Ep 4.5 - Dianne Stewart

Alvin and German conduct a great conversation with Author & Emory University Professor, Dianne M. Stewart. ’90.  Dianne, originally from Kingston, Jamaica, currently holds the prestigious position of Samuel Candler Dobbs Professor of Religion and African American Studies at Emory University. One of her notable achievements includes the inception of the acclaimed course "Black Love." Her academic contributions have garnered recognition through numerous awards and fellowships, including the esteemed Emory College of Arts and Sciences 2021-2022 Chronos Faculty Fellowship. After Colgate, she earned her MDiv from Harvard Divinity School and her PhD in systematic theology from Union Theological Seminary in New York City. Her scholarly pursuits extend beyond borders, encompassing research endeavors in Trinidad, Jamaica, and a multitude of other nations across Africa, Latin America, and the Caribbean. She has shared her expertise through lectures and research activities in diverse locales such as the Democratic Republic of Congo, Nigeria, Brazil, and many others. During her time at Colgate, she actively engaged in various student organizations, including a DJ on WRCU via NightFlight and Sojourners, while also fulfilling the role of Resident Advisor for two years. She obtained her B.A. degree from Colgate University in English and African American Studies.

Episode Transcript

(00:16):
Are you ready? Are you ready? Are you all ready? Are you

(00:46):
all ready? Welcome? Welcome,Welcome, Welcome back. This is Aftergate
and as always, this is yourAlvin Glyn. I am a co host
of this show where every week weare just doing our best to amplify the

(01:07):
journeys of alumni color from Koka University. We've had an amazing four seasons and
it has really been our honor toplay this role. And when I say
our honor, I am here asalways with my co host Roda died since
class of no since the year ofnineteen eighty seven, that summer of o

(01:29):
us my man, mister head ofmind duvoir aka Jerry? What's going on?
Brother? How you doing? Brother? All as well in the Sunshine
State? Can't complain beautiful day midday, so you know, everything for the
rest of the week is downhill.Yeah, and still excited about what we
got coming up in a couple ofweeks up at Hamilton and I'm sure we'll

(01:49):
shit a little light on that,you know, we can. Trying to
pass the word. Let folks knowthat whether you're planning or not planning to
be at COVID this weekend, youshould seriously consider the oppos need to engage
with some of the pioneers, thetrailblazers that many of us stand on their
shoulders. With the fiftieth anniversary ofUNI DA, the fiftieth anniversary of unf

(02:13):
UMF and as well as the anniversaryof the first woman's graduating class, that's
correct from big fifties. To becelebrating and looking forward to be connecting with
folk and being part of that legacyduring reunion in June is what he's referencing.
So definitely check it out. Soappreciate that shout out thanks is good

(02:36):
down here in the A so nocomplaints, and so looking forward to our
next guests this week. So ifit's all right with you, can I
get your blessing bring our guests intothe studio. The congregation says, amen,
let's proceed sir, Thank you,thank you, thank you. So
Aftergate listeners, alumni and color justwant all of y'all's blessings as we welcome

(02:58):
into the studio the one, theOnly, Die and Steward class of nineteen
ninety Welcome to Aftergate. My sister, Well, thank you so much for

(03:23):
hosting me today. It's wonderful tobe with you both. It's been it's
been a while. It's been awhile. It's been a while. Your
voice sounds the same, you look, you know, it's like I see
you and I kind of take meback to those years. But you know,
it's good to have you here.And yeah, welcome, welcome to
after Gate. Thank you, thankyou so much. So in our tradition,

(03:47):
we love to share with the listeners, is this someone that we are
meeting for the first time, oris this someone where we've actually crossed paths.
In this instance, we've had threeyears together where your class of ninety
ninety one, So everybody we knowa little bit about this week's guest as

(04:08):
we've spent time with them on campus, but I can't say I know too
much about your life after and Idefinitely know who's Diane before Colate is like,
I have no knowledge of that.So looking forward to hearing your story.
Okay, thank you. As youwant to share with our listeners our
customary fashion of sort of maybe whatyou recall that when of your first engagement

(04:30):
or first interaction where you recognize andI can tell you mine. I could
definitely tell you, well, mymemory of Diane is a very strong sister,
like a protective sister, someone whowas about our community. If I
remember correctly, you was an raagc one who you know, at my
time of trying to get comfortable oncampus with someone who helped show the way,

(04:56):
like was willing to mentor and that'sof like, hey, people who
are coming behind me, this ishow you do It. Probably made me
a better student because if I remembercorrectly, she was a good one and
yeah, yeah, yeah, that'skind of my memory of who she was
my three years of being with her. And so again I'm anxious to hear

(05:17):
your story. I have fond memoriesof you as a person and as we
look at we love to say thankyou, so I appreciate you saying this,
Jerry. We always love to saythankful, thank you to the the
students who were willing to make ourjourney better, and you were one of
those, just a female version ofit. And so that means we had

(05:41):
some interesting you know, because youwere you know, now I'm getting a
rambling. You were protective of thewomen. You know, so as a
brother, who was you know,at times I felt your scout like dude,
enough act better, be better andyou know, well I might not
appreciate it then I definitely appreciate itnow and so you know, appreciate you

(06:04):
asking me this question, Jerry.So just thankful for who you were and
looking for who you are now.Thank you, it's wonderful. Well what
you were? What year were you? Ari A for you and RNA correct
your junior senior year, My junioryear. And then I became a head
resident my senior year. So Iwas in that byant complex in that middle

(06:27):
area. Yeah. I just wantedto make sure I have my my story
right because my first engagement with DianeStewart was in a bit of an official,
unofficial capacity, uh, and itwas by committee. It was you,
h Carter Beckford. Oh hey,Carl was the already my freshman year,

(06:51):
and I had just recently received theSports Illustrated Swimsuit edition, which was
that time. This is all prethis is also pre social media for me,
free internet, you know, andI decided to posterize my dorm door
and my room with the color.With the addition and the committee of which

(07:17):
Diane was a part of, decidingto school me that in that moment as
to the degradation that I was executingand the objectification, and then not to
mention that that time supposed illustrated,it wasn't the most diverse they. I
don't think they had a DEI departmentthen, and so needless to say,
the representation of models was not soin their very maternal but in orderly big

(07:47):
sister fashion was you know, educatingme on why it was wrong, but
did it in a in a lovingway, and like we go you step
outside right right right, but ina loving way that that that that brings

(08:07):
that sense of like but you aretaking those down, like remain up you
plan to say, residing here,And so that was I was like,
wow, this is there is someserious systems up here that's going on.
And so that always was my firstimpression and to our's point at that time,
at seventeen eighteen, I may nothave fully understood or appreciated what y'all

(08:31):
took the role in being a hugepart of my education, like that Kogie
didn't pay for, but I thankyou because from there, y'all just the
Siegs just continue to get planted.And I'd like to think that I've been
able to so many of those seedsin my life. For first personally and
wow, what memories. This isnews to me. I would have never

(08:56):
thought that this is what you wouldboth say. But it's seems characteristic,
it seems real to me. Actually, as Jerry was talking I do,
I began to feel like I gota slight recollection of that. Yeah,
coming back, it's coming back,Yeah, I do. I do.
We have this a little running jokeon the show that We Know We that

(09:20):
we kind of like clinically or unclinicallydiagnosed folks were suffering from PTCV post traumatic
Kogate disorder and selective memory of whatthey recall. But the things they recalled
tend to be very real experiences thatin some cases maybe the first time they're
talking about it, whether in thedorm, in the classroom in Hamilton.

(09:43):
And so, yeah, it's okaythat that that you have a vague memory,
because it probably would have been agood memory because unless this have been
redeemed with my Cogate days. Andso, so you are class of nineteen
ninety at Kobe, So you graduatehigh school from nineteen eighty the six ish.
Where are you from? Well,that's an interesting question because when people

(10:05):
ask where I'm from, I'm alwaysgoing to say Jamaica. Amen. If
you ask me where I grew up, I'm going to say heart for Connecticut.
Oh no, I was naturalized asa citizen at thirteen, fourteen years
old. I believe I was stillthirteen at the time. But you know,
so it doesn't matter how I soundbecause of where I grew up.

(10:28):
I was saying to someone earlier today, when you make the trek from your
homeland to another culture country, youalways remember that it marks you, you
know, and my three, mytwo siblings and I who were born in
Jamaica, we talk about the differencesbetween us and my two brothers who were

(10:52):
born in America. It doesn't matter. There's something that shapes you about that
trek from your home country to anothercountry. So, yeah, my answer
is always going to be Jamaica.To where are you from? Where I
grew up Harford, Connecticut, arounda lot of Jamaicans, you know,
a lot of Jamaican immigrants. Yeah, okay, Harford was one of the

(11:13):
top three capitals of Jamaican immigration enclaves. It was Brooklyn, it was Miami,
and it was Harford. Never knewthat, trivia. So give us
a sense then of what your lifeis like before you get into Coolgate.
What do you remember about Hartford?What do you remember about your life?
Who's set the context for Diana,She's coming into Cogate. Well, I

(11:37):
should also say that I grew uparound, yes, a lot of Jamaican
immigrants, but also a lot ofAfrican Americans who were one generation removed from
the South. While the Jamaicans weregoing back home in the summers, they
were going down south in the summers. You know. I grew up in
the Hartford's North End, in anarea where we were right on the edge

(12:01):
of Bloomfield, Connecticut, so reallyclose to the quote unquote suburbs, you
know. And I grew up ina neighborhood where black folks owned their homes.
A lot of them were duplexes,owned their homes and worked their two
and three jobs to keep those homeswith the neat little flowers around them.
And you know, it was itwas a it was a beautiful world to

(12:26):
me. For a number of reasons, I was bussed out to suburban white
Catholic schools. My siblings and Iand then my two younger brothers actually ended
up going to high school at aprep school. Actually, so for high

(12:46):
school they went to prep school wherethe first three the elder children, we
went to Catholic High School as well. And coming home to that neighborhood was
it was the mecca. As Tanahasecoatstalks about Howard University, it was it
was my salvation. I loved mycommunity at home. I felt affirmed,

(13:11):
I had friends, I had fun, I had a good life, a
life where I felt protected by myparents, loved by my parents. And
I saw black people carry themselves withdignity every day and show and show up
for their children. So yeah,there were there. You know, there

(13:33):
there's always toxicity and you know thatkind of you know, ratchetness, you
know all of that. You knowthat's part of the neighborhood. You have
that right. You know. Thesewere people, you know, other kids
with normal families who just loved theirchildren and allowed us to play and run
in the streets and do all kindsof things. You know, go down

(13:56):
to weaver Pond and and you know, get urdles and different like you know,
animals and bring them back up,and you know, we just ride
our bikes and it was it was, it was beautiful and it was so
meaningful to me because of the nonbelonging that we felt as part of these

(14:16):
post civil rights, you know,educational programs. Mine was called Project Concern.
So what's really interesting about that program? When I ended, when I
uh was in my junior year Colgateor maybe sophomore year. I don't know
if you all remember Keith Osajima,but doct Osa GiMA was an Yeah,
education loved him. I reconnected withhim for a particular reason. I shouldrot

(14:41):
me tell that story two years ago. But doctor or three years ago.
Doct Osajima, you know, assignedthe final project in one of the classes,
and I actually found research. Thisis it's such a small world.
I found research on my program andhard for Connecticut, which was called Project

(15:01):
Concern. About the testing. Wehad to take these tests every year to
prove that this program was working tobust out these smart black and let you
know, next students to the suburbsto get the better education so they could
become somebody. And I actually foundresearch on that program. And we were

(15:26):
told every year that you test twoand three grades higher than students at your
you know, at your same gradelevel in the public schools. So it
was working in their estimation. Andthis is what makes it even crazier.
When I started teaching at Emrie manyyears after leaving Kolgate, I found out

(15:46):
that one of my ed Studies professorswas the author of that very book at
studies A colleague, she was theauthor of that very book that I had
used in my research paper for doctorOsagmn, Doctor Jackie Irvine. She was
wonderful, wonderful senior colleague, andshe had done all that research we get

(16:07):
out of here. Yeah. Soit's such an interesting world, small world.
How you end up knowing people andmeeting people before you ever even meet
them. Yeah. So you knowthat that discrepancy between my persona, my
experience in those white educational settings,and my experience at home was so it

(16:36):
was so jarring that home became evenmore special. I think, to me,
shout out to Jackie Irvine, educatorwho was before her time. I
went to Emory for graduate school andGina and I both took a course with
doctor Irvine, and definitely shout outto osa Jima because he was definitely had

(17:02):
a great presence in that department andwas a resource for many students. Recent
education was the class, Yes,Jerry, were you in my class?
Because that's the one I took withhim class ninety one, but we may
have passed. He had some classestogether. I have. I have taught
a class well. I first taughtit as a seminar in two thousand and

(17:23):
four called Black Love, and thenI did not teach it for twelve years.
I retaught it in twenty sixteen.The students really needed it. They
were tired, they were active,this oriented. It was a couple of
years after the killing of Trayvon Martin. They were they were depleted, they
were angry. They just needed thatcourse again. So I taught it as

(17:45):
a huge course. One hundred studentsin the course, I mean started it
at forty five and kept having toopen it up because everyone wanted it,
and they were really angry and theywere enraged, and they showed that to
the few white students who were inthe class. It was difficult to navigate.
And I had remembered doctor Osajima hadwritten something that I remembered that I

(18:11):
said, let me go back andlook at it and see if I can
find it. And I did,and so I contacted him just to tell
him how thankful I was. Whathe wrote about his experience of teaching at
Colgate university where the students of colorare often enrage and have no patience for
white liberal guilt or whatever else mightbe on the table right, and the

(18:33):
white students who genuinely, the oneswho would choose to take his course,
genuinely want to know about these experienceand want to grow, want to learn,
but there's this impasse. So hewrote a fabulous essay about classroom dynamics
and how to move beyond that.And so I decided I was going to
sign it for my twenty nineteen class, and I recently I taught the class

(18:59):
again in a twenty twenty three andwe you said, and that was it
was really good. It was agood, inappropriate forward that paper. I
loved you. No I read it. I feel like he wrote a funny
When I contacted him, I said, doctor Osajima, I know you were
talking about me. Hello. No, no, no, yes, you
were talking about me, but wewere piece that. The first paragraph says

(19:23):
that the original names have been changedtoo, as part of our acknowledgment of
the impact of our upper classmen whowere there. A lot of it was
that type of watching upper classmen sayno, no, no, here's what
we are going to stand for here'swhat we're not going to stand for in

(19:45):
this class. And so again aswe talk about how are people who are
in front of us modeling and impactingour journey, that is something that we
consistently acknowledged. Like being in classesand you are freshmen, but then you're
like, you feel in a certainkind of but you see a upper classman
stand up and stand up for y'all, it's like, yeah, that's how

(20:06):
I need to be. I needto be more like that. And so
again that's that's something we want tothank you for. So how did you
hear about Kogate? I went toa recruitment dinner. My mom and I
went together. I don't remember howI learned about that dinner, probably my
guidance counselor. I went to arecruitment dinner and I met Garfield Smith.

(20:26):
He had recently graduated from Coolgate,but he was already on the board,
if I remember correctly, a bigadvocate of at the Gate has already you
know, been a guest. Hewas so compelling. He wanted me to
go to Colgate so badly, andhe actually contacted Tracy Hawks, who was

(20:47):
good friends with him, and said, I've got this high school senior,
Diane Stewart, She's coming up forwe called the sub Frosh Weekend. And
that's why I don't people don't callthat anymore. Yeah, they don't call
it that anymore. But and soI want her to you, and I
want you to convince her to cometo Colgate. And that's how I heard
about it. Visited Colgate and becamereally close friends with Tracy Hutts as well,

(21:08):
because I knew her. I tellpeople all the time, I've known
her since I was seventeen years old. I was seventeen when I met her.
That's dope. Who knew that.Like, I lived in her dorm
room, she hosted me. She'ssuch a beautiful person. She has such
a beautiful and calming spirit, theexact opposite of me. And I'm so

(21:32):
excitable and like, you know,so different. And I just believed her
and I just trusted her, andyeah, she was lovely. But I'm
going to be honest. I meanColgate, I was an alumni, Memorial
scholar, and so basically I meanwhat that means. You know, my
siblings were both attending My two oldersiblings were both attending Ivy League institutions immigrant

(21:55):
Jamaican parents. Yes, my momhad become a nurse for quite some time
by then, at least an LPN. My father was a machine operator at
a ball bearing company. And soyou get this letter that says you have
been chosen as a Cogate Alumni Memorialscholar. And what that meant is whatever
aid I needed, like financial aid, was going to be given to It

(22:18):
was just going to be given tome. No loans, nothing, So,
you know, with my parents havingto pay for two you know,
of course with financial aid, buthaving to pay for two kids already at
these very expensive institutions. I meanthey were paying like a thousand a year
for me to go to Kolgate.Because everything else was covered by that scholarship,
I didn't have to take any loans. I did end up taking loans

(22:41):
when I did study abroad because Iwanted a little bit of extra money in
my bondect on two occasions. Butthere were short, you know, small
loans. But to a ten Colgate, that scholarship covered everything. Yeah,
except you know that little bit ofmy parents contribution. Nice. So were

(23:02):
you part of the o U SSummer? I wasn't. I was not.
I was wondering if you were goingto bring that up. I was
not. And one of the thingsthat really marked my beginnings at Colgate was
being in Stillman Hall, if Iremember correctly, with three white roommates.

(23:22):
There were nice girls, you know, for the most part. I wasn't
so keen on one who happened tome my bunking roommate. But it wasn't
working for me, and I didn'tknow. I didn't have those already built
in relationships that all the other blackstudents had, or a lot of the
black students had, because they hadcome up. And so by December I

(23:45):
had moved into HRC. I waslike, I'm getting out of here.
No, I'm not doing this anymore. No, I had to go.
Yeah, So that was to me. Once I'm into HRC, I was
in the community in a different kindof way, and I felt like,
Okay, I'm it's like I dido Ui, So you lived there,

(24:12):
so remind me again, as youare a ra, where did you live
the other four years? Okay?So after that it was always it was
always HRC and then Bryant because andkeep in mind, I spent a year
away from Kolgate. So I wentI was a ra area YEP, Nigeria

(24:33):
and Mexico, Nicaragua, Guatemala,so ara. When I got back.
So I go to Nigeria first semesterjunior year. I get back and I'm
R and then I'm head resident firstsemester senior year, and then I go
to Mexico. But you know whatelse I was. I don't know if

(24:56):
y'all would remember this. I usedto I used to be one of the
DJs. Hey, night Flight.I do remember this. Remember the Caribbean
for instance, I do remember this, Okay, okay, And then I
remember Michelle was Michelle. You knowshe's so her brother Tony gone to Colgate.

(25:19):
Michelle Spicer. Oh yeah, MichelleSpikes. She had the Easy Light
Sunday morning show, and I sometimesfilled in for her. Yeah, yeah,
wasn't. There's just a name Donna. Donna, Oh yeah, Donna.
She was Caribbean too, Donna becauseshe was Jamaican. Oh yeah.
And Donna had gone to either Chinaor Japan and came right back. She's

(25:41):
like, I couldn't take it.She couldn't take it. She was talking
about how people were talking about hercomplexion. And Donna was a Donna was
a force about love me. Somedonna she was. I feel like she's
a senior Jarreas we're coming in,you mentioned of the organizations and activities.

(26:03):
I know, if I remember correctly, you in so journals? Were you
in so Journals? I was.I wasn't sojourn Nerves for a couple of
years. Okay, but well it'sinteresting. I wasn't sojourn nerds, but
I was never the kind of Christianlike most people who were in Sojourners.
It took me a while to figureit out, and that's kind of why

(26:23):
I left. One, I wasn'ta good singer anyway. I just you
know, I just did it becausethey begged me to do it. And
two, I just didn't have thatkind of background, that kind of strong
evangelical background. You might have thoughtI did because I was in Sojourners,
But it always felt very uncomfortable.It's not an orientation that I really It's

(26:51):
just it wasn't an orientation that Ihad. And I you know, I
wasn't comfortable with certain ways of interpretingthe Bible. And yeah, so anyway,
yeah, so I was for awhile. And then you know,
folks were lovely but yeah, butbut yeah I didn't. I didn't always
align with that kind of Christian evangelicalperspective. Okay, okay, question what

(27:17):
did you would you end up majoringin? How you end up with the
major chose? Oh? I lovedEnglish since I was in high school.
Oh god, I couldn't get enoughof stories, narrative. I love novels,
I love poetry. I wrote poetry. I just loved it. So
I knew I was going to bean English major, and that's what I
did. Now what's interesting is Iwas also officially an African American Studies major.

(27:41):
You all might or might not beaware of this, Like we were
kind of pushing for that and whatended up happening because I think most of
the faculty that could support it seemedto be maybe in the social sciences.
We could not. We didn't haveAfrican American studies on our script. It
literally says social science. It literallysays I'm an English and social science major,

(28:06):
which is so far from the truth. I took very few social science
courses, but that was the waythat our African American Studies major could get
acknowledge on the transcript at that time. Yeah, so what do you when
you look back at those years,how how's your memories of campus life?
Like, what's your recollection of yourfour years? Yeah, I'm bittersweet.

(28:33):
M bittersweet is what I would say. So it was very white and alienating
pockets of profound black solidarity and belonging. So, you know, the bitter
part of it was this environment thatwas normative, that was unwelcoming, that

(28:55):
was unwelcoming to blacks. Because oneof the things about Colgate, which I
think is very different from a lotof other white pwy's, right predominantly white
institutions, it was not liberal.It was not liberal like a lot of
pwy's have a strong liberal bit.I did not. I did not experience
Clogate as liberal. I experienced it. I felt like the liberal whites and

(29:22):
I can't even remember his name,but I don't know if you remember the
one that used to be drumming outsideof the coup all the time, with
the bare feet, Like I feltlike those those people were anomalies, Like
you know, you know, Iwas just taking some notes, just thinking
about things, and the contras,the conservative group called invited the contrasts to

(29:44):
come to campus. The CIA usedto recruit there. They probably still do,
right, So it was, I'llbe honest with you, it took
me twenty years to ever set footback on Colgate's campus. I experienced it
as extremely hostile and onwelcoming, inpart, not just because of things people

(30:04):
did, to be honest with you, just the environment of what it meant
to be in this all white spacewith no concern, really, hardly any
concern, any deliberate attention being givento what it means to be truly diverse,
equal and inclusive. You know whatI mean? Yeah, I mean,

(30:26):
I mean a lot of white peoplewere probably just paying, minding their
business, being white, doing theirthing, not having any direct hostility toward
me. But that contributed to anenvironment that said you don't belong here.
So I it was hard, andthere were racist things that happened, right.
One of the concerns was, andI can't even remember the name of

(30:49):
that particular fraternity, like the racismof these fraternities. I mean, not
to mention even the sexism and therapes of women. Oh my goodnesses,
Lord knows. As an ra youheard everything, right, So, but
the racism of these was it deep? I think it was called deep somebody
had broken in and stolen their notebookand all of the racist stuff that they

(31:12):
You might not have been here yet, it might have been my freshman year,
I don't know, but that wasscary, right, Like the Ku
Klux Klan a chapter not being faraway, Like telling our family and friends
you can't drive up here at night, late at night because they're towns not
too far away from here, thatif your car breaks down, we are

(31:34):
a problem exactly. That was notfun like that. I felt unsafe in
those ways and on alert, youknow. So that was part of the
bitterness of the environment, right.The sweet part was the beauty we had
est a community as a black community, which I think was so special,

(31:57):
and a community of color broader speaking. Broadly speaking, I think was so
special compared to so much of whatI've seen since then. Not just that
I feel like our peers were sobrilliant, Like sometimes when I think of
of course, we were young anddumb, and our brains weren't fully formed
at the time and all of that, But sometimes I just think, God,

(32:21):
we were mature beyond our years attimes. Right. I remember there
was a time after like we graduated, after your class came in Alvin where
they were like, oh, thesestudents are way too radical. They started
clamping down and they were bringing thesestudents that were all assimilated and would would
there was a time when they startedto do that, you know. But

(32:45):
I just like you felt about thoseseniors like Mike Williams and Jerry and Kenny
and I mean Howard. It wasthose seniors were there for me too.
We had we funk, we hadthe Caribbean Students Association, We've had Black
Student Union. I mean it wasit was powerful. And the connections it

(33:07):
wasn't perfect, but the connections andthe support and the remember the book clubs
that Dean Rice would have and youknow, the black women's groups, and
it was that was beautiful and powerful, you know. And and I love
what you said before pockets of solidarity. You know what's so cool about us

(33:30):
doing this aftergate is that as we'rehearing from alone, it's cool to hear
the commonality of what you're describing andkind of seeing this pattern of as you're
able to look at you know,Alvin, thank you, But I want
to thank the Hollyes, the Howardsand then to get those here to hear

(33:52):
them think it is something special.But what we're learning is that that special
news happened decade or so before youknow. And I'll say this, I
feel that even though we legitimately complainedabout the Eurocentric emphasis in the curriculum right

(34:13):
and in individual classes where if anythingblack or brown was mentioned, oh Jenetty,
yes, if anything black or brownwas mentioned, it was like an
afterthought at the tail end or somethinglike that. Those were legitimate protests that
we had against that. I willsay that the education, the quality of
the education was really good. Likethe professors are good pedagogues, they were

(34:37):
good instructors. I can honestly saythat, including to the point of offering
these amazing study of broad programs,you know, so that I would say
that was part of the suite,even you know, when you know,
we didn't want to always be dominatedby these Eurocentric classes. The actual ability,

(34:58):
like the knowledge of the professors hadof their subject areas and their ability
to teach it, to convey it, I think was excellent. I do
think that is I have to saythat. You know, so when you
look back at your four years,what are some of the things you look
upon as accomplishments, as highlights,What are some of those things for you

(35:22):
personally, professionally, academically, whatare some of those things for you?
Well, I tell you Study Abroaddoes stand out for me. You know,
it changed my life. It reallydid change my life. It was
just incredible. I mean, whatI learned in those Study of broad programs
impacted the direction of my studies indoctoral work. Even in my first book,

(35:47):
I actually do theoretical work that wasinfluenced by what I learned in my
Nigeria Study Abroad program. It's unbelievable. The fact that I and I've come
back to Cocate and talked about thisat an official program. The fact that
I realized that white women's studies dominated. I mean I had a strong feminist

(36:13):
or what I would say now womanis consciousness, but I stayed away.
I took one class the psychology ofwomen as a j term class, and
that professor who's no longer at Emory. I looked her up. I tried
to see if I could find her. And she's no longer at Emory,
and I can't remember her name exactly, but I did some digging and I

(36:35):
think I found her. I thinkshe might have actually passed away, if
I remember correctly, But that professorwas open enough to hear me when I
said, I can't relate to anythingthat you're saying about the oppression of women.
And you know, like I grewup in a house where my father
did all the cooking. I wasnever told I can't become anybody. My
mother was dominant. Just you know, I can't relate to these ways that

(37:00):
you're saying girls are raised. Andshe admitted, like, yeah, black
feminism is totally different, and shesaid, I have to be honest,
I really know white feminisms. Butshe let me do my paper on something,
you know, something related to blackfeminism, and I, you know,
just after that, I kind ofstayed away. I just felt like
she was really nice. I reallyliked her, but I just felt like

(37:22):
they can't teach me what I want. And so to know that I really
my first real kind of submergons,like submersion into feminism was in Latin America.
That's powerful to me, like likelike like we were taught by the

(37:43):
Madres Delos steps up out to seethose in Mexico, Like we were taught
feminism and what it is. AndI would say those those lessons were my
true authentic induction into feminism. That'spretty powerful for me. I see that
as an acomplishment. That yep,that was senior spring. The study abroad

(38:05):
had just started and I found outthat a class that I took a medieval
women's literature. I will never forgetit. I still remember what the professor
looks like. One she was agreat professor. She was a young woman,
blonde here. I still remember whatshe looks like. The day I
found out that that class counted fortwo English major requirements, I could go
on study abroad, I was like, I can't believe this. I thought

(38:28):
I was gonna have to stay backand take another class, and I found
out nope, accounts for those tworequirements. I was on my way.
Yeah, the first year of studyabroad to Latin America, and I went
on that one. But but Nigeriaalso freed me, like kind of helped
me with my rage. In termsof being at a white supremacist campus.

(38:49):
I don't mean white supremacists like peoplewearing KKK sheets. I mean, you
know, I don't mean it inthat way, but you know, a
campus that was, you know,deeply rooted in the American tradition of anti
blackness, you know, ultimately,you know, so Nigeria helped me with
that. Nigeria helped me to notsee like the envistiment the man Ralph Ellison
helped the man really didn't see himlike, you know, like literally didn't

(39:14):
see him. But the point isthey never see us. That Geria allowed
me to do that, Like Ijust didn't see them when I got back,
right, I just just didn't didn'tdidn't FaZe me anymore, wasn't enraged
at them, just didn't see him. So those experiences were amazing and really

(39:34):
important accomplishments, you know, reallyimportant. I also, you know,
I worked a lot with doctor PeterBlakean who's now a Politzer Prize winner for
his poetry or many and poet.He was amazing. He was an amazing
mentor very supportive. When doctor PhilipRichards came, I got switched to him,

(39:58):
but doctor blake Ian and invited meto work on the Graham House review
his you know, book of hisjournal of poetry my first year, and
so I felt like that was ahuge accomplishment, like I did it in
my sophomore year, but it wasyou know, through my first year that
that he helped me to do thatthat he, you know, invited me
to do that. I should say, yeah, that was that was nice.

(40:22):
You know, we did, rememberwe did some like we did.
There was one huge like artistic productionthat we put on. And I don't
know how I ended up in allthis stuff. I'm not into I'm not
a dancer, I'm not, butsomehow I worked on this thing that Holly
was always doing stuff and they werealways beautiful. I remember like the Angela
Bofield piece that she would always danceto. I cry, oh, I

(40:45):
try, I try, Oh mygoodness. She was amazing. But there
was one where doctor Josiah Young,who mayadure. My second book is dedicated
to him, Doctor Josiah Young wasIt was like maybe the year right before
he left, Like there was ahuge I still think I have a poster
to it, a huge production andit was something about our roots and our

(41:08):
branches related to our African heritage,where we loved African diaspora. And I
was very involved in the kind oflike planning of that and the scenes and
the settings, and I remember feelingreally good about that. That was a
beautiful production. I felt really reallygood about that. So yeah, I

(41:29):
mean there are probably some other otherhighlights, but yeah, that's a damn
good list. So we're gonna takea pause right there as we show some
love to our sponsor, and thenwe'll come back for part two of this
amazing conversation with Diane Stewart, lastof nineteen ninety. So this episode is

(41:52):
sponsored by Hope Murals. Hope Muralsis a nonprofit that provides adolescent youth with
an interactive experience of creative expression viaan urban arts platform that stimulates both mental
and physical development. Please visit thatwebsite at www dotmurals dot org to learn

(42:12):
more and find ways you can supportthe work they do. Welcome back,
Welcome back, Welcome back. Weare here in the second part of this
conversation with Diane Stewart, class ofnineteen ninety, looking forward to hearing more
about what is her story after thegate. But before we do that,

(42:32):
let's make sure we thank our sponsor. As always, our sponsor is Hope
Murals. Make sure you show somelove to Hope Murals at hopemurals dot org.
Learn more about what they are doingto expose our youth to urban arts,
helping them with their development, characterdevelopment, exposing and teaching and instilling
all of the values that we arelooking for as adults. So keep doing

(42:55):
what you're do with Hope Murals.At Hope Murals, is there media handles,
so show them some love. Areminder, you can find us on
all of your major podcast streaming services, so that's Apple Pods, Spreaker,
Spotify, our Heart. We areall all of them, So like,

(43:15):
subscribe when you are listening so you'llget a heads up when we drop the
next one thirteen hundred hours on Saturdays. Now, let's jump back into our
conversation with Diane. So before wehear more about who you are, Diane,
I would love to get your thoughtson a topic that means a lot.

(43:37):
I'm a parent. I've had thehonor and privilege of raising two amazing,
amazing individuals, right, but Ialso am someone who has been in
education nonprofits and so have seen thevalue and the impact of when parents aren't

(43:58):
there for their children. And howI'm or in parental engagement, parental involvement
advocacy for parents. How important thatis in terms of the outcomes that we
see from our youth. Oh yeah, no, that's great. Yeah,
I want to say that parents mustshow up for their children every day.

(44:23):
Wow. And unfortunately, because ofthe kind of Euro Western patriarchal model that
reigns in this country, the modelof marriage and family, we often the
kinds of kinship connections like extended iswhat's usually talked about. Extended kinship connections

(44:49):
that bring families together so that theycan pull resources is often discouraged. You
know, the nuclear patriarchal family iswhat's idolize, and in fact, black
families were pathologized by the Morning HandReport for example in nineteen sixty five.
It's a result of having diverse andflexible family structures. So I say this

(45:14):
knowing that not all parents have theresources to truly show up for their children
every day, and that's where extendedfamilies can help. But it's really really
important. As a professor, Isee a lot of young people eighteen to
twenty two especially, and I canseparate them by those whose parents showed up

(45:39):
for them every day and those whodid not, and for those whose parents
did not a lot of times,you know, especially with our black and
brown students, we as faculty endup filling in and really trying to help
those students heal and become whole andit's tough, it's taxing, and so

(46:06):
yeah. I had a cousin oncewho asked me, because I'm kind of
like the talker in my family,who asked me at a funeral. You
know, funerals are great because they'rereally for the living, right, They're
really for the living, and theydo a lot of work. I mean,
they can bring out all that toxicitytoo, but they do a lot
of healing work. And she wassaying, you know, you kids are

(46:28):
just so respectful of your parents,and you're so this, and you're so
that, you're always so polite inyour Why did you become like that?
And I was like, Aunt Emily, you know how I became like this?
Thank you first of all. Butyou know how I became like this,
And I really had thought about it. My parents and they never lied

(46:50):
to us. I always knew wherethey were, and they showed up for
us every day. That's how Ibecame like this. And I cannot underestimate
how important those three things are.It instills in your child a sense of
protection, a sense of confidence thatyou're always there for them if something should

(47:17):
happen, if they should need something, they know how to reach you.
They know you're there, that loveand that care. I don't know if
you all remember this, you might. It might have been my freshman year
actually, but my father came upone of the Kolgate years to cook with
all those Caribbean moms for one ofthe Caribbean Students Association dinners. I told

(47:43):
you he did all the cooking growingup. He did all the cooking,
but my mom worked a lot,a lot more than he did, so
he did all the cooking and henever had an issue with that. He
was the only father in that kitchenwith all those Caribbean moms cook all the
way up to Kolgate to do that. And that's part of showing up for

(48:06):
me even while I was in college. So yeah, I think it's really
important. And as I said,I can separate students and tell you the
difference between those two types of students. Shout out to all of those parents
who show up for their kids,and shout out my co hosts who done
moved Miami to show up for hisdaughter in her life. And so like

(48:30):
I whan I think about you know, you describing what your father did for
his daughter. I look at myco hosts who moved down to the southern
state and been down How long you'vebeen down there? Brother right so to
be closer to his daughter, sobeautiful parents. Whatever it takes, whatever

(48:52):
it takes. If you're a businesslooking to get your brand in front of
a loyal, supportive, successful market, you need to become a sponsor of
Aftergate. Our network recognizes the opportunityto work with Cogate's a lum of color
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Reach out to the Defile Life podcastnetwork and we will work with you

(49:15):
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(49:38):
Contact us to learn more about howwe can benefit you. Let's talk about
your journey since Cocate, I'd lovefor you to spend some time walking us
through what your life has been likeonce you graduate Colgate? How did you
get to be the amazing person youare now? Thank you? So you

(50:02):
know, it's pretty boring in somerespects, pretty poor, you know,
really pretty boring and pretty simple.Like I was one of those people,
you know, I didn't know anythingabout a gap year or gap years.
I was one of those people thatjust went straight on to grad school,
straight on to grad school again.Right. So I left Colgate nineteen ninety

(50:24):
and I enrolled. I was acceptedinto Harvard Divinity School, and I studied
there for three years. So Idid do the Master of Divinity degree there.
But the reason I decided to doit is because I was an English
major at the undergrad level. Iwas not a religion major, and I
knew that I wanted to go onand become a professor of religion, and

(50:45):
I felt like I needed that extrayear to get more courses in. When
I looked at what was required,you know, the required courses in what
you kind of needed to prepare todo a PhD in religion or theological studies,
I I just felt like I needthe three year degree. So I
did that, and I think thatalso helped me to graduate in four years

(51:06):
with my PhD. So from Harvard, I applied for well, I should
probably say this, I applied it'sfunny. I only wanted to go to
Union Theological Seminary. And in fact, let me tell you the honest truth
about this, I wanted to goto Union, but keep in mind,
I'm in Mexico. Decided to goto Mexico last minute on the study of

(51:28):
broad program. So I'm navigating somuch of this from Mexico. So you
know, I wanted to go toUnion because that's where doctor Josiah Young went
and he was like my mentor.And even though I was an English major,
I took every course he talked took, So I took like five courses
with him. And then doctor Sandematoo, I took some courses with him.

(51:50):
Well, actually I took an independentstudy with him, but was very
much influenced by him. And sobecause he went there and worked with James
Cohne, that's where I wanted togo for my masters, and I thought
I would stay on for my PhD. But Union required the GRE and I
was in Mexico. I couldn't takeit. So I had to apply the

(52:12):
schools that didn't require the GRE.And so that's why I ended up ultimately
at Harvard, Harvard Chandler, andPrinceton and I ended up there was some
paperwork I needed to fill out forCanada. I couldn't do it because I
was in Mexico. This was beforeall of this internet and all this stuff.
And so I ended up visiting Princetonand prisoning Harvard when I got back,

(52:32):
and I loved Harvard and I wentthere and I thoroughly enjoyed my education
there. I really did so,and it was time to like apply,
you know, to go on tograd school again for my PhD. My
advisor I was gonna apply to Unionand that was it. Like I didn't
want to go anywhere else. Andhe was like, well, you shouldn't
just apply to one school. Iwas like, really, you know,

(52:52):
I just I wanted to go toUnion. I wanted to work with James
Gohe And so I said, wellwhere else should I apply? He said
here? First of all. Iwas like, Okay, that's a good
sign. White male professor telling meto apply here. Okay, good sign.
So I did, and he,you know, we were thinking about
other schools, Vanderbilt, Boston,you know where else. But I only
applied to Union and Harvard, andI got into both. I got into

(53:14):
both, and it was hard becauseHarvard gave me a lot of money relative
to Union, and so but Ichose Union, and I don't regret it.
I don't regret it. I don'tthink either would have been a bad
choice. I either would have worked, but I did choose to go to
Union. And then I finished mydegree in four years. So I earned

(53:36):
my PhD at the age of twentyeight. I love saying that, but
I turned twenty nine three weeks later, to be fair, you know.
And I always I get on mybrother all the time. It's so funny.
It's like this running joke because hewas at Moorhouse College at the time.
I sent them there because he wantedto go into sciences, and I'm

(53:59):
like, you will not get outat a PW. You are going to
an HBCU. He's the first personin my family to go to an HBCU
and the only so far in theimmediate family. So graduate, Yeah,
more husband, But he took foreverto get out, you know. So
he decides to get out the yearof my first year of teaching as a

(54:22):
professor, and I was so proudof myself that I was going to be
walking in my robe as the professorat twenty nine. I didn't even hit
thirty yet, and that's the yearmy brother chose to graduate finally, and
so I had to miss my graduationat McAllister College go to Morehouse. So
I never got to walk in myrobe and still be twenty nine on a

(54:44):
faculty. It's silly, but itwas. You know. I was pretty
proud of myself to be able toearn my PhD at twenty eight. I
was pretty proud of myself. Where'dyou go from there? Yeah? I
taught at mcousal College. And mymy big like story about that is that
I taught at McAllister College, whichhas a pretty strong black international population.

(55:09):
They've they've been known for internet,you know, bringing international students. I
was there at a time when DeniaGira was at McAllister College, and Deny
was the head of the military wingin Black Panther. She is on those
vampire shows. She's got this newseries out now that I saw my niece

(55:30):
watching the other day, you know. So I don't know if you remember
her though, you know, shewas always next to Lupita and Jongo,
you know, with the where theythey had those wigs and they took them
off. So Deny was a studentat McAllister. The year I was there,
I was on a visiting assistant professorship, and I used to tell her,
you are so talented. I usedto go see her place and oh,

(55:52):
my goodness, you're going places,and she really has. So that's
that's something I always I always liketo say about at McCallister experience. So
I did that, and then Igot a tenure trick job at the College
of the Holy Cross in Worstern,Massachusetts. I was there for three years
officially, although the teaching note wasso hot. It was three three really

(56:14):
hard, really hard, to behonest that I just knew I couldn't stay,
And as soon as I saw somethingopen up, I applied for it.
So because the teaching mode was sohard, what they did do was
they gave faculty a junior leave inthe third year. So they did do
that, so I was on leavethe year I applied for a job at

(56:35):
Vanderbilt Divinity School and at Emor University. I got both jobs, and there
was a little bit of a war, like a little bit of back and
forth. You know, oh,well, we'll give you this money,
we'll give you that money. Trustme, it wasn't that much. You
know, it wasn't that much.It was still low. But but I
did decide to go to Emory.I mean, it was Atlanta. I'm

(56:57):
a city girl. You know,there's no way I was gonna pass up
Atlanta. Yahy. So I endedup at Emery in two thousand and one
and I've been here ever since.Yeah, it's been I think this year
is my twenty third year at Emory. Wow. Wow, Wow, that's
that's great journey. So let meask you this. If you think about

(57:23):
there's a question on perspective. Soif you think about Diane who is entering
Coldgate, what would be some ofthe words of advice you would give that
Diane as well as the Diane who'sgraduating Colgate. Would be some of the
words of advice you'd give that Diane. Wow, that's a good one.

(57:44):
So I probably would say to theDiane who was entering Coldgate, um to
find a way not to get distractedby the the the the sense of not

(58:07):
belonging to the wider Polgate environment.In other words, like emotionally distracted.
Don't get so emotionally wrapped up inthat. Remember your purpose and your path
and and focus on that just alittle bit more then I thought I was

(58:28):
able to while I was there,So I think it would be that.
Yeah, I think it would bethat. How about the oh wow,
don't get married too soon? Taketime. Yeah, don't get married too

(58:50):
soon. Something I did too soon? Yeah, take your time. Yeah,
got you, got you, gotyou. Our last question tunity.
It's for you to share any initiativewebsite a way for people to reach out
to you. Really, it's justa way for you to put in the

(59:14):
Colgate Aftergate listeners ears something that isimportant to you as we try to leverage
our network to get more awareness andsupport of things that are important to some
of our guests. So if there'sanything that you'd like to throw out there,
here's an opportunity to plug. Iwill give my personal website. I

(59:36):
mean, you can find my professionalwebsite. Adamrie. I'm a joint faculty
member in the Religion Department, whichis my home department, and the Department
of African American Studies. I've alwaysbeen joined since we were a program,
and we actually became a department undermy leadership, not a department. Sorry.
We actually launched our PhD program undermy leadership in tw twenty twenty two

(01:00:00):
to twenty twenty three. That's somethingI'm very proud of. So two things
I would say. You know,I ended up studying theology with an emphasis
on global liberation theologies. But whatI found as I did my work,
you know, in my field oftraining, I'm so much more than that.

(01:00:23):
Right now, I will call myselfa transdisciplinary Africana religious studies scholar right
now, but who studies the religiousimagination of Black people. So there's a
theological element there. But what Iwould say is that because liberation theology so
deeply pays attention to the experiences ofour enslaved ancestors, for those from the

(01:00:47):
you know, regions of the Africandiaspora, our enslaved ancestors, and their
orientation to the divine, I foundthat the African heritage religions were often left
out, and I felt like,you know, most of our training and
our socialization, even in our religiousupbringing, is such that they don't matter.
But one of the things I rememberedfrom the classes I took with doctor

(01:01:09):
Young is that that's exactly why weare who we are, and exactly why
we've been able to sustain ourselves andeven when our ancestors finally did begin to
convert to Christianity in high numbers,which was very close to the Civil War.
Quite frankly, even when they did, they did that through and a

(01:01:30):
kind of Africana orientation, right.So I have spent a lot of my
professional life trying to bring visibility toAfrican heritage religions and their import for our
spiritual, emotional, physical survival andhealth and thriving in the African diaspora.

(01:01:52):
We're living at a time when theearth is crying out and saying, please
be relational with me. We area part of nature, and African heritage
religions, as indigenous religions, aregrounded in that understanding. So I tell
my students it's not just about beingholistic and inclusive in terms of truly understanding

(01:02:15):
Black people's religious heritages. It's thefact that these traditions, like other indigenous
religions, have something to teach usright now in our ecological crisis, in
a time when our world is dyingliterally, they actually have so much to

(01:02:35):
teach us. So I do thatwork, you know, and I've even
you know, joined with doctor TracyHawks, another col Gatlum to co publish.
I mean we've co published several articles, and we did a two volume
book project. She wrote volume one, I wrote volume two. The other
thing that I want to just justshare because this is a real passion project

(01:02:58):
for me along my I'm working onmy fourth book right now, And in
fact, I should also share thatI'm a shared professor at Emory University.
I'm not just the professor. I'mthe Samuel Kando Doabbs Professor of Religion and
African American Studies because I have beenreally committed to research, and you know,
I think receiving that honor was wasreally another one of those accomplishments that

(01:03:22):
meant a lot to me because itvalidated that commitment to the research. And
I feel that, especially the kindsof things I research, it's not easy
to get validated for the kinds ofthings I research. But out of my
teaching of that Black Love course thatI mentioned earlier, I have a section

(01:03:42):
in the course on love and romanceand marriage, and my experience with the
social science data historical information about thehistory of black love and marriage in this
country led me to write a publicface book called Black Women, Black Love,
America's War on African American marriage.And I argue in that book that

(01:04:09):
I coined the term forbidden Black love. And I argue that forbidden Black love
is America's hidden, unrecognized, hiddencivil rights issue. It is not just
a personal issue. What I dois I look at this issue from the
perspective of Black women. Cisgendered heterosexualwomen want to marry Black men, which

(01:04:36):
are millions and can't and can't buyfor no fault of their own. And
I look at the systemic and structuralunderpinnings of the Why right, why are
there only twenty four percent of Blackwomen married in America at time of survey
for twenty nineteen. Right? Whyis that the case? And it really

(01:04:59):
starts in West Africa, on theWest coast of Africa, with the separation
of families there. So we don'toften think of love and marriage when we
think of the slave trade, butfamilies are being separated right there through the
slave trade, and it continues.So I talk about forbidden Black Love as
the systemic and structural forces that makelove, coupling, and marriage difficult,

(01:05:24):
delayed, or impossible for millions ofBlack people. And that's what that book
is about. It's my way ofsaying it's not okay, it's not enough
to just do self help work,and black women take the base out of
your voice, go to the gym, you know, whatever, you know,
stop being hard, whatever it is. Right, Like black women can
follow all that advice and two ofthem will get married. Right. This

(01:05:47):
is a systemic issue. And soI take readers from the slave periods of
social media and really address that andlook at slavery. I look at what
I call the Reign of Terror eighteensixty five to nineteen sixty five. I
do things like look at lynching andits impact on love and marriage and family
relationships, something we're never really encouragedto do. I look at when blalack

(01:06:10):
women were entering welfare programs in largenumbers, look at mass incarceration, and
then I look at what's going ontoday. Those cross those five chapters.
So and I try to raise awarenessof this issue as a civil rights issue.
This Supreme Court, the Supreme Courtof this nation, has a firm

(01:06:32):
marriage as a civil right in morethan a dozen cases since the eighteen eighties.
And if we don't look at thisissue as a civil rights issue,
we will never solve it. Sothat's something that's really dear to me.
I'm working on the second volume nowand it's going to be the last volume.
But I really want to take onthings like these commercials where you can
never see a black couple together.I want to take on the passport bros.

(01:06:56):
I want to take on the divestment, the black women who are divesting
from black men. I want to, you know, take on a number
of issues to say we've got todo this better. Yeah. But in
the first book, I talk aboutfour pillars of Forbidden Black Love, and
I hope you know, your listenersfeel curious to at least investigate and find

(01:07:17):
book. Yeah, they can getit anywhere everywhere on my website, Diane
M. Stewart and Diane has twoends, Dianemstewart dot com has every They
can just click on it seal Press. But you can find it on Amazon
if you go there. You canfind it at Walmart, you can,
you know, it's everywhere. Targetyou name it. Just type it in

(01:07:40):
Black Women, Black Love and itwill come up and you can you can
order it. And it's also anaudiobook and Kindle after gate. Listeners,
please show so love, you know, I gotta just you know, shout
out my wife and I who areexperiencing our twenty ninth year of marriage.
Yes, that love that. Pleasesay hello to Gina. He's so sweet.

(01:08:03):
I've always loved Gina. Definitely,I will definitely pass a love.
So any final words before we getout of it, just that this is
really beautiful. I mean one ofthe things I feel. I didn't get
to say this, but in twentyeighteen, I was a scholaring residence at
Colgate. I've gone back to Colgateabout four times now. Once I went

(01:08:25):
up there in twenty twenty years aftergraduating, I have gone back about four
times, and it's been wonderful,absolutely wonderful every time. I've done a
couple of events online for Colgate aswell. But being that scholar and residence
was lovely and engaging with the studentsat the Culture Center. You know,
it just told me that as difficultas Colgate can be and isolating and you

(01:08:51):
know, and alienating in that experience, there is something about the black experience
there that tethers us together across time, and there is a spirit of support
that I find so inspiring that Ikeep seeing every time I go back.

(01:09:15):
So I felt that tonight. Youknow, I definitely felt that tonight,
and I just think the fact thatyou have this podcast and really try to
bring in so many of us acrossthe different classes and to reconnect us is
just wonderful. So I really appreciatedthe time with you all tonight. Well,
we have certain phrases that have lastedover episodes, right, so we

(01:09:39):
got Diane's phrase of sitting around thekitchen table, we got Wendy Perdermo's phrase
of amplifying our journeys. I justwrote down tethering us together, so listeners,
you might hear that one again becauseI just think that's a beautiful way
to phrase what I've been trying todescribe as me and Jerry have been experiencing

(01:10:02):
this heathering of us together. Soyou know, again before we got here,
again, thank you. It's amazingto hear, and it's great to
hear how you are showing up inthis world in a way that we described
in the beginning, like you werethat person then, and so it's nice
to see that you are continuing tobe a great steward of who what we

(01:10:27):
learned, what was poured into us. Apparently though it seems like you were
getting stuff poured into you before youbecame on campus. That's pretty obvious as
well, right, So just agood good to hear who you are in
this world and it's nice to knowwe were there together. So on that
note, let's officially take us outof here. This has been an amazing
show. This has been another episodeof Aftergate season four. Thank you to

(01:10:51):
our guests, Thank you to ourlisteners. After Gate is always powered by
the Defile Life Network. Make sureyou check out all of our future podcast
on all of your favorite podcast streamingplatforms. We got many more dope episodes
that follow. And remember that thecoviate of your day is not the cogate
of today, and it's certainly notthe cogate of the future. Peace family.

(01:11:17):
You hear that, listen closer thatmy friend is the definitely side of
focus. It drowns out all theuseless noise that can clutter the only nay
sayers don't exist, haters, smaters, the peanut gallery. Who's that When
you're in your zone, all thatnoise and all that buzz is just elevator

(01:11:39):
music. So enjoy your journey,focus on your goal in basque, in
the choiet role that is progressed,Because when it's your time to shoot that
shot, spit that verse, orclose that deal, the only voice that
matters, it's yours. The firelife