Ep. 33: Save The Marsh

"I'm only one person so I can't make a difference...said eight billion people." "A society grows great when old men plant trees in whose shade they know they shall never sit."

Both of these quotes came up during this great conversation between Jesse Deubel, Matthew Monjaras, Justin Trussell and Anthony Lucero. This dynamic group discusses a variety of topics including waterfowl hunting, water management, habitat conservation and the importance of educational outreach. All four of these friends have shared time working in the conservation space and all four have enjoyed the fruits of their labor pursuing game together in the field. This episode includes a summary of the successes had by the New Mexico Wildlife Federation and Impact Outdoors in 2023. The group also forecasts the remainder of the hunting season and brainstorms about the challenges facing the conservation community in the year ahead. Happy New year and enjoy the listen!

For more info:
NMWF website
Impact Outdoors

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Hello everybody. Jesse Dubell here,Welcome to another episode of the IVAP podcast.
It's mid December right now, it'sa Thursday. Last night, the
New Mexico Wildlife Federation hosted Wildlife Wednesday, as we do the second Wednesday of
every month, and last night ourtopic was all things waterfowl, and we
had an unbelievable turnout of amazing outdoorsfocused people that wanted to come out and

(00:24):
either learned waterfowl for the very firsttime or perhaps hone their skills for those
seasoned waterfowl hunters. But after Imissed most of the event because I was
at a court hearing. We mighttalk a little bit more about that as
we get into the show. ButI was at a court hearing down in
Truth or Consequences, so I missedthe majority of the event. But it
was an unbelievable presentation from everything I'veheard from audience members, so I want

(00:48):
to recap the presentation a little bit. But also I was fortunate enough to
round up a crew of attendees fromlast night that I first met I don't
know about first met, but thatI had the opportunity to spend time with
in the field gosh. I guessat different times I've enjoyed the outdoors with

(01:08):
all of these gentlemen. I don'tknow for certain if we've all been on
the same hunt at the same timetogether, we might not have. But
I've definitely been been fortunate to spendtime with each of these people together at
two or three at a time,and maybe individually. But I'm going to
allow these guys to introduce themselves.We've got a really dynamic group today of

(01:29):
very very involved, very passionate andenthusiastic hunters, anglers, conservation stewards.
So this is gonna be a lotof fun and I'm super excited. The
New Mexico Wildlife Federation presents the YahivaPodcast. I'm gonna go ahead and get
started with you, Anthony. Sowe've got Anthony Lucero joining us, and

(01:52):
Anthony, you want to tell theaudience a little bit about you, maybe
how we met and the work youdo in the outdoor space. Yeah,
thanks for having me on, Jesse, definitely a privilege to be on here.
Excited, So a little bit aboutme, my conservation journey. He
kind of started since I was akid, grew up doing a you know,

(02:13):
basic hunting and fishing with my unclesand father and grandfathers. But what
really drove me in the direction thatI'm kind of headed on right now,
which is more of an educational standbywhen it comes to conservation, was joining
up with Matt years ago and beingprivileged enough to go on some of these

(02:36):
events with him. And it startedon an event where we took out the
total of ten veterans over a courseof five days. Again it was a
big learning experience. We were stillfilling out the waters. We finally figured
out two five days is maybe alittle too long. But in terms of
hunts, I think you and I, Jesse met years ago on a hunt

(03:01):
with the Powell family on some privateproperty and it was a goose hunt and
it was specifically remember that hunt,just because I was late to that hunt
and you know, going through corralsto meet up with another individual who was
going on that hunt got pulled over, thank god, and nothing bad happened.

(03:22):
But through those experiences, it reallyhas driven me to become more involved
with what impacts mission is actually become, which is not only outdoor education but
engaging veterans, but also at theend of the day, you know,
doing these wetland conservation projects, andthat in itself is what I really take

(03:49):
pride in now, is I getto see full cycle of just the events
that we hold and then coming backyears later and seeing all the work that
we've done, and then getting tosee that ecosystem flourish once again, just
by doing these wetland conservation projects thatwe do with our veterans, and then

(04:12):
even the outdoor classrooms that we dowith the youth man. That's awesome,
Anthony. I remember that hunt.I remember it like it was yesterday.
In fact, we talked about ita little bit last night. It brought
up some really wonderful memories. Thatwas a great time. I'm looking forward
to getting back out to that locationagain and doing it again. For those
listeners who don't live in New Mexicoor maybe aren't familiar with Corrals, Corals

(04:32):
is a little village in the Albuquerquemetro area, and when you enter,
there's just one main road through thevillage. But when you enter Corrals there's
a great big sign. Anthony mustnot have read it, but it says
drive slow, see our village,drive fast, see our judge. So
Anthony, you're lucky you got offeasy man, because they even gave you

(04:53):
a written warning on the sign.So the warning they issued you at they
pulled you over, that was thesecond written warning. The first one was
the bill. So awesome. Yeah, man, thanks for the introduction.
This next individual who's joining us oneof the most impressive young men I've had
the opportunity to hunt with. Ifirst hunted with him almost a year ago.

(05:15):
I think it was January of lastwell of this year, I think.
Anyway, it's January, and wewent out on a waterfowl hunt and
he had the coolest boat I'd everseen, like a flat bottom skiff with
a super raked out propeller that allowedit to float in really minimal amount of
water. And launching that boat wassomething I'll never forget. And getting the

(05:38):
boat out of the river when you'redealing with these mere vertical embankments and it
was a process, but it wassuper super fun. Anyway, that guy's
name is Justin, and Justin,why don't you go ahead and tell the
audience a little bit about yourself?Man, Oh, thanks for having me
on. It's looking forward to it. My name is Justin. As he

(05:58):
said, I'm just an addict towaterfowl hunting. That's probably the best way
to describe me. I just forthis college. But you know, during
college, I would very regularly eithernot make class or hunt before class.
And I would say for the lastthree or four years, I've been hunting
like three or four times a week, like NonStop, just on the go.

(06:20):
So I started doing a lot withMatt for the nonprofit because I kind
of find on the place that Icould fit in where you know, he
is really good about organizing people andgetting vets in the field and stuff,
and I'm really good about getting peoplein the exact spot that needed to be
to have a really good successful hunt. And so the two of us together
make a really good team because wecan be really successful and then the vets

(06:43):
can still have a good place tostay and not be forced to sleep in
their truck or stuff like that thatI would do. So it's been really
fun to work with him and takesome people out that wouldn't get the opportunity
to go out otherwise. And itwas really fun. And I met Jesse,
like he was saying, on ahunt where we actually took the Senator
out in in my mon it wasit was really fun, but I'm glad

(07:03):
to say I have a Neuwe boat. Now that's a little bit less rickety
dude, that that boat was.That boat will forever have a place in
my heart. Man. Uh,I love that boat. And yeah,
that that hunt with We were withSenator Heinrich and some other people. We
were with one of my now boardmembers, Jason Kirkman's and his brother joined
us on that help. We hada pretty big group of guys and it

(07:25):
was just a ton of fun andmost of us couldn't shoot straight. You
know, we uh, we keepthe steel shot manufacturers in business because you
know, at least on that particularhunt, we averaged probably three shots for
every bird we were able to getdown. But it was so many laughs
and and just camaraderie and uh fellowshipand just sharing time and stories and all

(07:47):
that stuff. It was magnificent.And both Anthony and Justin keep referring to
Matt And for those who who aren'taware, they're talking about Matthew mohattas the
founder and president of Impact Doors.Matt's been on the show talking exclusively and
specifically about Impact out Doors, andthey're up to some incredible things. I

(08:07):
might be mistaken but I think Mattis the first guest of this show to
make a repeat appearance. You know, Jeremy Romero recently had a two part
episode where we talked about his backcountryl hunt. But I think Matt's the
first repeat guest on the show,and I'm super super happy to have you
back. Matt, you want youwant to remind folks who you are or

(08:30):
introduce yourself to those folks who mightnot already be familiar with you in the
program. Thank you Jesse for invitingus all on here and getting us involved.
This podcast was great last time,and I'd imagine this is going to
be even better. My name's Matthewand Hottis. I'm the founder and director
of Impact out Doors. We startedImpact out Doors roughly about we're going on

(08:54):
five years ago. We're a nonprofitthat's focused on improving conservation efforts in our
rural communities. Were also focused onoutdoor education. We're focused on veteran outreach
active military first responders. Essentially,what the program does is we work with
landowners and we provide outdoor education foryouth in rural communities where they work on

(09:20):
habitat improvements, data collection, biodiversitycounts, they return for multiple engagements at
the location of improvement. They seethe organisms that are using the habitat that
they've improved, They see the organismsthat they intended to use that habitat,
and then they also see the organismsthat they didn't really expect. After a

(09:41):
series of engagements, they returned fora mentor hunt or an angling opportunity over
the habitat that they've improved. Andthe other facet of Impact Outdoors is those
same habitat improvement locations and private landswe frequent with our nation's veterans as a
way of saying thank you for thefreedom that we have in this country.

(10:03):
And so we have youth working onhabitat, and we have veterans attending those
habitats for successful harvest, whether itbe turkey or pronghorn or waterfowl, which
is my favorite. And then wealso provide a community of veterans serving veterans
where maybe you're not comfortable behind agoose call, but you're a welder and

(10:28):
the military tatcha how to weld,or they taught you how to drive a
tractor and big equipment, Well,we got a place for you here at
Impact Outdoors because We're constantly working onmarshland development, the promotion of aquatic vegetation.
A lot of the communities that wefrequent our post fire communities, and
so we're dealing with a lot ofturbidity and carbon and the efforts that we

(10:54):
do with our veterans, active military, first responders, families, kids,
volunteers promote the filtration of that carbonin those communities. We also work on
erosion control, we work on marshlanddevelopment and handicap accessibility. All of our
workshops are geared to be mutually beneficial. We want our landowners to benefit from

(11:20):
our presence on their properties. Soanything from water retention for when our landowners
are without water for seed germination,you know, anything like that, erosion
control, different things like that.And along the way we just meet some
incredible people that all have different strongfacets that they bring to the table here

(11:43):
at Impact, And we're not aone and done program. We are very
proud of our retention rates and ourreactivation rates. We have folks that continue
to come back and work workshop afterworkshop. I remember one day it was
one hundred and three degrees outside andit was the first property I ever started

(12:07):
to manage it was my very firstproperty, and it turned out that that
property didn't really fit the conservation missionthat we had for a couple of reasons.
But it was one hundred and threedegrees and I looked at Anthony and
he was running a road to tillerin the middle of a desert, and
he was there to give me ahand with that. And I'm really glad

(12:30):
that we walked from that property.But Anthony's kind of seen the mission,
and I think the mission of whatwe're doing has given Anthony an avenue to
grow. And at the same time, I'm growing, and our mission has
grown and our capabilities have grown.We went from two hundred and fifty acres
to ninety seven thousand acres of privateland across the state that we utilized for

(12:54):
our veterans and youth. And alongthe way, you know, I bumped
into Justin because Justin he's mad atthe ducks, like he's how I was
when I was his age, andall I thought about was the marsh and
co relationships and birds and you know, all those things. And I right
now, I'm a father. Igot two boys, ones three ones one,

(13:18):
and so I don't really get allthat time out and So it's been
really great meeting these two guys alongthe way and just what Impact does to
bring everyone together, including you JesseSo yeah, yeah, Founder director Impact
Outdoors. We're continuing to work onmarshland development and habitat improvements while including our

(13:41):
youth and veterans and the resources thatare found in their backyards across New Mexico.
Hey, thanks for all that,Matt. You know I've talked about
Impact out There was quite a biton this show, and one of the
things I talked about a lot isthe impact you have on veterans and your
influence on our young people, andof course what you do for habitat,
and then there's so much involved therethe advocacy, but more and more,

(14:03):
I'm impressed by the remarkable community thatyou've been able to build. I mean,
the community of people, and itjust grows and grows every time we
get together, every time you know, we do an event, whether indoors
or outdoors. I see the communityjust expanding and growing, and it's so
fantastic to witness and Anthony and Justinare just two representatives of that community.

(14:26):
There's so many others. I mean, we could if there was enough time
and bandwidth in the Internet. Wecould have one hundred people on who are
all passionate about the work that ImpactOutdoors is doing. But it's awesome.
And Anthony and Justin you've probably heardthe story before, but one of the
earlier projects I guess you could saythat Matt and I worked on together was

(14:50):
Camo at the Capitol, which iswhich I know Anthony you were there last
year. Justin, I can't rememberif you were there or not, or
if you've participated, but it's anevent that we do every year at the
state Capitol during the legislative session,where we work as hard as we can
to get as many hunters and anglersto show up at the Roundhouse at the

(15:11):
same time on a particular day,and we encourage everybody to wear their favorite,
you know, representative outdoor gear,whether that's your you know, favorite
fishing shirt or your gilly suit oryour waterfowl waiters or whatever. Just show
up in camouflage. Because what we'retrying to do with Cameo at the Capital
is really illustrate to our state lawmakers, the people who legislate the statutes that

(15:35):
govern the activities that we all careso much about. We're trying to show
them that we're here, we're engaged, we show up, we care,
we vote, and that our issuesmatter and that they need to pay attention.
And when we when we ask forsomething, you know, we really
appreciate the opportunity to have conversations withthese decision makers and to engage. And

(15:56):
when we show up as a big, united community, it's super helpful.
And the amount of influence that wehave as a collective group is so much
greater than any one person would haveas an individual, and so it's a
ton of fun. We're working onscheduling this upcoming cameo at the Capitol right
now. I should have a datein the next couple days, and I'll

(16:18):
certainly loop all you guys in andwe can share it on social media and
hopefully this year, twenty twenty fourwill be our largest turnout ever for this
cameo at the Capital event. Thisupcoming legislative session is a short budget session.
We've only got thirty days that thelegislature will be in session up in
Santa Fe at the Roundhouse. Butone of those days we're going to basically

(16:41):
flood the Roundhouse with camo clad outdoorsmen and women. So I'm looking forward
to that event. And I mentionedall that because Matt was essentially very early
on in his development of Impact Outdoorswhen I'd asked him if he would be
willing to come and share what he'sdoing in his work with our group,

(17:02):
and there's an opportunity to use therotunda with the podium and the microphone and
speak to the all of the attendees. And we generally have legislators and the
director of Game and Fish and ourstate wildlife biologists and all those people there
present for those presentations, and Mattprovided to our audience a really powerful and

(17:22):
heartfelt message that resonated with the group. And what the organization has done from
that time till now is really reallyimpressive, almost impressive, almost as impressive,
justin as your recent accomplishment man graduatingcollege you mentioned in an introduction that's
fantastic, dude to congratulations, that'shuge, super super proud of you.

(17:48):
And if I understood your dad correctly, last night I was having a little
conversation with your dadd He was prettyfrustrated because he loves big game hunting so
much, and he said he can'tdistract you away from waterfowl long enough to
get you real excited about some ofthe big game opportunities that exist here.
But we were talking about you alittle bit behind your back, and I'm

(18:08):
not sure if I understood them correctly, but if I did, it sounded
like you had an unbelievable schedule ofhunting adventures coming up over the next couple
of weeks or months. Do youwant to talk a little bit about what
the forecast looks like for you,man, Yeah, for sure. I
think. Actually we're nearing the endof my calendar. I've been busy all

(18:33):
year. I actually did like youwere saying, that I had big game
hunts. I got pretty lucky.I got drawn for an archrianlo punt and
I missed at forty five yards.That was in August. And then I
did a float trip with my dadup in Idaho. We have some family
up there, and so we putin the south fork of the Snake River
right below Palatines. Damn. Wefloated and we camped on the river for

(18:56):
a night. So you throw allyour gear in the boat. You just
have everything you need. Catching bigrainbow trout and really nice yellowstone cutthroats.
I believe they were and it wasan amazing trip. And right after that,
I had an archery elk hunt,second archery hunt, and I actually
did in fact leave early to godove hunting because the dove hunting was so

(19:17):
good. So there is some truthto what my dad says. But anyway,
now the duck season's in full swingpretty soon here. Right after Christmas,
I am headed to New York tohunt with Mike Katz, who actually
came through the Impact Program and heoffered to have me out this year to
come hunt with him. So I'llbe hunting off of Long Island in New

(19:40):
York, and I'm super excited forthat. It should be really fun.
We should be shooting maybe some scoters, some brand I don't know, all
sorts of stuff. Now. Igot to go last year and so I
am very excited to go this year. And then two or three years ago,
I had a really good friend thatI hunted with a lot here in
New Mexico and he going to WesternNew Mexico State and he moves back home.

(20:03):
He's from North Carolina, and soI called him up. I was
like, hey, I'm coming outthat way, Like, is there any
way we can squeeze in some hunts, and he was like, yeah,
sure, So I'll be hunting thePalm Coo Sound in North Carolina shooting sounds
like lots of redheads, all sortsof different diver ducks and other stuff that
I don't really ever target here.So I'm pretty excited. It should be
really fun. Yeah, that soundslike a pretty epic trip, you know.

(20:29):
I followed along as Matt's last tripout to New York, which was
really, i mean, just completelymind blowing to me because I've never hunted
in those kind of conditions. Infact, I've never hunted waterfowl and saltwater
period. But then I had theopportunity to spend quite a few different conversations
on the phone with Mike Katz,and in addition to having an incredible waterfowl

(20:52):
experience, I think just being aroundthat guy is going to be as much
entertainment as any one person can handle. That guy's a character. Absolute that
should be a ton of fun.You know, I'm loving it. Mike's
sorry. I was gonna say Mikeis a one of a kind character,
and and really I got to justsay one thing about Mike is Mike my

(21:17):
son drew a number on a fourthof July giveaway hunt. We don't really
do giveaways if if your name's onthe list, like I'm going to contact
you and we're going to give youa hunt. So I don't want to
make it seem like we had agiveaway, but it was a way to
get more folks involved in waterfowl forthe next season. And my son picked
Mike Katz's number out of the listfor a hunt, and so I called

(21:41):
Mike and I said, Mike,you know, I want you to come
out to New Mexico. And Mikesaid, man, I watch what you
guys do for impact and what youdo, I want you to come out
here first. And so Mike hostedmyself and two other veterans, well two
veterans, Mark and Blake out inNew York last year and it was an

(22:03):
incredible time. The whole thing.He does this all for free. And
then you know, hunting layouts,big boats. Being a boy from the
desert, I've never seen anything likethis, And so Mike did that and
then he came out here in January, met Justin and another two volunteers of

(22:26):
ours, Brandon and Chevy, andMike after his trip was so fond of
our volunteers that he told me thatthat they needed to come to New York.
And so Justin, Brandon, andChevy from the program are all going
to New York this year and thehunts are completely free, everything set up.
These guys are in for a realtreat. And I'd just like to

(22:48):
say thanks, Mike. I mean, it's an incredible opportunity. Yeah,
hey, thank thanks for that,Matt. I appreciate that. And yeah,
what a generous what a generous guywilling to really really give back to
those who've served, And just reallyappreciate everything he's done for those individuals and
also for your program, Matt.And now back to you, Anthony.

(23:12):
So we had a pretty good twentytwenty three. I think you know,
we got an opportunity to spend alittle time turkey hunting way back in the
spring and doing some education with abunch of youth and all kinds of great
stuff. That was tons of fun. I know you just got back from
Italy. It sounds like that wasan amazing trip. But I'd like to

(23:32):
hear what you've got coming up intwenty twenty four, man, what your
goals are, your plans, youraspirations, that kind of thing. Yeah,
man, No, Twenty twenty threewas a big year, especially coming
back. I had been away fora handful of years. I was living
out in Arizona, moved back atthe beginning of the year, and so
really got super involved with a lotof the educational components that Matt had laid

(23:55):
out for the year. I thinkthat's again where even drives me even further
into that direction, is really enjoyingthe time spending time educating individuals about the
outdoors, whether it's kids all theway to adults. Those are things that
you know, I'm super passionate about, and coming around in the new year,
it's just a continuation of what we'redoing now. But on top of

(24:18):
that, I myself am finishing up. I just applied for my master's program.
But what I'll be doing is finishingup my master's degree in marine biology,
and that's going to be the nextstep in my career. But again,
it's all late out. It wasall a foundation laid out by what
we've done with Impact and all theprojects that have just inspired me to want

(24:41):
to go and do those in evena larger scale and hopefully take what I
learn abroad and bring it back homeand again continue to just be an avid
conservationist in that sense. Dude.That's fantastic, man. I love I
love all of this this big thinkingthat's going on. Man, you are

(25:04):
a very inspiring group of young men. Matt, what's on the schedule for
Impact Outdoors for twenty twenty four?Men? Give us an update on the
program. Twenty twenty three was ahuge year for you. It seems like
every year you outdo yourself. I'malmost afraid to ask what twenty twenty four
is going to look like, butwhat's your vision for the year to come
in? Well, we kind oftake projects as they like show themselves.

(25:32):
And just like New Mexico Wildlife Federation, when somebody calls you and they tell
you that you know a road isbeing denied access to public lands, well
you guys investigate. I'm hoping thattwenty twenty four is a wet year.
You know, we got twelve inchesof snow on the ground up here and
to head us right now, andthat's promising. But in terms of numbers

(25:59):
and things that I can control,were I got to look at our numbers
for our session or this last year. Our year runs Turkey to Turkey,
and so generally around April eighth itstarts a new year, and we kind
of run through like that. ButI'm looking at our numbers prior to this
podcast, and we so far havealmost seen five hundred youth through our program

(26:23):
this year. That's educational engagements withfish and wildlife with Mexico Department and Game
and Fish, with our own outdoorclassroom opportunities. We've developed two new outdoor
classrooms this last year. We've plantedtwo hundred and sixty eight acres of bird

(26:45):
specific habitat. I don't know ourprecise numbers on Marchland development, but I
do know that we most likely blewour past year's number of sixty four sites
of improvement out of the water.And so if we're almost at five hundred
youth this year, my goal forour veterans is two hundred veterans through the

(27:08):
program. Those can be veterans thathave attended multiple engagements, because we are
proud of our retention rates. Butlike we have an upcoming hunt coming on,
and we got four new vets whohave never been through the program,
and hopefully they're joining us in Februaryfor workshops. But I do see that

(27:30):
two thousand and twenty four is probablygoing to bring the need for assembly.
And we're losing places up and downthe middle Rio Grand Valley in terms of
habitat loss, Like I'm fearful toeven mention to my son, like where

(27:51):
we might hunt in four years,because the way that loss is occurring,
I'm worried that in four years someof the habitats that truly support our biodiversity
for the whole valley may be gone, or there may be the need for
folks to assemble and actually fight someof these losses. We're losing a marsh

(28:15):
north of the north of Elephant Butte, and even though it's not in the
same like you know, refuge areaof Bosque del Apache, so many of
the birds from BDA rely on thispond as a loafing area each day.

(28:36):
And according to things that I've heard, I mean, even my volunteer and
friend Justin he's been down there.They've been looking at draining that marsh,
and there's even proposals to straighten theriver with vegetation removal from Bosque del Apache
all the way to the butte.And the problem is is that we as

(28:57):
duck hunters, we don't talk aboutthe places we frequent and I did that
for so many years out at thresLagunas until I realized that we were going
to lose it unless I started tocampaign for it. And that was a
hard decision because I went from beingable to harvest birds all the time,
you know, high numbers, verysuccessful, to like recognizing that if I

(29:22):
put a spot on the map,it means that there's going to be more
attendance. And so what I seein twenty twenty four is I hope to
get people frustrated. I hope toget people mad about the way that we
view water and habitat in this state. And the only way that we're going

(29:45):
to stand up to like bid bigagencies, big state agencies, federal agencies
that are making these decisions is tomake new friends and to have like,
you know, opportunities like Wildlife Wednesdaylast night. Wildlife Wednesday last night was
great because we were able to talkabout the program. We were able to

(30:06):
talk about decoys, we were talkingabout dominant marsh birds, you know,
we were talking about all the thingslayouts, panel blinds, everything, But
it also gave us a chance toaddress, in my opinion, the elephant
in the room, which is themiddle Rio Grand Valley only has five percent
of its natural habitat left. Andwhen we destroy a biodiverse marsh like the

(30:33):
Pond of Death as we know it, right because we never say the name
of what it is, but SanMartiall Lake, it's an old lake,
and this marsh it supports insects,fogs. It's one of the last standing
flathead fisheries in New Mexico. Andright now they have put up a dry

(30:53):
dam so that we have choked outthe fresh water from a stream that essentially
oxygenates this marsh. And they've placeda dry dam, a dirt dam over
that spring, and they put intwo new gates that allow them to run
water straight to the river. Andwhen they made these developments, essentially what

(31:18):
we did was we no longer havean inlet or an outlet to that marsh.
And we're talking about one marsh here. But really, as things get
as heated as they are with Texasand water rights, and what water really
means to most of these agencies ismoney. And so I just like Via

(31:41):
del Oro a few years ago,where we made decisions, or we didn't
make decisions, but decisions were madeabout our public access and how we could
no longer duck hunt a location.You know, Jesse, I know you
led the charge on that. Myconcern is is that twenty twenty four is
going to be a hard year becausewe're going to need to stand up to

(32:04):
see these places actually preserved or savedor you know, not elimited. And
I think that that's not an easything to do because you're talking about places
that people love but and they don'twant to share, and I don't blame
them, but the overall is thatI think twenty twenty four we're going to

(32:25):
have to assemble duck hunters and we'regoing to have to start standing up for
the places we love because a lotof them are on the chopping block,
and that's not going to be aneasy thing to do. Matt that that
was a really, really great response, And I appreciate your honest assessment of
the challenges ahead, because it's realeasy to talk about the new year with
rose colored glasses on and how wonderfulit's going to be and how great everything

(32:49):
is. But those challenges are real, and the threats are real, and
I've got a lot of different rabbitholes. I want to go down at
this moment in time, but Ifeel compelled to talk about really quickly the
NASK conference, and I know youall are familiar with that. We discussed
it just a little bit yesterday evening. But NASK or NASC, that's an
acronym for the National Assembly of SportsmenSportsmen's Caucuses, and so basically what this

(33:16):
is, this is an event that'ssponsored every year by the Congressional Sportsmen's Foundation.
So Congressional Sportsmen's Foundation is an unbelievablyeffective organization. The average hunter and
angler doesn't hear about them that muchbecause they're not real in your face kind
of fundraising, constantly sending you freeaddress labels, type of stuff. They

(33:37):
don't have, you know, asfancy of a sticker as the Ducks Unlimited
Duckhead or the Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation. Hunting is conservation stickers and all that
stuff. So they're not as they'renot quite as visible to the average person.
But the Congressional Sportsmen's Foundation is incrediblycommitted to working on Capitol Hill.

(33:58):
They're working in the Capitol, They'rein senator's offices and representatives' offices and meeting
with you know, the real decisionmakers in Washington, d c. And
across the country. But the NASKConference in particular is one where every state,
now every one of the fifty states, has something called a sportsman's caucus.

(34:20):
And what that is is those areyour state elected officials, your state
senators, and your state representatives whoare hunters and or anglers and are interested
in policy that affects those things.So you might have two or three,
or four or five, depending onthe state you have a different the state,
the size of the caucus varies.Right. Tennessee, for example,

(34:43):
has a humongous sportsmen's caucus. Isometimes joke and say they're sportsmen's caucus is
larger than their legislature, which isn'treally possible, right because the caucus is
from the legislature. But it's justa joke. You know. In New
Mexico, we have a handful oflegislators and sportsman's caucus. But these are
legislators that are really paying attention tothe issues that affect the stuff we care

(35:05):
about. And so the Congressional Sportsman'sFoundation every year convenes all of those legislators
who are willing to participate from aroundthe entire country and brings them to one
location for a week, and Iparticipate in that event because what I have
is lawmakers from across the country andI have a week with them as a

(35:25):
captive audience. This last conference wasin Dewey Beach, Delaware, in the
middle of winter. We're on thebeach, so nothing was even open,
so it's a real captive audience becausethey have nowhere else to go. The
conference room that we're occupying is reallythe only open place, and it's too
cold to go outside, so Ihave them right there ready to listen and

(35:46):
have conversations about really important topics.And it's great because even though I've only
got generally a couple of legislators ora handful of legislators from New Mexico,
I'm able to get ideas from allacross the country. I'm also able to
hear about the challenges they're dealing with, and that's really important because a lot

(36:07):
of times what they're dealing with inWashington State, or in California or in
Colorado is like a preview of whatwe're going to be dealing with in one
or two or three years. Theselarge efforts tend to sweep the country.
If there's an effort to ban houndhunting, for example, it starts in

(36:29):
one place, but then it movesacross the country like a wave. And
so by staying on top of what'shappening on the coasts, in some cases,
I can help to get the sportingcommunity in New Mexico prepared for what's
to come. And I just mentionedthat because I'm just going to throw this
out there as an invitation. Butnext year the NASK conference will be in

(36:50):
Baton Rouge, Louisiana, and oneof the people on the committee is a
guy by the name of Bill Cooksey. If you're not familiar with Bill Cooks,
he look him up. He's awaterfowl legend, like literal legend.
In fact, he's one of thefew. He's the only person I know
who's actually been inducted into the Legendsof the Outdoors Hall of Fame, which
is a huge, huge honor.But anyway, he's been a judge at

(37:13):
World Championship duck calling competitions in thewhole nine yard. So Bill Cooks,
he's one of the organizers of nextyear's event, and we're going to be
working on planning some like epic WaterfowlAdventures in Louisiana, you know, in
combination with the NASK conference. Sowe'll be out there for the conference,

(37:35):
but we're going to get in somevery serious waterfowl hunting activity while we're out
there. So I'm saying that becausejustin Anthony, Matt, if we can
make it work, we got ayear to plan. It's next November,
so we got eleven months to workon plans to make this happen. But
it would be amazing for us togo out there as a group so we
can do some unbelievable hunting and fishing. And also, you guys can get

(38:00):
into the loop because Matt, whatyou're talking about with sharing locations. You
know, you and I've talked aboutit a lot, but it matters so
much, and it matters so muchmore than people realized. It was actually
kind of funny. Yesterday I mentionedI was testifying in a court case and
it was about an illegally locked roadthat blocks public access, and I hope

(38:21):
this didn't compromise the outcome of thecase. But at one point I was
on the witness stand and I wassworn under oath, and the attorney asked
me where in the area was myfavorite place to hunt MERT's quail, and
I pled the fifth, so thatwas kind of interesting. I didn't want
to give up my honey hole,so I literally pled the fifth to that

(38:43):
question under oath. So that kindof illustrates what you mentioned, Matt,
that people don't want to share theirspots. But you were one hundred percent
right in that if you don't sharethe place, then people don't develop a
love for it. And if theydon't love and care about it, they're
not going to fight to protect it. They're not going to fight to preserve

(39:04):
it, they're not going to makesure it's well taken care of. So
we have to connect people with theseplaces. But the reason I bring this
up, Mat is because we know, or you know, especially the kind
of threats and issues that are facingus here locally. But when you're talking
with say Ed Penny from Ducks Unlimited. Ed is a really good friend of
mine. Always at the NAS conference, Ducks Unlimited is one of the big

(39:28):
sponsors. When you're talking with EdPenny, he's able to explain what's happening
in North Dakota, what's happening inMontana, what's happening in the prairie pothole
region. That has a tremendous impacton the experience that we end up having
in New Mexico. Right Like wherethese ducks are getting born has an effect

(39:51):
on where we're hunting, on thetype of numbers we might be seeing when
we're hunting ducks here in New Mexico. And so for that reason, I
think having you three guys with meat the NAS conference, talking to these
conservation leaders of national organizations and stateorganizations based in other states, particularly other

(40:12):
states north of our north in ourflyway, would be would be super powerful.
So that's that's an open invitation foryou guys to join me out at
the NASC conference Baton Rouge, Louisiana. It's in November. I'll get you
the exact dates and stuff. ButI think that would be a really exciting,
exciting thing. And Matt, youand I were at a conference,
I guess it was about a yearago, maybe in Broken Arrow, Oklahoma.

(40:36):
I think it was that one wasput on by the Council to advance
hunting in the shooting sports. Butmaybe you can comment just a little bit
on the type of connections, thenetworking and the progress we can make in
our work by attending some of theseevents. Yeah, so back to the

(40:57):
conversation about real quick ed pinning.You know, they're worried about what's happening
in the pothole region because they're worriedabout nesting. Well, nesting and bird
populations don't just happen in one place. And so my concern that we have
here is New Mexico's number two forbird biodiversity in the nation. And so

(41:20):
my thoughts are, how many yearsin a row can we only give our
WMA's thirty percent of allocated water?How many years in a row can we
like make decisions about biodiverse environments thatat a state level will at one point
make a difference in federal duct populations. Like we're looking at the same locations

(41:43):
that pintails come to as a destinationfor breeding every year. We're looking at
thirty one thousand crane that are visitingthe middle Rio Grande Valley as we up
the cfs of the river, andthey don't have a place to sleep at
night because we've flooded all the sandbars. So I think ed Penny's you know,
correct on approach that if you getrid of the prairie pothole redion,

(42:06):
you get rid of opportunities, especiallyfor the pintail. But if you get
rid of breeding areas at a statelevel because you're not considering the birds,
how many years in a row canyou make decisions like that before you nationally
affect populations of the same species.And so New Mexico I think, you

(42:28):
know, maybe at a conference likethat, Jesse, we could talk about
the tail end of that, thatif there isn't successful breeding that takes place
in New Mexico, how many ofthose birds or those pairs are returning to
the prairie prod whole region to reproduce, Or like if we see cranes literally

(42:49):
roosting in a field instead of asandbar, how long can we make decisions
at a state level that stress outthe population of those rocky mountain graters before
we make a dent or a totaldevastating impact on populations across the country.
And I would say that maybe someof these conferences like we went to in

(43:10):
Oklahoma, we were recognized for ourinclusiveness through Theodore Roosevelt Conservation Partnership, and
we were lucky enough to sit ona panel and discuss relationships between our landowners
and our veteran engagements and our outdooropportunities and that, and I think it
would be incredible to join you guysin Louisiana, to bring these guys along

(43:34):
and to grow. Anthony visited theR three conference this year with Impact Outdoors,
and I know that you don't knowwhat you don't know, And as
soon as you go to a conferencelike that, it feels like the whole
world's opened up and you're able totalk to these representatives and you're able to
talk to these leaders of these othernational organizations, and you realize that maybe

(43:59):
something there dealing with in Montana ispretty similar to what we're dealing with here
in New Mexico. And I thinkjust creating that space is so so important.
I really appreciate the invite. Jesse, Yeah, thanks, Matt and
Justin. I don't think there's probablyanybody alive that understands Elephant Butte and the
river coming in and going out ofElephant Butte as well as you do,

(44:21):
probably because you hunt three or fourdays a week. And I hope I'm
not blowing up your spot by sayingthat, but it's probably not too much
of a secret kind of where youfrequent. But I'm wondering if you could
talk a little bit about the changesyou've seen over the last maybe five years,
maybe just because you know, I'veseen a lot of changes. Of
course, I'm an old guy,and so I've seen a lot of changes
over my lifetime down in that area. But I don't know it nearly as

(44:45):
intricately as you do. But itseems like even just in the last five
years, there's been drastic adjustments thatare made. Maybe some management agencies would
refer to those adjustments as in Iprovements. There's always problems in New Mexico
surrounding water, you know, alwaysthere's just that we live in a desert,

(45:07):
We're in a dry state, andwater is a big issue. In
fact, I was on the phonethis morning with Ivan Valdez from the Real
Life Flight Shop, who was bringingto my attention an issue up in avoqu
Reservoir, and you know, I'vegot to jump into this. I've got
you know, part of my jobis accepting phone calls from all across the
state from people who have, youknow, concerns about things that are affecting

(45:30):
hunting and angling, whether it's accessor management or habitat or whatever. And
so I spend a lot of mytime in a reactionary mode, which is
which is hard to adjust to becauseI try to be a proactive individual.
I try to have a plan,I try to have a schedule and stick
to it. But when the phonerings and I answer it AND's someone with

(45:50):
a very urgent issue, you know, kind of disrupts the flow of things,
and you got to look into itbecause it's timely. And this particular
issue Ivan was talking about at avoquResids or apparently they're going to do some
type of maintenance or construction on thedam, and so in order to do
that, they are completely closing theflow out of the outlet for eight hours

(46:13):
a day, stopping the water flow. And this is a time when trout
are spawning. So these spawning bedsare drying up and becoming exposed to the
sunlight and completely failing, and they'redead fish all in the dry river bank
because the rivers now drying out,you know, for periods throughout the day.
And uh and Ivan, as aprofessional fishing guide who depends on this

(46:38):
place to make a living and tosustain a business, you know, is
very very concerned, and so hecontacted me to look into this, and
that's what I'll be doing. Assoon as we wrap up this conversation.
I've got to jump into to thatwork so I can see what I can
do to try to make an impactand see if we can get some decisions
to be adjusted such that we cando whatever work needs to be done on

(47:00):
the dam. I mean, Iget it, if construction needs to happen,
we've got to figure out how todo that. But if we need
to utilize pumps to pump water fromthe lake into the waterway to keep these
spawning beds submerged and provide enough habitatfor fish to survive this process, then
we've got to get a little bitmore creative than taking the path of least
resistance in whatever's cheapest and easiest,because that's not necessarily best for wildlife.

(47:24):
And I think, maybe sorry forthat super long tangent that I just went
down there, but I think whenI see what's happening to the Rio Grande
River around Elephant Butte, I seesome similarities with perhaps, and I'm going
to defer to you on this justbut perhaps decisions are being made with a

(47:45):
lot of things in mind, butmaybe not what's best for wildlife or maybe
what's best for outdoor recreation. Soif you want to talk a little bit
about the changes that you've witnessed,concerns, frustrations, or if you want
to provide, you know, wordsof praise to management agencies, you could
certainly do that too, whatever youthink is appropriate. Yeah, absolutely,

(48:07):
well, I think, I mean, the biggest thing I've seen in alicant
But and especially up the river isis they've gone through and started dredging.
So I would say the first yearthat I was really around that area was
probably the fall of twenty twenty one, I would say, and during that

(48:29):
year they actually went and dredged theriver. And so they go through.
They have really big airboats and theyhave excavators on floating floating tracks, and
so these things are capable of notgetting stuck, and then they use the
airboats to get back and forth.But they go through, and they dig
the river deeper, and they buildthese huge banks on the sides so that
even when the river's high like itis right now, they don't have any

(48:52):
water flooding the you know, thesurrounding Bosque area, which is really bad
for our environment. It doesn't allowfor like cottonwoods to germinate, you know,
they have to be flooded to germinate. It also promotes in basic species
like salt cedars and other things likethat, which don't need a flood to
germinate. And so it allows ourboss get to get even more choked off

(49:15):
than it already is because they're controllingthe way that our river should naturally flood
and change its course and do thingslike that, and it's kind of frustrating.
Like, especially for the last coupleof years, if you go into
the Red Rocks I sit off thefreeway, you know there should be some
excellent water fowling in there. Butthe way they've gone in and dug the
river out, it made it sothat there's no vegetation. And then after

(49:37):
once we had a really good springand we had a good spring rent off,
well, it broke the berms becausethey're made out of sand, like,
they're not very sturdy bill and sonow they're going they're going to have
to go through every year we havea good flow, they're going to have
to pay to get this entire riverchannel dredged out again. And every time
they do that, they get ridof every single plant that's on the shore

(49:58):
because they dig it all up andmove it, cut the roots and whatnot,
and it doesn't allow for any wildlifeor any plant material to grow in
the river. So there's no foodfor a bird or anything. Anything that
wants to live in the river thatwould like something to eat is completely kabash.
There's no options for it at all. And it's pretty sad to see

(50:19):
because if you go up the riverjust a little ways where they're not doing
this, like say in the Bernardoarea this year, there was excellent feed
in the river. You know,there's two and three foot tall vegetation that
when the river started to come up, the ducks would eat it and they
would be in their feeding and itwas an amazing place to be. But
the way that they've treated the riverdown in closer to elf and but between

(50:39):
San Urachiel and the but is prettysad because they're just getting rid of a
lot of wintering habitat for a lotof ducks that need it. And the
other thing is the way that theymanage the water at the lake is sometimes
kind of frustrating because elf and Butit's a pretty magical place. It has
tons of wild feed that will grownaturally. But when they empty the lake

(51:01):
sometimes they have the tendency to justdump the water out really fast and it'll
reced too fast for a good amountof vegetation to grow. So like this
year, the first month or twoa duck season, there hasn't been any
feed underwater because they took the wateroff the lake so fast, nothing had
a chance to grow Versus in thelast couple of years there's been just acres

(51:22):
and acres and acres of perfect duckfood. But it makes it really tough
for birds to go to this greatwintering habitat when they mismanage the water and
now there's nothing for a duck tofeed on there. So now it's just
kind of like a stopoverground and aduck will either hang out the lake for
a couple of days and go backto Bossa del Apache, or it'll keep

(51:43):
going south, but it definitely won'tstay, which is sad. Yeah,
those are those are really interesting observations. I'm curious if you have any thoughts
on what we can do as aas a water fowling community to get organized
and try to affect change with regardto how those decisions are made and what

(52:06):
those processes look like going forward.Yeah, I'm not sure. It's a
pretty hard problem because I mean kindof like as Matthew is saying, I
mean, to the agencies that controlthe river. To them, the river
is money and the water is themoney, and for them it's a game
of getting as much water as theycan as quickly as they can down And

(52:28):
so it's kind of like the oppositeof what we might want. What we
really need is for them to notbe dredging the river and building these huge
banks on the sides. What weneed them is to let the river be
natural and so it can grow somefood, and so it can. It
can flood the boss like it should. It can, it can germinate cottonwood
trees, and it can eventually.You know, we'd really like to see

(52:50):
some salt cedars get out of thereand open our boss g up, because
it gets so choked off with theriver being as controlled as it is that
our big game animals have a reallyhard time living in there. You know,
they become really easy prey because theycan only walk certain trails within the
basque and they have no cover.But as far as the solution goes,

(53:10):
I am not really sure. Imean it's possible you go through and you
plant, you know, you could, we can do some planting efforts.
We can get together and plant somesandbars and stuff. But the other problem
is, like this year they've pushedwater, like the way that they've the
way that they've pushed this water fromAbuque to do these dam inspections or whatever
reason they push this water. They'removing about one hundred thousand acre feet from

(53:36):
Abuque to the But that's what's goingon right now. So the river is
super high, which is as Mattwas talking about, kind of messing up
some sand hill roosting. And well, what it also does is when you
know, when the Rio grand isabove like one thousand to twelve hundred to
fifteen hundred cfs, that's kind ofthe limit of where you have edible plants

(53:58):
for a bird in the river.So when it gets above that, it
really blows all the food out.So the other thing that would be really
helpful is if we can somehow workwith water Conservancy district or whoever Bureau Reclamation
and kind of control when the wateris getting pushed, because if you do
it in a way that allows plantsto grow and not just blow them all

(54:22):
out. Then it would you know, we can work together. But the
problem is when you hold water.You know, they filled up coaching.
They put forty feet of water oncoach dy and whatever their reasoning is,
I'm sure they had some. Butif they would have instead just let it
flow at eight hundred cfs for twoor three months instead of kicking it to
two thousand for this month, wewould have had a lot more plant material

(54:42):
stay in the river and we wouldhave had a lot better outcomes for our
wildlife. Just so, will youremind me what your degree is in computer
science? Dude? See, thisis what's amazing about getting around really enthusiastic
waterfowl hunters. You know, youhave these conversations and you would absolutely believe
that you're talking to a PhD wildlifebiologist, you know, complete scientists,

(55:08):
because because to hunt ducks at thelevel that you do, right, I
mean, that's how it feels likeI honestly, and I say that with
the utmost respect, that being awaterfowl hunter at your level requires you to
have this kind of knowledge and understandingof multiple species and the relationships between all

(55:31):
those different species, and then therelationships between all those species and the plant
life and water levels and cfs anda million other things. So it's super
fascinating and I'll just throw out somerandom thoughts. But you know, we
can if we are organized, whichwe can get you know, we can

(55:52):
do some things like low hanging fruitI call it, like some of the
easier to accomplish things is come upwith a resolution that we righte for SoCoRo
County and for Sierra County, forexample, but whatever counties make the most
sense that are in that region.Those are the first two that come to
mind. And then take those resolutionsto the county commissions and ask the county

(56:15):
commissions to vote to adopt those resolutionsand maybe included in that resolution. We're
addressing some of these issues about howwe manage water flows, and there's a
lot involved. It's going to takea little research, and we can do
that research. We have the capacityat the Federation because we're gonna have to
look at the compact that exists betweenTexas and New Mexico and how water needs
to be moved and how much waterthey're owed, and there's a lot involved.

(56:37):
So I don't want to make itsound oversimplified, like, oh,
we'll just write a resolution, they'lladopt it, and then the problems are
all fixed. It's certainly not thateasy. There's a lot involved. But
if we start with things like thatand we get the county commissions on board,
because likely, and I could bewrong, but likely county commissioners don't
even know this is an issue.They don't even know it's a problem.

(57:00):
Right, But if we can dothat, then maybe we take those signed
resolutions and you start meeting with thet ORC Chamber of Commerce, right,
and you're like, look, thisis a pretty depressed community economically. I
mean, that's just the reality ofthat community. And when we experienced drought
and when the lake levels drop andhe lose marinas and those kinds of things,

(57:22):
I mean, it really has anegative economic impact on that local economy.
But imagine if all the right decisionswere made to ensure that elephant but
was one of the Southwest's most primewildlife or waterfowl habitats in existence because we
did all the things right when itcame to how the area was managed to

(57:45):
not just a tract, but alsoto really hold huge numbers of birds.
Then what would that do for thelocal economy? I mean, how many
more people are going to be spendingtime down there eating at the restaurants and
staying at the hotels, you know, buy and field at the gas stations.
And so the money thing is it'sa reality of every part of conservation.

(58:07):
I hate to say it, butmoney's just a huge issue. And
you're spot on about you know,why these decisions are made by these you
know, decision makers. Largely it'sbecause of the dollar. And we have
to kind of find a way tomake that argument about the dollar work in
our favor, work on our behalf, and we can recruit a big coalition

(58:30):
of people to help us work onthis from you know, the bass anglers
and the angling community, the fishingguides and the local honey guides and Ducks
unlimited and pheasants forever and quail forever. I mean, we can build a
whole team of people, get organized, come up with some strong solutions.
And to me, I think that'swhat's so amazing about you know, conservation

(58:55):
is building those communities. As Imentioned early on in this conversation, that's
something Impact Outdoors has done an unbelievablejob of But there's a quote and I'll
probably butcher it because my memory isnot great, but it's goes something like,
how can I make a difference?I'm only one person said eight billion
people? Right, It's like,that's what we can do here at the

(59:20):
grassroots level as concerned waterfowl hunters whofeel like we have ideas that could lead
to really substantial improvements in habitat andtherefore opportunity. So, you know,
these are cool things we go workon. In Anthony, I know you
and I've talked a lot about yourkind of career plans and what the future

(59:42):
holds, and obviously you're just flyingthrough the educational process in super impressive fashion.
But in a perfect world, I'dlike to hear kind of in the
conservation world, in a perfect worldfive years from now, what are you
doing man in a perfect world?Realistically? So, I would say Impact

(01:00:02):
Outdoors started with Matt's leadership, andwhat it really led to is eventually us
talking and you know, sitting downand really planning out a future for Impact
to where it became an organization thatled the way for conservation and education,
but also becoming a you know,hopefully you know that our organization was able

(01:00:28):
to be funded in the sense ofto where Matt is able to higher on
full time individuals like myself and otherothers who come through the program. But
in a perfect world, I wouldlove to see myself still very much engaged
with conservation in the sense of bringingthese veterans out and you know, getting

(01:00:52):
these guys in a way. Sofor me, what really holds a special
place in my heart for these veteransis my entire family is military, so
I always hold a special place inmy heart for them. But then I,
you know, get to see theseguys come out and do these full
cycle engagements to where a lot ofthese guys are so skilled in other facets

(01:01:14):
other than you know, than huntingand fishing. Some of these guys can
you know, run heavy machinery,they can weld, you know, anything
that you need them to do,they can do it. So still being
engaged with them in a perfect worldand still providing these opportunities to where we
can take them out to hunt andto fish, but also continue building the

(01:01:35):
habitat that it has been lost.And just a prime example kind of circling
back to what you were talking aboutjust recently, Jesse is a prime example
of where we've seen a giant failureof individuals coming in and worried about the
money versus the actual habitat and theecosystem that actually exists there is there's a

(01:01:55):
place that Matt and I grew upfishing together, and it's right off the
Pecos and it's y, it's youknow, and at one point used to
be such a beautiful place to goin bass fish. But the county out
there decided to make a river walkout in Santa Rosa and completely destroyed every

(01:02:19):
single piece of habitat that was ableto hold life in that area. And
now it's gone. It went oncewent from an incredible place to even even
see ducks, you even saw craneat times, you saw these different species
of animals. It went from thatto a silent river. Basically. The
last time I went out there wasso depressing. I took my father out,

(01:02:43):
and for me it really struck homebecause I told him, I said,
I used to come out here fiveyears ago and catch giant smallmouth,
giant largemouth, and we would justcatch them all day long. Now I
don't even see a fish in thisriver. I just see clear and just
a complete destroyed environment. So kindof going back to what your main question

(01:03:07):
was, I would love to stillbe very much involved in the educational component
in teaching the youth here in NewMexico about the resources that we do have
and how to continuously be a voicefor those resources and continuously fight for those

(01:03:27):
resources as well. Too. Onething that I've noticed thanks to Matt's leadership
is creating these wildlife warriors is somethingthat's going to be a life mission of
mine. It's not just going tobe a five year plan. It's going
to be a life mission continuously creatingthese wildlife warriors who stand up for the
environment, who continuously you know,people like you, Jesse, who go

(01:03:50):
and sit in these legislative sessions andgo and talk with these lawyers, and
you go into these high profile casesand you take the time out of you
know, your life to do thesethings that really impact not only just the
environment, but also impact the communitiesthat you know survive within them. Like
you said, there's certain individuals thatdepend on the river or depend on the

(01:04:14):
wildlife areas to make a living,and when you destroy those areas, you
in a sense destroy a community.And those are things that I want to
continuously fight for and continuously be apart of, and continuously go to these,
you know, these national conferences.Like Matt said, I attended for
the first time this year that Rthree convention. It really opened up my

(01:04:36):
eyes to how much I really didn'tknow about what's going on. And a
small little fact that kind of againbrought it home was the lack of engagement
for Hispanics in the outdoors. Imyself being Hispanic, I kind of was,

(01:04:57):
you know, in shock because tome, I see a lot of
my friends hunting. I see alot of my friends fishing. But then
in reality, when you look atit at a macro view, you kind
of see like, wow, therereally aren't a lot of people that engaged
in conservation and not even involved inthe outdoors, whether it's camping, whether
it's going birdwatching. But those peoplecan also become voices for our wildlife and

(01:05:23):
our ecosystems and conservation. So Ithink that's a huge miss that we need
to bridge that gap on kind oflike you're talking about. So, I
know it's a long winded answer,but it's just because I'm so passionate about
it. But at the end ofthe day, in a perfect world.
I'd love to continue be a voicefor the environment, but also being a

(01:05:45):
mentor in the outdoors and a stewardof the land, exactly what Matt's program
preaches. He's turned me into awildlife warrior, and I want to continue
that on. So that's kind ofwhere I would say in five years,
that's my dream. But as alife goal, that's just going to be
my continuous fight. Man. That'sfantastic, and I have no doubt that

(01:06:08):
that's what you'll be doing. Man. That's good. That's a goal that
will be achieved. And I reallyappreciate all you guys joining me in this
little conversation and hanging out with melast night. It was great to see
you. I was really sorry thatI missed the majority of the presentation.
Really quick, just so I don'tleave our listeners hanging. If they're not
familiar with a Purcha Creek lawsuit,I'll just mention it basically down in Sierra

(01:06:30):
County, near the town of Kingston, it's a small rural community in New
Mexico on the east side of theBlack Range. There's a forest road called
Forest Road forty E that leads intothe National Forest and ultimately dead ends at
a trailhead that you can use tohike into the Elder Leopold Wilderness, one

(01:06:51):
of my favorite places in the world, a place where I harvested my very
first wild turkey as a kid,place where I go every year year now
to harvest Turkey's where I've killed elk, and just some of the best memories
of my life are made in theAldo Leopold Wilderness, which is really kind
of coincidental now that I work foran organization founded by Aldo Leopold himself,

(01:07:13):
it's kind of all come full circle. But in any case, to get
to that wilderness boundary, the forestroad crosses three small private land parcels,
and that's been the case forever,and there's a prescriptive public easement for the
road across these three private parcels toaccess the public land, And in February

(01:07:35):
of twenty twenty two, an individualpurchased one of those parcels, a twenty
acre piece, and then after purchasingthe land, this individual erected a steel
gate and put a padlock on thegate, locking the public from being able
to continue down the road across thethird of the three private land parcels.

(01:07:58):
The road only stays on the privateland for about a third of a mile,
then you're right back into the Nationalforest and up to the trailhead.
The problem is, if you can'tuse that road to get to the trailhead,
it's about estimated about a seven hourhike around the private parcels because there's
a bunch of other private land.The road only goes through three, but

(01:08:20):
it's a big chunk of private landthat if you had to park at that
gate, for example, which youcouldn't really park at the gate because then
you're on someone else's private land.You'd have to park before you enter the
three private parcels. But in anycase, if without the use of that
road, it's about a seven hourhike to get to the to the trailhead
and back, so it'd be aboutseven hours round trip or three and a

(01:08:41):
half hours one way to the trailhead. So it's just it's completely inappropriate to
have this locked gate on a publicroad that should be publicly accessible, that's
paid and maintained by the United StatesForest Service, the management agency that we've
all hired to manage our federally managedpubblic lands, and so the Wildlife Federation

(01:09:02):
and the local homeowners association called thePurchase Creek Homeowners Association filed a lawsuit essentially
demanding this gate to be removed,and so I was tied up in that
and missed the Wildlife Wednesday event.The hearing took a lot longer than I
anticipated it would take, but Imade it to the tail end and got
to hang out with you guys fora little while, which was amazing,

(01:09:24):
and I'm looking forward to getting outin the field with you before the end
of waterfowl season. And more importantly, and most importantly, I'm just really
honored to have all three of youkind of on my conservation team as we
work together to advance the things wecare about, to protect the things we
care about, to ensure that wepass on some opportunity to the future generations.

(01:09:47):
I was telling justin last night,you know, I'm an avid hunter.
I just absolutely love it. Ilive for it. But if I
never hunted another day in my life, I've still experienced more opportunity than our
future generations may ever have, youknow. So my focus in life right
now is less about what I cando and where I can go, and

(01:10:11):
more about what can I do toensure that our kids and our grandkids and
future generations get these experiences. Butwith you guys helping and people like you,
young people like you, I mean, you know, justin you're probably
half my age, and so youknow what, I'm long gone. You're
going to be the one passing thetorch man. And that's really refreshing to

(01:10:33):
me. That's powerful because we needas many people like you three as we
can possibly get. And with that, I'm going to give you each an
opportunity to close us out and sayanything that you think we should have covered
that we didn't, or send amessage off to the listeners, or tell
people where to find you, whateveryou'd like to take the opportunity to do.

(01:10:53):
I'll start with you, Matt Wow. All right, Well, it
sounds like your issue with the thelawsuit in Purchase Creek. It sounds like
that's your threats Lagunas. And itsounds like the places that we're losing down
by the Butte, those are justinspots. And the fishery on the Pecos

(01:11:15):
that we're losing, that's Anthony's spot. And so the struggles that you know,
we we're facing, our only gonnabe answered by our efforts that we
can put into it. And soJesse, I really appreciate that you got
you know, attorneys and a strongback and all these things, and that

(01:11:39):
you take these things on and youtalk about include you know, including your
commissioners, you talk about including thecity. You talk about like raising the
bar for awareness of what these habitatsbring for recreation and for economy. And
so I'm just happy to be hereand I reallyiate you having us on here,

(01:12:00):
but I am more proud of justthe volunteers that we continue to get
support from, whether it's somebody helpinga struggling veteran across the river, or
it's somebody going to bat for ourfish or for our frogs. And Anthony

(01:12:23):
growing into conservation and justin you pickthe wrong degree, but maybe we can
figure out how to fit it in. You know. I'm just blown away
by the folks that continue to fightfor our mission. And Jesse, I
really appreciate your mentorship and for buildingme up seeing the potential and what we're

(01:12:45):
doing at that first camera at theCapitol and now looking at the way I
look at conservation and the way thatI look at habitat loss and bringing new
people into the field. I knowthat you made a huge imp act on
my direction and and this this podcastwas great, and you guys are great,
and I appreciate all of you guystrying to do something you know and

(01:13:10):
and standing up for your duck spot. Hey, thanks a lot, Man,
I really appreciate that. Man.It's so great to be able to
work side by side with you asoften as we do. Anthony Man,
I'm gonna turn over to you now. No, kind of like when Matt
said, we we appreciate what youdo here in the state of New Mexico,
Jesse, You've been a mentor tohim, and in lou he's been
a mentor to me. But continuouslygetting to work alongside with individuals like you

(01:13:34):
and Matt and even all the otherindividuals that I get to meet through impact
has been honestly just one of thebiggest blessings that I've had in my life.
And it's kind of again given methe direction to chase after what I'm
passionate about, and that his conservation, and that is creating more wildlife warriors.

(01:13:55):
I have two very young nephews thatI hope when they're my age that
they still have the opportunities, andI'm going to fight every single day to
make sure that they do so withyour guys' leadership in the state of New
Mexico, we definitely appreciate everything thatyou do. Jesse and Matt, thanks
for being a great mentor thank youguys for having me on the podcast.

(01:14:18):
Just to leave with a little note, it's one of my favorite quotes,
kind of just what Jesse was talkingabout, but it's an old Greek proverb
and it goes a society grows greatwhen old men plant trees whose shade they
will never sit in. So Ithink about that, and we have to

(01:14:39):
plant those trees because even when we'relong gone, we got to worry about
the next generation. So again,thanks Jesse, thanks Matt, Thanks guys,
Hey, thanks Anthony, Justin.You're going to be last up man,
And I know today is a specialday for you. It's anniversary with
a loved one, and I don'twant to keep you too much longer so
you can get prepared to celebrate properly. But I'd love to hear the concluding

(01:15:03):
concluding thoughts of this conversation from youdirectly. Man. No, I think
those guys sent it Beast and thisfun little top top chat we had.
And we appreciate all the hard workeveryone does. It's it's fun to get
out with everyone and do good worklike like we are. So I'm looking
forward to getting more done. Well, that's awesome. When you get out

(01:15:24):
to New York, tell Mike,I said, hello, Well, do
have a great time out there tobe safe. Thank you. Thanks for
listening to the Yahiva podcast produced byDrift with Outdoors