Ep. 35: Elk Bros

If one wants to learn to play the guitar, a quick search on Google will likely reveal a variety of instructors in your state willing to provide lessons. If you have a guitar, and maybe even if you don't, the process of beginning to learn how to pick the strings is relatively easy. A quick internet search, a couple phone calls and a few dollars later, one will likely be receiving professional coaching on how to produce music on that instrument. Overcoming the barriers to entry when it comes to hunting, and especially Western hunting is far more challenging. Generally speaking, it takes many hard-earned seasons of trial and error for one to become proficient in the art and science of hunting elk. One way to reduce your learning curve and expedite your path to success in the field is to hire a professional coach. When it comes to coaching elk hunters no one is more qualified than Joe Giglia of Elk Bros. Coach Giglia has taken 37 elk in 40 years on public land. In this episode Joe sits down to talk with Jesse Deubel at the New Mexico Outdoor Adventure Hunting and Fishing Show. This conversation is packed full of useful information and will leave you dreaming of hearing bugling bulls this fall. If you want to maximize your chances of connecting with one of those bulls and invest in truly becoming a master of your craft, give Coach Giglia a call. Enjoy the Listen!

Elk Bros Website

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Hello everybody, Welcome back to anotherepisode of the IVA podcast. Today,
we're coming at you from the NewMexico Outdoor Adventures Hunting and Fishing Show.
We're at the State Fairgrounds. Thisshow is put on by the New Mexico
Department of Game and Fish. It'san awesome opportunity for people who are interested
in hunting and fishing and other outdoorrecreation to come out and visit with nonprofit

(00:20):
organizations, vendors, companies, outfittingservices. Look at all the newest,
latest and greatest toys. When itcomes to boats and camper trailers RVs ATVs.
There's some calling contests going on.We saw some wild turkey calling.
We also saw an elk calling competition. And speaking of elk calling, I'm
super excited about today's guest on theshow. I'm gonna allow him to introduce

(00:43):
himself in just a second, butjust want to mention that if you're interested
in hunting and being a master ofyour craft, really getting good at it
and practicing it and becoming proficient inall aspects of hunting, you've got to
work at it. It's not somethingthat happens automatically. Like any skill,
it has to be developed and sometimesin developing a skill, it's helpful to

(01:04):
get a trainer, to get amentor, to get a coach. So
with that said, I'm here withelkbros today here at the show the New
Mexico Wildlife Federation presents the Yahiva Podcast. I'm excited to share with all of
our listeners what elkbros does, theprogram that they offer, and how they
help hunters become better. So withthat said, tell us about the program.

(01:27):
Hey, everybody, my name isJoe Jilia. I am the founder
owner of Elkbros. Elk Bros isjust what you said, so basically what
we do all things ELK man.And the way this came to be is
that I've been a guide for gosh, I don't know, going on thirty

(01:49):
years probably and working with people Ihad. I've always I've always been a
teaching guy, you know. I'venever been one of those point and shoot
type guys. You know. I'dlike to share the passion. I like
to let people know what's going onin my head to raise their level of
their experience. And I had fellasthat I was doing. It was like,

(02:10):
dude, you ought to do somethingwith this knowledge man, because you
just don't guide us, you teachus. And I had some actually some
good friends that they became my friendsthat were once my clients, and they're
like, Joe, man, youknow, dude, we don't want you
dying and all this information going somebodyce. I'm like, you know something I
don't know, duds. So Iactually I am a high school teacher coach

(02:35):
for thirty years. I retired intwenty fifteen, and it's just been something
that I do. So I've beenable to combine my passions of coaching my
passions of elk cunning. I've beena bow hunter since I don't know God.
I mean, I started shooting thebow just when I was like six
years old, right, And whenI came to New Mexico. I came

(02:57):
to New Mexico in nineteen eighty,came out here to college, saw my
first olt, and I was like, man, I'm home, right,
So that's always been my passion.I've been bow hunting elk. This is
my forty second season. I've hada ninety percent success rate bow hunting elk
public Land, New Mexico. Andyou know, I get a lot of

(03:20):
people ask me two questions. Theirquestion is number one how are you so
successful? And number two, howdo you get all those tags? And
that's the thing that I hear allthe time. But you know, prior
to COVID, and here's this isa good lesson for people prior to COVID,
because COVID just shafted everything. Itjust caused a big thing to happen.

(03:40):
But before that, you could putin for areas that were low success
rates, that people that were difficultto get into, that people shied away
from, and you could draw tags. And I looked for those areas.
I wanted to go to those placesthat other people I wanted to avoid because

(04:02):
I truly believe that any unit inNew Mexico that has elk is great l
cunting. That's just how I believe. If there's an animal, an elk
in there, I feel like Ican kill that animal. I can bring
it in. I can have agreat hunt, and I can fill up
my freezer. I just I trulybelieve when I wrap my hand around my
bow and go into the woods everyday, I can take an out.

(04:25):
That's how confident I am. SoI have actually taken what I do,
what my techniques, what my strategiesare, and I'm teaching other people so
I can help them flatten their learningcurve. And we do this in a
couple of ways. The first wayis I created an online course. It's
called base Camp. It's the firstcourse in our ELK Bros. Blue Collar

(04:50):
ELK Academy. It's the first coursesin there, and that is basically for
the beginner to fifteen year vet manthat wants to raise their level or have
never hunted out there, and Ishorten that learning curve to help them out.
The other thing that we do thatis really really cool, and this
has been a process, is thatwe actually sell hunts that are not guided

(05:16):
hunts, but our coach hunts.In other words, somebody will pay an
amount they will get two months ofcoaching prior to a hunt. What I
call my success Squad. There's fiveor six of us that do that,
and we help people in areas ofcalling gear, fitness, failure points,

(05:39):
how to set up their bow,how to set up in the woods.
So we teach them all aspects ofwhat we do, and it's different people
doing it and we do this zoombase right. So what's kind of cool
is when they have different people doingit in each of those areas, you
kind of associate that face with theknowledge, right, so it helps you

(06:00):
separate out the things that you've heard. And then when they come to ELK
Camp, they have an Elk Bros. Coach with them and we do not
guide, We are not enabling.We are empowering to create and help them
be the best DIY hunter they canbe. That's our goal now, just

(06:20):
like I coached athletes, your freshmanyear is kind of you know, your
year of finding things out and stufflike that. You can have some success
your freshman year, but generally byyour senior year of doing something like this,
You've got it now right now.We we had a gentleman two years

(06:45):
ago went through our course for twomonths, and what happens is we do
our coach hunt. You know howthe seasons are, So our season starts
on the fifteenth, goes through thetwenty fourth. We usually have our actual
coach camp from like the the twentiethto the twenty fourth, five days,
so I encourage them to take theknowledge and the coaching that they have and

(07:06):
be out there on the fifteenth.Right, we had a fella came out
first day on the fifteenth. Hehas been with four different outfitters, has
never killed a milk with the bow, comes out and on his day one,
hunting on his own with the skillsthat we gave him, and he

(07:26):
calls in and kills his first helpman. That is so awesome. You
know, it's interesting, Joe,because here we are on Sunday. This
is a three day show, soI've been here Friday all day. Yesterday,
Saturday is a big day. Wegot thousands of people coming through,
coming by the booth, talking aboutissues, talking about all the things.
But I had a young couple yesterdayfrom Arkansas that stopped by the booth and

(07:47):
talking about various conservation issues that theNew Mexico Wildlife Federation is working on.
And your name came up in theconversation. And the wife of this young
couple again, they moved out herefrom Arkansas for jobs. Very accomplished hunters,
but not in western game hunting,right. These are whitetail hunters used
to sitting in tree stands and huntingwhite tails that way. But she hunted

(08:11):
with you. She took your programand was able to harvest an elk on
her very first outing. And shemade it clear in our conversation yesterday that
that wasn't the expectation that was explainedto her. You know, it was
all about the coaching, It wasall about the education. It was all
about the knowledge that It wasn't,you know, or someone trying to sell
her on the success rate, eron the harvest of the animal or the

(08:33):
killing or taking of the animal.That wasn't what got her interested. She
needed to learn. She wanted tobe prepared, she wanted to become a
Western hunter. But it just sohappened that she was able to harvest her
very first elk, which also happenedto be her very first big game animal,
which was which was amazing. Butshe really really sang the praises of

(08:54):
your program, and it was awesometo hear that kind of a testimonial from
one of your customers. And what'sreally cool about that is so the young
lady that you're talking about it sorings bells because her boyfriend bought the hunt
for her, right yep. Andhe had told us that, you know,
she's going out, she's done whitetail, but she just doesn't know

(09:15):
if hunting is for her. Andafter she got done with the hunt,
she was already ready to get goingfor next year. Man, she was
like so into it and had thegreat experience. And the interesting thing about
this is that she didn't go throughour total program. So we also manage

(09:35):
some ranches that we're working with,and what we try to do there is
we're trying to change. We're revolutionizingthe air quote outfitting right instead of I'm
not looking for hunters that are outto kill. I'm looking for hunters that

(09:58):
are out to learn about the hunt, to have the hunt experience. Now.
Do I want them to have success, absolutely, But I don't want
shooters, man. I mean shooterscan you know, they can go out
and go on the range if theywant to, and they can show how
proficient they are. I mean Iwant people that really want to get in

(10:20):
touch with the nature, want tounderstand the animal, want to understand the
aspects of the hunt, that wantto be to honor that. And I'm
not saying the shooters don't honor.Don't get me wrong with that. It's
just I want to give a differentexperience. I've been guiding people for almost
thirty years and I can have somebodyfollow behind me. Stay quiet, there's
your animals, set you up.Boom, You're done. We clean it

(10:43):
and you're gone. Now. Thereare people that need professionals to do that,
Jesse. There's people that struggle withtheir age, or struggle with their
abilities physically and different things like thatthat need that. And there's people that
don't have the time and really don'twant to learn all of that other aspects,
so they're looking for that. Butfor me, the heightened experience of

(11:03):
teaching somebody about the hunt understanding youknow, the mitigating circumstances that can happen
that can give you possibly a badshot. You know, we don't want
that happening, you know. Wewant to teach people all of those things
and all of the etiquette and allof the honor and all of the tradition

(11:26):
that comes with that Western hunt thatmakes it special, so that they can
be an incredible advocate as a hunterfor the hunting community. And they also
make things better for the rest ofthe hunting community when they learn to do
things the right way, you knowwhat I mean? Yeah, oh,
absolutely, And it's that's so valuableand important. And one of the reasons

(11:50):
it's so important is because as hunters, we are our own ambassadors. In
other words, there's nobody that's hiredto look out for the perception of hunters
among the non hunting public. Soevery single one of us has to do
that, and we have to betaught. We have to learn, we
have to be knowledgeable and educated andhow to effectively do that so that we're
not accidentally portraying what we do ina negative way or in a way that

(12:15):
would be perceived as negative by someonewho doesn't understand it, who has never
participated in it, because that wouldhave a really negative impact on the future
of our ability to continue doing thisthing that we love so much. But
I've got a question for you,Joe, because I've wrestled with this idea.
Now. You and I've talked aboutyour program, and we've talked about,
you know, the work that youdo, the incredible work that you

(12:37):
do for a number of years.We run into each other at this show
and around town and those kinds ofthings, game commission meetings, wherever it
might be. But I accompany alot of hunters on hunts, you know,
just because I love being out there. I love being part of it.
Some are brand new hunters that havenever hunted. Some are very experienced
hunters who just need an extra strongback to help carry an elkoff the mountain
or something. And when I'm witha new hunter, it's kind of nice

(13:01):
because they'll listen to me. Iget to be the lead. I get
to call the shots. I getto say where we're going, when we're
moving, when we're staying, whenwe're calling, when we're quiet, all
of the decisions. I feel comfortableand confident being the lead and making those
decisions. Sure when I'm asked togo with a person who's a very experienced
hunter. Some of our listeners willremember a two part episode that we had

(13:24):
published recently here on the IVA Podcastwith Jeremy Romero, a very accomplished elk
hunter. I accompanied him on anl hunt. He was able to take
a tremendous bull and I think Imentioned in that episode that when I'm with
a really experienced hunter, I justfollow instructions. It's his hunt. He's
got the tag, he or she, you know, depending on the circumstances,

(13:45):
the hunter has a tag. Ifthat's an experienced hunter, I don't
try to interfere with their decisions.I don't try to be the lead on
the decision making. Instead, I'mthere to support. Where do you want
me, what do you want meto do? Where do you want me
to set up that kind of thing? And I'm curious this coached versus guided
dynamic, how those decisions are made. I'm curious if the coach is making

(14:07):
the decisions or coaches asking the questionsof the hunter, who's ultimately making the
decisions? Or you know, youhear two bugles, once to the north,
once to the south, you knowwhen's going east to west? Which
bugle are you going towards? There'sa lot of variables, terrain and whether
time of day, the sound ofthe bugle. There could be any number
of variables that are going to helpinfluence what decision has made. But I'm

(14:31):
wondering if you would talk me throughwhat that decision making process looks like,
who ultimately makes the decision and therole of the coach as the coach and
the hunter go through the process.So what I'm gonna do is I'm gonna
separate this out just real quick andthen get back. I'm gonna come back
and really answer your question because rightnow, in trying to change the current

(14:52):
status quo of how people see aguide like on this managed ranch that we
have, like when they brought usin. When they brought me in and
partnered with with me, they hadalready basically had people that paid it for
a guided hunt, all right.So what I had to do is in
order to introduce what we're trying todo before we get those people that are
actually purchasing just to have a coachhunt, we had to change the dynamics.

(15:16):
So what I did was I letpeople know that you're not coming on
a guided hunt. You're coming ona You're going to get a teaching guide.
You're not going to be sticking yournose in somebody's we are in and
just following them around. They aregoing to be sharing with you what's in
their mind, what their thought processesare. They're going to make you their
partner. They're going to show youthe place, They're going to show you

(15:37):
what they're thinking, they're they're goingto get your thoughts and they're going to
talk about why they think. Sothat you become part of that process.
You own your hunt rather than itjust being something that you participate in.
I don't want them to be aparticipant. And as far as just somebody
on the ride, you know,it's like when you're in a car and
somebody else is driving. You don'tdon't even ever learn the town, right,

(16:02):
You just in there, you getout, and you're there from A
to B. We don't want that. We don't want a passenger. We
want somebody actively engaged. So that'swhat we are doing right now on the
managed hunt. Okay, they're notgetting they get my academy. That gives
them some information, but we haven'thad the opportunity to fully engage them in

(16:23):
all the monthly education. Now ona coach hunt, where that's strictly what
it is, where somebody's purchasing thatto have that coaching, that dynamic before
that and then have that coach onthere that's in the field with them.
That's the answer to your question.So here's how I and this is how
I teach my coaches. And itis so tough, Jesse, because when

(16:47):
you're a leader, you're just aleader, you're born to lead. It's
easy for you to go get overthere, go do this, always doing
this, go do that, usethis call. And we don't want that
because it's like I taught my coaches. When I'm on the sideline in a
basketball game and I see a guythat's dribbling poorly. I don't get to

(17:07):
go out there and take the ballfrom him and dribble for him. He
still has to dribble. Now,I can call time out and he can
come over, and I'm saying,the baseline's open. I need you to
drive it down there, or youcan come up and you can hit the
elbow and get the pass up.I'm giving him options basically from what we're
seeing that's happening in there. Butthey have to make the choices and they

(17:30):
have to play the game. Youknow. I had one of my coaches,
and I got some incredible dudes,and he is an actual softball coach
and does all these league things inTexas and stuff, and you know,
he's like, man, he's justhis calling. I was just worrying about
him blowing the elk out there.So I went in and grabbed my call.

(17:51):
And I'm like, so you're saying, when a girl's not hitting,
well, you back them out,You go in and hit for them so
they can get on base. No, of course not. So why are
you doing that for somebody else?Why? I didn't want him to.
I said, is this what isthe bottom line in this? But is
the bottom line that we have toensure their success or is the bottom line

(18:14):
that we ensure their education right,the experience that they come away with a
knowledge set. Yeah, they mightmake some mistakes and it's going to blow
some things. Look, I've beenhunting out for forty one years. I
still blow things right. The autteach me something new every year. But
what you're doing is you're making yourselfmore comfortable. You are not making them

(18:37):
more comfortable. You have just enabled, you have not empowered, right.
And when I say it like that, it's like, I'll give you an
example of another one of my coaches. We're driving down the road and there's
a guy with a flat tire onthe side right, and we get out
and we start talking to him.He's like, man, I got a
flat I don't know what to do. I've never had a flat tire or
anything like that. So I'm like, Okay, do you have a jack?

(19:00):
Yeah? Do you have a spare? Yeah? Just like that,
And I go over to the backof my truck. When I come back,
my coach is changing the friggin tireright, And we get back in
the vehicle and I asked him,I said, hmm, okay, the
guy's on his way. So ifhe gets another flat tire, you think
he's going to know what to dothen. And he looked at me says
like, what are you saying?I was like, you didn't show him

(19:22):
how to change a tire. Youdid it for him. He didn't learn
nothing, man, You just enabledthat dude. You did not empower it.
And he's like, I get it. I get it. So to
answer your question, when we're outthere, especially like on a five day
hunt, on day one, onday one, when I get out there,

(19:42):
I know that that guy that's withme, he's had the education,
he's hurt all the verb. Butshe does that. But it's so different
when you got boots on the ground, right, like you said, the
terrain, the variables, the weather, the time of year. Now they've
gotten a lot of the information,but it's things like when do I call,
where do I call from? Whatdoes that look like? What?

(20:03):
How many times do I call?What's the rhythm, what's the cadence?
Right should I be calling? Whatwould I do if I find sign?
What is a scenario? When doI do it? And how do I
do it? So on that dayone, I'm going to give them examples
like we're going to go out inthe morning, and I'm like, watch
me this morning when when I firststart out, okay, and I am

(20:25):
as I do it, I amexplaining every frigging thing that I'm doing,
what's going through my head, whythe wind is doing, what's the thermal's
doing, why I'm making a decisionthat I'm doing. So I am now
passing that on so he can relatewhat he sees here, smells and feels
with the conditions and relate what I'mdoing to them. Right, So I

(20:45):
am. All I'm doing is puttingtogether the strings, all right, from
what their knowledge set is to whatthe actual situation. And then you start
seeing the light bulbs go on.Right, So I might go out and
I'm this is what I'm doing asI'm walking, listen to I'm doing it
all right now. And then I'mlike, okay, you're up, batter

(21:10):
up. Try so I let themtake over a little bit, and then
I do some coaching, all right, try this, okay, and what
are you paying attention to? Becausenow I want them not only to be
thinking about the fact that they're calling, but why they're calling and where they're
calling from. Because anytime. SoI teach people about scenarios. So scenario
is basically, you always want ELKto feel or understand that you are another

(21:34):
Elk doing ELK things. Okay,And anytime I'm calling, I'm basically wanting
ELK to come in. I'm likehaving ELK come to me. I'm like,
here, i am come to me. So I see guys that sometimes
they call and they're standing in thebright sun, or they're standing next to

(21:55):
a tree where if an animal cameout, there's no way they could draw.
They don't have any opportunity because theydidn't think of every calling session as
a setup as part of a scenario. Do you follow me? Okay?
So we try to not only getthem thinking about what calls they're doing,
but now not only are they dribblingwhile they're thinking about the offense, they're

(22:15):
thinking about the defense. They're thinkingabout where that shot has got to go.
They're thinking about where their teammate's goingto be so they can get that
pass to them. I related allto sports because that's my background, and
I think a lot of people understandthe sports aspect of it. Right.
It really starts to bring them in. So I am coaching given examples,

(22:37):
just like we do drills. Right, So we're doing drills, I hand
it over to them, let's haveyou do it. I coach it as
we go through it, and thenwe move on to the next thing.
And I'm telling them why I'm givingthem options. Okay, this is option
A what I could do, andhere's why I would do it. And
that's just what happening in this timeof the year. But what if I
heard, saw, or smelled this, what would I do then? And

(23:00):
I tell them and I show themand I do that. So what I'm
doing is giving them associating their skillsets with boots on the ground and getting
them ready to be that player onthe floor that can make their own decisions.
So day two, I'm still doingsome of that and maybe extending it

(23:22):
into other areas depending on the situationsthat come on. And that's a great
thing about ELK, honey, somany variables of what's going to happen.
Right, nothing ever happens exactly likethe way you think it's going to happen.
But there are things that like youcan go out, you've taught everybody
all of this calling Like a lotof times everybody's always teaching you. Okay,

(23:45):
you go out, you locate booh, lokate bugle boo, you come
in, locate bugle. Most peopletoday, if they don't get a response,
they're like, there's no elk.I don't hear nothing. Nothing's talking.
There is no rut. The rudis late. You have, you
have all these things. It's tooindy, it's too hot, is too
dry, as too wet. Ibelieve in every condition, every condition,

(24:11):
there's an advantage. We do thesame thing again as coaches, no matter
what our opponent is, what thehome situation is, we have to find
our advantage, their weakness, theirdisadvantage, to exploit and use our strengths
to take advantage. So I'm teachingthem how to do that as we do

(24:33):
it. Now. By day three, I'm like, where are we going?
Right? Why are we going there? Okay? And if they give
me something that I there, therenever is a wrong answer, because you
know as well as I do.Man. You know, they might say
we're going here and I don't thinkand we can go there and everything can

(24:55):
blow up, right. But onething if they say something that I don't
necessarily think is real solid, allI do is give them additional options and
why they're additional options, and stilllet them make the decision if they're sticking
with their A plan. They're stickingwith their A plan. And I'm right
there now when I go with themas a coach, I am also their

(25:18):
partner. So if they because ofwhat they've learned about partner calling and stuff,
and they say, and we havea bull that's going anything, He's
like, I think this bull's rightfor here, Joe. I want you
going off, I want you settingup, dropping back, and I want
you to call for me. Absolutely, I'll call for you then. But
it's not me going I want yousitting here. I'm going to go back

(25:38):
and I'm going to call from here. We have reversed the roles. You
follow me, yep. Yeah.And so when we reverse those roles like
that, once they get out thefollowing year, if they if they decide
not to do this with us again, but they go out with a partner,
they know exactly what to do withthat partner. They take that role.

(26:00):
They have that confidence and you know, as well as I do.
Success a lot of it in anythingyou do is about confidence, right,
yeah, Oh, no question aboutit. Yeah. So I don't know
if I answer your question on allof those aspects, But really the decision
making, I teach them how tomake the decision, and then I allow

(26:23):
them to make the decision, justlike we have to allow our kids sometimes
to fail right and then learn fromit. The only thing is is I
can kind of head them off bygiving them suggestions and then watch how they
take it. And then when somethingstarts to go a little bit awry,
you know, on that sometimes wejust let it blow. Like this year,

(26:45):
we had four guys in camp thisyear, nobody killed. Everybody was
in a killing situation. That madefreshman mistakes, okay, so they were
allowed to make those mistakes. Welearned from those mistakes. And it's funny
like when something's given to you,you really don't and when you're enabled like

(27:12):
that, you really don't own it. When you make a mistake and you
know because of the knowledge you've beengiving it, that's a mistake, and
you know what the alternatives are.You own that situation the next time you're
in it. It's like you're nothaving to guess, like what I did.
It's not you know, I alwayscompare stuff like to a video game.

(27:33):
You start on level one and you'regoing all around, you're doing this,
you're picking up that, you're doingthis, and you're trying to get
to level two, and then yougo through this hole and you die.
So you do it all again,and then you go and then you die,
and then you do this time andtime again. Finally you get to
the next level, but it tookyou so long to get there, you're
not sure how you got there inthe first place. So you still make

(27:55):
a lot of those same mistakes thenext time you play the game. Well,
the way we do it is theydo have the information, they do
have the knowledge set, so whenthey make that mistake, it becomes an
aha moment and they own it.They don't have to keep making the same
mistake, right, And yeah,that's that's really helpful, And that definitely
did answer my questions. It makesme have a tremendous respect for the level

(28:18):
of discipline that you and your guideshave because just knowing myself, when I'm
out there with somebody and you're workinghard, right, I mean, elk
cunting is hard. You're in steepterrain, you're climbing, you know,
all kinds of treacherous country at timesand you get in position where you're on
wild Elk, there's an opportunity toconnect. And as someone with a lot

(28:40):
of experience, I have a lotless than you. You got forty one
years of experience doing this. Yousee that this isn't going to work out,
and to have the discipline to allowit to not work out is really
admirable. I mean, I completelyrecognize and understand and appreciate why you do
that. But I'm trying to internalizeand put myself in those shoes, in

(29:00):
those boots rather, and boy Iwould I would? It would be tough.
It would take me time to learnhow to keep my trap shut and
not intervene and get involved when Ineed to allow the process and the hunter
to go through the process without thatintervention. That would be tough for me.
Yeah, you know, so youhave to ask yourself, really,

(29:21):
who is this about? Is itabout me and making myself happy because we
got the kill, or just aboutthem and their learning experience? Right about
pneumonious So we're actually people like youand myself to do this thing. Like
I was a very selfish hunter andbecause of that, my daughters didn't get

(29:42):
the experiences that they should because Iwanted that time in the woods right,
and I was so hell bent onbeing successful and filling my tag that I
didn't allow that my kids be outthere and allow them to make the mistake

(30:03):
and go, oh, it's okay. You know. I just was way
too serious about it, and thatactually helped me in this process to allow
people to be able to do that. Now we can be in there and
before they go to do what they'regoing to do, talk about the options
so that it's just like when Isend them into the game, I'm like,
Okay, we only have twenty threeseconds. If we miss here,

(30:26):
we're going to call the time out. If we're going to go, if
they're going to take the baseline,what are we going to do? What
do you want to think about?What if they're going to come on the
side. I can remind them andgive them all the cues that we do
as coaches, but once timeout's overand they head into position, it's all
their game. Man. They gotto do it right. So if they

(30:48):
tell me, all right, Joe, I'm doing this and here's the way
I'm gonna doing it, I'm goingto move ahead. I want you to
come back. I want you todo that, and I started calling for
them. I'm going to give themmy best rendition, do the best I
can for them. But it's stillup to them because now they have the
skill set to recognize getting themselves inthe right set up, getting themselves where
they have the correct shooting lanes,making sure that if that bull is moving

(31:11):
to an area that they're not goingto have a shot, that they actually
move and they're not. You know, they don't freeze up, lock up
and worry about blowing that elk outbecause they know they have to put themselves
in position or they're not going tohave any shot right understanding that if a
bull walks by them, they're notgoing to draw when the head gets behind
a tree, because they've learned fromme that if you draw when that heads

(31:33):
behind a tree, they're going tocatch the end of your draw and they're
going to do the thing that elkdo every dagum time is they're going to
stop and look at you broadside,and if you draw when that heads behind
the tree, they're going to comeout on the other side. They're going
to catch that. They're going tostop and look at you with a tree
in their kill zone. So theyknow to let that animal come into the

(31:56):
open. They're going to draw thatelk is going to stop, look at
them, and they're going to popthem. It's a fatal flaw of the
Dell Cave that we teach our guysto do that. So they have that
knowledge prior to and they just nowthey just need to perform. That's all
they gotta do. They got toperform. It's the same thing, dude.
I mean, I can't tell youhow many times as a coach,

(32:20):
like as a basketball and football coachthat I did. People come up and
they're like, well, why didn'tthey do da da da da? And
it's like, you don't think theyweren't coach to do that, you know,
But they still have to perform.They have to do it themselves on
the floor. I cannot play thegame for them. I can teach them
how to make decisions on the fly, I can give them all of the

(32:42):
skill sets, but they got toplay the game right. Yeah, And
that's that's super awesome. I've gotso many questions, man, I'm just
so intrigued and interested and fascinated bythis entire model because it's different than anything
I've ever seen I mean, I'veseen a lot of different structures of assisted

(33:04):
hunting, if you will, indifferent ways. But this is this is
completely unique. And so I'm goingto back up just a little bit so
I could be so scattered here,but I going back to the coaching,
the classes, the preparation in advanceof the hunt. Sure, I'm I'm
just assuming here, so you'll correctme if I'm wrong that that that change
is based on every hunting experience,in other words, or every hunting potential.

(33:27):
What I mean by that is,you know there's times that I'll draw
a hunt in a deep, remotewilderness area. Sure, And if I'm
getting coached on gear, I needto be coached on backpack gear. I'm
talking about wade, I'm talking abouta backpack hunt. Maybe maybe you have
a spike camp, maybe you're buvyhunting. I mean, it's it's a
completely different list of gear requirements,yep, and a completely different set of

(33:49):
expectations than maybe a hunt that's goingto be done more on a two track
forest road system, where an areathat absolutely blogging roads and things like that,
and you're set up in a basecamp and are not vivvying out for
days at a time. So sois each coaching session or educational preparation curriculum

(34:09):
specific to the type of hunt thatthat hunter would be expected. You know
that that hunter's signed up for essentially, yes, son next to offer such
a variety of different type of hunts. Now, actually we prepare them to
be able to do other things beyondus. So like, for example,
my gear guy guy do Planchier guyis just I am not a gear guy.

(34:31):
Man. You put a pack onme, a knife in here,
peanut butter and jelly, sanach,toilet paper and water, and I'm ready
to rock, right, Okay,I'm not the gear guy. Now.
I've done things in the last coupleof years. I've done some hammock trips
where I go out and I've huntedon my own and stuff like that pack
and everything on my back. Itwas a really cool experience and I've gained

(34:52):
some of that knowledge. But overthe years, all of my success has
been basically in a base camp backpackon my back, you know, taking
a four wheel getting area hunting fromthat, parking that bike and hunting from
there. But I've got a wholecrew with all different types of skill sets
and guy to Planchet is that guythat he's that dude that is spending fifteen

(35:15):
twenty you know days back in thewilderness, going back there everything on his
back, and he's got all theaspects of that, from everything you're gonna
cook with, how are you gonnado your water, how you're going to
filter, thinking about your mileage whenyou're taking something out. When you do
get an animal, how far backcan you really commit into the wilderness not

(35:36):
only to kill that animal, butto get that meat out safely so it
doesn't spoil. So and every hunterthat comes in with us has to be
prepared to spike out, So theyhave to be prepared to go out with
a camp on their back, becausethat is something that we try to do
with some of them as well.Like on this this last year, two
of us went out, two ofus spiked out with two different hunters and

(35:59):
two different directions. In fact,me and my hunter got caught in a
hailstorm that everything temperature dropped down totwenty degrees. This is real. This
is what happens man, when you'resix eight miles away from everything and you
have nothing but what's on your back, and if you're not ready you're gonna

(36:20):
be wet, you're gonna be cold, and you're putting yourself in a survival
situation. So yes, we dodo that. You know, we want
to give them. And what Itell my coaches is, yeah, okay,
they're gonna be in a base campwith us, right, that's going
to be what we're doing. We'regonna go to an area, we're gonna
start hunting from there. But Iwant them ready for whatever style they want

(36:40):
to do once they leave us.I don't want them. I don't want
to find out that somebody that leftus had a failure out in the woods
that put them in danger after theyleft. I want them to have a
skill set that's going to help themgo to that level of however they want
to hunt, right. Some peoplewant to go solo, some people want
to partner. Some people want,you know, three people together, four

(37:04):
people. We've hunted with as manyas five people together in the woods and
killed elk right there in front ofus. So you know it's like when
people they talk about, well,you know you can you can't have that
many people out there. You won'tsee anything, belooney man. You just
got to have a skill set anda coordination and communication so you can make
it happen. You know, itall comes down to play in the wind.

(37:29):
It all comes down to everybody knowingtheir role and how to communicate.
I don't care if it's you know, two three, four five, right,
So yeah, we actually we actuallydo teach that man. Man,
that's and that's and you're showing yourknowledge though, Jess, because what I've
heard out of coming out of yourmouth is somebody has an extensive outcutting skill

(37:51):
set. Man. So yeah,well that's that's that's really awesome, right,
I love that. And another questionI just I can't help but ask.
You've probably been asked this before,but you're hunting mostly public land on
these trips, right right or publicland trips now now the one where the
young lady went to again, nowthat is a managed ranch that we were
doing something and changing that, right, okay, But the hunt that we

(38:15):
do yes public land. So oneissue that is, and you've heard this
one hundred times, so I apologizeto be so boring with the question,
but I just can't help but ask. One issue that guides often talk about
is a situation where you take ahunter out and you take them to a
spot and then you come back ayear or two years later and a person
that you took to the spot isin the spot that you took them to.

(38:37):
And there's this whole like kind ofethical debacle that goes on in this
ethical debate and what's acceptable, what'snot, what's appropriate, what's not.
And I'm curious to hear your perspectiveon that, given that you're taking people
out with the primary objective of makingthem super successful do it yourself hunter folks,

(38:59):
where a lot of the guy thatI've heard this perspective from are guides
who would rather have the client bookagain and again. And I'm sure you
get plenty of repeat customers, butagain, the end goal sounds like eventually
after one trip or two or threeor whatever it takes, eventually the idea
is, like you said, withkids, you let them, you let
them go, right, you know, you let them go out on their
own and be successful without the coachpresent. How do you feel or or

(39:22):
what are your expectations with regard tothe spots that you're sharing with people on
these kind of coached hunts. Yeah, so that's a that's a mixed bag.
And I'll tell you even like whenI'm hunting by myself. You know,
people in my area know that I'msuccessful and they know my history of

(39:42):
elkhunty. So people in my areafocus on places where they find out where
I'm going, and they start theythink, Okay, that guy's successful,
I can do that too, rightwell, so they end up all going
there as well. Right But andand to me, it's like I hunt
high use areas anyway, and whereI'm at is is like okay, people

(40:07):
if they go there, it's likeanything. It's like I have people that
when I coach track and field,you know, we had an incredible successful
career doing that. So I wouldgo and give talks and do seminars on
track and field. I could giveyou, Jesse, my exact system.

(40:28):
I could give you everything that Ido in practice. I could give you
everything that I do as far asthe skills, I can give you how
I do it, the workouts.I can do all of that. Does
that mean you're going to be astate championship team? You know, just
because you have that, you stillhave to do it. You have to
put in the work, you haveto put in the time, you have

(40:51):
to develop the skill set, andyou've got to be a friggin grinder to
make it happen. You got tobelieve, you got to achieve, you
got to do all of that.So even though people are coming to the
area where I'm at, I betI could give them the exact place that
I killed in nanimal Man, itdoesn't mean they're going to kill anything.
They still have to do and putin the time and the work that I

(41:13):
do. There is no magic wandyou know you can't. That's like people
look at success rates. Everybody goeswhat's the success rate for an area?
And I tell them, you knowwhat, a success rate does not tell
you anything about the quality of thehunt. It tells you about the quality
of the hunters that were hunting.Right, So you can have an area

(41:36):
that didn't have a high success ratebecause the hunters sucked that went in there.
You know, they didn't put inthe time. They went out there
for one weekend or maybe they weregetting up late and they decide they want
to do more camping, do moredrinking or something like that, and so
they're not putting in the stuff ittakes to be able to be successful.
There's no And this is the beautyof a Jess, there's no difference in

(41:58):
success in the woods as there isin sex, success in your family,
your job, in your life.It takes work, It takes dedication,
motivation and getting dagum after it.And sometimes you got to take your lumps
and bumps. You got to realizethat it's not all peaches and cream.
You go on an elk hunt,there are going to be ten days of

(42:23):
grueling work for thirty seconds of themost incredible adventure of your life. Because
sometimes you don't see an animal,or you don't get an encounter, you
don't have that stuff happening, andthen all of a sudden, boom,
it just all changes in like thirtyseconds. And people, I always hear

(42:43):
this from hunters. It happened sofast, right, you know it happens
fast. So to answer your questionis I actually we've dealt with this already.
Like we had one class that camein hunting with us. The biggest
problem is they want to continue huntingwith us, So they want to be
close to us, and they wantto be able to come and see us
at camp and stuff like that.Right, they just enjoy our company.

(43:07):
So I really wish September was sixmonths long, so I could hunt with
everybody, but it's limited as finite. But the fellow I told you about
they killed the elk on day one, came back and he said, Joe,
how do you feel about me huntthere? I was like, bro,
it's public land, period, youknow, you have to make the

(43:27):
decisions where you're going. And hegoes, well, I don't want to
step on your toes. I waslike, you're like any other hunter I
come across. You know, IfI have to change my game plan because
of what you're doing, then that'son me. If you have to change
your game plan because of what I'mdoing, that's on you. So I
don't really stress over that, youknow. And I mean like my guys.
My guys always like, man,don't be telling them our honey holes,

(43:50):
you know, And I'm like,they still got to do it,
you know, Yeah, I mean, and pretty soon. And that's like
I when we sell tags, right, because the only way that we can
do this because the question you haven'tasked me is like, well, how
do you get taxed for these guys? I want to hit that for a
second there, But I don't reallystress too much over it as long as,

(44:13):
like, you know, in fact, I tell them come by camp
and visit us. Man, Ienjoy their company. Let's talk. I
want to be a good ambassador,right. I want them to be successful.
I want them to have great experiences. That's what our bottom line should
be. Right. Our bottom lineis is, Man, if we help
other people, other people help us. And because I don't stress over people

(44:35):
coming to this one place that theyhunted before, they might and they might
go to another place another time andgo yo, man, come try this
out right. And I have somany people that do that. They're so
willing to give me places to go. Why should I act like I own
an area? Now, Yeah,if they came in and they went I'll

(45:00):
tell you this too. I didn'ttell them where to go. They did
the work. So they had todo all the scouting, they had to
do all the east scouting, Theyhad to determine where we went. They
had to do all of that.So it's not like it was my place
that we're going back to that placethat Adam killed his bull that year he
went back up there, he foundthat he put himself at eleven five,

(45:21):
coming from California on the first day, had his head splitting from altitude sickness.
He put himself in that situation.I didn't put him there, so
I'm nobody to tell him not tocome back. Right, yeah, Okay,
Now the question you didn't ask islike, well, you got these
people that are buying this hunt,how do you get them on public land?

(45:43):
Right? Well, there's some peoplethat wait for a draw to happen
and they offer a service. Theonly problem with that is we have to
be permitted right for a certain placein a certain area, so you have
to plan some things out. Sowhat I look for, and it's been
very, very difficult to do,is we've actually had to purchase unit wide

(46:06):
landowner tags and then charge above thatto be able to pay my coaches.
So and get this, I mean, you know what has happened since COVID
and where tags are going and everythinglike that. Well, last year,
for two months of education, acoach there meals every night, snacks during

(46:27):
the day, provided we charge sixtyfive hundred dollars. Now you try to
get you take a guided experience whereyou're just going to go out there and
you're going to follow somebody and thenyou leave with no knowledge. And we're
doing all of that and most mostplaces are charging above that, you know
what I mean. And we didit for sixty five hundred dollars this year

(46:47):
because of the jack and the pricesof tags, We're going to have to
go seven because I'm paying tag pricesright, so that I can bring people
into a camp and then be ableto teach them. Our goal though,
is to have that experience and keepdeveloping what we're doing because I think it's
changing the game. This is sometotally different. In fact, no state

(47:09):
is ready for what I do.Like New Mexico, I am not guiding,
right, and the only reason Igive them food and stuff I I
originally had them bringing their own food, their own tent, no services.
So if I'm not giving any services, I'm really not outfitting right. But
try to convince or put an officerin that position coming out where a guy

(47:34):
is with somebody from an organization.It's just it's going to be something that
would have to be tried out incourts. That's where it would be ended
up. So what I did wasI just went and got my outfitting license.
I got my guide so that theyare licensed as well, so that
we can consult and teach and coachyeah, right, Yeah, well,

(47:54):
I mean you're paving a new pathin unexplored territory, and so it's it's
really remarkable. It's really amazing.And our listeners will absolutely know how I
feel about E plus and how Ifeel about Unit White ELK tags, and
you and I've had those conversations aboutand while I, while I do think
that there are some significant deficiencies inour E plus system, I would also

(48:15):
say that what you're doing with itand what you're doing with those tags is
really remarkable. And I think you'reyou're you're making the absolute best possible use
of that of that system that I'veoften been very vocal about my disagreement with,
but I really appreciate and value whatyou're doing with it. So thank
you for that, Joe, andthank you for for the mentorship that you're

(48:36):
providing to all these hunters and teachingthem to be ethical and to operate with
integrity and be good stewards of theland and also be good ambassadors for the
sports so that we can continue doingit, going back to the to the
to the hunt itself. As Ihelp new hunters, which I do periodically,
you know, and then new hunterswill draw tag. If I'm available,
I'm happy to accompany them and helpout of whatever. One of the

(48:59):
one of the things that a lotof new hunters I've experienced, I've experienced
a lot of new hunters are veryintimidated with the process that occurs once the
elk has expired. Yeah, youknow, it's the field dressing, it's
the pack out, it's the caping, it's that stuff. Because even even
hunters who hunted smaller game, youknow, when you get a seven hundred

(49:21):
pound animal on the ground and youwalk up to it, that can be
a very intimidating moment for a lotof people. So what is elk Bros?
What role does elk bros play inthat process? Yeah, so we're
there to talk them through it.You know, we want them hands on.
It's going to take a little longerbecause their hands on, but we're
absolutely doing that so that they can. You know, I've got actual video

(49:45):
of a guy doing it. Gosh, I don't know, it's probably ten
o'clock at night doing an animal.You know. Adam, the guy that
got his when I wasn't there.He literally because he was high enough,
he literally called me from the topof the mountain. He's at eleven five,
He's up four hours on a trail. Calls me and says, Joe

(50:06):
Man. He says, I'm reallyscared. He's like, I'm not feeling
right. Things are kind of I'mfeeling a little confused. I'm really worried
about this animal. I've got thequarters. And what I loved about that
was his concern for the animals,So a plus on what we've been teaching
him, right. And I justtold him. I was like, Adam,

(50:29):
Okay, the situation you're in rightnow, you have altitude sickness.
It's going to be thirty degrees tonight. You have the quarters off. I
want you to get them over,make sure that you have them hanging right
where it's at. I want youto drop everything, get back to camp.
I want you to start drinking somewater, eat some food, get
in your bag, go to sleep. I'll see you in the morning.

(50:50):
And I grab some guys because andwe were at his tent by daylight to
be with them to help him actuallyget that animal out right. But one
thing he learned in that was havingto pack some of that animal back and
forth to his camp was he wasnot sufficiently mentally prepared for that or physically,

(51:13):
you know, he put himself ina situation that he wasn't necessarily ready
for and he's like, I'm soglad I had you guys come up to
help me. So that was initself a learning process for him. Right,
So you know, we actually arethere to do that, and we
do some talk of that, andI've got I'm partnering with a guy Mike,

(51:37):
that has an app called cut Rightcut ri te. The cut Right
app is an actual app that youcan go to and it will show you
how to break down an animal,right. So we're partnering with them.
So every person that takes my academyand they get my Academy when they buy
this hunt. So everyone that getsthat, they get thirty percent off of

(51:58):
these calls. They get thirty percentoff the cut Right App. I want
to make sure that they have thatin the hand. And I'm actually partner
with some guys right now that we'remaking an app called Echo that actually it's
a how and the I guess thebest way to see it say it is
it's an enunciation app that actually coachesand teaches them how to make the elk

(52:22):
sounds visually and audibly. It's justjust it's a practice focused app for elk
calling as Wow, Yeah, that'sright. Yeah, that's that state of
the art. I've never seen anythinglike that, It's never been done.
It's so cool. You usually haveto listen to somebody and then you're like,
but you don't know really how goodyou sound, and if you're tone

(52:43):
deaf, you really don't know.And so it's not only auditory, it's
visually in the way that you cando this. So it's a pretty cool
deal. So you've got, youknow, over forty years of elk cutting
experience, you've accomplished a success ratethat's almost unheard of in Western hunting period,
not just elk cunning and Western huntingperiod. You do most of that
with a bow and arrow. You'rea very proficient caller. But just recently

(53:05):
you actually came out with your ownelk call. Is that right? You
want to ask a little bit aboutthat, because that's exciting. Yeah,
it is. So we have wehave our own reads, our own reads
that we manufacture that our signature reads. And I wanted things that were specific
to what I try to do inthe woods and that would help people.
You know in the woods with certainaspects. So we have those signature reads

(53:30):
and we've got one that's coming outthat's called the Juice that it has a
it has a palette dome on itthat's never been seen. It's my X
series. It's never been done.Wait till you see it, Jess.
It's pretty cool. But the otherthing though, that the thing that I
really think is the key to successis my bugle to the soloists, and

(53:52):
the soloist is not a It isnot a whiffle back form type of bugle
too. It is a flex thatI can actually under my arm and throw
my calls back behind me. Ithas a mouthpiece on it that is baffled
and constricted so that you get backpressure like you do with those other tubes.

(54:12):
But it lets me do the thingsthat are going to make an animal
think that I am further back thanwhat I am. I never want them
to know my location. Once theyknow my location, I'm peg. So
if I have a bull that isgoing to hang up at eighty yards whichever
you hear everybody, Oh he wasout there at eighty hundred yards right,
Well, if I'm throwing my callslooking forward at my target animal, throwing

(54:36):
my calls back behind me so thathe thinks I'm another forty fifty or sixty
yards back. Now if that bullhangs up, now he's forty yards from
me, thirty yards from me insteadof one hundred and eighty yards out there.
Right. So I'm real proud ofthe soloist because it's been to do
something like that and to see peoplebeing successful with it. The woods,

(55:00):
you don't understand what that means,you know, to help people have success
using something that you created. Imean as a kid, you know,
there was Larry D. Jones,there was Wayne Carlton, you know,
Dwight Shoe, all these guys thatwe looked up to. Man that we're
buying their calls. These guys arerock stars, you know, And the

(55:22):
fact that people out there using somethingI'm producing is like, because I've definitely
never thought of myself as a rockstar, but to be doing that,
I honestly, Jess, I don'tknow if you know what that means to
me in my heart and soul.Man, Man, well that's cool,
Joe, And you may not thinkof yourself as a rock star, but

(55:44):
I can guarantee you that a lotof the people that you've helped out,
a lot of the people that you'vetaken hunting and that you've mentored and that
you've coached. Definitely do think ofyou as a rock star. And I'm
just so excited about this program andexcited for what you're doing for hunting in
general. And I'd like you totell folks where they can find you,
where they can learn more about you, where they can sign up social media.

(56:04):
You've got your own podcast, Yes, we do talk about that.
Let's get Yeah, that's so mylisteners listening to your podcast. So it's
called blue Collar Elk Cunting. I'msuper proud of that. If you have
Apple Podcasts on your phone and yousimply go in and you put ELK Hunting
in the search, it's going tocome up with ELK Talk, which is
Randy Neuberg and Corey Jacobson who arephenomenally been doing it for years, and

(56:27):
then you're going to see blue Collarel Cunting. We're usually second or third
in the list in the nation onthe podcast. And you can listen to
our podcast and pick up all ofthis free information because we do not hold
back. We teach, we coach, we share, you're going to also
listen. We do that like we'rearound the campfire. We want people to

(56:49):
feel like we're talking to them,not at them. We want to invite
them in. It's me and theboys most of the time. Sometimes I
do some with individuals, like Ihave people that we'll send me an email
that they've been successful. I givethem a phone call, we have a
conversation, and we make that intoan educational show right there, right.
So I'll do somewhere with just meand some people. But most of the

(57:10):
time it's me and the boys,and we're talking about specific aspects of ELK
Honey. And I tell you what, when I started this, I was
like, well, what are wegoing to do after the first thirty shows,
you know, I'm like, howdo we chieve talking about this?
And we're on two hundred and thirteenbro, I mean, wow, we
have that many episodes and most ofthem are an hour and a half to

(57:31):
two hours long. We do amailbox, we talk to each other.
Again, it's like a campfire thing. We do shout outs to our listeners.
So you can find that. It'scalled blue Collar ELK Honey. If
you want anything else, ELK Bros, You just go to elkbros elk broos
dot com and you in there,you can find everything that we're doing.

(57:53):
You can find stories, you canfind our gear, you can find our
academy all of that there, oryou can go to Instagram. We're at
elkbros on Instagram e l k br os, So everything's right there.
Our our outfitting side is Elkbro's Adventures, but it's all tied into Elkbros and

(58:15):
we've got some other cool things thatare coming. We've got some really cool
stuff that we're we're preparing right nowtoo. I'm just I'm so excited about
helping people have experiences because right now, people out in the country right now

(58:36):
that want to do this, ouruncles aren't doing it, our grandpas aren't
doing it, our dad's like theyused to. Right we always got passed
down. And if you go toa pro shop, you don't know what
questions to ask, and it's sointimidating. If you go on a forum,
you get blasted, you know.So we've got things that we're doing

(58:57):
besides just elk hunting. We're goingto try to extend this out so that
people can actually find mentors in anyoutdoor type of event. So I'm real
excited about that and what that's goingto be too. Well, that's awesome,
Joe. You're providing an unbelievable serviceto a lot of people, helping
folks out. Man, it's soso appreciated, and even even here at
the show, I mean, you'reyou're you're coaching people, hundreds of people

(59:21):
a day stopping by the show,and I know because I hear you calling,
I hear you teaching them how tocall. I hear you explaining why
you're calling and what the call meansand the expected outcome of a particular call,
and so all of that outreach reallymeans a lot to me. You
know, at the Mexico Wildlife Federation, we rely on hunters and anglers to
support the organization. We rely onhunters coming into our ranks, right,

(59:43):
you know absolutely what we've seen overyou know previously, this is getting a
lot better. But we used tosee that the average age of hunters was
going up and up and up,and we weren't bringing enough new people in.
We weren't bringing enough young people in. And you're you're making a tremendous
impact in that space, and Ijust I really want to thank you for
everything you're doing and thank you foryour time today on the show. Man.

(01:00:05):
It's so great to have you on. I've been wanting to do this.
We've talked about it for years,it seems like, and we finally
made it happen. So thanks fordoing it, Joe. I really appreciate
it. Man. Yeah, thankyou, jesse Man and everything that you
know. Look, dude, youand I have talked, and when you're
in a position where you're trying tomake things better, it's always going to
be. Look, if you're notin trouble, if you're not making somebody

(01:00:29):
mad, you're not doing anything right. And the Wildlife Federation has been a
huge part of our life up inCimmer in New Mexico. I mean there's
things in battles that have had tohappen up there, and there will always
be that you and I have notagreed on everything. I'd die, but
that doesn't matter. That's how wegrow, man. If all of us
are always yes people agreeing, thenwe don't grow as a society as people.

(01:00:52):
As a community, we need eachother and we need those ideas and
we need to feed off. Butthe bottom line is understand that we all
want the same thing in the end, right, we want people to have
this experience. We want people livesto be changed, enriched and to have
those opportunities in that we're on thesame team no matter what, and it

(01:01:15):
doesn't have to be the same way, but by working together and all of
us and all of us are ashunters and have to understand that and quit
digging into into each other about whatweapon or the style or that cultural thing
that they do because of the regionthey're in and how they were brought up.

(01:01:36):
We all have passions, man,as long as it's legal, it's
following laws, it's honoring the animal. We need to support each other and
quit all this in stuff and startbringing other people from the outside. End.
Man, I couldn't agree more.Super well, said Joe. What
a strong point to end on.Thank you, brother, I appreciate you

(01:01:57):
absolutely. Just thank you man.Thanks for listening to the Yahiva podcast produced
by Driftwood Outdoors.