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May 1, 2024 66 mins
On this very special episode of the show Jesse Deubel sits down to have a candid conversation with his good friend and mentor, Kent Salazar. Kent worked for 20 years as a director of environmental health for the City of Albuquerque. He was appointed by NM Governor Johnson to the Western Governors Grand Canyon Visibility Transport Commission to develop regulations to improve visibility in Class 1 wildlife areas; and Governor Richardson to serve on the NM Climate Change Task Force and develop transportation CO reduction programs. In 2009, he was appointed by NM Senator Jeff Bingaman to serve on the U.S. Senate's Outdoor Resources Review Group. Starting in 2009, he served a three year term as a New Mexico State Game Commissioner being appointed by NM Governor Bill Richardson. In 2011, he was appointed by President Barack Obama to Chair the Valles Caldera National Trust Board which he helped transition to a National Park and Preserve. This is a very condensed version of Kent's biography. His conservation accomplishments are too extensive to list. He is a wealth of knowledge and a true inspiration. Enjoy the listen!  

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Episode Transcript

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(00:00):
We are right in the middle ofspring Turkey season here in New Mexico,
and this morning I had the opportunityto do something so much more special,
even than calling to a roosted tomprior to sunrise on a beautiful mountain ridge
somewhere in the HeLa Wilderness or elsewherein New Mexico, I had the opportunity

(00:21):
to sit outside with a very closefriend of mine, mister Kent Salazar.
This is Jesse Dubell. I'm theexecutive director of the New Mexico Wildlife Federation,
and over the years, Kent Salazarhas been an incredible friend, a
wonderful colleague, and one of thegreatest mentors I've had in my conservation career.

(00:42):
Kent is an unbelievable person with ahuge heart, loved by everyone who
meets him, and he's a manof great wisdom, and it brings me
so much pleasure to be able toshare some of that wisdom with the listeners
of the IVA podcast. Rather thantry to introduce Kent myself, what I'm
going to do is I'm going toplay a clip from New Mexico Senior United

(01:03):
States Senator Martin Heinrich last June SenatorHeinrich honored Kent Salazar as a public lands
champion on the Senate floor. SoI'll play this clip from Senator Heinrich,
and immediately after that we'll listen toKent Salazar himself. Thank you so much
for joining us on this very specialedition of the IVA Podcast, Mister President.

(01:26):
In the Hames Mountains of New Mexico, there is a stunning thirteen mile
wide crater that was created by acollapsed super volcano. What's now known as
the Vias caled Aera National Preserve ishome to deep grassy valley's volcanic cinder cones,

(01:48):
crystal clear trout streams, and someof the best al cabitat in North
America. The Vias cald Aera NationalPreserve is one of the most beautiful places
on the planet, but for manymany decades, most New Mexicans could only
peer into its edge from the sideof a road. The entire caldera was

(02:10):
privately owned. That has since changed. In two thousand, we used the
Land and Water Conservation Fund to purchasethe Bias Caldera, but it took nearly
a decade and a half after thatto see truly meaningful public access one New

(02:30):
Mexican deserves an enormous amount of creditfor unlocking the Viias Caldera and its scenic
hiking trails, its elk hunting,and its trout fishing. That New Mexican
is Kent Salazar. As a memberof the New Mexico Game Commission, Kent
fought to undo a system that allowedwealthy and out of state hunters to purchase

(02:53):
greater access to elk hunting than everydayNew Mexicans or Americans. In the face
of big money opposition, Kent pushedto establish a fair and equal lottery system
that honored the principle of one person, one chance, and he succeeded.

(03:15):
I have personally harvested two all inthe Caldera, thanks in part to the
changes that Kent made. Then,after President Obama appointed Kent to lead the
Vice Caldera Board of Trustees, hequickly became a champion for transitioning the Vice
Caldera to a National Park Service managedpreserve. This change has expanded public access

(03:38):
and made it possible for many moreNew Mexicans and for visitors from around the
world to experience this incredible landscape.It also protected the public's fair access to
both hunting and fishing, and noneof this would have been possible without the
determination, leadership, and vision ofmy friend Kent Salasar. A lifelong New

(04:04):
Mexican, Kent has dedicated himself tothe idea that the outdoors are for everyone,
not just for those with wealth orfamily connections, and from an early
age, Kent found that time spentoutdoors brought him a sense of renewal,
and ever since he has worked tomake sure that all New Mexicans and all

(04:27):
Americans can build a connection with nature. For twenty years, as a public
administrator, can't work to make ourland and air and water safer and healthier
at the City of Albuquerque's Environmental HealthDepartment. An avid hunter, angler,
and outdoorsman, Kent also breathe newlife into the New Mexico Wildlife Federation.

(04:51):
The legendary conservationist Aldo Leopold founded theorganization that became the New Mexico Wildlife Federation
more than a century ago, butwhen Kent took the reins, the organization
had no staff and no real drivingmission. Even so, Kent saw the

(05:11):
incredible potential if he could reinvigorate theorganization, and that he did. Under
Kent's leadership, the New Mexico WildlifeFederation grew its membership dramatically and hired professional
staff. Today, the New MexicoWildlife Federation is one of the most influential
grassroots organizations in our state. Theorganization has become much more active and much

(05:36):
more effective in protecting iconic New Mexicolandscapes, including the Villa Vidal, the
Savignosa Wilderness, and the Rio Grandedel Norte National Monument. The impact of
Kent's leadership has also grown nationally.Three years ago, Kent was elected unanimously

(05:58):
to serve as the chairman of thenow National Wildlife Federation's Board of Directors.
With the National Wildlife Federation, Kenthelped lead the charge to secure permanent and
dedicated funding for the Land and WaterConservation Fund and pass historic investments in landscape
restoration as part of the Inflation ReductionAct, and he is still helping us

(06:21):
today as we work to pass thebipartisan Recovering America's Wildlife Act. Kent also
helped to found the Green Leadership Trustand Hispanics Enjoying camping, hunting, and
the outdoors or et shoe. Throughall of this I have especially appreciated Ken's

(06:42):
kindness and passion, his pragmatism andknowledge, his devoted focus on making the
conservation movement more inclusive and mentoring thenext generation of conservation leaders, the way
he keeps an open mind thanks toothers, and always seems to drive the
whole room in a more productive direction. Kent's name might not make it to

(07:08):
the newspaper that often, but itshould. He is one of the most
effective conservation leaders of our time.Kent once said, if we get the
right people involved, we can accomplisha lot and help our communities and our
future, our children. He's absolutelyright. We are all better off because

(07:30):
Kent is involved, serving our communities, our future, and our children.
I am extraordinarily grateful to have workedwith and learned from Kent for all these
years, and I am honored tocall him a friend. Kent, we
cannot thank you enough for everything thatyou have done to inspire New Mexicans and

(07:54):
to care for the land of Enchantment. Thank you, mister president. The
New Mexico Wildlife Federation presents the Ahivapodcast. So Kent Salazar an icon of
conservation in New Mexico. A conservationlegend. Tell me a little bit about

(08:15):
yourself, Kent. Are you alifelong New Mexican. Yes, But I
was born into a military family,so we traveled a lot. I was
born in Denver, Colorado, along time ago, and my dad was
an aircraft mechanic and he was doingforty seven Z. And then we moved

(08:37):
down here to Kirtland and we werestationed here, and he built this house
after the war and stuff, andthat I'm staying and now we were renting
it, but I'm living here now. I went after that to you Arizona.
We lived in a lemon grove withpickers families, which was kind of
interesting. I went to an allblack school. It was segregated in those

(09:01):
days. So, uh, mysisters went to all white school and and
for me it was dark skin.They put me in they separated us,
and they put me in an allblack school. Wow, So you and
your sisters were separated as far asyou're education is concerned because of the color
of your skin exactly. And itwas all black. And the school I

(09:22):
was in there there were four nonblacks and there were Hispanics, and they're
all pickers. Everybody was pickers upfor us, you know, uh,
but it was it was a differenttime, you know. And I'll tell
you about that. Following that,we moved to uh to Florida, Tampa,
Florida, to a sac base.It was that time with a with
a Cuban missile crisis and all thatjust before that. But we were doing

(09:46):
observations of different areas and we werein a radar attack squadron, my dad
was, and so we we movedover there, and oh my god,
what a what a difference. Theywouldn't service In Lubbock, Texas. At
the Denny's, they refused to servethe family, and my dad got really
upset because he's like a commander ofhis wing and the main and non calm.

(10:07):
So he pulls out his orders anddemanded that they service, and they
didn't for a while, and thenhe said, if you don't, I'm
gonna have the base here put youoff limits. And so they said,
well, well serve you, wellserve you, and they said take his
order, and my mom said,al please, let's go. You know,
they're gonna spit in our food andstuff like that. And that's the

(10:30):
first time I ever saw my dadcry. He'd fought in two wars and
a third war. He was inWorld War two and Korea, and then
he served in Vietnam and then hecame back to this and they wouldn't they
wouldn't serve him at the Dennis,you know, and he was very upset
and we just drove. We drovestraight from there. We drove across country
all almost all the way down toGeorgia or something like that. We had

(10:54):
a camper and stuff. And Igrew up in a family from northern New
Mexico, my blood from up there. And uh my grandparents I lived with
a lot lived in Rainsville, NewMexico, the Montoya's, and he had
a huge sheep ranch and a lotof land. And uh so I grew
up with my grandfather mostly, andthen my uncles lived in Bernal over that

(11:16):
chapel it was back in those days, but they were they were again Hispanics,
Salasadis, and they were they raiseda cattle and beans and squash and
corn, you know, dry noirrigation, dry field farming, and they
were into racing horses, you know. So there it was. It was

(11:37):
a very interesting upbringing. But Ilearned probably the most about wildlife and respect
for animals. For my grandfather,the Metro on Montoya, and he was
Basque. He was his roots wereBasque. He's blonde and uh and blue
eyed with with little rosy cheeks.I always remember him, and he just

(11:58):
loved animals, all kinds. Hetaught me how to you know, we're
sheep ranchers, so he taught mehow to slaughter animals. When I was
nine, I had to slaughter myown sheep, and so he showed me
how and how to do it kosher, so it didn't hurt the animals,
you know, a strong knife,and how to grab them and hold them
and bleed them out real quick,you know. And so I always remember

(12:22):
him like that. My grandmother wouldhave me go shoot squirrels sometimes to vary
the diet, you know, butpretty much he never hunted, you know.
We had cougars on the ranch,black bears. The big problem was
coyotes, of course. You knowthey say about coyotes and sheep, Well
it's true, and so most ofthe time we dealt with them pretty good.

(12:43):
We had sheep dogs, but wehad a flock that came in of
about twelve coyotes and in the upperpasture, and they started decimating the hurts.
So we brought them all into thelowlands and low rolling hills with oak
trees, and we set up atnight and uh, my uncles and I

(13:05):
set up there and with lanterns,and when the we he said, yavi
a yavia, and here they come, you know. And sure enough,
this little string you could see inthe moonlight. These coyotes came off the
hills and they got around the herd, and the herds, I don't know,
sheep mill, I don't know,if you know, they get scared
and they start milling. And thecoyotes, it was amazing. They jumped

(13:26):
on the backs of the sheep andthey ran into the middle. We couldn't
shoot them, and then they droppedin and they started slashing throats, you
know, and my uncle said,start shooting, start saying. We turned
on the truck lights and start shootingand walking toward the herd, and they
they're like a spear. They'd madea dash for the mountains, you know,
full out running, you know,And we opened up. And that's

(13:50):
how I learned about it about thoseyou know. It took forever to try
to get rid of that herd,that flock of coyotes. We called in
the annual mop people, the federalpeople, and they put these bombs in.
Well, they killed other animals andget My grandfather was just furious about
it and said, get that stuffoff my land. You know, he

(14:11):
didn't like that poison. I thinkit was signing that gas a gun that
goes off when you pull a bait. And he was just worried about his
dogs and the sheep and everything else. So I grew up with a great
respect for wildlife and and we couldall live together, you know. He
was very adamant about that. Youknow. We didn't mess with the cougars

(14:31):
or the bears or anything unless theyunless they messed with us, you know.
And so I grew up like that. And every every winter back then
you could you could get a licensefor nine dollars and you get deer,
bear and turkey for nine bucks.And every year we'd get one and we'd
go out and I'd take a deerin a turkey. I didn't take a

(14:52):
bear. There were very few ofthem, and my grandfather didn't like us
messing with them, so we butI he's got a deer and a turkey,
And then that was a big deal. It made me feel good.
I was a little kid ten yearsold, you know, and you get
you get a turkey or deer,and you bring it home and everybody's making
a big deal out of it becauseyou're feeding the family, you know.

(15:15):
And that was a big deal thatwe I helped feed the family, and
so I always remember that from them. So a lot of my roots and
hunting and that sort of thing.My father's folks were adamant hunters. That's
every year, every chance they gotthere were out hunting, you know,
and they went on horseback up thehills, the flat maces up there.

(15:35):
And I have to say this aboutmy father, he was He taught me
to shoot with a single shot Remingtonrolling block, and he said, you
don't you don't take a shot unlessyou're going to put it down and you
have respect for them when you takeit quick and clean. So I learned
that, you know, and Icarry that to my life. I hunted

(15:56):
with single shots for years now.As I got older, I s with
a Ruger Number one. But thenI started getting into customizing rifles and doing
things. You know how guys dowhen they get kind of bored with things,
start working on things. And Ihad a friend I worked with Larry
Coddle, and he was a mastergunsmith and he made custom stocks, and

(16:18):
he taught me how to do customstocks. So I started making rifles for
myself. I'd get an old Mauseraction and I'd buy it real cheap forty
bucks or something still in cosmoly,and clean it up through all the surfaces,
reburrol it, you know, fitit on a nice walnut stock,
you know. And I didn't learnto checker. I'm still not very good

(16:41):
checker. I prefer to go toa pro on that. I use a
woman here in town. But thereI learned, you know, when you
have a gun like that and yourespect it. And my dad taught me
to respect firearms and stuff, andI think that's a big difference. I
see now most of my nephews theydon't hunt, which you know everybody when

(17:07):
I was a kid. But Ihave one that I took him a pheasant
hunting, and ever since I tookhim pheasant hunting, he loves to go
peasant and he brings his friends andwe go. I took him to Kansas.
I have some friends over there,and so he's taken me to different
places but I go every year,and I still go out there. I
still have pheasant in my fridge fromthis last hunt, you know. But

(17:30):
I still love hunting, and Imiss it now that I can't. I'm
having some health issues, so Ican't get out and hunt, and people
don't want me out. I havefriends who will take me up and buy
horseback and drop me off because I'vealways hunted alone. That's another thing.
Probably you shouldn't hunt alone, butI grew up hunting alone on the ranch,
you know, and I've always huntedalone. And I see more more

(17:52):
game that way, and I spotin stock. But as I was hunting
oftentimes when I got older, Inoticed that there weren't as many deer.
There just weren't any deer, andso I was really concerned about that.
And Larry Coddle said, well,if you really concerned about it, then

(18:15):
you should do something about it.You can go to the game meetings.
And I said, oh, Ican do that, you know. So
I went to them and I toldhim, you know about the decreasing populations
and stuff like that, and theysaid, well how do you know that?
And sure, go ahead, whatyear roughly would it have been when
you attended your first game commission meeting. Oh god, roughly about nineteen seventy

(18:38):
somewhere in there. Okay, soyou attend the game commission meeting because you're
concerned about the hunting, Yes,finding deers, Okay, continue, I
didn't mean, well, no,it's fine. So I started. I'm
a biologist, and I worked forthirty years as an environmentalist with the city
and the state and working in water, air out animal control. I started

(18:59):
the National Animal Control Association here inNew Mexico because the way we were putting
down dogs, stray dogs, waswas not right we were it was inhumane.
So I started this to teach peoplehow to how to humanely euthanize animals.
And and I worked with Lisa Jennings. I'm passing the first fighting bill
to stop you know, everybody thoughtit was fine to have pit bulls and

(19:23):
fighting dogs and gamble on it andstuff like that. And so Lisa Jennings,
just for our audience, is affiliatedwith the Animal Protection Voters of New
Mexico. So you, as aas an avid hunter, partnered with Animal
Protection Voters of New Mexico, anorganization that has differing opinions about hunting exactly,
and you work together, yes,accomplish this goal of the inhumane practice

(19:47):
of dog fighting exactly. And Ithink that's that taught me a lot,
you know, because not very noneof the other unders wanted to do that,
you know, they were just totallyagainst animal protection for some of that.
And I said why, I said, you know, we all stand
together on this, and it's thesame thing with like water and clean air.
They said, well, we don'thave time to work on that.

(20:10):
I said, everybody has to havetime to work on clean water and clean
air. And not only does itaffect wildlife and our streams and everything else,
it affects us and our children.So all these issues you need to
and I just I just thought,you know, I started to learn about
attending the legislature and finding bills thatI was that I had an interest in,

(20:32):
and I would make statements in frontof the legislators and say why I
thought this was important, and Ithink we all need to do that.
Larry's statement is, oh, ifyou're so concerned, and why don't you
do something about it. If you'reso concerned about dwindling numbers or the licenses
going to to landowners, and youshould get involved. You need to get

(20:57):
involved. I don't care what theissue is is. You need to get
involved. And you need to learnyour legislators. If you don't personally know
who your legislators are, I'm sorry, but that's just wrong. It's like
having family and never talking to them. I worked with Gail Chasey here and
the Thing, and Antonette Sidio Lopez. I worked with all my legislators,

(21:18):
and I know which ones will carrymy bills, wildlife bills, because I
got involved with the New Mexical WildlifeFederation because I started at tending well there
at that time the woods. Thisyoung, not young couple, a couple,
an older couple ran the program downsouth out of Las Cruse's and they

(21:41):
they were all just gung All theydid was gung ho, game and fish.
They didn't care if they were doingsomething wrong or not. They were
just all about being friends with them. And I went and I said,
well, what are we going todo about this bill? They're doing what
they're doing, and they they didn't. They said, oh, they can't
do any wrong. I'm sorry foryou know, but we all do something

(22:02):
wrong at some time and we needto be called out on it. And
uh, and you do it respectfullyand you go in and you have you
say why so I uh. Theywere setting limits in certain areas the Heelo
where I hunted, they were settingthese and there just weren't that many elk
in there. And they said,oh, yes, they're the rancher.

(22:22):
I won't say his name, buthe's still down there, still doing it.
And now now he's outfitting big time. But he said, well,
I went up to this meadow andthere were all these yearlings, and this
year I go up and there weren'tany yearlings there. And I said,
well, you know, they movearound, you know, and they get
spooky. And the thing now withthe wolves and stuff, is they get
spooky. And he was trying toblame the lack of elk on the wolves.

(22:48):
And in reality, if you ifyou went out and spent time with
the wolves and in the elk,you notice that the elk were much spookier.
They weren't like cattle anymore. Theyweren't grazing out there like a cow.
They they every step you made ora sound that'd spook and they'd go
they'd move, So they became morelike a wild animal again instead of very

(23:08):
calmly sitting there and let it shootthem, you know that whole issue.
I decided I was gonna run forthe game commission too, because they just
weren't listening to us, and Ifelt that game management should be done scientifically.

(23:30):
Before you set a quota, youoverfly the area, you do a
count, and then you know what'sout there. Then you can set your
quotas you know, this taking somebody'sword on it or saying that because a
rancher sees too many of them onhis land. You know, there could
be a lot of reasons for that. Usually it's water access. But you

(23:53):
can do things about those things withouthammering the wildlife. You can do all
those things, you know, scientificallyif you do it with that that mind
on it, and we you know, I guess I should go back when
I when I started with the WildlifeFederation, I was looking at the history

(24:15):
and Aldo Leopold was our first directorand he was the ranger down in the
four Service in Nihila and uh Inthose days, the cattleman ran ran the
country because they were looking at producingbeef and wool and leather for for the
fighting men in the war. WorldWar One and World War two. So

(24:37):
they were so they got their waywhatever they wanted. Well, the big
thing was they just overgrazed. Ifyou read his books, and I urge
you to read his books, andhe was the ranger out there, and
there's ruts out there and the royalsthat came in from overgrazing from erosion,
and it was because we we totallydestroyed the the natural ecosystem had. Uh

(25:03):
we just opened the range to wildlife. There were no quotas. They could
put as many as they wanted toon our land. Our land is the
forest by the way I'm talking about. And uh so that was an issue.
I mean, uh, they justwere just hammering it and they killed
all the elk. And when Iwas reading the Annals of New Mexico Wildlife,

(25:26):
we had a southern grizzly bear thatwas well populated in the HeLa,
and we hired people and some ofthem are famous now from their legends down
in the Hila for killing bears andgrizzlies. And the last grizzly was killed
in the HeLa quite a while back, but it was actually it had moved
down into Mexico and was slaughtered ona ranch down there. But Not only

(25:49):
did we lose the grizzly, welost the Mexican wolves. They shot them
out. They killed all the wolvesotters. You would think otters wouldn't bother
anybody, but they felt otters werean issue and they killed all the otters.
So we lost the grizzlies, theotters, the fox, the bobcats,

(26:11):
the wolves. It was just itwas amazing to me looking at the
numbers, and because there's federal thingsabout how many animals they took each year,
and they just went down and down. And then the elk. They
decided the elk were competing for grazing. So we had a Miriam's elk down
there, a lot taller and rangerthan our Rocky Mountain elk. But it

(26:33):
was endemic to New Mexico. That'swhere it live. That was his core
habitat. There are no more.They're hanging on somebody's wall. You can
see them, but they're no longeraround. That species is gone. We
destroyed it so we could feed morecows, and we had a lot of
good people with Lad Gordon, hewas a director and he took over and

(26:56):
he said, well, you knowit's so ballanced here. You know,
we have all these cattle. Wedon't have any elk. Elk's in native
species. We should have elk,And they said, the ranchers said,
no, we shouldn't as long asthey compete. It's cattle, you know,
that we were looking at. Sohe went up to Yellowstone was giving

(27:18):
out Rocky Mountain elk, and hegot elk and brought him down here,
and then he went to the cattlegrowers. He's from ranching family, Larry
Gordon and Lad Gordon grew up ona ranch in southeast New Mexico, and
he they talked about it, andthey said, well, there's there's got
to be some way we can getthese native species back in here and bring

(27:40):
some balance. And he set limitswith grazing, working with the Forest Service,
which wasn't a pleasant thing, youknow. And because cattle growers had
the power. They had the powerthen and they were making a lot of
money. They were the industry inNew Mexico at that time, and so
they had the power and they giveour legislature and you can give donations or

(28:04):
fundraisers, and they still to thisday, they still give more money probably
than just oil and gas I thinkis competing with them so but they they
do that, they give to thedifferent things, and they want their voices
here that they are in industry.That's a foundation in New Mexico and we

(28:25):
should we should maintain them. Butlad being a rancher, knew what they
needed. So he spoke with themat this meeting and told him, well,
what if we give you permits andyou can make money on permits.
You can sell to these Easterners ordifferent people and they can make you can
make big money on these things.And they weren't in favor of it.
They were fighting him on it,but they finally decided they would give it

(28:49):
a try. So we started out. That's how we started giving landowner permits.
That's how it started with a threatthat if you don't, we're going
to kill the elk again. We'regoing to kill all these animals. And
that continues to be their threat.You know, the thing and their public
lands we're talking about not only theyhave thirty four percent of all the land

(29:14):
in New Mexico as privately owned ranchesor maybe even more. I'm not sure
about that number, but it's prettyclose close to forty, yeah, close,
so that they're a big thing.And then and then are adjacent to
public lands and they use those asthey can, which is good, but
there has to be a balance.And we're losing our wildlife and it's most

(29:36):
notable probably with birds. We're losinggrasslands and so the birds you see every
day, you know, metal larks. If you're walking out and the fields
out here, you're hear metal larks. And I see birds coming through town,
and I provide habitat form and they'reless and less of certain species and
more of others. Things are changing, you know, but we need we

(30:00):
need to provide them a balance.We need to to make sure that our
roads and our properties that we developprovide them with access to so they can
keep living. Because they provide uswith something. We're part of nature.
We're not above it or below itor anything else. We don't rule it,
you know. And when we wipeout something, it'll affect us.

(30:22):
People don't always believe that, butit will. It will affect us.
It'll affect the land we're on,just like they over graze and they had
erosion and whole areas down there.Some of those royals originally were from the
from the cattle and then up northyou can see on the side of the
hills, these striations as little things. That's sheep. When the sheep was

(30:47):
it was open grazing for sheep upthere. Well, the sheep grazed sideways
across the hills and they made theselittle pathways and they're still there. You
can still pick those out if youknow what you're looking for. So you
know, we're we're affecting our landthat we live on, our water,
and we need we need to havea balance, you know, and there's

(31:10):
a place where we can have uh. I was grew up in a ranching
family. You can you can haveboth. I know you can have both,
you know. And I started lookinginto it and I thought, well
what I what goes on here?And well, the Natural Resources Defense Group
they they they look at the landto give out grants to landowners and for

(31:34):
public lands for restoration. Well,they have a wildlife council. I don't
know if you knew that a lotof people don't know, you know.
And they had game and fish onit and who else did they have ranchers?
They had ranchers. And I said, well what about the wildlife?
They need a voice too, andthe thing and they said, we would

(31:56):
love to have somebody from the WildlifeFederation or some grew didn't have to be
a well if some group that wouldbe part of it, they would speak
for wildlife. So I just volunteeredand I just started going to them and
I got to meet the people thatI would see in the legislature that were
carrying the the the ranchers and thelandowners' issues. There was Karen Cowen and

(32:21):
and I can't remember a couple otherpeople that they were on those all those
thinking they were putting their view about, you know, how how things were
going. And they wanted to doaway with the cougars, and they wanted
to do away with the bears.And I said, well, you know,
they all have a place, youknow, and they said not with
cattle, they don't. So butI found out that there were there were

(32:43):
a lot of projects that we coulddo that benefited both. So I would
grade these projects that came up isif does this have like if you want
to put in wells and drinkers,did they have did they have a wild
bird ramp? Do they have accessof a drinker a seep for the wildlife

(33:07):
and if they did, I gavemixtra points so that way it could be,
it could benefit both. And theranchers seemed fine with that, you
know, they really did as longas they got the project in and they
got the water for their their theirlivestock. They didn't care if we gave
some to the wildlife too. SoI know that they're they're that they have

(33:27):
it in their hearts. We needto be able to work with people in
groups. We just can't shut themdown or fight them off, you know,
but there has to be equity too. And the way it is now,
it's uh, it's craziness. Uh. I told you I gonda every
year, and so I haven't drawnan elk permit for well, this year,
I didn't put in because I'm havinghealth issues. But nine years it'll

(33:52):
be nine years since I drew anElk fermit. That's it's just and and
before it was like a given forme. I would just go put in
in my favorite place, you know, and put tours of them and go
out and I draw. Not anymore, you can't because they've divvied up the
permit so that the and I havefriends too that are guides and outfitters,

(34:14):
and but they're getting a portion andthe landlolders are getting a portion and then
the out of staters are getting aportion of what's left over. So you
know, I hardly have any anyodds on this, you know, So
most of my friends switch back tobow. They used to do a lot,
so we got a lot of bowhunters, but because the odds are

(34:34):
better, But it's still it's notfair. We need an equitable system that
provides for everybody in such a waythat and certainly if you're and I know,
being a rancher, I am Igoing to hear from my uncles and
my family, but but you know, you will get permits. If they're

(34:54):
affecting, you're grazing, you shouldget a permit to reduce the numbers.
But you shouldn't get a permit tenmiles away from your ranch. You shouldn't
get it on public land, youknow, unless you could prove those animals
are the ones come into your thing. And that's the thing. These big
ranches are getting permits for animals thataren't even on their land all the time.

(35:16):
They're getting a unit wide, sothey're competing with us unit wide.
So it for the average public hunter. You know that it's hard pill to
swallow and we're the only I thinkstate that does this. You know,
it's ridiculous, and we have forthat reason. We have a lot of
people coming in and buying up largeranches. And I know some fellows that

(35:42):
came in and they were working witha they're actually outfitting for a landowner that
just purchased a ranch in West NewMexico. And they were tickled to death
because they got enough money from theirfirst year of licenses to pay for their
land payments. And he says,look at this, it's paying for itself
already, you know. And Iwas going, oh, God, on

(36:05):
our backs, you know, onour wildlife specs. So there's so many
things going on that are hammering wildlife. You know, the climate's changing,
we have less water, we haveroads cutting their territories. They can't migrate.
We're seeing whole areas or ecosystems likegrasslands dying off and the wildlife have

(36:27):
to move. They can't stay there, there's nothing for them to eat.
They have to move. So weneed to look at wildlife crossings. We
need to think about how we're gonnalive with wildlife, not use them until
the extinction like we did before.We need to work together, and we
need to work with ranchers. Weneed to work with guides and outfitters.

(36:50):
And we've tried. I've been inJesse and I go to the legislature and
we work different bills, and we'vesat down with them and worked with them
on hammering things out, you know. And where we can we work together,
and where we can't, we justair our differences to the legislators and
let them decide. But hopefully wemake a good, strong enough argument and

(37:12):
an argument for wildlife too. Youknow, I want my grandkids, my
nephews and their kids. I wantthem to be able to hunt and fish.
We need to work together on this. That means we work with the
wildlife people that like animal protection orsee our clubs some of these people,

(37:35):
and we need to work together.And where we don't get along, will
work separately. But we need towork together with people. We need to
work with ranchers, you know,we need to They own land and they
have a right in this, youknow. And I'm from ranching family and
I know, but you don't haveto kill all the wildlife to do this,

(37:55):
you know, you can. Ithink we can all work together and
get this done and that means establishingrelationships. Don't just get on the web
and just hammer the hell out ofthe ranchers and the game commission and stuff
like that. Show up at themeetings, you know, talk about it
less, work together and get thisdone. You know, when you talk

(38:19):
about working cant and working together,I would argue with just about anybody that
there are fewer people alive, ifanybody who's done more for wildlife, more
for conservation, more for relationship buildingin the state of New Mexico than you
have. I mean, you trulyhave provided and an immense perspective to legislators,

(38:40):
to game commissioners, to everyday citizensto come across the state. And
you've done it in a leadership rolewith the New Mexico Wildlife Federation. I
believe you served as the board presidentfor a period of time or you were
on the board of directors. Iwas right. I was the president of
New Mexico Whilelife and then I wasthe regional director, and then I was
the chairman of the board of theNational Wildlife And I've I've lobbied or I've

(39:02):
advocated. There's a difference. I'veadvocated on a national level, on a
state level regional level for wildlife becausethey need us to stand up. We
need and we need to work withthese other groups. You know, I
totally valued I'm gonna I better notsay her name, the lady from Southern

(39:24):
Sierra Club, you know, butshe hammered me a couple of times on
the web and everywhere else, youknow, because of my stand on trapping,
and and I used to trap asa young kid. That's one of
the things we did. I mademoney selling pelts till I decided it wasn't
something I wasn't gonna do anymore.I wasn't going to club that fox like

(39:45):
that. I just just like AldoLeopold when he saw the light and the
wolf's eye. You know, it'shard to walk up and hit an animal
in the head like that and justto skin it and stuff like that,
and for your little amount of moneythat you you get. And I just
decided I wouldn't do that. AndI don't you know, I wouldn't have
my kids. I'll tell my kidswhy I wouldn't do that. And uh,

(40:08):
but there's still religious beliefs and tribeshave have rights too, and they
they set their own things. AndI learned to work with the tribes too.
UH. We brought Gloria tom fromthe she's the director of wildlife for
Navo Nation, the largest reservation inthe United States, and UH went out

(40:30):
and talked with her about how theymanaged their wildlife and it's it's strange that
the New Mexico UH Game Department doesnot work enough with with the thing this.
This director believed what he's been doingpretty well with him. The one
before that, you know, hemade some statements that I requested that he

(40:52):
apologized to the tribes and to theHispanics in the state. UH, just
derogatory comments about us. And soI said, well, again, show
me the numbers. You say thatthe Hispanics are poaching all the deer and
elk and that's why we have numbersgoing down, and that the you know,

(41:14):
these other people, the Indian arehammering the this and that for their
hides. And I said, showme the numbers, show me the name.
So I got with Captain Bobby backthen and had him list all the
things, and he said it doesn'tlist race. I said, well,
let's just do a general thing hereand if they have an Hispanic name or
trail, and we went through andwe found out that the most poaching was

(41:38):
done by by whites, white malesand white male professionals, which I thought
was kind of strange. And thenand then with the fish, almost all
the fishing violations were Hispanics, andI thought, god, you know,
so I said, why why isthis happening? You know, and we

(42:00):
still see it. We put avalue on horns antlers, so to be
a big guy, you got tohave the biggest antlers in your house,
you know. And I was alwaysa meat hunter, so that wasn't an
issue with me. But I stillhave them. You'll probably see somewhere around
the yard here, or some deerhanging in the trees here and stuff.

(42:21):
But you know, it's it's away we look at wildlife and how we
value things. The Hispanics, they'remostly all the violations were non English speaking
Hispanics. And we found out thatin the states around the United States,
if you had say thirty five Hispanicpopulation, you needed to have your game

(42:45):
commission regulations. But because they valuehunting and fishing, so you need to
have it in a language they canunderstand. So we the National Wildlife Federation
went to various areas Wisconsin, Minnesota, Kansas because they have huge populations of
Hispanics working there and they hunt andfish. So we got the regulations changed

(43:10):
so they could could understand the regulations. We posted it in the field in
Spanish, and guess what, thenumber of violations went down. You know,
it's just And then we go toNew Mexico, which by the way,
is a bilingual state by state law, and we don't have it.

(43:32):
So as a commissioner, I triedto get it done and I was out
voted, and I worked on itfor years and we took another run out
of what two years ago, Iguess, and same thing they and this
time we volunteered Adrian Deguio and Reitrejoand myself we volunteered to translate the rigs

(43:57):
for them so they wouldn't be acost of uh and Adrian was actually a
translator before. And they still wouldn'tdo it. They said, this is
America. I said, well,this is New Mexico and the law says
you will do this, and hesays, well, I don't think we'll
do this. This is our director. And then he he had a change

(44:20):
of mind after meeting with some ofthe legislators and the governor because we had
spoken with them too about it andthey had a different view about why we
should have this done. So nowwe have that done. So now if
we if we have high numbers inthat it's because they violated and it's available
to them and they can they youknow, they should do it. We

(44:42):
still don't have the science posts theywere, but the regulations are available in
Spanish. You know, we needto do things like this. Yeah,
well you don't get that. Thatconservation win was huge and I commend to
you and Adrian on Gulo, whoat the time was a deputy director of
the New Mexico Wildlife Federation, andRay Trejo who's our Southern activities coordinator for
the New Mexican Wildlife Federation. Youknow, you guys did an amazing job.

(45:06):
And I think Max True Hero fromEcho was also involved, and can't
I know you've done tremendous work withwith Echo and and I don't know if
Max is involved in the translation,but I know you advocated it for it
and he supported the Echo and Echois Hispanics enjoined camping, hunting and the
outdoors. It's correct and it's anamazing uh program or product of the National

(45:30):
Wildlife Federation. Essentially, they've kindof spearheaded it. Actually we did it
here. We we uh New Mexicans. We met with a woman that was
working in Colorado and she was losingher funding, and we thought, this
is something we need. It's it'staking uh. I was going uh advocating

(45:52):
in the US Congress, and Iwould always hear people say and and good
people, famous people say, well, you know, the minorities don't don't
hold this thing, don't hold thesame values we do for conservation. And
listen. I grew up on asecular rent farm, and I knew that

(46:14):
we had very much conservation ethic.So we got money and we did a
survey of Hispanics in the Southwest,and overwhelmingly they were conservation minded, overwhelmingly.
So we presented that to the House, Hispanic Caucus, and we presented

(46:35):
to the House to show that Hispanicshave a conservation ethic. So I thought,
wow, we really need to enlightenpeople about this. You know,
I had to. I was workingon another issue at that time. We
were setting the rules for the GreatOutdoors Senate Committee that I was on,
and I said, well, weneed to you know, we need to

(46:58):
get some as people of color inhere. And I had national people from
big organizations stand up and said theydon't care about wildlife and they don't care,
and I said, way, whoahold it? You know, and
I said, we just did thissurvey and we have this, so there
was a need for that. SoI started along with Liz Archiletta, and

(47:20):
I'm going to forget the other.There are four or five of us that
we all got together and we startedthis organization and it's Hispanics enjoying, camping,
hunting, and the outdoors. Andit works with elected officials that are
Hispanic to pass their views. Sowe work. We go with working in
Big ben right now, the GrandCanyon, New Mexico, all across the

(47:45):
states and the West, looking athow we can help amplify the Hispanic voice
so people will know that we're concernedabout these conservation issues. And it's worked
very well, especially since Camilla Assignment. Our director, she very much thinks

(48:07):
that it should be elected officials working, you know, in groups, because
they're at a at a local level, whether it be city, county,
usually it's county officials and state officials. They're getting things done. So working
with them we're getting things done,and we're helping people work on conservation issues

(48:27):
that have an Hispanic background, andI'm so proud of that, you know.
It's so phenomenal. You know.I've had the honor obviously of working
with you and learning from you andbeing mentored by you, but also with
Max Truhiel from Echo and from rockU Labadi. They were two of her
first legislators. They were in thelegislature up in Las Vegas up there,

(48:49):
you know. So yeah, Soit's just it's been fascinating, and your
work in this space has been amazing. You know. I'd like to ask
you, Kent, what one ofyour greatest conservation and winds has been throughout
your deep and rich conservation history.And I also this may or may not
be your greatest memory when it comesto conservation, but I'd like to hear
your story about the whole White's Peakissue, because I know that that's an

(49:15):
issue you were intricately involved in andI wasn't at first. I'm that's my
country up there from my grandparents,and I never hunted much in that area,
but of one of the things Idiversified in New Mexico wildlife Federation because
when I first became a member,I was the only Hispanic. They're all

(49:36):
white male. And I said,hey, if you want, if you
want me on this, you're goingto have to have some women and some
other people because I don't work ina vacuum like that. And they said,
what do you mean. I said, can't be all white men and
pass laws for a variety of people, including women and kids and stuff.
So they regrettingly brought a woman on. She didn't last very long. Can

(49:58):
you imagine working with a bunch ofold white guys, you know, so
we uh we we we change that. We were able to bring people on
and have and you can't just bringone woman on. You need to bring
a couple of women on on board, and then they bring other people on.
Women And I'm just gonna say this, I think women are are salvation.

(50:22):
Uh. They bring family. Andyou can get a guy like like
me the hunts alone and stuff likethat, or you can get guys to
hang around and but you get them. When you bring a woman. She
brings family, they bring community.Sometimes they'll get together like up in Rio
gand Wildlife area up there. Wildernessthat was a big win and Uh,

(50:46):
my sister who runs Rivers and Birdsand she's a wildlife bileg just for US
Fish and Wildlife Service. She startednow Rivers and Birds group, but teaching
children. Matter of fact, rightnow she's up in the mountains with thirty
two kids camping out and showing themwildlife and wild spaces and how to care

(51:09):
for themselves and the wildlife. Butwe need to bring more women. We
need to bring families, we needto bring ranchers, need we need to
bring everybody, and we have tobe able to work together. I get
really disappointed when I see my friendsor groups that I work with start hammering

(51:30):
these other groups, and it's notthe way we get we get things done.
We have to find common ground.You know, we'll we'll work on
getting what we need and what thewildlife need. But we all need to
work together so everybody gets what theyneed. I've worked on I was appointed

(51:51):
by a Republican governor to work onclean air in Class one wilderness areas for
the Western governors associated. That wasone of my first big legislate winds and
that took years, a couple ofyears, and everybody was saying it was
the trains, the buses or thisand that and a variety of things.
But when we got down the scienceand we analyzed the pollutants and where they

(52:14):
were coming from and breaking it downbecause they have signatures. They were coming
from southern California and high winds.They were coming at high altitude and settling
in the real Grand Canyon and causinga visibility issue. So we tightened the
regulations for vehicles in California to cleanup the wilderness areas. We don't live

(52:38):
in a vacuum. You know,you might be down there and say,
oh, I don't have anything todo with the Grand Canyon. You will
certainly do. Get on the samething. Here. We're in the city
and we were a city for nonattainment for ozone and carbon monoxide, and
we tried to pass my friend JudithSpnosa actually passed a regulation requiring vehicle emission

(53:02):
testing and it was a centralized program. Well, the mechanics got up in
arms, and the dealerships and everybodyelse, and they overthrew it. Well,
guess what we back in non attainmentagain with EPA, which costs the
communities, the governments in this valley, cost them millions of dollars in federal

(53:22):
funding. And so I was setout by the mayors to work and getting
people together on that. And Iworked with the local mechanics associations and the
dealerships, Ray BERRUTHI and Charlie Youngand all those people, and we got
a regulation that would work for everybody, and it was self sustaining. And

(53:47):
the second year it ran, wecame into attainment for both. And if
you look down in the valley andyou just have that aversion, you couldn't
see the valley. We don't havethat anymore. It's because of the the
vehicle pollution issue. That and theregulations got stronger. And it's another thing
that I've worked on, was workingwith a mama trying to set standards for

(54:08):
cars. You know that we wouldn'thave to get tested all the time.
But it's looking at a problem andseeing how you're going to address it and
going for it and work. AndI'm going to tell you that I've lost
so many fights, years and yearsand years. Eighteen seventy two mining law.

(54:28):
I went about six seven years tothe legislature the US Congress working on
that. Still there, it's stillthe same thing. We're still using eighteen
seventy two mining law, you know, and all the extraction is going to
forward is going to China mostly,but it's going to other nations. It's
not benefiting us, it's benefiting them. But yet the mining industry keeps that

(54:53):
law in place, you know,and we need to find ways to get
through those things. Looking at makinga recommendation to the new presidents was an
interesting committee because we worked with therecreation industry and the shooting sports industry and

(55:14):
then the wildlife people. And youtalk about diverse people and not getting along,
but they did, and they cameup with some good recommendations that benefited
everybody. That's what we need todo. We need to work together to
save wildlife, to save our children, to save our future. And I
think they are all those fights.I don't know how many I've been in.

(55:37):
It was a real disappointment to methat Joe Manchin, I want to
say his name, because he reallyupset me. We had our senators were
working. Actually, Martin Heinrich wasworking with a big contingency and Colin Tomorrow,
the president of the National Wildlife Federation, the CEO. They worked together

(56:00):
and they hammered out a plan forRahwah restoring America's wildlife, which would give
game and fish departments another source ofincome besides licenses, so we could address
the grassland birds and the field miceand things like. There would be money
for the department that would do that. And it was all there. We

(56:21):
had, all the congressmen were allin favor of it, and then the
day of the vote, he walkedin and he just Joe match and voted
against it. You know, he'sa Tennessee senator. Back I was like
our West Virgina. I'm not surenow, but anyway, I was so
upset. You know, that wouldbe a major game changer across this country

(56:45):
for wildlife and the game for theGame Department. So we don't call them
game. By the way, inNew Mexico's one of the few players that
still calls them game. They callthem wildlife agencies. And that's where we
need to get it needs to getto that and the reason we call ours
game to park next, that's howthe department makes its money. We need

(57:06):
to find a way so they don'tdo that, you know, and they
think about all the wildlife, it'sit's these fights that we have to go
on time and time again, andyou can't give up. That's another thing
I learned in all my years andconservation work. Never never, never give
up, never give up. It'staken years for some things. The advice

(57:34):
Colorderta. I was appointed the chairmanof the board of the trust and trying
to make it self sustaining, andour senator at that time was Di Minici.
That they put that through and wepassed a bill of land was conservation
fund, which was a lot ofwork across the country by conservation is to

(57:54):
get that. But that gave usthe money to make it a public lands,
open it up for everybody. Beforeit was a draw and you had
to have money to get to geta license to hunt or to access it
to fish, to hike, youhad to pay money. I found out
in like Los Almos or him AsSprings or on the pueblos, some of

(58:17):
the kids had never been on thatland and it's a treasure. They had
never been able to access that.I talked to people and oh, that's
a private right. I said,no, it's not, you know,
but to get that so we couldget that done and I worked hard on
that with a lot of people.Dennis Carhill hired him as the manager and

(58:43):
he was able to get the operatingcost covered, but we could never get
it totally sustainable because we had topay our own insurance and everything. So
I put in for it with theSenate, with Senator Binghaman and Vanuela Silva.
I put put in with them foryears to make it a preserve,

(59:06):
not a thing so you could stillhunt, but it was a wildlife preserve.
And just couldn't get it through becausethere was that one senator. He
was in Tennessee again and he didn'twant it. He didn't he want didn't
want it to be done, andso it didn't. And then he was
going to retire and he wanted hislegacy a state federal park in his country,

(59:31):
you know. And God bless thestaff of the Natural Resources Council for
the Senate. They said, youhave denied New Mexico this this preserve for
all these years, and before youget yours, you have to vote to
approve theirs. And they did andthey called me up and I was like,

(59:52):
oh my god, and it wastime for me to stop that and
turn it over, you know.And that was one of those wins that
took a lifetime took years, inyears, man, I can't thank you
enough for your work on that Kent. I had the honor of accompanying two

(01:00:13):
different Elk Hunters, as you know, the Vias called there a last year.
I just learned that a friend ofmine drew a tag in there for
this year, and so awesome.The experiences that I've had in there are
priceless. I mean absolutely priceless.And as a man of very modest means,
had the management been the way itwas previously, I would have never

(01:00:35):
in my life had those opportunities.I would have never in my life had
the ability to create those experiences thatthose memories exactly cherished. Friends, And
because of you, because of yourwork, and because of your philosophy of
never give up, well you don'tgive up, I was able to do
that. You know, if I'dhave given up, you know, if
we've just stopped and it wasn't justme. There's a lot of people working

(01:00:57):
on that, But if we hadgiven up, it wouldn't get there.
You know. It just took along time. Seven years or so,
that's a long time, you know. And when you look at our life,
our lifetimes, and I can sayI've worked on the Grand Canyon.
I've worked on places across the countrywith the National Wildlife Federation, trying to
save places, and uh, ittakes a lot of work by a lot

(01:01:21):
of people. And uh but never, never, never give up. We're
going to get somewhere with the licensessomeday, you know. And right now
there's a coalition working on redoing thedepartment and the regulations, and uh,
I think that we can come upwith something that that that will work for
everybody. And I'm I'm real excited. I don't know if I'll see it,

(01:01:45):
but i'll uh, I'll I'll bethere looking down on you guys,
you know, or looking up.I thank you for all your work with
the with the New Mexico Wildlife Federationand the National Jesse won the Affiliate Director
of the Year for the National WildlifeFederation for his work across the country with

(01:02:07):
other with other groups. And it'sworking together that we get things done.
And I appreciate you all the people. And I love the fact that we
have nature Ninos and Sir Candeladia andthat it's boomed and now seeing children because
children are future, and seeing thatgoing. God, it's a wonderful thing.

(01:02:29):
It's it's wonderful. You do greatwork, and I appreciate you guys,
well, thank you Ken. Iwouldn't be in a position to do
it, and I wouldn't have theknowledge or expertise or confidence to be able
to do it if not for yourmentorship and leadership and your kind heartedness and
willing to call me when I makemistakes and do the wrong thing and call
and say, hey, uh,maybe let's rethink how you're how you work

(01:02:52):
with communities and stuff like that,just because sometimes it's hard. It really
is. And I've been beat upa few times and I've learned a few
lessons that way, for sure.You know. It's it's hard working with
people. And I would cringe sometimeswhen my colleagues at the Game Commission means
would like make fun of some ofthe cattlegorers and I, I'm a cattle

(01:03:12):
grower. What are you talking about? You know, And they just they
don't understand that we all have towork together to get things done. And
sure they're an opposing view and alot of things, and they want the
most they can get, which isnot bad, you know, but we
need to get ours set and weneeded to get it for wildlife and our
children in the future. So well, you've certainly led by example, can't.

(01:03:36):
I mean, all of these,these these philosophies that you're talking about
here, never give up and worktogether, and all of these, these
themes that have been consistent throughout thisconversation are themes that that you've lived and
breathe and honestly led by example.I mean, it's it's a rare thing
in this world. I hate tosay that that that people actually lead by

(01:03:58):
example all the time, the waythat you have a lot of times people
preach the way things should be done, but when you actually see them in
action. Yes, it's And I'veruned into a lot of friends that were
they're no longer friends that were,uh, that I worked with for years
and and they just they espoused theview that I couldn't stand, you know,
so I uh, I had tobreak it up with them, you

(01:04:18):
know, And don't don't feel badabout that. If you can't reach a
compromise or something with somebody, youknow, walk away. You know,
work work the other side. Youknow, you can get things done,
but always remember you do you don'tdo it alone. There's a lot of
people out there and there's a lotof opposing views and different views, and

(01:04:38):
we try to hammer out something thatworks for everybody and certainly for a wildlife
because it it uh it's it's whatwe all exist on, you know,
and uh I try to uh isthat my life is getting short, you
know, I'm getting older, andand uh I just I just want to
see that things are going okay,you know, for the future. And

(01:05:01):
I know there are when I seepeople like you or the all the staff
you know doing and the National Wildlifethat is I can't say enough for the
wonderful people across this country that workin conservation. You know, it's a
big deal. So thank you guys. Things are going a lot better because
of the work you've done. Ican tell you that can't the impact you've

(01:05:23):
had, the legacy you're you're goingto leave, the inspiration you've provided to
conservationists around the country, definitely includingme. We can't thank you enough.
And so kin I know you're you'rea busy man. You've got a governments
and things, So anything else you'dlike to leave the listeners with you get
just I think remember wildlife when you'reout there, and and please be respectful

(01:05:44):
of landowners. And but let's let'sget it done. Let's let's make a
change here and that, and thatmeans every one of you gets involved.
And you can't be like me atthe first complaining and not doing anything.
You have to get it done.You have to attend to me. You
have to take time off and talkto your legislator. Know who your legislator

(01:06:04):
is and tell them why you electedthem and what what you want to see
done, you know, And that'show we get things done in government.
Thank you so much, can thankyou very much. Thanks for listening to
the Ahiva podcast produced by Drift withOutdoors
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