Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:25):
Every eleven seconds, an older adult in the US becomes
the target of a scam. Last year alone, seniors lost
over four point eight billion dollars to fraud. That's thirteen
million dollars every single day, and experts estimate that that's
(00:49):
just the tip of the iceberg because most victims are
too ashamed or too afraid to report it. The most
heartbreaking part, these aren't just anonymous crimes. These scams come
wrapped in romance. They're disguised as family members and delivered
by voices that sound eerily familiar, sometimes even ai generated
(01:14):
to sound like a grandchild. That is the dark new
frontier of fraud, and it's targeting people we love the most. Today,
we're pulling back the curtain. My guest is Jim Hughes,
founder of Senior Risk Solutions and nationally reexpected fraud prevention expert,
(01:37):
based in Nashville and speaks nationally to his audiences across
the country. He's made it his mission to protect seniors
and the families who care for them by exposing the
most dangerous scams and teaching how to stop them before
the damage is done. Whether you're a senior yourself or
someone who loves one. The conversation could save you money,
(02:02):
it could save you stress, it could save you your peace
of mind. This is an important conversation that everyone needs
to hear. Welcome Jim to Always Ageless.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
Thank you very much for the introduction. Valerie, it's great
to be here with you.
Speaker 1 (02:20):
Let's start with the scope of this issue. How bad
is the problem?
Speaker 3 (02:26):
Really?
Speaker 1 (02:28):
What are the most statistics, most staggering statistics that stand
out to you.
Speaker 2 (02:34):
Well, we can get all of the statistics we want
from the Federal Trade Commission because that's the receptacle of
reported crimes, and of course not all of them are reported,
as you alluded to in your opening salvo there. But
I guess the thing that I want to bring to
this conversation, to this radio show, to time with you, Valerie,
(02:59):
is that I have the last three and a half
years that I've been in Nashville, I've been speaking at
senior living facilities, geriatric associations, senior associations, senior services networks, etc.
And so I get first hand what's happening in literally
(03:21):
at the ground level. And because of being out speaking
to so many people, people know with the business that
I'm in, So I'm constantly getting phone calls or emails
saying please help me, Can you help me when an
event like this occurs, so I get first hand current
(03:42):
information that I can report back to my audiences to
help prevent the next occurrence from occurring. It is disastrous,
and we'll go into that. I'm sure.
Speaker 3 (03:54):
Well tell us. How did you even get started in
this field?
Speaker 2 (03:57):
Great question, Thank you, Valerie. Good question. This is my
sixth company that I've had, and I started it twenty
years ago because I was sitting in my office when
a pop up came up on my screen and said,
we've got your files locked. We want three hundred dollars
(04:21):
in bitcoins to unlock your files. It was a ransomware attack.
Speaker 3 (04:26):
Which you happen to have bitcoin just sitting in your pocket. Oh,
of course, of course all but.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
Fortunately, fortunately I was aware of what was happening. I
didn't really specialize in those kind of cybersecurity attacks until
that happened, and the boy that drove my mission even harder.
So I started with identity theft for the general business
(04:52):
public for companies and their employees, and got pulled into
cybersecurity by the employers saying, what's this ransomware? Malware thing,
can you help me here? And so that drove me
to answer your question, Valerie, that really drove me to
try to be the strongest specialist I possibly can be
(05:13):
on a daily basis, looking into every opening, if you will,
of how the scammers are getting into our pockets, if
you will. So that was the cause of my mission
to form the company, Senior Risk Solutions, and that's why
(05:35):
I wrote my book, which we'll discuss as we go
through here, to try to help as many seniors and
senior facilities to learn what's coming. Because if they don't
know what's coming, they don't see the bus that hits them,
so to speak. And that's a travesty, as we'll discuss
as we go through.
Speaker 3 (05:53):
We're going to talk about that too.
Speaker 1 (05:55):
So I know that you started out as Business Risk
Solutions and then you've now switched to Senior Solutions.
Speaker 3 (06:01):
So what was it that caused you to do that?
Speaker 1 (06:04):
Was? What was that tipping point for you? It must
have been an event maybe that happened.
Speaker 2 (06:10):
Well, there are several things that occur. Now your viewers
can obviously tell I'm a senior, so I have somewhat
of a liking to that category. If you will. But
the deeper I got into investigating what is happening to
seniors the worst at gout and the problem, as you
(06:31):
well know, is that seniors don't have a chance to recover.
They don't have the time to recover a huge loss.
So as a result of that, I have been focusing
my attention and time to the senior person who needs
to be educated on what is happening. Because, as you know, Valerie,
(06:57):
we were gosh, we were raised when we left the
front order the house unlocked, we had left the keys
in the ignition in the driveway, et cetera. That doesn't
apply any longer. And so what I'm trying to do
is educate as many seniors as I possibly can to
push off a fraud that would occur to them out
(07:20):
of ignorance. And it happens. Every single facility I go
into and speak, the audience comes back with what's happening
to them. I use a lot of those stories in
my book as well their real life that have occurred
in the last twelve months. So it's it's a relevant subject,
it's a relevant scourage on our society, and the fraudsters
(07:45):
know that the seniors.
Speaker 1 (07:47):
Have the money and so as we go into this today,
we're going to hear numbers that are just they're staggering
and almost unbelievable.
Speaker 3 (07:58):
What were some people?
Speaker 1 (08:00):
Our viewers and our listeners are going to say, Yeah,
that happened to me. Yeah, I got one of those calls.
Yes I saw that. Yes, someone tried to scam me.
But let's get right into it because these numbers are
so staggering, and we want everyone to be aware. In
a way, we kind of want to shake everybody a
little bit and say, listen to this because this very
likely could happen to you if it hasn't already. And
(08:22):
we are here today an always ageless with you, Jim
hused to try to stop all of this and protect everyone.
You have called these emotional crimes in the past. Can
you explain why you use that term?
Speaker 2 (08:37):
Well, emotions. Let me use it in two ways, emotions
from the victim and emotions from the fraudster. Fraudster uses
emotions to get under your skin, sure, and that is
to lower your defenses. The emotions for the victim is
(08:59):
the feeling of a real strong feeling of regret, a
strong feeling of embarrassment, a strong emotional feeling of ignorance.
I get a lot of cases of all across the
(09:22):
spectrum of the aged person, from sixties into to nineties
year old. I get a mixed message from them, but
all of them look back at what just happened to
them and say, why in the world did I give
(09:42):
that information over the phone? Why in the world did
I answer the front door and give all of my
personal identifiable information, including my social Security number, to two
strangers at the door. Why in the world did I
give my grandson ninety five dollars from a phone call
(10:03):
when I found out it wasn't my grandson.
Speaker 1 (10:08):
So my question is, so, why are older adults targeted
more than any other groups? Is it really about the money,
because do they really have more money than anybody else?
Speaker 3 (10:19):
Are they just an easy target? What's the deal here?
Speaker 2 (10:23):
Well, it's that's a really good question too, Velarie. The
seniors are targets because they weren't raised in the digital age.
They didn't have a cell phone at age three, they
didn't have an iPad at age six, they weren't raised
with a laptop next to them, just like their toothbrush,
(10:43):
so to speak. And as a result of that, this
is all catch up for them. They're trying to catch
up to the digital age, which is fastly developing. They
can't keep up with it. Plus the fact that in
our generation, Valve, we were raised to trust people. We
(11:04):
were raised that people wouldn't take advantage of us, they
would help us if we need help. And the fraundsters
are usually operating outside of the country, outside the US,
and they don't care. They have no soul whatsoever, and
as a result, they're just looking for the easiest target
(11:25):
to hit. We're going to get the most money, and
a lot of the seniors have money as a result
of that. They're targets because they're easy to socially engineer.
Speaker 1 (11:37):
Well, or they have enough money, or they can get
enough money to save their grandson right, or their child correct,
or their church pastor who sends them a text message
they think that says I need gift cards from Target,
please go get them for me. Happens to one of
(11:57):
my family mambers, So of course, sure they go buy
the gift cards.
Speaker 3 (12:03):
And I think you're right about the way that we
were raised.
Speaker 1 (12:07):
You know, the worst crime then was if we stole
nickel out of our mom's purse, right and went and
bought a coke or bubblegum or something.
Speaker 3 (12:18):
Right, that's the biggest crime, I think. Yeah, you know
that we worried about the most. I don't know.
Speaker 1 (12:24):
Yeah, there's so many things that have changed. So what's
the difference do you think between just a simple scam
and a really more coordinated fraud ring.
Speaker 2 (12:39):
Well, the simple scams are for the beginners. That's where
they cut their teeth, if you will. And a simple scam,
and believe it or not, can be I'll use an example.
I just spoke it in Franklin, Tennessee, at a senior
living facility and a guy about eighty five years old
walks up to me as I'm setting up to do
it and theft awareness and he says, he says, can
(13:02):
I tell you my story? And I said certainly, And
he said I was just scammed out of ninety five
hundred dollars. I thought it was my grandson. Well, in
today's day and age, with artificial intelligence and the scraping
of the internet, if your grandson is on the Internet,
which probabilities are no matter what their age, they can
(13:25):
identify the picture, the voice, the mannerisms, everything that makes
that phone call sound just like your grandson. That's a
simple example. The hard part to swallow it in this story,
val is after the guy explained everything to me that
he lost ninety five hundred dollars, he said, that's the
(13:50):
second time I've fallen victim. So that's how good they are. Now,
that's a simple, if you will, And the one that
you just outlined, where go get ten one hundred dollars
gift cards and send to me. That's easy, easy pasy
(14:10):
for the scammers. Where it gets more complex, it's where
they use social engineering in a much more constant, comprehensive way,
and they get by intelligent, right cognizant people getting into
their minds. And I'll give you one example that had
(14:31):
out of Chicago, a guy pretty well to do, had
a seven hundred thousand dollars CD come up for renewal.
He went online shopping banks to look for interest rates,
which is fine. The problem is he then transferred from
his bank to a bank in Colorado for a quarter
(14:52):
of a percent more in interest, without calling him, without
talking to the bank, without checking their phone numbers, checking
their website, talking to a banker there, et cetera. So
when he transferred the funds that went to Colorado, then
to New York and then to Atlanta and then outside
(15:13):
the country gone seven hundred thousand dollars gone. That is
a little bit more complex. The social engineering gets very,
very complex. And I'll give you examples when you call
for that.
Speaker 1 (15:29):
Sure, Okay. So here's the question how and we know
the answer. Now, how has technology, especially AI artificial intelligence
changed the way that scammers are operating today?
Speaker 2 (15:43):
It gives them an upper hand even more so than
what they have. The scammers in the crime syndicates have
a lot of resources now, a lot of financial resources.
And in my book, I outlined this quick story. Picture
an office building in your neighborhood or your town, your
(16:06):
city across the US. That's three story brick office building.
And these people in the foreign countries Russia is included
as well as many other countries. A guy will walk
up to the front door of that office building with
his two kids in tow and go into a cafeteria,
(16:27):
have breakfast, then take the kids to a daycare center
in the first floor of the building. Then he gets
on an elevator and goes up to the third floor
into a booth a cubicle and sits there all day long,
eight hours, stealing our money, trying to penetrate our resources,
(16:48):
trying to get a hold of the vulnerable pieces. For
I would call it low hanging fruit, if you will.
And then he goes home. He's got benefits some of them.
These people start because of their skill level digitally val
they start at one hundred thousand dollars a year in income,
and then the crime syndicates uh, pit them against each
(17:12):
other with incentives to try to beat each other as
far as money stolen and giving them bonuses. They have
the same benefits that that a corporate person would have
here in the US working for a company in that
in that three story building. So it is very serious.
And as you indicated earlier in the broadcast, the money
(17:36):
that they that they've stolen is unbelievable, and it's a
lot of it is coming from the elder community. Uh.
And and that's what I want to uh and I'm
sure you feel the same. That's what we want to stop.
Speaker 1 (17:50):
Absolutely, yeah, absolutely, And and AI we know also has
played a big part in the voice technology where if
you literally copy the voice of any one of us,
including our children, our grandchildren.
Speaker 2 (18:07):
That's right, and they can they can copy even deeper
than that too, Valve. AI can copy your mannerisms, your
tone of voice, the cadence of your voice, your picture.
They can age the picture, they can create a youthful picture.
(18:28):
It's just amazing what AI can do. So you don't
know who they are. So I because of that, I
advise seniors in my workshops don't give any money or
any personal information to anyone over the phone, over your iPad,
(18:48):
or over your laptop. If someone calls and they say
they're your grandson, you should have a code between your
grandson and you so you know if that's him. Better yet,
just pick up the phone and call your child, your
son or daughter and say where is my grandson. He's
(19:10):
calling me right now from New York or wherever. There
are techniques, very simple techniques that seniors need to learn
in order to put up a defense and keep this
from happening to them. What drives me to be on
the show with you, Valerie, what drives me to do
(19:32):
my workshops is all the people that are losing everything
everything and they're at sixty and seventy and eighty years old.
It's a travesy.
Speaker 1 (19:43):
It's a crime. It is and it's just plain sad.
And I was talking to someone before the show and
they said, well, isn't there some way to like pay
people back or help them or whatever? And I know,
I mean, if they knew the government was going to
pay them back, the scammers would even scam more, right
(20:03):
if they knew that there was no penalty to it.
What are I'm curious and I'm sure our listeners and
viewers are also today.
Speaker 3 (20:11):
What are the top.
Speaker 1 (20:12):
Three scams targeting seniors right now? And everyone definitely needs
to know about.
Speaker 2 (20:19):
Well, can I start with the worst? Well, sure, the worst?
And I caution your your listeners to know that the
purpose of this is to help you recognize what's going on,
but we also want to give antidotes or solutions as well,
so that we do feel like there's some help that's
(20:42):
out there.
Speaker 1 (20:43):
And we want to be a resource for all of
our listeners and our guests and our followers.
Speaker 2 (20:47):
Absolutely, but number one is called pig butchering.
Speaker 1 (20:53):
Yes, tell us what that is, because I'm sure a
lot of people on our show today are listening to
us later on have never heard that term.
Speaker 2 (21:02):
Yeah, and this is one of the worst because of
the effects it leaves the victim with and pig butchering
is where, through social engineering, someone calls you. It could
be a romance issue to a lonely widower or widow.
(21:25):
It could be someone that is suggesting that they have
some investment opportunities that will give you far greater than
the marketplace and faster than the marketplace. And they work
step by step by step through a prolonged development of
(21:52):
a relationship with you, and that grabs a hold of
your curiosity, your emotions, it grabs hold of your ignorance,
and then they use at the very end, they may
even use forceful techniques to alarm you, such as they
(22:14):
are an official, they're from the irs, or they're from
a circuit of the court, a clerk of the court,
et cetera. And then once they have put together a
profile of you with all of the information that they
bring from those conversations, once they have enough to get
(22:35):
hold of everything that you have bank accounts included, they
butcher the pig. And that is they take everything without
any remorse whatsoever. That is number one. What is going on.
Number two is this grandson granddaughter event where a guy
(22:56):
gets called from his grandson and I just had this
happen with one of my Another example that I had
in my speaking events, and that is I got a
call from my grandson in New York. He said, I
was in a car accident last night and I hid
a woman. She was pregnant. She's in the hospital. I
(23:18):
need five thousand dollars in cash to get out of
jail on bond. And this guy said it sounded just
like him, he had the mannerisms, et cetera. And so
he went to the bank. This senior went to the bank,
got get this five thousand in cash, put it in
(23:41):
a FedEx envelope, and overnighted it to this address in
New York. Got up the next morning and said, I
feel uncomfortable with what I did. I don't know what
I did. I gone, I can't. He calls his son
in North Carolina and says, where's my grandson, and he said,
he's right here, right here in the house. But that
(24:07):
sounds like it's illogical that people would not do that,
that they would see the red flags in that entire episode.
But they're doing it all the time because those callers
are so skilled. So the antidote to that is when
that happens, hang the phone, up, don't listen anymore, don't
(24:28):
let them into your head. Hang the phone up, and
call your grandson or granddaughter and find out where they're
physically at, because it's probably a scam. That's something too.
Speaker 1 (24:42):
There was an episode on sixty Minutes one night where
they showed a girl who went from house to house
and just collected money. And there was someone who had
been scammed who was told, you know, someone's going to
come and collect this money from you right now and
take it to your grandson. And so the girl would
show up at the door, or that the victim would
(25:02):
have the money ready in an envelope and hand this
stranger cash in an envelope and off they went. Now,
in that case, because you only you see that so
many times a pretty soon, thank goodness, to bring doorbells,
they could eventually catch that person. But that person may
not even know where the money's going, right, They may
(25:24):
just be a hired messenger, that's right, and you don't
really know.
Speaker 2 (25:30):
So now let me give you the third one. Can
I give you the third yes?
Speaker 3 (25:33):
Please?
Speaker 2 (25:34):
Okay? The third one. Half of the phone calls that
are coming into my fraud call centers in Sacramento and
in Chicago. Half the phone calls are made up of this.
This example I'm going to give to you all right
when I get it in the audience in front of me.
I asked the audience how many people bank online? And
(25:55):
raising their hands and I say, how many people bank
online using their cell phone? Half the phone calls coming
in from fraud are where a senior has clicked on
a link that has come in a text message. Now
(26:18):
this is only text, not email, text message. And when
that happens, they click on what they think is a
familiar link, it downloads malware onto their phone. Sure that
malware follows them into the bank, you bet follows them
in the bank and will sweep all of their accounts
(26:39):
and take their credentials with them. And so I'd say
to those seniors, if you're banking online, that's fine to
do it on your laptop. Don't do it on your phone.
Delete the app on your phone so you're not encouraged
(27:00):
to do that. Do your banking online. And any message
that comes in under a text message, do not click
on it if it's asking for you to take action.
Because your bank, or the irs or the county clerk,
they're not going to send the text message to you
asking for you to click on a link.
Speaker 3 (27:20):
No, no, that's number three. No, none of them will.
Speaker 1 (27:25):
Let's talk about romance scams and who doesn't want to
be loved? Who doesn't want to be made to feel important?
Why are these so dangerous? Why are they so common?
And really what are they?
Speaker 2 (27:41):
Well? What are they is another form of social engineering
To answer that first or that last question that you have.
Why it's so popular is because the scammers have become very,
very skilled at social engineering using romance as their theme.
And I am right in the middle right now as
(28:04):
we speak on this date, July twenty ninth of twenty
twenty five, Valerie, I'm dealing with a guy that moved
here to Nashville from Chicago, and he's single, he has
a dog and has a business all right, right, And
(28:24):
since April of this year, twenty twenty five, he went
online and started dating this woman who then said, let's
go on to let's move off this platform on you now,
What's App? So went to What's App because it's more secure, sure,
(28:45):
I'm sorry, more private, sure. And since April she has
been quote unquote helping him invest in bitcoins and has
taken five hundred thousand dollars from him. Now he's sixty six,
(29:05):
he has no more money. She got him to take
money out of his four to one K as well
as an IRA which means he's prematurely, which means he's
going to have to pay taxes on it, and he
doesn't have any money to pay taxes. And he calls
me a shamed, embarrassed, just vomiting over the phone emotionally
(29:32):
if he will, saying, Jim, what can I do? How
can I what can I do about this? How can
I get my money back? This is everything I have?
And so I made connections for him to the FBI
and to the Nashville Bar Association and Tennessee Bar Association.
(29:54):
Interesting his phone call to the FBI here in Nashville,
the woman that gave him some things to do immediately
to protect himself from further being a further victim said,
this phone call, this kind of phone call of romance
scam is happening every day. We get phone calls every day,
(30:17):
so it is very much prevalent. And it's because they
work off emotions. As seniors think about it too, Valerie,
I mean, you know, if I lost my wife I've
been married to her for we're working on twenty seven years.
It would be a huge emotional loss, and yeah, it
(30:39):
would be lonely for a long time during the grieving period.
And that's what's happening with our seniors in the Unfortunately,
the thieves know that, and they can get online and
get lists of seniors. You can get anything online now obviously,
(31:00):
so they can do they can fill their spreadsheets with
victims and that's just systematically go through each and every
one until they tag one that wants to work with them,
and then they go forward from there. So I hope
I answered your question.
Speaker 1 (31:15):
On you And then the other romance scheme I'm sure
scheme I'm sure you've heard of also is where a
person is romanced online and said, why don't I come
and marry you. I'll come and move in with you
and send me all your money. We had a situation
(31:36):
where a client same thing, older gentlemen sold his house
netted about three hundred thousand dollars. Someone finds him, you
know online, you're a charming man.
Speaker 3 (31:48):
I love you.
Speaker 1 (31:49):
I'd love to live with you, but I need some
help getting there, So send me all your money and
I'll be there meet me in lax On this eight.
Somehow she got him to send her three hundred thousand dollars.
He had never met her, never never met her. It
(32:11):
was all phone calls, all phone.
Speaker 3 (32:15):
Calls, and.
Speaker 1 (32:20):
Of course he went to lax nobody came. He's now
renting a He could have taken that money and gone
and bought a house, paid cash for a house somewhere else,
and now he's renting a home a bedroom from a relative,
has absolutely nothing again, so embarrassed, so ashamed, feels so stupid.
Speaker 3 (32:43):
Yeah, and the money's gone.
Speaker 2 (32:46):
I just had a young fifty year old guy call
me here in Nashville and said, I just found out
my father's been sending money to a woman in California.
You thinks for me? He thinks, yeah, Well, and she
now wants him to sell his house and send the
(33:10):
proceeds to her and then then get in on an
airplane and why out there so we can get married.
And oh, by the way, she works on the TV
set of The Big Bang Theory and she works with
that company. Had all had his attention, got under his skin,
(33:35):
as I call it, And so I told the son,
I said, well, can you talk to him. He said,
he doesn't want to talk about it. He's been sending money,
he's built a relationship with her. And then his son
said to me, Jim, how can I stop him from
(33:55):
doing that? The only way we can do that here Nashville.
I'm not speaking for any state, and I am not
an attorney. I'm not practicing law. Speak to your attorney
about this is to go up in front of a
judge and get a conservative ship order from the judge
so that you can become a guardian take over control
(34:17):
of that. I think the remedy of what I put
in my book, The Digital War Valerie, is that the
children of seniors and their grandchildren need to be more
involved in what their seniors are doing. In particular, the
children need to be involved in what their finances are
to make sure they're not being bled slow but sure
(34:40):
by giving money to one church, you know, repetitiously, or
one person in a romance scam, or one church if
you will that it needs improvements, which in fact, I
just had one of those where I spoke out in
and I think I told you about this off off broadcast,
(35:05):
but it was out in eastern Tennessee, and the guy
came up to me after I did my workshop and
said that he and his wife are just scammed out
of one hundred and nine thousand dollars. He said, I
thought it was our church. So again, the thieves have
no soul whatsoever. And the antidote to this is understanding
(35:27):
that security is not convenient, and convenience is not secure,
and so we need to slow down and take some
different tactics that we've never learned as seniors, have not
learned on protecting ourselves because they're out there waiting for
(35:48):
us to just drop our guard a little bit. And
that's why I want to encourage the children.
Speaker 1 (35:54):
Yeah, and loneliness is such a factor in this. You know,
my mom lives by herself and she got a call.
This person said they wanted to come in. What could
they do? What could they help her with in her house?
And she said, well, this community I live in, they
have people who will go around and do things for
you in your house.
Speaker 2 (36:13):
Mom.
Speaker 3 (36:13):
I said, it's a scam. I guarantee you it's a scam.
Speaker 1 (36:16):
Well, how do you know that they've got my It
could have been my friend Pat.
Speaker 3 (36:22):
She said her name was Pat. I said it wasn't Pat.
Speaker 1 (36:25):
Trust me, it wasn't Pat And Mom said, well, I
just told her that I don't own this.
Speaker 3 (36:30):
I just rent. I said, oh, wonderful. Don't tell them anything, right.
Speaker 1 (36:34):
But the problem is to your point, Jim, what you
just said is that to be the conservator, these aren't
always people who are unable to care for themselves.
Speaker 3 (36:46):
There are people like you or I.
Speaker 1 (36:49):
We might see them on the street and think they're
perfectly capable of managing their own life. And here we
are their children coming in and saying we need to
protect you, and they don't like.
Speaker 3 (36:59):
That very well.
Speaker 2 (37:00):
Yeah, right.
Speaker 3 (37:01):
They don't want their kids to come in and say
we need to protect you.
Speaker 2 (37:04):
They want their independence.
Speaker 1 (37:06):
They want their independence. I'll decide what I want to do.
Of course afterwards. Then that's a problem. But it is
a very fine line to walk, very fine line to
walk to try to protect someone when we think we
know better than they think and they don't want someone
to tell them what to do. They want to be
in love, they want to be loved, right, They want
(37:27):
to do a good thing for their church, yes, they
want to help their grandson, yes, right.
Speaker 2 (37:34):
Yes, And to some extent for some people like I
mentioned with the guy that had the seven hundred thousand
dollars CD. It's greed. And if it looks like it's
too good to be true, it's too good to be true.
And so Maya and your job, Valerie, is to enlighten
(37:54):
as many seniors as we can to help them understand
what's lurking at their door through all of their digital
devices looking to get one step in the door one
piece of code on your cell phone, one piece of
code on your iPad, or to get your attention with
a social engineering conversation or a romance scam, which is
(38:17):
social engineering. So I think that we and our children
need to be involved in that quest towards educating our
senior population.
Speaker 3 (38:28):
Yes, absolutely, tell us.
Speaker 1 (38:31):
Is there one really terrible scam that stands out to
you that you haven't told us about so far that
was just shocking.
Speaker 3 (38:37):
And you just couldn't even.
Speaker 1 (38:39):
Believe it happened, and something was really disturbing to you.
Speaker 2 (38:44):
Yes, I was speaking at a senior living facility in Hendersonville, Tennessee,
and I you know where that's at, Valerie. Yes, And
I was talking about the seniors clicking on a link
(39:07):
in their text messages and this woman after I explained
what it is and what the problem is and what
can happen. She raised her hand. She's sitting in a wheelchair.
Valerie has no oxygen tube stuffed up her nose, so
(39:32):
she's on oxygen in a wheelchair, and she looks out
into the to the audience to her side. She was
at one side and said, I had all my bank
accounts swept. I lost everything. That is that is embedded
in my mind. I can't get that woman's face out
(39:55):
of my mind and the fact that she there was
no way she can recover from that. And I'm finding
through my research, Valerie, there's more and more people that
have lost everything who give up and literally literally give
(40:16):
up and die as a result of that. So that
was one that really burned a mark in my brain
as well.
Speaker 1 (40:25):
To answer your question, so with what you do, Jim,
is actually life saving in addition to saving money and
saving their peace of mind and saving their security, it's
actually life saving.
Speaker 2 (40:41):
Thank you for saying that. I'm going to use that
in my talks.
Speaker 3 (40:45):
But it is.
Speaker 2 (40:46):
It's true. It's true. You're right, You're absolutely good. Observation Valerie, observation.
Speaker 3 (40:52):
If I had lost.
Speaker 1 (40:55):
Seven hundred thousand and it was my life savings and
it was my only chance of ever having anything at all.
Speaker 3 (41:01):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (41:05):
I had one. I have one victim, Valerie tell me
this after this is the one that lost the five
hundred thousand. He said to me through a romance scam.
He said, the only thing I have on my side
is God. I'd prefer to be with God rather than here.
(41:26):
This world is very, very vicious, and I would rather
be with God. And I thought, oh boy, I can
see where he's going with this. And I tried to
turn the ship emotionally. But that's what people think about
when something like this happened. So can you imagine having
(41:46):
your mother roasted, if you will, or pig butchered and
she then wants to just give up? I mean, what
a terrible thing. Or your father, either one.
Speaker 3 (41:59):
It's terrible, terrible for all of us.
Speaker 1 (42:01):
Well, we know that the FBI's Internet Crime Complaint Center
in twenty twenty four logged in almost one hundred and
fifty thousand dollars hundred forty eighty one twenty seven elder
fraud complaints, yielding four point eight eight five billion dollars
(42:22):
in losses over one hundred thousand seniors age sixty plus
in twenty twenty three complaint logged in complaints, but the
average income per victim listen to this number, the average.
Speaker 3 (42:41):
Loss per victim.
Speaker 1 (42:46):
Was thirty three thousand, nine hundred and fifteen dollars. How
many people don't even have thirty three thousand dollars right?
Certainly not thirty three thousand dollars extra.
Speaker 2 (43:03):
Yeah, Valerie, just a side note for what you just said,
how many people have thirty three thousand or thirty three
thousand extra I read an article about a year ago
that said men from the age fifty five to sixty
five years old have less than twenty five thousand dollars
in a pension play the average man, the average person.
(43:24):
So you're absolutely right on when you make the statement.
How many of people have thirty three thousand, let alone
thirty three thousand of extra right that they don't need
to live on? So it's devastating what's happening?
Speaker 3 (43:40):
Yes, it is? It is. Let's let's talk about where
are these scams.
Speaker 1 (43:47):
Are these scammers located in the United States, Are they in.
Speaker 3 (43:52):
Other countries? Where are they?
Speaker 2 (43:55):
Most of the scams that we have been talking about
today are coming from overseas, which makes.
Speaker 1 (44:01):
Them totally impossible for the FBI to go after them.
Speaker 2 (44:05):
Yeah, absolutely, think about it. They don't need to carry
a gun, they don't have to worry about being arrested.
Some of the networks are found through inner pol, found
out and broken up, but it's only the tip of
the iceberg. The rest of the iceberg is operating at
full steam and as a result of that, it's not decreasing,
(44:30):
it's increasing at an increasing rate. And in addition to that,
to supplement that too, Valerie is the scammers are very bright,
and they are learning new ways to get into our
systems that we hadn't thought of, and so our cybersecurity
professionals here are always constantly watching to see what entry
(44:54):
points into a system are occurring and what they're using
in order to get in there. For example, use one
example we're all told early on when we have a
computer is backup, backup, backup, backup, backup. You've got to
have backup so that when something happens, you've got backup. Well.
(45:16):
The sophistication of the scammers is that they plant their code,
their malicious code, into your backup. They come in and
when you back up You're backing up their code right
into your backup and so when they shut you down
and you say, well, I'm not going to pay that ransom,
(45:36):
they say, okay, that's fine, go ahead and download if
you will into a new operating system. Well you do that,
you still got their code in your system. So it's
really become very sophisticated. This has a lot to do
with companies and that's where they get some of these
(45:59):
huge dollars like MGM I had a thirty million dollar
ransomware request and they refuse to pay a thirty million
It cost them one hundred million to fix the problem. Sure,
so just all lost money. There's no benefit at all.
Speaker 1 (46:17):
Yeah, Now we also see that we know that underreporting
is huge. We've heard that, but some statistics say that
one in twenty five cases gets reported. That means that
the actual losses maybe five to forty times higher than
(46:37):
the actual figures.
Speaker 3 (46:39):
So imagine that.
Speaker 1 (46:41):
Imagine what these numbers we're talking about today about the
billions of dollars that that's just a small fraction dip
of the iceberg. So why do people not come forward?
What's the emotional impact? Why do they not come forward?
And what do you say to someone that feels ashamed,
you can't fix it for them.
Speaker 3 (47:00):
You say, how do you help these people?
Speaker 2 (47:02):
Well, and the only way I can try to put
a little bit of sav if you will, on that
open wound, emotional wound, is to say, just from my
vantish point, I get people of all ages, all educational
levels that are becoming a falling victim. So yes, it's
(47:22):
sad that you've become a victim, but you're not the
only one. It's not that you were ignorant. It's not
that you're uneducated. It's not that you are are not savvy.
It's someone got a hold of you that was better,
a little bit better in the wording in the social
engineering world, and got a hold of you, and you
just slipped a little notch enough to give them the
(47:48):
entry way in. And that's the truth. I'm not fabricating it.
That's the actual truth. Because I mean, three weeks ago,
our pastor and our church here in Brentwood got up
and did his introductions and this is a big church,
Valerie and said, I was scammed this week. I was
(48:09):
on the phone for an hour with an individual who
I finally gave access and they sold thousands of dollars.
And this guy's a smart guy. He's well educated and
should be highly alert to that kind of thing. Just
a red flag, Valerie. Anybody that's on the phone with
(48:30):
you that you don't know for an hour, that's a
red flag, A.
Speaker 3 (48:33):
Red flag hang out.
Speaker 1 (48:36):
Let's we have just a few minutes left, got about
five minutes or so.
Speaker 2 (48:40):
Let's talk about it so quickly.
Speaker 3 (48:42):
I'm sorry, how did that hour go?
Speaker 2 (48:44):
So?
Speaker 3 (48:44):
Courth? Did it did well?
Speaker 1 (48:45):
We'll have you back for sure, and we're going to
talk about your books. We want to be sure we
have time to talk about that. Let's talk about general
safety measures, all right, So what should be what should
people practical advice today that people should be doing to
keep themselves safe.
Speaker 2 (49:00):
One slow down, Slow down on your reading your emails,
slow down on your text messages, slow down on any
phone call that comes in. And I would suggest all
of the seniors that are listening to us today, and
this holds true for everyone though everyone is everyone can
(49:22):
put a setting in your phone for anyone that calls
you that's not in your contacts that it stops the
phone call, it blocks the phone call. So that's one
number two and not in any particular order. I'm just
giving you three. One is build a strong password. I
(49:47):
get from especially the senior community. I get this well,
I never changed my passwords, or I've just got password
is my password, or I've got Valerie Blue Cherry Hill
as my password. The mathematical programs available today, computer programs
(50:14):
available today. If you've got a password that has eight
numbers in it, I'm sorry, ten numbers in it. That's
my first example. Ten numbers. Scramble them any way you
want that password. Computer program can break that code in
five seconds.
Speaker 3 (50:33):
I've heard that.
Speaker 2 (50:33):
If you've got a password with eight characters, that's numbers
and letters in it, mix them up any way you want.
Even if you if you have a word in it
makes it easier. It takes that same computer program thirty
five days to break that password. Now a thief will
wait thirty five days because then he has the keys
(50:55):
to the city for your personal information. So if you
have a password, stay with me on this listeners, this
is real important. If you have a password that has
sixteen characters uppercase lowercase numbers and letters, no words, no words,
(51:16):
I'm repeating myself. It takes that same computer program one
hundred and fifty two thousand years to break that code?
Speaker 3 (51:26):
Is that right?
Speaker 2 (51:27):
So what's the strong number of characters in your password? Sixteen?
Anything up my bank account? I have twenty two and
I can remember it now. Most seniors will say from
the audience will say, well, I can't remember a big,
long password with no words in it. Well, yes you can,
(51:47):
because I can teach that, and I teach that in
my book. I teach that in my classes too. How
to create a password that will you can retain without
putting it into your cell phone, iPad or laptop and
keep it safe and secure.
Speaker 1 (52:06):
Well, and we need that information for sure. So I
know that people will want to know where they can
reach you. Talk about your new book where people can
find you.
Speaker 2 (52:17):
Well, it's so new. I just have my first copy
as you can see here The Digital War, and the
sub title is protecting Seniors from online scams, identity theft,
and digital exploitation. It's a short read for the purpose
(52:38):
of getting information into your hands as quickly as possible
to stop the scourage of identity theft with seniors and
so people can send an email to me at Jim
at business Rice Solutions dot net. We'll have that in
the show notes, and they can call me if they
want to do that as well, and I will shift
(53:02):
whatever version I can give them the link for the
ebook or the paperback.
Speaker 1 (53:09):
We're going to put your information here on our show
right at the bottom.
Speaker 3 (53:14):
We'll have that for you.
Speaker 1 (53:15):
This has been a powerful and a necessary conversation.
Speaker 3 (53:19):
We need it.
Speaker 1 (53:20):
We all need it over and over and over again
to remind ourselves to watch out and be smart. So
we thank you Jim for being here today, for sharing
your wisdom, your experience, your heart. You've not only opened
our eyes but reminded us that awareness is definitely the
first line of defense.
Speaker 3 (53:36):
Being alert, being aware.
Speaker 1 (53:39):
To our listeners and our viewers, if you've been scammed,
or you suspect someone you love might have been, or
might be even now at risk, please know this. You
are not alone, definitely not alone. There's no shame in
being targeted. But these scammers are sophisticated, much more sophisticated
than almost every one of us.
Speaker 3 (53:58):
They're relentless.
Speaker 1 (53:59):
But together we can be smarter, stronger, and safer. So
we want you to share today's event.
Speaker 3 (54:05):
Come back.
Speaker 1 (54:06):
We are your resource for seniors and the adult children
of aging parents, We want to help you be smarter,
be wiser, be safer.
Speaker 3 (54:14):
Until next time, do stay.
Speaker 1 (54:16):
Safe, stay aware and as always, stay ageless.
Speaker 2 (54:22):
Thank you, Belwaire, thank you
Every eleven seconds, an older adult in the US becomes
the target of a scam. Last year alone, seniors lost
over four point eight billion dollars to fraud. That's thirteen
million dollars every single day, and experts estimate that that's
(00:49):
just the tip of the iceberg because most victims are
too ashamed or too afraid to report it. The most
heartbreaking part, these aren't just anonymous crimes. These scams come
wrapped in romance. They're disguised as family members and delivered
by voices that sound eerily familiar, sometimes even ai generated
(01:14):
to sound like a grandchild. That is the dark new
frontier of fraud, and it's targeting people we love the most. Today,
we're pulling back the curtain. My guest is Jim Hughes,
founder of Senior Risk Solutions and nationally reexpected fraud prevention expert,
(01:37):
based in Nashville and speaks nationally to his audiences across
the country. He's made it his mission to protect seniors
and the families who care for them by exposing the
most dangerous scams and teaching how to stop them before
the damage is done. Whether you're a senior yourself or
someone who loves one. The conversation could save you money,
(02:02):
it could save you stress, it could save you your peace
of mind. This is an important conversation that everyone needs
to hear. Welcome Jim to Always Ageless.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
Thank you very much for the introduction. Valerie, it's great
to be here with you.
Speaker 1 (02:20):
Let's start with the scope of this issue. How bad
is the problem?
Speaker 3 (02:26):
Really?
Speaker 1 (02:28):
What are the most statistics, most staggering statistics that stand
out to you.
Speaker 2 (02:34):
Well, we can get all of the statistics we want
from the Federal Trade Commission because that's the receptacle of
reported crimes, and of course not all of them are reported,
as you alluded to in your opening salvo there. But
I guess the thing that I want to bring to
this conversation, to this radio show, to time with you, Valerie,
(02:59):
is that I have the last three and a half
years that I've been in Nashville, I've been speaking at
senior living facilities, geriatric associations, senior associations, senior services networks, etc.
And so I get first hand what's happening in literally
(03:21):
at the ground level. And because of being out speaking
to so many people, people know with the business that
I'm in, So I'm constantly getting phone calls or emails
saying please help me, Can you help me when an
event like this occurs, so I get first hand current
(03:42):
information that I can report back to my audiences to
help prevent the next occurrence from occurring. It is disastrous,
and we'll go into that. I'm sure.
Speaker 3 (03:54):
Well tell us. How did you even get started in
this field?
Speaker 2 (03:57):
Great question, Thank you, Valerie. Good question. This is my
sixth company that I've had, and I started it twenty
years ago because I was sitting in my office when
a pop up came up on my screen and said,
we've got your files locked. We want three hundred dollars
(04:21):
in bitcoins to unlock your files. It was a ransomware attack.
Speaker 3 (04:26):
Which you happen to have bitcoin just sitting in your pocket. Oh,
of course, of course all but.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
Fortunately, fortunately I was aware of what was happening. I
didn't really specialize in those kind of cybersecurity attacks until
that happened, and the boy that drove my mission even harder.
So I started with identity theft for the general business
(04:52):
public for companies and their employees, and got pulled into
cybersecurity by the employers saying, what's this ransomware? Malware thing,
can you help me here? And so that drove me
to answer your question, Valerie, that really drove me to
try to be the strongest specialist I possibly can be
(05:13):
on a daily basis, looking into every opening, if you will,
of how the scammers are getting into our pockets, if
you will. So that was the cause of my mission
to form the company, Senior Risk Solutions, and that's why
(05:35):
I wrote my book, which we'll discuss as we go
through here, to try to help as many seniors and
senior facilities to learn what's coming. Because if they don't
know what's coming, they don't see the bus that hits them,
so to speak. And that's a travesty, as we'll discuss
as we go through.
Speaker 3 (05:53):
We're going to talk about that too.
Speaker 1 (05:55):
So I know that you started out as Business Risk
Solutions and then you've now switched to Senior Solutions.
Speaker 3 (06:01):
So what was it that caused you to do that?
Speaker 1 (06:04):
Was? What was that tipping point for you? It must
have been an event maybe that happened.
Speaker 2 (06:10):
Well, there are several things that occur. Now your viewers
can obviously tell I'm a senior, so I have somewhat
of a liking to that category. If you will. But
the deeper I got into investigating what is happening to
seniors the worst at gout and the problem, as you
(06:31):
well know, is that seniors don't have a chance to recover.
They don't have the time to recover a huge loss.
So as a result of that, I have been focusing
my attention and time to the senior person who needs
to be educated on what is happening. Because, as you know, Valerie,
(06:57):
we were gosh, we were raised when we left the
front order the house unlocked, we had left the keys
in the ignition in the driveway, et cetera. That doesn't
apply any longer. And so what I'm trying to do
is educate as many seniors as I possibly can to
push off a fraud that would occur to them out
(07:20):
of ignorance. And it happens. Every single facility I go
into and speak, the audience comes back with what's happening
to them. I use a lot of those stories in
my book as well their real life that have occurred
in the last twelve months. So it's it's a relevant subject,
it's a relevant scourage on our society, and the fraudsters
(07:45):
know that the seniors.
Speaker 1 (07:47):
Have the money and so as we go into this today,
we're going to hear numbers that are just they're staggering
and almost unbelievable.
Speaker 3 (07:58):
What were some people?
Speaker 1 (08:00):
Our viewers and our listeners are going to say, Yeah,
that happened to me. Yeah, I got one of those calls.
Yes I saw that. Yes, someone tried to scam me.
But let's get right into it because these numbers are
so staggering, and we want everyone to be aware. In
a way, we kind of want to shake everybody a
little bit and say, listen to this because this very
likely could happen to you if it hasn't already. And
(08:22):
we are here today an always ageless with you, Jim
hused to try to stop all of this and protect everyone.
You have called these emotional crimes in the past. Can
you explain why you use that term?
Speaker 2 (08:37):
Well, emotions. Let me use it in two ways, emotions
from the victim and emotions from the fraudster. Fraudster uses
emotions to get under your skin, sure, and that is
to lower your defenses. The emotions for the victim is
(08:59):
the feeling of a real strong feeling of regret, a
strong feeling of embarrassment, a strong emotional feeling of ignorance.
I get a lot of cases of all across the
(09:22):
spectrum of the aged person, from sixties into to nineties
year old. I get a mixed message from them, but
all of them look back at what just happened to
them and say, why in the world did I give
(09:42):
that information over the phone? Why in the world did
I answer the front door and give all of my
personal identifiable information, including my social Security number, to two
strangers at the door. Why in the world did I
give my grandson ninety five dollars from a phone call
(10:03):
when I found out it wasn't my grandson.
Speaker 1 (10:08):
So my question is, so, why are older adults targeted
more than any other groups? Is it really about the money,
because do they really have more money than anybody else?
Speaker 3 (10:19):
Are they just an easy target? What's the deal here?
Speaker 2 (10:23):
Well, it's that's a really good question too, Velarie. The
seniors are targets because they weren't raised in the digital age.
They didn't have a cell phone at age three, they
didn't have an iPad at age six, they weren't raised
with a laptop next to them, just like their toothbrush,
(10:43):
so to speak. And as a result of that, this
is all catch up for them. They're trying to catch
up to the digital age, which is fastly developing. They
can't keep up with it. Plus the fact that in
our generation, Valve, we were raised to trust people. We
(11:04):
were raised that people wouldn't take advantage of us, they
would help us if we need help. And the fraundsters
are usually operating outside of the country, outside the US,
and they don't care. They have no soul whatsoever, and
as a result, they're just looking for the easiest target
(11:25):
to hit. We're going to get the most money, and
a lot of the seniors have money as a result
of that. They're targets because they're easy to socially engineer.
Speaker 1 (11:37):
Well, or they have enough money, or they can get
enough money to save their grandson right, or their child correct,
or their church pastor who sends them a text message
they think that says I need gift cards from Target,
please go get them for me. Happens to one of
(11:57):
my family mambers, So of course, sure they go buy
the gift cards.
Speaker 3 (12:03):
And I think you're right about the way that we
were raised.
Speaker 1 (12:07):
You know, the worst crime then was if we stole
nickel out of our mom's purse, right and went and
bought a coke or bubblegum or something.
Speaker 3 (12:18):
Right, that's the biggest crime, I think. Yeah, you know
that we worried about the most. I don't know.
Speaker 1 (12:24):
Yeah, there's so many things that have changed. So what's
the difference do you think between just a simple scam
and a really more coordinated fraud ring.
Speaker 2 (12:39):
Well, the simple scams are for the beginners. That's where
they cut their teeth, if you will. And a simple scam,
and believe it or not, can be I'll use an example.
I just spoke it in Franklin, Tennessee, at a senior
living facility and a guy about eighty five years old
walks up to me as I'm setting up to do
it and theft awareness and he says, he says, can
(13:02):
I tell you my story? And I said certainly, And
he said I was just scammed out of ninety five
hundred dollars. I thought it was my grandson. Well, in
today's day and age, with artificial intelligence and the scraping
of the internet, if your grandson is on the Internet,
which probabilities are no matter what their age, they can
(13:25):
identify the picture, the voice, the mannerisms, everything that makes
that phone call sound just like your grandson. That's a
simple example. The hard part to swallow it in this story,
val is after the guy explained everything to me that
he lost ninety five hundred dollars, he said, that's the
(13:50):
second time I've fallen victim. So that's how good they are. Now,
that's a simple, if you will, And the one that
you just outlined, where go get ten one hundred dollars
gift cards and send to me. That's easy, easy pasy
(14:10):
for the scammers. Where it gets more complex, it's where
they use social engineering in a much more constant, comprehensive way,
and they get by intelligent, right cognizant people getting into
their minds. And I'll give you one example that had
(14:31):
out of Chicago, a guy pretty well to do, had
a seven hundred thousand dollars CD come up for renewal.
He went online shopping banks to look for interest rates,
which is fine. The problem is he then transferred from
his bank to a bank in Colorado for a quarter
(14:52):
of a percent more in interest, without calling him, without
talking to the bank, without checking their phone numbers, checking
their website, talking to a banker there, et cetera. So
when he transferred the funds that went to Colorado, then
to New York and then to Atlanta and then outside
(15:13):
the country gone seven hundred thousand dollars gone. That is
a little bit more complex. The social engineering gets very,
very complex. And I'll give you examples when you call
for that.
Speaker 1 (15:29):
Sure, Okay. So here's the question how and we know
the answer. Now, how has technology, especially AI artificial intelligence
changed the way that scammers are operating today?
Speaker 2 (15:43):
It gives them an upper hand even more so than
what they have. The scammers in the crime syndicates have
a lot of resources now, a lot of financial resources.
And in my book, I outlined this quick story. Picture
an office building in your neighborhood or your town, your
(16:06):
city across the US. That's three story brick office building.
And these people in the foreign countries Russia is included
as well as many other countries. A guy will walk
up to the front door of that office building with
his two kids in tow and go into a cafeteria,
(16:27):
have breakfast, then take the kids to a daycare center
in the first floor of the building. Then he gets
on an elevator and goes up to the third floor
into a booth a cubicle and sits there all day long,
eight hours, stealing our money, trying to penetrate our resources,
(16:48):
trying to get a hold of the vulnerable pieces. For
I would call it low hanging fruit, if you will.
And then he goes home. He's got benefits some of them.
These people start because of their skill level digitally val
they start at one hundred thousand dollars a year in income,
and then the crime syndicates uh, pit them against each
(17:12):
other with incentives to try to beat each other as
far as money stolen and giving them bonuses. They have
the same benefits that that a corporate person would have
here in the US working for a company in that
in that three story building. So it is very serious.
And as you indicated earlier in the broadcast, the money
(17:36):
that they that they've stolen is unbelievable, and it's a
lot of it is coming from the elder community. Uh.
And and that's what I want to uh and I'm
sure you feel the same. That's what we want to stop.
Speaker 1 (17:50):
Absolutely, yeah, absolutely, And and AI we know also has
played a big part in the voice technology where if
you literally copy the voice of any one of us,
including our children, our grandchildren.
Speaker 2 (18:07):
That's right, and they can they can copy even deeper
than that too, Valve. AI can copy your mannerisms, your
tone of voice, the cadence of your voice, your picture.
They can age the picture, they can create a youthful picture.
(18:28):
It's just amazing what AI can do. So you don't
know who they are. So I because of that, I
advise seniors in my workshops don't give any money or
any personal information to anyone over the phone, over your iPad,
(18:48):
or over your laptop. If someone calls and they say
they're your grandson, you should have a code between your
grandson and you so you know if that's him. Better yet,
just pick up the phone and call your child, your
son or daughter and say where is my grandson. He's
(19:10):
calling me right now from New York or wherever. There
are techniques, very simple techniques that seniors need to learn
in order to put up a defense and keep this
from happening to them. What drives me to be on
the show with you, Valerie, what drives me to do
(19:32):
my workshops is all the people that are losing everything
everything and they're at sixty and seventy and eighty years old.
It's a travesy.
Speaker 1 (19:43):
It's a crime. It is and it's just plain sad.
And I was talking to someone before the show and
they said, well, isn't there some way to like pay
people back or help them or whatever? And I know,
I mean, if they knew the government was going to
pay them back, the scammers would even scam more, right
(20:03):
if they knew that there was no penalty to it.
What are I'm curious and I'm sure our listeners and
viewers are also today.
Speaker 3 (20:11):
What are the top.
Speaker 1 (20:12):
Three scams targeting seniors right now? And everyone definitely needs
to know about.
Speaker 2 (20:19):
Well, can I start with the worst? Well, sure, the worst?
And I caution your your listeners to know that the
purpose of this is to help you recognize what's going on,
but we also want to give antidotes or solutions as well,
so that we do feel like there's some help that's
(20:42):
out there.
Speaker 1 (20:43):
And we want to be a resource for all of
our listeners and our guests and our followers.
Speaker 2 (20:47):
Absolutely, but number one is called pig butchering.
Speaker 1 (20:53):
Yes, tell us what that is, because I'm sure a
lot of people on our show today are listening to
us later on have never heard that term.
Speaker 2 (21:02):
Yeah, and this is one of the worst because of
the effects it leaves the victim with and pig butchering
is where, through social engineering, someone calls you. It could
be a romance issue to a lonely widower or widow.
(21:25):
It could be someone that is suggesting that they have
some investment opportunities that will give you far greater than
the marketplace and faster than the marketplace. And they work
step by step by step through a prolonged development of
(21:52):
a relationship with you, and that grabs a hold of
your curiosity, your emotions, it grabs hold of your ignorance,
and then they use at the very end, they may
even use forceful techniques to alarm you, such as they
(22:14):
are an official, they're from the irs, or they're from
a circuit of the court, a clerk of the court,
et cetera. And then once they have put together a
profile of you with all of the information that they
bring from those conversations, once they have enough to get
(22:35):
hold of everything that you have bank accounts included, they
butcher the pig. And that is they take everything without
any remorse whatsoever. That is number one. What is going on.
Number two is this grandson granddaughter event where a guy
(22:56):
gets called from his grandson and I just had this
happen with one of my Another example that I had
in my speaking events, and that is I got a
call from my grandson in New York. He said, I
was in a car accident last night and I hid
a woman. She was pregnant. She's in the hospital. I
(23:18):
need five thousand dollars in cash to get out of
jail on bond. And this guy said it sounded just
like him, he had the mannerisms, et cetera. And so
he went to the bank. This senior went to the bank,
got get this five thousand in cash, put it in
(23:41):
a FedEx envelope, and overnighted it to this address in
New York. Got up the next morning and said, I
feel uncomfortable with what I did. I don't know what
I did. I gone, I can't. He calls his son
in North Carolina and says, where's my grandson, and he said,
he's right here, right here in the house. But that
(24:07):
sounds like it's illogical that people would not do that,
that they would see the red flags in that entire episode.
But they're doing it all the time because those callers
are so skilled. So the antidote to that is when
that happens, hang the phone, up, don't listen anymore, don't
(24:28):
let them into your head. Hang the phone up, and
call your grandson or granddaughter and find out where they're
physically at, because it's probably a scam. That's something too.
Speaker 1 (24:42):
There was an episode on sixty Minutes one night where
they showed a girl who went from house to house
and just collected money. And there was someone who had
been scammed who was told, you know, someone's going to
come and collect this money from you right now and
take it to your grandson. And so the girl would
show up at the door, or that the victim would
(25:02):
have the money ready in an envelope and hand this
stranger cash in an envelope and off they went. Now,
in that case, because you only you see that so
many times a pretty soon, thank goodness, to bring doorbells,
they could eventually catch that person. But that person may
not even know where the money's going, right, They may
(25:24):
just be a hired messenger, that's right, and you don't
really know.
Speaker 2 (25:30):
So now let me give you the third one. Can
I give you the third yes?
Speaker 3 (25:33):
Please?
Speaker 2 (25:34):
Okay? The third one. Half of the phone calls that
are coming into my fraud call centers in Sacramento and
in Chicago. Half the phone calls are made up of this.
This example I'm going to give to you all right
when I get it in the audience in front of me.
I asked the audience how many people bank online? And
(25:55):
raising their hands and I say, how many people bank
online using their cell phone? Half the phone calls coming
in from fraud are where a senior has clicked on
a link that has come in a text message. Now
(26:18):
this is only text, not email, text message. And when
that happens, they click on what they think is a
familiar link, it downloads malware onto their phone. Sure that
malware follows them into the bank, you bet follows them
in the bank and will sweep all of their accounts
(26:39):
and take their credentials with them. And so I'd say
to those seniors, if you're banking online, that's fine to
do it on your laptop. Don't do it on your phone.
Delete the app on your phone so you're not encouraged
(27:00):
to do that. Do your banking online. And any message
that comes in under a text message, do not click
on it if it's asking for you to take action.
Because your bank, or the irs or the county clerk,
they're not going to send the text message to you
asking for you to click on a link.
Speaker 3 (27:20):
No, no, that's number three. No, none of them will.
Speaker 1 (27:25):
Let's talk about romance scams and who doesn't want to
be loved? Who doesn't want to be made to feel important?
Why are these so dangerous? Why are they so common?
And really what are they?
Speaker 2 (27:41):
Well? What are they is another form of social engineering
To answer that first or that last question that you have.
Why it's so popular is because the scammers have become very,
very skilled at social engineering using romance as their theme.
And I am right in the middle right now as
(28:04):
we speak on this date, July twenty ninth of twenty
twenty five, Valerie, I'm dealing with a guy that moved
here to Nashville from Chicago, and he's single, he has
a dog and has a business all right, right, And
(28:24):
since April of this year, twenty twenty five, he went
online and started dating this woman who then said, let's
go on to let's move off this platform on you now,
What's App? So went to What's App because it's more secure, sure,
(28:45):
I'm sorry, more private, sure. And since April she has
been quote unquote helping him invest in bitcoins and has
taken five hundred thousand dollars from him. Now he's sixty six,
(29:05):
he has no more money. She got him to take
money out of his four to one K as well
as an IRA which means he's prematurely, which means he's
going to have to pay taxes on it, and he
doesn't have any money to pay taxes. And he calls
me a shamed, embarrassed, just vomiting over the phone emotionally
(29:32):
if he will, saying, Jim, what can I do? How
can I what can I do about this? How can
I get my money back? This is everything I have?
And so I made connections for him to the FBI
and to the Nashville Bar Association and Tennessee Bar Association.
(29:54):
Interesting his phone call to the FBI here in Nashville,
the woman that gave him some things to do immediately
to protect himself from further being a further victim said,
this phone call, this kind of phone call of romance
scam is happening every day. We get phone calls every day,
(30:17):
so it is very much prevalent. And it's because they
work off emotions. As seniors think about it too, Valerie,
I mean, you know, if I lost my wife I've
been married to her for we're working on twenty seven years.
It would be a huge emotional loss, and yeah, it
(30:39):
would be lonely for a long time during the grieving period.
And that's what's happening with our seniors in the Unfortunately,
the thieves know that, and they can get online and
get lists of seniors. You can get anything online now obviously,
(31:00):
so they can do they can fill their spreadsheets with
victims and that's just systematically go through each and every
one until they tag one that wants to work with them,
and then they go forward from there. So I hope
I answered your question.
Speaker 1 (31:15):
On you And then the other romance scheme I'm sure
scheme I'm sure you've heard of also is where a
person is romanced online and said, why don't I come
and marry you. I'll come and move in with you
and send me all your money. We had a situation
(31:36):
where a client same thing, older gentlemen sold his house
netted about three hundred thousand dollars. Someone finds him, you
know online, you're a charming man.
Speaker 3 (31:48):
I love you.
Speaker 1 (31:49):
I'd love to live with you, but I need some
help getting there, So send me all your money and
I'll be there meet me in lax On this eight.
Somehow she got him to send her three hundred thousand dollars.
He had never met her, never never met her. It
(32:11):
was all phone calls, all phone.
Speaker 3 (32:15):
Calls, and.
Speaker 1 (32:20):
Of course he went to lax nobody came. He's now
renting a He could have taken that money and gone
and bought a house, paid cash for a house somewhere else,
and now he's renting a home a bedroom from a relative,
has absolutely nothing again, so embarrassed, so ashamed, feels so stupid.
Speaker 3 (32:43):
Yeah, and the money's gone.
Speaker 2 (32:46):
I just had a young fifty year old guy call
me here in Nashville and said, I just found out
my father's been sending money to a woman in California.
You thinks for me? He thinks, yeah, Well, and she
now wants him to sell his house and send the
(33:10):
proceeds to her and then then get in on an
airplane and why out there so we can get married.
And oh, by the way, she works on the TV
set of The Big Bang Theory and she works with
that company. Had all had his attention, got under his skin,
(33:35):
as I call it, And so I told the son,
I said, well, can you talk to him. He said,
he doesn't want to talk about it. He's been sending money,
he's built a relationship with her. And then his son
said to me, Jim, how can I stop him from
(33:55):
doing that? The only way we can do that here Nashville.
I'm not speaking for any state, and I am not
an attorney. I'm not practicing law. Speak to your attorney
about this is to go up in front of a
judge and get a conservative ship order from the judge
so that you can become a guardian take over control
(34:17):
of that. I think the remedy of what I put
in my book, The Digital War Valerie, is that the
children of seniors and their grandchildren need to be more
involved in what their seniors are doing. In particular, the
children need to be involved in what their finances are
to make sure they're not being bled slow but sure
(34:40):
by giving money to one church, you know, repetitiously, or
one person in a romance scam, or one church if
you will that it needs improvements, which in fact, I
just had one of those where I spoke out in
and I think I told you about this off off broadcast,
(35:05):
but it was out in eastern Tennessee, and the guy
came up to me after I did my workshop and
said that he and his wife are just scammed out
of one hundred and nine thousand dollars. He said, I
thought it was our church. So again, the thieves have
no soul whatsoever. And the antidote to this is understanding
(35:27):
that security is not convenient, and convenience is not secure,
and so we need to slow down and take some
different tactics that we've never learned as seniors, have not
learned on protecting ourselves because they're out there waiting for
(35:48):
us to just drop our guard a little bit. And
that's why I want to encourage the children.
Speaker 1 (35:54):
Yeah, and loneliness is such a factor in this. You know,
my mom lives by herself and she got a call.
This person said they wanted to come in. What could
they do? What could they help her with in her house?
And she said, well, this community I live in, they
have people who will go around and do things for
you in your house.
Speaker 2 (36:13):
Mom.
Speaker 3 (36:13):
I said, it's a scam. I guarantee you it's a scam.
Speaker 1 (36:16):
Well, how do you know that they've got my It
could have been my friend Pat.
Speaker 3 (36:22):
She said her name was Pat. I said it wasn't Pat.
Speaker 1 (36:25):
Trust me, it wasn't Pat And Mom said, well, I
just told her that I don't own this.
Speaker 3 (36:30):
I just rent. I said, oh, wonderful. Don't tell them anything, right.
Speaker 1 (36:34):
But the problem is to your point, Jim, what you
just said is that to be the conservator, these aren't
always people who are unable to care for themselves.
Speaker 3 (36:46):
There are people like you or I.
Speaker 1 (36:49):
We might see them on the street and think they're
perfectly capable of managing their own life. And here we
are their children coming in and saying we need to
protect you, and they don't like.
Speaker 3 (36:59):
That very well.
Speaker 2 (37:00):
Yeah, right.
Speaker 3 (37:01):
They don't want their kids to come in and say
we need to protect you.
Speaker 2 (37:04):
They want their independence.
Speaker 1 (37:06):
They want their independence. I'll decide what I want to do.
Of course afterwards. Then that's a problem. But it is
a very fine line to walk, very fine line to
walk to try to protect someone when we think we
know better than they think and they don't want someone
to tell them what to do. They want to be
in love, they want to be loved, right, They want
(37:27):
to do a good thing for their church, yes, they
want to help their grandson, yes, right.
Speaker 2 (37:34):
Yes, And to some extent for some people like I
mentioned with the guy that had the seven hundred thousand
dollars CD. It's greed. And if it looks like it's
too good to be true, it's too good to be true.
And so Maya and your job, Valerie, is to enlighten
(37:54):
as many seniors as we can to help them understand
what's lurking at their door through all of their digital
devices looking to get one step in the door one
piece of code on your cell phone, one piece of
code on your iPad, or to get your attention with
a social engineering conversation or a romance scam, which is
(38:17):
social engineering. So I think that we and our children
need to be involved in that quest towards educating our
senior population.
Speaker 3 (38:28):
Yes, absolutely, tell us.
Speaker 1 (38:31):
Is there one really terrible scam that stands out to
you that you haven't told us about so far that
was just shocking.
Speaker 3 (38:37):
And you just couldn't even.
Speaker 1 (38:39):
Believe it happened, and something was really disturbing to you.
Speaker 2 (38:44):
Yes, I was speaking at a senior living facility in Hendersonville, Tennessee,
and I you know where that's at, Valerie. Yes, And
I was talking about the seniors clicking on a link
(39:07):
in their text messages and this woman after I explained
what it is and what the problem is and what
can happen. She raised her hand. She's sitting in a wheelchair.
Valerie has no oxygen tube stuffed up her nose, so
(39:32):
she's on oxygen in a wheelchair, and she looks out
into the to the audience to her side. She was
at one side and said, I had all my bank
accounts swept. I lost everything. That is that is embedded
in my mind. I can't get that woman's face out
(39:55):
of my mind and the fact that she there was
no way she can recover from that. And I'm finding
through my research, Valerie, there's more and more people that
have lost everything who give up and literally literally give
(40:16):
up and die as a result of that. So that
was one that really burned a mark in my brain
as well.
Speaker 1 (40:25):
To answer your question, so with what you do, Jim,
is actually life saving in addition to saving money and
saving their peace of mind and saving their security, it's
actually life saving.
Speaker 2 (40:41):
Thank you for saying that. I'm going to use that
in my talks.
Speaker 3 (40:45):
But it is.
Speaker 2 (40:46):
It's true. It's true. You're right, You're absolutely good. Observation Valerie, observation.
Speaker 3 (40:52):
If I had lost.
Speaker 1 (40:55):
Seven hundred thousand and it was my life savings and
it was my only chance of ever having anything at all.
Speaker 3 (41:01):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (41:05):
I had one. I have one victim, Valerie tell me
this after this is the one that lost the five
hundred thousand. He said to me through a romance scam.
He said, the only thing I have on my side
is God. I'd prefer to be with God rather than here.
(41:26):
This world is very, very vicious, and I would rather
be with God. And I thought, oh boy, I can
see where he's going with this. And I tried to
turn the ship emotionally. But that's what people think about
when something like this happened. So can you imagine having
(41:46):
your mother roasted, if you will, or pig butchered and
she then wants to just give up? I mean, what
a terrible thing. Or your father, either one.
Speaker 3 (41:59):
It's terrible, terrible for all of us.
Speaker 1 (42:01):
Well, we know that the FBI's Internet Crime Complaint Center
in twenty twenty four logged in almost one hundred and
fifty thousand dollars hundred forty eighty one twenty seven elder
fraud complaints, yielding four point eight eight five billion dollars
(42:22):
in losses over one hundred thousand seniors age sixty plus
in twenty twenty three complaint logged in complaints, but the
average income per victim listen to this number, the average.
Speaker 3 (42:41):
Loss per victim.
Speaker 1 (42:46):
Was thirty three thousand, nine hundred and fifteen dollars. How
many people don't even have thirty three thousand dollars right?
Certainly not thirty three thousand dollars extra.
Speaker 2 (43:03):
Yeah, Valerie, just a side note for what you just said,
how many people have thirty three thousand or thirty three
thousand extra I read an article about a year ago
that said men from the age fifty five to sixty
five years old have less than twenty five thousand dollars
in a pension play the average man, the average person.
(43:24):
So you're absolutely right on when you make the statement.
How many of people have thirty three thousand, let alone
thirty three thousand of extra right that they don't need
to live on? So it's devastating what's happening?
Speaker 3 (43:40):
Yes, it is? It is. Let's let's talk about where
are these scams.
Speaker 1 (43:47):
Are these scammers located in the United States, Are they in.
Speaker 3 (43:52):
Other countries? Where are they?
Speaker 2 (43:55):
Most of the scams that we have been talking about
today are coming from overseas, which makes.
Speaker 1 (44:01):
Them totally impossible for the FBI to go after them.
Speaker 2 (44:05):
Yeah, absolutely, think about it. They don't need to carry
a gun, they don't have to worry about being arrested.
Some of the networks are found through inner pol, found
out and broken up, but it's only the tip of
the iceberg. The rest of the iceberg is operating at
full steam and as a result of that, it's not decreasing,
(44:30):
it's increasing at an increasing rate. And in addition to that,
to supplement that too, Valerie is the scammers are very bright,
and they are learning new ways to get into our
systems that we hadn't thought of, and so our cybersecurity
professionals here are always constantly watching to see what entry
(44:54):
points into a system are occurring and what they're using
in order to get in there. For example, use one
example we're all told early on when we have a
computer is backup, backup, backup, backup, backup. You've got to
have backup so that when something happens, you've got backup. Well.
(45:16):
The sophistication of the scammers is that they plant their code,
their malicious code, into your backup. They come in and
when you back up You're backing up their code right
into your backup and so when they shut you down
and you say, well, I'm not going to pay that ransom,
(45:36):
they say, okay, that's fine, go ahead and download if
you will into a new operating system. Well you do that,
you still got their code in your system. So it's
really become very sophisticated. This has a lot to do
with companies and that's where they get some of these
(45:59):
huge dollars like MGM I had a thirty million dollar
ransomware request and they refuse to pay a thirty million
It cost them one hundred million to fix the problem. Sure,
so just all lost money. There's no benefit at all.
Speaker 1 (46:17):
Yeah, Now we also see that we know that underreporting
is huge. We've heard that, but some statistics say that
one in twenty five cases gets reported. That means that
the actual losses maybe five to forty times higher than
(46:37):
the actual figures.
Speaker 3 (46:39):
So imagine that.
Speaker 1 (46:41):
Imagine what these numbers we're talking about today about the
billions of dollars that that's just a small fraction dip
of the iceberg. So why do people not come forward?
What's the emotional impact? Why do they not come forward?
And what do you say to someone that feels ashamed,
you can't fix it for them.
Speaker 3 (47:00):
You say, how do you help these people?
Speaker 2 (47:02):
Well, and the only way I can try to put
a little bit of sav if you will, on that
open wound, emotional wound, is to say, just from my
vantish point, I get people of all ages, all educational
levels that are becoming a falling victim. So yes, it's
(47:22):
sad that you've become a victim, but you're not the
only one. It's not that you were ignorant. It's not
that you're uneducated. It's not that you are are not savvy.
It's someone got a hold of you that was better,
a little bit better in the wording in the social
engineering world, and got a hold of you, and you
just slipped a little notch enough to give them the
(47:48):
entry way in. And that's the truth. I'm not fabricating it.
That's the actual truth. Because I mean, three weeks ago,
our pastor and our church here in Brentwood got up
and did his introductions and this is a big church,
Valerie and said, I was scammed this week. I was
(48:09):
on the phone for an hour with an individual who
I finally gave access and they sold thousands of dollars.
And this guy's a smart guy. He's well educated and
should be highly alert to that kind of thing. Just
a red flag, Valerie. Anybody that's on the phone with
(48:30):
you that you don't know for an hour, that's a
red flag, A.
Speaker 3 (48:33):
Red flag hang out.
Speaker 1 (48:36):
Let's we have just a few minutes left, got about
five minutes or so.
Speaker 2 (48:40):
Let's talk about it so quickly.
Speaker 3 (48:42):
I'm sorry, how did that hour go?
Speaker 2 (48:44):
So?
Speaker 3 (48:44):
Courth? Did it did well?
Speaker 1 (48:45):
We'll have you back for sure, and we're going to
talk about your books. We want to be sure we
have time to talk about that. Let's talk about general
safety measures, all right, So what should be what should
people practical advice today that people should be doing to
keep themselves safe.
Speaker 2 (49:00):
One slow down, Slow down on your reading your emails,
slow down on your text messages, slow down on any
phone call that comes in. And I would suggest all
of the seniors that are listening to us today, and
this holds true for everyone though everyone is everyone can
(49:22):
put a setting in your phone for anyone that calls
you that's not in your contacts that it stops the
phone call, it blocks the phone call. So that's one
number two and not in any particular order. I'm just
giving you three. One is build a strong password. I
(49:47):
get from especially the senior community. I get this well,
I never changed my passwords, or I've just got password
is my password, or I've got Valerie Blue Cherry Hill
as my password. The mathematical programs available today, computer programs
(50:14):
available today. If you've got a password that has eight
numbers in it, I'm sorry, ten numbers in it. That's
my first example. Ten numbers. Scramble them any way you
want that password. Computer program can break that code in
five seconds.
Speaker 3 (50:33):
I've heard that.
Speaker 2 (50:33):
If you've got a password with eight characters, that's numbers
and letters in it, mix them up any way you want.
Even if you if you have a word in it
makes it easier. It takes that same computer program thirty
five days to break that password. Now a thief will
wait thirty five days because then he has the keys
(50:55):
to the city for your personal information. So if you
have a password, stay with me on this listeners, this
is real important. If you have a password that has
sixteen characters uppercase lowercase numbers and letters, no words, no words,
(51:16):
I'm repeating myself. It takes that same computer program one
hundred and fifty two thousand years to break that code?
Speaker 3 (51:26):
Is that right?
Speaker 2 (51:27):
So what's the strong number of characters in your password? Sixteen?
Anything up my bank account? I have twenty two and
I can remember it now. Most seniors will say from
the audience will say, well, I can't remember a big,
long password with no words in it. Well, yes you can,
(51:47):
because I can teach that, and I teach that in
my book. I teach that in my classes too. How
to create a password that will you can retain without
putting it into your cell phone, iPad or laptop and
keep it safe and secure.
Speaker 1 (52:06):
Well, and we need that information for sure. So I
know that people will want to know where they can
reach you. Talk about your new book where people can
find you.
Speaker 2 (52:17):
Well, it's so new. I just have my first copy
as you can see here The Digital War, and the
sub title is protecting Seniors from online scams, identity theft,
and digital exploitation. It's a short read for the purpose
(52:38):
of getting information into your hands as quickly as possible
to stop the scourage of identity theft with seniors and
so people can send an email to me at Jim
at business Rice Solutions dot net. We'll have that in
the show notes, and they can call me if they
want to do that as well, and I will shift
(53:02):
whatever version I can give them the link for the
ebook or the paperback.
Speaker 1 (53:09):
We're going to put your information here on our show
right at the bottom.
Speaker 3 (53:14):
We'll have that for you.
Speaker 1 (53:15):
This has been a powerful and a necessary conversation.
Speaker 3 (53:19):
We need it.
Speaker 1 (53:20):
We all need it over and over and over again
to remind ourselves to watch out and be smart. So
we thank you Jim for being here today, for sharing
your wisdom, your experience, your heart. You've not only opened
our eyes but reminded us that awareness is definitely the
first line of defense.
Speaker 3 (53:36):
Being alert, being aware.
Speaker 1 (53:39):
To our listeners and our viewers, if you've been scammed,
or you suspect someone you love might have been, or
might be even now at risk, please know this. You
are not alone, definitely not alone. There's no shame in
being targeted. But these scammers are sophisticated, much more sophisticated
than almost every one of us.
Speaker 3 (53:58):
They're relentless.
Speaker 1 (53:59):
But together we can be smarter, stronger, and safer. So
we want you to share today's event.
Speaker 3 (54:05):
Come back.
Speaker 1 (54:06):
We are your resource for seniors and the adult children
of aging parents, We want to help you be smarter,
be wiser, be safer.
Speaker 3 (54:14):
Until next time, do stay.
Speaker 1 (54:16):
Safe, stay aware and as always, stay ageless.
Speaker 2 (54:22):
Thank you, Belwaire, thank you
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