Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Mom, you have seventeen gravy boats, seventeen and you haven't
hosted Thanksgiving dinner in five years. Sound familiar. Well, if
you've ever tried to help a parent downsize, move to
a smaller place, or just clean out the garage that
they've been filling since nineteen sixty seven, you know this
(00:23):
isn't really about gravy boats. It's about memory, identity, independence,
and love, all wrapped up in boxes that you can't
quite figure out how to pack or unpack. Today, on
Always Ageless, we're talking with someone who literally wrote the
book on how to navigate this emotional minefield. And that's
(00:45):
exactly what it is, an emotional minefield. Marty steven Sebner
is the first certified senior move manager in the United
States and her book is brilliantly titled how to Move
Your Parents and still be unspeaking terms, And it is
a masterpiece, and we'll be working through it a little
(01:05):
bit today. And Marty, back in twenty thirteen, was flying
back and forth to Buffalo, New York, helping her ninety
year old father navigate his final years, and at the
same time she was caring for her aunt who was
struggling with Alzheimer's, and like so many of us, she
found herself thinking, and I've been through this, as have
(01:28):
many of you. Why is there no one who helps
families through this? Why are we all just winging it?
So she became that person. She's held a certification in
senior move management. She's professional organizing aging in place and
even hoarding and downsizing, and most importantly, she's helped thousands
(01:52):
and hundreds and thousands of families navigate these transitions with compassion,
practical strategies, and a whole lot of heart. Marty, Welcome
to Always Ageless. It is my personal pleasure to have
you here today. I've wanted you on our show for
a long time, so thank you for being here, Valerie.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
I'm so honored, And what an amazing introduction I kind
of want to like in case that in goal. Thank
you so much, thank.
Speaker 1 (02:19):
You, you are so welcome. As I mentioned to you Marty offline,
we're all kind of going through this too. We happen
to be downsizing in our household. And my mom will
be one hundred and six next week. It is unbelievable.
She still lives by her self, cares for herself, bathes herself,
cooks for herself, manages herself, and so and the reason
(02:42):
she won't go into assist the living is because she
doesn't want to give up everything. So we are you
are preaching to the choir. And when I saw your
book come out in the early summer, late spring, early summer,
I thought, I need this. I need to know how
to move my mom and still be on speaking terms
that are therein lies the challenge right right exactly.
Speaker 2 (03:04):
It's and it's a trick because family, no matter how
well family gets along or family members, you're gonna butt
heads because your family. It's just what it is. And
you're very emotionally tied up in this whole thing. What
people really don't realize their culture as a whole is
that inevitable shift in later life that happens. It's inevitable.
(03:26):
I mean, we should all be so fortunate to live
that long. And it impacts every generation of the family.
I've had grandchildren of my clients crying in front of me,
crying in my arms. So yeah, it's tough.
Speaker 1 (03:40):
So we want to spend some time today talking about
things that I found in your book and plus things
that you and I have both run across as we've
gone through life helping see in your families and the
things that you've found and your profound thoughts and insights.
So let's just start with where you came from. Though
you became a senior manager after helping your own father
(04:04):
and aunt through their later years. So can you take
us back to that time and at what point did
you say there's got to be a better way.
Speaker 2 (04:15):
You know, it's interesting, I've been an entrepreneur since the
early aughts, and when I was flying back and forth
from Los Angeles, where I live now, back to Buffalo,
my wonderful hometown. When I was flying back and forth
at that time, I had an eco handbag of business,
and it for obvious reasons, because I was I was
the DA in the family, the designated adult taken care
(04:36):
of my my father.
Speaker 1 (04:39):
Great term. I'm going to remember that you and probably.
Speaker 2 (04:43):
All your listeners are the das and their families too,
and so obviously flying back and forth and paying attention
to that, the bag business took a huge hit. And
so when Dad finally passed away at the ripe old
Asian ninety, I basically thought, well, I can go resiant
resurrect the bag business. But it's really I mean, it's
just a handbag. And also it's a really cutthroat business.
(05:05):
And I'd also then learned all these amazing things about
later life that I found fascinating from a business perspective.
I also recognized how huge the market was and that
it was only going to grow ten thousand baby boomers
turning sixty five every single day, as you know, as
you know, so I thought, well, what's a good niche
for me? And I've spent you know, all those years
(05:25):
of the handbag business basically you know, keeping track of
inventory down to a single unit, doing trade show moves
Atlanta one week, New York the next, Vegas the week
after that. As I realized my skill set was perfect
for this profession of being a senior move manager that
I discovered it's a very newish industry. Our national organization,
(05:50):
the National Association of Senior and Specialty Move Managers NASAM
n ASMM NASOM, is only it will be twenty two
years old at our conference next month. And I launched
clear Home Solutions and I just never looked back. It's
such a wonderful profession to be a part of.
Speaker 1 (06:12):
What was the hardest conversation you had to have with
your dad.
Speaker 2 (06:15):
And your aunt.
Speaker 1 (06:17):
And knowing what you know now that you've been through
this professional life, what would you have done differently at
that time?
Speaker 2 (06:25):
With my father? This is a do as I say,
not as I did moment. My dad would start to
especially those that last year or so, would start to
tell me one of his stories again for the hundredth time,
and I say, Dad, you've told me that already. At
one time He says something like, yeah, but I just
(06:46):
want to tell it again, you know, And I just
kind of reminised, well, no, now I get it. Yes,
And we really need to have more compassion for our
parents because they're they know the end is nigh. They
know that they're so much closer to the end than
the beginning, and they just while they're here want to
(07:07):
kind of relive that memory in their hearts and in
their minds, and that happens by telling it. So let
them tell you, even make a video of them telling
you the story, because then they'll know that it was
like they have passed their memory onto you. Okay, granted
whether you want it or not. Okay, got it. But still,
but listen to those stories with my aunt, it was
(07:32):
tricky because of course she had Alzheimer's and so we
couldn't really share stories, but it was just wonderful to
be around her as she was. She was so sweet.
She'd forget who I was, and so she'd turn a
corner and see me, and I would just stand up
and each time I say, it's Martha, your brother John's daughter,
and because she still had some long term memory to go, oh, oh,
(07:54):
it's so good to see you. Thank you for being here.
See her beautiful eyes light up like that, and hear
her a fuse have welcome to me a few times
a day, and I just started realizing, like, you know what,
just focus on that. Focus how I'm getting goosebumps actually
because I'm saying this, Just focus on that getting to
hear that every single time. You know, it's just the disease.
(08:14):
That's why you have to reintroduce yourself. So she feels
safe whenever she sees you. But then she just gets
She makes me feel all yumy inside. So it's it's
be open to listening to those stories. And when they
have dementia. It's hard when you're a family member, but
try to remember it's the disease. When you're they're asking
(08:35):
you the same time, same thing, twelve times in an hour.
Speaker 1 (08:38):
You know, when my dad was towards the end of
his life and he lived until ninety nine, and I
didn't know, you know, Chris, hospital call un so we're
in discharge and what one am I gonna do? You know,
you have to go find a place. And we took
him to a place where they kept him for a
few days and they said your medicareism, you have to
go someplace else and oh, nowhere to go and all
(08:59):
those questions, and I ran into the same thing where
I thought, there have got to be other kids my
age who are going through this same thing, and who's
helping them? And that's really when I got my passion
for helping seniors. And certainly then my mom and dad's
friends started to get sick and ready to pass on,
(09:19):
and their kids came to me and I said, you know,
you guys are we don't have anybody to help us.
Where is ours resource? And I honestly think that Marty,
and I think you've seen this in your work and
we're going to talk about it today. Is there's really
I think two groups and my listeners have heard me
say this multiple times. There's our older family members who
(09:41):
we would call elderly or seniors. But then there's us
the adult children. That's right, we're the adult children who
also need help and resource to go to. And it
sounds like from reading your book and how to Try
to Get along with your parents, yeah, you recognize that
that's an issue.
Speaker 2 (10:01):
It's it's so important. There are so many professionals out
there who can help you, all kinds of different services.
They're listed in the book. Plus, I'm launching a new venture,
a startup called age Wise Alliance, and part of that,
part of that website has a glossary of professions, over
eighty of them listed and defined, so you can just
(10:25):
scroll through and recognize how many different people there are
there to help you. And that's so important. And one
of the things you really need to remember is to
put the oxygen mask on yourself first. Even if you know,
let's say your siblings don't want to help you too bad,
(10:46):
don't don't you know, don't just say that well, I'll
get it done. They have they need to help you.
They need to help you and also hire, you know, higher.
Speaker 1 (10:55):
Professional But I think that people might maybe you're younger
and you didn't.
Speaker 2 (11:02):
I'm going to be sixty four.
Speaker 1 (11:03):
I'm almost sixty four. I think we weren't raised thinking
that we were going to be caregivers for our parents.
We thought that by the time we are the age
we are now, our parents might be gone and we
would be retiring and on cruise ships and traveling around
whatever we want to do. And instead our retirement is
now as caregivers. And that so much create so much
(11:24):
stress on a family, between spouses and families and siblings
and all of those things. And I know you've seen
that dozens of times.
Speaker 2 (11:31):
Oh yeah, and especially at our age, Mallery, like the
knees start to hurt a bit, the back hurts, you know,
we get tired, so again, all the more reason to
seek help and making sure you get enough rest to yourself.
It's so important. And yeah, adult children don't give get
sufficient attention as it is in our culture. No one
(11:54):
talks about later life. We know that, no, and that's
awful because I will be honest with you, Valerie, I
won't go into the long story of how at this end,
but and I really accepted that there's a finality. There's
an end to not only me, but everything, everything ends
at one point in another. When I realize that, like
every day I wake up and I'm here, I'm thinking
(12:15):
I'm here. You know I'm here. I got to you know,
suck the mariu out of life, as the saying goes. So,
But also it makes you think about, Okay, let me
plan for that. Later life doesn't have to be a
time that is dreaded.
Speaker 1 (12:29):
No, although we do dread it right, and it should be.
But first of all, we should be considering the stage
of someone's life, not their age, rather than generalize people.
Speaker 2 (12:38):
Oh my goodness, yes, right, right, and adult children. There's
so much stress, especially if you have your own kids.
A sandwich generation.
Speaker 1 (12:48):
Yes, and many of us are in that situation as well.
I read something in your book that's later life moves
ripples through everyone and everything it touches. It makes marks
one of the greatest shifts in the life of an
entire family, and your book, certainly your title itself, relates
to that. But isn't that true that later life affects everyone?
(13:14):
Like you said, your grandchildren, who you hold and.
Speaker 2 (13:17):
Yet because it's really going to especially when your grandparents
pass on. That's really often your first experience with losing someone,
someone dear to you. It's a milestone in everyone's life.
My mom died when she was only fifty eight, so
I had early experience with it. I was only twenty six.
I remember my grandparents as they started departing and going.
(13:39):
They're not there anymore, and we need to get more use.
We used to be talking about it and so on
and planning for it in an EBox past. But where
we are right now is a culture. We just don't
want to talk about it. But there's so much living
in later life for people who are older. Because even
(14:03):
if you you know, I go back to my aunt
who had dementia, she would still delight in so much.
There were all kinds of things she couldn't remember, but
she would she delighted in eating, Like I say, when
she when I explained who I was, she would light up.
And how beautiful is that? And it's really looking at
(14:25):
where the fulfillment.
Speaker 1 (14:26):
Is And there's so much there and so great that
even in her condition, that she that there was something
that brought light to her life and something thatvrent joined
her life. So let's talk about the call. So the
phone rings that starts it all and an adult child
says to you, we need to move, mom. What are
the warning signs that that family needs help or is
(14:49):
going to be in trouble or that it's going to
be easy for them?
Speaker 2 (14:53):
Okay, moving is never easy. It's the third biggest stressor
in life after death and divorce. And I don't call
it relocation. It's dislocation because I don't care how old
you are or how much stuff you have, even if
it's just a backpack full of stuff. When you move
somewhere else and that other place becomes your home, that's dislocation.
(15:17):
And you're going to feel on a joint until you've
been settled there for a month or so at least,
because you have to get to know the new neighborhood.
You got to remember where you put things in this
new place. And also there's just the idea of home.
A home is that place where we go and relax
and sleep and have all our stuff. There's this almost
(15:38):
inexpressible feeling we have about it, and so it's not
going to be easy for anybody. So explaining to that
adult child it's a whole process, not just an event,
And the sooner you can start, the better.
Speaker 1 (15:56):
Of all the people I talk to at the end
of the interview and I say, what one piece advice
would you have for our viewers and listeners. Almost all
of them say, start planning early, and start planning sooner.
Speaker 2 (16:07):
It makes such a difference, it really does. And start
having those conversations plural. It's not the conversation one and done.
It's a series of conversations and talking through things and planning.
Speaker 1 (16:22):
So what's the difference when someone says to you, well,
we should do something, or well, we're settled and we're fine,
we don't need to do anything, but you know they do,
so's they move? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:36):
Well, especially if they're thinking, well, you know, she doesn't
get let's just say it's mom. Mom doesn't get a
hold of her new apartment and assisted living for two
months from now. So I'm thinking maybe two weeks beforehand,
you come out and do the consultation. I say, we
need to start now. We can do last minute moves.
That's a specialty of ours. We can do it. And
(16:59):
it's a little more stroke on us. But again, it's
our professions, so we know what to do. But it
is so much more stressful on the family and especially
on the older adult and I think you know this too, Valerie,
that if there's you know, any bit of dementia or
what we call MCI mild cognitive impairment, if a relocation
isn't handled compassionately and carefully, that cognitive impairment can that's
(17:24):
can skyrocket because suddenly the home that they were familiar
with and that feeling we have about home, suddenly that's
gone and they don't know where things are, They don't
know where they are. They wake up in the morning
and have no idea. So if it's so upsetting and so,
you want to handle it as gradually and carefully as
you can. So that's yeah. The more you can start,
(17:46):
the further you can start ahead of time, the better.
Speaker 1 (17:49):
In your book, you talk about delicate conversations. What are
conversation starters that the adult children can use to start
to talk to their parents about downsizing or moving or decluttering.
How do we begin those conversations without ruining our speaking.
Speaker 2 (18:10):
Terms exactly having them shut us out. Yes, well, here's
the key thing. And let me give you an example
of what I've heard from clients. Let's talk about taking
the car keys away. Talking about a very big thing
to take away from and that's a big thing. So
they'll say, you know, my dad, he really he can't
(18:31):
be driving now. I can't get him to stop driving.
I said, well, have you had a conversation? Oh? Good, okay,
Well what did you say? I told him he can't
drive anymore, it's too dangerous. I said, well, you know,
maybe there's another way to go about it. And here's
what you need to remember. Your parents are full grown
adults and they remember you wearing diapers, you know, so
(18:52):
how could you possibly know better than not only how
can you possibly know better than they do, but also
how dare you tell them what to do? Yes? Yes,
they're on uneven ground. They know their bodies, their physical
bodies aren't as nearly cooperative as they used to be,
That eyesight's getting worse, their reaction time. They know this.
(19:14):
A key thing to recognize about this cohort of older adults,
especially past eighty five, is that they were traumatized by
two of the great tragedies of the last century, and
that is the Great Depression and World War Two. Even
if they weren't aware or were born shortly after the
(19:35):
end of World War Two, their parents were completely traumatized.
They couldn't help but be traumatized by it, and so
and they didn't talk things through the way we do now,
and so they couldn't help but imprint that trauma on
their kids. So their kids learned two things that were
very important. One, everything has value that we could use
that sometime. And they were not allowed to be a burden.
(19:59):
So the idea that you're going to take away the
car keys and now they're going to have to rely
on somebody else to drive, there's pride involved. There's a
lot of fear, a lot of frustration because it's like, well,
what if I just suddenly decide I want to go
to Starbucks and get a cup of coffee, Well, now
I got to ask somebody and all that. So there's
so many different layers to it, but especially it really
represents independence. So when you're talking to them about the
(20:21):
idea of maybe they should move to assisted living, don't
start there. Instead, really respect them, and you know, maybe
over the holidays or sometime when you're visiting them on
a vacation or whatever, and just find a nice quiet
time and just say, you know, I really want to
know from you how you want to be living ten
(20:44):
years from now. Or you know, decline happens, how do
you want things to be? Because you know, think about it.
If they have a good sense of humor, think about it,
this is your chance to be in control when maybe
you're not so in control because you're going to tell
me what you want, So you could go about it
that way. Another thing is, and I've you know, I've
heard from many people it's like, well no, they just
(21:05):
they shut down, they won't talk about it. Well, you
need to be doing estate planning too. Maybe you have
years in place, maybe you don't because a lot of
people don't, but start talking about about it. Maybe shift
the conversation and say and say to them, well, one
of the reasons I wanted to curious about what you
(21:25):
think about for your own life is that I'm really
starting to plan now because you know, the kids are
getting older and I'm getting older, and you know, in
this world, anything can happen in a snap of your fingers.
Speaker 1 (21:34):
You certainly know that you know.
Speaker 2 (21:37):
And so I'm thinking, well, what if something happens to
me and I'm in a situation where my body isn't
cooperating and I need to rely on people, what do
I want? And so I'm kind of thinking this through
and if your game, I'd like to talk it through
with you. Well, suddenly now they're the parent again and
they're in the advisory role, which they're much more comfortable
being in, and so that's the way to kind of
(21:58):
lean into it. It's like, what you think at this,
I mean, is that something you'd want? Mom or dad?
When you start talking about that way, it's very respectful
and compassionate, and you're you're being intimate with them. You're
opening up and being vulnerable, so they might feel safer
being that way with you.
Speaker 1 (22:17):
Good ideas. I tried with my mom because you know,
I'm out in the field and visiting assistant living communities,
and so I would go home and say, Mom, I's
had this great assistant living community today. They have this, this,
and this, and it's kind of close to our house. Well,
as soon as I'm gone, she calls my sister and says,
Valerie wants to put me in a nursing home. Lord Y,
(22:41):
the conversation went, but I get it. Yeah, So here's
advice for another conversation. When you want to say, Mom,
you have too much stuff. You need to start getting
rid of some of this stuff. That conversation doesn't go
very well either, So how can we handle that one better?
Speaker 2 (22:59):
Well, again, remember what they've lived through and what was
planted in them by the era they lived through, So
keep that in mind. So it comes. Maybe there's an
area that it's blocking. For example, I've had adult children
call me and say, you know what, my parents a
hoarding a hoarder apartment. It's a hoarding situation. Well, I
(23:21):
get there for the consultation and the kitchen's find the
living area where they watch TV is fine, their bedroom's fine,
but they the other rooms are just full of stuff
because fatigue kicks in and so one of the things
that that's kind of the case. And there's like a
room full of stuff that you know nobody ever uses.
You can say, hey, do you want me to help
you tackle this? You know, we can go through it.
(23:42):
What's in here? You know, if you don't mind. And again,
always come from the point of view where you want
to be helpful, but only if they want your help.
And this is why it's so important to start way
ahead of time, because then they can say no a
few times, but then they kind of get used to
the idea and maybe they'll rethink it, cause you're not
pushing it on them. Again, the minute you tell your
(24:02):
parents what to do, they're not think of yourself as
you know when you're a teenager. Okay, your parents tell
us to do something, you're not going to do it. Well,
it's kind of a little flipped right now, lit, But
so you want you want to be gentle to ask
them what their favorite and most useful things are. So
if you're starting with ahead of time, you're still saying,
(24:25):
which of these are which of these photos are your favorites?
Which ones do you really love? I'm curious? And so
you can start asking those kinds of questions if you
have the time, if you start doing it ahead of time,
getting a sense of their favorite things, what they use
the most, that sort of thing.
Speaker 1 (24:43):
That's a nice idea, that's a nice way.
Speaker 2 (24:45):
To do it.
Speaker 1 (24:47):
What do you think are the top three mistakes that
adult children make? And we've talked about a couple of them,
I think already, And how could they avoid them?
Speaker 2 (24:58):
Well, again, trying to think of things from your parents'
point of view. You know, it's all about empathy and compassion,
you know, being in the other person's shoes. Imagine yourself
at eighty five years old, and things that you think
you got aches and pains now wait till then.
Speaker 1 (25:11):
Hm uh.
Speaker 2 (25:13):
And and also that I don't forget the culture at
large ignores you. Watch how when you're out and about
Watch how say waiters or people the movies or whatever,
how they kind of ignore older people. It's like we're invisible.
What's about times like when your when your parents were young,
(25:34):
they revered their grandparents. They were taught to do that.
Not anymore so, so when you show them respect and
really appreciate who they are and their age and let
them know that, that's great. Now. At the same time,
I know family issues and I get it. Believe me,
I get it. So it's it's a delicate dance. But
(25:57):
the biggest problem, the biggest area you can make is
telling them what to do. The second biggest error, I
would say, is assuming they will go with your timeline
and also not and with one and that one and
that two. It goes with just not listening to them
and getting their input. And well, actually, you know what,
(26:17):
I take it back. I think the biggest mistake is
waiting too long to talk to them. I think that's
the biggest issue. Is waiting too long with me? It
was serendipitous. I happened to read an article in the
New York Times. This is several years before my father
passed away. The title of the article, I think, was,
you have to talk to your parents about the will,
(26:39):
oh and my siblings and I you have some issues, surprise.
And I just knew I was very close to my dad,
and I knew that when he passed away that i'd
really miss them. It would be awful. And I just
wanted to know that things were set up right so
(26:59):
we wouldn't be fighting legally, So I waited. When I
saw him visiting him at Buffalo. It was a chili
winter day. We were outside taking a walk in the neighborhood,
and I had thought about, Okay, how is where's he
going to be coming from when I bring this up?
I said, Dad, I don't care who gets what, but
I just want to know that your will and everything
(27:22):
else is all tied up with a rhythm with a
ribbon legally speaking, because I don't want to be fighting
my siblings when I'm grieving for you, of course, and
he just started talking and almost like he was relieved
to talk about it.
Speaker 1 (27:39):
Oh, as you had asked him.
Speaker 2 (27:43):
Yeah, and I think maybe he didn't. This is another
stand to realize that your parents may not. They're nervous
about bringing it up with you. They're not sure how
to talk about it with you, which is why it's
really worth finding a way into these conversations and just
set you just saying, I know this is really uncomfortable
(28:03):
to talk about. Believe me, I'm really uncomfortable and just
acknowledging those feelings that this isn't easy. It's hard, it's
hard for both of you, and very uncomfortable. But I
will remember that conversation with him to the end is
just remarkable. Oh yeah, that's nice, And I'm sure he
(28:23):
was just glad that you didn't you brought it up
so you didn't have to be wondering how to handle
it with you. Yeah, you know. And on all later visit,
he actually showed me where all his estate plan documents
were and the safe deposit box key and I would
not have known where to look, none of us would,
And so I was really honored by that that he
(28:44):
trusted me with that. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (28:46):
Yeah, when siblings strongly disagree and we both know that
they do, what is a tiebreaker or a decision protocol
that you suggest. How do you suggest that families work
through the these issues because.
Speaker 2 (29:00):
They have to they have to do. And this is
when working with the professionals can really help. Since since
we're talking about my book and downsizing, let me kind
of address things there.
Speaker 1 (29:12):
Please.
Speaker 2 (29:13):
The cool thing is when you have a basically a
neutral third party, the senior move manager, the person you're
working with there in the midst there's it's really interesting.
People tend to want to look better, look good in
front of a third party. So all that fighting you're
doing behind the scenes, so many people are behaving a
(29:33):
little bit better in front of the professional. It could
be an attorney too. It could be an attorney, a
care manager, you know, whomever. So I do. That's another
reason I recommend hiring professionals for different things. If it's
just if it's just the siblings going you know, kind
of going to war, going into battle, just say okay,
(29:54):
let's go away. If if they're fighting over specific things,
there are great ways you can do a home inventory.
It's best depending on how acrimonious it is. Like let's
go to the worst case scenario where siblings do not
trust one another. You do want to bring in a
third party to document everything in the home, So do
(30:16):
a full home inventory, and then you can start going
through and there are different methods of going about figuring
out what would be an equitable way to define everything.
You can think of terms and financial value, but frequently
the stuff that people battle over the most is the
worn out yellow cookbook that grandma had, or you know,
(30:40):
the bronze baby shoe from dad. Now, of course you
know are the useful, no, but it's the sentiments attached
to them, and then also how angry they may be
at the other sibling. So if you can just like
you have that home inventory, and then you can have
rating systems for how much you want something, and so
(31:02):
you can literally start to quantify it. Oh and so
on a scale of one to ten, how much do
you want this item? And this is where you know
spreadsheets can come in really handy, and AI can probably
help you with those rankings too. But it's a little
calmer if you do have somebody working like a professional
(31:25):
working with you to go through that and to kind
of a referee. But if it's just you and your
siblings or some other relative or a step parent, that's
let the data talk. Just make that home inventory scale
of one to ten. Sometimes there are ties and then
you can like flip a coin or you can just
(31:45):
do a second round.
Speaker 1 (31:47):
But what a good idea.
Speaker 2 (31:49):
And sometimes you have a sibling who won't compromise, in
which case, especially if it gets down to that and
there's usually by that time you're hopefully down to just
a few items, then you can give them. Here's a
hundred points, so assign a number of point. You only
have one hundred, so you have to split them up
between let's just say these ten items, so it's just
(32:09):
do you have to have. If you have to have
this one item, then give it seventy points and everything
else gets through you know, some portion of the remainder thirty.
So that's a great way too where you really have
to come down to the tiebreakers.
Speaker 1 (32:23):
So let's flip the switch on the right. So what
if you what do you wish that parents knew about
their older children.
Speaker 2 (32:33):
That they're scared too, and that talk to them about
what you want your later life to look like, especially
when you start needing care again, so long as you're
lucky enough to live to that point. Okay, like consider
that lucky. If you get to that point where you
need care, what do you want that to look like?
Talk it through with them. Because since we live in
(32:56):
the US and we have to pay for all this
a lot of it out of almost all of it
out of pocket, especially in home care and things like that.
Because of that, you want to get a sense of
the finances. So you want to make sure you know
your own finances and also you know, depending on your
own finances, can your kids help out? Have these conversations now,
(33:19):
as difficult as they are, because if your way to
have more control over your life when the time comes
and you need care, or when you're beyond care, if
you've taxied down the runway and departed, when you're gone,
you get to say, who gets what? What is your
(33:40):
legacy going to be? You get to determine that ahead
of time and legally document it. And it's also a way,
I mean, when done with love, to really bring you
closer to your kids in a lovely way. And also
do recognize though, especially if they have their own children
(34:01):
and they have a full time job, that there's a
lot going on there. So again you may not want
to trust someone to come into your home. I get that,
but you may you need to open yourself up to
that and trust your kids to help you find somebody
who's who will really take good care of you.
Speaker 1 (34:24):
Marty, you have a section in your book that's the
cleanse concept. Yes, and it ends with enjoy m hm.
So what could cleanse be that actually ends with enjoy?
Can you sure that?
Speaker 2 (34:40):
What does? So? The whole process we use the cleanse
concept of my company. C stands for concentrate in one
rumor area at a time. It's very easy to you
you're working in the garage, but you find something that
you go to the kitchen and then leave for the kitchen,
and then other things leave you around the house and
you really don't see what you accomplish. So really focus
on that one area at a time, and then things
(35:03):
that might need to go elsewhere, just you know, put
them near the door, and then when you're done with
that one area, then you can distribute them. L means
localized things, localized items to where they're actually used. For example,
one of my first clients, she was having issues with
getting her bills paid. She was paying them well, she
was paying them on time, but all along her baseboards
(35:26):
there was about six inches of piled up paid bills
and invoices lying there. So she was it was in
her bedroom and she would pay them, sit on the
edge of her bed, write the checks out, and watch DD.
She said, I guess I should do this in the
living room, And I said the living room. Honestly, valery
was its own issue.
Speaker 1 (35:45):
So I thought, I'm sure it was.
Speaker 2 (35:47):
Yeah, yeah, exactly. And so I thought, and I said,
you already have this system. Let's just figure out how
to kind of close the loop here. So keep doing
it in your bedroom. That's where you're used to doing it.
Keep doing it there, and we'll just get a cute
little file cabinet, you know, a little file rack file
that has the ones you need to pay, and then
folders for each different category that you're paying. And so
(36:10):
we set that up easy enough, and I checked in
with her about a month or so later, and she
was so happy because she's still she was still doing
it where she usually did it, and so, you know,
we didn't move it somewhere. And then the first e
and cleanse is no surprise. Eliminate, Eliminate things you don't
use anymore, and keep in mind that items are meant
(36:34):
to be used. They were created to be of use.
You know, I'm anthropomorphizing them a little bit, but think
of it that way. If they had feelings and they're
lying down, they've been stuck in your attic for ten years,
So like use me, I want to be used. So
in other words, if you're not using something or enjoying
it some way, find a way to let it be used.
Give it away, sell it. If it's severely compromised, bid
(36:57):
it farewell, and let it kind of just biodegrade in
the trash, hopefully a little wild degrade, but yes, eliminate A.
It stands for assigned categories. A lot of labels, that's
what A stands for. So you want to categorize things
you want to store in the trade, we say you
want to store like with like, because then you know
(37:17):
that that's the area where all the all the dental
stuff is. That's where all my faster paper clips, rubber bands,
things like that. That's where the office supplies are. So
when you're looking for something, you know where to get it.
And then when you're done with it, and this is key,
you put it away so you can find it the
next time. And that way you don't overbuy just because
(37:39):
you can't find something. We and this is the book.
Actually we once worked with the client she had I
mean honestly, when we'd finished going through her whole her
whole place, we had on the bathroom counter it was
covered with different tubes and whatever of preparation h at
least a third of which it works fired where she
(38:00):
can't buy more. She didn't know where it was. So
that's an extreme example. But so that's a And then
N is note which items need specially handling, like hazardous waste, shredding,
shred anything with I would shread anything with any anybody's
social security number, whether they're still here or not. Just
(38:21):
tread anything with a social security number, among other things.
And then S is learn these news message methods and
use this so you can sustain your new organization and
your new clean and clutter home. And then the e
as you said, is enjoy.
Speaker 1 (38:39):
Clinton because now your life is all organized and it's
all cleaned up.
Speaker 2 (38:43):
Right. Yeah, and you know what, it'll get a little
messy and that, but the thing is now you know
what to do. Like believe me, I can I clutter
up my coffee table in other areas and it gets
the point where it's like that's just too much visual
static and so then I just use my own methods
and it's for good.
Speaker 1 (38:58):
Yes, Well, as I said, we're going through this at
our house, and you're exactly right. We went through things
in our bathroom, my plastic containers underneath my sink, and
I was appalled at the duplicates of things that I
had that I had bought new because I didn't know
I had them already there. So that's a good hint
for anybody. You don't have to be older to do that.
(39:21):
We all should be looking at what we've got underneath
our cabinets.
Speaker 2 (39:24):
Oh absolutely. And also don't ever be ashamed. You know it,
things pile up and lie arell everybody, every single person's
life these days is just maxed out, it is, So
don't beat yourself up, you know, and work in small increments.
(39:44):
Work and pick an increment of time or of space
for example, use it just an hour on a Saturday,
put in the calendar. Even tell a friend you're going
to do it, so that you kind of and that
you're going to call them or text them after you
just so you have a little accountability built in and
before you start turn on some really fun music that
(40:07):
you love that makes you move, Have a little yummy
something standing by, because you want to train your brain
to think if this as it's fun, like you like
you feel good doing it, because after you're done after
an hour, you're going to see what you've accomplished in
that hour and you're going to get that dopamine hit
of accomplishment. So you build all this in. But the
thing is you do it for an hour in one
(40:28):
place and then you're done. Your session's done. So schedule
that next hour and you keep doing an hour every weekend.
You're going to be amaze what you've got done in
a month or six weeks. It's incredible. Another way to
do it, though, is to pick an incrementive space. So
for example, pick a drawer, pick a cabinet, pick you know,
five feet of your closet wrong and mark it off
(40:50):
and so when you're done with that space, your session's done.
So and it's same thing though, play that music, have
make it fun for yourself, something you'll learn to look
forward to.
Speaker 1 (41:03):
And I, for one, have a very short attention span
and me both you're talking this big of a section
in my closet right and you're an hour is way
too long for me and I can't handle that.
Speaker 2 (41:17):
LONGHI twenty minutes, do half an hour. Whatever works for you.
People too often think they have to do it the
whole day. No, you don't. You don't have to.
Speaker 1 (41:26):
One of the things I want to point out, Marty,
is about your book is all the charts and checklists
that you have which are really helpful for people. Here,
for example, as a downsizing checklist, several pages that people
can use and copy, and there are several of those.
I just want people to know that. And also you
have some little tips that are called inside scoop, So yeah,
(41:48):
tell us about what you want people to get out
of that.
Speaker 2 (41:52):
The inside scoops is kind of like from just from
all the work I've done and my amazing colleagues in
my company have done over the years, little tricks we've
picked up that can be really useful. And then I
also have moving moments in there, just these really amazing
stories of working with clients that I will never forget.
I mean, we've worked with so many clients, there are
(42:14):
just some that just nestle inside your heart that are
just if I think of something now, a get more goosebumps.
Oh my goodness. And that you know, in terms of
the checklists and things like this, they are in the books.
They can scribble in the book. Also at the end
of the book, I give a long url, a long
(42:34):
link where you can actually also go find PDFs of
those checklists online. You can download them. Oh good, oh
you know, but but scribble away in the book that
don't worry about keeping how to move your mom and
still be on speaking terms. Pretty use it. It's meant
to be used.
Speaker 1 (42:52):
Yes, and at some point she won't be there anymore,
and that'll be anyway. That's good. It's good to use
it during that process, right. Yeah, have stories. Give us
your favorite or a favorite one that comes to mind
before and after story of how your work really impacted
a family.
Speaker 2 (43:12):
You know, there's so many. The one that really just
left to mind it was a hoarding situation, and we
got the call from the daughter and she had managed
and her mother was a widow, and she had managed.
Her mother had six storage units in addition to her home.
The daughter had got her down from eighteen storage units
(43:34):
to six, and the mother still didn't want to bring
in outside professionals. But her daughter had persuaded her to
do a consultation with me and to let me in
the car port, so maybe she'd let us work in
the carport. And the daughter also mentioned two cars that
imparked on the street forever and how they had so
(43:55):
many things in them. So I remember meeting with her
and her mother and just talking things through. And one
of the key things with hoarding situations is people. The
people who live in these situations and have built them,
they you know, by and large, know what's going on
(44:17):
and are They've been judged, They've had people fight with them,
and there's a reason why they have every single thing,
whatever that may be, and why they don't want want
to let it go. So a big part of what
you have to do when you're working with them is
just to build trust and let them know you're not
judging them at all, and that you're not going to
toss anything out or tell them what to toss out
(44:39):
or anything. You realize that they are they are people
with feelings, and they really have strong feelings about their stuff.
So to give you an idea of kind of this
how her mother's brain worked. All of our brains are
so different, and there is something officially called hoarding disorder,
a psychiatric disorder, and it has to do with executive
(45:01):
function in the brain, how people organize their thoughts and
decisions and things. And it's just built differently. That's how
I explained it to people. It's just built differently. Like
for me, my brain's built differently because i'm you know,
never trust my sense of direction. Ever, don't ever trust
it because that part of my brain isn't built very well.
It's not very dirty. So that's the thing with people
(45:23):
in a horning situation. And so when I met with
this daughter and mom, we were looking through the car port.
I could tell the mom was feeling okay about me,
and then I did want to check in about these
cars on the street. The tires were flat. You could tell,
you know that weird sheen the car the chassis gets
after it's been out way too long, just sitting there.
(45:44):
And I could see that there was a lot of
magazines and newspapers and everything like that in there. And
so as I'm approaching the cars, I said, oh, I
see that there's some stuff in the cars here. Do
you want us to kind of work with you on
that too? She said, Oh, there's nothing in there. We
have to realize that again in the trade. In the trade,
we call it clutter blindness, where people can't even perceive
they really can't see it. And so I said to
(46:05):
her and said, well, I see a few magazines in here.
Do you do you want us to deal with that?
She's like, well, yeah, I guess you can. So this
is how we began with her. Now, thankfully she trusted
us with the cardboard, got through the carboard. She led
us in the house to start working in the house.
And let me tell you, this was it's a one
to five hoarding scale. This was a five plus. The
(46:26):
electricity was jewelry rig. The plumbing didn't work going up
and down the stairs. They moved and there was what
you've seen on TV and in photos, the hoarder's nest
where they sleep and eat and do everything. I remember
turning to my project manager and saying, where do you
think she goes to the bathroom? He said, oh, I
hadn't thought of that. So this is how bad it was,
(46:47):
and how Raquale's La Trinth, the mom was. You know,
she really didn't want anybody in. Well. By the end
of the and we worked for months with her, and
by the time toward the end, she didn't even feel
like she needed to be there. She trusted us so
much to make respectful decisions on her behalf. And a
(47:08):
month or two after we'd finished, I got this beautiful
email from the daughter saying, you've transformed the life of
our whole family because we got I got my mom back,
and my kids got the grandmother back, and she's so
much happier and freer. And when you get to transform
(47:31):
a family's life to the point where they actually expressed
that to you, it's just remarkable. One of my project
managers just got to text the other like a month
a few weeks ago from someone she'd work with a
year ago who had built a hoarding situation, and oh,
the text was amazing. She said, one year ago, you
saved my life. Oh my, And then she went on
(47:54):
and it was just you know something like, you know,
all I have to give is is to say thank you,
and so I thank you a thousand times. It was
so moving when you can do that for someone talking
about going home at the end of the day and
feeling like, Okay, that was a good day.
Speaker 1 (48:15):
Yes, yes, absolutely, that is lovely. That's lovely. And to
tell us, what's next for you? What do you hope
to do with your business and your life? You're starting
your alliance. That's is that what you're calling it?
Speaker 2 (48:32):
A wise alliance? And you know, hys alliance was born
because mind you, we have to go back a few years.
When I first thought of it, I was thinking, people
don't know senior move managers exist and this is so frustrating.
How do we how do we let them know? And
then I was thinking about all the other services that
are out there, patient advocates, the different kinds of attorneys,
(48:56):
probate versus elder abuse, financial advisors who specialize in working
with people in later life situations, all geriation care managers
who are also called aging life care specialists. No one
knows these exist, and so that's why age That's how
age Wise Alliance was born. And now you know, because
later life doesn't come with instructions, that's what age Wise
(49:20):
Alliance is there for. For all it provides for older
adults in their families a personalized guide, the right professionals
and a private family forum where they can all make
decisions together.
Speaker 1 (49:33):
That's nice.
Speaker 2 (49:34):
Now it's in beta testing phase. I mean, if you're interested,
you can contact me at info at Clearhome Solutions dot
com and I'll get back in touch with you. But
we're getting there now. In terms of writing books, I'm
realizing I need kind of need to write a companion
guide to how to move your parents and still be
on speaking terms. I haven't do it from the parents
(49:55):
point of view. Now, you know, how do you let
your kids help you? I haven't. I don't have a yet,
but I'm working on the outlines, so we'll get there.
And then after that, I want to write a book
about solo aging, like solo swagger, you know, aging the
way you want to, like taking on later life rather
than thinking of as a time to dread. Oh my goodness,
I don't know about you, Valerie. I wouldn't want to
(50:18):
be younger for anything. Every year brings more wisdom and
more more of a sense of wonder about the world.
It's amazing, right, it's and the level of confidence just
keeps growing. It's great, yes.
Speaker 1 (50:32):
Yes, And I think what's exciting is that we get
to live older now. No, we're not old, we're not elderly,
we're not seniors. And there are so many opportunities available
for older people because there are so many of us
first of all, and because of Internet and AI, we
can work from a cruise ship. We can go across
(50:54):
the world and still work and do something. We can
write books, we can do start new businesses. I started this,
you know, just a couple of years ago at mine.
So yes, there's great opportunities and I think that that's
really important for everyone to recognize, and that in itself
is something that you and I need to bring to
the world, is to be aware, open your eyes, and
(51:14):
to be aware of what we have as resources here
in our older adults, and to make sure that we
use them also.
Speaker 2 (51:21):
So much we can take on you know, we get
to live lives of courage. It's just it's wonderful.
Speaker 1 (51:29):
Well, we'll have to do some things together. I would
love that, Valerie, with our always Ageless brand that we're
just building as well. Bertie, it's been a delight having you.
As I said, I might have been one of your
first book purchasers. I don't know, but I certainly bought
it a few months ago, so I was there at
that time. I'm so glad to have you here. Thank
(51:52):
you for being on our show on Always Age Us
and sharing your stories with us. I know that I'll
be seeing you again in some other places, and I
know that our viewers and our listeners are so grateful
for your insights that you brought today. So tell everyone,
and we're going to put it on the bottom of
the screen, but tell everyone how they can find you
and how's the best way to reach you if they'd
(52:12):
like to take advantage of your services.
Speaker 2 (52:15):
You are so wonderful. First of all, thank you so
much for this honor and this amazing opportunity to not
only share ideas with your listeners, but also just get
to talk to you. Valerie. You're amazing. So if you'd
like to contact me, you can certainly go to my
web our website, Clearhome Solutions dot com. You can also
check out Agwysalliance dot com and look at that glossary professions.
(52:37):
And if you're in southern California, there are a bunch
of professionals who are already a part of our circle
of professionals, so you can get to know them. Obviously,
there's the book how to move your parents and still
be on speaking terms, and so you can contact us
through the website. There are contact forms there. You can
give us a call. The numbers there and so yeah,
(52:58):
that's the best way to get in touch with me.
And of course there's all kinds of links and information
too that I know. Thank you so much, Valerie, that
you'll have on your website.
Speaker 1 (53:07):
And we'll allow our listeners and viewers to find you
will help them. Also, thank you Marty very very much
for being on Always Ageless and we look forward to
seeing you in other places. Thank you, bybye, Thank you,
Mom, you have seventeen gravy boats, seventeen and you haven't
hosted Thanksgiving dinner in five years. Sound familiar. Well, if
you've ever tried to help a parent downsize, move to
a smaller place, or just clean out the garage that
they've been filling since nineteen sixty seven, you know this
(00:23):
isn't really about gravy boats. It's about memory, identity, independence,
and love, all wrapped up in boxes that you can't
quite figure out how to pack or unpack. Today, on
Always Ageless, we're talking with someone who literally wrote the
book on how to navigate this emotional minefield. And that's
(00:45):
exactly what it is, an emotional minefield. Marty steven Sebner
is the first certified senior move manager in the United
States and her book is brilliantly titled how to Move
Your Parents and still be unspeaking terms, And it is
a masterpiece, and we'll be working through it a little
(01:05):
bit today. And Marty, back in twenty thirteen, was flying
back and forth to Buffalo, New York, helping her ninety
year old father navigate his final years, and at the
same time she was caring for her aunt who was
struggling with Alzheimer's, and like so many of us, she
found herself thinking, and I've been through this, as have
(01:28):
many of you. Why is there no one who helps
families through this? Why are we all just winging it?
So she became that person. She's held a certification in
senior move management. She's professional organizing aging in place and
even hoarding and downsizing, and most importantly, she's helped thousands
(01:52):
and hundreds and thousands of families navigate these transitions with compassion,
practical strategies, and a whole lot of heart. Marty, Welcome
to Always Ageless. It is my personal pleasure to have
you here today. I've wanted you on our show for
a long time, so thank you for being here, Valerie.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
I'm so honored, And what an amazing introduction I kind
of want to like in case that in goal. Thank
you so much, thank.
Speaker 1 (02:19):
You, you are so welcome. As I mentioned to you Marty offline,
we're all kind of going through this too. We happen
to be downsizing in our household. And my mom will
be one hundred and six next week. It is unbelievable.
She still lives by her self, cares for herself, bathes herself,
cooks for herself, manages herself, and so and the reason
(02:42):
she won't go into assist the living is because she
doesn't want to give up everything. So we are you
are preaching to the choir. And when I saw your
book come out in the early summer, late spring, early summer,
I thought, I need this. I need to know how
to move my mom and still be on speaking terms
that are therein lies the challenge right right exactly.
Speaker 2 (03:04):
It's and it's a trick because family, no matter how
well family gets along or family members, you're gonna butt
heads because your family. It's just what it is. And
you're very emotionally tied up in this whole thing. What
people really don't realize their culture as a whole is
that inevitable shift in later life that happens. It's inevitable.
(03:26):
I mean, we should all be so fortunate to live
that long. And it impacts every generation of the family.
I've had grandchildren of my clients crying in front of me,
crying in my arms. So yeah, it's tough.
Speaker 1 (03:40):
So we want to spend some time today talking about
things that I found in your book and plus things
that you and I have both run across as we've
gone through life helping see in your families and the
things that you've found and your profound thoughts and insights.
So let's just start with where you came from. Though
you became a senior manager after helping your own father
(04:04):
and aunt through their later years. So can you take
us back to that time and at what point did
you say there's got to be a better way.
Speaker 2 (04:15):
You know, it's interesting, I've been an entrepreneur since the
early aughts, and when I was flying back and forth
from Los Angeles, where I live now, back to Buffalo,
my wonderful hometown. When I was flying back and forth
at that time, I had an eco handbag of business,
and it for obvious reasons, because I was I was
the DA in the family, the designated adult taken care
(04:36):
of my my father.
Speaker 1 (04:39):
Great term. I'm going to remember that you and probably.
Speaker 2 (04:43):
All your listeners are the das and their families too,
and so obviously flying back and forth and paying attention
to that, the bag business took a huge hit. And
so when Dad finally passed away at the ripe old
Asian ninety, I basically thought, well, I can go resiant
resurrect the bag business. But it's really I mean, it's
just a handbag. And also it's a really cutthroat business.
(05:05):
And I'd also then learned all these amazing things about
later life that I found fascinating from a business perspective.
I also recognized how huge the market was and that
it was only going to grow ten thousand baby boomers
turning sixty five every single day, as you know, as
you know, so I thought, well, what's a good niche
for me? And I've spent you know, all those years
(05:25):
of the handbag business basically you know, keeping track of
inventory down to a single unit, doing trade show moves
Atlanta one week, New York the next, Vegas the week
after that. As I realized my skill set was perfect
for this profession of being a senior move manager that
I discovered it's a very newish industry. Our national organization,
(05:50):
the National Association of Senior and Specialty Move Managers NASAM
n ASMM NASOM, is only it will be twenty two
years old at our conference next month. And I launched
clear Home Solutions and I just never looked back. It's
such a wonderful profession to be a part of.
Speaker 1 (06:12):
What was the hardest conversation you had to have with
your dad.
Speaker 2 (06:15):
And your aunt.
Speaker 1 (06:17):
And knowing what you know now that you've been through
this professional life, what would you have done differently at
that time?
Speaker 2 (06:25):
With my father? This is a do as I say,
not as I did moment. My dad would start to
especially those that last year or so, would start to
tell me one of his stories again for the hundredth time,
and I say, Dad, you've told me that already. At
one time He says something like, yeah, but I just
(06:46):
want to tell it again, you know, And I just
kind of reminised, well, no, now I get it. Yes,
And we really need to have more compassion for our
parents because they're they know the end is nigh. They
know that they're so much closer to the end than
the beginning, and they just while they're here want to
(07:07):
kind of relive that memory in their hearts and in
their minds, and that happens by telling it. So let
them tell you, even make a video of them telling
you the story, because then they'll know that it was
like they have passed their memory onto you. Okay, granted
whether you want it or not. Okay, got it. But still,
but listen to those stories with my aunt, it was
(07:32):
tricky because of course she had Alzheimer's and so we
couldn't really share stories, but it was just wonderful to
be around her as she was. She was so sweet.
She'd forget who I was, and so she'd turn a
corner and see me, and I would just stand up
and each time I say, it's Martha, your brother John's daughter,
and because she still had some long term memory to go, oh, oh,
(07:54):
it's so good to see you. Thank you for being here.
See her beautiful eyes light up like that, and hear
her a fuse have welcome to me a few times
a day, and I just started realizing, like, you know what,
just focus on that. Focus how I'm getting goosebumps actually
because I'm saying this, Just focus on that getting to
hear that every single time. You know, it's just the disease.
(08:14):
That's why you have to reintroduce yourself. So she feels
safe whenever she sees you. But then she just gets
She makes me feel all yumy inside. So it's it's
be open to listening to those stories. And when they
have dementia. It's hard when you're a family member, but
try to remember it's the disease. When you're they're asking
(08:35):
you the same time, same thing, twelve times in an hour.
Speaker 1 (08:38):
You know, when my dad was towards the end of
his life and he lived until ninety nine, and I
didn't know, you know, Chris, hospital call un so we're
in discharge and what one am I gonna do? You know,
you have to go find a place. And we took
him to a place where they kept him for a
few days and they said your medicareism, you have to
go someplace else and oh, nowhere to go and all
(08:59):
those questions, and I ran into the same thing where
I thought, there have got to be other kids my
age who are going through this same thing, and who's
helping them? And that's really when I got my passion
for helping seniors. And certainly then my mom and dad's
friends started to get sick and ready to pass on,
(09:19):
and their kids came to me and I said, you know,
you guys are we don't have anybody to help us.
Where is ours resource? And I honestly think that Marty,
and I think you've seen this in your work and
we're going to talk about it today. Is there's really
I think two groups and my listeners have heard me
say this multiple times. There's our older family members who
(09:41):
we would call elderly or seniors. But then there's us
the adult children. That's right, we're the adult children who
also need help and resource to go to. And it
sounds like from reading your book and how to Try
to Get along with your parents, yeah, you recognize that
that's an issue.
Speaker 2 (10:01):
It's it's so important. There are so many professionals out
there who can help you, all kinds of different services.
They're listed in the book. Plus, I'm launching a new venture,
a startup called age Wise Alliance, and part of that,
part of that website has a glossary of professions, over
eighty of them listed and defined, so you can just
(10:25):
scroll through and recognize how many different people there are
there to help you. And that's so important. And one
of the things you really need to remember is to
put the oxygen mask on yourself first. Even if you know,
let's say your siblings don't want to help you too bad,
(10:46):
don't don't you know, don't just say that well, I'll
get it done. They have they need to help you.
They need to help you and also hire, you know, higher.
Speaker 1 (10:55):
Professional But I think that people might maybe you're younger
and you didn't.
Speaker 2 (11:02):
I'm going to be sixty four.
Speaker 1 (11:03):
I'm almost sixty four. I think we weren't raised thinking
that we were going to be caregivers for our parents.
We thought that by the time we are the age
we are now, our parents might be gone and we
would be retiring and on cruise ships and traveling around
whatever we want to do. And instead our retirement is
now as caregivers. And that so much create so much
(11:24):
stress on a family, between spouses and families and siblings
and all of those things. And I know you've seen
that dozens of times.
Speaker 2 (11:31):
Oh yeah, and especially at our age, Mallery, like the
knees start to hurt a bit, the back hurts, you know,
we get tired, so again, all the more reason to
seek help and making sure you get enough rest to yourself.
It's so important. And yeah, adult children don't give get
sufficient attention as it is in our culture. No one
(11:54):
talks about later life. We know that, no, and that's
awful because I will be honest with you, Valerie, I
won't go into the long story of how at this end,
but and I really accepted that there's a finality. There's
an end to not only me, but everything, everything ends
at one point in another. When I realize that, like
every day I wake up and I'm here, I'm thinking
(12:15):
I'm here. You know I'm here. I got to you know,
suck the mariu out of life, as the saying goes. So,
But also it makes you think about, Okay, let me
plan for that. Later life doesn't have to be a
time that is dreaded.
Speaker 1 (12:29):
No, although we do dread it right, and it should be.
But first of all, we should be considering the stage
of someone's life, not their age, rather than generalize people.
Speaker 2 (12:38):
Oh my goodness, yes, right, right, and adult children. There's
so much stress, especially if you have your own kids.
A sandwich generation.
Speaker 1 (12:48):
Yes, and many of us are in that situation as well.
I read something in your book that's later life moves
ripples through everyone and everything it touches. It makes marks
one of the greatest shifts in the life of an
entire family, and your book, certainly your title itself, relates
to that. But isn't that true that later life affects everyone?
(13:14):
Like you said, your grandchildren, who you hold and.
Speaker 2 (13:17):
Yet because it's really going to especially when your grandparents
pass on. That's really often your first experience with losing someone,
someone dear to you. It's a milestone in everyone's life.
My mom died when she was only fifty eight, so
I had early experience with it. I was only twenty six.
I remember my grandparents as they started departing and going.
(13:39):
They're not there anymore, and we need to get more use.
We used to be talking about it and so on
and planning for it in an EBox past. But where
we are right now is a culture. We just don't
want to talk about it. But there's so much living
in later life for people who are older. Because even
(14:03):
if you you know, I go back to my aunt
who had dementia, she would still delight in so much.
There were all kinds of things she couldn't remember, but
she would she delighted in eating, Like I say, when
she when I explained who I was, she would light up.
And how beautiful is that? And it's really looking at
(14:25):
where the fulfillment.
Speaker 1 (14:26):
Is And there's so much there and so great that
even in her condition, that she that there was something
that brought light to her life and something thatvrent joined
her life. So let's talk about the call. So the
phone rings that starts it all and an adult child
says to you, we need to move, mom. What are
the warning signs that that family needs help or is
(14:49):
going to be in trouble or that it's going to
be easy for them?
Speaker 2 (14:53):
Okay, moving is never easy. It's the third biggest stressor
in life after death and divorce. And I don't call
it relocation. It's dislocation because I don't care how old
you are or how much stuff you have, even if
it's just a backpack full of stuff. When you move
somewhere else and that other place becomes your home, that's dislocation.
(15:17):
And you're going to feel on a joint until you've
been settled there for a month or so at least,
because you have to get to know the new neighborhood.
You got to remember where you put things in this
new place. And also there's just the idea of home.
A home is that place where we go and relax
and sleep and have all our stuff. There's this almost
(15:38):
inexpressible feeling we have about it, and so it's not
going to be easy for anybody. So explaining to that
adult child it's a whole process, not just an event,
And the sooner you can start, the better.
Speaker 1 (15:56):
Of all the people I talk to at the end
of the interview and I say, what one piece advice
would you have for our viewers and listeners. Almost all
of them say, start planning early, and start planning sooner.
Speaker 2 (16:07):
It makes such a difference, it really does. And start
having those conversations plural. It's not the conversation one and done.
It's a series of conversations and talking through things and planning.
Speaker 1 (16:22):
So what's the difference when someone says to you, well,
we should do something, or well, we're settled and we're fine,
we don't need to do anything, but you know they do,
so's they move? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:36):
Well, especially if they're thinking, well, you know, she doesn't
get let's just say it's mom. Mom doesn't get a
hold of her new apartment and assisted living for two
months from now. So I'm thinking maybe two weeks beforehand,
you come out and do the consultation. I say, we
need to start now. We can do last minute moves.
That's a specialty of ours. We can do it. And
(16:59):
it's a little more stroke on us. But again, it's
our professions, so we know what to do. But it
is so much more stressful on the family and especially
on the older adult and I think you know this too, Valerie,
that if there's you know, any bit of dementia or
what we call MCI mild cognitive impairment, if a relocation
isn't handled compassionately and carefully, that cognitive impairment can that's
(17:24):
can skyrocket because suddenly the home that they were familiar
with and that feeling we have about home, suddenly that's
gone and they don't know where things are, They don't
know where they are. They wake up in the morning
and have no idea. So if it's so upsetting and so,
you want to handle it as gradually and carefully as
you can. So that's yeah. The more you can start,
(17:46):
the further you can start ahead of time, the better.
Speaker 1 (17:49):
In your book, you talk about delicate conversations. What are
conversation starters that the adult children can use to start
to talk to their parents about downsizing or moving or decluttering.
How do we begin those conversations without ruining our speaking.
Speaker 2 (18:10):
Terms exactly having them shut us out. Yes, well, here's
the key thing. And let me give you an example
of what I've heard from clients. Let's talk about taking
the car keys away. Talking about a very big thing
to take away from and that's a big thing. So
they'll say, you know, my dad, he really he can't
(18:31):
be driving now. I can't get him to stop driving.
I said, well, have you had a conversation? Oh? Good, okay,
Well what did you say? I told him he can't
drive anymore, it's too dangerous. I said, well, you know,
maybe there's another way to go about it. And here's
what you need to remember. Your parents are full grown
adults and they remember you wearing diapers, you know, so
(18:52):
how could you possibly know better than not only how
can you possibly know better than they do, but also
how dare you tell them what to do? Yes? Yes,
they're on uneven ground. They know their bodies, their physical
bodies aren't as nearly cooperative as they used to be,
That eyesight's getting worse, their reaction time. They know this.
(19:14):
A key thing to recognize about this cohort of older adults,
especially past eighty five, is that they were traumatized by
two of the great tragedies of the last century, and
that is the Great Depression and World War Two. Even
if they weren't aware or were born shortly after the
(19:35):
end of World War Two, their parents were completely traumatized.
They couldn't help but be traumatized by it, and so
and they didn't talk things through the way we do now,
and so they couldn't help but imprint that trauma on
their kids. So their kids learned two things that were
very important. One, everything has value that we could use
that sometime. And they were not allowed to be a burden.
(19:59):
So the idea that you're going to take away the
car keys and now they're going to have to rely
on somebody else to drive, there's pride involved. There's a
lot of fear, a lot of frustration because it's like, well,
what if I just suddenly decide I want to go
to Starbucks and get a cup of coffee, Well, now
I got to ask somebody and all that. So there's
so many different layers to it, but especially it really
represents independence. So when you're talking to them about the
(20:21):
idea of maybe they should move to assisted living, don't
start there. Instead, really respect them, and you know, maybe
over the holidays or sometime when you're visiting them on
a vacation or whatever, and just find a nice quiet
time and just say, you know, I really want to
know from you how you want to be living ten
(20:44):
years from now. Or you know, decline happens, how do
you want things to be? Because you know, think about it.
If they have a good sense of humor, think about it,
this is your chance to be in control when maybe
you're not so in control because you're going to tell
me what you want, So you could go about it
that way. Another thing is, and I've you know, I've
heard from many people it's like, well no, they just
(21:05):
they shut down, they won't talk about it. Well, you
need to be doing estate planning too. Maybe you have
years in place, maybe you don't because a lot of
people don't, but start talking about about it. Maybe shift
the conversation and say and say to them, well, one
of the reasons I wanted to curious about what you
(21:25):
think about for your own life is that I'm really
starting to plan now because you know, the kids are
getting older and I'm getting older, and you know, in
this world, anything can happen in a snap of your fingers.
Speaker 1 (21:34):
You certainly know that you know.
Speaker 2 (21:37):
And so I'm thinking, well, what if something happens to
me and I'm in a situation where my body isn't
cooperating and I need to rely on people, what do
I want? And so I'm kind of thinking this through
and if your game, I'd like to talk it through
with you. Well, suddenly now they're the parent again and
they're in the advisory role, which they're much more comfortable
being in, and so that's the way to kind of
(21:58):
lean into it. It's like, what you think at this,
I mean, is that something you'd want? Mom or dad?
When you start talking about that way, it's very respectful
and compassionate, and you're you're being intimate with them. You're
opening up and being vulnerable, so they might feel safer
being that way with you.
Speaker 1 (22:17):
Good ideas. I tried with my mom because you know,
I'm out in the field and visiting assistant living communities,
and so I would go home and say, Mom, I's
had this great assistant living community today. They have this, this,
and this, and it's kind of close to our house. Well,
as soon as I'm gone, she calls my sister and says,
Valerie wants to put me in a nursing home. Lord Y,
(22:41):
the conversation went, but I get it. Yeah, So here's
advice for another conversation. When you want to say, Mom,
you have too much stuff. You need to start getting
rid of some of this stuff. That conversation doesn't go
very well either, So how can we handle that one better?
Speaker 2 (22:59):
Well, again, remember what they've lived through and what was
planted in them by the era they lived through, So
keep that in mind. So it comes. Maybe there's an
area that it's blocking. For example, I've had adult children
call me and say, you know what, my parents a
hoarding a hoarder apartment. It's a hoarding situation. Well, I
(23:21):
get there for the consultation and the kitchen's find the
living area where they watch TV is fine, their bedroom's fine,
but they the other rooms are just full of stuff
because fatigue kicks in and so one of the things
that that's kind of the case. And there's like a
room full of stuff that you know nobody ever uses.
You can say, hey, do you want me to help
you tackle this? You know, we can go through it.
(23:42):
What's in here? You know, if you don't mind. And again,
always come from the point of view where you want
to be helpful, but only if they want your help.
And this is why it's so important to start way
ahead of time, because then they can say no a
few times, but then they kind of get used to
the idea and maybe they'll rethink it, cause you're not
pushing it on them. Again, the minute you tell your
(24:02):
parents what to do, they're not think of yourself as
you know when you're a teenager. Okay, your parents tell
us to do something, you're not going to do it. Well,
it's kind of a little flipped right now, lit, But
so you want you want to be gentle to ask
them what their favorite and most useful things are. So
if you're starting with ahead of time, you're still saying,
(24:25):
which of these are which of these photos are your favorites?
Which ones do you really love? I'm curious? And so
you can start asking those kinds of questions if you
have the time, if you start doing it ahead of time,
getting a sense of their favorite things, what they use
the most, that sort of thing.
Speaker 1 (24:43):
That's a nice idea, that's a nice way.
Speaker 2 (24:45):
To do it.
Speaker 1 (24:47):
What do you think are the top three mistakes that
adult children make? And we've talked about a couple of them,
I think already, And how could they avoid them?
Speaker 2 (24:58):
Well, again, trying to think of things from your parents'
point of view. You know, it's all about empathy and compassion,
you know, being in the other person's shoes. Imagine yourself
at eighty five years old, and things that you think
you got aches and pains now wait till then.
Speaker 1 (25:11):
Hm uh.
Speaker 2 (25:13):
And and also that I don't forget the culture at
large ignores you. Watch how when you're out and about
Watch how say waiters or people the movies or whatever,
how they kind of ignore older people. It's like we're invisible.
What's about times like when your when your parents were young,
(25:34):
they revered their grandparents. They were taught to do that.
Not anymore so, so when you show them respect and
really appreciate who they are and their age and let
them know that, that's great. Now. At the same time,
I know family issues and I get it. Believe me,
I get it. So it's it's a delicate dance. But
(25:57):
the biggest problem, the biggest area you can make is
telling them what to do. The second biggest error, I
would say, is assuming they will go with your timeline
and also not and with one and that one and
that two. It goes with just not listening to them
and getting their input. And well, actually, you know what,
(26:17):
I take it back. I think the biggest mistake is
waiting too long to talk to them. I think that's
the biggest issue. Is waiting too long with me? It
was serendipitous. I happened to read an article in the
New York Times. This is several years before my father
passed away. The title of the article, I think, was,
you have to talk to your parents about the will,
(26:39):
oh and my siblings and I you have some issues, surprise.
And I just knew I was very close to my dad,
and I knew that when he passed away that i'd
really miss them. It would be awful. And I just
wanted to know that things were set up right so
(26:59):
we wouldn't be fighting legally, So I waited. When I
saw him visiting him at Buffalo. It was a chili
winter day. We were outside taking a walk in the neighborhood,
and I had thought about, Okay, how is where's he
going to be coming from when I bring this up?
I said, Dad, I don't care who gets what, but
I just want to know that your will and everything
(27:22):
else is all tied up with a rhythm with a
ribbon legally speaking, because I don't want to be fighting
my siblings when I'm grieving for you, of course, and
he just started talking and almost like he was relieved
to talk about it.
Speaker 1 (27:39):
Oh, as you had asked him.
Speaker 2 (27:43):
Yeah, and I think maybe he didn't. This is another
stand to realize that your parents may not. They're nervous
about bringing it up with you. They're not sure how
to talk about it with you, which is why it's
really worth finding a way into these conversations and just
set you just saying, I know this is really uncomfortable
(28:03):
to talk about. Believe me, I'm really uncomfortable and just
acknowledging those feelings that this isn't easy. It's hard, it's
hard for both of you, and very uncomfortable. But I
will remember that conversation with him to the end is
just remarkable. Oh yeah, that's nice, And I'm sure he
(28:23):
was just glad that you didn't you brought it up
so you didn't have to be wondering how to handle
it with you. Yeah, you know. And on all later visit,
he actually showed me where all his estate plan documents
were and the safe deposit box key and I would
not have known where to look, none of us would,
And so I was really honored by that that he
(28:44):
trusted me with that. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (28:46):
Yeah, when siblings strongly disagree and we both know that
they do, what is a tiebreaker or a decision protocol
that you suggest. How do you suggest that families work
through the these issues because.
Speaker 2 (29:00):
They have to they have to do. And this is
when working with the professionals can really help. Since since
we're talking about my book and downsizing, let me kind
of address things there.
Speaker 1 (29:12):
Please.
Speaker 2 (29:13):
The cool thing is when you have a basically a
neutral third party, the senior move manager, the person you're
working with there in the midst there's it's really interesting.
People tend to want to look better, look good in
front of a third party. So all that fighting you're
doing behind the scenes, so many people are behaving a
(29:33):
little bit better in front of the professional. It could
be an attorney too. It could be an attorney, a
care manager, you know, whomever. So I do. That's another
reason I recommend hiring professionals for different things. If it's
just if it's just the siblings going you know, kind
of going to war, going into battle, just say okay,
(29:54):
let's go away. If if they're fighting over specific things,
there are great ways you can do a home inventory.
It's best depending on how acrimonious it is. Like let's
go to the worst case scenario where siblings do not
trust one another. You do want to bring in a
third party to document everything in the home, So do
(30:16):
a full home inventory, and then you can start going
through and there are different methods of going about figuring
out what would be an equitable way to define everything.
You can think of terms and financial value, but frequently
the stuff that people battle over the most is the
worn out yellow cookbook that grandma had, or you know,
(30:40):
the bronze baby shoe from dad. Now, of course you
know are the useful, no, but it's the sentiments attached
to them, and then also how angry they may be
at the other sibling. So if you can just like
you have that home inventory, and then you can have
rating systems for how much you want something, and so
(31:02):
you can literally start to quantify it. Oh and so
on a scale of one to ten, how much do
you want this item? And this is where you know
spreadsheets can come in really handy, and AI can probably
help you with those rankings too. But it's a little
calmer if you do have somebody working like a professional
(31:25):
working with you to go through that and to kind
of a referee. But if it's just you and your
siblings or some other relative or a step parent, that's
let the data talk. Just make that home inventory scale
of one to ten. Sometimes there are ties and then
you can like flip a coin or you can just
(31:45):
do a second round.
Speaker 1 (31:47):
But what a good idea.
Speaker 2 (31:49):
And sometimes you have a sibling who won't compromise, in
which case, especially if it gets down to that and
there's usually by that time you're hopefully down to just
a few items, then you can give them. Here's a
hundred points, so assign a number of point. You only
have one hundred, so you have to split them up
between let's just say these ten items, so it's just
(32:09):
do you have to have. If you have to have
this one item, then give it seventy points and everything
else gets through you know, some portion of the remainder thirty.
So that's a great way too where you really have
to come down to the tiebreakers.
Speaker 1 (32:23):
So let's flip the switch on the right. So what
if you what do you wish that parents knew about
their older children.
Speaker 2 (32:33):
That they're scared too, and that talk to them about
what you want your later life to look like, especially
when you start needing care again, so long as you're
lucky enough to live to that point. Okay, like consider
that lucky. If you get to that point where you
need care, what do you want that to look like?
Talk it through with them. Because since we live in
(32:56):
the US and we have to pay for all this
a lot of it out of almost all of it
out of pocket, especially in home care and things like that.
Because of that, you want to get a sense of
the finances. So you want to make sure you know
your own finances and also you know, depending on your
own finances, can your kids help out? Have these conversations now,
(33:19):
as difficult as they are, because if your way to
have more control over your life when the time comes
and you need care, or when you're beyond care, if
you've taxied down the runway and departed, when you're gone,
you get to say, who gets what? What is your
(33:40):
legacy going to be? You get to determine that ahead
of time and legally document it. And it's also a way,
I mean, when done with love, to really bring you
closer to your kids in a lovely way. And also
do recognize though, especially if they have their own children
(34:01):
and they have a full time job, that there's a
lot going on there. So again you may not want
to trust someone to come into your home. I get that,
but you may you need to open yourself up to
that and trust your kids to help you find somebody
who's who will really take good care of you.
Speaker 1 (34:24):
Marty, you have a section in your book that's the
cleanse concept. Yes, and it ends with enjoy m hm.
So what could cleanse be that actually ends with enjoy?
Can you sure that?
Speaker 2 (34:40):
What does? So? The whole process we use the cleanse
concept of my company. C stands for concentrate in one
rumor area at a time. It's very easy to you
you're working in the garage, but you find something that
you go to the kitchen and then leave for the kitchen,
and then other things leave you around the house and
you really don't see what you accomplish. So really focus
on that one area at a time, and then things
(35:03):
that might need to go elsewhere, just you know, put
them near the door, and then when you're done with
that one area, then you can distribute them. L means
localized things, localized items to where they're actually used. For example,
one of my first clients, she was having issues with
getting her bills paid. She was paying them well, she
was paying them on time, but all along her baseboards
(35:26):
there was about six inches of piled up paid bills
and invoices lying there. So she was it was in
her bedroom and she would pay them, sit on the
edge of her bed, write the checks out, and watch DD.
She said, I guess I should do this in the
living room, And I said the living room. Honestly, valery
was its own issue.
Speaker 1 (35:45):
So I thought, I'm sure it was.
Speaker 2 (35:47):
Yeah, yeah, exactly. And so I thought, and I said,
you already have this system. Let's just figure out how
to kind of close the loop here. So keep doing
it in your bedroom. That's where you're used to doing it.
Keep doing it there, and we'll just get a cute
little file cabinet, you know, a little file rack file
that has the ones you need to pay, and then
folders for each different category that you're paying. And so
(36:10):
we set that up easy enough, and I checked in
with her about a month or so later, and she
was so happy because she's still she was still doing
it where she usually did it, and so, you know,
we didn't move it somewhere. And then the first e
and cleanse is no surprise. Eliminate, Eliminate things you don't
use anymore, and keep in mind that items are meant
(36:34):
to be used. They were created to be of use.
You know, I'm anthropomorphizing them a little bit, but think
of it that way. If they had feelings and they're
lying down, they've been stuck in your attic for ten years,
So like use me, I want to be used. So
in other words, if you're not using something or enjoying
it some way, find a way to let it be used.
Give it away, sell it. If it's severely compromised, bid
(36:57):
it farewell, and let it kind of just biodegrade in
the trash, hopefully a little wild degrade, but yes, eliminate A.
It stands for assigned categories. A lot of labels, that's
what A stands for. So you want to categorize things
you want to store in the trade, we say you
want to store like with like, because then you know
(37:17):
that that's the area where all the all the dental
stuff is. That's where all my faster paper clips, rubber bands,
things like that. That's where the office supplies are. So
when you're looking for something, you know where to get it.
And then when you're done with it, and this is key,
you put it away so you can find it the
next time. And that way you don't overbuy just because
(37:39):
you can't find something. We and this is the book.
Actually we once worked with the client she had I
mean honestly, when we'd finished going through her whole her
whole place, we had on the bathroom counter it was
covered with different tubes and whatever of preparation h at
least a third of which it works fired where she
(38:00):
can't buy more. She didn't know where it was. So
that's an extreme example. But so that's a And then
N is note which items need specially handling, like hazardous waste, shredding,
shred anything with I would shread anything with any anybody's
social security number, whether they're still here or not. Just
(38:21):
tread anything with a social security number, among other things.
And then S is learn these news message methods and
use this so you can sustain your new organization and
your new clean and clutter home. And then the e
as you said, is enjoy.
Speaker 1 (38:39):
Clinton because now your life is all organized and it's
all cleaned up.
Speaker 2 (38:43):
Right. Yeah, and you know what, it'll get a little
messy and that, but the thing is now you know
what to do. Like believe me, I can I clutter
up my coffee table in other areas and it gets
the point where it's like that's just too much visual
static and so then I just use my own methods
and it's for good.
Speaker 1 (38:58):
Yes, Well, as I said, we're going through this at
our house, and you're exactly right. We went through things
in our bathroom, my plastic containers underneath my sink, and
I was appalled at the duplicates of things that I
had that I had bought new because I didn't know
I had them already there. So that's a good hint
for anybody. You don't have to be older to do that.
(39:21):
We all should be looking at what we've got underneath
our cabinets.
Speaker 2 (39:24):
Oh absolutely. And also don't ever be ashamed. You know it,
things pile up and lie arell everybody, every single person's
life these days is just maxed out, it is, So
don't beat yourself up, you know, and work in small increments.
(39:44):
Work and pick an increment of time or of space
for example, use it just an hour on a Saturday,
put in the calendar. Even tell a friend you're going
to do it, so that you kind of and that
you're going to call them or text them after you
just so you have a little accountability built in and
before you start turn on some really fun music that
(40:07):
you love that makes you move, Have a little yummy
something standing by, because you want to train your brain
to think if this as it's fun, like you like
you feel good doing it, because after you're done after
an hour, you're going to see what you've accomplished in
that hour and you're going to get that dopamine hit
of accomplishment. So you build all this in. But the
thing is you do it for an hour in one
(40:28):
place and then you're done. Your session's done. So schedule
that next hour and you keep doing an hour every weekend.
You're going to be amaze what you've got done in
a month or six weeks. It's incredible. Another way to
do it, though, is to pick an incrementive space. So
for example, pick a drawer, pick a cabinet, pick you know,
five feet of your closet wrong and mark it off
(40:50):
and so when you're done with that space, your session's done.
So and it's same thing though, play that music, have
make it fun for yourself, something you'll learn to look
forward to.
Speaker 1 (41:03):
And I, for one, have a very short attention span
and me both you're talking this big of a section
in my closet right and you're an hour is way
too long for me and I can't handle that.
Speaker 2 (41:17):
LONGHI twenty minutes, do half an hour. Whatever works for you.
People too often think they have to do it the
whole day. No, you don't. You don't have to.
Speaker 1 (41:26):
One of the things I want to point out, Marty,
is about your book is all the charts and checklists
that you have which are really helpful for people. Here,
for example, as a downsizing checklist, several pages that people
can use and copy, and there are several of those.
I just want people to know that. And also you
have some little tips that are called inside scoop, So yeah,
(41:48):
tell us about what you want people to get out
of that.
Speaker 2 (41:52):
The inside scoops is kind of like from just from
all the work I've done and my amazing colleagues in
my company have done over the years, little tricks we've
picked up that can be really useful. And then I
also have moving moments in there, just these really amazing
stories of working with clients that I will never forget.
I mean, we've worked with so many clients, there are
(42:14):
just some that just nestle inside your heart that are
just if I think of something now, a get more goosebumps.
Oh my goodness. And that you know, in terms of
the checklists and things like this, they are in the books.
They can scribble in the book. Also at the end
of the book, I give a long url, a long
(42:34):
link where you can actually also go find PDFs of
those checklists online. You can download them. Oh good, oh
you know, but but scribble away in the book that
don't worry about keeping how to move your mom and
still be on speaking terms. Pretty use it. It's meant
to be used.
Speaker 1 (42:52):
Yes, and at some point she won't be there anymore,
and that'll be anyway. That's good. It's good to use
it during that process, right. Yeah, have stories. Give us
your favorite or a favorite one that comes to mind
before and after story of how your work really impacted
a family.
Speaker 2 (43:12):
You know, there's so many. The one that really just
left to mind it was a hoarding situation, and we
got the call from the daughter and she had managed
and her mother was a widow, and she had managed.
Her mother had six storage units in addition to her home.
The daughter had got her down from eighteen storage units
(43:34):
to six, and the mother still didn't want to bring
in outside professionals. But her daughter had persuaded her to
do a consultation with me and to let me in
the car port, so maybe she'd let us work in
the carport. And the daughter also mentioned two cars that
imparked on the street forever and how they had so
(43:55):
many things in them. So I remember meeting with her
and her mother and just talking things through. And one
of the key things with hoarding situations is people. The
people who live in these situations and have built them,
they you know, by and large, know what's going on
(44:17):
and are They've been judged, They've had people fight with them,
and there's a reason why they have every single thing,
whatever that may be, and why they don't want want
to let it go. So a big part of what
you have to do when you're working with them is
just to build trust and let them know you're not
judging them at all, and that you're not going to
toss anything out or tell them what to toss out
(44:39):
or anything. You realize that they are they are people
with feelings, and they really have strong feelings about their stuff.
So to give you an idea of kind of this
how her mother's brain worked. All of our brains are
so different, and there is something officially called hoarding disorder,
a psychiatric disorder, and it has to do with executive
(45:01):
function in the brain, how people organize their thoughts and
decisions and things. And it's just built differently. That's how
I explained it to people. It's just built differently. Like
for me, my brain's built differently because i'm you know,
never trust my sense of direction. Ever, don't ever trust
it because that part of my brain isn't built very well.
It's not very dirty. So that's the thing with people
(45:23):
in a horning situation. And so when I met with
this daughter and mom, we were looking through the car port.
I could tell the mom was feeling okay about me,
and then I did want to check in about these
cars on the street. The tires were flat. You could tell,
you know that weird sheen the car the chassis gets
after it's been out way too long, just sitting there.
(45:44):
And I could see that there was a lot of
magazines and newspapers and everything like that in there. And
so as I'm approaching the cars, I said, oh, I
see that there's some stuff in the cars here. Do
you want us to kind of work with you on
that too? She said, Oh, there's nothing in there. We
have to realize that again in the trade. In the trade,
we call it clutter blindness, where people can't even perceive
they really can't see it. And so I said to
(46:05):
her and said, well, I see a few magazines in here.
Do you do you want us to deal with that?
She's like, well, yeah, I guess you can. So this
is how we began with her. Now, thankfully she trusted
us with the cardboard, got through the carboard. She led
us in the house to start working in the house.
And let me tell you, this was it's a one
to five hoarding scale. This was a five plus. The
(46:26):
electricity was jewelry rig. The plumbing didn't work going up
and down the stairs. They moved and there was what
you've seen on TV and in photos, the hoarder's nest
where they sleep and eat and do everything. I remember
turning to my project manager and saying, where do you
think she goes to the bathroom? He said, oh, I
hadn't thought of that. So this is how bad it was,
(46:47):
and how Raquale's La Trinth, the mom was. You know,
she really didn't want anybody in. Well. By the end
of the and we worked for months with her, and
by the time toward the end, she didn't even feel
like she needed to be there. She trusted us so
much to make respectful decisions on her behalf. And a
(47:08):
month or two after we'd finished, I got this beautiful
email from the daughter saying, you've transformed the life of
our whole family because we got I got my mom back,
and my kids got the grandmother back, and she's so
much happier and freer. And when you get to transform
(47:31):
a family's life to the point where they actually expressed
that to you, it's just remarkable. One of my project
managers just got to text the other like a month
a few weeks ago from someone she'd work with a
year ago who had built a hoarding situation, and oh,
the text was amazing. She said, one year ago, you
saved my life. Oh my, And then she went on
(47:54):
and it was just you know something like, you know,
all I have to give is is to say thank you,
and so I thank you a thousand times. It was
so moving when you can do that for someone talking
about going home at the end of the day and
feeling like, Okay, that was a good day.
Speaker 1 (48:15):
Yes, yes, absolutely, that is lovely. That's lovely. And to
tell us, what's next for you? What do you hope
to do with your business and your life? You're starting
your alliance. That's is that what you're calling it?
Speaker 2 (48:32):
A wise alliance? And you know, hys alliance was born
because mind you, we have to go back a few years.
When I first thought of it, I was thinking, people
don't know senior move managers exist and this is so frustrating.
How do we how do we let them know? And
then I was thinking about all the other services that
are out there, patient advocates, the different kinds of attorneys,
(48:56):
probate versus elder abuse, financial advisors who specialize in working
with people in later life situations, all geriation care managers
who are also called aging life care specialists. No one
knows these exist, and so that's why age That's how
age Wise Alliance was born. And now you know, because
later life doesn't come with instructions, that's what age Wise
(49:20):
Alliance is there for. For all it provides for older
adults in their families a personalized guide, the right professionals
and a private family forum where they can all make
decisions together.
Speaker 1 (49:33):
That's nice.
Speaker 2 (49:34):
Now it's in beta testing phase. I mean, if you're interested,
you can contact me at info at Clearhome Solutions dot
com and I'll get back in touch with you. But
we're getting there now. In terms of writing books, I'm
realizing I need kind of need to write a companion
guide to how to move your parents and still be
on speaking terms. I haven't do it from the parents
(49:55):
point of view. Now, you know, how do you let
your kids help you? I haven't. I don't have a yet,
but I'm working on the outlines, so we'll get there.
And then after that, I want to write a book
about solo aging, like solo swagger, you know, aging the
way you want to, like taking on later life rather
than thinking of as a time to dread. Oh my goodness,
I don't know about you, Valerie. I wouldn't want to
(50:18):
be younger for anything. Every year brings more wisdom and
more more of a sense of wonder about the world.
It's amazing, right, it's and the level of confidence just
keeps growing. It's great, yes.
Speaker 1 (50:32):
Yes, And I think what's exciting is that we get
to live older now. No, we're not old, we're not elderly,
we're not seniors. And there are so many opportunities available
for older people because there are so many of us
first of all, and because of Internet and AI, we
can work from a cruise ship. We can go across
(50:54):
the world and still work and do something. We can
write books, we can do start new businesses. I started this,
you know, just a couple of years ago at mine.
So yes, there's great opportunities and I think that that's
really important for everyone to recognize, and that in itself
is something that you and I need to bring to
the world, is to be aware, open your eyes, and
(51:14):
to be aware of what we have as resources here
in our older adults, and to make sure that we
use them also.
Speaker 2 (51:21):
So much we can take on you know, we get
to live lives of courage. It's just it's wonderful.
Speaker 1 (51:29):
Well, we'll have to do some things together. I would
love that, Valerie, with our always Ageless brand that we're
just building as well. Bertie, it's been a delight having you.
As I said, I might have been one of your
first book purchasers. I don't know, but I certainly bought
it a few months ago, so I was there at
that time. I'm so glad to have you here. Thank
(51:52):
you for being on our show on Always Age Us
and sharing your stories with us. I know that I'll
be seeing you again in some other places, and I
know that our viewers and our listeners are so grateful
for your insights that you brought today. So tell everyone,
and we're going to put it on the bottom of
the screen, but tell everyone how they can find you
and how's the best way to reach you if they'd
(52:12):
like to take advantage of your services.
Speaker 2 (52:15):
You are so wonderful. First of all, thank you so
much for this honor and this amazing opportunity to not
only share ideas with your listeners, but also just get
to talk to you. Valerie. You're amazing. So if you'd
like to contact me, you can certainly go to my
web our website, Clearhome Solutions dot com. You can also
check out Agwysalliance dot com and look at that glossary professions.
(52:37):
And if you're in southern California, there are a bunch
of professionals who are already a part of our circle
of professionals, so you can get to know them. Obviously,
there's the book how to move your parents and still
be on speaking terms, and so you can contact us
through the website. There are contact forms there. You can
give us a call. The numbers there and so yeah,
(52:58):
that's the best way to get in touch with me.
And of course there's all kinds of links and information
too that I know. Thank you so much, Valerie, that
you'll have on your website.
Speaker 1 (53:07):
And we'll allow our listeners and viewers to find you
will help them. Also, thank you Marty very very much
for being on Always Ageless and we look forward to
seeing you in other places. Thank you, bybye, Thank you,
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