Ep 4.13 - Max Wynn - AfterGate

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The following podcast is being brought toyou by the Defile Life podcast Network.
Welcome to Aftergate, Powered by theDefile Life Network. Are you all Ready?
Aftergate? Is a podcast series highlightingColgate alumni of color in their professional

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endeavors. Aftergate Are you all Ready? Aftergate? Is hosted by Alvin glymp
aka al and Herman Dubois aka AJerry? Are you all ready? We
are doing Aftergate because Colgate University hasproduced innovators who have changed the world every
day, Yet many alumni of colorand the mainstream Colgate community are unaware of

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the amazing accomplishments of alums of color. Are you all ready? Welcome?
Welcome, Welcome, We are herefor another episode of after Gate? What
is going on? All my people's? This is your boy Alvin Klemf and

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I am the co host of thisweekly podcast where we are dedicated to documenting
the journeys of Coviate University's alumni colorand it has been an awesome, awesome,
awesome experience. Looking forward to continuingas we are creeping up on ninety

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episodes, so looking forward to hittingthat benchmark. And I feel like when
we get to a to that centurymark, man, we're gonna have to
do some real, real special whenwe when we get to a huntred,
but that's for a future episode.We'll get to coming. It's coming.
We'll get to that when we getto that. Before we get to that,
though, let me interduce my cohost, mister Hedmand Dubois. What's

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going on, my brother Jerry?How you doing? Bro? All as
well? Man, all as well, looking forward to connecting with you and
sister GLNF. I understand in thehorizon you got some some visitation rights to
come on down to the state.So looking forward to that, and uh,
you know, otherwise all as well. Can't complain. Yeah, same

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here. You know. Coincidentally,our guest I was actually hanging out with
somebody that he was connected with duringhis Kodate tenures. So how coincidental my
day has been. But I spentthe evening having a cocktail and a cigar,

(02:36):
I think my sixth cigar that I'veever smoke in my life with a
very good Kogate alum brother Andrell Tyson, And so as I was wrapping it
up with him, I'm just like, dude, I got to get home
because I'm talking with you. Oneof your homies tonight or after gave So
you know just how my day hasworked. It's been an amazing day,

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and so we're gonna keep it keeprocking because just just been a good,
good, good day. Man.So that sounds like some alignment, That
sounds like something it was supposed tobe this way, right. We gotta
take them when we get it,because you know when when when it's a
line, it's a beautiful thing.When it's not aligned, man, it's
a whole nother story exactly, tryingto keep it alivee, trying to keep

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it alone. So with that beingsaid, is all right with you?
Can I get you a blessing tobring this this week's guests into the Aftergate
studio usual the Congregation of the ColgateChapel a k a. After Gate People's

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the church said Amen, Yes,brother, bring the spirit in the room.
So after Gate listeners, AOC fam, it is my honor we are
blessed to have in the studio tonightthe one the only good brother, Max
Win, last of two thousand andthree. What's going on? Max?

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Welcome to Aftergate? Oh man,that's awesome. Awesome intro, Man,

(04:28):
awesome intro. I don't get thatvery often, so hey, I take
it, I'll take it. Yeahyeah, and trailer and I yeah,
man, that's that's one of mybros. We of course played ball together,
as you know, and fellow fellowat aliens, yes, sir,
natives of Atlanta. Uh so yeah, man, we go way back.
Got great, great bonds from Colgate. Love to hear it, love to

(04:51):
hear it. He had a lotof good things to say about you when
I mentioned you was a guest tonight. Let's let's go, let's let's in
our chie addition, we love thestart off in terms of what's the context
of how do we know the guest? Right? So class of three,
we were not on campus together.But the fact that you are from Atlanta,

(05:15):
I know we have cross passed reallyreally early on in your tenure.
I can't remember if it was asa student as an alum, but I
know I've known you for quite aquite a few years from being both of
us being here in Atlanta the sametime. So most definitely it's it's I
know we've crossed paths at alumni events, you know, and we you know,

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especially with a lot of people fromAtlanta going to Colgate around the time
that I went, Uh, theyhad well, you know, I played
football at Colgate and they recruited Atlantavery heavily. So a lot of the
alum that I've connected with you throughhave played football with me at Colgate.

(05:59):
So that's that's definitely a connection.I can't and again, I can't remember
if I were if I was astudent the first time we cross pass.
I'm pretty sure we did. Ijust can't. I can't quite put my
finger on on what event it mighthave been. Yeah, I guess we
definitely know each other for quite sometime before you because I don't know how

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many Atlanta students attended Kogate kind ofbefore you set this run, because it's
like you kind of open the floodgates. But I know, kind of in
that era as y'all are coming up, I'm kind of I'm working with admissions.
I'm kind of recruiting because I'm workingin high school, so I'm kind

(06:40):
of definitely repping the Kolgate brands.So I don't know. Just the point
is, I'm glad to see somany students, particularly students of color,
come out of at L and goup to Kogate because it is a long
way away. So glad to seethat has happened, because you are again

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there's a whole lot of other brothersdown here that also went to Kobate from
at M. So great to see. Yeah. Absolutely, you you you're
gonna prompt you know this, thisis making me really uh, you know,
want to follow up with Kogate andparticularly admissions and get some data around

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the pipeline of students, not onlyregionally. I mean, we can have
the Atlanta's cohorts, the West Coastcohorts, but then uh break that down
further to schools because I'm sure youknow, when you think about Atlanta,
it's the metro Atlanta. It's notjust you know, in the city of
Atlanta per se. Uh. Butyou know, I'm still I'm still boasting

(07:46):
that, you know, a philRandom High School in Hall of New York
City still has the record for mostgrads that have gone to Kogate and so
but you know, I hear allabout these these Atlanta folks. You know,
I'm curious to see it is thereare pipeline of a particular school or
is it just the collective you knowaps the camb County Schools, which is

(08:07):
still you know, yeah, collective. It's a collective for sure. Yeah,
yeah, I know for a fact, football you know, in Georgia
per capita, we you know,we have some of the best high school
football. And Colgate set set thetrend in the Patriot League during the you
know, late nineties and early twothousands, mid two thousands here of recruiting

(08:31):
in the Atlanta area. So uh, and it was the metro area because
it was no one like I think, you know, in my four years,
there was myself and Jeremy guy namedJeremy Ballard who was in the inner
city Atlanta, Will Arnold again hewas he was another guy. It was
like three of us will play footballwith me. Uh. Jeremy Ballard played

(08:54):
basketball. He's actually a head coachnow at FIU, so he you know,
he kind of took his basketball careerand went into coaching. Uh.
And then and like the other people, uh, running Millon, Running Milling,
I can't forget running. He wenta great year. That's side of
the product of a p S.And then we had a lot of people

(09:16):
in the metro area just kind ofsprinkled about, sprinkling around and from Decatur,
maybe Riverdale and some other places.So but yeah, and then after
I graduated. I know we havesome other APS representatives as well, and
I don't want to do them.I don't want to forget names, but
I definitely know we had we hadsome people coming out of the city of

(09:37):
Atlanta. I definitely I met theBallot brother at reunion last year. Okay,
now that you're telling his story aboutbeing the basketball player and the coach
at f I U. He hasa sister also who attended KOVID if I
remember, that's correct, that's correct, Megan Megan, Yep, yep,
yep, that's right. She wasa hoop. I think she holds a

(10:00):
few records up there. They needto put her in the Hall of Fame
to be honest. But that's astory for another day. Okay, So
the story for today, though,let's talk about Max. So you graduate
high school in ninety nine, right, that's correct. So what do you
remember about that time? Like,what's your life like? What do you

(10:22):
remember about any of the current eventsthat are going on? Just give us
a context of what life the worldis like before you get into Colgate.
For you, So, I grewup inner City Atlanta and just playing sports
for the most part throughout my childhoodand that that opened the door of me

(10:45):
being a good student and being successfulin sports kind of opened the door for
me to just pursue collegiate football.My family I have on my mom's side,
the males of my family are militaryguys, like my uncle's in the
Air Force. I got an olderbrother who went through the army. You

(11:05):
know. My my household, youknow, was more catered to to the
workforce. Going on to college,I meet you know, my mom and
dad, they went to West Georgia. They did not finish college. I'm
actually a first generation graduate, uhyou know for my immediate family. And
uh so football was was very wasvery big in my life at the time.

(11:30):
I was getting recruited by uh jeez, well, I'll say my offers.
My offers coming out of college,I mean coming out of high school
was Tennessee State, Eastern Kentucky,Central, Michigan, Colgate. Those were
like the main four you know thatthat had a solid offer. So,

(11:50):
I you know, I was goingon college visits. Uh. Personal life,
Uh, around that time, myparents had separate. Well we're going
through a separation like my freshman yearand I'll rewind, you know, because
we hadn't really got into actual collegeexperience, but my parents separated my freshman

(12:13):
year, so at that point,you know, senior year, it was
a bit rough and immediate household justthings not going too well on that end.
And uh but but I think sportskept me, kept me focused,
kept me going through school still.You know, school was my safe having

(12:35):
right sports you know, sports keptme, uh kept me uh uh,
it kind of removed me from mymy my household situation. It wasn't like
terrible, but you know, withwhat my parents were going through, and
so I in my mind, Ineeded to get away from home. You

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know, I was looking to goout of state the school and so yeah,
that's that's why a lot of Ithink that and uh, what Kovie
had to offer athletically, yeah,eventually led me to commit to them to
play football. So there, canyou share share a little Can you share

(13:16):
a little bit about the just yourhigh school for those folks who you know
don't know what what you know?Greater Atlanta Metro Atlanta is like a specifically
their school, the culture, demographics, how you as a student besides football,
obviously you was a standout, butgive us a little bit more of
a well rounded scope of your world. Yeah, uh growing I grew up

(13:39):
in going to Atlanta public schools anduh so inner city Atlanta, southwest Atlanta.
We used to refer to it asthe Swats zone. Zone three is
another one, you know, likein the hip hop era. We have
our neighborhoods in Atlanta and it's bythe police district. And I grew up

(14:01):
in Zone three, which is whichis uh just south southwest Atlanta some parts
of southeast like the Doug Maze.My so, my zone school would have
would have been Washington High School,which is like in that West End area,

(14:22):
right. I grew up in thecommunity Sylvan Hills right around like Purposing
Park. It's just southwest End,So that's where I grew up. I
ended up going to my ninth gradeyear. I went to Douglas High School
West Side. So Atlanta public schoolshad magnet programs. And because of me

(14:46):
knowing so many people and kind ofjust you know, going through my going
through public schools and going into mydistrict schools, my parents wanted me to
venture out a little bit. Uh. They didn't want us going to our
zone school for high school. Withmy brother and I we we both My
brother led the way. He wentto Douglas High School and we were in
the Magnet program and that's how wegot into that school because it wasn't in

(15:09):
our zone and because because of athletics, I ended up going over to Tri
Cities. Tri Cities is famous forit's in East Point, which is right
outside of Atlanta. I lived righton the border, or we grew up
right on the border of Atlanta andEast Point, so Tri Cities was actually
the closest school to my house.However, it was in East Point,

(15:31):
so we were out of district.But you know, we finessed our way
in and and and the rest ishistory. But you know, me as
a student, I mean I was, you know, I was by me
being in the new school, transferringin as a sophomore. I didn't know
many people at Tri City, soI was real, like reserve. I'm

(15:56):
kind of on the shy side already, especially back then, So I was
a real reserve student. Man,keut my head down, did my work,
you know, worked hard at whateverit is. I was just you
know, geared to do my bestat whatever I set myself to doing.
So, I mean, you youwouldn't be the teacher that had a bad
thing to say about me. Youknow, I ended up being voted as

(16:22):
uh mister tri Cities, which isyou know, like one of those popularity
it goes to the more popular studentthere. So by the time I got
to my senior year, my classmatesstopped very highly of me. You know,
I had a lot of friends.Sports helped me out, especially,
you know, just making friends andyou know that in those adolescent years you're

(16:47):
trying to find your laying and whereyou belong, and that helped ease that
process for me, just being involvedin different activities and stuff and helped ease
that that transition to going through fornew school not knowing anyone. I think
I had like maybe one friend toothat I knew going into try Cities at
the time. So it was itwas. It was. It was a

(17:12):
it wasn't a rough transition. Ithink I fit in pretty well, but
definitely definitely a uh, it wasit was. It was. It was
a awkward time. You know,I had I had a strong set of
friends from my neighborhood, but wedidn't all go to the same high school,
which I think helped me out inthe long run. And as far

(17:33):
as I get my work done andthen just progressing onto my next step.
So so being from at L andalso being around in that era, I
gotta ask you, because the documentarycame out about Freaknick, I'm just kind
of curious, what do you rememberabout that fun party we call freak Nick.

(17:59):
Let me lie too before I getinto that. A lot of people
know Tri Cities because a lot wehave a lot of celebrities that's going through
and graduated outcasts like Andre three Stacksand Big Boy where students at Tricities.
U Andre dropped out, but theyyou know, those are notable people from

(18:19):
there. Keenan, Keenan from Keenanand Kale went to Tri Cities. I
mean, the list goes on andon. I probably could do a Google
search and look at some of thecelebrities man that came out of there.
But uh, but going back tothe Freaknick question, Man, so me
growing up in Southwest Atlanta. FreeNick was right in the backyard, man,

(18:45):
I was right off of my neighborhoodset right off of Stuart Avenue,
which is Metropolitan Parkway right now,nikkis exactly right. So Atlanta for a
minute, First of all, thefact that I even recognized Stuart, which
is down to Metropolitan, right,And I live in Atlanta for five years,

(19:07):
but I've been removed for twenty andstill remember. And so there you
go. That's right. So myneighborhood, man, you all remember the
running shoot, Yeah, the spot. Yeah, So my neighborhood sat right
behind the run and shoot. Andlike I said, freak Nick was just
like it was like a huge blockparty. That's the best way to describe

(19:30):
it. Throughout the whole city.Throughout the whole city. I mean,
traffic used to be gridlocked, andI was way too young to even be
caught up in it. But becausewe could walk down to the plaza right
by Stuart Avenue, I just remembered. I mean it had to have been
like ninety fives. I'm in middleschool, man, and you know,
we would walk down the street togo to the convenience store, get candy

(19:53):
pop whatever, you know, soda, go to the McDonald's get something.
But I just remember that being aread lock of traffic on Stuart Avenue and
we had no clue what was goingon. People had to drop tops and
the candy paint big red, youknow, the loud music, the girls
dancing, So my eyes popping out. Man, I'm like probably seventh eighth

(20:15):
grade and yeah, man, experiencingsome of that. I definitely, you
know, my cousin, my cousin, and I my cousin grew up in
fourth Ward and which was right offof Boulevard, and that's when my grandma
and uh my cousin and aunts andstuff they were. My dad is from

(20:37):
fourth Ward two. But but Iwould go over there as I got older,
like in my high school years,and you know, just kind of
go out and people watching. Man. We we we had we had some
pictures, man. I think itgot caught up in the house by my
aunts. Man. But if wehad social media, bro, Yeah,

(20:57):
we had social media. We asa team baby face out there taking pictures
with girls and stuff. In collegeit was crazy, but so the freaking
yeah, man, I got inand it mixed and mingle couldn't get into
any spots, of course, butbut I was definitely out in the streets
for sure. So how did youhear about koge? It was the first

(21:22):
Was it that letter that recruitment effortor was it a former student that was
like you should check out Kvie No, definitely a letter. Uh you know,
stemmed from football. And uh,I had no clue what the school
was. You know, you hearjokes about the toothpaste school. I got.

(21:42):
I got all of that when Icommitted, and you know, by
me being in the southeast, itwas not a popular, well known school.
So I had to learn about theprestige of it just through the recruitment
process. And uh ed Pinkham,who who was the defensive coordinator at the
time, He was, you know, the guy that came down to visit

(22:04):
and and I and I built arelationship with him, and he was really
responsible for recruiting a lot of theguys out of Atlanta that you know,
I name my name dropped earlier inour conversation, but that really, you
know, put me on and byhim just being consistent with being you know,
in Atlanta and calling and communicating withme, kogin staying on the radar,

(22:26):
you know. But I had noclue about the school. Okay,
did you like visit like, what'syour how do you learn more about kind
of is this the rate school foryou? The prequel? Yeah? So
so with that, with the recruitingprocess, you know, we we have

(22:47):
people you know, like coaches visitingthe school. Uh, you know,
so he pulled me out of class, we'll have sit down. He was
one of the first coaches to comeand do a house visit, right,
So my mom always tells story tome. She had no clue what GPS
was back then. You know,we're in the nineties, and you know,
he had scheduled a home visit tojust you know, the coaches would

(23:08):
come sit down in your living roomand just kind of do their sales pitch
for the school. And she rememberlike, hey, you know, she
was trying to give him directions toget to the house, and he was
like, I just plugging at myGPS. He had my address and he
could just plug it. She waslike, I had no clue how he
was able to get to the house. She's used to tell him. You
know, back then, you proNTout mack quest directions, you tell people

(23:32):
landmarks, you know, go tothe KFC and you hangle left and so
you know, that was one ofthe one of the stories she always tells.
But he he came, he dida home visit with us, had
his whole you know, had hiswhole presentation and sales pitch for the school
left for us a bunch of pamphlets, and I just remember my mom being

(23:53):
so hesitant about Colgate in general becauseshe's just associating it with New York City.
Granted, like to campus, wedidn't know where Hamilton was. Uh
so we just yeah, she heardNew York. She's like, nah,
I ain't sending my baby up tothe city. So so it was like
a hard note for he had toreally sell her on it, and uh,

(24:15):
you know, just kind of showeda region where it was located,
and you know, it was asmall college town. Man, he's gonna
be remote, He's gonna be awayfrom all of the all of the distractions
in the city, you know.So that was a big That was a
big part of it, A bigpart of conversation, just kind of easing
that tension with mom and sending herbaby up to New York City like the

(24:36):
concrete jungle, right, she thoughtI was gonna be you know, I
was, I was gonna be onthe subway, you know. So yeah,
man, it was uh but thatthat was that was my introduction to
it, and and and and sowith the information he left behind, we
just kind of did our own researchand dug into it and and learned a

(24:56):
lot more about it, and andand and so that that kind of at
the ball rolling. Okay, soshout out the pink. Yeah, so
you mentioned earlier in our conversation youhad a couple of pretty good options outside
of Kogate. You know, whenwhen you wait all the pros and the
cons, you know, was theresomething in particular that clinsed it for you

(25:17):
or or for many of us itwas a default mechanism. It was like
okay, uh some money, nomoney, some money, a lot of
money, and all money. Youknow, just what was it for you?
Uh? At the end, youknow, it came it came down
to combination of academics and sports.They were you know one Double A or

(25:38):
what they would call FCS division,So it was like the subdivision of Division
one for our athletics. That playeda huge part because I was, you
know, big on football and that'swhat they were recruiting me for. But
I'll say this, you know,having a chance to go around and visit
different schools, you know, thatwhole college town, and it was a

(26:00):
small school where I felt like theyreally, you know, I really they
really got to know me. Andand I had a connection with the guys
on the team. My host thatweekend you probably know of him, but
a mod Russell. Mod Russell wasmy my host that that weekend when I
visited, showed me a good timeand and and so like I just it

(26:23):
felt like a real good family atmosphere. And of course, you know,
they they pair me up with peoplethat look like me, and so I
got a false sense of of howmany you know, African Americans were on
campus at the time. They getus all like that, absolutely absolute.
Yeah, they're very intentional, youknow when when they bring recruits and stuff

(26:45):
on campus, man, and youknow, with which they should. So
they did a good job of sellingthe school and and all that it offered
academic life after Colgate. You know, I got a chance to go on
my visit. It was in thewinter time because that's when a lot of
recruiting visits happened for football, andI hadn't seen snow like that ever,

(27:08):
So that stood out to me.You know, it left a mark on
me, But I had no clueI'd be practicing and playing in that kind
of weather. You know, itjust wasn't done. It wasn't it hadn't
quite set in, but the wholelike he thought it was just that weekend,
right, I'm just all I'm inawe about hey man, this winter

(27:32):
wonderland out of snow, like itlooked cool. But yeah, man,
not knowing winter was from October toApril. Yeah, so what was that?
I mean, that's that's a goodquestion coming out of the a where
you know, winters in Atlanta aretwo weeks, Like what what was that
trans specifically the weather transition? Likefor you, Manu, it was brutal

(27:56):
man first my freshman year, andso I left out a few things that
we can go back. And sorecruiting, recruiting wise, just kind of
says a little bit about my upbringing. I had never been on a plane
before before recruiting, and so likethat was my first time getting on a
plane. I had. So CentralMichigan was another school that recruited me as

(28:22):
well, so I had a chanceto go to their campus. That was
actually my first flight. Colgate wasmy second. The other two schools I
was able to drive up. No, I actually flew in the eastern Kentucky,
drove up to Tennessee State. Butthat just that whole recruiting process within
the months of December and January,I had hopped on the plane three times,
and yeah, man, it was. It was a cool experience because

(28:47):
we always would do road trips.If we went anywhere for vacation, we'd
go to drive down to Panama CityBeach, so that was like our go
to spot to get away from Atlanta, or if we go up to the
mountains and stuff, we always Joe. So that was pretty cool to hop
on a plane and you know,going and go and visit school. So
I was I was really caught upin a moment with that too. And

(29:08):
then repeat that question now, I'mjust wondering, coming from the South,
what was that transition in terms ofthe weather like, because when we were
there, you know, we therewere definitely some Southerners, not many,
but there was some Southerners who wewent to school with, and for some
of them, that was the firsttime they had ever seen snow and it

(29:29):
wasn't a comfortable experience. I'm justcurious, what was your respect experience it
was? It was a transition Ihad. I had moments where outside of
just you know, you're transitioning fromyour parents getting you up and out of
the house to go to school.Now you're doing it on your own.

(29:51):
My freshman year, I just remember, like when those snows started to pole
up and you look out the windowand it's like, man, if I
was back home, now, schooltold be canceled, right, I just
used to I used to always thinkabout, you know, in Atlanta,
Uh, anytime we had severe weather, freezing rain, sleeping, we wake

(30:11):
up in the morning. Back then, you used to have to wait for
your school district to pop up onthe bottom of the screen watching the news.
And it took me back to that, man, like, yeah,
I was back home, I'd bechilling. So I went through my phase
where I was like, man,I'm taking a snow day. I'm not
going to class to day. What'sthe snowy exactly right, I might as

(30:37):
well hang tight for the rest ofthe semester. It was to start,
it doesn't stop. But uh yeah, I had to quickly get out of
that molde man. I just rememberthat, you know, being a thought
of flying thought in my head myfreshman year, like, yeah, I'm
going to take a snowy day.I'm granted I probably was up going to
freaking weightlifting or something that morning,but let me go back a second,

(31:00):
because you talk about that full Wereyou part of the summer Olust program?
Yeah, yeah, so I didso. So you had a chance to
be at Kolgate during that summer whereit was beautiful on campus, where you
right up the picturesque environment, andthen you go back home in Atlanta and
then you come back in the falland it's smacksy okay, absolutely, and

(31:22):
you painted the picture perfect man.Because summers and Hamilton and we'll get to
this later, but you know,I actually worked for Coolgate, you know,
a couple of times to after graduating. I'll get to that a little
later. But summers and Hamilton arebeautiful upstate New York. You get some
nights where it's fifty sixty degrees,so you can, you know, you

(31:45):
can hang out and get your bonfiregoing, you know. So it's nice
in the summertime. It's it's moderate. Summers, it gets I remember it
getting hot, but it wasn't along live of hot like from back home,
you know, and then at nightit were definitely cool off. So

(32:05):
you're right, man, come incoming into o US and I mean that
was a good experience too. Likewhen you think about transitioning from high school.
Coming into a new environment. Ihad a leg up on on other
freshmen because I had built some friendshipsin o US. We took a couple
of classes prior to the fall semesterjust to kind of get us acquainted with

(32:30):
the expectations of college courses. Sothat was I mean, it was a
great experience. Now and you werepracticing football, right. I remember from
our old US we had a coupleof guys that were in old US,
but then every once in a whilewe wouldn't see them coming in with a
football program. Yeah, I wasactually going to get into that. So

(32:52):
they football sold it to me asas a way of getting you know,
a little extra money and also alsogetting a couple of credits before I actually,
you know, enter into my myfall semesters. I was like,
yeah, sign me up, let'sdo it. And yeah, you're right.
So we got in. You know, I got a chance to meet

(33:13):
which whatever players were staying for summer. One of the things that colget that
was unique because it wasn't really asummer school session. A lot of the
athletes would would go home, butfootball because we were preparing for the fall
season. We had a good numberof student athletes staying on campus, so
I was able to work out withthem, started to you know, get

(33:34):
in good with the coaches. Theycould see my work ethics. That that
gave me a leg up on otherfreshmen who were not gonna arrive until fall
camp. So yeah, I wasable to take advantage of that as well.
And then just you know, justmeeting just the general population of students
in o US. My roommate,my freshman roommate came out of o U

(33:57):
S, so you know those thoseuh for other freshmen entering campus and and
not being able to see who theirroommates are unless they had some one of
their friends from high school coming toco gate with them. I was able
to fill out people as I wasgoing through o U S and find a
person I vibe with and got myroommates. So yeah, that was it

(34:21):
was. It was a plus,a lot of pluses from who was your
director of o US at the time. Oh, man, it was a
Sarah Ishmael Oh wow, yeah,sah, yeah, I think it was
people. Yeah yeah, absolutely,yeah, so and I remember, let
me see who else? Man,Some of these names escape me, but

(34:45):
yeah, I think it was Sarah. Okay, but yeah, it was.
It was. It was a goodexperience experience I had. I had
Professor Wagner, he was in philosophy. Man, yeah, it was.
It was tough. Some of wehad Sandema as one of our professors.
I had had Wagner though, butyeah, man, it was a challenging

(35:07):
professor. I mean, it wasa good experience, but I mean it
was. It had me shaken upa bit going into college. I was
like, man, I'm not preparedfor this. My high school. My
high school didn't prepared me well.I was had a lot of doubts going
into my freshman year because you know, you look at Kolgate and it's a

(35:28):
lot, it's a crime, it'sthe krim Dela criminal students entering that university.
Man, and I I was.I was one of those bubble kids.
Honestly, even though I was prettygood academically gp a wise, I
was still looked at. And Ilearned this later as I was a coach.
I ended up coaching for Kogate,coaching football at Kogate. But I

(35:52):
learned this a little bit later on. You know, they have the different
tiers of students when they're recruiting,and I was, I wasn't think I
was on that bottom tier, butI was kind of close to the bottom
tier because of my SAT scores.So yeah, man, but I just
didn't. I remember feeling ill preparedfor college because a lot of the students

(36:12):
were using words and vocabulary I wasn'tfamiliar with, and I'm like, yo,
I can't, I can't keep up. But I just have I have
a. I have a I havegrit, right, So grit gets you
through a lot. So I justkept plugging away and before you know it,
you look up and and you're ableto you know, you feel like
you belong. So uh yeah,that was That was definitely, you know,

(36:37):
an experience for me. O USwas a great experience for me entering
my freshman year. Did you gointo Kogate knowing what you wanted to major
in or did you kind of havea unique experience in figuring out what the
major was or yeah, well soyes to that last part. I had

(36:58):
to figure it out. I hadno clue, you know, Uh I
was. I was a big sportsguy, so it was like, man,
I'm getting recruited to play ball,like again, like I always saw
myself uniform kind of guy, likehands on hands on manual labor type of
type of guy in the workforce.Sports really was was my was was my

(37:22):
end to college. You know,a lot of you know a lot of
the males of my family were military, so you know, I happened to
I happened to be good at school, and you know, I was doing
pretty well so and I played sports, so that really you know, first
I was first generation college graduate andyou know all that stuff. So yeah,

(37:45):
it was it was. It wasone of those things where I had
to figure it out. I didn'tI didn't have someone to model myself but
a lean on to get me throughthat college experience. So Liberal Arts college,
can you walk us through what's yourMA, was your major in and
how you ended up doing? Yeah? Uh, you know, Liberal arts
colleges are good for people who don'treally have it figured out because you get

(38:10):
a chance to explore different content areas. So, you know, your first
two years, you're just taking yourprerequisites and I'm filling out, you know,
I was. I was really strongin math. However, I knew
that I knew the time it takesto be good at math, and after
I kind of got into the sportsworld and all it took for for you

(38:34):
to be successful in whatever sports you'replaying. That kind of deterred me from
going to math route because I knew, you know, it's one of those
subjects where you got as repetitive,you know, or you got to get
repetitions and practice. You gotta practiceand get good at the different concepts.
I didn't feel like I had thetime to put into it, So that

(38:55):
scared me away from math. Andas I'm going through taking my Prorectors of
courses, I was exposed to someof the African American courses African American or
African Diaspora. I remember I tookH and so it kind of got me

(39:17):
into exploring my race a lot more. And then I found a new love
for history, where you know,like in high school history suck. We
would show up in class and youknow, your teacher would have page do

(39:37):
the section review at the end,or we might be taking notes the entire
class, and it was it wasjust a drag. So when I got
into reading about about my people andour people and and just the aspara and
just learning stuff that is not typicallyin the in the history books, I
kind of got attached to that andended up majoring in in history with a

(40:01):
focus in African American studies. Sothat was really, you know what what
got me into that major, andI didn't know what I was gonna do
with it, to be honest,I'm in education now, so it kind
of you know, I would saythat that kind of led me into the
education route, but I didn't knowwhat I was gonna do with that major

(40:22):
leaving Colgate to be honest. Wheredyou live while you were on campus freshman
year? I well, o us. They housed us in East Hall,
East and West. I think Iknow we were in East. I think
some people were in West as well. And from my knowledge, that's like

(40:44):
those are the original dorms at Colgatessomewhere. Yeah, yeah, of course,
I'm sure they renovated them, butuh yeah, those were not the
first or or yeah. Uh andthen the fall I ended up at it
was a newer dorm. Jeez,it's right behind the dining hall. Uh

(41:12):
former k D No, So itwas in that circle right below the dining
hall. Ah, goodness, EastWest not Cutting yeah, Bryan complex,
No, that was one of theolder ones. It was a newer dorm
and so it's right up the hillfrom from HRC, AH, but it's

(41:36):
not Drake and Drake, Yes,there it is, Okay, Yeah,
I was in Drake that is theformer former k E D was the old
what we called the freshman dorms thatwas had its own special reputation for freshmen
and then they condemned it and thenthey came up with the new buildings that

(41:58):
are there now. Yeah. Uhoh, okay, give me your little
history. Yeah, so I was. I was in Drake and Man so
a lot of a lot of thepeople from o US were in HRC.
And I think because I might havebeen dragging my feet, my roommate and
I think he wanted to get asingle and then we ended up getting,

(42:19):
uh decided the room together. Butthe I think the rooms in HRC had
run out and we ended up havingto go to Drake and I just remember
it was one of the It wasthe dorm with the community bathrooms. So
you have a couple of bathrooms,gender specific bathrooms on the floors, and
you know, so if you ifyou have you're having to take a shower

(42:43):
in the morning before class, afterpractice, you're walking down the hall with
your towel wrapped around your waist andall your toilet dries and so yeah,
that was that was the experience there. HRC. I liked because they had
the sweet The sweet arrange meant whereyou share a bathroom with the dorm next
your next door neighbor. It wasonly four people in the bathroom. I

(43:07):
mean the stuff that we used tosee in those community bathrooms. Man,
it was like terrible, especially afterSaturday night you might come in and bomb.
It was just right projects the projectsprojects. Yeah, I was.
I lived in k E D myfreshman year and so probably one of I

(43:31):
don't know, maybe five students ofcolor and a door buildings right that might
have had I don't know, maybeone hundred students. I can't remember how
many were there at the time.A lot more than that. Coming to
your point, we had the communitybathrooms that you know, felt like you
were showering at the y and youdidn't know what you would find any morning

(43:54):
or any night as you would gointo those restrooms. So I think the
rep at K E D was sobad. To be honest with you,
I honestly don't think I. Imight have stepped foot into K E D
two once or twice my entire andthat was definitely coming for out. Otherwise

(44:14):
I had no business in there.Yeah. Well the radio station. The
best thing about k D is atthe time r c U was in the
base base right right, that wasthe best part about the whole on that
was, Man, you bring abad memory. Yeah, so that was

(44:37):
still the you know, it's stillconsistent with when when I was there as
well. They had the radio stationthere in the basement. A couple of
my classmates had their own you knowshow, and uh, man, I
remember, I don't I don't thinkI participated. But my roommate was Caleb
Brianon and he is from d Cand and he had a radio show as

(45:02):
well. One of my other buddies. We were like family now, man,
we still all we all still communicateon a daily basis. Man,
But Tyrone Russell shout out to Tyrone. He had a show. Desmond Alexander,
he had a show. But JamesE. I'm going through all the

(45:23):
guys that I remember having shows.But they used to do like freestyle sessions.
Man, we go in and wego in and freestyle and stuff on
on the air. I don't knowif I build up enough confidence to do
it, but I definitely sat inon a few and uh, but yeah,
those were some good times. Sogood shout out to the class of

(45:46):
three because that group, I mean, we've mentioned this on Aftergate before because
we mentioned Ty's name. He's beena guest and so that's a close knit
group of brothers. But it's alot of y'all. Like I met y'all
during the reunion and I guess that'stwenty twenty three, and I'm like,

(46:07):
I'm the vibe. I'm just like, yoh, y'all close knit the way
we was close knit. But it'slike, yeah, I mean, I'm
saying it's a massive I'm like,y'all, it really is. So we
uh it's about it's thirteen of us, one one, uh thirteen of course.

(46:31):
Yeah, I mean we communicate daily. Man, most of us went
A few of us, didn't.We just kind of bonded. I think,
you know, the o US crewwe were. We were so inviting
and just like, you know,real chill and easy going. I think
we all shared shared that in common. Of course personality differences, but I

(46:52):
think overall, man, people gotgood vibe from us. Hold on,
let me let me y'all was y'allwas real easy going amongst yourself. But
Jerry, I'll be honest, man, when I met them doing reunion,
really feel us first old yet onceour good brother Denniston dimension Read came through

(47:15):
and yeah, I hate a lotof love for him. And then he's
like, but this is my manright here. Al like exactly, y'all
the love you have to be vetted, you have to be I had to
be vetted. After that, itwas like, oh, why you didn't
say that. You didn't tell medifferent. Dimention was responsible for a lot

(47:35):
of us coming to Kolgate. Hedid a good job recruiting and yeah I
did not. I wasn't a productof him of his recruiting, but definitely
yeah, yeah, shout out toDimension man. He was uh influential in
bringing a lot of us uh minoritiesto Kogate. But yeah, it was.
It was. It's about thirteen ofus one so we had we had,

(48:00):
uh we had one white guy thatjust was with us. He was
from Europe. He played basketball,uh Mark Martin Merritt. So he he
was like you know, the onethat stuck out, stuck out like a
sore thumb, and he was tall, like he played power forward for the
basketball team. He's from the CzechRepublic, and uh so he moved back

(48:22):
and he was playing ball over inEurope for a while after graduation and he
kind of settled in back home.So we don't we don't connect as much
with him, but but yeah,everyone else, man, I mean we're
on we're on our chat now.Stop his pinging. Sometimes I you know,
might have it on mute because I'mdoing something, but I'm always like

(48:44):
that when I get a break,you know, I'm going through it catching
up time. And then yeah,absolutely, so yeah, we're you know,
we communicate daily, good stuff.Good stuff. So you lived Drake
your freshman year. Where else didyou live like just rest of your time?
So Drake my freshman year and thenwe went to and uh so the

(49:07):
reason of going we went down toCutting my sophomore year, and uh they
had a dining hall in Cutting,which was like the selling point for us.
You know, we have to goto the name dining hall, kind
of just checking rap a lot ofus, you know, we had a
mix, but a lot of usplayed sports, and uh so that was

(49:28):
that was it was, you know, down the hill across really you know,
pretty much across the Street from allthe athletic complex and stuff across the
Huntington Gym. Absolutely. So,yeah, we we went there. Uh
my junior year, Uh we hadso I ended up getting in with an
upper classma and we moved. Wemoved into the townhomes down down the hill

(49:51):
and uh, oh man, oneof the townhomes the Commons, no Noble,
Wow, all the names escaping me. Now Newell was like more of
an apartment lofestyle. But we hadthe townhomes that had the upstairs downstairs.
Uh jeez, man, I don'thave to get a mathing campus. Bro.

(50:14):
That was the Commons. Was theCommons the Comments was that building,
right? Yeah? It was.It was those units around the Commons,
surround the Commons. That's correct.Yeah. So we so my junior year,
which those are typically for seniors,but because I had a senior roommate,

(50:34):
Rich Grant, he allowed some underclassmento come in with him. Great
Mentor he played football as well,but great Mentor he was from the Syracuse
area. But yeah, so hebrought us on board with him and we
were able to get into uh,we're able to get into the townhomes a
little early, and so I kindof branched off from uh our friend group

(51:00):
because they were still on campus andI was able to get in at the
apartments or in those townhomes. Soby that time I actually had switched roommates
because Caleb was not he was notan athlete. He I mean smart as
heck man sharp, I mean sharpbrother, he's uh but but but like

(51:21):
our schedules just didn't mess really.I was up early, going to going
to lifting and running and conditioning,had games and practices, and you know,
he was he was just there offof you know, his academic abilities,
and so he was just you know, just just just kind of going

(51:42):
to class doing his thing he had. He had other interests, and so
I ended up going with my secondyear, I went with Aaron. Aaron
Morton, he's you know, he'sfootball player as well from New Jersey.
He's part of he's part of theCommission and uh michell, yeah, that's

(52:06):
the name of the crew absolutely,and the name came about uh Nigel Naga
Goodman. He's from Brooklyn and youknow, the Commission, if you follow
hip hop would have been a rapgroup with jay Z Biggie. Uh.
It was like, I forget whoelse those are the main too, and
they would have they would have beencalled the Commission, and so Het kind

(52:29):
of brought that to the fold andthat's that's how the name came about.
But but yeah, so I endedup switching roommates and Aaron was my primary
roommate, but we had four peoplein the town home, so Rich and
Jamal Jamal Lamb he's from Detroit,Michigan. And yeah, so we all

(52:50):
were in the townhomes there. ThenI stayed my senior year in that same
in the Commons as well, Sowe stayed two years in that area.
Rich ended up uh graduating well actuallyhe didn't, but he uh he ended
up. Oh, I ended upgoing back with some of the Commission for
my senior year for roommates. Soyep, so we went Drake Cutting and

(53:15):
stayed in the Commons our last twoyears. Okay, okay, were you
involved in any other extracurriculus besides football? Yeah, yeah, we Now I
wouldn't tell coach Coach Biddle was thehead coach when I was there, but
yeah, man, intramural basketball.Listen, off season we had some intense

(53:36):
battles. So I played intramural basketballbasketball absolutely and a lot of the guys
played flag during the fall, theywere playing flag football. I would go
out and just you know, spectatebecause I was in the middle of my
season. But uh, and thenoutside of that, the student groups.
We we started a male student groupcalled Brothers, and it was predominantly you

(54:04):
know, African American when it started. From my understanding, it's kind of
expanded now. But we did that. We saw a need for just you
know, brothers the fellowship, forus too to have a space to to
to grow and and to to tojust be you know, vulnerable and be

(54:27):
able to share our experiences. Sowe did we started that group, and
I mean it really it really blewup while we were there and afterwards,
and it's still going to my knowledgestill look it looks a little different.
But we were responsible for bringing alot of people to campus. Man,

(54:51):
we had brought uh We're responsible forwe had Spike Lee coming and do and
and do a session. He dida talk with our student body. Man,
I gotta get so. So here'smy thing, Like, because because
I played sports, I wasn't involvedin all of the behind the scenes stuff,

(55:13):
so I I roll a lot youknow on campus, was just being
support because a lot of my timehad taken up with athletics and and that,
you know, that's one of theparts I missed out on was just
like you you learn a lot frombeing in some leadership roles in the student
groups, like just learning how tolearning how to operate off a budget.

(55:37):
A lot of my friends were doingthat, uh a mere one ben to
stick out des Tyrone was was wasdefinitely Kyle Chandler. But yeah, man,
so you know, we brought alot of people on campus and we
were responsible for we used to havelike a spring party weekend and and so
one of the things you know atKolgate as a minority, you got to

(56:00):
be an active participant in order inorder for you to have, you know,
events that you you would want tobe a part of. And we
weren't big on in the greek lifeand frats and the sororities, and that
was like our frat inno sense.So we we made it, you know
that we made it a point andbeing intentional about bringing events and people and

(56:24):
artists that we con vibe with.We brought phil Mob, like I don't
know if y'all familiar with phil Mob, and they're like a South Georgia.
You know kind of you probably considerthem of like, you know, just
like a local artist, but thisis when they were they were kind of
they were popping or just getting onthe scene with Ludacris DTP label. We

(56:50):
had them on campus for a concert. We had j'all rule, we had
uh who we brought? Man?Was it? Kirk Franklin? And I'm
forgetting some names. Man. Wewe you know, we had we made
sure that that you know, actsand artists that we that we could could

(57:13):
you know, vibe with now wewould have fun and appreciate. We made
sure that they were on campus.So we partnered with a lot of the
other student groups you know, outof like Atlanta, Atlanta Cultural Center,
We definitely partner with them. Jeez, I'm forgetting a lot of the student
groups that we that we had oncampus. But that was one of the

(57:37):
more impactful ones for me because asa as a black male, that was
just that was just our space andwe uh, you know, we we
we invested a lot of our timeand resources into that group. So when
you look at your four years,like what are some of the highlights,
what the things you kind of reflecton as accomplishments of your time there.

(58:01):
I would say, first and foremostof relationships I built, Like I say,
my my my friend group. Man, we we were going strong.
We communicate daily. Uh So Iwouldn't trade that part of Coldgate for nothing.
Man, the people I met andthe relationships I built there, you
know, even outside of my youknow, the commission just meet, I

(58:22):
met a lot of like solid peoplefrom Colgate man, you know. But
but that would be a highlight athleticallybeing a freshman I was. I was
one of the only freshmen too wellnot only make the travel squad, but

(58:42):
I started. I was a freshmanstarter by the end of my freshmen semester
or fall semester. I started likethe last five games. So I remember
that stood out to me. Justthat was one of the things, you
know when we talk about like writingdown goals I had. I was going
through some of my old stuff andI ran across some things that I put
down on paper that freshman year ato US, and that was one of

(59:07):
my goals, like hay, tobecome a freshman starter by the end of
the season, and I accomplished that. By the way, what all the
persient did you play? H Iplayed cornerback. I was a dB.
Okay, yeah, okay, andso you know, I definitely played with
a chip on my shoulder, andI was very competitive, and uh,

(59:30):
I took I took. I tookfootball series, you know. And I
think it was a little different inGeorgia. And so I came in playing
with the age that not many ofthe student athletes that cold Gate played with.
And I think that the coaches kindof took notice to it and rewarded
me for it. I academically myfreshman year, and I suffered for it
because I was I was on academicprobation after that freshman year. But I

(59:52):
reeled it in and I got myselfback together, man, and all right.
But yeah, so athletically, youknow, just being being an early
starter, being able to win wewant to two conference championships while I was
there, being being a first generationgraduate of college out of my household,

(01:00:19):
that's a huge accomplishment. Just lifelongfriends that I that I met, the
you know, the degree holds holdsweight to like even in my professional life
today, people you know, seeon my resume coming coming out of Colgate.
It just comes with a certain levelof respect and and so you know,

(01:00:44):
kind of gives me a leg upbefore I even stepped foot in the
room a lot of times. Anduh, you know, I don't I
don't like brag about it and stuffbecause I know people kind of may have
some that may in certain in certainrooms, it may it may make people
feel some kind of way about you. But yeah, man, you gonna
have you you you know, youknow it. Yeah, so uh yeah,

(01:01:10):
man, it was a great experienceoverall. I'll go back to my
freshman year. We kind of gotinto the conversation about weather and just the
transition I went through. I wentthrough my time of wanting to transfer.
I remember, you know, youknow, it was some long winners man,
and its gray and it's snowing allthe time, and I'm used to

(01:01:30):
the sun being out, you know, and something about the something about the
energy of the sun and just seeingthe sun in the sky. Man,
it does a little something to you. Yeah. Spiritually, if you're a
business looking to get your brand infront of a loyal, supportive, successful
market, you need to become asponsor of Aftergate. Our network recognizes the

(01:01:51):
opportunity to work with Kolgate's a lumof color to leverage the reach of the
show to increase awareness and profitability foryour business. Reach out to the Defile
Life podcast network and we will workwith you throughout the entire process. We
have special packages to get you started. Contact us at info at go to
firelife dot com. Every week professionalsof color, ranging from politicians to educators,

(01:02:16):
to judges, to entrepreneurs to lawyers, corporate leaders, and even retirees.
Aftergate reaches an array of successful bipodlisteners, contact us to learn more
about how we can benefit you.And so, yeah, I was definitely
freshman year. I can remember havingtimes where like, man, I want

(01:02:36):
to transfer. Man. A lotof a lot of my boys from back
home, they went h the HBCUroute. You know, we come back
on breaks and they just you know, I got a chance to go to
the AUC because I grew up inthe area. So win or break,
I'm in. Colgate's winter breaks werelonger. We had like five weeks off,
sometimes six, I think. Soa lot of my classmates they would

(01:02:59):
be going back to school, andso I go on to campus and go
to some of their parties, man, and just kind of get the HPCU
vibe. M hm H so youhave to mention walking across Clark Atlanta and
Spelman campus is a different kind ofvibe than you know, cracking across Koge
campus. Absolutely, it's a wholedifferent, whole different vibe and the different

(01:03:20):
look and feel on campus. Soyeah, a lot of that played a
part in it. I was strugglingacademically, and it's guys that I was
running circles around in the classroom inhigh school doing better than me. You
know. I think Kgate definitely challengesyou in a different way than some institutions.
Man so, but but but again, like I think, you know,

(01:03:40):
the grit that I have just inmy approach to life, I'm able
to navigate it and and make andmake do. So I was able to
come out with a with a degreeand and uh and lifelong friends and and
come out a better person for it. So so we're gonna use use this
as a pause so that we cantake a break, show some love to

(01:04:03):
our sponsor, and then come backand hear a little bit about some of
that navigation after Colgate and here aboutwhere you are professionally and what the life
and journey has been like from Colgateto now. Okay, right, back
with this second half of the conversationwith Brother Ma's Class of three. So

(01:04:25):
this episode is sponsored by Hope Murals. Hope Murals is a nonprofit that provides
adolescent youth with an interactive experience ofcreative expression via an urban arts platform that
stimulates both mental and physical development.Please visit that website at www dotemurals dot
org to learn more and find waysyou can support the work they do.

(01:04:53):
Welcome back, Welcome back. Weare here with good brother Max winning Class
of O three second half of thiscommon Station on app to Gate season four.
But before we jump in and geta sense of what his life has
been like since Colgate also known asAftergate, I want to make sure we
thank our sponsor, Hope Murals.As always we are encouraging to show some

(01:05:16):
love to Hope Murals. Jump ontheir website Hope Murals dot org. They
have a social media presence at HoleMurals and learn more about what they're doing
to work with our youth, exposingthem to urban arts and really trying to
increase their sense of hope. Makesure you show Hope Mural some love.
We also want to give some loveto our network, the The File Life

(01:05:41):
network at godefilive dot co. Theyhave some great content on their website.
They also have a podcast hub youcan find more podcasts like this. It's
at the filelifepods dot com. Andremember that you can find this podcast on
all of your major podcasts famous services, so from Apple Pods to spreaker a

(01:06:02):
Spotify, our Heart you can findus The after Gate. One word,
make sure you like or subscribe whenyou are checking us out, so that
you're getting alert when we drop ournext podcast at thirteen hundred hours on Saturday.
I'm gonna pass the mic to myco host, mister the head of
Mind Dubois, so he can leadus back into the second half of its

(01:06:24):
compot. Thank you, brother,and we are here with our illustrious guest
guest, brother Wyn, class ofthree. Before we jump into the journey
of life after Cogate, I wantto be able to explore something that's near
and dear to my heart. Youmentioned in the first half of the show,

(01:06:48):
the opportunity to be part of theI guess founding founding men who establish
a student organization called Brothers that Stillyexists at Colgate today and reference how it
served as a support group it servedas as as an opportunity for men to

(01:07:11):
build bonds and not only be progressivein facilitating programming to campus that would educate
the masses, but to fill avoid in in what we as men of
color may have lacked at COGATE andwas needed to not only survive and sustainable
was about to succeed. Now you'rein the world, and it'd be great

(01:07:35):
if there was an alumni chapter ofour brothers that we could connect throughout the
country for so many of the sameyou know, sort of life challenges that
that we encounter. But I wouldwould love to hear sort of how I
mean you had that insight as ayoung man on a college campus that clearly
did not represent men of color inthe way that it would at an HBCU.

(01:07:58):
But now in as an adult,can you talk a little bit about
sort of how you addressed those challengesthat being a man of color as a
father, as a brother, asa husband, and and sort of what
you do to navigate that and whatmay be some some tips and solutions,
whether they be books that you've reador or or or podcasts you've listened to

(01:08:20):
that could help shed some light toother men of color who are maybe facing
with some of those same challenges andissues. Well, I mean just just
having having surrounding yourself with good withgood people is really the key to it.
And people who hold you accountable.You know, you hear about celebrities

(01:08:44):
and things of that nature that haveyes men around. If you have if
you have people that you know holdyou to a certain standard and keep it
real with you and tell you whenyou mess up and and check you on
things, and you have the abilityto humble yourself and look at them here
and and and find ways to betteryourself. You know, that's that's one

(01:09:05):
of the foundational pieces of it.But just tap you know, tapping into
resources from my friend group you mentioned. You mentioned like you know, some
books or podcasts. So one podcastthat I follow currently is uh it's called
The Pivot and it's it really itreally speaks to me because no, so

(01:09:31):
the Pivot is is is run byformer NFL players Ryan Clark, Fred Taylor,
u Channon Crowder and I'm missing one, uh Fred Taylor, No,
I think that's it. Yeah,it's for four members. So, but

(01:09:53):
they they are their focus is howpeople pivot in life after you know,
whatever their profession or pivotal point inlife may be a lot of a lot
of their early guests were former athletes, and that's primarily how they set up
their podcasts. And they talk abouttransitioning, you know, and a lot

(01:10:16):
of people, UH give you goodinsight into how you can navigate challenging moments
in life. But I have agood I have a good support system,
you know, my parents and unclesand cousins and so you have people I
can lean on in my day today life. And my friend and my
friend group, the Commission and otherpeople that I had. But that that

(01:10:39):
podcast is very influential to me,and it speaks to me because I too
being heavily involved in sports. LikeI said, after I came out of
Colgate. I don't know if wewant to get into that right now,
but it helped me, you know, I had to transition and figure out
what I want to do do itwith myself when I hung up the cleats.

(01:11:00):
And so that's why that podcast reallyspeaks to me. And I follow
it and UH and just tap inwhen they have new releases. But I
think you know, in all youknow, the many hats that we wear
in life as men, and menof color. It can be it can
be challenging, and it can beoverwhelming. So you know, you definitely

(01:11:23):
have to you definitely have to tapinto your mental health in a way that
we're not raised to do. Youknow, I know I can't speak for
everyone, but as men, you'reyou're kind of uh taught to shy away

(01:11:44):
from your emotions and and and andjust kind of you know, put one
foot in, one foot in frontof the other and keep chopping away at
things and just just being kind ofrobotic in a way. Uh. But
you know, we we know that'snot healthy. And you know, as
you get older, you kind ofget exposed to different things. So I
think you know that that has playeda major role in me navigating the many

(01:12:09):
different hats that I wear as acoach, as an educator, a husband,
and a father or brother, acousin. It's not it's no book
on it, but just by havinga good support system and good people around
you, you you find, youknow, you have examples of how to

(01:12:30):
navigate those different roles in your life. I like the although I've never listened
to the podcast, now you canjust turn me. I'll go check it
out and just the name itself.It feels to me, yeah, because
that word. Say that word alot on the show. I was gonna
say that that that's been a newword for me to embrace. Although I've

(01:12:53):
always known of it, I thinkthe meaning behind it for me has become
more relevant in my life, whereyou know, instead of looking at UH
situations as potential setbacks, look atthem as opportunities to just pivot, you
know to It's like a pick androll. You know you're still gonna get
You're still won't get the hoop.It's just a question of you know,

(01:13:15):
making the adjustment and playing to whatthe defense gives you. And so I
appreciate you you you sharing that anddropping some gems and and big shout outs
to to you and and and andthe classes through and the crew for establishing
brothers because UH long overdue. Ithink in many ways, in different decades
of men we've spoken to all hadtheir formal brothers, even if it wasn't

(01:13:38):
a formal student organization. Y'all justgot smart to the game and got some
got got colgated making a student activity, and and throw some money into the
mix, which was helified smart.And so I can't take credit for that
is Hey, you ain't got totake credit. You're part of the founding
crews. You know, it's allgood. At the end of the day,

(01:13:58):
it's and the fact that it stillexists, still, it's still breathing
life. It shows that there wasan integrity and authenticity about the need for
it and the fact that it's grownbeyond even the initial vision. Kudos,
kudos to y'all, to the wholeclique. That's right, thanks, thank
you. It was definitely needed,piled a huge voyd and uh, you
know, as you all know atKolgate with the demographics, man, if

(01:14:21):
you're not an active participanting in thefund around campus, you know, you
could you could definitely not have agood experience. So we try to tap
in with with some of the currentstudent student athletes. I know standing Dacosti,
he's the current head coach. Hedoes a good job of reaching back

(01:14:43):
out to alumni and alumni of colorand trying to thrill us back in to
speak with some of the student athletes. So we've we've heard, you know,
current students talk about some of thosesame things that we were going through,
and that's always my advice to themit's you know, you have to
because of a small campus. Youhave to make you have to make your

(01:15:05):
own fund, You have to youknow, make your own uh social environment,
the way you feel comfortable in,the where you know you would you
would thrive in. If you justsit around waiting for it to happen,
that's that's definitely not the place.Covied is not the place for you.
But if you are able to accomplishthat, you are then able to accomplish

(01:15:26):
it wherever you go, right andright. I kind of left thinking,
well, if I can have funat Covied, I can have fun in
a closet. Yes, sir.It just teaches you a lot, but
it also gave you some ownership becauseit also taught you that as many of
the organizations, whether it be social, political, cultural, all came out

(01:15:48):
of the void, and so ifwe didn't create it, it wasn't gonna
happen. And so to be ableto take that from an educational framework,
and you think about the civil rightsmovement with the same pretense, like,
yo, there's a lack of ifwe don't do it, and it's gonna

(01:16:08):
get done again, let's go doit. Let's go mobilized. Let's go
educate, Let's go you know,sort of uh raise the understanding of what
is it we need, what isit we want, and then let's create
it true, true, true,So as we are speaking of creating our

(01:16:29):
own path, would love to hearwhat your life has been like since Kobe.
So you kind of walked us throughyour journey from once you graduated to
where you are now. Would loveto get a sense of what that walk
has been. Yeah. So,and I struggled talking about myself, but

(01:16:49):
so so leaving leaving out of Kolgate, I still had aspirations of playing ball
and professionally. So I had myrun with with trying out for teams,
playing you know, trying to getinto the NFL. I ended up playing
some arena ball. Uh we letme see, I was. I was

(01:17:13):
kind of so it was it wasan underclass all right. So I'll back
up. I graduated two thousand andthree, and I stayed behind a year
after graduation and worked with doctor Martinin African studies and religion. And I
was getting my feet wet with withcoaching, so I helped out with the

(01:17:35):
football team, like kind of cuttingup film. Back then, we were
we were kind of in that VHSuh transition from VHS to digital. So
yeah, I was still like cuttingup VHS tape tapes and stuff when I
was first getting into it. SoI, you know, I kind of

(01:17:56):
got my feet wet and coaching whileI was still training and working, you
know, working in the Africana Studiesdepartment with Professor Martin. And from there
I played. I played arena forI had a neat I had a knee
injury my senior year that that kindof lingered into those you know, years

(01:18:18):
of trying out for teams and sothat ended up being the demise of my
football career. As I was playingarena ball, it was on turf,
and my knee just wasn't holding up. Man, it was like swelling up
after every practice. And so Idecided, because I was I was still
very heavily, I had a youknow love for sports, I decided to

(01:18:41):
get into coaching, and you know, I kind of got my feet well
at Colgate that year that I stayedbehind and worked and so I just kind
of networked with the coaches there andI got in got my foot in the
door at Allegheny College, which isa Division III school in Western and so
I, you know, did myI got into coaching pretty much right after

(01:19:06):
Colgate. I was a year out, and you know, like I decided
to, hey, you know,I'm gonna go ahead and hang it up
and just pursue coaching. Granted I'vebeen you know, so in totality,
I left home in ninety nine.I stayed behind a year after I graduated
and worked at Colgate. Then Iwent on to Western PA. I got

(01:19:28):
a little homesick, to be honestwith you, and I came back to
Atlanta after that one season at Alleghany, which it was. It was great,
Like I enjoyed coaching and I enjoyedfootball, but I missed home and
I just missed my comfort zone andI was Western PA. It's very much
like well, Alleghany in Western PAwas very much like Colgate in a sense

(01:19:51):
demographically. So yeah, you know, I needed a little more familiarity.
So I moved back to Atlanta andI got into education. But I wasn't
an education major, so I wasa parapro starting out. Man. And
just to you know, talk aboutlike Colgate, how you go through you

(01:20:12):
know, liber Ar's College and comeout and become a pair of pro and
coaching. So that was, youknow, my humble beginning. I wasn't
making much money coming out of Colgateat Allegheny coaching. When you first started
coaching college ball, you don't reallymake much money. And then you know,
just trying to figure out what lifewas going to be like after football,
right, So I coached some highschool ball for a few years.

(01:20:34):
I was at west Lake High Schoolin Atlanta, and I actually coached during
the time when Cam Newton was wasthe quarterback at west Lake. So I
was on the staff that coached CamNewton, you know, before he left
and went off to Auburn and didwhat he did well. He first went
to Florida, and you know,if you follow football, you kind of
know a story. But uh,so I coached high school ball for a

(01:20:57):
couple of years and then a coupleyounger Kogate alum put me onto the nonprofit
life. So I got involved witha nonprofit YFP. Integral Youth and Family
Project was the name of the nonprofitand they were based out of Atlanta.

(01:21:21):
Will Arnold, Running Dillon, andTrail Tyson they all worked there. I
want to say, who else Imight be forgetting it might be forgetting somebody.
But so what we were doing throughthat organization was helping with the transition
of families from the project. SoAtlanta was going through reformation in a sense

(01:21:45):
with the way that they envisioned lowerincome housing. So you know, a
lot of cities were transitioning from theconcentrated poverty areas with just like you know,
all Section eight housing to mixed incomeand Atlanta was kind of on the
forefront of that. And so alot of the projects got torn down during

(01:22:08):
that time period, and they weresupposed to be rebuilding the projects and making
them mixed income, inviting those familiesback, but they left. You know,
after they relocated the families, theygave them a voucher to take with
them so that they can you know, still have maintained that affordable housing and
maintain the quality of life. Sowe were responsible for making sure families had

(01:22:30):
all the resources, you know,connecting them with you know, doctors and
getting you know, making sure thatthe kids were getting the resources they needed
at schools. So you know,I would have a caseload of families that
I would check in with while theywere at the projects and after they moved
out, you know, kind ofhelping them navigate that whole process and get

(01:22:50):
just get life and order in theirnew environment. Man. So that was
very fulfilling work. I've always beenbeen more of a person who, you
know, like working with people andand just having a positive impact on people.
And I think that's how I endedup in education for sure. But
but so I ended up doing thatfor about I want to say, about
two years, and I got Igot the itch to get back into coaching,

(01:23:15):
right So I think, you know, coming back home, being in
Atlanta for a few years, gettingback around family, that kind of that
feel if that void had been filledby moving back and spending some time here,
and I still had a love forthe game. So I you know,
I reached back out to Ed Pickham, my man who recruited me.

(01:23:36):
He had moved on from Kolgate andhe was kind of you know, he
was he was at Rutgers at thetime, so he's coaching big time Division
one. Rutgers was in the BigEast at the time, and you know,
I still keep in contact with him. He was still recruiting the Atlanta
area and I was working in youknow, still coaching at high school ball.

(01:23:57):
So I would see him when hecomes in town, you know,
put him onto some of the schoolsto look at stuff like that. And
so just from that, from thatrelationship, he got me in the door
at Rutgers. So it was around, it was around. Well, let
me rewind. So while I wasworking with working at IFP, I hit
a milestone personally where you know Iwas. I was, I want to

(01:24:20):
say, twenty five twenty six,I purchased my first house, right,
So that was a huge win forme, you know, just coming out.
I mean I didn't have any inheritanceor anything like that. You know,
it just kind of you know,picking myself up by the bootstraps.
That's the epitome of it. So, you know, twenty five twenty six,
I purchased my first home. Stillstill own that place today. But

(01:24:44):
anyway, now so I get backinto college coaching. He got me in
the door at Rutgers, and Iwas more or less a GA. They
have they have back then, theythey weren't allowed to have but a certain
number G So they had what theycall quality control positions that they would put
you in, which was a glorifiedGA position. You broke down a lot

(01:25:06):
of film, you did a lotof the dirty work for practice, and
so I kind of got my footin the door coaching, got back into
coaching that way, and I workedwith coach Pincum he was the defensive coordinator
and Greg Ciano was the head coach. He's actually back at Rutgers now and

(01:25:30):
I'd spent about a year and ahalf there and so not making much money.
I so this is just like someyou know, I don't share this
with many people, but it's partof my story. So I had bought
my I had bought a home attwenty six, got back into coaching,
and the hours that you put inas a as a collegiate coach, and

(01:25:53):
the amount of money I made waslike laughable for the amount of workouts putting
there and living being in New inNew Bruns with New Jersey, you know,
making like chump change. I now, it's not cheap. And I
still own my home in Atlanta.And you know, so it was right
around the time with a bubble burstin the in the housing market. So

(01:26:17):
you know, the economy we hadgone through that was the Great Recession,
and the economy was was was youknow, in the in the stink,
and it was hard to keep attendedin the house, right, So I
was like paying a mortgage in Atlantaand trying to make ends meet in New
Jersey out for chump change that Iwas making college football. So guess what
I'm I'm sleeping in the office,bro. Like I was, I was

(01:26:39):
homeless to to to an extent,I didn't have an apartment or anything to
go to, so I slept inmy office on the air mattress, you
know what I mean. I wasn'tthen only one. It was kind of
the culture. You know, alot of the younger guys who into into
the game of coaching, collegiate coaching, that's just kind of how you that's
how you operate, especially during thefall when you're in season. You're working

(01:26:59):
around the clock, so you know, we're putting in. Like there were
some days like I can you know, think back when we had our game
days on Saturday, we'd come backfrom a game and we'd wait for the
film to drop so you can start. You know, it's like data entry.
You start to break down the film, break down your upcoming opponent.

(01:27:21):
So we would go, you know, have a game that day, and
we'd be up the whole day andwe'd come back and sleep on the floor
in the office waiting for the filmto download and then jump right on it.
We had to produce, uh,you know, our our game plan
for the upcoming opponent, and itwas like a three wing ring binder of

(01:27:45):
data plays, favorite plays, formations, et cetera. But we would be
up like we pulled twenty hour dayeasy, you know, on some of
those Saturday Saturdays after the game andgoing into Sunday and uh so, yeah,
man, those were some some roughtimes and humble beginnings. Man,
getting my feet wet in college culture. So after doing about a year and

(01:28:09):
a half at Rutgers, I gotback in at Colgate. I decided to
reach out to coach Biddle. Hewas still he was the head coach while
I was there, and he gaveme opportunity to coach at Colgate. Uh.
Now, granted I hadn't started makingthe big bucks at that time,

(01:28:30):
and so I you know, wasstill I was making a little more when
I was making at Rutgers, butuh, and I had more responsibility.
I was actually able to go outand recruit at this position I had,
you know, I was over myown position group. I wasn't necessarily a
ga it was called a limited earningsposition. Things have shifted in the n
C double A now, so theythey're able to pay. They're willing to

(01:28:51):
pay you more money. They hadit back then too, but they were
just willing to put my resources intoit now. But backdrop, right,
So I'm kind of navigating my professionalcareer. While I was in Atlanta,
I met my current wife. Wewere dating, you know, leading into
me making a decision to get into get back into coaching. My wife,

(01:29:15):
Candas she was at seminary at EmoryUniversity in Atlanta, and she was
at the Cander School of Theology.So we met there and decided to be
long distance. While I was kindof, you know, out pursuing my
coaching career, and it got toa point where, you know, do

(01:29:36):
I really want to bounce around everycouple of years? Like collegiate coaching is
so unstable. If you you know, if you hit it big, you
can make a lot of money init, but you know that's a select
few to do to that. SoI had to, you know, really
think about the quality of life Iwanted to live, and do I want
to have my family bounce around everycouple of years When you know, a

(01:30:00):
new opportunity presents itself, or yourhead coach get fired. So in living
living that life, you're kind ofbound to you know, your network of
people, and you're kind of attachedto the fate of your head coach.
If your head coach gets a bigger, bigger opportunity, they could leave that
they have a sub part year,they could get fired, you know.

(01:30:20):
So it's very unstable, and andI decided, you know, I didn't
want that. I kind of grewup in the household with two parents.
You know, my folks were alwaysyou know, at my practices and games
and just there to support me.And and I decided I wanted to get
out of that because of the longhours and things. So again here's that
last of word to pivot, Right, So what do I do next?

(01:30:44):
Right? So I do you know, I'm very like spiritual, not necessarily
religious guy, but I enjoy havinga positive impact on people. So,
uh, you know, I've doneI've done some work with the nonprofit.
I've been at a high school.Uh. My wife at the time we
ended up, my girlfriend at thetime, Uh, we decided I proposed

(01:31:06):
to her while we were long distance. She had graduated and was wash was
moving down to Florida to work,and you know, she was she she
was an ordained minister. So shehad started out in the church down there
as a youth pastor, and soit was in South Florida, and I'm

(01:31:30):
like, man, I'm up herein upstate New York. You know.
We ended up deciding to uh tryto night. She said yes when I
asked her to marry, marry me, and so, you know, fast
forward, I get to where weare now, but you know, married
now with two beautiful kids. Butso that was a pivotal moment as well,

(01:31:51):
you know, deciding to leave collegiatecoaching and I naturally kind of you
know, just transitioned into the lifeof an educator. So I moved down
to Fort Lauderdale and we were inMirrormark actually, uh and ended up settling
down at Fort Lauderdale. I gotback into high school. I was working

(01:32:14):
at a at a private school downthere, Catholic school, Saint Thomas Aquinas,
very like prestigious high school. Itwas another Colgate connect. The actually
got my foot in the door there. Like Saint Thomas Aquinas is like a
high school that plays on ESPN.They played like a national schedule, right,
so there's no school to sniff at. Kolgate got me in the door

(01:32:36):
there there was. I got RobWanger. He was a former he's an
alum of Colgate and he was inthe lum of St. Thomas Aquinas he
was coaching there at the time.He was actually looking to get into in
the college game. So we kindof just traded off. I got him,
uh you know, he knew someof the same people, so I

(01:33:00):
got his foot in the door inthe collegiate world, and I got him
share some of our connects and thingsof that nature. And he got my
foot in the door for an interviewat the same time as a quietness and
you know, got once I getI always say, hey, you get
my foot in the door, man, I'll do the rest. So I
was able to get on on boardthere as a as a teacher. I
kind of got my first start thereas a full time teacher. And I

(01:33:28):
missed I missed a I missed somedetails here. My wife, my current
wife, and I met I wasin grad school. I did not mention
that point I had before I gotinto collegiate coaching. I started, uh
masters in art of teaching, Soit was a it was a dual program

(01:33:53):
to get a master's and get yourinitial shart to be a teacher in the
public school system. I gotten intothat at Mercer University. They had a
or they have a campus in Atlanta, So I started that before I got
back into college coaching. So Ihad to retract there. But I did
not finish that program. I hadgotten to the point where I was doing

(01:34:15):
my student teaching and I'm kind ofall over the place. So just to
kind of bring y'all back, Ihad already bought my home. I was
working for a nonprofit at that time. This was back in like two thousand
and eight, and so in orderto do your hours as a student teacher,
you can't work a full time job. I had a mortgage. So

(01:34:38):
that was one of those moments whereyou know, I was like, I
ended up deciding to go into collegecoaching, and I aborted that program to
go back and start coaching college football. So now fast forward, after deciding
to go back into education, thiswas before COVID and all the virtual schooling.

(01:35:00):
It was so tough man to finishthat program. They you know,
they weren't as flexible as they areand technology just wasn't up to the point
where I could do stuff virtually.But luckily, since I was working at
a private school, that requirement wasn'tnecessary for me to have, you know
that cert. So I spent aboutthree years at Saint Thomas aquinas awesome experience.

(01:35:27):
I mean, I coached some someyou know guys that you all probably
know if you follow football now.I was able to coach the Bosa brothers,
Joey Bosa, Nick Bosa, NickBosa, you know, one of
one of the premier defensive ends inthe NFL, place for the San Francisco
forty nine ers, Joey Bosa playsfor the LA Chargers. Countless other people

(01:35:49):
who you know had shorter stints thanthey did in the NFL. But great
experience. Man traveling around, playing, playing on ESPN, coaching high school
ball at a religious institute. Again, my wife, you know, she's
an ordained minister, so that waskind of you know, right on line.
But yeah, that was a greatexperience. We had our first son

(01:36:15):
while we were in Florida, andI think about yeah, it was about
a year he was about a yearold when we were you know, decided
like if we wanted to stay inFlorida or move back around family. We
decided to move back to Atlanta.So this was around twenty fifteen. Just
to kind of give you a timeline, so you know, Rutgers. I

(01:36:39):
was at Rutgers in two thousand andnine, Colgate around like twenty ten,
twenty eleven. I did two yearsat Colgate, ended up going down to
Florida. I got married in twentytwelve, and I did a few interviews
to see if I could land fulltime job as a collegiate coach that fell

(01:37:02):
through. My wife and I gotjust to kind of share some some just
some insight about the marriage. Wescheduled our wedding. We had a winter
wedding, and it was because wedid it strategically. It was a dad
week for recruiting and so so yeah, we were we were long distance when

(01:37:25):
we got married because my wife wasliving in Florida, I was. I
was in New York. So wegot married January seventh. It's a dead
weekend recruiting for college coaches. Andwasn't able to do our honeymoon because I
had to get back on the roadand recruit and yeah, man, it
was crazy. Yeah, So thatSpring was where I, you know,

(01:37:48):
did my last ditch or last runat getting a you know, higher pay,
full time collegiate job at a largerDivision one school. You know,
I kind of ran through my mydifferent through our network of people, and
see at back Atlanta job had acouple of interviews, didn't fall through.

(01:38:08):
So twenty twelve, that summer iswhere I moved down to Florida. Spent
about three years there. Our firstson was born, Mason was born twenty
fourteen, and we decided to moveback to We were deciding my wife's from
DC. We were deciding between DCand Atlanta d C of course, or

(01:38:29):
Atlanta more affordable d C. Youknow, I was, I was kind
of I was a fan of DC. My wife since she had been in
grad school in Atlanta, and shehad been comfortable in Atlanta. She you
know, and the cost of livingis cheaper in Atlanta. So we decided
to come back here. So movedback to Atlanta twenty fifteen. I had

(01:38:50):
not finished my teaching certification, right, so I'm back here. I didn't
have another private school to go intotoo. I could have I could have
gone that route, but me beingme, I wanted to get back to
my community. So I was kindof looking to go into the public school
sector. I had just come offof thinking, you know, collegiate,

(01:39:14):
I mean my coaching career. Ijust come off of two state championships down
in Florida same time as a quietas. We won two state championships out
of the three years I was there. So I was pretty hot coach coming
in Atlanta. And we had movedback into that townhome just kind of bring
things back full circle. Moved backto that townhome that I bought when I
was twenty five. So that wasable to you know, be a landing

(01:39:40):
spot for us when we moved back, because I had been written it out
all the time I've been you know, doing my coaching thing. And so
yeah, we moved back into thattownhome. And my daughter was born about
a year end to Atlanta, soshe was born twenty sixteen. We moved,
we moved here in twenty fifth teen. My daughter, my second child,

(01:40:01):
My daughter was born in twenty sixteen, and I had worked for another
nonprofit while I was figuring out,you know, my certification for teaching.
I worked for Sheltering Arms, ShelteringArms Early childcare Development center. I did

(01:40:23):
what was called the Family Support Specialists. So I wasn't in the classroom like
changing diapers and stuff, but Iwas part of the staff and getting parental
involvement, increasing parental involvement, workingwith males, and that was one of
my lanes, was trying to increasethe male involvement at our centers. And

(01:40:47):
so I did that and I kindof navigated my way and getting my certification
for education on start short so Ikind of got I got in at May's
High School twenty sixteen and ended upgetting my certification or starting a certification to

(01:41:08):
teach. I had to go analternate route because I had been out of
the MERCER program for so long,and so they have what's called Georgia tap
Georgia taptis for teachers who are currentlyin the field. You know, I
passed all my my content area testsand I just did not have the education

(01:41:30):
courses to get my certification, soI, you know, I had to
go that route. I ended upgetting into Drew Charter School, which is
where I currently work, and that'sin East Atlanta as in East Lake,
and that that school has a richhistory in the in the city of Atlanta.
It came about just to give youa little history on that. It

(01:41:55):
came about due to the revitalization inEast Atlanta. So there was a notorious
project East Slate Meadows and used theycall it a little Vietnam. That's just
you know, just how rough itwas back in you know, in the
nineties, the eighties and nineties,you know, the drug game had really

(01:42:16):
taken over, and gang violence andall that stuff was running rampant. And
so you know, when the Olympicscame to Atlanta, that's where that that
initiative of tearing down the projects andrevitalizing them, making a mixed, mixed
income communities. This was one ofthe success stories. Drew Charter School was
built with uh, you know,with Tom Cousins. He's a you know,

(01:42:41):
influential uh person here in Atlanta asfar as like just a revitalization process
investing in real estate and so hehad a vision for that school in the
community and invested a ton of moneythere. So these Slate Foundation is also
a partner of that school, andthey started out with justin elementary school and

(01:43:03):
it kind of worked its way up. So I come in twenty seventeen,
I think it was, and nowthey have their high school. So it's
two there's three academies. They havean early child, the elementary academy,
have the middle school we call itja Junior Academy, and then the Senior

(01:43:24):
Academy. I worked for in theSenior Academy, teaching twelfth grade social studies
now, and I got my footin the door there being that it was
a charter school, you know,I was able to get in with my
temporary shirt while I finished up mycertification program through Georgia Tech. Finished that

(01:43:45):
up, and I ended up Iended up finishing my masters, right.
So it's a funny story how thathappened. One of my wife's friends from
seminary, he's an educator, sohe does you know, he's a pastor,
like pastors that something some pastors aren'tlike full time in the church and

(01:44:05):
some of them, you know,have other jobs they do. So he
was one of those that was apastor, not not a lead pastor,
but a pastor of a church.And he's an educator. He's an educator,
you know, that's his day job. And so he's actually a principal
now at Flat Shows Elementary and thecap But he had a conversation with me,
man, it was doing like COVID, the COVID time period, and

(01:44:28):
he was like, man, youknow you should really reach out to Mercer
and just see, hey, ifthey'll let you finish your your degree,
you know, And he was like, hey, they can only say no,
man, with all the This isaround the time where you know,
student loan debt was on the forefrontof the politics and and you know coming
up with different programs to relieve peopleof student student loan debt. All of

(01:44:54):
my student loan debt came from Mercer, right, because coming out of Colgate,
I think only all money to goingto an extended study to Japan.
We did an extended study in Japan. That was my first international trip,
and shout out Kolgate for that,but that might that was all. That
was the only debt I had comingout of Kogate because you know, everything

(01:45:15):
was paid for, so Mercer Ihad racked up I don't know, maybe
like twenty five K and student loandebt, which is dropping a bucket for
some folks, but a lot,you know, it's nothing to sniff at.
So I'm paying off student loans andnot reaping the benefits of it.
Education is one of those professions whereyou're not getting rich anyway. So I

(01:45:39):
reached out to Mercer. They hada new dean at the time, and
it was right around you know thatthe COVID time period. He showed a
little grace allowed me to jump backinto the program where I left off,
right and not saying go back anddo because at that time, right,
you know, your your credits hadexpired. He could have been like,

(01:46:00):
hey, man, you got tostart back from scratch, but he allowed
me to start where I left off. Man, So here's another loan for
you. Yeah you got, Imean, so you know, I got
align stuff for the workout. Man. He saw the struggle man, and
uh and so yeah, man,that was one of those times where the
stuff started aligning for me, andso I was able to go back finish

(01:46:23):
my masters. They allowed me touse my class for my student teacher hours
to do my you know reflections andstuff that that worked out really well for
me, and I still coach.I still coach I'm at. When I
moved back to Atlanta in twenty fifteen, I was teaching at May's, ended

(01:46:44):
up getting in at Drew. Iwent back to my alma manter at tried
cities, and I have been coachingfootball there and I currently I shifted to
Carver, Atlanta because it's closer tohome, closer to you know, closer
to where I work. And sonow you know, that's what I'm currently
doing. I've been at Drew CharterSchool for this is year eight for me,

(01:47:09):
longest place I've ever been, youknow, as far as like what
I've been bouncing around as y'all herelike every few years I'm doing something else.
But I've found some stability there anduh and uh, you know,
I'm I'm in a leadership role work. My way to ai S is Academic

(01:47:30):
Integration Specialists. So I'm over.I'm over, you know, twelfth grade.
I'm a twelfth grade league teacher andso you know, that's one of
the things. And they give me, they give me a lot of opportunity
to grow professionally. So I feelI've made a home there. And and
you know again i live back ineight years of past or seven years past.

(01:47:51):
I'm in my eighth year. Now, that's the longest I've been at
anyone stops. So I enjoy livingWe're in East Atlanta, and you know,
I enjoy living in the community Iwork, I work in and you
know, our kids are getting older, their their schedules are picking up.
Yeah. Yeah, it's just it'sjust working out things and folding place.

(01:48:16):
I feel, you know, somestability now, Amen, fantastic, But
that's me man. But that's thejourney. That's the journey. And if
it wasn't that grit you learned upin Hamilton, you know, for a
lot of heads that that that thatjourney may not have been as successful even
with the pivots, you know whatI'm saying. So kudos to kudos to

(01:48:41):
you and and and definitely kudos tothe education. The educated in you is
Alvin and I not only uh tookthat course but are still in that industry
in both higher eds and in nonprofitand in community development. And so uh
we need we need, we needmore brothers in that work. And then

(01:49:04):
look forward to tracking the career ofyours and looking to see how where we
can collaborate because there's definitely a lotof low hanging fruit to collaborate. And
when we sit down and really build, who knows what can come out of
that. I want to get aquestion about perspective here, and so I
love to get your thoughts on ifyou had a chance to talk to Max

(01:49:30):
when Max is entering Colgate, whatwould be some of the words wisdom you
would whisper into that Max's ears aswell as what would you tell that Max
as he's graduated Coldgate? What wouldbe your words of wisdom? Advice?
Have a plan B right, youknow, don't put all your eggs in
one basket. Uh. I thinkI could have done a better job of

(01:49:56):
utilizing resources at Colgate to set meup for after I graduated. I mean
I didn't use career services like that'syou know, one of the low hanging
fruits like so, you know thatwould be advice to the younger me.
Don't put your eggs. Don't putall your eggs in one basket and have
a plan B. Utilize the utilizedcareer services and the resources at Colgate to

(01:50:23):
help set up your next move onceyou graduate. Okay, okay, last
question before we get out of here. Is really an opportunity for you to
plug something? So is there anyinitiative, cause, website, or just
anything you would like to list andpromote so that our listeners can support the

(01:50:46):
things that are important to you.We just want to use this platform to
also kind of rally if we can. So let's shout out to my wife.
So my wife had uh started anonprofit called Boom Born out of necessity.
She's she's still in the faith basedspace. She's not full time you

(01:51:11):
know, pastor anymore. Uh,she's you know grown that that grind.
It's another grind that's similar to education. You take a lot of work home,
you're doing work after hours. Soas our family has grown, she
wanted to move out of that spaceof like working full time for church.
So she works for an organization calledOrange, which is a faith based nonprofit

(01:51:34):
and she to parallel with what wewould see an education, she's more or
less a coach or instructional coach.So Orange produces produces curriculum for for pastors
to use, and she is she'sover coaching the counselor that that curriculum and

(01:51:55):
helping pastes implement it. So soshe's seen a void in her experience with
Orange. It's a predominant white organizationand in the faith based UH. In
in that space, a lot ofthe conferences and things that she's had she's
had the privilege of going to fromworking with that organization. She's not seeing

(01:52:15):
many people like us in the building, you know, whether it be the
MC's, the keynote speakers, thepeople running the workshops, et cetera.
So out of that, she shehas started her own organization to promote and
and give people who work with innercity youth the resources to tap into those

(01:52:39):
spaces. So Born out of Necessityis the name of the organization. Man,
uh, let me see, Iwill I will provide y'all with the
social media handle and things of thatnature. But yeah, that's the name
of the organization. She's just she'sshe's just celebrated her first year with being

(01:53:01):
the founder of the organization, andit's just kind of navigating that nonprofit space,
so figuring out funding, you know, those are some of the hurdles
and things that she's been navigating andhow to make it sustainable, you know,
how to make the nonprofit sustainable soshe can so eventually, you know,
that can be her main thing.So that's that's uh, that's who

(01:53:24):
I was shout out. My lovelywife, Canda is Win and Boom.
Born out of Necessity as an organization. Love the name, love the love
the acronym for sure. Any lastwords, brother, I enjoyed the experience
of, you know, just beingon the podcast. I don't have the

(01:53:46):
opportunity to be in a space likethis. I'm in my own little silo
in my bubble in the classroom,so venturing out and doing something like this
was it. I was hesitant withwith with doing it, but it turned
out to be a great experience.Again, I'm not as comfortable talking about

(01:54:10):
myself and sharing my story, especiallyon a public platform, but you all
made me feel that home, mademe feel comfortable, So it turned out
pretty well. So thank y'all forbeing the host that you are and UH
and and the people that you are, your personality and uh just making making
your guests feel comfortable with sharing intimateparts of their life. Well appreciate you

(01:54:39):
and seeing the respect that this crewof at aliens that you know, I'm
kind of the o G and thiscrew, but you know, I get
to get to be there with you'allevery now and then. But I could
see that these brothers, you know, they got a lot of love and
respect for who you are so tobe. But to get your story on

(01:55:00):
here, Brian, I really doappreciate it, and just keep doing all
you're doing in the A and keepmaking the mark and keep showing up as
the husband and father that you are. And yeah, man, it's been
a pleasure. So we send thatright back at you. And you got
some advocates and me and Jerry downhere, So continue to network and continue

(01:55:23):
to plug as we keep going forward. Right, yes, sir, this
has been another episode of Aftergate seasonfour, So thank you to our guests,
thank you to our listeners. AfterGate is always powered by the the
fire Life Network, so make sureyou check us out in the future on
all of your favorite podcast streaming platforms. Many more dope episodes to follow.

(01:55:45):
Remember, do the best you canand all the ways you can, for
all the people you can, foras long as you can, And that
the coviate of your day is notthe coviate of today, and it's certainly
not the coldate of the future.Family. You hear that, listen closer,
that, my friend, is thedeafining sound of focus. It drowns

(01:56:09):
out all the useless noise that canclutter the only nay sayers don't exist,
Haters, smaters, the peanut gallery. Who's that when you're in your zone,
all that noise and all that buzzis just elevator music. So enjoy
your journey, focus on your goaland basque in the choirt role that is

(01:56:30):
progressing, Because when it's your timeto shoot that shot, spit that verse,
or close that deal, the onlyvoice that matters, it's yours, the firelight

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Ep 4.13 - Max Wynn

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Ep 4.13 - Max Wynn