Speaker 1 (15:20):
It's just it's okay, it's fine.

Speaker 7 (15:23):
I mean my introduction was like Freddy and Chucky, but
this is still a classic to me.

Speaker 4 (15:30):
I still love this movie. The way they shot it,
the way they.

Speaker 7 (15:34):
Don't have don't have to say, well, he's right here,
and they shoot away from it and everything else.

Speaker 4 (15:39):
That's what I liked about this movie. You didn't have
to throw it in your face to.

Speaker 2 (15:43):
Know what was going on. Yes, I was curious. Did
they ever ask William Shatter how he felt about it?

Speaker 5 (15:49):
I've seen an interview where he like flippingly like talks
about her. He's just like, yeah, some one of those
killer guys is my face right, and like you like
asked someone off camera, so he like knows about it,
but I don't think he's actually watched it the movie,
so I think he cares that it's Michael Myers. No,
but Billy, just to really jump on your thing about
the shooting, I do want to mention, I think one
of the key reasons this movie's gold also is Dean

(16:11):
Kundy is a cinematographer, and that dude just is at
the time, he was still in the young in his career, but.

Speaker 4 (16:18):
Would go on in Jurassic Park exactly.

Speaker 5 (16:21):
I think some Collen brother stuff I don't remember exactly,
but like literally a legend. So I think just having
that guy to frame those shots is another key to
why it just worked so well well.

Speaker 1 (16:33):
I think also too, one of the things that really
struck me on this watch is just the way that
like there's like this like fluidity to the camera where
especially I think a great example what I'm talking about
is the scene is how the scene is shot when
Michael first stumbles upon Tommy to where he's got to

(16:56):
like going the opposite way. Do you just kind of
see the way the camera moves and you just kind
of hear his breathing over top of it, Like that
to me is just kind of always been really creepy,
but also at the same time, like it's just it's
one of those shots that is so simple, but the
way that it's set up and executed, and again just

(17:17):
talking about how this movie keeps itself grounded, really I
feel like does elevate and kind of get underneath your skin,
And the.

Speaker 7 (17:29):
Fact of how they use the theme kind of like, uh,
this is gonna be a weird comparison, but when you
hear that theme, you know he's coming, just like dar
coming out of a door. You hear Darth Vader's team,
you know he's coming. So I love the fact that
they were able to do it with the music also, yeah,
and it just hits right there, and you know.

Speaker 1 (17:48):
This movie's also like I feel like it's kind of like,
you know, going off of the idea of a Mendela effect.
I think when people talk about the Texas Chanceel massacre,
they think that it's going to be this like really bloody,
really graphic movie there's not a lot of bloodshed in
that movie, and I feel like we are so accustomed
to seeing that Michael Myers mask with this character, but

(18:12):
so much of this movie set up is you don't
actually see anything but like above his shoulders until almost
like the fifty to fifty five minute mark, and.

Speaker 2 (18:23):
You were talking about being bloody.

Speaker 7 (18:25):
Wasn't there only like five victims actually in this movie?

Speaker 1 (18:29):
Yes, very very very bloodless.

Speaker 2 (18:32):
Yeah, yeah, it's it kind of followed that same kind
of slasher style they did with Texas Chainsaw Massinger, with
the mind I'll do more than actual videokay, and at
some point.

Speaker 1 (18:51):
Which is why I think it also kind of allows you.
But you know, also watching this in twenty twenty five
having that mindset of uh, just kind of being in
this like man like this grown man just watching this
child or this teenager, or like you know, just kind
of stalking around or oh, he just popped out to

(19:13):
watch two kids have sex, like you know. It is
one of those things that it's like, it's very creepy
the way that he just kind of lingers there. And
I feel like they're one of the things that a
lot of the sequels get wrong is that he just
kind of has this like intimidation factor about him, or
this like brute force about him. But he's kind of

(19:34):
like clever and smarter than I think a lot of
the sequels kind of give him credit for that this
film establishes.

Speaker 2 (19:42):
I mean, except when dealing with Buster Rhymes and Resurrection.

Speaker 4 (19:49):
Yeah, yeah, I mean they're impressive.

Speaker 1 (19:55):
Also, it took us eight movies. That movie was the
first Halloween movie to actually say trick or treat. So
got to give it to Buster on that one.

Speaker 5 (20:06):
Yep, we gotta give it to him. No, but I
totally agree with everything here, just saying, Josh, I just
want to add to that lingering creepiness. The addition of
the breathing, like hearing Michael breathe through his mask just
adds creepiness. And it's like, I know, I keep harping
on this, but like how I just love how this
movie is made. It's like, with no money, you have

(20:27):
to use every for lack of a better word, trick
available to you by making a movie. So like, just
the sound design was perfect, the way they shot it
was perfect, the use of lighting was perfect. You know,
this is kind of common ground. But John Carpenter's talked
about that famous scene when Laurie's standing and uh just
discovered her dead friends and she's freaked out in the
closet and Michael's face slowly appears in the light.

Speaker 4 (20:51):
You know.

Speaker 5 (20:51):
He decided to attach a dimmer to a light because
he wanted that feeling of when you first start in
a dark room and it's pitch black, but as you're
in it as a human in your eyes, it will
start developed the dark and he'll start to see. So
he was kind of like mimicking that Michael's face appearing
in the light, and just like it's it's all those
little flairs. That's the reason why as much as I

(21:11):
want the franchise, I don't even let I don't think
the other one's come close to touching this one for me.
But it's just like it's like a literal filmmaker grabag
of all the greatest tricks he could pull, and.

Speaker 4 (21:22):
I love it. Well.

Speaker 2 (21:24):
I did find something interesting. I don't know if it
was intentional on Carpenter's part or not. Did you notice
the movie the kids were watching.

Speaker 1 (21:34):
The Thing from Another World?

Speaker 4 (21:38):
Yes.

Speaker 2 (21:39):
A couple of years later, he turned around and put
out the remake.

Speaker 5 (21:42):
For Yeah, I've heard him talk there's no way he
knew he was going to make that, but it is
one of his favorite movies, so I think it was
just kind of like, you know, you put it out
in the world and then he probably volled for it.

Speaker 2 (21:54):
It is still to this day one of the greatest
remakes ever done.

Speaker 1 (22:00):
How do you guys kind of feel about the certain
ideas that kind of become like part of the DNA
of the franchise kind of moving forward. We've talked a
lot about the filmmaking style, but I'm kind of curious
how you guys kind of feel about Loomis, especially throughout
the first six movies, where Loomis is essentially kind of

(22:20):
he's very You kind of see it here in the
opening introduction scene with him and the nurse, but he
very much doesn't talk about Michael Myers as a person
but rather a entity. He's very subtle in the way
that he kind of does it, Whereas the more further
into the franchise we get, the more erratic he gets.

(22:43):
So I'm kind of curious how you guys kind of
feel about the foundation of Loomis here.

Speaker 4 (22:48):
Re laugh though, because he's mostly subtle, but he does
at one.

Speaker 5 (22:52):
Point after he drives away, so he's not subtle. That's
your patient, you know, it's very funny.

Speaker 1 (23:04):
I think a lot.

Speaker 2 (23:08):
Oh no, you're fine, Okay. I take a lot of
the thing with Loomis as he kind of got, like
you said, more radic in the later in the later movies,
was you had different writers involved with it, so it's
more of the writing of the character than the actual
actor himself.

Speaker 5 (23:31):
Yeah, and I think he makes a very fun character.
But Josh had a great point where if you were
to look at him as a real therapist, he might
be one of the worst of all times, like just
to be like the kid wasn't talking, so he's pure evil.
It's just like with more modern medicine. In the wait
you understand a little while.

Speaker 1 (23:53):
But I don't know. That's one of the things that
that I will give Rob Zombie. You know, Mark said
that we did do a head ahead battle a few
years ago. That is one thing I will give kind
of is I kind of after the initial remake aspects
when he does go to Smiths Grove, you kind of
do get a first hand of like this trauma was

(24:15):
so impactful on him. That he basically just kind of
shut down until he just didn't see, like speak anymore.
You know, there's a quote in that movie that says, like,
you know, he's like a comotoast kitten. Half the time.
You can't tell if he's even breathing. And I feel
like that's kind of one of those things that like

(24:38):
you kind of do get to see, but especially with Michael,
and I think, yeah.

Speaker 5 (24:48):
No, you have a total point there. And I think
I also think it's like the filmmakers and tech where
I know, from John Carper's point of view, just from
the interviews I've heard him talk about from his perspective,
he doesn't Michael in this movie as human. It's why
he writes him as the shape. He doesn't say Michael's
lighting around the corner. So to him, he wanted to

(25:08):
explore the idea of pure evil inside a human's body.
And then, you know, so when the remake came, it
is an interesting move to like, let's actually look into
him as a human, Let's see some of the therapy.
It's the reason why we don't see Loomis ever do
therapy once since six movies. He just basically has a
gun and runs around trying to fight evil. It's like,
it's really just like my filmmakers. I don't think the

(25:29):
original series was about like psycho Analyz. Think it was
more about like what a pure evil showed up on
your doorstet.

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Speaker 3 (25:48):
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(26:34):
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Speaker 1 (27:19):
I want to slightly push back against that. I think
I agree with you for like ninety five percent of it.
But there is that moment where after Michael has escaped
in the beginning of the movie, where you have that
scene with like, I guess it's like one of the
higher ups at Smiths Grove kind of talking with Loomis

(27:41):
and he basically is like, you know, I warned everyone
here about it, and you guys just kind of laughed
at me, Whereas like, I think there's something to be
said about the relationship that we're not seeing here I mean,
there's fifteen years of therapy. So I do kind of
think that there is this reality of understanding that Loomis

(28:04):
has over people. I think it's part of the reason
that he's been a backbone with the franchise for so long.
Probably is a terrible therapist. But also keeping in mind
of when this came out, I mean, stuff like this
didn't happen, especially at the young especially in the early
sixties when the prologue takes place, that cold opening, that's

(28:25):
where of stuff like just didn't. I haven't for sure.

Speaker 2 (28:30):
I never realized till this watching that they said he
was six when the murders took place, and it was
like fifteen years later twenty one. Yeah, I never realized
it was twenty one. I think, so, Josh, I like
that all these years. I enjoyed your pushing back.

Speaker 1 (28:53):
Josh.

Speaker 5 (28:54):
The only thing I'll say is it wasn't fifteen years
of therapy, because I believe he says along the lines
of I spent six years trying to reach him, and
you're just trying to keep him locked up. I might
have the numbers wrong exactly, but well after about sixty years,
so I don't think he had fifteen years of studying
like us as much as he was probably.

Speaker 1 (29:13):
Well, it's it's interesting to look at Loomis, the relationship
between Loomis and Michael from a mental health perspective, where
it is like, I feel like there is you know,
it's from from Loomis's perspective. I feel like there's only
literally so much that you can do. Like for me,
if I have a friend that's going through depression, I

(29:34):
can listen to them, I can be there for them,
and I can even give them advice and resources. But
at the end of the day, they have to be
the ones to kind of make that change. They have
to be the ones that are going through that break
breakthrough process. So in some ways it does feel very
defeating to kind of go through and experience something like that,
you know, to watch someone that you really care about,

(29:56):
really love, you know, not saying that that's the relationship
for Loomis and Myers, but uh, you know, just kind
of using it as an example to where it does
feel like you kind of just give up or vice
versa as Michael Myers. You know that patient seeking therapy,
Uh sometimes there sometimes you just have shitty therapists and

(30:21):
you think that all, if it's your first therapy, you
probably have this idea that maybe all therapists are going
to be the shitty that they're just going to be
concerned about giving you medication to kind of put the
band aid over the problem and not necessarily address the
root of the issue. And sometimes I always just to
encourage people to if you don't if it doesn't work

(30:44):
with one therapist, keep trying it until it does. Like,
you also have to set the expectations yourself and saying,
what do I truly want out of therapy? What am
I looking to overcome? And what what special pations? What
I want from a therapist? You know, do I want
them to be, you know, someone that can subscribe prescribe medication.

(31:07):
Do I want them to be a talking therapist? Do
I want them to be male? Do I want them
to be female? Do I want them to have, you know,
a specialty in something that I'm struggling with, et cetera.

Speaker 2 (31:20):
Yeah, with all that in mind, at the same time,
the person's going to want to make change because you've
seen I've seen people that have been forced one way
or another to go to therapists or doctors for medication.
And if they don't want to make the change, then

(31:40):
the medicine's not going to do but so much be.
Therapy is not going to have but so much effect.
And some people even will go as far as to
deny that they have an issue. I've seen cases of
people that have been court ordered to go to this
stuff and it's almost useless for him because they don't

(32:05):
think they have a problem.

Speaker 7 (32:07):
Yeah, and to Mark's point, like with Myers on this,
he was probably forced automatically being put in the hospital,
so it's not like he's sought it out.

Speaker 3 (32:19):
So I don't see how that was going.

Speaker 7 (32:21):
To be helpful for him anyway. If I mean, they
said he didn't talk or anything else, so that means
that yeah, there wasn't trying or wasn't ready for it.

Speaker 1 (32:32):
I mean, to Mark's point, you know, when you go
to a twelve step programs, whether that's you know an
A A A, you know, any type of any type
of anonymous group, the first step that they always tell
you in the programs is you have to admit that
you have a problem. You have to be the ones
who admit to yourself that hey, something is not right here.

(32:54):
Either I have an addiction, I have a problem. I
have depression. You know, I don't want to hear anymore.
The language is like that, you know, understanding that there
needs to be a reason to reach out first, And
that's a tough real that's a tough thing to come
through because there's a part of you that is essentially

(33:15):
having to admit that you're flawed and that you need
to present yourself as vulnerable, and that in and of
itself is another thing to kind of also overcome.

Speaker 2 (33:30):
I think that's one of the reasons why it's so
many it's so easy for so many people to fall
into kind of that that victimhood mindset instead of the
self analysis, because it's harder to look at yourself and
point out what's wrong than it is to somebody wronged

(33:52):
me kind of thing.

Speaker 7 (33:55):
I mean, and we brought this up on other podcasts.
Some of it could be a fear of look weak
or anything like that. Also, I mean, you could go
and say I want to go to therapy and all,
but some people won't admit they have it because they're afraid.
They're afraid that that makes them look weak.

Speaker 1 (34:11):
Well, Marcus side, as we joke around at the end
of every episode, the majority of people today's age have
social media, they're active on social media, and uh not
for remark though it's fine, you know, but even even
social media, what did I do? Social media? We project

(34:33):
this image of what we want the world to see.
We want them to see, you know, oh, hey look
I'm at this cool concert, I'm at this festival, or
you know, uh, romans having an okay day and he
had a coke zero again you know, uh, stuff like that,
And you know, we kind of portrayed this narrative that

(34:54):
what we want to see. And so I think that's
also like it's also really importan and to kind of
showcase on there and say, hey, like I don't know
who needs to I don't know who's going to see this.
I don't know who's going to read this. I just
need someone to sit with me and give me a
call or you know, and I think three of us,

(35:15):
you know, we've done that a lot in our group
over the last year, you know, kind of going through
health scare, smunk, family, uh, personal shit shit, you know,
and it's just been kind of one of those things
that it's like, even if you're not ready to take
those steps into therapy or that addiction group to kind

(35:37):
of create a safe place where you feel respected and
you feel like you can let your guard down and
pursue that and pursue with the community that you built.

Speaker 2 (35:55):
Well, I think as much as we use for people
I can't say week because I don't use it that much,
but as much as people use social media, I think,
and it's actually been proven by some studies that a
lot of issues have been caused by it because of
the instant dopamine rushes that people get from their their

(36:20):
likes and all that stuff. It's a sight of a
double edged sword. Sure, you're getting out there, I'm doing
these projects and things like that, but at the same
time it's almost as the same addictive properties as a
lot of drugs too. And you see some of these

(36:40):
kids they lose their phones and access to it, they
almost shut down because they don't just don't know what
to do without it.

Speaker 7 (36:52):
Well, I know you're not in Virginia any more, Mark,
but I know that they just passed here that I
forget when it's supposed to start.

Speaker 4 (37:00):
But it's going to be.

Speaker 7 (37:00):
An hour a day for teenagers, and it's supposed to
shut down where they can't be on the apps.

Speaker 2 (37:06):
And how are they going to enforce that though.

Speaker 4 (37:09):
I don't know yet.

Speaker 2 (37:10):
I mean, I'm running the same thing.

Speaker 7 (37:13):
I mean, my kids are going to be old enough
where it's not going to really affect them, but they're
the younger kids.

Speaker 3 (37:20):
I don't know.

Speaker 7 (37:21):
I mean, if they're not putting the right age on
some of these apps, which I know kids don't because
my kids didn't do it at the time when I
caught them, there's no way that they're going to be
able to regulate that.

Speaker 3 (37:32):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (37:33):
Well, I mean they mean well, they mean well, much
like you know Doc loom Is here, he means well
he just shuts down after six years, Yeah, trying to help,
He's trying. Yeah, I'm kind of curious, like kind of
switching gears from you know, back to this franchise. There

(37:55):
are like a couple of these like little notes that
exist here that get expanded upon in later infuries, but
they feel like such throwaway lines, like when Loomis finds
for an example, like when Loomis finds that Michael has
kind of stripped off all of his hospital gowns and

(38:18):
he finds the little pack of matches that says the
rabbit in Red Lounge, like that seems like such a
throwaway moment, and that has been expanded upon in the
Rob Zombie movies. I believe it's also expanded upon in
one of the Leader sequels. Like, I'm just kind of
curious how you guys feel about these quieter moments and

(38:44):
how they kind of get used or flipped later in
the franchise.

Speaker 5 (38:50):
I mean, I'm not gonna say don't like it, because
I do. I do love franchises, and I do like
a lot of sequels. But it's kind of just an
example of like, this was never meant to be fourteen
films long, like it was. It was just simple movie
that was just a stand on its own. And then
so when you try to extract from that, you do
just have to either make up stories like them being
siblings or just being like what about that? You know,
like he loves trucker overalls, you gotta always make sure

(39:11):
he gets trucker overalls, no matter what what hospital he
breaks out of. And I'm going witch, Yeah, if Michael
really is a mindless like entity is here to kill,
I don't think you'd worry about getting the same outfit
every single time. I think he would just wear whatever
he funds so it's just like but it's it's all
part of the fun. It's very it's like sequelsm if
that's a word I just made up.

Speaker 2 (39:32):
Wow. I mean, in all fairness, though, it's not like
fourteen movies. It's a choose your own adventure and it
could be anywhere from like three or four movies to
like five or six, depending on which version you like.

Speaker 4 (39:49):
That's true.

Speaker 5 (39:50):
I'm just thinking of how when they when they ask
John Carpenter the Ride a sequel, he very famously said,
I bought twelve beers and went into a cabin and
wrote it in two days. And so he was just like,
it wasn't it wasn't this like treasure trove of story
he had to unlock. He was just like, all right,
I don't know, something else happens. And so it's when
when things get brought back. I love the sequels, but
it's it's not a planned It's not Star Trek, you know,

(40:13):
it's not it's not like a Lung's planned storyline.

Speaker 2 (40:19):
I mean, it's one of those things with Halloween that
like I would have liked to have seen them explore
the Cult of the Thorn stuff, but it just never happened. Yeah,
and there's other storylines that they will never follow, will
never get a quite update on. But then you get

(40:41):
but what was it Meyer's mom was like a stripper
at the club that you were talking about earlier, Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (40:49):
Rather than read yeah, I I we were talking about
the future of this franchise past you know what they
do after the David Gordgreen trilogy, And I didn't. It
didn't dawn to me, like we obviously know that a
television series in the works. But uh, if you want
to go like super obscure like and don't want to
do like season the Witch, you want to go back

(41:10):
to give me a Rabbit and Red CW show, It'll
be total shit. I'm so curious to see like the
Showgirls of the Halloween World.

Speaker 4 (41:28):
And go Grizzlies is there for some reason.

Speaker 1 (41:34):
It's like, oh, yeah, you bring Ken for you back
and he's just he just has that like he's just
the trucker that comes in and does stuff.

Speaker 2 (41:41):
And I mean, or do a series of any survivors
in therapy.

Speaker 1 (41:51):
So as Andy knows, that almost happened. Actually, there was
a one of the sequels that got pitched. I believe
it's after h two O though, would actually have brought
Jamie Lloyd and a bunch of the other survivors back.
So it's actually pitched at one point along with a

(42:14):
plethora of crazy ass ideas that also includes a multiverse
Supermax movie that I would have loved to see, and
I definitely feel like we were robbed.

Speaker 5 (42:27):
If yeah, if we're sharing our favorite crazy almost sequels,
do you remember the Halloween four the first pitch that
was for that one. Halloween four originally was going to
open with Michael Myers waking up somewhere I don't even
I don't even remember ripping off his mask, killing a biker,
taking his leather jacket and throwing on a cool leather jacket,

(42:48):
and then stealing a car, driving to a movie theater
where people would be waiting in line to wash Halloween four,
and then he would run over all the patrons waiting
to watch Halloween four, and then the movie would start,
and so it was gonna be and then that got
thrown away immediately. But that's in Taking Shape too or
whatever that book that we're so if we want to

(43:10):
talk about where this crede Tise almost went. I remember
reading that one and I was like who got hope
they got fired? I don't know who pitched that, honestly.

Speaker 1 (43:19):
The one that I feel like we got robbed of
was uh and I'm probably definitely the minority here for
those that have red. Taking Shape two is the hell
Razor crossover. I love hell Raiser, I love Halloween. I
would have loved I loved the pitch that they made
for that movie.

Speaker 4 (43:41):
Yeah, I do.

Speaker 5 (43:42):
And I wouldn't say I'd be lying if I said
I don't want to see it, but like truly picturing
Michael Meyers like fighting Pinhead. I don't know it just
like it's it's a little silly.

Speaker 4 (43:52):
To me, but.

Speaker 1 (43:54):
Yes, but like the fact that like Clive Barker would
have come back to write it and Carpenter would have
come back to direct it. Like that's kind of what
had in me. I was like, Oh, and and we're
bringing Doug Doug Doug Bradley back on this. Okay, all right,
let's go. Sorry. I will highly recommend to not just

(44:25):
you guys, but if you are fans of the Halloween
series the way that Andy and I are, to check
out Taking Shape both one and two. I've read the
first one, but the second one is about all of
the unmade sequels and some of them are just batshit nuts.

Speaker 4 (44:43):
Yes they're they're both awesome reads.

Speaker 5 (44:47):
I love. I mean, it's this one of my favorite movies.
I've just watched so much supplementary material over the years,
but real quick, one I want to shout out that
I think has never talked about and it's one of
the most fascinating and.

Speaker 4 (45:00):
Into.

Speaker 5 (45:00):
This movie came out in twenty eighteen when first David
Gordon Green reboot was coming out, and it's called Halloween Unmasked,
and it's a podcast that a film critic Amy Nicholson
does and she interviews everyone from John Carpenter to Loris Stroup,
Jamie Lee Curtis, the Dean Conda. She interviews everyone and

(45:23):
they really go into just the whole John Carpenter's past,
you know, because it's like technically like eight hours because
it's an eight episode podcast. But I've learned more from
those eight episodes about the making of this movie than
I haven't any Every of the documentary seems to have
the same trivia over and over and over again, and
this was truly like a different look into it. So
if you want to be a super big Nerd download

(45:44):
that podcast.

Speaker 4 (45:45):
It's awesome. Halloween Unmasked.

Speaker 3 (45:48):
Is it bad?

Speaker 1 (45:48):
I've listened to that podcast like three times.

Speaker 5 (45:51):
No, I was real listening to I was bowing my
law and prepping for this podcast, and I was re
listening to some of it.

Speaker 4 (45:59):
It's so good because it was interesting.

Speaker 5 (46:01):
I never heard John carvern to talk about growing up
in Bowling Green, Kentucky, like during the Civil rights era
and just talking about like seeing the violence and the
racism firsthand, like that's where that idea of human evil
came from. Like he was like, that's why I made
Halloween later, Like I was tapping back, Like he literally
told stories of like his friend's mom driving them home
from school, seeing a black man on the road, intentionally

(46:23):
hitting him with his car, killing him, calling the police
and saying, hey, I just killed the black man. Come
pick him up and then go, and then dropping him
off at home after school, and so he was like
like I just like He's like it was like an
evil that couldn't be comprehended and it messed with his mind.
And then he left, went to California, went to film school,
and like, like, so I've never heard that talked about
as the Origin of Michael Myers and the Pure Evil

(46:44):
and like so anyway, it's just that podcast I think
is gold and better than most documentaries are gonna find
on Halloween.

Speaker 1 (46:54):
I think kind of dad dipping back into one of
the quotes from Rob Zombie's remake is when it's that
scene where Louis is at his first book book talk
and he's talking about, you know, these are the eyes
of you know, pure evil, these are the devil's eyes.
I love that juxposition because you know, I'd forgotten about

(47:16):
that trivia fact, and I think it's I think it's
absolutely correct, you know, and kind of when you experience
it here and it's kind of why you kind of
seems to feel like it's kind of fleshed out, not
necessarily in the best way. And subsequent sequels. I love
the sequels, except for part five. We don't talk about

(47:39):
Part five.

Speaker 2 (47:43):
I still like the fact that it wasn't.

Speaker 4 (47:50):
Six.

Speaker 1 (47:52):
That's the yeah, the producer's cut.

Speaker 2 (47:57):
No, the one actor that was man that I'm having
a brain fark and can't remember his name.

Speaker 1 (48:03):
No, yeah, No, that's uh, that's Paul Rudd. That's that's
the first first film he did. He was Paul Anthony Rudd.

Speaker 2 (48:09):
Yeah, that's still yeah, I still get a kick out
of that. I saw that one of the theaters back
in the day.

Speaker 5 (48:16):
Just to be a super nerd first movie film list
was released first, just out on the shelf.

Speaker 1 (48:27):
You know, given the troubled history with this this film,
like it's like this series kind of as they kind
of go on because I think, like you know, to
Andy's point, this was never intended to be a franchise,
and I think that's kind of what makes this film
so brilliant is that it is an example of tension
that you can weave over the course of literally just
a few hours. But you can kind of also expand

(48:50):
this elements and kind of make it silly putty and
choose your own adventure. Like Mark said, like you know,
there are really violence and really graphic ones with the
the Rob Zombie remakes. There are kung Fu and early
aughts ones with Halloween Resurrection, and you know, prep school ones.
There's an occult subplot like this film. The series just

(49:14):
has like really interesting ideas. They're not always the best
splashed out, Mark, I too also would love to see
the Cult of Thorn kind of flashed out. I just
rewatched part six last night, so it's very fresh in
my mind, but I would love to see that because
it just kind of feels like a missed opportunity. And also,

(49:35):
while we're on the subject of the original, when this
was turned into a book, originally the original film it
had a different alternate opening that kind of actually explored
and said that the reason why Michael Myers was the
shape is technically because he was evil personified. It kind

(50:00):
of goes back into like I think it's like the
sixteen hundreds. It's been probably like four to five years
since I read it, but you kind of get to
explore like earlier bloodlines kind of going through this like
evil incarnate idea and then it eventually getting passed down
to Michael Myers to be the events of the movie.
How would you guys like to help us get mental

(50:20):
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Speaker 9 (50:31):
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Speaker 1 (50:44):
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(51:09):
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Speaker 4 (51:21):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (51:21):
I remember reading about that in Taking Shape, but I
never actually read the novel, like the novelization, but i've
i them describing that. It's an interesting take. I'm curious,
like what I've never heard what like the filmmakers think
of that, because it's obviously not connected to any original
but it makes sense if you have to write a book,
you can't just ride like the hides really creepy, Like

(51:42):
you know, this will be so visual that if you're
putting it into words, you have to you have to
invent more story. You can't just be like you followed
them until nighttime, like it it's not going to be
fun to read.

Speaker 4 (51:52):
So yeah, I would.

Speaker 5 (51:55):
I would read it I get my hands on, and
I think it's out of print, you kind of I
would have to fund the use.

Speaker 1 (52:00):
It is out of print. It's super hard to find
the only reason that I even know the contents of
it is because someone uploaded a version of the audio
book from like the early eighties, and that's how I
That's how I went through it. So it's on YouTube.
Check it out.

Speaker 2 (52:23):
YouTube.

Speaker 4 (52:26):
That's all. Give it up for YouTube. Great platform.

Speaker 2 (52:29):
Yeah, the Vault of Lost Shows and Audio.

Speaker 1 (52:40):
Yeah, you can either find it there or Internet archive
is another great resource. I love exploring a bunch of
random stuff that's on there.

Speaker 3 (52:53):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (52:54):
Yeah, So is there anything else that you guys want
to talk about with this movie. I've got a couple
other things that I'm kind of curious to, but I'm
kind of also curious to hear what other things you
guys want to address or talk about what you got.

(53:15):
I'm kind of curious. And one of the things that
I think kind of gets lost in subsequent sequels is
that there's a little bit of sense of humor that
Michael has and I feel like you don't really get
to see it again until twenty eighteen with Bobb. It
especially where he comes back in and is dressed up
like the ghosts and it's got Bob's glasses, Like it's

(53:36):
kind of like a little bit of like a comical moment,
and you don't really ever kind of see that again
until the fish tank kill in David Gordon Green's First Halloween,
at least to that extent. Like, I I don't know
that I feel it's mostly just pretty straightforward brutality after

(53:56):
this one.

Speaker 2 (54:00):
Oh, there's also no explanation as to why he went
that route either, who knows. It was just kind of
a weird scene to me.

Speaker 5 (54:11):
Yeah, none of this is in the film. It's all
just like readings of the film. But like the one
I've heard is that like because he got locked up
at six, that he does still have in some ways
a childlike mentality, so like doing Halloween tricks is still
kind of in his brain because he's never really developed
past being a child. Again, not in the film at all,
but as one reading of it of like why he
plays tricks and maybe it also just the other filmmakers

(54:33):
in the future just didn't care to continue that.

Speaker 1 (54:38):
Well, it seemed like you know eventually because like we
and Andy we talked about this when we covered it
on your podcast, but when you introduce shortly after this,
we get the aforementioned Friday the thirteenth, and Friday the
thirteenth kind of brought this level of brutality that the
first film didn't have that audiences really want. So that's

(55:00):
why you have stuff like the hot tub incident or
the hanging nurse in the second film, and they kind
of just get a little bit more brutal. With every
single industry that you get, they get kind of a
lot more creative and it over time. That's kind of

(55:21):
what the slasher movie kind of grew into as a genre,
whereas here there's actually like substance. There's a lot of
things we've talked about from you know, the way that
things are shot or the sound design, the score, there's
a lot of technical elements that makes this movie the iconic.
It's really simple, but it up until like Scream, there's

(55:41):
kind of like this like blow point where the slasher
genre really didn't have like it really didn't feel like
it was handled with care when it was in terms
of its narrative. But the kills and the practical effects.
Definitely felt like they had that care.

Speaker 2 (55:58):
Oh, Friday is thirteen had almost become like a joke
of itself, and later eisode and later installments it was
just about how could we kill kids while they're having
sex in a camp? Except for the Manhattan one that

(56:19):
was him rampaging in Manhattan, which funny who was the
actor that played Jason in that one? And yeah, okay,
yeah it was him, he said. The scene where he's
walking down the sidewalk and kicks the kicks the boom
box was originally supposed to be a dog and He's like,

(56:41):
not even not even Jason was that evil to kick
a dog. So he refused to do that, so it
got turned into that. But anyways, yeah, the Friday the
thirteenths kind of became a joke of themselves and later
installments Night maryln elm Street knew what it was and
leaned into the kind of the comedy side of Slasher

(57:07):
with Freddy and Michael. Myers just always seemed to be
different than all of them in the way he was handled.
He wasn't. They never made him out to be like
a revenant or whatever Jason was. He was never made
out to be a dream demon or anything of that nature.

(57:29):
He was always just kind of made out to be
some person, which is kind of what made him different.

Speaker 1 (57:38):
They tried to with four through six with that Thorn trilogy.
They really tried, but it didn't stick. No, none of
them stocked unfortunately.

Speaker 5 (57:49):
Yeah, I agree with it, you mean, like in terms
of always keeping him a man, But Josh, you did
have a point where they did have to up the gore.
It almost seemed like with the Halloween sequels they had
to then stuck competing with the front of the Thirteenth
because by the time I get the six, like a
man's head explodes, Like it's like it's gets as over
the top as it could possibly get. So like I
think I said that when we did it on my
podcast where it was like Friday the Thirteenth came out

(58:11):
and was a blatant copy of Halloween, but then got
so popular that Halloween was forced to copy them. And
it to me, that's always that's around what I considered
like five and six, Like it's just they still do
try to have a lot of story, but they like
gott to have more kills and like that was never
the original movie. And I love kills. So I'm not
trying to like sit on a high horse about it.
It's both are great. So but when I watched six,

(58:34):
my favorite parts are the man's head exploding, not what
happens on the story. I don't really care about Caro
or a lot of what's going on.

Speaker 1 (58:44):
I always like, you know, I've rewatched The Last Day,
as I said, like, and I always want to see
the alternative universe where like Thorn is continued and like
Michael now being the Man in Black. If you've seen
the producer cut, you understand. But yeah, it makes me sad.

Speaker 5 (59:07):
That the Loomis plus the poor reception of that movie
or sorry death have done the pleasance and the poor
reception of that movie just really put it into that
because if you remember in the book, they were the
next movie was one hundred going to be straight to
DVD with no name actors, and it wasn't until Jamie
Lee Curtis agreed to make h two oh that they
actually got a theatrical release. Like it was, the series

(59:28):
was dead to right, so it was gonna they were
gonna go the hell Raiser route and just pour pump
out direct to DVD sequels every two years, and then
because Jamie the Curtis came back, funding came back, and
then franchise kept going.

Speaker 1 (59:41):
I'm really glad, Like, I'm glad that I've been able
to experience this original one in theaters multiple times that
I've seen, you know, the David Gordon Green theaters that
I was able to also see both of the Rob
Zombie movies and theaters. Like, I'm really kind of glad
to kind of exist this in this era where I

(01:00:01):
get to see this guy and that you know, we
don't necessarily get him having being dead rights or that
have a directive video era, because as much as I
think there are cool things that hell Raiser did directive video,
nothing compares to the og original one, you know. And

(01:00:25):
I think the same thing can be said for Michael
Myers here.

Speaker 4 (01:00:28):
Michael Myers the Internet would have been pretty cool.

Speaker 1 (01:00:32):
I'd be down for that.

Speaker 2 (01:00:34):
Yeah, how do you feel about the fact that there's
multiple Like I said, it's choose your adventure, but each
different storyline has so many unanswered questions?

Speaker 4 (01:00:48):
Mm hmm.

Speaker 1 (01:00:51):
That's a really good question because one of the one
of the things I really like would have loved to
see as an answer question is so they did a
proposed sequel where Patrick Melton and Marcus Dunston, the guys
that had made My Bloody Valentine three D, were going
to come in and actually complete the Rob Zombie. It's

(01:01:13):
not gonna be a duology, it's gonna be a trilogy,
and they were going to do it. They were going
to have the same kind of tone set to it,
and honestly, like if you've heard me kind of talk
about it on Andy's podcast or you've met me the
Cope last year when we screened H two, you know
what that movie means to me, and I would have
loved to kind of see it kind of kind of

(01:01:35):
complete that story in kind of that vision, but it
has that very ambiguous ending that again, completely fine with that.
Just as an example, I think there are so many
different things that I think are just kind of left
open for interpretation. As we've talked about only enough want
to answer your question. It's kind of frustrating, but doesn't

(01:02:00):
make me hate this franchise any less. This franchise means
a great deal to me.

Speaker 2 (01:02:04):
Well, and you've got we both want to know what
happens with the whole Thorn thing where that went Halloween
is answered absolutely nothing of the ending of Halloween kills,
why he's returning to the house, why he is the way.

(01:02:26):
I mean, no human would have gotten up from that beating,
and he proceeded to just lay waste to everybody, and
they left all that just kind of out in the open, like, oh, yeah,
we're just going to forget all that, And that's that's
been my biggest issue with the Halloween series is there's
so many interesting storylines that they could have gone with,

(01:02:49):
but they've finished none of them.

Speaker 1 (01:02:52):
So to your point in.

Speaker 4 (01:02:54):
Yeah, I think.

Speaker 5 (01:02:57):
I was gonna say, yeah, I think the kind of
curse of it really is like we only abandoned storylines
because the movies aren't good. If they make a great movie,
they continue the storyline, so we'd never really get a
satisfying ending because it's it's like if they like each two,
one was awesome, and so then we got Resurrection, and
then that wasn't awesome, so then we pivoted. So it's like,

(01:03:18):
I just think the reason we end up with a
lot of questions is because a subpart movie comes out
and then you know they're not really just died in
the story tell like they're justted in making a profitable film.
So they're like, yeah, well, no, of course the Thorn's
not making money. Let's start it in the garbage, like
you know, Rob Zombih two didn't make money, Like Robs
ONBH one, Let's go in the garbage, like Resurrection didn't
make Yeah. So I think it's just kind of like

(01:03:39):
the nature of the Beast where it's so we're going
to get a lot of bad endings to storylines because
that's when they end the storylines. When the movies are
bad and they don't make money.

Speaker 1 (01:03:48):
It's very reactionary, and it very much sucks because there's
you know, at the end of the day, like I
get it, this is a business. That's part of the
reason that when you know, we pivot from Halloween two
in nineteen eighty one to you know, oh, the way
that we originally envisioned this franchise was to be a
anthology series before you know, Creep Show or Black Mirror

(01:04:13):
or a lot of the you know, a lot of
the more common house ones that we know outside of
like you know, Twilight Zone were commonplace, and you know,
when it didn't do well, then Universal was kind of like, ah,
we don't want it to do this, and so that's
why you know, four and five are released independently until

(01:04:33):
the Weinstein's get to get their hands on it in
part six and then start producing you know, six h
two O Resurrection, And again it's very much this like
this business mindset. And I don't know, man, I think
that you know, when you look at the first film here,
I think this film's I think this film is perfect.

(01:04:56):
I guess, like there's still stories that are unanswered, but
it's almost kind of this like ambiguous aspect of the
storytelling that Carpenter and Hill present here. And I think
there's always been for better or for worse. I think
that's always kind of been a factor moving in to
the series as a whole past this on top of

(01:05:19):
you know, being reactionary to a lot of these things,
like Andy was saying, all right, well, I we're going
to end on a little special treat for you guys.
So a few years ago I had the chance to
sit down and actually talk with Sheriff Brackett himself, Charles Ciphers,

(01:05:44):
and is one of its one of the highest honors
that I've ever been able to do as a journalist.
So we're going to leave you guys with that interview
and we'll be back next week to talk about Jaws.
But before then, Andy, where can people find you? And
check out the podcast?

Speaker 5 (01:06:03):
You can find us where new where podcasts are downloaded.
I love what I Love, and you find us on
social media at lwy L podcast.

Speaker 1 (01:06:17):
Mark, I think answer where people find you online? That's
right outside of this episode that dropped at midnight part
of the nine years submission. I think that Victims and Villains,
our parent company, is currently doing. You guys can check
us out every Wednesday at six pm Eastern Standard time.
Wherever you get your podcasts from, This is the only

(01:06:38):
thing that Mark is really known for these days. So Billy,
where can people find you?

Speaker 7 (01:06:44):
They can find me at Letterbox at v A Boy
ninety nine.

Speaker 1 (01:06:48):
You guys can also find me. I am also on
letterbox at Captain Nostalgia, and you guys can also check
out our parent company, Victims and Villains. We are in
the midst of nine years of mental health awareness. This
is nine years of mission. So not only are we
celebrating one hundred and fifty episodes, but we're also celebrating
nine years of mental health awareness. And we just wrapped

(01:07:10):
up a monumental series covering all of the Mission Impossible movies.
You guys can check that out wherever you guys get
your podcasts from. So until next time, remember the longer
that you gaze into the Abyss, the more of the
Abyss cases back into you. Once again, we're leaving you, guys.
This is our interview with Charles Cipher's. Hope you guys

(01:07:31):
enjoyed it.

Speaker 10 (01:07:38):
Well, I got a special tree for you guys this morning.
I'm actually here with Sheriff Bracket himself. Mister Charles Ciphers,
how are you doing it this morning?

Speaker 4 (01:07:45):
Sir?

Speaker 3 (01:07:45):
Hey, I'm doing well. Thank you and you I'm well.

Speaker 10 (01:07:48):
I'm this this is surreal. Like Halloween's my favorite movie
of all time, so this is probably one of my
favorite interviews I've ever gotten in conduct.

Speaker 3 (01:07:56):
Oh good, good, good, glad to be here help you out.

Speaker 1 (01:08:00):
So I'm gonna ask you a deep cut question.

Speaker 10 (01:08:03):
Originally, so we're a couple months away from Halloween Kills,
highly anticipated, obviously, this is your first time since eighty
one coming back to the rule, but.

Speaker 11 (01:08:16):
This particular role, yeah, yeah, yeah, they sort of sent
me out my way after my daughter ate it.

Speaker 3 (01:08:25):
So you know, she got her throat cut. And in
terms of Halloween.

Speaker 10 (01:08:30):
However, here's something that a lot of people may or
may not know, is that they've been trying to get
you back for a lot. There's a lot of unproduced
Halloween content out there. Yeah, and I'm wondering if you
can kind of talk about One of the ones that
I recently came across was a script where you were
going to be teaming up with well Laurie Strode's son himself,

(01:08:52):
Josh Hartnett from H two O.

Speaker 3 (01:08:54):
I don't know too much about that. I honestly this
news to me.

Speaker 11 (01:09:00):
It's new to me, but I you know, it came
along and it was a good thing.

Speaker 3 (01:09:05):
And you know, you figure seventy eight.

Speaker 11 (01:09:09):
To this current one. You don't usually get called back
from movies. I mean, that's a long time and there
you go. So there I am, you know, and I
came back and it was a nice work of course
with the virus put it on the shelf for two days,
two years, but there you go.

Speaker 10 (01:09:26):
You know, I wonder if you can kind of talk
about like the environment of like the original like seventy eight,
kind of like how groundbreaking it was.

Speaker 3 (01:09:36):
Did you guys. It was like a bunch of kids
doing a movie. Really was.

Speaker 11 (01:09:40):
I mean, we worked on I worked in on a
week with Donald Pleasants and I think the whole shoot
was three weeks. So it went quick. And we all
know about the money issue, there's not much. It made
a lot of money, you know, but in the meantime
it's been great. It didn't take off that quick, and
then it did. It was great to be associated with.

(01:10:03):
And I worked with John Carpenter seven different projects, so
you know, I that was That.

Speaker 3 (01:10:10):
Was pretty nice. I enjoyed it. Yeah, any more questions
about Halloween or no.

Speaker 10 (01:10:16):
So I'm actually gonna want to kind of derail because
I feel like a lot of like people like know
you from Halloween, Sheriff Bracket, and I want to talk
about some of like you know, your other like what
are some of your other favorite projects that you worked
on over the years?

Speaker 1 (01:10:29):
Load a question.

Speaker 11 (01:10:29):
I know the thousands of TV shows, Major League, you
know I did that.

Speaker 3 (01:10:37):
What's the other one? I'm looking in the back cod here.

Speaker 10 (01:10:40):
We got Assault on Precinct thirteen, Escape, they did Elvis.

Speaker 11 (01:10:44):
The stuff for Carpenter, you know is Elvish. Let me
see you got the Halloween two. I'm just trying to
think of some of the other films I've done. Did
Clint Eastwood's thing, trying to think of the name of
that one.

Speaker 3 (01:11:00):
But uh, you know, I just.

Speaker 11 (01:11:02):
Have worked a bunch of over the years, quite a bit,
I mean, you know, so it's all fading into the
background now.

Speaker 10 (01:11:11):
And I mean obviously like there's got to be something
about John Carpenter because you you know, like you said,
like seven different projects.

Speaker 11 (01:11:17):
I mean, I I was in a sort of repertory
company at the beginning because we started with you know,
at selten Priesteing thirteen, and then I just worked with them,
you know.

Speaker 3 (01:11:29):
From there on out. So it was fun.

Speaker 11 (01:11:32):
And then all good things come to an end and
things changed, you know, because then the studios took over,
and when the studios take over, some of the park
goes out the window.

Speaker 4 (01:11:44):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:11:44):
So but I was grateful, you know, for the for
the work thing. You grateful. I see, I'm always amazed
at how many new fans there are. Good. Yeah, it's unbelievable.

Speaker 11 (01:11:58):
It's like they start off some of them are eighty
like my age, and down to about eight or nine
years old. There were being kids, you know, you know,
but it's great to be connected with the project like that.

Speaker 3 (01:12:12):
I'm glad I did it.

Speaker 11 (01:12:13):
And you know, we had a nazy over there when
she sits down, I mean she's played my daughter, you know, and.

Speaker 3 (01:12:22):
So we you know, we turn around do these things.
It's been fun. You know.

Speaker 10 (01:12:28):
Well, so much of your filmography I feel like, you know,
whether it's Halloween or like the Escape duology, you know,
so much of that is like it's it's almost kind
of like timeless to a degree. So you have like
generations that are constantly like showing like other generations.

Speaker 11 (01:12:43):
Started off with Halloween and there you go. Now the
new stuff I'm not you know, I don't know much
about I mean, you know, the High I mean, all
these different shows.

Speaker 3 (01:12:52):
I just don't watch them. You know.

Speaker 11 (01:12:55):
I'm not a big ye in that one. Although it's
the anniversary this year for Escape from New York. I
think it's forty years, could be forty ye. So Tom
Atkins and I did that and a number of other people,
so you know, that was another fun thing to do,
you know, fun thing to do.

Speaker 10 (01:13:16):
So my last question for you is, obviously, as the
fandom specifically for Halloween has grown, Yeah, is you know,
obviously people look to it sometimes and be like, oh, this,
this piece of cinema or this franchise has like helps
my mental health. It's helped me get through a divorce. Like,
how does that like impact you as an actor?

Speaker 3 (01:13:36):
Well, now rephrase that again.

Speaker 10 (01:13:39):
So there are stories that have come out over the
years talking about like how Halloween and like other films
like that you've mentioned, like Fog Salt or appreciated, like
how that has impacted specifically someone to like get through
get over like depression and like mental health issues, Like
how does that make you feel as an actor?

Speaker 3 (01:13:58):
No, it's fine, you.

Speaker 11 (01:13:59):
Know, I mean, I you know, I think if anybody
enjoys it, that's the main thing, you know, In terms
of my stuff.

Speaker 3 (01:14:08):
I was just glad to work. You know. Nice kid,
you know, nice job.

Speaker 11 (01:14:13):
But we've we've done well with the conventions and things
of that sort, you know.

Speaker 3 (01:14:19):
But thanks for doing this. I appreciate it.

Speaker 1 (01:14:21):
Thank you so much.

Speaker 3 (01:14:22):
Okay, you're welcome. All right, I go with chrules, all right,

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Halloween (1978) | Episode #150

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Halloween (1978) | Episode #150