EP168 - Entrevista | La recaída de Manuel - Metanfetamina

Escucha el podcast en Spreaker.com, Youtube y TODAS LAS PLATAFORMAS de audio como Spotify, Apple Podcast, Google, iVox, iHeartRadio, TuneIn, etc.
 
¿Te quieres poner contacto conmigo o participar en algún episodio? Mándame un correo a [e-mail] y hazme llegar tus comentarios.
 
El podcast de Adiós Adicción NO BRINDA ASESORÍA MÉDICA. La información compartida en este podcast es solo para fines informativos y no intenta ser un sustituto a los consejos, diagnósticos o tratamientos médicos de ningún tipo. Por lo tanto consulta a tu médico o a otro profesional de salud si es que tienes alguna duda sobre tu estado de salud o de el como tratar tu adicción.

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Goodbye addiction. Episode number one hundredand sixty- eight and I was going
to relapse it with a fucking drugthat' s garbage. This is terror
It' s fear. What Iwas doing for you. You already did
it for me says when I gotthere, you went to the first one.
You were the one who shamed thebooks. You were the one who
stayed out of the group. Becauseof me, you were, I mean,

(00:22):
starting to feel like I was gettingback. That I didn' t
know what I gave. It filledme with illusion, filled me with hope.
I said this is where I haveto be. Welcome. Welcome once
again, my name is in Gregorichiña. Just as I always see you welcome
a new episode of goodbye addiction,which is being recorded in the year two

(00:47):
thousand twenty- four in March ofthe year two thousand twenty- four.
I thank you very much for theopportunity that you are giving me to accompany
me on one more occasion, inone more conversation that I have held with
Manuel. You' ll remember.Manuel was participating in the one hundred and
fifty- one episode, in whichhe was telling us part of his recovery.

(01:08):
Although today is to give us aslightly different message. Manuel has had
to restart his account after two yearsof sobriety, and today he is going
to be sharing with us how itarose, the things that happened before,
how it developed and the consequences ofhaving had to start again or, in

(01:34):
other words, the consequences of itsrelapse. Then I ask you, please,
stay if, in any case,you are interested or interested in knowing
again the complement now of Manuel's story. I would also like to
remind you that you can contact methrough the email Gregory Arroba addiction com and

(01:57):
that you can also visit me onthe YouTube page. YouTube com Diagonal addiction.
You will find exclusive content for theYouTube page. I have already published
episodes at this moment that you willonly see there with information that you will
only find there, which I donot intend to put in the audio episodes.
So, if you haven' tbeen and you haven' t signed

(02:20):
up, I suggest you do itas well right now. I want to
tell you that I' m doinglive episodes. In case you want to
join please activate the notifications so thatI notify you at the moment I am
live. Then maybe you could asksome questions or comments that I can answer
at that time or, if necessary, some greetings that can make me happy
and accompany me in that transmission aswell. Then remember Gregory arroba addiction com

(02:46):
in case you wanted to participate byrecording an audio episode, or if you
wanted to receive the questions that Iregularly ask participants and you wanted to send
them to me with your answers andI read them so that someone else can
listen to them, because remember thatyou don' t know when you can

(03:06):
change someone' s life. Well, as announced here, he is with
me today, Manuel, whom Ihave to thank very much because he had
his participation at the beginning of Septemberof the year two thousand twenty- three,
where he came, shared his experience. He was able to share from
very small to the reality that Hewas living in September, one of the

(03:32):
most downloaded episodes, one of theepisodes that most mailed. It obviously generated
because the people who listened to it, I think, identified themselves in a
great way with the experience that Manuelshared with us in that episode. And
I have to thank Manuel very muchon this occasion, because today he does

(03:54):
not need to give us a continuationof that experience that he was going through,
but rather he comes to share withus an experience that not everyone likes
to recognize, especially when we relapseis very difficult, because we worry what

(04:15):
they will say, We worry aboutwhat others can say. And today,
Manuel, with great courage, comesto talk about the relapse that he had
a few weeks ago and also consideringthat he had already been practically two years
sober. And that, that hasa lot of value. That really has

(04:42):
to be recognized, so, wellhe allows you to ask yourself how you
are today, Today. I'm fine, I feel better today.
Thank you so much for everything andgood morning to everyone. Good morning,
Manuel, as I mentioned at thetime. You had a stake. If
someone who listens to me today hasn' t heard Manuel' s participation before.

(05:06):
Please, you have to go toepisode number one hundred and fifty-
one. It' s a longepisode, but by far, a lot
of content that can help that personwho is at best in a situation similar
to yours like you, you foundwhat you went through, Manuel, and
I remember at that moment, infact, for those who want to listen,

(05:27):
Let me put a clip on itright now, Manuel, because I
also want to ask you what wakesyou up. Once we went through that
interview, where it was published andwhere you saw and heard more than what
you had to say, I wantto ask you, five months and fraction
later, what wakes you up.The following and when less agreement was good

(05:53):
enough to see me completely defeated infront of the crack that is where I
no longer kept money or to putgasoline in my car, where I no
longer had suddenly nor money to buyme cigarettes. And I, because I
didn' t come to my houseto listen to my husband' s claims,

(06:15):
I often preferred to stay and sleepand get high there alone. And
when I was there I said itwasn' t already, I' m
not going to use drugs again,never again, never again with tears in
my eyes I said it. Ireally felt that I wanted to stop I
didn' t want any more,and you know what was the biggest thing

(06:36):
that that same day I went outI used again and you know that suddenly
I turn to the door and mymom was looking well stoned and with tears
in her eyes she begged me toplease stop getting high and not being able,
not being able, but you stoppedManuel, you stopped for practically two

(06:57):
years. What happened? It wasan event, it was a meeting of
several things. I read the perfectstorm, the emotions, things that happened,
the feeling that it had already beentwo years and that maybe I was

(07:24):
the exception to the rule and Icould do it. It must be made
clear that I never stopped attending mymeetings. I go to my meetings every
day and do service and this andthat. But still. I started to
feel a lot here we did inmy group. I started to see the

(07:46):
others, the people who have moretime, like little ones and ears,
we tell them as less. Istarted feeling the ego came up on me.
I began to feel that it wasmore me than the others, that
I knew more than the others,that I, I, that I was

(08:09):
fine and that I felt superior tothem, because I was so. I
looked at him. Besides, thingshappened, my mom was here with me,
she fell and hurt herself and thenI started to feel depressed and besides
I walked because, as in theinterview I say because I' ve been

(08:33):
married for many years I' vebeen unfaithful and the perfect storm came together
so that what happened would happen.That' s what I' ve been
talking about in fact, very recentlyI said it, I repeated it again
that it was that the Manuel relapse, as you know, has been going

(08:58):
on for a long time. Well, a long time ago, not necessarily.
It is the consummation, the actof whether it is alcohol, the
consuming of the act of drinking orconsummation, the act of introducing the substance
of your choice is not necessarily therelapse. That is consummating the act of
relapse. But the relapse is wellknown that happens in your mind from before

(09:18):
I had the opportunity to review yourprevious participation and, if you also mention
your chronic depression that accompanied you formany years, I had the opportunity to
be, at least in the distancewith you, when you also shared that
part of the infidelity where you wantedto listen. I probably imagine it was

(09:41):
at that time when I wanted tohear the best of the Council of things
that were going through your mind andthat we are talking about, which already
has a few months, obviously afteryour participation in September, Manuel you consider
that from that moment I believe howyou are as you have said now I

(10:01):
was already flattening the way without realizingit, but you consider that you were
already on the way to consummating thatact of relapse as such is since then
notice that I consider that yes,because I have my godfather and I have
my father did not tell absolutely everything, everything, everything. Then either we

(10:24):
had already put that problem on thetable, especially the walking of unfaithfulness.
We knew if we had talked toher. A red light had already been
learned there because normally when I wasgoing to meet a person, I usually
don' t mean always, butmany times they were using this, this

(10:50):
methamphetamine. But I thought that Ihad none that for me, I was
so afraid of that drug that Isaid that drug, because I will never
use it because, because I havealready seen the consequences, because I have
seen them in someone else then Ifelt like I was so afraid of that
drug that I was exempt from usingit because of the fear that I had

(11:11):
to see it. In fact,you know what. Manuel. Let me
interrupt you. I have prepared,in fact, your own voice saying exactly
that and I also want, infact, to have this opportunity, because
you are practically telling us right nowthat it was precisely methamphetamine that went through
this time along the way. Andjust stop putting on what you thought.

(11:33):
About five months ago, with mycircle of friends that I started over time,
they began to switch to another drug, which is the Christ Met the
Crystal. Then to me that fearthat you, of which you are talking
to me, I felt it.They started jumping for that other drug and

(11:56):
I started to see its decline why, because the drug lasts a lot longer,
it' s cheaper. And soall his friends, when I got
together, they started using that,that drug and me, that fear you
' re talking about, it wasthe one who told me not to go
in there, because you' regoing to like it and that' s

(12:18):
worse and me, thanks to thatfear, I didn' t go into
the Cristal. That fear for somereason you stopped feeling and entered the Crystal.
It did happen, so it becamecommon. It became common for people
to be using that stuff around meand I didn' t feel like trying

(12:43):
it and you were curious about thesame fear I had. Then it became
easy for me and I followed andfollowed and I followed, although I told
you that I had already practiced itwith my best man, my father had
already told me to be careful,you must put all your willpower. And

(13:05):
more than that, because telling himthat not something that gives you pleasure in
this case sexual is much more difficultthan any other kind of situation. And
so the truth is, I heardit and believed it, but I did
absolutely nothing to avoid putting myself atrisk. It is expected at that moment,

(13:28):
in that dynamic for those who donot know him, Manuel, the
dynamics of the godfather and the sponsor. How easy or difficult is it to
open up with all this? Andif he represented you in your beginnings some
kind of concern about what my godfatherwill think at first, what that dynamic

(13:58):
is like and if you rarely considerwho you choose as godfather form or have
an important role in your rehabilitation.Of course, the best man is the
guide. It is that person youchoose to let yourself be guided, especially
by a godfather who already has theexperience, already has his years, who

(14:22):
has already walked the path of sobriety, who has usually already gone through all
the things that I still have tolive for. The godfather is a fundamental
part of anyone' s recovery.And on the other question, how difficult
it is is completely sincere. It' s super hard. It hasn'

(14:46):
t been easy for me to behonest, to be honest is something super
difficult, especially with this kind ofthing, with this kind of embarrassing thing,
with this one with dishonesty, withmy partner, with things I'
ve done that are embarrassing. I' d like to, because my ego

(15:11):
makes me say no, there's no need for you to say this
better. I keep it quiet everytime, so nothing happens. And you
have to struggle with these kinds ofsituations and take off all the masks,
all the masks that you have overtime put on, at least with that
person, because it is well knownthat for our recovery we need above all

(15:37):
God and another human being. Let' s remove the mask. Then Manuel,
also referring to another podcast. Infact, you recommended to me that
we have the mask and wines rightnow, what really happened to those seconds,
before or minutes or maybe hours beforewe had your contact with methamphetamine.

(16:03):
But, if you allow me,you can also ask yourself if you have
to number as many as you want, but if you don' t have
to say right now, which oneyou consider to be the most important factor,
you can say one, two threewhat you want to say to take

(16:26):
you up to that moment, totake you up to that second before you
take methamphetamine tell us. That part, Manuel, how it all came out.
Okay, I' m going tosay, just like it happened without
hiding anything, just like, likewe' re going to start a few
hours earlier, because I was alreadysaying that I was carrying on with the

(16:47):
onset of a depression, with problems, with problems with my ego to feel
superior to others. The problem thatmy mom had fallen and is still bad
and stuff, that is, thingsthat got together formed the perfect storm that
day, because I started like everyday and normally, if I can go
to half day, I go toanother group that is not mine and went

(17:08):
to that group. I had previouslymet this person, that is, because
I was unfaithful, not just withone person. I went on an application
and went on to meet several,but especially this person I liked physically,
I attracted quite a lot and itwas already seen as three or four times

(17:32):
and I liked it and from thefirst time he took out his drug and
started asking me permission look at you, asked me permission to get high and
tells me you let me smoke andwhat surprises me right now is the bullshit
that I told you clearly. I' m telling you, it' s
better for me because you' regetting more horny. That was my stupid

(17:53):
answer. Well, I arrived theday this happened. I came to the
East Group, which I almost alwaysvisit, and sent me a text and
I want to see you immediately,so feel the adrenaline, feel that desire
to see it I said clearly.Yeah, of course, I never,

(18:15):
ever, ever leave before a meetingis over forever. But for me it
is very important to say the statementof responsibility, which is something that in
all groups in Spanish we do tosay that part that I am responsible.
Whenever, wherever, someone extends theirhuman asking for help. I' m

(18:36):
responsible. Then I like it.I mean, that' s like the
seal that the board' s over. Then that day was fifteen minutes before
the meeting was over and I left. I left because I was already desperate
waiting for him and I went toa hotel and started the ritual to me.

(18:57):
There we go, he starts takingout his stuff, his pipe,
his ligrer, his everything and hestarts and he throws him east and he
starts smoking and with that mother hepulls out a smoke like a cloud and
like the third hit he' sgoing to give him. Put the smoke
away and it comes up to meand with the smoke in my mouth and

(19:21):
passes it to me from mouth tomouth. But the most impressive thing is
that one put in any kind ofresistance. I mean, I didn'
t say no not even ace didn' t even think about it and I
no longer accepted it about five secondsafter I had it and I had it
in my mouth. I felt aheat all over the body, a tingling

(19:45):
all over the body and liked it. I liked how I felt. Usually
they use that drug to have sexbecause it helps them. And as soon
as I released the smoke, Ifelt very squeaky in my eyes, in
my ears. I felt something good. I felt something very, very rich.

(20:06):
A few minutes later I tell himto see again pass me over,
pass me over and he passed itto me. And the third time I
tell her to give me the pipe, give me the air, give me
everything and tell me how. AndI started, I started, and as
soon as I grabbed the pipe inmy hands, I realized that it was

(20:33):
worth mothers, that is, I, I knew the consequences, I knew
what was coming next. I knewhow bad I was going to the evil
that was waiting for me, butyou know what I didn' t care
about at the time. At thattime he wasn' t strong enough to

(20:57):
say no. Okay. He alreadytried it once, I try it sometimes
no more. There he is.It wasn' t all the other way
around, because the bad thing isthat I' m a person who doesn
' t, that is, Iexaggerate everything. It' s all an
exaggeration to me. It' salways a lot. I get mad,

(21:18):
as they say, I get madand I start to panic, I start
to feel because a lot of good, because what I' ve seen many
give them for sex, it givesthem for having sex, I don'
t give to me for panicking,for being in the window, that is,
I spent it in that window threedays and three nights thinking that someone

(21:40):
was coming after me that was goingto happen, this that the police that
the hotel employees and that, thatis, horrible, horrible that is,
and the last one was not fulfilled, or I didn' t get what
I wanted to get and what Iwanted to get, because it was sexual
relationships better than the previous ones.And so it went well, in broad

(22:00):
features. So it was many thingsto ask you from that part, Manuel,
The first thing is the short memory, which I just said, in
fact, in the episode that waspublished last week with Ever the short memory
that we have with you in thiscase. It was two years, after
all, but conscious, aware thatit was what was coming, being unable

(22:21):
to say no. That' sone of the great things that determine us,
that define us to the people thatwe know we can' t control
our way of consuming, not saying. I know this is gonna get me
wrong? I know this is goingto lead me to a situation that is
going to be very complicated for meor for my family and yet not being

(22:42):
able to stop that is for youthat if you ask yourself that you listen
to me right now, you wholisten to me right now, if you
ask yourself if you have a problemor you don' t have a problem,
if it happens to you that you' re already thinking about a future
how bad it' s going tobe, let me tell you that if
you have a problem, then andyou have to do something about it.

(23:03):
In this case, Manuel, thatconsumption you knew what was coming. You
weren' t able to stop him. Or it' s not about judging
anyone here. I mean, youknow you weren' t able to.
Point is the way we are.We' re not who we are and
you couldn' t stop him beyondyou didn' t want to, you
couldn' t stop him, youdidn' t get what you wanted,

(23:26):
but you just commented that you werethree days and three nights stuck to that
window. Tell me what happened then, after having consumed, after feeling that
tingling and then you do enter directlyto aspirate that, what happened in the
next few hours or even in thenext few days. It was horrible.
It was awful to know that he' d sent it all away. It
was horrible to accept that I hadto be completely honest, to know that

(23:55):
I had to tell all those peoplethat I was believing in me that that
was supporting me, that I sawin me to some extent. Or an
example I' ve never wanted,looking at me as an example. I
' ve never wanted it, butthere are people who do it to know
that I had to do it tothem, to know what had happened.
So, not to be thinking aboutall that, not to be thinking about

(24:19):
all the consequences that were coming,because the easiest thing was to keep on
getting high and keep on getting highand keep on getting high, look at
yourself in a moment, because whathe was wearing, because it' s
over. Then, I tell you, get more. We need the problem
more since that thing I was smokingit like it was stone and that thing

(24:42):
is smoking different. And because Iwas smoking in a compulsive way, in
a very this way because more frog. He talked to some people so they
could take us there to the hotel, because two more people arrived and at
one point we were four people inthe hotel room in the hotel room four

(25:08):
people and I mean, three otherthan me and notice that I don'
t know what happened to those catswho thought we were going to fuck,
that we' re going to havesex. And all of a sudden,
because I' m stuck, Ididn' t care and I no longer

(25:30):
threw that money into the bed andrealized that they' re framed and trying
to touch me and I was dressed, I mean, I was dressed and
I was ready to be arrested.I was ready for it to happen.
The worst thing you understand for meto get to Alex Is my husband'

(25:52):
s name called Alexpa that Alex cameto get people who knew me? I
don' t know, I mean, I was ready for everything, except
what they were thinking and they weretouching me and I was pushing them away.
No. No. Don' tyou? Don' t you?
Don' t you? No,and I mean in a way that'
s good, I mean, rememberthose moments of my despair, of my

(26:15):
anguish and, above all, ofthat paralyzing fear, that fear that doesn
' t let you run, thatfear that doesn' t let you act
more than fear. It was ahorrible, horrible terror, I mean,
no. It wasn' t somethingI didn' t enjoy at all,
which is why I went down ona drug. It was my relapse,

(26:37):
it was a drug I was soafraid of that I had never tried.
It wasn' t with the drugthat made me fall in love. Right.
It' s not with crack canvill that crack makes me feel something
so incredible, something so indescribable thatI haven' t managed to feel it
with anything else, not with asubstance, not with another person, not

(27:00):
with him sex, not with moneyor with power. I haven' t
been able to feel it more thanwith crack and I was going to relapse
it with a fucking drug that's garbage. This is terror It'
s fear. Let me ask youManuel if it can be shared after the
comment I' m going to make, but how many days was it then

(27:22):
you had and how it was atthe time then that you decided. OK.
I' ve got to stop now. But first let me tell you
that I' m very much likeyou, at least with that particular drug.
I mean I don' t wantto make a competition that who'
s more or less or more,but the truth that there is for me
of the things in good quotes,if you can say, is that I
' m also afraid of the useof any of any drugs. I remember

(27:48):
some time ago I shared and thatI had experienced some others some three four
years ago, already having the podcastand others, in fact, I did
an episode of it and so manyworry me that the expected effect, as
you comment, does not develop onme. I really did stay so I
don' t know, I don' t mean panicked, because it'

(28:12):
s not really that, but I' m so worried that something bad isn
' t going to happen to methat anyone doesn' t know if they
inhibit any effects that certain drugs aresupposed to have. And I' m
never gonna give marijuana a chance againbeyond being legal here in this part of
Canada. Well, in Canada,as such because at least the two or

(28:32):
three experiences I had were very,very, very clear, which are definitely
not for me. Then there itis. I understand in part the fact
that I do not experience the expectedeffect of the drug, but rather something
completely different. But at all this, then Manuel there was a moment,
after several days of consumption in otherparts of Mexico, Maybe tell him that

(28:55):
you got stuck you were stuck,not really about consuming. Let' s
say, there wasn' t atime to say you know what it was
or if you want to share somemore of those moments, of those days
that happened, if we didn't jump straight to the moment you decided
ok and it was and we weregoing to start over. Yeah, of
course I was going to keep sharingabout still being at the hotel. How

(29:18):
I started because my way, becauseit was exaggerated of an exaggerated consumption,
because I began to feel very bad. My eyes turned, they were red,
red, red that didn' tdistinguish the black, that is,
the white. It was red redred red and black in the eye,

(29:38):
as it was almost undifferentiated. Atremor because I didn' t sleep,
I didn' t eat, Ididn' t bathe or I didn'
t drink water and I started tofeel very bad. I started above all
with those damn tremors that wouldn't let me see my eyes. How
they were crying and crying and meand the person who was with me,

(30:03):
because the others were already gone.How he started to get scared to see
me like this and then the desireto start saying that he had had the
fault to forgive him, that becauseof him I had fallen back, because
he had already given him long traits, I had already told him that I
was obvious, that I was strugglingwith my addiction and that this and that

(30:26):
the other one in broad traits andhe was listening to him, that he
was blaming himself, because no,I mean, he was bothering me to
listen and whatever he was giving meadvice that he was telling me this,
that I was wrong, that Ishouldn' t have done that and that
this and that the other one startedto bother me started to slip away.

(30:52):
After three days, I started ona Thursday, on a Thursday at about

1 (30:56):
00 p m, and I finished on a Saturday at 5:
00 p m. It was exactlymy last smoke. We left the hotel,
of course it was completely paniqued.I felt like all the cars and
all the people I looked at wererealizing and they were following me that they

(31:18):
were undercover cops that, that is, everything I related to I mean,
chin of the book of persecution,that I had never felt in a very
cruel way. And then, then, having to tell him either, that
is, it' s already over, it' s over and as I

(31:41):
was going, because I went topick up this boy because I had to
take him back and he was longon the road and have to drive like
that, that is, I don' t know how I took him there,
as far as he lives and beforehe got off, I told him
everything that was left. I mean, because I didn' t buy a

(32:04):
fridge, a fridge of baggies andlike that very cheap thing, because they
had a lot and I had alot left and the pipes and the leaders,
those that are like a like,they are such strong airs, and
all that is like a blowtorch,but many and many pipes and lots of

(32:27):
bags, that is, in anexaggerated way, and give it to him,
give it to him and I toldhim right now I ran out of
Paris. I don' t wantany more of that, it' s
not all there anymore. I gaveit to him and he left and I
returned to my house with the passing, because a horrible panic that I felt

(32:50):
I thought that all the cars thatcame behind, those that came in front,
those that came to the side,were police. I don' t
know how fast it was coming.If I came very well that very slow,
I don' t know, Idon' t know, I don
' t know all I know isthat dó came overboard in an exaggerated way
and then arrived at my house afterthree days without answering the phone and the

(33:15):
phone and phone was paid. BecauseI didn' t want to, I
didn' t want to get called, I didn' t want to face
the questions that people were going toask me, especially my husband' s
and the people in my group,because, because I never missed my group
and then I missed three days likethat without warning, without them knowing what

(33:38):
was going on with me this Iknew that when I turned on my phone
it was going to be a sonadere, that it was going to be tim
Ba Timba and Timbi and tim andall the people worried. And this and
the other thing, well, Igot home and because my husband, logically,
was very worried. I open thedoor and he' s in the
living room. As soon as hesaw me, he tells me what happened.

(34:01):
You got high. I say yes, I fell, tells me how
much you are I tell you theamount is the least. I say what
' s really important is what Iused. I did it to myself.
He started asking me questions and Isay I don' t want to.

(34:22):
No, I want to, Idon' t want to answer, I
don' t want to talk.I just want to be alone I want
to be alone He tells me,but why and he started to claim me
I tell him you know what.I don' t want to be the
least I mean right now, everythingyou' re gonna tell me. I
know, I know I fucked up, so I' m an asshole and
I know I shouldn' t have. I don' t want to hear

(34:45):
it. I don' t wantto hear it. Please don' t
leave me alone for a little while. I' m sorry I watered it.
I know it' s more thaneverything you' re gonna tell me.
I know. I am the onlyone to blame for everything that happened
here and I closed the story thatno longer wanted to sleep, because I

(35:05):
was already tired. My body wastired and I closed my room and I
stayed there and started having those hallucinations. I started to see things that didn
' t exist, to hear things, to see what things were moving and,

(35:31):
above all, you know what.I focused a lot on the cameras
in my house, the cameras areall out around you. I started to
see things like demoniacs, like notreal things, but besides not real,

(35:51):
supernatural things, and I spent dayswatching in my cameras and seeing things notice
what impressed me the most is thatI live in one corner then I have
a trighway, an entrance that comesout on one street and goes out another

(36:13):
street. We parked his cars.There I have two cameras and I was
looking at a young person who wasthere and moving. Moreover, he brought
two bottles of water, one ineach hand and watched it move there.

(36:36):
And I was saying, what aboutthat person, what are you doing there,
what do you want? What doyou want, then the night came
and that person was still there andthen I went. I went to the
truth, but I mean, Ilooked at it, but no more.
I was looking through the camera.Don' t do it directly. I
couldn' t see him and Iput him using my phone, using my

(36:58):
phone. I stood in front ofhim because he couldn' t put the
phone on anymore and said what doyou want? Who are you? What
do you need? Are you?Either you' re the bad guy or
you' re not total pendejah.That kind of hallucination lasted for me for
many days. I think I wasapart from those three days, I think

(37:22):
it was at least five more dayswith hallucinations like that where things really didn
' t happen, but for methey did. They were completely real,
that is, hallucinations of five orsix or eight hours and look. One

(37:43):
of the things I did. Oneof the anions came to the police at
my house. He sculpted my yardall over the place. I don'
t know how my husband was arrestedapart from subtracting it, the cops beat
him, but it was a hallucinationand one of the biggest assholes I did

(38:06):
was to talk to my mother-in- law and tell him that Alex
had been arrested and that he wasin jail. Oh, not that kind
of thing. I mean, becauseit was real to me. It was
so real and leaving miso was wellworried and nothing else to make clear you
were no longer consuming. Manuel,that was after I was no longer consuming.

(38:27):
I stopped consuming that on Saturday atfive o' clock in the afternoon.
This was like double. I don' t know if he was on
Sunday or Monday. That event andunable to sleep, I mean, I
still could. I still couldn't sleep, couldn' t eat apart

(38:51):
that drug made me like a lotof little cuts in my tongue. Her
tongue was bleeding and she went andcouldn' t even drink water. When
I was talking, my tongue wasbiting. I don' t know what
happened, but my tongue swelled andmy husband, because that didn' t

(39:17):
go to work anymore. He waslocked in his room watching me through the
cameras, also listening to me seeinghow bad I was. The only thing
I remember is that we just screamedat the hospital. We need to go
to the hospital. We' regoing to the hospital and they didn'
t send us to the scrub.And today and see him that damn fear

(39:40):
that I already know in his eyes, see his impotence in the good,
not being able to help me.It should be emphasized that, since I
am sixteen years old, I gowith him for seventeen years. We'
re married, because he knows me, but perfectly and we' re like

(40:06):
three years old that we don't sleep together. He slept in one
bedroom, I sleep in another.But it was because of me that we
were in this situation, because Icaused him much, much, much harm
and the days passed, the dayspassed and I remained the same. I
kept talking alone or making noises,very rare, without sleeping, without eating,

(40:34):
without talking to anyone, with anyone, and the days passed and the
days passed. Oh, but thisis what I' m going through with
something very important to tell. Iarrived on Saturday at about 6 p m,
here at my house. The nextSunday I open my group at noon

(40:58):
on Sundays I am the coordinator andthe one who coordinated on Sundays at noon
that this meeting is just starting,barely has much time that we started to
do. So and this I knewthat the next day I had to go
to my group and I also knewthat I had to be completely honest.

(41:22):
I knew I had to say everythingthat was going on. But the next
day I was already, I wasn' t consuming, but I was crazy,
still crazy. Me my eyes,red, red, red. Like
a tomato. This is my mouth, my mouth, all dry, my
tongue bleeding. But I knew thatI had, I knew, I felt

(41:47):
that I had to go to mygroup as soon as possible. I had
to talk, I had to getall that out, I had to start
the recovery process as soon as possible. And so I went to my group.
Fortunately, there weren' t manypeople. We were like six people

(42:07):
and I was coordinating everything crazy,all crazy, before when the last person
got off, I asked someone elseto sit on the desk and climb up
to the grandstand of course that thosewho were there had already realized that I
was going crazy and going up tothe grandstand and telling them everything as I

(42:28):
am telling you everything without hiding anything, without exaggerating anything, everything as I
lived it and started crying. That' s when I started healing, when
I was honest and I talked abouteverything that happened. And then at night,
because I had another meeting and butI started sleeping there. I could

(42:53):
no longer have that meeting because mybody is already too tired and I slept
about two three hours and I didn' t go to the meeting, because
for this you see it made agossip, laughed a lot of gossip there,
Manuel fell and this and the other, and that the muck ah but

(43:15):
that has to be said also Iam the treasurer of my Group. I
' m the one with the moneyfrom my group. Then notice that something
happened that pissed me off two people. From there we have two people who
are twenty- two years old,who are twenty- two years old in

(43:36):
the program, that is, acouple, who were my friends, that
is, because I was doing wellwith everyone. I get along well,
I mean, I don' thave a problem with anyone, but I
get along well. The fart wasthat on Monday that came to my group
this because everyone looked at me verystrange, because I was still crazy,

(43:58):
I was still talking only me thebooks of persecution, that is, that
someone spoke to me like that.Suddenly I was scared of this one and
came to the group and met thesepeople and saw everything very weird. I
don' t know that in thewhole group I say something is going to
happen here and then they do tellme, you know what we' re

(44:21):
going to have an extraordinary meeting toremove you from your services. Ah bastard,
OK is fine, because he realizesthat they made me like a cut
guy where I' m sitting andI' m the defendant and this OK
is fine. Okay, I'm this one, but I was struggling

(44:42):
to talk about the tongue and becauseit was completely dry and my lips were
broken and my tongue was so bigand all that I was struggling to talk
and the meeting started and everyone wentup to the rostrum to give their point
of view if they took away myservices or if not, what a fart

(45:05):
those who accused me, because theywere that couple. But before that,
because I asked for the word asI could go. I remember that the
first words didn' t come outof my feelings, out of my tongue,
out of my swollen tongue, becauseit bit me. The words didn
' t come out of me andI went up to the rostrum, just
as I could tell them, becauseI didn' t. The first reaction
was to defend myself if you knowwhat. Well, this couple, these

(45:31):
people like to do this, theylike to do that, I tell you,
these extraordinary meetings. I knew themfor them, because they didn'
t fall on a servant and sendhim to the scrubbing with this kind of
meeting. In a way, Idefended myself. I defended myself because I
felt that, because in the programit is said that what we need to

(45:53):
do with some people with which comesrelapse, because all we need is to
give love and I bought to knowthat, because it is part of the
process the relapse and you know whatsurprised me most that everyone supported me or
not the services that they have left, because the service is part of the

(46:14):
recovery. Moreover, in the symbolof us, in the circle, three
words come and one of them isprecisely service. And in the end everyone
voted because I was left with myservices, with all my services, because
I have many services and no morethe two of them did not and I

(46:39):
felt supported. I felt good.Then there began to arise in me a
courage against them all, because Ifelt that, instead of leaning on me,
they had put my foot in azancadilla and had laid me down.
And when they throw me down andI put myself in the chest, my
foot on the neck felt in areally weird way and it will start to

(47:07):
generate hatred resentment resentment revenge towards themtwo then I concentrated on attacking and attacking
and attacking them and attacking them untilmy father didn' t lengthen me.
My best man grabbed me and tellsme this one, because that' s

(47:30):
where we started. He put thingson the table. Look, that thing
that happened to you is nothing extraordinary. It says more, there are times
that it is even necessary, thatthere are times that it needs something like

(47:50):
that to happen and I understood everythingimmediately. I mean, I said clearly,
of course I did, because asit was when I came to double
for the first time, I,then, came completely defeated, submitted to
all the broncs I had brought andcompletely willing to do whatever I had to
do to keep me, it isobvious. But as the problems were solved

(48:15):
or diminished, that desire or thatdisposition to do anything to keep me sober
went away. I too was walkingwith pure ego I was no longer fully
willing to do what I had todo to keep myself alone. There are

(48:37):
already many services and people always withme and I was doing many things,
but without that genuine desire. Andwhen my godfather grabbed me, because he
put me on, he told meall my truths and I accepted it and

(48:58):
I said clearly, of course,what he' s saying is the whole
truth. And I started to accepttrying to make it my fault sometimes.
It was me, it was me, people weren' t guilty, nobody,
nobody else. I was the onlyone and started to open up all

(49:22):
the consequences of that horrible depression,a depression of those depressions where you think
it' s better to be asleep, where you' re already asleep,
but without really sleep, no sleep, and so much case looked at is
sleepy and unable to eat. Ittook me almost nine days, I think,

(49:44):
to start eating I started sleeping twoor three hours, four hours and
so I kept it for nine days. It was horrible, it was something
you take care of. What Imentioned is the I use the short memory

(50:04):
term. But at the same timeI can tell you also honestly Manuel,
that in those lapses that I have, in those times that I give him
sometimes weeks, sometimes months of notconsuming, I do not mean that I
necessarily forget what I felt or howbad it happens to me, or not

(50:30):
being able to sleep after a bereavementof several days, not being able to
eat, having even diarrhea for severaldays. It' s not that that
' s gone from my mind,it' s not that I say no
anymore, I didn' t completelyforget. It' s more like what
' s going on inside you thatwakes you up, the excitement, the

(50:52):
despair, the anxiety, that's what maybe time goes by and it
minimizes it' s, it happensyeah cool, and those are the things
that I get. I say weforget, sometimes we need to revive it.
There are some kind of people,within whom, maybe I' ll

(51:13):
include that we have to have thisreminder. Fortunately, for me and I
tell the truth in quotation, Fortunately, for me I can let go of
those five months, six months andI prefer twenty thousand times more. That
' s about having what you're doing every day or having to be
doing it every weekend. I'd much rather have to say good in

(51:38):
six months. I need to crossthe same hell again in order to have
another six months of sobriety. SoI' m not saying it' s
the solution that everyone in the worldhas to look for. Nor do I
want to tell you openly what isthe solution that I have simply accepted and

(51:59):
being honest, is the dynamics thatI have seen, developed in recent years.
But anyway, the fact that you' ve lived after two years,
that' s again, because it' s a new beginning. It'
s a situation that you say,you know what, because if it'
s cannijo, if it' svery complicated, that I' ve already

(52:20):
gone through it is a good orbad experience. We learned from it all
and you have and you had tostart again at that time to a certain
extent. No longer with the knowledgeacquired of two years. It is not,
honestly start from the same point,but yes, at least continue with
that healing process again. A hypotheticalquestion I have to ask you Manuel is
what you think would have happened.What do you think would have happened if

(52:44):
they were expelled from the group.I know I don' t know what
I do. I know it wokeyou up a lot, a lot,
a lot of anger, a lotof courage, even to have been there.
I had it too, and Iwant to share it that has been
the benefit of your trust, whichI thank you very much. Manuel I
remember that message you sent at thebeginning of February, very moving, a

(53:07):
long message, with many tears,with screams drowned inside you, after having
gone through that experience, for beingpassing through. In fact, it was
in his days that you said thatyou had even had some illusions. The
truth was quite touching and I can' t imagine, I can' t
imagine what it was at that moment, almost a month ago, knowing that

(53:30):
you could still have added to thatthat he would have been expelled from the
group. I think I' dhave seen it happen. I don'
t think I' ve been kickedout of the group,' cause you
' ve got the same pile.You can' t do this. But
it' s gone, isn't it? But they' ve taken
my services away. I' veseen it, I' ve seen it

(53:52):
in other people like once someone's service was taken away, that person
usually resents and leaves the group andin extreme dice leaves anonymous alcoholics. You
understand me was the resentment, thecourage, the feeling that they' re
making me unfair. I think itwas minimal, minimal and it was one

(54:12):
of the demands that I made tothem, to that couple, because when
the meeting was over, of thatextraordinary meeting that they made me, because
we greeted and greeted him, Igreeted him and I when I greeted her
and he says giving me a hugand I look her in the eyes and
I say no, I can't give you a hug. I don
' t want to do it,I' m not sorry, I'

(54:35):
m not going to do it,you haven' t really realized the damage
you' ve caused me. Itell you what I should have received from
You was that love and understanding.I say you must know that why you
did this to me and I saywhat I did to you I told you
this happened to me is something thatcan happen to anyone. He said,
" Even to you I said no, I' m not going to do

(54:58):
something that I don' t wantto do what you did to me"
No more. Imagine I' mnot saying that anymore. Imagine if you
' d managed to convince these peopleto take my service away from me.
Imagine what I would have felt,what I would have done. I say
remember I' m crazy. I' m going to the extremes that you
would have me all the services.Most likely, I would have resented myself
and I wouldn' t have goneback to the group, even if I

(55:23):
was going to make it worse foryou. I say even that from here
I went directly from where I camefrom the hotel, to follow her crazy
about this situation and I made himsee it, and I made him look
like this And that' s aminimum, minimum or I wouldn' t
have returned to my group anymore.I mean, that' s logically a
very bad thing, because I've lived it. Religion didn' t

(55:46):
work for me. I didn't use the annexes. They didn'
t do me any good, itdidn' t do me any good.
Not the psychologists, not the psychiatrists, not the therapists. They didn'
t do me any good. Me. What did serve me was anonymous alcoholics.
I had never been able to staysober for two years and I looked
at it as a betrayal that wasdone to me, that is because a

(56:08):
person who is so old and alreadythe knowledge of what the program really is
at twenty- two years old,the program, because it doesn' t
do that and it has to beemphasized that it was only those two people.
Everyone else gave me their love andtheir affection, their support and their
understanding and their love notice that Ialso had another great opportunity to feel how

(56:32):
many people want me to be watchingManuel, that Manuel was eating, that
he was sleeping, that he wasattending their meetings an exaggerated way the day
I called you, that I sentyou the message was a storm of emotions

(56:54):
that but grateful to how many peoplewere there for me, how many people
wanted to see me again standing Impressively, for me it was awesome. How
many people, some of them toldme because I gave him. Thank you

(57:20):
very much, true, because especiallythat person who was on the lookout,
who left his job to open upto my house to have to eat,
not once but several times, whowas on the lookout, what you'
re doing, how you' redoing. You want to talk, because
I needed to talk and talk andtalk and feel all that love he told

(57:43):
me is that all this what I' m doing for you. You tell
me you already did it for me. What I was doing for you,
you already did for me. WhenI arrived, you were the first.
You were the one who shamed thebooks. You were the one who stayed
out of the group for me.You were, I mean, starting to
feel like I was getting back,this thing that I didn' t know

(58:04):
I had given me filled me withillusion. My rain of hope I said
this is where I have to be. Whatever happens. I have to be
here. No matter what happens.If I have to go through another relapse,
it doesn' t matter, becauseit has to be made clear that

(58:25):
the relapse, the carracada, isa failure. But the relapse does not
forgive. Failure is necessary to obtainhumility. I saw that a short time
ago in a reflection. What youjust shared related to the people who came
to You aligns much more with theidea and the impression that I have of

(58:49):
anonymous alcoholics and the people who goto their groups is. No doubt I
' m not disappointed. In fact, I am glad to have heard that
there were people who approached Ti Manuel. In fact, I' m going
to read the messages you sent,which, in fact, I' m
honored that Hayas also sent to me, but you said the following Hello.

(59:14):
I want to thank everyone who tookthe time to talk to me about the
process I' m going through.I feel so much better. I understand
that everything was necessary, everything thathappened makes sense and so it had to
happen. Thank you, God forthis great life lesson. I feel super

(59:34):
blessed by everything good and bad thathappened, or good that I went through.
So it had to be to realizethat so this was the right way
for me to grow many bases.Many times God works in mysterious ways that
I do not understand. This lifelesson is a clear example that he has

(59:55):
always been with me. You're sharing Manuel at the beginning of last
month, in February, it's an experience that taught you something painful,
very painful. Why my father toldme the growth hurts and if there

(01:00:17):
is no pain, there is nogrowth. We have to learn from everything.
And it is said very well,it is said very easy when we
are experiencing that pain, but whenwe are going through it, Manuel,
it is very difficult sometimes to understandah bastard, because I have to go
through this what I am really gettingout of this. But when you get

(01:00:39):
a chance to get through it,you realize it can be a good thing.
That' s the best thing aboutgiving her a positive face, like
you did, like you' resaying. Thank you, God, for
this life lesson. Thank you forsome reason, maybe we don' t
understand. At first we don't know why or think we shouldn'

(01:01:01):
t be thanking, but once wehave the twenty orally we say we have
to be humble and say thank you. I understand thanks for having also given
you the opportunity to survive this experience, because not everyone can survive it at
times when above all you have beensober for a long time, then I

(01:01:22):
think we are to be grateful evenfor those difficult things that come through Manuel,
of course, notice that that youjust said. It' s something
that many people let me know.They let him know he says thank God
you' re here and that wayso soon. I didn' t realize
that I didn' t realize it. They let me know that you could

(01:01:44):
come back, because many don't. And that, then, helps
me. It helps me move onand above all in a different way.
Look to me, humility something difficult, it' s something I' m
not given, it' s somethingI have to strive for to be humble.

(01:02:09):
I' ve tried to make changesin myself now I' ve really
tried to let people be whatever itis, whatever it is. I have
to accept it, just like Ididn' t try to change it at

(01:02:31):
all to know that I' mone more of the ball of the community
of anonymous alcoholics. I' mone more, I' m neither the
best nor the worst. I'm just one more is that the only
way I can help myself is tohelp is the only way to help others.

(01:02:52):
Manuel, to understand then very similarto what I regularly do. At
the end of the conversation of thosepeople who participate. For the first time
I have added a question which Iam asking. What would you say,
what would you go to yourself ifyou had, if you could go back

(01:03:13):
to the past, what would youtell yourself about the things you know today
in the present. But let's do the exercise with you, not
necessarily during the time you were consuming, but the days before, the weeks
before, now that you have gonethrough all this, Manuel, what would
you say to You if you couldreturn time about six months ago, what

(01:03:36):
advice you would make yourself or whatrecommendation or words you would say to You,
same alertness twenty- four seven,Be alert to what I am thinking,
what I am doing and what Iam saying, doing, saying and
thinking, Be alert completely because,yes, we return to the same thing

(01:03:59):
a relapse. You have to understandthe fallen straight. It' s not
the moment you grab the substance andconsume it. The relapse usually comes from
before and know that you have tobe alert to detect that there is probably
a relapse that you are already tending. Your bed for relapse. Don'

(01:04:24):
t trust. Never trust him.Never trust that I can, that I
am better than others and that notalways, especially in your life, the
person you chose as godfather or thefather or the person you chose to be
your guide, because he listens tohim, he listens to him, because

(01:04:49):
what happened to me was disobedience.I disobeyed my best man, because I
was already there. The focus hadbeen learned, the red alert had been
learned, and I didn' tdo it to avoid putting myself in the

(01:05:10):
situation I put myself in. Imean, you always have to be alert
to yourself. What' s goingon, what I' m thinking,
what I' m doing, whatI' m saying. That is why
it is so important to take thoseminutes of prayer and meditation. It'
s so important that we do itand I stopped doing it already before I
had to ask you the final,final question, which is again what Council

(01:05:36):
you would give to someone, becausethat thing you told us you would tell
yourself, I' m going totake it is as if you told me.
But I also want that moment totell me those who are still starting
or starting or thinking whether or notthey are in need of doing so.
I want to hear from you againManuel what advice you would give to that

(01:05:58):
person who is completely new, whois completely new to the process of rehabilitation
or recovery through anonymous alcoholics. Butbefore I get to that question, I
want to mention to you that peoplewho live with us are part of it,
if you live with someone. Obviouslythey are a fundamental part of staying

(01:06:21):
firm or even sometimes falling, butthey also become that immediate support, because
they are the first ones you haveat hand. At least face- to
- face, then let me askyou without going into much depth, without

(01:06:43):
going into much personal detail. Iasked you in the previous interview how your
husband was if he believed you atthe time that you were already in recovery.
You said in the previous episode,because I asked you almost every day
until after that I already believed youand stopped asking you how that situation is
right now. Manuel Ok, whata point you' ve just touched notice

(01:07:06):
he' s scared. He's scared, he' s keeping an
eye on me. He had thatdistrust again. He started to sculpt my
stuff again, to be on thelookout, to look me in the eye,
because I was crazy. I cansee my eyes. She' s

(01:07:30):
alert. She' s alert.He' s locked himself in his room
at night with things he didn't do anymore. He' s asking
me questions like the same question thatbothers me so much that he tells me
when it was the last time youused and said the same thing to him

(01:07:50):
again, the same thing that timeI told you, that time I told
you, and angry, angry becausehe' s asking me the same question.
But without understanding you, I'm the one to blame. How
many times I' ve lied tohim, how many times I' ve
promised him, and I haven't fulfilled him. I mean, it
' s a process that won't happen overnight. It' s a

(01:08:14):
process that has to be like this. I hope, and I can in
time also find that peace, becauseit is not worth being living that way
either. No. I wish,you can recommend Manuel, from the previous
episode that I published of the moviebeaty or Boy if he could see it,

(01:08:38):
because it is precisely it, althoughit speaks of addiction and above all
of addiction, as in fact thecharacter of that film, the problem you
have with methamphetamine, even if itgets into all the methamphetamine, which,
in fact, does not stop itfrom being that he has also promised his
parents and loved ones that he willnot do it and falls back and continues

(01:08:59):
to fall. There' s thatmovie from Dad' s point of view
Seventy percent, as I said,is mainly what the family goes through and
thirty percent what the dictate person goesthrough is not necessarily focused on chasing the
day- to- day addicts.If then it helps more people who cannot
see or not maybe, they cannotunderstand how it is that, why or

(01:09:21):
why the addict does it or fallsso many times I do not wish I
could also serve him and all thepeople who listen to us to find peace.
Let me ask you then, Manuel, already coming a little bit longer
than the time, let me askyou the question now to get out,

(01:09:44):
but without letting go of the opportunityto tell us anything else that has happened
to us today or that may nothave been much of the questions, but
that you want to share with someoneelse anything you need to get out of
today, either for yourself, forme, for that person who is listening
to us right now, who needsto know what he has to do,

(01:10:08):
that you also need to know thatthere is an opportunity, after this bad
experience, that there is light atthe end of the tunnel. What else
could you tell him if there's something manuel to that person who'
s in the dark right now?I' m gonna tell you why I
' m going through right now.This is over a month old. When

(01:10:30):
I sent you, I started contactingyou. I already had a few days
that I had stopped to this day, more than a month. I think
it' s a month, aweek I stopped your wine from relapse and
stopped until today. I keep stoppingthe consequences. The consequences are being too
expensive, especially depression. Depression hasnot yet left me to make my life

(01:10:57):
as usual. Something I don't feel like going to work. I
haven' t actually worked the trustagain with my husband and my mom.
That too I haven' t toldyou to my mom doesn' t know
about this yet that of course I' m going to tell her, but

(01:11:18):
I think I' m going towait to find the right time, because
I know the concern and anguish thatthis news is going to cause her.
Then I want to tell you whenI' m much more stable in every
respect. For me, my momis the number one pillar of my life
and I know I' m goingto make her suffer. But I have

(01:11:41):
to be honest. I have tobe honest and for me it is difficult,
especially with her, to cause thisanguish because I know how my mom
will feel and she will want tocome because she is not well, because

(01:12:02):
she fell and it has not beenwell. Then it' s gonna be
hard. I still don' thave the courage to tell you. And
so that all those people who havethe problem of alcoholism or addiction to any
substance. No more telling them thatwhile there is life, there is hope,

(01:12:24):
that there is a solution, Yesthere is a solution to keep the
obvious. And in my case,he was anonymous alcoholics. But anonymous alcoholics.
Also in literature he tells us thatanonymous alcoholics are not a whole,
because there are many other things.Psychiatrists n at 24 hours, because there

(01:12:46):
are many currents, the church,anything can help us, it can help
us. The problem, the bigproblem is I really want it, I
' m really willing to do whatI have to do to stay sober.
And that' s where the brownone you do the tail because many times
then no, no, no,because how am I going to leave my

(01:13:09):
drug? I mean, yeah,I want to stay sober, but by
drugging or stepping on anything. Thenthere is a solution for everyone. While
there is life, there is hopeand, above all, because there is
God, God see that in literaturehe looks everywhere. I very much like
the literature of anonymous alcoholics, saysonly God can free me from that terrible,

(01:13:33):
desperate obsession. And how interesting isit that only God says? Because
it doesn' t say anonymous alcoholics, it doesn' t say anonymous narcotics,
it doesn' t say anything elsethat only God says. Interesting,
thank you very much. Manuel Isaid it at the beginning of the episode.

(01:13:54):
It takes a lot of courage initself to come to talk, to
live in sobriety, to encourage youto take that first step, to finally
ask for help and that now youare learning from it is still needed.
I believe more courage to come andsay you know what I went down,

(01:14:16):
but here I am I' mdown, but I' m still not
here and they started my account againhow that bordeaux what made you feel when
you said hijole was already seven hundredand so many days. Now we start
day one something and it' shard. You know what the twenty fell

(01:14:39):
on me when I was in mygroup with one of my godson, with
one of the people I' ma sponcer of, we were going to
talk and I don' t knowit' s him and another I know,
who has a lot of stems andI' m talking and suddenly they
' re going to Meterle I sayhow weird, truth that now my daughter

(01:15:00):
has more clean time than me.You' re right, you' re
right, it' s clear that. But that is the case. This
is how they felt, Manuel totheir godfather, having to start thinking I
think that if it affected them alittle, because, as I say,

(01:15:30):
they are just like me. Imean, we put on expectations of people
many times, because I too amwith my best man, my father.
It' s an example to meyou understand We idealize people, we idealize.
That' s the word. Thenwe idealize this yes, yes,

(01:15:56):
note something there, but really,because they come to complete, because we
have to understand, because they havelittle time. It' s life stuff
I got from the group I joinedat the time. Virtually. This gentleman
was more than twenty years old andhe counted later, he also boldly narrated
what happened. He ended up inthe hospital, even but with his despair,

(01:16:21):
with all the reason why. Butno one is exempt from it.
And I think it' s themessage that we talked about before preparing today
' s episode, Manuel. Partof the message is that no one is
exempt and that no one should bejudged who has to go through such a
situation at the time, whether itis a day, a week, a
month, a year, whatever.We' re all human beings, obviously,

(01:16:45):
and we' re all susceptible tohaving to start that account again and
we don' t have to judgethat person. We must applaud that person
who has risen up and continues,despite that stumbling block, still wanting to
walk and want to move forward.So today I applaud you, Manuel,
for that strength that you have shownand for that desire to continue, to

(01:17:09):
move forward. So, now yes, to conclude, I tell you what
you would look like then already inthe future. I asked you last year,
how you look now, after thisnew beginning, fighting, fighting,
fighting against myself, against my emotions, against my desires, fighting like this.

(01:17:31):
I see myself, so be it, then I hope you can win
in that fight. Manuel, thankyou so much for being with me today.
Thank you very much. I saywell, then, thank you very
much for having stayed to listen totoday' s episode and, as always,
again, thank you very much tothe person who has participated in this

(01:17:55):
case. Manuel, the truth isnot easy. It was not easy to
start and, above all, tolisten to Manuel also saying that he must
be paying the consequences of that relapse, of that slip, of that new
beginning. So, that trip.Obviously, then, if you, at
the time, still have the possibilityof being able to overcome some situation that

(01:18:19):
is being presented to you right now, think about it, think about it,
extend that moment, if you canor completely eliminate it from your life.
But if at some point it's inevitable for you, as it
was at the time for Manuel,then tell you that you know that nothing
happens. Hopefully, you too canget out of the best way and you

(01:18:40):
can start and continue again in casethat path to recovery. Okay. I
want to remind you then that youcan contact me via email. Gregory arroba
a addiction, com that you alsofind me on YouTube page YouTube diagonal addiction.
There you will find exclusive content andalso live broadcasts, so I suggest

(01:19:04):
you subscribe and activate notifications so thatyou can be at that time when I
connect live and also receive information thatwill be published exclusively. You can now
find videos exclusively with information for YouTube. So, please, if you'

(01:19:27):
re in a position and you haven' t subscribed to it. I remember
then you can subscribe good. Rememberthat people who love you remember that there
are people who want to see youget over your addiction. Don' t
turn your back on them, talkto them head- on and ask them
for help. You' d besurprised to see how many people like Manuel
were ready to shake hands at thattime of difficulty. If you have a

(01:19:50):
chance to help someone, if youcan be that friendly hand, that man
to cry those ears to whom tolisten to the people who need it.
Please give yourself a chance to doso, because you don' t know
when you can change someone' slife just by showing a positive attitude to

(01:20:12):
the situation being presented to them.Well, my name is a gregor and
girls. Here we hear in thenext episode dadis addiction towards the next